Remembering Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys (1988 interview) | Fresh Air

What this episode is about

Brian Wilson, the creative mastermind behind The Beach Boys, reflects on his tumultuous journey through mental health challenges and personal struggles, including a nervous breakdown and years of isolation. Under the controversial care of psychologist Dr. Eugene Landy, Wilson experienced a remarkable physical transformation and returned to music, culminating in the release of his first solo album, showcasing his songwriting and production talents.

Key takeaways

• Brian Wilson: the tragic genius whose solo journey proves creativity doesn’t always follow a straight line.
• From beach vibes to therapy: Brian Wilson's transformation shows that healing can fuel artistic rebirth.
• A solo album after 25 years? Talk about a courageous leap from group dynamics to a one-man band!
• Despite storms of addiction, Wilson’s return reminds us: even musical legends can hit refresh on life.
• Good vibrations indeed! Sometimes separation from the past is the key to finding your unique voice.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Brian Wilson (Guest) · 19 min speaking
• Terry Gross (Host) · 3 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Dr. Eugene Landy, Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Catch a Wave, Surfent
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Pet Sounds, Fun, Fun, Fun, I Just Wasn't Made for These Times
4. 20:00 – 21:55: Hallelujah

Notable quotes from "Remembering Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys (1988 interview) | Fresh Air"

• And the trauma of having been abused by his father as a child contributed to Wilson's failed mental health. For the past few years, Wilson has been under the almost constant…

  about Dr. Eugene Landy · at 0:37

• About and about a month later, we were on the Los Angeles charts on the LA the Los Angeles charts with Surfent, you know. you were actually afraid of Woody yourself, right? Oh…

  about Surfent · at 6:15

• Play the role of surfers. We sang about surf song, surf and girls, but we did not whatever. I want to play one of your early surf records. This is What song is that? This is Catch a Wave. Catch a Wave. Oh, yeah.

  about Catch a Wave · at 7:05

• Don't want to die. So, I'm going to keep going real fast. Okay. Brian Wilson is my guest. when you were writing songs like fun, fun. Yeah. Did you think of yourself as having a…

  about Fun, Fun, Fun · at 10:30

• Thank you. Brian Wilson has been my guest. And here's a selection from his new solo album, his first solo album, Brian Wilson.

  about Hallelujah · at 20:59

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Dr. Eugene Landy — Person · Referenced expert / controversial caretaker · 1 mention · first at 0:47
  Presented as Wilson’s psychologist and de facto manager/producer figure; discussed in depth due to alleged ethical violations and his influence over Wilson’s health and career decisions.

Books & papers

• Pet Sounds — Book · 5 mentions · first at 0:24
  Some of his best work was still ahead of him, like the album Pet Sounds and the record Good Vibrations. But that was followed by a period where he did no work at all. For about two years, he didn't even leave the house. His weight.
• Good Vibrations — Book · 1 mention · first at 0:24
  Some of his best work was still ahead of him, like the album Pet Sounds and the record Good Vibrations. But that was followed by a period where he did no work at all. For about two years, he didn't even leave the house. His weight.
• Catch a Wave — Book · 3 mentions · first at 7:17
• Surfent — Book · 1 mention · first at 6:19
• Fun, Fun, Fun — Book · 1 mention · first at 10:34
• I Just Wasn't Made for These Times — Book · 1 mention · first at 11:45
  Yes. And on Pet Sounds, for instance, you have a wonderful song. I I wasn't made for these times. Oh, yeah.
• Hallelujah — Book · 1 mention · first at 21:22

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Brian Wilson is one of the geniuses of rock and roll, and he's come real close to being one of its casualties. He was the creative force of the Beach Boys as their songwriter, producer, and lead singer. He wrote surf songs, car songs, songs about girls, and heartfelt melancholy ballads. In 1964, Brian Wilson had his first nervous breakdown and retired from performing, but continued to write, record, and produce. Some of his best work was still ahead of him, like the album Pet Sounds and the record Good Vibrations. But that was followed by a period where he did no work at all. For about two years, he didn't even leave the house. His weight ballooned to about 300 lb. It was assumed that his overindulgence in drugs and the trauma of having been abused by his father as a child contributed to Wilson's failed mental health. For the past few years, Wilson has been under the almost constant care of his

0:47 psychologist, Dr. Eugene Landy. Landy has been alternately described as a miracle worker and a Svengalley. Dr. Landy is currently under investigation by the board of medical quality assurance, a California state watchdog group. He's accused of exploiting his relationship with Wilson by serving as business manager, executive producer, and co-ongwriter, while also serving as his therapist. He's charged with prescribing drugs, although he is not an MD, and he's charged with sexually abusing one of his female patients. But under Ly's care, Wilson has lost over a 100 pounds and follows a fitness regimen, including daily workouts. And Wilson credits Landy with his return to music, to the recording studio, and to the public eye. Brian Wilson's new record is his first solo production away from the Beach Boys. He produced it, wrote the songs, plays many of the instruments, sings lead, and sings most

1:37 of the backup voices. How did you start writing songs again? How did you get back into it? Well, it's not a real long story. It's just that Jean Landy, you know, who is my executive producer and my collaborator, he told me that he thought maybe I needed to put a new album out under my name, the first time ever, like a solo first time ever album, you know, that I've ever done that. And I told him at first I said, "Well, I don't know. I think I'm I'm a Beach Boy for life and I'm kind of like I'm I'm sort of into the Beach Boys." And I said, "Well, I'll think about it." A couple days later And a couple days later, I told him, "Okay, Jean, I guess I guess you're right. I think I should do a solo album." And I said, "But I'll do it at my pace, you know." So, we did it at my pace. We went slow. We took weeks to get one thing, you know, but it took us a year to get the whole album.

2:22 Was getting away from the Beach Boys and doing a solo album something that you personally wanted to do for a long time? Yes. Yes. That's something I really wanted to do very badly. Why? Getting away from the Beach Boys? Yeah. because I had I I had about a 25 year 24 year uh 25 year uh standing with them, you know, and it was like a stint, a long stint, you know, of work and and not getting along and with the guys and then getting along with them and then and then not getting along with them. You know what I mean? Um now on the new album, you play most of the instruments. You you record most of the voices yourself. Um when you write a song, do you hear all the harmonies in your head as you write it?

2:58 All the vocal harmonies? Yeah, I do. I hear most of them in my head as I write them. Uh we go we used to go do the whole group at once, you know, the Beach Boy group. We'd all do the we do all the voices in one thing on one microphone, you know, but uh well sometimes we we use two and three microphones depending on how we wanted it to sound. But so we did these we did we did these, you know, and then and then uh but but but with my solo album, it's like it's a uh it's a venture into one at a time land, you know what I mean? You go one at a time, you know? You do them one at a time. One at a time. Yeah. One voice at a time.

3:32 Yeah. Um, how would you teach the harmonies to the Beach Boys when you were working with them? When I worked with the Beach Boys, I I taught them uh one at a time also, you know, and and then we all would rehearse as a group and then we put it on tape and we go to the microphone and put it on tape. So, you'd sing the part to each of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, how do you think the Beach Boys feel about you going solo? Do they mind? No, I don't think so. I don't think the Beach Boys mind at all. No, I think they're happy. They can We had a corporation We had a corporation meeting in in Chicago three weeks ago and the guys a couple and a couple and Al and Carl both congratulated me on the success of my album. You know, it I have to say it really feels good to have you back recording again to listen to new music of yours and I was wondering how it feels to be back. Well, what it feels like to be back is kind of exciting.

4:20 It's an exciting venture, you know. Uh I I I I added up the odds. What are my odds to get on the charts with my new album? And I got I got on the charts, you know. I mean, uh, even when the odds are against you, you can do something, you know, incredible. You know, you've said that your early sound was influenced by the four freshmen. Yeah. Yeah. Now, a lot of people would have thought of the four freshmen as being a really square group in their harmonies. What did you really like about them? What did I like? I liked uh the the way they blended their voices, you know, the sound they made as they blended their voices. I liked I thought they were great. I didn't see anything wrong with the far freshman at all. What else did you listen to when you were young? Uh, I listened to um Rosemary Clooney and uh the four freshmen and just different people, you know. How did you start singing in falsetto and how did you

5:08 figure out that you could have a falsetto voice? Well, because I used to practice my the freshman uh with the high voice and the fresh the poor freshman and his name was Bob Flanigan and I practice along with him. Whenever I'd hear freshman songs, I'd sing along with the high note, you know. And uh I got into a habit of singing high. And when the Beach Boys, then when the Beach Boys came along, uh I just took that that habit of mine, that that habit, bad or good, just a habit of singing high, you know. So then I started saying, "Hey, I sound like a girl up here." So I got into it. I got into it, you know. Um the first songs that you wrote Yeah. and recorded were surf songs. Now, you'd never surfed yourself, right? What was the inspiration for for writing surfing songs? My inspiration for writing surfing songs goes back to my brother Dennis who drowned of course in 1983 in December of 1983. Uh he um he asked me

6:04 if I would be interested in writing a song about surfing. Hold it. Excuse me. I had a yawn. And I said, "Sure, I'll try it." And I tried it. And about and about a month later, we were on the Los Angeles charts on the LA the Los Angeles charts with Surfent, you know. Um, you were actually afraid of Woody yourself, right? Oh, yeah. I have a an aversion to water. I don't know what it is. I don't know exactly what it is. Could be uh could be that I think I saw somebody drown in a pool once. This guy drowned and and I saw the ambulance come get him at the, you know, and I was it kind of scared me to death and I think that turned me out to water. Do you know how to swim? Do I know how to swim? Oh, yeah. I swim all the time.

6:47 Okay. In Los Angeles, in Malibu, where I live, I go swimming all the time. So, you're not that afraid of water? No. No. Okay. But I still have a little bit of a fear of it, especially the ocean. Did you have to pretend like you were a surfer when the Beach Boys first got started? No, not at all. Mm- We didn't We didn't play the role of surfers. We sang about surf song, surf and girls, but we did not uh you know, you know, whatever. I want to play one of your early surf records. This is What song is that? This is Catch a Wave. Catch a Wave. Oh, yeah.

7:19 It's the production on this is is just terrific. There's a there's a harp. There's an organ. Uh great touches on it. Just would just say a little bit about how you produced this record. Catch a Wave. Yeah. Yeah. That was u Michael and I wanted to do something where we would display the high voice, the medium voice, and the bass voice all in one record, you know, different at different intervals, you know what I mean? Not all at once sometimes, but separate from each other, you know, and uh it starts that don't be afraid to try to grade. That's the bass part, right?

7:52 Was my voice. And I'm like, and he was in the middle, too. So, he sang bass and middle and I sang high. What about the instrumentation? The instrumentation was uh just uh two guitars, a piano, drums, and a harp and stuff like that. Okay, let's hear it. Catch a wave. Catch a wave. And you're sitting on top of the world. Don't be afraid to drive the greatest around. Catch away. Catch away. Those who don't just have to put it down. You paddle out, turn around, and raise. And baby, that's all there is to the coastline praise. You got to catch a wave and you're sitting on top of the world.

8:45 I don't know if you listen to your old records very much, but what goes through your mind when you hear that? Uh, well, a lot of stuff. When I hear old records, it just flutters through my mind. Uh, you mean in in my in as far as my opinion of what it sounds like or my sentimentality to it? Both. Well, I feel at first I feel more artistically aware than sentimental. You know, my first reaction is usually an artistic like, oh, I think I think my voice flatted. I wish I had just taken a few more minutes to get it right in the studio. You know, you know, young and impulsive, right?

9:11 Young young and restless. Want to get through, want to get out here, want to go swimming, want to go to a movie, you know. So, uh, that's how it used to happen to me. And then and then the the the sentimental value would creep in and I'd think, "Oh gosh, you know, how could I have made a record that great?" You know, and that kind of thing crosses my mind, too. So, there's artistic criticism, self-criticism, and then there's sentimentality. Those two ingredients go into that. What about thinking about thinking back to how you felt at the time you recorded it? Oh, well, I the way I felt, you mean? Well, it was kind of like when I was in my 20s, early 20s, I was full of energy, right? I mean, I I darted around. I could I could do anything. I could produce a record. I could go to a movie.

9:51 I could go running. I could do anything. You know what I mean? When I was in my early 20s, I was a real bombader. I mean, I was really a hustler, you know? And now, and now, uh, I've slowed down a little bit, but but because I've been exercising so much lately, I'm getting back my I'm getting my second win in life, you know what I mean? It's not like being 22 again or 24, but it's still it's still a it's it's odd. You know, you go through these trips in your life where when you're How old are you? Uh, 37. 37. I always have to think.

10:19 Gosh. I mean, can you remember what it's like to be 22? It's just like a little bit. You can sort of remember it, but like when you get a little older, you sort of slow down a little bit, right? You know, and that's the one thing I don't want to do is slow down because I don't want to die. So, I'm going to keep going real fast. Okay. Brian Wilson is my guest. Um, when you were writing songs like fun, fun fun. Yeah. Did you think of yourself as having a lot of fun? Uh, well, Mike came up with those words, but yes, I did think of myself as having fun fun fun. He mostly because he wrote those lyrics. He wrote that that part of the lyrics. Okay. Now, you also wrote a lot of really melancholy songs.

10:52 Yes. And uh on Pet Sounds, for instance, you have a wonderful song. Uh I I I I wasn't made for these times. Oh, yeah. And I was wondering if you were ever felt reluctant to expose that part of yourself to your listeners. You touch. Mhm. Well, especially songs like that, those those feeling out of place type songs. Yeah. I did that because lyrically I did feel kind of like I felt like a little Bob Dylan, you know, Bob Dylan was a message man with lyrics too, you know, and I kind of was a spokesman for the Beach Boys. I turn I had turned into a legitimate artist on my own right in my own right. And it was a very new kind of a newfound power for me, right?

11:30 Have you ever experienced a newfound power, a mental power? You say, "Well, wait a minute, man. I'm way smarter than I used to be." You know, like some kind of an awareness or something, you know, that kind of thing goes on a lot in my life. Um, when you wrote I just wasn't made for these times. Yeah. Was that how you were feeling? When I wrote that, it was like it was like a thing of um I really was feeling that way. Yes, I was. Because I felt that I was being rejected by some of my friends, you know, for what? Who knows? You know, just I just felt a rejection from the public, you know. I can't explain it, you know, anymore now.

12:06 It was it was a very super personal thing. It was a personal thing that I cannot really go into because it's too deep, you know. Well, I want to play some of that song. And this is this is from your 1966 album Pet Sounds, which uh is really one of the legendary albums in Yes. in the history of in history of rock and roll. Yeah. And uh do you want to say anything else about what you were feeling when you wrote this? Sure. I felt I had prayer sessions prayer sessions with my brother Carl and we both prayed for people's uh safety and well-being. And we made this album with w with with with with the fact that love was going to be the predominant theme in the album with of course artistic and entertaining kind of music going on at the same time. But the love came from the voices that we did. And we just got into a little little we got into a little trip where we were going to bring some spiritual love to the world, you

12:54 know, and we really did, you know, we actually did because we wanted to in our souls, you know, we both felt the calling, you know, so why not pray for this album and nurture it along and pray and have prayer sessions, you know. So it was very religious. It was a religious experience like taking uh some people think that psychedelic drugs are a religious experience, you know, and that's how I felt about um of course about Pet Sounds. Okay. Okay. So, from Pet Sounds, this is Brian Wilson's I just Wasn't Made for the These Times. I think

13:29 sometimes I put my heart and soul into I guess I just made these when you were recording the record that we just heard an excerpt of Pet Sounds. I think that was during a period when you were doing a lot of drugs. Yes, I was. How did the drugs affect your music? Both in in the the good ways and the bad ways that that are Well, the bad way is there's no way drugs can influence music in a bad way. That's a mis mis that's a misnomer or it's not no way it can drugs can influence music in a bad way. No, no music I don't understand. Unless you feel that a somebody would make uh unless you call heavy metal a very negative statement, you know, a very obtrus a very uh um unartic destructive kind of a music that would provoke those kind of feelings, you know. Uh no, actually it uh it's it's a matter of learning from these drugs, you know. You can go on drugs and make music, yes, on drugs, you know, but

14:52 you're much better to make music off of drugs because you can see the overall picture better. When you make music on drugs, you're too concerned with this line or that line or that voice or this and that, you know, other than just being behind it all the way behind it and uh and putting putting together music from from from a higher standpoint than drugs can take you. So, are you saying that you'd use drugs for inspiration, but when you actually recorded, you try to not be high? Is that Oh, no. No high in the studio. No.

15:14 Uhhuh. Okay. Um, how did the drugs have a bad effect on you? Well, they expose me to my weaknesses, you know, to the to the things in my life that I'm weak weak on, you know, and it's painful to have to sit there and accept your limitations in life, you know what I mean? It's but it's okay. It's okay at the same time, you know. It's okay to go through those changes. Everybody goes through them. Everybody's going to always go through them. You know, you went through a period of time where you barely left the house and didn't do much re recording or or or producing at all. What did you do during that time? What was life like? I um I uh I took a lot of drugs. I kept taking more and more drugs to get away from the the rattly bang nerve-wracking aspects of life, you know. I kept telling myself, "Turn it down, somebody.

15:58 Turn it down." You know, that's like a way of saying, "Hey, cool it." You know, it's like, "Turn it down. It's too loud." You know, and I got I got through I went through some of that and uh you know, like everybody does. Everybody goes through that turn it down thing, you know, where they want it down lower, not quite so loud. Maybe down here, you know, a little lower. Besides um drugs and stuff, what gave you pleasure? Well, what gave me pleasure? Well, when I heard of first Phil Spectre record on the radio, I said, you know, Phil, that Phil knows exactly what to put out there. He knows he knows the formula, the secret, you know, of rock and roll.

16:31 And and I used to look up to the guy and then I said to myself, you know, you can't all your life walk around idolizing somebody. You got to do your own thing, you know. You know, it would be too easy. It would be too easy for me to sit around and think about Gene Landy all day, you know, my executive producer. But no, I you know, I go about my work. You know, I think of him often during the day because he's made such a powerful influence. He's had such a powerful influence over my life. You know, you mentioned him. He's not only credited with executive executive producing your your new record, but he's the psychiatrist whose care you've been under for the past few years. Yeah. He's been he's been performing a health operation on my head. He's he's done something that's impossible that nobody could do. What do you think he's done that's really worked for you? Well, what he's done that worked for me was he's

17:16 taken my body and transformed not only the my physical shape, but he's transformed the chemistry within my blood, you know, from dirty to clean. And when you go through those those trans transformation periods, you go through a little hell, you know what I mean? It's it's a little bit of hell to have to to come through all that. All right, it was rough and I and I do remember all of it, you know, but no, it doesn't slow you down. kind of speeds you up. You look back, that's how everybody is. They look back, why, that son of a gun. I'll get him, you know.

17:43 No, wait a minute. You want to go forward and you want to say, "Hey, to heck with that guy. I'm going forward. I'm not going to spend half of my life on revenge." That would be absurd. You know what I mean? He's not with you today, but one of his associates, I believe, is traveling with you. Um, does he live with you now? The doctor? No, the doctor does not live with me, but he lives in the same city with me, and he's in touch with me every day. And Kevin Lesie and Chris Roger, the the assistants, the doctor's his doctor assistants doctor's assistants uh work in a capacity of with work with me and Jean. They float kind of between me and him and they u maintain the strength and the the you know the atmosphere. They help to keep up the atmosphere of this of the tour and the spirit of the tour.

18:32 And uh for as much as I can say as I just say, woo. You know, I mean, there's currently charges uh pending against him that are being investigated, ethical violations. I was wondering if you cared to comment about them. See, my family called in and made a bunch of accusations about Gene Landy, which are not true. Those accusations are false, and I can prove it. I know their faults and there's nothing they said that was was even anywhere near in the ballpark. All of it was out of the ballpark. None of it was in the ballpark. You think your family wants to get you out of his care? Yeah. They want to get me away from him. They don't understand how good he is for me. What has he done? You know, what does the man do for me? What does the man make me do that's good for me? You know what I mean?

19:17 Um, it's really a thrill to hear a new record from you and also to have the opportunity to sit across the table from you and and interview you. And, uh, I was wondering how you feel about being back in the public eye like this again. It's really been a long time since you've done interviews and and appeared before the public. I've It's just been It's just been so long that it's such a all so so so it has so much impact on me, you know? I haven't done this kind of a promotional tour ever since like the early Beach Boy days, you Yeah, it's a long time ago. It really is. It was like 25 years ago, I guess. We we we were into that into that. Oh, I'm telling you, it was something. How are you pacing yourself?

19:54 Well, I'm not smoking cigarettes and I'm not doing things like that for crutches. You know, people sit and have a cigarette break every 10 minutes, right? Well, I don't do that anymore. I don't smoke cigarettes cuz cigarettes are bad for me. They give you cancer. Who in the world would want to smoke cigarettes knowing that they give you cancer? You know what I mean? I would like to end with another selection from your new album and I want to play uh one for the boys which is uh an homage to the Beach Boys uh where you do all the voices. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing here on the voices on that song. One for the boys. Uh it was all sort of a little uh a little song in tribute to the Beach Boys and it it has no instruments on it, just voices. It had one, two, three, four five six seven eight nine ten 10 different vocal vocal tracks going. I I put them on all one at a time and it

20:43 was like done with the four freshmen in mind. It's a tribute to the four freshman and the Beach Boys both, you know, and I was most proud to make that song because it sounds so pretty and I hope people like it. And you do all the voices on it. Yes, I do. I did all the voices on it. Thank you so much for joining us and I wish you the best. Thank you. Brian Wilson has been my guest. And here's a selection from his new solo album, his first solo album, Brian Wilson. Hallelujah.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Remembering Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys (1988 interview) | Fresh Air"?

Brian Wilson (Guest), Terry Gross (Host).

What is "Remembering Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys (1988 interview) | Fresh Air" about?

Brian Wilson, the creative mastermind behind The Beach Boys, reflects on his tumultuous journey through mental health challenges and personal struggles, including a nervous breakdown and years of isolation. Under the controversial care of psychologist Dr. Eugene Landy, Wilson experienced a remarkable physical transformation and returned to music, culminating in the release of his first solo…

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

8 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Dr. Eugene Landy, Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations, Catch a Wave, Surfent, Fun, Fun, Fun. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Remembering Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys (1988 interview) | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 22 min; the transcript is about 4,529 words in 31 timestamped sections.

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