Colman Domingo (2023 interview) | Fresh Air

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Rustin, Coleman Domingo, Bayard Rustin, Euphoria
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Rustin, Bayard Rustin
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Rustin
4. 15:00 – 20:00: The Color Purple, Rustin
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Coleman Domingo, Rustin, The Color Purple, Euphoria
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Euphoria, Euphoria
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Euphoria, Euphoria, Coleman Domingo, Rustin
8. 40:00 – 45:00: Boardwalk Empire, Coleman Domingo, Fear of the Walking Dead, Rustin
9. 45:00 – 49:05: Fear of the Walking Dead, Boardwalk Empire, Coleman Domingo, Euphoria

Notable quotes from "Colman Domingo (2023 interview) | Fresh Air"

• Abusive husband who treats his wife like his personal slave. Domingo also plays the title role in Rustin, the biopic about civil rights leader Bayard Rustin.

  about Rustin · at 0:12

• Was produced by the Obama's production company, Higher Ground, and directed by George C. Wolf. If you watched Euphoria, you'll recognize Coleman Domingo for his Emmy-winning…

  about Euphoria · at 1:34

• People in movies and TV. And then you got a part on Fear of the Walking Dead and that turned things back around again. But here you are in like two of the biggest end of the year movies. and you're in your you're 54 now, right?

  about Fear of the Walking Dead · at 42:56

• And one in particular was I auditioned for Boardwalk Empire to play the host of a club. And the cast brought me in. She said, Oh, you're perfect for this. You're perfect. We need a song and dance man. and we need a.

  about Boardwalk Empire · at 44:54

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Coleman Domingo — Person · 10 mentions · first at 0:05
  This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Two of the big holiday film releases star my guest Coleman Domingo. In the new musical film adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister…
• Bayard Rustin — Person · 4 mentions · first at 0:20
  His personal slave. Domingo also plays the title role in Rustin, the biopic about civil rights leader Bayard Rustin.
• Terry Gross — Person · 2 mentions · first at 0:00
  This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Two of the big holiday film releases star my guest Coleman Domingo. In the new musical film adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister, the cruel,.
• Martin Luther King — Person · 1 mention · first at 0:35
  Rustin was the chief organizer of the 1963 March on Washington for jobs and freedom where Martin Luther King gave his famous I have a dream speech. The march drew 250,000…

Books & papers

• Rustin — Book · 18 mentions · first at 0:17
• The Color Purple — Book · 10 mentions · first at 0:07
  Of the big holiday film releases star my guest Coleman Domingo. In the new musical film adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister, the cruel, abusive husband who treats…
• Euphoria — Book · 7 mentions · first at 1:39

Companies & orgs

• Euphoria — Company · 7 mentions · first at 1:39
  Was produced by the Obama's production company, Higher Ground, and directed by George C. Wolf. If you watched Euphoria, you'll recognize Coleman Domingo for his Emmy-winning…
• Fear of the Walking Dead — Company · 3 mentions · first at 42:58
• Boardwalk Empire — Company · 2 mentions · first at 44:56
• Higher Ground — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:36
  The 60th anniversary. The film Rustin was produced by the Obama's production company, Higher Ground, and directed by George C. Wolf. If you watched Euphoria, you'll recognize…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Two of the big holiday film releases star my guest Coleman Domingo. In the new musical film adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister, the cruel, abusive husband who treats his wife like his personal slave. Domingo also plays the title role in Rustin, the biopic about civil rights leader Bayard Rustin. If you're not familiar with Bard Rustin or you know his name but not much else, the reason is explained in the film. Rustin was the chief organizer of the 1963 March on Washington for jobs and freedom where Martin Luther King gave his famous I have a dream speech. The march drew 250,000 people from around the country and it was Rustin who oversaw the planning and logistics. It was Rustin who introduced the idea of passive resistance to Martin Luther King. But Rustin was gay, and in 1963, several civil rights leaders feared that could discredit Rustin, the March, and

1:02 the larger movement. Adding to their concern was that he'd briefly been a member of the Young Communist League, and later during World War II, he was jailed for resisting the draft as a conscientious objector. Consequently, he was forced to remain in the background behind the scenes. President Obama did his part to credit Rustin by postumously awarding him the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2013, marking the 50th anniversary of the march. This year is the 60th anniversary. The film Rustin was produced by the Obama's production company, Higher Ground, and directed by George C. Wolf. If you watched Euphoria, you'll recognize Coleman Domingo for his Emmy-winning performance as Ali Muhammad, who's in recovery and is the AA sponsor for Zenaia's character.

1:51 Domingo is also known for his roles in Fear the Walking Dead, Zola, Maharini's Black Bottom, If Beiel Street Could Talk, and Passing Strange. And on Broadway, he was one of the stars of the Scottsboro Boys with a score by Cander and Eb. Let's start with a scene from Rustin. Byard Rustin knows there's pressure on him to resign from any role in the march and resigned from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference which was led by King and is played in the film by Al Amin. Rustin tries to convince King that the movement should resist against the threat of blackmail or smear campaigns targeting Rustin's homosexuality.

2:30 Each of us are taught in ways both cunning and cruel that we are inadequate incomplete. And the easiest way to combat that feeling of not being enough is to find someone we consider less than. Less than because they are poorer than us or because they are darker than us or because they desire someone. Our churches and our laws say they should not desire. When we tell ourselves such lies, start to live and believe such lies, we do the work of our oppressors by oppressing ourselves. Strong Thurman and Hoover don't give a about me.

3:04 What they really want to destroy is all of us coming together and demanding this country change. Are they expecting my resignation? Some are. Yes.

3:23 Then they're going to have to fire me because I will not resign. On the day that I was born black, I was also born a homosexual. They either believe in freedom and justice for all or they do not.

3:43 Common Domingo, welcome to Fresh Air. You're terrific in this movie and I would be shocked if you were not nominated for an Oscar.

3:49 Oh, Terry, thank you so much for having me. It means the world. Thank you. You know, I knew so little about Bard Rustin. I grew up with his name. I heard his name, but he was like a guy in the civil rights movement. That's about all I knew about him. What did you know before you were asked to do the movie?

4:04 I knew a little bit more than most people, and I think any any of the listeners out there will question why they didn't know about him. He was all but erased in the history books. I stumbled upon him. Uh, I was a student at Temple University in Philadelphia and I joined the African-American Student Union in my junior year and I think we were just having a discussion about the civil rights movement and some of its leaders and then they were describing Bayard Rustin and Bard the more that someone described him I became more fascinated the fact that he was a Quaker and from Westchester, Pennsylvania that he was uh he played the loot and he sang Elizabeth and love songs. He was a star athlete. He staged, you know, sitins and and protests when he was a teenager. And he organized a march on Washington for jobs and freedom. I was like, "Wait, what? How come we don't know about this person? This is a person of such size

5:02 and someone who seems to be full in their experience in the world. How is it possible that he's been erased from history?" But of course I understood once I found that he was openly gay. I understood exactly why.

5:15 And did you know at that point that you were gay? Did I know at that point that I was gay? I knew. I think I always knew. I grew up in inner city West Philadelphia and you know you I think people know you know uh but then I was coming to terms with my own sexuality probably at the same time that I that spark of understanding who by Rustin was in the world. And I think um I sort of maybe quietly and privately looked at by Rustin as a north star, someone who not only was um true to himself and his experience in his sexuality, but with limitless possibilities of what he could do, what he could be. He didn't marginalize himself. And so I must have downloaded that information in some way, shape, or form. and that's sort of helped me live my life completely and wholly. Um, now I'm 54 years old and I think uh he was very purposeful to me at a at a young age.

6:14 So who did you talk to? There's still some contemporaries of Bayard Rustin who are alive who worked with him on the March on Washington. Were you able to talk with any of them?

6:24 Oh absolutely. I was able to talk to um in particular Rashelle Horowitz who's featured in the film played by Lily Kay. Uh Relle Horowitz and I we actually have a text feed. We um she texts me pretty much every day now. I think we just really share a kindred spirit. And so I'm able to ask her private questions, things that like maybe have helped inform some of my choices, but also things that may not have. I just wanted to know the soul of this guy. And um I literally was just at Walter Nagel at his apartment which is he and Bard's apartment. He still lives in the very same apartment in

6:58 there. There were a couple for about 10 years from 1977 until uh his death. Yeah. Yeah. And and Walter Nagel and I had lunch. Uh it was the first time I I went over to Bard's apartment and it looked like time stood still. It was amazing. Walternego has been the keeper of Bard's legacy and um there's all this religious sculpture and art and books and records and walking sticks cuz by Rustin was a collector of everything wherever he traveled he got a lot of stuff.

7:29 Now the woman who you mentioned Rochelle um what was her role in the march? Her role in the march she organized transportation. Oh, her margin of Washington. And she was only she was 19 20 years old, you know. He had he nothing but young people working with him, you know, cuz I think by really liked to work with young people cuz he felt like they weren't rigid and they were willing to, you know,

7:49 Oh, they were willing to work under really crummy working conditions. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

7:53 For nearly 24 hours a day. Exactly. Because you need that spirit though. You're like, "Hey, that can do spirit."

8:01 I want to play a clip of Bard Reston speaking. And this isn't you as Rustin. This is Rustin.

8:08 So, this is him speaking at the March on Washington where he talked about the goals of the march. And the sound quality isn't great, but I think people will be able to make it out and hear what his voice sounded like. The first demand is that we have effective civil rights legislation, no compromise, no filibuster, and that it includes public accommodation, decent housing, integrated education, FAPC, and the right to vote. What do you say?

8:46 So, his voice is higher than yours. Yes, it is. So, what did you do to try to get his voice and his way of speaking? He had a very formal way of speaking, I think.

8:56 Well, it was formal, but it was also um he created it. He created his accent, right?

9:02 Oh, yeah. He he created his accent. He he as I was doing research and I was, you know, finding any materials that I can find of interviews, debates, you name it. I noticed he had sort of a somewhat mid-Atlantic standard accent. Um, very much akin to like Katherine Heepburn or Betty Davis. And at times it would sound a bit more British and at times it would sort of fall away. And I was like, "Wait a minute. This guy's from Westchester, Pennsylvania. I'm from Philadelphia. We don't sound like that."

9:28 Yeah. They were they were close to each other. Yeah. Pretty close to each other. So I was like, "Something's going on there." And I asked Michelle Horowitz. I said, "Well, where' that accent come from?" And she said, "Well, he made it up." And I thought, "Wait, what? He made it? Who makes up an accent?" Well, this guy does, which is brilliant. But he made it up for a couple reasons. One in particular is that he had a uh speech impediment. He used to stutter. So he would do work to make sure he was clear in his language and he would also heighten it because he was a bit of um he just was obsessed with anything British. That pitch of his voice in the march is even fuller than actually really. I mean it was even higher p. It was a bit more like up here and he would do you know flourish it a bit more up here. Even more so, I was trying to find ways how he used it in different scenes, whether he was with, you know, members

10:20 of the NAACP or or when he was just in private and then when it fell away when he's a bit more vulnerable. So, I had to figure out how to calibrate it for a film. But in reality, it was all over the place in every recording. It's it's something else. And so, it was hard to pin down at first. And then I just had to make um take dramatic license and make choices with it. But also, I didn't want to be a caricature and and mimic his voice. I I wanted to find those elements that worked narratively. So, I had to really just really, you know, just really score it for myself. You

10:56 know, you mentioned he had a stutter. You had a lisp when you were young. Did you have a stutter, too?

11:02 No, you did your homework. I did. I I had a lisp. I had speech classes up until I was about 11 or 12 years old where I would have to go into with a speech therapist in school and dentalize my T's and S's and X's and just really learned how to use my my teeth and my tongue because I was a avid reader. I read everything. But I think it just gave me more confidence to have um a love for language. I think that's where my love for language started in speaking. Again, we we have a similarity in that way, me and BD, where we had something to overcome when it comes to language. And I think it's made us um I don't I love speaking. I I'm not afraid of uh coloring my words.

11:50 Well, it's probably really good training for theater, but also really good training for learning how to speak differently, like learning how to speak like Rustin, because you learned how to speak without your lisp.

12:00 Yeah. And I also had when I was um portraying Rustin, I had to uh wear uh prosthetics uh for my upper teeth because I had three teeth out. So that was also something I had to

12:11 put those uh prosthetics in uh like at least an hour and a half before. So usually when we get set, I put them in immediately and I would start working with my mouth to make because By speaks a lot and he speaks with elacrity and he's got a lot to say. So that was a great challenge. But I think it also gave me a slight lisp like he had which was pretty awesome.

12:35 Yeah. I was wondering about those teeth. He got his teeth dunked out in 1942. Yeah. When he refused to move to the back of the bus.

12:42 Yeah. One when he was one of the first people doing these bus protests, you know.

12:46 Mhm. So I was wondering I was wondering like how you I was thinking you didn't have your teeth pulled. Um I was asking that. I'm like I am not that method actor. I'm like I'm not that insane. when you were doing like speech therapy to overcome your lisp and you learned how to like pronounce your T's clearly and and your S's and you learn to like really clearly enunciate.

13:09 Yes. Were you considered phony when you started speaking that way? No, I wasn't. I I think at least I I don't think I was because I would say things like I would go boxes, you know, and I would have to just like dentalize and keep that tongue behind the teeth. Boxes, boxes, boxes. You know, it's funny. I still warm up very much when I do my warm-ups in the morning before I'm acting. I warm my whole mouth up because it's just a habit that I need to do to make sure my my mouth is operating and doing the thing I need it to do. But um I think every so often I feel like even if you've gone through some any sort of speech therapy, at times you you can hear it it slip once in a while. It's ingrained in some way, although we do the work to overcome it. Can you share some of what your uh vocal warm-up is like?

13:57 Sure. I Let's see. I would start by going um I love to do things with TE's and uh with language. I would say one fat hen, one fat hen, a couple of ducks, three brown bears, four slippery sliders, five freakish felines freaking frantically, six asalian sailors sailing the seven seas. Simple. Seven simple Simon. See, that's the hardest one. Seven simple Simon sitting on a stump. Eight egotistical egotist eagerly echoing egotistical ecstasies. Nine nibble nitnibble nibble nutnut on a cigarette's butt.

14:27 That's great. Did you make those words up? Did you make those phrases up? No, I didn't make those phrases up. They came, you know, it's all these theater games. Some some teacher taught me that years ago, but it really opens your mouth up and you also, you know, the and you you get your nasal passages open, you get your your ping sound. So if I'm working on stage, I want to make sure that I I'm supporting my voice and the somebody can hear it in the 10,000th seat on Broadway, you know. So there's a all this work to do just to get sound out and make it sound natural and good and supported.

15:01 So, um, also this month, The Color Purple opens and you play Mister, who is an abusive, cruel, spiteful husband who treats his much younger wife who basically bought for at a at a discount. Uh, he treats her like his slave. And so, you have to draw on completely different resources, I would presume, than you did for the idealistic Bard Rustin. Can you talk about where you find that more cruel part of yourself?

15:33 This is the way I think about how we create characters. I have to look within. For me, that makes it more human to understand that we all have good in us and that we all have the the capability to do some horrible things. If we weren't as evolved, if life didn't go well for us in some way, we can download and say, "Well, how would we feel? Why would we want to do that?" And that's the way I found Mister. I started to think, well, what was his dreams? What did he want? What did he need? What happened when he didn't get it? What systems were he living under? Why would he do this to this young woman?

16:09 And that's the way I started to find character and find out how he operated. So, The Color Purple was a novel, still is a novel by Alice Walker that was adapted into a film starring Oprah Winfrey. And then that was adapted into a Broadway musical um starring Cynthia Orivo and that Broadway musical was adapted into this film. Did you see any of the uh preceding versions in their time? And did you go back and and watch any of them and reread the book for the movie?

16:44 Yes, I first saw the movie in 1985 and I think I've watched it maybe 50 to 100 times in my life. And then I saw both versions of the musical, one starring Leashons and when it came back starring Cynthia Revo, also with Daniel Brooks, who's my co-star in this film version. And then when I was offered mister, I read went back all the way to the source of material and read the book and because I knew we were also doing something that was different. It it's not the rehashing the film or the musical even. I feel like, you know, when people come and see this experience of The Color Purple, they'll see it's a hybrid of sorts, but it really is honoring the book in many ways.

17:31 Why did you watch the film 50 times before you even knew you would be in another adaptation?

17:38 Oh man, I think what Steven Spielberg did in 1985 was masterful. It was beautiful to see because I think it's just a part of um I don't know, it really does tell you so much about who we are, who we are as African-Americans in America. And it deals with family. It deals with generational trauma. It deals with um women, people that maybe like your mom and grandmother and your aunties, you know, having conversations that seem private or dealing with male female relationships or father son that are complex and you're trying I don't know. I think I'm watching cuz I feel like I'm watching my family in some way.

18:15 Not my immediate family, but like generationally. Where do we come from? How did we get here?

18:21 What are still our struggles? It's it's that timeless actually. So, I think that's why anytime it was on anytime it's on a on a flight, I'll watch it. A

18:31 flight. Okay. It's true. It's good for a flight. It's great. Um, were you disappointed you didn't have like a real singing role in the movie?

18:40 No. You know why? Cuz I figured out why. Why? For at least for myself when first of all when I when I got offered it, I I went to the Broadway musical and started listening to all his songs and he had so many. Did I love them? I don't know if I loved the songs. I like I was like, "Okay, they're interesting." But when I got the script and I saw that I think at that time he still had two songs in it. And then by the time we got into production, both songs were cut. And I didn't say anything. I just thought, well, that's interesting. I wonder why.

19:10 And I saw that maybe I think about 13 songs were cut. And so I made a decision for myself as an actor. I thought, what happens to a person when they have no song? He doesn't have a song. That's part of his problem. He's constantly playing the banjo, trying to come up with song, but he can't. And he keeps getting interrupted. I can use that as a character. That this is the one the one central character who doesn't have a song. And I think that that psychologically, what does that do to a person when they have nothing to come out of their heart and in their minds? I think he's lacking an imagination. He's lacking his own evolution. you know that I think Celely and the the women like you know the Sophia and they're constantly evolving you know in Harpo who plays my son by Corey Hawkins he's evolving but Mister is just like his father and they're still dealing with some pain and trauma and not evolving

20:07 well we need to take another break here so let me reintroduce you if you're just joining us my guest is Coleman Domingo and he stars in the new film Rustin about the civil rights leader ired Rustin and he plays Mister in the new musical adaptation of The Color Purple. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air. When someone you love is diagnosed with cancer or another serious illness, all you want to do is help. But where do you start? On the LifeKit podcast, we have tips for you. Your agenda should be, "I'm going to be with you and be totally present to whatever comes up." Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts for different ways to offer support.

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21:14 You know, I have to ask, with this endless stream of sellable content, do you think Taylor Swift is exploiting her fans?

21:23 No. I'm going to say yes with an asterisk. Every pop star exploits their fans. Is Taylor Swift exploiting her fans or is she feeding them? Listen to it a minute on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. Before we get back to our show, we want to take a minute to say thank you so much to our FreshAir Plus supporters and anyone listening who donates to public media. Everything you hear from the NPR network really does depend on your contributions. For anyone listening who isn't a supporter yet, right now is a great time to get involved. If you like perks, FreshAir Plus offers sponsor free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. If you want to make a taxdeductible donation to your favorite NPR station or stations, that's great, too. We've even had NPR Plus subscribers make additional contributions.

22:21 No matter how you give, your donation helps us continue to bring you news and shows across the NPR network. If you value what we do here, please give today at donate.npr.org/ org/freshair or explore NPR Plus at plus.npr.org. Thanks. Let's get back to my interview with Coleman Domingo. He stars in two of the big holiday movie releases. In the biopic Rustin, he plays civil rights leader Bard Rustin, the man most responsible for organizing the 1963 March on Washington for jobs and freedom, but was forced to stay in the background because he was gay. The film is streaming on Netflix. In the new adaptation of The Color Purple, Domingo plays Mister, the abusive, cruel husband. That film opens Christmas Day.

23:11 Domingo is also known for his roles in Fear the Walking Dead and his Emmy award-winning performance in the HBO series Euphoria. You were great in Euphoria, the HBO series about teenagers doing a lot of drugs. And and and it starred Zenaia, and you played her sponsor. you were, you know, you were in recovery and um, you know, trying to talk to her about sobriety and I want to play a scene. So, it's Christmas Eve.

23:38 You're sitting in a diner, you know, Zenaia's character and you, her sponsor, and um, she, it appears that she's using again, and she's really in despair, and you're trying to convince her that she's capable of change, she's capable of getting sober, and that you've been there. So, you're describing some of the problems you had when you were using. So, let's hear the scene.

24:05 One night, I looked over and I see my two little girls watching and I thought, here I am, a grown man with two girls, and they just watched me hit their mom in the face. I spent 30 years of my life thinking of how to kill my dad for doing the same I just did to that mom. That's rock bottom. It doesn't get any worse than that. But hey, it took me another 5 years to clean up because for some people there is no rock bottom. It's bottomless. And the truth is drugs will fundamentally change who you are as a human being.

24:49 Every moral, every principle, everything you hold close to your heart and believe in will go out the window or down the drain because there's no force stronger on planet Earth than that next fix. Now, you may be functioning, maybe things go well, maybe they last, maybe they don't. But the one thing I know is true is that the longer you do drugs, the more you're going to lose. And not just in terms of the things you love, but the things you value about yourself. And every compromise you make, every moral line that you cross, you'll go further and further until you don't recognize who you are.

25:35 And that list of racing thoughts, that list of unforgivable things, it grows longer and gets uglier. You still think I'm a good person?

25:52 Yeah. Thought of maybe being a good person is what keeps me trying to be a good person.

26:02 Wow. I've never listened to that. Really? Mm- That's pretty good, right? What'd you think listening back to it? What went through your mind?

26:13 Just I don't know. It just got me emotional for some reason because I I think um wow, first of all, I don't even sound like myself. Um which I was just amazed at. I was like, "Oh, who's that person in this conversation?" And it's so gentle and it's so honest. Um the the idea of listening to the character is very interesting to me. It feels more emotional to me because I, you know, I had my experience filming it and it was the first thing we filmed out of uh co lockdowns and

26:49 wow that must have been emotional just there. There's something I hear in it because I know that that work was so important especially for that time. It really was like a balm. It really was like a prayer and a meditation on who we are right now. um and what people the hard conversations that people needed to have, you know, especially after, you know, you know, summers of racial reckoning and COVID and all that. And then we had the privilege to go back to work and tell the story and connect with another person because, you know, for that year and a half we weren't able to.

27:28 And I hear it in the sound of that scene and in my voice it it sounds different to me. It just I don't know. I sat here and just like I felt like I was there. But it was like it's just a conversation about trying to be a good person

27:40 trying really hard and he's not sure he can continue doing it because he's in recovery and the understanding is you're in recovery for life when you're in recovery and he has the gratitude you're talking about

27:52 and he has the authority to speak from experience to Zenaia's character. Yeah. But he also knows that that can end at any point which you could say about co too

28:03 you know about the moment that you were in like things were going to be good for now but who knows.

28:09 Yeah. I mean it it you know you know I know we don't talk a lot about that now but it's like when we really sit with it and I have that as an anchor that moment because I know all the feelings that I had and I thought thank God and we we we made it in some way that I we made it through this. I made it through it without being terribly ill. I made it through it with, you know, in some way, shape or form when and there was some scary times. And for me, that's my anchor is that episode. I know exactly how I was feeling. And it was such and, you know, we still have masks on and we were like, we're able to do this and take the masks off and just sit across and have this very intimate conversation that Sam set up for us.

28:50 I love your voice. Thank you. Um, it it it's very rich and very expressive. Um, and you can do a lot of different things with it. You can play so many different emotions with it. Um, you you've said that you based your portrayal uh in Euphoria on in part on on your brother. Um,

29:12 is it too personal to ask you about that? No, it's fine. My brother's such a great guy. We've actually gotten closer recently. He he had his own struggles with um you know with addiction and you know gone through recovery and things like that and actually had a very I think in the last year he's truly liberated himself but he also had to understand and maybe this is my own understanding of researching and understanding these communities of people in recovery and I I held him accountable to it in a way that I guess Ali would maybe I learned from Ali Just like Ellie is your character.

29:53 My character. Just call it what it is. Just say that you're an addict and you're always going to be an addict and it's okay. You have a disease and it's okay, but you've got to you've got to work with it. I I know that I was personally responsible for making sure my brother sought some help. I said, "Go to a meeting. Go to a meeting." He said, "Well, I'll go next week." I said, "No, no, no. There's meetings happening every day. Go tonight. Just go. Be vulnerable. Go. If you want to get well, get well. But you have to make that decision for yourself.

30:24 Did he see your portrayal in Euphoria? Yes. Did he tell you say anything about it?

30:30 Listen, even the way I placed my voice, I I feel like when I hear that, I sound just like my brother.

30:35 My brother is such a beautiful artist and he's very always been fascinated with religion and critical thinking. He's an amazing man. I don't know if he recognizes it or not, but he is actually one of my heroes cuz he's such a good man and he's a good father and he's one of these sort of like unsung people. He's, you know, he's a barber and he's got a very simple life, but he what he does is trying to he's always trying to be a good person.

31:00 So, what did he think of your performance? He loved it. Your portrayal. Yeah. He said, "You really know um" He said, "And people I know who've been in recovery, they recognize that guy and you you served everyone well. And it not only I don't think it's just my portrayal, but I think it's what the way Sam Levenson, my writer, director, has created the character and wrote for him. It was very honest and sincere.

31:25 Well, I think we have to take another break here. So, let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guest is Coleman Domingo. He plays the title role in the new film Rustin. And in the new musical film adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister. and he won an Emmy for his role in Euphoria as someone who is in recovery and is the sponsor for the main character played by Zenaia who has a drug addiction problem. We'll be right back after a break. This is Fresh Air. A lot of short daily news podcasts focus on just one story, but right now you probably need more. On Up First from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under 15 minutes. Because no one's story can capture all that's happening in this big, crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the Upfirst podcast from NPR.

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32:56 Let's get back to my interview with Coleman Domingo. He plays the title role in the new film Rustin about civil rights leader Bayard Rustin. And in the new musical film adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister. He won an Emmy for his portrayal of a recovering addict and the sponsor for the main character who is played by Zenaia in the series Euphoria. Let's talk about growing up. Um, you grew up in West Philadelphia on 52nd and Chancellor Street, which is about eight blocks away, maybe just seven blocks away from where the radio station where I work used to be.

33:33 Um, cuz this the station used to be in West Philadelphia on 46th and Market. Um, now both of those are near the University of Pennsylvania campus, but like 48th, 50th, 52nd, that was the kind of dividing line between people who were like students and went to Penn and professors who lived in West Philly and, you know, taught at Penn between them and just like the neighborhood

33:58 and the neighborhood was more inner city than the students at Penn. Um, which is, you know, an Ivy League school. Um, so what was your neighborhood like in terms of that division between it being a kind of university neighborhood and more of an inner city neighborhood?

34:16 I think I have the gifts of all of it because I lived, you know, with workingass folks. Um, you know, we have block parties all the time. Uh, very much a a community. You know, I knew we knew all of our neighbors. um went to public schools, uh went down to 52nd and Market Street and did our shopping. And then when I was a teenager, I started to venture out and sort of like cross over, you know, go down past 48th Street and go down to, you know, down Chestnut and down Walnut and Locust where the houses got a little bigger and there was the trees were a bit more lush and there was all these university students. It was very international. So, I was always drawn to that. I would always, you know, go with a couple friends and we just walk down there. It was almost like us going out into the world. It gave me a different sense of like, oh, what's possible, you know, I saw these different kinds of

35:14 people that didn't populate my neighborhood and I thought, okay, who are these different kinds of people? How do they see me? So, I don't know. I would always just I always went for walks out there. Um, but yeah, so I I think I just had a really very happy childhood. I think, you know, I'm always trying to dispel, not even dispel, but sort of like broaden people's views of the inner city thinking it's nothing but like violence and drugs and stuff like that. And like I didn't grow up like that. I grew up, you know, my parents would yell out of the house, you know, you know, for me to come in the house about 6:00 and we'd sit around the table and eat dinner together. You know, my stepfather's at the head of the table, my mom at the at the side, and all those kids, all those kids, like four of us sitting around the table, eating together, talking about our day. You know, my mother checked my

35:59 homework and wanted me to go to college and, you know, neighbors around the corner, my still my closest friends, uh, Stacy Thomas and Wendy and the whole story family, they had houses down down the shore. You know, they were, you know, there was some small generational wealth that folks had. And I think when I'm always telling people about like the kind of you know I will go down the shore with them. I would go to Wildwood and Cape May and you know they had these small beautiful little houses but I have this really sort of like great childhood you know.

36:30 Yeah it does sound good. So how old were you when you came out to your parents?

36:35 I was 21 years old. What was their reaction? Very supportive and loving. It became sort of a comedy of errors because I came out to my brother in front of a strip club actually because he was taking me there as you know I came back home from living in San Francisco and he takes me to a strip club cuz you know that's what big brothers do. I want to take you I got to take you to my spot. So he takes me there and I was just I felt like such a fraud and so I I had to excuse myself with him and I took him outside and out of everyone in my family I never thought that I would come out to my older brother first. My brother Rick was the coolest dude. Still is. you know, ladies man, all that. And um I just came out to him in front of the club and he just like he was so surprised, but he looked at me and he just hugged me so I love you anyway. But he said, "I'm just keep this between us." And then he tells my sister. My

37:26 sister calls me and she's pissed and I thought she was pissed because I was gay. She was pissed because I didn't tell her first and then we agreed that okay, let's just keep this between us, you know. Uh, but she also said, "But when you're ready, you should tell mom first because she shouldn't hear it secondhand like I did." And so then I call my parents and I because, you know, I my my family were very close, but I I think it's less evolved times when I came out in the like 1991. Less evolved times. And so it was a real a real threat of your parents sort of like

38:04 throwing you out, not throwing you out, not loving you, shutting you off. So I decided to come out to my parents. I came out to my mom. I knew as she was struggling to find the words and it wasn't easy for her because it was just a little confusing. But although later she says I always knew but I think she tried to figure some other narrative about me because whatever it was was too scary because she didn't understand understand what that was. But the moment I came out to her she uh she said okay um and she said well this just stay between us and then we hang up the phone and then 20 minutes later she calls me and she says hey so I talked to your stepfather about what we talked about. I said I was like what are you crazy? What is wrong with you? And she hands the phone to my stepfather.

38:49 Here he is. And he says to me the most loving, beautiful thing. This lets you know where I come from. My stepfather, big bluecollar dude, says to me, I I'll do it in his voice. He goes, "Well, you know what me and your mom talked about." I said, "Yeah." He said, "Well, you know, I just you're a good boy. You've always been a good boy. And I just want you to know that uh I think love is love." And I was so overwhelmed I started crying and he he was like, "You're a good boy. That's all that matters." And so even the the fact that they didn't know what that was or what it meant, they had enough love for me to try to find their way.

39:36 I'm really curious what the experience of being in the strip club with your brother was like.

39:42 Hilarious. Because you know there was I remember this one stripper in particular. she decided she, you know, my brother calls her over and I guess she was like a superstar, you know, the of the strip club. Um, and she comes over and she starts grinding on me, straddling me in every single way possible. Was very athletic and I was first I was impressed with her athleticism. I was like, "This is pretty amazing, but it's it's not really doing anything for me." But, uh, and then I started giggling, which is probably not something that people do in strip clubs. I was giggling and that seemed wrong and awkward.

40:16 And uh and I had to just then I had to excuse myself because it just it felt so crazy. Everything about us felt insane. And then we go outside. My brother's laughing. Was that fun? Was that good? You like that? I was like and it just felt like such a liar. I was like, "No, I I I it was I just had to in the moment. I would I didn't ever intend to come out to my brother. I probably never intended to come out to my brother. I feel like it just happened. I didn't even know that, hey, there was going to be a moment for me to come out. But in this moment, I thought, I can't do this anymore. This doesn't it doesn't feel like I'm honoring myself or being honest in any way.

40:53 Well, let me reintroduce you here. If you're just joining us, my guest is Coleman Domingo. He plays the title role in the new film Rustin about the civil rights leader who organized the 1963 March on Washington. And in the new musical film adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. On this week's Wild Card podcast, Nick Offerman says when he fell in love with his wife, Mega Malali, he couldn't believe it.

41:18 It was like if Merryill Streep or something showed up where I was just like, I think I'm Maril Stre and I are in love, but that doesn't seem possible or right.

41:30 Watch or listen to that wild card conversation on the NPR app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's tempting to try to maximize your productivity. Cross everything off your to-do list as fast as you can so you can finally rest. But

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42:23 So, you are really at an incredible point in your career now. Like, it seemed like you were really at a turning point about 13 15 years ago. I mean, you were in the uh off Broadway then Broadway musical Passing Strange, which was adapted, which it was filmed by Spike Lean and show shown on public television. You were in the Scottsboro Boys, a Cander and Eb musical. Um, and then you ended up bartending again and thinking that

42:50 you had studied photojournalism. You're thinking, well, maybe I'll just go into doing head shot for

42:55 Yeah. people in movies and and TV. And then you got a part on Fear of the Walking Dead and that turned things back around again. But here you are in like two of the biggest end of the year movies. Um, and you're in your you're 54 now, right?

43:10 Yeah. Yeah. So, what's it like for you to be in this totally different professional space

43:16 right now in your life after almost giving it up a few years ago? Yeah. You know what? I've been I've been working now for what 33 years and I think I made a commitment early on that it was the life of an artist that I always thought I was successful if I just got paid for doing what I love and I was just committed to the work and and so even when I started out in you know educational theater tours and also you know off Broadway regional theater I performed in probably at least 50 regional theaters around the country I have off Broadway credits you name it just I just wanted to work and do good work though, being very specific about being useful uh with work. And so by the time I finished the Scottsboro Boys in London in uh 2013, I thought this was everything I wanted to do. I was purposeful. I was useful. It was entertaining. Um I was respected. Uh I literally was nominated for an Olivier.

44:14 And then I came back to New York and I was being offered these uh auditions, not even offers, auditions for like, you know, under five in our in our business. It's like under five lines. And I just thought, I don't think I'm being used properly. And I think it's time to do something else. I'm in my mid-40s. Friends that I grew up with are now attorneys and doctors and having healthy livelihoods. and I'm living in a rentstabilized apartment in Manhattan and struggling honestly. So, I thought I was done and I went home one day after a series of disappointments.

44:54 And one in particular was uh I auditioned for Boardwalk Empire to play uh the host of of a club. And the cast brought me in. She said, "Oh, you're perfect for this. You're perfect. We need a song and dance man. and we need a charismatic guy to be the host of this club, Chalky's Club. And I thought, "Oh, great. Wonderful." I auditioned for it. They love it. They call me in for um a producer session. I go in there. I kill it. So, I go to the gym and I'll never forget this day and my agent calls and she says, "Clean," I thought, "Here, this is it. This is something. I need something." She says, "Clean, hi. Um, she said, "Um, I just heard back from Boardwalk Empire." I was like, "Okay."

45:40 And she said, "They loved you." Okay. Casting loved you. Producers, director, everyone loved you. You were great. And they wanted to say thank you and all your work. I said, "Okay." And she said, "But unfortunately, one of the researchers poked their head up and said, "Oh, but did you know that hosts of these clubs were all light-skinned?"

46:03 Oh. And at that time, you're kidding. And I literally screamed in this gym and I burst into a puddle of tears after screaming. And my agent was so upset. She said, "Oh my god, Cole, where are you? Where are you? Where are you?" I said, "I can't I can't take this anymore. I can't do it. It's going to break my heart. I can't do it. I have to stop." And as I was processing that, my dear friend Daniel Breaker, I was telling him this. I said, "I'm done." He said, "Okay." He said, "Uh, you know, my managers have been wanting to meet with you for years." I said, "No, no. I just got rid of my manager. I'm going to wrap things up." He said, "H" He talked to them. He said, "They they really just wanted to meet with you once." I said, "Okay, for you." So, I go into this meeting and I have my arms folded and I know I had a bit of an attitude. It I wasn't the bright, fuzzy, warm person that I think I know myself to be. I sat there

46:56 and I said, "Well, this is what I do. I do this, this, that, and the other blah blah blah. I think I don't know. I'm I'm done with this." And they were like, "Well, we would love to work with you." I said, "How about we give us 6 months and see? We can see." So, I had to break up with my agent and that was like painful. It was like a divorce. And then my very first audition with this new agent who I'm still with and the new managers was for Fear of the Walking Dead and also uh uh the Bos Lurman show, The Get Down. I booked both roles off of self tapes. And I realized at that point, you know, I was with an agency.

47:31 They were wonder, she was lovely and wonderful, but I guess had no access. So my tapes were not being seen. I think none of my works being seen for years.

47:39 Wow. I think that I I didn't have access. But suddenly I get series regular off of one self tape audition.

47:49 So it reinvigorated my my faith in what I had to give. And Fear of the Walking Dead really changed changed my life. It gave me um it it set me up differently in this world that helped me stay in the business and I feel like I had something to give. And now where I am in my career, this was not mapped out. But now that I'm here, it feels so beautiful, but also I know that it's so earned. It's not like a surprise like, oh, oh, someone sees my work. No, the the surprise for me is that that people they can really go back into my work and realize I've been here for a very long time working and creating and now I feel very peaceful actually. I feel that I'm being seen the way that I see myself.

48:34 I'm happy for you and I want to congratulate you on the success you're having now between the Emmy for Euphoria and your two new movies, Rustin and The Color of Purple. Congratulations.

48:46 Thank you, Terry. This has been really wonderful. Coleman Domingo stars as civil rights leader Bard Rustin in the new biopic Rustin, which is streaming on Netflix. In the new adaptation of The Color Purple, he plays Mister, the abusive husband. It opens Christmas

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Colman Domingo (2023 interview) | Fresh Air"?

In order: 0:00 Rustin, Coleman Domingo, Bayard Rustin, Euphoria; 5:00 Rustin, Bayard Rustin; 10:00 Rustin; 15:00 The Color Purple, Rustin; 20:00 Coleman Domingo, Rustin, The Color Purple, Euphoria; 25:00 Euphoria, Euphoria; 30:00 Euphoria, Euphoria, Coleman Domingo, Rustin; 40:00 Boardwalk Empire, Coleman Domingo, Fear of the Walking Dead, Rustin; 45:00 Fear of the Walking Dead, Boardwalk Empire, Coleman Domingo, Euphoria.

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

11 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Rustin, Coleman Domingo, The Color Purple, Euphoria, Euphoria, Bayard Rustin. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Colman Domingo (2023 interview) | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 49 min; the transcript is about 9,055 words in 109 timestamped sections.

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