Ebon Moss-Bachrach takes us inside 'The Bear' kitchen | Fresh Air

What this episode is about

Eban Moss-Bachrach discusses his role as Richie in the acclaimed FX series *The Bear*, exploring the character's complexities, including his struggle with grief and the impact of change brought by Carmy's return to their neighborhood sandwich shop. The conversation highlights the show's Emmy-winning success and its thematic focus on personal and professional transformation in the high-pressure setting of a kitchen.

Key takeaways

• Richie's evolution from loudmouth to heartfelt hero showcases TV's hidden talent for redemption arcs.
• With 21 Emmys, 'The Bear' proves that chaos can be both gratifying and exhausting—a culinary rollercoaster.
• Eban Moss Backrack's performance is a masterclass in portraying vulnerability beneath abrasive exteriors—feels like everyday life.
• Richie's struggles mirror real-world shifts—watching beloved neighborhoods change is a universal pain that resonates deeply.
• The show's intense atmosphere reflects real kitchens—chaotic yet collaborative, reminding us that art imitates life beautifully.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Tanya Mosley (Host) · 11 min speaking
• Eban Moss-Bachrach (Guest) · 26 min speaking
• Marie Baldonado (Guest)

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Eban Moss Backrack, The Bear, Fantastic 4, First Steps, Carmy
2. 5:00 – 10:00: The Bear, Diamond Debbie, Gillian Jacobs
3. 10:00 – 15:00: The Bear, Gillian Jacobs
4. 25:00 – 30:00: Fantastic 4, First Steps
5. 30:00 – 35:00: Dog Day Afternoon, The Bear
6. 35:00 – 36:57: Eban Moss Backrack, Fantastic 4, First Steps, The Bear

Notable quotes from "Ebon Moss-Bachrach takes us inside 'The Bear' kitchen | Fresh Air"

• This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley and our guest today is Eban Moss Backrack.

  about Eban Moss Backrack · at 0:00

• Punisher. He's also appeared in many plays and films over the decades and next month he co-stars in the next big Marvel film, the Fantastic 4, First Steps. Eban Moss Backrack…

  about Fantastic 4, First Steps · at 2:29

• Sublimation. You've seen it once, you've seen it a thousand times. I actually don't know what to do right now. That's a scene from season 3 of The Bear with IO Debbie, Jeremy…

  about Diamond Debbie · at 7:38

• Jamie Lee Curtis as the matriarch of the family. There's also Bob Odenkirk, Sarah Pollson, John Mulaney, Gillian Jacobs, and some of the rest of the regular cast members. What…

  about Gillian Jacobs · at 9:17

• Now, it was recently announced that you will be on Broadway next year in a stage play, Dog Day Afternoon. It's based on the same real life robbery that the 1975 movie Dog Day Afternoon was based on.

  about Dog Day Afternoon · at 31:53

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Eban Moss Backrack — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at 0:02
  Primary interview subject; discusses his Emmy-winning performance as Richie in FX's The Bear and upcoming work including Marvel's Fantastic Four.
• Carmy — Person · Referenced character (The Bear) · 1 mention · first at 0:37
  Central counterpart to Richie in the discussed scenes; Carmy’s return and ambition to transform the shop creates ongoing tension and character development.
  And business partner, Michael, and the return of Michael's younger brother, Carmy. Carmy left Chicago to work at the world's best restaurants, and now he wants to transform the…
• Diamond Debbie — Person · Referenced actor (cast of The Bear) · 2 mentions · first at 0:53
  Mentioned as appearing in scenes as Sydney; important to the Richie–Carmy conflict scenes played in the interview.
• Gillian Jacobs — Person · Referenced actor (guest/recurring on The Bear) · 2 mentions · first at 9:22
  Plays Richie’s ex-wife in the 'Forks' episode scene; used to explore Richie’s vulnerability and post-divorce relationship.
• Jeremy Allan White — Person · Referenced actor (cast of The Bear) · 1 mention · first at 0:49
  Identified as the actor playing Carmy in the clips; part of the key on-screen dynamic with Richie and Sydney.
  Wants to transform the neighborhood sandwich shop Richie used to run with Michael. Here's Eban Moss Backrack as Richie with Jeremy Allan White as Carie and Iowa Debbie as…

Books & papers

• Dog Day Afternoon — Book · 3 mentions · first at 31:58

Products & tech

• Fantastic 4, First Steps — Product · Upcoming film · 3 mentions · first at 2:37
  A highly anticipated Marvel film featuring a popular superhero team.

Media & podcasts

• The Bear — Media · TV series · 9 mentions · first at 0:09
  A critically acclaimed series that has won multiple Emmy awards.
  He's won two consecutive Emmy awards for playing the role of Richie in the FX series The Bear. The show, which has won 21 Emmys altogether, returns this week for its fourth season. Moss Backrack spoke to Fresh Airs and Marie Baldonado.
• Girls — Media · 1 mention · first at 2:20
  Ma's backrack has won two Emmy awards for best supporting actor in a comedy series for playing Richie. He played Desi on the TV series Girls and starred in shows including…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley and our guest today is Eban Moss Backrack. He's won two consecutive Emmy awards for playing the role of Richie in the FX series The Bear. The show, which has won 21 Emmys altogether, returns this week for its fourth season. Moss Backrack spoke to Fresh Airs and Marie Baldonado. When we first meet the character Richie in the Bear, he's loud, abrasive, and ornery. We get the sense that he's like this all the time, but he's also dealing with the recent death of his best friend and business partner, Michael, and the return of Michael's younger brother, Carmy. Carmy left Chicago to work at the world's best restaurants, and now he wants to transform the neighborhood sandwich shop Richie used to run with Michael. Here's Eban Moss Backrack as Richie with Jeremy Allan White as Carie and Iowa Debbie as Sydney from the first episode of the series. Hold on. Listen,

0:59 let's just have a conversation for a second. Whoa. Is this This is Sydney. I'm massaging today. Your wedding today? Sydney. She's helping us out today. Cousin, you ordering different mayonnaise, bro? These bananas? No. Oh, you chef. Yeah. Oh, you chef. This biff. He was using them to make a giant knuckle. It was a play on a panatonia. Would have been beautiful if you'd let me finish. Richie Jeramovich, pleasure to meet you, sweetheart. Say, sweetheart, you very calm, you're so woke. I meant nothing by it. Sydney saying, "Sweetheart's just part of our Italian heritage."

1:27 Okay, listen. I'm trying to talk to you, okay? Don't be rude and start doing a million things like, "Oh, smart. I don't have any time to take care of your mom for I got all kinds of receipts from my divorce lawyer backing up cuz all the time I'm spent trying to put your family back together cuz you too much of aer to come home." The guys are texting me. You're telling them to do all sorts of weird backwards. Don't do that, Carmen. Don't go messing with our heads and ordering different mayonnaise and hiring new bras without talking to me first. This is your brother's house. Okay. Yeah, remember I was running it fine without you. Why didn't he leave it to you then?

2:03 As the show goes on, the viewers grow to love Richie, learning all the ways that he's hurting, which include the end of his marriage and his worry about losing a relationship with his young daughter. Ma's backrack has won two Emmy awards for best supporting actor in a comedy series for playing Richie. He played Desi on the TV series Girls and starred in shows including Andor and The Punisher. He's also appeared in many plays and films over the decades and next month he co-stars in the next big Marvel film, the Fantastic 4, First Steps. Eban Moss Backrack, welcome to Fresh Air. Thanks. Thank you. I know that you're very protective of the characters that you play. So, I want you to know I mean this in the best possible way. I think that Richie is the character I've done the most dramatic 180 on maybe ever. We just heard Richie from the beginning of the series, but as the show goes on, I know I'm not alone

3:03 when I say that we're rooting for Richie. I feel that in many ways he's the heart of the show, which is a testament to the writing and to your performance. What did you know early on about the journey that Richie was going to take? I knew that this was a man who was suffering, who was finding himself in a world that he didn't really recognize anymore, who felt under threat, back against the wall, kind of, you know, uh, trying to grab anything that was could keep him afloat. And somebody in that position, I think that kind of a part can hold a lot of volatile, dangerous, spontaneous behavior. Sort of like um a lot can be justified by somebody who's fighting for their survival. And then as as as somebody who's like at a certain point in my life, you know, I also related to this guy of just seeing, you know, so many things that I loved in my neighborhood, in my city changing and seeing things,

4:07 everything becoming a bank. You know, I I really related to him in that way. I will say that The Bear can be a pretty stressful watch. You know, there's yelling often, adrenaline always, and there's, you know, this anxiety that pulses throughout a lot of the time. What is it like to film? Does it feel that pitched as you're doing it? Does it feel that like high octane? It's funny for me to think about uh like a set that would be like how the how how the scenes are like they call cut and then everyone's screaming at each other and putting out the cigarettes that were in the scene and then lighting up cigarettes that they're going to smoke in between takes. No, I mean to make something that alive feeling in a way I think you know it takes an enormous amount of rehearsal between the actors, between the actors in the camera department, the props department, our like we have such a deep and wonderful

5:03 crew that you know it really requires a lot of sensitivity and listening. I think the people involved in making the bear listen a lot more than Richie, Sydney, and Carie. So, it's a it's a very loving, fun, calm, well-run set. I want to play a scene from season three of the show. The restaurant is getting off the ground, but both Richie and Carmy are still battling. They've just had a huge fight um on the first day of service for friends and family, and they really yelled hateful things at each other. The character Richie even calls Carmi Deei, which is Carmy's mom's name.

5:45 And calling him that may be one of the biggest insults Richie could give because, you know, that mom is pretty, you know, troubled. Um, anyway, they're trying to get back on track and have the restaurant be successful, but they have different ideas about how to do that. So, here's the scene. Hey, Chef Sid, have you seen my iron? Also, when you have a sec, would you ask Chef Carmen what the do with my tables up front? Uh, Chef Sid, would you please tell Richard that I thought I would set him up for success and arrange his tables in a more efficient pattern? Is that what you did? Yes, that's what I did. It was really funny. I uh I walked in and it was so strange. It looked like the person who had done it previously had never left the city of Chicago. I can leave the city of Chicago out of it.

6:26 Zero flow. Uh, no efficiency. So, I thought I'd give you a hand. Chef Sid, would you tell Chef Carman that I can give him a hand if he wants? He wants to give me a head. He can give me I just might suggest that that the both of you stop cuz cuz I don't like this at all. Said it's fine. Chef Garman uses power phrases cuz he's a baby replicant who's not self-actualized, which is maybe why he repeatedly referred to me as a loser. Richie, I apologize. No, no, it's all good. I don't need your apology. I know how you feel now. Also, I respect your honesty and bravery from inside a locked vault.

6:56 You know what? Matter of fact, Chef Sydney, I don't remember Richard apologizing for all the he was literally screaming at me while I was in the I love you. What? You know what? Out there, that's my dojo. Gets rearranged without my approval or consent. It creates an environment of fear. And fear does not exist in that dojo. Richard, I added more two tops cuz all those four tops were nonsense. Okay. The four tops in the four flowers because Jesus Christ, that was a lot of flowers. Those flowers are apologizing and you're screaming. Am I? Yeah. Yeah, you are. Oh, yeah. That's Is it Is it rich, Richard? You want to get out of my face? Shut up.

7:33 Please. Sorry, Sid. It's just textbook sublimation. You've seen it once, you've seen it a thousand times. I actually don't know what to do right now. That's a scene from season 3 of The Bear with IO Debbie, Jeremy Allen White, and Eban Moss back. When a scene is like that with that much screaming, is it written that way or are you sort of improvising how you approach the arguing? that scene to quote um Walter in the Big Labowski. Eight-year-olds dude. Um that scene was as written. I mean, you know, at this point in in Richie's life, you know, he's trying to do some work.

8:17 He's reading some self-help books. And I, you know, I don't really have that kind of vernacular at my disposal, like, you know, all the self-actualization. And I'm sure there were some changes in words from take to take, but yeah, I wouldn't call it like improvising. I want to ask you about a few beloved episodes of the show. One is from season 2 called Fishes, which was a flashback episode going back five years before Michael's death and the changes at the restaurant. And we learn about their family, the Bersado family. The episode takes place on Christmas. It's a Christmas family dinner. And for those of us who grew up in families where there's a lot of yelling, friction, and also alcoholism, this episode is so good, but it can be triggering. Um, and I know you say, you know, your favorite episodes of The Bear take place with the family of the restaurant, the staff that works there. But this episode has this

9:14 impressive group of guest actors like Jamie Lee Curtis as the matriarch of the family. There's also Bob Odenkirk, Sarah Pollson, John Mulaney, Gillian Jacobs, and some of the rest of the regular cast members. What was it like filming this episode? Was it as frenetic to film as it was to watch? Yeah, we shot this over two days. It was different. All of a sudden, there was SUVs on set and the and the food was a lot better. Uh, that was kind of different. I think that they they rolled out the red carpet a little bit for for all of our esteemed guest stars that that that week. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because, you know, these were actors that, you know, were they're so highowered and we all know their work so well, but then they were guests uh on our set.

10:05 And one thing I've noticed over the, you know, the years that I've done this is like no matter how experienced you are and how many sets you've walked on to, it is always a little bit nervous and you feel a little bit shy or I feel a little bit shy every time I walk onto a new set. And so I was sort of observing these incredibly talented actors go experience that and I was I don't know I think at least for my part I was very empathetic and trying to make everybody feel at home and uh welcome. There's an episode that's focused on Richie's character called Forks and it's great and it sort of marks a transition for Richie where he seems to find new purpose. Um, it's season two. They're trying to open the restaurant. And Carie has sent your character Richie to train at another restaurant, one that's called one of the best restaurants in the world. I've read that you found filming this episode to be lonely. It's a

11:02 quieter episode and you're really the only member of the regular cast in it. What was it like filming this one? Yeah, I I mean, I found it lonely in a way. Um, I thought the lighting was cold. that had a very different color to it than the rest of our episodes. There's usually a real warmth um in the bear and this one felt kind of blue and austere. Um almost like a like an operating room. Mhm. I mean, I really love the people I work with and my favorite scenes to shoot, like we said, are like the group scenes where, you know, I'm talking with with Liza and and Lionel and Edwin and everyone's sort of talking over each other and there's just this this the shorthand and here I was without any of those kind of hallmarks of the of the experience that I'd grown to love and was um looked forward to and um I was working with all new actors. I remember the the layout of this restaurant was so confusing. I

12:02 could never find what like where the bathroom was or where my little ch I carved out some little I put my chair in like some corner where I could sort of be alone and look at my lines and think about scenes and stuff and I could never find my way back to it. I was just confused. I think most of the time I think that comes out in the episode actually that darkness and that confusion. Yeah. I mean, it's an episode that I don't I've seen it once kind of through, you know, like squinting eyes behind hands. Just it's just a lot of me for me to take in, you know, to be honest. One thing that's heartbreaking about Richie is how he mourns the end of his marriage. And because of flashbacks, we know that it seems like on the timeline, as recently as 5 years ago, Richie and his wife were together. They were about to have a baby and they were very much together. But by the time we meet Richie 5 years later, his marriage

12:57 is over and his ex-wife is with someone else. And I want to play a scene from that episode forks. Richie is working at the Michelin Star restaurant for that week. Um, he's taking a break and gets a phone call from his ex-wife, played by Gillian Jacobs. Hey. Hey. How are you? I'm uh I'm great. I'm great. You know what's going on? Is Eva okay? No, she's great. She's totally great. Um yeah. Oh, yo. Uh Jimmy, um I got those Taylor Swift ticks. You did? Yeah, cuz I'm She's going to be so excited. I know, right? It's incredible. Actually, I got three if you want to come. You know, you don't have to. No, no, no. It's I That's so sweet. That's so sweet. Um, I I just uh I know you're really busy, so I wanted to just tell you something.

13:55 Um, and it's a little bit hard to say. Okay. Are you all right? I'm fine. Yeah, I'm fine. Uh, I just want you to hear it from me. Um, uh, what? Um, Frank proposed to me. What' you say? I said yes. He's like a really good guy. That's great, Tiff. Thank you. I And I want you to know that nothing's going to change between us. That's awesome. you know, um, and I love you. That's a scene from season two of The Bear. Will we learn more about what happened to their marriage in that relatively short period of time? Yeah, that scene. Bear a comedy. Um, yeah, brutal. Gillian Jacob, such a such a great actress. I love working with her.

15:02 Unfortunately, most of our scenes are phone calls because they're they don't have much of a relationship anymore. Actually, I do think there's a lot of tenderness there and she she genuinely loves them. Um, do we learn more about what happened with them? We spend more time with them together as parents, as exes in terms of like a literal sense of like a flashback of the two of them. That's not something that we've shot. Do you do work to fill in what might have happened to them? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I spent a lot of time kind of daydreaming and thinking about these things and filling in the blanks. And these are um these are thoughts and fantasies and ideas that I will never share. Understood.

15:52 Um I think one thing that makes viewers love Richie is the way that he is with his daughter. even though he's divorced, he's so devoted to her and doing the right thing by her and trying to be a good dad. Um, besides having what seems like a tough upbringing where he sort of, you know, so much so that he becomes part of the family that own the restaurant. Um, you have two daughters and I think that being a parent of girls can be very a very specific parenting experience. What did you want to make sure that you brought to Richie as a father?

16:28 I mean some of the things that are that are challenging for him and making it difficult for him to navigate his way through the world like loyalty, honesty in a way you know so these things I think are sometimes hindrances and sometimes you know they're really great qualities and I wanted I wanted to see the kind of converse of some of these things in in his relationship with his daughter. Obviously, he, you know, he's a dad that would do anything for his daughter like so many parents, like most parents, I would say. And then he's really into her world and where he doesn't listen as well on the outside with her. He I his time with her is so limited that it's so valuable and I think each minute is something that he really invests himself and tries to be present in a way that he's not when he's at the restaurant.

17:22 I also I don't know. I just enjoy doing scenes with that little actress so much. I think she's so great and we um I don't know, she's so fascinating. She's such a she's such an eccentric young girl. There's a scene later in that episode where Richie has completely won everyone over at the fancy restaurant. Um he's really getting it and getting the value of his work and he's driving home singing along to the Taylor Swift song Love Story. And it's this great triumphant moment for Richie. How did that moment come about? Like, was that always the song? I read you weren't necessarily a Swifty before you shot this. Um, it's just such a great moment.

18:06 Yeah, it is a great moment. I'm not going to comment about my Swiftiness or non-swiftiness, but I it's it's that's a minefield either way. It's just Sorry. Doesn't I'm sorry. Yeah. I I can't believe I did that to you. Yeah. Please. Please. Come on. But um I think that scene is a great scene and I it's so nice to spend just a few minutes like singing something loudly and celebrating and and having exuberance and and and and you know driving and and singing along with a song that you love loudly. I mean, that's such a visceral, great kind of release. Something that we don't see that much, I think, in movies and TV shows or certainly certainly stuff that I'm not being asked to do all that much. Um, so yeah, I really enjoyed that evening. I love those speed bumps.

19:04 I love the squeaks, the squeak of the suspension in the car. Um, but that was always written with that scene. I'm sure it was a process finding her, tracking her down, getting permission to use the song, but I don't really know about the the details of that process. Well, there's something perfect about that song cuz it's like a triumphant young love story, which seems like an echo to Richie's story. And then also just that he got her Taylor Swift tickets. That's like I I mean that's like dad of the year material. So, I feel like it just wraps it all together. And then also as you're driving, you're still cursing as you're driving. The character Richie is still cursing at other drivers, which I think is also pretty Richy. Yeah. And you what you couldn't see is all these these Arby's, these empty Arby's cops in the back seat just jumping up with every kind of speed bump, the the chaos within

20:01 the car. One of the first film roles you had was in the Wes Anderson film, The Royal Tenn. You've played a bellboy at the hotel where Royal Tenbound played by Gene Hackman where he lives. Here's a little bit of that scene or all of that scene. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There's a call for you, Mr. Tenbound. Who is it, Frederick? A Mr. Pagod. That's you in the royal ten. Um, what was it like being in this film? Was it one of the first times you were on a set? And if that's true, what do you remember about it? I rewatched that movie the other day. Oh, with um one of my kids and um God, it's such a good movie. Yes. Um I'm so happy to be part of it and even in this tiny tiny little way. Um and I think finally enough time has gone by where I was like, you know what, I'm pretty good at Frederick the Bellho. I'm okay. I'm okay. Um it was the second time I was on a set. Probably my first time in such a fancy hotel.

21:04 Um, I remember mostly Wes Anderson's attention to detail. Him coming down like a tailor and sort of adjusting the hem of my pants, fixing my hair, adjusting my little pillbox hat. I mean, I got that part because I had a like quite a good head of hair. Yeah. At the time you had kind of curly hair that comes out of the pill box sort of at the bottom. Yeah, exactly. It kind of explodes. It's like a upside down volcano or something. Well, one of your breakout roles was in the TV show Girls. You started out as a guest star who is only going to be in a few episodes, but then became a series regular. When viewers meet you, you're auditioning for a Broadway play and you meet the character Adam, who's played by Adam Driver, who's also auditioning and just starting out. And by the way, Desi is a successful actor. you know, he auditioned for a Broadway play and he got the role. Um, how did you see Desi?

22:07 I saw him as a little bit of a con man. Really well put together on the outside, but a lot of crisis and chaos going on internally, a bit of a searcher. I feel like he was not committed necessarily to acting. He was a musician. I'm sure he painted and a lot of maybe like clothing that if I'm being like really not charitable like maybe pre-distressed Yeah. jeans. Yeah. A lot of pre-distressed denim. Yeah. Um um but also, you know, somebody that felt very deeply, loved deeply. Um a baby. Yeah. A little bit. I want to play a scene from Girls here. Desi is a regular cast member and is now with the character Marne. They started out as a musical duo with some success.

23:04 Eventually, Marne and Desi get married. Um, but they're also this musical duo, too. Um, in this scene, they're arguing about what music to use in their upcoming showcase for a record label, which is important to their future career as musicians. Here's the Here's the scene. You know what? We should open our showcase with this song. We only get two songs for the showcase. Yes, we get an opener and a closer, and this should be our opener. Yeah. I mean, this is a great song. Thank you. But this is not one of our top two. What do you like better?

23:41 Rattlesnake Cowgirl, Heart for Sale, Wo Wong from Marcus Garvey, Waka Blues, Coappelli Shelly. I mean, that's top six right there. M. Yeah, I know. I just feel like it's our chance to show some range. Okay. See what I think about the showcase. We put our best foot forward. Agreed. And if half of our set is a syrupy love song, that's a total mislead, babe. You know, but we sing love songs. Not really. We sing like modern American folk with an indie edge. I tell people that we're like she and him, but with actual romance.

24:13 But we're nothing like she and him. We're not. Whoa. You're blowing my mind right now, Marne. We are not. like she and him. My god, we are not Are you kidding me right now? You're freaking me out. We are nothing like she and him. Okay, we are nothing like that band. How can we have completely different takes on the same band that we were both in? That is bizarre to me. I'm starting to wonder if maybe you don't like Closeup because I wrote it instead of you. No, I like this song. Are you sure? I loved this song. Okay, what do you mean loved this song? And then you told me that you writing she and him songs and now like my whole I got to do a heavy rethink here. How about we talk about the partnership that I thought we were in whereas recently No, recently it's just been me writing while you tinker with your motorcycle. I'm That's my That's my mode of transportation, Marty. That is my mode of transportation. That doesn't

25:02 change anything. That's how I get That's weak, dude. That's my mode of transportation. That's a scene from Girls. Did you watch Girls at the time when it was airing? I didn't. No, I watched a little bit of it the first season, but I also was I was like so jealous that I wasn't I really wanted to be a part of it. So, it was complicated for me to watch it. It was filming right there. It was filming like right by you. Yeah, exactly. I would see it walk by. Um and then once I was working on it, I wouldn't watch it much just because I didn't want it to sort of affect the way I was going to continue to work on it, you know? I I didn't want it to make me self-conscious. What do you think of that scene? Oh my god, that scene is that um that list of songs is really really funny.

25:53 Next month, you truly enter your Marvel era. You've been in the Marvel universe before, but you're becoming a main character in the new movie, The Fantastic 4, First Steps. You play the character Ben Grim, who develops mutant supernatural powers and becomes the thing. this first movie is coming out and then you'll reprise your role in the two new upcoming Avenger films. So, you're definitely, you know, in for more than one movie. What was it like being in this film? Yeah, very different kind of part for me. I guess the biggest departure would be that it's it's motion capture, performance capture.

26:35 So, I wear these groovy looking pajama kind of tights and top and then I have wires strapped to various points of my body. And then I have a helmet with kind of GoPro looking cameras kind of on a little extended gimbals right in right in front of my nose to sort of capture my my eyes and my mouth and my facial expressions. And where are you do what space are you in when you're doing this? I'm in on the set, you know, and um I haven't I I haven't seen the movie yet, but one thing I do know is that the you know, the art department and the and our production design is really spectacular.

27:15 So we So there were really pretty incredible set builds like things that I had never seen before that like reminded me of like old style like DW Griffith kind of like movie making huge big sprawling sets of New York and Time Square and and the Lower East Side incredible mid-century modern um house that that the Fantastic 4 live in. So, I'm just on all these really cool sets and very much involved as I would be, you know, I'm just in there with the with the other people in the scene and I'm interacting with them and they're in they're in costumes and I'm just sort of in this other strange techy kind of uh you know placeholder for will then be built around me animated you know this much bigger orange rock guy. Can you describe your character Ben Grim who is the thing? I'm not sure how much of the original story from the comic book series and from other movies are still part of this character.

28:18 You know, people feel so strongly Yes. about about this. You can't stray too far from the path. Uh you got to keep it pretty cannon. Ben is from the Lower East Side. He's from Yansy Street, which is maybe like a little bit like the Lansancy Street maybe. And he's a school friend of Reed Richards. He's a football player. He's a wrestler. He becomes a star pilot. Really amazing pilot. And Reed is this genius scientist that convinces Ben and his wife Sue and her brother to go up and to steal the ship and go into outer space. And there's like a storm, some kind of space storm, and these gamma rays penetrate the ship and they all return changed forever. Ben is more changed because he has physically been altered. He has this new rock kind of dermis, which is so he looks like a like a monster and he doesn't change back and forth like the Hulk or anything. That's just how he is for the rest of his life with a couple

29:23 of exceptions. Oh, that's right. Yeah, your character stays as a rock. Yeah, that's really key to his psyche, I think. I haven't seen the Fantastic Four yet, but I like that you're playing another character that has this rock exterior. In this case, literally, he's made of rock. Um, you've said that this acting compared to your other roles, it's almost like another job. I was thinking that you show so much emotion through your face and through your physicality. Um, what did you mean that it's almost a different kind of job?

29:55 What are other ways that it's different? I would think about it a lot in two ways. and my over the course of a day like my brain would go back and forth. on one speed was that I was just trying to imbue this character with as much humanity as I could because I felt like I had to in some ways fight through all of this animation and because I was interested in I I I think it kind of was similar to probably Ben's experience on a day where he knows how he seems and he knows he looks like this horrible monster and so he's making a concerted effort to bring his humanity through to to make people feel okay to make people feel less to make people be less mean towards him to sort of undercut his external appearance. So I had that that that was going in one way while simultaneously I was had all this physical freedom and that in many ways this technology and this animation was like like a like a a mask and I had

30:56 I wasn't confined to my body and my physical appearance the way that I am for any other part I've ever done. So there was things I could do with movement, with heaviness, and the way he would his huge hands, huge feet, the way he would interact with things. So it that became um a much more imaginative fantasy sort of almost like how I would play Makebelie when I was a kid, you know. So you are thinking about movement in a different way. Yeah. Well, certainly. I mean, I I had to. He can't couldn't really move the way that I could move. I mean, he's very very heavy. He weighs thousands of pounds.

31:36 Um, at the same time, he's very nimble, but I mean, I'm a kind of uncoordinated, lanky, sort of I don't know, wet rubber band or something. So, he's he's he's much heavier, grounded dude. Now, it was recently announced that you will be on Broadway next year in a stage play, Dog Day Afternoon. It's based on the same real life robbery that the 1975 movie Dog Day Afternoon was based on. You star with John Berthal um who is someone you co-star with in The Bear. You were also on the show The Punisher with him and I think you've done plays together. I actually read that you recommended him for the part of Michael on the Bear. Is that true? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I got John that job. Mhm. So he got me this dog day afternoon gig. So now now we're even Well, so what and you know what was it about him that you thought would be good for Michael who's the best friend and you know the brother who passed away who committed suicide

32:44 and we don't really see correct me if I'm wrong but we don't really see him at all in the first season until maybe just the very end of the season in a flashback. Is that I think that's am I remembering that correctly? I think something like that. And in my mind when I were reading the I was reading the scripts, I kind of felt like we would never see him. And I thought that that was probably the way to play it because he's so talked about. He's this spectre sort of informing everything. And I just thought it would be disappointing or maybe I just like that idea of let everybody in the in the audience let them have their own idea of who this person is who's larger than life. Mhm. And so when Chris Store, our showrunner, was asking me if I thought if I had any ideas for who could be play Michael Bado, I was like I was like, I don't think we should ever see him. I just think that will just diminish cuz anything.

33:42 And then at one point I did. I was like, you know what? Actually, John is such a larger than-l life magnetic charismatic person. I was like, you know what? What would you think about uh John Bernthal? And I I suspect that Chris all along was sort of encouraging me to reach out to John. Uh I think I'm pretty sure that he all along this was he was just waiting for me to come to this um realization when I think John John's, you know, terrific, really really great in this part and also like one of the few actors that could fill the the shoes of this guy.

34:18 What is your connection to the story and the film Dog Day Afternoon? Because you'll be playing the role of Sell, which was originated by the actor John Cassal, who appeared in only five movies before passing away too young, but the five movies were The Godfather, The Conversation, Godfather Part Two, Dog Day Afternoon, and The Deer Hunter. He was also a theater actor, like an actor's actor. I was wondering if a young Evan Moss backrackck dreamed of having an acting career like John Kazal. Oh, 100%. I mean, what a gift. What an incredible gift he was. Um, yeah, The Conversation's like probably my favorite movie. Um, I mean, it's a tragedy that we that that he died so young, but it is Yeah, in his in his short time here. Oh my gosh, what a force.

35:08 So, yeah, I do feel um you know, it's like I'll try to do my best to to to honor this guy, but we're going to make it a bit a bit different. Make it something else. Yeah. So, it's based on the same source material, which was this true story of a bank robbery that happened in New York and that became the movie, but the playwright is going back to that original material, too. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on in that robbery and before that robbery that's not in the movie that's really interesting that we're digging into.

35:38 There's a lot there. When you announce something like that, a Broadway show that you're going to do next year, what is the process of preparing? Um, because I'm sure you're doing other things too, but is it just that that's sort of when it fits into your schedule or do you do things in the year leadup or both? My process right now is to pretend that it's not happening for as long as possible and to delay delay delay. But um yeah, I don't know. I'm very very very excited to do this thing and to spend a few months with my dear friend John. And I'm sure it'll be a wonderful cast. And I like nothing more than like working on new American plays. It's kind of my favorite thing to do to be in that rehearsal room with when the writer's there, the writer's alive, they're there. It's a work in progress.

36:24 It's a deep deep collaboration between writer, director, drama tur and the whole cast. It's like everyone's getting their hands dirty. Feels very alive and exciting and it's been a long time since I've done that. Eban Moss Backrack, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Eban Moss Backrack speaking with fresh airs and Marie Baldonado. His film, The Fantastic 4, First Steps, comes out next month, and season 4 of The Bear premieres tonight. This is Fresh Air.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Ebon Moss-Bachrach takes us inside 'The Bear' kitchen | Fresh Air"?

Tanya Mosley (Host), Eban Moss-Bachrach (Guest), Marie Baldonado (Guest).

What is "Ebon Moss-Bachrach takes us inside 'The Bear' kitchen | Fresh Air" about?

Eban Moss-Bachrach discusses his role as Richie in the acclaimed FX series *The Bear*, exploring the character's complexities, including his struggle with grief and the impact of change brought by Carmy's return to their neighborhood sandwich shop. The conversation highlights the show's Emmy-winning success and its thematic focus on personal and professional transformation in the high-pressure…

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

9 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Eban Moss Backrack, The Bear, Fantastic 4, First Steps, Carmy, Girls, Dog Day Afternoon. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Ebon Moss-Bachrach takes us inside 'The Bear' kitchen | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 37 min; the transcript is about 6,447 words in 45 timestamped sections.

More from Fresh Air

• All analyzed episodes
• Books mentioned on Fresh Air
• People mentioned on Fresh Air
• Topics mentioned on Fresh Air