Transcript

At 77, Robert Redford goes back to his roots (2013 Interview) | Fresh Air

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· 43 min · 8,163 words · 104 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "At 77, Robert Redford goes back to his roots (2013 Interview) | Fresh Air", an episode of Fresh Air published September 19, 2025 (43 min, about 8,163 words). It mentions 21 people, works and ideas, including All is Lost, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, Sundance Film Festival, JC Chandor.

What this episode is about

In this interview, Robert Redford discusses his role in the film *All Is Lost*, where he portrays a lone sailor facing immense challenges at sea, showcasing his resilience and resourcefulness. At 77, Redford reflects on his illustrious career, highlighting both his acting achievements and directorial works.

Key takeaways

  • In an era of CGI, Redford proves less can be more—less dialogue, more authenticity.
  • A solo actor in a vast ocean: Redford’s performance reveals that isolation breeds introspection.
  • Forget the backstory—mystery adds depth, allowing viewers to navigate their interpretations of survival.
  • At 77, Redford’s physical commitment reminds us: age is just a number when passion fuels the fire.
  • Transforming a simple letter into a poignant monologue, Redford highlights that sometimes silence speaks volumes.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: All is Lost, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, JC Chandor
  2. – 10:00: JC Chandor, Wild Style (film)
  3. – 15:00: Khan Film Festival, Michael Feny Kalen
  4. – 25:00: Route 66, The Candidate, PACE Act, Perry Mason
  5. – 30:00: PACE Act, JC Chandor, Route 66, The Iceman Cometh
  6. – 35:00: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, PACE Act
  7. – 40:00: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, Billy Fredkin's Birthday Party, Dynamite Chicken
  8. – 43:23: Sundance Film Festival

Notable quotes from "At 77, Robert Redford goes back to his roots (2013 Interview) | Fresh Air"

  • This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, Robert Redford, is not only the star of the movie All is Lost, he's the only actor. He gives what New York Times film critic AO…
    about All is Lost · at
  • Redford's best known films include Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, The Way We Were, The Sting, All the President's Men, and Out of Africa. He directed several films.
    about The Candidate · at
  • In the beginning, I thought I needed to ask questions to the director, JC Chandor, but frankly, Terry, I was very drawn to what you did not know about this. I was very drawn to what was not.
    about JC Chandor · at
  • That because the other thing I enjoyed about this was how little there was in the prologue. I met with him. I liked his film Margin Call. That was the only other film he had…
    about Wild Style (film) · at
  • But anyway, that's a whole other story. But anyway, when the first and only time I saw it was at the Khan Film Festival.
    about Khan Film Festival · at
  • And I did the last Playhouse 90 that was ever done. And I just thought that was the best show when I was a kid. I thought that was the best show on television.
    about PACE Act · at
  • So, skipping ahead to 1969, you make Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid with Paul Newman, and this is the movie that makes you kind of iconic. had you did you already know how to ride horses?
    about Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid · at
  • We haven't gotten to. It's really been a pleasure to talk with you. good luck in award season. Good luck with this year's Sundance Film Festival. Thank you so much for coming back.
    about Sundance Film Festival · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • JC Chandor — Person · Referenced collaborator (director of the film being discussed) · 3 mentions · first at
    Director of 'All Is Lost'; discussed as shaping the film's minimalism (little dialogue, sparse script) and pushing Redford physically during production.
  • Michael Feny Kalen — Person · Referenced author/biographer · 1 mention · first at
    Author of a Redford biography referenced by Gross to introduce personal-history details (e.g., childhood polio).
    A couple of years ago there was a biography of you written by Michael Feny Kalen and I was reading that and I was really surprised to learn that as a child you had polio. I mean,.

Books & papers

  • All is Lost — Book · 3 mentions · first at
  • Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid — Book · 3 mentions · first at
  • The Candidate — Book · Mentioned film · 3 mentions · first at
    Part of Robert Redford's notable films
  • Ordinary People — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Candidate, The Way We Were, The Sting, All the President's Men, and Out of Africa. He directed several films including Ordinary People and Quiz Show.
  • The Company You Keep — Book · 1 mention · first at
    He directed and starred in The Horse Whisperer and the recent film The Company You Keep. His new film, All Is Lost, begins with his voice over reading a letter he's writing. We don't know who he's writing to. After the voice over,.
  • Wild Style (film) — Book · 1 mention · first at
  • The Sting — Book · Mentioned film · 1 mention · first at
    Part of Robert Redford's notable films
    Redford's best known films include Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, The Way We Were, The Sting, All the President's Men, and Out of Africa. He directed several films.
  • The Way We Were — Book · Mentioned film · 1 mention · first at
    Part of Robert Redford's notable films
    Redford's best known films include Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, The Way We Were, The Sting, All the President's Men, and Out of Africa. He directed several films.
  • All the President's Men — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Redford's best known films include Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, The Way We Were, The Sting, All the President's Men, and Out of Africa. He directed several films.
  • Out of Africa — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Redford's best known films include Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, The Way We Were, The Sting, All the President's Men, and Out of Africa. He directed several films.
  • PACE Act — Book · 4 mentions · first at
  • Route 66 — Book · 4 mentions · first at
    I wanted to play a clip from your early episodic TV years and was thinking well I'm a big fan of Route 66 have the box set yeah I love that show I loved it as a kid and I love it looking back at it as a kid thanks a hot people.
  • Perry Mason — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Maverick, Rescue 8, The Deputy, Playhouse 90, Perry Mason, Naked City, The Twilight Zone.
  • The Twilight Zone — Book · Mentioned series · 1 mention · first at
    Part of Robert Redford's early career
    You did a lot of episodic TV early in your career in the early 1960s.
  • The Iceman Cometh — Book · Mentioned play · 1 mention · first at
    Significant work in Robert Redford's career
    You did a lot of episodic TV early in your career in the early 1960s.
  • Billy Fredkin's Birthday Party — Book · 1 mention · first at
    The idea was that we would get some funding together and that we would buy up films that had been either poorly distributed like Billy Fredkin's Birthday Party or Dynamite Chicken,.
  • Dynamite Chicken — Book · 1 mention · first at
    The idea was that we would get some funding together and that we would buy up films that had been either poorly distributed like Billy Fredkin's Birthday Party or Dynamite Chicken,.

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, Robert Redford, is not only the star of the movie All is Lost, he's the only actor. He gives what New York Times film critic AO Scott describes as the performance of a lifetime. The New York Film Critic Circle voted him best actor of the year for All is Lost. Today, he was nominated for a Golden Globe. Redford plays a man alone on a small yacht in the Indian Ocean between Indonesia and Madagascar. We don't know his name, why he's there, or anything about his background, except what we can deduce by what we see. Early in the film, his yacht is rammed by a stray container that must have dropped off a container ship. It leaves a hole in the boat that begins a series of problems this man has to overcome if he is to survive. Something we do learn about him is he is resourceful and not overtaken by panic. This was a very physically demanding role for a 77year-old actor.

Redford's best known films include Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, The Way We Were, The Sting, All the President's Men, and Out of Africa. He directed several films including Ordinary People and Quiz Show. He directed and starred in The Horse Whisperer and the recent film The Company You Keep. His new film, All Is Lost, begins with his voice over reading a letter he's writing. We don't know who he's writing to. After the voice over, the action switches to eight days earlier. Before we talk with Redford about his new film and about his early life and career, let's begin with him reading that letter.

13th of July, 4:50 p.m. I'm sorry. I know that means little at this point, but I am I tried. I think you would all agree that I tried to be true, to be strong, to be kind, to love, to be right. But I wasn't. And I know you knew this in each of your ways. And I am sorry. All is lost here except for soul and body. That is what's left of them and a half day's ration.

Robert Redford, welcome back to Fresh Air. That's such a stirring opening for the beginning of the film. You read that letter as if it were a poem. Um, can you talk about that?

Well, I think I probably saw it that way. I probably felt it that way. There are some marvelous objectives in it. You know, I think everybody wants to be true and strong. And it's it's the right parts that this difficult. And I think that there's a kind of an arrow to the character around that when he says, um, and I tried to be right although I failed. I think you can maybe imagine that that's where he fell short of what his objectives were.

Yes. Well, we try to imagine when we watch the movie because it's not spelled out for us. Did you want to know your character's backstory like who he's talking to? You assume it's family. You don't really know anything about who he's writing to, um, what his life has been like, why he's out in this yacht in the middle of the Indian Ocean. Did you have to know this yourself? In the beginning, I thought I needed to ask questions to the director, JC Chandor, but frankly, Terry, I was very drawn to what you did not know about this. I I was very drawn to what was not said. There were challenges in there that were very attractive to me. Uh, one of them was that uh I saw the project because there was only a 30-page script, it was mostly sketches, uh, since there's no dialogue. I was attracted to the fact that there was no dialogue. I like the idea there were no special effects. It was a very low-budget film,

very independent in its spirit and and its budget. And because I I felt that it was more of a pure cinematic experience the way films used to be. Maybe even going back to silent films. High technology has has kind of entered the film business, maybe infested the film business. Um but going to what you're saying I I think yes I I did ask in the beginning is there something I should know about this and the director um evaded answering it and then I realized that this is what was intended and so I went with that. I I liked yes I could fill it in to a certain degree but not too much beyond.

So, the director said, um, referring to the reaction he expected you to have when first reading the script, he said, "Redford's either going to say, "Hell yes, this sounds amazing." Or he's going to say, "Why in the world would I do that? I have nothing to prove. Why would I put myself through that?" And you really do put yourself through a lot in the movie. I mean, you're being pelted by water through much of it. I mean, you're your yacht is flooded, so like you're you're you're waiting in water. I know you shot some of this in a tank and not in the ocean, but some of it was, I believe, shot in the ocean. So, you're out Yes.

out in the ocean under under the hot sun. You're in storms. I mean, it seems like it was a grueling shoot. Did you ask yourself before saying yes

how much you wanted to subject yourself to? No, I think that I must have assumed that because the other thing I enjoyed about this was how little there was in in the prologue. Uh, I met with him. I liked his film Margin Call. That was the only other film he had made. I liked that a lot. I liked the script that he had written for this because it was so exact. It was so detailoriented and it told me that there was a vision behind this film that was very secure and that meant that I could put myself in his hands. Uh so when we got together, well, what 10 minutes into it, I said, "Hey, let's just do it. Let's go. Let's do this." It just felt right. It was an instinctive thing and rather than all the fall or all that goes on these days before you do it, before somebody commits, you got agents, you got managers, you got financial people that are all busy analyzing the pluses and minuses of it. It it was stripped of all

that and and I loved it. I could step into a film and really kind of get back to my roots where I originally started as an actor in the theater in New York and the end of live television and that was the other attraction.

Give us a sense of some of the things that you had to endure like when you're in the storm in one of the storms and and you you're being rained on. What are you experiencing? How are you protecting?

Well, it was a real first of all it was a real storm because the Yes. As you said, a lot of it was on the open water, but when we had to get into the really tough stuff, went into a giant tank where they have these big wave machines, these big cylinders that can cork up the waves to six, seven feet that will swamp the boat or maybe turn it over. You had rain, violent rain machines. Then you had wind machines. And you had crew members with fire hoses hitting you with water, heavy streams of water. So when all those things are cooking at once, you really are in a storm. So I really did feel while I was doing this that I was actually in a storm and I had to feel like I needed to feel like I'm really in a storm. What am I going to do? How am I going to and it became very physical. Uh I also went into this I guess at my age wondering what can I still do? I always uh because I was in sports as a kid and you know was

athletic pretty much my life. I wanted to I always enjoyed doing my own stunts when I could and I thought, well, at this point in my life, what can I still do? I I'm not sure. So, it was in a a way a test. I I said, well, let's see what I can do, you know, and I'll do what I can. And then you push yourself and your your ego kicks into gear and you say, "Well, maybe I should really let me do this." And of course, when I did that, JC's ego kicked in. He said, "Yeah, let's push the guy." So, we were pushing each other, I guess.

No, I I read that during some of the filming because of of all the water that was attacking you, um, you got an ear infection and I think temporarily lost hearing, 60% of your hearing in one ear. Is that accurate?

Yeah. Yeah, it is. Is it temporary? Uh, I wish it was. Oh, it it's sort of permanent. So, I hate to put it this way, but if you had it to do over again, would you have saved your hearing and said no to the film?

No. No. The hearing thing isn't that bad. And And I I would have done what I did. I I would have done it all over again. I would I would be happy to do it again. I may not be able to, but I would be happy to try.

You know, watching the movie, I thought I would never be the person in this yacht in the middle of the Indian Ocean alone. Well, I wouldn't either, Terry.

Well, no. I thought maybe you would be. I I thought No, no, no, no. As a matter of fact, I said, "This is really good because this tells me this is something I never want to do."

I already knew that. No, that's up for somebody else, you know. But, uh, but you know, there was another thing about this. Uh, I guess this might be a an ego thing as an actor, but one of the things that was challenging was to you you had to be completely there as the actor and because there was no filters. There were there were no barriers created by voiceovers that there was the chance for the audience to come close to you as you were going through this. You had to be real in what you were going through. You had to be absolutely there. And that's also an attractive thing as an actor to to be completely um occupied with your character on all levels emotionally, psychologically um including things like fear and uh what you don't understand, you know, all those things you have to be there with it. Well, this gave the audience a chance to come closer to the character.

So if it was going to work then the audience could feel at a certain point like they were taking this journey with you.

You know in the credits roll it says cast Robert Redford and that's it. That's you are the cast. And then after that there's this like long scroll of, you know, camera people and effects people and the people who dealt with the fishes and the people on the ships. And I'm thinking like there's this like huge group of people walking working on the film and you're like the only person ever on camera. That must have been

when we when I saw that, you know, I've only seen the film once. Um I'm surprised you saw and I don't you sometimes not even see your films.

Sometimes. Yes. Sometimes I've not seen Yeah. Some films I've not seen. Yeah. But anyway,

that's a whole other story. But anyway, when the first and only time I saw it was at the Khan Film Festival.

And so when the when the film because you know they booth films there. Yes. And so when the when the lights came down, I'm thinking, geez, you know, this could go either way. And I'm sitting here in a tux. How embarrassing to be in a tuxedo and be booed, you know? So I'm sitting there thinking, God, I wonder how this is going to go. So then I saw on the screen cast member just me alone. I thought, "Oh my, am I really I'm really in trouble now if they do this thing because they're going to be booing me, you know." Anyway, it went the other way. H happily it went so much the other way. That in itself was a shock, a pleasant one.

You know, a couple of years ago there was a biography of you written by Michael Feny Kalen and I I was reading that and I was really surprised to learn that as a child you had polio. I mean, you're such a physical person. You're you you're so athletic and so physically fit. And now, even at the age of 77, you're so physically fit. You needed to be in order to do all was lost. And the thought of you um being paralyzed for a while as a child was shocking to me.

Um Yeah, it was to me, too. Sure. Um I It wasn't a severe case. I think we should, you know, want to make sure we get this straight. It wasn't an iron lung case. Um, it was a case of mild polio, but it was severe enough to put me in bed for two weeks. And because in those days, polio before the salt vaccine was discovered, what hung over your childhood was always the fear of polio because all you saw were people in our lungs. Um, so yeah, when I got it, it was because of an extreme exertion in in in the ocean in in in the bright sunlight in the ocean and uh it was alarming, but it wasn't serious enough to to to go much further.

Were you paralyzed at all? No, no, I was down. I was I I couldn't move very well, but I was not paralyzed. So, um, you said that you got the polio because of, um, what, uh, overexerting yourself at sea.

Yeah. Or I was just with another kid. Another kid and I were out on the ocean and we had these little things. They were called pedalos and there were these little wooden kind of crates where they would float, but you would have the these pedals inside and you would pedal and it would move the it would move the thing, but they were wide open. So, I got carried away with this guy and we were competing and and going as fast as we could and I I got carried away and went way too far out, way too far, just pedalling my brains out. And I got so far out there, I thought, Jesus, where where am I? Well, there's the mainland is way way back there. So, we turned around, came back in, but I had kind of done myself in exhaustion, heat, sun, stroke everything.

So, what message did you take away from that? like I should never overexert myself again or

that I would never get into a pedal again. I don't think I don't think I went beyond that because I love the ocean. I love surfing and I love well as a kid I love to surf.

And tell me if I'm getting too personal here. So soon after you had the polio, your mother gave birth to twins who died shortly after birth. I'm just thinking that's a lot of trauma at one time.

Yeah. I I I guess it depends on how you're raised and and what your what your genealogy is. You know, uh family, you come from maybe a dark more of a dark family. Uh immigrated from Ireland and Scotland and didn't talk much, didn't complain. You don't complain much. You don't ask for anything. Uh you bear the brunt of whatever comes your way and you do it with grace. So when my mom had uh twin girls that died, uh there was no talk about it. And I that goes all the way back to when I was a little kid when I I was very close to my uncle who was in the Second World War and he was with General Patton's third army. He was an interpreter because he spoke four languages fluently.

And so I was very fond of him and he would on his on his furlow he'd come down to play baseball with me and so forth. Then he went away to war and he he was killed in the battle of the bulge. But when he died I was very close to him. The way the family dealt with it was it it just wasn't talked about. It just happened and you you didn't ask a lot of questions. You just was what it was. And so I think that was sort of built into a family structure. So, as a result, when when my mom went through that, there were there was no no talk about it. Everybody moved on.

Your mother died when you were 18. Um, she was sick. I I'm I'm not sure what she uh died of. Um, how did it change the course of your life? Did you re have to like rewrite your plans? And

I don't know that it changed anything at the time. She was a a wonderful person. She died very young. She was full of life, full of laughter, full of love. She was out there. I mean, she would take chances and she was very risky and and uh she taught me how to drive a car when I was 10 and nobody knew about it. I mean, that kind of stuff. So, so we had a close relationship, but also I was of a of a young mind just like all the other kids my age where you didn't want your parents around. You didn't want your parents doing on you. You didn't want attention or anything like that.

and you had a mother that that wanted to give you that attention and you kind of pushed it away. I I feel bad about that. you went to college and from what I've read academics was not your thing so much and that you did a lot of drinking and um rode motorc well not I don't know about that cuz that came a little bit later that I it was really

I went to college to get out of Los Angeles I went to college because it was Colorado and it was the mountains and I by that time I realized that nature was going to be a huge part of my life that Los Angeles for me was a city that when I was a little kid at the end of the Second World War, I loved that. I loved it. It was full of green spaces and and suddenly when the war ended and the economy revived, suddenly Los Angeles, but had no land use plan, it felt like the city was being pushed into the sea that I love because suddenly there were skyscrapers and freeways and smog. And I said, "Wait a minute. What's I want it out." So I went into the mountains into the Sierras and worked at Yusede National Park and fell in love with nature that way and I realized that nature was going to be a big part of my life. So I I sought I sought land elsewhere that I thought would be kept free of development.

You're talking about sundowns? Yeah. But let's get back to the drinking part in college.

Okay. you know, in just reading briefly about that. No, it sounded like an almost like rebel without a cause era, you know, because

you know what it was was Yeah. I guess it was Yeah. You know, like you're you're breaking loose and everything, but there's no there sounds like there was no like social political spiritual whatever drug even like context to put it in.

Well, there was alcohol. Uh there was social social. So, the socialability was tied mostly to alcohol in those days. And so yeah, I I certainly had my feel of that. But what was at the heart of all this, I think, was the fact that I never really I was not a good student through my entire life. My mind was out the window. I I drew underneath the desk. I drew pictures. I just didn't I wasn't learning the way I was supposed to learn. And I think I realized that my education was going to happen when I got out in the world and engaged with other cultures and other places and other languages and and had the adventure of exploration. I I felt that's my education. So I I left uh actually I was asked to leave. So

why why were you asked to leave? Because my grades because I was such a terrible student. My grades were terrible and um the interests I had were not anything that was going to amount to much of a career for me. You know, anthropology I loved, psychology, I loved, and geology I just really loved. So, you put all those things together, what are you going to what are you going to be in life? And uh anyway, I took off and earned some money in an oil field to to earn enough money to last for a year in Europe. And I went there when I was 18 to be an artist. And that's when I began. I think that's when my education really began.

You did a lot of episodic TV early in your career in the early 1960s. Maverick, Rescue 8, The Deputy, Playhouse 90, Perry Mason, Naked City, The Twilight Zone.

Hey, now Terry Perry Mason. Now look, do you know what the the title of that? That was what, 1959? You know what the title of that was?

What? The case of the treacherous toupe. That was the name of it. How's that? I was so excited to have a job, you know.

Who had the toup pay? Was it wasn't you? I can't remember now. It wasn't Raymond Burr, but uh somebody did. Some blonde, but those were your apprenticeship years. And it's always sort of one one of the things that's sort of been weird is to see yourself characterized so often as somebody that that looks well, that has glamorous looks or is appealing physically. Uh that's nice. I mean I'm I'm not unhappy about that but what I saw happening over time was that was getting the attention and sometime because I always felt that I was an actor and that's how I started. I wanted I was a person who loved the idea of craft and that learning your craft was something fundamentally and good and I wanted to be good at my craft and therefore I would be an actor that would play many different kinds of roles which I did. I played killers. I played rapists.

um really deranged characters, but most people don't know about that cuz that was in television. So suddenly you're seeing yourself in kind of in a glamour category and you're saying, well, wait a minute, you know, the the the notion is that well, you're not so much of an actor. You're just somebody that looks well. And that was always hard for me because I always took pride in whatever role I was playing. I would be that character. uh like you know if you look at say Jeremiah Johnson you know the character in the wilderness and within the same year I was doing the candidate and you put those two together and you you would hope that some of you say well somebody's acting here

I wanted to play a clip from your early episodic TV years and was thinking well I'm a big fan of Route 66 um have the box set yeah I love that show I loved it as a kid and I I love it looking back at it

as a kid thanks a hot people. What were you 10 when I did my my uh segment? Hey, I'm a I was alive then. A lot of people weren't.

What I liked about Route 66 was not so much the show as it was the route because I remember hitchhiking as a kid back and forth on Route 66 because there were no freeways then. There were no turnpikes or anything like that. And so Route 66 was the way you got from Chicago to LA or vice versa. So anyway, so I figured, whoa, let's do a clip from Route 66. And then I'm reading your biography and read I read this line on page 87 that you're saying to your agent, I'd rather rot than be remembered for Route 66.

I said that you're quoted as saying that. What can I say? Am I? I can't remember the the show. Do you have a clip you say?

Yeah. Yeah. So this is You don't even remember doing it. This is from a 1961 episode with with uh Nehemiah Persaf as your father. And it's set in a miltown in a a Polish American community and like you've gone off to out of town college. So you've gotten out of the milltown, but you're back on a college break. And and the episode opens with you chasing after your girlfriend who's running away in the woods. And we don't know what this fight is about, but you're trying to catch up to her. You're not trying to attack her or anything.

You're just trying to catch up to her and to reach her and to communicate with her. She accidentally kind of falls off this hill and hits her head and dies. and you don't know what to do. So, you don't call the cops. You don't tell anybody. You try to tell your father, but your father your father just doesn't want to hear anything. You're having trouble communicating with him. He doesn't want to hear it. Later, the police discover her dead. You're implicated in her death and you're trying to explain to your father what really happened because he's on the verge of killing you. Your your father doesn't know that you secretly had this girlfriend who was the daughter of your father's good friend. So anyways, so here here's you trying to explain to your father, played by Nehemiah Pers, what was really going on with your girlfriend and what was really going on with your relationship with your father.

Do you know why she ran? Because she said to me, "Do you love me? Will you marry me?" And I couldn't answer her with the truth. I couldn't say yes. Oh boy, I want to marry you. Before God and the whole world, I do. How could I say that to her and hurt her even more?

I wanted to marry her. Would you have stood for it, Papa? If you had to marry her,

I didn't have to. It was never anything like that. Then why not with you? Why you not come to me? Why you not come to me?

Have I ever ever ever been able to come to you, Baba? with anything that was my own idea. Haven't you always decided everything for me? Haven't you decided everything for me? Always. Who I must be, what I must be, how I must be.

I I don't remember that at all. I um I'm not ashamed of it, obviously, but I don't God, that's so interesting. I don't remember. I just don't remember that at all. That's amazing.

So, your voice sounds, you know, so much different. It's higher. Well, yeah. I was uh recently JC and I JC Chandor and I were

the director of All Lost. Yeah. Director of All Lost. JC and I were at a festival and they ran clips of my career and I had never seen they had clips going all the way back all the way up to now and it was very uncomfortable, very uncomfortable. Uh clips from different films and it went back into TV and it went back into something around the same time about a year earlier. the the um the Iceman Cometh.

Uhhuh. When we looked at this clip, uh I'm playing a young kid that is going to commit suicide, you know, Don Parrot, who who commits suicide at the end of the show. And you're right, the the voice was very different, just like you're you're describing. And I did the last Playhouse 90 that was ever done. And I just thought that was the best show when I was a kid. I thought that was the best show on television. And I was fortunate enough to be in the very last Playhouse 90 that was written by Rod Sterling and and I was able to be I played a a young German lieutenant, very sympathetic Nazi lieutenant. He gets corrupted by or somebody else tries to corrupt him, but he resists the corruption. And Charles Lton played the rabbi.

Oh, acting with Charles Lorton must have been so interesting. But there's a great story that's told in your biography about the slap.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was intimidating. Uh it was one of my first parts. Um and there was a scene with George McCriedi who played my commanding officer. And it's during a a pilgrim and they're calling out names in the street to be packed into trucks. And then afterwards we come up to the rabbi's apartment and there's a a tension between the rabbi played by Charles Lton and McCriedi and there's a intellectual challenging involving Nietze and God and so forth. So I'm just there clueless. I'm this young innocent naive guy and at one point Lton drops something. He drops his Bible and I reach down to pick it up which is a no no. And McCreaty sees this and realizes, "Uhoh, this kid needs some training." And the rabbi sees that my instinct is to be compassionate. I reach down to pick up the Bible.

And so he looks me in the eye and the look is like, "I see who you really are. I see who you really are." McCrady says, "Apparently, you feel like you have to be sympathetic to the rabbi." He says, "Therefore, I instruct you to slap him." So then I supposedly slap him. I I reluctantly, but I slap him. We're getting ready to do it. It's going to be live. It was going to be live telecast. As we're getting ready in rehearsal, Lton comes up and he says, "Dear boy, causing me to slap. What are you going to do?" And I said, "What do you mean, what am I going?" He said, "What are you going to do? Because I can't be hit." I I said, "You can't be hit." "No, I can't be hit. What are you going to do?" I thought, "Oh, geez."

Well, now what am I going to do? You know, so I go to the director and I said, "What am I supposed to do here?" And he said, "Oh, gee, don't don't bother me. I got enough troubles." So, we get on the show and and I'm standing there and as we're getting to the moment, I'm thinking, "Who is this guy to tell me what I'm supposed to do, what I can't do, what I can't do?" And I got so riled up and I was so nervous on top of it that when it came time I thought, "Who is he to tell me what I can do or can't do?" So I hauled up and really whacked him. And it wasn't a slap, it was a it was a whack. And his jaw, spit came out of his jaw, you know, he and he looked at me and tears came out of his eyes. But he looked at me and when it was over, I thought, "Oh boy, you know, I can get a mouthful out." So, I go to his dressing room to to apologize and I'm really sorry. He says, "No, you did the right thing. Uh, you

did the right thing." That's such a great story and it's so interesting that you have such a vivid memory of doing that Playhouse 90 edition and of the Charles Lton story and no memory of Route 66.

Well, I think it's because Playhouse 90 was such a big deal as a kid. There there were two shows on television. the the the Sid Caesar show. Uh I've forgotten the name of it. It it was shows, you know,

show of shows. Yeah. And it would come to Los Angeles via Kinoscope, I think, and uh and Playhouse 90. Those two shows were the top of the line on on drama and and comedy. And it made a huge impact on me as a kid. You know, I just thought they were wonderful shows. The idea that I could be in one and particularly since it was going to be the last one was a big honor. It it was a a real thrill for me.

So, skipping ahead to 1969, you make Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid with Paul Newman, and this is the movie that makes you kind of iconic. Um, had you did you already know how to ride horses? Did you like westerns when you were making this?

Yeah, I knew how to ride horses. I loved horses. Uh, I liked doing my own stunts when I could. um when it first came up because of the age difference between Paul and I which was like 12 13 years um and he was really wellknown I was not wellknown I had just done I think the film Barefoot in the Park but he had a career obviously that was very high and so the studio did not want me that the director George Roy Hill and I met in a bar on Third Avenue and u they were putting me up to play Butch Cassidy because I'd done this comedy on on Broadway. So the, you know, nobody thinks very deep about stuff like that.

They said, "Well, if he did a comedy, maybe you should go up for Butch Cassidy." And so we're sitting in this bar and I told him at the time, I said, "Yeah, I I can do that, but that's not the part that interests me. The I'm more interested in the Sundance Kid. I feel more comfortable in that role. I I feel more I could connect more to that character." And that surprised George and then he got kind of sold on that idea but the studio didn't want me and they tried everything to keep me out of the film at that time this 20th Century Fox and I think it was Paul Newman and William Goldman the writer and George that stood up for me against the studio. But the one that really pushed it aside of course was was Paul. And when I met Paul, he he was very generous and and uh he said, "I'll I'll do it with Redford."

Um I never forgot that. That was a gesture that I never forgot. I I felt that I really owed him after that. And then he he and I in the course of that film became really really good friends. And that friendship carried on to the next film and then it carried on to end our personal lives.

He was originally supposed to be the Sundance Kid and you were supposed to be Butch Cassidy.

Uh yeah, that's right. But the the original title of the uh script was the Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy. That was the original title that Goldman had written. Uh and Newman was to play Sundance, but he had played that kind of part before. And George was a guy that saw Paul. He saw a side of Paul that many hadn't seen because he had worked with him in television and he knew him personally. He says, "No, this guy, he's very nervous. He talks a lot. He tells bad jokes. Um, he he I think I see him as Butch Cassidy and and he saw me as Sundance. So, he had to fight for that. So, when it was finally done, then they changed the title to Bush Cassidy, the Sundance Kid.

Would you mind if I played a scene? Mm-m. Okay. So, this is this is a kind of famous scene where, you know, you're you're both uh bank and train robbers, and at this point, you're not exactly surrounded, but you're cornered. You're you're on a um

a ledge. a ledge. Yeah. And and on top of you on this, you know, rocky ledge is or is the posi that's hunting you down. You've got no place to turn. You've got no place to go except for the water that's underneath and that's you're up really really high and it's a very rocky river or stream. But anyways, as Butch Cassidy is trying to figure out what their options are, what you want to do is like shoot your way out. And so you speak first.

Ready? No, we'll jump. Like hell we will. No, it'll be okay. The war is deep enough we don't get squished to death. They'll never follow us.

How do you know? Would you make a jump like that? You didn't have to. I have to and I'm not going to.

Well, we got to. Otherwise, we're dead. They're just going to have to go back down the same way they come. Come on. Just one clear shot. That's all I want.

Come on. Uh-uh. We got to get away from me. Why? I want to fight them. They'll kill us. Maybe you want to die. Do you? All right, I'll jump first.

Nope. Then you jump first. No, I said What's the matter with you? I can't swim.

Why are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you. How reassuring. Yeah, right. So that's my guest, Robert Redford with uh Paul Newman from the 1969 film Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Were you surprised at how famous that scene became?

Yes, I I was I mean that I was surprised at the whole thing. I I remember when I when I saw the rough cut. I mean, I love making the film. I had a lot of fun. I've never had so much fun on a film as I have that one. But when when I saw the the rough cut of it, I said, "Wait a minute. What's that song doing in it?"

Oh, raindrops are falling on my head. The bird said, "Wait a minute. What's that all about?" I said, "What in the hell?" And then I said, "Raindrop, first of all, it's not raining. Secondly, what's that got to do with anything?" I I thought, "Well, that that's they just kill the film." It it made no sense to me. And you know, how wrong can you be? I had to listen to that song on the radio for six months. Um but the film also uh Terry another thing it's interesting about how I guess the value of word of mouth. Um I remember when the film came out uh George Roy Hill and William Goldman were very upset and depressed because the reviews were mixed to negative and u word of mouth is what made the film build but when it first opened it had these mixed reviews. I didn't read them. I remember they were very upset and depressed and one of the reasons the reviews or some of the reviews were negative was that the anacronism of the

dialogue like modern-day talk then I found that pretty inspiring and and fun. It was just fun. But apparently that that's what some of the negative response was. But it was I guess overridden by the by the acceptance of the whole film. By the way, I had the same reaction about raindrops of fallen on my head in the middle of the film. I thought,

yeah, made absolutely no sense to me. You and me then. There's there's two of us.

So, not long after shooting Butch Cassidy, you found co-founded a new organization called Education, Youth, and Recreation to promote alternative films on university campuses. And this is this is really

mistake. It was a big mistake. Why was it a big mistake? Well, because at that time I I was already beginning to feel the the urge to to do something to do something that would be uh maybe more supporting more independent type films. The idea was that we would get some funding together and that we would buy up films that had been either poorly distributed like Billy Fredkin's Birthday Party or uh Dynamite Chicken, you know, some of the documentaries because I always love documentaries. was always extremely positive and supportive of documentaries. And so whatever I could do to promote them, even back then, 1970, um we thought, well, what if we buy up documentaries that were either not distributed or poorly distributed and films that were the same, put them into a package and went for the college market, went right to the colleges and say, "Okay, we're bringing this to you."

Well, what we realized that no one came that we assumed that there was a college market, but no, the what most of the students wanted to do was to to go into town and see Dr. Shiovalago. So, there were just very few that wanted to see films like this. They were kind of film buffs, but that wasn't enough to create a college market. So, it failed.

Did you lose money personally on that? No, I didn't have my own money into it, but I I suspect that over time, if I look back on it, that was probably the

the roots of the genesis of what later became. Yeah. Mhm. It's you know, it's interesting uh that back in with the late 60s, early '7s, you were already thinking in those in that direction.

Yeah. And it was different then because you know, one of the beauties was that I was able to work in both in the within the mainstream. In those days, the studios would allow for smaller films to be made under their umbrella. So if I had like I wanted to tell stories about the America that I grew up in and and for me I was I was not interested in the red, white and blue part of America. I was interested in the gray part that where where complexity lies and where things get complicated. But I wanted to tell stories about issues that were American like that had impact on on people like politics and sport and business. And so I got two of them made and I wanted to make them like documentaries. So one was The Candidate, the other was Downhill Racer on a ski racer. But in those days you would do a larger film but you would also be able to if you did those films you could say well would you allow me to make this

smaller film and they would do it. So, The Candidate and Downhill Racer were done at Warner Brothers. At the same time, I would do a larger Warner Brothers film like All the Presence Men or what have you. So, that carried through the the 80s until the business changed and suddenly Hollywood became more centralized. It was following the youth market. Technology was creating more chances for special effects, which would be more of a draw for the youth. And so Hollywood, which basically Hollywood follows the money, that's what it does. And so it was going that direction. And it was beginning to to leave behind those other kinds of films. And so there was this gap there.

Uh they weren't likely to be making those films anymore. They they were going to be offloading them. that led to the idea of well to keep this thing alive because this is where new voices are going to be developing or new films can be coming that are independent that are more exciting and more humanistic and stuff like that. So I that was what led to the idea of Sundance first with the labs and then the festival but if I look back on it and think back in time it probably started way back then with that first venture that failed. Well, yeah. Well, it's interesting. Taking the films to college campuses failed. So, you started on your own campus and people would come to you.

For a guy that never graduated from anything, that's pretty interesting. Do you try to see a lot of the films that come out of Sundance?

I try to. Yeah. I sometimes don't get to see all of them. Uh it it's been a little in the beginning it was more fun. Uh it's not quite the fun anymore it was when it was just starting because you're you're uphill. you're kind of against the odds and there's something exciting about that risk and you you're pushing it and pushing it and there's something exciting about it and then once success comes then suddenly other elements come into it that kind of load it all up and then you find yourself doing like publicity or interviews or having to meet this top person or that top person and all that's right that's proper I guess but it's not the fun it was when you are standing out there trying to get people in like you're standing outside of a strip joint, you know, and say, "Hey, you want to come in and see this movie, you know,

and Sundance is starting soon." I mean, it's January, this year's Sundance Film Festival.

It's coming down the pike. You'll be there, right? Somewhere. It's like Dick Diver, you know, Dick Diver is somewhere in the vicinity. There's a great line in in and tenders the night says I think it's the last line of the piece as for Dick Diver as to his exact whereabouts no one is quite sure except it's known that he's somewhere in the vicinity which is so great.

Well, unfortunately our time is up but um I hope we get to continue this conversation.

I look forward to a part two. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There's so much we haven't gotten to. It's really been a pleasure to talk with you. Um good luck in award season. Good luck with this year's Sundance Film Festival. Thank you so much for coming back.

Thank you, Terry. And your voice is a lot more pleasant than mine. Oh, I wish. No, it is. It is. You have a beautiful voice.

Oh, thank you so much. I'll play that back in my mind. Okay.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "At 77, Robert Redford goes back to his roots (2013 Interview) | Fresh Air"?

Terry Gross (Host), Robert Redford (Guest).

What is "At 77, Robert Redford goes back to his roots (2013 Interview) | Fresh Air" about?

In this interview, Robert Redford discusses his role in the film *All Is Lost*, where he portrays a lone sailor facing immense challenges at sea, showcasing his resilience and resourcefulness. At 77, Redford reflects on his illustrious career, highlighting both his acting achievements and directorial works.

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

21 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including All is Lost, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Candidate, Sundance Film Festival, JC Chandor, Ordinary People. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "At 77, Robert Redford goes back to his roots (2013 Interview) | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 43 min; the transcript is about 8,163 words in 104 timestamped sections.

More from Fresh Air

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.