The Power of Networking: Who's in Your Life? with Ivan Misner

What this episode is about

Dr. Ivan Misner, founder of BNI and a leading expert in business networking, discusses the transformative power of networking in building relationships and generating referrals. He shares insights from his extensive experience in sales and networking while highlighting the impact of BNI, which has facilitated billions of dollars in business through its vast global network.

Key takeaways

• Networking: the unsung hero of business success, taught nowhere yet crucial everywhere.
• BNI's staggering $25 billion in closed business eclipses GDPs of 100 countries—take note, economists!
• From a single group to 11,000 chapters, Misner proves networking’s exponential potential through relationships.
• Consulting by day, networking by night—Misner's accidental empire was born from necessity, not foresight.
• Who needs formal education? Misner's lessons on networking changed the business landscape without a syllabus.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Tommy (Host) · 22 min speaking
• Dr. Ivan Misner (Guest) · 33 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: BNI, Ivan Misner, Who's in the Room
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Who's in the Room
3. 50:00 – 54:51: The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership

Notable quotes from "The Power of Networking: Who's in Your Life? with Ivan Misner"

• All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is a podcast I've been waiting for several months. Dr. Ivan Misner is an amazing guy. written amazing books. What he's done in his life is…

  about Ivan Misner · at 0:00

• Agree with it completely. I think you really you need to surround yourself with people that raise your skill set. I wrote a book called Who's in Your Room?

  about Who's in the Room · at 7:29

• The MBA program on leadership and that was the book I used to teach with was the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership.

  about The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership · at 50:21

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Ivan Misner — Person · Main guest · 1 mention · first at 0:04
  Primary interview subject discussing business networking, the founding/scaling of BNI, and relationship-based referral systems (e.g., VCP).
• Daniel Amen — Person · Referenced expert · 2 mentions
  Used to add neuroscience credibility to Misner’s “Who’s in your room” framework—arguing relationships leave lasting mental ‘fingerprints.’

Books & papers

• The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership — Book · Primary recommendation · 1 mention · first at 50:27
  A book recommended by Dr. Ivan Misner as essential reading for leadership training.
• Who's in the Room — Book · Referenced work · 2 mentions · first at 0:55
  A book written by Dr. Ivan Misner, discussing the importance of the people you surround yourself with in business and life.

Companies & orgs

• BNI — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 0:18
  BNI is the world's largest business networking organization, founded by Dr. Ivan Misner, and is a central topic of discussion in the podcast.
  Fantastic. Welcome to the home service expert. Dr. Ivan is an expert in sales, business, networking. He's the founder of BNI, which I'm a huge fan of. chief visionary officer…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is a podcast I've been waiting for for several months. Uh Dr. Ivan Misner uh is an amazing guy. Uh written amazing books. What he's done in his life is fantastic. Welcome to the home service expert. Dr. Ivan is an expert in sales, business, networking. He's the founder of BNI, which I'm a huge fan of. uh chief visionary officer at BNI, the world's largest business networking organization. Founded in 1985, the organization has now over 11,000 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world. Each year, BNI generates millions of referrals, resulting in billions of dollars worth of business for its members. Dr.

0:47 Misner's PhD is from the University of Southern California. He's a New York Times best-selling author and has written over 30 books, including one of his latest books, Who's in the Room, uh, called The Father of Modern Networking by Forbes and CNN. Dr. Msner is considered to be one of the world's leading experts on business networking. He's been featured in LA Times, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, as well as numerous TV and radio shows, including CNN and BBC and the Today Show on NBC. And the list goes on and on and on. It's a pleasure to have you here.

1:20 Hey, thank you. Can I call you Tommy? Ah, you bet. That'd be great. Yeah, Tommy, please call me Ivan. Okay, we'll do. Uh, so let's start here. It's great to be on on your podcast. I appreciate the invitation. I'm excited. It's It's amazing because, you know, I'm still We run 25,000 jobs a month. Uh, we're in 22 states and we just launched Atlanta. And the first thing I said is you got to go meet the people. You got to shake the hands. You've got to network. People need to know who you are. And so BNI has done a lot for me, my family, this business. I just curious if you could just start out from from the early days what your goals were and what you're looking at today just so the listeners can get to know you a little bit. Yeah.

2:04 Well, look, I'd like to tell you, Tommy, that I had this vision of an international organization with chapters all over the world. I was 28 years old when I started BNI, and I I was looking for referrals for my consulting practice. I was a management consultant and so I I so I started one networking group. I I didn't like the groups that were out there. They were either too mercenary or too social and I wanted something that was focused on business but wasn't totally social. And so I formed a group in a format that I thought was effective business-wise but also in terms of relationships. And someone came to me after a month or two and said, and as you know, we only take one person for professional classification. And she said, "This is great, but I can't join.

2:49 My p my profession is already represented. Would you help me open up another chapter?" And I I actually said, "No, this isn't what I do. I'm a business consultant. I don't run a network." But she kind of talked me into it. I did it. We opened another chapter. Two people came who couldn't join because of a professional conflict and they said, "Hey, would you help us open a chapter?" And I said, "No, this isn't what I do." And they talked me into it and I did it. And what I learned at the end of the year was we we ended up with 20 chapters of BNI. I started in January 85. By December of 85, we had 20 groups.

3:30 And I I always take time off in between the holidays to to reflect. And that year I was like, what the heck just happened? This was not on my vision at all. And I realized that we don't teach this in colleges and universities anywhere in the world. We don't teach networking. And that's when I decided to create a plan to scale uh BNI. And as you mentioned, we now have over 11,000 chapters worldwide. Uh in the last 12 months we've generated 25 billion with a B 25 billion US dollars in thank you for closed business for our members. That's the amount of business our members generate. Now just to put this in perspective and that done there are actually a 100 countries in the world 100 countries in the world based on UN United Nations estimates of GDP with a lower GDP than what BNI generated for its members in the last 12 months. That blows my mind. I never envisioned that when I started this

4:34 organization 40 years ago. That's phenomenal. when you were in the early stages, let's just say 20 to 28. Can you explain what prepped you? Obviously, it was time, consistency, dedication, being obsessed, but what type of business consulting were you doing at the time when you started your first group? Yeah, I did um my doctorate work is in organizational behavior and leadership out of USC and um I did a lot of work with hiring, training, evaluating employees, policy, procedure manuals, job descriptions, systems, processes and people and so um that's what I was really involved in. Uh so it really gave me a great foundation for building scaling a business. It didn't give me any foundation for networking because we don't teach this in college. So, I basically was methodacting my way through the process of learning how to network. And the key is I wrote everything down, what worked, what didn't work, and that ended up

5:39 becoming the genesis of multiple books that I've written on networking. So, um I was my 20s were really my learning years. I immersed myself in in in to learning business and learning managing people. My my first big job was actually for the US Census Bureau where at 22 years old I supervised 500 people which is was a pretty amazing situation to be in. No, I you know what's funny is I had to look up a name because I I've brain farted and I apologize for looking away because I learned a lot about you the first time in 2018 when Cody Baitman asked me to speak to send out cards. It was my first real event with 900 people and it seems like I love Cody Cody's an amazing man.

6:31 Absolutely love him. And so I apologize looking away, but uh you and prompting and he I've got to know him very well. But it's it's just interesting because there's this expression your network is your net worth. And I don't just think that about money. I think that about the way you you you feel about yourself. I I think it's the way you treat your family, the way you're involved with uh I'm involved with the church. So, so whatever church you may belong to, it's like all all these aspects of life, networking is like a superpower. It's probably the most important thing. There there's this idea of you become the average of the five closest people around you. What is your take on that?

7:12 Well, you know, Jack Canfield amongst others u have said that many times. Uh Jack's a close friend of mine. I just saw him last week and his very last mastermind. I don't know if you know this, but he's retiring from his training. and I I was helping to facilitate his last mastermind. I I agree with it completely. I think you really you need to surround yourself with people that raise your skill set. I wrote a book called Who's in Your Room? And in there, I talk about the people around you are either engines or anchors.

7:46 They're either engines that are that are driving you or helping you or supporting you to be the best version of yourself or they're anchors. They're just pulling you down. And if you're if you're listening to this or watching this podcast, you got to think about the people in your life. Are they an engine or an anchor? Now, there's a third version which is even worse. It's it's a it's an anchor with an engine attached. And they're bringing you down fast. And you want to cut those people off. you want to get them out of your life and surround yourself with people who make you a better version of yourself. That that's so important and people they pay lip service to it. They don't really I don't think most people really understand how important that is. You know, I I I talk a lot to I got a team of 900 people here. They're my co-workers. And I talk a lot about those people that talk behind your they talk

8:45 right to you in your face. And I say, "Look at you're going to go back home and you're going to accomplish. We're going to write down your goals. Reverse engineer your goals. You're going to accomplish so much. You're going to figure out engineering. Love that. I've been teaching that for years. Not many people are teaching that. That's brilliant." And writing down your goals. Harvard did a study that 3% of people the only 3% of people write down their goals and and confess it. Robert Chowini was in this room not so long ago, a great friend of mine. And this idea of commitment and but but what I told him is there's people in your life that you didn't get to choose as your friends.

9:20 You grew up with them. Family, friends, and family. Yeah. You know, there's people going to say, "What about the 12-pack of beer that we drink every night?" Misery loves misery. They're going to bring you down, but they don't realize they're doing it. They don't realize they're these toxic people. And sometimes it's family. Sometimes it's a parent. Yeah. Sometimes. So, what what do you do to kind of self-examine that? What do you do to kind of Is it just a reflection? Do you do you whiteboard it? I mean, how do you know if somebody is an engine or an anchor? I I think it's a mindset. I think I think you really need to think about it in terms of the mindset that I'm going to describe to you. And this is this is really the premise of the book. Who's in your room?

10:01 Imagine you live your life in one room. One room. That one room has only one door. And that one door is an enter only door. So that when people come into your room or into your life, they're there forever. You can never get them out. Now, luckily, one would say that's a metaphor, but I would argue it's not because when you let people into your room or into your life, now you made a point. Sometimes family, they're just in your room, but when you let people into your room, um they they're going to have an impact on on your life. And so, you know, I have people who say, "Well, I can get them out of my life." Okay. So, what I'd like you to do, Tommy, is think about somebody who is toxic in your life. And if you're watching this, I want I want everyone to think about somebody who was absolutely toxic in their life and they got them out of their life. I want you to think about what it was they did. Now, Tommy,

11:01 do you have somebody in your mind? Yeah, I do. Okay. Now, I I'm not going to make you name the person. Just between us, so we're good. Keep them in your mind. I want you to think about the last thing they did that just ticked you off so much you were like, "That's it. They're out of my life." Do you have that? Yep. Okay. So, here's the deal. If they're still in your head, they're still in your room and they will be for the rest of your life. It's more than a metaphor. I spoke to Dr. Daniel Aean, interviewed Dr. Daniel Aean, the neuroscientist, psychologist, psychiatrist who um has done a lot of brain uh science and he said when you have a relationship with someone, business or professional, their fingerprints are all over your brain.

11:51 And so it's you really have to be careful about the people that you let into your room or into your life. And by the way, this is even though this isn't a networking concept, this is a networking concept because who are you going to bring into your network? You want to bring people into your network that are engines, not anchors. People that that rise the tide that don't bring you down. And so, um, in the book, we talk about what do you do with people that are in your life that you that you you you may you may have gotten them out of your life, but they're but they're still in your head. Um, and how do you deal with those people like family members? You want you want a good example of what I'm talking about? I'd love one. All right. So, We have two editions of the book. The first edition came out and someone who read the book sent me an email that was gold. It was publishing gold. She said,

12:46 "Thank you so much for this book. It's really helped me think about first of all my val what are my values?" Because you you gota you got to know your values to determine who you let in your room or who you don't let in your room. And by the way, the room I pointed at a door, but the room starts here and ends here. It's your mind. It's your brain. It's people you let into your head for a relationship. And so she said, "We had a family member who would always come to family events. We had big, big family events." And she would throw in this verbal hand grenade that would just rile people up and people would start arguing and fighting and there'd be crying and people would leave upset. And we had conversations with her and said, "You can't you can't do that. that that's you just got to stop that. But she wouldn't she'd keep doing it. So she said, I read I read the book and and we we figured

13:40 out what to do. And one of the concepts that we have in there is benign neglect. You you just like ignore. And so she said, I got I got my whole family together. And we agreed that the next time she throws in a verbal hand grenade, we're all anybody who could hear her would turn to her and say, "Oh, okay." And then turn back to whatever conversation you're having and completely ignore the hand grenade. And so the next time she came to an event, to a family event, sure enough, she threw a verbal hand grenade. Pe like four or five people looked at her and they all did it. They all went, "Oh, okay." and turned back and had their conversation. So, she riled nobody up. Guess what happened? She stopped coming to a lot of the family events.

14:30 And the ones that she did, she didn't throw in verbal hand grenades anymore. And so, there are techniques that you can use for people that are in your life, but you you should have, you know, you don't want them you don't want them in your room, but they're there. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna show you something that I've learned. And I taught myself this. This is obviously a cell phone. And it rings quite often. And yeah, when I look at it, the first thing I think about is my feeling. Am I excited to take this call? Is this going to be good news? Is this is this something that's going to lift me up? Is this somebody that's going to bring me up? Is it somebody that's going to be genuinely caring? They're going to tell me the truth, good or bad. But the fact is a lot of times if I roll my eyes and I go take a deep breath and go here we go. Then I know it's my subconscious telling me if I really reflect and

15:23 there's days that like it could be anybody calling and it could not be good news. I mean god forbid it's a doctor calling about one of my parents or something, you know, and I it's not it doesn't work every time, but there's certain people Yeah. in your life. And but there's also people that you're like, when I'm around this person, I feel the best about me. They lift me up. They fill up. They fill me up. Yes. And I just feel like And then there are others that do nothing or bring you down. Well, I I you know, and I think it's a defense mechanism. I think it's kind of the nature versus nurture. I think they were nurtured into a way that nobody loved them. And I do believe I you know what I've always said is it's not their fault. I don't blame them. I don't have this resentment, but I don't give them any space in my mind.

16:09 And I know that's the subconscious does its work and I realize that. But uh when I'm at a I think people can I think people can pull themselves out of those bad experiences, but it's difficult and mo honestly most people can't. I have met people who have have said I am not going to let my horrible life experiences define who I am as an individual and though I admire those people so much. It's very difficult to be one of those people. Well, you look at Joe Paul, you know, Joe Paul is a mutual friend and I think he's had to he's he is ironically I just spoke to him today by email. Oh, really?

16:53 That's great. I mean, he's the biggest connector I've ever met as far as one single human being. I don't know how he does it. I think he lives on his Apple and just messages people, but uh and I don't think he knows how to delegate that, but it's harder to delegate a relationship and he's just a ultimate connector. But he's gone through a lot in his life and I think that's why he's kind of paying it forward. But he doesn't blame anything. Everything happens to us for a reason. And I do believe what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's just me and you could live the same situation. My mom and dad got a divorce and my mom worked three jobs. I could tell you a nightmare, but I could also tell tell you a miracle story. Same exact life. You could have lived it right next to me. You could have twin brothers, twin sisters, live the exact same life with a whole different perspective. Whole different

17:37 perspective. Yeah, I I I totally get it. I I I think you know, you look at situations like that, challenges in your life or failures that you make yourself, which by the way, I've made a lot. Um I think failures I I I choose to define myself by my successes now. My failures are my tuition for success and I've paid a lot of tuition over the years um in order to be s people think oh you're successful this big organization you know you had it handed to you. No I didn't have anything handed to me. I put myself through college. Um, I, you know, I I I I worked midnight till 7 in the morning through graduate school at a at a grocery store to get myself through college and and along the way I had a lot of problems and challenges, but those those things what what you don't what doesn't kill you makes you stronger is I I agree completely.

18:34 You know, everybody tells you how hard you work and you don't make time for people are the same people that tell you how lucky you got. You know what I'm saying? Isn't that funny? I do. I had I had a young man who was standing in front of my house. This must have been 20 years ago. And he was looking at my house and he said, "Wow, you're really lucky." And I'll tell you what I said to him. I said, "You can be just as lucky as I am. You don't have to do the exact same things, but these are the these are the things I did to get lucky." He said, "What?" I said, 'Well, I went to school for 10 years. I got um a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, and a doctoral degree in in or in management, organizational behavior. Then I wor at that point um you know, I was working 20 25 years. I said I worked for 20 25 years, 60 hours a week. Um I took multiple loans on my house. I almost bank went bankrupt once or twice. I've

19:34 written at that point I think I had written like 10 books. I've written 10 books. Um, and I probably had a couple of other things that I added to it. And I said, "If you do all of those kinds of things, you too can be as lucky as I am." And do you know, Tommy, he he didn't get it. He was like, "Yeah, okay, fine. Got it." He didn't get it. The harder you work, the luckier you get with one with one addition. You You also have to make good choices. I know people who work hard, make bad choices, and have a horrible life. You got to work hard, and you got to make good choices.

20:12 I tell people all the time, I'm like, there's there's divine intervention. I must be the luckiest guy alive. I've always worked hard, but everything seems to always go in my favor. I mean, I don't know why I'm in the right rooms. You know, Joe will introduce me to Because you're in the right rooms. I had a guy say to me years ago, you know, I I I got this he he was he was in BNI. He was like, I'm I'm not sure I'm not sure these referrals that I'm getting are are you know, working. And I'm like, you're getting a you're making a lot of money in BNI. I I knew how much he was generating. And and he said, yeah, but they're all by chance. I said, tell me how they're by chance. He said, 'Well, I mean, this member, this BNI member was at this location and he just happened to bump into somebody who happened to need the service that I offer. And he referred me and then and so he gave me two or three examples and they were all

21:09 sort of by chance. And I said, well, how many meetings how many years have you been a member of BNI? So, I've been a member five years. I said, okay, so you've been a member five years and you there's roughly 50 meeting 50 meetings a year. So you've been to what 250 networking meetings over the last five years and you've built the relationships with these people. Yeah. I said, man, there's no luck in that. That didn't happen by chance. You built those relationships. You were in the room building the relationships with people who went out of the room and they met somebody and came back because they trusted you. They referred you. Very little luck in that. It's hard work.

21:54 Yeah. No, I I agree with you. And that's one of the things that I try to do, Ivan, is is I ask for help all the time. I'm not afraid to ask for referrals. I'm not afraid I'm not afraid of rejection. I literally walk into a room, I got my heads tall. I don't stutter. I don't say I'm liking, you know, a lot. I literally tell people why they should do business and I'm going to back that up. The one thing I don't do and I really want to talk to you because you've seen so much of this networking is I meet those people that I go into a room and a lot of it a million times at BNI and they're the people I want to stay away from is they'll run up to you and they'll pass out their card because if you're visit I visit to a lot of them because we're in literally 40 markets and they're running up and they're like I do this and every event they go to they got a stack of cars and they're going basically call me

22:42 call me call me it's generally I go into a couple rooms and I like there's few people I've already identified that I want to meet and build a relationship with. And I I you know, I I know that if you're doing massages and you're a florist, you probably want to meet everybody if you're a trainer. But but certain people, if you're a a legal consultant on real estate, you're probably not wanting to meet everybody in the room. So, what do you find is the success pattern? Who's the most successful at these groups and how do they do it? What over the years that you've seen the most successful? It's consistency, I'm sure. But what what would you say?

23:21 Well, first of all, I would say I would say that the people you're talking about I called card dealers. They're just they're just passing out cards and and that doesn't work. I I mean people that doesn't it really doesn't work. I mean, it's okay to pass out your card. That's fine. But expecting to get business by passing out your card um is not effective. Uh, so one of the books I wrote, um, Networking Like a Pro with Brian Hillyard, he tells this great story about that and then I'll get I'll get to your question on what you should do. He tells this great story about cards. He he has a dog named Brandy. It was it's a Labrador, beautiful, friendly, friendly dog. And he said, 'If that if the card thing would work, what I would do is I would put a little cloth saddle on Brandy and on one side I'd have a little sign that says, "Take one of my cards here. Take a card here." And on the other side, I would say, "Put

24:16 your card here." And then I would just send Brandy into the room. And Brandy would run around and people would pet her. And then they, you know, they would take a card out, they would put a card in, Brandy would come back out. I'd have a whole bunch of cards. So what? That's that's not even the beginning of a relationship. And and the card dealers don't get that. So this is what they need to get. And it's the foundation of everything I teach with networking. It's called the VCP process. And Tommy, if you've followed my material, you know this, but your your followers may not.

24:54 VCP visibility credibility profit profitability. You have to first be visible. You got to show up. People have to know who you are. They have to know what you do. And then once you uh create visibility in the community, you move to credibility. And that's the one that takes a lot of time. Getting to credibility takes time. It's where people know who you are. They know what you do. Then then they know you're good at it because you have a reputation in the community for being good at what you do. Then and only then can you get to profitability where people know who you are, what you do, and and they know you're good at it. and they're willing to give you referrals based on the relationship that you've developed. So what you need to understand when you're going to a networking meeting and you meet somebody is where am I with this person in VCP. There's a fourth stage which I haven't mentioned which is called

25:47 invisibility. So oftentimes you're at invisibility. They don't know who you are. So at the very least you want to create visibility and and then the next time you see them work work over time to credibility to where you can get to profitability. So you go to networking meetings to work your way through the VCP process. That's what makes networking effectively work. And and I certainly didn't know that when I was young man. I use networking as a face tof face cold calling opportunity. And look even a blind squirrel can find a nut. you'll you'll stumble over business, but that's not networking.

26:24 That's just direct selling. There's a book that you remind me, it just came into my head. I don't know why, but it's called Raving Fans. And when you ever been to like a restaurant or an experience and you might not be a review giver that it seems like people that have a bad experience will always leave a review, but when they feel but what about when you feel compelled you're like this was the most amazing service and no one has to ask you to leave a review. You're like I just want to go and tell the world about this. If we really focused on this worldclass experience, how we answer the phones, how we show up to the client, how the experience is from from the EQ side of it, like our perspective, treating them like gold, caring, uh yeah, it's just I I don't feel like it's so transactional now. And you know, just answering your phone, it doesn't have to be. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. just saying in life it just with

27:20 all these things coming at us and I I'm saying that as a general statement from what it was before you know the the you know the phone came out this and we get distracted by scrolling there's so like the relationships I could be in a room with 10 people sitting right next to you and we're all on our phones you know what I mean yeah well that's yeah that's a problem but I listen it was transactional back in my days in the 20s when I was in my 20s but it wasn't the phone it was you know it was being bombarded with direct mail and bulletin boards and advertising and all of that was distracting. Now technologies made it a little more distracting, but it's still all about relationships. It really is.

28:04 Networking is all about relationships. Networking is more about farming than it is about hunting. It's about cultivating relationships with people that get to know, like, and trust you. And so, um, you're right. We don't often give reviews for businesses that have done a good job for us, which which is interesting. I first wrote about this in in 1994 in a book I wrote called Who's in Your Room? I mean, called the World's Best No Marketing Secret. Um, I said people are more likely to talk about you if they're mad at you than if they're happy with you. The only exceptions were restaurants, movies, and television shows. Restaurants, movies, television shows. people would talk about automatically around the water cooler, but you know, your plumber or your gardener, you don't usually talk about that person. And so that's where the relationships come in. If you build a really meaningful relationship with

29:05 somebody, you're going to do a positive review. Not only that, you're going to look for opportunities to refer that person. This is where relationships mean everything. And you can you can develop the relationship in many ways. I I had this one exercise called the gains exchange where I have people share their goals, accomplishments interest networks and skills. And I had these two guys that had never done business with each other. They'd been in a in a BNI group for eight, nine months together. They both found out they were soccer coaches for their son's soccer teams. Forget about everything else.

29:43 They never finished the exercise. All they did was talk about soccer. Now, in the nine months they'd been in the same group, they had never given each other a referral. But within two or three months later, they had both given each other referrals. Why? Because they both built a relationship and they knew each other. There was this great connection. They were looking out for each other and they referred each other. It's all about relationships now. Yeah. you know, you know, relationships. I speak on a lot of stages. I've written a few books and I realized there's not a day that goes by that 40 people don't reach out on LinkedIn, Facebook, cell phone, and they want to create a relationship. And I also I'm engaged. I've never been married, but we want to have a family.

30:30 Uh there's a lot going on. And and I I try to be fair. People paid it forward for me. I mean, you know, if you think about it, it wasn't that long ago that Michael Gerber was in here and people take the time. Love Michael Love Michael Gerber. You know, I I I used the E-Myth to help create the strategy to build VNI and people So, I kind of feel like people take you you're taking the time for me today and we're we're getting the word out. Uh, and I'm always in the impression of what's in it for them. What can I do for you? And I I just I'm trying to figure out a way and I hate the word balance, but I kind of feel like what I've kind of learned how to do is I do shop tours now. I'm like, if you want to come meet me, come to a shop tour. It's free. But everybody wants my time. And I'm was just wondering, and I I'm not mad about that because I want other people's time as well. I'm just trying to figure out from your

31:20 perspective because you've been down the road further than me and I'm sure you're a very wanted man and wanted to get in rooms and speak and podcast. So what how do you kind of balance that? Well, a couple of things. I do I get requests every single day to do oneto ones. We have 340,000 BNI members worldwide. So as you might suspect, you know, people would love to talk to me. So I when I get the requests, I I I respond to virtually every one of them. I don't have my assistant respond. Um I respond to virtually every one of them.

31:53 And but I have a similar phrase that I use. I say, you know, thank you very much for the the request. Um, a good referral for me would be a cloning clinic. If you could find a cloning clinic that uh, you know, could make clones of me so that I can handle all of these really valuable and important requests, I' I'd appreciate it. In the meantime, let me suggest that you connect with me via my Facebook page, my my public Facebook page, or and then I give two or three uh ways that they can connect with me to a person.

32:29 Tommy, I've been doing this for I've been doing that shtick for about 20 years now. To a person, they respond back and say, "Thank you for replying personally. I'm really impressed. And yes, I will connect with you on wherever it was that I suggested they connect. For example, every year I do I do what's called founders day for BNI. And it's a day an entire day of oneto ones. So it's an entire day of 30 minute oneto ons via zoom and people connect with me for 30 minutes and ask whatever questions they want and and I usually get three 400 people who request and I take everyone who didn't get a onetoone with me and I do it as a group Zoom. So you can get on the group Zoom and you can ask whatever questions with another hundred people or so. So you look for ways to give back.

33:29 You don't look these these are the people I'd like to think I made a difference in their life, but they've also made a difference in my life. And so I don't want to ignore those people, right? I want to as much as possible be there for them. Which reminds me of a concept I'm going to throw in. and then then I'll stop. Um, we all have people in our story, people who've made a difference in our life. I could tell you stories about people that did one thing or many things that just made a massive difference in who I am as a human. But that's actually not the most important thing. It's not who's in your story that matters most. It's whose story are you in that matters most? Whose life have you changed in some small way where years later they say, you know, I reached out to Ivan, he responded. You whatever whatever they're going to say, you've made a difference. I I met with Ivan. I did a onetoone. I did a group

34:40 Zoom. Whatever it is they're going to say. I mean, it's something as simple as I remember a director sticking their head in my office after a training and I I was really busy and they said, "Oh, we just want to see your office. We didn't, By the way, this is my office in Austin, Texas. This is not a background. This is my real office." They stuck their head in my office and they said, "We don't want to bother you. We don't want to bother you." And I I just I don't know why I said it. I've never said it before. I said, "No, no, no. Come on in.

35:06 You guys come on in. this work I'm doing on working on right now will be here tomorrow you won't be so come on in and they came in 10 years later one of them reminded me that I said that 10 years later they reminded me that I said that it's about whose story are you in not who's in your story I got goosebumps when you said that that's that's amazing I um you know I've had people reach out on the brink of uh bad stuff suicide died, divorce, uh losing their children, uh just bad habits, and they said if it weren't for finding you, and that's what kind of keeps me like remembering how many doors were open for me, and I'm just, you know, you could have anything you want in life if you're helping other people get what they want. Yes. Yes. You know that I I love Ziggler, I think, was the first to say that. It was Zig. I got that quote. I actually got a pad of paper. I look at that quote every day.

36:09 And um I was honored to be on a radio interview with him before he passed away and uh he and I did a radio interview together on marketing. I was honored to be on the same airwaves with him. Yeah, he's listen I got so there's so you just know so many people. You've had so much knowledge, so much experience, so much failure as well. I'm curious. You've written a lot of books. When you think about impact, you know, I don't need a lot of friends. I will say that relationships are different. I just want the right people. I want, you know, if I had to give you a list, I don't need a list of a hundred. I need a list of 10.

36:51 Not even, you know, people. I'm just curious when you build a relationship uh and it becomes more than a deeper, you know, do you go after deep deep deep relationships? How do you look at relationships? Well, I think relationships are, you know, commonality of interest. Um, a connection that you don't have to have the exact same values, but the values need to be congruent. They can't be in congruent. So, they can't be dissonant with your values. So, you find people where you have overlapping areas of interest. You build long-term relationships with them. I mean, my closest one of my closest friends I've known for 50 plus years. We stay in touch multiple times a year and I have um one of my past CEOs for BNI I've known for 37 years and you know we stay in touch. So it's it's about touch points with those people. You benign neglect can work both on purpose and by accident. And so you don't want to let

37:56 it happen by accident. You want to make sure and reach out to people and do your best to stay connected with those people. Does that answer your question? Yeah. No, you you you did great. I um what what about what I've always found too, and I just had a guest in here earlier, Russell Brunson, who works a lot with Tony Robbins. We talked a lot about storytelling, but stories stick. and the best storytellers of all time. You get one minute if it's a busy chapter to make an impact and have people remember who you are. Can you talk to me about storytelling and how that's worked for you and how you apply that uh and everything you do?

38:39 Well, stories are sticky. I can't most of my stories I can't do in a minute. Uh they usually take longer. Um I think what makes a great story is a fact information. You're giving somebody a nugget of information, which anyone can do anytime. Um, but you're giving them a fact, but you wrap it in an emotion. That's number two. Fact wrapped in an emotion. And the emotion could be pulling on the heartstrings. It could be making them laugh. I like to tell stuff that makes people laugh. So, you you give them a fact that's wrapped in an emotion. It compels them to take action. When they hear the story, they go, I got to do this. Why am I not doing this? I need to do this. And then when they they take action, it transforms them in some way.

39:28 Those are that's a great story. Fact wrapped in an emotion that compels people to take action transforms them in some way. And when you tell stories like that, you're making a difference in people's lives. Yeah. you know, he he was talking about Tony Robbins and he's like, "What people don't understand is you need to change the way they think. You need to say that change the way they perceive themsel." Cuz I've always been like originally on stage I'd say, "Look, I'm going to teach you guys all the tactics of what I do, whether it's habits, these things that I do to market, these things I do to make clients leave five star reviews." And then I realized the psychology of they need to kind of change the way they think of like these stories about this pivotable moment in your life when you decided you were going to take control or whatever it was. And you need both.

40:18 You need tactical and you need this more systematic approach. And I think people when when when you do put on an event and you're doing both of those and you're you're literally getting people to to to change the way they think and it's storytelling helps replace a negative story in your mind of whether it's network marketing. You know my grandpa used to sell Amway and yeah what do you do with Amway? go talk to friends and family. That's how you built, you know, these MLM type programs. And you know, there's this bad energy out there. But, but if you do it the right way, it's the best thing in the world. It's freedom. It's it's a great thing. You get people underneath you and you help them become successful and you train them. Yeah. There's bad connotations about everything. A lot of people swear by BNI. A lot of people may not have had a great experience their first time, never went back. Uh, yeah.

41:13 You know, BNI, every chapter is different. It's all the people in there. And some people don't like structure and they don't like system and they don't like processes. And I don't care. I have found that you you know, hockey without rules would be boxing on ice. You you got to have systems, right? You got to have processes. And if you're one of those people like, "Nah, I don't want a system. I don't want I want it to be more social." Then BNI is not for you. And God bless you. Good luck. I hope you do well, but I like systems. I like processes. And and regarding your what you were saying about you were kind of saying something that that really resonates with me because when I do my signature talk on networking I talk about mindset and skill set both because if you just launch into skill set and they don't have the right mindset which begins with VCP if you don't under understand VCP and other things mindset

42:11 skill set doesn't matter you whatever skills you're trying to apply aren't going to stick. They're not going to work because you have you don't have the right mindset. So, you start with the right mindset, then you do the skill set. It's a one-two punch and you're going to help generate 25 billion in business for your fellow members. I love I love that. I I I started singing this song before I walked into the BNI meeting from Cheers. I want to go where the people go, where everybody knows my name. And I was making a video. I go, "Nobody knows our name out here.

42:43 Nobody's ever heard of our company. The best place to start and in my video I walked in the BNI. It was a big big chapter in Atlanta. Uh and the lady, I forget her name. I think it was Mary. And she says, "Listen," she said, "Tommy, this is odd, but our garage door, I could use you to come out." The lady that runs all of Atlanta, like the maybe all of Georgia. And she said, "Your guy came out, did a great job. We end up spending a lot of money with you. By the way, I fed your guys." and I walked in and I said, "You know, it's funny of just shaking people's hands and just getting to know them and trying out their services and and I just believe that this marketing is just it's it's not a lost cause, but it's the only thing I know that no algorithm is going to change. It's it's like Google changes, Yelp changes, Facebook changes, mailers change in price." And so people ask me, "What is your number one

43:40 marketing tip?" I said, "Go out and meet the people." You got to go meet the people. Yeah. Networking is a contact sport. You got to get bellyto- belly with people and meet them. And I mean, Zoom's okay. We have chapters that meet on Zoom, but you still have Even our chapters that meet on Zoom do socials where they meet in person. Yeah. Co must have been a little bit rough. Oh, we transitioned almost 10,000 chapters overnight to online. Um, we pivoted. unbelievably quickly. Uh and and it's it's it was an amazing story, amazing experience. And BNI has 40 40 years of consecutive growth. There are very few companies in the world that can say that year on year on year they have 40 years of consecutive growth. But BNI has done that even during COVID because people were desperate for connecting and many people joined during co what do you think so you've you've experienced a lot of leadership whether

44:45 it's a chapter whether it's all the way up I mean there's so many different levels what makes a great leader when you think about the best leaders you've ever worked with well leadership is not about managing and complying it's about mobilizing and inspiring Now, management and compliance are important. So, I don't want to minimize that. But that's not leadership. That's management. And there's a place for management and a need for management. But leadership is about mobilizing and inspiring. It's about getting people really excited about the opportunities.

45:25 I mean, you mentioned COVID. One of the things that I really led with during COVID was this concept and I did it over and over again with members is that your network in this case BNI. It is a beacon of hope in a sea of fear. We live in a crazy world. Take a deep breath. Go to your fellow members. find ways to do business during this difficult time. And so, um, your network is just a way of building relationships and leadership is about mobilizing people, inspiring people to to go out and be the best version of themselves.

46:16 And I think a lot of leaders practice management more than they do leadership. That is by far I I got a big group meeting up in Milwaukee here next week and I'm going to take this piece out because you know this idea of inspiring and talking with passion and smiling and just telling people like how good we live. I always remember, you know, I I've been to a lot of the third world countries and I gotta tell you, I was out I mean, I was out at a lady's house last week and um they were out of town. They were flying back in and the grandmother was there. They were out at Ronald McDonald in New York and this young daughter, five years of cancer and it was I was crying. I was literally crying talking to the grandma.

47:11 And it just kind of brought me to this spot where no matter what goes wrong in my life. It's so good. It's such a great life. I Tomorrow's not promised, but when I'm talking to people, I just got done talking to 40 technicians that are graduating and I said, "You're here for a reason. You deserve so much. Everybody around you that's been patient, your families that have been waiting for you. I'm like, you know how proud I am of you? Today is the day that your life changes. It's Yeah. Welcome to the the first day of your last job. And I get so excited. And then I know what you mean.

47:51 There's those managers in your life that you're like, "Yeah, they make sure you're on time. They make sure you're going through your checklist, but they like a guy just called me and said, "Dude, I'm going through burnout. can you give me a call out of Milwaukee, actually. And I said, "Man, I have no idea what you're going through." He goes, "I wake up every half an hour. My three-year-old can't sleep." He's like, "I don't know what to do. I'm not making enough money." And I said, "Man, I'm always here for you." I said, "I don't know what it's like to have a three-year-old waking up every half an hour. One thing I've learned is instead of setting my alarm clock, I set an earlier bedtime. I've learned to drink more water and get some steps in and reflect and doing these breathing techniques and I I just I'm trying to be the most inspirational person possible.

48:36 I would love any any insight to that because everybody listening to this right now I love the fact that you said management's completely different than leadership and that is so profound. Yeah. And both of them are important. I don't want to minimize the management aspect but it's not leadership. Leadership is is different. You could be a manager who is a leader, but what happens is managers tend to be very transactional and be focused on the management rather than focused on leadership and you know the higher up you are in an organization the more the mobilizing and inspiring is important.

49:11 Well um yeah I just I I want to know look with private equity all these companies there's so much there's such a need for leadership and I don't think you could just find them. I think you need to build them. And I'm just curious your thought like like I go outside of the home service, home improvement industry and what is your take like like everybody's begging for leadership training and if you were to talk about worldrenowned leadership training I I guess the question is what how do you identify leaders? How do you build them? What character traits do we look for? What what's going to make an impact? Hand hands down, I' I'd recommend um John Maxwell's training without a doubt. I know John, met him several times. Uh I was honored to be recognized as one of his transformational leaders of the year a few years back. Um hands down, I'd recommend his training. I'd also recommend his book, The 21 Irefutable

50:17 Laws of Leadership. I uh taught for several years at Concordia University in the MBA program on leadership and that was the book I used to teach with was the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. Now that I I studied under Warren Bennis, who was in his day the world's leading expert on leadership at USC, and so I I got a little bit of a hands up with with Warren, but John's material is second to none. No, it's fantastic. I I always ask myself the question that, you know, everything bad and good falls on me. It's complete ownership. Like, yeah, if we get in a car accident, I can't point the fingers. I got to point these fingers. I don't have a safety program.

51:04 We're not doing the right stuff. Like, every single thing I think a lot of people they want, they want it both ways. They want the their cake and eat it too, or whatever that expression is. And I I always tell people, listen, everybody wants the views, but no one wants to take the hike. You know, the the hard work, the discipline, the consistency, the showing up when you don't want to show up. And if I'm upset, Ivan, if I walk in with a frown or I'm hunched over or my desk is a mess or they everyone goes, "What's wrong?" Like, like I show up, I'm smiling, I zip it up. No matter how my day is going, I walk with an with an inspiration. I walk in with a big smile. I try to ask people how their day is going, and I genuinely mean it. I I've got a lot of work to do. I'm a work in progress. I'm nowhere to where I want to be. I'll never reach that pinnacle.

51:52 It's always a moving target. But I I I want people I'll never tell people to believe in Jesus. I'll invite them to church, though. I'll never tell people to to to do anything. But hopefully they see me working out and taking care of myself and they ask me, you know, can you tell me a little bit about this? Because my job is just to inspire them to ask me. Well, I think that's uh it's a good approach. Absolutely. Uh I know we need to wrap up. Can I leave you with one last thought? Absolutely. Yeah. No, I really appreciate your time. Yeah.

52:27 Listen, my my truly my pleasure. I'm happy to come back anytime. I'm working on a book right now called Garage to Global. How do you take your business from your garage to a global enterprise? So, that's good. That's great. I'd love to do a podcast when you're when you're releasing that. Uh, you know, I'll buy a 100 copies. I I'll I'll help you with anyway. Well, then I definitely want to do a podcast with you. Uh, let me leave you with one last thing. Of all the years I've been in business, and you know, it's been 40 years now for BNI. By the way, I had somebody recently say to me, 40 years, it's such an honor to be part of an organization that's 40 years old and the founder is still alive. I'm like, thank you. I appreciate that.

53:10 Yeah. But my experience in dealing with businesses over the last 40 years is if you want to be successful, you got to do six things a thousand times. Not a thousand things six times. And it doesn't have to be six. It could be it could be five. It could be seven. But you got to do a handful of things. And you got to do it over and over and over again. What things? Well, you listen to shows like this. You you read books. You listen to podcasts of people that are virtual mentors and you figure out what the right things are to do for your business. And then you do them a thousand times. Not just don't do a thousand things six times. Do six things a thousand times. That's the way to scale a business. Best advice ever.

53:52 Simon, if somebody wanted to reach out, is LinkedIn the best way to do that? LinkedIn is great. Uh Facebook, I'm on all the social media uh platforms, but LinkedIn is is a good way. Uh Facebook is a great way. I I probably post more on Facebook than any place else. And of course, I have a blog, ivanmeisner.com. all the content all I have 15 17 years of content up there for free and of course bni.com for anyone interested. Thank you so much for your time today. I when you uh when's that book coming out? Oh I hope sometime next year. I'm working I literally just hung up the phone uh to do this interview. So uh I'm talk I'm working with my authors actively. They're coming out to visit me here in Austin next week. All right.

54:38 Well, listen. I'll let you go, brother. and I I can't thank you enough. I hope you have a great day and a great weekend. Great doing the interview with you, Tommy. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Power of Networking: Who's in Your Life? with Ivan Misner"?

Tommy (Host), Dr. Ivan Misner (Guest).

What is "The Power of Networking: Who's in Your Life? with Ivan Misner" about?

Dr. Ivan Misner, founder of BNI and a leading expert in business networking, discusses the transformative power of networking in building relationships and generating referrals. He shares insights from his extensive experience in sales and networking while highlighting the impact of BNI, which has facilitated billions of dollars in business through its vast global network.

What is mentioned in this Home Service Expert episode?

5 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Ivan Misner, BNI, The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, Who's in the Room, Daniel Amen. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Power of Networking: Who's in Your Life? with Ivan Misner"?

The episode runs 55 min; the transcript is about 9,981 words in 69 timestamped sections.

More from Home Service Expert

• All analyzed episodes
• Books mentioned on Home Service Expert
• People mentioned on Home Service Expert
• Sponsors mentioned on Home Service Expert
• Topics mentioned on Home Service Expert