Transcript

HEATED DEBATE: Charlie Kirk, the Elites, NASA Moon Landing & Soviet History | Elizabeth Lane • 355

From Julian Dorey · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 58 min · 34,472 words · 632 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "HEATED DEBATE: Charlie Kirk, the Elites, NASA Moon Landing & Soviet History | Elizabeth Lane • 355", an episode of Julian Dorey published November 14, 2025 (2 h 58 min, about 34,472 words). It mentions 77 people, works and ideas, including Georgia, Communism, Joseph Stalin, United States (states), Fascism.

What this episode is about

Elizabeth Lane joins the host for a wide-ranging conversation that touches on her experience moving from Georgia (the country) to the United States, her early interest in politics, and her childhood in acting. The episode also previews the broader topics the pair plan to tackle, including Charlie Kirk, elite institutions, NASA's Moon landing, and Soviet history. The host opens with reflections on his own missteps in the debate, adding a candid, personal tone to the discussion.

Key takeaways

  • Accountability starts at home: owning your country's hypocrisies first keeps you from throwing stones from a glass house.
  • Some stories can't be told on air yet, because the real-world consequences fall on people who never agreed to be part of the show.
  • Elizabeth Lane's case for undivided loyalty: pick one country and commit to it, because double citizenship often means double allegiance.
  • Georgia's ancient Christian heritage and its shared love of freedom and constitutional values make it a nation more Americans should know about.
  • A high-school assignment on JFK sparked a lifelong obsession with politics, proving a single good question can redirect an entire life.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: Fascism, Georgia, Communism, corporate fascism
  2. – 30:00: Communism, Fascism, Barry Seal, Caucasian Mountains
  3. – 45:00: Georgia, Ghost Bed, Ukraine, Israel
  4. – 1:00:00: moon landing, Soviet Union, Communism, Georgia
  5. – 1:15:00: Joseph Stalin, Communism, Georgia, New York, New York
  6. – 1:30:00: United States (states), Joseph Stalin, Prescott Bush, Soviet Union
  7. – 1:45:00: United States (states), Ukraine, Charlie Kirk, Prescott Bush
  8. – 2:00:00: Georgia, Soviet Union, Ukraine, Communism
  9. – 2:15:00: United States (states), Communism
  10. – 2:30:00: Tyler Robinson, Georgia, Bruce Lee, Mike McCoy
  11. – 2:45:00: Charlie Kirk, Tyler Robinson, Andrew Kvette, Mike McCoy
  12. – 2:58:19: Israel, Charlie Kirk, Dave Smith, Candace Owens

Notable quotes from "HEATED DEBATE: Charlie Kirk, the Elites, NASA Moon Landing & Soviet History | Elizabeth Lane • 355"

  • Lot of stuff. I'm sure we'll get into it with all that. But you're from the country, Georgia, like not Atlanta, Georgia.
    about Georgia · at
  • Like about they got like these bright kids in school to do this UN conference so that was my first visit to the United States and as I recall it might have been earlier than that but yeah so UN conference because I was always.
    about United States (states) · at
  • So I think that's a great hybrid just we need to stick with it without becoming corporate fascism which we have became meaning if I'm understanding this correctly where it…
    about Fascism · at
  • Were communists much like Russians. Like I can recognize the signs that it's not communism. It is fascism that we are becoming which is more dangerous in my opinion.
    about Communism · at
  • And she lived communism so she knew what it was like she lived during Kruev she remembered Stalin as a kid like she remembered all of that stuff so I was like tell me a story…
    about Joseph Stalin · at
  • Incredible. But here's what happened just recently. So we are using Ukraine as a proxy right like we're fighting through Ukraine this war with Russia so that we can weaken…
    about Ukraine · at
  • On. It's like one of my forte like u my topics. I can use Russia. I can use Israel if you want. but Israel and Palestine was never my thing as a journalist. So, I usually stay…
    about Israel · at
  • We've proven that with everything. We've proven that with Kennedy. We've proven that with Charlie Kirk. We've proven that with everybody, right?
    about Charlie Kirk · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Joseph Stalin — Person · 20 mentions · first at
  • Charlie Kirk — Person · 9 mentions · first at
  • Tyler Robinson — Person · 7 mentions · first at
    For the Tyler Robinson thing post Charlie Ker because you live out in Salt Lake, right? I live in Salt Lake, which is that, pe people desalt like so.
  • Prescott Bush — Person · 5 mentions · first at
    There you go. So that's why it's more dangerous and that's why Prescott, dear Prescott Bush, almost overthrew Roosevelt in something called the plot.
  • Joe Wilson — Person · 3 mentions · first at
    This party transfers money to a firm in the US that lobbies Joe Wilson like to do whatever they want. So put up if you can go to my axe account and there's an article about it.
  • Elizabeth Lane — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    But Elizabeth Lane, it's great to have you here.
  • Candace Owens — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Defend everything and say it's all real or they say nothing's real at all. You go from [ __ ] Rachel Matto to Candace Owens and there's no in between.
  • Mike McCoy — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Right? And that's great, right? So, he's on it on this like a hawk and recently he had that whole Mike McCoy thing going, right? Like you is this the he was the chief of staff who was on the phone behind it.
  • Dave Smith — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Gone largely right ignored was actually what Dave Smith said.
  • Nikita Khrushchev — Person · 2 mentions
  • Raj Rajaratnam — Person · 2 mentions
  • Alexander the Great — Person · 1 mention · first at
    To pick. Right. So, I'm going through like who would I like? I thought about maybe Alexander the Great. he's still a leader. Great. I stopped at Kennedy.
  • Founding Fathers — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Be some somewhat of a hybrid or it can just be what America was based on. You know when founding fathers got together and figure out okay so maybe the best model is the model…
  • Barry Seal — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Right. Exactly. Barry Seal and all of that. And all of a sudden, I think Clinton number one was too charming. And second, he was just a good little boy for the CIA and then he becomes.
  • John F. Kennedy — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Pretty much everyone in the world including in our own government hated John F. Kennedy and I do agree with you on many fronts that you know John F.
  • Alex Epstein — Person · 1 mention · first at
    One in modern history right now that is the clearest as day thing I've ever seen in my life in Epstein. I just had a guy here who tracked all the phones to the [ __ ] island. it's real.
  • Lee Harvey Oswald — Person · 1 mention · first at
    The opposite side of things too. Like for example, there are people who believe that Kennedy was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald, right? To me, they are a special case. They should…
  • Alan Dulles — Person · 1 mention · first at
    President yes somehow and somehow the grandson became the president yes Alan Dulles was a scumbag who spent the entire war in burn Switzerland very interesting address to have…
  • Bruce Lee — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Learn different perspectives. And it's like it's like the I've cited this a million times. It's like the old Bruce Lee quote. Take what's good, discard what's bad, get on with…
  • Andrew Kvette — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Know, optically speaking here, right, when Andrew Kvette, who was like the producer for Charlie Kirk, went to write out that tweet about talking with the surgeon where he's The surgeon said that.
  • Tucker Carlson — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Would he not be successful if not for Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, and in a way Megan Kelly? Take these three out of the occasion for a second. What would we know today that what Charlie was what?
  • Megan Kelly — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Would he not be successful if not for Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, and in a way Megan Kelly? Take these three out of the occasion for a second. What would we know today that what Charlie was what?
  • Josh Hammer — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Speak at a Turning Point conference where he was debating this other guy I think Josh Hammer is his name who's a pro-Israel guy on stage and that was towards the end of July I want to say and so Dave I believe had never.
  • Elon Musk — Person · 1 mention · first at
    We got to be careful with how we talk about things. There was a tweet I saw today from Elon Musk that is clearly just he's typing quickly on his phone and not thinking about it. I don't want to sit here and like demonize him,.
  • Al Bubba Baker — Person · 1 mention
  • Barbara Bush — Person · 1 mention
  • Bob Simon — Person · 1 mention
  • Boris Yeltsin — Person · 1 mention
  • David Satter — Person · 1 mention
  • Gary Byrne — Person · 1 mention
  • John Kiriakou — Person · 1 mention
  • Larry Fink — Person · 1 mention
  • Rachel Maddow — Person · 1 mention
  • Smedley Butler — Person · 1 mention
  • Young Carol (Yan Carol) — Person · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • Vanguard — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Corporate like in America we have a corporate fascism tell me exactly who rules Black Rockck or Vanguard can you tell me all the names can you tell me these shadowy people behind? No, you can't. You can tell me that, you know.
  • Cracker Barrel — Company · 1 mention · first at
    That was in hot waters recently for like child trafficking Cracker Barrel. Oh sorry Cracker Barrel. That wasn't where I thought that was.
  • Wayfair — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • Black Rock — Company · 1 mention
  • EU — Company · 1 mention
  • National Movement Party — Company · 1 mention
  • NATO — Company · 1 mention
  • Turning Point USA — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • Starlink — Product · 1 mention · first at
    No, he won't. He'll be he'll be sitting playing with the Starlink while people play with it and die down below.
  • PBD — Product · 1 mention
  • Trump Tower Batumi — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Communism — Concept · 22 mentions · first at
  • Fascism — Concept · 11 mentions · first at
  • corporate fascism — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
    So I think that's a great hybrid just we need to stick with it without becoming corporate fascism which we have became meaning if I'm understanding this correctly where it…
  • moon landing — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
    Know development all of that. Like I mean they were the ones who went to space. We faked the moon landing and all.
  • red line — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Propaganda perspective doesn't case but you know Krushchev and him had that famous red line that they actually talked on and they actually had some sort of I wouldn't call it a…
  • UN conference — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    First time? first time it was through it's so funny well first time I went through UN conference I think it was like about they got like these bright kids in school to do this UN conference so that was my first visit to the United States.
  • Greeks — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Don't believe in full democracy. It didn't work out obviously for Greeks, right? I believe that it can be some somewhat of a hybrid or it can just be what America was based on.…
  • Rose Revolution — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Country and the people that they can control. They did the same thing with Sakash really in Georgia like 2003 rose revolution. So they own everything, right? Mhm.
  • secret societies — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    President I don't know we have to check first and the only president who ever mentioned secret societies and how there is no place for secret societies in a free country and free world.
  • Charlie Kirk assassination — Concept · 1 mention
  • CIA privatization — Concept · 1 mention
  • Kennedy assassination — Concept · 1 mention
  • military-industrial complex — Concept · 1 mention
  • The Business Plot — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • Georgia — Place · 24 mentions · first at
  • United States (states) — Place · 16 mentions · first at
  • Soviet Union — Place · 10 mentions · first at
    I gathered so many stories So I know like what life looked like in communism and in Soviet Union even though I was never part of it because when I was born it kind of got…
  • Ukraine — Place · 8 mentions · first at
  • Israel — Place · 8 mentions · first at
  • New York, New York — Place · 5 mentions · first at
    Therefore a rando can rent a city bike, drive down 57 street and merk a guy at 6 a.m. in the street of New York because of the job position he has. The pre I understand your anger at the industry.
  • Hickory Hill — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Me anything about Kennedys, I can tell you everything. Like the their villa, Hickory Hill, that they used to like gather and play football and I know everything, right? I fell in love with the ideologies this man had. And I was like,.
  • Caucasian Mountains — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Big. Okay. Like in Caucasian, by the way, word Caucasian comes from my people. Like Caucasian mountains. What is that? Where is that in Georgia? So Caucasian comes from the…
  • Sri Lanka — Place · 1 mention · first at
    A friend I'll use an example of a friend of mine, Raj Rajaratna, okay? He was an immigrant. He's from Sri Lanka. came to this country to Sri Lanka. Yes, I would agree.
  • China — Place · 1 mention
  • Dubai — Place · 1 mention
  • Mena, Arkansas — Place · 1 mention
  • Salt Lake City — Place · 1 mention
  • United Arab Emirates — Place · 1 mention
  • Utah — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

  • Ghost Bed — Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Foundation for focus, energy, and recovery. And of course, that's where Ghost Bed comes in. The team behind Ghost Bed has been making mattresses for over 20 years, and they…
  • Mizen and Main — Sponsor · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

I think I think today and by the way I I think Elizabeth I just want to respond to some of this because there's a there's a lot you just put out there. I think today in this discussion so far however far we are in you know maybe like an hour 50 minutes or something.

I think that I'm going to look at this tape and see a [ __ ] ton of mistakes in how to handle certain things that I have made on my end. This has not been a good day for me. But that's not your fault. That's my fault.

I think it was an amazing day for you. What are you talking about? I I don't I don't I I think there's I think there were a couple times where I jumped the gun on your argument that wasn't fair to you. And I also think there were multiple times where there are hypocrisies within my own country that I know in my head that I didn't lead with out front that should be led with so that if you're going to make a point, you don't throw a stone from a glass house. And I'm sure people are going to let me hear it on that and I understand that

basically just had like a movie happen behind the scenes with that whole story. I wish we could tell that on air.

One day. One day. How like one day like tomorrow, next week? What are we thinking? about uh what's a one person's lifespan like 60 or 70.

All right, that's not going to work. No, that's that sounded like a [ __ ] you know Steen Spielberg movie going on there. But

one day it's just you know the the consequences, right? Like you say something and it's not a up to me. I mean I can say it like right now but then other people are involved so their lives will be in danger.

Oh worried about the other end of it. I got you. Yes. Yeah. Not me. Like I don't care about like I did nothing wrong. Right. And you're here. Yeah. So that works. But

so for him, right? It will be not a good case. Yeah. That would be a a long journey home,

right? Right. I got you. People don't know what we're talking about today. Sorry.

But Elizabeth Lane, it's great to have you here. Thank you for inviting me. Of course. You have mutual friend John Kiryaku. So John's guy, Simon, had hit me up and I was like, "Yeah, I've been seeing

this is this girl's going to Charlie Kurt shooters trial, like actually like in the courthouse and stuff." So I'm like, I I would love to talk with you about that today. But you cover a whole lot of stuff. I'm sure we'll get into it with all that. But you're from the country, Georgia, like not Atlanta, Georgia.

I always say I'm from the US, but I was born in Georgia. Yeah. So you you really you don't [ __ ] with Georgia anymore.

Uh I love the country. It's just it's not my country anymore, you know. So, and I would like to see this happen more in the US when people have double citizenships and they have double loyalties and so on. Like, pick one country and be loyal to them.

Well, you've lived that. So, yeah. I mean, you you have credibility to say that for sure.

Is did you feel Well, let's start here. You were born in Georgia. Yes. Not from there, but that sounds like a bit of a copout, but you know, whatever. No, I mean you can say I'm from Georgia. I'm proud of Georgians. Like it's a great country. It's a ancient country. Second Christian country in the world, right? So people don't know that they are predominantly Christian. They are very similar to Russian in a way. In a way, but they are not Slavs. So um it's a great country. It it is truly a great country. They share a lot with Americans. They, you know, love to to uh freedom and constitution and all of that. They share that with with the American people. But it just not never was my culture. So I was born there. I moved to the US. I found my people, my country, home. So this

How how old were you when you came to the US? I think the first time I moved Well, first time I visited you was I think I was 17.

Okay. So you spent your whole childhood in Georgia. Yeah. Yeah. I spent my childhood high school in Georgia and so on. So I knew a lot about the country.

Why did you come to the US to visit the first time? Uh first time it was through it's so funny um well first time I went through UN conference I think it was like about uh they got like these bright kids in school to do this UN conference so that was my first visit to the United States

and as I recall it might have been earlier than that but yeah so UN conference because I was always interested in politics I did a radio show back home so

as a teenager. Yeah. What was the radio show about politics? No, radio show was like cheesy weird stuff like just talking about relationships and you know things like that but uh my interest was always politics

even when I was acting I acted like all throughout my childhood. Oh you were acting as a child.

Yes. Yes. So did you have like Hollywood dreams or Yes I did actually. It's funny like everyone asks me like did you move because of Hollywood and I kind of give into it and say sure yes I did but reality is no I actually moved for a completely different reason which sounds stupid and funny but when you think about it it's not really stupid and funny so in high school I got an assignment okay so I was supposed to pick a president any president or a leader of the country

that I thought did something exceptional and then write about his character like what he left his legacy and so on. And I was like, "Okay, I don't know who to pick." Right. So, I'm going through like who would I like? I thought about maybe Alexander the Great. I mean, he's still a leader. Great. I stopped at Kennedy.

Yeah. I knew where that was going. Right. And uh I was like going through his life, listening to every speech that I could find.

Pull that mic in just a little bit, Elizabeth. You're good. So, going through like everything that I could find about this guy. I mean, ask me anything about Kennedys, I can tell you everything. Like the their villa, Hickory Hill, that they used to like gather and play football and I know everything, right? I fell in love with the ideologies this man had. And I was like,

whatever this guy is about, I want to be part of. And that was when I decided I want to be part of the United States and everything it is about. Unfortunately, we are no longer about those things, but I believe we can go back to it. I think some people in power are no longer about those things. I think a lot of people here are about those things. What types of on a broad 30,000 foot kind of view though, what types of ideologies about Kennedy specifically stood out to you?

I think first and foremost he was for people. He believed that you can give power to people and they can determine what the course of the country should be. M

and which is actually opposite of what elites believe, right? Like they believe that no, you got to be controlled. We have to like what Larry thinking said was uh force the behavior. Remember that like so I don't believe that. I also don't believe in full democracy. It didn't work out obviously for for Greeks, right? I believe that it it can be some somewhat of a hybrid or it can just be what America was based on. You know when founding fathers got together and figure out okay so maybe the best model is the model that we are creating here for people to you know kind of have a say in what they want to be and how they want to be by giving them freedom of speech by giving them freedom of religion all of that

right but at the same time America is a kind of a bureaucracy right so bureaucracy is not full freedom it cannot possibly be so I think that's a great hybrid just we need to stick with it without becoming corporate fascism which we have became

meaning if I'm understanding this correctly where it remains or should remain purely like a mix of democratic and republic principles.

Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. I got you. Well, what do you think? I would agree with with that the way I just put it. I I I want to make sure I unpack what you said later on on some of that because there was a lot there. But the idea that like you have a mix of

that like pure democracy is where technically every single thing ever is voted on. You can't take a [ __ ] without a decision being made. That obviously wouldn't be possible to have. But when you have people making a decision on your behalf, and I'm getting a little beyond democracy and republic pure definitions here, but like when you have people that you select democratically to make some decisions on your behalf that are in line with what you elect, which is how it's mostly supposed to work

and it hasn't worked out very recently, but you know that in that system to me is a pure system.

To your point, I think we have had a bastardization of it. And I think the last thing you said is actually a really important part which is that you have, you know, this kind of corporate matrix where one feeds the other. I've always I've brought this up. I'd love to get your thoughts on this, but

I call it uh corporate fascism and I hear and tell me what you think about this too because I hear us is becoming commi communist commi come like no it's not it's becoming fascist. It's absolutely becoming fascist. And there's a huge distinction between these two.

And from someone who comes from a commie country which was Georgia, right? We were communists much like Russians. Like I can recognize the signs that it's not communism. It is fascism that we are becoming which is more dangerous in my opinion.

What are those signs? Like for example, what's the difference between communism and fascism? We don't have to go like far in deep to it. But do you own your house when you buy it in the US? You kind of do, right? It's your property, but at the same time, yeah, but you're dependent to to even have that house. You're kind of dependent on all these payments and you're paying to who?

Who are you paying to? The government necessarily? No, you're paying to a bank, right? So, you have corporate elites. They're eating you up, which is like pretty much what fascism is, like corporate elites getting together, deciding what's good for what, the state,

right? You don't have that in communism. You can have whatever you want for free, but it doesn't belong to you.

The state in this case is playing the the corporates. Yeah. Like China is a good example.

Exactly. Exactly. So in in communism like my grandma and I grew up more with my grandma than my parents. Like that's another story. Um she lived

a lot of other stories with Elizabeth. She says, "Oh, it's it's it's a lot. That's a whole another one."

So the thing is when I was even like as I remember myself like fiveyear-old, right? I wouldn't go to bed without a story like yeah like I I was like you know staying at my grandma said tell me a story tell me a story and she was like up here like with the stories but she would tell me this like stories from her life right so which was like fascinating and she lived communism so she knew what it was like she lived during Kruev she remembered Stalin as a kid like she remembered all of that stuff so I was like tell me a story tell me a story and I gathered so many stories So I know like what life looked like in communism and in Soviet Union even though I was never part of it because when I was born it kind of got dismantled right in 1991 with Gorbachov and all that that we can talk about as well. Freaking idiot Gorbachov. So and u

the man who took down the wall he was a complete [ __ ] Took down the wall. So and and caused what caused us to end up exactly where we are today. We can talk about that. I think that was more Yeltson, but go ahead.

Yeah. Well, yes and no. Yes and no. Gorbacho bought into Western promises. It was Gorbacho who was promised that NATO would not, you know, advance an inch. So, who promised exactly like the same people that were were pretty much controlling the CIA, the same elites? What was Baker and Bush? Bush was not a CIA puppet. Not a puppet, but a director. Yeah, he was the CIA. His entire family crafted this agency. You know this really well. Press. Exactly. And the CIA agent tells you that NATO would not advance and you believe him and you uh like make your 20 year plans in the future according to what he says to you. Are you stupid? Like you know what I mean?

I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Like who knows if he actually believed all of it though because unfortunately with the politicians and this is just how it is for better or worse, usually worse. It's one thing what they tell us and it's another thing what they say behind the scenes.

But he acted as if he did. Right. So he he pro put down the wall. He allowed the unification. Uh and then he continued the course as if he believed. I don't know if he actually believed or not, but look at his actions. That's how I don't care what you say to me if you're doing the opposite. Right? So your actions speak louder than your words. And seems to me that Gorbachev actually believed in it. And Yelson became a puppet, which we can talk about too. Yelson was such a big puppet of the West that I don't think I've ever seen Russian president more dependent on the elites and Yeah.

He was dependent on something. That man for eight years was was never sober. Never.

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The fact that he was in charge like during the Clinton years too. It's just like imagine being a fly on the wall with the two of them in a room.

So crazy. Clinton like who was a chameleon. Like I I've had what was his name? Gary Gary Burns. I think he wrote a book about it. Former Secret Service agent.

Like he said this guy was a pathological liar. Yeah. No. And he was Yeah. And he was so good at it. He said that if Bill Clinton told me my name was not Gary, I would actually pull up the card to see if it was right. Like that's Bill Clinton. And now pair that with the the drunk, you know, Yeltson who's like, "Oh, Wes, like what? We are friends. Like what are you talking about?" So yeah, they totally bought it.

Yeah. Clinton is one of those guys and I've heard from people that have met him over the years that who didn't like him at all. Hated him.

Yeah. But then they met him and they're like, "Fuck, you can't not like this guy. What the [ __ ]

I don't believe any of that stuff they say about you." Like they go, even if they're like, I'm talking some dudes I've talked to who are like the hardest core Republicans who hated him back then and whatever. And then they'd meet him and they're like, "God damn it, he's a good time." You know, something about that guy. I don't know.

He's very good. Like he's very good. I think that's part of the reason why Bush kind of like put him under his wing, right? This is where people don't connect the dots. Like you understand he was a governor of Arkansas, right? The CIA's drug operation,

right? Where Mina was Yeah. Right. Exactly. Barry Seal and all of that. And all of a sudden, I think Clinton number one was too charming. And second, he was just a good little boy for the CIA and then he becomes

the president. And even though he's Democrat, by the way, which you you would think that a Republican like Bush would not like someone like Bill Clinton, right? Yet he said what? Like he's like my he said like he's like my son or something like that. Really? I wonder how that went went down. Like how what did he do?

They all go to the same steakous on K Street. It's it's a giant like George Carlin said it best and it gets truer every day. It's a giant club and you're not you're not part of it, you know,

and you see people go in there, you know, whether it be a congressman or a senator, you know, even even with Trump like as president who may come in and they may seem like more of an outsider

or whatever and then you see the kind of system y swallow them up. But we got into this because we were talking about communism and fascism. I don't want to get off that because it's an interesting point. Yeah,

you're you're absolutely correct, by the way, in the clear distinctions in how they carry things out.

Exactly. I overgeneralize in the past and purposely so. I'm okay with it because what they do both have in common is that they're both totalitarian. They both they both seize control. So, absolutely. I've always looked at it like communists hate fascists. That's that's a historical thing, but they hate each other because they see each other in themselves. Even if it's like you do it with this or you do it with that,

it's also competition, right? Like they both want to be on top and it's like well

they are in competition and they're exactly alike in terms of what they see the future should look like, right?

So it's scary. Yeah. But I always thought honestly that fascism was more scary than communism because communism here here's the problem with communism. It it will destroy itself, you know. It will it will get to the point where it will eradicate itself. And that's what happened with Soviet Union. It was not American propaganda. It was it was it imploded from the inside because communism does not work. It doesn't work unless it's a Yeah.

Question on that. So you don't think because that would be the propaganda I'd be okay with if you're trying to like stop communism or something without, you know, overthrowing governments and killing millions of people. You don't think there was some sort of like messaging that the United States was able to get in there to push?

I mean, messaging. Well, yes and no. So, messaging was always there, but I mean, you know, communism did not break down because of American messaging or because of CIA's hard work or something. It broke down because Russian people were never naturally designed to be a communist.

And neither were Georgians. Like I said, how did I start with with when I explained what Georgia was? They are freedom lovers. If you knew Georgian past, I mean these guys are like these big. Okay. Like in Caucasian, by the way, word Caucasian comes from my people. Like Caucasian mountains. What is that? Where is that in Georgia? So Caucasian comes from the word itself from Georgia. So these people managed to survive like through centuries and centuries of wars and invasions and like people are shocked. How are you a nation still?

How? Well, you're telling these people that now they're going to bow down to communism. Like, wrong crowd, bro. You know, so that's what imploded communism, but by itself, it's a faulty ideology, right? It's not going to last. Now, fascism is a little bit of a different case.

Yeah. Why? like it allows elites to flourish and it's not about one dictator like Stalin or you know she or whatever like it allows multiple devils and multiple heads on one dragon right and it's it's really hard to fight I mean look at look at what's going on here you have a corporate like in in America we have a corporate fascism tell me exactly who rules Black Rockck or Vanguard can you tell me all the names can Can you tell me these shadowy people behind? No, you can't. You can tell me that, you know. Yeah. Well, CIA director, CIA director knows nothing. What the CIA director know? Well, take Kennedy's case. Kennedy changed the CIA director. He kicked out Allan Dallas. They killed him anyway.

Right. Allan did it from his Georgetown. Exactly. Because he had loyal goons at the CIA that even director didn't know about.

That's right. So, director is a political appointee. Thank you. And the president here is a four-year employee. Mhm.

There you go. So that's why it's more dangerous and that's why Prescott, dear Prescott Bush, almost overthrew Roosevelt in something called the plot. I'm sure you've heard of it, right? When they tried to over for what? Fascism dictatorship in America. That's right.

Because he knew fascism can last. You're talking about the Smmedley Smidley Butler. Yes.

I'm so I'm I'm here with intellectuals, guys. I don't get this often. Well, it's usual.

I appreciate you calling me an an intellectual. That's one from New Jersey. Put that on the board right there. We got that on tape, right, Bren?

God damn it. That's the one time you're supposed to be rolling. We got Brenon in the studio today doing a little behind the scenes. But yeah, so one of the things I've always talked about, it's just interesting to hear you have it where it's like communism and fascism. Fascism fascisms where the corporates control, communism where the government controls right?

But the same question of like the balance exists here in America. And I've always brought this up cuz it's a really tough answer

where it's like the buck is always going to stop more somewhere. It's just the nature of like physics. When you roll a ball in a room, the room is never perfectly flat. So, one side is going to lean more towards. And it's like I think communism and fascism are amazing examples as to why you don't want the buck stopping with the government, but you also don't want the buck stopping with the quote unquote free market because then it becomes very not free. I agree. Right. So how do you how do you find that equilibrium in America where okay both of these things have to exist.

Okay, there's powerful people in both. There will always be some aspect of that, but at least like the people, the 99% of us are represented,

right? Well, I mean, you're asking a very tough question. I know. And it's really hard to answer because I always thought I I don't know what exactly like your thoughts are when it gets to corporate or government, right? I actually thought I think Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that corporate should have more power. I actually thought that no, I think it should be government. And I'll tell you why I think that because government I can vote in vote out and I can impeach. I cannot vote in or vote out a CEO or a or a shareholder or I cannot impeach them. What I cannot even do is convince people not to buy a search and brand.

They will still go for it when when there's like you know what I mean like there's need for it. And you saw what happened with the what was that company that was um in hot waters recently for like child trafficking

Cracker Barrel. Oh sorry Cracker Barrel. That wasn't where I thought that was. Anyway, the point is the the I I don't remember exactly which company it was, but they got in hot waters and their sales Yeah. were affected like in months or so and that's it. Right.

For child trafficking. Yeah. Something like that. Like either child or sex trafficking. It does. Anyway, the point is

like a company. Can we pull up who that was? Like I think was it Wfair? That's what I was thinking. Was it Valencia?

Wayfair. Wayfairer. People thought they were like shipping kids through. Oh, come on.

I don't know if that's true, but like I'm giving like example, right? So, it's not true.

Yeah, it was bad PR for Oh, I bet it was bad PR. I didn't hear about that. So, like So, what happened is this something like this goes out, right? And it still didn't really affect them. Do you understand what I'm saying?

And like Amazon, everyone knows that Amazon's employees are working like, you know, slaves pretty much.

Diapers because they can't take a [ __ ] bath. There you go. Thank you. So what that stopped Amazon sales like people got all of a sudden very, you know, honorable and said, "We're not going to buy from Amazon anymore." No. So you can't fight corporate world in any way. You can't vote them out. You can't vote them in. You cannot convince people not to buy from them. You can't do that. But what you can do is you can vote in a senator, sorry, congressman. You can vote for your government in or out, right? Like you can change these people. You can impeach a president because you have good guys that you voted for. Like there you have some power. But what power do you have in a corporate world?

I agree with the corporate world part. It just becomes tough on the other end because the corporates pay the politicians that you vote in.

Good point. Well, then you start freaking lobbing. Stop freaking lobbying. Like you stop lobbying.

I would like that there. And this just I I just never could wrap my head around why is lobbying allowed and why is foreign lobbying allowed at all? Like it's it's crazy to me. So stop doing that and you have cleaner version of your government and then the government can regulate the corporate world. You know you you can

what was it? Um I guess what we are trying to say here if it's a hybrid of of government power and corporate world then it can work.

But if one has more power than the other it won't. Yeah. You're talking about equilibrium.

Yeah. Yeah. So but how do you get to that equilibrium? We certainly don't get to it by brainwashing American people to take power government's powers away because that's what corporate world war wants right like that's exactly what they want then they are unregulated now after this crazy guy Luigi Mangion killed this guy the CEO right now they started this narrative well we should hide all the names of corporate CEOs and all that now you can't even get to them and know exactly who they are okay like how is that good How is that good?

You can't lose that battle. It's It's not It This is where, you know, I I'm I'm an optimist with things. I I think we work through things. That doesn't mean you don't have bad times. And And you can't recognize that, though. And And this is where I look at

this certain fragility that we have in society now, where it scares me a little bit because there is such a gap. And let's let's call it what it is. What underlies everything we're talking about,

right, is the American dream and to be more specific, economic opportunity now, both still exist in this country, but we can all read charts and you look since the early 1980s, the chart is absolutely clear as day. You see it go like this. Exactly. to where you have a smaller and smaller class that has more and more money and the middle class of America which is where the

American dream of like you know suburban life family white picket fence and a dog and everyone dies happy and doesn't have to worry about their retirement that's where that lives that has shrunk more and more and more and there's a million factors that go into that but I think what that does to society of course is it takes away hope it generates anger and it also then can feed on fear And we are seeing all of those things come together right now to the point that, you know, I don't like the health care system at all. I think it's horrible. By the way, they pay off the whole government, too. So, I think it's it's it's despicable in a lot of ways.

It's a group think problem when you then suddenly have a part of society saying

therefore a rando can rent a city bike, drive down 57 street and merk a guy at 6 a.m. in the street of New York because of the job position he has. The pre I understand your anger at the industry. Don't disagree with that.

The precedent of that and the fact that so many people are like, "Yeah, that's fine." That's a little scary to me. That's very scary. Like it's the again the problem is in people themselves

but they these people have been brain brainwashed by who? The corporations. Yeah. and the CIA there. Why why do we call this military industrial I would add intelligence complex

like from the the days of TV and radio that's what they've been preached like they've been brainwashed so you can't expect and above that they are too busy so that goes back to like do we really have the economy opport economic opportunity as we think we do in this country that's another question right because like compared compared to who? Because the most important thing we need to ask in life is compared to what and compared to who? Because you can say I'm smarter than Elizabeth Lane. Okay. Great. Good comparison. But if you say I'm smart like compared to who?

To Einstein or to me to someone else like may maybe you're dumb compared to Einstein. Right? So that's what I'm saying. Like Americans think that they still got the best in this country of the of the world, but that's not that's not true. That's no longer true.

In in in what ways is that not true? In many ways, there are countries that are much more developed than us. There are countries that are

more developed. Yeah. Like are you talking about like architecture and infrastructure? Anyway, like excuse me like take the US and United Arab Empire and Dubai like what are you talking about when infrastructure like have you been outside in New York like you would get you would get a heart attack and we New York supposed to be the the skyscrapers and all the you know because certainly I don't have that in Utah.

So yeah like more developed in what way? So is your healthcare system in top 20? No.

Mm- Okay. Then education what about that? No, I can argue that even like I travel a lot. Okay, I travel all the time. So travel is needed to understand what's really going on in other countries as well. I could argue that there are countries that even with like day-to-day lives are happier um more well taken care of whether it gets gets to your income uh you know maternity fraternity leave or whatever. So then the question becomes are we like why are we still stating that we are the best?

Like is that like a an illusion of some sorts? Like is that a like I want to be the best so I'm like going to talk about it and it's going to happen or like what what is that?

I think it's an overall average because the things you say right there like I said we have a lot of problems right now and I think if people rest on those laurels that's why it's good for you to point that out. Our education system, our healthare system, our infrastructure.

It's not the only one. These are all absolutely these are all true. When you take the average of everything, even if the world is kind of a piece of [ __ ] right now,

overall I think people could very well make the argument that America is still the best [ __ ] on top of the pile of [ __ ] And it's obviously that's a very pessimistic, cynical way of putting it. But you understand what I'm saying right there. It's like

a friend a friend I I'll use an example of a friend of mine, Raj Rajaratna, okay? He was an immigrant. He's from Sri Lanka. came to this country

to Sri Lanka. Yes, I I would agree. Well, yeah. Yeah. But like meaning he came here when he was young.

Yeah. Highly educated, became became one of the five greatest investors in the world. Long story short,

was given the longest insider trading penalty in American history at the time in 2011 in what I believe now was was a trial where the deck was completely stacked against him, which is not a popular take to have like, oh, this billionaire was actually innocent. I I actually believe he was. And what's amazing is once you learn every single thing that the government did to him and what happened to him,

you know, he then spent ended up spending seven and a half years in prison before getting a home release.

And you would think the guy still got billions of dollars, right? You would think he would throw his middle fingers up to the sky and be like, "Fuck you. [ __ ] the system. [ __ ] all this stuff." And I'll never forget being in a meeting with him about three years ago almost exactly where he was talking about the justice system and things he wanted to improve in it and putting his money where his mouth is by the way which I think is cool.

But very unexpectedly he goes like he was starting to get like a little emotional. He goes, "You know what? This is the best country in the world. I'm so lucky to live here. I was so lucky to come here. I'm so lucky for my family to be here. There are things happening in the country that make me sad that we as pe as as a people need to come together and fix. But there is a reason people don't go in droves to China or Russia all the time or some of these other countries where they don't have some of the base freedoms that we do. And so if I can fix some of those problems to make sure we still have that 20 years from now, then I will put my money where my mouth is and do that. And that always stuck with me because this is a man who's traveled the entire world. He's been to every country. He used to own half the Sri Lankan stock exchange. He knows every continent like the back of his hand. He spent two

months in Africa just for the [ __ ] of it. And like when I hear someone like that having gone through the [ __ ]

that he went through worst of of whatificant over that's where I get the averages and I go, okay, healthcare [ __ ] education. We got some serious issues there. But like when you look at it overall, we're still better, but we should not rest on that laurels and assume that will be the case 10 years from now. And to your point, I think a lot of Americans, a lot of us, I've probably been guilty of it too in the past, sit there a little complacent, like, oh, we'll be fine. You know, it it'll all work out and then you don't look at history and see that every quote unquote empire has fallen.

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Like again I think the US gives you the opportunity to be that 1% if you wanted to. Well, not if you wanted to, but you have the capability if you're a little bit sociopathic, if you're like, you know, if you got all the right things like a cocktail, then then you can probably get there. Other countries cannot give you that. And I would argue the reason they can't give you that are partially our fault too in the US.

I mean, we we overthrow and you know, the the democratically elected leaders, we cause chaos in the world. Like we are the number one terrorist of the world. No doubt about that. And the reason these countries are authoritarian is because they have to be because otherwise they're going to go in a coup or a baton or something like that you know up there. I'm not going to talk about what happened to certain people but like you know like Gaddafi or others right and they know and that's something that no one talks about like I'll give you an a a quick example

of country of Georgia. country in Georgia is the most peaceful. Like, and I can talk about it because I'm from like like I said, I was born in Georgia. I know what it's about. Look at its history and tell me if they ever tried to conquer anyone really

ever. Oh, ever tried to conquer somebody? Yeah. Conquer somebody? No. They they are like they've been conquered a gazillion times. They won the wars. Like, you know, they lost the wars. Like,

I mean, these people have been through everything really. It's fascinating like how they are still alive. How they managed to like have the gene they had like this coding right like without mixing it with that like it's incredible. But here's what what happened just recently. So we are using Ukraine as a proxy right like we we're fighting through Ukraine this war with Russia so that we can weaken Russia and the usual wararmonger [ __ ] that I'm so over with like over and tired. Then we have the CIA working really hard to overthrow Georgian government who says, "I'm not going to get into war. It's not my war. Leave me alone." They threatened the premier minister of Georgia. And this is like uh EU and the US and Brits, right? You know, remember what happened to FTO? FTO got shot

like stay in line, bro, or you will be dead. This is on record that they Yeah. He came out and says, "They threatened to kill me. They they told me, "Remember what happened to FITO? This is a country focused on Georgia." Like, this government is focused on Georgia. They're like, "We want to be great. We want to do all these good things like, you know, reforming education, all of that." What do you want, bro? Like, why do you want to cause a mess there? See, that's what we do. That's what we did in Latin America. Like, what? I I killed Jose Rudolph or Rudos or something. Like, you know, we go in, we overthrow people. Like what happened to Mosadic in Iran?

Why kill a democratically elected leader that only wants to do good [ __ ] for his country? What's the deal?

Well, define good [ __ ] for his country. Well, he wanted to nationalize stuff that that meant that it would be good for the country like oil and other things. And we

nationalize it. Yeah. I mean that's like so so here's what we do. Let me explain something.

Yeah. That would be fascist by definition. So, so when CIA goes um into the countries, they do something called like they want to do privata privatization of of the assets, right? And they usually put it in the hands of very little uh very few people in in the country and the people that they can control. They did the same thing with Sakash really in Georgia like 2003 rose revolution. So they own everything, right? Mhm.

Well, how is that good for the country when it you know your biggest assets don't belong to people? How is that good for the country?

I see what you're saying. But the but the opposite doesn't necessar that's not necessarily good either. Like I don't

So let me say hold two thoughts at the same time. Imagine that. I think the current Iranian regime is [ __ ] insane and who and and a disaster on Hold on. I also think we shouldn't be in any way going out of our way to start a war and overthrow their government, which is just playing right into the hands of the propaganda that wouldn't then be propaganda because it'd be exactly what it looks like. That would make people say, "Well, maybe this isn't so bad. If you really believe that something is wrong, and I do like the Iranian people don't like their government, I agree with them on that." They're going to have to overthrow it themselves or do it.

Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I'm trying to say here. But we don't allow that though. Here's the thing. We don't even overthrow per se the dictatorial governments. Somehow the record is sometimes we do, but if you look at the record of the overthrows that we know about, there are probably plenty we don't know about, but the ones that we know about, I mean, most of them are people who just said, "I'm not going to be your puppet. I'm going to do something for my country." you you might might want to read a book called um

economic Yes. Yes. I saw where you're going with that. Yeah. So like but but it's true though. He's absolutely right. And how do you think that goes down in international politics and here's what people don't understand. Everything you do in other countries backfires and comes back to you. like international policies are very much like a boomerang to our domestic policies, right? I'll explain something. So foreign countries, how do you think they lobby us into action? Like tell me your opinion and then we can take it from there. Like why do you think why do you think that other countries do have an effect on our Congress or Senate?

I would imagine if I'm being very broad with my answer where it's economically feasible for us to continue our you know ability to wield power economically and therefore just in general around the world then you know we'll look at it even if it's actually not going to help with that

we just convince ourselves. So you're saying that like foreign countries lobby you to help me understand foreign countries lobby you to like keep keep the power overseas like that then

they lobby you in a way that makes you think oh you have power over us and we'll do whatever you want. Is that what it is?

No no no no cuz I there's a lot of different countries that could be used as example for this in different context. What I'm trying to I I want to be clear so the people I'm not convoluting people out here. I'm saying that we our bureaucracy is so high on its own supply right?

That when another country Yeah. which is [ __ ] every country around the world at some point asking for a favor.

Couldn't agree more. Minus, you know, probably like China and Russia, but like when another country comes to us asking for a favor, we look at it like fresh meat. Like, ooh, what can we get out of that? And how can we actually like advance our economic interests around the world even if that's not how it's going to end up going down? That's what I mean,

right? I agree. So, I can tell you one example. For example, just recently again like um I'm only using Georgia as an example because I know what's going on. It's like one of my forte like u my my topics. I can use Russia. I can use Israel if you want. Uh but Israel and Palestine was never my thing as a journalist. So, I usually stay away even though I have pretty strong opinions about that too. But um recently country of Georgia put up this um like news article and then they had like a I think short segment in the EMA TV I think where they were saying that opposition party which is Sakashi which was a puppet for the CIA Sakash National Party. We can talk about that too. Like that guy is in incredibly interesting.

Like the guy who was involved in both Georgian revolution and then I would argue that he was a huge figure to what happened to Ukraine. Like a big player in that too. Now he's in prison by the way for the crimes he did with the CIA or without them. I don't care. But anyway, so they put up an article how this party transfers money to a firm in in the US

that lobbies Joe Wilson like uh to do whatever they want. So put up uh if you can go to my axe account and there's an article about it.

So and then in return your your ex account is wild. I'll read through it. I need to get a shower afterwards. Oh [ __ ]

So like I can tell you um I put this article up. I was like they are so going to come after me after this. I don't care. So go to articles or just go down and it's called um

when did you post? It's way down. Go down like September. Uh yeah I think so. What was the article about?

I think it's called an agent or like uh it was about Joe Wilson and taking the money from this firm. Uh, hold on. It's gonna be there. They're foreign agent. Yeah, open that.

Okay. So, in here I explain. Yeah. I in here I explain how the the whole thing went down. What was the firm that got the money and then lobbied Joe Wilson to be like pretty much like say lies like Georgian government stopped building Trump tower in Batumi. what never happened like and and the guy supports the people protesting in the streets against government. So people who want to overthrow the government, he supports them and what they do which is like they break I mean they they broke everything in the city. They went in and um tried to like uh ambush if I correctly recall they tried to break into presidential residence. And this is Joe Wilson, the same dude who said to January 6 people, "How dare you?" Oh, really, Joey? Because if it's against you that American people are coming for, then you don't get to protest and you don't get to break in. But if it's Georgia, yeah, dude, like go overthrow

the government. Like, this is where they fail American people. These double standards that yes, we fuel revolutions. Yes, we overthrow other leaders. Like, and then it backfires on us. And that's the tragedy of this country. We just don't get it. And I think the only president that actually got it was President Kennedy. And this is why he said, "No, like it's just not going to happen this way anymore. Like we're not going to be, you know, giving power to Israel. We're not going to be like overthrowing people overseas. We're just not going to do this [ __ ] anymore." And they killed him.

As simple as I do think it's very well established on record that basically everyone ironically with the exception of

oh my god what the [ __ ] was his name the guy who took over after Stalin oh Kruev

Kruev pretty much everyone in the world including in our own government hated John F. Kennedy and I do agree with you on many fronts that you know John F. Kennedy was a normal human. He had his own flaws as a human, but when it came to being a leader and an ideologue,

right? He had a lot of amazing ideas that today it would be very hard to put him in a political box with that, which I really like about him. Like he was very there's no doubt about it that he was so like pro- American standards. ironically, you know, a scion of like a a a family that probably got their wealth through gotten gains and everything, but like he found a way to kind of break away into his own lane and talk about crazy things like denuclearizing the world, you know, or maybe we shouldn't just overthrow governments because we can, right? Like these are just insane ideas, you know?

Absolutely. And he was against the war. He was like he talked I think the first president I don't know we have to check first and the only president who ever mentioned secret societies and how there is no place for secret societies

in a free country and free world. Yeah. Like the only president. Interesting. Yeah. And I think Kruev called him uh the best president the US ever had or something like that.

That's not helping his case. But yeah, I I I understand that cuz was crazy. He did. He did. I'm saying like from a propaganda perspective doesn't case but you know Krushchev and him had that famous red line that they actually talked on and they actually had some sort of I wouldn't call it a I mean I I wouldn't call it a friendship but they had an understanding with each other

where their relationship even though their politics were obviously different they didn't have a hatred for each other which you know that sometimes I wonder how much that contribut uted to us not blowing up the [ __ ] world.

I agree and we are there right now and unfortunately you know I don't know like see this is this is very interesting. Okay. So, have you ever asked why are you like so hostile with Russians? Like why? Like you can see it as an American thing. Okay. What's up with that? Like why can't we be friends with Russians because they they are very similar to us white Christians. Um they want freedom. They understand freedom. They are very intelligent like when it gets to you know development all of that. Like I mean they they they were the ones who went to space. We faked the moon landing and all.

We did. We did. You think we did? What if I told you a person who's very credible? Very credible. I can't name the person, but I can I can tell you behind the scenes told me that we faked the manding who was like involved in the process sources thing.

I can't I can't go with that. I can't unfortunat I I would agree with you. Listen, listen, I'm openminded. I just

sometimes it does feel like we throw the baby out with the bathwater and because

we see some things as evil in our government, righteously so, we then have to say, you know what, all of it's a lie. There's not one thing we did. And for me with the moon landing, my biggest argument against against people saying we never did it. I'm not saying we definitely did, but

every country in the world, including our closest allies, right, in many cases, would have had a reason to try to disprove that we did that because it was such an achievement on the world stage that they would have been like, "We want to do it first." And nobody did.

I I would argue that they wouldn't give a [ __ ] Why? Why wouldn't they give a [ __ ]

Because the moon for Yeah. Because here's the thing, like Soviets when they went in space, like, "Yeah, that was great." Like that was really, really great. So, uh, but why would achievement like that be a threat to them in any way really? I mean, they can come back and say, "So what? Good job. You landed on the moon. We went um up in space. The first the first dog, first human." Like, I just

It's a big deal walking on another object that is not the Earth. It is a big deal. But I just don't see how it's a threat to them. Like I just don't see it. To me, it would be great. Like

it's a great piece of propaganda. It's an amazing piece of propaganda. Could be. I don't know. Like not I guess I can't see it. I I might be very um subjective on that because I wouldn't be able to like I would be okay another great achievement for humankind. Like this is how I would look at it and not

That's how I would look at it too. But you understand that's not how the masses get fed look at it.

Yes. Yes. It could be. It could be. It's just um yeah it's very hard to believe what they are showing as far as like moonlanding go and then you listen to people who have dissected the case and it's like I don't know but then I do trust the person that I talked to so I don't know like again I don't know but I think that this person is correct so I don't know. Well, that's the thing about that I always try to check myself with because my brain, not just the moon landing, but with anything, my brain can go to it's a lie about something immediately on pretty much everything because sometimes I wonder

if co was obviously there were aspects of it that were a social experiment, but if part of the social experiment was, ooh, let's break people. Let's break them one way or the other. Either they defend everything and say it's all real or they say nothing's real at all. You go from [ __ ] Rachel Matto to Candace Owens and there's no in between.

And so conspiracies are very real. There are many that have been proven. We have one in modern history right now that is the clearest as day thing I've ever seen in my life in Epstein. I just had a guy here who tracked all the phones to the [ __ ] island. I mean, it's real.

It's real. But then we have other ones that people will claim and it's not real. And what it does is it create in my opinion is it creates noise so that if you believe these 10 things, one of them is 100% real and it's bad.

The people that are in charge of that thing can go, "Oh, you're going to listen to them? Look at the other nine things they believe."

Exactly. And I try to be so careful with that. And what I like about my show like in doing this is that I can have on given issues a perspective of you here and then I can have my friend David Sadder here and you guys have some very different opinions. You both have something in common. You've both been on the ground

right over there and and seen this stuff and understand what it is and you just have wildly different perspectives. My job isn't to be like David you're 100% right or Elizabeth you're 100% right. My job is to push back on some things, let you talk on a lot of other stuff, and let everyone else out there kind of decide for themselves and land there. And I would hope that like the nuance gets infected where they go, you know,

I don't agree with David on that. He made a terrible case. You know what, Elizabeth, her case on this was good. Her case on that was not good, maybe. You know what I mean?

And that's exactly what every podcaster, journalist, talk show host should do. Like, let people decide if the case was made here. Yeah. you know, I I think that's the right way to do it. And I agree with you on a conspiracy theory stuff. Like, it's crazy. I mean, the flat earth and this like stupid stuff. But I think that's exactly why it's there. I think you're right. You said something that I always say like when I start investigating the case, I look at the case and I'm like, "Okay, what's noise and what's a real thing here?"

Right? like that noise allows people to get like completely I guess they become you know how do I say this not lost kind of but almost like delusional you know what I mean and that's exactly what certain forces I would say would want because you're delusional you're not

you know cohesive you're you can't make right decisions you're absolutely all over the place and you know people are people there are still people who are on the opposite side of things too. Like for example, there are people who believe that Kennedy was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald, right? To me, they they are a special case. They should be, you know, they should be a study case somewhere. Like it's it's crazy. But um but yeah,

bullets are magic. I don't know if you knew that. Of course. Yeah. Really? We've proven that with everything. We've proven that with Kennedy. We've proven that with Charlie Kirk. We've proven that with everybody, right?

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, it just bothers me like how much misinformation there is like when it gets to the whole like Russia Ukraine war and whole uh you know and the Soviet Union itself though like that's another really like tough case for

Well, let's unpack that. What what what specifically Yeah. Yeah. What what do what do you think is like the

the main calling cards of like we're wrong about this? Every the whole thing. The whole thing.

The whole thing. So they were fascist, not communist even. No, no, no, no. I mean obviously they were communist. Yeah. Of I mean yes of course like I'm talking about um they were communists. They were authoritarian. Okay.

But I feel like most Americans see it as like communism is like one thing, right? I I'm sure you see it too. If I said like what was communist? Like explain to me what was communist communism in in Soviet Union. Explain Soviet Union as an American to me for like

you want me to do that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we already established it was where the government took control of all privatiz. Who government?

What government? The people in charge of the communist government. Who? The revolutionaries.

Okay. Who they changed multiple times? Right. So what how many leaders of communism party and in general Soviet Union do you know? How many leaders? Let's let's

So it started it started with the original revolutionaries. You had Lennon Lenon. Trosky

and then you went to Stalin. Stalin started the programs and hello to more as Andy would say.

Okay. So and then you had him till 53. Cruchef comes in in 53 after Cruf. Who the [ __ ] was in there?

So So you know more than most. Okay. Yeah. So all right let's unbro. So let's unpick that.

Who was Strosky? Where where did it come from? Like, let me let me break this Soviet myth for you real quick.

The Soviet myth? Yeah. All right, break it. So, who was Rodski? Where where was he living before he became this amazing revolutionary who somehow to Mexico? No,

no, he ended up in Mexico. Yes, he got shot. He got killed. Um, so who was where was Trosky? You You want to know where he was?

He wasn't in Georgia, was he? He was here in New York. Oh, he's in New York. Yes, he was here in New York. Isn't that shocking?

You know what else? You know what? Really? You know what else he was doing in New York? So, Trosky was in New York and he was somehow able to have a chauffeer, like a private driver, uh, refrigerator that was a luxury back in the day. Um, and all this like very well off like, you know, style items for a person that wrote for a minuscule weird newspaper once in a while that no one read. Like, doesn't that strike you all? So you're saying he's a communist who lived in nice opulence? Never heard of that before.

Yeah. Well, Trosky, well actually it's well documented. Read the book Bolevik Wall Street and Bolevik Revolution by Anthony Sutton and another one that did a really good documentation. His name escapes me now, but he's a Swiss historian. So they pretty much track where these communists came from and overthrows are and it was bought, paid and funded by the banks in the west. So isn't that funny?

Why would they do that? Exactly. See that's the question. I like I have my theories but I don't know.

What would be your theory? So let's start with that. So this is not based in fact. This is Elizabeth's theory.

So let's start with facts first and then we can move to the theory. Right. So uh Bolevik revolution in the wall street is is a great book to start reading and then I will remember this with historian's name too. So this trackskies I mean it's real fact that Strosky was living in New York and he was getting a a salary and he had a chauffeur and a driver and he had a a refrigerator and all of these items and the question becomes where this guy had the money for all this stuff. Then he goes to conduct a revolution in Russia and he goes through Canada. He gets caught in Nova Scotia again a fact. Okay, we have documentations for it. He gets caught in Nova Scotia with ton of money and they're like, "Where are you going?" And then all of a sudden, Canadian authorities get a go-ahad so that he can pass and they just let him go.

So he ends up with Lennin. Who was Lenin and where was he living? Do you remember? Because he was not

in 1917. Yeah. Before Before he became revolutionary, before he ever entered Russia, where was he? Because he was not living in Russia. He was in Switzerland,

right? So, um, if I correct, he's a Swed Switzerland. So, they sent Lennin and Trosky the same time to Russia with ton of money. Why? Who are these people? Why do they have so much money like they are nobodyies when you look at their background, right? And then they start investing this money in communism and bulcheism, right? So, they gather like this this like-minded people. This is where later on Stalin joins them. Like he's a nobody in the beginning. And that's another thing like most people don't even know who Stalin was. And these historians in the west that come out and blabber a bunch of [ __ ] And I'm like what ground do you have?

What kind of [ __ ] do they blabber? Like a lot of [ __ ] about Stalin that that is not even remotely right.

Like what? I mean we Do you want me to give you a breakdown of So for example? Yeah. Give me a breakdown cuz there's there's well est like I have no doubt let me let me let me let me let me he's from Georgia. Let me let me let me start with this.

I have no doubt that at no point in history when victors have emerged, right? Will you ever see something where the story told is 100% correct? Doesn't exist. Like I stud I study I study the American Revolution like the back of my hand. I'm very glad it happened. I'm very glad they did it. These guys were amazing. There's still 10% of things that sometimes do get written down, just not really talked about that. It's like that was a little [ __ ] up, but like that's that's war.

Exactly. So with Stalin, I have no doubt that there could be pieces where they're like, oh, you know, Stalin made it rain in [ __ ] Africa one day. And like he didn't actually do that. Yeah.

But we are talking about a guy who is documented. I remember talking about this with the Boli when I had him on here. He's got a great YouTube channel. He studies this inside. Now, we're talking about a guy who who is documented to have murdered

millions and millions of people. So, I don't see any nuance with like, oh, well, was Stalin misunderstood. No, he was a [ __ ] who was just very upset about his No. Did you listen to what I said?

What did I say? You said that there's been a lot of lies and propaganda about him. So, I'm getting

Which is true. Which is true. Right. So, and what else did I say? Do you know where Tatskin Lin Lenin lived? You said I don't know where. I told you where this is a fact. You can look it up. Why don't you look it up where he lived? Like it it is it is a fact. So this is where like when you talk about noise comes in. Was Stalin a dictator? Did he kill people? Yeah, of course he did. But was he everything that West told you he was? Absolutely not.

In what in what ways? Many ways. So let's start from here. Do you remember the time when Stalin was Uncle Joe? Really? He was not a murderous dictator then when we were helping him. Oh, okay. Well, okay. So, what changed?

The war the war ended. I I see. War ended and then we wanted all these territories that Soviets got and we wanted to overthrow and dismantle Russia and all of a sudden he became a bad guy. Right.

Right. Right. So to to be to be to be fair though that was all propaganda. They never liked him behind the scenes. FDR [ __ ] hated him.

So of course they did because they all thought he was a because he was absolutely against the globalist elites. And that's the story that no one tells you. So you you don't have good guy and bad guy here. You have bad guys. Okay.

I I understand that, Elizabeth. But I I this is where I got to push back on this. I'm not make put aside like Western leaders being all good. They're not. We We'll come back to that.

But like if Jeffrey Dmer were against the global elites, I'm not going to sit here and say, you know, Jeffrey was misunderstood. Like if you were murdering millions of people,

that's not what I'm saying. You're a scumbag. I don't know what to tell you. So again, like millions of people, exactly how many million like millions of people I and first of all the numbers are not there to support it. That's one. The second, you have to understand the guy to talk about him. Like for example, if you want to talk about Jeffrey Dmer, I personally can't talk about Jeffrey Dummer. I know who he was like in history, but I don't know I don't understand the guy. I can't talk about him because I don't I have not reviewed his case.

He was a bad guy. Great. So, so was Stalin. No one argues that he was a bad guy. But the question is when you have bad and the worst for humanity like what is your choice exactly? So let's talk about Stalin, shall we? What exactly do you know about Stalin? What exactly do you know? You obviously

I mean I've already laid out some of it. Okay. So where where was he born? Georgia. Where?

I don't know where Georgia. Okay. How long he he stayed there? What was his profession? Like do you know anything about the guy? Like

I don't remember. I have studied this in the past off the top of my head like like we're being quizzed in school. I don't remember what he did when he was growing up.

Exactly. So that that's where that's where I have problem like no one really does.

So I'm like when I talk to people they get so upset they because they don't have the information and I'm like we'll give it let's give it. So Stalin grew up by the way he was not Russian in any shape and form. He was not even Slav. He was Georgian.

He's Georgian. Yeah. So he was born in Gory and he wanted to be a priest. So he started as a he he studied to become a priest in a seminary. So his f his mother was super religious and he she believed in like God and she was like you know crazy religious. She's still buried by the way in a pantheon which is like only for holy people. So in Georgia and this is the background that people do not know about Stalin. So he um he he's in Georgia till the like the first marriage and he has a first kid in Georgia and then the wife dies because she was ill and after the pregnancy it kind of got worse and she ended up dying and this is where Stalin decides you know what there must be no God because he was completely and utterly in love with this woman and when this tragedy happens he goes like f this world like there's nothing to it like you know I got to go and find something else for myself because all

these dreams and stuff that he had to become a priest. He wanted to become a priest. He was a poet by the way. He he has a whole book of poetry and all that [ __ ] written. And in that poetry, it's so funny. You read like the the stuff like my little country that is not free or upset o oppressed because of Russia or something like that. this is the guy who wrote this [ __ ] and then becomes the Russian politan emperor or dictator whatever you want to call it right so all of this background is completely in trash no one talks about it in the west it's extremely important because it determines why he did things he did later on don't you think like every everybody's my childhood determines why I'm sitting here right

I think it's very important just like Hitler getting kicked out of art school you know like [ __ ] those people should have let them in we would have saved ourselves

exactly So then something very interesting happens like this is what I like when we talk about communism I always le ask people which communists what era it's it was all very different and that's where they're like kind of something does like you know they they get so confused about it what do you mean like communist okay which ones because they were all different communism in Russia was all different according to who was in charge of them right so Lenin and Tro Trosky. Both of them were traders. They were bought and paid by globalists. That's why Russians hate Trosky. By the way, his last name was not Trosky. He was a Bronstein. He was a Jewish uh descent.

He bought the last name Trosky to assimilate with, you know, the the Slavic names and Poland and Russia and all that. In reality, he was he was Jewish. Um, so was Lenin. So, both of them come in. They have Western money to conduct the the revolution. They kill the Tar. Do you know which star they killed?

Nicholas. Nicholas II. Yes. So Anastasia might have lived. No, she might have. She didn't. She didn't, unfortunately. Do you know how they did it? Like it was so hard.

Oh, they killed him in a basement. They [ __ ] mowed him down. Yeah. It was so heartbreaking. And this is the

And they were related to the British royal family. Yes. Yes. See, like it's very rare that someone knows that. Yeah. Like they were cousins and they completely abandoned the king. It's like Yeah. I think they were in on it. That's why. So there there was no reason to decline him and not accept the Russian royal family in England for you know safe safe house. Like the reason they declined him is because Nicholas started saying [ __ ] like we need to you know we need disarmament. We need world peace. That's him. Like he believed in Renaissance and all that stuff. And you have this ginormous country like Russia with all these resources. Do you have a leader that's pro peace and pro prosperity and pro you know renaissance and all that?

And he's like, "Are you crazy?" And they killed the guy and brought the Bolevik revolution.

And how we know again that it was funded by by the Western elites because there was a Red Cross mission going on which again you can pull up a Red Cross mission if you if you you can find it. Uh Saturn details this in his book. Who was in this Red Cross mission? Why did it happen?

Wait, can you explain the Red Cross mission? Right. Yeah. So they said they needed um so uh people have to understand the Bolsheviks were not that powerful force in the beginning okay no one cared for them like they tried like they multiple times to conduct a revolution they failed they could not conduct a revolution and turns out they needed more money so then Red Cross mission happens in you know in Russia um and the Red Cross was like when they or like when they suggested a mission Red Cross was like wait we don't need a mission in Russia like why are doing this again. And if you look at who participated in that Red Cross mission, like it's all either lawyers, like financeers, bankers, and what they were trying to do is use use Red Cross mission to funnel shitloads of money for the Bolshevik so they could finish the revolution. That's what it was about.

None of this none of this part surprises me. Yeah. So that's why I'm saying like they brought communism on Russia and then they lost the control. exact same scenario like we always do. So you know when they lost the control when Stalin came in power

so Lenin and Trosky Trosky till today is considered as a trader in Russia. Ask yourself why why is he a trader? Why not other like why not Stalin? Why not others?

Why is Trosky a trader? Because he worked for the globalists. That's why he came from New York killed their tar gave bunch of gold by the way. What did communist do? Remember all this Russian gold that was shipped to Europe? Like why? What? They didn't want money. They It's stupid, right? So what happened is Lenny's last words are anybody but Stalin. Why? See, that's where history goes like completely haywire. Right. So anybody but Stalin. Why? Why?

Because he wasn't he wasn't in on their scheme. Exactly. He was he was a random dude from Georgia who had his own devils in the head and he was not part of this one world order [ __ ] and he looked at it and I think I know exactly like I studied Stalin really well

and I had all the right documents for it because I'm from Georgia. I can read Russian. I can read Georgian. You know what I mean? So like I think I know exactly when Stalin learned that this communism like he really believed in it, right? He himself and you can actually determine the time period when he he learns what this [ __ ] is about and he realizes that wait a second Trosky and Lenin they are bought like they they are literally these puppets of the globalists and this might like whatever is going on is might not be real.

So this is where he actively starts to kind of take the power right and and he's like becoming more and more important figure he does really good. He was a very good negotiator. So every time like there was like some hard stuff to negotiate they would send him. This how he advanced in the ranks. Like who was he? Some Georgian from Gory like are you kidding me? Like all of a sudden he became a very important figure. And when he learned that this whole communism was not exactly what he thought because again this is why it's important to know a person's childhood. entire poetry of his is about fairness about like my country being oppressed. So all of a sudden communist whe what do they say everyone's what equal equal even though that's not true right like but that was the message. So this young guy who lives because he was upset because his first wife died and leaves the kid with his very religious by the way mom to to

raise. His name was uh Jacob. Jacob actually not Jacob but Jacob. And um he moves to Russia and all of this stuff that he always dreamed of all of a sudden is presented to him as communism. Like communist can can get you all this stuff, right? No royalty, no oppression, no nothing. And he ends up joining the communist party. But he ends up joining it because he believes in it.

And then he learns that, hold on for a second, much bigger powers are at play here.

And in my opinion, and this is my personal opinion, there's no way to prove it, is that he was

he was not okay with this one world thing that was going on, right? Like he he was like very patriotic, which he was. So I call Stalin's patriotism as a toxic patriotism. Like cuz there there is such a thing as toxic patriotism for sure, right? When you allow

everything and everything is acceptable for your country to to thrive like not everything is acceptable, right? So when you kind of cross every road red line to protect your country, that was Stalin and he was patriotic at first to Georgia and then to Russia,

right? As like Soviet state, soviet republic. So when he learned that what did Stalin do exactly like when he came in power what did he do? He started killing who? Imprisoning and then killing who? The same Bolsheviks that conducted the revolution. Why? Why? Ask yourself

because they we in the west to your point look at communism as one thing. Exactly.

Which is the equivalent of being in the east and looking at Trump and Obama as the same exact person. Makes no sense. Thank you. They're just a part of the same system. Okay. Exactly. And if I if if I

I've I've had so many people come up to me off camera in the past 6 months. It's making me like terrified.

Just taking history and saying, "Oh, there's one thing wrong for therefore dump the whole thing out."

That it's like it it it is actually bothering me. And I thought that's where you were going with him. I will I will I will agree. I will agree with you. So, I apologize for jumping on.

No, no, you're a good I will agree with you that the way that things are, what's the word I'm looking for?

Homogenized altogether is completely wrong. A lot of it is just propaganda. Make it simple for people to digest. There are a lot of nuances here. So, the way you just laid out that case is actually very fair in that it's not saying like, "Hey,

these guys aren't evil and these guys aren't evil." No, they all suck. But like, here's how it happened. Exactly. I understand that. Exactly. So that's what what like is lost on history and

then what contributed to what you said that every Americans like head is filled with like communism just one thing and so on is the propaganda that followed of the globalist network against Stalin and all that because now like two bad guys are fighting for the power, right? So he's he's a toxic patriot who who's like in his head, well I you know what is this glo like what is this globalist [ __ ] going on here right? Like am I going to get anything out of this? Like is Russia going to get anything? No. What Russia was supposed to do is got dismantled into parts, right? Like how would you play Russia in this like one world order? Like where where where where Russia fits nowhere because it's it's super complex geopolitically. It has Muslims, it has Christians, it has multiple diversities like when it gets to genome and and cultures and how they understand themselves. This is why Cheschna is a bomb in Russia, right? And

we're not going to go into it because that's a whole another episode. Like Cheschna is a what?

Bomb is a bomb. Bomb ready to explode. Okay. Like not anymore because Putin knew how to deal with it. But it was a bomb and it did it did explode, right? like you know when when chchan war the whole thing happened because it's a Muslim country in the inside Russia with all these Christians and and above that the different cultures in it right so Putin dealt it dealt with it brilliantly but again it's still a threat right it's still it's it's still very different from everything it's almost like having why not to divert from subject real quick but why are we so afraid of immigration it's the same principle Now you have like you know Muslims in UK praying in entire streets and UK people are coming out and saying like whoa what just happened here? What is going on?

Well guess what that is a constant reality for Russians when it gets to chhatchens right and Russia figured out how to make friends between Christians and Muslims in a way that both chchen uh soldiers right now and Russian soldiers are fighting for Russia. They are not fighting for uh you know Christianity or Muslim or whatever. They are fighting for their land which is Russia and they are equally putting everything they've got into it right and they somehow figured this out that these like differences are no longer quite that distinct anymore. That was again Putin but before that Cheschna was a huge problem and so was many other play different nationalities including Georgia by the way we were part of Russia as well. So you're dealing with this complex Soviet Union entity and how is it going to fit in your one world order and Stalin could see that that not only it's not going to fit they're going

to out me dismantle Russia um like what they did with Ukraine by by the way Trosky was the guy who was saying you know what Ukrainians have the right for self-determination like this was way before like anything Right? That's where this talk started. And then all of a sudden, like there was there there was propaganda against Georgians, too. Like, hey, you're you're this ancient country. Why are you okay with with Russians? Like being under Russians. You you should have the ambitions to get out, right? What does that mean? You're dismantling Russia from the inside, right? Stalin could see that. And he was like, "No, bro. this not going to work because that gonna result in me getting outed as well and all of this that I'm building here. So this is I think where the whole thing went down like when when the Linens and Stalin's like you know clash started and Stalin didn't want Lenin didn't want Stalin to take over he

did it anyway and then what did he do Julian do you remember like there's a word in Georgian and Russian history we call it intelligencia he started killing who the elites

why because he thought they were in on it thank you that was it so yeah the the entire like history is told in such like ugly way when there's like actually actual facts that you can you know look at and tell tell it in the right way. Now next thing about Stalin is uh Stalin second hand was barrier. That was actually Georgian too. That was Barrier gets Barry gets no limelight whatsoever even though he was the true psychopath of the regime. Okay. Barrier was a psychopath. Like he was I think Stalin's motivation was toxic patriotism. He was right in many many things that he did.

He was wrong in many things. But Barrier was a complete psychopath. So, and again like you know take the war. So, World War II happens and that's another weird thing that that I could never understand. So, who really won that war? You are educated enough to know this. Like I can see in our conversation that you know the fact who was most responsible for the war coming to an end.

Russia. Russia threw the most bodies at it. There's no doubt about that. I think the way I've always looked at it is Russia through the bodies, through the military, Britain through the intelligence, and the United States through the push coming into it. I I I think I think there was

Would it be fair would it be fair to say that the biggest uh sacrifice was made on the Russian part

by mathematical numbers? For sure. Absolutely. But I mean again like that's everything like what Russia didn't throw the the intelligence part or like they just left out on that. No they

No they did. I'm saying who had the most weight of like pulling off crazy [ __ ] for each of those. That's how I describe it. It doesn't mean all three didn't didn't play a role. The United States threw a lot of bodies at the problem too.

Actually not comparable. Let me explain. Not to Russia but they hold on hold on hold on hold on. Let's not do this.

Okay. Russia lost way more people. They lost [ __ ] I don't even remember the number at Stalingrad alone. It was significant. I'll tell you what the numbers are. It was civilians. It was the whole bit. I'll tell you what the numbers are. Not to they say therefore the United States lost like a million people.

No, not million. It's actually very very whatever whatever whatever it was. Let's pull it up. Let's

27 million. I can tell you 27 million on Russian part, 200,000 on the US part. I I can break this down for you. What the what were the United States deaths in World War II?

You might be right. I I just I But that's what I'm saying. When we start getting in the game of like discrediting all of it, 47,000, which I'll call that close enough, the same thing.

So, exactly. 27 million, right? But that's that's what I'm saying. Yes, Russia threw significantly more bodies at the problem, but yeah, like we still took losses, too. Just like I don't think I don't think it's acceptable to say like, "Oh, just 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust." Well, how about the 3 million polls? How about the [ __ ] million?

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. That's how I look at it. Exactly. I also like Yeah. So, again,

but we remember how we started this podcast. Compared to what, right? So, would it be fair if we were in the same deal right now and let's say I got everything and you got only 10% and then like very simple thing. Let's say we invented something and I came up with 70% of it and you came up with the rest and you came out and said, "Well, I'm the winner." Like how you I'm the inventor. No, I'm the inventor. You're the helper. Right? So that that's how it is. Now you have to This is what like people don't understand. It does matter.

It matters because when Russians woke up one day, there was no men walking in the street anymore. 27 million they've lost. And what's even worse is that when this war is going on, guess what the elites in the US are doing? Funding Hitler. Yes. And there's again, this is a fact.

When the war was going on, yes. When the war was going on, they know about before the war, but when the war was going on, explain.

Do you want even shocking thing? When the US got into war, they continued funding Hitler.

How so? Union Bank. Uh if we had like your will be back in a minute. So Union Bank, look up Union Bank and uh Bush Prescott Bush, they continued funding Hitler and the FBI had to um actually the government issued uh seize the assets of the bank under enemy of the like Yeah.

Yeah, I know about that. Yeah. Yeah. So, so now think about this for a second. So for the for the Russians at Soviet Union who gave up 27 million men and then there is this propaganda somehow equalizing the effort here whether it's Brits who by the way Churchill says let the let the it's his words let the um I can't quote exact quote but he said something like let the Russians do the the groundwork let let them do the war like okay so so we did do the war right like meaning Georgia Russia and all these all these people my great-grandfather died in that war. So, like I said, it's not the same. I'm sorry, but it's not the same. If anyone really fought that war was Soviet Union and they lost everything for it.

Everything for it. Yes, Britain helped. Yes, allied forces helped. US elites, not the US people, by the way. US people were the the most honorable in this war. Not the elites. elites funded Hitler up until the very end until the bank had to sorry the government had to seize their assets like what is that exactly what kind of you know what I mean

real quick yes Prescott Bush was a scumbag and yes there are people like became the president yes somehow and somehow the grandson became the president

yes Alan Dulles was a scumbag who spent the entire war in burn Switzerland very interesting address to have during the war yes there are people like that that that were that case. But when we start saying and generalizing, it's the same sin as when people generalize all Russians or something, you know, and throw it in with

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me make this point. Okay. When you generalize that, right,

and you there say you therefore say the entire United are insinuating. But hold on. When you say the elites, all of them, they were funding Hitler. They were funding Hitler the whole time. 99.99% of them in the United States were not. Prescott Bush should have been put on trial for treason, found guilty by a jury of his peers, and executed. I don't even believe in the death penalty, but I'd make an exception right there.

I agree. That is one guy. There were a hold on there were a handful of other people. But to then make that insinuation that therefore the entire United States government- which is which is what that argument gets to. It's like a slippery slope. Therefore they all supported it.

I know that's not what you said but you have to understand when you say the elites they you said something like the elites they were all funding Hitler.

No that's not the case. Okay. So Davidson Bush and all these people are the same elites that drive the government and drove the government later. How do you think? You ask the great great question like okay so his son and grandson became how exactly if it's just one guy and all the other ones you're so innocent like they are stupid or something like how exactly did Bush do that explain to me who was Ache who was Alan Dallas who was Averil Harman who was a magnet by the way you know who else funded Hitler Harman because he was a partner with Bush. So explain to me if it was just one guy, how did he get away with not going to prison and getting executed? Because I'll tell you something right now. If I was that one guy and I secretly funded Hitler while my country, I I would like they would slip my throat. Like rest of them, why didn't they do that? How would

a powerful guy and a powerful position? Just one guy is the powerful guy and rest of them are not.

No, no, no. There there is there is a handful of them that do that and then they find their way into powerful positions and they're scum. And then we have to argue how many then and you like you can't argue exactly what number there is Julian because you don't know and neither do I. But what I know is that an entity that gets away while my country in the is in the war gets away with funding Hitler is a very damn powerful force and is protected by very very many people up on top because otherwise it cannot do what it does and get away and then have a descendant two of them as the president of the United States.

The descendants is a major major issue and I completely agree with that. Yes, I think it's I think it is far more likely that when you have a victory like that with the Allied forces in this way and something like Hitler was stopped, Japan was stopped, too.

You just go through years and years of everyone losing a lot of people, this insane war, everyone's on edge around the world, and now it's over.

Mhm. What you don't want, right, is nuance in any way. Exactly. You want to make sure that, and this is the point I'm really trying to make, you want to make sure that 100% of the narrative is on your side, which is exactly what I was saying 15 minutes ago, when you look at any war, there is always for the victors, if they were in the right overall, there is always that 10% where they did some bad [ __ ]

When you win, that gets covered up. I am not saying that's right. By the way, I think it's completely wrong that Prescott Bush was allowed to continue being Prescott Bush. I think it's wrong that his [ __ ] sperm,

but you just said the plot, right? So, how are you overthrowing the the head like the president of the United States without having a backup plan? So, it's not just one guy. You just mentioned the plot and Midley Butler named ton of them and the names were like not released. Why? So, who who made that decision? You're talking about banking industry. Who else made that decision? So, no, I'm sorry. It was not just the one guy because one guy did not approach a freaking general to say, "Why don't we overthrow Roosevelt tomorrow and make this a Nazi dictatorship?" Okay, he's a mental case. He's going to end up in hospital. If that's one guy, he's not a one guy. And that's what thinking that way got us here. Now, we are under these guys. you know this better than I do because you've been in the US. You grew up in the US, you know, way longer than I have. So now we are under this one guy all all this like shadowy government and

we can't do [ __ ] about it because the first time they did something like that we said oh it's just a one guy don't pay attention to it. It was not a one guy and that's my my big

it is it is absolutely in the context of the situation a handful of people like I was saying it's not just one guy

it's actually multiple but I'm I'm saying when you generalize it to be like therefore the entire government was supporting

No I said hold up you said the elites I'm sorry when you say the all the elites were supporting Hitler they weren't. There were some that were.

Yeah I didn't say all the elites. We can go back but I said I I said the elites which is true then the government by the way I never count government in the elites. So let's make that distinction. Okay. So to me government is absolutely completely different player here. Really you would you would think that Donald Trump is part of the elites. I would argue he's not. Like who who's really like you can't count the government into the elites. Government is manipulated by the elites. We would agree on that. But would you would you say that Donald Trump is part of the elites? No. Right.

That's why we voted for him. We got him in the office to clean the house and so that this would not happen. So let's make that differentiation. We can't just say elites. Okay. That's another thing that kills me. Elites. Okay. Who I can name my sources and I can tell you the investigations I've done. Davidson's for example that never get mentioned. True Davidson that literally single-handedly created um the the Navy reserve that America didn't have. What the heck was Tridy Davidson's job to do so? It was not. But he made his job because he needed a control over military. It's a whole rabbit hole that you know we can go down to but we can't just say much to your point just the elites. No, the government is a different entity. The bankers are different and they are by the way some of them are not even American. Okay, let's start from here.

So when I say that the elite forces, which is true, multiple, not just one, funded Hitler, again, true. They did. So then, now put yourself for a second in Russian shoes for a second. You lost 27 million men against this mad man. And then you find out which they know by the way that the US elites which are bankers and the people who then drive the government and all this all this machine funded the the this madman that killed 27 million of your people. Like sit on that for a second how that feels. And then

you'd be pissed. You would be pissed. I think I think that the same but but I Elizabeth I think the same things that have happened with propaganding with propagandizing us to believe 100% truth and stuff that is not

right is now being thrown completely in the opposite direction carefully and deliberately to turn us in on ourselves to assume that every now I have a lot of problems with like the elite class obviously I try to look at things on a case by case basis so when I hear generalizations on things that make huge claims that can whether or not it's your intention or not but that can be taken as like therefore like

the elites just in general we're all supporting Hitler that again I never said all were supporting Hitler like we we talked about this I understand that but you said like the line was the elites the elites were supporting Hitler. Are we going to talk about that? Like that was the line. And I'm not I don't like being a literalist. I don't like picking apart words and whatever. But we're living in a world now where people are suddenly like saying things like you know what actually

Hitler wasn't the bad guy in World War II. It was really Churchill. It's like it's like dude dude I'm not saying Winston Churchill was a perfect guy. Far from it. far. We could we we could certainly go down that but like we can't

it it sometimes feels like we are in a vortex now postco to believe the o the polar opposite on everything and it really

you said the polar opposite I I don't understand what do you mean why is that so so one narrative is that

Hitler was the worst thing ever he was the only worst thing ever right there everyone had to kill everything

I don't know where you get this narrative that's not my narrative I'm saying the general public narative right now. This is not your narrative. I'm saying this is what the narrative has been in public.

The world had to had to stop him and all that and anything that happened on the way there,

right? Or once we had to get to that point or once we had to do it was absolutely fine right?

That was one narrative, right? That's not 100% right. I don't agree with that. Right. He was a very bad guy. That part's right. But like there were a lot of other things that went into it. By the way, including I just want to lay out this so that we can people can understand where I'm coming from. The other narrative that's now forming is literally the opposite of that.

And it's literally saying, you know, maybe he had a point. And it's like, dude, I don't know why we can't hold multiple thoughts at the same time. So, I get really I and and I'll admit it, and I'm sure people are going to let me know in the comments, and that's absolutely fine. That's why we do this show. We cover all perspectives here. But like I get really really concerned about the SCOP that I think is happening in the other direction now. We've already seen a scop in one direction, but now it is the equal but opposite reaction happening in the other direction where nothing we've ever done is right. Nothing. There's nothing in America that's true. I know that you don't think that's true. But I'm saying that's what a lot of people now think is true. And it concerns me deeply.

Yeah. I don't think a lot of people think that at all. Actually, I think you don't talk to people.

Really? I do. You don't talk to people then? I do. Like I I mean I mean I if if I told you some of the things people come and tell me off the street these days, I'm like

like what? Tell me something something like cuz I I think that's absolute nonsense that what I what I just told you is a really common one I'll get. Yo, you know, actually like dead seriously people walk up to me Winston Churchill was actually the bad guy in World War II. Hitler wasn't as bad as we've been talking.

Okay, that's like flat earth. Okay. No, that's what I think. But I'm saying like this is now something I hear a lot. Elizabeth,

no. No. So again, like but I do I hear it from people from people that I would describe as normal.

I believe that. I believe that that there there again like conspiracies are wild. But again, there's a reason to be like like there's a reason why people are so like everything is a conspiracy. Everything is must be opposite because it's easy. Because it's easy when you don't have to break down the case. You can just well good guy, bad guy. Easy, right? Good guy, bad guy. Well, I was wrong. Okay, well then somebody has to be a bad guy. Why don't we make the the Churchill bad guy? Like it's easy. It's easy to hold that thought. It's very complicated when say actually let me explain. The United States and its people were always the good guys. But they had this very very rotten uh aspect of things which is like banking and elite forces and all of these people that are manipulating many people in the United States. See when you explain that like now you don't have like black and white. You just have people who are

doing their [ __ ] Like again take Roosevelt. I don't blame Roosevelt on a lot of things like in World War II. Like we just talked about what Etches did without him knowing what caused us the Purple Harbor, right? So there are elements which we know shadow government which is today like what happened with Charlie Kirk? If there's no shadow government, why do you not know what happened to Charlie really? There is and there always was. So ignoring that is not going to help you. So unfortunately they are in the US and Britain. Where would you be? Where would you be if you were a guy who's like money hungry and wanted to concord the world? Like we which country would you choose to do it from?

The United States of America. So that's what I'm trying to tell you since I got here. Like it's not that US people are actually there are some some fault of ours as well because we allow this in the US, right? Like we we don't know. We stay ignorant enough or what you said we go crazy on conspiracy theories and we cannot tell the difference and we cannot tell what's real, what's not. That's on us. like no one no one stopped you from doing research. No one stopped you from being smart about these things, right? So yeah, of course there is a responsibility just like in Nazi Germany, Germans were responsible for allowing Hitler to what he did what like Hitler just you know overre like millions of people. No, they did what they did too. So let's be real in the US and take the responsibility we owe to the world which is we have the deep state that goes and operates without our presidents even knowing about it when we

start there then everything is much clearer you know and the roles of what's happening in this country are already defined you know so that's what I'm saying and by not recognizing them and just saying oh well that's you know just one or two people and then nothing we should not pay attention that's not and And and if I misstate that, let me be very clear. I don't think we should not pay attention to that. I just don't want to generalize the whole thing because that's how that is that is the same way that narratives start where they say like, you know, you could insert blank here about Russia and the Russian people or whatever. It's no different.

Exactly. I see it both ways. Which again, like we agree on that. So that's what I'm trying to say and but the issue should be upfront and saying this is exactly what we need to think about. So why did I say how would you feel as a Russian right like because they are not stupid they know this [ __ ] right they they know they understand what's going on and now take despite that by the way despite all that what happened Gorbachov agreed to the terms Russians came to the table they tried to shake our hand what did we do what did we do we broke every agreement on the way not every but many agreements

we did break agreements yeah Why? And not just any agreement, dude. Something that would cause like catastrophic results. Why? Question is why did we need Ukraine? No, we didn't. CIA director himself said strategically it's not important to us. Really? Then why are you meddling there? Why do we have a recording?

Huh? That's a lie. That's not what he thinks at all. Yeah, he did. There was a memo.

No, no, no, no. I'm saying he said that, but I'm saying that's a lie. Like that's not what he actually thinks.

No, of course. Like well, I don't know why he said it. Um I honestly think that he understands that strategically it's not important for him. This is before war. You have to keep in mind like this is where he was an ambassador

even in like but that that's what I'm saying. It's always been important to them. Look at where it is. Like why would the US if you're looking at it from the worst case scenario too, why would they not want and I don't agree with this but why would they not want that as a proxy country effectively? Look at where it's located. It's It's on the scene.

See, that's the problem. Like, that's the thing. Why would they want it? Like, it's not in our best interest for American people. For the elites. Yeah. So, you're thinking like That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. So, I agree with that. Yeah. Of course, because their objective is war and conflict and Yeah. But put put their objective. I don't give a [ __ ] about them. Let's just forget them for a second. American people who we give a [ __ ] about and what this country should be. How is in our best interest what happens in Ukraine and if we have for forces there or not?

Let let me tell you it's not in our interest our interest to make friends with Russia. Imagine for a second that we are on good terms with Russia. You know how many things that can help us with with you have Russia in your orbit means that you can because Russia is not a superpower like you, right? So you're the big dog. You can influence Russia and through Russia you can influence the entire hemisphere on the other side. Why not have Russia as a friend?

I you know when you put it like that it's like put aside personal look pre-war let's actually start there let's let's let's look pre-war before there was actually

you know all kinds of bodies dropping on both sides and all that and funding going on and all that. You don't have to like Putin. I I fully understand that. I've covered that many times before. But

like if you're looking at it strictly strategically and saying, "Well, we're not going to control who's in charge of their country, but we can

you know, let's talk about it like a parasite. You [ __ ] use them for exactly your own needs and allow them to exist in their way." I see where people would make that argument.

Yeah. So you're saying let's use them for our good, right? How are using them for our our own good? How how are you doing that right now with wars?

You're not. You're not. Exactly. That's my point. So why don't we make friends with them?

We we know they can't challenge us in any shape and form. It's just the old kid on the on the schoolyard thing. You're so dug in. You're so dug in already that you're like you can't

you can't say no. You know what? [ __ ] it. Actually, you can because you could, but like psychologically the human condition doesn't let you do that.

I don't know if I agree with that to be honest. Like I don't know because here's the thing. It happened before million times. We did this with freaking Noriega. We did this with everybody. Why can't we do with Russians? Because it's not in best interest of the again elite forces and people who control this country to have peace because if you are friends with Russia, you have what?

You have peace. Yeah. And that's unacceptable. it comes down to that only period.

I think you have a point there. I think that when when you look at when you look at, you know, blatantly announcing like, oh, Black Rockck's going to rebuild Ukraine after this war is over. When you look at the fact that there were multiple opportunities to go to the table and negotiate here, and I agree with you, Zilinski's been outed as as kind of a [ __ ]

Yeah. You know, like the best part is when he's coming and telling us what to do and it's like, buddy, we're we're paying you,

right? You know what I mean? Like I'm all for a country being able to make their own decisions and stuff like that, but when I'm funding your entire thing, which I don't agree with, but we've done it.

Cheat on me. That's what I'm saying. You kidding? We are making the call at that table because we have personally like it. I don't agree with any of it, but I'm saying once you're in that situation, don't sit here and tell me I don't have a vote. My like I'm the chair of the board,

right? You know. Exactly. Exactly. But but they allowed Zilinski who allowed that behavior, Julian.

They allowed Zalinski, they played this puppet so well. They allowed him to think that he's actually Winston Churchill. And when you do that, like it's true, right? And when you do that and you allow that person to actually think that he's going to start behaving like Winston Churchill and then you get what you got, right?

And then Trump came in and slapped him in the face and said, "Boy, you really need to quit thinking like you're Winston Churchill because let me put perspectives in place right now. You're a nobody."

And he was so humiliated. Remember the meeting when Trump and Jade event just rained down on him?

Oh yeah. No, that was prime time TV. Yeah, just crazy. But he kind of woke him up and all of a sudden, did you see the change in behavior? All of a sudden, now he's like everybody's about, oh, Trump and these are the same guys who haveed Trump before he got into the office like Maruta like Maruta who hated Trump with everything he had and all of a sudden Trump is the daddy now, the big daddy, right? Like it's it's pathetic. It's so like you want to throw up when you look at these people, you know?

Yeah. But it's not uh there there's an old line Joe Rogan had that I think is so good and it's so true. He's like, when you look at even being president though,

the people that come in and meet with you, right, they were there before you got there, they're going to be there after you leave and you both [ __ ] know it.

Exactly. And so you wonder like, yeah, I have seen some of that and I'll take what you're talking about with like people having to change up their vibe with Trump on certain things related to that war and stuff like that.

I think that's a positive, but also Mhm. why is it still going on too, right? I mean, I've had I've had people in here who were on the ground there and they're like, "Dude, they're dropping bodies left and right on both sides fighting over 14 yards for two weeks,

right? Why? Why is still going on is actually a good question. I think I have my theories of why it's going on.

What you think? You have to imagine yourself in Putin's place right now. Can you do that? Can you do that? Are you able to? You know, McNamara said that once like the biggest thing about being a politician. Um, and I think he repeated in fog of war, a documentary that everyone should watch. He said you have to be able to put yourself under he said under his under their their skin like you have to become them right that's what he's saying

well think about Putin and his world he comes in power okay and talking about that dark spot in in America that tries to control the world right so these guys made Russia lose territories by made they made a promise hey bring down the all let's rearrange this [ __ ] right? Let's let's uh you know figure out what's going on here. So these guys pretty much helped Soviet Union like be no more. Okay, like in a way it was not their achievements when Soviets got there. It was all Soviets by themselves. They imploded from the inside, but they helped the process of Berlin wall and all that. And Bush came in and did what he did. But here's an interesting thing. What did they do right after that Berlin wall came down?

I can I can tell you what they did. They sent operatives whether it's CIA and MI6 and others in country of Georgia, Ukraine and all these countries that belonged to Russia and they started arming groups that eventually would break off Georgia, Ukraine and other other places from Russia. So now like you're Putin, remember you I'm I'm an American. You're Putin. So you asked answer me as Putin. Okay. So you lived yeling in years where your president was like a a funny puppet to Bill Clinton, right? When he was begging on the phone to Bill Clinton not to bomb Serbia, right? So you watched all that. You were at the KGB. watched all that and

you have this anger in you like how how come a a president of Russia like a huge superpower beg someone else not not to bomb Slavs like what is that by the way right so then you had to take this anger when you came uh in power as a president you have to take this anger and put it in a box and you went over to Bush and said let's be friends and you meant it by the way you even offered why don't Russia become part of NATO? What does that mean? That means like fullon friendship zone here like and Bill Clinton said we got a great idea and next day he comes and actually I've talked to people they said no right

why so he made multiple attempts to be friends with with the Americans with like no like there was no extra like you know what's the catch right like let's be friends dude what is the deal and they said no we don't want you as a friend I'll tell you even Michael Hayden, the psychopath who who was in charge of NSA and NCIA. I mean, can you imagine how many butts you got to kiss to be like the in charge of both? Like one agency is big enough. And he comes out and says, "Well, we didn't care what Russia thought. We didn't give a fuck." Like, he didn't say [ __ ] but we didn't care. He said, "Really? You didn't care that Russia was telling you that, hey, do not jeopardize my national security? Why do you care when England says that? England was the biggest enemy we ever had historically. Why do you care when England says that? Why accept like Israel, England, and not Russia in friendship? What's up with that? Like,

think for a second. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I I don't I think that when you look at the foreign policy of the United States towards Russia just on a diplomatic level since the fall

of the Soviet Union, I don't think there have been a lot of good strokes at all. I I will agree with that 100%. I think that you have forced them into a box such that

Yep. Even if you get people who maybe are objectively bad people, maybe they do some bad [ __ ] to their people,

you are giving them a case to take their foreign policy actions that they do. And it is a great point that you make to put yourself quote unquote under the skin

of a leader, particularly someone that you don't think is good. And you know, I don't think it's bad actually. I know you don't, but no, no, not at all. I used to

I've had someone sit across from me who's had all kinds of friends executed by that guy. So, it's very very I'm pretty sure I I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about and I don't think so. So, I grew up hating Putin unfortunately I admit that I was wrong. Um I grew up in country of Georgia, right? Like I as a kid so and where CIA puppet was the president. So they taught me to hate him. So I hated him because I I was not a journalist. I didn't have the tools I have today. So I hated the guy with everything I had. And then when I became a journalist and I started actually reading stuff and actually understanding putting myself into his skin, I realized that not only this guy is not a bad dude, he's also a really effing good leader of Russia.

Why do you say why? Let's start with the first part. Why? Why is why is he not 1991? Where is Russia?

1991. Yeah. What's happening? Lost broken communism. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of that. So then Russian people are looking for food in in freaking dumpsters.

Cheschna is a growing problem. It's about to explode, which it did, by the way. So um and all of a sudden you you have pathetic president like Yelin.

And then Putin comes in power and not only he takes the country out of the gutter, but he actually gives Russian people pride to be a superpower again. Argue that fact with me. Like argue that. Did that did not happen. Russia is not a third. Yeah. Who else did this? I mean there was no I I I don't I don't disagree with that.

So would you argue that most Russians like Putin? Like I was there. I you know I visited Russia. I know that most majority of Russians support him. Majority of Russians. Is that a fact or not? You say. You tell me.

I would actually believe that's a fact. I I I think there's been some polls that are conducted that are like clearly skewed. But if you're saying when they're like, "Oh, 95% of people support him." That's not the case.

Of course not. There there is never a case of Do I believe it when the data comes out like "Oh 60%."

Yes. Yeah. So So let's agree on basics. Okay. Putin reformed Russia into another superpower, which it was not, by the way, 19. It was it was a mess. It was not super power. Yeah.

So he brought the status of superpower back. He reformed the entire army. There was a and like nothing in 1991. They didn't even they didn't know what they were doing.

Yeah. He reformed the country completely and his people like him. Why is he a bad leader?

H what makes him Where do you want me to start? No, I I asked you like what kind of leader is a is a good leader when he reforms the country. People like him. Part of I think part of being a good leader is also knowing that the system that that you are not bigger than the system and this is a guy who's repeatedly changed the constitution to be able to stay in power of the country

into perpetuity. It's also it's also a guy that and like I say this knowing full well that my country and many countries around the world have done this stuff too. So let me be very clear on that. But he's a guy who came to power blowing up his own apartment buildings in Russia.

That was not a false flag. I'm sorry. If you're talking about it was not I do believe it was I think

I mean it was actually I agree it was a false flag. I'm sorry I mis misspoke. It was a false plague not Vladimir Putin's false plague. If you know the case which I do I can send you an article about it.

All right. So how do you think who else would have done that? Vladimir Putin was D David Sadder was the guy on that. Alexander Lit Vanenko was the other guy and Putin killed him.

He killed him. I know Alexander. I know who he was. He He killed him outside of his country. Poisoned the guy.

Yes. I actually believe that he did kill Liteno. And that's what that's what I'm saying. Why would he Why would he kill the guy who Lit Vanenko was a former FSB?

Yes. Spy who was blow who So there were two guys who were blowing the whistle on on the apartments. One of them is my friend David Sadder who's sat here with me two times before.

He was in the west cuz he's an American. The other one was Alexander Lit Vanenko who was FSB internal. Alexander Lit Vanenko was executed I think it was in London. I I haven't looked at that.

Yes, it was in London. He was poisoned with ponium with pelonium by FSB agents. That is on Vladimir Putin's orders to do that.

Right. the case that D Zero argument with that. Zero. David David runs through the entire case and he's written like eight books. I forget the name of this one, but that there's one of his books. We can pull it up. Defer apartment bombings book.

He makes the full case. He's laid it out with me on episode. How many times I've heard it on the American propagandist too.

I have no doubt. Listen, listen. Hold on. Elizabeth, I have no doubt that there is propaganda against Putin. I have zero doubt about that. I know that if they could blame Putin for someone farting in another country,

I'll make it super easy for you. Let's say he did. Like I I disagree and I'll send you a great work to that goes into detail to who did it and how. But let's say I'll make it super easy for you. Let's say he did it. He conducted a false flag. What was that false flag about? Do you remember?

So the false flag was at a time where what happened was Yeltson had a 1% approval rating and Putin was the number two in charge at towards the end. He had a 1% approval rating as well. Yeltson gets on the phone with Bill Clinton and says, "Hey, I'm going to introduce you to my number two. He's gonna be the next president." Clinton's like, "The [ __ ] are you talking about? You're about to be put on trial by your people after you lose power."

Then the apartments fall down. It then is blamed on the Chhatchhatchins. They start the second Chetchin war. Putin becomes the wartime leader. He moves up the election. Yes. You know, this is this is a democratic leader moving up.

He's a democratic leader. He was never a democratic leader. You understand? You understand what I mean? Like like when the when when the connotation is like he's I shouldn't say democratic, but you understand what I mean. Like it's supposed to be a Democratic election. Okay. I'm sorry I misspoke. But like moves up the election. Why? He's a wartime leader and his and his and his and his polls went up to 55%. Wins the election and basically never gives up power.

Like one plus one plus one. And then when you look at the actual evidence in the towers like

Okay, so here here's the thing. I told you I'll make it super easy for you. Let's say it was the red flag operation. Sorry, a false flag operation, right? Okay, great. So that operation happened so that they could have an excuse to go into Cheschna and start another war. Okay. So the question is was Cheshchan war out looking at now where we are correct way to do things or not because 90 there I'll give you a number too 90% of historians and political analysts would say yes it was because look at Cheschna now. So what he did there, let's say if he did, which I again disagree and I'll send you work to read, but let's say he did that false flag and killed like four people.

It wasn't four people. It was a lot more than four. Okay. So let's say 50. It was more than

even even one is even one is a tragedy, but let's say 50. Okay. So it was hundreds, but yeah,

she ended hundreds. No way. Yeah, it was it was multiple towers. It's not like it's not

Can we do the Russian apartment bombings 1999? There's no way it's hundreds like casualties

like but anyway so he goes into Cheschna that is about to become a huge problem right and I told you

307 307 okay I was wrong about that so let's say the the chchan war if he has not gone and dealt with that right that would become the downfall of the entire region everyone agrees that what Cheschna is today like with complete calm in Cheschna. And yes, some Russians say well kind of he he he won Cheschna by money in a way because he you know puts a lot of money into Cheschna. But the reality is there is no conflict. The reality is the hottest spot was neutralized right that could have caused thousands and thousands more deaths. So now make the analysis as a leader. Okay.

Hund 307 people. Okay. So 307 people versus millions that could follow. You make the choice. Hey, you're Vladimir Putin. Remember, you make the choice.

I think it's the same hypocrisy of things we look at in the US where we've made these choices.

No, no, it's not because you don't really have the enemies. What enemies do you have? Like, okay, so

in the United States, yeah, what what are who's your enemy? Really? Who's your enemy? I mean, we made everyone our enemy, but who was there? Like, was Vietnam your enemy? the the the country that you invaded for like on a lie is that yeah so who was who who was the

tankan was a false flag yeah exactly that's what I'm saying so then the question is what I'm saying then who's attacking you who's who's attacking you who's your enemy

in in that case that was a false flag that we did I what about 911 what about 911 who who attacked you

what about 911 so so with with the apartment bombings it's the same argument that's my point

how is the same argument you have you have west funding church and terrorists which we know is true like they funded not only church and terrorists but you have west funding Georgian terrorists like you know it's going to explode they are putting funding these people are getting stronger and stronger and stronger you're going to allow that these groups to become what aazia became for Georgians are you kidding me like how is that the same case I don't recall anyone funding Vietnamese to attack you I don't think anyone trying to destabilize the United States with militia groups from the inside putting money into it. Did Russia do it? No. So, it's not the same case. I'm sorry. It's not the same case. So, this is a new president who came in in the most complex region. His enemies, by the way, in the CIA and MI6 are using the complexity of the region funding these militia groups. Have you ever heard of

what happened to uh Baselon in the in the school, right? Yeah. Who was that? Was it Was it Russia, too? What was Besselon about? Pull up baseline's numbers for me. Or have you ever heard like theater siege of almost thousand people?

Who was that? What was that about? They blame that one on the chinsions. Thank you. That's all I have to say. So you have enemies funding these groups and you're not supposed to do anything about it. Just let them become Afghanistan because if Russia ever became Afghanistan, we would have a disaster on our hands. Ever. Afghanistan is Afghanistan when Russia such an entity gets to that level which if not for Putin it would have and to answer your question too and why I became from a hater of Putin to actually I understand this guy situation and I actually think that he's a good leader is very simple because yes did he manipulate the constitution to stay in power power yes would you have a better candidate other than him to put the [ __ ] together in Russia and keep the region glued Name one. Name one. And I will say, you know what? F. Putin. He should have gone. If you could give me one candidate

that who could have could have done it. Nobody. Nobody. How do we know it's no one if no one's ever been given the opportunity?

Yeah. They have been given. Alexandre what's his name? The the guy um the opposition.

Noni. Navoni. Yeah. So Ni was given a great opportunity to be the opposer of Putin. Um

in prison now. Yeah. You know why? Why? Who who did he have dealings with? So you think you think he was a full-blown full-blown western

as of course he was Julian. That's the thing. What I will agree with one thing that I will agree with is that he fails in in in conducting like fair how do I say this? What Putin fails in is, and I don't know, maybe he has somebody like after him, but he fails in creating what Yeltson created with Putin. Like, he fails in creating a uh like um an heir to his empire. Like, and I don't know if he has one. People say he has one. I don't know. But the reality is if Putin did not rule Russia for like from Yelin period time to to now we would be in a huge [ __ ] because right now I can tell you I don't have any hope that next Russian leader is going to be as moderate as Putin because you don't know who like what

you don't know who's next in charge. Yeah. Yeah. Like so so would you like look at Putin's persona. every educated economist uh financeier like Jeffrey Saxs for example great example which I I I still don't know why Jeffrey Sax is not advising someone like Trump and we have hawks advising him in the most sens sensitive sit you know situation we are in right now so everyone would agree that Putin had huge restraint for like almost seven years in a row and I would say even more he exercised a huge restraint against us and against Britain of what we've done and how how we manipulated the agreements, walked out of it. Why did we walk out from a anti-missile ballistic treaty? Who forced us to? What was the case exactly?

Right? So again, remember you're Putin. So think like him. Like to him, everything that you did is a betrayal. I came to as a friend. Everything you did is a betrayal. And then your only argument against me as a persona is that when you're not a democratic leader, how can I be

Yeah. You're just a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. So, here's how I dismantle that in two ways. Okay. Number one, how can I ever be democratic leader when you're trying to overthrow me every single time? What I'm supposed to put my my trust in like every random Russian that they they're not going to buy into your propaganda? How can I be a democratic leader? I gave you a Georgian example of things, right? So, that's one. So, let's say your answer is like, well, just be tougher. Just be tougher and don't allow them to overthrow you.

Okay, great. Let's take that. Second, your argument is just be a democratic leader. Aren't we the guys who put dictators everywhere? Like in Latin America, we overthrew the democratic leader Mosadic. He was democratic. Why did we want from him? So, your argument is this. You're a hypocrite. You're a hypocrite if you do that. Now, by the way, I ain't arguing with the fact that America's got a lot of hypocrites in the bureaucracy, including the people that are the loudest about a guy like Vladimir Putin. I have no doubt about that.

So, what we are trying to to work out here like wi with us, me and you, Julian, is very simple.

Is Vladimir Putin a dictator? He has to be. And yes, he is. Yes, he is. He's not a democratic leader. He never argued he was ever. I don't remember Vladimir Putin coming out and arguing, I'm a democratic leader. Look at me. Look at my democracy. He never did. But he also argued that the situation he's in doesn't allow anything else. And it's true. It's true. Explain to me just now what we talked about. How you going to do that? Like no one wants to see more democratic Russia than Russian people. But they also understand what's at stake. You know what I mean? Like that's why they support his their president.

And there was a time when Russia ate it all and did not support the tar and they killed Russian tar and it resulted in bulsheism and communism. And this time they've got his back. They've learned the lesson. You know what I mean?

How do you God there's a lot of directions to go there's a lot of directions to go with that. The the only thing I would say that I can never ever forgive Vladimir Putin as as a person is there was a guy that he could have talked to and and he chose not to and

Nems. Yeah. Yeah. There was a guy killed him 100 yards from the [ __ ] Yes. So this guy I I will say this, Nemov bought our propaganda, the propaganda part, not like he also brought the American bought the American dream which was true, right? But he bought a lot of our propaganda unfortunately and he started talking with the talking points of globalists like if you look at his interviews which I till today I adore him like as a person I liked him a lot. He was he was like just looking into his eyes.

So interesting. You like him and you still adore him. What do you mean? It's just very ador who?

It's like adore them. Yeah, I like him. Yeah. What's wrong with them? There's nothing wrong with him.

Yeah. So, it's just interesting the way that you talk about Putin and then talk about Nemov. That's It's very similar to saying you adore the Red Sox and the Yankees.

I would disagree, but I understand for you disagree. They hated each other. One killed the other.

So So listen, they both wanted the same thing. They both want the best for Russia. They just No, I I'm I'm telling you,

one executed the other. Yes. Cuz he cuz he disagreed with them. So So what do you mean? So

Okay. So again, there's a video of it. Okay. So uh according to your logic then all our leaders all our presidents in the United States how many people they have killed like in

oh I have no doubt we've had some of the then what makes okay then what then what makes nothing that's all so but but but you have to agree though when you when you said oh Elizabeth you have no idea how many times I go out and all these people tell me this stuff because that's the opinion would you disagree that the opinion is that Vladimir Putin is this terrible terrible person when he's not doing anything different than all the American leaders. Like, what is he doing any different? In fact, I would argue he's better than most of our leaders.

Most, not all, but most. I'm not counting Kennedy or Lincoln or any of them. I'm I'm talking about Bush Senior. I'm talking about Bill Clinton. I would argue that he's like three times better than these people put together. What these people do exactly? Because again, you're judging as a personal level. I'm judging as look at everything. He the guy like uh literally dragged his country out of depression, made his country a superpower. His people love him. He he stands for the right principles. No transies, no weird like animal [ __ ] here. Like you do not touch the kids. It's off limits. You do not do that. Like Christianity is our religion. That's we go that. Okay. So then you have Bill Clinton, Bush Senior, and all these people that dismantled American myth. Okay. Would we argue on that? Like literally gutted America. Got into ton of wars. Our economies were handed over by the way handed over the

reigns to the corporate world that we talked about now. So did the completely opposite for opposite for their countries.

How are they better than Putin in any shape and form? Just just just so that I can put this on record. I don't I don't view Bush Cheney as better than Putin at all. At all. In fact, they were able with their GDP and power to cause more damage than than than that is. I I don't I don't disagree with that. I I think we have massive massive problems in our bureaucracy. Yes.

And leadership here today that is on a level that I don't think it's ever been.

Right. I'd like to think that's fixable. And yeah, there there's a there's a lot on the bone that you just said and I'm trying to process this because

I know it's not the most popular thing, right? Like you just but like I I've been doing this a long time and

I'm going to do it for a long time after this and I'm always trying to get better at what I do

and I think that by the way it's crazy to me that you know who named So like you know that how many people don't and I'm like trying to keep his memory alive.

I know all these ones. It's crazy. I I was the guy trying to tell people about Putin in 2016 and and no one [ __ ] listened.

You know, I think I think today and by the way, I I think Elizabeth, I I just want to respond to some of this because there's a there's a lot you just put out there. I think today in this discussion so far, however far we are in, you know, maybe like an hour, 50 minutes or something,

I think that I'm gonna look at this tape and see a [ __ ] ton of mistakes in how to handle certain things that I have made on my end. This has not been a good day for me. But that's not your fault. That's my fault.

I think it was an amazing day for you. What are you talking about? I I don't I don't I I think there's I think there were a couple times where I jumped the gun on your argument that wasn't fair to you. And I also think there were multiple times where there are hypocrisies within my own country that I know in my head that I didn't lead with out front that should be led with so that if you're going to make a point, you don't throw a stone from a glass house. And I'm sure people are going to let me hear it on that and I understand that. I look at these arguments online and I see cuz I like I I I want to stay with this point and have you be able to flesh all this out about Putin. You just did a lot, but there's a lot more on the bone here.

I see two camps that form online. People that say you're either a [ __ ] Put Putin puppet. I've been called that before.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you'll get called it again today. And I'm not saying that that's that that's fair. I'm saying I'm sure you'll get called that. Yeah. And I'm fine with that.

And then you will see people in the other direction, whatever the opposite of that is

that glorify him and [ __ ] like that. Yeah. That's not right either, you know.

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. What the full truth is on [ __ ] anything. None of us do.

I can go off of things that define people as bad and then also live in a world where they are still in power. So I have to deal with that.

Now people, I'll give you another example cuz I think this is an important distinction. Unfortunately, whether you like it or I like it. I certainly don't. Money does run the world.

And when you look at Putin, when they make the comparisons between him and Hitler, that is wrong.

It is wrong. And and I will and I will there's two main reasons for that. He wasn't as bad as Hitler in killing people. I have plenty of problems with Putin in that department, but he was no Hitler. Right.

Secondly, Vladimir Putin's country has a GDP the size of Italy. Whether you like that or not,

right? Germany had the fastest growing GDP in the world. They were taking over countries, breaking every [ __ ] treaty around the world, starting wars on [ __ ] three fronts and eventually four. Like, it was a completely different situation. So, you have to look at that scope. You can say you don't like Putin. You can say you hate that you think he's a murderous psychopath, and I would agree with that. But like you have to understand that he is a he is a piece on the table and you can't just wave your wand and get him out of there as much as you may want to

because you then give him exactly what he wants. You give him saying, "Look, the West is trying to overthrow all of us. They're the people that run the world. They're the bad guy here. I have to be able to kill these people. I have to be able to take down those apartments. I have to be able to [ __ ] start these wars. I have to be able to, you know, and not to say all every war he started. I have to be able to, you know, hold on to power for 25 years because I'm the only guy that can do it. And by the way, someone that would come in would definitely be way worse than me. You give him all the ammunition to do that when you take the diplomatic,

right, actions that have been taken here. I will agree with that. What I do want to say to you just before you respond is that

when this isn't your fault, but seeing as you you're from Georgia, which is not Russia to be clear,

but you're from Georgia, you moved here, that's great. You live here, you renounce your citizenship in Georgia,

you claim to love it here, and that's awesome. People can cherrypick what you say when you are so strong. Like actually I understand Putin and he's a good guy. Like

I'm not even saying this is your fault, but you can play right into the hands of the people who want to discredit you cuz they're like, "Oh, well she's got to be a [ __ ] I have one thing to say. I don't give a [ __ ] You know why? I'm going to say what the truth is and what I know to be the truth." And they can discredit me all day. They've been trying for from the day I did the interview in Georgia, which I'll tell you about. And this is how the system works. I guarantee you there will be ton of comments where I'm racist. I'm a Russian puppet.

Yeah. [ __ ] them. I mean it like look it it's it is people and that's the beauty of the freedom of the internet. People can say whatever they want and they're going to have their opinions. It doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect you. Like you know where your heart is at. You know what it's about. I do feel like sometimes, you know, like the like woke culture was insane on every level. Like you're not allowed to say words, which is just crazy to me.

I I I think I worry that and this isn't this isn't what you're saying, by the way, to be clear. I'm talking about a separate conversation here. But I I always worry about the antidote to anything, right? because sometimes it feels like things are we're being used against ourselves online to draw ourselves into different cultural corners and to notice differences across all different groups and rally around just our group and things like that. And I don't think it I don't think it means like oh people are racist or anything like that. I think we're we're being prayed upon with our worst fears sometimes. And what I what I try to do is like I'm sure I fail sometimes, but like I do my best with this show to be like look at all the different people around the world who are doing cool different [ __ ] I do all different topics. I do all different types of people, all different backgrounds. Like

you ain't got to agree with all of it. You you you don't but you're going to learn different perspectives. And it's like it's like the I've cited this a million times. It's like the old Bruce Lee Lee quote. Take what's good, discard what's bad, get on with your life. You know what I mean? That's that's what I try to do with people and and I think that the judgment that is that is cast automatically where people are assuming the worst intentions is very dystopian and

1984ish sometimes. Exactly right. Do you do you feel like maybe that's intentional or it's just a product of brainwash?

I think it's both. Both. I think there's people who intentionally pull the strings like the puppeteer to do that. And then I think that

I don't think think of the smartest person you know out there, everyone listening,

even the brightest person you know is not not susceptible to being pulled into a cult-like structure or being brainwashed with something. We are all

susceptible to it. Of course, myself included there. Like, you know, I I think that the internet makes that easier than ever. And you have accounts that that aren't even real, that are being wielded by every country, including ours. Yeah.

You know, to create it's it's just a giant like blob of noise propaganda war at all times from every angle. And it's just like,

yep, turn that [ __ ] thing off. Get it out of here. I don't want to know. I don't care. I'll talk with people, meet them where they are, and we'll let it land where it lands. That's kind of how I look at it. You know,

that's how it should be. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's awesome. Can I run to the bathroom real fast? Yes.

Let's get We'll be right back. All right, we're back. So, we actually haven't talked about this yet today, but you've been in, we mentioned at the beginning, we just haven't gone into it. You've been in the courtroom.

Yeah. For the Tyler Robinson thing post Charlie Ker because you live out in Salt Lake,

right? I live in Salt Lake, which is that, you know, pe people desalt like so much. I don't know whether it's like Mormons, they des whatever. I great people. So I I love Salt Lake. It's it's it's so good. But um yeah, I was there. I live there and of course the the very first hearing that I attended, it was so weird. So get this. I thought this is a high-profile case. Would you say it's a high-profile case?

Yeah. Thank you. So would you expect a ton of people to show up? probably, right? Well, that's what I expected. I got there early. I went up and there's maybe like give and take. Obviously, I didn't count, but maybe 20 people there. That's it. Journalists.

This is state court. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, why why are why is it just us? Why is it like like lines of people trying to get in? So, that's awkward.

Yes. But all right, let's move on. Right. We go in. They are like, "No phones, phones in the pocket." I'm like, "Well, I don't have pockets and I don't have, you know, I don't I don't have a a purse. I never have a purse." Like rarely, right? Like, um, sorry, bag. I do have a purse, but I it's small purse. So, I'm like, I have nothing to put this in. So, because the the what they told us was if we see a phone in your hands, you're out.

Why so strict? Is that is that leg that's is that legal? I don't know. Well, I honestly I don't know if it's legal, but well, it's a public trial, right? Like it's a public the the the thing. So, you would think that that should not be a problem. And their excuse was, well, we don't want to make a circus out of it. Like, no filming, no nothing. Okay, no one's filming. Can I just freaking have a phone like on me?

So, I had to like put my phone in between my legs and hide it. What if they saw that I have it in my my hand or something? Right.

Yeah. Now, it's on camera. You admitted it. Uh oh. Uh oh. What are they going to do? like you know

come arrest you. Yeah. F them. So anyway the the point is um I had a so they said you will be ousted right.

I'm sitting there listening the the whole Tyler Robinson persona was weird like the guy never moved. I said this multiple times like he was there like a zombie.

You watch the tape right like the recording dead but behind the eyes completely.

Yeah. So, and he states his name and he's like blah blah blah blah and that's it and nothing else. And within I don't remember exactly what time it was. If I had my phone on me, I would probably know. But

what about that watch right there? Um, this is actually not working. You're like me. Yeah. Yeah. Do you keep the watch if you like it?

The clock out there. It hasn't told the time in [ __ ] forever. It's just there for the world.

It's just there. Yeah. I love how it looks. So, it's there. So um so I I I don't know exactly how long it was but it felt 15 to 20 minutes max of entire thing. So then they take a recess.

This is just the first hearing. First hearing. Yeah. So and by like just being it a first hearing I assumed okay so we're going to break the case. We judge is going to talk like this [ __ ] is going to happen right. Yeah. Like maybe 15 to 20 minutes. That's what it felt like. And then they were like, "Okay, we're taking a recess." I'm like, "What?" Like, "What? What do you mean?" I didn't understand any like

what did they discuss in the 15 20 minutes? Like what was the uh they presented they presented a case. They presented what he was accused of and seemed like I don't remember exact quote, but like this is where we found out that they were going for the death penalty. Right.

So that was it. Like nothing else. He didn't have a lawyer back then. Keep in mind like he didn't have a lawyer at all.

No. So he he they were looking for his lawyer. This is like a very first hearing, right? So he he was in prison all in um uh virtual, right? He was not in person. But another weird thing was there were no relatives of Tyler Robinson.

That part that part surprises me less. You you're thinking don't bring the parents because it will become a spectacle or something.

I think they would want to come. I think they would probably be so Yeah. So, so shell shocked. This is just the first hearing. I I could that one surprises me less. But continue.

Yeah. So, I mean, I I could understand that. And when I spoke to So, I work work with like people Well, I know a lot of former FBI guys. I know a lot of former SEALs, CIA CIA pips, like you know, buckets of them. So, and and they are all the same, by the way. They they all think they are different, but they are all so similar. um like you know sociopathic narcissistic lying all all of this stuff it's there I'm sorry so but anyway um they all said the the people like from FBI former FBI guys that I know I called up uh my detective as well like lead detective NYC uh PPD so I was like would you like what would happen with the parents cuz I'm not aware of this stuff right what what authorities would like to do in these cases like high profile case. So I was like what would you do with the family?

And he was like I'm he said the same thing as you like I'm not surprised they were not there like I would advise against it to go and like sit there. Right? So I get that part even though if I was a mother I would be there. If I was a mother I wouldn't care. I would be there to support my kid.

Right. It's hard to It's really hard for me to put myself in the parent shoes. I can't even imagine. You know this is not long after right

as well. It's like, yeah, maybe you would. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. So, yeah. And what was the most unusual part was the fast recess, right? Why Why are we going to recess again? What's up? Like, why? Give us everything. And then another unusual part was like, "Okay, recess means you're going to continue, right? So, I'm coming back or something." They were like, "No, you're you're free to go." We were like, "What?" M.

So why dismiss journalists and not let them back in? So they conducted more parts of the hearing

as I understand. Yes. Because they said that we're going to take a recess. That means like they they're going to come back, right? So why not include us there?

So they didn't let you back in. And I thought I was like, did I miss hear something like that? So I'm walking with another journalist who was like walking behind me. I was like, so that's it. They are not going to let us back in. And she goes like, yeah. So I'm like, "Okay." So we just I just left.

So yeah, I mean the whole case is weird. I'm pretty sure you know. Um Oh, it's weird. It's weird.

Yeah. So I had Young Carol, a amazing dude by the way. Um who's been on my show.

Oh, he has. Oh, yeah. Yan is awesome. He has a great channel and he's like following this much closer than I am because I took a different route. Yan Yan is following every single video like everything that that

Ian does turn over a lot of rocks, right? And and that's great, right? So, um he's on it on this like a hawk and recently he had that whole Mike McCoy thing going, right? Like you you is this the he was the chief of staff who was on the phone

behind it. Yeah. What's what's a little strange to me is how strong his dad is being about it. His dad wasn't [ __ ] there.

That's that's weird. I think you know the one part about this whole thing cuz it's weird. The whole thing is [ __ ] I mean we'll go we'll go into it, but like

how people react to something like that can vary a lot. You know, the kid I watched the video of him. the kid was on the phone and he just like turned around and then was like walking away and you know maybe it's serreptitious or maybe like he's like what the [ __ ] did I just see and his his body is flighting away from it. What I just found really weird though was how the the dad

Thanks. right like can you tell people what the dad was saying and what the difference was there?

So so the dad really screwed his son over in my opinion because the as I understand Mike McCoy had told I don't remember what outlet but I think it was Washington Post or something like that he told uh them that he was on the call uh with Erica Kirk right so he was talking to Erica Kirk well his father comes out and says within a minute my son called me and he was covered in blood

like I don't know Julian I might be blind but did you see any blood on him unless he I I didn't see him get in the car afterwards. Maybe maybe he did. I don't I don't know.

Well, he was never in the car, right? When when Frank came out and named who was in the car with him.

Oh, yeah. That guy. He didn't name. So, no, Mike was not in the car, as I understand. And he was also when they loaded Charlie in the in the uh car,

he was walking away. Yeah. So, okay. Okay. Let's play devil's advocate. Let's say he was shocked. Okay, he was shocked or or let's say he's a coward. He was shocked and he's a coward and he didn't want to be in the line of the bullet or whatever. Okay, great. Why lie afterwards? Why when everything is safe and Charlie's rushed in a way, Charlie's rushed uh to the car, why not check on him? Why not be rushing there? Why not be helping? So, that's where the case falls apart, right? his own case where he says like, "Well, I was just afraid and you know, I I I needed to get away."

Okay. What after when Charlie's in the car, go check on him. What's up with that?

Dad said, That's what I'm saying. Like, who's lying? I think both of them are. Is it just the dad? Is it both? Is it him?

It's weird no matter what. Oh, for sure. It's weird because either way, his dead story doesn't line up, right? So if if he's talking to his dad, well, like when you look at the footage, he's already on the phone with somebody, right? So he he did not call. Exactly. So he didn't call within a minute. He was already on the phone.

So that's a lie, right? So then you would think that what the the guy didn't hear the gunshot in the in the uh call. Like of course, okay, let's say he's deaf. He's old. He's deaf. He he didn't hear it. Why say within a minute? What what are you winning with that?

Do you think do you think it's possible for that that he when you say like oh within a minute or within 2 minutes it was actually really within three which we don't even have that video his son may have hung up that first call and then called his dad which then also to be fair does not explain oh he was soaked in blood or all this stuff like I again I don't know why the guy

I couldn't figure out why the guy came out and was saying all that. Yeah, because I I think what he wanted to do quite honestly is portray his son as a hero

and he was why like you know what I mean? Good question. So if you were and I'm not saying they are I'm just like hypothetically.

Yeah. If you were a villain what first instinct of yours would be? Project yourself as the hero.

Thank you. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. See, could be. Could be. We could be wrong. We could be one.

There's a lot of things this could be. I mean, I I'm just at a point with it where

Yeah. You know, I do think people are running with things as fact online, which is not good. Like I I had my friend Brian Anton in here. I think that episode will come out like right in front of yours and like he'll get a lot of [ __ ] for how he's reporting on it. But he's just reporting what he sees, right? And he's not going beyond that. And he's also reporting what people are saying. You and I can sit here and be like, I think that guy's lying or whatever. He's not going to do that. That's fine with me. I think that you also have to be very open to the idea as in like almost like kind of assume it

that the story we've been told not to say Tyler Robinson's not involved but the story we've been told oh kid on top shot him 3006 down out over like what faith have we been given at this point

from people around the investigation to ever assume that that's the full story right It doesn't seem that way. And like if I were running a PR campaign on the aftermath of this, I would never do any of the things that they've done. I would like to think I would never do it. Right. I mean, like the optics,

right, are awful. Absolutely. And the problem is like they are so angry. Like I I know this for a fact because when I did my interview with Tucker, like they just went freaking nuts online and I'm like I've never seen anything like that. We were we were not even like we only touched on Charlie like couple of times and all of a sudden I've got all these trolls like anti-semite anti-semite and they realized afterwards that oh wait a second she actually works for Jewish people. We can't do that. So then I became a Russian puppet.

So, like it's crazy, but I just didn't realize like I was I took a screenshot and sent it to Tucker and Tucker was like

that bothers you. Of course, what what is what is actually you don't have to answer this especially if it's like off record or private conversations, but based on what's public domain because I haven't really seen him talk about it. I'm sure he has, but I just haven't seen it.

What What What does Tucker make of the investigation? cuz like he was he was friends with Charlie Kirk. It's it's personal for him I would imagine.

So definitely personal. I'm not going to talk about like for Tucker. So Tucker should say that himself

but what he told me like in the interview it's out there is very simple. If the FBI doesn't do a sufficient investigation people should go bunkers.

That's what he said and I agree. I agree too. And the reason we're here, me and you talking about this is because they have not done sufficient investigation. If they had, then we would not be here.

They're too busy up in Valhalla, right? Funniest thing. You know, I I want to ask you a question now. Okay.

What's up with I asked this to everyone that had any relationship with uh Cash Patal and Danino. These are two people that I really admired like when they were out, right? Like these are two people that said the right things. Like I was like, "Oh my gosh, like Cash is going to direct the FBI finally." Like, you know, diaper is going to change. You know, something's going to And we are sitting with Charlie Kirk's mur murder. And they are telling us the biggest [ __ ] I've ever heard. Even at some point like RFK's like murder makes sense but not this.

What? And doesn't it strike you odd that Tyler Robinson is like secret and hidden from everybody?

Yeah. Every there there's there's really nothing about this that strikes me as normal. They they you know they paved over the whole scene I think within like 5 days and put like a water fountain there.

Actually went up and checked on it. Yeah. Why are they changing everything? Like that's the thing. Like what is going on? They they changed the roof to the thing as well. Like the roof.

Yeah. I'll tell you one thing that's really sticking with me is the lack of autopsy because yes, we all saw it on camera multiple. Well, they said they did an autopsy. It's just the Utah law conveniently says that it doesn't have to come out.

Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying. Like like the the the lack of public transparency that's in the best interest there for us to be able to see. Cuz what the autopsy will show is you'll see, you know, a diagram picture where they have the,

you know, basically like the lines that show the angle it goes in. And people, you know,

they're not stupid. They'll be able to let that in the public domain and the experts going to expert at that point. I don't understand why they won't release that.

You want to talk about the bullet? Let me tell you something cool. So everyone's and this is like so they're talking about conspiracy theories. So when this happened like everyone just went like crazy about oh he was wearing a like bulletproof vest or whatever and the Tyler Robson had the gun in the pants like so when I get on a case to investigate as an investigative journalist like the first thing I do is separate I I separate the noise from what what's real right

um excuse my language everyone could see the nipples Charlie's nipples he's not wearing the vest let's move on like why are we still talking about it right

skinny jeans picture Tyler Robinson. We know how like no way there's a gun. Move on. But then here's the problem. Once you move on from that, like me and Ian talked about this like the skinny jeans and gun. Okay. So then if he didn't have the gun in the pants, then did he even use that gun? What was that even the gun that was used as a cuz that's how we know like he he walked with it, hid it, right? Like then how do you know it was the gun?

The 3006 bullet is what's really getting me and I am not a ballistics expert. Right.

There's someone that I'm going to have in who I really want to discuss this who is. But

from what I have been told from people who are, and please fill in the comments here if you are a ballistics expert, the idea that from 200 yards a 3006 bullet would be shot and have a direct hit on the neck and not literally blow the head off. I mean, it was a violent shot, don't get me wrong, but like

very special upsets what you just said. That's a little bizarre. And also, you know, optically speaking here,

right, when Andrew Kvette, who was like the producer for Charlie Kirk, went to write out that tweet about talking with the surgeon where he's like, "The surgeon said that Charlie was truly Superman and the bullet would have gone through anyone else." Even if for some reason that were true, and I don't think it is,

even if it were, that's one of those like when you're a kid, your parents teach you to count to five before you press send.

That's one of those you write it out and you you go into a quiet room with no phones near you and read it out loud to yourself and ask yourself this question. Is this in any way helping this case? Just start there. The answer is immediately no. if you have an IQ even at room temperature and then you ask yourself the question is this going to cause us bigger problems and once again the answer is immediately yes if you have a room temperature or below IQ and the fact that he wrote that tweet and actually pressed send it was magic bullet all over again and it's like and by the way he was saying it in like a you know they've been like religiousizing that's not a word but his death he was saying it in this prophetic way like Charlie was and I'm I'm paraphrasing here people but it was like Charlie was truly touched by God that this bullet WOULDN'T GO THROUGH MALAKA HE'S DEAD

right he HE DIDN'T HE DIDN'T LIKE RISE FROM THE DEAD OR LIKE SUDDENLY LIKE GET SHOT AND BE LIKE HERE'S THE BULLET I'M GOOD FAM HE'S DEAD LIKE IT WASN'T A MIRACLE he died a horrible death we all watched it he left a family behind this is this is a person like it's not a miracle Right.

Like I don't give a [ __ ] if the bullet went through to [ __ ] Vietnam. He's dead.

That's it. Like what? It just it's just been frustrating. It's Yeah. Have you heard of this theory? Now they are trying to like this is where it's just so it gets so stupid. Like now they are saying well you know what it was a conspiracy. It was but

who's saying that? Like there are the theories out there that are people saying and I don't know where it originated but I can guess they're saying

it was a conspiracy theory but it was all leftists. It was not just Tyler but it was like all of them got. Okay. So okay there was a conspiracy by some leftist idiots like whatever demonic people and wanted to kill Charlie and FBI is so dumb that they don't know about it. Why would they cover up just a bunch of idiot devil worshippers? Like what are you talking about?

So what what if here's one I I don't even think I've thought of this, but you're you're making me think of this now. What if like they really [ __ ] up here and they should have known it was coming and they found out they they should have known it was coming and now they just cover their tracks.

Could be a case. Honestly, nothing would surprise me when when it gets to FBI. Like who said it to me? I think it was Tucker who said like you know how like you think FBI is corrupt right it's three times worse than you think like it's it's how it is and it doesn't matter whether it's cashpal dimpen you know like they are still in the system they cannot clean up anything like it it doesn't work that way and the the major question here is though okay so we know they killed him do you have any like suspicious that that they didn't and it was just Tyler Robinson like would you would you agree that it was a conspiracy The correct answer right now is technically I don't know. But again, the way they've said, "Oh, it's Tyler Robinson. He just shot the Bose at 3006.

Nothing else to see here." Again, doesn't add up for me. I also think we're never going to know the truth on this, unfortunately.

You know, I'm more optimistic about this. I think nobody can prove Kennedy's case anymore. Even though I could I told you this when we started, I can give you all the names. Like I I'm pretty sure David could too and many others, but the proof won't be there because these people had I mean Bush headed the CIA. You think he's going to leave anything behind not shredded that implicates him or his family? Of course not. Even though he's implicated. So, um here's what I think about Charlie. I think if people play their cards right on this one, this might be the the one um and original case scenario where people can solve this case. Like I I think that it's doable.

The fact that it was in the modern day and it's on video, right, from at least four different angles,

right? And then, you know, a couple angles that have an SD card that was handed over to the FBI.

You know, it's different. It's different and there there could be. But it also the greatest way to cover something up is to create a chaotic scene.

Exactly. Because it's easy to hide in chaos. And I just, you know, that was such a we we were on air when it happened. I was in here with the religion business guys and we and we all

we literally stopped to go to the bathroom real quick right when it happened and De was like, "Oh my god."

And then we got right back on air and you know, it just the whole thing sent a a chill down my spine because it's a real Rubicon being crossed. No matter no matter who did it, it's a Rubicon being crossed

where someone with a extremely prominent following, right? And say in the political sphere, whether you agree with their opinions or not, was shot and killed for something in their beliefs.

Right? And the fact that there are some people that can't see what an awful precedent that is in the modern age blows my mind, right?

You know, this is not something that should be shoved under the rug or forgotten. It should be investigated six ways to Sunday. It should be citizen investigated six ways to Sunday.

You know, we we deserve to know the truth here and we deserve to know the truth on everything.

Exactly. But it it is it is this one was just it was particularly spooky for me. Yeah. And you know what I want to say about this real quick? So Charlie dies, right? And then these people never do by these people again. Like CIA gets all the crap. But let's throw in NSA. Like they are no less than CIA when it gets to, you know, terrible [ __ ] And people completely disregard Navy intelligence and their, you know, paramilitary group. So it could be any of them really. Like it could be any of them working with whoever. So the the interesting thing is they never do anything just for one outcome, right? So they when they do something with there it's like you know allowing 911 which I believe they allowed there was a pre pre-nowledge of it like there's we're not going to go into it but

yeah be another yes definitely not so uh but whether it's that Iraq war whatever it is right it's never for just one goal so it's like we're going to get this this and this out of it okay so what did they get get with Charlie it's very simple Charlie was bringing people together people who were completely divided and like he was a like unifier or whatever you want to call it, right? So, all of a sudden they they killed a figure that is very dangerous in the future. Maybe not now, but in just like what was he 20some

like can you imagine 32? Yeah. Yeah. 31. Yeah. So like can you imagine when Charlie's like in his 60s

like how much work he could have done? He was uniting people together. That's one. So definitely needs to go right because US cannot be united than we think you know the the we become stronger standing together

divided society is a compliant society. Exactly like divide and conquer. So that's one. Second of course you win the the whole Israel thing because he's he's about to divert like you kill him and then you can manipulate the narrative. And people say well you know people still don't Yeah but they tried to manipulate the narrative. Remember Benjamin Netanyahu comes out right after this happens and starts talking about how Charlie loved Israel. What are you doing, dude? What are you doing?

Yeah. So, they tried to hijack the narrative to to make it seem like Charlie died as a as a whole Israeli lover or something like that, right? In reality and Israel, we should not talk about Israel as a country. Let's talk about Benjamin Natano. It's total different concept. Okay, so Benjamin Netanyahu seems like plays it as they were friends and know I invited blah blah blah tried to hijack the narrative. Tell me what you think. Would he not be successful if not for Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, and in a way Megan Kelly? Take these three out of the occasion for a second. What would we know today that what Charlie was what?

Charlie was best friends with Nanyahu, right? And so the narrative that he wanted to plant would be implemented.

I think the most interesting quote or anecdote after Charlie's death that has gone largely

right ignored was actually what Dave Smith said. Did you know that? No. Okay. So Dave Smith, I believe he went on like a stream with Sneo.

Uhhuh. few days after Charlie's assassination and Dave Smith was invited by Charlie to speak at a Turning Point conference where he was debating this other guy I think Josh Hammer is his name who's a pro-Israel guy

on stage and that was towards the end of July I want to say and so Dave I believe had never

been in person meeting Charlie Kirk at that point and so Dave has explained this he's like you know I spent an hour with the And

we start talking and we're getting into it for like 15 minutes and he said the the thing about your favorite political commentators, I hate to break it to you, is most of them don't [ __ ] read books.

He's like, I read books. It was very clear within 15 minutes, Charlie reads books. We were talking about all different types of, you know, literature across the board. And I and and so it got to a point where I was like, okay, all right, Charlie, you're a smart guy, right?

Like you get it. you know what's going on here over in Israel. What the why are you so on it? And Charlie, the way he described it is Charlie went, "No, listen, listen. My faith is my number one thing to me. The Israeli government protects the Christian sites. If the Muslims took over the country and it was a radical group that did it, they would probably destroy them. And I care about those sites more than anything," which he said it just like that according to Dave Smith. And then Dave was like, "Okay, well, can we do that without the genocide or whatever?" He's like, "Ah."

And he, you know, and he was like he and hauling on it. What was so clear to me though

is that it was a complete nonchalant admission that Charlie, in my opinion, for right or wrong, this is just like it's seemingly a fact,

never gave a [ __ ] about like the things he expressed out loud about the Israeli government or whatever or claimed to tie to the Bible or whatever. It was a transactional agreement for him for his faith where he prioritized it. And so it would make sense that someone of faith

finally got to a point where he couldn't support a government's actions where where women and children were being killed

to such an extent that he finally would have had a breaking point on that. And I think that is absolutely something that should be looked at here. And to your point, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu's PR whatever after Charlie's death was some of the worst executed

PR I have ever seen in my life. And it's like, you know, as someone who's really studied that guy's whole life for years until very recently, I'd say probably until the last two or three years, Benjamin Netanyahu as a politician

was a William Jefferson Clinton level politician. a [ __ ] political genius. Mhm.

He has completely lost his fastball. He has no concept of where he stands. He has less than zero self-awareness. He is making It's like watching a [ __ ] you know, someone who's deaf conduct an orchestra.

All due respect to death, people. I don't mean to shout at you guys. I'm just saying like it's and probably there's a great composer out there who was able to do that well, but like you know what I mean. It's like

a disaster class at all times. And so you cannot look at those two things and not say, well, is there a question to ask there?

Sure there is. Of course there is. He was clearly having a moral conundrum there. And what's funny is when I would have conversations with people over the last two years really

trying to talk about this issue and the insane, you know, arguments and nuances, whatever the [ __ ] you want to call it, in the Middle East conflict,

I would always cite the October 12th, I believe it was October 12th, 2023 interview with Charlie Kirk on PBD where he came out and said that [ __ ] I remember the day he said that and I was like

that's the most pro-Israel young guy on the right side saying that and remember when he like looked to the sky he's like

I'm going be careful how I say this they're going to ethnically cle and I was just like I remember watching that like

yep and yet you don't think that same guy would be wrestling with the morality when there's two more years of you know a brutal war that's having some awful awful downstream effects. killing people. Of course he would. Of course he would.

Can you imagine how brave like you have to be to be Charlie and say that? Like when you're surrounded by the people that he was surrounded, which is like all pro-Israeli people, right? And all of a sudden he knows what he he was no stupid guy. Okay. He knew that after that there would be a war and he accepted that. Like this is what I love about this [ __ ] You asked me like why do you say they going to call you Russian puppet? I don't care. Bring it on, bro. Bring it on.

Well, it's it is, man. It's getting interesting out here. And I I just, you know, it's hard for people, especially when you have just access to go online and get mad all the time,

right? You know, it's it's hard to put some things aside, but, you know, we also got to be

Yeah. We got to be careful with how we talk about things. There there was a tweet I saw today from Elon Musk that like, you know, is clearly just he's typing quickly on his phone and not thinking about it. I don't want to sit here and like demonize him,

but he's like, I believe the exact quote was civil war in Britain is inevitable.

And it's like, dude, you're the second richest guy in the world with one of the largest followings in the world, a top five name recognition. Yeah, there's problems in Britain right now. I'm not denying that.

Right. That's not helping. Yeah. We got to be really careful with how we talk about these things because the people who By the way, is Elon gonna be out there on the front lines fighting that [ __ ] war?

Of course not. No, he won't. He'll be he'll be sitting playing with the Starlink while people play with it and die down below.

And I'm not ripping him for that, but like you have to we we got to stop fanning the flames on everything. And I know that's hard and I know it's unpopular sometimes. People get mad. I've se I've lived in a country that's gone from [ __ ] George Floyd to Charlie Kirk. I mean, you want to talk about a [ __ ] whip roll and I've been doing this the whole time, you know, but like we got to,

you know, look outside, touch grass, go to the go to the [ __ ] bodega, hold the door open for someone who looks like they might have different opinions from you. Things are going to be okay.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and and I believe in what this country is built on. I do think

elites have let us down. I think the government and bureaucracy have let us down. I think that stuff should be called out and we'll do it. And you know, we'll have on people like you to do that for sure. But we also got to do it in a way where we're trying to fix the problem and not just, you know, open up the [ __ ] artery here at all times and bleed out.

I agree with you. I couldn't agree more. I think Elon's knowing Elon's personality probably did it because he's worried about it. And I don't think he did it maliciously. I agree. I don't think it was malicious.

But yeah, sometimes I agree with you that thought needs to go into it. Like this is why talking about Charlie and I'm not going to continue more on this but like I also believe that things it just needs to be said. You just have to think about how you want to word it right because sometimes like we me and you like got into argument in a good way like we sometimes like we don't understand each other and it's not that we didn't agree. We talked about this like on on a bathroom bathroom bathroom break that we agree we just didn't understand each other most of the time, right? Like about certain issues.

Yeah. Elizabeth, thanks for being a good sport today. Thank you so much for inviting us.

This this has been a wide ranging conversation and and sure this was not my best day for sure, but you did a great job and I appreciate you uh

bringing all your perspectives here. Thank you. All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Hey guys, thank you as always for watching this episode. If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button as well as that like button on the video. It is a huge, huge help for us in the algorithm. And I'll see you guys for the next episode.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "HEATED DEBATE: Charlie Kirk, the Elites, NASA Moon Landing & Soviet History | Elizabeth Lane • 355"?

Julian Dorey (Host), Elizabeth Lane (Guest), Brenon (Guest).

What is "HEATED DEBATE: Charlie Kirk, the Elites, NASA Moon Landing & Soviet History | Elizabeth Lane • 355" about?

Elizabeth Lane joins the host for a wide-ranging conversation that touches on her experience moving from Georgia (the country) to the United States, her early interest in politics, and her childhood in acting. The episode also previews the broader topics the pair plan to tackle, including Charlie Kirk, elite institutions, NASA's Moon landing, and Soviet history. The host opens with reflections…

What is mentioned in this Julian Dorey episode?

77 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Georgia, Communism, Joseph Stalin, United States (states), Fascism, Soviet Union. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "HEATED DEBATE: Charlie Kirk, the Elites, NASA Moon Landing & Soviet History | Elizabeth Lane • 355"?

The episode runs 2 h 58 min; the transcript is about 34,472 words in 632 timestamped sections.

More from Julian Dorey

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 17, 2025.