Transcript

This is How Successful Entrepreneurs Handle Endless Rejections | Jamie Kern Lima

From Jamie Kern Lima · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 28 min · 17,672 words · 185 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "This is How Successful Entrepreneurs Handle Endless Rejections | Jamie Kern Lima", an episode of Jamie Kern Lima published November 19, 2025 (1 h 28 min, about 17,672 words). It mentions 16 people, works and ideas, including Rejection, Worthy, Believe It, Service, Beauty Industry.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Rejection, Beauty Industry, Believe It
  2. – 20:00: Rejection, Alan Burke, Believe It
  3. – 30:00: Rejection, Alan Burke, Department Store, Nebraska
  4. – 40:00: Service, Beauty Industry, Department Store, Fulfillment
  5. – 1:00:00: Worthy, Fulfillment, Service, Believe It
  6. – 1:10:00: Rejection, Worthy, Service, Worthybook.com/ed
  7. – 1:20:00: Believe It
  8. – 1:27:44: Rejection, Beauty Industry, Growth Day

Notable quotes from "This is How Successful Entrepreneurs Handle Endless Rejections | Jamie Kern Lima"

  • Is goes away. I really believe that's where you're defined. And I'm so curious about this journey with the rejection. I have a philosophy. I don't know if you agree with this.…
    about Rejection · at
  • So, we had heard no from them for a couple years. And even Ed, I got their head guy and named Alan Burke who' built this billion-dollar division in QVC of beauty and he's a…
    about Alan Burke · at
  • Into it and they're We want you to win. So, I was in this moment where I flew out to QVC in Pennsylvania a week early before this one shot on live TV to either, hit their sales…
    about Pennsylvania · at
  • For some reason, I don't know why, I kept imagining this single mom in Nebraska who was like folding laundry and way too busy to remember that she mattered and that she's…
    about Nebraska · at
  • Demonstration on my wrist I was going to do that shows how our product doesn't crease and the top two department store ones do. And I get to the live studio. I walk in, we have…
    about Department Store · at
  • At Denny's and just feeling like I have these big dreams, but not quite knowing like how do I believe I'm worthy of them yet. And it was this big season in my life. at the same…
    about Worthy · at
  • The neighbor down the street, whatever it is, you feel in your gut a sense of fulfillment, like a sense of alignment when you're doing something in your purpose.
    about Fulfillment · at
  • Route. busing tables. And I think when you work in retail or you work in a service job, and you feel at times invisible, you start to realize how important it is to treat everybody with respect and kindness.
    about Service · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Books & papers

  • Worthy — Book · 7 mentions · first at
  • Believe It — Book · 6 mentions · first at
    Have a philosophy. I don't know if you agree with this. I love the title of your book, Believe It, because what you're talking about turning up this volume on your inner voice and turning down the external rejections.

Companies & orgs

  • WME — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • Growth Day — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Hear them share those things, which is why I love that we're, all coming together in community for Growth Day morning show.

Concepts & topics

  • Rejection — Concept · 17 mentions · first at
  • Service — Concept · 5 mentions · first at
  • Beauty Industry — Concept · 4 mentions · first at
    It was the every man when it comes to men. With women, these unrealistic images, especially in the beauty industry, for the most part, are the images that we see. And so you…
  • Fulfillment — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
  • Department Store — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
  • Self-help — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    She really did it. Do you know how rare it is in the business entrepreneur self-help space that it's not someone theorizing about things they think would probably work but they've never applied?
  • Impact Theory University — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • Pennsylvania — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Nebraska — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Seattle — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Let's go back to that moment because I think you were 28 years old, right? when you're sitting on television in Seattle.

Sponsors

Full transcript with timestamps

you uh there's so much there and I want you to keep going. Couple things I want to unpack there. Number one is this unrealistic image for women. It's really interesting.

Um you know, with men it really isn't that way. If you look at football, Tom Brady has a few ads. He's the good-looking dude, right? He'll he's got a watch out or whatever, but the guy that got all the ads was Pton Manning. It was the every man when it comes to men. With women, these unrealistic images, especially in the beauty industry, for the most part, are the images that we see. And so you really did revolutionize an industry. That's number one. Number two, it's interesting to me that your dream was to be a broadcaster. I got to tell you, we both bagged groceries at Safeways and I was a broadcasting major in college and that was my dream. I didn't know it was going to show up 30 years later, you know, after my entrepreneurial journey. But I think life starts after your first dream is goes away. I really believe that's where you're defined. And I'm so curious about this journey with the rejection. I

have a philosophy. I don't know if you agree with this. I love the title of your book, Believe It, because what you're talking about turning up this volume on your inner voice and turning down the external rejections.

Those rejections you got were over and over again. I actually I was telling my son this who thinks he wants to be an entrepreneur. He said, "Dad, what's one of the things that most people wouldn't tell you?" I said, "I don't know that maybe the most important thing is your ability to deal with rejection as an entrepreneur. We talk about vision. We talk about, you know, communication, but can you deal with the rejection?" And in your case, it broke my heart, but there was one meeting you had where you thought you had a deal finally, right, with this VC guy. And I want you guys just to feel the the the depth of the rejection that you may experience as an entrepreneur. And could you do what Jamie did and still push back? So, picture years and years of rejection.

You're running out of cash. You're working out of your living room. Everyone's telling you no, and then this dude almost says yes, but then really hits you with a hard no. Tell them about that.

Yeah. And I thought literally he was going to be my saving grace, right? Because again we were down to no money and we got um interest from from a private equity company and they loved our product. So our product worked like it really worked. So they love the product um and they wanted to have meetings. So we started going down that path and you know they were really big. I mean they are really big. They they've invested in a ton of consumer product companies that you and I buy at the grocery store and you know they made a lot of them household names from nothing. And I just thought, "Oh my gosh, if they if they invest, A, I'm not going to go bankrupt. B, um, maybe they'll help get me into all these retail stores that keep telling me no and keep telling me I'm not the right fit and all that." And so, you know, we did meeting after meeting and we started the diligence phase, which is, you know,

where you show all your projections, your product pipeline, everything. And it got down to the last meeting. And, uh, my husband Paulo and I flew up for it. And I thought like, this is it. Like, this is going to be it. And uh I'll never forget the head guy was about was standing about three feet from me and uh he thanked me. He said you know that we should be proud of the product we created. Uh and then he says to me uh and he's about 3 feet from me face to face and he says uh so I want to let you know it's a no and we're going to pass on investing in It Cosmetics. And I said okay like I'm used to hearing no at this point, right? And I'm like all right well you know can you tell me why?

because usually feedback is a gift usually. And um I'm like, "Can you tell me why?" And he's like, "Do you want me to be really honest?" And I said, "Yeah." And I'll never forget like I remember just like him looking at me for a minute and I remember feeling my heart racing really fast and then I remember seeing his like his lips move in slow motion and he basically said, "I just" he did say straight straight to my face, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you." um with your body and your weight.

[clears throat] Wow. And I remember it was this moment where for me it was almost like this lifetime of body doubt and self-doubt kind of like flooded my body and almost felt like um like I was staring my own fear straight in the eye listening to him and I like I a I knew I had to keep my faith bigger than it. Uh but Ed, in that moment like it's wild. I actually yeah hurt like I literally went in my car in the parking lot and cried my eyes out. Those things [clears throat] hurt.

But what stands out to me in that moment and and I actually never felt I didn't get mad at him. I still am not mad at him because guess what? the whole reason that whole why beneath the why on why I was doing this this company like he literally passed on investing in my company because he had the exact same uh mindset right right that everyone else does about what you have to look like the box you have to fit into to be successful and and he's just as much a a a I don't want to say victim byproduct maybe of the whole beauty industry too he's passing on an investment in my company because of my weight and and I remember this moment. But the thing that sticks out to me most is in this moment I had this feeling, this deep this deep feeling like as he's telling me this um that he's wrong. And I had that feeling,

but I knew nothing yet that I had done prove that because I had no sales yet really. And I also knew like proving it would would first of foremost hinge on me believing it. uh uh for myself and you know fast forward and by the way in the years after that like it's discipline of recognizing when when when someone else's voice is playing in your head all of a sudden and I listened to a show you did actually where where you scratch like you scratch it and right and and that's what I have to do over and over like I'd have to literally get really good at turning down the volume on those things because oh and I want to tell you a full circle moment that happen. That's so good. Um, but like that's I feel like that what you what you just shared about telling your son this advice, right?

I feel like that's everything because I feel like so many people what ends up happening is everyone else's rejections, right, end up like equating to self-doubt in our own head, our own self-doubt about our self. we start to turn the volume up on that to the point where with all of it with our wi with with everyone else's opinions and in my case the lack of success around me it can get so loud that we can't even hear our own internal knowing anymore and I feel like so many people uh uh and then you have your friends and your family like they mean the best but they're seeing you through their own line their own lens of fear and inexperience right and and so between all of it so many people I feel end up literally talking themselves out of their own calling and talking themselves out of their own truth and staying in their comfort zone at like the cost of it chipping away at their soul. We've all done this. Um, and

literally missing out on the person they're born to be. And I feel like that's and my story is like years and years and years of rejection. When when I look back at the things I did wrong and the things I did right, usually like my biggest mistakes came down to when I actually didn't listen to something I knew in my gut and I I decided to go with something an expert had told me when it didn't feel like quite right. Um, and the biggest successes are are when I really listen to that knowing even when it went against what other people told me. like,

"Wow, this guy telling me this, had I changed who I was, right, and and tried to fit some mold that he said would sell the if that were going to be if that was who I was authentically, then great. But it's not for me, right?" And so had I ever conformed to him or any of those retailers that told me change this, change that and maybe we'll bring you into our store or L'Oreal that for three years of meetings said no and all the things I needed to do differently. Had I listened to most of any of that, especially the parts that didn't align with with my gut instinct, I would have never sold my company for over a billion dollars. I would have never I probably would be out of business. So, so that's

yourself when you say this, Jamie, where you're like, I would have never sold my company for a billion dollars. Still, when that comes out of your mouth, is there a part of you like, I sold my company for over a billion dollars. Does it still hit you a little bit?

On one hand, I still can't process it. On the other hand, you'll understand this when I say this,

and you won't judge me for saying this, and I believe actually everyone in your community.

Yeah. I believe they're part of your community because they'll understand this too. Um, [clears throat] selling your company for a billion dollars is exciting, but like for me, I don't feel like I'm put on this earth to compete with anyone else. I feel like I'm put on this earth to compete with who God made me capable of becoming. Amen.

And I feel like I'm just getting started. Like I'm not there yet. So, so selling a company for a billion dollars is exciting, but like I feel like stepping into all of who I am and serving and giving and all the things I'm really called to do. I still feel like I'm not there yet. By the way, you I feel like having watched you speak a couple times and then listening now, I feel like all of that happened, all of the struggle, all of the ups and downs, all of the selling of the company, all you've learned, all you've been able to articulate, your broadcast background, all of that stuff is leading you right now to your time. Like I think you were called for what you're doing now, which is teaching and inspiring people and giving them hope. However, you did say it came full circle.

What did you mean when you said that? What's the full circle? Okay, you love this. Okay. So, this is so good cuz I actually never got like I never got mad at him, right? Cuz for me it was like something bigger than him. Um, so so so fast forward a few years. Um, and when we actually ended up selling to L'Oreal, uh, you know, it was their largest US acquisition in their history. And so it made the homepage of Wall Street Journal, a bunch of stuff like that. And the day that the deal was announced, I got an email from him. Uh and and he said, you know, congratulations.

You know, I was wrong. So proud of you. That that whole thing he did. Um and also I learned that it would so two things. I learned it would have been the the most successful investment in his firm's history. But here's the thing, and this is where this is where our setbacks I feel like, oh my gosh, our setbacks, even when they suck. Like, it sucked to hear him say those words to me. It hurt. I cry. Like, it hurts, right? Rejection in almost any form. Basically says to us, you're not enough. You don't belong. You're not worth I don't think I will uh make money off you or I don't believe in you or it comes in all those forms and it and it sucks. But I really believe even almost all the time when I look back at almost all the rejections, I feel like that like again those those setbacks really are are setups. And and sometimes like sometimes rejection is is really like serendipitous grace um wrapped in this

package labeled painful rejection. And and what I mean by that is I was so desperate at the time. I think you just posted I just saw your thing where you're like scarcity is value. So yeah, I had no scarcity back then. I would have given him like any part of my company. We were down under $1,000 in our bank account. I didn't know how we were going to survive had he wanted to invest had he said yes to us that day. He I probably given the majority of the company for probably almost no money just hoping to survive. But because he didn't believe in me and because we got so much rejection along the way when we ended up selling to L'Oreal eight years into the business, um I was still the largest shareholder.

That's awesome. So, right. I love this serendipitous grace. I may steal that from you. That is beautiful. And you guys, I have to say something. It's why you want to get this book.

It's loaded with information like this. It's loaded with stories like this about believing it. Why do you need to believe it? Let's just unpack this rejection thing and then we're going to get to a magic moment. The reason that I think re your ability to deal with rejection is so important. It's not talked about enough. Let's just be honest. Do you know why 99.9% of dreams die? Everybody, you eventually get too much rejection. So if that's the thing that's going to cause you not to get your dream, 99.9% of the time it's just there becomes a threshold that you people don't take the rejection long enough. So they don't stick around to receive the grace. And so if that is true, if we already know that going in, then why not pre-negotiate in the in the very beginning what price you're willing to pay. Hopefully, it's anything as long as it's legal, ethical, and moral. So that the the the 99.9% of the reasons why

your dream won't happen, you've already set in your favor, if you've just decided you'll take the rejection. That's why it's such a big part. How do you take the rejection? You got to believe it. And that's why this book is so powerful. So we lead to this point, guys. And again, the beautiful thing about Jaime's story is it's her vulnerabilities and her authenticity that made the brand relevant all the way up to the extreme magic moment. Don't hide your insecurities. Don't hide your blemishes, guys. Figuratively and literally in your entrepreneurial journey. Get people wanting to root for you. Your fears and insecurities are what connect you with the marketplace.

Ironically, you don't have to hide them. You can work on them, but there's nothing wrong with saying, "I have them." So finally somehow you get this moment on QVC right and you are so brilliant in this moment you ask them I'll let you tell the story but to me it's like if you don't do this thing again maybe it still doesn't hit all the way to the last second the last moment it was your vulnerability that connected you with the audience. So everyone listen so closely to this woman who sold her company for a billion dollars plus.

So here we go take us to the moment. So yeah, one of the big and one of the biggest lessons in in my whole life came down to this this moment where we finally got a shot on QVC, right? And so, you know, we had heard no from them for a couple years. And even uh Ed, I got their head guy and named Alan Burke who' built this billion-dollar division in QVC of beauty and he's a legend, like an icon. After, you know, two years of nos from them, I finally got him on the phone and I thought, "Oh my gosh, if he's giving me a few seconds of his time, like this is good." like it's going to be a yes finally. And I'll never forget on the phone he says to me, you know, we've reviewed your products with with our whole buying team and it's unanimous. You're not the right fit uh for QVC or for our customers. And so instantly I go into like, oh, but I am the right fit. Let me tell you why. And I start like pour like pitching my heart

out, right? And uh he thanked me, thanked me for loving QVC and it was a no. So that was like one of the most memorable nights because I spent I don't know if you've ever had you know bad news and business or something like that and you wake up the next morning and you're like oh [ __ ] it's like you hoped it was a dream and and it wasn't right. It was like that for three days in a row. I just knew in my gut we're supposed to be on QVC and it it's so and I knew for years because I thought Ed, oh my gosh, I can go live and unlike all those ads I've seen my whole life that that I don't even know if they're real.

Like let me show real women like my mom and my friends and my like let me show real women and I believed it and yet everyone kept telling me no. And finally to get Alan Burke on the phone and here literally I'm not the right fit. When you hear those words, it sucks, right? And by the way, like anyone who's ever been told they're not enough and is tempted to believe it is why I wrote this book. Because there's a lot of people that work really, really hard and there's a lot of people that still don't quit. They keep going. But like making that decision to believe that you can and that your dream's possible for me, that's huge. And I just like made the decision to believe it. And I kept and every time I got rejected, whether it was from Alan Burke at QVC or any of the retailers for year after year after year, like I would still approach them as if it was going to be a yes and send them sales updates and send them product

launches and they're like, "Who the f is?" And I'd keep like I just made that decision. So three years into this, we finally got this yes on QVC. And what happened with this yes and this one shot is literally one of the single greatest lessons I've ever learned in life and in business. So, it it you know what this meant was we had one chance to sell our product in this 10-minute window live on QVC. And you know, for anyone unfamiliar with QVC, um who might be listening, it's it's a live television show and it's broadcast to 100 million homes.

There's no script, no teleprompter. And what I learned, Ed, right before I went on is that you're given 10 minutes in the case of the segment I got, but that's not a guarantee, right? If you go live and let's say a minute or two in you're not hitting the sales goals, your clock cuts live. So you might be a minute or two in thinking you have eight minutes left and you're not doing well. Boom, you're down to one minute. And you know, you can calculate in your head how much money you just lost and what that means. So we get one shot, we get a yes. And this is like huge, right? Because I knew I knew in my gut like this is supposed to happen. And I'm going to show real women live. I'm going to shift culture and beauty. Like, I knew it. And here's what happened. We got a purchase order. Uh, and I quickly learned, oh, we were only selling two to three orders a day on our website, right? Packing them from our living

room, just trying to survive down to no money. Well, for a 10-minute window at QVC, uh, we had to sell over 6,000 units of our concealer to hit their sales goal or not come back and their consignment in beauty. So, what it meant was if we didn't hit those numbers, if we didn't sell in that 10-minute window, everything that we didn't sell got shipped back to us and we weren't paid for it. So, and you know, you should never accept a purchase order. You can't afford to lose. But in this case, it was like we didn't know how we're going to make it either way.

So, I thought, okay, this is our one shot. This is going to like be life-changing, right? So, we hired these thirdparty consultants that are amazing and they're experts and they help a lot of people sell on television and in retail stores. And, you know, we worked with them on, okay, how do we produce our 10-minute window? And and the craziest thing happened, right? When when we know what we stand for and we think that we're going to stand for it when it comes down to everything on the line, but then someone else tells you that that's not going to work. It's really hard not to question our own values and not to question our own intuition. These experts told me um you know in order to succeed, here's what you need to do. You need to use this type of model. And it was it was the the perfect flawless skin, the models I'd always seen in TV ads. And I would say to them like, well, but that's actually

not why I created this this brand. like like and I would tell them, you know, imagine if you're 70 years old sitting at home and you see someone you can't even relate to that doesn't look like you. How do you know the product's going to work for you? Or, you know, I have rosacea or 70% of people have hyperpigmentation if they don't see someone that looks like them. and we would get into it and argue and fight and they wanted they wanted me to win like but they were literally giving me the very best advice through the lens of their own experience. And the thing the thing that I wish I knew um so that I know now but this would have saved me so many nights crying myself to sleep is sometimes even experts even even the people that are touted visionaries right and they really are and they would never admit this but they still often can't imagine in their subconscious something succeeding if they haven't seen proof that it has

before. Right? And that would have made the rejection sting a lot less because if you're doing anything authentically, anything that hasn't been done before, anything differently, people often can't even imagine it succeeding because of their own limit, right? And so all of them told me to do it and they're like, "Listen," and we would fight. We we got into it and they're like, "We want you to win." So, I was in this moment where I flew out to QVC in Pennsylvania uh a week early before this one shot on live TV to either, you know, hit their sales goals or or basically go out of business. And I went all alone and sat in this rental car um in the QVC parking lot because it literally felt so heavy.

Like I knew what my gut was telling me to do. Yeah. But in that moment, I hadn't seen any proof that it was right. No proof in the form of sales anywhere. I mean, we're doing two to three orders a day for three years in. Uh no other retailer saying yes. Everyone telling me you're not this enough or that enough. And

but those moments in life where we still have that knowing, it's so easy to doubt it and it's so easy to think we're wrong and to not trust it anymore. And I sat in this rental car praying and crying and literally asking God to take this from me because it felt so heavy. I felt like everything came down to this moment. Honestly, I was tempted to go against my own gut. I was like, "Okay, well, maybe if I listen to what they're saying, right?" Yeah. Like maybe I'll I'll do that and I'll do really well for a while, then I'll try it my way.

And I just sat in that car and it didn't feel right. And I just kept praying about it. And I would imagine like who my customer was on the other end. And for some reason, I don't know why, I kept imagining um this single mom in Nebraska who was like folding laundry and way too busy to remember that she mattered and that she's beautiful. And I just had this moment I'll never forget the rest of my life in that car, that rental car where I was like, it was just like it hit me like a ton of bricks where I was like, you know what? I would rather go on live television. I would ra if she's going to give me two seconds of her precious time and look up at her TV screen like I would rather her see me up there showing real women who look like her calling them beautiful and meaning it and have her buy nothing. I would rather do that than than sell a shitload of product and like stand for nothing.

So I knew what I had to do, but sometimes when we know what we have to do, it doesn't mean it's easy to do it. And honestly, like I was I was freaking out. I was so prepared. I had this demonstration on my wrist I was going to do that shows how our product doesn't crease and the top two department store ones do. And I get to the the live studio. I walk in, we have our 10 minutes um and I go out there on the set live with the host and I'll never forget Ed the clock was like was it 10 minutes and it's like 9:59 like [ __ ] like I'm on like this is happening right and I was trying to and I felt literally sweat all the way dripping down everywhere. I didn't want to talk about that. I was free and I'm not nervous for television, but everything was on the line and I was trying to do this demonstration. I had practiced a million times in my bathroom mirror and my hand was like this. And I was trying so hard to do it and the host

was like, "Thank you, sugar." And she pushed it under and we w I remember the moment my barefaced Yes.

bright red rosacea came up on national television, right? And I I remember walking over to these real women and calling them beautiful and meaning it. And there was about like 1 minute left in the cell um in the in the 10-minute segment. And the host was like, "The deep shade is almost sold out. The tan shade, we're down to 200." I was like, "And then I remember literally right at the 10-minute mark, the soldout sign came up diagonal like across the screen and tears like start streaming down my face." And I remember my husband Paulo, he came rushing through the double doors and I'm like sobbing and I'm like, "Real women have spoken." And he's like, "We're not going bankrupt." And I was like, and that one airing turned into five that year, 101 the next year, and then we did 250 live shows a year. So I've done over a thousand live shows myself on on QVC, and we grew the largest beauty brand in QVC's history.

And it is right now at this moment to this day. And I only share that because it was three years, right, of them saying no and you're not the right fit. And no one can tell you you're not the right fit. You know what I mean? And sometimes I feel like

we hear those, every one of us has heard that in some form or another that you're not the right fit or you're not enough. And I feel like those aren't the moments where you give up. Those are the moments like you get back up and with God and grace and grit like you keep hustling and you keep going and you keep following your knowing. Um and and and one more little thing uh to share with you just on the topic of full circle moments. Uh Alan Burke who is the head like legend after we launched on QVC, right? He's the one that said no and I was crying myself to sleep three nights in a row and he told me I'm not the right fit for QVC. all that kind of stuff. After we launched on QVC, um I end up getting to know him really well and he became not only a dear friend, but literally one of my greatest mentors in my entire career. He is right now to this day one of my greatest mentors. And you know, he's the one that built that

billion dollar beauty multi-billion dollar empire at QVC for beauty. When he retired from QVC, we hired him in a paid position on our advisory board. So Ed, the the guy that rejected me was now working for me. Like no one can tell you you're not the right fit, right? And so anyways,

you're amazing. You guys listen to me on this. I went and I got to I love you. It's one of the great stories of all time told by the person still living it. Why do you need to get the book? I'm not selling the book, guys. I'm just telling you. Why do you want to get the book? Why do you want to follow Jamie? Because she really did it. Do you know how rare it is in the business entrepreneur self-help space that it's not someone theorizing about things they think would probably work but they've never applied? She did this. So what's in this book is gold. You don't have a lot of people on earth who have done what she's done and then even fewer are like let me teach you how I did it and how I think. It's very rare and it's why today's such a gift to be doing the show with you. I have to just tell you, it's interesting cuz we've met a couple times in green rooms or backstage and different things.

And just so you know, Jamie is so kind and has so much humility and you can't find anyone anywhere who has a bad word to say about her. She's just a a beautiful spirit. And so I knew the story a little bit and then I knew you're going to be on the show. So I was prepping. I already know the work that went in and I know the result, but I went and watched the clip when you showed your rosacea, right? Yeah.

And I found myself, even though I know what happens, I was like, got butterflies in my stomach for you now, even though it's years later. I'm kind of saying quiet prayers for you. And I already know that you won. But it was just, it's such a poignant moment to go through all of that rejection. And I think you're giving so many people hope that you stuck to your guns about your beliefs as well. I want to go back in time because, you know, I've heard you on the stages that you speak around the world talk about how you started as a waitress in

Denny's and then from waitressing at Denny's pursued a dream that you had of being on television.

And as a fellow former waitress, I would love to start there. Yeah. waitress at Denny's. Um, full uniform name tag to prove it.

Oh, I forgot they had uniforms. Full uniform. Uh, what was your favorite thing on the menu?

Oh gosh, I love the pancakes. You know what? Just like simple. Um, it's so funny how our steps are ordered, I think, in life. And so often I remember being a waitress at Denny's. I remember feeling and and maybe um maybe someone uh listening to us can relate to this right now. You have this feeling inside of you like there's something more I'm supposed to do, but you don't know what it is yet. And you doubt it might be possible. And I remember being waitress at Denny's and just feeling like I have these big dreams, but not quite knowing like how do I believe I'm worthy of them yet. And um it was this big season in my life. Uh at the same time, Mel, the kitchen at the Denny's I worked at was a disaster. Like they would take an hour to get pancakes out. So I learned to talk to people so that they wouldn't leave. they often did leave um or they'd throw like a dime and a penny on the table and leave

as your tip is if it's your fault. Uhhuh. But it's so funny how, you know, years later when I ended up launching my own business, I'm like, "Oh, I've got to get the operations right or nothing else matters." You know, it's just those little things we learn along the way. Um but yeah, after after that, I I um I thought my whole life I would I would have a talk show. I watched Oprah in my living room growing up. So, I thought for sure I would share other people's stories with the world. So, I went into uh you know, did all the jobs, saved up all my money to to pay through uh pay for school and and um push grocery carts in the grocery parking lot, sliced meat in the deli, all those fun jobs. And then found myself in my what I thought was my dream job working in TV news. And I thought, "This is it, right?" And what I didn't realize was I was about to enter this huge season of setback in my life um of self-doubt. Uh I have a skin

condition called rosacea. And for me it started getting really red, really bumpy. Uh and I would be anchoring the news live thinking like, you know, okay, this is it. This is it. And I started hearing in my earpiece uh from my producer, there's something on your face. There's something on your face. You need to wipe it off. You need to And I was live on television, right? And I would glance down during the commercial break and I saw, oh, the makeup is breaking up on my face and these big red bumps are coming through. And it started this season that felt like setback. Um, but so often in life, the the seasons that feel like setbacks are actually setups for what we're called to do.

Okay, stop right there. Did you hear that? The seasons of your life that are setbacks are often setups for what you're called to do. I want to just make sure everybody heard that. And I want to take a a highlighter and also highlight something that you said about being a waitress at Denny's and it's this. You said our steps are ordered. Mhm.

So, can you explain what that means particularly to somebody who's listening? Yeah.

Who may feel like, I know I'm meant for something greater. Yes. Why the hell am I at this step and this does not feel like it is like on the path of where I'm supposed to go?

So, what do you mean by the fact that our steps are ordered? Yeah. I believe you know everything in life y

is happening for us even when it doesn't make sense. Can we just What do you mean happening for us? So to somebody that's like really in it, Jamie.

Yes. Yes. What does that mean? Let me frame it around our topic of purpose, right? So often people feel empty because they feel like, "Oh, my purpose needs to be some job. It needs to be my job or it needs to be this this grand thing I haven't figured out yet." But for those of us that have accomplished a goal we always dreamed of, we get to it and we're like, "Oh, this isn't it." Right? It's never, in my opinion, purpose is never this this big goal necessarily. Purpose is so often when we're able to serve the person we once were or serve in a way for something we've gone through. And here's what I mean. Uh, I think our purpose can be like, "Oh, wow. I went through a really freaking hard season in my life

and I now am actually realizing I'm born to be a generational cycle breaker in my family.

That is an incredible purpose, right? Purpose can be like, "Oh, I've been having a hard season for a long time." And when I actually just take a minute and say hi to someone else who's lonely, maybe it's like in the in the coffee line at Starbucks, maybe it's the the the neighbor down the street, whatever it is, you feel in your gut a sense of fulfillment, like a sense of alignment when you're doing something in your purpose.

And I think that the big mistake people make is they think it's this end goal, right? A lot of times when people uh hear my story and they hear that, oh, Denny's waitress builds billion-dollar company, they think my purpose was to be some big entrepreneur.

It wasn't. It wasn't. What was it? In the journey of how I did it. Yeah. I took this massive risk, right? Taking my makeup off on national television when I was told not to. Um, and and being brave enough to be seen and helping other women realize uh that they're worthy and enough. exactly as they are, seeing them as who they are. To me, that is my purpose. And in doing that, um, it just a byproduct of that with it cosmetics is we built a company with millions and millions and millions and millions of customers. Uh, and what's wild is 5% of our customers actually have skin issues like I do. 95% don't. It's just that they felt seen and connected with something that spoke to their soul. Right? for me being willing to say here I am exactly as I am no makeup and you know all my skin issues.

Um I think people connected with that that feeling of of oh I'm enough exactly as I am.

You know what else I think is a really important part of your story. It is waitressing.

Yeah. It's pushing carts in a supermarket. Yeah. It's working in the back house of a restaurant. That's my story, too. Helping my best friend on her paper route. Uh, busing tables. And I think when you work in retail or you work in a service job,

and you feel at times invisible, you start to realize how important it is to treat everybody with respect and kindness.

That there is no work that is beneath you. And when you can bring that level of service to the job that you have right now, even if you hate it, even if treat people treat you like garbage, even if the the the the back of the house is not getting those pancakes out on time and people are angry, if you can bring a sense of grace and service and just humility to those roles,

I think it changes how you show up when things start working out because you don't ever forget what it's like to be treated like [ __ ]

Yes. Because somebody was mad that their pancakes weren't out on time. Yes. Yes. And also, you and I have had this experience where we've truly gotten to see and be almost every type of person in every type of environment. And so now it's like whether it's me building a business or you building one of the top shows in the world, one of the top shows in the world. Um, I feel part of that was like, oh, we understand who who's listening and watching you right now. I understand who real people are who built, you know, who who bought my products and and and so when you mentioned steps are ordered, it's like, you know, no matter where you are in your life right now, what you're going through, I believe every piece of it, whether it's, oh, someone just, you know, cut me off in a parking lot and screamed at me or oh, whatever it might be you're going through, all of those things are happening for you. I believe

so that you're amassing this toolbox of understanding uh and getting strong enough and equipped enough for the purpose you step into.

Amazing. So, professor of purpose Jamie Kern Lima right there. That's your takeaway number one. The steps are ordered. Believe in that.

And this moment is helping you. It's giving you something. So, that is one major tool that you used along the way. Let's go back to that moment because I think you were 28 years old, right? when you're sitting on television in Seattle.

Yeah. You are a local news anchor. You're living the dream. You're on your way and you are now starting to have this nightmare happen.

Yes. Where your rosacea is breaking through on camera in front of everybody. The makeup that they put on you.

Yes. And you've got people in your ear telling you there's something wrong with your face.

Yes. and you're realizing, "Holy cow, the makeup that they've put on my face cannot cover the rosacea and the skin issues that I have." So, what do you do in that moment?

Well, the first thing I did was start freaking out, right? And I like literally I started entering this season of self-doubt where I would be live on the air uh anchoring the news, thinking thoughts in my head like, "Oh, am I going to get fired? Are viewers changing the channel right now? Like, am I costing the the company ratings?" Right. So, it was this

Could you feel those moments when you could feel like the makeup not kind of like disappearing? Like there were moments when I used to be a commentator for CNN. I was premenopausal where I could feel the hot flash coming.

Yeah. I didn't feel it until they set it in my ear and in my earpiece. And then what would start to happen was I would get so nervous and stressed out because they kept trying to cover it um during commercial breaks. I could feel my heartbeat in my ears. So I what I remember is [clears throat] like anchoring the news live and and you're and sometimes you have to be happy tell this happy story or or you're serious telling and I just remember my heart beating in my ears hoping people weren't turning the you know changing the channel and and it started this this thing where I you know would spend what you know it's funny I was I was um

anchoring the news and people think when you're doing that you must have all this money but you really don't get paid much at all and I I took my little paycheck that I had and started spending it on um department store makeup professional artistry, makeup, drugstore. I couldn't find anything that worked. And I had this idea one day like, "Oh, if I can't find anything that works for me, uh there's probably a whole lot of other people out there that feel like makeup doesn't work for them." And it was sort of this idea where I was like, if I could figure out how to make something that worked for me, um it'd help a whole lot of people. And that was my my knowing or this this gut feeling. But then my head, Mel, was like, "Oh, but you got no money. You got no connections. you know, no one in the beauty industry, you're unqualified. So, I sat in this place, right? And I just want to, we're talking about purpose. I

had this gut feeling like I was supposed to go for this thing, but then my head was like, "Oh, but here's all the reasons why you're not qualified to do it, plus you're in your dream job, right?" And I sat between those two. And it wasn't until I had this big big aha moment of why I needed to do it that pushed me over the edge. Okay. So, what is the aha moment?

Yes. So, so, so I realized one day I'm like, "This makes no sense. There are thousands of makeup companies out there. How does nothing work for me?" Right? Then I had this moment where I realized I've never seen a model with bright red, bumpy skin saying, you know, selling makeup and like you always see these photoshopped airbrushed

models. And I realized, Mel, like, wow, my whole life, I've actually loved those beauty commercials, and I love seeing the magazines and and I always aspired to look like them, but but deep down inside, they always made me feel like I wasn't enough.

And I had this moment. I was literally on the news set when this happened where I was like, "Wait a minute, what if it's not just about launching a makeup product?" Like, like, "What if I could actually figure out how to do it?" Which I had no idea how and I had no money, but was like, "What if I could actually launch a product that works for me? And what if I actually put real people as models? Like every age, shape, size, skin tone, skin challenge. What if I use them as models, call them beautiful, and mean it for every little kid out there who's about to start doubting themselves and and every grown woman who still does. And that deep source of pain from from from how I was feeling not enough and what could I do about it? That in my opinion is one of the strongest ways to find your purpose. It's it's what has just destroyed you or hurt you that you've maybe made it through.

Yeah. And how can you now use that making it through to help someone who's going through it?

Okay. That's like a mic drop moment from our professor of purpose Jamie Karn Lima. Again, I like to unpack these things to make sure this is a this is a I always say this is not just a listening podcast. It's a doing podcast. And I want to make sure nobody's left behind.

Yes. And there was billions of dollars worth of wisdom that you just dropped. And so I want to try to unpack it for anybody that is listening to this and you have this sense that you're made for more. Yeah.

So, one of the things that I heard is look in your life and see what problems or frustrations or things that you're struggling with that feel like a setback. And Jamie gave you the example of the rosacea on her skin and her inability to find something that actually could help her solve this issue of being able to cover it up so that she could do her dream job. And that setback is a setup for something new. And then get out of your own sort of selfish or self-loathing or the self- excuses and the self-pity and remind yourself that there are eight billion people on this planet now. There are other people that are dealing with this.

Yeah. And that if you can figure out how to put your energy into making this better for yourself and you bring other people into the fold with you, you now have something that's worth working on

because it helps you and it's going to help other people. I am obsessed with an idea that you have in the book about how um all the hard things are going to, you know, like we started with that quote, they're either going to break you or they're going to make you. And really that's up to you. And

the stories you share in the book are really they draw you in with their they are both entertaining because they're well written and well told. They're gut-wrenching at times because I can imagine what it would be like to go through that. but they act ultimately as a yellow brick road in a way that I found very enticing in your book. And one of the bricks on the yellow brick road was that your father was an alcoholic. And you said something in the book that I was really impacted by given my wife Lisa and what she's like. Um, you said, you know, my dad loved me and he was a kind and gentle man who quietly struggled with alcoholism. And the way that you described that was very generous. And you said, but there were times you would sit and stare at the clock and cuz you had to wait for him to wake up, which your mom would be off working. And so sometimes it could be hours of waiting for him to wake up. And

he would wake up or he you would get to the time where you were allowed to wake him up and then he would ask you for an hour or two. And then I just imagine you sitting there watching the clock flip until he finally gets up and you guys can hang out. And in that you said, "My dad inadvertently taught me that women are superheroes that have to be stronger than men because that's what my mom was, a superhero who's essentially doing everything by herself." And I was like, I know that it is, Jamie. I don't wish difficulties on anybody, but man, when they're looked at from the right lens, they make pretty extraordinary people.

So, that's a story you tell early in the book. The yellow brick road then leads to a photo of you and seven of your friends. So, you and six other people and you break down. Every one of you guys has overcome it. It's almost absurd the fact that out of seven, two of you were adopted. There's breast cancer. There's learning difficulty. I mean, it was crazy. And yet each and every one of them is absurdly successful. How do people harness difficulties like that to become something powerful instead of you know leaning into the the victim side which anybody would understand people pulling the victim card from that. But how do you pull something else?

The very first and most important thing on how is you have to want to. And I think that every human being can can easily go into victim mentality on a lot of things that have happened in all of our lives, right? And it's a mentality that actually can, I think, reward you in a lot of ways and also um become a justification too for for staying inside your comfort zone when it comes to things like going after your dreams. And it makes sense for a lot of people, right? And again, I think there's a time. I mean, I'm not going to speak to people that, you know, I'm not going to speak to a lot of the really hard things that require a lifetime of work to figure out. Um, what I will say is therapy is the best thing I've ever done in in really understanding this. And I actually talk about that.

Is it does it allow you to recontextualize? Is that the idea? Yeah. And to understand it at a deep level. And by the way, your show like this conversation the to me these are the things that are so important that we invest in ourselves and and do right because I mean I don't want to stay in a place where it could be easily easy to stay at in my life. I think that the quote you started out with like you know when these tough times happen you know do you warrior up or do you victim up? Do you level up or do you give up? Right. the up is up to you. And I do believe why I share the story of my seven closest friends um is because I think this is important. I think a lot of people out there are like me and maybe have loving family, loving friends. But if you were to turn the volume up on all of them and they were to be your only inner circle, um it'd be really easy for self-doubt to take over.

It'd be really easy to dim your own light. And I talk about my journey of s of how I chose my circle around me. Um and it's never based on a commonality of life experience. It's my closest friends and I think this is important for everyone listening because a lot of people are like oh you know I don't have an inner circle that empowers me. How do I find one? You know I would say impact theory and impact your university. That that alone can be a per a part of your inner circle. That's a voice and conversations and information that you want to turn the volume up on. And I talk about this because I think this is universal for everyone and so important to do this. A lot of times people build their circle of friends based on who they went to school with or, you know, things they have in common and all the stuff, right? Maybe it's a group of people from work because you're around them all the time, whatever it is. And I

think that that's not always the right thing. I think who your circle is is so important. And for me, um I I go deep on this in the book and talk about each one of their stories because I want to drive the point home that who you do surround yourself with and when you judge them by their heart and how they pour into you and champion you and don't tell you this crap you just because you want to hear it. They tell you the real truth, which is so important. Um they don't get jealous when you're flying high. They want you to fly higher. I talk about this this commonality of of traits and yet my closest group of friends have literally almost nothing in common. You know, they their backgrounds are so different. They have different faiths and no faith. They they they one of them was homeless all growing up. Then lived in the projects and then figured out how to be build her own circle and become an

entrepreneur and and she figured out how to turn down the volume of negativity and lack of dreaming of all the people around her for the most part that she was raised in. And how did she turn that volume up on her own like inner light? And I share this this common thread um really just to uh inspire a mindset shift sometimes of oh you know what my circle of friends you know each person listening right now my circle of friends they don't need to think like I do or pray like I do or love like I do or anything else. But like if I surround myself with people that are truly telling the truth, loving me authentically and uplifting and and dreaming big with me and calling me out on the BS when I start to like talk myself out of my own truth, right, which we all do, it's a lifelong journey. Talk about the power of finding people like that and surrounding yourself with them. And I think they can be people in real life.

And I also think that they can be people that you let pour into you who maybe you've never even met um like you like your show for people, you know what I mean? I think that that's really powerful. Who we let speak into our lives and who we turn the volume down on but still love anyway is so important because one of our biggest mistakes is turning the volume up on the people just because we love them and they're our family and then all of a sudden that's all all the noise we hear and it impacts our whole life.

Talk to me about the ability to turn the volume up and down. That was one of the things I found really extraordinary in your book. Like if I were going to do like a spoof of your book, it would go something like this. Somebody was really [ __ ] mean. I cried like a [ __ ] and then I walked in the next room like a warrior. Like it's that over and over and over. Like every time. Well, I mean you you actually have a whole chapter in the book about swinging your big balls, which we should definitely talk about.

But first, give me the idea. How do you turn the volume down when you said that earlier about the guy who said, "Look, people aren't going to buy makeup from somebody that looks like you. How do we grab the volume knob on something that gnarly?"

Yeah. I mean, it is such a uh disciplined practice. It's such a skill. It's hard. I mean, just yesterday I had someone do something that I thought was like a super close friend and I was just blindsided and I felt so betrayed. And listen, we all go through these things and they're hard. Um, and one of my friends many years ago, Bob Goff is his name. He taught me this and it just stuck. I just feel like it was so important to talk about it because this tool that that Boba taught me uh where he talked about your own microphone and then the volume dial and he basically I imagine right because you know that I have this microphone everyone listening right now imagine you have your own microphone and you have to get into really good practice of like who you hand your microphone to and let's speak into it and what I had to learn one example of this is, you know, my dad who was an alcoholic, who was uh a good man with a

a really bad addiction. Um, and loved me the best way he knew how with his own capacity. And I remember I was, you know, working I was always super ambitious. I wanted to get a car and go travel, all the things. So, I had four jobs in high school and you know, I got I was working uh one of my jobs is working in a um health club and I started as receptionist and then uh they said, "Well, if you sell memberships um you'll make commission on those, too." And I started selling a lot of memberships. And I was like, "This is great." And so, after high school, I didn't go to school right away. I moved out, got my own apartment. I was making like $55,000 a year, which was more than my dad at his at his job he'd been at.

And uh and I'll never forget when I made this decision I was going to go to school. I was like, "Okay." Because I just wanted to get out, meet other people, and like figure stuff out. And I remember when I told him, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to go to school. And he was mortified. He's like, "What are you doing? like do you know how much money you're making right now? I mean, he was so upset and so worried about me that I was making a huge mistake. And so I remember even in that moment, you know, we all have experiences like that in our lives with our family, right? They're seeing things through their own lens of experience.

But whether it's a story like that or it's just a friend that you love hanging out with and you go to the gym with only, but anytime you share a hope and dream, all of a sudden you feel them lower your vibration. Like you feel it, right? because they don't get it or they or they don't like it or they whatever it is. Bob Gooff taught me this that that basically you learn, oh, I'm going to take back my microphone from them on those topics, right? I'm going to talk to them about my workout today or in my dad's case, you know, what's happening on the news or whatever.

But I started learning with my own big hopes and dreams. I don't give other people my microphone who are then just gonna literally lower my vibration because of their own lens of limitation. And it's the skill you develop. And when you imagine holding your own microphone, listen, we all, you know, if you have, if you are blessed to have a family or friends that you love, it's not like, you know, you want to just ex them out of your life because they don't understand your hopes and dreams, but learning to just not share them all with them. Hold your own mic, talk to them about other things like what's on the Bachelor or like what's going on with whatever, right? And love them, but put those boundaries in place. And then the other thing is the volume dial and that's big. And you know, people have said things to us that have hurt us probably universally. There's probably not a single person out there that

hasn't had someone say something to them that hurts them deeply. And it is human nature to relive it over and over and over and over in our own head to the point where we carve a groove and it's like it starts to stick and take root. And I think it is so important mentally for me like I'd have every time that that dude who said no one will buy makeup from you and there are so many other rejections that I talk about in the book um you know when I went to Sephora and felt like I didn't belong and I didn't fit in and all those things. You know a lot of times the most hurtful words we hear are the ones we say to ourselves and the ones we make make up and telling ourselves we're not enough and all that kind of stuff. And I have to be mindful and intentional and literally imagine myself when those thoughts come up, stopping them, turning down the volume, and then turning up the volume on something else until I believe

it. How has serving people helped you? It's not in any of the things we were going to talk about, but you know, probably more than anybody you know, and certainly in your case, more than anybody I know, like we're really doing whatever this is, we're doing

Yeah. for service for you and I. Neither one of us financially have a need to do it. You I gave away all the pro proceeds from my book. You're doing the same thing.

Yeah. Um how has service to other people changed your life or created more bliss in your own life? I just want to know that because for me,

yeah, I feel the most worthy often times in my life when I'm in the service of somebody else.

Yes. You know, I actually feel worthy. I don't always feel worthy that I'm capable of doing it. But when I'm in the uh effort and attempt to serve somebody, I feel more connected with my own worth when I'm serving another person.

Yeah. So, so you know in book in the book worthy there's a whole chapter on fulfillment, right? And first of all, self-worth is the most critical piece because you can do everything right. You can have self-confidence. You can be growing. You can be contributing and serving. But if you don't have selfworth,

you're never going to feel truly fulfilled. So you have to have self-worth, which of course the book's packed with how do you build that, right? But then you also need self-confidence and you also need growth. You need to be growing, stretching like in some area of your life. And it could be simple things like growing in your faith or growing in your golf game, right? It doesn't matter what it is. You have to be growing to feel fulfilled, but you also have to be contributing, meaning doing something bigger than yourself. And uh a lot of people miss that. They think, "Oh, if I just make enough money, if I just have enough people love me on social media, if I just whatever it might be, if you are not contributing, you'll never feel that deep source of purpose and fulfillment." And two big ways on how like, well, how do I contribute? I have nothing to offer. So many people think that, right? And you and I have a a

friend Rory that always talks about how we're we're best positioned to serve the person we once were. And another way to put that is so often the pain we've gone through, the setbacks, the things that sucked, right? It's like when we're able to to to then use those and and and help other people make them make it through the things we've gotten through,

it brings a deep sense of purpose and also understanding of of of the cadence of the calling of our life and everything we've gone through.

But also, there's simple ways to give back. I mean, literally just smiling at a neighbor.

I mean, it is that simple. There are people, so many people I'm going to cry if I think about this and and talk about this, but so many of us, if you make eye contact and Ed, you're one of the best people I've ever met at this. I feel like it's why we're so we're such good friends cuz we both see this in other people. You're one of the best people I've ever met at seeing other people. Like truly seeing other people.

Let's just be real. We both know you're the best at that. We're you're you're amazing at it. And and anyone who wants to go, how do I serve? you know how you serve. Walk into the coffee shop or wherever you're at and see someone actually see somebody and just say hi or how are you or

you know I I I almost guarantee you for I'm going to cry. I almost guarantee you for so many people if you walk into anywhere any room you're in today in your life and you actually just see somebody you're probably going to be the only person that day go

that sees them. You're so brilliant. You're so brilliant. So where I started practicing this was in places like coffee shops because I didn't feel worthy to do it in like business environments.

So I actually practiced it like in grocery stores and coffee shops and I recommend everybody do it. And so let's just say you went to order your coffee in the baristas there.

Yeah. Hey, what can I get you? Welcome. And you just take a second and there's a pause. I I do this now as who I am, but at first I had to practice. And so I would let them pause and I'd go, "Hey, how are you?" And I'll just take a second. How are you today? And you look at them and you hold the glance and actually wait for them to answer you. They feel that energy. And the first few times I did it, it was awkward and I went, "Wow, I'm actually I got the [snorts] added bonus to my coffee today. I connected with this human being."

Yes. And as I'm walking out, I felt better. I know they felt better, but I felt better. Y

what I didn't know until I read your book is I actually felt a little bit more worthy.

And then when I went into business meetings, I had a little bit more of the worthy bucket filled up because I did exactly in the exact environment you go to a cashier at a grocery store. How are you today?

Like and you actually listen and say it a little slower. Hey, how are you? That's not the same thing as how are you?

Yeah. And they feel you actually want to know and you care. slowing your life down like that, you're like, "What's that got to do with business?" I don't know. Best person I know at doing that is you. You said I'm the best person you know at doing that is me. And we're two of the richest people in this entire space. So, there's some correlative property to it to business as well, right? There's got to be.

And and two things happen. You see that other person, so now all of a sudden you're in service of something bigger than yourself. But when you see that other person and they realize it, they then see you.

Yes. The moment they realize you saw them Yeah. is the moment they see you. When you actually see someone else and in that moment they realize it and then they see you,

you actually feel scene. And here's something that is is is so powerful and profound and huge when we realize we do this in our lives is so many of us and I'm talking about no matter where you're at in your career or your goals or your ambitions or the version of of success in your life that the world celebrates, right? whether it's having the kids and the whatever it is, no matter where you're at um in that like we are so tempted always to actually still live our lives hiding in plain sight.

Yes. Never actually showing who we truly are. Never actually allowing our true self to be seen. Right. Just showing up with the parts of us that that the world celebrates. And we start creating barriers of disconnection in our lives. But more than that, right, and we wonder why we're not fulfilled in relationships, but more than that is we create a barrier of disconnection with ourselves. We don't actually see ourselves. And and just to give this analogy um for everyone listening, right, for you, for me, for everyone, everyone watching us is maybe you remember the moment as like a little kid in class and think back to when you were a little kid, maybe 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, the very first moment when you knew the answer, but you decided for the first time ever not to raise your hand

because you thought, well, what if I'm wrong? What if I get made fun of? What if I no longer belong after I do that?

And that is the the for so many people, the moment that self-doubt starts to set in, the moment we become aware of these things, the moment we start to start to shrink our our self-worth and our self-confidence. And so that moment we start hiding in plain sight. And then what does that look like today as an adult? For a lot of people, it looks like, oh, you're on a Zoom meeting with your team and you have an idea.

Gosh, but you don't raise your hand. You don't share it just in case it sucks, right? It looks like, oh, you're the boss and maybe you're crushing it and you're hitting numbers every single quarter, but you actually have some novel ideas to innovate and move your company or your industry forward, but you're not going to do them because you're scared to take a risk, right? Because you're crushing it now. that is hiding in plain sight.

It looks like maybe you're the the extrovert that walks into the room and can entertain everyone else, but no one actually knows what you're really dealing with.

Yes. Right. You're hiding in plain sight. That's the most profound thing. You said that the other day. I do feel like people hide in plain sight.

Yep. By the way, ask yourself, am I doing that? Yeah. Am I playing small? Am I shrinking? Do I not raise the proverbial hand in so many moments in my life when I could step forward and take my power?

And and to add to that too, Ed, is when you ask yourself this, right? What are the ways you're hiding in plain sight in your life? And it might be in work, it might be in your romantic relationship, it might be in your friendships. Do you know how many people feel like they've got to play a part to fit into a friend group, but then then they feel lonely because those friends actually don't know them for who they truly are? There's so many ways we're hiding in plain sight so often in our lives. And the most important thing you can do is not just identify it. Um, and I take you through so many exercises on how to do this in worthy in the book coming out, which you can pre-order now and get a special live Zoom with Ed and me if you do it.

Worthybook.com/ed. That's right. And it's going to go away. So, it's just so do it now. Um, I I go deep in this because the most important thing is not just to identify in your life all the ways you're hiding in plain sight. Uh, all the the, you know, ways that self-doubt is impacting your life, but then to identify what is hiding in plain sight already cost you.

Yeah. In your life, what does it cost you in your goals and dreams? What does it cost you in the the depth of connection you have in your relationships and in your friendships, right? What does it cost you? And then when you really go through the work of going, what will it cost you

5 10 years from now if you don't change and you start really opening your eyes the the the we're we're always wired as human beings to avoid pain. And when you when you really do the work here and you understand what it's going to cost you, what it has cost you, what it will cost you, that pain will be greater than the pain of you know what, I might get rejected people. I might lose some friends. I might be embarrassed. People might not get me, but I'm not going to hide anymore. I'm I'm going to show up and I'm going to be seen. Like, not just the parts of me I think I need to be, but like the true parts of me. I am so blessed to have friends like you who sharpen me all the time. That is so so so important.

And also, you don't need to hold out for a hero to in order to go after your dreams. You don't need it. It It's an excuse. It's a lie. It is an indication of unworthiness to believe that we need somebody else before we're enough. Or or once that, you know, person shows up and and I'm married, then I'll be enough. Once once I have kids in my life, then I'll be enough. Once I get that dream mentor, then my business will take off. All of it is a lie. It's it's it's a it's a lie that leads to self-doubt. Um, and it's why I wrote this book because it's packed with truths that wake up worthiness because when you again when you you don't you don't soar to the level of of your hopes and dreams in life, you always will plateau at the level of your self-worth.

Yes. And when you get that right, it changes everything. And by the way, I'm getting so fired up. Not to like go into the personal growth world or anything, but so so what I realized is like so much of the work you hear thought leaders doing around overcoming limiting beliefs, you know, over you, you know, you might have a limiting belief that you're, you know, you'll never make a lot of money or you're too young or too old or whatever it might be. You can do all the work of overcoming those limiting beliefs, but if you do not do the work on overcoming the limiting beliefs about worthiness, it does not matter because you can accomplish everything again and and go, "Okay, I believe I'm smart enough now. I believe all the things." Those are building your self-confidence. If you don't do that innate work of building your worthiness, then you'll sabotage all the stuff that that you that you

bring into your life. Who's your biggest critic? And you can guess who they said. I'm assuming it was themselves. It was them. It was, you know, them sitting there and being like, I am my biggest critic. And I just, you just said you got a million nos.

Like, is this a I love your book. Listen, is this a woman thing? Is this a man thing? Is this a learn thing? You you obviously went through it,

but how but somehow going through with all those nos, which a lot of these women are like, if I heard that many nos, I would just quit. How the heck do you deal with all those nos and then continue to believe in it?

Yeah, I'm So, first of all, thank you for asking that question because I think when we share these nos and we share this rejection, uh again, back to what you guys do every single day helps everyone feel less alone. So, thank you for even asking that. I think this is huge because when you Google my story, you don't see that. you just see like a fairy tale Cinderella story and I realized from getting so many DMs on Instagram that you know women think like oh did you just have connections or did you just get lucky or did you and I'm like no and and a big part of the journey was handling the nose and how so um thank you for asking that. Yeah, just just to use I guess one one quick story that's an example of this that maybe um because I think everybody listening right now probably has rejection in some form and then how do you handle your own inner critic from like not taking over, right? I think when we when we when we

listen to our own inner critic and when we turn the volume up on that instead of learning how to turn it down, I think we end up literally talking ourselves out of our own truth and our own calling and our own purpose in in this life. And so I think one of our greatest journeys literally every human being and especially every woman and and doubly now that I'm a mom now that I'm a mom because I've been CEO of a billion dollar company and I've been a mom being a mom is harder.

Listen to that ladies listen to that. A billion dollar company mom is harder. Mom is harder. And and I also noticed since being a mom too, which I love that you guys talk about this a lot, but my inner critic has gotten louder and and and you know, comparison, all those things that every human being deals with, I think I think gets doubled down on us when we become a mom. And so I think learning how and and you know, I talk about this a lot and believe it. This idea of how do you turn down the volume? Like I imagine cat and I imagine this imaginary volume dial literally in my own head when I hear my inner critic come out that says Jamie you're not qualified or you're not enough or you're all these things I have to literally imagine myself turning or by the way by the way sometimes it's our partner sometimes it's our friends and family who love us sometimes it's our kiddos sometimes it's whoever they mean well

but they say something like are you sure you should quit your job and go after that or what do you know about doing that or you know all the things right and they mean well but I've learned to like literally imagine this volume dial and I turn down the volume on that and I have to and this is a daily thing by the way still to this day I have to like intentionally imagine myself turning up the volume on other words that replace those words that I know are true even when they're hard to believe like Oh, you've all you might you might have no experience in beauty, Jamie, but you you're going to figure this out. Like you've always figured it out or you're going to work hard or you're not going to let you know no stop you all those things, right? And I try to just turn down turn up the volume on those things.

And I think every single person in our daily lives needs to do this because what I think happens is we end up right so I so when I went on this three-year journey of of of hearing nos the first three years of my company and we got down to under,000 in our bank account uh which was personal and company combined. And I was like, I kept feeling in my intuition like this. I was supposed to be doing this, like I was supposed to be creating this makeup company that solved my own skin problems and also helped to to shift culture around the kind of images we see for beauty. And I just had this big dream and it kept feeling right. But sometimes like our we start to second guessess our own gut when there's no proof around us that we're right. And so for three years it was like all the nos, all the beauty experts like Sephora and all the department stores and uh QVC, they all said, "No, you're not you're not the right fit. Um

we don't want to bet on you. We don't think you'll make us money." Right? All those things. And when you have experts telling you they don't think you're going to make it, then you have, you know, there's no proof around you that you're going to make it. And then you have friends and family worried about you. At the end of the day, learning how to turn down the volume on all that, including your own self-doubt, and like hearing your own gut, for me, I've done a a million things wrong in my journey. Um, and I share all those too in the book, but like one of the things I did right was was I learned to hear my own gut and I and I made the decision to trust myself uh when it said keep going.

I'm supposed to be doing this. Um, and that changed everything. You know, I feel like a lot of people they get they, you know, they fail or they try and they fail and then they're like, "Well, I don't have it in me to to do more." They just feel so crushed crushed by failing. And, you know, I I Cat and I sometimes we joke because we were never um super successful like in school or in any of the traditional things where other people were shining. So we're like every time something doesn't work out for us, we're almost like we have great practice in failing, we're like if something really turns out well, we're like well this is new. This is very exciting. [clears throat] But when you say like you learn how to like trust your gut, I think that like that inner it's it feels like it can be such a small thing inside you. People want to tune into that and they want to hear it. It's like in their mind they

know what they have is a great idea but they need to like they don't know how to do it. feel their gut. Is there a feeling in your What's the

Yeah. Oh. Oh gosh. Okay. I'm so excited to share a thought with you really fast. I have a question for you if it's okay to ask. Do you guys think that part of like what you do now and why you're so successful everywhere? Um which I'll just say that about you because it it's true. Um

do you feel like you're not afraid to fail? And that's a big part of it. And that's a big part of,

you know, I think it's sort of our detriment, too, because we also are are shocked when we're successful. And and you know, I think that when you learn, you know, I dropped out of high school. When you learn to not be afraid or ashamed of what or who you were, you let go of all these expectations. Like so many people are afraid to say, "I can't afford it." You know, I just can't afford it. Like, you know, this is I don't have the money. Like, I can't go out for dinner because I have no money in my bank account. like all these secrets that we've been taught to keep or not share or you know I'm having a hard time with my husband right I'm not but like you know all these things where rumors no like it's very it's like you have to constantly front yourself and I think that we're gifted at our gift is being okay with our flaws

but I also think that like although they were traditional failures I think what it sort of showed us is that we don't have to follow the path where everybody else is successful like I remember when I wasn't going to be able to afford to go to um university, which is you guys call it college, but not a community college university. I couldn't afford unless I I took out loans. And I also didn't have the marks to get in. And I remember someone saying to me like, you're never going to get a job if you don't go to university. And I was like, I and I remember thinking to myself, I don't necessarily think that's true. I think I can be successful and not have to go spend all that money for the four years and maybe study something that may or may not apply to a job or something I want to do in the future. And so like the failures that look like failures to other people were sometimes just like if

they were successes in other ways, you know. Totally. And one thing you just said too that's so powerful is that when that person told you that, you didn't you already knew that they were wrong. You had that feeling like you knew, right? So you trusted yourself in that which I think is huge. And one thing before I forget, oh my gosh, then I want to share something. Uh this is so big. Um what you just said about failing I think too and just sharing too that like for all of us, right? because I'm part of your community too and and appreciate you every how you guys show up in the world so much. But for me and everyone else part of your community right now like listening to this I think this is huge because you watching your success and your impact and all the things in real time and then hearing that you're not afraid to fail, right? I think this is so big because when you look at like all

the research, it shows even even women it like so many studies show that women won't ask for a raise until they meet 100% of the qualifications or won't ask for a promotion whereas men it's 60%. Right? When they meet about 60% of the qualifications, they'll ask for a raise or they'll ask for a promotion uh or apply for a job. And for women, it's a 100%. And it's because we're from the time we're little we become sort of people pleasers, perfectionists a lot of times. Also, we're just we're scared to fail and we wait until we think we're going to have it perfect to to to go take the dream and take the big step and launch the thing. And I feel like that is such a disservice because we end up literally never stepping into the person we're born to be. We end up staying in our comfort zone, like letting it chip away at our soul. And you guys are living, breathing examples. Um, and I hope and pray I am too because I've been

trying to I've been oh my gosh, there's been so many things where I've been like, you know what, it's because I wasn't afraid to fail over and over and over and I wasn't afraid to get rejected over and over and over and over uh that this eventually happened, right? And you know, one one big thing that um uh that stands out to me is, you know, we were a couple years into our company and just hearing nos from everyone. I didn't know that one day the company would be a success, but I just kept having this feeling kind of like when you just described the person said, "Oh, you need to go to to university to make it." And you're like, "Oh, no. I don't think so."

Right. I just kept having this feeling that I was supposed to be doing it. Uh but but I didn't know how we were going to survive. And a couple years into the business, uh we got a call from a potential investor. Um and I was so excited because we were down to no money. And this investor ran this big private equity company and they invested in all of these uh consumer product companies that we all buy in the grocery store like big names that and they invested in a lot of them when they were teenytiny before anyone knew them and made them in household names. And I was freaking out because I'm like, "Oh my gosh, if they invest in our company, A, I'm not going to go bankrupt. B, maybe they can use their leverage to get us into these stores that are that are telling me no." I was so excited and we started the meetings and uh meeting after meeting and we got to the diligence phase which is where we show

them you know product future product launches and projections and all that and it came down to the last meeting and I thought it was the day my life was going to change and I'll never forget my husband and I flew up for the meeting and we were standing there about three feet away from the head guy and he thanked us and he said we really love your product uh but it's a no we're going to pass investing and it cosmetics, right? And I sat there and I I said, "Okay, can you tell me why? Can you give me some feedback?" Because feedback's usually a gift.

And I'll never forget this moment in my life. It was a defining moment. And and I think so many people will be able to relate to this because we all have these moments in different in different ways. Uh but when I asked him like, "Oh, why is it a no?" you know, he looked at me and he's like, he's like three feet from my face. Um, and he said, "Uh, do you want me to be really honest with you?" And I said, "Yes, please." And he said, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight." Oh my god. Oh my god.

Freaking lying. Oh my god. And I sat there and it was wild because for me um you know a lifetime of body doubt like like flooded my body all at once and I was was watching these words come out of his mouth. Two things happened though and this is your story reminded me of this story. Two things happened in that moment. I mean listen I went to my car and baldled my eyes out. I had to figure out how to not replay those words over and over forever. Um, but in that moment, in that moment when you literally three feet from me saying those words, I remember like distinctly I remember having this feeling in my gut like deep down inside like he's wrong.

Just like what you just said about university, I was like he's wrong. And I knew it. I felt it. Um and and and I also realized, oh wow, this dude is passing on investing my company because he's just as much I don't want to say a victim, but but uh impacted by the whole beauty industry, too, that tells you to look a certain way to make money, right? So, it fueled me more to keep going. Um, and one last thing to share just because I think like it's fun when we share our victories too is um, six years later, the day uh, L'Oreal acquired at Cosmetics, they they did a big press release, so it went everywhere uh, when the day I sold my company. And it was all over the homepages of of Wall Street Journal and everywhere. And I got a I hadn't heard from him in six years. And I actually got an email from him uh, and he said uh, congratulations from that investor, the guy that said no. He said, "Uh, congratulations. Uh, I'm so happy

for you. I was wrong." And Wow. Yeah. And and and I this is the cool part about uh life is I learned like it would have been the most successful investment in his firm's history. But but also cat and I'm telling you there there's a famous saying um rejection is God's protection. Uh which you could also say rejection is the universe's protection, right? It's applies differently for everybody. But like had he had he not rejected me, I was so desperate at the time, I probably would have given him the majority of the company for almost no money and and thought and and been grateful because he didn't believe in me even though it sucked at the time. It was so painful.

Um, fast forward six years, we were still of the biggest shareholders of the company when we sold it. So, it was like life changing. So, thank God he didn't believe in me at the time. Um, and anyways, sometimes we get these rejections and they suck, but like I I try to keep that faith.

I think it's so important to remember though too that failure and rejection aren't like just because you can handle it doesn't mean you don't feel it. So, you can totally feel like you can get it it can get you down and that I think a lot of people think that you know rejection and failure you when you have gone through it there's no you're kind of like I'm immune to it. It's fine. It's good. No, you can still definitely, but how do you move through it?

But if you don't feel it, you don't grow from it, right? Like if you don't feel anything,

you might be a little bit too medicicated or something, but you have to feel. That's okay.

True. You got to be able to still feel and and yet to be able to feel it. Exactly. If you were to just like not feel it and carry on, you wouldn't have learned that that that wasn't the right person for you and that wasn't the person that was going to put forth your company the way you wanted it to be because you absolutely needed to be the leader of this company for it to be the way that it for the way to sell the way that it didn't do so well and if they had put you know who knows who who you would have put in your place.

I love that you share that that it's okay to feel it because yeah even to this day I feel it. I feel hurt to this now anytime I get rejected or anytime like a friend doesn't show up for me how I hope they would or you know what I mean? I mean to this day it like will destroy me inside and I think it's good to share those things because

I think a lot of people are embarrassed when they feel when they so their eyes out for days or they feel like it's a weakness. I don't I don't think it is. I think

but when you get rejected that feeling of rejection is like you know it's ironic you share that story cuz we were out in LA for TV and we got a a huge deal in February. Uh fast forward and our year ago

our agents were like this is unheard of this doesn't happen. Our agent at WME called us. You know, fast forward to April, the deal's gone, done because of life's COVID, you know, all the circumstances maybe

or protection. Yep. Or protection. And it was like a major, it was like what, you know, it was another knock, but it's again, it fueled us to go, all right, where can we go next? How can we call? So I think the feeling what I I love about what your book and what you're talking about and you know everyone needs the book because women often you see someone who has an idea and then you see the success right so I actually use Sarah Blakeley as an example who I don't know much about but mad respect because she obviously started it in her university room span from here to there and but her story is

you see that she had the idea and then you see her building of like you know success and the in between everyone can say, "I had hardships. It was really hard. I had nos." But when you can't relate to the story of a man sitting there and telling you to your face the reason you're not successful, it's very easy in your own brain because storytelling is what brings us all together. When you can actually take the humanity in someone's story, then you can relay it to yourself and say, "Well, I can maybe do that because maybe your mom or dad used to say that to you that, you know, that's a pipe dream. It's never going to happen. Get a real job."

tell these folks a little about starting, you know, a billion-dollar company in your house on the floor and maybe what's the mindset to go when you have all the doubt?

Yeah. Well, the first and most important thing is doubt's so normal, right? Uh doubt, impostor syndrome, thinking, "Oh, do I have what it takes?" Right? So, anyone out there feeling that right now, it's it's universal. And Brendan, I don't know if you've had this experience, but the more people that I've looked up to for decades, the most some of the most incredible people in the world I've had the blessing of meeting now, they all have this, they all say the same thing. They even still now when they launch a new thing or a new network or a new uh anything, right?

They all actually deal with the same thing of do I have what it takes? Am I enough? How will this be received? Is this gonna matter? Uh uh. Do I belong? I mean, all those things that people don't want to admit they feel. We all feel them. Even people that it just blows me away and makes me feel less alone when I hear them share those things, which is why I love that we're, you know, all coming together in community for Growth Day morning show.

Ladies and gentlemen, rock this house. So, WELCOME TO THE STAGE BABY K Leman. [screaming] Baby K Lima.

Every single one of us has had someone tell us we're not enough. Every single one of us has had someone say words to us that

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "This is How Successful Entrepreneurs Handle Endless Rejections | Jamie Kern Lima"?

In order: 0:00 Rejection, Beauty Industry, Believe It; 10:00 Rejection, Alan Burke, Believe It; 20:00 Rejection, Alan Burke, Department Store, Nebraska; 30:00 Service, Beauty Industry, Department Store, Fulfillment; 50:00 Worthy, Fulfillment, Service, Believe It; 1:00:00 Rejection, Worthy, Service, Worthybook.com/ed; 1:10:00 Believe It; 1:20:00 Rejection, Beauty Industry, Growth Day.

What is mentioned in this Jamie Kern Lima episode?

16 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Rejection, Worthy, Believe It, Service, Beauty Industry, Alan Burke. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "This is How Successful Entrepreneurs Handle Endless Rejections | Jamie Kern Lima"?

The episode runs 1 h 28 min; the transcript is about 17,672 words in 185 timestamped sections.

More from Jamie Kern Lima

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 19, 2025.