Transcript

This Is What I Learned From The Sarah Stock Disaster

From Matt Walsh · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 32 min · 5,734 words · 53 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "This Is What I Learned From The Sarah Stock Disaster", an episode of Matt Walsh published February 8, 2026 (32 min, about 5,734 words). It mentions 31 people, works and ideas, including Marriage, Family, Elijah Schaefer, Sarah Stark, Divorce.

What this episode is about

The content explores the profound benefits of marriage and family life, emphasizing love, legacy, and purpose as essential to human fulfillment and societal stability. It highlights a recent scandal involving conservative commentators that underscores the challenges and reluctance some young people feel towards commitment and family, prompting a deeper discussion on the significance of marriage in contemporary society.

Key takeaways

  • Marriage promises love and legacy, yet scandals reveal the murky waters of trust and fidelity.
  • As family structures erode, the desperate cry for stable marriages paradoxically grows louder.
  • Affairs don’t just disrupt lives; they amplify young people's fears of commitment in a decaying culture.
  • Finding a partner with shared values doesn't guarantee loyalty—a sobering reminder in the age of appearances.
  • The more the media attacks traditional views, the more they validate the need for honest conversations about marriage.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Marriage, Family, Sarah Stark, Duke
  2. – 10:00: Marriage, Elijah Schaefer, Sarah Stark, Milo Yiannopoulos
  3. – 15:00: Divorce, Marriage, Adultery, United States (states)
  4. – 20:00: Marriage, Divorce, Family, Fertility rates
  5. – 25:00: Marriage, Purpose, Western civilization, Family
  6. – 30:00: Marriage, Massa, Civilizational collapse, Family
  7. – 32:14: Marriage, Family, Legacy

Notable quotes from "This Is What I Learned From The Sarah Stock Disaster"

  • Topics that of course we discuss fairly often in various contexts and for good reason. Marriage is a sacrament. It's the foundation of the family and the family is the…
    about Marriage · at
  • Engaged to Sarah Stark, who briefly perhaps briefly went by the name Sarah Seta. Sarah's a relative newcomer in the whole tradoman conservative influencer space and she put out…
    about Sarah Stark · at
  • Alleged with a substantial amount of evidence that Sarah was in fact sleeping with her boss, Elijah Schaefer, who runs a small conservative media company called Rift TV, up to…
    about Elijah Schaefer · at
  • American Sociological Association, giving you an idea of how they frame the data. Quote, Study author Michael Rosenfeld, an associate professor of sociology at Stanford…
    about Michael Rosenfeld · at
  • As far as I can tell, in the vast majority of states, whether there are community property states or not, a woman can cheat on her husband and still receive half his assets.…
    about Divorce · at
  • That's the question, and it's a fair one. I saw a recent clip of Andrew Tate posing this exact conundrum as he has many times. Here's just the latest example. Watch.
    about Andrew Tate · at
  • Civilization itself, you can't pretend to care about the future of Western civilization while making a choice and promoting a choice to not get married, not have children. that if.
    about Western civilization · at
  • You need. You're gone. Skip the life overhaul of 2026. Just swap your snacks for ones with real ingredients like our sponsor massup. It's a clean eating without the massive…
    about Massa · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Elijah Schaefer — Person · Central subject of scandal (referenced commentator/media boss) · 3 mentions · first at
    Discussed as a married conservative commentator alleged to have had an affair; his actions are used to frame risks and moral arguments around marriage and adultery.
  • Sarah Stark — Person · Central subject of scandal (referenced commentator) · 3 mentions · first at
    Presented as the alleged affair partner in the Elijah Schaefer scandal and used as an example in a broader argument about marriage, trust, and divorce risk.
  • Andrew Tate — Person · Referenced public figure (anti-/skeptical marriage argument) · 3 mentions · first at
    A clip of Tate is used to articulate a skeptical, cost-benefit critique of marriage (prenups, divorce risk), which the host then rebuts.
  • Milo Yiannopoulos — Person · Referenced source/accuser · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as the person alleging (with claimed evidence) that Sarah Stark was sleeping with Elijah Schaefer; also referenced as obtaining an audio recording.
    Boss, who was a married man at the time with children. His wife is now divorcing him, apparently. And the allegation is backed by an audio recording which Giannopoulos obtained…
  • Michael Rosenfeld — Person · Referenced academic/expert (divorce initiation statistics) · 1 mention · first at
    Quoted as the study author (Stanford sociology) for the claim that women initiate ~69% of divorces; used to support the episode's argument about divorce dynamics.
  • Charlie Kirk — Person · Referenced commentator (reaction to engagement post) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as replying positively to Sarah Stark's engagement announcement; used to show how her public image was received by conservative figures.
    She writes, I won. Along with a picture of her engagement ring and as you can see there, Charlie Kirk, who was actually an honest and wholesome person, responded, Congrats.…

Companies & orgs

  • Rift TV — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the media company run by Elijah Schaefer, involved in the scandal discussed.
    Alleged with a substantial amount of evidence that Sarah was in fact sleeping with her boss, Elijah Schaefer, who runs a small conservative media company called Rift TV, up to…
  • American Psychological Association — Company · Referenced institution · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as the source of research on divorce rates initiated by women.
    They consider the fact that as of the most recent data, roughly 70% of divorces are initiated by women. That's according to research from the American Sociological Association…
  • Stanford University — Company · Referenced institution · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as the affiliation of a study author discussing divorce rates initiated by women.
    American Sociological Association, giving you an idea of how they frame the data. Quote, Study author Michael Rosenfeld, an associate professor of sociology at Stanford…
  • CDC — Company · Referenced institution · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as the source of preliminary 2025 birth rate data by mother's ethnicity.
    According to preliminary 2025 birth rate data compiled by the CDC, which looks at the mother's ethnicity, white non-Hispanic birth rates have actually increased over the past year and now.
  • Substack Age of Infores — Company · Referenced expert · 1 mention · first at
    Cited for data on birth rates among left-wing and conservative families.
    Take a look at this data from the US General Social Survey, which was published by republished by the Substack Age of Infores.

Concepts & topics

  • Marriage — Concept · Core topic · 25 mentions · first at
    Central theme of the episode, discussing the importance, risks, and benefits of marriage in the context of Western civilization.
  • Family — Concept · Core topic · 10 mentions · first at
    Discussed as the foundation of human society and a source of purpose and legacy.
    Get are children you love and who love you, who carry on your legacy, your bloodline, and your family name. You can have a family that is stable and whole, one that gives you a…
  • Divorce — Concept · Key argument · 7 mentions · first at
    Discussed as a significant risk and downside to marriage, with statistics on divorce rates and their implications.
  • Western civilization — Concept · Key argument · 3 mentions · first at
    Linked to the importance of marriage and family for its preservation.
  • Adultery — Concept · Key argument · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed as a significant risk in marriage and a reason for divorce, with historical context on penalties.
    There'd be nothing unusual historically about dispensing prison time or fines or even corporal punishment for adulterers.
  • Purpose — Concept · Key argument · 5 mentions · first at
    Discussed as a benefit of marriage and family life.
    Bloodline, and your family name. You can have a family that is stable and whole, one that gives you a sure sense of purpose every single day of your life. A family you live with and share your life with and serve and lead and raise. Okay?
  • Legacy — Concept · Key argument · 3 mentions · first at
    Presented as one of the benefits of marriage and family life.
    Will you be happy about the chance you didn't take?
  • Civilizational collapse — Concept · Key argument · 4 mentions · first at
    Linked to the decline in marriage and family life.
    Well, if we don't, civilization collapses, the human race goes extinct, and nothing matters because nothing will exist anymore. That seems like a relevant point. It's not irrelevant,.
  • Fertility rates — Concept · Key argument · 3 mentions · first at
    Linked to marriage and the preservation of civilization.
    Imagine, that marriage is directly linked to fertility rates, which seems pretty obvious. If we want to reverse population decline, then encouraging young people to get married…
  • Red pill — Concept · Key argument · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed in the context of criticisms towards marriage and family life.
    Families. But it's harder to form stable and loving families while the culture is decaying. Now, people in the red pill and so-called manosphere spaces have been making this…
  • Manosphere — Concept · Key argument · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed in the context of criticisms towards marriage and family life.
    Shows on Netflix have been written about how awful their opinions are and how they've created this manosphere that traffic's in dangerous misogyny and so on. But you know the…

Places & events

  • United States (states) — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    Context for discussions on marriage, divorce rates, and demographic changes.
    As far as I can tell, in the vast majority of states, whether there are community property states or not, a woman can cheat on her husband and still receive half his assets. there.
  • Duke — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned in the context of a blessing received by Sarah Stark and her husband.
    Talking about conservative principles for a living, and who will, in her case, literally stand by your side in front of the Pope as he blesses both of you. A woman can do all…
  • Texas — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as an exception in divorce law regarding asset division.
    Woman can cheat on her husband and still receive half his assets. there are exceptions, including Texas, but this is the norm, and that needs to change.
  • Biden administration — Event · Key argument · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of demographic changes and immigration policies.
    Native American population to nearly the extent that they were under the Biden administration. Closing the border and deporting illegal aliens has had a direct effect. It's…
  • Nordic countries — Place · Case study · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of fertility rates and welfare policies.
    Know from the Nordic countries which have a low lower fertility rate than we do that more welfare doesn't produce more children and more welfare definitely isn't guaranteed to…

Media & podcasts

  • Netflix — Media · Case study · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of criticism towards the manosphere and red pill communities.
    Time and have taken a lot of heat for it. I've had plenty of arguments with people on that side about this. entire shows on Netflix have been written about how awful their…

Sponsors

  • Massa — Product · Sponsor (ad-read product) · 2 mentions · first at
    Mid-episode sponsor segment promoting Massa chips with a discount code, URL, and retail availability (Sprouts).
  • massup — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Promoted as a healthy snack option during the podcast, with a call to action for listeners to purchase.
    Pathetic excuse of a chip that breaks immediately the second you dip into anything. Massive chips actually leave you feeling good. No crash, no bloat, none of that heavy, Why…
  • Sprouts — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a location where Massa chips are available.
    Don't feel like ordering online? Mass is now available nationwide at your local Sprouts supermarket. Stop by and pick up a couple of bags before they're gone. If she seems to enjoy the attention of men.

Full transcript with timestamps

What you can get out of marriage is the love, fidelity, and lifelong companionship of a woman who you love and who is devoted to you and to whom you are devoted in return. What you can get are children you love and who love you, who carry on your legacy, your bloodline, and your family name. You can have a family that is stable and whole, one that gives you a sure sense of purpose every single day of your life. A family you live with and share your life with and serve and lead and raise. Okay? so you can get love, meaning, purpose, and legacy. When the new year began, I decided that one of my goals for this show this year would be to make an even more aggressive defense of marriage and family life and to encourage people to have a lot of children. Because if we're going to save Western civilization, that is the only way to do it. And these are topics that of course we discuss fairly often in various contexts and for good

reason. Marriage is a sacrament. It's the foundation of the family and the family is the foundation of human society. And my plan was and still is to take this message, which I've been preaching for as long as I've had a platform to preach it from, and advance it in an even more deliberate way. And we were going to talk about some of the potential pitfalls, as we often do, while focusing on the importance of uh finding a spouse and raising a family. And that was the plan starting this week. And then the Elijah Schaefer scandal uh surfaced, revealing that Schaefer, a conservative commentator who is married and has children, was apparently having an affair with Sarah Stark, who's a conservative commentator and who at the time was dating the man that she would eventually marry. Um, this has been interesting timing because it's a story that perfectly illustrates the counterargument, the reason why so many

young people are so reluctant to get married and have children in the first place. Now, as to the specifics of this scandal, I'll go into a few of the details in a moment, not because this is a a drama channel, but because it's the kind of thing we must contend with if we want to make the case for marriage and family life. You know, if I were to try to do a monologue right now on that topic, all the comments would be, "Well, what about this? You see this scandal over here? This is exactly why we don't want to get married." So, let's just um let's lean into that. As much as I hate that phrase, uh, you know, I think that those of us on the pro- family side oftentimes it's it's true to say haven't done a good enough job of acknowledging and accounting for the enormous risks and downside to marriage that young people are confronting at increasing rates, no matter how hard they try to find a

compatible, moral Christian spouse. This is the catch 22. Our culture is decaying. In order to stop the decay, we need people to form stable and loving families. But it's harder to form stable and loving families while the culture is decaying. Now, people in the red red pill and so-called manosphere spaces have been making this point for a long time and have taken a lot of heat for it. I've had plenty of arguments with people on that side about this. entire shows on Netflix have been written about how awful their opinions are and how they've created this manosphere that traffic's in dangerous misogyny and so on. But you know the truth is when the writer room in Netflix uh is so enraged about your views that they start putting you in their shows then it means that you're on to something. Now let's let's talk about this issue from the perspective of a young man. And to anyone who accuses me of only blaming

the woman in this story, keep in mind that we talked about this yesterday. And I I spent 20 minutes discussing why Schaefer was wrong to cheat on his wife and how married men should behave so that they don't uh commit those sins. So, we've we've we've talked about that. Today, we're going to flip it around and focus on the other side because here's what the story demonstrates. It's not always enough to say that you should date a woman who goes to church, who says that she opposes abortion, who says that she's never slept with anyone outside of marriage, spends every day talking about conservative principles for a living, uh, and who will, in her case, literally stand by your side in front of the Pope as he blesses both of you. A woman can do all those things and convince you that she means every word of what she's saying, that she'll be a fantastic mother to your children, and then you find out one day that in fact

she was lying to you the whole time. She was actually having an affair with her boss behind your back. She was grinning as the Pope blessed your relationship while she was thinking about her other boyfriend. And here's the thing. If if you don't learn the truth soon enough, then she could not too far in the future walk away with half of your assets, including your house, along with alimony for life. This is not some fantastical hypothetical scenario. It's what apparently happened to the man who was engaged to Sarah Stark, who briefly briefly perhaps briefly went by the name Sarah Seta. Uh Sarah's a relative newcomer in the whole tradoman conservative influencer space and she put out posts like this one when she got engaged. This is from August of 2025.

Uh she writes, "I won." Along with a picture of her engagement ring and as you can see there, Charlie Kirk, who was actually an honest and wholesome person, responded, "Congrats. Marriage is amazing." Lots of people responded that way. Um makes sense to respond. Someone got engaged. It's a happy thing. and you say congratulations. Then there's this post from Sarah Stock which she wrote in November of 2024. Quote, "The idea that women are waiting until marriage uh who are waiting until marriage are doing it to manipulate men into marrying them so they can leave and take all their money is kind of skitso in my opinion. And you probably have a 01% chance of that happening. Anyone who's going to be a forever bachelor and never procreate because they're not willing to take that risk, especially with a woman they love and trust is NGMI, not going to make it. waiting till marriage also has statistically better

results for the marriage. And six months later in April 2025, Stock announced that she had converted to Catholicism. Uh Stock wrote, quote, I'm officially Catholic. And then she wrote a Christristus Rex, meaning hail Christ the King. And and then here's her her photo with her husband receiving the Pope's blessing. Now, I'm not prepared to say, as many have, that her conversion was a scam. and she never meant anything she said. It was all a big ruse. I can't say I can't see inside her soul. Only God can figure that out. It's perfectly possible for a person to profess a certain belief and hold that belief and yet act contrary to it. And we all do that to some extent because we are all sinners. And yet, it's also clear that Sarah was also putting together a carefully crafted image. Before she was engaged, she appeared on a podcast in which she claimed that she would abstain from sex until marriage. Uh, in contrast to some

other women on the panel who openly admitted that they were extremely promiscuous. Watch.

You're also religious, correct? Yeah, I'm a Christian. Are you waiting until marriage?

Yep. Have you always waited till marriage? Yes. You both are virgins. Is that correct?

Yeah. Yes. No shame. Just Yeah. Okay, cool. I said yes. And what's your body count?

It's eight. Four. I can give like around about Sure. Like 120. 120. Okay. Four.

Four. Eight. Zero. Zero. Zero. Whoa. Okay. Jake. Surrounded by purity here. Feel it rubbing off on me. Um,

now the point of showing you this uh all this stuff is not to gawk at the destru destruction of a marriage or to gossip about lurid details of which there are plenty in this case. We could fill a whole show full of those details if we wanted to. We won't. Instead, I'll simply say that Milo Yiannopoulos has alleged with a substantial amount of evidence that Sarah was in fact sleeping with her boss, Elijah Schaefer, who runs a small conservative media company called Rift TV, up to the moment that she became engaged to another man named Will. So, in other words, the allegation is that Sarah was cheating on her boyfriend and future fiance with her boss, who was a married man at the time with children. His wife is now divorcing him, apparently. And the allegation is backed by an audio recording which Giannopoulos obtained though it's not clear how. No reason to play that here there. You know, you could listen to

that if you want to online. There are other allegations even darker and more depraved that have been made and which I I certainly can't substantiate. In response to all these allegations, Sarah didn't issue any kind of specific targeted denial. She didn't dispute the accuracy of the claims being made exactly. Instead, she posted the following message to her account on X. It says, quote, "A lot of what has been said about me is completely untrue. That being said, there are mistakes, unwise decisions I've made that I deeply regret. I have sinned. I apologize to everyone who has been scandalized by this. Please pray. Logging off now."

Shortly afterwards, Sarah deleted her account entirely and deleted, I think, your other social media accounts as well. Now, if you follow this scandal on social media, you'll see that most people, as expected, are talking about it with a sick kind of glee and satisfaction. But we should never find satisfaction in the sins of others, especially when there are real victims involved, spouses and children. So the point is not to gloat. I have no reason to anyway. I have nothing personally against anybody involved in this scandal. The point is that this story is not the exception. It's not happening out of nowhere. There's nothing apparent about it. As we talked about yesterday, Elijah Schaefer Elijah Schaefer's behavior is all too common among some men. and Sarah Stock is all too representative of how some women, though certainly not all, think and behave these days. These types of women, they don't see men as potential husbands

to whom they will devote themselves or for whom they will be a loyal and loving helpmate. They see men as tools they can use dishonestly for a specific purpose. They consider the fact that as of the most recent data, roughly 70% of divorces are initiated by women. That's according to research from the American Sociological Association, but plenty of other sources agree on that point. In fact, the number rises to between 80 and 90% when you only look at highly educated women. Here's a quote from the American Sociological Association, giving you an idea of how they frame the data. Quote, "Study author Michael Rosenfeld, an associate professor of sociology at Stanford University, found that women initiated 69% of all divorces compared to 31% of men. In contrast, there was not a statistically significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by unmarried women and men. Women seem to

have a predominant role in initiating divorces in the US as far back as there is data from a variety of sources back to the 1940s. Rosenfeld said, I think that marriage is as an institution has been a little bit slow to catch up with expectations for gender equality. So that's how leftwing academics present the data. They blame marriage for being a little bit slow to catch up with expectations. They don't blame men for cheating on their spouses because according to the data, that's not what's actually driving the high rates of divorces initiated by women.

But they also know they can't blame women because every academic without exception is forced to embrace feminism as a religion. So they settle on blaming the institution of marriage itself, which ironically enough is exactly the same conclusion that many anti-feminist red pillars come to, just by a different route. And yet, if you ask women, they'll tell you exactly exactly why they're getting divorced. Uh if you take a look at the data, what it tells you is that the primary reasons that women give for divorcing their husbands include that they feel they aren't getting enough attention, uh their husband is holding back their career, that they quote grew apart.

In other words, the woman got bored and like Sarah Stock, apparently they wanted to try something new and they convinced themselves that there's nothing wrong with, you know, giving another man a try. And there's nothing stopping these women from walking into a courtroom telling the judge their board and taking 50% of their husband's assets along with alimony. Even in conservative states, they can get away with that. They can seize your home. They can seize your retirement account. They don't even have to lie about what they're doing.

That's where the law is right now. Among other reasons, this is a major problem because marriage is directly tied to the continued existence of civilization. Plenty of data shows, as you might imagine, that marriage is directly linked to fertility rates, uh, which seems pretty obvious. If we want to reverse population decline, then encouraging young people to get married is the way to do it. But it could be a tough cell for young men as long as the law remains so archaic and so obviously rigged against them. So why haven't any conservative states abolish no fault divorce? Or at the very least, why haven't more states abolished the idea that women are entitled to 50% of their husband's assets even if they've been cheating on him the entire time?

As far as I can tell, in the vast majority of states, whether there are community property states or not, a woman can cheat on her husband and still receive half his assets. You know, there are exceptions, including Texas, but this is the norm, and that needs to change. You know, in most cases, women should get zero dollars if they initiate a divorce. In most cases, they should get nothing. In fact, in many cases, they should be fined for wasting the man's time. That's not a punitive solution. It's it's one we obviously need because the current system is pathological and how it destroys the lives of innocent young men. In fact, we should really be discussing criminal penalties for adultery.

There'd be nothing unusual historically about dispensing prison time or fines or even corporal punishment for adulterers. And what's unusual is having no such penalties in place at all. We are one of the few societies in history to not treat adultery as a criminal matter. And I see no evidence that our approach is in any way superior or brings about better results at all. You know, it's tempting to think that reversing this entire system is impossible, but it's not. And more to the point, there's reason to believe that in general, conservative women in general are much less of a danger on this front.

Take a look at this data from the US General Social Survey, which was published by republished by the Substack Age of Infores. It shows that the average number of children that are being born to left-wing families in the United States is declining significantly and significantly more rapidly than the number of children who are being born to conservative families. In other words, left-wing birth rates are falling far faster than conservative birth rates. Conservatives are presumably involved in more stable and fulfilling marriages, the kind that aren't ended early due to an affair or a deceptive spouse or anything like that. So when you hear about falling birth rates and the collapse of civilization, you should know that the people who want to destroy civilization are going to destroy themselves first. And while that's not necessarily an ideal state of affairs, it's, you know, better than the

alternative. And when you zoom out even wider, there's some other interesting data in the latest statistics on birth rates. According to preliminary 2025 birth rate data compiled by the CDC, which looks at the mother's ethnicity, white non-Hispanic birth rates have actually increased over the past year and now account for more than 50% of all known births. Meanwhile, births from virtually every other race and ethnicity have declined sharply, which is a big change from recent years. And that includes Hispanic births, Asian births, black births, Pacific Islander births.

You know, the implication of this data is that foreigners aren't replacing the Native American population uh to nearly the extent that they were under the Biden administration. Closing the border and deporting illegal aliens has had a direct effect. It's reverse the demographic change that Democrats have been trying to engineer. Imagine what these numbers would look like if conservative states decided to actually do something to encourage even more marriages. That doesn't mean providing more welfare or handouts. There's plenty of evidence that uh you know from the Nordic countries which have a low lower fertility rate than we do that more welfare doesn't produce more children and more welfare definitely isn't guaranteed to provide more stable family units as the civil rights era demonstrated in this country.

What's needed is a rethinking of divorce law and the contracts that young men are being asked to enter into. And now with all that said, how could I after acknowledging these serious pitfalls still promote marriage and family life? What's the upside? Been through all the downsides, pretty grim. How could it possibly be worth it given all of that? That that's the question, and it's a fair one. I saw a recent clip of Andrew Tate posing this exact conundrum as he has many times. Here's just the latest example. Watch.

How big of an idiot is a guy that doesn't get a prenup? How big is of an idiot is a guy who gets married?

Bro, my girl is over there, my boy. He's waiting on that. Well, I'm sorry, but like

So, are you are you suggesting that marriage is out of the picture? What do you gain?

Non-emotional. Like there's men who get married and they go, "It's important because I love her." If you want to make emotional decisions, if you want to enter the world of emotional decisions with women, if you want to roll in the mud with a pig and lose, then that's fine. But as a man, it's your job to be logical. And I'm sitting here saying, "I'm not anti-marriage. Just show me what I get. You're asking me to agree to give away half my stuff if I argue with anyone at any point in the future forever. You agree? I'm sitting here.

I'm going to pay a whole bunch of money so her uncle can eat a lobster dinner and I'm going to be publicly humiliated over the internet when her ex-boyfriend who her silly laughs that I'm walking her down the aisle in a white dress. Okay, cool. So, what do I get? And and and the answer is, well, you you get a wife. I already have a wife. I already have her.

You get you get you get a couple of years of happiness, a risk of divorce, risk of losing your money, and maybe some kids.

Yeah. Well, I got kids anyway. So, it's a it's a fair it's a fair logical question, but the premise behind it is not fair. You know, I've already acknowledged that those of us on the promarriage side can sometimes be too quick to discount the possibility that a young man gets married and winds up humiliated, betrayed, and broke because of it. You know, we we we sometimes talk about marriage as though the divorce rate were 0%. On the other side, though, people like Tate talk about marriage as though the divorce rate were 100%.

As if no couple in history has ever managed to stay faithful and monogamous till death do they part. He treats the potential downsides of marriage as guaranteed and the upsides as if they don't exist at all. But they do. And in fact, on second thought, the question What will I get out of it or what do I get out of it is not entirely fair. I can't say what you will get out of marriage because I can't look into your future. I can't control for every possible factor. I can't force you to choose the right spouse, nor can I force you or your spouse to do all the things in a marriage that are necessary to keep it stable and happy. Most of the time when a marriage falls apart, it can be that there's one clear bad guy who did something destructive and and and was and you know betrayed the marriage. That can happen. Usually when a marriage falls apart, it's because you've got two people and neither of them were doing

the things necessary to keep it together. And so I can't control for that. But I can say what you can get out of marriage and what a great many men billions throughout history including myself 15 years in with six kids have gotten out of it. So what you can get is the love, fidelity and lifelong companionship of a woman who you love and who is devoted to you and to whom you are devoted in return. What you can get, what billions of men have gotten are children you love and who love you, who carry on your legacy, your bloodline, and your family name. You can have a family that is stable and whole, one that gives you a sure sense of purpose every single day of your life. A family you live with and share your life with and serve and lead and raise. Okay?

So, you can get love, meaning, purpose, and legacy. That's what you can get. That's not an emotional argument because those are not emotions. Those are real things. Those are nothing less than the greatest things life has to offer. So what can you get out of it? I don't know. The greatest things in life is what you can get. There's nothing greater, nothing that can bring you more joy or make your life more worth living. So what you get or can get in a word is basically everything. But it should also be said that as men, our concern should not be only what we get. What do I get is a fair question.

And if the answer were nothing, then you shouldn't do it. But it's a fair question. It should not be the only question. You know, Tate says he has kids anyway, so he doesn't need marriage. But okay, well, what would his kids get out of him being married to their mother? Well, they would get a stable household with a father who's present every day leading, guiding, and teaching them. Now, it's true that you can have kids without getting married. Plenty of people have done that. But all of the studies, all of the research, all of our experience as human beings show us that children are in a far better position with far better outcomes when their father is married to their mother and present in the home, providing not just financial support, but a daily example of how to live. I mean, all of the evidence shows this.

That's what your kids get. Well, what do they get out of you sleeping with other women and refusing to be a stable presence in the home? What possible benefit does that bring to them? What do they get? If you want to live a meaningful life as a man, if you want to be a great man, you need to be motivated by more than just a quest for what you get. There there has to also be a sense of obligation and duty. That's what's driven every great man in history. You know, Tate talks a lot about escaping the matrix, but the question, what do I get all by itself will not lead you out of the matrix, but deeper into it. I mean, in many ways, what do I get? The single-minded quest for pleasure and personal gain is the matrix.

That's what the matrix is. If you want out of it, you need to ask not just what you get, but also what are your duties? What are your obligations? What's your purpose? What should you do? Now, if we zoom out even further, who else stands to gain from you getting married and having children uh having children with your with your wife who you're married to? Well, I mean, everyone does. Civilization itself, you can't pretend to care about the future of Western civilization while making a choice uh and and promoting a choice to not get married, not have children. that if everyone made it would result in the extinction of the very thing you claim to want to preserve.

Now, I'm not saying that your primary motivation for getting married should be the preservation of Western civilization or the continuation of your bloodline. Like, no human being is going to be foremost personally motivated by that. But these are benefits and they're really important ones. Why should we get married and have kids? Well, if we don't, civilization collapses, the human race goes extinct, and nothing matters because nothing will exist anymore. That seems like a relevant point. It's not irrelevant, and it's one that the anti-marriage side of the argument never addresses.

you know, if every man, so this is the thing when you hear these these, you know um commentators and influencers making this point and they're pointing to things like this scandal we're talking about. They say this is why you don't you don't get married. Well, if every man followed your advice, human society would disintegrate. And and that strikes me as a pretty serious flaw in the plan. I mean, it strikes me that a plan must be bad if full adoption of your plan would bring about the annihilation of the human race.

So, it seems like that can't be a good plan. It's like we could talk about what the a better plan is, but it can't be that. It can't be the thing where if too many of us do it, everything collapses and everyone dies and there's no more humans left. And yet, yes, there are still risks. There are risks. I've already acknowledged risk that you can't uh protect yourself from with 100% certainty, but you can account for these risks to a very significant extent. We could put laws in place to account for them like we just talked about. And in lie of of those laws and or also in addition to calling for these kinds of policy changes, you can account for them personally.

You know, it is possible that a truly sociopathic, devious con artist could scam you into getting married to them while expertly disguising their true nature. That could happen. But in the vast majority of cases, there are extremely obvious red flags that someone is untrustworthy and disloyal. Flags you can pick up long before marriage if you're paying attention. You know, things like if she's spending a lot of personal time with her male boss or any other man, for one thing, as soon as you're dating this this woman, she should no longer be maintaining any kind of of intimate personal relationships with other men or spending any one-on-one time with other men at all.

And and if she's doing that, that's a problem. And if you express that it's a problem to her and she's not willing to give that up for you. Leave that. That's that's your red. That's all you need. You're gone. Skip the life overhaul of 2026. Just swap your snacks for ones with real ingredients like our sponsor massup. It's a clean eating without the massive diet. Massa's chips are refreshingly simple. Organic corn, sea salt, and 100% grass-fed beef tallow. That's all ingredient list. no ingredients that you need a chemistry degree to pronounce. But here's the thing, they're not just healthy chips that taste okay if you squint. They're legitimately delicious. Like, you're not making some noble sacrifice for your healthier. Uh, and my favorite flavor is their original. I think these chips are great. We always have a bag at home.

Plus, they're sturdy. Also, not some pathetic excuse of a chip that breaks immediately the second you dip into anything. Massive chips actually leave you feeling good. No crash, no bloat, none of that heavy, "Why did I do this to myself?" regret. Plus, you'll actually feel full instead of instantly craving another bag 5 minutes later. Ready to give Massa a try? Go to massach.com/walsh and use code walls for 25% off your first order or simply click the link in the video description or scan the QR code to claim this delicious offer.

Don't feel like ordering online? Mass is now available nationwide at your local Sprouts supermarket. Stop by and pick up a couple of bags before they're gone. If she seems to enjoy the attention of men who are not you while you're in a relationship with her, that's a red flag. If she's an egirl begging for attention online all the time, that's a red flag. These are all things that are fairly obvious and and you can identify them and sus them out if you keep your eyes open in most cases. Okay? Which is why a lot of a lot of cases like this when something happens and someone ends up, you know, man ends up married to a woman and she betrays him, you know, you you'll find me since we're always since we're talking about anecdotes, like you'll find very often that the man is shocked and appalled, but a lot of people around him are like, "Yeah, I'm not that surprised by that.

It's terrible. I I'm not that surprised because like even, you know, the people on the outside could tell kind of what this woman's all about." And if they could tell, then you also could have told. And yet, and yet risks do remain even in spite of that. I acknowledge that. But, but here's the thing. There are also risks on the other side. Risks to rejecting marriage and family life. And I don't just mean the risk of civilizational collapse. You know, Andrew Tate says he doesn't need marriage because he can get any woman he wants and have a bunch of kids and financially provide for all of them. And that may be true in his case. I still believe he and his children would be better off if he were married. But how many men would who take that advice will end up with a life that even vaguely resembles that?

1% less. I mean, the reality is that the vast majority of men who don't get married will not end up with a harm of attractive women. They'll end up alone, lonely, no wife, no children, and and little in the in the way of financial success anyway. Because most people are not financially successful. Most people who reject marriage will die broke and alone anyway. That's not merely a risk. For many, it's the outcome they're actively choosing. And they choose it because they fear that if they do get married, they might end up broke and alone.

And they might. But choosing a bad fate that is almost certain because you fear a bad fate that is merely possible is you want to talk about logic illogical. Now does that mean that a young man or woman should rush blindly and recklessly into marriage? No. There are risks involved. Again acknowledged should change laws and put policies in place that reduce those risks and offer greater protections against them. Anything worth doing involves risk? And if starting a family isn't worth doing, then what is? You know, for almost every man, fatherhood and marriage are a vocation given by God to lead, provide for, and love his own family. And you shouldn't let anything or anyone scare you away from it.

Now, you can avoid the Sarah Stocks of the world by abandoning the very idea of marriage. And if you're a woman, you can avoid the Elijah Schaefers by doing the same. But years from now, when you're on your deathbed, surrounded by no one, with no one to mourn you and no one to carry on your legacy and bloodline or even place flowers on your grave, will you feel relieved that at least you were never divorced? Will you be happy about the chance you didn't take? Or will you wish that you had given yourself to someone and created a family that would outlive you?

Because what was any of it for if not for that?

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "This Is What I Learned From The Sarah Stock Disaster"?

Matt Walsh (Host), Sarah Stock (Guest), Elijah Schaefer (Guest).

What is "This Is What I Learned From The Sarah Stock Disaster" about?

The content explores the profound benefits of marriage and family life, emphasizing love, legacy, and purpose as essential to human fulfillment and societal stability. It highlights a recent scandal involving conservative commentators that underscores the challenges and reluctance some young people feel towards commitment and family, prompting a deeper discussion on the significance of marriage…

What is mentioned in this Matt Walsh episode?

31 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Marriage, Family, Elijah Schaefer, Sarah Stark, Divorce, Western civilization. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "This Is What I Learned From The Sarah Stock Disaster"?

The episode runs 32 min; the transcript is about 5,734 words in 53 timestamped sections.

More from Matt Walsh

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 9, 2026.