Transcript

Catwoman w/ Jamie Denbo (HDTGM Matinee)

From How Did This Get Made? · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 42 min · 8,873 words · 225 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Catwoman w/ Jamie Denbo (HDTGM Matinee)", an episode of How Did This Get Made? published September 2, 2025 (42 min, about 8,873 words). It mentions 15 people, works and ideas, including Catwoman, Halle Berry, Jason Manzukas, June Diane Raphael, Jamie Debo.

What this episode is about

This discussion delves into the shortcomings of the 2004 film "Catwoman," highlighting its improbable plot elements, lack of character development, and overall execution. Featured guest Jamie Denbo joins hosts Paul, Jason, and June to explore the film's awkward moments and question how such a well-known character could result in a poorly received work.

Key takeaways

  • In a world full of narratives, Catwoman's thin premise leaves us wondering—can sheer charm carry a plot?
  • When superheroes drop their baggage, you get Catwoman: an unadulterated celebration of art's chaotic mediocrity.
  • Halle Berry's duality: from nerdy girl to feline femme fatale. Apparently, transformation requires a suspicious walk.
  • Cosmetics in Catwoman fail to create hype; perhaps no one cares about makeup unless it's served with drama!
  • It’s ironic: Catwoman's beauty masks a deeper failure in storytelling—a classic case of style over substance.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Catwoman, Jason Manzukas, Halle Berry, June Diane Raphael
  2. – 10:00: Halle Berry, Sharon Stone, Alex Borstein
  3. – 15:00: Catwoman, June Diane Raphael
  4. – 20:00: Catwoman, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Halle Berry, Sharon Stone
  5. – 25:00: Catwoman, Francis Conroy, Oilia Powers
  6. – 30:00: Sharon Stone, Catwoman, Halle Berry
  7. – 35:00: Catwoman, Halle Berry, Alex Borstein, Oilia Powers
  8. – 40:00: Catwoman
  9. – 42:11: Jason Manzukas, June Diane Raphael, Jamie Debo

Notable quotes from "Catwoman w/ Jamie Denbo (HDTGM Matinee)"

  • How Did This Get Made? The show where we try to make sense of the movies that make no sense. I am joined as always by Jason Manzukas. How are you Jason?
    about Jason Manzukas · at
  • So, Halle Berry, who's dressed like Raggedyanne in the beginning of this movie, needs to get an ad.
    about Halle Berry · at
  • Girl related. She couldn't actually do anything. The other thing is Catwoman is in the comics, and I know they're not adhering to any comic thing, like is a villain, you know? She's a thief. She steals stuff. She's like a bad guy. Cat.
    about Catwoman · at
  • But I think that's interesting when talking about the whole feminist nature of it. the rest of the podcast should be a feminist appraisal of the movie Catwoman.
    about June Diane Raphael · at
  • Well, if they actually adhered to what Catwoman is. I mean Michelle Holly Berry could have done it. I think it's interesting that girl with the dragon tattoo is so in the…
    about Girl with the Dragon Tattoo · at
  • She should have been. She's great. She's awesome. She does exactly what she's supposed to do. She is [ __ ] gorgeous.
    about Sharon Stone · at
  • So she goes to Francis Conroy, Oilia Powers, who was really upset with the men in the world, who lives in the up house.
    about Oilia Powers · at
  • Goes is it cuts to her. The whole movie ends. Sharon Tone dies. The press conference cuts to her outside with Alex Bournestein painting a mural of a cat on a building and there's kids helping a giant cat mural.
    about Alex Borstein · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Halle Berry — Person · Primary referenced actor (star of film under discussion) · 8 mentions · first at
    Central to the episode because the hosts/guest analyze her performance, character portrayal, and her Razzie acceptance for the film being discussed (Catwoman).
  • Jason Manzukas — Person · Co-host · 3 mentions · first at
    One of the regular hosts of How Did This Get Made?; drives the conversation, jokes, and critiques of scenes, logic, and performances.
  • June Diane Raphael — Person · Co-host · 3 mentions · first at
    Regular co-host; contributes analysis especially around gender/feminist critique and how the film markets/frames Catwoman.
  • Jamie Debo — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    Introduced as the episode’s special guest; participates throughout with reactions, jokes, and critique of the film’s choices and themes.
    And your podcast the Ron and Bev podcast. Where can people find that?
  • Sharon Stone — Person · Referenced actor (principal supporting/villain performance) · 7 mentions · first at
    Discussed as a standout element of the movie; the hosts repeatedly cite her line delivery, villain role, and screen presence as a highlight despite the film’s flaws.
  • Alex Borstein — Person · Referenced actor (supporting friend character in film) · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed heavily as the portrayal of the protagonist’s friend (Sally), including criticism of characterization, dialogue, and how the film uses the character for comedic beats.
  • Benjamin Bratt — Person · Referenced actor (male lead/love interest in film) · 1 mention · first at
    Appears throughout the discussion as the love-interest/cop character; used to critique plot logic (wallet scene, school talk, basketball game) and the film’s gendered storytelling choices.
    And Benjamin Brat, which we should just back up for a second and talk about Benjamin Brat. Benjamin Brat finds Halle Berry while he's on his way to work one morning. Halle B is out on a ledge trying to save a cat, but he thinks that she's.
  • Oilia Powers — Person · Referenced fictional character (from film) · 3 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the character name associated with Francis Conroy’s role; used in discussion of lore exposition and the film’s odd naming/plot devices.
  • Francis Conroy — Person · Referenced actor (supporting/exposition role in film) · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed in connection with the character Oilia Powers and the film’s lore dump; referenced as part of the movie’s odd choices and backstory delivery.
    So she goes to Francis Conroy, Oilia Powers, who was really upset with the men in the world, who lives in the up house.

Concepts & topics

  • Catwoman — Concept · Core topic · 24 mentions · first at
    Main subject of the podcast episode, discussed in depth regarding its portrayal in the movie and comic books.

Media & podcasts

  • Happy Endings — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a recent work of the guest, Jamie Debo.
    This person is hilarious. You may have recently just seen her on Happy Endings. very talented writer, comedian, actress. Please welcome Jamie Debo.
  • Ron and Bev podcast — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the podcast hosted by the guest, Jamie Debo.
    And your podcast the Ron and Bev podcast. Where can people find that?
  • Girl with the Dragon Tattoo — Media · Referenced work · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as a comparison to Catwoman in terms of female-centric action movies.
  • Monster's Ball — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of Halle Berry's career and her Oscar win.
    This movie is recent. She won the Academy Award and then did this movie.
  • Electra — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned alongside Catwoman as examples of missteps in representing women in comic movies.
    Well, there is but there is like that's an era. This movie and Electra are the two movies in which they make so such dread. It is truly missteps of like comic movies completely misunderstanding how to represent women in movies and.

Full transcript with timestamps

Sinister face cream, diamond claws, a perfect basketball game. There are so many reasons for me to be me out, but I keep on being pur back in. We saw Catwoman, so you know what that means.

Now it's time for a good time. celebrates a failure, not just a hater, cuz you wonder how did this are made. Let's blow in the mediocrity of some art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made?

Hello, people of Earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made? The show where we try to make sense of the movies that make no sense. I am joined as always by Jason Manzukas. How are you Jason?

I'm good Paul. What is happening? Not much. And June Diane Rafield. How are you?

Hi Paul, I'm good. How are you? Uh, as always, so delicate. So delicate. I'm a delicate flower.

As always, we have a very special guest. Um, this person is hilarious. You may have recently just seen her on Happy Endings. Uh, very talented writer, comedian, actress. Please welcome Jamie Debo.

Hello. Hello. Are you doing this whole thing in character? What character? Maybe my whole world outside this is character. Uh oh.

Oh man. And uh and your podcast uh the the Ron and Bev podcast. Where can people find that?

They can find it on the iTunes. It's hilarious. Um, Catwoman. Oh my god, guys. Oh, brother.

Wow. How have we not done this movie yet? It's amazing. I knew we were in trouble just from the beginning with like the faux enya music over like the Ken Burns documentary on

That was the longest opening credit sequence I've ever seen. I knew we were in trouble when the director had one name.

V. Well, I just feel it it's the from the very beginning we had a very thin premise like a thinness that went through the whole thing

which is mean which means nothing because this is an this is a character who has a very rich history

or should like Catwoman it's not like it's not like an artificial character like this is a a comic book character who's been around forever.

They decided not to do anything DC with it. They're like, "We're not going to adhere to anything that you know about

that." But except to say that there have been many cat women. So, we can get away with this because this is just one Catwoman story.

One of the stories of the many cat. And so basically I'm sorry to jump ahead. I'm so sorry. Was Francis Conroy a Catwoman?

We're just an expert on Catwoman. We should get to it. Oh, you mean you mean Oilia Powers?

Okay, sure. Her name is Oilia Powers. Do you feel them? Oh, feel your powers. We We'll get into a lot to talk about with the names, too.

Um, so basically, this movie starts off with uh Halib Berry being, you know, that typical nerdy girl who just bumps into everybody.

The walk. It was all about her walk as patients. just always apparently all nerds or loser women who are lonely but gorgeous uh hold their wrist hold their sleeves in their wrists like they're trying to put on a coat and not get their

There's a lot of body work in this movie in general a lot of a lot of physicality when she's her ner when she's patient and nerdy you're right it's all stiff armed high shoulders and then when she's camera woman it's like Miss Jay from America's Next Top Model came in and was like girl this is how you need to do this

also as as a nerdy girl. She's always always bumping into people. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry.

Basically, did you guys think she was basically not to draw comparisons again, but it's like she and Sandra Bulock in All About Steve. It's the same kind of like mannered uh this is how I'm going to be unattractive nerd girl.

Gorgeous women having no idea how to act uh not gorgeous. Exactly. No idea. It's like she I honestly felt she was constantly trapped in a pose of like when a little girl goes like I felt like I just that was the sound that came out of her body.

Well, I also wanted this is what before we get into the the meat of the movie. I This is another movie that thing that drives me crazy. It happened in the Smurfs which we saw. Um which is

why don't point to me when you say Smurfs. You pointed right at me. Oh, the Smurfs, Jason, which you uh which you

do not out me as a Smurf right now, bro. Don't do this to me, bro. uh which is the fact that a cosmetic company is like the like everyone is waiting for this new cosmetic and they have a building in New York City and everyone it's all it's all over the news. It's the only thing going on and and yet they never really show like the world expecting it. So, it's this presumption that the world is expecting it and all the shots are like the long shots of the building and the face and the announcement and when's the actually the only people who seem to want this product are people who already work at the company

and who already are using it who are jamming it on their faces like it's like a [ __ ] a moment for Alex Bourstein who I have to say is maybe and I feel badly saying this but the most unlikable friend funny friend character I've ever seen.

How do you mean? What are you talking about? I do want to say we can speak freely about all these people because in a very classy way and we're going to play this a little bit later.

Classy today, you guys. Let's keep it classy. Hi Berry did accept her razi and brought Alex Bournestein with her and they all kind of were like, "Yeah, we know." Like so so everything with the character of Sally. I feel like we could spend this whole time just simply talking about

when she's just making calls from the hospital just like, "Girl, what are you doing right now? She's in a hospital in a nurs and wearing pigtails, which I think was one of the most upsetting things to me.

So, she's always so horny. Oh, so horny. She's kept trapped in Alex's Alex Borsine's body. It's so awkward and weird and uncomfortable and she's a little racist.

Oh, yeah. She's Every time she talks to Halib Berry, she's like putting on She calls her chocolate a lot, right?

Brown sugar. Brown sugar. He's like, "Oh, did you see your man yet? Did you like [ __ ] him?" She's like, she's so randy.

Very invested. Very invested. Way too invested. This is a best friend who bought her a leather catsuit, which good thing she did. Uh for She goes for dating emergencies.

Sally didn't buy that for her. She and the gay friend. Oh, that was a that was a joint gift. I didn't realize that was like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It said for dating emergency gay friend who came over, the sign just goes, "Yay!" every time something all of his lines got cut.

So basically, cuz people were like, "We can't have a gay guy in this movie. You guys know that, right? You're going to have to cut him almost completely.

Well, the gay guy who says when he sees Benjamin Brat, he goes, "Ooh, look at this man sandwich."

That's the same guy. So, you get one, which does not mean anything. That would mean two men, right?

I know. I did get confused by that. What is a man? Well, one solo man is not a man sandwich.

I think he was just saying like like I'm hungry for that guy. Like, well, now I understand it now that we're talking about it. But it was a moment where I was like a sandwich. There's several people.

Yeah, that's what I would say. Like if you were like, "Oh, I would like a man sandwich." I would think, oh, that's a couple of dudes.

Yeah. Yeah. Like the Voltageio brothers from Tajio. A man sandwich. Correct. Good call.

Have I revealed too much? Not at all. Not enough. Nope. Not enough. So, uh, Halle Berry, who's dressed like Raggedyanne in the beginning of this movie, uh, needs to get an ad.

She's She's She's an artist for an ad company who's given up her art. She's like, I wanted to be an artist. She sold out. She lives in like a multi-million dollar loft.

Yes. Oh, yeah. That loft is amazing. I actually was glad about that choice because I did think, all right, well, she has sold out, so we have to see where she would have spent her money because I felt like when they they started on closeup or something in her loft, I was like, I'm going to pull away and it's going to be like a dinky little like at least Okay, she paid for something, right? So, I like that logic. She's doing good. She's doing though. We we open

and I do have a couple other things that I genuinely loved about this. Oh, me too. I did too.

And I love that Sharon Stone. Oh my gosh. Amazing. Amazing. She was amazing. Amazing for for all the right reasons.

Yes, absolutely. I have to say the first outfit Halle Berry is wearing as patients is the craziest ass thing.

It's a free shopping bag. It's very echofriendly. It is just they just put layers and layers of clothes on her.

There's no rhyme or reason to that outfit. There's the front is in the back is in the front. It is the artist. She is an artist. She's in a smok.

But by the way, she's also Is that her smok? No, no, no. I'm saying that I'm genuinely asking. I thought maybe that was a smok. I think that I think they might have been trying to start a fashion trend of

smoks. Okay. And she wore that outfit two days in a row. So did Alex Bourstein. She was in the red thing. I noticed that, too. I was like,

that's got to be that's got to you know what I I'm bet it's an edit problem. I bet they were like, you know what? Let's split this in half. We'll put this over here, this over here. But they're wearing all the same clothes. Nobody will notice this movie's horrible.

Well, also, here's the thing. They'll be too focused on how bad the movie is to notice this. Well, the we we are not even into the first 10 minutes yet.

I could talk forever about the first 10 minutes. I mean, it's amazing. So, basically, her boss, who is so arch, uh he makes arch people look uh like nothing. Like, I mean, he's so cool.

Every line he delivers, every line Sharon Stone is a is the cap. It's the Yippi Cay [ __ ] line. So, every line is game over. How would you know you're a cat person? Like it's just all feels like every line. There's no dialogue of like, "Hey, how you doing?" Like none none at all.

It's all to the top. And so they're releasing this product which is going to be more more important than soap. Yep.

Uh is what they say in the movie. And uh so Halle Berry has like a beauty cream.

Yes. It's like an anti-aging anti-rinkle cream which has some pretty crazy properties which we'll get into. Um basically she Sally's just like lathering it on her face. She's like I can't get enough of this stuff.

Yes. Although in the very next scene, she lathers it on her face and then says immediately, "I can't get enough of this stuff." And then says, "Oh, I've been having terrible headache."

I know. The next line. And meanwhile, Hal Bear's like, "You know, that stuff's experimental. You shouldn't even have that."

Well, every single line also feels like a studio note. Like they took every studio note. It feels like that came along. Every single one of anyone going to understand this, we should put in another line to explain it. All right.

I hope one of those studio notes were, "Hey, we don't understand how she gets her powers. Can you have a cat make out with her dead body?

Like what? How can we get the transference? Can we actually have the cat lipto lip with a hal berry?

That is one of my favorite scenes. Like Sleeping Beauty kiss her back to life. It

the cat blows out this breath. Well, the whole reason why she dies is because she needs to get an ad done by midnight and so no messengers can deliver it to the headquarters. Uh

which is also the factory. Why? That's the other thing is like why couldn't she

why do they need to bring it to the factory which she wasn't even there for. It's also kind of on an island.

Yeah, the factory is on an island and it's also like a basement lab is the only place she can wander into.

Yes. Uh which she's like I got to drop off these uh designs. I might as well go to a basement secret basement lab

and and there are clearly uh security guards all the way around because they come chasing after her. They don't stop her and she sneaks in through the back wayoop. So, and she uncovers the plot that me that where they say the skin cream eats away your flesh and this is a bad skin cream. Like, well, [ __ ] it. We need to release it.

By the way, it's one of the best scenes because there's a scientist there who's I guess testing this cream. Who says like look you guys, I can take a lot of things. He's like, I've lived with the headaches it causes. I've lived with the addiction. I've lived with the side effects, the nausea. He's like, I cannot live with this. Who is this guy that he can live with any of that? but it can't live with their face being

decomposed. Yeah. I also again like the stakes of just releasing a beauty cream. Like to what? Why?

In what world is this that important? It's like I've never seen Clinique take over like the new

You know what? I actually thought it was really offensive because I felt like they were taking this female like superhero and then making her have to deal with something that was like

girl girl related. She couldn't actually do anything. The other thing is Catwoman is in the comics, and I know they're not adhering to any comic thing, like is a villain, you know? She's a thief. She steals stuff. She's like a bad guy. Cat burglar.

She's a cat burglar. Exactly. Um and and to make her be like a good guy who's like like like rescuing women from like a beauty product is absolutely so demeaning.

I didn't know that was Catwoman cuz I was thinking that the whole time like is she good or bad? Yeah,

because she does steal. gives it back, but then she does keep that necklace. That's But that's why they had to make that that was the only way to fill out flesh this out, I guess, in some way because honestly like

it takes like 20 minutes to get to the bad guys. Yeah. This movie is 9 hours long. It's very long for an 88 minute movie or whatever. It's like it's like 103 minutes, but it feels like a lifetime is crazy.

But I think that's interesting when talking about the whole feminist nature of it. the rest of the podcast should be a feminist appraisal of the movie Catwoman.

Yay, June. Party time. I'm up for it. But is that is that I didn't know watching. I'm like, so who is this for? And who do they think it's for the whole movie? I'm like, so who who is the audience that they think they're getting it? They think they obviously want to get superhero people who are like fanboys,

right? Fanboys and then fan girls up to an a an age when that doesn't necessarily stay stay or for the some women that it stays for, but let's be general. Speak in generals. And then is it for is it for women because it's also like or they think it's for women, right? But they think of power. So

the love story with Benjamin. But that's what was really offensive though about the movie to me too because it's like they did more they spent more time sexualizing her in these super like

when she first becomes the Catwoman and she gets in the costume. They have about a minute and a half long tracking shot that just kind of spins around her body and you're just looking at this costume.

She looks amazing. Amazing. Amazing. But her like the What are her powers? I don't

Her powers are the power of a cat and then also the powers of crazy things. So she can sneak out of a prison by contorting her body cuz cats have very flexible bodies. She can land on her feet all the time.

See that happen a lot. And then when you first see your powers like she has heightened senses. Heightened senses. But do cats have like crazy senses like that where they see birds really closely or like dogs? How about they're gross cats for one second and they do I did think it was both funny and appalling when she was eating the [ __ ] tuna fish.

That was disgusting. I wrote that I was like what the [ __ ] is the hottest woman in the world could be eating tuna fish not sexy

every time she's eating and she's also eating sushi with Benjamin. It's like she control herself. She's like

again a lot of work. There was a lot of acting coach working here and and Halib Berry does talk in her Razzie speech about working with her acting coach on this part.

Um, which is true. It like I loved all the cat physicalization though. I loved it you guys. I loved it. I loved you know what I loved all of the physical stuff. I loved her licking that milk. I did too. And then her lipstick being perfect. That to me was a good superhero moment. I love that.

We didn't even talk about the fact that when she when after she gets transformed into Catwoman, she goes from this you know this uh you know girl who's like on patience Phillips to Rihanna. Like that's it. Her next look is fullon Rihanna. Rihanna and her dressing the hair is exactly the same. I actually thought I think Rihanna is stealing from Catwoman.

Well, she has to be cuz it's dated. It's the same thing. Yeah. But what's crazy is when you also when you suggested that when Catwoman came up, my immediate thought was like, "Oh, that's from the '9s. That film I It is only from 2005. Why does it feel Wait, I didn't know this.

I thought this was like 1997. Why is I don't know. This movie is recent. She won the Academy Award and then did this movie. Wait, so she Okay, but she won Monster Monsters Ball like in 2004.

Four and then used the clout to get this done. Oh, see I what's a bummer about this is like I actually think it could have been a really cool amazing I think it could have been amazing.

Well, if they actually adhered to what Catwoman is. I mean Michelle Holly Berry could have done it. I think it's interesting that girl with the dragon tattoo is so um in the zeitgeist right now because I think that if that came out first then this would be kind of an amazing concept cuz I think I do I think that there is something very similar. I don't know why I haven't formed the words that connect any of these thoughts. However,

good and bad. And also that leathery kind of like misfit thing like that should be our [ __ ] cat.

Well, there is but there is like that's an era. This movie and Electra are the two movies in which they make so such dread. It is truly missteps of like uh comic movies completely misunderstanding how to represent women in movies and and market towards their audience that way. you know, like Girl with the Dragon Tattoo or or even like um um Colana, like all of these like female centric action movies or or movies that have like an intensity to them, uh are are much more like they're richer stories. Like I think because these are comic books, people are like, "Well, it's just for fanboys. Put her in a sexy outfit, have her jump around the roof." Yeah.

She's not save there's no crime. You don't get the sense at the end of the movie like she's going to continue to be Catwoman, but there's no there's no crime to it. Like what is she going to do? She's going to fight what?

I feel like she and and Sharon Stone. Sharon Stone, who is so [ __ ] good in this movie.

This is like her comeback movie or wanting to be a comeback movie. She should have been. She's great. She's awesome. She does exactly what she's supposed to do. She is [ __ ] gorgeous. She's a wonderful villain. She is not oddly not overacting. I don't think I feel like she that is just

she's one of the only people who understands the movie she's in. Exactly. Okay. So, Halle Berry has these powers and Benjamin Brat, which we should just just back up for a second and talk about Benjamin Brat. Benjamin Brat finds Halle Berry while he's on his way to work one morning. Halle B is out on a ledge trying to save a cat, but he thinks that she's

before she's turned into cat before. Yeah. She think he thinks that she's a suicide jumper. And then they kind of get this flirtation and now,

and by the way, he keeps on apologizing for thinking that. It's like, don't be sorry about that.

Don't be sorry. She was on a ledge of a building like looking like she was a jumper. Anyway, uh so they get

there's this whole weird line of her being like offended that that was it's like you were hanging out of a building

and then but then he's like, "Oo, I'm late for work." And goes straight to work. Like you were you almost died. You almost died. By the way, when she drops her wallet and they clearly moved the door slamming up so that there would be enough time for him to find the wallet on the floor. Did you notice that? Like why couldn't you just yell her name? You could give her a wallet right now.

Just just down. She was Yeah, you could run down those stairs. Ran right up the stairs. You're a cop. You did it.

You could literally all he had to do is say, "Hey, your wallet." That's as much by the way that's as much effort as it would have taken. Hey, your wallet. By the way, the other thing I think that is important to note is he finds her wallet and then shows up at her work. Cuz as we all know, our wallets have our work address set up. Just like when she finds him at the school he's giving a talk in by being like, "I called the police station. I think you might be here."

And and also at a random school in this city. He's in a random school giving a lecture, but it seems that part of him is uh that he's always at this school, but yet it seems like it's the first time that he's there. He's like, "And apparently strangers can just walk into classrooms in this school and smile awkwardly at the guy talking and then challenge him to a one-on-one basketball game."

But also, what why have we not talked about the one-on-one basketball game yet? And what is happen what is also happening with him in that school? He's like, "Hey kids, don't grow up to be bad. Who wants to play some basketball?" Wait, wait, that's the lecture. It's a half a half cop lecture, half basketball thing.

No, it's a half cop lecture. Hey kids, don't be bad. Half the kids being like, "Show us your gun. We want to see your gun. buddy.

Actually, I have to say I like the choice of him being at that school because I felt what it did was I really did cuz I felt what it did

you like this movie. I did not like it. I thought it was fun. And I liked it because it was also like we're not going to show him like solving a crime and being heroic cuz it's going to take away from our gal. So, we're going to actually put him in this like feminine environment where he's like nurturing. And

so, this one basketball game. Holy cow. Uh, I remember seeing this in the theater.

It's the giggling that she's doing too throughout. And it's it's all shots of her upper body. So, they're in I They never move. They almost never move.

Well, it's a one-on-one basketball game where they never shoot the ball. All they do is dribble. Yeah. And then the only time that there's any movement is when she does it or she does a lot of walks on the walls and stuff. She does a standing jumper, but then somehow she falls on top of him. That's the action of it. She also at one point there's just a closeup of her there's just a closeup a very tight closeup of her ass jiggling. Yes, there is.

There's and there's also there's like shots of her upper body like moving her arms like she's dribbling showing them eye contact and then lower body shots of her like dribbling the ball through her legs like a Harlem Globe Troder which I'm 100% certain was a man.

I'm There is no If you upper body to lower body shots, the lower body shot, she is a man. I guarantee a man did these things.

Man, I think [ __ ] CGI. There's so many parts in this movie where her body is completely CGI. Like when she's running around the city.

Yeah. Everything is just I will say this, the to me the the really genuinely standout good scene in this movie from another movie like was Yes, I did. was uh the ferris wheel scene which was great.

Oh, that's right. From Beverly Hills Cop 3. All right. Well, that's why it was good.

I know. That was not that's not a good sign of being good. But no, that's that that's

because it did everything it should do. It made him on par as an equal someone who is together.

She saved the kid which I thought was a good frankly I thought it was awesome to see her. That's such a superhero move is I loved this.

You're like almost right now. It was um it was a music video too. The whole movie is a music video.

Oh yeah. I mean the music they lost though and I couldn't believe it is this just watching her. There was no like, oh, I'm watching this woman who was patient figure out all of her superhero powers. Like, that's the fun of the movie.

She seems to be oblivious. And her superhero power, I think she's talking about somebody else.

And she's giggling with this basketball stuff. It's like, don't giggle. Like, really? Like, what what is happening right now?

To me, but to me, it's like Superman, Batman, you understand a base of their powers here. I I She can run and jump from building,

right? But but besides that, it was very iffy. It was like She's hungry like a cat, but she's not a cat. But sometimes she's possessed by the cat.

Sometimes she sleeps like a human, sometimes she sleeps like a pillow. Yeah. It's like weird. I loved when she

Oh, we didn't talk about the moment in the movie when she's confused about being a cat that she Googles cat. No, she Googles cats period women.

That's what she Google. How about the conversation of the cops going, "What should we call her? Cat chick.

Cat broad. Cat broad. Cat broad. What jerk? She's wearing open toed sandals throughout all of her adventures as Catwoman. And somebody has created diamond talons for her.

Yeah, because those didn't come in the that didn't come in the box. Like gloves with diamonds on the fingers.

Who are Wait, what are you talking about? So, she is confused. She doesn't want to take on the Catwoman persona just yet. So she goes to Francis Conroy, uh, Oilia Powers, who was really upset with the men in the world,

who lives in the up house. I read that, too. She lives in the uphouse, this little house in the middle of a city

of skyscrapers, a tiny Victorian house, like in the in the midst of like Wall Street, like skyscrapers. And she's in this up house. And this woman is upset with the men in this world because she was denied tenure.

That was like academia. Academia is a man's world. Oh, Paul, you pointed this out, but Midnight the the cat that's by your side the whole movie is like the most uninspired, uninteresting. Casting was terrible for that. And

I don't know who cast that cat. Sometimes they just CGI the cat when the see the cat's not even doing anything. The cat's just standing like looking at the camera. It's all CGI. There's 45 minutes. This is a superhero movie. There's 45 minutes before the first fight sequence.

Yep. Oh yeah. Which takes place. [ __ ] you. But lots of Alex Bourstein just kind of eating

like girl, did you did you meet for coffee with that guy yet? I'm like, you are Alex Bourstein. You are not a black woman. Oh my god. Oh, okay. Jimmy Smith's catches on at one point that uh that Halib Berry and Catwoman might be the same person because they both wrote sorry on she wrote sorry because she missed Ben the date with Benjamin Brat/ Jimmy Smith on a coffee cup.

That scene is amazing. And then and then she also wrote sorry on the bag of diamonds that she stole. She returns it to the diamond place and they're like does this match? Does this handwriting match? I'm not a handwriting expert. I could say this is clearly written by the same exact person. He brings it to a handwriting expert who says it. Does it match exactly? No, it's close. In this first one, you see the space between the S and the O suggests loneliness. Exactly the same.

What? And he goes, it suggests loneliness, but this other one is an adventurous woman, but the other one's an introvert. But this one wants to get revenge. And he goes, man, if you put these two women into a room, you'd have one hell of a party.

Yeah. What the [ __ ] does that mean, dude? What does that mean? Do your [ __ ] job.

Well, also like you put a really antisocial woman in the room with a crazy like a cra like

Holy [ __ ] That and when they Is it the same guy that that studies the scar on his cheek?

Oh yeah. And it's like perfect 99.9% perfect match. That is bonkers. And and he's studying that scar at midnight cuz Benjamin Brad at midnight or they've just had sex, Cali Berry and Benjamin Brat. And then he like Jimmy Smiths and he goes to like he sees something. He goes to the lab but it's clearly like 2 or 3 in the morning cuz they just [ __ ] and they had dinner and it was a late night.

I love that cat sex scene and cat sex. And he brings it the lab is fully functioning. Oh yes like way in the early morning. That's when they got the 99%

we have not talked about when she is going to fully embrace becoming Catwoman. She cuts her own hair with two scissors in like with scissors in each hand. Yeah, it's basically Edward's scissor hand. She's like scissors scissors scissor scissors. I was like, how could you? No, you can't use two sets of scissors to cut your own hair. This why would you even put this in her hair do that?

[ __ ] you. Um, I don't know what it was. I'm down. I wrote down one thing here, but um I think Benjamin Brat said something and I don't Please tell me if you remember this. He goes, "Would your wife would you be upset if your wife did blank blank blank?" And the guy goes, "I would if she was carrying a pizza." Do you guys Oh, if you would you rescue would your wife rescue a cat on a ledge? If the cat was carrying a pizza,

I guess cuz his wife's [ __ ] fat. She's a fat pizza lover. Oh, this movie is so Yeah, that line just stuck out to me as being terrible.

Terrible. Um, so she is I mean this whole So the whole basic premise of the movie is that the skin cream is killing people. Halle Berry wants to find a new

If you stop if you stop right but if you continue if you continue you become Marble become Sharon Stone who is Marble. Yes. She's so she doesn't which leads me to her demise.

Yes. Why does she Agreed. She shouldn't die at all. Yeah, she should just fall to the ground. She should fall to the ground and be like and shake it off cuz why would that hurt?

You guys started changing before she died. Yeah. Why? Because she was scratched.

I can you scratch marble? I didn't know with diamond nails. Yeah. So, she's got diamonds.

Skye's diamond. I love that we're really trying to track this. I love that we're really trying to figure this. By the way, during the fight scene between Halib Berry and Sharon Stone, Sharon Stone does not throw a punch back. She just gets the [ __ ]

By the way, where are they having this fight? They're having a fight in the poster warehouse. It's just like the top floor of this building where they just keep all the old.

You know why women are going to be into this movie? Cuz it's in like beauty and then there's going to be a new model who's younger. Every woman has that problem. Everyone.

Hey, do you guys think when she becomes Catwoman she should have like super like powers? No, not really. But she should now be able to fight like a ninja. Okay. Yeah, she can do she can do that.

There's also a scene and and again we've talked about the woman aspect of this film, but the there's a scene where like loan that Tom Loan, who is Benjamin Brat's character, I think

Sally has a lot to say about that. I think you mean Louis Guzman. Oh, yes. Yes, you're right. Louis Guzman. Um, it confronts Sharon Stone. He knows the the evil plan and and he's caught her in it. Uh, we'll play a clip

because I finally trusted a friend. Yeah, well, your friend just got you killed. Don't be stupid, Laura. You don't want to kill a cop.

I'm a woman alone. I'm used to doing all kinds of things I don't want to do. Give my regards to my husband.

Like they they would throw in these lines like that. She is gorgeous. Sharon Stone is gorgeous and powerful and her husband treats her like garbage because she's over 40

and looks and yeah, she's she looks 10 billion times better than the 25-year-old

beautiful than the other the model who's replaced. He hasn't said anything important to me since he said I do.

I do. I It's all of the pronouncements about like the new campaign and retiring the face of like as though that would be covered in anything. Although I must I do, you know, I have to say the press conference when they finally have it after her husband dies, there's like three photographers there like nothing.

And it's not in like a press room. It's basically in the the the circular room from Doctor Strange Love.

It's like in an evil lair. They're like, we'll have a couple pieces of the media come to the evil layer. Uh the there is a uh there's an alternate ending on the DVD.

Um the original ending, which um actually it's pretty great. So the the movie ends with the Catwoman writing a letter to Oilia Powers and Tom Loan and saying, "Thank you so much for your help."

Isa Morales. Oh, yes. Isa Morales. And uh and so Danny Tjo gets the letter and uh and it basically says, "Hey, look, I'm a Catwoman now. I need to be independent. See you around." Now, meanwhile, I guess she's just going to live in this city and just but not date him. I I don't know. So that's how the movie ends. She's like, "I'm a Catwoman now. I do my own thing. She walks off.

Ambiguous leading room for franchise. Exactly. The way the alternate ending goes is it cuts to her. The whole movie ends. Sharon Tone dies. The press conference cuts to her outside with Alex Bournestein painting a mural of a cat on a building and there's kids helping a giant cat mural.

You know what I'm realizing, Paul? What? They must have been outside that school that they were at before,

right? The the basketball school. Oh, yeah. I didn't realize that perfect. So, they're painting a giant cat mural coming together. It's coming together for me.

And then, uh, Benjamin Brat comes up and goes, "Hey, just so you know, we solve the case. Everyone said that they were guilty and it's all done." And then, uh, he goes, "Why don't you come down? We'll talk." And then they come down and talk. The camera does this insane thing where it's spinning around them. There's no action. It's just a dialogue thing. The camera's spinning almost a point of like nausea. And it's like, she's like, "Can you live with somebody who's a Catwoman?" He's like, "Well, I could do whatever." You know, I'm cool with that.

He's like, "She says, "Cuz I'm pretty complicated." Yeah. He goes, "I like a complicated woman." And that's And

Nancy Myers was like, "Hey, that's a good idea." And then that's the end. The end is that that they go off and then the camera pans up. Yeah. Just go up into the sky that they're going to be together forever and the cat mural is going to be finished painting.

Not only that, but after that, you realize this wasn't like they didn't and Alex burst in behind them going hubba hubba hubba. You did it. She's up on the

on the scalping, not doing anything. just like commenting like, "Oh, this painting is bad."

Isn't she with the hot doctor? Meanwhile, Alex Borson in the al in the alternate ending, she not in the movie. She's

Okay. Delicious. And the strawberry, too. What? Now, Alex Borson, you're led to believe that she's getting sick from the cream, but she clearly stops using the cream and her face is melt off. So,

and she's totally fine with the fact that she's like been in a hospital for 4 days. She's in the hospital more concerned with getting laid than the fact that she's getting Halberry laid. Getting laid. Yeah, it's crazy.

Why does Halib Berry I can't deal with the scenes in this movie where she when she's Catwoman, she just runway rock walks everywhere she goes.

It's as different as you can possibly get from a little kid. Yeah. She just is making it so labored to walk wherever she's. Guys, can I tell you

I think she's walking like a cat and a very sensual way. I loved her physicality.

I just want to I just want to ask you guys, this is a a little a little bit of a trivia question. How many writers uh wrote this movie?

11. Okay. How many you want to say? I looked it up so I shouldn't guess. Okay. Oh god. I'm going to say like eight.

28 writers were involved. How many it took in the arbitration? They nailed it. Okay. But they finally were awarded to three writers and two story credits. But 28 writers were involved in this script at one point.

Wow. 28. Anyone notable? Um, the ones that wrote it were John D. Broncado, Michael Ferris, John Rogers, Terresa Reebeck, Broncado, and Ferris. So, those are the

Wow. Wow. Um, as you can tell, we did not love this movie. But now it is time for a second opinion.

These are cold from Amazon.com. These are five-star reviews of Catwoman. Um, so here you go. This is from Huntsville. If you like Cats or Halle Berry, you're going to like this movie. Jay Harris writes,

"Not both." No. If you like either or, that's enough. If you just like cats and hate Halle Berry, you're still going to like this movie.

Exactly. But if you Yeah. Either or. If you like both, holy [ __ ] Your day just got made.

Here's another version of that quote. As I love both Cats and Ancient Egypt, this was my dream movie. What? So, you like the like two very short montages?

Yeah. Opening montage had some papyrus in it. That's it. Um, this is the other one I really like. I have no idea why some people say this is bad because it isn't. It's actually really good. Definitely good. I'm a guy.

So desperate. Um, and then this is gets a little bit more uh more more serious. It goes, I also like the way this movie treated the duality of what a woman can be if she chooses and her right to choose. Virgin Vamp.

I have recommended this film to all I know who are like me, a pagan. Oh, that's amazing.

And finally, the last one. I There's so many here that were amazing. Um, on one hand, I'm happy because of the bad publicity that I get the DVD of this movie sooner, but on the other hand, I'm saddened because I probably won't get this sequel.

So, this guy liked the bad publicity because he just wanted to get a DVD. God, can I ask Can I ask what is the lore of Catwoman? like how in the comics ages actually there's come. Oh, I see. All right.

But usually she's I mean she's a Batman villain basically, but then Batman is constantly kind of like having a relationship with her. She's very compelling. Uh like she's very she's like a she started out as like a cat burglar, blah blah One thing I also have to say, and maybe I'm wrong, and maybe this is just my personal or female point of view. I feel like Michelle Fefeifer's actual suit is so much sexier than like the the like the SNM and the big tits, like the [ __ ] like pushed up like H Barry, you know, those aren't

all that's not all her. Like it's just and like the sexed up part of it. Like I prefer the the American Horror Story like giant body condom.

No, totally. I'm down with it. I don't know. I thought she looked good. No, she looked amazing. She looked good, but she was like covered in glitter makeup and she looked

very shiny. She looked like she was just walking a runway. Like you were watching a Rihanna concert. It

didn't It didn't look functional is what I'm saying. Also, her head her mask is the worst mask in the history of superhero mask.

Also, cats have fur. I'm just going to say every time she jumped. If she was wearing this, every time she jumped anywhere, her tits would pop out.

Would fall out, of course. Yeah. Which I watched astutely, and they did not happen. That did not happen. As always, we go to you, the audience, to play a part in the show. Uh, last week, we asked you to go on to earrop and record your favorite uh bad pun. That would be like you would pretend that you're Catwoman, maybe you and a friend would get together and do one of the puns from the movie. Like, you know, uh, it's a perfect crime. So, here are some of our favorites puns from Catwoman. Once I've had my claws in you, you'll need to pee with a cat theater.

So good. So good, guys. Right. You're amazing. Uh any uh any final thoughts? Any final thoughts that we didn't cover? Anything that people want to talk about?

Um I I I think that this movie is definitely worth the rental. Oh, it is without a doubt. It's on iTunes.

It's on iTunes and it's on YouTube. I got to say it's outrageous, but It's not a bad Yes, it is. It's a bad viewing viewing experience. It's not a bad viewing experience. It is a fun bad movie to watch. It's campy and silly and you know what it is almost if it were just that much campier and sillier, it would have been awesome.

Yes, it it misses the mark because it takes itself a little bit too seriously. So, like I said earlier,

you think this movie directed by Pet who was just a visual effects guy, which makes sense.

Too seriously, that makes a ton of sense. Yeah, he did. He did three movies. this was one of them. So, it's like and he was all but he's listed crazy credits for visual effects.

I I can only say that I think the final word of this movie is best spoken by Halib Berry and her Razzy speech which we have called together the best parts of. She goes to town and she was going down with this worst actress award. She showed up with her Oscar in one hand and Razzy in the other. But she takes down everyone. Take a listen to that. I've got so many people to thank because you don't win a Rzzy without a lot of help from a lot of people. So, please indulge me and just let me, you know, go through this. Um, first of all, I want to thank Warner Brothers.

Thank you for putting me in a piece of [ __ ] god awful movie. You know, it was just what my career needed. You know, I was at the top and then Catwoman just plummeted me to the bottom. I want to thank my manager, Vincent Serenion. Vince Vince, here he is. Here's my manager, Vincent. I want to say, no, no, listen. This guy loves me. He loves me so much. He loves me so much that and he tells me that I'm the greatest actress there ever was. He loves me so much that he convinces me to do projects even when he knows they're [ __ ]

But that but that's how much he loves me. That's how much he really loves me. And my only advice to you, Vinnie, is next time I do a movie, if if I get a chance to do another movie, um maybe you should read the script before you read You know, just counting the zeros behind the one really isn't enough. You really got to read the script. Thank you. I love you, man. Love you. I want to thank my agent and my lawyers who obviously don't give a [ __ ] They're not here tonight, but love you guys. Love you. Um, I want to thank the writers, all 20 of them.

Thank you for thinking this was a good idea. Obviously, it wasn't, but I appreciate the thought. You thought it was. You tried. Hey, thank you. Um, I want to thank the cast. You know, it's really important in order to give a really bad performance like I did, you need a lot of bad actors around you. So, I want to thank all of them. I also want to thank our director, PTO. You know that one name French guy. Thank you very much. It was a joy to come to work every day and work with him. really. I mean, I didn't know what the hell he was saying, but I'm sure it showed in my performance, but but it was truly a joy and a pleasure. And I also want to thank my acting coach, Ivana Chubik. She just wrote a book called The Power of the Actor. You all should brush out and get it.

Could change your life, too. All right. Thank you guys so much uh for listening. I don't know if you heard what's going on in the next room. I hope you didn't. Uh, as always, uh, you can follow, uh, Jamie, you're on Twitter at

Jamie Dunbo. And, uh, Jason, you're not I'm not on Twitter. June, you're at MissJune Diane.

I am Paul Sheer. Remember to rate and review us on iTunes if you like the show. Thank you very much. Goodbye.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Catwoman w/ Jamie Denbo (HDTGM Matinee)"?

Paul Scheer (Host), Jason Mantzoukas (Host), June Diane Raphael (Host), Jamie Denbo (Guest).

What is "Catwoman w/ Jamie Denbo (HDTGM Matinee)" about?

This discussion delves into the shortcomings of the 2004 film "Catwoman," highlighting its improbable plot elements, lack of character development, and overall execution. Featured guest Jamie Denbo joins hosts Paul, Jason, and June to explore the film's awkward moments and question how such a well-known character could result in a poorly received work.

What is mentioned in this How Did This Get Made? episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Catwoman, Halle Berry, Jason Manzukas, June Diane Raphael, Jamie Debo, Sharon Stone. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Catwoman w/ Jamie Denbo (HDTGM Matinee)"?

The episode runs 42 min; the transcript is about 8,873 words in 225 timestamped sections.

More from How Did This Get Made?

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 26, 2026.