Transcript

Last Looks: Monkeybone w/ Brad Meltzer

From How Did This Get Made? · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 52 min · 10,469 words · 147 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Last Looks: Monkeybone w/ Brad Meltzer", an episode of How Did This Get Made? published January 23, 2026 (52 min, about 10,469 words). It mentions 33 people, works and ideas, including Monkey Bone, How Did This Get Made, Brad Meltzer, Paul Sheer, Return to Oz.

What this episode is about

A quick dive into Monkeybone, exploring the film’s baffling premise, Brendan Fraser’s off-kilter coma-downtown setting, and the cultish, mixed reception it provoked, including reflections on its ambiguous tone and potential alternative titles. It also notes the chaotic production ideas and fan reinterpretations that surround the movie.

Key takeaways

  • Monkey Bone’s confusion proves meta-commentary can be louder than plot, highlighting tonal derailment as a feature, not a flaw.
  • Downtown vs Idville whimsy exposes how location framing warps our memory of a film’s stakes and gravity.
  • Drop Dead Fraser—fan-taglines reveal fanaticism’s power, turning memes into persuasive speculative pitches with real-world traction.
  • The ‘funeral home’ mystique hints at a satire-ready underworld: secrecy as entertainment, not merely mystery.
  • Brad Meltzer’s appearances remind us celebrity authorship turns trivia into cultural currency, blurring authorship, witness, and fiction.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Monkey Bone, How Did This Get Made, Brendan Fraser, Discord
  2. – 10:00: How Did This Get Made, Monkey Bone, Craig Robinson, Ghost Mut
  3. – 15:00: Monkey Bone, Discord, Nicholas Cage, Mitch Kappa
  4. – 20:00: Monkey Bone, Brad Meltzer, Paul Sheer, Henry Celich
  5. – 25:00: Monkey Bone, Brad Meltzer, How Did This Get Made
  6. – 50:00: Return to Oz, Monkey Bone
  7. – 51:33: Return to Oz, How Did This Get Made, Discord

Notable quotes from "Last Looks: Monkeybone w/ Brad Meltzer"

  • And I have a nudity flashback. That's right everybody. All this and more on a brand new episode of How Did This Get Made? Last looks hit the theme.
    about How Did This Get Made · at
  • I say you nailed it and got out. all right. Coming up on today's episode we're going to break down so much in Monkey Bone, a movie where I believe there's going to be less of a…
    about Monkey Bone · at
  • Comic book writer. this guy has been on the show before. and we're going to break down his brand new book, The Viper. That's right. Brad Meltzer is coming back to the show in…
    about Brad Meltzer · at
  • Course, you know why you're here to hear the reveal of next week's movie. That's right. We got a good one for you. And right now, if you're in New York City or you want to…
    about All Out · at
  • Whole time. Since Celich couldn't do stop motion, he scrapped the puppeteer idea. And we got Brendan Fraser as a cartoonist version instead. Just more proof that Chris Columbus…
    about Brendan Fraser · at
  • Here I am as Miss Kitty in a film called Monkey Bone. The movie would have been incredible,, at least, the, underworld part, if the men at 20th Century Fox the Suits, hadn't fired the director, a true artist, Henry Celich, halfway.
    about 20th Century Fox · at
  • Thank you, Dr. Guts. But I got to say bingo wings, that's a winner. Ghost Mut you don't get anything, but you do get this amazing theme song. Hit it.
    about Ghost Mut · at
  • Episode. Now, it is almost the end of the show, which means it is finally time to announce our next movie. Next week we will be saying goodbye to Monkey Bone and returning to No Place Like Home.
    about Return to Oz · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Brad Meltzer — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at
    Interview subject promoting his novel The Viper and discussing research into Dover mortuary work and witness protection.
  • Paul Sheer — Person · Host · 3 mentions · first at
    Primary host of the Last Looks episode; introduces segments, reads listener corrections, and interviews Brad Meltzer.
    What's up all my coma guys and coma gals? It's me Paul Sheer, your nightmare guide through downtown and welcome to How Did This Get Made? Last looks where Wait a second. I'm…
  • Brendan Fraser — Person · Referenced actor (film subject) · 3 mentions · first at
    Star of Monkeybone; used as the anchor for discussion about the movie’s setting (“Downtown”) and plot confusion.
  • Henry Celich — Person · Referenced director (misspelled; Henry Selick) · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited via listener correction and Rose McGowan quote as the original director/artist behind Monkeybone and later director of Coraline and James and the Giant Peach.
    Was a lot of discussion about Ben Stiller's possible involvement in the film, but according to Henry Celich on the film's DVD commentary, he said his original plan was to have…
  • Simon Rich — Person · Referenced author (Broadway source material) · 1 mention · first at
    His short stories are the basis for the Broadway show All In/All Out plug; Paul recommends his books and credits him with the source for An American Pickle.
    Rich, I love Simon Rich. If you've not read one of his books, you're missing out. Simon Rich I believe wrote the short story that Seth Rogan based An American Pickle on, which…
  • Edgar Allan Poe — Person · Referenced historical figure (and character reference) · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as part of Monkeybone’s prison cast and in a listener call about “Edgar Allan Poe IV” leveraging the legacy.
    Edgar Allan Poe's family getting paid.
  • Nicholas Cage — Person · Referenced actor (alternate casting) · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned via listener correction: Henry Selick allegedly wanted Nicolas Cage as Monkeybone’s lead in an earlier stop-motion concept.
    Film, but according to Henry Celich on the film's DVD commentary, he said his original plan was to have Nick Cage play the lead character. Whoa. Yes. and have him be a…
  • Ghost Mut — Person · Listener/Discord contributor (username) · 3 mentions · first at
    Provides a correction/omission about the UK term “bingo wings,” which Paul highlights as a winning submission.
  • Sarah Silverman — Person · Referenced performer (Broadway cast) · 2 mentions · first at
    Named as part of the comedic lineup for the Broadway show plug featuring Jason.
    Much. I love his writing and this is a great night because not only is it full of hilarious people like Sarah Silverman, Heidi Gardner, Craig Robinson, but the band Lawrence…
  • Craig Robinson — Person · Referenced performer (Broadway cast) · 2 mentions · first at
    Named as part of the Broadway show lineup being promoted.
    Great night because not only is it full of hilarious people like Sarah Silverman, Heidi Gardner, Craig Robinson, but the band Lawrence, who I worked with when I did this big…
  • Dr. Guts 103 — Person · Listener/Discord contributor (username) · 2 mentions · first at
    Shares behind-the-scenes trivia about Monkeybone’s early concept and casting via DVD commentary.
    Monkey bone. It should have been called Bingo Wings. I love that. Thank you Ghost Mut. Dr. Guts 103 writes, There was a lot of discussion about Ben Stiller's possible…
  • Heidi Gardner — Person · Referenced performer (Broadway cast) · 1 mention · first at
    Named as part of the Broadway show lineup being promoted.
    Great night because not only is it full of hilarious people like Sarah Silverman, Heidi Gardner, Craig Robinson, but the band Lawrence, who I worked with when I did this big…
  • Seth Rogan — Person · Referenced actor/producer (adaptation reference) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the person who adapted Simon Rich’s story into the film An American Pickle.
    Read one of his books, you're missing out. Simon Rich I believe wrote the short story that Seth Rogan based An American Pickle on, which is a movie I really enjoyed. But I love…
  • Vincent D'Onofrio — Person · Referenced actor (plug for FX project) · 1 mention · first at
    Paul mentions him in a plug for an FX show called Beauty, joking about a transformation involving Ashton Kutcher.
    By them. and I also just want to plug I don't know when it's coming out, but I am in FX's Beauty. That's right. One shot makes you hot. do you know about beauty? Get ready for beauty. Beauty, I think, might blow your mind. Here's a spoiler.
  • Mitch Kappa — Person · Listener/Discord contributor (username) · 1 mention · first at
    Posts a critique-style comment about a continuity/logic issue in Monkeybone (corpse organ removal scene).
    Motion, not real people. Anyway, Nick Cage would have been genius and we were robbed. Mitch Kappa chunk style writes, Griffin gave a valiant defense of this movie, but let see…
  • Taylor Swift — Person · Incidental mention · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in passing regarding a documentary
    Everybody for watching my Taylor Swift documentary that I put up on YouTube last week. The comments have been wonderful. They've really blown me away.

Books & papers

  • I Am Walt Disney — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Part of Brad Meltzer's series of books mentioned during the episode
    Witness protection program. And he also was in the most top secret funeral home in the country. Brad is one of the coolest. He writes all these amazing books. Like they're like…
  • I Am Jackie Robinson — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Part of Brad Meltzer's series of books mentioned during the episode
    I remember we got my kid the I am Jackie Robinson and the I am Jane Goodall and the We Are the Beatles and they are addicted to them. They are so good and he's always got great ones.
  • I Am Jane Goodall — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Part of Brad Meltzer's series of books mentioned during the episode
    I remember we got my kid the I am Jackie Robinson and the I am Jane Goodall and the We Are the Beatles and they are addicted to them. They are so good and he's always got great ones.
  • We Are the Beatles — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Part of Brad Meltzer's series of books mentioned during the episode
    I remember we got my kid the I am Jackie Robinson and the I am Jane Goodall and the We Are the Beatles and they are addicted to them. They are so good and he's always got great ones.

Companies & orgs

  • 20th Century Fox — Company · Referenced company · 1 mention · first at
    Studio behind Monkey Bone, criticized for their decisions
  • AOL — Company · Incidental mention · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in passing as part of a joke
    Deadad Frasier. It is available in PDF form only. and just hit me on my AOL account. big shout out to the Midwest Shakes for that opening theme song. Now remember, if you have…
  • AOL account — Company · Incidental mention · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in passing as part of a joke
    Deadad Frasier. It is available in PDF form only. and just hit me on my AOL account. big shout out to the Midwest Shakes for that opening theme song. Now remember, if you have…

Concepts & topics

  • Bingo Wings — Concept · Referenced concept · 3 mentions · first at
    Term explained by a listener, related to the movie Monkey Bone
    It's called bingo wings. Yes, that's right. Bingo wings. This comes from the way in bingo halls when a winner waves their arms in the air in celebration that loose arm flap fat flops around like wings. Pretty awful nickname, but.

Places & events

  • All Out — Event · Secondary recommendation · 1 mention · first at
    Event featuring Jason Mantzoukas, promoted with a discount code

Media & podcasts

  • Monkey Bone — Media · Core topic · 17 mentions · first at
    Main movie discussed in the episode
  • How Did This Get Made — Media · Host · 6 mentions · first at
    The podcast itself, hosting the discussion
  • Return to Oz — Media · Primary recommendation · 4 mentions · first at
    Next week's movie to be discussed on the podcast
  • Coraline — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Film directed by Henry Celich, mentioned in comparison to Monkey Bone
    Move. Later, Celich went on to direct Coraline and James and the Giant Peach both classics. The set design, costumes prosthetics, actors, all at a master level,, at least, in…
  • James and the Giant Peach — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Film directed by Henry Celich, mentioned in comparison to Monkey Bone
    Move. Later, Celich went on to direct Coraline and James and the Giant Peach both classics. The set design, costumes prosthetics, actors, all at a master level,, at least, in…
  • Beauty — Media · Secondary recommendation · 1 mention · first at
    Upcoming show mentioned by Paul Sheer
    I've just been so incredibly moved by them. and I also just want to plug I don't know when it's coming out, but I am in FX's Beauty. That's right. One shot makes you hot. do you know about beauty? Get.
  • FX's Beauty — Media · Secondary recommendation · 1 mention · first at
    Upcoming show mentioned by Paul Sheer
    I've just been so incredibly moved by them. and I also just want to plug I don't know when it's coming out, but I am in FX's Beauty. That's right. One shot makes you hot. do you know about beauty? Get.

Sponsors

  • Discord — Company · Sponsor · 6 mentions · first at
    Platform where listeners can submit content for the podcast
    And these songs are really easy to give us because all you got to do is go to our website, you click on the submit a song button, and then that's it. You drop it in the drop box and you get the.

Full transcript with timestamps

Edgar Allan Poe's family getting paid. The world's most secretive funeral home. And I have a nudity flashback. That's right everybody. All this and more on a brand new episode of How Did This Get Made? Last looks hit the theme.

Last, [singing], looks we can [singing] hardly wait. Last looks. It's a Polyn date. What's up all my coma guys and coma gals? It's me Paul Sheer, your nightmare guide through downtown and welcome to How Did This Get Made? Last looks where Wait a second. I'm realizing something here. Downtown. Okay, that that's where Brendan Frasier is trapped in the movie Monkey Bone. And now I didn't give it that much thought. Downtown, right? That's where it is. It's like downtown Los Angeles. It's just a way to describe where he's at. But I'm looking at it and I'm realizing there's a space between downtown and town. All I'm saying is this. Downtown is actually a town right? It's not downtown. It's downtown.

So, there might even be a downtown downtown. Oh, wow. Now, my mind is exploding. I love this subtle detail. Why? Because it's confusing. Because Brendan Frasier isn't even down. Technically, his body is up. He's out of the coma, but he is trapped in downtown but he is also awake. So now I don't even understand why you call it the downtown. It should be like, I don't know, Idville or, you know, uh, I don't know, Idville is what I'm going with. Um, yeah, Monkey Bone is confusing. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. H no matter how much Griffin Newman explained the plot to us, I still uh didn't like it, even though maybe I respected it a little bit more. Uh but Monkey Bone is a film that could be many things. Uh one of our users, Funfax 47, thinks it could have been called Drop Dead Fraser. Did I do it right, Scott? Scott is looking at me. Yes, I did it right. Scott was nervous. I was going to say uh Drop Dead

Frasier, which was the title of my uh spec comedy pilot uh where um we team up a world of Cheers villains who go out to try to kill Frasier Crane. Kind of like that uh bring on the bad guys uh Spider-Man thing. Uh which I got to tell you, if you're uh somebody in the industry, you never got back to me about that. I I really wish you would have read Drop Deadad Frasier. Um, but again I don't want to I don't want to associate my Spec comedy pitch with Funfax 47's uh alt movie tagline, which they submitted on the Discord, which is Drop Deadad Fraser. Uh, anyway, uh, get back to me if you want to read Drop Deadad Frasier. It is available in PDF form only. Uh, and just hit me on my AOL account. Um, big shout out to the Midwest Shakes for that opening theme song. Now remember, if you have an alt movie tagline or a theme song, you can just submit it via the Discord at discord.gg/hdtgm.

And these songs are really easy to give us uh because all you got to do is go to our website, you click on the submit a song button, and then that's it. You drop it in the drop box and you get the hell out of there. Uh remember, as you put it in there so quick, uh you also should make the song quick, too. 15 to 20 seconds is best. We're not saying that because we don't love you. We're saying that because we want to protect you. That's right. No one likes a long song. Do what Midwest Shakes did so well. You nailed it, got out. Some people would say hit it or quit it, but I say you nailed it and got out. Um, all right. Coming up on today's episode we're going to break down so much in Monkey Bone, a movie where I believe there's going to be less of a division between Team Sanity and Team Fred. If that was a a breakdown, I think that there's a a team monkey and a team bone.

No, that sounds wrong, too. Let's just call it team sanity. Uh, we are going to play a very exclusive, well, it's not that exclusive, but it is an exclusive deleted scene from our Monkey Bone episode in just a little bit. Uh, there was so much in there. A shout out to our producer Molly, uh, which didn't make the episode, but, uh, we love Molly, we love Scott, we love our whole team here. Uh, we also have a very special guest. I mean, a no messing around special guest. I'm talking about a New York Times best-selling author, a award-winning comic book writer. Uh, this guy has been on the show before. Uh, and we're going to break down his brand new book, The Viper. That's right. Brad Meltzer is coming back to the show in just a little bit. He's going to challenge Jason on some comic book uh trivia, but more importantly, he's going to tell us some stuff that blew my mind about the witness protection program. And he also

was in the most top secret funeral home in the country. Brad is one of the coolest. He writes all these amazing books. Like they're like little biographies. The IM books like I am Walt Disney, I am Sally Ride. If you haven't uh checked these out, they are great. Uh, I remember we got my kid the I am Jackie Robinson and the I am Jane Goodall and the We Are the Beatles and they are addicted to them. They are so so good and he's always got great ones coming out. I love Brad. I can't wait for you to hear what we're talking to him about in just a little bit. And of course, you know why you're here to hear the reveal of next week's movie. That's right. We got a good one for you. And right now, uh, if you're in New York City or you want to travel in New York City, you could catch Jason on Broadway in All Out. All Out is a hilarious night of short stories from Simon Rich. Simon Rich, I love Simon Rich. If you've not

read one of his books, you're missing out. Simon Rich uh, I believe uh, wrote the short story that Seth Rogan based An American Pickle on, which is a movie I really enjoyed. But I love Simon so much. I love his writing and this is a great night because not only is it full of hilarious people like Sarah Silverman, Heidi Gardner, Craig Robinson, but uh the band Lawrence, who I uh worked with when I did this big fundraiser for everybody when we were out of work during the strikes, uh are also playing along uh with them every single night and they were just bringing down the house. But here's the thing.

You want to see Jason live? You want to see him alongside Sarah Silverman, Heidi Gardner, and Craig Robinson? Well, guess what? We're going to give you a 20% off on tickets. That's right. How did this get made? Listeners will get an exclusive discount code. Just go to allout Broadway.com. Use the code allout pod to get up to 20% off tickets. That is code allout pod for up to 20% off tickets. You can also find the link and discount code in this episode in the show notes as well. I want to thank everybody for watching my Taylor Swift documentary that I put up on YouTube last week. The comments have been wonderful. They've really blown me away.

Uh I've just been uh so incredibly moved by them. Um and uh I also just want to plug uh I don't know when it's coming out, but I am in FX's Beauty. That's right. One shot makes you hot. Um do you know about beauty? Get ready for beauty. Beauty, I think, might blow your mind. Here's a spoiler. Vincent Denafhrio takes a shot. Who does he become? Ashton Kutcher. Tune in people. That's all you need to know. All right that is all the plugs I got. Let's get into it. Last week, we talked at length about Monkey Bone. Well, we had questions and we might have even missed a few things. Here's your chance to set us straight. Fact check us if you will.

It is now time for corrections and omissions. Well, I know what you got to say. So, I'm going to tell you what kind of way. I'm going to call and thank you, John Steel, for that awesome theme song. Let's go to the Discord. Ghost Mut writes, "In the opening cartoon, young Stew has a fetish for his elderly teacher's loose underarm skin. In the UK, there's actually a specific derogatory term for this loose skin fat. It's called bingo wings. Yes, that's right. Bingo wings. This comes from the way in bingo halls when a winner waves their arms in the air in celebration that loose arm flap fat flops around like wings. Pretty awful nickname, but what else would you call them? By the way, I love bingo wings. Bingo wings. I mean, we should have used that. Maybe the movie shouldn't have been called monkey bone. It should have been called Bingo Wings. Uh, I love that. Thank you Ghost Mut. Dr. Guts 103 writes, "There

was a lot of discussion about Ben Stiller's possible involvement in the film, but according to Henry Celich on the film's DVD commentary, he said his original plan was to have Nick Cage play the lead character." Whoa. Yes. and have him be a puppeteer instead of a cartoonist. I love this. And then once uh he was in the coma, the film would be stop motion and Cage would become one of his puppets. I mean, it's wow. Very Malovich, right? Being John Malovich. Unfortunately, uh producer Chris Columbus insisted that audiences can't relate to an animated character, so the lead would have to be liveaction the whole time. Since Celich couldn't do stop motion, he scrapped the puppeteer idea. And we got Brendan Fraser as a cartoonist version instead. Just more proof that Chris Columbus was the true villain of this film. And here is some pre-production storyboard art from the film where they were still thinking

about having Nicholas Cage as the lead. Now, you can go on Discord and check out this art. It looks awesome. And wow what a cooler idea to do this this way. Wow. Now, I like the movie more. I like the movie more if it was all like stop motion, not real people. Anyway, uh Nick Cage would have been genius and we were robbed. Uh Mitch Kappa chunk style writes, "Griffin gave a valiant defense of this movie, but let see him explain away Bob Odenkirk doing organ removal on a clothed corpse." Ooh, Mitch Kappa laying it down. Yeah. Uh look, sometimes you got to make your day. Uh, you don't have time to listen to the scripty. Oh, it was in the other hand.

Oh, we should not be fully clothed. No you got to shoot the scene. Comedy people. Comedy with a K. Uh, that's what I think that scene is all about. Let's go to the phones. Julian from New York.

Hey,, this, is, Julian, calling, about, the Monkey Bone episode, specifically Griffin Zman's rousing defense of that shitty insane movie. So Griffin posits that all of these, you know nightmareinducing figures from history or Ailla the Hobby or Jack the Ripper they are quote creative guys who didn't have an outlet yet. So under this theory, just like our heroes stew, these guys who are bad at drawing, they fall into a coma, quote, there's a little murderer in there who takes over their body and quote does a bunch of bad [ __ ] Uh, you guys know where I'm going with this. There is one historical figure who was famously a mediocre artist who took a turn into nightmare inducing quote unquote bad [ __ ] Is Griffin suggesting that Adolf Hitler's monkey bone took over his body? Is he saying that Hitler's childhood boner is responsible for World War II and the Holocaust? Is Griffin a Hitler apologist? Hang on. Do

we need to cancel Griffin Newman? Okay bye. Wow,, Julian,, I, am, not, touching, that., I am not touching that one bit. Uh, wow. Uh, honestly on the verge of maybe we should edit that out, but no, we Griffin is not uh a Hitler apologist. He is not. We are not canceling Griffin at all. Respect Griffin. He hates ICE. He is a defender of democracy. He I mean he likes Stalin. I I know that to be true. Uh all right, let's go back to the phones. From Connecticut, we have Sarah.

Hi,, Paul., I, have, to, say, I, was, kind, of sad to see you guys did Monkey Bone. Uh it's actually one of my favorite movies. It's just so strange and weird and I've watched it a million times. Um that being said, it seemed like there was some confusion about downtown and uh where Monkey Bone came from. So basically downtown is a collection of all of Earth's nightmares. And uh the reason Monkey Bone is in downtown is because he is the nightmare of Stew. And the only reason he exists is because uh he used to make horrible scary art from the nightmares that he had before he met his girlfriend. And she told him to switch hands drawing and he drew Monkey Bone. Um, and Monkey Bone was a type of nightmare uh about, you know, boners, I guess. And that's why there's all sorts of different kinds of monsters and stuff. And they explain the reason that uh, people are having less nightmares is because of studies like Julie's doing

um, in order to help people sleep better um, and sleep meds and stuff. So, they want more nightmares uh, to populate their world. Um, I hope that helps. I have seriously watched this movie a million times, but I appreciate your guys commentary. Love you lots and have a good one.

There's, downtown, again., There, is downtown again. And she made me realize Okay. Well, got it. Like downtown maybe should be called like nightmare town. Um. Oh man. Yeah. And downtown should be nightmare town or dream zone. Dreamscape. I saw Dreamscape the movie in the theater. 3D glasses. I was so psyched and I thought like that was a time when I thought like all 3D movies might have nudity in it too. I don't know why I thought that but I was like hoping that there's like a kissing scene in that movie. I remember I was like oh maybe I'll see some nudity. No, there's no nudity in that movie. Hold on. Let me double check. I want to make sure there's no nudity cuz I remember being quite titilated at Dreamscape.

Oh my god, there was nudity in Dreamscape. I think it was like a PG movie. brief nudity and paranoid politics. Wait a second. PG-13. It was PG-13 and you saw nudity. I knew it. I knew it. Holy cow. And I believe the nudity was Kate Capshaw. Yeah, I'm right. Wow. Like I have a mind for remembering nudity., All right., Um, let's, go like weird little kid pervert. Uh, let's go back to the phones one more time to hear from the Birkers. That's right Jamie from the Birkers. What do you got?

Hi,, Paul., I, am, a, longtime, listener, and, I finally got to see you guys live um last week in New York and it was a great show. So, Edgar Allan Poe um in the cast of characters in the prison um of Monkey Bone was played by Edgar Allan Poe IVth and now he is calling himself the fourth even though Edgar Allen Poe never had any children. So, I believe he is a great great great nephew of Po. And so if you do a little digging into this man, he's very fascinating. He seems to have made an entire career of doing Po characters and acting work through the Po connection. Um, he eventually had his own, I think it was a one-man play called Posest in 2011 that has some great reviews out there. And um, an excerpt from one from backstage is, "If his famous relative knew what he was doing with his legacy, he'd probably wall that nephew into a wine celler or bury him under some floorboard." So there is that and I am just a big fan. I

hope you guys have a great weekend. Thank you. Bye. Wow,, I, love, that., Keeping, it, in, the family. Keeping it in the family indeed. Guys, I have to tell you, I I am still shook by my Dreamscape revelation. Uh anyway, let's go back to the Discord. I mean, that that Edgar Allen Po thing was actually pretty great, too. Uh, odd, but great., Um,, all right., The, Mighty, Beard writes, "Well, uh, Rose McGallen posted about this movie on Facebook and Instagram back in 2016 and revealed some interesting things. Here is her post.

Here I am as Miss Kitty in a film called Monkey Bone. The movie would have been incredible,, at least, the, underworld part, if the men at 20th Century Fox the Suits, hadn't fired the director, a true artist, Henry Celich, halfway through filming. A profoundly stupid move. Later, Celich went on to direct Coraline and James and the Giant Peach both classics. The set design, costumes prosthetics, actors, all at a master level,, at least, in, the, underworld, part of the film. What Fox turned this film into because of their fear and lack of artistic thinking, was a travesty. They truly robbed us, the audience, of a possible classic. Also, fun fact, uh Monkey Bone was based on a graphic novel called Dark Town. Why are we calling it Downtown?, All right., Oh,, wait,, hold, on.

The weenies at Fox changed the name to Downtown because they were scared that African-Americans would be upset by a psychedelic underground acid trip of a world with a cat for a waitress named Dark Town. Huh. I'm not following that train of thought, Rose. Uh anyway, uh I wonder Oh, now it's getting weirder. Hm. I wonder how many African-American women directors they've hired in ratio to white male directors. That's what Fox should have been concerned with. Okay. Well, that you kind of pulled yourself out. I don't Okay, I'll let it sit. I let it sit because I think there was a the right energy was there. Um anyway Buster Bluth writes at the live show.

How is there not a come chant? Oh man. Well, Buster, you should have been there. We should have had you. We need a come. Uh all right. Wow. So many great corrections and omissions this week. Uh mainly the best one in my opinion is mine about Dreamscape. Um but look, I I am not going to give myself the award even though I probably deserve it. Uh I'm going to give one of you the award. I love that we heard a little bit from Rose McGowan. Uh I also love that we have figured out that Edgar Allen Poe keeps it all in the family. But I think to me I'm going out on a limb and saying something really different. Yes, I know that we've listened to the commentary.

Thank you, Dr. Guts. But I got to say bingo wings, that's a winner. Ghost Mut you don't get anything, but you do get this amazing theme song. Hit it. You win. Yes. Thank you Aaron Webb for that beautiful winners's theme. Remember chime in with your thoughts on these episodes. Give me a call 619 P A L AK. Call at any time. It's a Google line. You're not going to get anyone to pick up. So, call, leave a message, have a fun fact, give me something. Coming up after the break, Jason and I will chat with Brad Meltzer and I will announce our next movie. But first, take a listen to this bonus deleted scene from our Monkey Bone episode where Jason and I discuss our experiences taking the train to the show. While a woman had the loudest cell phone conversation from Washington DC all the way to to New York, screaming into her cell phone. I was like, I am going to [ __ ] murder this person. I sat next to a very lovely

lady who dinged her elbow against the window and we talked about that for about 10 minutes.

Wait,, you're, talking, to, people, on, the train? Not, willingly. Huge, mistake., I, put, on, headphones., If anybody tries to talk to me, I'm like "Nope, that's not happening." Here's why I think she started talking to me. Because I did have a maong card out in my lap and I was playing online ma. I I think I was an easy target for an older woman.

Yeah,, big, time. She's, like,, "This, person, safe." I'm, sorry., Were, you, trying, to, pick, up, an old woman?

Because, if, not,, that, is, a, surefire, way. Like, oh, yes,, it, is, the, 2025, Ma, Jang, card, in bold font. And for people who are slightly color blind

welcome, back., Heck,, by, now,, I'm, sure you've all noticed that every week we re-release an old How Did This Get Made episode back into our feed. These matinea episodes now come out every Tuesday to pair with Monkey Bone. This week's matinea was another movie about a cartoonist interacting with his own creations. I'm talking about 1992's Cool World. And next week's matinea, we'll learn all about June's hatred of breakdancing when we watch Body Rock with guest Allison Breeze. So, keep on checking off all of our replays of classic episodes every Tuesday. And now without any further ado, it is time to welcome Jason and a very special guest.

That's right. We've teased him throughout the show, the one, the only Brad Meltzer, whose brand new book Viper, is in bookstores right now. And people, you're going to love it. You're going to read it. You're going to read it all up. But you know what? Um, let me have him tell you all about. But first John Cohen, play us in. Chat about it. Just about it. Yeah just chat about it. Just chat about it. Yeah.

Brad,, so, excited, to, have, you, back, on, the show. It's been too long. Yeah,, good, to, see, you, guys.

Thrilled, to, have, you, here,, Brad., Brad, one of our most accomplished guests on the show. You are Emmy nominated, a number one New York Times best-selling author. Uh you're writing comic books you're writing non-fiction books, um you're on a book tour, but your new book, The Viper, I am fascinated about this. Jason and I were talking about this before you came on because this is the uh third book in your Ziggola series. And this is all about people who are disappearing, right? I mean like you are in the world or you know a lot about how people disappear whether it's witness uh protection program

you're, in, the, world, of, disappearing people right right is that you're I, do, no, listen, there, is, there, is, a, in, my phone my wife knows if anything happens to me there is a guy to call that l I said put in the word kidnap

and, it, is, literally, I'm, like, you, call him and he's going to be the one to find

we're, going, to, need, that, info, bra because you need to be found I mean but that that's the if you if If you write thrillers for a living, that's what you have to be moving in, right? You have to find like I found this book. It's a crazy story. I was in a funeral home as one is

right? And, um, and, this, guy's, showing, me,, you know, he's showing me around the funeral home doing research for one of the thrillers and he opens up, I see a closet with a padlock

and, I'm, like,, well,, that's, obviously, the most interesting place now, right? So what's in the what's in the closet? He opens it up and he's got all these um old, kind, of, like, ' 90s, era, suits, and sequin gowns. And it's all the clothes that people pick out that they want to be buried in before they die.

Wow. So,, especially, if, you, have, no, family, you pick out what you wear. And so, and it's got like, you know, a Jets jersey and like a hat that like a guy wants to wear cuz his ex-wife hates that hat and he's like, "Put me in the hat." You know like

and, so, like, people, are,, you, know, vindictive. But I'm, just, realizing, that, that's, hilarious like to bury them in the wrong like like not their fandom like or like I mean is it like could you

No,, he, wants, the, hat., He's, like, my, wife hates this hat and it's right. I love it. Like my father is buried in a hat that says best pop. My dad is buried in a baseball cap

cuz, he, was, just, like, f, everything, man., I don't care. He like he wants to like wear the baseball. Like my dad took a picture for his driver's license in a baseball cap. My stepfather is buried in a Walt Disney World t-shirt.

Fantastic. It, says, like, I'm, your, Mickey., Uh, and um and and that was it. And but I will tell you like there is something about being in a funeral home because when no one's there. I think I'm used to being there where you know there's a like there's a pomp and circumstance are coming in, people are grieving, there's a lot going on. in those quiet times, in those in between times when they're not selling you on anything or not showing you, like I imagine that is, you know, a place that's a little bit more unexamined than we probably even realize, like you're saying, like there's a closet full of clothes.

And, not, only, that,, but, you, get, the, full attention of the guy walking you around. So, I'm like, tell me about everything in here. And I was like, what I realized is if you know, so so the book opens and like guy walks into a funeral home, he's carrying a blue suit and it's a suit he wants to be buried in. Just exactly what I saw that day. But what I realized that day is if you go to a bank and you open up a new bank account, there's a file that's filled out and paperwork that's done. Government wants to track you they'll find you. You go to the UPS store and open up a PO box, there's paperwork done. If the government needs to find you, they can figure it out and track you down. You know, there's like Wi-Fi cookie jars now. Tell you who stole the last chocolate chip, right?

But if you take the outfit that you're going to be buried in and you secretly sew something inside that suit and you give it to the local funeral mortician and he puts it in his closet with a padlock on it, you have the ultimate hiding space that no one will ever track. And basically that's what happens. The guy walks in, hands it over, hides something in it. He goes back to his motel room. They're like "Where is it?" He's like "I don't know what you're talking about." They shoot him dead. And basically the suit winds up in the hands of no one that you would ever expect. I just ruined chapter one of the Viper for you, but that's chapter one.

I, mean,, I'm, already, in. Great., I, love, that., Now,, Zigg, is, a mortician like Zigg is, you know, one of your characters here in the book. And this idea that now I'm forget if I'm misremembering it, but like does Zigg work at the Dover Air Force Base or Okay, so the Dover Air Force Base, the most secretive uh funeral home in in the world or the country

in, the, in, the, whole, So, I, I, do, a, lot, of work with the USO. They bring over, you know, in the USO they bring over thriller writers. I mean, they actually like we went we went the day after the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders and like the MMA fighters and then it was like a bunch of authors. Oh, I I I went after I went after football players and and models. And it's hard. It's hard. Yeah

it's, hard., My, friend, was, like,, "Can, you tape the audible sigh when you walked in the room?" Like, I want to hear how it all just went down. And

they, keep, asking, me, to, go, with, all, the models. They keep being like, "You're a you're a model, right?"

100%., You, should,, by, the, way,, go., I Anyone should go. Like USO, is, one, of, the, best, experiences, I've ever been in because they take care of you. One of the things I love is they do want to get people pumped about you being there. And when I went, uh, we were there with Rob Wiggle, who was on the Daily Show shooting pieces for the Daily Show, but uh, Horatio Sans was with us as well. And I guess the only thing they could get their hands on was a movie called Boat Trip, which might be routinely viewed as not the best film, but every serviceman that we met

had, gotten, it, from, like, the, like, the store. Everyone knew Boat Trip. I I I was signing boat trip DVDs on that door.

Whatever, they, give, you,, whatever, they give you, you are it is the like your worst book is the best book when you're in the desert. Yes.

So, you're, just, everything, is, it's, great. Like I remember they had Al Roker's book in the in the thing and I texted him and I was like, "Dude, they got your book here." And he's like "Oh my gosh, I got that book nowhere." You know, but they got it there and he was like the star. Um but yeah, so so I'm there and I and that's where I found out about Dover and I I didn't know what Dover was, but you've seen it. It's where all the the those flag covered coffins when a soldier dies it comes off the thing and everyone salutes. But what I figured out and what I realized is do is where all our fallen soldiers go, but it's also where all our astronauts go.

Like when the space shuttle exploded it's where all of the 911 victims from the Pentagon went there. It's also where all of our spies, our 007s around the globe, when they go on a mission and die, their bodies go to Dover, which means Dover is a place that's filled with secrets. And I love secrets. So I'm like, so I went in there and my main character works out of Dover. And it's just, you know, the the morticians there will rebuild someone's jaw and smooth it over with clay for 12 hours cuz some mother wants to see her son in the coffin one last time. Rebuild someone's hand because a mother says, "I want to hold my son's hand one last time." I'm like, "So, good luck making a joke at the end of this, you know, description but like it's just like the best of the best of us working on the best of the best of us." And and you go there and you're just humbled. And I was like,

I, need, to, set, thrillers, in, this, world because the morticians here had they know the real name of that fake person they just brought into Dover. They know the person that whose identity they're hiding. Like I talked to a guy there who was, like, on, 911., He, all, of a, sudden, all these bodies are coming in. He's putting literally putting Humpty Dumpty together, putting pieces of people trying to figure out who's who. And the FBI comes in and they surround this one body he's working on. He has no idea what's going. He's like, "Why are you so interested in this one body?" And he's like,

"This, is, the, guy, flying, the, plane.", And that's who he realizes he's working on. So these guys have the firsthand view

to, see, things, like, nothing, else., And, I'm a forever a Quincy fan. So Quincy to me is like this is just a cooler version. I mean, that is I mean, you couldn't have just said a more Gen X statement that you are a huge

Have, you, looked, at, the, three, of, us lately? Like two bald men and like the beard. I mean, of course.

Oh, my, god., Quincy. Quincy, was, I, mean,, Quincy, was, a, staple in my house. And it was

Quincy, was, like, CSI, before, CSI,, right? Of, course., Quincy, was, Quincy, used, to, be like the word Xerox. You would just be like, "What are you, Quincy?" Like and I I remember like 10 books ago making like a Quincy joke in a book like shut up Quincy or something and all these Gen Xers like of course were like going on my Instagram going be like represent baby keep it alive Meltzer like it was just like the cult was alive and well.

I, what, I, loved, about, Quincy, too, was, I was so familiar with uh Jack Clugman from uh the odd couple right and it was like oh actors can do different things. cuz I think that was like my first realization like he's totally different. He's not

100%, 100%., I'm, like, that, guy, is, two people officially and one is serious and one is funny and I you know it was mind-blowing.

I, can't, believe, that, we, have, not, done, a Quincy remake. I mean I guess you're right Jason CI.

I, the, way, I, have, pitched, it, not, only, I 100% I pitch like every Gen X show over again. Like I just and I don't even tell them because if they're younger than me they don't know. And if they're old like unless they're perfectly our age right?, Most, of them, don't,, you, know,, how Hollywood is. They don't even know. They don't care.

In, a, world, in, a, world, in, which, we, can have an equalizer movie franchise and TV show, how can why wouldn't we have a Quinzy a Quincy uh uh uh show?

Well,, someone, just, wrote, me, when, we announced our book tour, someone wrote to me and said, "Have you are you familiar with the show Quincy?" I'm like, "I've based my life on it." Like that's not even a simple question to me. Well, I mean, how do you get access here? Because I was thinking about this too. Like, you've been writing for a very long time, and you know, I talked to you about the biggest fan that I've ever made uh for you, I believe, is I was reading your book. My dad was visiting out of town. He read it and now my dad is like texting me like, "You get this one? You get my dad like devour text me. I love that."

Yeah., And, and, and, like, I, just, was, home for Thanksgiving. He's like "You got to read this one now." And I was like "Great." And like so, but it's like you I think you cross this line of, you know, you're incredibly appealing on all these levels, right? You you can get the people who love comics. You can get the people who love, you know, real history and you have this like amazing voice and uh characterization to write, you know dramatic thrillers, but you also get real information and you go deep. How do you get the trust of these people or get into these spots because no one else is getting there, right? I mean, like

Yeah., Like, how, do, you, have, that, fixer, in your phone? Like where do you Yeah., I, mean, the, truth, is, is, I, think sometimes it's just no one's as nerdy as I am to ask for these things like right like most people are like take me to the front lines and show me how you kicking doors and I'm like can you show me the Quincy version of yourself? Like so that's part of it. But the other thing is is

some, of, it, is, is, just, being, nice,, right? If someone calls you up and says hey and you know you've done it for roles like hey I'm doing a medical show. Can I just follow you around for like half a day? Like right

99%, of, people, say, yes., the, the, the benefit I had is some of the books became popular in DC and so like I got a letter one day from from President George HW Bush. I got a letter from Bill Clinton and they were like we read your books and I'm like uh oh and then I was like oh [ __ ] And and of course I thought it was fake. I thought the letter was fake cuz when I used to work in I I was an intern. My first internship ever was in the um the Senate Judiciary Committee and we used to take the pen signing machines and I would take the Senate Judiciary stationary and I'd sign the senator's letter and I write to my friends and tell them they were being deported, you know, like cuz I'm like what am I going to do? Like so I just thought this is someone playing the joke of me. So I call the office and I'm like hey man um I got a there's someone there in the president's office and it said because it said can

you send us a signed book? And I'm like "Someone wants to sign book." They go "Oh, you got the president's letter."

Like,, "Oh,, this, is, real." And, so, I, was, like,, "Not, stupid.", I, said, I, wrote, them, back, and, said,, "Hey,, uh,, I want to do research on presidents. Can I come see what your life is like?" And they had left the White House. So I'm like "Can I come see you after the White House?" And both of them said yes cuz what are they doing? I'm like "How bored are you that your life is so boring now that you're writing to me?"

Um,, and, that, helped, like, cuz, once, you have that, then the Secret Service is like, "Oh, if the president trusts you then I'll talk to you."

Yeah., And, then, if, the, Secret, Service talks to you now that you know you can get the CIA and the FB like and so it's just like these people know each other and that it just starts from people just being genuinely nice.

Can, you, tell, us, something, interesting about like the witness protection program, because, I, think that, that, is something that you know we understand it in a grand scheme of things right we'll see it in a movie like one battle after another or we'll see it in these things but like

which, was, such, a, good, movie., I, just, saw it by the way last year. Loved, it., It's, so, good., I, I, got, to, see it in Vista Vision out here which was really fun and but I mean it seems so kind of made up I guess in my mind I always thought mobsters that's where mobsters go but it's hard how do you fit in in that world?

It's, the, college, tour, episode, of Sopranos. Soprano, the, Sopranos, episode, that college tour episode is what I I firmly believe is what has informed the witness protection program for the last decade. Right. And I became obsessed with it because we're all obsessed with exactly that because you can't help but ask the question what if it was me. And we all have this like weird fantasy in the back of our heads, even if you love your life, to be like

could, I, start, it, all, over, from, nothing? Like, what does that mean? There's like something sexy and tanalyzing. So, I became obsessed with it. I will tell you, I've done the White House, the Supreme Court, I've done the secret tunnels below the capital.

I, haven't, I've, done, the, tunnels, below Disney World. I don't think anything except for Disney, which was hard to get into. The witness practicing program was one, of the, hardest, places, ever, to research

because, people's, lives, are, on, the, line, right? It's not just like, oh, I want to go and screw around the White House.

Yes,, the, witness, protection, program, is created for mobsters, right? We got to we got to get mobsters to turn on themselves, protect them so we can go. And I'm like, great. I know that. I've seen the Tony Soprano episode. But then eventually, guess what happened? They arrested most of the mobsters. So now it's not like crime was done and like Batman wins. Guess what happens?

New, criminals, are, like,, I, want, that turf. So guess who started becoming the number one person in the witness protection program?

It, was, gang, members., They, started putting gang members away. So all these gang members were now on the witness protection program. And then guess what happened? Those started shutting down. Like they weren't, you know, they weren't the same. Now, the number one group according to my source was in the witness protection program

are, accountants because, that's, the, frigin, world, we, live in now. And, I, was, just, like, I, am, writing, about that. Like this is awesome to me. Like and just that idea that you can you know cuz I'm I'm like can you really change someone's face by giving them a nose job? No, you cannot. Like anyone with like when we were kids we were like oh obviously that's like quick sand. It totally works. But the witness protection room is awesome and these guys are really good at what they do. The problem is all the people that are in it miss something about their lives,

right? And, if, you, miss, one, thing, about, your life, same thing as in One Battle after another, like you can't you can't hide away. Like that that calling eventually gets to you. And that's what that's what [ __ ] everybody up. It's not the program. It's the person in there just says, "I I need to see blank, right? maybe an old girlfriend or old wife or someone wants to have sex with someone but someone's got you that's what screws up

and, you, those, tethers, those, tethers, that keep you connected to your old life those you you know and that's the thing is like cuz in our lifetime I'm thinking of people like uh Henry Hill or Whitey Bulier or those kind of people did wait was Whitey Bulier in witness protection or was he just hiding? Can I tell you? I've never told this before. Whitey Bulier at one point I got a tip that someone told me they knew where Whitey Bulier was and I couldn't tell anyone and I'm like and I'm literally like am I what am I supposed to do with this? And and I will tell you in the end it was totally wrong and it was completely not but it was a really good source in a really good spot and I was like

but, yeah, he, was, he, he, wasn't, in, witness production. He just ran by himself.

Yeah. He, was, he, was, good. Yeah., Oh, boy, was, he, good., But, that's like what I was going to say is like the mo like the world used to be so much bigger and more you could disappear into it and so much of the world now is online on camera. We are living in a world which it would be very difficult I feel like to disappear because everybody is existing constantly publicly. You know

that, that's, ex, well, now, I'm, not, going, to ruin the plot of the Viper but that's a key part of it right like witness protection back in the old days was just give someone a new driver's license and someone moved new to your neighborhood and you wouldn't know much about them but as the world changes anytime someone moves to your neighborhood guess what we all do we Google them. we check them out and if and if there's nothing there

then, we're, like, oh, that's, even, more suspicious. So that you know they have to now figure out how to and they've gotten really good at giving you long historical backgrounds cuz if you if there is nothing from back then you're like something's wrong but we are all of us can you know go on Zillow and know what our neighbors paid for their house and what they bought and where they drive and how much they pay for their car and what their wife makes and we got it all. So, good luck hiding in today's world, and, and, the, Viper,, one, of the, key parts of it is how do you do it really well? How do you how do you disappear from the government today?

Yeah,, I, mean, this, I, I, love, this., Uh, but I guess the question that I want to ask though is you know there's been a lot of interesting stuff going on in the comic book world. We've been talking about this for a while. Are you working on anything uh in the DC world right now?

Uh, kind, of., Yes. Kind, of., All, right. Kind, of., Yes., All, right. But, but, also, I, feel, like, But, also, I, feel like you're inside of the Marvel ecosystem as well.

So, that's, I, can, say, I, can, I, am, I, am working on a new Marvel project. Okay., Great.

Okay., Okay., Interesting., All right. But, I, can't, I, can, tease, that. You, can, tease, that., Can, you, tease, what it is? Thip. THIP.

WOW., So, subtle., Um I, can't, or, maybe, snicked., Or, maybe snicked. Snicked. But

go, all, the, special, effect., Yeah., Do, all the Do all the sounds. Yeah. No, I mean I I I'll say yes to one of those. Yes to one of those.

Yes, one, of, those., I, like, this., I, like All right., This, is, exciting. I, just, want, to, By, the, way,, I, want, to just live the rest of my life with people who understand that if I do snicked or I do BAM or I do what I was going to say just like can can like how far we can take understanding and having a conversation with nothing but the sound effects.

I, mean, h, it's, what, a, what, a, world, to live because, that's, how, I, just, find, my friends. Like, you know, it's like going out and being like, I said to my son I'm like, if you find someone, and this is, you know, who knows a couple of Legion of Superhero Home Planets they're just going to be your friend.

Like,, that's, just, you, could, just, find them. And so, that like we should just have like little quizzes. I would just move through life with that and be very happy.

Uh,, I, love, this,, Brad., Well,, I'm, very excited. We'll be watching anxiously to see what this will be. Um, all right. You can get Viper wherever you get your books.

Wait,, but, I, got, But, I, can't, wait, before I go. I got to know what you read. I want to know what comics you're reading. What are you reading?

Oh, my, gosh., You, know,, this, is, great. This is a good uh question right here. I have been uh very act I've been loving this the mashups, right? Like the like you know the Deadpool and Batman has been fun. Like I've been

I, read, them, I, just, read, them, this, week. There was some I thought Kevin's uh Smith's I there was Did you read that story?

I, I, haven't, read, that, one., Yeah,, it's, on my desk. And, uh, did, you, read, Tom, Taylor's?, That one was great, too.

Yes., Love, Tom, Taylor., I, also, loved, the mashups that were happening previous which was Godzilla versus everybody.

Oh,, really? There, was, a, bunch, of, good, Godzilla versus each of the Marvel teams. Each It was a very

I, read, a, Predator, Marvel, one,, too,, which is like just Yeah. Which is great.

I'm, really, enjoying, Fractions, New, Batman run with Jorge Jimenez. I, love, Jimenez., I, love, the, way, he, does the um like like how he dials into stuff on the utility belt. Like that's inspire. That's one of those ideas like I always think the best continuity things are the things that you go

it's, new, but, it, should, have, always, been there and I look at that I'm like that should have always been there. That's

well, that's, like, the, reveal, that, um, in um Absolute Batman that the bat symbol is an axe.

That, he, takes, the, bat, symbol, off, of, his chest and it's an axe is incredible.

By, the, way,, do, you, know, how, many, nerds just got hard on that page when it happened? It was just like I how many friends have told me like did you see when he took the I'm like I know like that book is so good. They were killing that book.

I'm, also, reading, I, will, say, there's, been I think a bunch of great stuff. Um uh wait what was I

Ghost, Machine?, Come, on., Ghost, Machine. Have you guys been reading stuff? Ghost, Machine., Great.

Ghost, Machine, is, is, so, I, have a, good, and I'm not saying it just because I'm part of Ghost Machine and I do have a book coming out with Jeff John's next uh that'll be out later this year. Um, but their stuff, Red Code is so good and and Gary Frank's art obviously is so so good. Um, I love I mean all the books I'm gonna start naming and feeling like I'm bad. I'm leaving people out, but every Ghost Machine book you should read, too. They're

great., I, love, it. I, love, it., I, was, thinking, that, there's, a great just time for I mean I'm going back to Batman for a second. I've also been a big fan of what Scott Snyder has been doing and they have like Absolute Joker I think is coming up right now or something like that. Like it's

I've, really, loved, just, because, one, of, my favorite artists is uh Somni. So, the Batman and Robin, uh, Mark Wade, Chris Omni book. I think

if, you, went, to, my, kitchen, right, now, it's on my island cuz I want my son, I'm like, "This art I, you know, I said to Wade when I saw him, I'm like, this art is so beautiful." Like, when he does that Robin, that young Robin, it's so I'm like, it is breath of fresh air. It is. Exactly. It reminds me of Michael Turner. When I first saw Turner, it just it had movement without moving. And I was like, how is he doing this?

Incredible. Every, flip,, everything., It's, just, so good. I, can't, recommend, uh, his, book, that, he did with his wife uh the All Ages book called Janna and the Impossible Monsters.

Yeah,, that's, a, good, book. And, that's, another, character, whose movement is so beautifully drawn in that book. Um incredible.

You, know,, I've, been, really, just, trying to get my kids into stuff. So, we've I've been trying to read with them a little bit right now and just trying to find what they are connecting to, which is interesting because like I have been having a harder time than I thought I was going to have with my kids.

How, old, are, they? They, are, 9, and, 11., They, have, just, gotten in majorly into Marvel. And so, I'm like, I'm trying.

Can, I, I, have, one., I, have, one., Um,, just because it's Chris Omni, I'm going to shout out Thor, the Mighty Avenger.

Well,, yeah., That's, great., Have, they, read Hyo? Wait, have they read Hilo by Jud Winnick?

No., These, are, good. Give, them, Ho., Give, them, Hyo, for, sure., At 9 years old, that's a gimme. They're going to love Hyo. Hyo is a no-brainer.

Not, Marvel,, but, Bone, is, a, great Bone, was, good., Um,, I, will, again,, I'm sure they're rating Dog Man. Like that stuff.

No,, Dogman., I, mean,, Dog, Man, is, like nonstop. That Dogman, and, and, uh, and, Captain Underpants. Like Pokey. Dave is one of my dearest friends. Oh, Milky is like a big We just got like the boy underpants boy. It's not even Captain Underpants. Like it's a boy in an underpants. Yeah. Like and Dave is a dear friend of mine. He's come to my house cuz And my like he's literally my son

is, like, loves, Dave, Pilkin, is, like, Dave Pilky is the greatest writer of all time. And I'm like, you know, I'm a writer, right? Like what I do for but he's but for that age that's the perfect jump on point.

Yeah., Because, this, is, that's, what, they are devouring. And so I'm just trying to like let them find their little things. And

oh,, I, got, one, more. Oh, yeah,, please. Uh,, Batman, Brave, and, Bold., That's, what my son read when he was younger. He couldn't read like like now that he's like when you once you hit 13, as far as I'm concerned, you you're ready for anything cuz you and I we all three of us read at 13. It was like whether it was Dark Knight or Teen Titans or like we were all reading it. But at 9 years old,

my, son, read, the, Batman, Brave, and, Bold series. Um, and just put them in. you'll but it's beautiful and it's a fun book and there's like team ups like a Scooby-Doo team up. He loved the teamups.

He, love, it, wasn't, just, the, rainbow., It was it was like the Scooby-Doo teamups with Batman and they he loved them.

All right,, this, is, good., This, is, this, is what I'm I'm doing. We are making our plans to go see uh Avatar to just watch the trailer for the Avengers. Like that's why we're going to see Avatar 3 a movie we have not seen one or two of. I mean I have, they have not. And they're like they just want to see this trailer which I'm also I'm thrilled that they're, into, it., Most, nine, year olds, now are like, you know, my kids love all those movies and we'll go to them. But nineyear-olds now are like, I'm not watching the new ones cuz I got to watch these other 25 ones.

I, know., Well,, this, is, Yeah., So,, it's been interesting. I've I've been I've been enjoying watching them get into it. They met John Cena in costume as the Peacemaker, which truly was.

By, the, way,, what, a, set, to, take, him, to Oh, you took him to Comic-Con. You saw

I, was, at, Comic-Con, and, he, just, was wearing the costume and man oh man, it was the best thing.

Yeah., You, can't, I, mean, that's, yeah, you can't compare like you win you win that like I of course took my children who are older to meet Eric from the boys and so like so you know Eric is a dear friend of mine as a show and so he I told him like listen man you got to impress my kids my boys you know they watch the show they love it so on last scenes of the boys

in, Huie's, mom, in, one, of, the, scenes, is like she's literally reading one of my books and I just sat there

and, I, just, sat, there, like, this, I, knew, it was coming he told me it was coming and I was like it's It's amazing how much [ __ ] as dads we will pull off to impress our kids. Like I don't care about anything. I never took my kids you know, to the White House or anything like that you can pull off.

But, I, pull, and, I, just, sat, there, trying to be cool and my kids both turned to me and I and I was like, "Okay, how's that Dave Pilky? How's that?"

Oh,, I, love, it., Um,, all right., This, is great. Brad Viper is out now. And I'm sure by the time this is out, it's going to be another bestseller. This is what you do. You You just You just rack them up. Well, Paul, I'm looking at my calendar right now and it's telling me that the book is already out and is already a huge bestseller.

This, is, that's, what, I'm, saying., This, was great. I'm excited about The Secret Project. And uh always great to talk to you. We'll talk to you soon.

You, got, it,, brother. Thank, you,, Brad., Oh,, I, love, him., He's the best. And if you want to buy his brand new book, The Viper, just click on the link in the show notes to this episode. Now, it is almost the end of the show, which means it is finally time to announce our next movie. Next week we will be saying goodbye to Monkey Bone and returning to No Place Like Home. That's right. We are watching 1985's Return to Oz. This was Disney's sort of sequel to The Wizard of Oz that was based on the book, not the original movie. So, yeah, a tricky sequel indeed.

It stars Fuzz Balk as Darthy in her feature film debut. An IMDb describes the plot as Darthothy saved from a psychiatric experiment by a mysterious girl is somehow called back to Oz when a vain witch and the gnome king destroy everything that makes the magical land beautiful. Yikes. Rotten Tomatoes gives this film a 59% score on the tomato meter. And Joel Baltake from the Philadelphia Daily News wrote, "Return to Oz is very much a great film, an adventure ahead of its time. I doubt it will be appreciated now. It's the kind of movie whose greatness will be discovered in 10 years." Well, guess what, Joel? You're wrong. Listen to the trailer. Now, fly away with Darthy and her wonderful new friends, the Gump.

Half moose, half flying sofa. A talking chicken. Where, are, we, anyway? Jack, and, Tik, Tok, the, mechanical, soldier to save the kingdom of Oz from the evil princess. And a king with a body of rock in a magical new movie. Return to Oz. You can stream Return to Odds on Disney Plus, or you can rent it on Apple TV, Amazon Prime Video, or Fandango at Home. And as you know, I am always going to shout out the digital media services offered to you by your local public library like Hoopla Canopy and Libby. Even though Return to Oz is not on these services, they are still great resources to find movies, TV music, audiobooks, ebooks, and comics for free. That is it for Last Looks. If you listen to us on Apple Podcast Spotify, uh rate and review us. It makes a difference. Leave a comment for us.

And if you're following us, um make sure you have automatic downloads turned on. It helps the show and we appreciate us. You can visit us on social media at HDTGM. And a big thank you to our producer Scott Sonni Molly Reynolds, our engineer Casey Halford, our social media manager Zoe Apple Bomb, and of course we will forever be grateful to the one and only Averil Halley. If you have not seen it yet, there's a beautiful write up um of her, a beautiful celebration of her life. We posted it in the Discord. We also have it on the How Did This Get Made uh Instagram page. Uh we will see you next week when we travel down the decaying remains of the yellow brick road as we return to Oz.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Last Looks: Monkeybone w/ Brad Meltzer"?

Paul Scheer (Host), Scott Aukerman (Guest), Brad Meltzer (Guest), Jason (last name not provided in transcript) (Host).

What is "Last Looks: Monkeybone w/ Brad Meltzer" about?

A quick dive into Monkeybone, exploring the film’s baffling premise, Brendan Fraser’s off-kilter coma-downtown setting, and the cultish, mixed reception it provoked, including reflections on its ambiguous tone and potential alternative titles. It also notes the chaotic production ideas and fan reinterpretations that surround the movie.

What is mentioned in this How Did This Get Made? episode?

33 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Monkey Bone, How Did This Get Made, Brad Meltzer, Paul Sheer, Return to Oz, Brendan Fraser. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Last Looks: Monkeybone w/ Brad Meltzer"?

The episode runs 52 min; the transcript is about 10,469 words in 147 timestamped sections.

More from How Did This Get Made?

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated October 29, 2026.