Remembering Diane Keaton (1997 interview) | Fresh Air

What this episode is about

The content reflects on the life and career of Diane Keaton, who recently passed away at 79, through a 1997 interview highlighting her significant roles in iconic films such as "Annie Hall" and "The Godfather." It discusses her multifaceted talent as an actress, author, and director, and emphasizes her impact on both cinema and fashion, particularly her Oscar-winning performance in "Annie Hall," which solidified her as a major star.

Key takeaways

• Diane Keaton: the queen of versatility, seamlessly transitioned from comedic darling to dramatic powerhouse—an Oscar for every mood.
• Before Instagram, there was Diane's fashion influence; she turned Annie Hall's style into a legacy that still inspires.
• Keaton’s reluctance to disrobe in Hair shows a woman prioritizing agency before it became a popular theme in Hollywood.
• Her on-screen chemistry with Al Pacino? A sizzling reminder of how real-life sparks can fuel cinematic magic.
• In Marvin's Room, Keaton proved family ties can be heavy, showcasing her range from lighthearted to heart-wrenching roles.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Terry Gross (Host) · 14 min speaking
• Diane Keaton (Guest) · 21 min speaking
• David Bianuli (Guest) · 4 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Annie Hall, Diane Keaton, Marvin's Room, First Wives Club
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Marvin's Room, Annie Hall, Looking for Mr. Goodbar
3. 15:00 – 20:00: Annie Hall
4. 20:00 – 25:00: Annie Hall, The Godfather
5. 30:00 – 34:56: First Wives Club, Annie Hall

Notable quotes from "Remembering Diane Keaton (1997 interview) | Fresh Air"

• Listen back to my 1997 interview with her. Among the things we talked about were her performance in Annie Hall, for which won an Oscar, and her role in The Godfather. First, we'll hear an appreciation from our TV critic, David Bianuli.

  about Annie Hall · at 0:08

• She earned Oscar nominations for three other films, Reds, Marvin's Room, and Something's Got to Give, and maintained a career moving from comic to dramatic roles. She was impressively relatable and believable in both, and her.

  about Marvin's Room · at 3:13

• Read it. So, I wanted to give it a try. Sort of after I did Annie Hall, I did Looking for Mr.

  about Looking for Mr. Goodbar · at 6:27

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Diane Keaton — Person · 4 mentions · first at 0:03
  Today we remember actor Diane Keaton, who has died at the age of 79. We'll listen back to my 1997 interview with her. Among the things we talked about were her performance in Annie Hall, for.

Books & papers

• Annie Hall — Book · 10 mentions · first at 0:12
• Marvin's Room — Book · 6 mentions · first at 3:15
• The Godfather — Book · 3 mentions · first at 0:15
  Her. Among the things we talked about were her performance in Annie Hall, for which won an Oscar, and her role in The Godfather. First, we'll hear an appreciation from our TV critic, David Bianuli.
• First Wives Club — Book · 3 mentions · first at 3:46
  Warren Batty. Katon's screen comedies included The Father of the Bride movies, The First Wives Club, Baby Boom, and Manhattan Murder Mystery. Her dramas included Looking for…
• Hair — Book · 2 mentions
• The Father of the Bride — Book · 1 mention · first at 3:44
  Allen, Alpuccino, and her Red's co-star Warren Batty. Katon's screen comedies included The Father of the Bride movies, The First Wives Club, Baby Boom, and Manhattan Murder…
• Looking for Mr. Goodbar — Book · 1 mention · first at 6:32
• Reds — Book · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Today we remember actor Diane Keaton, who has died at the age of 79. We'll listen back to my 1997 interview with her. Among the things we talked about were her performance in Annie Hall, for which won an Oscar, and her role in The Godfather. First, we'll hear an appreciation from our TV critic, David Bianuli. Diane Keaton over her long and distinguished career demonstrated her ability to excel in a number of different venues. She acted in dozens of film comedies and dramas, earning Tony and Oscar nominations along the way. She wrote more than a dozen books, including a memoir, and directed documentary and scripted movies as well. She was a gifted singer, as evidenced by her unforgettable rendition of Seems Like Old Times in Annie Hall.

0:53 And for that same 1977 Woody Allen film, she won an Academy Award as best actress. She played the title role of Annie Hall, a woman who meets a neurotic writer and comic named Alvie Singer, played by Woody Allen. Over the course of the film, Annie and Alvie fall in love, then fall out of love. On a plane trip back from LA to New York, we hear their thoughts as they sit there silently. silently. That is, until Annie addresses Alvie directly and finally speaks her mind, as does he.

1:28 I have to face facts. I adore Alvie, but our relationship doesn't seem to work anymore.

1:35 I'll have the usual trouble with Annie in bed tonight. What do I need this? If only I had the nerve to break up, but it would really hurt him.

1:46 If only I didn't feel guilty asking Annie to move out. It'd probably wreck her. But I should be honest,

1:53 Alvie. Let's face it. You know, I don't think our relationship is working. I know. A relationship, I think, is is like a shock. You know, it has to constantly move forward or it dies. And I think what we got on our hands is a dead shark.

2:10 Annie Hall made Diane Keaton a major star. and the outfit she put together for that character made her a major fashion influencer before influencers were a thing. But by then she'd already been in films and had a notable stage career. Diane Keaton appeared on Broadway in the late 1960s, first as a member of the ensemble cast of the rock musical Hair and eventually as the female lead Sheila. However, she turned down the bonus money to appear naked in certain scenes. In 1969, she earned a Tony nomination for her role in Woody Allen's comedy Play It Again Sam, a role she repeated on film in 1972.

2:53 That same year, she played Kay, the wife of Alpuccino's Michael Corleó, in the first Godfather film. In the 70s, she reteamed with Allen for a series of classic comedies, including Sleeper, Love and Death, and Annie Hall, as well as the more somber Interiors and Manhattan. She earned Oscar nominations for three other films, Reds, Marvin's Room, and Something's Got to Give, and maintained a career moving from comic to dramatic roles. She was impressively relatable and believable in both, and her on-screen chemistry with her co-stars occasionally blossomed into off-screen chemistry as well. Her real life romantic relationships included Woody Allen, Alpuccino, and her Red's co-star Warren Batty. Katon's screen comedies included The Father of the Bride movies, The First Wives Club, Baby Boom, and Manhattan Murder Mystery. Her dramas included Looking for Mr. Hoodbar and Marvin's Room, which is the film which

3:56 Diane Keaton and Terry discussed in 1997. So, at this point, I'll turn it back to Terry. David Bianuli is a TV historian and Fresh Airs TV critic. He'll be back later in the show to review a new documentary about actor John Candy. Now, we're going to hear the interview I recorded with Diane Katon in 1997. We talked about several of her films. We began with a clip from Marvin's Room, which had just been released and earned her an Oscar nomination. Katon and Meil Stre starred as sisters with opposite temperaments. Katon played Bessie, who has dedicated her life to taking care of her father ever since a stroke left him bedridden. Street played Lee, who's cut herself off from the family to establish an independent life. After Bessie is diagnosed with leukemia, Lee returns to visit for the first time in years.

4:50 Katon's character, Bessie, confronts her. Why can't you take Dad and Ruth? I don't think so.

4:57 You can move down here. You could have the house. Now I got Hank to think about. He's very unhappy there. Of course, he's unhappy. If you were happy, he wouldn't be there. You could have him transferred. You could find a very nice place for him here. You could have the whole house. You could have the sunshine. You could find work down here, Lee. No. Why not?

5:15 Just no. Well, then give me one good because I don't want to. I made this decision once already. When daddy had his first stroke, I made this decision then. I was not going to waste my life.

5:24 You think I've wasted my life? Of course not. I can't imagine a better way to have spent my life.

5:30 Well, then we both made the right decision. Decision. Dad got sick and I came down to help out for a little while. You did.

5:35 Your role in Marvin's room is really the opposite of the kind of role we first got to know you from in your Woody Allen movies. Your character of Bessie is somebody who first of all dresses in very kind of Kmart type fashions. Yeah. Lives in a very sheltered world, is steadfast in her devotion to her family,

5:56 and has very little of a life outside of that. She's the kind of person who who doesn't leave home, who's never left home.

6:03 And you're so convincing in both of those kind of roles. Um, but this one somehow seems really far from your own life to me. Is it? Oh, yes. I would say that yes, it is quite far from my life. No, that's that there's clearly really nothing in common between Bessie and I except probably just this uh intense identification with her for me when I read it. So, I I wanted to give it a try. Sort of like, you know, after I did Annie Hall, I did Looking for Mr. Goodbar. And that was also something. Well, what I mean, why would anyone want to play that after playing Annie Hall?

6:42 But the truth of the matter is is that I was very attracted to the darker side of that woman, you know, that she had two lives. This friendly, nice uh outgoing teacher of the deaf and then this uh this woman who haunted the bars looking for men and dangerous men and paid the price. I think that when you're an actress, you're just intensely attracted to projects with substance and I really felt that this had substance besides the fact that it was also very well written in in the humor department also.

7:20 But this is a character who's kind of given up her own independence and her own personal pursuits to take care of her her father and her aunt. Now when you're an actress you have to be the opposite in a way. You have to be selfish in a professional sense. I mean you have to kind of make a lot of sacrifices to pursue your career to to really obsess on roles and things like that. So what did you draw on for this character who was so different from you? I think what I drew on was my wish to play somebody like that. I I really don't do you know and also I think of course family. There's no question that my most intense feelings of affection uh are are are with my family.

8:08 So I think family and also the chance to try and play something where I'm a giving person instead of a driven ambitious person like I am in life.

8:19 Right. You know what I find so interesting about you? As I said, I I think you're really convincing in in so many different kinds of roles. And in in Marvin's room, you're playing a character that is really very honest. Nothing is couched in irony. Um, and many of your other characters, well, particularly in the Woody Allen movies, there's so many things that have quotation marks around them. Um, and I guess I'm interested in what it's like to inhabit both of those worlds through your roles. you know, the the character who who doesn't live in a world of irony and then the character who does. It's easier for me to be in the world of the ironic because it sort of comes more naturally to me.

9:07 I had trouble with this part regarding certain primary scenes and I'm talking about the part of Bessie in Marvin's room. I would go up to the director and say, "Do you know that last scene?" And I don't know if you saw this, Terry, but the last scene where Well, obviously you did. You had to probably anyway. The last scene

9:23 I have to say to Merryill, um, I'm so lucky to have loved so much. I'm so lucky. You I I really literally couldn't say that because it's dead on, flaton the truth, the feeling of the moment, the depth of that moment. And I remember the director saying, "No, Diane, you have to say that. You have to say those lines." And I was going, "No, because listen, let me tell you something. As far as I'm concerned, if somebody called me up, if somebody doctor called me up and said, "Guess what? Nothing's working and yeah, you are going to die." I couldn't sit there and get down on the floor and pick up those pills and say to my sister, "I'm so lucky to have loved so much. I'm so like I said, I would be terrified." No, no, no. That is not the intention. And because really the heart of the peace is in that, you know, it's right there in those lines at the end there. And I was fighting it. And Meyer Streep came up into my room and she told

10:13 me also in a very kind way that this is someplace I have to try and go and imagine. Of course, I can't imagine it, but on the other hand, you have to kind of get swept away. And one of the reasons I think that I was helped was of course because of Merryill because somehow being and looking into Merryill's face, she just kind of lifted me up and helped me go there. But frankly, it's not easy for me. It's just not easy. It's hard to imagine being that kind of a person.

10:45 I guess I'm shallow. No, but let me ask you this. How do you decide with lines like that whether there's something that doesn't ring true about the script or whether it's just a different kind of person than the character?

10:59 No, I think that it did ring true with the script. I think I did have to say those lines because I think that that's the kind of person she is at the core that she can

11:08 leave it and she can accept the fact that she's going to be leaving everybody permanently. So in that case I I really think as I was just begging for help and I got help in another scene the you know I I was also saying to the director listen this is overwritten. This was a case where I thought, you know, I put on my director's hat. Haha. And I had to say this these lines about this boyfriend that I had and how he went swimming and and how I saw him drown in front of my eyes. And I was I was just going, "This is ridiculous. I can't say this. There's no way I'm going to say this because frankly, it sounds fake. It sounds like a speech." And again, uh Jerry Zach came up to me and said, "No, Diane, you have to do it. You have to try to do this and make it real for you." I just said this impossible. And of course, you know, I did it. And you know something? I like it when I see it. I actually like that.

12:04 I thought it was funny. I somehow managed to get through it. I don't know. I think that I'm afraid. I think I'm kind of a chicken actress. And I think that people really have to keep saying, "You can do it. You can do it." And it really tells you. I mean, as an actress, it really it informs me how much I desperately need a director who cares. It's so important to have somebody watching me, you I mean, you you constantly are battling with yourself when you're acting in a part. At least I am because it's just not that easy for me.

12:34 Well, it must be interest It must be interesting now that you're directing more too.

12:41 Yeah. But, but now you can act as your own director in a way and you're wearing two.

12:44 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, Terry. No, no, no way. I don't think you really have I'm not one of those people who I I have a third eye or anything. I mean, when I'm acting, I'm acting and I need help. And when I'm directing, I'm watching. I'm looking. I'm observing. And it's entirely different. And it's an entirely different place. And I really don't feel that the two live together. I mean, for me, I can't I have to be feeling it or otherwise I'm dead flat and just nothing. And if I'm not fe and if I'm not feeling see if I if I'm not feeling it, then I can watch. But how can I watch when I'm trying to be there?

13:18 I'm the person who they just said, you know, you're going to die. I have to be there. I'm I don't have a good enough imagination, which is why it's every it's harder for me. Like when I see Merryill Streep, I go, "Oh my god, she's got everything. She's got a brilliant imagination. She has a great depth of emotional life. She has this amazing ability, and this also goes for Leonardo DiCaprio, to mimic and mime and do voices and accents and all this." And she does it in her her life. Plus, she has a great conceptual mind. It's just a little bit. Not a little bit. It's a lot harder for me.

13:53 Well, you're not you're not doing um I think naturally, you know what? I'm going to get back to answering your question. I think that I'm more inclined to live comfortably in the world of humor.

14:06 Uhhuh. Then drama. Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, everyone's told me that, too, so I think it's true.

14:12 But but you're very convincing in drama. You really are. Yeah, because I I really beat myself up to get there. Diane Katon, your your mother was a beauty queen. Yes.

14:23 No. No. Here's what she was. Um although she is very beautiful, by the way. Uh no, she was Mrs. Los Angeles.

14:33 That's entirely different. It means that when I was growing up in the 50s, we lived in Highland Park in Los Angeles. And I remember I was about eight or nine and my mother uh you know became Mrs. Highland Park. And I remember sitting down in the stage and watching her being crowned Mrs. Highland Park. And it was that she was the perfect homemaker. She I went to win Mrs. Highland Park. She kept making these chocolate cakes every day that we had to eat. And this was, you know, this was what she was. And then she went on to be Mrs. Los Angeles because she made a good spaghetti or something. I don't know. And they came around at like 7 in the morning, the judges, and looked at our house, which was insane to see if she was a neat homemaker. And so that was very exciting for about I think it lasted for about four months and and but then she made it to the finalist of Mrs. California but then she didn't get Mrs. California. She

15:22 was too good for him. She was too good for him. What did she win when she won Mrs. Highland Park?

15:28 Oh appliances. Oh please. You know just the best appliances ever and you know luggage and all those great things.

15:35 Did you want to be a happy homemaker? No. No I did not want to be a happy homemaker. Uh-uh. That did not appeal to me. But I did want to go on stage. I saw that that was something that did appeal to me. There she was in the theater and I saw the curtain open and there was my mother and I thought, hm, I think I like that for myself.

15:54 It's funny. So you you kind of got the wrong message here. I did. I got the total wrong message. She was

15:59 I like life. Yeah. She was presented as the picture of uh domesticity and you interpreted that as show business.

16:06 Oh yeah. Leave it to me. One of your early roles was in hair and every profile I've read of you, every written profile,

16:15 I didn't take off my clothes. Exactly. Every profile mentions that during the nude scenes or nude scenes in hair that when everybody else was naked, you were wearing a body stocking. And I couldn't help but wonder if the cast

16:25 No, I wasn't wearing a body stocking. No, no. The situation was that we were all under this huge tarp or something doing, you know, and we were lying there and there would be holes in the tarp and people would stand up at the appropriate moment and you sort of just stand naked. That was that was how that was. And I just remember lying under the tarp and seeing all my friends get naked over the course of time and I just didn't want to do it. I just didn't seem worth it to me at the time. I didn't want to do it. standing naked in the dark and getting cold, you know, it just didn't seem like fun.

16:57 So, the only reason I didn't do it, it just, you know, it wasn't worth it. So, how did you avoid doing it?

17:03 I didn't. It wasn't a requirement by any means. Okay. It was optional and it was suggested and you would get $50 extra.

17:11 No, it's a money gig. It was a money gig like everything else. That's funny. So, did anybody in the cast kind of um uh make fun of the people who were not willing to take their clothes off?

17:23 Not really, but it was sort of get behind the spirit of it all. But hey, frankly, I was uh you know, I just graduated from the neighborhood playhouse and I really wasn't a hippie. I never was a hippie. I was basically always an actress. And so, I just didn't really get behind it in terms of the spirit of the moment. Besides that, we were all in show business. I never believed that it was like, you know, peace, love, and happiness.

17:48 No, I want to ask you about your early films with Woody Allen. You first work with him in the Broadway production of Play It Against Sam, which he wrote and also starred in.

17:57 Oh, right. When I was in Hair When I was in Hair, I auditioned for Play It Against Sam.

18:01 Oh, which is interesting. What was the audition like? You know what I remember about it? Of course, was being terrified. Typical. And him. I remember that he got on stage with me and I remember being very attracted to him because I already was attracted to him because he was Woody Allen even at that point. We used to see him on the Tonight Show.

18:19 Mhm. He was very funny and re and really appealing person and I never thought I would get the part.

18:27 Why not? Because there were a lot of other people auditioning and why me? I I didn't know but anyway I did. When you started working with him, did you relate to his brand of New York Jewish neurosis humor?

18:43 Oh, of course. I'd seen him on the Tonight Show. I thought he was hilarious. Oh, sure. Who didn't Do you remember? I mean, do you remember when he was coming up?

18:51 Oh, yeah. He was I mean, you just fell in love with him. Or I did anyway. You know, the movies are are based in part on the tension between your background and his background. And uh you're always cast, you know, in his movies as or usually cast in his movies as like the the shika, the the one who's not Jewish.

19:11 And so there's this kind of uh interplay between, you know, the the Jewish neurotic East Coaster and the woman who's not from the East Coast, who's whose neurosis are kind of different and not Jewish.

19:24 Did that did that tension come from real life? Oh, I think so. I I would say sure

19:34 at this point. Yes. Did Did you see yourself differently through his eyes, through the character that he created for you?

19:44 Are you talking about Annie Hall? Sure. Let's talk about Annie Hall. Let's focus it and talk about Annie Hall.

19:48 I mean, I I think that, frankly, when I I read the script, I just flipped. I I knew it was great and uh it was very easy just to be but I didn't I mean I didn't really think that it was per se me although there were these characters they were similar in feel but not in specific you know that the actions the events were not the same at all.

20:13 You you play very well. Oh yeah. So do you. Oh god what a what a dumb thing to say right? I mean, you say it you play well and then right away I have to say you play well. Oh. Oh, God. Annie. Well, oh well. Ly dah la dah la. Yeah.

20:33 Uh, you you want a lift? Oh, why? Uh, you got a car? You mean no? I'm I was going to take a cab.

20:43 Oh, no. I have a car. You have a car? So I don't understand what if you have a car. So then then why why did you say do you have a car like you wanted a lift?

20:56 I don't I don't I Gez I don't know. I wasn't I got this VW out there. What a jerk. Yeah. Would you like a lift?

21:11 Sure. Which way you going? Me? Um downtown. I'm I'm I'm going uptown. Oh, well, do you know I'm going uptown, too?

21:19 No, you just said you were going downtown. Yeah, well, but I can I can go up town, too. I live uptown, but uh what the hell? I mean, it' be nice having company, you know? I mean, I hate driving alone.

21:30 Now, the inflections that you used in Annie Hall. Um, a voice that that's often speaking in irony, a voice that has a lot of insecurity in it as well as humor. How did you come up with that inflection? Well, that that I didn't even come up with it. I just delivered it. It was just there. I think that was something that he trusted and enjoyed. Did you happen to read that profile on him, The New Yorker?

21:57 No. That was interesting because Diane Whis was talking about him and if something isn't working, he's very simple about why it isn't working. Well, with Annie Hall, when I was doing Annie Hall, everything seemed to be working. He just didn't question it. We were going with kind of the spontaneous impulses that we were feeling at the time in those scenes and we just let it rip. I think Diane Whis was saying, you know, in uh in Bullets Over Broadway when she won the Academy Award that that character wasn't happening and he called her up and he said, "It's no good." And she didn't know what to do. She didn't know. And he said, he came up with an idea and he said, "Thinks your voice. Let's just lower it." Do you believe it? It's that simple. And then she had it. She had the character and it was amazing. I mean, she's amazing anyway, but what I'm saying is it was a very simple solution to what a lot of people would have made

22:49 a very complicated problem. Do you see what I mean? His he just cuts through all the time in every way.

22:56 Was your was your inflections and your voice in Annie Hall a voice that you really spoke in or is it the voice of the character that you found and what was your process of finding it? No, I think I spoke in that character at that point in my life.

23:10 Oh, okay. I think that's the way I talked. Did you say la dah? Never never did say that though that he wrote.

23:17 Was that on the page? I mean, if I saw Lahi Dah on the page, I think, oh man, this is never going to work. And of course, it really works terrifically. Did you think

23:23 I think it's because it worked because I think that there was this it was the way we were working. In other words, it's how he directs, which is to loosen it up. Just to loosen the whole thing up and just fly with it. and heat and and then it it worked. I know that doesn't seem like a very good line, does it? Lahi dah.

23:41 Well, it wouldn't to me on the page. It really would not. Mm- But but it does in the movie.

23:46 It worked. Yeah. Now, I want to ask you about the Godfather movies. You're in all three of them.

23:51 Mhm. Now, in in particularly in the first two movies, you were the woman in a world of men. And

23:59 I have to laugh. It's so funny. Yes, I was. I was the woman in a world of men. And that's really brought home at the end of the first Godfather movie where Aloment is slams the door in your face and makes it really clear that now that he's the head of the family.

24:14 You're gonna be shut out of a lot of his life. Oh, it's a world I know nothing about. Do you know when we were making it, it was just I didn't know what was going on. And I just did feel left out. I really felt that way. And I also felt I never understood why he cast me in that ever. I still don't understand why he cast me in that. I I never thought, you know, I at that point in my life, people viewed me as being kind of kooky, you know, I was like the kooky actress and he cast me in that role.

24:42 Serious. Yes. And sensible, down to earth, practical. I'm telling you, it's nothing. I never got it. And he never I don't know what made him pick me. That was a lucky break. So, in what ways did you feel maybe uh kind of left out or the outsider on the Godfather sets?

25:02 I think in every way I felt the outsider. There was there was nobody that really became my friend on those movies. I I I guess I you know I I really

25:11 What about Alpuccino though? You had a relationship with him but not as I mean it wasn't like we pled out.

25:17 We weren't do Do you know what I mean? He was very private and separate from me and and in the first one I really didn't know him very well and I think he was also overwhelmed by the enormity of his part and he was so uh profoundly I think great in that movie. I think when he has to murder for the first time I I I think that's a very amazing performance he gave. So he was really a loner. He was really

25:45 involved with that part. He was separate from the other guys, I felt, and he was in the movie, too. But I just didn't know what the hell was going on. I was what, 23? I didn't know anything about movies. I was overwhelmed by the entire the entire enterprise. I really was. What did you have to do for the audition?

26:08 Read with a lot of different guys. I read with Jimmy Khan. They couldn't decide on Alpuccino. They just couldn't decide. They didn't know what to do. I think Francis's heart was with Alpuccino, but a lot of people wanted Jimmy Khan. Um, but there was a group of guys that I read with and they just kept reading me with them. My guest is Diane Katon. Here she is as K. Corleó with Alpuchccino as Michael Corleone in a scene from Godfather 2. Their marriage is on the rocks and she's just had what he assumes was a miscarriage.

26:36 I'll change. I've learned that I have the strength to change. And you'll forget about this miscarriage. And we'll have another child and we'll go on. You and I. We'll go on.

26:53 Oh. Oh Michael. Michael, you are blind. It wasn't a miscarriage. It was an abortion. An abortion, Michael. Just like our marriage is an abortion. Something that's unholy and evil. I didn't want your son, Michael. I wouldn't bring another one of your sons into this world. It was an abortion, Michael. It was a son. A son. And I had it killed because this must all end. I know now that it's over. I knew it then. There would be no way, Michael. No way you could ever forgive me. Not with this Sicilian thing that's been going on for 2,000 years.

28:03 You won't take my children. I will. You won't take my children. You're my children, too.

28:10 Now, you've been um in films that are just kind of uh landmarks in American film history now. And you've also been in some really fine films that haven't become as famous. And I'd like you to choose one of those films that you particularly like and would like to call people's attention to.

28:27 I don't know. You you pick it. I can't pick what's good. I don't know. Well, I like your performance a lot in Mrs. Soful um where you play the wife of a prison guard who ends up falling in love with one of the prisoners and helps him escape. And it's just a very interesting performance.

28:43 I was so excited by that part. I wanted that so bad. I was after Jill, Jillian Armstrong, the director, for so many years. I was kept trying to snatch her up and get her to do something with me. I was constantly on her. And finally, she came up with something and it was this. it was her idea. She loved this true story and I was so excited and the whole thing was just kind of a thrilling experience and plus it was the first time in my life where I started watching the director. I was looking at what she was doing because I started to have little thing, you know, little inklings of expanding myself. And so I I took kind of a I had a notebook of her shots and I'd write down her shots to try to understand what she was doing because I think she's a wonderful director and I think she's a very visual director.

29:27 when you started directing um or or maybe even now when you direct uh are you or have you ever been um shy or uncomfortable about assuming the power one needs to assume in order to direct?

29:41 Oh yeah. Oh so obviously yes. Yeah. No question about it. I mean, it's not my way, but it's the desire to do it that overrides the uh fear of of saying to somebody, "That's not good. We've got to do it again." I mean, can you imagine saying that to somebody like Annie McDow? And I did it.

30:04 I didn't I didn't think I could, but I did. Did you have to find a different voice to use? I mean, the voice that you're most famous for in terms of movie roles is that voice of being unsure. And you can't I don't think you can really speak with that voice when you're trying to be confident in giving directions to other people, especially like very sensitive actors and actresses who might be wounded by criticism. I

30:28 I think actors know when they're not towing the line. I believe in the instincts of the actors and I believe if you cast it correctly, if you have the privilege to cast it correctly, because that's not so easy. Casting is a very very very important thing in a movie. Movies don't get made without the right cast as you know. So if you get the right cast, they know if they're not delivering and if if they believe in you as an audience because really as a director that's what you are. You're their audience. You're their parent. You're the person who's watching them and judging whether or not they're giving you what they can give you. And if they trust you as an audience member, I think you don't have to say much except let's do it again and I just I need it. I need more or I I don't I don't think it's about delving. For me, I'm not clearly, you know, somebody who wants to sit down and talk about a part.

31:19 I have to trust their instincts and believe in them and give them as much freedom, but also let them know that I'm pushing them, that I'm there to push them and that I'm there to see when they're not giving me what they can give. And I kind of that's how I did it.

31:34 Now, I want to ask you about the success of First Wives Club. One of the issues that's approached in a comic way in First Wives Club is is the issue of plastic surgery.

31:42 Oh, there we go. I love it. This is my favorite topic. Is it really? Well, of course. I mean, it's just so big for all us girls out there who are over 40.

31:54 Well, there's so many pressures in the entertainment industry. Oh, give me a break.

31:58 To have it. And I really understand why some actresses feel like they have no choice. My impression is,

32:04 but how can you play here? Here's my feeling, you know. How can you be an authentic character? Unless of course you're playing an inauthentic. I mean, how can you be a real woman age 60 playing a part of of a woman, let's say, in the South who's naive and doesn't know a lot? How can you play that part if you've had a facelift? You can't.

32:24 Thank you. There's so many things that are taken away from you. And why would you want to play a part when you're younger? Because you're not younger. You can't be younger. So what is the point of in other words what I'm saying is this is what I am now. How can I be something else? You you just can't be younger. I'm just telling you no one can play younger. I don't believe it for one second. I don't believe it.

32:46 May May I say thank you? I I feel that you know watch me though. Watch me. Next month I'll have a facelift. I tell you I'll come over there. You'll see me. You'll go what happened to her and I'll be smiling. That that look that sort of mask look. No, but I feel like it's a self-perpetuating standard that the more women who who do um give in under pressure and have plastic surgery, the more pressure everybody else becomes under too. And the more everybody feels like they have no choice.

33:09 Right. You're absolutely right. It's a tough call. And I admire those women who don't. Look at Jessica Tandy. There was a face for you. She never touched her face. Look at that face. That's great. Um I'm wondering if you still sing. You started your career as a singer, both cabaret and rock. You sang in Annie Hall. Um, do you still sing?

33:31 You know, I used to take singing lessons. I took singing lessons for like 10 years from this woman, Janet Frank, out of New York, who I love, who's just a wonderful woman. I think I just was so in love with music. I was never a great singer,

33:43 but Janet taught me a way to approach a song and try to make it an acting thing. Do you know, which which made it which made it nice for me.

33:51 What's the difference between a singing thing and an acting thing and approaching a song? I think that it's the words, it's what you're saying, that's the that's the acting approach. It's it's not and then that's how you approach the style of song. Of course, I have a limited thing in terms of being a singer. It's a it's a very small

34:09 kind of a delicate little voice, you know, not and not very not a very big range or anything. And basically, I didn't really have a uh I just wasn't good enough. I mean, I just wasn't good enough to be a singer. So, do I sing now? Let me just answer your question because I get so lost in uh not really that I I sang in First Wives Club which was really fun for me with the Mottown song or

34:33 uh you know you don't own me is right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. You don't

34:36 and and that was really fun and I danced which I don't do and that was fun too. So um I I look forward to another opportunity to try. I don't know if I'll get another one but we'll see. My interview with Diane Katon was recorded in 1997.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Remembering Diane Keaton (1997 interview) | Fresh Air"?

Terry Gross (Host), Diane Keaton (Guest), David Bianuli (Guest).

What is "Remembering Diane Keaton (1997 interview) | Fresh Air" about?

The content reflects on the life and career of Diane Keaton, who recently passed away at 79, through a 1997 interview highlighting her significant roles in iconic films such as "Annie Hall" and "The Godfather." It discusses her multifaceted talent as an actress, author, and director, and emphasizes her impact on both cinema and fashion, particularly her Oscar-winning performance in "Annie Hall,"…

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

9 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Annie Hall, Marvin's Room, Diane Keaton, The Godfather, First Wives Club, Hair. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Remembering Diane Keaton (1997 interview) | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 35 min; the transcript is about 6,671 words in 110 timestamped sections.

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