Accused Killer Kevin Ellis Was Set Up, Acted in Self-Defense: Defense

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Kevin Ellis, Alex Palmer
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Kevin Ellis
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Alex Palmer, Tracy Gri, Carolyn Fiser
4. 30:00 – 34:11: Tim Ellis

Notable quotes from "Accused Killer Kevin Ellis Was Set Up, Acted in Self-Defense: Defense"

• Need to preserve sorry prove bring evidence that proves that the conspiracy existed to satisfy their next argument that what happened in the room was not self-defense.

  about Kevin Ellis · at 3:58

• I don't think respectfully either it'll ultimately be exactly like Mr.

  about Alex Palmer · at 10:53

• I just called Carolyn Fiser who picked up Kate and facilitated her flight from California whose idea was, Hey, we should put the air tags we used at Disneyland,.

  about Carolyn Fiser · at 11:45

• Tracy Gri the mastermind in putting together a plan which sounds like might have been plan D when Matt was going to come out to harm him or unfortunately to happen.

  about Tracy Gri · at 13:46

• Rachel, they're going to present Tim Ellis, you'll see the communications about how Tim thought he might need to come over to be protected. What should his role be? Sure, they're all going to be kind of poop emojis and stuff. He didn't like.

  about Tim Ellis · at 31:53

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Kevin Ellis — Person · Central defendant / accused shooter discussed in opening statement · 2 mentions · first at 3:27
  The argument repeatedly centers on what Kevin knew/believed at the time of the shooting and whether he knowingly joined a conspiracy versus acting in self-defense.
• Tracy Gri — Person · Alleged co-conspirator; portrayed as mastermind by defense narrative · 1 mention · first at 13:46
  Presented as the planner/controller who allegedly orchestrated events and influenced others; central to the defense theory that Kevin was duped into involvement.
• Alex Palmer — Person · Opposing counsel / prosecutor referenced by defense · 3 mentions · first at 2:59
  Cited for framing the state’s burden and narrative; the speaker explicitly disagrees with Palmer’s characterization of what the state must prove.
• Carolyn Fiser — Person · Facilitator / helper referenced in logistics (travel/airtag idea) · 1 mention · first at 11:45
  Identified as the person who picked up Kate and helped her leave California; also tied to the idea of using AirTags to track Matt’s truck.
• Tim Ellis — Person · Referenced family member / potential witness · 1 mention · first at 32:00
  Mentioned as someone in communications about possibly coming over for protection; also referenced as someone the state may present as a witness.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Excuse me in advance for a couple things. I did get a chest cold at first. We'll ask his owner for some also apologize in advance for the fact that one will be evident from my what this case is about. When you come to a courtroom in our country and you sit as peers chosen because you promised to uphold the principles that overarch every single trial where the government is accusing a citizen to appear those principles become what a trial is about what someone believes might have happened. But if you read a story, if you heard a story that you might believe, four corners of this courtroom are where this trial occurs. And what happens here is what matters to a verdict. And what the principles are is the absolute key in this case. We'll test these principles. We will test these principles. be easy for you to think that the state has created a narrative through the evidence argument that their case

1:34 should result in conviction. We ask you since these principles which let's face it the blood of men and women in our country have spilled sometimes on foreign soil to protect be constantly in your mind as you assess the case as you assess the witnesses as you assess the evidence I take this opportunity also to know that the state of the burden so they put on the case they're going to call the witnesses for the next number of days. They're witnesses. They're not the state's witnesses. We'll go next after they get asked questions is please pay attention to the answers to our questions and the way those answers are given at times.

2:24 That's important. And when you do, please consider principles. You're going to hear them all throughout. You heard them in jury selection. You heard him in the introductory instructions from his honor. But they are the presumption of innocence, the burden of proof and that proof has to be beyond a reasonable doubt. And this is important and I appreciate Mr. Palmer brought brought it up. I'll disagree with this reference to you that the state has to prove that the evidence best explains their theory. That is not the case. You give that an instruction and you'll get it a bunch of times. They have to disprove any real possibility that Kevin Ellis knowingly entered a conspiracy and carried it out in a manner that wasn't justified.

3:39 That's what the burden is. And I submit that the state in this opening statement has flipped the script on these charges. I believe that you will see that the evidence in this case is such that they need to preserve sorry prove bring evidence that proves that the conspiracy existed to satisfy their next argument that what happened in the room was not self-defense. And that's because under the law that applies, it is not about the entire case that the government must prove is about what Kevin knew. And it doesn't have to be accurate.

4:34 You're going to see it probably wasn't. He was given all sorts of information. This evidence is going to show that would be up here that probably wasn't accurate. In fact, tragically, because his sister and his mother as co-conspirators, there definitely was a conspiracy. The evidence was shown. Fed it fed it to everybody and especially who they end up calling their hero Kevin Ellis. They're I'm sorry. simple fool playing, somewhat deadbeat son who was down on his emotions and open. And that's what will not happen because not only will when this evidence is fully out, fully tested and some of it apparently we're going to have to bring you to learn that state will not present some evidence apparently and if not and it's important we'll really and then so they must through what Kevin knew and what he believed at the time he fired.

6:05 That is the narrow scope of what needs to be proven in this case. And without a conspira, if you find beyond a reason to doubt that he's part of the conspiracy, you can't have self-defense part conspiracy. They won't. We'll get to that. partly heard it at the very end that we'll have to rely on the evidence to show that Kevin was part of the conspiracy. And that's because what you're going to see is as this all happens, where is Kevin? There will be a big hole in this evidence as to evidence against Kevin. evidence that Kevin's part of the conspiracy that is developed, enacted, and completed by Kate and her mom Tracy who do let's talk about the kinds of evidence for a minute that as far as we see again right this is a road map this is kind of how the lawyers think things are going to trot out at this trial.

7:24 Let me take this opportunity to say that the evidence show you will see when we examine witnesses that we largely have to rely in this opening statement on what we've already received reports things that the police have done and they put in reports and the results of interviews that other people did. You'll hear what happens sometimes when we try to get an interview with people like Kate. Even Kate was free to talk to everybody and talk to the to the prosecutors and talk to the police and everything, but we're not made available to us. When we get to that, I talk about Kate and death. But keep in mind that the best I can do right now is anticipate things based on what's been told to me. I got access to a lot of this. You'll hear that from me. I'm not testifying to you. I'm telling you, I'll ask the witness. Did we try to get a hold of you? I didn't. You said no. At any rate, the evidence won't prove that Kevin knew

8:34 there was a plan. Ambush knowing that, and shot knowing that Matt was not a danger. these communications between all these people. Let me let me stop here again and say none of us all of us would cringe at the notion that something happened to con. Please go get the bars and look at a war. And I guess the state's going to trot out a lot of texts in this family uh that are, you know, emotion. They didn't like that. And you're also going to hear a lot of things that Kate told them true or not. And the death is the family and them is the family.

9:26 this family shared and believed to make them not like men. Some things that they saw and observed in their lives that made them concerned about hear them describe him as erratic. He had a serious alcohol problem. Whether or not he was that was in play when he walked through the door that night is not the question. this whether what Kevin thought what Kevin knew what information Kevin had been given and these communications yeah they're all about Matt what is he coming he's d he's scary should there be protection does Kate need to be protected this is all the information that the evidence will directly or circumstantially was likely in Kevin's mind.

10:26 You just heard a timeline. Now, as I get this, I I'm not going to propose as Mr. Palmer said to solve the case. You'll do it. Roll up your sleeves and be on the front of your chair, please, as this trial transpires. and is certainly with the reward to serve the teachers. They mention the timeline. I I don't think respectfully either it'll ultimately be exactly like Mr. Palmer said, but especially the timeline of the night of the shooting. Pay attention when we ask the questions about that timeline of witness. Please put this all through the filter reason.

11:13 I already spoke about everyone's fear. Sorry, we're already ahead of time. We're not here to California. Um, I already spoke on that subject, but the evidence will be that these people were against the needle and we talked about why this place. So, you're going to hear and I'll talk about the investigation in a second, but it would have been very very easy to know that a very short time when it was placed, why it was placed, where it was placed etc. I just called Carolyn Fiser who picked up Kate and facilitated her flight from California whose idea was, "Hey, we should put the air tags we used at Disneyland, put one in Matt's truck. Who knows?

12:00 Maybe he'll chase us down. Maybe he won't sell the truth about the truck being stolen or something." and and ultimately in July use that when they're trying to know where Matt who's the person they would like to believe he is is traveling to the sister guns there won't be much issue about the gun that's fired at this

12:36 from the evidence that it'll be clear what the gun is and evidence that Tracy had done for years. You're going to hear by the way of course and others the evidence would be is a mastermind a control person and masterminded that according to her own daughter and that air attack again the significance of it is to track man but the key is why why did these There'll be more. You'll be paying attention. You'll find it. The reason I'm putting this is these people in this picture are the ones on the family tree. They are the children of Tracy. Gris states there he is and Kate supports it.

13:46 Tracy Gri the mastermind in putting together a plan which sounds like might have been plan D when Matt was Matt was going to come out to harm him or unfortunately to happen. Two of those things are not like the other by that point in time. in the middle and Kate. They got Kevin to be their champion without him knowing who's being used. That's the real possibility. Frankly, it's likely possibility. And you're also going to learn that the the the witnesses, the police and the government just refuse to have you consider by the end of this trial. Yet they're the ones that know. It's interesting what Tracy can do under the others of this trial. You're going to hear how she can affect everybody. these this family and even neighbors. You're going to hear from the neighbor who had a boy come in her house and 911 and such about how Tracy tricks her, fools her. She's even part of the family that Tracy can get in convince of things

15:16 that are not true so that she can get what she wants to happen. And that's why I put this up because they are a source of information about what people thought, what people knew, and that people were Catholic. But I really want to spend some time here with G. And I do want to unpack a little bit about the role Again, we get to expect what case because we see the process by which gate is arrested, prosecuted, saw the government, saw transcripts from the ultimately cut a deal and gave statements. She gave statements before she was arrested. Everyone here everyone's there nice and pretty pretty chilling.

16:31 You know this about Kate luring that into this house communicating when you hear them or the same and There's no reason anybody. But Kate is now coming to testify. So she's got a deal. It is going to be critical for you. I sounds like weight classation. Don't think T's going to directly. That's the state who build it up. And I submit to you that if she does, you will see that she never did before. What Kate does is after having seen everything, all the evidence you're going to see, ends up through her lawyer communicating with the state about the desire for a plea bargain. Something happens to the effect that the state sends her a plea bargain offer.

18:18 And then the plea bargain offer is clear. Get a deal. What you're going to hear is years probably offer. She's supposed to have her lawyer send in a proper statement is called a a the suggestions of things she might say to the to the government in an interview and the testimony that they didn't condition this fully on testimony is obvious. She's already sent and the state conditions you're going to see from the evidence. Kate's plea bargain on what she says in her interviews being truthful. So, her lawyer sends one in, a proper letter, a letter of here's some information you'll learn if you have a debrief with Kate who has admitted there was a conspiracy masterminded by her mother that she engaged in to lure man in the house knowing he would be her.

19:59 one that Tracy initiated in planning, not a plan discussed with Kevin, but Tracy took advantage of Kevin and his mental health issues. And the captain never discussed details about shooting Matt with Kevin and that Tracy distanced her communications with K from her communications with Kevin. So they have an interview And in the course of this interview, you're going to hear that as they get through discussing Tracy and Kate's plan, masterminded by Tracy mom taking advantage of Kevin's mental state. The kid tells the police, "Well, Kevin was never around. I really see him that day. Again, I never talked to him. He wasn't present with me and my mom on any of the occasions we talked about a conspiracy.

21:33 You're going to hear her say, she didn't really see him, but they made preparations to move these toys and blanket. That mom and Tracy did that. Kevin wasn't there. gonna say at one point I think around three o'clock if you see that I'm wrong whatever time it sounds like theory is that Tracy took Kevin the day that Matt's driving over to sushi. Kate will admit that Tracy never said what she talked to Kevin about it. Sushi. But Tracy never said that she told Kate anything about whether she talked to Kevin about a plan for instance versus he's coming. We need protection.

22:33 Jabadin seemed different after the sushi. that the scene according to what the state required her to be truthful and telling was my mother's plan and presented as I was scared you're going to hear that it wasn't going didn't seem to be going so well for the states. So they took a break. She could go talk to then they brought up an immunity agreement when they re returned. I wait for you to see what they did there. There was lots of talk about Kevin and his involvement. That talk was by the police. They weren't Kate's words, but Kate does say when they're talking about evidence, she never deleted any text from Kevin.

23:41 Again, never communicated, never talked to him about a plan, never deleted any text. Kevin is not in the picture according to Kate. Sure, he shot after. And that's the stage theory. You should convict because he fired.

24:06 Um, a couple days later, Detective Nordine went out and had another brief followup because they had never asked Kate any questions about whether she talked to Tracy or anything. the three and a half months that two of them were out of custody together, living together, and even testifying falsely at a hearing, the courting Kevin's detention. Then she entered a plea and the evidence is going to show that in connection with getting ready to enter the get sentenced, Kate wrote what she described to the government, something that took her six hours to write. It's a handwritten description of what happened.

25:11 You're going to see that it continued not to directly implicate Mr. Powerized statements were yeah directly implicate Kevin continued not to certainly continue to implicate mastermind Tracy and Kate and in fact also had some timelines and things that were not exactly consistent with or at least satisfying to the state's theory. You'll hear that once the state saw this written statement, they went and had another interview with Kate in December of last year. They didn't get anything out of that either that directly implicated Kevin.

26:07 This is a person they're presenting to you because they entered in to a plea deal with her. they would only do if she told the truth. I don't know what she's going to say up there, but that's the evidence that I expected to hear. It does not tell you. That's what the other show

26:42 verd right is burden for the government to bring evidence that proves through usually investigative means. You'll hear means that police use on their own to discussion and determination or can be directed by the prosecutors to go ahead and do more. They have detective in their office. They control uh have the ability to um use all these resources. They can if you're doing an honest investigation, of course, something that we now commonly hear and is described as confirmation bias. He fired. he must be guilty on all things.

27:31 If you take that position and the evidence will show that that's what happened, you just support evidence that favors that theory and you ignore or excuse evidence to the contrary and you're disincined to change your belief. I think police officers hopefully do their best not not to have that happen. This is, by the way, a subjective thing that happens to a school. But I think you're going to find that unfortunately he shot, therefore he conspired and he conspired, therefore he didn't have self-defense. Creates a problem in this case. no attempt to investigate the real possibility Kevin was led into this, duped into this, set up for this in the plan that Tracy had with his sister Kate because well, they did a good job going in and proving up the conspiracy between Kate and Tracy, which as Mr. Poy said was a drag of a lot of communications.

28:56 Then by the way, you're going to learn that Diane, bless her soul, mother of a dead son. You could all imagine that had already solved it two days later in a phone call that Tracy and Kate had with her. setting that aside when you he shot therefore he conspired and you stick with that and it creates confirmation bias and they prove a conspiracy and as proven enough with all these communications have all these communications. I'm sad for everybody that you don't talk about things in the way that you they expect to be read someday but every bit of it. In every bit of it, as they collect the evidence here, Kevin's not there.

29:47 There's no there's no direct discussions with Kevin about what to do. There's no Sure, they share, they all share the Air Tag, and you'll see communications are mass coming, masks coming. You'll hear these family members that I pointed out to you, they're like an asking. I mean, they literally share their roots. There is nothing one knows that the other doesn't know. I submit to you that the evidence is going to show. I'll protect you. Kevin can protect her. You're going to see things like that all throughout these communications because that has Kevin in that doesn't give the prosecutor sorry pause.

30:36 They don't commun They don't consider communications that actually might suggest that Kevin could be doomed. It would work better to duke him. It would be better to use him in this plan if he didn't know. The big picture is never studied. putting this all together and understanding the role Kevin has not only in the case but in the evidence and in the motives and in the two person's conspiracy they just don't consider the family and that sounds like submit to you you're going to hear all kinds of things from family members in this case but you're going to learn that in fact in fact in this in this family tree Aurora Rory lived at the house when the shooting happened. Never never never ever interviewed. No attempt.

31:35 Jacob Trillo lived in the house, left in the daytime of that day and came was headed back in the night time when he found out a shooting occur. His sister said, "Don't go there." Um, we know that that never called, never contacted by the police. Rachel, they're going to present Tim Ellis, you'll see the communications about how Tim thought he might need to come over to be protected. What should his role be? Sure, they're all going to be kind of poop emojis and stuff. He didn't like that. That's true. But there'll be evidence. a person have evidence of this family dynamic and what everybody was afraid of and who that whether that might include Kevin.

32:28 He was never contacted. Take it back. What you learn in the trial is that he was he was put on our witness list and when they saw that they put him on theirs the first time we cuz these principles of course it has there's much more. And we ask you to be on the front of your seat thinking to yourself about thinking whether these things make sense to disproving that capital is not a part of the conspiracy. We do play a role and is in this courtroom in that chair because of what Tracy did successfully. They're there to protect a person.

33:37 They have to be and absolutely apply to every aspect of a case in this trial and those rules apply to this case. At the end of maybe a couple weeks trial, I believe we'll render words about Thank you, Mr. Williams. Please pay your first witness.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Accused Killer Kevin Ellis Was Set Up, Acted in Self-Defense: Defense"?

In order: 0:00 Kevin Ellis, Alex Palmer; 5:00 Kevin Ellis; 10:00 Alex Palmer, Tracy Gri, Carolyn Fiser; 30:00 Tim Ellis.

What is mentioned in this Law&Crime Trials episode?

5 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Kevin Ellis, Tracy Gri, Alex Palmer, Carolyn Fiser, Tim Ellis. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Accused Killer Kevin Ellis Was Set Up, Acted in Self-Defense: Defense"?

The episode runs 34 min; the transcript is about 3,669 words in 32 timestamped sections.

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