Why You Should Trust Your Gut Instinct | Jamie Kern Lima

What this episode is about

The discussion emphasizes the importance of trusting one's gut instinct and inner truth, advocating for self-awareness over blind perseverance. Jamie Kern Lima urges individuals to listen to their innermost feelings and beliefs, as doing so can lead to a more authentic and fulfilling life path.

Key takeaways

• Listening to your gut isn't just biology; it's a career GPS we often ignore.
• Jay-Z might preach perseverance, but sometimes quitting is life's best mic drop.
• Letting go of childhood dreams: An adult rite of passage we rarely celebrate.
• Parent or not, 'don't quit' isn't universal when the path diverges from inner truth.
• Success whispers softly; the loud cheers often mask a misstep.

What is discussed, and when

1. 20:00 – 30:00: Peter De Mendes
2. 30:00 – 40:00: Lisa Mason, Miss Lisa Mason
3. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: CEW Beauty Awards
4. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Lisa Mason, Miss Lisa Mason
5. 1:20:00 – 1:28:36: Women of Faith, Authenticity is your superpower, K Leman

Notable quotes from "Why You Should Trust Your Gut Instinct | Jamie Kern Lima"

• Yeah. I think it's like I think it's Peter De Mendes. I think he said this the day before a breakthrough. It's just another dumb idea.

  about Peter De Mendes · at 29:06

• Much you know why it exists and why it's different and special and she said you know my name is Miss Lisa Mason. I'm a QVC show host and I just looked at her and she goes, I…

  about Lisa Mason · at 32:57

• In this big beauty be beauty competition. And it's like this it's called CEW Beauty Awards and it's in New York City and I it was you know there's six so imagine this huge like exhibition center. Sure.

  about CEW Beauty Awards · at 1:08:06

• Think absolutely know you hear your authenticity is your superpower. And in this case, it was in every way, shape, and form. Like had we ever start changing who we were to listen to all the advice from the stores.

  about Authenticity is your superpower · at 1:24:04

• But there's this huge conference that traveled around a Christian conference called Women of Faith. I don't know if you ever heard of that or went to it, but it was like an arena conf like an arena tour and I'd never heard of it.

  about Women of Faith · at 1:24:50

• Ladies and gentlemen, rock this house and welcome to the stage K Leman.

  about K Leman · at 1:28:14

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Lisa Mason — Person · 2 mentions · first at 33:02
• Miss Lisa Mason — Person · 2 mentions · first at 33:02
  Much you know why it exists and why it's different and special and she said you know my name is Miss Lisa Mason. I'm a QVC show host and I just looked at her and she goes, I…
• Peter De Mendes — Person · 1 mention · first at 29:07
• K Leman — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:28:19

Companies & orgs

• Women of Faith — Company · 3 mentions · first at 1:24:54
• CEW Beauty Awards — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:08:10
• California Bank & Trust — Company · 1 mention
• Ulta — Company · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

• Authenticity is your superpower — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:24:05

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Talk to me about the idea of who we can become. What is it you want us to believe?

0:05 Yeah. My biggest hope, prayer, intention uh is that each person closes this book and is better able to hear their own gut and trust themselves. And what I mean by that is, you know, I think sometimes I think what Jay-Z said is is so right, right? But I also think it's not a victory because we're told so many times, keep going, don't give up, don't give up. Like since the time we're little kids, we watch, you know, even if we don't play sports, we watch movies and kids are taught just don't quit. Don't give up. I actually think it's a failure if we don't ever learn how to tune in and hear our own gut and our truth and our calling and then we just keep going and don't give up anyway and we're not on the right path. And what I mean by that is, you know, I since the time I was a little girl, I'd watch Oprah in my living room and I I just had this this knowing, oh, I want to interview other people. Like my whole in

1:09 my whole instincts, Tom, are I literally just want to ask you questions right now about you and Lisa, who I'm obsessed with. And like that's my my who I am, right? I I love other people's stories. And so I knew that's what I always want to do for my career. So, you know, eventually um that's what I did. I was working as a journalist. I was working as a television news anchor. And when I got that problem that I mentioned earlier, that skin problem, you know, I was at this moment in time. And I think you know hopefully everyone in Impact theory community like wherever you're at in life right now at this very moment I believe everyone has a knowing inside of them. I don't think it matters if they have a faith or no faith. I don't think it m any of that. I think everyone universally has a knowing or a truth inside. Uh and I think most people never learn how to get still and hear it. And most people, if they do get still and

1:58 hear it, they're going to know right now live while they're listening to you and me. Are they in the right job they're supposed to be in? Or is there is are they are they playing it small? Are they in the right relationship? Or are they in it and dimming their own light because of fear that maybe they'll be alone? We all have a knowing, right? And you know what I'll say about the idea of of giving up, leveling up, all of that, I think it's so important that um you know in that moment where I had the and again let me just say there's so much I did wrong and I share all that stuff too. One of the things I did right was when I had this this gut feeling as I'm sitting there with this skin problem, this gut feeling, oh, you're supposed to figure out how to how to create a beauty company. Even though I knew nobody in the beauty industry, had no connections, had very little money because television news does not pay

2:57 very well. Um, I had that knowing, right? And yet I was sitting there in my dream job. Like that was my dream job since the time I was a little kid. So I think sometimes like knowing when to let go of a dream, knowing when to quit is actually a victory, too. It's actually as important as when to keep going, right? And so with Jay-Z's quote, the genius thing we did was we didn't give up. I I think that applies only if someone hears their truth and says, "All right, I have this knowing I'm supposed to be doing what I'm doing." And when I look back at this journey of three years of constant rejection down to under $1,000 in our bank account, literally getting knocked down over and over from all of these beauty retailers that I put on a pedestal and I couldn't understand why they were telling me I wasn't the right fit for them. Every time I would check in with my gut, right? And maybe so many people out there can relate to

3:56 this because you you feel like you're doing something you're supposed to be doing, but like for me, there was no proof around me that my idea was right. There was no traction in my business. There was nobody saying, "Yeah, that's a great idea. Let me buy your product." And then I'm going to the beauty retailers and they didn't believe in the brand. And everything around me was saying, "You're wrong." And the easiest thing in life is to confuse that with the truth. And I think the only way we know the truth in life is when we get good at getting still and hearing that inner knowing. And so for me, every time I would get knocked down, I would just check in, get still. And it's hard sometimes because a lot of people out there, they have not heard their own gut in a long time, right? Because we have like our friends and family that are are worried about us if we're or or they're seeing everything through the lens of

4:50 their own life and their own fear and their own exper, you know, experience or lack of experience. And then we have you know in my case experts who I valued so much saying like ah you know you're not the right fit you're not you know not literally saying no and as as you know as I shared in so many stories in the book they said so many other crazier things that all but basically said like it's not just a no now it's a no forever

5:17 right um but I think the the victory is learning to get still and hearing your knowing and then trusting it. A lot of people don't trust themselves and and I think that is what keeps people inside their comfort zone in life which I think when you stay in your comfort zone it come it chips away at your soul and you end up talking yourself out of your own truth and then never becoming the person you're born to be. Not to get all dramatic on impact theory, but that to me is the biggest. And listen, to me it's not about the outcome. Oh, here here's how to create a billion-dollar company. It's about the journey of are you stepping into all of who you are and the person you're born to be and how do you do that?

6:06 All right, that was amazing. But now, are you ready to get into the weeds on this idea?

6:11 Let's do it. In your book, you talk about developing your intuition. How do people develop their intuition so that when they need to turn to it and they learn to be still and listen to it that it actually gives them good advice?

6:25 Yeah. The very first step is to pay attention, right? Which it's listen, we are so busy in our lives right now and so many of us with all the stuff going on with with the pandemic, with this, with that, with our job, with and then frankly at the end of some days, all I want to do is scroll Instagram or like yesterday eat candy hearts for Valentine's Day. Like, you know what I'm saying? I don't want to like actually put in the work. But I believe that it's so important like if someone's gonna do anything and you hear so much about morning routine or this or that or whatever taking five minutes a day and just starting building that muscle and at first it may make no sense, right?

7:07 Especially because so many people are out of practice, but literally getting still. Even if you have to just go sit in a closet, leave your phone out, just go sit in a closet and just see what you think and and you know and and can you hear your own truth? And another thing I would say just as a real fundamental level is to look back at your past because I believe it's something we build over time if we pay attention, right? And I can say that most of my mistakes I've made when I look back is because I didn't trust my own gut and I trusted my mind instead. And my mind was able to say, "Oh, these are all the experts. They're experts for a reason.

7:47 Uh they're touted visionaries and they're telling you to change this about your product packaging or they're telling you to do this about and they have a proven track record and you don't. So even though Jamie you have some gut feeling like go you know my mind won and when when that's happened those are some of my biggest mistakes and I think looking back on that's important just to like break it down at a real fundamental level. So many of us have dated the person we know is not right for us. You know what I mean? But we know right. And I can think of times where I was dating a guy who I was so into and like his phone broke and he disappeared. And I knew he's lying. I knew it, but I didn't want to know it. I didn't want to know it.

8:39 Right? So what what happens? I'm like, "Oh, well, it's only the first time it's ever happened. Maybe he's telling the truth. Maybe all the things, right? I know he's sketchy. I know he's lying, right? But we sometimes we know and this is such a basic example and we just choose to not to to to to talk ourselves out of it anyway, right? And I think that every human being can really actually just put in a little time thinking about different moments in their life and actually start to remember like did I have a gut feeling about this at the time or did I not or you know did I was there a time I listened to that inner knowing and I was right. Right? And we start thinking about those times and it it starts to build up our own trust in ourselves over time. And for me, this was a this was a huge way that I was able to keep going.

9:31 I um you you mentioned one thing that that I mean I I remember um Tom after you know this we were a couple years into our business and uh I had been sending our product out to all the retailers and saying, "Hey, I want to show models that actually have skin challenges like I do." do and that had never been done before, right? And I wanted to do all these things and they were all telling me no and it's not the right fit. And I knew my product was really good. Um, I learned the lesson, the hard lesson a lot of entrepreneurs learn that you can have a great product or a great course or a great service or a great but that's not enough. Like people have to know it exists, right?

10:10 And when you have no money and no ad budget, that's really hard. This is 2008 2009 uh 2010. YouTube wasn't huge yet. So, no one had gone out there and said, "Oh, instead of overly photoshopped, perfect skin models, let's show real people with real skin challenges and all ages and sizes and skin tones." And that's what I had this vision for because that's what I was, you know, and and we created a product that was so good. And then after all these rejections from all the department stores, all the beauty stores saying, "No, thank you. It's a pass. Your product will never sell. Those kind of images don't work. I had one store tell me, "Women will only buy from a a an aspirational image of beauty. They'll never be able to look like. If they can actually look that way, they won't buy it." And it was just like over and over and over rejection. Um, and I'll never forget this one moment just to share as

11:08 an example because it helped me develop my intuition muscle so strongly. But we had gotten an inbound call from a potential investor and uh and they were a really well-known private equity company and they invested in a lot of consumer products uh in the grocery stores like household names that we buy. they uh loved our product and so we started taking meetings with them and I was so freaking excited because I felt like oh my gosh if they invest in us then maybe they'll use their leverage to get us into these retailers and also I won't go bankrupt and all those things and um there's that and uh and so we did meetings we started the diligence phase we presented product pipelines all that stuff and it got down to the last meeting and my husband and I flew there for the meeting And it was the head guy.

11:58 He was standing about three feet from me. And I thought it was going to be like the best day of my life, right? And I'll never forget he was three feet away and he says to me, "I just don't think women Well, he first he said it's a no. We're going to pass on investing in it cosmetics." And like I'd heard no thousands of times, right? So I'm like devastated, but I'm like okay. Um can you share why? You know, because feedback um is usually a gift. And uh and he says, "Do you want me to be really honest with you?" And I said, "Yes." And he literally was 3 ft from me and he said, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight." And I remember when he said that to me, a bunch of things happened.

12:44 The first thing was I I remember feeling like my whole body flood with like a lifetime of body issues, body doubt, and self-doubt. And I felt all that. So, it kind of felt like I was staring my own fear straight in the eye talking to him. I never felt anger toward him. I felt hurt and crushed. Uh but I also got this feeling. I'll never forget this, Tom. I'll never forget this the rest of my life. I got this feeling like literally in my gut like a knowing he's wrong. Even though I was still doubting myself, even though I had dealt with like a lifetime of body doubt, I got this feeling he's wrong. And I remember that feeling because I remember then for a few years wondering like am I right or is he right? I would still doubt myself, right? And and I went out in my car and I cried and I had to figure out how do I turn down the volume in my own head and not replay those hurtful words over and

13:42 over and over. But I also remember that feeling I got and and I don't this is a big business thing not to be off topic but like one of the things I did do right was I never took rejection personally in business right I always figured out how to go okay like if this is a game of chess maybe we will partner one day so I'm just going to pretend we are with every retailer with and I'm just going to keep sending them product and keep sending them updates and keep telling them I can't wait till I'm in your store no matter how bad that rejection And in his case, what I realized also was, oh, okay, the reason I'm creating this company, I want to try to shift culture and beauty. I want to try to use different images of models. And he's literally passing on investing in my company because he is just as much influenced by a lifetime of seeing beauty images, too. So, he believes also, whether he realizes it or not, you

14:37 have to look a certain way to sell product. Um, and the last thing I'll say about that is I do believe in that famous saying that like rejection is God's protection, right? You could say rejection is the universe's protection. I do believe in sayings like that. And when you fast forward six years later, the day that L'Oreal bought at Cosmetics, uh, it was all over the like the Wall Street Journal homepage. It was everywhere online because they hit they're a public company. So that means for them they decided to release the purchase price, everything. I got an email from that guy, from that investor.

15:10 I got an email that day that said, uh, congratulations. I'm so happy for you. I was wrong. But the other thing when I talk about like rejection is God's protection. I really believe that because even though we don't see it at the time and it doesn't make sense at the time, but like I was so desperate, Tom, I would have probably given him the majority of the company for like almost no money. and because he didn't believe in us and because so many people rejected us along the way by the time we did sell our business to L'Oreal we're still the largest shareholders. So it was like there's so many situations like that. But anyhow that deep knowing that knowing he's wrong that's an example of okay looking back over time where did I make mistakes and where did I do things right? And then we refine that muscle of of of learning, oh yeah, you know, learning to trust ourselves.

16:06 There is so much in that that is extraordinary. We're now going to test my abilities as an interviewer to see if I can tease out some of the things that you talk about in the book to put a capstone on this idea of training your intuition. So, I have a deep and abiding fear of being spiritual entertainment. People will be moved by you. they will be moved by your story. But if they're very careful and they pay close attention, it will change how they move through the world. Certainly as a person just pursuing goals, but potentially even as somebody who wants to start their own business.

16:35 But let's talk about the gut then because there's multiple things that you just said there that all you've led back to the gut. And in hindsight, everyone listening and watching are going well done for trusting your gut. But there are many times that at least for me I've trusted my gut and I was wrong and I've learned my lesson and then I move on. So um so I want to start with you're on you're a news anchor you've got the blotches nothing was working for you. You're going to try your own a what made you trust your gut in that sense?

17:06 Because like you said you've um you had college debt so you had all this stuff that's stacked against you. It's based on beauty which for women is very emotional.

17:16 Um so how did you keep going and like try to find the solution instead of just hide away? Like what are the things that you told yourself that pushed you to keep going and trust your gut that this was the right path for you?

17:30 Mhm. I've always had this feeling deep down inside like I'm meant to do great things

17:37 that help other people. interesting. Um, I've always kind of just known it. even when I took the lowpaying job to learn journalism instead of like a super highpaying um you know consultant or banking job um I just felt

17:54 I just feel like if we get one life I want to like the day I die which god willing it's a long time in the future like I want to literally know there's nothing left in me that could have been used to help someone else

18:08 and you felt that even back when you were the news anchor Wow. So, I actually didn't feel like that. I do now. I feel like now my purpose of all the failures I've had, all the problems, all the health issues, my purpose now is to speak it so that it can help other people. But back but back when I started, it didn't. It was actually, if I can be so honest, it was out of pure ego. So, when people told me, "You can't do it. you're not good enough to do it. You're dumb. You're stupid. What are you doing? You're not talented. I was just um what's it?

18:41 Stubborn enough to say, I can do it. I'm going to prove them wrong. And it was out of stubbornness, not out of like I want to share it with the world. That actually pushed me to then show myself what I was capable of.

18:52 You were driven by ego cuz you're like, I'm going to prove them wrong. Exactly. Then I realized, wow, I'm actually actually did do it and I'm kind of capable. And so then it's like, well, if you're capable, what else can you do? And so that became the foundation of okay I maybe I have a superpower. So if I have a superpower now how am I going to help others? So it kind of became a transition for me versus then just an initial like from the beginning. So that's why it's really impressive that you felt that even before you had

19:20 any validation that you can do it or that you you know you have the ability to do it.

19:27 Yeah. I've always had that just that feeling and it's funny that you say this. I have definitely done things for ego. I have definitely done things for ego. And most of the time when I do that, I regret it. It doesn't feel right, right? You know what I'm saying? And sometimes I do stuff on ego and it it turns out great and whatever, but it's like it doesn't compare to that feeling

19:47 of knowing you're doing something bigger than yourself. Mhm. I feel like when you spend the time to really think about your why and why you're doing it, you know, why or how it's bigger than yourself, that will sustain you through so many hard times, right? Cuz just hearing some of what you're sharing, I'm having flashbacks even to to so many of the of the hard times even even once we finally got yeses and finally we're on QVC and all of that. It's when you're putting in 100 hour weeks and when stuff doesn't go your way and all that and

20:20 when your why is bigger than yourself, it it it sometimes it's like that's the only thing that gets you through those hard times and and keeps you going because sometimes if it's just for oursel or our own ego, it's not a strong enough why. when you are so burnt out and you feel defeated and you feel like self-doubts entering your mind, it's like money isn't a strong enough why. Um, because you can go get another job and get money. You know what I mean? It's like it's like really peeling back the layers on what you're doing and really getting to that that that true why that means so much to you. And for some people, it's I'm going to change this generation of my family. Where I come from is not where I'm going. I'm not going to have my children grow through what I went through, right? And that why is huge. It doesn't have to be a why to go change the outside world. It might be a why to change inside your own

21:18 home. And sometimes just like not just just not giving up and just keeping going is like is is the difference too in in making it. You know what I mean?

21:29 Oh. So, how do you do that then when you're in a moment? So, you've got your why, very strong why. You're going to impact women and how they feel about themselves. It's not just like you want to make them super glamorous. It's like you're going to change how they feel about themselves and that can lead to so many incredible things. Being a better mother, being a better wife, being a better employee, a better business owner, whatever it is. I think that can really lead to something.

21:51 Um, so you've got your strong why. Now you got your strong why, but you only have $1,000 left.

21:56 Yes, I know. How do you is the why strong enough to get you through it or was there something else that you had to do to tell yourself like no keep going because that's where people go like all right look at some point if something is failing

22:11 yeah at some point you have to let it go. Yeah. So uh so two things. So for me um and this is so personal to everyone and to what they believe in. For me faith is huge in my life and I feel like I hear my faith through my gut feelings you know. I really do. And um and there were nights where I was just like, is this what we're supposed to do? That combined with really freaking hard work and like

22:35 let's just keep it really real because sometimes and I love I don't know how we're going here to Denny's and all the really real stuff. But what I love about it is, you know, if if any of your your your your you know, your community has heard any of my story before, they've probably just heard the the billion dollar fairy tale. And the the real real of it is when we were under $1,000, I I we were trying to get SBA loans from anyone that would give one. No one would give one. And they shouldn't have because it's like, you know, you're trying to show a business plan for for projected sales when you don't even have any. You know, we were doing two to three orders a day on our website. Um but you know what? It it's a choice. I chose instead of having a job that paid me a salary, I chose to be an entrepreneur. And it's like, okay, but you got to hustle and you got to, you know, sometimes that's what you you have

23:28 to just do cuz you didn't take like a day off, right? You you guys you and your husband worked like a 100 hour work week, seven days a week for 10 years. And I think it, like you said, it's important to stress that.

23:39 You freaking busted your ass. Yeah, we we did. And it was like when we finally when we were under we got down to thou $1,000, we went and spent part of it on IKEA desks to put in the living room because we had an in-person office tour with California Bank and Trust, which was the last bank that was going to consider giving us an SBA loan. And uh but that, you know, we got the last the last person said yes on the SBA loan, which kept us alive a little bit longer. We were still only doing the two to three orders a day from our website and uh and and right around that time we got a first yes finally for QVC. But we had one shot and only 10 minutes. Um uh and

24:20 and you'd been going after QVC for for a long time. Going after him for a long time and always hearing no. I I remember oh my gosh like the number of nos from everybody. And so so there is a guy named Alan Burke who was like the head of beauty at QVC and he got all of those like really high-end department store beauty brands to really want to go on QVC and all the designer brands and so he was the head of all of it and I remember one day I finally got um I think it was a call from his assistant saying he wants to have a call with you.

24:53 he's reviewed your product. And I like thought this was going to be our big break. And he he was very quick and he said, "Um, I've reviewed your product with our buyers and you're not the right fit for QVC. Uh, I'm sorry and I wish you the best of luck." And I just remember crying myself to sleep that night and just, you know, have you ever like had something happen where, you know, that goes wrong or doesn't go your way and then like the next day you wake up and you like hoped it was a dream.

25:19 Yes. And then you're like, "It wasn't." You have to relive it almost. Yes. So for you in those moments you're hearing no over and over again. Most people would have stopped at number one.

25:30 Yeah. A lot of people would have stopped at number two. Majority would have stopped at number three. You kept going. This was like years and years and years of you likeounding Sephora and QVC. And so what is it? Is it just your innate ability to get back up or did you have to coach yourself in your mind to say no, you believe in this, remember your why. Like what does it actually look like?

25:52 Both. I feel like when I look back on things and this is what I love. It's like even if you're in a space right now in your life where you're like this isn't where I want to be. I would just trust it because I look back at like when I was when I was a news anchor,

26:05 I would get emails that were so mean. Like are you pregnant? Are you right? I had a news director at one of my jobs that would um just tear me to shreds um appearance-wise, stuff like that. And I I really feel like it helped make me really it helped me get really strong. So that rejection started to hurt a little less. Um but it still hurts. Um it still hurts. But resiliency is like the most important skill. I think I think what's tricky is going okay am I putting good money after bad? Right? Which is like a famous saying meaning does every sign tell me this is a bad idea and do I keep wasting my time and money? You know what I mean? That's the hardest thing to know, especially when you're building your business. And for me, the deciding factor for me was was

26:53 praying about it and realizing that I needed to keep my faith bigger than my fear because I just felt in my gut what I was doing mattered and it was needed. I think fear kills more dreams than like almost anything else. Self-doubt and fear, I think, kills more dreams than almost anything. I was um reading that famous Jay-Z quote where he says um the genius thing we did was we never gave up. And it's like, it's so true sometimes. And and what's crazy is I would have I would have saved myself so many nights of crying myself to sleep had I known what I know now, which is just that if you're doing something novel or that that that's different that hasn't been done before,

27:41 of course, all these people that are experts aren't going to get it right away because there's no it's never been done before. So there's no proof out there that tells them, "Oh yeah, this is a good idea." Or, "Oh yeah, this is going to succeed in your stores or, you know, it's never been done before." So I shouldn't have been surprised that all these people that I thought were like, you know, they would know if you know they're going to see our product and like love it right away. And the other thing I learned was by persistence and by not letting those nos destroy every ounce of of confidence I had. And Every single person that told us no has now told us yes.

28:23 But some of them told us no for years and many many many times. And here's the crazy thing and I don't know the answer to this. But what I do know, Lisa, is had I listened to any of a lot of the ways they told me to change our product or change our positioning, had I listened to that, I don't think our brand would have worked. I don't think I'd be sitting here having sold it to L'Oreal because L'Oreal has a a lot of other great brands that do what's already been done really well. They're the best at it in the world had I not done something totally different that went against what all these other experts were saying to do it. I wouldn't have created something of value that complemented their portfolio. Do you know what I mean?

29:06 Yeah. I think it's like I think it's um Peter De Mendes. I think he said this the day before a breakthrough. It's just another dumb idea.

29:12 And it's like, it's so true because you're getting nos a million times. You're also telling people people are being mean. Like in my intro, I said someone said to you, you know, who's ever going to buy makeup from you? So again, that was one of the toughest things I've ever dealt with in my own head because what had happened was so so we had no money as you know, as we've covered and um this this investor who he had invested in a lot of consumer product companies. So, he had a a big um he was the head of a a big private equity firm and a lot of companies I love uh were his products that he had invested in then sold.

29:49 Okay. And uh we finally got a meeting with him and he was super interested in. So, it's someone you're super excited about, someone you're amped about, you have a lot of respect for respect. Okay. That's makes it even worse.

30:00 I know. And and and they loved our idea of what we were doing with our products of our company. I'm like, "This is amazing because if they invest in us, then um a I'm not going to we're not going to go bankrupt tomorrow and b maybe they can help us get into these these retail stores." And like I just I was so excited. And then I I'll never forget this in person. This guy was like a foot and a half from me. Um and and they said, "We're going to we've decided to pass on the investment. It's a no." And I said, "Well, can you share with me a little bit why?" Because, you know, feedback's always a gift, even when we don't want to hear it. And um and he said, "Well, do you want me to be honest with you?" And I said, "Yes." And he goes, "I'm not sure if women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you, you know, with your body and your weight." Is what he said to me. And I remember looking at him and and just

30:52 like while I tried to handle it with grace and just say, "Thank you for your, you know, thank you for your feedback." I knew so strongly in my gut in that moment. So, it was this combination of being hurt, really obviously hurt, but I just had this strong gut feeling that said he's wrong. Like, he's wrong. And sometimes you just need to like bust out Google and just inspire yourself. So, I I remember after he said that, just for myself, I would look up so many of the people I admire most who I think are just making huge changes in the world, and I would ask myself, if they changed their body, would they do better? No, like if they got all skinny or got all whatever it is, like people that change the world, what they look like, I think, is is irrelevant. I think it's how they feel. It's their heart.

31:43 It's their intentions. And and I would just, you know, fill myself up with stuff like that just to get myself back to that place of confidence again. And when we finally, so here's the thing. Uh we got to a beauty show, this big beauty show in New York City. There were 6,000 women there and they walk the show. And what happens in the show, this is how we got on QVC, by the way. If you're a brand that's had a new product launch that year, you can pay money to go there. You get a three-foot table and you demonstrate your product. And so, we had signed up to do it. And the hope by doing this is that the 6,000 women walking and testing out all the new products that one of them will, you know, um, uh, work for a department store and get you in there or one of them will or they'll vote on your product and you'll get one of the awards. And so we were there doing that and QVC had a huge booth there and uh,

32:34 you're supposed to stay. You're not allowed to leave your three-foot table. But I kept like trying to sneak away to see like if there were the buyers at the QVC booth and I'd rush back to my table. What I didn't realize is one of the women that had I've been showing the product to was a QVC show host and I didn't recognize her and at the time and I don't know if I was just spacing out or what and I you know so I was showing her the product and like telling her how much you know why it exists and why it's different and special and she said uh you know my name is Miss Lisa Mason. I'm a QVC show host and uh and I just looked at her and she goes, "I want you to know I think your concealer is really special and I think our women at home, our QVC gals, they would love this product." And um and I want you to know I just went and told the buyer, I think we should have your product on. And I looked at

33:20 her and tears just started streaming down my face and I think I freaked her out. She's like, "Oh, sugar, I don't have any." Like she's like, "Oh, who what did I just She's like, "I don't have any power to get your I just want to let you know I did this. I believe in you." And I was like, "Thank you." And I was like, "Can I send you products?" She's like, "No, sugar, but you know, I just want to let you know I" And um so long story short, we got a meeting uh at QVC and we got a yes. Uh but what that meant was we have 10 minutes, one airing of 10 minutes. Um and you either hit their sales goal or you don't come back.

33:53 Right? And what I know now that I didn't know at the time is you might have 10 minutes, but if you're live on the air and you're not hitting numbers, all of a sudden your clock will go from 10 to six. And then you're like and you can't you can't panic and you have to have fun cuz and you can't try to sell cuz the second you try to sell, nothing sells.

34:14 Nothing sells. Nothing sells. So, and like and it'll be at six minutes and like if it's really not doing well, it cuts to two. And what's so hard is you're live on national television and you know in the back of your head I just lost a product or I just lo like it's so much pressure. Thankfully I didn't know that part in the the first airing. But what I did know was we had 10 minutes and we had to hit a sales target or never come back. And uh we needed to uh sell over 6,000 units of our concealer in that 10-minute window. And I just felt like, okay, if women can see this live on television, how it works, like, and they can see how it will, you know, change their lives, I can show it live on TV. And I just felt like this is it. And then here's where this appearance stuff resurfaced, right?

35:08 And for any woman out there or man who struggles with like, do what I look matter? Does my weight matter? Does my size matter? Do my clothes matter? It sucks when sometimes things all around us tell us they do right and this is a moment where I had to make a decision where everything was on the line for my business and what had happened Lisa was we um had met with out there's all these outside consultants and they help a lot of people do well on television and um you know they'll give you advice like here's how you you know do your demonstrations and here's the type of models to use and here's you know what to say and lot to say. And and when I met with all the consultants, they they all told me I needed to do uh this formula to work on air, which was cast only perfect skin models. Um all like the same age and skin tone and blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, but I want to show my bright red rosacea and

36:07 show how this works for me. And I want to show real women that are different ages and have different skin problems. And I want women all across the country that have never seen a model who looks like them and skin that looks like theirs. I want to show them live why I made this product. And every single uh uh consultant said that will not work. And if they want if I want to have any chance of succeeding in my business that I will do what they're saying, which is to do the formula, the only formula that had ever worked in beauty. And it was the most stressful probably moment of my whole career and decision of my whole career because everything was on the line.

36:50 Yeah. Break it down and then how you decided to just ignore them and do your own thing because like you said everything's on the line. What did that process look like for you where you said they're experts but I'm still not going to listen.

37:03 So I flew I was freaking out. I flew out to QVC um a week early. I love the honesty by the way. Oh my gosh. It's just it was and it's so funny. I took cuz we had no money. So I took this it was like three or four connections cuz it was the cheapest way to get to Philly. Um I got there I was in a rental car and I drove to the QVC parking lot every single day for a week and I sat there literally trying to envision what was going to happen in that 10 minutes. Um almost like the way I imagine Olympic athletes envision success. And I just knew in that moment, like I knew what I needed to do. I knew that if I if I went on QVC and did what everyone else had done, maybe my business would have succeeded at that time, but a it wouldn't have been authentic to who I am. I am not a makeup artist. I don't do makeup artist looks on people. It's not why I created the brand. It's not my why. So, I would have

38:02 been putting money and fear above the why I did this. And I just remember sitting in the parking lot and knowing

38:14 I even if I try and I go out there and I show my bare face, which is the last thing I want to do on national television, showing my bright red rosacea. But it wasn't about me. It was about I wanted to shift culture and beauty. I wanted there to be models that look like real women. I imagine real women all across the country who have forgotten that they're beautiful and have forgotten that they matter. And I realize in that moment I if I don't sell and we miss the sales goal, at least for that 10 minutes, there will be women that turn their television on and they see models, aspirational models, who I'm standing on television calling beautiful that look like them. and I'm showing women with with skin problems and issues and I want them to know we're all in this together. Like we've all got this.

39:08 But it was so scary. And I remember the camera goes live, the clock's at 10 minutes, and I remember it started counting down. And and I had this demonstration planned on my wrist, right, with where I put these two uh beautiful department store concealers that are top sellers and ours. And I would bend my wrist and show they start breaking up and cracking, right? And ours doesn't, which is why it would cover my rosacea. So I had this thing planned and I started doing it, but I was so stressed out. TV I'm not nervous for. It was the business, the weight of everything. and my hand was like this and I was like just shaking like shaking and I was trying to show and finally Lisa's like, "Thank you, sugar." And she shoves my hand under the the podium that we're presenting from. And I remember um at the 10-minute mark, literally the 10-minute mark, the sold out sign came up and I just looked at Lisa and I just

40:00 started crying cuz I was like, it was like real women have spoken. I'm so glad I listened to my gut.

40:09 Do you believe that your optimism allows this all to work because if you are looking at losses as in well this was meant to be part of my journey and this scar is actually attractive because that's how I think about it. I think about all those losses as scars and like that scar giving you character and that's attractive. Do you believe that optimism was an incredibly big factor and ingredient in your success?

40:36 I think optimism is great. I think though that knowing why we're doing what we're doing, listening to our gut, and going after our calling, like literally living our calling. I think that's the victory.

40:50 Hold on. Hold on though. Here's here's an interesting question. Every human needs levels of affirmation along the way to sustain that,

40:59 right? And so in the beginning where you're not seeing those results for many and I you might have you know I've always seen results pretty quickly in my good calls. So I I always try to think about someone who's not seeing it. So because they don't have optimism they have delusion and they think they're going to be you know Beyonce when they can't sing, right? Do do you feel like the you know believing in your calling gets affirmed along the way?

41:26 What do you rely on in that beginning? Don't you think blind faith is actually completely grounded in optimism?

41:34 I mean, for me, my faith is a huge part of my of my life. I I'm gonna take religion as faith out on the I'm saying I'm I was, you know, I'm just thinking about you, young you, in this moment and I'm really fascinated by it. I'm meant to do this because what you're talking about is what I love, which is the journey.

41:52 Yeah. Yeah. I don't I'm trying to get to your Go ahead, please. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say I don't think the victory is the outcome, right? I don't think the victory Listen, I know I know how accomplished you are and everything. I know you're going to have the New York Jets one day. I know all that, but I don't think that's the victory. I think the victory is is is the journey of actually like stepping into all of who you are and not talking yourself out of your own truth. And what I mean by that is this journey of that we're talking about, right? of course optimism, of course, uh resiliency to get back up every time you're knocked down, of course all those things. But I think that so many people listening right now, if they don't ever learn to get still and hear their own truth and hear their own intuition, I think what's going to happen, and this is what happens to most people, is they end up

42:38 uh staying in their comfort zone. They end up uh uh putting other their own immediate failures on a pedestal or other people's opinions or self-doubt, they end up talking themselves out of their own truth and then they end up never actually becoming the person they're born to be. So for me, I don't think like the fact that I was able to build a billion-dollar company is a victory. I think the moment of me knowing this is what I'm supposed to do and trusting it even when it doesn't make sense. Um, and I'll give you one example, okay, of of this. So, and maybe this will this will make sense because optimism of course is important and I know what you're saying, but I think the biggest thing is learning how to hear yourself and trust yourself. I really believe that. Um there was a moment

43:23 how do you how do you define that that as a term because I view that as self-belief and confidence and optimism. I'm just I think that you're such a you know very quickly I'm like oh she okay this is this is my sister like literally within the first three seconds you're like oh I see oh I see. So what I'm trying to do and I apologize because I want I'm hoping a different voice might do this for the listener. I'm trying to figure out what words you use to quantify agree with you everything you're saying. I I'm wondering if you view optimism as so I think optimism similar to what we were talking about earlier sometimes gets pegged as delusion.

44:02 Yeah. And I've been you see where I'm going because I could almost feel you doing that right now and I'm like I get you sister because like like this is why I like it's so create word smithing matters right like for example hustle has gotten demonized as like burnout. So I no longer use it

44:18 because I don't need it. You know what I'm going to call it? Work ethic. Call it what you want. Here's what I can tell you. for all the belief you had and all the love you had in doing what you were doing, I'm a pretty confident based on your outcome that there was a lot of work ethic there. And so, whatever you want to call it, and sometimes I just think about I know the word hustle triggers people, so I use the word work ethic now because I don't want to ever not let anybody who cares to listen to me not realize that if you don't put in the work, it is impossible. Thoughts on that?

44:50 Yeah, I agree with that. And I just had a big aha moment that what you're saying is optimism. I a billion% agree with and I I I'm thinking of that right now as belief. Um same thing. Yep. And now I'm right there with you. Like here's the thing when when and then I want to share one quick story with you too that I hopefully someone listening right now maybe needs to hear. But I mean when I look back it's like when people are like, "Oh, how did you start with Close to Nothing and build a billion dollar company?" It's like, yeah, I got, you know, I got back up every time I got knocked down and I followed my gut and I worked really, really hard. Uh, but I do think that one of the most important things I did was just like how to build a billion dollar company from nothing.

45:30 Like I think one of the most important things is making that decision to believe that you can.

45:34 Yes. And for me that that's optimism exactly what you're saying and I and I guess I call it belief. So yeah, a million% with that. Um, and one more thing just on maybe people listening to us right now that are like, "Oh, Gary, like Jamie, I, you know, I trust my gut sometimes and it's wrong or I tried it once and it didn't work or I don't know how, you know, don't know how to hear my own intuition." I just want to say I think that it is a muscle that we can all build. And I think people have to give themselves grace, right? It's almost, it reminds me of like when you start to meditate, a lot of people try it and they can't do it. they're like they go through their to-do list in their head the whole time they're trying to meditate or but you have to like give yourself grace and start and you know what I would say uh whether it's entrepreneurs or someone who's 14 years old and out there dating right now I

46:21 would say when you start to look back at your experiences and think about moments when you had a gut feeling and you didn't follow it like we've all dated like a sketchy guy or or had a and like you're like you know his phone didn't really just dis like shut off for three days or he didn't lose the phone he like you know and then you kind of make that decision of like okay

46:46 talk talk to me about I mean we are really vibing here I actually want to talk to you offline because I just have had the thought um talk to like I'm sorry to interrupt but I'm so excited

46:56 insecurity right because you're like to me like thinking to my girlfriends friends that were girls that were dating guys that I knew what the guys were doing which was they were praying on my friends insecurities and sometimes brilliant, beautiful girls and I'm like this [ __ ] sucks.

47:13 Yeah, this woman it really triggered something in me. This woman I'm thinking about four or five friends through the last 20 years. This woman is subjectively and if we had a hundred people ask is a million miles better than this man. This man has figured out the cheat code that if he makes her feel insecure, he has the leverage. Thoughts?

47:33 Yep. I think that happens every single day. And I think that we uh we look for people that um treat us how we believe we deserve to be treated like like we find partners.

47:49 So So you go you go with cool before you worry about jerk off Johnny. This is a big game of your own lack of self-love towards you.

48:00 It's your own lack of self-love because here's the thing and I don't know your friend so I'll just say this. I I'll make a general statement.

48:06 You you'll appreciate this. This was mainly 17 to 25 years old because you see that so commonly there. I mean, in later stages, you know, people are in really deep relationships and you're in different parts of your life. When you're going through high school and college, you're spending so much time with people, you get better reads to the cle the cleanness of the data is like, "Oh, this is really [ __ ] up." When you're older, you're running in different circles, you don't really get to see it as easily,

48:31 right? And I think that whether you know, no matter your age, this is what I believe. I think that when someone's treating us like crap and we stay with them, I think it's because it's we deep down inside don't believe we deserve better yet. And here's the thing for for people like that that are dating your friend who's totally screwing them over, right? If you were to bring the the best, most qu most amazing, beautifully like kind person into their space, that same girl would probably put them in the friend zone.

49:04 I couldn't. Yeah. Because they don't believe. Yeah. It's what they're and and also people value different things through their life. M

49:17 you know one of the things you know right now we live through a generation desperately interested in blaming social media for lack of accountability. They're just pointing fingers

49:27 right like it if you are in a good place with yourself and your perspective is strong around gratitude an anonymous person's negative comment is not going to ruin your day.

49:39 Yeah. And I think when it does, I think that's what's so tough, right? That's when it's a reminder to ourselves like, "Oh yeah, we have some more work to do." Um, one of the things I talk about in my book, Believe It, is just that ability to learn to turn down the volume uh on certain things and turn up the volume on other things. Like one one example, um, we were three years into building the company, right? I was hearing no from everyone, Gary. Like from all the retailers I dreamed of carrying our products that I used to shop in, right?

50:06 I would save my tip money like I mentioned as a Denny's waitress and buy products in the department stores or

50:10 in what and what what year was this? Uh so so we launched 2007 uh like I quit my job 2007 I wrote the business plan on my honeymoon flight to South Africa with my husband. Not the most romantic way to kick off a marriage. And we both got back uh quit our jobs dove all in. I thought Gary maybe so many entrepreneurs listening. I thought, "Oh, if I just pour everything I have and actually create a product that works, like it's just going to sell. If it's that good, it's just going to sell." Uh, and then I didn't realize it would be the hard. I mean, I've had a lot of jobs in in my life, but being an entrepreneur is by far.

50:48 Well, you especially also built that brand different than building a brand today where you can use Shopify and social media to build it. You had to get a yes from Sephora, Ulta, you know, Walmart, Walgreens, and you know, Macy, whoever it was. And that is difficult when you're innovating the way you did. Do you know that my whole life is no? Do you know Vayner Media? A lot of people listening don't know this. Most brands don't want to say yes to Vayner Media. We don't want to do a commercial and then go to sleep. Like, we don't want to take 12 weeks to do the perfect commercial and then do print ads that look like it or banner ads or digital programmatic. My whole life building Vayner Media is no. Everything I do as Gary Vee is easy. I just do it with the audience. But Vayner Media is exactly I know what you're living through because when you innovate and you're doing something different and you don't look

51:36 the part, you didn't work at Proctor and Gamble for 13 years. Yeah. Like what's this Washington State thing? Like they you know, you know what it is.

51:44 Well, and it's wild because I would go in and start you know I would pitch the product and you know we were staying alive uh on social media. we were getting, you know, people were were writing just blogs at that point and we were selling like one to three orders a day on our website and people were were spreading the word. That was the only way we we barely stayed alive. But all the retailers, exactly what you said, and by the way, I've learned this like when you're doing something that's authentic or that is different, but even if it's just authentic to you, even in a crowded industry, by definition, it's novel. By definition, it's never been done before. And I really believe looking back now at this journey and and and everything I believe that like even vision even a lot of visionaries touted visionaries I think they can't imagine anything being successful unless subconsciously they have they have proof

52:27 in the back that they've already seen it and it's already worked. So it's like of course so many people are going to say no to your dream or doubt your dream if they've never seen it done before. And we had three years of every single beauty retailer saying no you're not the right fit. Uh it's not going to work. you're not right for our customers. And I kept, and by the way, we talk about gut feeling. I kept having this gut feeling we're supposed to go on QVC because then I could actually like show my bright red rosacea and prove live that our product works, unlike the photoshopped ads on TV. And this is just something to share for someone who might need to hear this right now who's having a gut feeling, but they feel like they're wrong. Like I kept having this feeling, and every time I would do a meeting with QVC, it would be a no.

53:08 every phone call I'd finally get like I got their head guy Alan Burke on the phone. Um he's like a legend. He's responsible for building this billion dollar uh beauty empire on QVC and I finally got him on a call and I thought for sure it was going to be a yes and because if he's taking his precious time and it was about a minute into the call and he said I just need to let you know we've reviewed your product with all the buyers. It's unanimous. It's a no. You're not the right fit for QVC. And of course I like poured my heart out. I'm like oh but I am the right fit. Then I, you know, we were down under $1,000 in our bank account at that point. So I remember like crying myself to sleep.

53:43 And long story short, a year later when I finally did get a yes to go on QVC, um, I took this big risk that that I was advised not to by consultants and I put real women of all shapes and sizes and skin tones and skin challenges and I showed my own bare face and all the things that had never been done before.

54:03 We sold out at the 10-minute mark. I was crying on national television because it's live. QBC is live to 100 million homes.

54:11 You knew you knew the truth and your heart would win. Not, you know, students telling you what to do.

54:20 Yeah. You know, and and listen, it was a big risk, but I feel like I know this lesson that like I know this and now I've seen it play out with thousands of entrepreneurs over the years, but you I know that authenticity alone doesn't guarantee success, but inauthenticity guarantees failure.

54:38 Love that. Love that. What did you believe was possible then? And did you learn to trust your gut then? Like when did you start learning to trust your intuition to hear those voices? Cuz I I get impulses, too. I get hits of what I'm supposed to do and I think some people don't get them. So, you share a lot of tips in the book, by the way. So, we're not going to be able to share everything on this interview. Read the book. Jamie shares a ton of tips in this book to help you on your journey. If you're a small business, her advice is incredible. If you're growing your business, if you're a big business, if you're a leader, if you're someone who's an entrepreneur, if you're someone who wants to be more creative, all of the chapters in that book give you nuggets of wisdom and advice and tips to help you on your journey. It's like really is for everyone just so you know.

55:22 So you're going to get some tips but but Jamie in terms of that intuition and gut tell us about that Denny's waitress that you were and what was possible then to you.

55:30 Yeah so I've always felt and you know um I've always felt deep down inside like like I was destined to um serve in a big way or do something that that impacted other people uh on all of our own journey. I always had that inkling. Didn't know what it was. And uh working as a Denny's waitress. This is so funny. Working as a Denny's waitress. Oh my gosh. So, so the Denny and I was I was working to try and save up for for school and all that and pay my way through school and uh Denny's. It's so funny how so many things teach us lessons, right? So, I won't get into this too much, but like the Denny's I worked at the kitchen was a mess in the sense of they would take an hour to get pancakes out sometimes. So, I'm an introvert by nature and I was like, "Oh my gosh, people are getting mad and they're leaving because it's taking an hour to get pancakes. Uh, and and I'm not getting a tip and I really need a

56:25 tip because I'm trying to pay for through school." And so, I learned to talk to people and try to be like and try to just connect with them and and and and ask about their stories and that whole thing. and it probably planted a seed in me of understanding the importance of operations of a business and the right operational infrastructure. So even as a even as a you know in that whole different industry as a Denny's waitress I really think every single thing we go through in life helps us uh build that foundation right of of where we're we're we're going to be. But, you know, in the time I was a Denny's waitress, here's really where my gut started speaking to me. And this is for everybody out there.

57:06 It's never too late to start learning how to hear your own intuition, right? Most people never do. Most people never do, but just like faith or like anything else, I think it's never too late. I think everyone can start now. And I I really think that it's a journey. It's a journey of building on experiences and then looking back and going, "Oh, I didn't listen to my gut there. I had that instinct and and and and it didn't go so well." Or, "Oh, I I decided to go against everyone else. I trusted my gut and here's what happened." Right? And I think for all of us, it's every area of life. I mean, this is something a lot of your community might relate to, uh, is like, or not, but if you've ever dated a sketchy guy or oh, you have a friend where you're just like, I don't think they're telling me the truth.

57:56 Something's not adding up. We kind of know it, right? Like like so many people can hopefully hopefully relate to this at some point in their life, but they've dated someone where they're like, I don't really believe him that his phone just broke or that he just like disappeared for a right. I I don't think he like he you know, you know, and you can choose. We all choose like, oh, I'm just going to ignore it and I'm just going to stay in love or you know what, like, okay, I'm done. like we all know and I feel like we continue building those experiences in life. Um and and then we look back on them and and it's like now I'm able, you know, uh looking back on so so much of this journey, I'm able to really know that some of my biggest mistakes and misjudgments and miscalculations came when I went against that inkling inside, right? And I trusted people that are touted visionaries or or or experts. And it's

58:58 good to trust experts and visionaries. Except if your gut, if your deep gut inkling goes against it because knowing that you stayed to that through line of authenticity for you and what you're called to do is so important. And learning how to tune in and hear that can literally change the whole course of your life. And one uh one big example of that is probably one of the greatest business lessons I've ever learned and and life lessons. And it came down to this moment where after three years of hearing nos. And by the way, John, at one point, I think it was two years into our business, I actually was able to get Oh, and just to share a scrappy tip for anyone out there like really building their business who can't afford to hire people. I was like emailing everyone on LinkedIn. I was I would find anyone that worked at the company. I would just try to get in some way, send them products, ask them to, you know, and I'd finally

59:54 like hustled my way into a guy named Alan Burke, who is the head of olive beauty at QVC. Uh he had built this billion dollar, multi-billion dollar beauty industry there, department there, and I got through to his assistant and I begged her to like have him look at our product and get us meetings and all those things in front of the buyers. Anyways, long story short, I got a a a call saying he is going to take a call with me and he's reviewed the products. And I thought, "Oh my gosh, this head of everything, Alan Burke, if he's going to spend his precious time like calling me, it's going to be good, right?" And I was so excited. And I was in I was pacing around waiting for the call in our office, which was our living room. And um and Paula was there and I was like I was freaking out. He called and right when I answered the phone obviously I was like like I mean we had I didn't know what we were going to do, right? We

1:00:49 were down to no money. I was freaking out and I uh I said, you know, okay, to my head I'm like they're lucky to have us. I'm going to be he's lucky to get us like all these things, right? Pumping myself up and I got on the phone and he said, you know, hello Jamie. This is Alan Burke from QVC. Uh and I'm like Allan, it's so great to talk to you and this whole thing. And anyways, he got right to the point. and he said, "We've reviewed your products with all the buyers here in the beauty department, and it's unanimous that it's a no. We're going to pass on on your company. You're not the right fit for QVC, and you're not the right fit for our customers, but we wish you well." And I was like, "Oh, but I am the right fit." And I just tried to pour into another pitch. And uh he thanked me for loving QVC, but said, "It's a no. Got them." Okay. So, then I cried myself to sleep three nights in a

1:01:35 row. Uh if you've ever had bad news and you like wake up in the morning and you hope it was a dream and you're like, "Oh, it wasn't." Right? It was like that day after day after day. So, fast forward another year. We're at a big beauty show and one of the QVC hosts tried our product. There were 6,000 women there. She tried our product and said, "You need to be on QVC." She told the buyer, "We got one shot. We got our first big yes. But but what it meant, and this is one of the greatest life lessons and business lessons I've ever learned as it pertains to trusting your gut and staying authentic to who you are, we got one shot on QVC. And here's what it meant. We got a 10-minute window to go live in front of 100 million homes and sell our product. But what it also meant was, and at the time, we were selling only two to three orders a day on our website, right? Fulfilling them out of our living room, driving to the

1:02:26 post office. Uh, so we're only selling two to three orders a day, barely staying alive. We had to, they ordered over 6,000 units of our concealer to sell in just a 10-minute window in order to hit their sales goal or not come back. And it was a consignment deal, which meant we weren't paid for any of it. And whatever sold we got paid for, but whatever didn't sell would get shipped back to us. So, it's like never as an entrepreneur, never accept a purchase order you can't afford to lose. But at this point, we were like out of options. And it just felt like, you know what, let's just go allin. So, we said yes. We applied for SBA loans. And I think the first 22 banks said no. Bank number 23 gave us an SBA loan to cover just the manufacturing costs of those 6,000 units. And so, literally everything was on the line. I flew out to QVC a week early and you know how a lot of times athletes will envision

1:03:25 themselves on the podium or landing the triple axle or scoring the touchdown like you have you visualize stuff. I flew out there a week early and I sat in this rental car in the parking lot of QVC which is in Pennsylvania and I just started envisioning everything like I was trying to pretend I was an athlete and I was like visualizing everything I could like the soldout sign coming up across the screen. And here's the moment that became hard. We hired third-party consultants that are amazing at helping people succeed selling on television.

1:03:58 And uh they all told me the same thing. They said, "If you're going to have any shot at success, you need to use this type of model," which was the same type of model I'd seen in magazines my whole life. Uh you need to do yourself this way. And I would argue with him. I'd say, "Okay, but that's not why I created the product. And also like what if I just like take my makeup off and show my bright red rosacea on national TV so I can prove live the product works and like I would say like oh my gosh if I'm sitting at home and I am 70 years old or I have hyperpigmentation or or this skin challenge or this skin tone or this skin problem. If I don't see someone that looks like me, how do I know it's going to work for me? And like we would argue and they wanted us to win. They wanted the best for us. They're like, "Listen, this is what you this is the best advice we can give you. Here's what you need to

1:04:46 do." And like, one thing I'll say is, had I realized that if you're ever going to do anything novel or new, or even it's an idea that's been done a million times, but it's your take on it. Of course, experts aren't going to think it's going to work because subconsciously, they only think things are going to work that they've already seen proven work, right? And I didn't know that for a long time. and they mean so well, but they're seeing it, but sub even though a lot of them are visionaries, they're only able to see what you're doing through their own lens of experience. And so, anyways, long story short, I didn't have a chance to do it both ways. It was like everything was on the line. And it's really easy to say, "Oh, I'm going to stick with authenticity and my mission." But then when you're in a moment where everything's on the line and you know you might lose your entire company, it's

1:05:38 really hard to just tune in and trust your gut, right? Put your own gut instinct on a pedestal instead of the expert's advice. And I sat in that car for a week and I stared at the front door of the QVC building. And I knew the next time I walked through those doors, I would either walk out bankrupt or with like my whole life changed. And the more I prayed about it, I would sit there in that car literally crying trying to like like God take this from me cuz it feels so heavy and just tell me what to do. And it came down to a couple things. I imagined who my customer was and I would just kind of imagine who she is watching at home. And for some reason, I kept imagining like a single mom in Nebraska folding laundry who had who was like too busy to remember she mattered and remember she's beautiful and that she's enough. And I just remember this moment where I was like, you know what? I would rather if

1:06:30 she's going to bless me with 5 seconds of her precious time. I would rather have her look up on her TV screen and see me showing real women who look like her, calling them beautiful and meaning it. Even if she buys nothing, I'd rather that happen than like me sell a ton of product and stand for nothing. And so it was like I knew what I had to do, but it doesn't mean it's easy, right? And when the 10-minute clock started, we went live on the air. And by the way, John, when when uh you you probably know this. I didn't know this until I got there.

1:07:00 When the 10-minute clock starts, you don't just get 10 minutes for sure. If you're a minute or two in and you're not selling enough, your clock cuts and it jumps down to two minutes and you just like lost six minutes. And it's the most stressful thing and most high pressure thing, right? because they don't mess around like you hit sales goals or or or that's it, which is any business. But so the 10-minute clock goes up, it's like 9:59, 9:58. I

1:07:28 Jamie, I got to stop you there for a second. I want I want people to realize this. Like your future depends on this moment.

1:07:33 I would love to hear just a little bit of the story between nobody believes me, everybody hates my brand, and $1.9 billion to L'Oreal. Like something in there happened. something went right. Um can you kind of talk about how and when you finally caught traction um and what that little season was like?

1:07:59 So we uh you know no after no after no after no after no and I had entered us in this big beauty be beauty competition. And it's like this uh it's called CEW Beauty Awards and it's in New York City and I uh it was you know there's six so imagine this huge like uh exhibition center. Sure.

1:08:21 And there's six there were 6,000 women walking this the floor that are part of this organization and all the beauty companies from around the world are all there and it's once a year and you get a three-foot booth, right? and all the big products that launch all year long, all these companies enter their product in an award. Um, the hope of being there is that all the 6,000 women walk in the floors, vote your product to win one of the awards. In my case, that would have meant like, oh, maybe some of the stores will take me in or maybe I'll get press.

1:08:50 And so, we're down to like literally almost no money left. And I had entered this competition a while back, you know, entered this annual thing. So, I'm there. I I'm I'm at my three-foot table. you're not allowed to leave your three-foot table and you're supposed to just demonstrate your product over and over and over for all of the the people walking by. So, I'm there and all of a sudden I see QVC has this giant giant booth there in person. I had never met anyone in person, right? And they've been telling me no for three years. Alan Burke says you're not the right fit, all that. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, if I can just like sneak away and meet someone, maybe that will help." Right?

1:09:27 And I'm sitting there like kind of disassociating myself from what's actually happening. So, all these women are walking by and I'm like talking and talking about the product and I'm not paying attention. I'm really just focused on how can I get to that QVC booth without getting kicked out because you're not allowed to. So, I'm like praying for the right words. I'm praying for the right timing. I keep trying to sneak away and then the buyers are mobbed over there. So, they go back to my booth and

1:09:51 eventually I I I get over there. I talked to a buyer at QVC. Um, she knew who I was based on the not me but the company name because she'd gotten a million samples over the years. And I was like, you know, I think your customers would love our I just pour my heart out to her. She gave me her card and said, um, let's set up a meeting sometime. And I thanked her. I went back to my booth. Now, in that moment, I thought,

1:10:16 does she really mean it? Yeah. Is this just a courtesy? Like, here's my card. Totally. So, I'm I'm back there now at my booth continuing demonstrating the product over and over was our concealer by by under eye and I'm demonstrating over and over and over and uh uh still not paying attention really not present because I'm now re re you know replaying everything I wish I would have just said and all that.

1:10:38 Sure. All of a sudden a woman comes up to me and she introduces herself and she says um hello my name is Miss Lisa Mason. I'm a QVC show host. She'd been a show host for 17 years. I didn't realize that earlier in the night she had come up to me and I was demonstrating the product with her. I didn't recognize her and I because I was not paying attention and um and I was like, "Oh." And she goes, "I just want to tell you, I think our QVC customers will love your product."

1:11:05 Wow. I looked at her and tears started streaming down my face. I think I freaked her out cuz she didn't know what I knew, which is like a lot of business. Everyone has said no. And I think I think I scared her and she's like, "Oh, sugar, I I don't have any say over the PC like like I just she goes, but I want to let

1:11:22 it's not a contract." Yeah. Yeah. Totally. She goes, "But I want to let you know I I love your product." And I I went up to our head buyer over there and I told her she needs to give you a chance. And I was like, "Thank you."

1:11:35 Totally. Freaked her out. So, long story short, we got a meeting got a meeting with with the the buying team and QVC's over in Pennsylvania. So, I flew out for that. We got a yes. Um, but here's what it meant. And and on and this part of the story, by the way, probably the biggest life lesson, business lesson I learned in the whole journey. Um, we we got a yes. And what it meant was we got one shot to go on QVC live in this 10-minute segment

1:12:05 and uh and we either had to hit their sales goal or or not come back. And here's the context, right? We're we're doing, you know, two to three orders a day on our website.

1:12:16 Yeah. I learned that to hit their sales goal in that 10-minute window, we have to sell over 6,000 units of our product. Over 6,000 units. uh uh or not. And then I learned that the offer is a consignment offer. So what that meant was I wasn't going to get paid for the product yet. I had to figure out how to pay for manufacture, ship in over 6,000 units of our concealer. And then if it didn't sell, uh I would have to take it all back and go for it. Right. So, normally you would never want to say yes to the like there's that saying in business, never accept a purchase order you can't afford to lose and could not afford to lose it. But we also at this point was it was hundreds of nos. And it was like, okay, well, we can do it this way and go bankrupt or we're probably going to go out of business anyway. It was it was that moment.

1:13:14 So, we decided to say yes. Then, we had to figure out how to pay for the inventory. So it was over 20 banks said no for a SBA loan. This tiny bank in California um gave us an SBA loan just for the amount to cover just that the inventory for that one QVC purchase order. So everything was on the line is my point and

1:13:36 we met with third party consultants and this is where the one of the biggest I think and most difficult decisions I've ever faced happened. We met with consultants that said to us uh and they're they're they help so many people sell their product on QVC or in stores and they help a lot of people and they're amazing and they give you the best advice they know and and you know they said to me, "Okay, if you want a shot at at at doing well, here's what you need to do. You need to produce your your segment this way and use this type of model which was all flawless skin."

1:14:08 Like, okay, but like here's my thought. I said, I go, "What if I go on and I have real women?" Like, like, "What if I put a model in her 70s and all different shapes, ages, skin tones, and skin problems?" I go, "What if I take my makeup off and show my bright red rosacea?" And they were mortified at this idea, right? And and and and they're saying like, and we would we would argue about it because I'd say like, "Here's the thing." When we talk about intuition, my intuition said like, "Here's the thing. if I'm sitting at home watching someone show a product and I don't see someone that looks like me

1:14:43 totally how do I know it's going to work for me right and I was like this doesn't make sense that you have one age and one skin tone and one and flawless skin this doesn't and

1:14:55 but they were giving me the best advice they knew they wanted me to win so I was in this spot right like so many of us get in this spot in life where our our guts telling us one thing and then experts are telling us another.

1:15:07 Yeah. Um and I flew out to QVC a week before this this one big shot and I uh got this rental car and it I every single day for a weekend, Jen, I sat in this rental car uh right out front of the QVC building. It's this huge campus and I just watched people walk in and out of the front door and I sat there and prayed and cried and like went through all these scenarios in my head, right? Cuz I was like, "Okay, like cuz it was so much pressure. I knew the next time I walked through those doors, I was going to walk out either bankrupt or, you know, with my whole life changed.

1:15:42 Totally. Like no in between. Yeah. Yeah. And I just thought like, okay. And there were there were moments like I know you can't fake authenticity. I know that. I know viewers are smart. I I knew intuitively that the only way to to succeed was to fully show up, you know, and with with the authentic mission and and why I was doing what I was doing. But oftentimes like we know the right thing to do, but it's also the hardest thing to do. And so there were moments in that car where I struggled with with doubting my own gut. Like I I thought thoughts like, "Okay, well, if I try it their way

1:16:16 and then maybe it works, eventually I'll try it my way." And um I just remember this moment in the car where I was like, "Okay, it was like this big epiphany moment where I was trying to imagine who my customer was and who is going to be watching because QVC is live television shopping channel but it's live to 100 million homes." And I had this moment in the car where I was like, you know, I kept imagining for whatever reason a single mom in Nebraska folding laundry who was so busy that she forgot she mattered and forgot she was beautiful and and I was like, I would rather have her turn on the if she's going to bless me with 3 seconds of her precious time. I would rather have her turn on the television, see me showing real people that look like her and calling them beautiful and meaning it, even if she bought nothing. like I'd rather do that than sell a crapload of product and stand for nothing. And so

1:17:08 like I knew what I had to do, but and I remember um walking in the door of QVC and the I remember walking in the studio. Oh, and by the way, um I learned that you're not even guaranteed your 10 minutes. Like if I went live and all of a sudden it's not going well and we're like a minute or two into the presentation, you might see your clock jump from 8 minutes left down to one minute left like that. And I was like and so it was so much pressure and I I had on double Spanx. I sweat through the double Spanx. I was in this dress course mess. Um because it was just and and the I remember and they paired me paired me with the host who had come up to me that day at the show.

1:17:53 Yeah. And so um thank God because I was a mess and I remember the camera went on and I was shaking like I was trying to do this demonstration on my wrist with um

1:18:04 with like your shaking hand. Yeah. My whole wrist was like Scooby-Doo in the when he sees a ghost. And she like grabbed my hand and put she's like, "Thank you, sugar." And she took over and um they pulled my bare face. I'll never forget my bare face, bright red before shot on national TV. And I I remember going to the models. I didn't know how it was going, but I knew I wasn't cut yet. Yeah.

1:18:26 And I remember going to the models like all ages and shapes and sizes and skin tones and skin challenges and and and calling them beautiful and meaning it. we got down to the last um because remember by this point there were amazing makeup artist brands that are phenomenal and then there was a lot of other beauty brands but no one was going on and just saying like here's my skin challenges and they're beautiful and if you want to you know you know uh uh uh have your you know products that help you look like yourself uh uh in your natural skin you know this works and like it was a totally different thing than what it Um, and I remember we had about a minute left in the presentation and I heard the host say like the tan shade's almost gone, the deep shades almost sold out and I was like freaking out and then right at the 10 minute mark um this giant sold out sign came up across the screen. I start sobbing on national TV

1:19:22 and then they cut they cut from me and go to like Dyson vacuum or something and my husband came run running through the double doors of the QVC studios and I'm like sobbing and I'm like real women have spoken like we're not going bankrupt and I was like and that that one airing turned into five that year right so this is that in between space of hundreds of nos to so that one airring turned into five that year and 101 the next year. And then we did over and still do over 250 live shows a year. And within I think it was four years, we we built the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history. Um and I only share that because it was years of them saying no.

1:20:04 And not just no, but you're not the right fit. Yeah. Yeah. A firm no. Like we've really thought it through. We've all discussed it. It's unanimous. It's a hard no.

1:20:15 Hard no. Yeah. Totally. Yes. You are not the right fit. which really just sounds like someone saying you're not enough over and over and over, right? And and

1:20:24 yeah, but then to have such success in the exact same space is so special. I mean, that is so incredible. That is such a great story. Oh, that is so so then what? LIKE YOU'RE TELLING THIS GREAT STORY. I'm just like listening like you're like I'm at story time.

1:20:42 Um we eventually got a yes from from every single place that had said no. And some of them happened shortly after our QVC success. Others, like in the case of Sephora, took a total of six years of nos to eventually get a yes. And

1:20:57 and so then we c we kept building and building and uh you know, I had this whole dream of trying to shift the the definition of beauty in the beauty industry. And so I was like, we've got to go global. And so out of this this office that finally we finally got it made it out of our living room. We were in a townhouse. Um, and then we made it out of there and got an actual office space and then we started growing and growing and we we grew to over a thousand employees and uh and um and started launching internationals. Like I couldn't believe my own success for a while and I thought at any moment it might come crashing down. So I was working 100hour weeks um for years. Uh, and and I realized like I got to the point where I was addicted to work and and we had tried to have kids for a decade and and I was having miscarriages and all of these things were going on where

1:21:50 my husband and I realized like when when he would call me, I thought it was a work cough when I'd see his name on my phone. Like it it was to the point where work was our whole world. And so

1:22:00 part of I think learning to trust yourself is also learning when to not trust yourself. And we realized right that I I didn't trust myself to not keep working the way my parents did growing up, frankly. And then I I wanted to to try and and change history for myself personally. And and so um and so that was also part of the reason where I'm like, you know what, I think we need to sell the business or or or partner with with someone. we thought about going public, but in that case, you're still running it as well, and it's kind of all on you. And

1:22:33 so, it was a big So, so um so we started taking when I had the that realization, we started taking meetings with L'Oreal and and then they weren't interested for a long time. It was three years of them uh saying no to a potential partnership. Um and back to the rejection as God's protection, by the time they did want a partnership, um so did a lot of other people. Yeah,

1:22:57 it was this moment where all of a sudden L'Oreal wanted to buy the company and so did a lot of others. And so all of a sudden the price was so much higher than what it would have been.

1:23:06 Um and it was kind of like the stars aligned and and uh and so that was um that was 2016. We decided to to partner with them and um and then I stayed on. They made me their first woman to hold a CEO title in their 100 plus year history of any brand.

1:23:20 Oh, I didn't know that. Wow. Yeah, it was a it was a and it was kind of a real cool experience and everyone there is like in couture head to toe and all the right stuff and I in the early years so in the three years they were saying no to us I would feel like should I wear cooler clothes to these meetings

1:23:37 but what I realiz is because we stayed true to who we were like I never started like I was always just maybe odd who you are

1:23:45 compared to who I am compared to their culture but by year three of our meetings part of Why? Because we stayed authentic to who we were. Because we didn't fit in, we were different than the 40 other brands they own. And so because of that, we created something so valuable. You know what I mean? And I think

1:24:04 absolutely know you hear your authenticity is your superpower. And in this case, it was in in every way, shape, and form. Like had we ever start changing who we were to listen to all the advice from the stores telling us no or even some of the advice from L'Oreal over the years and the meetings that ended with no. If we had made those changes that didn't feel authentic to us, we probably never would have been purchased by them for for that much and we probably never would have built a company that lasted.

1:24:29 Do you know what's so funny about that as you're telling that story? I have such a clear memory because when I was, let's see, honestly, I think I was 22. I might have been 23. Um, I went for the very first time. I don't even know if you know what this is. It's it's it's kind of in in a bygone era, but there's this huge conference that traveled around a Christian conference called Women of Faith. I don't know if you ever heard of that or went to it, but it was like an arena conf like an arena tour and I'd never heard of it.

1:25:02 And well, I never heard of it because I think that year was its first or second year. But anyway, it came to the town that I was in and um I didn't know the teachers. All the speakers were older. They were all in their like 60s and 70s and funny and wild and irreverent. Like I didn't know you were allowed to do that and be a Christian. I hadn't seen that version yet. And I didn't know that women could speak like that. I just never seen anything like it. Um I didn't I'd never seen women in kind of having agency over their own faith and gifts as communicators. That was just news to me.

1:25:36 And so anyhow, I remember so I went that first year to Women of Faith at in an arena in Tulsa. And then two years later, I went to another one, another arena. And I remember sitting I was like way up in the nosebleleeds. And I'm 24 maybe at that point. And I remember where I was sitting like to what angle I was facing the stage when I just had this very clear thought like I I I think that I am going to be on the stage with those women which was a absurd thing to think and absolutely absurd. I mean I was um a teacher. I taught fourth grade. I had never even cons I I'd never been in adult work. Um I I was I worked with 10-year-olds and then inside marriage I worked with students and so at our church I just didn't even know I didn't even know women. Anyhow I it was so clear and it persisted. I'm it just hung on for years and then you know eight years later I surprisingly to myself even move into

1:26:47 this space as a writer and as a communicator and then ultimately as a teacher and speaker and so in 2015 their event and so I'd seen them back in 1996 so in 2015 um the organizers of the event got in touch with me and said, "It's the farewell tour. It's the last year of Women of Faith." It had been like 20, it was 20-year run, and we we would love for you to join the tour for its last leg of the race. And I just remember sitting there going, "What in the world?" I mean, I remember remember that thought from 20 years earlier that didn't even make sense. It didn't even have a home. I didn't even have a board to velcro it to. like I didn't I wasn't even in that world. I didn't even know about it. And so I love listening to your story and it's given me such like nostalgia in my own heart um for sometimes the ways that if we're still enough and quiet enough, if we'll listen and trust it, there's a knowing that we

1:27:57 are given maybe 20 years before we need it. Um maybe 20 years before it's even going to ever come to fruition. And yet there it is. And thank you for including that part of your story. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for alluding to it over and over in this interview.

1:28:14 Ladies and gentlemen, rock this house and welcome to the stage K Leman. BABY K Lemo.

1:28:25 Every single one of us has had someone tell us we're not enough. Every single one of us has had someone say words to us that

Questions about this episode

What is "Why You Should Trust Your Gut Instinct | Jamie Kern Lima" about?

The discussion emphasizes the importance of trusting one's gut instinct and inner truth, advocating for self-awareness over blind perseverance. Jamie Kern Lima urges individuals to listen to their innermost feelings and beliefs, as doing so can lead to a more authentic and fulfilling life path.

What is mentioned in this Jamie Kern Lima episode?

9 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Women of Faith, Lisa Mason, Miss Lisa Mason, Peter De Mendes, CEW Beauty Awards, Authenticity is your superpower. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Why You Should Trust Your Gut Instinct | Jamie Kern Lima"?

The episode runs 1 h 29 min; the transcript is about 17,801 words in 174 timestamped sections.

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