Why 90% of Companies Die—But This One Survived 100 Years | Jonathan Kaufman Iger, Founder of Sage

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on the longevity of Sage, a commercial real estate firm that has thrived for over a century amidst the statistic that 90% of companies fail by their tenth year. Key points highlight the importance of visionary leadership, understanding macroeconomic trends, and adapting to changing market conditions as critical factors that have contributed to Sage's enduring success.

Key takeaways

• 90% of companies croak by year 10; Sage's 101 years prove evolution beats mere survival.
• Visionary leadership is the secret sauce; skating to where the puck will be is a risky business mantra.
• Generational wealth thrives in Asia, while the U.S. is obsessed with quick exits—what's our long game?
• Adapt, don't cling: Sage's shifts from residential to office space echo the need for flexibility in real estate.
• Real estate isn't just an asset class; it's a mirror reflecting macroeconomic trends and societal shifts.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Daniel (Host) · 13 min speaking
• Jonathan Kaufman Iger (Guest) · 20 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Sage, William Calfman, Federal Housing Authority

Notable quotes from "Why 90% of Companies Die—But This One Survived 100 Years | Jonathan Kaufman Iger, Founder of Sage"

• Interested to hear about the commercial side of what's been happening in New York, but also the fact that Sage has been around for over a hundred or has been around for a…

  about Sage · at 1:23

• Wow. Okay. Yeah, we're celebrating our centennial. technically 101 years. company was founded by my great-grandfather William Calfman in 1924.

  about William Calfman · at 2:13

• No, I that's a fascinating story. the fact that you got to spend time with him and learn from him. I mean I was just talking to someone today about Birkshshire Hathway like you…

  about Berkshire Hathaway · at 11:03

• Hospitality space not in anything commercial but more residential side and I find I like to visit other places for example like the Aman properties is you know Amaniri in Utah…

  about Aman · at 19:28

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• William Calfman — Person · Referenced founder / family patriarch · 1 mention · first at 2:21
  Cited as the guest’s great-grandfather who founded the family real estate business and exemplified long-term, macro-driven leadership.
• Ryan Sirant — Person · Referenced prior guest / comparator · 2 mentions
  Mentioned as a previous podcast guest who discussed NYC real estate from the residential side, setting up contrast with this episode’s commercial focus.
  Happening when it comes to commercial real estate in New York because we had maybe a year ago we had Ryan Sirhan on actually to talk about his experience in New York City real…

Companies & orgs

• Sage — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at 0:04
  Primary company discussed in the episode, celebrating its centennial and discussing its longevity in commercial real estate.
• Federal Housing Authority — Company · Strategy · 1 mention · first at 3:00
  Mentioned in the context of its role in Sage's early residential development strategies.
  Business. so whether that's in the 1930s and the Federal Housing Authority being created and having FHA and we were already developing residential but really leaning into single lot family homes in the tri-state region and.
• Aman — Company · Case study · 2 mentions
  Referenced as an example of exceptional hospitality experience that influences business strategies.
• Berkshire Hathaway — Company · Referenced expert · 2 mentions
  Mentioned as an example of a long-standing company with generational wisdom.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Most companies I think die. It's like 90% die at the 10year mark. We're celebrating our centennial technically 101 years. I think the first part to longevity is is leadership and and vision. What William was so successful in doing within the field of commercial real estate was really seeing what was going on on a macro level, whether societal, macroeconomic, and really understand how that would have an impact on the real estate business. Like a company to be around for a hundred years has to mean that they're doing something right. Wayne Gretzky, you know, saying to, you know, skate to where the puck's going to be and not not not where the puck is. And I think that's a large portion of of our success against companies who who haven't been around more than 10 years, let alone a 100.

0:59 So, Jonathan, a few things that have really been fascinating about uh your company and about everything that's been happening when it comes to commercial real estate in New York because we had maybe a year ago uh we had Ryan Sirhan on actually to talk about his experience in New York City real estate from the uh residential side. So, I'm really interested to hear about the commercial side of what's been happening in New York, but also the fact that Sage has been around for over a hundred or has been around for a hundred years. Like, a company to be around for a hundred years has to mean that they're doing something right. I I don't know what the stats are now, but it's like most companies I think die. It's like 90% die at the 10year mark. They never they will never make it that long. So for you, what has kept Sage around this this for the hundred years?

1:56 It's a great question, Daniel. Um, I didn't know that stat. Wow. Well, what percentage normally after 10 years? I think it's like n again, don't quote me, but I believe the last time I I heard it was like 90% of companies die before 10 years.

2:13 Wow. Okay. Yeah, we're celebrating our centennial. technically 101 years. Uh company was founded by my great-grandfather William Calfman in in 1924. I think the first part to longevity is is leadership and and vision. Um, what William was so successful in doing within the field of commercial real estate was really seeing what was going on on a macro level, whether societal, macroeconomic, and really understand how that would have an impact on the the real estate business. Um, so whether that's in the 1930s and uh the Federal Housing Authority being created and having FHA and we were already developing residential but really leaning into single lot family homes um in the tri-state region and taking advantage of FHA loans. Post World War II, when his two sons joined the business, one of the things he saw was the advent of the GI Bill and he believed that the GI Bill was going to create the world's most educated

3:31 workforce that we've ever seen. And that's exactly what happened. And how as a real estate owner, investor, developer, can he take advantage of that within the field? Those people are going to need a place to work. Um, so it wasn't really until post World War II, late 1940s, we become more centered around office investment and by then the early 1950s groundup office development in in New York City. Um, and so I think our our longevity first and foremost um against so many other companies is it's not having the initial conviction. The initial conviction can be hey I think now is the time to go go into real estate or invest in this asset class right but it's understanding that um you know you may be invested in real estate as an asset class but moving between asset classes within real estate depending on what's going on on a macroeconomic on a societal level. um and his two sons were were very similar

4:40 in seeing what was going on and uh we expanded internationally at the right time and landed throughout the UK in in the 1990s. Um we sold off certain asset classes like land at the right time. Um, so I think right there's there's kind of that uh um Wayne Gretzky, you know, saying to you know, skate to where the puck's going to be and not not where the puck is. Um, and I think that's a large portion of of our success against companies who who I haven't been around more than 10 years, let alone 100.

5:15 Skate to where the puck's going to be. I like that. You know, it's fascinating and we because we've gotten to talk to many different people. I find that in Asia specifically, they build businesses to pass down through many generations. They're not necessarily looking at the exit. Maybe if it's a startup in tech, that's different. But most businesses there are generational. In the US, it's almost like the opposite. Like people are building businesses to exit at some point early on. I don't know if the their kids ever even think about or they don't think about handing it down through generations.

5:52 tell walk me through how that's been and the success of being able because I think this is something that that we could do differently in the US is we could build businesses that will be multigenerational. I just don't think it's really been so been something that we've really focused on. So, how's that been for you and your family?

6:13 I agree. I think today we're not focused on it. I think right uh you know our our culture in America is you know very much the entre entrepreneurial startup culture I think were inundated on Instagram and Tik Tok and Fast Company and Inc. Right. And the people who are on the cover of those magazines who are posting are very much about building businesses and being entrepreneurial. Um but so much of it is about the exit, the IPO, um the the the VC world that that's been created. I think if you probably if we look at at at America's culture though um leading up to the last 20 years or so and maybe there was a a focus on just making money finance 80s and 90s kind of culture but I think if you really look back on a c on a on a country that has been built up by immigrants I think historically that that is the culture culture that that that we had. And I don't know enough if if we've entirely

7:25 lost it, but um you my my family um you know uh came through through Ellis Island in in the 19s um and and and built businesses, one of them being you know, William Calfan organization Sage. Um, and I think very much it was important to William when his two sons after serving in World War II came back that, you know, very quickly that they entered the business and it was very important to him as it's been explained to me, you know, to really run the business together. Um, but I agree. I think thinking about it, we've we've we've lost something to to that extent. I still think it's it's there very much. Um, but maybe we need a little bit more of it.

8:13 I automatically think of like Walmart, like the Walton's, you know. Um, is there a certain level of pressure that you have to go through knowing it's gotten to where it is 100 years, so obviously it needs to continue for another 100 plus years. Does that does that bring apart a certain pressure uh uh to you?

8:39 Yeah. I don't I don't know if I've set the goal to make sure that there's a foundation for another hundred years. Um the the pressure is has existed. It's probably exacerbated uh more uh recently obviously with with COVID and hybrid work and how that's impacted commercial real estate and that's what our focus has been um over the last 30 plus years of our 101year company. Um, when I joined the business in 2010, my grandfather asked me to join. Um, it took me about a month to to accept the offer, give or take. Um, and and part of that hesitancy was um that at that time the company was 85 years old. Um and and I did understand both the honor of of being asked to come in but but the pressure associated where it really became apparent um was when my grandfather got sick. He was still running the company um when I came and had the amazing privilege to work and really learned from him for for a

9:50 number of years. Um it's when he got sick and I spent a tremendous amount of time in in the hospital with him. Um and we would talk about leases that were executing right that could be 10 15 years out. Um and both of us not saying it but being conscious that he's not going to be here you know probably for the necessarily the first five years of the lease let alone the entire uh tenure of of the lease. And I think that's when I really started to understand although I always knew I was making a lifelong commitment when coming to work for a family company because like we just talked about there there is no ultimate exit for us, right? The the idea is for other family members um and next generation to be involved at at some level. Um, I think I see it less as obviously it is pressure. Um, and pressure can be a good thing. Um, but I think viewing it more as a responsibility. Um, and and as an

10:53 honor, um, are probably the way that I think about it more. Um, then you start to throw in co and some other things and the pressure builds a little bit.

11:03 No, I that's a fascinating story. the fact that you got to spend time with him and learn from him. I mean I was just talking to someone today about Birkshshire Hathway like you know he's been doing he's like 90 something years old man the the amount of wisdom that we get which I think is almost sad right like we we didn't have a lot of recordings like now obviously maybe in 50 years somebody could watch this interview and and then they could learn about you but like you know 50 years ago there wasn't a lot of recordings obviously even 20 15 20 years ago so there's so much knowledge and wisdom that's been lost um that I would like to I'd like to learn. So, let's dig in about the New York uh about how the the market is on this office commercial side. I think some might some people might say, "Is it dead? Will it ever return?" Uh do you think they've gotten this completely wrong?

11:59 Yes. Um I think that was a I wouldn't call it a legitimate question back in 2021, 2022. Um I don't think anyone was sitting there saying no one's going to work in an office building again, right? Um what this really boils down to at the heart of it is this is economics 101. This is supply and demand, right? And so if you're talking about a New York office market, uh depending on on how you're defining office with as a category, you know, it's a 400 to 500 million square foot market. Um, so I think when people were writing those headlines for articles and on Squawkbox and everywhere else, no one was actually quantifying saying, "Hey, I think offices aren't going to exist anymore, right?" Um, but from a supply demand, if you have a 500 million square foot market and the demand is for 400 million square feet, right? um that will create over time a 20% vacancy and markets have shown that um you know 20%

13:15 vacancy will have a significant impact on rental rates and concession packages thereby net effective rents and and overall values uh for a property historically the New York City and specifically Manhattan market um has averaged a little over 10% vacancy but that's also including sublet vacancy uh as as well. Um so I think those were really alarmist headlines. Um you know early on the recovery we saw true flight to quality brand new groundup development um not simply skating by or doing okay. They were raising their rents 20 30 40%.

14:05 Right? So that that's a very strong market. Wow. Um and in our business, what we've typically seen is a trickle down effect, right? Where the market starts to rebound with the best product and then you get to like this class A product and A minus and B+. And that's what we're we're really seeing. Um, so I think over the next couple years as square footage does come off for resi conversions, um, we see other alternate uses, um, for some of the older office stock. And what people forget is New York City office stock is has the oldest average age of any comparable gateway city, right? um compare us to London, even compare us to Paris, particularly compare us to any gateway Asian city, Tokyo, Shanghai. Um a lot of this product needs to be recycled. Um and that's what we're seeing. And as as that has been occurring, will continue to occur, we're seeing at specific asset classes within commercial real estate, not just

15:19 stabilization, but actually an increase in both gross and net effective rats. Well, that's exciting. I mean, like you're saying, New York is like New every anyone in the world knows New York. Like if you go anywhere that I've been, I've been every continent and I mention New York City. Everybody knows New York City, which I think is always a good thing. And every time I go, it seems very busy. So people are still moving there. They're going there. Um I'm curious about amenities.

15:48 Mhm. I I think we don't always think of, you know, commercial spaces having amenities, but I believe that you said or you've talked around hospitality, which is the real secret to winning in the future of office space.

16:06 Yeah, it's um look, a hospitality centric approach is is part of Sage's DNA. Um my my great uncle who was past president of Sage in the late 1960s traveled uh through Europe. I think it was the first time he had been back since since being over there for World War II. And when he came back um he introduced at the heart of heart of what he had experienced which was now known as the European style concier system within our commercial properties. Now more than ever, and I think too often people are focused on the amenities, the physical amenities in what's being provided, right? We've had this amenities arms race, which we're starting to see peter out. Doesn't mean amenities aren't petering out, but this this crazy amenities arms race of let's install golf simulators and race car simulators and nap pod rooms and cold plunge tanks. Um, like to me that's most of that's crazy. Um, and even for those

17:18 who take it a step further in a in a good way, right? They think about, hey, let's let's make sure we know how to greet our our our tenants when they come into the building. Um, to us, that's still not taking it as as far as it needs to be. Um and so for us rather than talk about amenities um and even services to a certain what what we focus on is is experience right and across our property it becomes known as as the sage experience. What is it what does it feel like to be in a sage property, right? What's the overall experience to be in a sage in a sage property? And amenities play a key part of that. But I've been saying we've been building out amenitized spaces in commercial office buildings since 2013.

18:08 One of the first companies to really do it um in in New York City. we were definitely one of the first to to do it with you know uh private outdoor space for for the entire tenency and even early on then um I remember you know effectively quoting field of dreams you know and telling people that it's not field of dreams this is not if you build it they will come you need to build it and you need to program it and that's really at the heart of of what we do I think that's at the heart of different differentiating your product. And I think that is very much the future of commercial real estate. You can only have so much square footage of brand new development. And what happens to brand new development over time after 10, 15, 20 years? And again, we've been around for 100. A lot of the buildings we've owned, we developed. We've owned them for 60 plus years. I would very much like and expect for us to own and and

19:05 manage them for another 60 years. Um, so we think longer term, you know, further out and and in order to be successful there, you have to provide a cohesive experience uh for your customer. Um, and that's really what what we focus on.

19:24 I can appreciate that. I'm also in the hospitality space not in not in anything commercial but uh more residential side and I find I like to visit other places for example like the Aman properties is you know Amaniri in Utah it's like one of the best experiences I've ever had and I like to learn and then take that back to the place that we have. Um but I'm I'm always really big on that piece. It's not like you're saying for me it's always not the amenities per se like I've been to a million spas and such. It's how warm do they make me feel? The personal level experience. It's like the smallest of details that I remember. I don't really remember a lot of things. I don't even know if I remember the food, but like the am when I went to Amaniri, I remember the chef was like, "Look, forget the menu. I'll make you anything you want." And that that really stood out to me. I don't even remember if the

20:20 food was good. I just remember that. But when you travel around, I imagine you must do the same thing. Do you as you travel and and you have these experiences, are you taking pieces like your great uncle or or actually seeing things kind of from the outside like I don't like this or I like this?

20:39 Yeah. Much to the chagrin of my now wife um who years passed now I have kids. It looks a little bit different. The camera roll is all all of them. Um, but before that, when we would travel, just the two of us, and you'd look at our photo roll, um, it could be a close-up shot of some corner retail window, not even the actual retail itself, but like the window. And that was interesting in how they did that. Um, constantly writing down notes. Um, used to carry around a little notepad and, um, you walk into my room late at night or in the hotel room, it's crumpled up. I've now transferred to the computer. I've slacked it to say, "Hey, let's let let's explore this idea." I think for everybody, whether you're in a CEO position or or just starting out in a like having the world in inform you, um, and being able to translate experiences services um offerings um, in other industries and bring it to

21:46 your own. And I think probably that's unbelievably important within any hospitalitydriven field in which office is is is now one of those. Um I was down in Austin, Texas uh years ago. Um and uh crazy storms and I remember leaving the lobby of the of the hotel we were staying at. It wasn't a five-star hotel and they had put out a number of umbrellas that you could grab right to use. Grotus free. Um the thought was great. The execution was terrible because within 20 ft of leaving the hotel, the winds were so strong. It was those flimsy $5 pretty crappy umbrellas. The thing literally ripped off.

22:35 Right. My wife and I got completely soaked. Ran back to 20 ft. It was really like a monsoon. Um, but I was like, I love this idea. It just needs to be executed on better. and within a couple months and we still have the program running today that anytime it looks like it's going to rain or that it has started to rain um we have Sage branded umbrellas um that are super strength like you know you could use this in a hurricane type umbrella um that tenants can and our Sage members can can grab as they come come in and out of the building that day. Um, I think overall, um, whether it's reading through a magazine, a book, a conversation, what we strive to do, and and and you said it so well, Daniel, there's a uh there's a pop a popular quote, I think it's typically attributed to Danny Meyer, but it was actually said by his partner at the original Union Square um cafe, I'm sorry, Grand Mercy Tavern. uh

23:43 Tom Kicio and and he's famous for saying people come to the restaurant for the food, they come back for the experience, particularly in New York, but in any city, you have the option to eat at 400 500 great restaurants. Um you're typically not going back because you fell in love with that chicken dish. And you're you're not going back necessarily because the service was amazing. You're going back because you like the way the experience of eating, socializing, being in that restaurant made you feel. And and the way a good operator achieves that is you are constantly looking at every single touch point from the moment that customer walks in. And for really good operators before they walk in like the Aman um all the way through that experience and and you think about every touch point. What is it like to open up the door to enter the restaurant? What is it like to walk from the door to the matrae

24:53 station, right? Um, if they're going to ask to take your coats or umbrella, what is that experience like? Um, where's the placement of the bar? And if you have to wait to be seated, do you need to get through a pack of 30 people to wait at the bar until they come get you for the table? Most people don't think about all of these tiny little elements and each one is equally important because none of them make us want to come back, you know, uh to the restaurant, but one of those can make us not want to go back, right? You got to be batting a thousand when you have competition.

25:37 And and so that's got to be the approach. And so much of that is being informed of your experience day-to-day outside of an office building. Um so that you can elevate that experience inside an office building at every customer touch point. That reminds me, I went to Pers and Thomas Keller came around the corner and I' I've done events at his restaurant in in San Francisco. So, I went up to um I went up to the waitress and I said, "Hey, I really would like to meet him. He he was going really quickly, I think, because he didn't want people to stop him." I was like, "I really want to meet him because we've done events at his restaurant in San Francisco." So, she said, she came back in like 5 minutes. She's like, "Okay, come back into the kitchen." And so my wife went back in the kitchen and we got to spend time with him. We actually created a whole menu at at this business that we had because of of him. He let me

26:34 explain it to him. He let us take pictures. Like he actually spent a good like 10 15 minutes with us which I was shocked.

26:41 Right. Because I know he's just super busy. He was only there for this event that they were having.

26:46 Sure. And that really stood like you're saying that really stood out to me. I was like wow you know what you are totally right on that. It's really these moments, but I don't think a lot of people get it. I I think it's hard for people to understand or maybe it's also hard to execute, but I love I love what you said around the umbrellas. It's not just having the umbrella. It's having an umbrella though that it's not going to actually give you a bad experience. Um, but my final question is this, and I'm having a great time, by the way. I love the story.

27:16 Me, too. Drink it. If you can redesign the entire New York City skyline for the next 50 years, what would you do differently?

27:28 I'm I'm I'm hoping I can be like my great-grandfather or my grandfather and and his brother and and maybe just develop one or two buildings. But if I could reimag Manhattan skyline, um and this is completely apolitical. um our our zoning requirements which typically come from a good place, right? Um do not meet the needs of the future for our city. um one of the the great keys to unlocking um what I think can make New York and so many other cities even more vibrant, even more livable is not just allowing but also you know not saying let's get subsidies but supporting true mixeduse properties right ideally in So many ways you should be mixing an office building and a residential building, right? It's actually good for the environment. Think about in a residential building where the peak water usage is, right? It's before you go to work, right? It's after you come home from work in an office building. Think about

29:02 when peak office uh water usage is, right? It's 9 to5, you know, and you can design unbelievably more efficient properties, right? Because of the way that we work in an office building, the way we live in in a residential building, you layer in um hotels into that. Not every building can be residential, hotel, office, right? But you start to allow for a a much greater mix. Um you're going to see much more interesting buildings. You're going to see buildings that are much more efficient um across the board. Um you're going to find buildings that are much more enjoyable to be a part of. You're going to find actually the business models uh work much better. Right?

29:56 If I combine a residential building in New York City and an office building today and you're sharing those amenities, that is much more economical both for the office user, the resident, and the property owner um than it being split apart. And I'm not saying that you should live in the building you work in, right? But having the true mixeduse development in New York City um would transform the skyline. who would transform the city. Um, I'd love to see it. I've explored the idea with architects just conceptually before. Um, I think it's be a long we're a long ways away, but we'll get there eventually.

30:39 No, that's fascinating. I didn't even think about like what even is the business model of a office building besides just rent. But you have, it sounds like you can do other things, have a lot of things potentially if this is something that is allowed or allowed at the ability that you would need it to be. But if people want to get in touch with you, they want to find out more information about Sage obviously want to follow along 101. I mean that it's it's insane. When I saw this, I'm like, wait a minute. Is this is this correct or is this like a typo? But over 101 years, that's crazy. But how can they do so?

31:13 Yeah, our website sagery.com. Um, we're also on Instagram. Um, sageexperience and LinkedIn which is sagey as well.

31:25 Um, probably one of the oldest companies on link on Instagram. I imagine one of the oldest companies on social media at least in the US I would think. One of them.

31:35 Probably one of them. Yeah. Yeah. not the longest that we've been on Instagram, but definitely one of the oldest companies on Instagram for sure.

31:43 I think that's that's fascinating. That that is amazing. And obviously, you know, you're there to to continue the legacy. And I imagine the great thing about having, you know, generations and generations is they keep they keep the business up to up to the technology like social media, like all these things that maybe other generations wouldn't even think about. But Jonathan, this has been amazing. Congratulations, you know, on on hitting over a hundred years. I can't wait, you know, if you and I chat again in 50 years. If I'm still alive, I'll be really fascinating. But at least we can reference this interview 50 years prior.

32:19 But this has been great and thanks for joining us on Founders Story. Thanks, Daniel, for having me and allowing us to to share our centennial with you and your listeners and viewers.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Why 90% of Companies Die—But This One Survived 100 Years | Jonathan Kaufman Iger, Founder of Sage"?

Daniel (Host), Jonathan Kaufman Iger (Guest).

What is "Why 90% of Companies Die—But This One Survived 100 Years | Jonathan Kaufman Iger, Founder of Sage" about?

The discussion centers on the longevity of Sage, a commercial real estate firm that has thrived for over a century amidst the statistic that 90% of companies fail by their tenth year. Key points highlight the importance of visionary leadership, understanding macroeconomic trends, and adapting to changing market conditions as critical factors that have contributed to Sage's enduring success.

What is mentioned in this Founder's Story episode?

6 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Sage, William Calfman, Federal Housing Authority, Aman, Berkshire Hathaway, Ryan Sirant. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Why 90% of Companies Die—But This One Survived 100 Years | Jonathan Kaufman Iger, Founder of Sage"?

The episode runs 33 min; the transcript is about 5,063 words in 45 timestamped sections.

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