Disclosure w/ Nick Kroll & Emily Altman (HDTGM Matinee)

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on the 1994 film *Disclosure*, which addresses the unconventional topic of sexual harassment experienced by a straight white male character, played by Michael Douglas, in a corporate setting. The hosts and their guests explore the film's themes, its cultural impact, and the broader implications of its narrative while celebrating its mediocrity and comedic missteps.

Key takeaways

• In 'Disclosure,' Hollywood flips the script, presenting male sexual harassment—where's the applause for creativity?
• Demi Moore's hotness overshadowed the film's premise—showcasing how media often prioritizes allure over substance.
• Virtual reality in 1994 looked like a glorified filing cabinet—talk about a technological leap backward!
• This movie serves as a time capsule—reminding us how far workplace dynamics and Hollywood narratives have come.
• Requesting a 'Disclosure' reboot? It’s like wanting a sequel to a VHS tape—nostalgic but fundamentally flawed.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Paul Scheer (Host) · 29 min speaking
• Jason Mantzoukas (Host) · 22 min speaking
• Emily Altman (Guest) · 11 min speaking
• Nick Kroll (Guest) · 11 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Disclosure, How Did This Get Made, Virtual Reality, Big Mouth
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Michael Douglas, Dennis Miller, Disclosure, Jurassic Park
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Michael Douglas, Dennis Miller, Donald Sutherland, How Did This Get Made
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Michael Douglas, Prozac, Disclosure, CD-ROM
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Michael Douglas, Demi Moore, Dennis Miller
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Michael Douglas, Dennis Miller, Donald Sutherland
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Disclosure, Michael Douglas, Big Mouth, Donald Sutherland
8. 1:10:00 – 1:12:56: Disclosure, Nick Kroll, Big Mouth, Represent: A Woman's Guide to Running for Office and Changing the World

Notable quotes from "Disclosure w/ Nick Kroll & Emily Altman (HDTGM Matinee)"

• The film is Disclosure from 1994 starring two of the biggest stars of the time. Michael Douglas Demi Moore and it's a story like I mentioned of sexual harassment in the workplace. But in this.

  about Disclosure · at 0:37

• So, I asked for you guys to do the movie disclosure because on season 3 of Big Mouth, we have an episode where the kids put on a musical and the musical that they are putting on is a musical based on the.

  about Big Mouth · at 4:20

• Manufacturing CD ROM players but also on the VR team and the VR that they're creating is like a virtual reality filing cabinet like the corridor the thing they've created that makes their company worth billions like Donald Sutherland is.

  about Virtual Reality · at 6:22

• This movie again, like we kind of touched on it, it revolves around Michael Douglas getting a new boss who happens to be his old exgirlfriend who they had a very sexual…

  about Michael Douglas · at 13:45

• He gets more ass than a rental car.

  about Dennis Miller · at 14:35

• Are a big part of this whole virtual reality deal or whatever unclear they need these CD hard CDROM drives not even the CD they need the CDROM drives for this virtual reality which is the cornerstone of why this merger is happening they are.

  about CD-ROM · at 29:09

• Yeah. Yeah. You don't like you don't like the Harry Potter movies, right, Jason? Never heard of Have you read any of the books? I don't even know what it is.

  about Jason Manzukas · at 56:07

• I'm also going on a standup tour, middle-aged boy tour this fall all over the country. So, I'll be doing shows wherever these guys and June have been running through this wonderful.

  about Nick Kroll · at 1:10:51

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Nick Kroll — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at 2:44
  Guest who requested the episode topic because Big Mouth Season 3 includes 'Disclosure: The Musical'; he explains the creative rationale and promotes his standup tour.
• Michael Douglas — Person · Referenced actor / film subject · 26 mentions · first at 0:45
  Central to the episode because the hosts/guests discuss the film 'Disclosure' and his role as the male employee who is sexually harassed and then accused.
• Demi Moore — Person · Referenced actor / film subject · 4 mentions · first at 0:45
  Discussed as the co-star of 'Disclosure' and the character who initiates the harassment and later accuses Michael Douglas; also quoted for the film’s tech-utopian monologue.
  The film is Disclosure from 1994 starring two of the biggest stars of the time. Michael Douglas Demi Moore and it's a story like I mentioned of sexual harassment in the…
• Emily Alman — Person · Guest · 2 mentions · first at 1:33
  Guest writer who co-wrote the Big Mouth episode parodying Disclosure; provides reactions to the film and discusses the comedic writing around it.
  I love it. So, it's a Emily Alman co-wrote the episode with Victor Kino and it's one of my favorite episodes that we've ever done of the show. and it felt like it would be a perfect.
• Jason Manzukas — Person · Co-host · 1 mention · first at 0:58
  Co-host participating in the comedic breakdown of the film’s plot, themes, and 1990s cultural context.
• Dennis Miller — Person · Referenced actor/comedian (in-film character) · 9 mentions · first at 14:37
  Discussed as a notable presence in Disclosure; the hosts quote his lines and analyze the 'drama-writer writing standup' feel of his dialogue.
• Donald Sutherland — Person · Referenced actor (in-film character) · 7 mentions · first at 6:38
  Referenced as a key supporting actor in Disclosure; discussed for his performance choices and his character’s role in the corporate intrigue.
  The corridor the thing they've created that makes their company worth billions like Donald Sutherland is going to be worth $100 million or something. So yeah, is all it is you put VR glasses on.
• Victor Kino — Person · Referenced writer (Big Mouth) · 1 mention · first at 4:41
  Mentioned as Emily Alman’s co-writer on the Big Mouth episode that adapts/parodies Disclosure as a musical, which is the meta-hook for this podcast episode.
  I love it. So, it's a Emily Alman co-wrote the episode with Victor Kino and it's one of my favorite episodes that we've ever done of the show. and it felt like it would be a perfect.

Products & tech

• CD-ROM — Product · Technology discussed · 4 mentions · first at 6:10
  Represents the technological context of the movie Disclosure, highlighting its era
• Prozac — Product · Referenced product · 2 mentions · first at 32:16
  Mentioned as part of the cultural context of the 90s within the movie
  Oh, so '9s. Every little I know. As if like it's just oh, you want a like I'm stressed out. Oh, you want a Prozac? It's like this is not an Advil. Like Prozac works.

Concepts & topics

• Virtual Reality — Concept · Technology discussed · 6 mentions · first at 0:54
  Key technology featured in the movie Disclosure, representing futuristic concepts of the time

Media & podcasts

• Disclosure — Media · Main topic · 15 mentions · first at 0:08
  Central movie discussed in the podcast, focusing on its themes and production
• How Did This Get Made — Media · Host podcast · 6 mentions · first at 0:26
  The podcast where the discussion about the movie Disclosure takes place
  Now it's time for this. We're going to have a good time celebrating failure, not just cuz you know you wonder how did this get. Let's wallow in the mediocrity of some art.
• Big Mouth — Media · Related show · 7 mentions · first at 1:37
  Animated series that features an episode inspired by the movie Disclosure
• Big Mouth: The Musical — Media · Episode topic · 3 mentions
  Specific episode of Big Mouth that is a musical adaptation of Disclosure
  Do the movie disclosure because on season 3 of Big Mouth, we have an episode where the kids put on a musical and the musical that they are putting on is a musical based on the movie Disclosure.
• Jurassic Park — Media · Referenced movie · 1 mention · first at 10:21
  Mentioned in relation to Michael Crichton's work, who also wrote Disclosure
  Michael Kiteon, who has at this point er has created er, right? Jurassic Park.
• Burlesque — Media · Referenced movie · 1 mention · first at 3:25
  Mentioned as part of the discussion about movies featured on the podcast
  Calling in. I believe I was the first guest on the first episode of How Did This Get Made. Shout out to Burlesque.

Sponsors

• Represent: A Woman's Guide to Running for Office and Changing the World — Book · Promoted work · 1 mention · first at 1:11:35
  Book by June Diane Raphael, one of the hosts, mentioned during the podcast
  October 4th. And if you have not picked up June's book, go and get it. It's called Represent: A Woman's Guide to Running for Office and Changing the World. It is fantastic.…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 In 1984, Hollywood decided to tackle the most taboo topic imaginable. Sexual harassment of straight white dudes. We saw disclosure, so you know what that means.

0:11 Now it's time for this. We're going to have a good time celebrating failure, not just cuz you know you wonder how did this get. Let's wallow in the mediocrity of some art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made?

0:28 Hello people of Earth. It is me tall John Sheer and I am here in studio to talk about a very important movie today. The film is Disclosure from 1994 starring two of the biggest stars of the time. Michael Douglas Demi Moore and it's a story like I mentioned of sexual harassment in the workplace. But in this film, Michael Douglas is the one who is sexually harassed. Oh, and it also has VR. Uh, here to break it all down, my co-host, Jason Manzukus. How are you, Jason?

1:03 Listen, Paul, I mean, these straight white men are being victimized all over this movie.

1:10 I like it because he's relatable right out of the gate. He's going from being super rich to almost a millionaire.

1:16 Yes. And he's a guy that doesn't think a [ __ ] is sex. Oh, there's so much to talk about. And we actually have a really uh fun way to tie this episode into a larger thing. Um we have two guests today. Um our first guest uh you know her as a writer for Big Mouth. She's also a writer for the president show Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt inside Amy Schumer. A first timer here. Please welcome Emily Alman.

1:44 Hi. Hi Emily. Welcome Emily to your nightmare. the this movie. We have a reason why you are here and we have a reason why our other guests here. We'll get into it both, but I wanted to introduce you and welcome you to the show, but have you ever seen Disclosure before you started to get involved in it?

2:04 I I hadn't seen it. I It's remains in my mind. I think I was like in eighth or ninth grade when it came out. And I remember

2:13 guys talking about the sex scene. I do very much remember like how hot Demi Moore was at the time that that it was it was mostly about the sex scene.

2:22 I mean that sex scene is a is a is a real moment in this film. It's also an era where everything took place in something semi under construction.

2:32 Yes. A lot of industrial design. Everything is like like clear tarps are hung everywhere. Um you've already heard him a little bit on Mike. He is an how did this get made allstar. One of our favorite guests. Uh, you know him from of course Big Mouth and the League and the Croll Show. Please welcome Nick Croll.

2:51 WHOOP. YEAH. OH YEAH. HEY GUYS. NICK. So excited to have you on this show and why you're here for this episode is is kind of

3:03 you asked us. You asked us if you could come on and talk about this movie in particular. Why did you do this to us? This is 10. This is 2 hours and 10 minutes of a movie that you made us watch.

3:18 Well, okay. I This was the favor I was calling in. I believe I was the first guest on the first episode of How Did This Get Made. Shout out to Burlesque. Shout out to Sher. Shout out to Christina.

3:31 Christina Aguilera. Y I was I've also flown to Austin to be on the show just to hang out with you guys in Austin. Look, it's you. You are a how did this get made allstar. You are part of the how did this get made family.

3:44 Thank you. And because that sometimes family asks for some favors. Uh I just like in the Fast and Furious movie. It's all about family.

3:54 I I the only favor I want is to find out who does Vin Diesel's milk voice. He always sounds like he's drank a big glove.

4:02 It's all It's all buttermilk. I asked him. He's got he's got a buttermilk uh budget that is in the millions. You know why? Cuz those takes are so hot

4:11 that he's got to drink buttermilk to come. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry, Vin. Everything curdled.

4:18 I'll drink it anyway. So, um I uh I asked for uh you guys to do the movie disclosure because on season 3 of Big Mouth, um we have an episode where uh the kids put on a musical uh and the musical that they are putting on is a musical based on the movie Disclosure.

4:41 I love it. So, it's a Emily Alman co-wrote the episode with Victor Kino and it's one of my favorite episodes that we've ever done of the show. Um, and it felt like it would be a perfect thing to come in here, talk about the movie in general, so that when people watch Big Mouth and they watch that episode, they'll have all of this extra information and be able to understand what we were doing and why we chose to [ __ ] make a musical out of the movie disclosure. this episode of Big Mouth and this episode of How Did This Get Made? There's going to be so much rewatching of Disclosure that it might get enough heat to get a sequel

5:25 or a reboot, guys. A reboot. Reboot. We need a reboot of Disclosure. Disclosure.

5:32 But I I will say a disclosure. I will say that we are on a show where so many people come up to us and say, "You got to do this movie on the podcast. You got to do this movie." And when you said it, I was like, "Oh, yeah. That sounds great." Cuz it seems so locked in amber. It's like of the time and it's a perfect choice for this show. Like I'm surprised this movie even if you hadn't requested it, this is a movie we would do.

5:59 It's a real clean. It's a real clean. How did this get made? Oh, I mean this is All right. So what I love about this movie virtual reality which we are reality obsessed with

6:09 CDROM mostly CDROMs it's most of the movie is oddly let's get into the technology here because the technology is he's in charge of like releasing CD ROM like you know manufacturing CD ROM players

6:24 but also on the VR team and the VR that they're creating is like a virtual reality filing cabinet like the corridor the thing they've created that makes their company worth billions like like like Donald Sutherland is going to be worth $100 million or something. So yeah,

6:44 is all it is is you put VR glasses on. You're in a hallway and you can open filing cabinets and see what's inside.

6:50 See what's in your filing cabinets and it and when they actually go in when you have that like that big money shot at the end when you're you're in there and it's like ILM it's so bor it's so boring and they're all going up there like let's experiencing it. They talk about it like check out the VR world. There's nothing interesting, nothing fun. It's not even like a filing cabinet on the beach. It's in like an old bank.

7:12 Yeah. Like this is in that this is in that era of that Aerosmith video. Remember the VR video.

7:20 Alicia Silverstone. A quick Alicia Silverstone anecdote. I feel like this might be the place to tell it.

7:26 Go ahead. Uh I saw her at a party and she was like, "I haven't seen you since I was at your house." And I was like, "Licia, we I've I was like, "You've never been to my house?" And she was like, "Yes, I have. I was at your house. I was like, "No, I know where I've met you." And it was not at and and she was It goes on like this for a little while. And then she's like, "Oh my god, you're not who I thought you were. You're someone else. I know you're Nick Croll." I was like, "I am." And she and and then and she's like, "No, I shouldn't. I don't even I was like, Alicia, now you have to tell me who you think I was."

8:02 She goes, "I thought you were Chris Katan." OH, SORRY. It's the best. Oh, sorry. Flight diversion helmet.

8:12 Very worthwhile. So, but it was like it was that that Aerosmith video where the guy puts on the virtual reality helmet and like he's now on a motorbike with Alicia Silverstone and it's like, yeah, that's virtual reality, right?

8:23 Right. Well, that that the idea is that virtual reality is an escape from reality and you get to interact in a really crazy space. This

8:32 do things you'd never do in real life. The avatar was your own face. You didn't even get to escape your own body. You got to be it. And I thought this I pulled this one clip um from how Demi Moore speaks about what the internet and virtual reality would be. And I just thought it was so funny because it's so wrong.

8:53 What we're selling is freedom. We offer through technology what religion and revolution have promised but never delivered. Oh,

9:01 freedom from the physical body, freedom from race and gender, from nationality and personality, from place and time. Communicating by cellular phone and handheld computer, PDA and built-in fax modem, we can relate to each other as pure consciousness.

9:19 The exact not thing that has happened, I would say it's made us a more segmented angry community. a place where all of those things she said, race and gender, matter the most and and a and a way to like protect our anonymity while we attack those. It's like a system for trolls.

9:40 I mean, what it's also funny that just quickly a shout out to that the Anyomorone music playing in the background there.

9:48 By the way, he does the music. Oh, yeah. This is a Barry Levenson movie. This is like a This is like like uh you know a lot of times on the show we're covering movies that are B movies or C or D movies even you know like really lowbudget whatever and then we've got you know your big Fast and Furious movies but this movie at the time is a massive these are the biggest stars of the time. This is one of the biggest directors of the time. This was like when adult movies like this were king.

10:18 Michael Kiteon, who has at this point er has created er, right? Jurassic Park. Created Jurassic Park.

10:25 He sold the movie rights for a million dollars before the novel was even published.

10:30 Right. He he like it was like day after the Anita Hill hearing started. He's like, I got an idea. Um, and then a couple his whole pitch was just a Coke can and he starts,

10:41 by the way, there's a there's a weird closeup on a Coke can in the there's a vending machine and I was like, "Oh, this is like their nod." Um, by the way, Milo Foreman was the original director, but left due to creative differences with Michael Kiteon and Barry Levenson came in and took over, which is just I wonder which way Miliglo Foreman wanted to push it. Like what what did Kiteon react to?

11:08 Like it's a virtual file cabinet or I walk. Um, Foreman is like maybe it can be something more interesting, more exciting to look at when you're in the virtual world. No, I want to open drawers that say finances.

11:21 I mean, but again, this movie had a budget of $55 million. It made a gross of $83 million. A huge hit, you know, it's a big movie.

11:31 That is crazy that this movie cost $55 million. And is it all for GL? It's all for glass walls and glass offices.

11:37 I love I love tech companies in in films like this. Like tech tech companies look so sexy. It's like the CSI. Like I mean, it's like CSI on TV. It's like everything is glass. They have these big conferences and people could see people yelling through the glass. Like his wife, Michael Douglas, and his wife into a fight in a glass room outside the mediation room. Everyone could see that.

11:59 Everyone can see. Like there are at least four plot points in this movie that hinge on someone being able to hear or see

12:08 through glass. Like like Michael Douglas basically is able to discern the whole like third act like fourth act really plot twist by simply walking by Dei Moore's office and eavesdropping on her while she's on a treadmill.

12:22 By the way, it wasn't even her office. I think that was just a a gym that also happened to be in the tech company. Put that stuff in her office.

12:31 Looks like an office. The gym looks like an office where everything does. Everything's an office. That's very true. Sorry, before we go forward,

12:38 is that one of the songs in the show Big? No, but it should have been that um uh just a quick question before we move further. Is it demi more or deme?

12:49 I've heard it is dei. I think she I think it was originally Demi like I feel like in the 80s it was Demi and then she shifted to Dei. That's just that's

12:57 more demure. I'm wondering if like uh Demi like Demi Lovado. Mhm. Demi Lovato uh is

13:05 Demi Lovato. Um I believe her name is short for the Greek name Vitra. Uh and I wonder if Dei Moore is the same in which I think it would be demi not dei.

13:18 Yeah. I mean as always Dei Moore is is basing everything off of Greek Greek mythology.

13:24 I'm wondering if her name is also the Mitra. Oh I wonder. Are you now trying to figure out if De Mo is maybe Greek

13:30 is half Greek? I'm just now but no. My dad would have told me because he's got a he can readily call up any celebrity who's Greek and be like, "Well, you know, Tina Feya is Greek. You should talk to Tina Fay."

13:40 Yeah. This movie again, like we kind of touched on it, it revolves around uh Michael Douglas getting a new boss who happens to be his old exgirlfriend who they had a very sexual relationship. My favorite thing in this movie is that he is the head of like production. And it is a movie in which I feel like Michael Douglas is like, "No, no, no. Let me be very clear. I'm a guy. I'm manu I'm the head of manufacturing and production of this like this hardware unit for a computer thing, but I need to everybody to recognize that I'm one of the biggest Playboys that has ever existed in tech."

14:21 Like everybody's like, "Oh, this guy used to get all the pussy." I mean they literally his wife is like you [ __ ] so many women. It's like wow.

14:30 But the story he is the story is always about how prolific he was. He gets more ass than a rental car. That's what Dennis Miller says.

14:39 Oh by the way Dennis Miller is I mean Dennis Miller uh first of all Michael Katon wrote the character for Dennis Miller which just shows you where we're living. Yeah.

14:50 Um there's so many great Dennis Miller like Millerisms Millerisms throughout the whole thing again. And am I buying it's like Michael Douglas and Dennis Miller are tech guys and then this guy who's like Ko Kalin who uh you know

15:03 Ko the um so along those lines I think we the reason one of the when we were deciding to do this for the for the show we were describing this movie as in the Michael Douglas's period of film making when he was too sexy for his own good.

15:21 Yes. where it's the third and the tptic of basic instinct, uh, Fatal Attraction, and then Disclosure was kind of like the the one that slightly slightly missed the mark,

15:33 right? Slightly, but it's like it still is a movie that's kind of burned into your mind as like a big film

15:39 and it hit and it worked. It was not a failure at all. And Michael Douglas was in all of these movies. These women are going crazy cuz they want to [ __ ] him so bad that they'll blow up their whole lives for it. They will literally blow up their whole lives just to get a taste of that D. And by the way, I will say the one thing that really bothered me, maybe I'm jumping ahead, but like obviously he's sexually harassed, but never at one point does he like apologize to his wife, seem to have any guilt, have anything about him where he's like cuz that's I mean we'll get into that scene, but he is bulletproof.

16:15 He seems to be unfased by anything but losing a million dollars. That's being less rich. And they at the beginning she clarifies his wife is like but we're already rich before the movie unfolds. We are very rich.

16:30 You see where they live? They live in a beautiful house like a giant house on a lake. Gorgeous.

16:36 They drive a Jeep Grand Wagoner which is like one of my all-time favorite that car. I bet you that car. I love that car. But my my thing was there's the scene where just to jump back to Dennis Miller. They go to dinner with Dennis Miller and his wife and Michael Douglas and his wife. And this is kind of near the uh uh uh be beginning of the second act or whatever when Michael Douglas is starting to kind of go down the road of maybe he can claim sexual harassment and that will help him kind of get out from under where he is, but he doesn't want he hasn't told his wife. He's not blah blah blah. And so Dennis Miller is given the information and outs him at dinner.

17:16 And then it's a big dust up and then they go, "Why don't we sit and have a nice dinner?"

17:22 And then they do they just sit and have a nice dinner after Dennis Miller has just revealed that um Michael Douglas cheated on his wife with his ex-girlfriend TO HIS WIFE.

17:32 THE wife digests so much information and effortlessly is like, "Oh no, he told me everything. Everything's fine."

17:39 Lying for him. lying for him. And then they cut to the outside afterwards and she's like, "Please just tell me, did you sleep with her?" Like she seems like destroyed, you know, in a way that you're like, and he like continues to lie. Like he is the protagonist of this movie and is just a piece of [ __ ]

17:57 I mean, he I mean, his wife goes through so much. The fact that she's like sitting behind him in that mediation, too.

18:03 I know. Why is she sitting in the mediation? Cuz he was going to go without a lawyer or No, no, no, no, that wasn't it. He had the he had the woman that he'd hired. But why was she good? I guess

18:12 standing by maybe. Yeah, maybe she thought the But then it's like he lies to her. He lies to her in in that first scene where she or in the scene where he's like she went she put her hand down my penis and then and then right into the hole.

18:28 Yeah. She stuffed her middle deep into the hole. She reached her middle finger into my urethra. into all the way into my bladder. Does

18:37 that hurt, Paul? Are you feeling that? Are you feeling that? Ooh, she milked my bladder.

18:43 From inside my pupil. She took her nail and dug right into my urethra. I mean, this

18:50 And there was an Eminem in there. Yeah. But by Yeah. And Dennis Miller, by the way, just to hit one more thing with him, too, is like supposedly like the voice of not the voice of reason, but the guy who's like I'm saying it as it is.

19:03 I think he's like the every dude. Yeah. You don't have a boner. He's like, you know, she doesn't give you a

19:08 boner. He doesn't you don't achieve lift. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here's a You got to use a Mac truck, you know, series five to understand how to lift that thing out.

19:19 This is This is where he gets in trouble here. Uh well, this comes back to haunt Michael Douglas. This interaction,

19:24 come on. You have a sexual urge every 20 minutes. It's a physiological certainty. You know, it's hardwired into your limbic brain. You can't fight it. Why would you want to fight it? live a little. I mean, 10 years from now, you're going to need a forklift to get a hard on you tonight.

19:40 10 years from now. So, it's now when you're 40. And also, how does a forklift help?

19:49 Yeah. You know, like like exactly like what does it do? Like a forklift doesn't get it.

19:56 Yeah. But it's so funny. This is also Michael K. It's like that. It's like when Sorcin wrote Studio 60. It's like writers who want to write standup comedy

20:07 and they're like, I'm gonna write Miller, Dennis Miller material, whips. I'm going to write what it must be like to be around one of these guys.

20:14 And I will say though, to Kiteon's credit, it ages great. It does. Yeah. Really? It still has that kind of bite,

20:20 but it is like I have to say inside of it, like Dennis Miller is like it's fun. I missed I I do like hearing Miller's voice in there. like he's fun in that role of like come on, you know? He's got a real unlike Ko Kalin uh in the movie, he has like a point of view. He's got like something an engine driving him that's that's fun to watch enough the way that I also find Donald Sutherland just captivating to watch his massive teeth.

20:48 They are I think they're getting bigger. They are Donald Sutherland says something in the beginning and I loved this choice which was he talks about the death of his daughter but he glosses over it so quick. He's like when my daughter died I was like not even like on my he's like speaking to so many people like there's no like emotion

21:03 no reference to it after that. But I will say a couple things. One Donald Sutherland is doing almost a like New York accent like he pops in and out of like I think Donald Sutherland was like I'd like to do a fun sort of he's a tough New York guy. And they were like okay. And then and then he's like forget it after he's like I'm not doing that. Yeah. Um, the other thing is with Dennis Miller and Michael Douglas is it is the this is prime mullet new. This is prime90s mullet.

21:36 The hair is not trashy mullet. Not like full hair but like long in the back but like quafted up top.

21:46 And I will say this is the time where I realized also '90s clothes are disgusting.

21:51 So loose on the body. He talks about his body at one point. She's like, "You're so you're still so hard. Your body is still so tight." And like, "You can't tell."

22:01 By the way, this the way you fill out all those pleats and those I really do feel like, you know, we has been in the news recently like the Fast and Furious guys had like this thing about who can take a punch. I feel like here Michael Douglas like you got to make her talk a little bit more about my my rockhard body. Yeah. Like I do feel like it's overkill. It's like it's like what are you con like who are you convincing? everybody else and and everybody all of the women in the movie are wearing like just like clothes on top of clothes on top of other clothes. It looks like they are just draped in fabric fabric.

22:36 Yeah, it is so blousy and and and flowy everything. It is it's hilarious to see everybody in the workplace is just like a whole barrage of nonsense clothes every time there's a meeting. He's also Michael Douglas is he's a backpack guy, which I love that as a character gap. Yeah,

22:56 he's on a backpack. He's got a He's taken the ferry. He's taking I do I feel like style-wise though, like another thing that we can address at some point is the Pacific Northwest. How much and how '9s that also is period,

23:09 but also grunge. I was surprised. I was surprised there wasn't more of a wink too that there was like that's how much this movie exists in a time when adult movies mattered is it makes no effort to like reach out to younger people by acknowledging that at this time in Seattle is like the most vibrant music scene in America

23:30 there I mean they don't even yeah I mean there but you're right but I feel like now they would try and use like they go to see some bando Kalin would be like see my band tonight. I didn't even give a [ __ ]

23:47 Maybe they were trying to make him look like Kurt Cobain. Oh yeah, that's probably true. I was like that long blondie hair.

23:55 Yeah, I think what I was really taking in was how warped I was by movies like this as a child because this is what you would see like Basic Instinct and stuff like this. Like this is the these are the films of my youth that were like cool. watched adult films because they were always playing on cable like movies like this were always playing on the HBO's and the you know whatever

24:18 Gear and Kim Basinger you know it's like yeah it's like it's like this intense thing even like Alec Baldwin made that movie like the getaway with Kim Basinger and they had like like he showed his dick and she was totally naked. It was like on the unrated version of the getaway. I remember getting it at blockbuster and being so excited. W the Ali Mcgra, by the way, just to sidetrack, the Ali McGrath Steve McQueen version of The Getaway is one of the greatest movies

24:41 really is called The Getaway. Yeah. Okay. Yes. The movie, you know, it takes place in a week. So, we're Monday through Friday. That shining, they use the like shining Monday when it starts and

24:53 lives up to the promise. So much happens in in five days and they make such a big deal of like this is going to wreck your life and you're going to spend so much money. No, just if you can spend 5 days dealing with a sexual harassment case.

25:06 And honestly, at the end of it, this is a legal case that would take months if not years to work. Arbitration arbitration.

25:13 But I love that the at the end of the the movie, it should have just been like somebody says to Michael Douglas, "How you doing?" And he's like, "Tough week."

25:20 You know, it's like that's how instinct it's only been one week of his life. Well, I is this a fair time to just bring up what the plot of this movie is?

25:29 Of course. Go ahead. Yeah. I So this is this is the whole thing is like I don't know how I would explain like if you talk about the movie you're like oh it's the movie where De Moore sexually harasses Michael Douglas and then accuses him of sexual harassment. Right. Right.

25:45 But the actual plot of the movie is that Donald Southerntherland is trying to sell or merge his company to make $100 million

25:55 in 1994. is a lot of money which so yeah which is a lot of money but still yes it's it's it is crazy

26:02 but like now $100 million for a tech company is like what like oh yeah maybe lofer would make like a company that just sells like lofah delivers you lofas

26:11 by the way that's a great I get I get my box every month brand new lofah by the way we should say this episode of how did this get made is brought to you by lofer loferos lofah company

26:22 scrub off some savings scrub off some savings at 15% when you use the offer code bunk or lofer Yeah. Lofer by loofer Igno.

26:29 This is Idris El. I'm loofer. Poor Lofer. I scrubed the streets of London clean. And now I want to scrub your body clean.

26:41 You've got dead skin all over your body. Yeah, I found dead bodies all OVER LONDON.

26:48 OH, I HATE THESE JAMS. OH BOY. So anyway, that that loofer would have a hund00 million merger,

26:56 right? But maybe he's excited because he has $100 million for a company that's just a virtual filing capital. The biggest wool over everyone's

27:05 Can I ask a question? Is the sexual harassment, the initial sexual harassment, this is my question,

27:11 a setup itself? That's what I When Deme Moore calls him up to the office for wine to discuss, is that a trap or is I think so because I think we're supposed to believe that he is that sexually attractive.

27:25 I don't think she's putting I think it's she is so moved by how hot he is she has to do it.

27:31 But don't you think I thought I read it slightly differently. I think that she was like going, "Hey, we used to [ __ ] He'll want to do it again. lets us go and we'll have our we'll just have our thing like it will be

27:42 we'll have our normal affairs while I got while I got his promotion. Yeah, I got your promotion but we can still hook up.

27:49 But I mean but that's what I like and so I think what is even weirder about this too is like so she's spurned because he doesn't want to have sex with her and then she's like I'm going to take you down and oddly the whole company but that's the thing is like she's he spurns her right she's like I'm going to take you down but he was they were always trying to take him down. He was always supposed to be the scapegoat for why the technology wasn't working.

28:12 Was the sexual harassment not the first attempt to get him out? It was just a complication to their long game of trying to get him out.

28:21 I thought I don't know. I Well, again, I I don't know. Maybe it's different, but I thought they were using that to be like, we'll get him out this way because he was already pushed down to the lower tiers. What I believe after spending like literally hours trying to understand this and talking about it with my girlfriend who's like, "Can you explain to me what this is about, here's what I believe they were trying to accomplish."

28:45 Your dates must be so fun. Is that you just like furiously diagram on the table? No. Okay, look. And then she says, "Right, so De and it's D. It's De Well, she's Greek, we think." So um is I believe what happens is that they are trying to get this merger done but the the the technology and the manufacturing on these new CDROMs which are a big part of this whole virtual reality deal or whatever unclear

29:13 they need these CD hard CDROM drives not even the the CD they need the CDROM drives for this virtual reality which is the cornerstone of why this merger is happening they are behind about a year on production right

29:26 so they need a scapegoat If this comes out, they need a scapegoat to bury it the problem on. And they're choosing Michael Douglas as the scapegoat so that if it all ever comes up, they'll be able to fire him and be like, "We fired the problem now." But even then, it's still

29:44 But the reason is because they would still be behind. They can't The reason they're behind what we find out.

29:48 You're right though. I think I think Yeah, I think so far everybody is right. All of the That's the thing is all of these things are in play and that's what's kind of difficult to kind of figure out because there's multiple people have multiple levels of secret plans, you know, cuz what we then find out at the end is that it was Dei Moore's character who um did made the changes to the manufacturing line of the CD ROM drives that have necessitated that Michael Douglas is now a year behind schedule.

30:19 Why did she do that? She just wanted to set the company back. Cost cutting. Oh, to get them to get them maybe ready for the merger quicker.

30:27 Yes. I mean, is my my guess is that they had the a clock and they couldn't wait.

30:32 Any anytime when you're rolling in Malaysian news footage to your big reveal at the end of this is amazing.

30:39 And and also just like being like and he has all that overnight. He's able to overnight build an incredible case against Dei Moore. All because this is a guy who's always helping out the little guy. His wife says it and she's like, "Oh, you don't you the only one who helps everybody or something." And then like his big help is except her

30:59 the Disneyland ticket. He goes Disneyland tickets. He writes, he goes, "All the rides ARE COMPED." I LOVE

31:08 YOU have to pay for a s once you get in there. Go on any ride you want. You can ride it as many times, but don't worry, all the rides are comp. When he said that, it just it spoke to me that no one has been to Disneyland there. No one understood the concept.

31:19 It's not hard to get tickets to Disney. It's not like a concert and you have to like get sc is that just a save the cat thing of like he's a good guy. Okay.

31:31 And why the guy helps him, right? He's from the transaction is the same the guy he got the Disney tickets for is the guy who faxes him all the incriminating name is maybe Jafar. Yes, Jafar. It is Jafar.

31:44 Post and this is post Aladdin or is this pre nod to Aladdin and is it right? Terrible nod to Aladdin.

31:52 Well, cuz yeah, Jafar wants to go to Disney World. He can afford some of the rides. He can't afford all.

31:58 You know, Michael Kryton's just like with his kids are watching Aladdin in the background. He's like, "Jafar, great. Got it. Okay, clickity clacky clicketity clacky."

32:05 Um, Aladdin came out in '92. So, yeah, it is it is today. We're living in a post Aladdin world.

32:10 Yes. Uh, go ahead. Please. Um, please look, what I'm saying is I don't want to be stressed out by this. I might just take a Prozac.

32:19 Oh, so '9s. Every little I know. As if like it's just like, oh, you want a like I'm stressed out. Oh, you want a Prozac? It's like this is not an Advil. Like Prozac Prozac works cumulatively over time. You have to take Pro something like Prozac for a long time for it to get into you. You don't just like casually pop. But this movie speaks of all these things as if they were all in the media. They're like Prozac, VR, sexual harassment. It's like it just thrown in terms like Yeah. It's like a a weird random like timeline of what 90

32:50 time capsule time in there is present from the '9s. Everything is there. So when he goes into this office to meet her and they have their first meeting, she requests a back rub, which she does. I mean, this is so it's so funny because they don't try to change it in any way. They just basically here are the details of how or the the tropes of men sexually harassing women. We'll just have her do the exact same thing like give me a back rub and and that and so funny. And the secretary walks in

33:25 secretary totally indifferent by the way. Why does she I have a question about that. The secretary when she the secretary locks the

33:33 Why? So the secretary was she in on it as well? This is before they could this is before they could install this before the Matt Low button that automatically locks the door. The secretary had to lock the door. That was so odd though because she would have to say like hey um

33:48 I'm going to sexually harass someone in here. Also here was my question is Deim Moore has been not like this is the first he's seen. This is the first Michael Douglas has seen of her. She's got a fully uh not a fully furnished office yet. No, it's under construction, right? But it's pretty pretty done. Yeah.

34:07 Yeah. And she has flown her secretary up with her to like I was sort of like So the secretary is with her in in the val in in in California. They've flown up that day. Yes.

34:20 The office is basically done up and running. and he didn't ever see it. And he had no idea that this was not going to be this. This was supposed to be his job.

34:30 They treat it like like the office is being decorated like a surprise party. Like I know they're decorating that office. It's going to be mine. Like no, no, she's fully in there. Like

34:40 choices have been made. Yeah. Like he would have been able to look and be like, "Oh, that's not my my thing." She, Donald Sutherland, um, the guy from Happiness, Dylan Baker. Dylan Baker, he's one of the great weasels of our time. They're all so excited to [ __ ] over Michael.

34:58 Well, that's one of the notes I made. I was like, "This world, this movie exists in a world in which just people at a tech company are so gleefully um engaged in um like nefarious activities to destroy a single person as if he's wronged them." And like they are Dylan Baker is essentially like twirling a mustache throughout like he's such an idiot. He has no idea.

35:25 And he's only shown us at that point to be the nicest of all people. like he's helping out. He's got a hamper full of balls in his office that he likes to, you know, play with his basketball. I thought that was such a funny weird

35:37 he has a hamper of balls. Like it's like basketball football and at one point he's just like has a basketball just tosses it in the side.

35:45 Well, but but the office door stays open. Oh yeah. And his secretary Yep. Yeah.

35:51 Cindy, right? Are you a friend? Are you a friend? Well, and it's like she's I It's always so funny in movies like, "Do you want the door open or closed?" She's like, "I always leave it open." She's like, "You always leave it open." And you're like, "I wonder."

36:04 And she also is like uh like they have a thing where she's very concerned about him when he is going through his trauma. Like she's like, "Are you okay?" He's like, "I'm fine. I'm fine." And then yet she testifies against him,

36:17 which is they set that up as well when he pats her on the butt with his with the files in the beginning. They really show you that like they make sure you that lands so that that's when that comes back later which

36:29 and then she does it at the end which shows that everyone's landing everyone is doing it also she kind of apologizes at the very she apologizes at the very end for

36:39 which we have in I I didn't quite understand what she's apologizing for but it feels bad

36:44 right well it's like she's apologizing for like saying out loud that he like sexually harassed

36:49 I'm so sorry that I told the truth who is such a [ __ ] mixed message movie because she's like, I'm apologizing for testifying against you because you actually are a good guy and now the thing that you did to me I'm going to do to you and playfully playfully which he did to her playfully like not less obviously. So not that I'm not saying that that's right or wrong. I'm just saying but like no one's learned anything in this interaction. This has been

37:15 No, I feel like they set up the idea that like you know in the office like look Michael Douglas isn't perfect. Like I feel like they were like we covered our basis. We've covered our bases, right? So like we're not just saying to me more sexually harass him and Michael Douglas is an angel. He likes to play around a little bit but it's all in good fun. It's nothing bad.

37:34 Well, keep in mind this, you know, this is 1994. This is before Joe Biden got plugs.

37:42 Yeah. This is before I mean it's 2019 remember like this looks antiquated because we have figured out sexual harassment so clearly like this is like from another time there's no problems

37:54 and everything this is I mean this looks we've solved all this it's I feel like nobody talks about it anymore these days you're not really sort of hearing about it

38:03 I know it's like not in the new I went away I feel like this like I can't believe that this isn't the biggest movie in the alt-right world

38:11 yeah the spirit is identical It's so weird. So the way the defensiveness that he has,

38:16 the persecution that he goes through from the guy on the ferry from the very beginning, it's like a world. Everyone is against him and it feels so much like right now.

38:24 It is the guy on the ferry which there the the guy on the ferry. We have a puppet scene in Disclosure the musical briefly. You'll see like a weird puppet version of the ominous man on the ferry. And we have the [ __ ] scene. We have like a experimental dance [ __ ] scene which you see very briefly. But the guy in the fairy is like these women are taking our jobs. Yes. And it's like I'm and it's and it's it's like 25 years uh later. It's still this feeling. It's the same sentiment. Right.

38:54 And you're supposed to think I think at the beginning that that guy's like over the top on the ferry, but then the way the movie plays out, you're like, "No, I think that's what Michael Douglas feels he experienced."

39:04 Michael Douglas looks at him at the end of the movie almost to say like, "Were you right before you were? Are you some sort of Are you like the blind seer? Are you like what's the Greek blind Tiberius or? No, that's not right. But like uh that's a crazy idea.

39:21 Well, he says to him, he goes, "You used to have fun with the girls. Now they want your job." Like that's like that's like the most damning thing you can say. Like why can't we just like why don't these girls just want to [ __ ] us anymore? Now they want to work and vote and get out there. It really has been a rough a real rough what 15 years for straight white dudes. Like a real straight decline. They're really feeling it.

39:46 Put this in some sort of context too. This is four years before the Clinton Lewinsky stuff even comes out too. So it's like we're like it is in the sense that it it was ahead of its

39:58 well that's what I bet like when I I bet when all the Clinton Lewinsky stuff comes out and it's like I did not have sexual relations with that woman which is like you know it's like he didn't have sex with her but she clearly blew him he definitely put a cigar inside of her and what an amazing guy to be the president of the United States in his mid50s to do that to a 20 21 year old girl what a what a great but but also to talk about that like just recently watching that manga Lewinsky Doc, you realize like, "Oh, I saw this totally wrong." The way the media kind of put it in your head as a kid, like you're like, "Oh, yeah." Like you you like, "No, his personal life is his personal life."

40:34 Like, you don't understand the power media. Jason has changed a lot too, just like Dennis Miller. You've done a lot of different

40:43 lamestream media will have you believe. But it is. I bet when the Clinton Lewinsky stuff came out, I bet I guarantee like Kiteon and and and all those guys were like, "We saw it. We knew it. We saw like this is all these women taking down these good men."

40:59 In this movie, you've got him say a line which is, "Oh, I can tell you right now."

41:05 I mean, is it sexual harassment is about power? When did I ever have the power?

41:12 That's not the line. They say it like four times in the movie. Well, here's the thing. Let's get into this scene, the sexual harassment scene. So, it starts off with the the arm rubbing or the the back rub, the door is locked, and then the attack. This is the most and maybe I'm wrong on this, but the most mixed message sexual harassment scene either because no,

41:35 no, no, Meredith. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I know. like Shia Buff watching was like "Oh okay." But then the angles like that blow I mean first of all that's another hilarious thing I guess in my mind that like for this like this woman like like she wants to get off by giving him a [ __ ] like oh I just want to get your [ __ ] in my mouth like that gets me off like like but like so she's like so you have this angle like on her face in his crotch in those very pleated pants and you know he's like no no no and then he kind of lifts rips her off. He's like, "Okay, you want to get [ __ ] I'll [ __ ] you."

42:16 And then they just start [ __ ] No, they almost [ __ ] very important rip of he rips her. And I think that's in one of those things where Mike Michael's like, "I've got an idea."

42:31 Uh, I've got one idea, Barry, before we roll on this. I thought maybe we'd try this. So, he rips the underwear off and then he's like,

42:38 you know, there was a couple of times he tried to and it didn't work. He's like, "Can somebody score the underwear so it'll rip? It'll rip easier." Well, here here is a little bit of the sex scene.

42:47 It's another dull day in the computer business. Let me be the boss. She uses a lot of business language.

42:55 Oh, you got it. No, I She's like, "The synergy between our bodies has never been

42:59 I want to download you. Let's idiate. All right. So, now he's in the middle of getting it.

43:12 Want to get [ __ ] huh? Come on. Do what you want. Want to get [ __ ] You're turning everybody on. Paul,

43:19 say what you want. I love when she puts his her fingers in his mouth. But he So, he says, "Do you want to get fucked?" and then he gets all the power or in this moment he is the aggressor which I think is a funny weird mix to be like okay so he's got to also show he's not really being sexually assaulted cuz he then has

43:42 I believe that they're saying I believe that like what they thought they were doing was being like she's pushing him she's pushing him and then he's still a [ __ ] dog you know what I mean

43:54 he's got to do it now he's a man he got to do it and And and it it like it it is part of his character that he is like a womanizing man, like a man with a past of like sexual prowess or whatever. And

44:08 it's like but it's like he's a sexual prowess guy like guy, but like you see him at home and you see him with his family and general he's like so kind of like such a family man.

44:19 Well, that's what De Mo is kind of chipping away at. She basically he arrives and the first thing she does is be like, "Show me pictures of your family." who she then proceeds to neg fully his daughter. He says, "But look at this. My a picture of my daughter. Isn't she beautiful?" She goes, "She looks like your wife

44:36 who likes to lose weight." She said, "Yeah." She goes, "She never lost." And then then Michael Doug goes, "She never lost the the baby weight from the first baby." He throws that out there. Which, by the way, that actress, what? There's no THERE'S SHE'S QUITE

44:50 SLEND. ALSO, how can you tell she's wearing the blousesiest of clothing? But that's a crazy thing to say like to anyone like, "Yeah, my wife never lost that baby weight." Like

45:00 it's almost like apologizing for it. Like, "Yeah, no, I you caught that. I'm sorry."

45:03 And you know what? To say that to someone who's an ex-girlfriend of yours is an invitation. To say that to an ex is basically to say, "I'm not happy with my wife."

45:14 That's why it's confusing. He gave her. I think that's what they think they were doing. They were like, "See, we're there is gray." I think that's what it is that they're saying like if we really took a snapshot of what sexual harassment is. It's a lot it's just a lot of gray. It's as much the women as it is the

45:30 and by putting a man in that role they can say like that's why they do that thing on the the ass slap at the end. It's like guys what is it? I mean it really what is like where is it for you? It's not like

45:42 it's a it's a very mixed message. There's also something in that exchange where Demi Moore says it looks like your wife keeps your refrigerator full of food. That's like another com and that's why he thinks that she's saying that she's fat because they food. But I don't even get what food.

46:00 I think she's saying like she seems like a good provider. Yes. Like like a like

46:06 like a dummy at home or something like you know like and even though she's a lawyer and she's got a bed full of papers,

46:12 she's quite accomplished. Yeah. Oh yeah, she's got a bed. It's such a '9s thing of like I'm working at home so my bed is covered in

46:21 by the way. That is a June Diane Rael specialty. Really? June makes the bed a fullblown office. It is like there are books. I I when I try to get her the corator

46:34 so that she's just in a virtual office in bed. She just puts on virtual office. Imagine walking into your bedroom and June is just reaching.

46:43 Think about June that is like a little '90s working woman. I mean, by the way, I think that she is somebody who grew up on Baby Boom and she's like, I want to live this life.

46:51 She's also playing Let the River Run while she does it. Let the river run. Carly Simon sings in our room every night. Uh, but she uh

46:59 you guys you guys have changed. June does say that she considers it used to be the office. like she does like she she considers her bed the office.

47:09 She likes to she's very open about loving to get into bed at early times and be like, "Let's like let's figure this out. Let's

47:16 get to work." I literally when I come to bed I mean I'm moving books and files and things.

47:23 You're probably one of the only people that wakes up with paper cuts. Um but so he is

47:30 shout out to June June who said when she she's in New York right now doing press for her book her uh great book uh that

47:39 she's like I'm so bummed I'm not here for this episode. She's like this is my favorite movie.

47:43 What we have to get was and when she was watching me watch it on the plane yesterday and she's like wish I could talk about that movie.

47:55 Uh she also gave me a warning. She's like, "You be careful in there tomorrow." She's like, "You guys are in a minefield."

48:01 Well, it is, but again, like Michael Douglas, it's everyone's in a minefield. And like I think like how it's just this movie to me is is so in a weird way it it is very prophetic about how all of this would eventually go down. It only took 25 years for us to be like, "Watch how for like white men to be like, watch how and all men how women are going to weaponize sexual harassment against men."

48:31 And and what I think is so interesting is the movie is also a revenge film. Like cuz once he's been wrong, he's like, "Now I'm going to [ __ ] wreck your life."

48:39 Yes. The scene where he confronts her cuz it goes beyond he he wants to humiliate her. He's too like tricky where he's like, "Meredith, I'm just curious. I thought you were in charge of that." And then everyone starts to laugh at her. It's there's too much emotion behind. He needs it too much.

48:56 And they never really do that to him. Everything that he's doing is very segmented. The only people that are probably laughing at him is the guy who accidentally got the message on his answering machine of the hardcore sex scene.

49:09 WHO WAS THAT? [ __ ] random cuz he was auto type on his phone made him call the wrong guy. That wasn't someone we knew, right?

49:17 I thought it was going to be the guy from the [ __ ] boat like at least thought it was. No,

49:22 that was confusing. Yes. I also think that in this like it's like the speeches and the reveal. There's two at least two times when Deme cannot help herself but reveal like what a [ __ ]

49:36 She does like a couple of different You can't handle the truths, you know, where it's like when if you push me, guess what? I won't back down. Do you want to hear?

49:44 Yeah. Go ahead. I want to hear her big This is her big seat. Locked the door. You demanded service and then you got angry when he didn't provide it. So, you decided to get even to get rid of him with this trumped up charge. M. Johnson, the only thing you have proven is that a woman in power can be every bit as abusive as a man.

50:01 Thesis statement for the film. Yeah. You want to put me on trial here? Let's at least be honest about what it's for.

50:07 I am a sexually aggressive woman. I like it. Tom knew it and you can't handle it. It is the same damn thing since the beginning of time. Veil it, hide it, lock it up, and throw away the key. We expect a woman to do a man's job, make a man's money, and then walk around with a parasol and lie down for a man to [ __ ] her like it was still a hundred years ago. Well, no thank you.

50:27 By the way, that speech is so a Few Good Men and she's in a Few Good Men 2 years before.

50:35 I kind of like that speech. I I there's something about it that's like very pleasing to me. By the way, I think the content is wrong, but I like the way

50:43 I think she's good in this movie. I think she's like really good. I think there's a bunch of good performances in this movie, which make it even more insane because it's not it's not campy. It's not over the top performance-wise. You know, people are finding a way to compellingly deliver insane lines like that.

51:01 Well, but I will say this. What Michael Douglas and De Moore are both doing a lot of is lower lip work. Michael Douglas's lower lip is is Yeah. And I don't know if it's always like that, but it's like really jutted out. And I feel like to me Moore is also doing a lot of lower lip work in this movie.

51:20 They both worked with the same acting. It's like it's like the top part of their face is different than the bottom part. It really does feel like their their top part is almost frozen. Like Michael Kane has that thing like never blink when they're on camera. And I feel like they're like never move a muscle in the top part of your face. Only the bottom lip. Oh my god. This isn't a pre this is probably in like a pre-botoxy world, right? But Michael Douglas's lower lip is but there are some good speeches in here or they're like and it is this weird thing where it's like they're trying to bring up the idea that like how can a woman should be able to do whatever. We we talk a lot in the in the there's about a what is it a a an aggressive woman likes to be on top is one of our songs and but I do think it is a lot about an aggressive woman likes to be on top and they want to talk to it but then they're

52:08 also like but an aggressive woman can't control herself and like loses her [ __ ] which is what Dei Moore does time and time again. It's like, yes, she's powerful. Yes, she's aggressive, but she also has no control over her emotions. So, she's going to let loose and say things she shouldn't say multiple times. But, you know, it's interesting because at certain points, you are on her side, you are on his side. Like, you you see you see it clearly. And I think I mean, and again, this whole idea of the gray, it I think it comes out in this where you leave just going like I don't know.

52:43 Like I mean you can you can really find she doesn't seem like a villain necessarily at the end. I mean the the most villainous act she does is sabotage the plant. Right.

52:54 Right. I mean for well I mean I meanit for profit you know in the company that that it seems to me right perhaps might have been done at the behest of Donald Sutherland. I'm not sure. I don't think she's out there acting as a a malicious agent alone. You know what I I don't think she's trying to um game the system for her own gain or anything like that. I think she is a company uh I think she's part of a company that itself is like participating in in misrepresenting itself in order to overvaluate their their merger price. You know, I don't think she's like trying to be set up as like, oh, she's like uh working alone is the bad guy. I think they're all bad. I think Sutherland is bad. I think Dylan Baker's bad. But I think their whole team seems to be like a cabal of evildoers.

53:44 And Dylan Baker also in the mediation. Everybody kind of in and out of the mediation in the middle of the day like I got to go back to work. I you know

53:52 they're doing it in the middle of the day. They're going to it like they're like they're going to a different location.

53:57 They're going to another another glass office conference room. Like let's go to that other glass conference room.

54:03 Yeah. Cuz I thought it was in their thing and then they had to go back to work to then go back to the mediation. Although I do like when he wins the mediation at the end. They needed to connect him and his lawyer. And I love his lawyer, uh, Roma Mafia. Like, she's Catherine Katherine Alvarez. Like, they win and they're like, they don't hug. They just do this like awkward up top high five like like they're like, "Yeah,

54:25 yeah, we did it." It's such a weird thing. Not a handshake. It's like, "Yeah." And then they and then he goes back and it's like, "Wait, the paper's gone through. There's still like this is all part of their plot to screw me because it's so it's like it's so convoluted.

54:43 Yeah. Well, because now you know now they couldn't get him on this sexual harassment thing. So now they need to scapegoat him for the plants flaws again to make them look good to the people who are going to buy them. The guy from Texas or whatever.

54:59 Connelly junior. Junior. Well, no. Then the father comes at the end of the movie

55:04 when they're all so excited to check out the VR setup in his hotel room. Which, by the way, the other thing that I love cuz it makes no sense is it's like um a bouncy mat, like a like an exercise bouncy mat that has like balls on it, but like they're walking around so fluidly. It's like, well, they're going to walk right off that [ __ ] bouncy mat. Oh yeah,

55:23 like a normal human being's like feet would almost be touching the ends of the bouncy mat at at regular

55:28 It's like a personal um a personal tread trampoline is what it looks like he's standing on, but then he's walking full stride through the corridor, but then there's also that moment where he almost like falls off a cliff as building. Oh, why did they build the corridor to have edges like large like it's as if the stairs at Hogwarts that are moving around is part of it and you can't quite be certain that when you step next it won't be just an abyss. By the way, you're and you're are you a Harry Potter?

56:02 I'm not I've never uh like and I'm not either. But it does feel like Me neither.

56:07 Yeah. Yeah. You don't like you don't like the Harry Potter movies, right, Jason? Never heard of Have you read any of the books? I I don't even know what it is.

56:13 Perry who? Are you saying Perry hotter that? You know, you do that. I know about Perry Hutter. Um and uh but the the the virtual like storage room, file cabinet, library space. I feel like Harry Potter kind of stole the like movable.

56:36 JK Rowling, big fan of Emily. So, obviously in writing this episode, you saw this movie a lot. Are there any like little things that just jump out at you as being like I mean we talked about a lot, but like even lines or moments that you're like, "Oh my god, I

56:51 Well, Dennis Mill, we already started talking about Dennis Miller, but it the jokes the way that Nick was describing it sort of the way that a drama writer writes comedy. every single I get the spirit of it that he's supposed to be like a little bit nasty but everything is just like a click off to engross the way he describ he's like nipples like pencil erasers

57:14 and everyone in the room is like yeah pencil erasers in case you make a mistake

57:21 oh you're going to use her boobs to erase crossword puzzle cuz now you're going to put it I don't I and you might get into this in the like I read the I Googled like reviews of the movie be like how was this movie received and I know Paul you might

57:36 I have a couple but go ahead well the first line of the Roger Eert review do you have that

57:42 I do it's like uh sorry you tell me if you if you have that it's like like basically the first line is like the wonder bra does amazing things for De Mo's cleavage but this movie is a little bit lost in its delivery and you're like why did the like Roger Eert look like my grandma

57:59 he also said basically a launch pad for sex scenes, but it's not. It's one he doesn't even have sex with his wife, which I think would have been interesting, too. Like just to show like like he's a horny guy like sex to show that there was some

58:17 I don't know some even chemistry there between them. It's a weird thing. Yeah. I wonder if they were trying to make the point that like he used to be this like real playboy, but now he's been domesticated and Deme Moore is opening the door to wildness again.

58:32 That's what she says to Yeah. And and that that it's almost like his home life has to be sexless

58:38 in order for the other side of it to seem attractive. But like the more the that that's like

58:44 But I think that should be that like like um it shouldn't have that much of a a spread almost. I think that that's part of the movie though is like this guy used to be a playboy and now he got married and like he's a work a day guy and he's been beaten down and doesn't it suck

59:00 and like you know what's he supposed to do when this hottie tries to blow him? Yeah. You get passed over by a promotion for by It's like the guy on the boat. They might as well had the guy on the boat narrate the movie.

59:11 I know. Well, obviously we had opinions about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion. Now it's time for second opinions. The movie was a piece of [ __ ] yet this person recommends it. Tell me, what is the message? Maybe that art is subjective. I need a second opinion. Thank you, John Loa, uh, for that amazing song as always. Um, well, get ready people because if you thought the movie had some problematic issues, these reviews go there. Uh, these are five star reviews cold from Amazon. Uh, average rating of this movie 4.5 out of five stars. 237 total reviews. 65% are fivestar reviews.

1:00:09 Holy [ __ ] And uh let's see, Maria writes, "A very interesting and realistic movie that brought us sexual harassment in the workplace and showed us how as women become CEOs, VPs, and directors of corporations, they start to show some of the same characteristics shown by men in the workplace. Women can be just as aggressive and focused on seeking sex with men that they work with. I think this movie shows a very realistic, true-to-life story that happens every day in corporate America. Five stars. Excellent.

1:00:38 Yeah. Oh. Um, that is uh that is kind of the tenor of many of this. Um, and then this one I really like because it's a little bit different from Paulo Roberto Ilas. He writes, "Disclosure is a suspenseful corporate intrigue drama, showing us what goes on behind closed doors in many places. It has an appealing interface to an audience by showing how products can be made flawed by careless manufacturing. Five stars. This Wow, I love that, guys. That guy's the movie that guy watched was very different.

1:01:11 I really like that. I happen to work in CDROM manufacturing. Joanie writes, "Love this movie. Watched it over 20 times. Will watch it again now.

1:01:24 Five stars." Chachi writes, "Not a fan." Can you imagine being like, "This is my favorite movie." 20 times watching this movie.

1:01:34 You know that movie when you meet someone and you're starting to kind of fall in love. You're like, "Oh, do we have the same taste in movies?" Like, I want to show you this. I want

1:01:41 favorite movie. On three. One, two, three. Disclosure. Oh, let's spend our lives together.

1:01:49 Um, this one, um, this one is written by Paula Pumpkin. Uh, did not care for the sex part. But overall, the movie is very good and held your interest till the end. Five stars.

1:01:58 Paula. Um, this one is, uh, written like this. Great movie. It shows just how far some women will go to get what they want in the workplace. This is not just a movie. It happens every day in the workplace. If you're charged with sexual harassment, it is a nightmare. When

1:02:19 this became a workplace issue, my wife asked me if I knew the definition of sexual harassment. And I said, "No." And her response was, "Well, you know what it is? Anything you want it to be." So, I'm glad that I retired six years ago.

1:02:33 Buy the stocks. Wait. Meaning this guy was like constantly sexually harass that day. She told me that and I was done

1:02:41 and I but truly it was like my wife and I know that I sexually harass women constantly. My wife gets it. I'm a piece of [ __ ]

1:02:49 Um so those are some of the reviews. Uh some interesting uh side facts. I did tell you the movie made 83 here. It made 213 million worldwide. So that means you know that's giant. The uh the tagline was sex is power. Um and it was not written I mean the novel is written by Michael Kiteon but the screenplay was written by the the same guy Paul Anastasio who wrote uh Donnie Brasow and Quiz Show. Yeah. Which is interesting. And then uh if you do have a kink of watching Donald Sutherland turn into a vampire, then you definitely need to watch this movie because that is a scene we didn't really talk about, but is one of the best scenes. Michael Douglas has been traumatized

1:03:34 and he gets and he has a nightmare where he has a sexy dream about Donald Sutherland

1:03:39 coming onto him like a vampire. It's so bizarre that Wait, I don't think it's like a vampire though. He doesn't have fangs or anything. Oh, I guess

1:03:48 he's trying to make out with him. You're right. And I think I took it as like you thought he was turning into a vampire.

1:03:54 I thought he was turning into a vampire sexually assaulted. Oh jeez. I'm an idiot. Uh I cuz he cuz you know what? I looked at the way he was coming with his mouth.

1:04:05 We don't have it weird. We don't have June here today, but I feel like that is the moment that is like a June moment where she's like and he was a vampire. I was wondering why no one guy got no uh got no was like what does Paul mean?

1:04:22 Cuz I thought you were maybe referring to another Donald Sutherland role. Oh no.

1:04:26 And I was like oh no there is cuz in my mind this guy the merger goes through the the the CD ROM business takes off and then everything happens but then it becomes Panam and it's the Hunger Games and he's President Snow.

1:04:41 I'm just watching it again. They do it like a very tight perspective. It's like Michael Douglas's POV. Yeah. And then he goes, "Come on, Bob." Oh. Oh,

1:04:49 yeah. Now for He comes in for a kiss and it looks like he's going to suck his Yeah. And his And his tongue is out like before like his tongue is is making the first contact.

1:04:59 You thought he was trying to bite his neck for blood. Yeah. I thought he was having like a weird dream like like they're sucking me dry at this company.

1:05:07 I DID NOT EVEN PULL IT TOGETHER. IT'S SO BIZARRE THAT now he also feels like Well, that's the beauty of a movie like this. It's all you're interpreting. It's open to interp.

1:05:15 It's all valid. It's all valid. Well, obviously uh we you know, we normally ask, do you recommend this movie? But I think you need to watch this movie to or not. You don't need to watch it to enjoy it, but I think it'll give another level of enjoyment.

1:05:27 I would say like this the episode that is I don't know what number it is in season 3, but it's it's it's later in the season. It's probably like episode eight or nine of season 3. The it's disclosure the musical. Um, the other part of that episode is the Queer Eye guys do the Queeree Coach Steve. It's like one of my favorite episodes of the show.

1:05:50 Um, Jay recommends uh, Coach Steve. And anyway, the point is I can't recommend this movie enough just in general, but also specifically when you watch Big Mouth, uh, the Disclosure episode, you will it will be that much more gratifying.

1:06:07 And Big Mouth comes out next week, uh, on Netflix. What's the actual day it drops? October 4th it drops. So, this is a great thing to do leading up to watching Big Mouth so that when the season comes out, you

1:06:18 watch it every day. Watch Disclosure. Can you watch this one out of order? I would watch it in order. I would let I would let the season cuz there's some stuff that happens in the in the episode that are relevant to the season. And so, I would like I would I would wait to watch it until you hit it.

1:06:34 Who are the stars of the Disclosure Musical? Is that a secret? Uh, it's not a secret. I mean,

1:06:41 Nick is maybe the other ones we can. Yes, the other ones. Um, Nick is Yes, we'll leave the rest a secret, but Nick may be the star of the show.

1:06:50 Are you guys he might have a Michael Douglas wig? Maybe the success of this, like obviously the success of this show, Big Mouth, and this season especially, I think is everybody's really highly anticipated. Will this will this episode launch a musical disclosure? Like are you interested are you interested in mounting disclosure the musical or are you going to let high schools ac or middle schools I guess across the country mount productions of

1:07:19 we got to talk to Samuel French about that smart yeah the book the book of this would be great

1:07:24 it's going to be and Mark Rivers Mark Rivers wrote all the music for he how many songs did you guys do I mean

1:07:31 you've got you've got the power now you've got the power now aggressive woman likes to be on top

1:07:37 the interpretive [ __ ] ballet. Yes. Um and there's one or two others. I can't remember.

1:07:44 There's like a long Oh, there's a there's a long montage. The whole the whole opening It's finally happening. We waited so long. The opening number is like the opening number of it's for the rehearsal or the tryyouts for it, but it's a there's at least three or four full numbers in the show.

1:08:01 I cannot wait. It's crazy. And I really do recommend like we talked about this movie being like two hours and 10 minutes, but it goes down smooth. It really is. I mean like I watch it totally like I was like I'm I like a lot of the times I'm looking at like how much longer how much longer. I'm like no I it tells a story well. I mean it's confus

1:08:20 unlike a lot again a lot of the movies we do are poorly made. This is this is an impeccably uh constructed movie from the you know from great filmmakers from smart you know like this is it is absolute trash but um you you can it is certainly constructed well you're not I wasn't confused I like like during the visit

1:08:41 I was I was I was confused about all of the text. Did you guys fully understand?

1:08:46 No. I mean that stuff I feel like again it's like they're just saying go fill in the blank. Oh, and by the way, we didn't even just mention like what emails LOOK LIKE.

1:08:55 OH, YES. I WROTE IT DOWN. I wrote One of the things I loved about this movie is it opens with the girl, his daughter, um going, "Dad, you got a email." Yeah. Email. And the emails are written like letters.

1:09:08 And she reads it aloud from the beginning to the end. The entire yells it I guess to nobody in the house.

1:09:15 Yeah. Almost everybody does that. Almost everybody reads their emails aloud as if like they need to comprehend it in a way that is

1:09:23 He also has some great one-sided phone calls, by the way. She's doing some great one-sided phone call cell phone work.

1:09:29 I mean, yeah, that the cell phone I love like all the D. I mean, and it's Oh, and I love the guy on the on the boat who's like, "Remember when cell phones were huge?" And he was like, "Yeah, I was in Wall Street when they were huge.

1:09:40 I was Gordon Gecko. Remember, I'm synonymous with those giant cell phones." Now, why at the end of the movie, blah blah blah blah blah, everything happens. Why does why did Okay, so they're they're they're in the car and his Michael Douglas's daughter says, "Daddy, I didn't believe any of the stuff they said about you. Who told the daughter?

1:10:01 Reading the emails." And why? Why did they What if the daughter was a friend? Why did they tell like a sevenyear-old what was going on? It wasn't in the papers. I think what they're saying is like the kids are I think yeah saying like kids are can't see what's happening.

1:10:21 Um and uh and just in a weird moment of life imitating art in 2003 Dei was sued for sexual harassment by her ranch caretaker. Um he claimed that she fired him after he rejected her advances. Ultimately she was cleared of all charges. But I also feel like I'm sure that ranch was like this like

1:10:43 where did I get this idea from? I feel like I the ranch. So, um All right. Can I promote one more thing?

1:10:51 Yeah. Yeah, please. Um I'm also going on a standup tour, middle-aged boy tour this fall all over the country. So, I'll be uh doing shows uh wherever these guys and June have been running through this wonderful nation. I'll be following up.

1:11:05 It's a great show. I've seen it. Go see it, everybody. I'm very excited to see it. I've seen pieces of it and it's very good. Uh, where can they go get tickets for that?

1:11:12 I can go to nickroll.com. Middle-aged boy tour. I love it. Emily, uh, anything you want to talk about are

1:11:18 No, just Big Mouth. Very excited. October 4th. I love it. All right. I really truly do this season of Big Mouth. Uh, I'm very pleased with there's some crazy episodes.

1:11:27 I cannot wait. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Emily. Big Mouth is coming back season 3 on Netflix October 4th. And if you have not picked up June's book, go and get it. It's called Represent: A Woman's Guide to Running for Office and Changing the World. It is fantastic. Give it to a woman in your life who you think should run for office. Or if you are that woman, pick up the book and make sure you head on over to tub.com. Uh we have amazing shirts, uh brand new shirts from the tour, from our last couple of episodes. Uh, a lot of them are on sale right now, so definitely check that out at tpub.com/stores/hdtgm.

1:12:07 And a big thanks to Averil Halley, who helps us with all of our film choices. Uh, Nick Kylie, who does all of our research, Molly Reynolds, who just chipped in this week and took a lot of information and gave it to me right before the show. Devin who of course is engineering this entire thing. Cody, one of our producers, and everybody here at Earwolf, we appreciate you. Make sure that we hear your voices next week on the mini episode. You can give us a call at 619 Paul ask. That's 619 Paul ask to hear what your thoughts about disclosure are or about your life. We want to hear from you on our many episodes. And if you're still listening right now and hope you are, write and review the podcast on iTunes. It helps us. It really does. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you next time. Bye for now.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Disclosure w/ Nick Kroll & Emily Altman (HDTGM Matinee)"?

Paul Scheer (Host), Jason Mantzoukas (Host), Emily Altman (Guest), Nick Kroll (Guest).

What is "Disclosure w/ Nick Kroll & Emily Altman (HDTGM Matinee)" about?

The discussion centers on the 1994 film *Disclosure*, which addresses the unconventional topic of sexual harassment experienced by a straight white male character, played by Michael Douglas, in a corporate setting. The hosts and their guests explore the film's themes, its cultural impact, and the broader implications of its narrative while celebrating its mediocrity and comedic missteps.

What is mentioned in this How Did This Get Made? episode?

18 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Disclosure, Nick Kroll, Michael Douglas, How Did This Get Made, Big Mouth, Demi Moore. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Disclosure w/ Nick Kroll & Emily Altman (HDTGM Matinee)"?

The episode runs 1 h 13 min; the transcript is about 14,325 words in 319 timestamped sections.

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