Transcript

Disaffected Young Men, Michelle O's Hair Complaints, Moving Right - Charlie Sheen, VDH, and Posobiec

From Megyn Kelly · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 5 min · 22,204 words · 366 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Disaffected Young Men, Michelle O's Hair Complaints, Moving Right - Charlie Sheen, VDH, and Posobiec", an episode of Megyn Kelly published November 21, 2025 (2 h 5 min, about 22,204 words). It mentions 69 people, works and ideas, including Charlie Kirk, Nicholas Cage, Mount Rushmore, Glendale, Income inequality.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: Charlie Kirk, Alyssa Slotkin, Glendale, Jake Whitman
  2. – 30:00: Charlie Kirk, Mount Rushmore, Income inequality, gogevity.com/megan
  3. – 45:00: Charlie Kirk, Cognitive dissonance, Golden Girls, Human Events Daily
  4. – 1:00:00: Charlie Kirk, Hoover Institution, Antifa, Glendale
  5. – 1:15:00: Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, East Palestine, Ohio, Indian-Americans, Martha's Vineyard
  6. – 1:30:00: Riverben Ranch, Armra Colostrum, Martin Sheen, Nicholas Cage
  7. – 1:45:00: Nicholas Cage, Denise Richards, Pornography
  8. – 2:00:00: Martin Sheen, Real Housewives, Wild AF

Notable quotes from "Disaffected Young Men, Michelle O's Hair Complaints, Moving Right - Charlie Sheen, VDH, and Posobiec"

  • This was the stop that Charlie Kirk was supposed to join me on.
    about Charlie Kirk · at
  • There seems to be a lot of concern in the country now about income inequality.
    about Income inequality · at
  • Hi, Megan. I am wondering if you've ever taken your kids to see Mount Rushmore in South Dakota.
    about Mount Rushmore · at
  • You're inundated with pornography. And the pornography becomes more and more extreme. We know that Tyler Robinson was looking at pornography which involved furries and drawings which involved.
    about Pornography · at
  • Him. He's got tenure for life. That's the problem. He's the fellow at the Hoover Institution. He's a professor of the classics, which he had to explain to me the first time he…
    about Hoover Institution · at
  • I've been talking a lot about Riverbend Ranch because I love their stakes.
    about Riverben Ranch · at
  • Different level of I don't know what a Hollywood legend for so long. I was Martin Sheen's son and you know Millio was his brother.
    about Martin Sheen · at
  • No, no, no. But I forgot to ask you the other half of that, which is, we saw Sean Penn in the clip. Nick Cage was one of your best friends. Did those guys come back to you and…
    about Nicholas Cage · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Charlie Kirk — Person · 14 mentions · first at
  • Nicholas Cage — Person · 4 mentions · first at
  • Martin Sheen — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Jake Whitman — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Bakersfield thinking about Charlie. I know. Yes, he's here. That's right. He's here. And Jake Whitman, who's our great producer, he puts together these amazing like long…
  • Queen of England — Person · 1 mention · first at
    I'll tell you, I always joke that I see myself more like the Queen of England in that, how like all these prime ministers, they came and they went and the Queen was always still there. She had total job security. That's kind of how I see my.
  • Terry Maxwell — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Terry Maxwell from K&ZR. We did an interview a little while ago.
  • Alyssa Slotkin — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Fools. Absolute fools. Drama hungry, drama queen fools. Especially the horrible Alyssa Slotkin who should not be reelected by the Trump voters who put her in office. She's so…
  • Lance Twigs — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Dispossessed in our society, totally disenfranchised. You see this with Tyler Robinson, his trans boyfriend Lance Twigs, these downwardly mobile young white males who are…
  • Luigi Majioni — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Common. Think about this. And I mentioned this in the piece for Human Events. Luigi Majioni, Thomas Matthew Krooks, and Tyler Robinson.
  • Olivia Calchuk — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And Hayra, and she'll show you the thousands of people who were celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk. Go Olivia Calchuk was I think calling a lot of employers and Rudy Giuliani was calling a lot of employers.
  • Jay Jones — Person · 1 mention · first at
    None of those people exist. Well, ladies and gentlemen, 1.7 million people in Virginia just voted for Jay Jones after he had text messages saying that all of our children…
  • Harper Steele — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And so, and then the next guy I met was Shelby Steele.
  • Scott Atlas — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And the third guy I met was Scott Atlas.
  • Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett — Person · 1 mention · first at
    But they are so obsessed with him that they do the stu I mean Jasmine Crockett talking about Lee Zeldon and this other Dr. Epstein.
  • Zuran Mandami — Person · 1 mention · first at
    When we obsess on race and not class, which the Democratic Party does, it's absurd. It's like Mandami saying, I'm going to go after white affluent neighborhoods. And then you…
  • Denise Richards — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Emilio Estevez — Person · 1 mention
  • J. D. Vance — Person · 1 mention
  • Lee Zeldin — Person · 1 mention
  • Mark Halperin — Person · 1 mention
  • Randa Devine — Person · 1 mention
  • Steven L. Miller (Red Steeze) — Person · 1 mention
  • Thomas Matthew Crooks — Person · 1 mention
  • Victor Davis Hanson — Person · 1 mention
  • Walter Kirn — Person · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

Products & tech

  • Puberty blockers — Product · 1 mention · first at
    How do we stop puberty blockers in kids who are only seven years old?
  • Hound Dog — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Oh, Hound Dog, which I think was one of his first.
  • Golden Girls — Product · 1 mention · first at
    He's big into meditation. He's the son of the woman who created the Golden Girls.
  • UP Phone by Unplugged — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Bidder. It's not just annoying, it's invasive, and it's happening all the time. But the UP phone by Unplugged is different. It is designed to protect your privacy from the…
  • Armra Colostrum — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Might just be starving for the right fuel. That's why I want to tell you about Armra colostrum, which can help provide sharper energy, less bloating, faster workout recovery…
  • Real Housewives — Product · 1 mention · first at
    For those of you not paying attention, she was on Real Housewives. She married another man. She has alleged that he has been physically abuser to her. He has denied it. He accus her accuses her of being a hoarder. It's gotten very.
  • Wild AF — Product · 1 mention · first at
    The book while at the same time you know trying to bring an NA beer to the public, with Wild AF. and and we have it's currently shipping. nice. So, I said there's no way I can tackle any of this with.
  • Jevity Home Blood Marker Test — Product · 1 mention
  • Riverbend Ranch Black Angus Beef — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Income inequality — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
  • Pornography — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
  • Cognitive dissonance — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Start to blend your vision of what's reality and what is false reality. And because of the cognitive dissonance of not being able to actually achieve that in reality, it expresses itself in violence.
  • Indian-Americans — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Seconds and see which is the most affluent ethnic minority in the United States. Indian-Americans. That's right.
  • Bella Ciao — Concept · 1 mention
  • Civil War (U.S.) — Concept · 1 mention
  • DARVO — Concept · 1 mention
  • Islam — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • Mount Rushmore — Place · 3 mentions · first at
  • Glendale — Place · 2 mentions · first at
    Come on Saturday because she needs to be by her babes. So, we're gonna interview her in Glendale. But I can't help like every second since we landed in Bakersfield thinking…
  • Michigan — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Be reelected by the Trump voters who put her in office. She's so proud of herself cuz she's a Michigan. She's The same guys who put Trump in office elected me as a US senator.…
  • South Dakota — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Hi, Megan. I am wondering if you've ever taken your kids to see Mount Rushmore in South Dakota.
  • Rapid City — Place · 1 mention · first at
    I am. I drove here all the way from Rapid City to see you and my favorite cousin Tammy. I came to see her too here in Bakersfield.
  • New Jersey Shore — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Know, we have a place in Montana. We go there many, many weeks a year. We have a little place in the New Jersey shore where we go in the summer. We're surrounded by…
  • Quanico — Place · 1 mention · first at
    This country used to have a problem with serial killers. We set up units at the FBI. We set up units at Quanico.
  • Martha's Vineyard — Place · 1 mention · first at
    And she has four mansions. So when she's talking, I can't figure out whether she flew in from Martha's Vineyard, the Washington M mansion, the Chicago mansion, or the…
  • East Palestine, Ohio — Place · 1 mention · first at
    And you think of just to take an example, Selma, California, East Palestine, Ohio, where you have very poor people who happen to be white. And so what I'm getting at is when we obsess on race and not class,.
  • Selma, California — Place · 1 mention · first at
    And you think of just to take an example, Selma, California, East Palestine, Ohio, where you have very poor people who happen to be white. And so what I'm getting at is when we obsess on race and not class,.
  • Chicago (Obama residence) — Place · 1 mention
  • Crazy Horse Memorial — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

  • gogevity.com/megan — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Consultations on your schedule. This is healthcare independence and you get 20% off at gogevity.com/megan with code Megan. That's go geviti.com/megan because no one should control your health decisions but you.
  • unplugged.com/mk — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Are done being watched. Ready to take back your digital privacy? Visit unplugged.com/mk and get 25 bucks off a phone case with a purchase of a phone. Learn more and order your UP phone today. That's unplugged.com/mk.
  • riverbendranch.com — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Use the promo code Megan for 20 bucks off your first order. And let me know what you think. riverbendranch.com.
  • armra.com/megan — Sponsor · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

Hello, beautiful people. Oh, it's so good to be with you. I love you. Oh my gosh, it's so I love you guys so much. Thank you for standing out in the rain and the kind of cold for California weather to come and be with me. Sit down. Sit down. Please enjoy. We love you. Oh my gosh. Let me tell you. So, everybody's been asking me like, "So, how you feeling on the tour? Like, how's it going?" And I I keep saying the same thing. I'm enjoying it so much more than I even thought I would. Seeing you guys connecting with you here like this, it does feel like church to me, only better. You know, I I love my priest, but we got to work on the homalies a little. Um, it's just so uplifting. And you know what? Maybe you guys can feel it. Watching that video kind of reminds me. It was so much more fun when we were running to be in power, wasn't it? Now that like Trump's a year into governing and the right is fracturing, it's kind

of like kind of I don't feel so good, right? Do you know what I mean? Like I I love that Trump is president. I love what he's doing, but we're starting to get like a little divided. The Republicans always turn on each other, right? Always. You can take it to the bank. Someone always does something stupid and then we're like, why? Why does he have our team jersey anyway? It it happens every single time. It's almost more fun to be running to get into power than to actually have the power which will necessarily start dividing people. And I think a lot of us are feeling that right now. And there's sort of internal wars going on within the Republican party on, you know, things like Israel and so on. It's just it's like a little stressful. But I think we need to remember it's a blessing to have this problem, right? I mean, we could be looking at a Kla Harris president right now and think of how depressed we'd be then.

That would not be a fun four years in the opposition kind of thing. Like Joe Biden was so absurd with his comeomaos presidency that you kind of laughed a little. I mean, it was like laugh or cry. With her, I think we'd just be in full tears all the time. So, in any event, let's keep let's keep that in mind and let's understand like I'm going to be asking Victor Davis Hansen about this tonight. love VDH. Mark Halpern was sounding the alarm on like if we don't get these numbers up for Trump, especially when it comes to his economy uh and the approval rating on that, it's going to be a blood bath.

So, we have time. So, we'll ask VDH, who's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met, exactly how the president should do that. And the president does listen to VDH. We know this because he's made it very clear time and time again. So, maybe we'll make a difference tonight in the fate of our country. In a minute, we're going to do some Q&A, but I just wanted to start with this, you guys. Um, as I think you know, we have an amazing lineup. We have Jack Bobic, quite just adore. We have VDH. We have Charlie Sheen.

What a gentleman. Honestly, he was so wonderful meeting a lot of you guys backstage. But, as you know, we were supposed to be here tonight with a different Charlie. This was the stop that Charlie Kirk was supposed to join me on. I'm like getting emotional just thinking about it. It's only been two months since we lost him. And he wanted to come here. He we we would have taken Charlie anywhere, of course. And he said, "I'd love to come to Bakersfield." He felt a connection with you guys. He specifically asked for this stop. We said, "Of course, you know, we'd love to have you." And as you know, we we wound up booking Erica Kirk, who's going to come on Saturday because she needs to be by her babes. So, we're gonna interview her in Glendale. But I can't help like every second since we landed in Bakersfield thinking about Charlie. I know. Yes, he's here. That's right. He's here. And um Jake Whitman, who's our

great producer, he puts together these amazing like long montages for us on like the he did the with love Megan. He did the um he did our trips to space. He's a very talented producer and uh he put together just a short tribute to Charlie. So let's watch.

This is not just a flash in the pan movement. We're going to become an institution to give them the power and the confidence to stand up and let their voice be heard.

You started this when you were 18. Yeah. I had plans to go to college and uh instead I took a gap year and it's been a gap decade and it's been the most amazing journey. We as Christians are called to go into the public arena to correct error with truth.

If someone from the left comes up to the mic, let's treat them with respect. Let's not interrupt or scowl or boo them. Show the left the respect that we don't get on these college campuses. You're making a huge difference, not just in today's voters, but in the next upand cominging ones. I do feel there's something divine going on. You were chosen for some reason.

Well, I I I'm humbled. I'm far more interested in what God wants of me than what I want from God.

They just called it for Pennsylvania, Charlie. It is just called This is worth playing the moment that it was announced that Trump won.

Oh my gosh, I'm getting emotional thinking about it. The media said the Turning Point could never run a ground game. They weren't experienced. They didn't know Charlie, right?

This is the greatest generational realignment since Woodstock. This generation is the most conservative generation that we have seen in well over 50 years. What young people especially are screaming at is they say, "Give me a structure that I can live my life by. What can I do to save the country?" You answer that question every single day because you are doing the work to save this beautiful republic. You are doing something that is bigger than you.

If everything completely goes away, how do you want to be remembered? I want to be I want to be remembered for for courage for my faith. That that would be the most important thing. Most important thing is my faith in my life.

God bless you, Charlie. God bless him. God bless him. And God bless all of you for being here tonight in honor of him and to carry forth what was clearly his mission, which was to say the things to say them no matter how many people object to them and ideally to say them to those very people. That's going to be all of our mission is there's probably not a lot of people who can't stand the Megan Kelly show here tonight, right? That this tour is not set up the way the Turning Point tours were, but we all know people who don't feel as we do about these important issues. And it's it's up to all of us to continue Charlie's legacy of spreading the good word and and arguing our points respectfully and lovingly but forcefully and unapologetically.

Anyway, let's let's kick it off with some Q&A with you guys and then I'll do some Q&A with our guests on this stage. I'm so happy to be with you.

Get on up there. Sit in the front row of your life. It's fine. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it was my birthday.

Happy birthday, Megan. Thank you. My name's Heather. I'm here with my husband, Mike, tonight. Hi. Um, thank you to you and all of your guests that are regularly on your show for showing it us what it's like to the difference between a mediocre American citizen and an exceptional American citizen. You are that by far.

Thank you. Um, I wanted to give you a hypothetical. JD Vance might be our nominee in 2028. And I'm guessing that others are thinking what I'm thinking. But what if he calls you and he says, "Megan Kelly."

That's funny. I want you to be my running mate. Heather, you're funny. So, I got enough problems in my life. Um, I I'll tell you, I I always joke that I see myself more like like the Queen of England in that, you know, how like all these prime ministers, they came and they went and the Queen was always still there. She had total job security. That's kind of how I see my role. They come and they go, you know, Barack Obama, he used to be kind of a big deal. Now, I think I have more people coming on my tour than he could ever get on his.

So, I like where I am. Hi. Hi, Megan. Thanks for putting this together. Um my question is uh relates to something Walter Kern, your friend Walter and Matt Tibbe recently said,

which is that Trump's first administration was essentially um curtailed or or the left tried to um ruin it with this Russia Russia Russia with this idea that the uh president of the United States Trump was subject to a foreign power without any evidence. And their position is that this administration is facing the same thing with Israel, Israel, Israel, subject to a foreign power with really no evidence and fill in the blank with the anti-semitism. What do you have to say about that?

Well, I mean, I I see Trump's 2.0 0 being clouded by, you know, attempted lawfare for sure when he was running and now by non-stop lawfare challenging every single thing he does. And Epstein is just the latest example of it. You know, this like Epstein, I'm I'm all for like getting the Epstein files out, but it's just taking over now. And it's like just look what happened these past two weeks. Trump's right when he said it's completely smothered the narrative of how badly the Democrats did in the shutdown. They totally folded. And then what happened like the next day? They switched the story to Epstein as a distraction. And every day Trump's get he gets sued by yet another, you know, Democrat group or Democrat lawmaker to try to stop his agenda. And we have now all these judges at the district court level who are activists and trying to stop his agenda with their robes on. No one elected them to anything. So this is

his new battle. And I do see this as sort of Russia 2.0. happening at the courts and that's why I'm like on my knees every morning thanking God for this US Supreme Court.

Yeah. Hello. Hi Megan. We love you so much first of all and um you know we really love you Candace Tucker. I feel like I can truly trust you guys.

Thank you. And I just wanted to know your opinion on what Candace is saying about the Israeli planes following Erica around.

I don't know what that is. is I heard something about an Egyptian plane. I didn't hear about an Israeli plane. Yeah. But I only saw the headline and while you know I obviously I know that Candace makes a ton of news. I confess I don't actually get time to watch her show because I've got my own show and I've got my my my life and my kids. So forgive me. I don't I don't know the answer to that. But thank you for asking for the kind words.

Terry Maxwell from K&ZR. We did an interview a little while ago. Nice. Hi. Yes. Hi. Love your shirt. All right. I got a question about Arctic Frost and we've had these six people who have come out and uh really instigate an insurrection with our our military. Put your lawyers hat on and give us an input as to whether you think anything's going to happen with those two issues.

Yeah. Um you saw these lawmakers like trying to tell the troops to disobey some random illegal order that hasn't been given, right? It's like what what I mean the biggest thing I thought about that was it was an utter fail because I had no idea what they were telling them to disobey. you like is it Venezuelan drug drug boats? Is it like really have no clue? So, it was a fail. Um I don't know that it's going to go any place legally, but I think everybody should recognize that they're being governed by fools. Absolute fools. Drama hungry, drama queen fools. Especially the horrible Alyssa Slotkin who should not be reelected by the Trump voters who put her in office. She's so proud of herself cuz she's a Michigan. She's like, "The same guys who put Trump in office elected me as a US senator." That was a fail. It's a rare MAGA fail. She needs to be voted out of office as soon as humanly possible, which unfortunately is

not going to be for another few years because she's relatively new. But that's my quick thought on it. Go ahead, sir. Hi.

Hi, Megan. I'm Jim. Your best interviews are the ones where you're taking the left on headtohead. And I'm thinking Jake Tapper. I'm thinking Bill Maher. We love that because you're speaking for us and we imagine ourselves finally getting to hit the other side right where it hits and you don't back down. Can you have more interviews like that on your show? And if they don't go if the A-listers won't show up, I recommend go to the B- list, go to the C list, go to a college student who wants to get famous. Just we want to see the ideas defeated and you're the one to do it.

Oh, I love that. Thank you. You know, I don't do enough of that. You're right. whenever I have somebody on and we get into it, you know, like whatever. There was a clip of um I think it was Scott Gotle on there. Remember him during the the COVID lockdowns? He had been in the Trump administration that he was trying to run around tell us as a former Republican we could trust him when he said masks had to be on our toddlers. Like that was that was a fun one. I don't miss him, but I do miss those exchanges. Hello, sir.

Hi. Love the jacket. Thank you. It loves you back. It's amazing what you can get at Walmart these days. One serious, one light.

How do we stop puberty blockers in kids who are only seven years old? Yeah. Right on.

We're winning. We're winning. Right. Amen. I know I'm in the People's Republic of California,

but in the other world, we're winning that fight. And I think eventually it's going to have to be handled by the US Supreme Court. It cannot be a state-by-state thing. It's literal child abuse. They're literally sterilizing minors without any possible informed consent. It's barbaric. It's the new labbotomy. And we will look back at this day with shame. California needs to get on its act because you cannot have these far-left lunatics. You need still Steve Hilton. That's what you need. And he will help save this state and the children in it. But in the meantime, this is not an issue that we can be silent on. Our children are literally being sterilized. If you cannot speak up for that, you are failing in your responsibility as an American citizen as our first questioner said. So your second one quickly.

What's your favorite Elvis song? Oh, Hound Dog, which I think was one of his first.

Thank you. Dog. Hi, Megan. I'm Connor. I'm Chloe. Hi. And um I've heard you speak about the Epstein files and um there's a lot of young people talking about it and I kind of wanted to see how you uh or what you would say for the young people and trying to bring them in

on Epstein files like to to follow the coverage. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. Well, I mean, I think it's very interesting for young people and old, but especially for young people because I think what's really interesting about the Epstein story for a lot of people is how does our system, the those in power work to protect one another irrespective of a party? How does money and connections and fame and power all work together to get this web of protection across party lines? And who gets screwed over, right? Like because that same web that will work together to protect some very bad guys will work to screw you when it comes to property taxes and other taxes and the way government works and you know insider trading in in Congress. You know there are certain things that are so corrupt and disgusting they cross party lines that leave young people feeling like they can't trust anybody which is one of the

reasons why Trump came under such pressure to just release the files and sort of did. I mean, I wouldn't put too much stock in what we're about to get from uh these files because there's like enough exceptions to what Pam Bondi has to produce that you could drive a truck through. So, just keep your expectations moderate.

And then my last question was, what's like one piece of advice that you can give to young conservatives like ourselves to keep bringing more people in?

Don't be shy about your values. Don't hide it. You especially need that here out here in California. Do not hide it now thinking that, you know, when you graduate high school, when you graduate college, when you get your first job, and then leave that first job, then you'll finally be able to tell people about your conservative principles. No, you're seeding the fight. That's exactly what Charlie knew that the rest of us had been missing. Don't seed the fight for young people in particular. Get in there. You can do it better than I can.

They'll listen to you more than they'll listen to me. Become an effective messenger. Listen to the people who are effective messengers and learn the argument so well that you can rattle it off the top of your head with ease. You know, we we always said like in the law, if I had a longer time, I would have written a shorter brief. And the same thing it applies to rhetorical skills like study a lot, talk a lot, listen to people who argue well a lot, and then your arguing will get better and more succinct, and you'll be able to do it more effectively with the people who really matter.

Thank you. Hi. Hi, Megan. Love you. Love you. Okay. How do we feel about Tucker having Nick Fuentes on his show? A lot of people want to know that. Did you hear what she said? How do we feel about Tucker having Nick Fuentes on his show? Um, you know, I asked Tucker about it. And my own belief is the reason he did it. This is not from him, but my belief is that the reason he did it was because he wanted to convey to him that it is not conservative to apply collective judgment or punishment to any group of people. And Nick Fuentes does that not only with Jews, but he does it with blacks, he does it with women, he does it with Indians, he I mean like there's a whole host of groups that he does it with. And my own belief is that Tucker thought, given Tucker, who's more of an elder statesman now in the party, that he had a shot at reaching Nick Fuentes. And my own belief is that that's also why Tucker did not emerge

with Nick Fuentes's jugular. That he thought that would defeat the point, right? Like if you're trying to reach somebody, how are you going to do that if you put them on the defensive right away? like here are all the terrible things you said. And so if you look at it from that standpoint, I think you understand it. Now, do I want to interview Nick? I don't. Not at all. Because if you watch Nick Fentes, you will hear a lot of really horrible things. And it's very jarring. Like he's he's he's smart. I I don't take that away from him. He's got a very compelling way of speaking and like delivery. And he's actually made a lot of predictions about what's going to happen in the country politically that are correct. And I don't I don't dismiss the fact that he's very popular, especially with young disaffected men who we need to be talking to and understanding as opposed to just judging. But if you spend enough time

listening to him, you will hear things that will make your eyelids peel back from your I mean, it's like really jarring, upsetting characterizations of Jews and blacks and women and all the things. Not to mention his hatred for Charlie. So, go ahead.

But was Tucker a little easy on him? No, I don't think he was. I think he had a different goal than to like beat up on him. So if if he if that were his goal, he'd know how to do it. We saw him do that with Ted Cruz.

Yeah. Hi. Hi there. Thank you for being part of the revival and modeling how to share our voices. I really appreciate it. Um two things, three things, sorry. Uh first question is when you were a child, what was your favorite?

Maybe just pick one because the line is long. Second one is really big to me. Okay. Um, I'm starting to see um, Islamic coming into California and I see these girls and women being covered. How do we legally fight their invasion? And then

that's a good question. Apologies. There's so many people standing behind you. Um, that is a good question. I think the first thing is we have to be real honest about what we want in our country. Um, and I I I just think it's fine to say to be honest about the fact that I I don't think Islamic leaders are appropriate for American cities. Islam is not consistent with the values of the West. It's just not. Above all, it's a political doctrine. It's not just a religion. It's a political doctrine. And there's no ch there's no separation of church and state in Islam. They don't respect women's rights in Islam. They don't respect free speech in Islam. And while you know if that's your thing and you're you happen to be a Muslim okay fine but I just don't think this is the place for you to actually obtain a position of political power and I think we need to be honest about that. Go ahead ma'am.

Hi I'm Vicki. Hi. Um there seems to be a lot of concern in the country now about income inequality. I was wondering if you thought there should be any restraints on unfettered capitalism and if so what should they be?

Thank you for that. I don't think there should be restraints on unfettered capitalism really. I mean, I think capitalism is the way. And I'm really not pro the communist movement that's taking over places like New York. Um, I don't believe with Zoran Mamani that we shouldn't have billionaires. This is the United states of America. You can come with nothing and you can wind up a billionaire only here. Only here. It's one of the majesties that that is, you know, this country that there is still, I know a lot of people don't feel it, but there is still the possibility of the American dream. And it's what gives people hope. It's why we have amazing inventors. It's why we invent everything. Who like I went over to Scandinavia a couple years ago, like what do they what do they invent like OMIC? That was good. What else? Right?

We we do it all because of capitalism and the promise of changing your life. So, I don't think I understand in income inequality and a whole lot needs to be done to help the bottom up. Uh, and I don't mean government handouts, but I mean like just the way we're educating people right now in general for one thing, but the answer is not to hurt the people who have made it at the top. All right, we'll take one more and then we got to get the show on the road.

Hi, Megan. I am wondering if you've ever taken your kids to see Mount Rushmore in South Dakota.

We have. Yes. Oh, yay. Yeah. We're so glad you can make South Dakota. I am. I drove here all the way from Rapid City to see you and my

and my favorite cousin Tammy. I came to see her too here in Bakersfield. Nice Tammy. Thank you for helping get this wonderful lady to us to

talk to you. We did go to Mount Rushmore and we saw Crazy Horse too which we had never seen. Have you seen the Crazy Horse monument in the in it's way bigger than Mount Rush Rushmore. So have this Native American. It's like an it's stunning display. And we do try to take our kids to places other than the Northeast. You know, we have a place in Montana. We go there many, many weeks a year. We have a little place in the New Jersey shore where we go in the summer. We're surrounded by firefighters and school teachers. What we really don't want is our kids to grow up spoiled brats who think, you know, everybody's got a private jet, which, you know, in our town in in Connecticut, some people do.

Uh, and it's very very important to us that they they try to grow up as normal as possible. But I I love the story. I've told this before, but we were out in Montana at a radio a rodeo one time and our little guy, who's 12 now, was probably six. And uh we're sitting there and at the beginning of the rodeo in Montana, you know, they're going to sing the national anthem. And uh Thatcher was a little slow to his feet and it I didn't have to say one word. There was a real cowboy with the hat and the shirt and the jeans. He was like, "You better get up, boy."

I mean, oh immediate. I was like, "I could do no better. This is my village." Right. Anyway, so it is important. We loved Mount Rushmore. So worth your time. I love it so much. I'll tell you there's one thing uh and then we'll then we'll go. We're having a big Fourth of July celebration this year as we always do. You know, we bring out our colonial costumes. We reenact the Declaration of Independence. We we go full boore. And Abby knows, my assistant knows the one thing I've always wanted for the celebration, but I've never been able to get is a huge paperier-mâché of Mount Rushmore. I want to stuff it in the back of my lawn. You know, how cool would that be to walk around? And then she got back to me. She said, "I finally found somebody who can do it." I'm like, "Great. This is the year." and she shot me an email yesterday saying it will cost $18,000 and I said it's a no.

We'll hire a guy to walk around in like a Lincoln costume. That's the closest we're going to get. Okay, let's go. We want to get on to with the show. Thank you guys. Thanks so much for those great questions. So, my first guest and I actually have a very interesting back history. We used to hate each other. I thought he was crazy. He thought I was crazy. We sniped at each other on Twitter. We did not like each other. We had like surrogates who would snipe at each other about how terrible I was or how terrible he was. And so the love I have for Jack Pobic grew naturally, if somewhat slowly over the years. And you won't be surprised at all to learn the person who ultimately brought us together was Charlie Kirk. So what happened was as we got closer to the Trump era and I became sane again after that ridiculous stint at NBC and I started to realize like how crazy the left was. I completely started to understand Trump

much better and became a true Trump fan. We kind of started to appreciate appreciate each other's Twitter game. You know I was liking a lot of his stuff. He started to like some of my stuff too. I thought, "Oh my god, we actually might we might be able to connect this guy and I we actually might be able to be friends." And then it happened, as it does with so many, that we met backstage at a turning point event and we hugged and Charlie was right there and I knew that a friendship had been born. And now he has my back all the time on X and I have his too.

And I follow him religiously because he posts so many pearls of wisdom that I learn from all the time, which doesn't surprise me because he was in the Navy. He served his country with honor and he's been fighting for his country in a different way ever since. Here's a little bit about Jack Bobic. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. We talk a lot about personal responsibility on this show. Well, here's one aspect that's really important, your health. And I'm not talking about following whatever the experts recommend. I'm talking about real datadriven decisions based on your body's actual numbers. We demand transparency in government, but most of us have no idea what's happening inside of our own bodies. Disease can develop silently for years before symptoms appear. By then, you're playing catch-up with expensive treatments instead of

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We're not at a good time in this country. You need to take a stand and you need to pick a side now. Doing the normie thing of sitting around and thinking things are going to get better. They're not. They're not going to get better on their own. To the world, Charlie Kirk was conservative fire brand hero, cultural icon. But to me, he was my friend.

For Charlie's sacrifice for all of us, we will overcome their evil. The bullets are only going in one direction in this country. You know what you didn't see? You didn't see violence. You didn't see a single person raise a fist in anger. You didn't see a single person on the right come out and say, "I'm going to go do something violent in retaliation for Charlie." It just didn't happen because we are not those people. Stop being the silent majority. You've got to speak out now.

And we will never ever let them forget the name Charlie Kirk. I tell the story, didn't you?

I did. It's so fun. Here. There. You're You're right. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's a fun story because we overcame it, you know. We did overcome it. Thanks to Charlie. She had to tell the story. She had to put me on blast, didn't she?

But I mean, maybe you have a relationship like that in your life where you feel like, "Oh, no, no, we don't like each other. There's no way forward." Maybe there is. Maybe you can find just a couple of lily pads, as I like to say, where you can jump on together. And then before you know it, you're swimming in the pond.

But you know what? That was what that's what Charlie did. And Charlie did that all throughout the movement. And we see so much even right now. There's there's a lot of dissension. There's a lot of infighting that's going on. And you realize that Charlie would always try to find a way to take people who may be on different sides of an issue or maybe just had some uh you know some bad interaction and he would find a way to build that bridge because Charlie understood that it was about all of us fighting together and we are up against billionaires. We are up against psychopaths. And I'm not just talking about Gavin Newsome. But but he understood he understood that if we were ever going to succeed, we had to do so together.

And and I appreciate you having me here, Megan, because and and I I don't know if everyone I'm sure most people realize this. I'm not supposed to be sitting on the stage right now. Charlie Kirk is supposed to be sitting on this stage right now. And he's not here because of them.

Yeah. And we are not going to ever rest and we are not going to ever stop and we are not going to ever let them forget the name of Charlie Kirk.

That's right. Or bismerch it. Right. The the war to define his legacy is on. And they try to smear him every day on the left in the New York Times and MSNBC and beyond. and his friends, his true friends have all been out there fighting back against it. But I don't know, Jack, I I've told others this. I think I've told you this. When you stood up at Charlie's funeral with the rosary beads in your hand like that, just it was like a Malcolm X almost like pose with the rosary beads. I felt better. And when I talked to you and Benny Johnson backstage that day of Charlie's Memorial, you guys said something that actually made me feel comforted for the first time. And this may sound kind of weird because everyone knows I'm not a shrinking violet and I'm not afraid of a fight, but I felt so much better because we were having a debate right then about whether we should reach out to the left.

We needed to reach across the aisle and like extend the hand or whether it was a time to fight because they were literally murdering us now. And you guys said you were pissed. You guys were angry at the loss of Charlie. And you guys said, you know, no offense, but it's time to let the men handle things right now. And I loved it. I loved it. It was It wasn't actually about men. It was about fighters. It was about This is a time for for fighting.

Look, you come to situations and you hope that you can solve things with with words, and Charlie tried to do that. You hope you can solve things with debate. And that's what our great country is all about. But when someone decides to stop using the ballot box and then what do we see in this country? They went to the jury box with President Trump and the lawfare and hundreds of thousands really of patriots. And then when that still didn't work and they continued to lose power, they switched to the bullet box. and you had this guy climb up on a roof and take a shot and kill Charlie Kirk. And when I see something like that happen, I say, "Look," and CNN asked me about this and I they're probably not going to invite me back on anytime soon. That's okay.

You're good. And yeah, I'll be all right. I'm not going to lose sleep. And I said, "Look, I'm more than happy to unite with anyone who wants to have a conversation, but if you support that, like the thousands of people that we saw laughing about it and cheering about it, then I am not interested in uniting with you, I am only interested in defeating you." Right? I have felt since that day, not accidentally, that there's like I don't know, there's an evil in the air. Like there do you guys have you felt it at all? like there's something there's sort of a Paul that's been cast over us since then as I I think we're actively fighting demons that are that are struggling for the souls of our fellow Americans and and that are getting some of them.

That's why you have that woman doing the right like that woman I I really feel like a demon is involved there.

A teacher, right, who's got little children in her classroom all day. What? Talk about those rosary beads. Like, how do we protect ourselves? How do we find

You mentioned You mentioned the rosary beads. So, I had to I had to get them here tonight and bring them. And Megan, because I you said something so nice on your show the other day about them, I figured why not bring an extra set that I could give you.

Oh my god. Thank you. Oh, they're so beautiful. Thank you. Oh, they're so beautiful. They just feel empowering. This has uh right in the center there that has St. Michael the Archangel right there.

Defend us in battle. And and for folks who know the St. Michael prayer, it's it's St. Michael the Archangel. Defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, through the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. And that's

Amen. That's it. Thank you. This means so much to me. Of course. Thank you. You joined Turning Point. Uh what year was it? 2021.

It was. Yeah. So, I was doing events back to 2018 and then but I didn't formally join until 2021. And that's when we started the show Human Events Daily and and Charlie and Tyler came and said, "Hey, we want to do this this idea. We want to expand into media and do news and we want you to be want you to be that guy." And I said, "I, you know, I'd be honored to do it. I don't know if anyone's going to watch, but I'm, you know, I'm happy to do it and let's keep going." And then Charlie had his show and I had my show and it just grew and grew. So, one of the things you've clearly figured out in your time with Turning Point, with Charlie, out on the road with Turning Point is maybe what's going on with young men.

Yeah. In America. And you actually had a really interesting piece this week talking about that and also talking about the trans furry thing

that we keep seeing, right? We saw it. We know that Charlie's accused assassin was dating a man who was both a trans and an alleged furry. You know, I mean, alleged because that's not a thing. Neither is trans. Um, and now we heard that Yes. And now we hear the same about the Butler shooter who himself was they them and into furry culture. And you're the first person I heard really talk about those two strains in a way that might actually explain why some of these men, these disaffected young white men are falling prey to that insanity which then leads to violence.

Yeah. So, and and this is, you know, like you you you're close to these stories and you try to analyze it objectively and it's and it's tough, but at the same time, you have to look at the facts and follow the facts where they lead. And and we know on the face of it that this this furry culture and and more of this transgender culture comes up in both cases. And what's interesting is it's also, I think, an aspect of transhumanism. And transhumanism is of course this idea that we can transcend our human bodies. And Yuval Harrari talks about this and he goes over to the World Economic Forum a lot. And what it means is that they sell this idea that you can become something which you are not. And that's really what it comes down to. And it's a break with reality. And a break with reality if you go to the classic textbook definition psychologically is psychosis. That is a that is the definition of what a psychotic uh break

with reality is a rejection of reality. A man cannot become a woman. A woman cannot become a man. It's physically impossible. A a a human being cannot. Which is true. This is true.

And I know to say that in a California is a revolutionary act. I suppose Gavin, I'm here by the way. I promised I'd come by.

And and to to attempt to turn yourself into an animal is also impossible. And so, and yet there's this kind of toxic situation where young men, particularly young white men, have been so completely dispossessed in our society, totally disenfranchised. You see this with Tyler Robinson, his trans boyfriend Lance Twigs, these downwardly mobile young white males who are castigated by society, are told that everything that is wrong with society is their fault. They see program after program set up for every other race and ethnicity and gender other than them. And they start to disconnect from reality. They see the economic situation not being good for for Gen Z and for young people. So they disconnect with reality and and you look at what what do all of them have in common. Think about this. And I I mentioned this in the piece for Human Events. Um Luigi Majioni, Thomas Matthew Krooks, and Tyler Robinson.

They were all in high school during COVID. They were all in. So, so imagine you're in that situation. Now, you can't leave your home. You're locked in. You've got your cell phone. You've got that little piece of glass right in front of you. So, if you can't go into the outside world, what do you do? You go into the virtual world. And you're then inundated. And Charlie spoke about this. You're inundated with pornography. And the pornography becomes more and more extreme. We know that Tyler Robinson was looking at um pornography which involved furries and drawings which involved

stuff young animals, human animal creatures like almost like a form of child pornography. And at some point you start to blend your vision of what's reality and what is false reality. And because of the cognitive dissonance of not being able to actually achieve that in reality, it expresses itself in violence.

So, how do we even begin to go about finding those guys and helping them? Well, I think, you know, I think you have to put it in different buckets. Um, this country used to have a problem with serial killers. We set up um units at the FBI. We set up units at Quanico. There's there's movies about this. You know, you can go watch them. and we understood and unpacked what it was that made the serial killer tick and we went after them. We set up behavioral sciences to get them off the streets. So for the ones that are becoming incredibly and more increasingly violent, you have to get them off. Look, the New York Post had Randa Divine had the story this week. Thomas Matthew Krooks was conducting Google searches in his true name asking about how to kill Donald Trump, how to look up the distance from Butler, what type of shot was JFK and how far and Oswald and all this other stuff. It's all out there.

And yet the FBI was more interested in going after parents who were at school boards that didn't want trans in the classroom and Catholics who were praying the rosary a little bit too hard. That's what our FBI was doing. And if our FBI had actually been focused on this threat the way it was, then Donald Trump would not have been shot in Butler and Charlie Kirk would be sitting right here and not me.

Yes, that's absolutely right. And and I would say and just in addition to that though, in addition to that, you also so get the ones off the street that are too far gone. Lock them up. Don't just medicate them. They actually need to be under intensive care. Rebuild the mental institutions of course.

And Yes. And you in California know that better than others. Yes. And then you don't want people getting lost in our false reality. So that means we have to make actual reality better for young people, for Gen Z. You have to have a pathway to ownership, to equity, to being able to get on your feet in society today. And that means making the economy better. That means getting rid of the 30 million illegal aliens that are probably just here in California and you know across the entire country because how can we possibly expect people to go into a society that is so messed up.

And I would add one other thing to that which is wokeism must die. Of course, these young men cannot hear one more day of they have some original sin as a result of what happened in this country 200 years ago that they must bear that will not get them into a good college program or get them into a good trade or get them a wife because they've been dubbed toxically masculine. All of that must stop. Has to stop if we want to rescue an entire generation of young men. Thank God it it started with President Trump getting reelected. I wanted to show you something that made the news today. This is Sam Harris. Do you guys know who that is? Sam Harris.

Yeah. So you do. Um Sam Sam's a big fan of mine. He loves me. So Sam Harris is uh considers himself an intellectual type. Um he's an atheist. He's big into meditation. He's the son of the woman who created the Golden Girls.

Yes. Yeah. So um and he's very good on certain things. Like if you ever look at the old clips of Sam Harris on Bill Maher talking about the problem of Islam, he will tell it like it is. Um, however, he's got a serious case of TDS and he's apparently also got some Charlie Kirk derangement syndrome that affected his commentary um today on this soundbite. Take a listen to this.

There's no party left of center, real party for political assassination. And yet, right of center, very prominent people from the president and Elon down treated it like the first shot fired in the Civil War. totally irresponsible, totally dishonest. I mean, they were these were these people were arsonists pretending to be firefighters. I Elon jumped on on X within minutes before I think before Kirk was declared dead. Certainly before his his killer was caught and said the left is the party of murder. It's beyond reckless. I mean, it's just sociopathic. It's just he he is just flinging matches into a a landscape that has been just soaked in gasoline. Uh and the soaking has been done mostly by Trump and Trumpism.

So discussing the actual murder of Charlie Kirk, you heard he was full of blame for whom? Not the left. He excused them for Elon and Trump who he said were arsonists desri dis disguising themselves as firemen. Your thoughts on it?

Well, what's what's he's doing here is very clear example of victim blaming and he's also I I love this because who is the real victim in the murder of Charlie Kirk? Is it Charlie? No. Is it Erica? No. Is it the children? No. It's Sam Harris. Sam Harris thinks that he's the one who's the victim. the same way the leftists always play the victim card every single time no matter what has happened. And what he's using here is a technique which is known as Darvo. And Darvo is something that narcissists and leftists I know I repeat myself are are do all the time. It is it's simple. You it's called deny attack and then reverse victim and offender. So deny say that that didn't happen. You attack the you attack back. So you counter punch and then you reverse victim and offender.

Once you see this tactic, you will see the left use it over and over again. And that's always what Sam Harris does. Now, I could show you videos, by the way. Uh, we all could go, if you don't believe me, go look at my friend Libs of Tik Tok and and Hayra, and she'll show you the thousands of people who were celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk. Go Olivia Calchuk was uh was I think calling a lot of employers and Rudy Giuliani was calling a lot of employers. And yet they will still sit there and look you square in the face and lie to you and say,"None of that ever happened.

None of those people exist." Well, ladies and gentlemen, 1.7 million people in Virginia just voted for Jay Jones after he had text messages saying that all of our children should be made to die so that we will feel pain and that we then may change our stance on policy. We have a huge problem in this country and the bullets are only flying one way.

That's right. And what did Elon say that wasn't true. What did he say? He blamed the left and he was exactly right. Charlie's shooter, accused shooter is of the left and that's very clear no matter what the left say.

The bullet casing said, "Hey, fascist catch." And the other casing said Bella Chow on it. And Bella Chow is the international anthem of Antifa.

God bless you. Thank you for leading with faith, with love, but with toughness. That's exactly what we need.

Thank you. And Megan, if you would if you would indulge me, I uh today's actually and I know you're going to see her on Saturday, but today's actually Erica's Kirk's birthday.

And uh I was wondering if you guys could all join me in saying happy birthday to Erica.

Oh, I love that. All right, sing it loud cuz I'm not a good singer. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear. Happy birthday to you.

That's beautiful. Thank you. Awesome. Right. Sorry, but that's what we need. Like I we as like I see Jack as like the red meat of our party. You know, you need red meat. You know you I guess somebody has has to be the broccoli, too. Somebody's got to be the martini. I'll do that. That you need the red meat, too. And that, of course, leads me to Victor Davis Hansen. I know. He's so great. If you know somebody more brilliant than Victor Davis Hansen, then you know better people than I do because honestly, like there are a lot of great guests that we have on the MK show, but there is not a single guest who is smarter than VDH.

You know, he's a professor at Stanford University. It's amazing they still have him. He's got tenure for life. That's the problem. He's the fellow at the Hoover Institution. He's a professor of the classics, which he had to explain to me the first time he came on to my show what the hell that is. is I didn't even I went to public school as you know. Um and he's been educating us all ever since. He is beloved by Donald Trump and I think by all of us. Take a look at VDH. Ever notice those creepy ads that pop up on your phone and seem to know exactly where you've been, what you've bought, even what you've been talking about?

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unplugged.com/mk. Because your life should be yours, not theirs. All right, let's go. Isn't it great to be together? It's so great to see you. You're not alone. It's only the liberal media and the haters who want you to think that. We're in the majority right now. We're from Chicago. We flew in just for this.

I was like, we have to go. And then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go.

Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megan Kelly Live tour. It's a very important time in our country Megan.

Stand firmly. Do not waver on the truth. Next stops, Bakersfield, Anaheim, and the grand finale in Glendale, Arizona, featuring special guest Erica Kirk. I really genuinely feel like it's more important right now than ever, you know, for all the reasons. And it took courage for all of you to come.

The biggest thing we can do is be unafraid. So go get your tickets right now before they sell out. Megan Kelly.com. Presented by Yi and SiriusXM. I'm holding here my formerly nicotine stained fingers. A column written today by Victor Davis Hansen.

I want to just read you a quote by Victor Davis Hansen. Victor Davis Hansen in the National Review.

Victor Davis Hansen writes of the president today. A great gentleman Victor Davis Hansen.

You were one of the first intellectuals to support Donald Trump. He just spoke to the people. We had to fight back and not be worried what people said.

Dr. Fouchy, he's told us masks are essential. They're not essential. One mask is okay. No, two is better. I just lied because it was for your own good.

I like to torture you. BDH, look at this. It's kind of like an athlete that never lifts weights or never runs.

Unbburdened by what has been. She just is intellectually lazy. Leticia James' grand niece. Here she is. Victor, are you familiar with the website only fans, my friend? Have you have you heard?

No, I have not. Okay. During the Reagan years, that was a very liberating period.

Make America great again. With all due respect to his memory and legacy, I don't think he did as much in 8 years as Donald Trump has done it.

We're going to win so much you may even get tired of winning. He's not done yet. He's indestructible.

One, the only Victor Davis Hansen. So fun. Yes. The legend. Look at this. Look at that. A They love you, Victor. A You guys are so sweet. Look at that. Welcome. They love you.

I have a confession to make. Tell me. I've always lived in Fresno County. I was born in the same house.

But I've always preferred Bakersfield to Fresno. Oh, and there it is. Victor, what do you Let me pick up with you where I left off with Jack. What do you make of that Sam Harris coming out and saying that the issue with respect to Charlie's death is that um Elon sent out a tweet blaming the left and that Trump was too incendiary around it and that these were arsonists pretending to be firemen. That that's really the issue.

I didn't hear that last part that that there were they were arsonists pretending to be firemen Trump and Elon after after Charlie Kirk died. And really the issue was their rhetoric. their rhetoric around Charlie's murder, not the leftist rhetoric that got him killed.

Yeah. Um I don't really pay attention to any of that. Not to sound sanctimonious, but Charlie Kirk, if I could just say something about him, he did two things that nobody else will ever do that I in my lifetime. And the first was he told leftwing le he said to people all over campuses in America 18 to 30 he said you have a natural rebellious nature and I want you to encourage that because the establishment is not the conservative establishment the left is the establishment so it's natural to rebel not just because you're young but because you're logical and these people are crazy

and that was very unique. The other thing is he didn't go to college and graduate and yet he goes to the Oxford Debate Union and he takes on supposedly the most sophisticated people in the English speaking world and he shows that you don't have to go to college to show how uneducated a lot of people in college are. And it's like I've spent 50 years in academia with PhDs and then I was given a great gift to be live on a farm and that schizophrenia. I would come from the academic world and I was told how smart they were and then I saw what farmers did and I knew how stupid they were because there's nobody smarter than a farmer. He's a mechanic. He's a genius.

He does everything but not academics. And Charlie knew that. And yet you spent a lifetime in this crazy environment. So how did they never pull you leftward?

Uh I have a twin brother that doesn't speak to me. So uh it pulled everybody in my in my generation and my family. Um I I had a great gift when I was 17. My parents were very practical and they said there's a new campus. It's called UC Santa Cruz and it's the closest one. all three of you guys can go there and you'll save money. So I went there and it was a communist crazy place and so you either had two choices to join them or to rebel against them and I rebelled against them and I came home.

But but how did you understand it? Right? Because you look at, you know, these judges who go on the Supreme Court and they get sucked into the Georgetown Party Circuit and then suddenly they need to be loved by the leftist Washington Post. And certainly a professor like on a university campus like Stanford, the a lesser man would have submitted to the leftist dogma long ago. So I don't get it. Like how did you do? It was a great I I wish I could take credit, but I can't because the first thing I did when I got to the Hoover Institution, I taught 21 great years at Cal State Fresno, I loved it there, but I was burned out. So, I got to uh Hoover and this strange guy called me up and he said, "I like what you write. We're going to have lunch twice a month for the next 15 years." It was Tom Soul.

Oh, Thomas Soul. And I never met a more brilliant guy. And so, and then the next guy I met was Shelby Steele.

Wow. And the third guy I met was Scott Atlas. Oh my gosh. And I said, "These people are so much brighter than the entire Stanford faculty." So, I never had a doubt. And then when people said, "Well, this person says you're crazy or this person says you're a farmer hick or this person says you belong back at Fresno State." I would say Tom Scott what's the real so I had a group of people who I admired and they were brilliant so I was very lucky

very very lucky I had wonderful parents my parents uh my grandfather lived on a farm for five four generations and he had three daughters and he mortgaged this little farm and sent them to Stanford University and so my mom 19 42 had two um degrees from Stanford. Then she went to law school there and then she went back

and became a mom with three kids and worked on the farm. Yeah. And then she became the

And you still have the farm, the raisin farm. Yeah. So she was I got a good The good thing about that was because they had gone to college, the first in generation,

they kept saying, "Don't be warped by college. Do not you have to work." I came home the first semester. I said, "Hey, I I know. Hey, I I'm going to take Latin." And my father said, "Do you know how to weld? Do you know how to wire the dehydrator?" And uh when I graduated,

maybe a little more practical. Yeah. I graduated with a PhD at 25. And I came home and I I didn't even go to the graduation. I had to work at a farm. And my dad said, my brother was kind of a smart, very bright guy, very smart, but kind of smart alaki. So I came back and said, "I have a PhD in classics from Stanford." And he said to my dad, "He's like a dog that can dance on two legs. It's really impressive, but nobody knows what it's for."

All right, let's let's talk a little politics because I promised the audience earlier I was going to ask you this question. Uh, I heard my pal Mark Halprin on Next Up with Mark Halpern on the MK Media podcast network uh talking this morning about the latest Fox News poll that shows only 15.15% of the American population says that their financial situation has improved as a result of Trump. and he said if the numbers stay like this on Trump's economic approval, it's going to be a bloodbath in November. That not only could Republicans, they will lose the House, but they could lose the Senate, too. So, your thoughts on how Trump turns that around.

Well, [clears throat] no president has ever been as wonderful as Trump has done overseas. Nobody No president has ever been reelected on foreign policy.

George W. George HW Bush had that fantastic first Gulf War 1991 [snorts] four days he destroys Saddam's land army. He's pulling at 90% and he loses to Bill Clinton because Clinton says we're and we weren't we were in a mild recession in '92 but he said it's the Great Depression and for all of that foreign. So if you actually look at the statistics over four years Joe Biden averaged 5.2% 2% inflation every year. This Trump came in, it was 3.0. This month it was 3.0. They think the economy may grow at 4% GDP. He came in at two.

He's got uh a very good inflation rate comparatively. But what the left is saying is we were in power for four years and we raised prices by 21.5%. And you've been in office 10 months and you haven't reduced them. It's your fault. And he can't get that message out. So what he needs to remember what James Carville, the economy is stupid. the Epstein files. All that matters is to try to remind everybody what he's done, what he did in the first term, but more importantly, what he's doing next year. What what he's doing right now has long-term implication. I'll just get very quickly, he's already pumping 1 million barrels of oil. We've never pumped more than 14 million. He's going to go to 16.

He's never done more natural gas. We are the largest natural gas and and oil producer in the world. Second, I don't know if he's art of the deal exaggerating when he says he has 20 trillion in foreign investment. Let's say it's half 10. Last year Biden he had 79 billion. So we've never had that before. We've never had that.

You guys know this. Trump is using the tariffs to negotiate deals in which these countries that he he jack he jacks up the tariffs then he says I'll lower them by half. But you have to invest a bunch of money in American manufacturing, create jobs here. So he's gotten somewhere between 10 and 20 trillion dollars of investment in America whereas never even got a one trillion.

So what I'm getting at is and then he's going to have this continuation of the big beautiful tax cut and the deregulation. You deregulate the economy, you give tax cuts, you got all of this, not just the oil revenue and the export, and he's dealing with the tariff income as you said, and gas energy prices are already growing now. They were 348 a gallon during the four years of Biden. They're already at 298, not here, but nationwide. So, what I'm getting at is if he can survive and get that message out and you're going to have a lot of psychological lift with the world uh cup and the 20 250th annivers kick in in June or July and he'll be fine if

they stick to the message and that is the economy was terrible when we came in, we made it better and now it's getting good and get the message out. Um, I feel like the message is not Epstein related.

But we're in that morass now. So, how does that play out? Because the Democrats, they're loving swimming in that pool. They're loving it a little bit less now that Larry Summers has been outed as the chief friend of Jeffrey Epstein. You guys saw this. Former president of Harvard, former Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton, also worked for Barack Obama. and the first real name to come out, not as somebody who was like receiving trafficked girls, but who was bffs with Jeffrey Epstein long past the time when we knew what a disgusting scumbag he was. The the Miami Herald piece broke in November of 2018.

And he's sending Jeffrey Epstein messages like a small school girl asking for his hair to be braided, two months later, all the way up to the day before Jeffrey got arrested. Now he's stepped down from all of his duties at Harvard. He's not teaching his classes anymore. So, we'll see whether the left continues to love the Epstein story as much as they currently do. But how do you see that playing out over the next year or so?

I I don't know if people were accurate when they said Trump was playing five dimensional chess or whatever they claimed, but he did have a big news and they put their neck in it. Right. Well, that I mean is he communicated uh with Jeffrey Epstein before he was a convicted sexual assaulter and then he broke it off before he was convicted. These people and there 80% of the textual trove has references in a case of political affiliation with Democrats but most of them if you look that what the news says most of them are after he was convicted. Yeah.

So basically they said and convicted like he pleaded guilty to solicitation of sex with a minor prostitute which as you always know what do I say?

That is not a thing. A minor cannot be a prostitute. That's child rape. So he pleaded guilty to that in 2008. They all knew it. Katie Kurrick, she knew it. Now she's trying to say, "Oh, I didn't know when I went to his townhouse for dinner that time." George Stephanopoulos knew. They all knew. They just decided to overlook it because he was rich as f.

Yeah. I I don't get it. They they have control of the files, so-called files for four years under Biden. And they know because they have access to them that most of the people who are mentioned are Democrats. And they know that most of the people who are Democrats who are mentioned are mentioned after they knew that he was a convicted felon. And so they didn't release them. And yet when Trump comes in, they said because you don't release them, you must be implicated. When they know after they raided his home, they deballoted him, they had lawfare, they would do anything to destroy him. So they would have leaked something if there was anything to be leaked. So then what were they thinking? So now Trump has control over them and all he has to do is say, "I really didn't want to release them." and he probably didn't because there's probably some a few vote, you know, Republican grande donors. So, he probably was worried.

He's getting calls, please don't do that. It's not there's not enough context. But that being said, you know what's going to happen? Every two weeks or something, a name is going to come out and it's going to be a Democrat and it's going to be a Larry Summers or a chief counsel person or somebody in he's just going to let it keep going.

Yes. And I don't know why they walked into this minefield. Think about that. What if this whole story gets turned so that every other week we find out a new Democrat who is in the Epste files and we've already heard everything there is to hear about Trump. I mean, think of that. If that's actually how this story lands, these Democrats and the media will run from this story so fast it'll blow that hat right off your head.

Yes, they they they will. And but the only rational explanation is they are so obsessed. I I've never We've all tried to figure out why they hate him so much. Maybe it's his queen's accent. Maybe it's his orange color. Maybe it's comover. I don't know. But maybe it he had no political experience. But they are so obsessed with him that they do the stu I mean Jasmine Crockett talking about Lee Zeldon and this other Dr. Epstein.

It was amazing. And it's every day. And and so their only strategy now is to make these videos with the sword, the f word, to scream and yell, kickbox, say Trump is this and that. And they want us as the American people collectively to get in a fetal position, put our hands over there, and just make it go away. I don't care. That's not going to work.

That's not happening. But that's their strategy. A a total chaos. And then the other thing very quickly is we had a civil war and the civil war was fought over the nullification of federal law and uh disloyalty the union. All of a sudden we find out that you know the mayor of Chicago says if I comes on our territory we're going to resist them. What does that mean? He's going to pull out guns and they're going to shoot each other north and south. Nancy Pelosi says we're going to arrest a she's never read the constitution. It says federal law is supreme to local and state law in matters of federal jurisdiction.

And then we have these 600 jurisdictions that are nullificate. They're like South Carolina in 1850, we're not going to obey federal law. And you can see where this is going. So then now they're they're issuing a video where they're telling 1.3 million people in the military, if you get an order and you've disguised because you're all legal scholars and you decide that if you don't want to obey it, just don't obey it. So they're basically calling for an insurrection and then they have all these ex generals and admirals who in the past have said Donald Trump was a fascist Mussolini. So almost what's eerie is almost every aspect of what caused the Civil War these very liberal progressive people are emulating as if they're Jeff Davis or I don't know Stonewall Jackson.

So how does that end? Yes, it's they're they're headed toward a situation if they don't stop that they're going to have a local and we almost had it in Chicago when they wouldn't come to the help of ICE that was trapped. But when Karen Bass says, "We're using LA officials to try to thwart ICE and help illegal aliens who are in the street waving the flag of the country under no circumstances they want to return to and burning the flag of the country they want to stay in."

It's so true. So, so well said. I I don't I don't get it. But I'm afraid that if somebody doesn't stop it, you're going to get a situation where a local police force on the orders of a blue state mayor is going to say, "Stop them and we're going to get a gunfight and then we're at Fort Sund territory."

And so it's scary and they've got us they're they're really calling for insurrection.

And meanwhile, the American people continue to support the deportation of all illegal immigrants in the country right now. All of them.

Not just the ones who have committed additional crimes. Absolutely. So, all right. So, now we need to take a moment to talk about Michelle Obama's hair.

I've been told by her many times this is very important. What are you laughing at?

Racists. Yes, we're all racist because she had to iron her hair. She talks about it on every tour stop she's promoting her book. Hold on. I want to see which one it is. Okay. Um there's so many to choose from. Um but here's the latest. This is SAT four. Let's take a look. A lot of people want to know, "What do braids mean? What does she mean?" Look, y'all,

we mean, you know, I mean, that's how white folks are. It's like, what does that mean? What are you saying? We We're saying nothing. Let me explain something to white people. Our hair comes out of our head naturally in a curly pattern. So, when we're straightening it to follow your beauty standards, we are trapped by the straightness, it is exhausting and it's so expensive and it takes up so much time. Braids are for y'all so we can work harder and focus on the work. Don't touch it. Just don't. She's sitting there with the straight hair telling the people not to. And can I just say for the record, it is not just black people who have to deal with their hair a lot in the morning. All right. Now, people, I have something to tell you. This is not all mine. I mention it a lot of the show, but if you could see the number of little hell things in there that Sarah's got to deal with every day to try to cover them up

so you guys think this looks natural. It is not just a black thing. Michelle, sorry, Victor. Go ahead. Well, when I get up in the morning,

thank you. When I get up in the morning, I wish I had hair. I wish I had Michelle's hair other than this. But my point is this. I I understand that she's insecure and she has four mansions. So when she's talking, I can't figure out whether she flew in from Martha's Vineyard, the Washington M mansion, the Chicago mansion, or the beachfront mansion in Hawaii. And then she says this, and I was listening to the radio when she this was on the story the other day. So I get I walk to my office. The first person I see is a beautiful Asian woman with straight hair. The next person I see is a beautiful Mexican-American woman with straight hair. The third person I meet is a guy that I knew who has very kinky white.

He's white and he has curly hair. And I thought, well, who white people don't have a monopoly on straight hair. So why are you saying this unless you have some problem? And the problem I think is my entire life, whether it was getting into Princeton or Harvard or getting the Niki account or something at my law firm or getting this huge job at the University of Chicago, I always it was always predicated on I could make white people feel guilty and that I was a victim even though I grew up as middle class and I was given every opportunity.

And so when you look at this scenario and you think of just to take an example, Selma, California, East Palestine, Ohio, where you have very poor people who happen to be white. And so what I'm getting at is when we obsess on race and not class, which the Democratic Party does, it's absurd. It's like Mandami saying, "I'm going to go after white affluent neighborhoods." And then you say, "Well, let me do a Google search for two seconds and see which is the most affluent ethnic minority in the United States." Indian-Americans. That's

right. 40% more income than the average white uh family. So, the whole racial thing has sort of jumped the shark now. It's just ridiculous.

Wait, forgive me, but I do have one more. This one's not about the hair, but this falls into the Steven L. Miller, the red stees on Twitter category of I regret to inform you we've disappointed the Obamas again. Here she is. We've got to play on how confining the damn role of first lady was.

Let's watch. Eight year stint as first lady uh tends tends to confine to be a bit confining, right? Because you know that the role, the job was not to just represent me, but to represent the nation.

And as the first black family in that house, just like, you know, black folks feel in all the first positions that we're the, you know, we're we're carrying the torch. We're lighting the way, which means that we've got to do it really, really well so that the next

folks will have a chance. you know, when you're when you're the only, you know, you feel like if you don't get it right, nobody will ever get this position. Women, people of color, uh people of of of different ethnicities, of different um genders and sexual orientation, we all feel that.

So, poor Michelle, it was especially confining for her to be first lady because she's black.

Yeah. And and I'm sure every other first lady before and after Michelle Obama felt totally free with the role and like lifted the dress up and said, "Hey, take a look at me." You didn't feel confined at all being first lady of the United States. It's just the black one.

Uh Michelle, people were so discriminatory against her, they put her on Vogue magazine about four times. And I, no offense to Michelle, has nothing to do with race, but Mellennia Trump is beautiful. She didn't they wouldn't put her on one time. It would be like her saying, "Well, you know, they hate Eastern Europeans, so I never got on Vogue." It's crazy. And then in 2004, um the so-called white vote for John Kerry was less than the white vote for Barack Obama four years later. In other words, Barack Barack Obama won and he beat John McCain not because of the black vote.

was a sure thing. 96% is because a huge number of white people decided to vote for him, a black man, more than they did the prior white Democratic candidate with standing Michelle.

That doesn't happen in a racist society. Amazing. It doesn't how they found I honestly though, have you ever seen like a first lady in particular who is so racist? She hates white people. Her image of white people is the most negative, judgmental, nasty thing I've ever heard. She thinks all we do is look at black people with negative judgments about their hair and their dress and the way they behave. Meanwhile, it's really a case-byase situation with blacks and whites, and she's failing it.

Yeah. I I think the problem is that her audience is the same group of white people I see every week at Stanford, but it's not the people at Bakersfield.

Amen. Because believe me, if she if people try that stuff to workingclass people, whether they're Mexican-American or white or even black, they don't listen to it.

They said, "You're spoiled, Brad. I don't want to hear it. I got to get up at 5. I've got to go to work. I don't get home. I don't have anything. You have four mansions. You're worth $100 million. You're spoiled, Brad. I don't want to hear it." But not those people.

Yes. They hang on every word she says because they're just like her. We're going to do Michelle Obama a favor and we're going to send that clip to her to make sure she gets a hefty dose of reality before she goes on her next tour stop.

Have you ever met Michelle? I met her one time at the White House uh at the White House uh Christmas party.

Yeah, she was perfectly pleasant. She was probably like, "Why are you looking at my hair like that?"

Yeah, Victor, love you. Thank you so much for all of your fulls of wisdom. It's a pleasure. BDH, he's a treasure. All right, Sarah, how's my hair? Good. Fine. She's dying to come up here and fix it. I guarantee you. It's wonderful to have somebody who's paid actually just to do your hair. It's wonderful. It's like a true gift. I do my own makeup, but Sarah does my hair. I never learned over all the years how to do my hair. you know, you never like watch it. And also, if you do watch it, ladies, you know how like the the brush, the round brush, my god, it's so much work. But the makeup I learned to slap on the face paint by following some twit online.

Okay, my next guest is somebody I did not meet up until a couple months ago, but like you, I was a lifelong fan. And I've seen I think most of Charlie Sheen's movies, but I have never seen somebody so skilled and so compelling as when I was young and saw Charlie Sheen on screen in Wall Street. He played the simmering, angry ambitious tortured soul on Wall Street better than anybody I've seen live it in real life. And I lived in Manhattan for 20 years. and the fact that his dad was involved in the movie too and that scene in the elevator with the two of them with attentions burning saying all the things would I would later find out have some parallels to his real life. He told me when we met via satellite uh for the release of his book and his uh documentary that he had fallen to fame so quickly and early on got the same lesson taught to him over and over again which was you can get away with anything with that

face and that talent and that personality will overlook anything. And that would wind up being somewhat of a curse for Charlie Sheen as well as a blessing. He's really profoundly interesting and he's come a long way through the tiger blood by winning years to really settle in a place of wisdom and reflection and I think you'll soon hear republicanism. Check it out. So, I can safely say that at times, sometimes more than not even, we all feel sluggish, bloated, and not quite ourselves. Modern life is hard. Processed foods, too little sleep, endless stress can all disrupt your gut.

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I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen's life has been a wild ride.

I was really hard to control. I'm by winning. I win here and I win there. That one. I had found some different level of of I don't know what

a Hollywood legend for so long. I was I was Martin Sheen's son and you know Millio was his brother.

What do you care if your brother did you school? This cameo just just falls out of the sky into into my lap.

I think I made a big mistake coming here. Films like Platoon, Wall Street, and The Rookie.

You want to do over? No, I don't want to do over. the highest paid actor in television history as a star on the beloved sitcom Two and a Half Men.

But all of that success came with challenges. Addiction, you know, I got Ter, man.

You don't worry that you're going to die when you take that many drugs. Dying for fools.

Drugs are undefeated. It's like 20 million to zero. He started experimenting with everything to get through that, you know, several times. If this is prison, the only thing that's missing is a the bars and the guards.

Now, Charlie Sheen is eight years sober and back to tell his story his own way.

All ready to go. You've already proven you can do all this to your body and still stay standing.

I'm the guy that lived it and survived it and I and I still don't completely know how.

Please help me welcome Charlie Sheen. Thank you. Thank you. The one and only. Is this on?

Yeah, it's on. You're good. Thank you. It's so great to have you. How does it feel to be back out here in front of the masses and feel all the love?

It's got to be better than crack cocaine. It's It's a different kind of better than crack cocaine. Um No, it it it feels it feels awesome. Yeah.

And uh Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Um we were talking backstage. We're both ah we're both getting older. I just had a birthday. You got a few years on me. Turned 60.

I turned 60. Yeah. Yeah. Um at 60, where are you? Happy, well, struggling, working on it. Where? Um, [sighs] yeah, that that that just described an entire week pretty much.

It's a Monday. Um, no, I I I I think I'm I think I'm happy most of the time, you know. I think um I I'm not I'm not looking for like uh you you know in insane uh events or or or or circumstance to to to generate happiness. Yeah,

I think I'm finding um and and you know when I say happy it's like I'm not like walking around like you you know cackling with laughter.

That's not normal. I never that's not normal. I never trust people who are like that.

Yeah. No. And I'm not I don't have a perma smile. Yeah. You can't trust those people.

No. It reminds me of my time on the Today Show. Very jarring. Very fake. Those are not happy or good people. Um, but it's it's it's the littleer things that start to matter a lot more, you know, as I as I as I go further down the road on the journey. Um, but the 60 thing was uh it was it was messing with my head for because it was like uh man. I I I I I I spent most of my 50s like apologizing to people and um and that's fine because I needed basically a decade to get through all of those apologies. Um, and it was also part of the reason that that that you know that that really drove me to to to find the the passion to do to do the book, to do the dock and and and really um create a moment um not really so much of a of a comeback. And I think we spoke about this the last time, but just more of a reset. And I wanted to um just put all that behind me, but but but do it properly and do it in a

way that was honest and noble and thorough. Yep. And and and Oh, thank you. Thank you.

I mean, it was thorough. All right. It was really thorough. Um you did lay it all out there very bare. We talked about it when you came on, but there was the incident, which you've since clarified a little of the cross the crossover tour when it comes to the sexuality. wasn't like the full crossover. It was just it was more like playing in the sandbox as opposed to like rolling around in the sand and rolling over in the sand.

So, do you follow? So, the sandbox not like an entire beach right? Got it. Got it. Not like my own tropical island.

Yes. So, are like does that make it hard for you now? like you've come out with that that happened which probably isn't that unusual for people who are super famous and super rich and have had a drug thing.

If if that wasn't a part of my story with you know how far I took it and and and the amount of of cocaine I ingested um in in any means available. Um if that wasn't part of my story, I think people would be like, "Hey, wait a minute. um we've you know in in other I can't say similar stories but other examples um that's that's usually been uh one one of one of the consistent ingredients

in that recipe you know well last time we were together I asked you whether you're getting hit on non-stop now by gay men and the answer was yes they're all like I got a shot um but I forgot to ask you whether

that was a that was a funny moment in the in the interview cuz that that came early. That was like in the first five minutes right?

Yeah. And that told me like, "Okay, all right. This is this is cool. This is it's it's on.

We're going there. We're doing this." Yeah. And I'm like, "Well, why the hell not?" And I'm I'm I'm sorry I cut you off.

No, no, no. But I forgot to ask you the other half of that, which is, you know, we saw Sean Penn in the clip. Nick Cage was one of your best friends. Did those guys come back to you and say, "Could you clarify that that it was not you know, your best friends who who did the tour with you.

Oh. Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no. It's nobody anybody recognizes. Yeah. Jesus, man. No. Um um all of your favorite uh most of them uh TV and and film stars that I know are off the hook. Um so, yeah, I'll just uh you know, I'll just own it. But another thing that we did discuss was that um I I I knew for so long how it felt to keep all that in and also um the the you know a lot of the consequences that that that it brought um or or the the target I still

uh presented myself as you know to some very uh nefarious types. Um like you were actually being blackmailed.

I was being blackmailed. I was being extorted, shaken down. Yeah. and and I and so there was a a a strategic opponent to unloading a lot of this um to where uh I I just wanted to be um um unextoable, you know, I I I think I Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. Um, and and thank you. And man, I thought I thought it would be a much bigger price to pay than than what it what it's revealed itself to be.

Wow. And that's like that that that that's so encouraging because that's really a leap of faith. That's like saying, "All right, um, you know, I'm I'm going to talk about all this stuff and and

you know, I don't Will you still love me?" Yeah. Will you still love me? Yeah. And they they do. I mean it those kinds of things can really restore your faith in humanity,

right? Like you could have named your book This is me now and I think people would have received it

just the same. Like I think people are mature enough and even this is like a right-leaning audience. A lot of people of faith.

Sure. You know, they may not love all the the drugs and the crossover tour though. I think we're fine with that now. We're kind of fine with that. Yeah, we're evolved. Um, but I think they they understand and love redemption.

Right on. Right on. Thank you. Thank Thank you. Thank you. Um, but before we get to the redemption,

okay, just go back a little. Okay, I'm going to skip all the fun stuff. Good. So, it seems to me in watching the doc and reading the book that the craziest pal you had was Nicholas Cage. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. um different kind of crazy. Go on. Uh other like extragalactically so.

Oh, but but but with a um with a wisdom and a and a and a and a and a sense of humor and and a and a devil make hair just air about him that was just it was like uh like poetic lava. Wow.

I I I think he would appreciate being described as poetic lava. Yes. Who wouldn't?

Yeah. Cuz lava, you know, you see it coming, you can get away, right? I moves pretty slow, but God, it burns everything to the ground and and you sure as you sure as heck um don't forget that it was there, you know, even decades later. Um what am I even talking about?

No, we're following. What am I talking about? I'm talking about Nick Cage. Can you Yes, we're still on Nick.

Can you bring us aboard the airplane with the walkietalkie thing that the pilot

Oh, with the with the intercom. Yeah. Can we talk about how the hell that happened? It it's it's it's it started out um just as a as a friendly game like a like a performance exercise game interaction um with with just the rest of the plane and because there was still um you know the curtain that separates the front from the back you know

um and so we we'd been up for a few days um at at that point. Sure. And just kind of made the decision we're going to Vegas and I, you know, I buy this like $9 like Dick Tracy hat in the airport. And so what what there's there's five of us. That's how we became the Jackson Five. I mean, what right? Um and that wasn't about music. That was just about numbers because five. Um, and so, so no, uh, we're on the plane and so we were kind of using that curtain to do like a 10second bit and just try to get

was loving this. It's Charlie Sheen and Nick Cage and others. Yeah. Notable and you're just entertaining the plane. Can you imagine this? But it was but it was all in just fun, you know, friendly spirit and and uh you know, Eddie would point out, you know, uh the Grand Canyon on the left side of the airplane and uh the Eiffel Tower on the right. I mean, it was just silly, you know.

Right. Right. So, in Las Vegas, what's that? That's not in Las Vegas. It's really not.

Well, there's a there's a little version of it. Right. There is, actually, yeah, but things like that. And so, um, Nick Nick went last and, um, I don't know if if if if he just, uh, he didn't understand the theme of what we were going for or, uh,

lighthearted fun. Yeah. He he he took it to a place um where he he grabbed the intercom and and he says, "Uh, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Uh, I'm not feeling well." And you can you can hear the plane just kind of get whisper quiet, right? And people are kind of looking at each other. Is this really the captain? and he says, "Uh, and I I I I I feel like I'm I'm I'm losing control of the airplane." And now, you know, whatever level of of high or drunkenness or any of us were, we suddenly were laser focused on the amount of the the that we were in because of that. Um, and he didn't even do the bit at the curtain.

Uhoh. So, so they were buying it that it actually might be they didn't see him doing it.

That's that's thinking back. I think that's was that was part of it. That's where we went wrong.

Yes. Yeah. Cuz had he done that holding the mic, it's it's in it's in poor taste, but they know it's a performance piece.

Maybe in bounds. Yeah. But they all they did was hear it. And you could see the the the flight crew like launch into panic mode and and one of the stewards like walked right up to Nick and he just goes, "Not cool, buddy. Not cool." Um Yeah. And then, you know, Nick didn't um I think I I talk about this in the doc, right? And and in the book, Nick Nick didn't know that I was basically the dope mule for that trip

for the Jackson 5. And um really did not want to get pulled over by the cops. No. No. Um and I um I I was rolling with such a fat bag of cocaine that it it that uh it wouldn't fit in any of my pockets, right? So I I I taped it to the inside of my thigh.

Oh my god. And and tried to wear a baggier pant. Um and so I'm I'm like, you know, like right in my crotch.

Oh god. I'm I'm rolling with like five to 10 for distribution. Um and and and and so when we landed uh we were met with with uh with with the feds with local authorities with just a bunch of frowns and eye and and Yeah. It was luckily though this is that thing that that you that you talked about about consequences

to a point. Yes. Because they're like this is such This can never Oh. Oh. Hello Mr. Sheen. Hello Mr. cage.

Yeah. And the the turn of fortune comes to save you. Exactly. Again. Yeah. Or did it

um you know, like if you if you had just gotten in like serious trouble early on,

right? I don't know. Would it would you have gone through everything you went through?

If if if if the middle word in life, right? Um I Yeah, probably. Probably. You were resilient. I think so.

You were really committed. Um, can we spend a minute talking about the prostitutes because you

Wow. You you have like this iconic line about calling up a prostitute and I I confess my husband Doug is the one who told me about it and I love it. It's very funny. Um, when somebody asked you, you know, you're Charlie Sheen, why would you feel the need to pay for sex? And do you remember what you said?

I I I do. And what I should have said, now that's a terrible response. I'm not even going to No, I'm going to let that one just keep drifting away. Um I I I I said I'm not I'm not um I'm not paying them to to to show up. Is that what I said? Uh I'm I'm paying them to leave. Right. And see, that's

sex. That's crass. That is crass. Um, and disrespectful, but but illuminating for those of us not in the trade.

The trade. Amazing. Um, no, but I I I wish I could claim ownership of of that quote because that was borrowed.

Oh, from whom? I I've heard different versions of it as as far as uh the the genesis of it. I I'm pretty sure it's a it's a it's a Carrie Grant quote.

Oh. Oh, yeah. It's probably one of those quotes that nobody really wants the credit for,

right? Yeah. So, I see your point now because we eventually kind of went we went we did the prostitute circuit and then there was a pornography like a a porn actress and we're not even we don't even mean a Kardashian like actual. So, Oh, you know it and I know it. She's She's famous because of that sex tape and it's never gonna happen on the bar exam.

I I've uh Okay. I've never seen that tape. Kim Kardashian. I've never seen that tape.

Oh, you've never seen that? But I know I know what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Have you guys seen the Kim Kardashian sex tape?

Every proper answer to that. So when you think about like that stint because you kind of graduated. I mean, by today's standards, that's all tame, by the way. You know, like what these young men are into on the internet today is like that blows doors on any of that stuff.

Wow. Like, how do you see that? Because you also had real love in your life. You had three marriages.

I had three marriages. Three marriages. Denise and you seem to really love each other.

Uh Denise Richards, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Um and so like you kind of had two lanes of like real love and a real partner and mothers to your children and then you had this other low lane.

Sure. So when you think on like the love and the sexual experiences of your life, do they seem dramatically far apart? Like there were the women I loved and then there was this other like really unfortunate thing or how do you see it?

I mean I mean yeah I don't know if I can add to that. Um no no I will. I um I was never a cheater. Like I never strayed from, you know, any moment that I was actually married.

That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Especially while on drugs and all that. Like that's that says something about your character.

Thank you. Yeah. So, I didn't um I mean during the legal separations that was then I I I knew I was kind of off the hook,

right, with that that whole vow thing, right? Right. You were on a break. Yes. Um No, and I and I and I went into those marriages um with with the best intentions and and and the best hope for some kind of a future together. Um, but the other thing, uh, it it just it at the time, I mean, you know, I was younger and and lot lot of different other things going on. Um, it was it was it was it was more exciting. It was more exciting. Um, I don't know that I can present it any more insightful than that or or like drill down to the like the core issue behind it or what it might be connected to. It was it was the thrill of um you know at at times sometimes not knowing if I was going to open the door to to to to a lovely gal or or to um cops.

Okay. You know what I'm saying? I don't Sounds fascinating. Roll of the dice. Sorry. Yeah. Um

well I I feel like cuz I know Are you dating Dolly again? Is this true? No. No, not dating Dolly. Do if you guys read the book, Dolly is the young woman he was dating when he went to visit then Governor Bill Clinton in the Arkansas State House. And would you And what did Bill Clinton do?

He took one look at her and and whispered to an aid, um, uh, find out what you can about the brunette.

Yeah. Like zeroed in on it, you know. And it was kind of like not cool, but he he like we have the same taste. I don't know. Um it was kind of flattering for her, not cool to me. You know, it's a weird place to be, you know.

Did you ever feel that special something looking at Hillary? Nothing. Uh, I I told no one. Find out what you can.

It's a no about the blonde. Um so well the reason I asked is because I read that you and Dolly had either renewed your friendship or pro possibly your relationship today,

right? And I thought it would be very hard to be your like partner in today's day and age given the history. I feel like the performance bar would be very high, right? Like ladies, you know what I'm saying? Like I'd be like googling the videos to be like what's my next move? I know like what?

Oh gosh. Um, wow. I mean, I wouldn't the bar be high for me also? I don't I think for women, they just want somebody who will listen to them.

Okay. I I don't I'm not sure the bar is particularly high for I'm a pretty good listener.

There you go. Yeah. Yeah. No, Dolly and I reconnected because um she she read the book and and thought it was fabulous and and was really flattered and really touched by how you you know the stories that I that I told about us in the book and and how I told them. Um and I in fact there were a couple things I thought she was going to be upset with and and she wasn't. She was just so excited to be a part of it, you know, and I was like how could you not have been a part of it? Um and then um we we we just reconnected. Um and then just as as old lovers but new friends.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean that's got potential, Charlie. I don't know. As the title of my next book.

Yeah. Old lovers, new friends. That's That sucks. I'm not I'm not buying that book.

It does. It definitely does not suck as a as a life theme. I don't know. Well, we'll get back to he'll get back to us on Dolly at our next tour and see how that goes. Or on somebody cuz I feel like that's the next step for you now that you're you've been in recovery for 8 years, your kids are getting older. Sure.

You're back life is back on track. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know. I'd love to see you well settled.

Yeah. No, I I thank you. I I would like to see me settled, too. Um but there's no I haven't been in a relationship for a long time.

Yeah. Uh, not since like 2018. I mean, Denise is in the news a lot. Your ex-wife.

She is. Yeah. She moved on to and got remarried and she's the mother of two of your kids, your two daughters. Yeah.

Do you guys still maintain a relationship? Are you still friends? Oh, of course.

Oh, that's good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, she's uh it's it's you know, we Thank you. Um, you know, it started out hot and heavy and then a bunch of happened and then it got, you know, just kind of icky and whatever, but today it's just like we don't really we don't really care about any of that other because it's not who we are today, you know? And I feel terrible what she's going through with with the current divorce stuff. It's it's just like whoa.

For those of you not paying attention, she was on Real Housewives. She married another man. She has alleged that he has been physically abuser to her. He has denied it. He accus her accuses her of being a hoarder. It's gotten very very ugly between the two of them. Um I know her just a little and she seems like such a sweet gal, I have to say. Like I I've only been really favorably impressed by her, but of course I wasn't married to her.

No, she is. I mean, um, she's a she's a Midwestern girl, you know, raised in a in a in a Christian household, you know. Um,

well, so are you. This is true. This is true. Martin Sheen is a devout Catholic.

Yeah. Or a uh, as I call him in the book, a uh, a Catholic. Yeah. Um, so what? Like

apple tree? Like what what happened there? Oh, oh, the the distance from it. Yeah.

Malibu, China. Um, yeah. Uh, cuz he was an actor, is an actor, but he was in the business. He had all the same temptations

and really really really tried to help shepherd you back onto the, you know, the the the good path.

Sure. But did the Catholicism not really speak to you or what happened with you when and when it comes to faith and religion?

Um, I don't I don't I don't reject any religion per se. I just I um uh you know I I I I there's just some days when you know I spend more time looking up curiously. Um, I spend more time looking up these days than I do looking down. Does that make sense?

Yes. Thank God. And Yeah. And um and people are like, "Well, well, do you believe in God?" And I'm like, "Well, yeah. The things I believe in, I don't I don't have a better word to to to to attach to those feelings and those beliefs and and just that that that hope. I don't have a better word than God,

you know? I'm not, you know, mother universe. I'm I can't I can't do that stuff, you know. Um so

yeah, I I um that but that's just a part that I've kind of never it's not like I don't want to talk about that. I've just never really explored it, but I but I but I can't say I can say I've been very close to it for a very long time.

Yeah. You know, it's like something kept my heart beating. Yes. Something kept my heart beating.

There's no way you came through that on your own. It's like Thank you. I don't I don't run any part of this show.

You know what I'm saying? In in this particular show. No, no, no. Just the overall scheme of life. I don't I don't

I went too far. I don't I don't run any part of of my journey uh other than the stuff that I that I navigate that's right in front of me. other than the stuff that's actually tangible and and and requires my involvement and attention and and input. You know what I'm saying? Just as far as the bigger picture, I don't I don't really I'm I'm sure there were times when I thought I was in control of much bigger things, but nope.

You've been humbled. No. So, your dad is very outspoken about his politics. He is

not a Trump fan. No. But his timing on that thing was really shitty, man. Um, and I and I I told him so, but then I had to take a step back and we'd just gone through that whole thing with Kimmel with the freedom of speech, right? And so I was like, "Yeah, yeah, okay. No, own that." You know, because it's the unpleasant things that we have to grant freedom to as well, right? Unless they're threats or like that. Um, but I was like, "Dad, the timing, the timing, man. You got to you got to read the room, you know,

right?" Cuz he's a he, you know, he he he brokers the peace deal and the entire universe is celebrating and dad's with Nicole Wallace.

Oh, yeah. And I was like, just threw up in my mouth a little again though. Again, you know what I'm saying? Um, free free to express. Yes.

How he felt. But he could have done that like on Wednesday. Right. Right. You know,

not when we just created peace in the Middle East. So, how about you? Just that.

Are you just that? Yeah. Are you getting more comfortable with your politics and expressing them?

I I I am. And um it's I think I I talked to you about this early on. Um it it just I I I had to feel something different because um you know I think we all or a lot of us um remain beholden to the structure um you know the the the the structure of the house that that we were raised in with politics with religion with the arts with culture. It's just that you know those are our early influences. And so I it that's just all I knew growing up, you know, and and it was like the good guys and the bad guys. And and yeah, okay, for a while, but then, you know, I I've I've paid the most taxes of anybody in my family.

Um [snorts] so that'll do it. Yeah. Um what I couldn't do because I I I was about to um do the dock and and start the book while at the same time um you know uh uh trying to bring an NA beer to to to the public, you know, with Wild AF. Um and and and and we have it's currently shipping. Um

nice. So, uh, I said there's no way I can tackle any of this with with with the kind of just focus and and and and and motivation, determination if I feel like I did during Trump's first term, right? And I thought, okay, okay, how do I how do I not feel because I I was not going to go to bed every night feeling hopeless. I was not going to go to bed every night being told things were uh you know the

catastrophic catastrophic. Yeah. The end is nigh. Um and I thought all right I'm going to I'm going to conduct an experiment. Literally I'm I'm going to change the channel. I'm I'm I'm going to do my own research like I've done with everything my entire life. I'm going to listen to other voices. I'm Thank you. I'm going to I'm going to explore I I I'm I'm going to explore just uh [groaning] just hearing both sides of the goddamn story, you know, because what I was, you know, so uh hypnotized by in in in in in some ways can be described as staterun media. I'm sorry, but it can. legacy media is very much like that. And I said, "Okay, all right, enough of that.

Enough of that. I'm gonna change the channel, hear some different voices, and do the research." And this the things that I discovered and the things that I started to really uh unearth um you know, it was just it was not just one of those moments. It was like months of those moments of oh my gosh.

Yeah. And I felt really stupid. I don't have a fancier way to describe it. I felt really stupid. Yeah.

Just some of the stuff I'd bought into and some of the stuff I was worshiping and some of the people I was hating because I was told I was supposed to hate them, you know?

Yeah. We've been there. And I'm just like, this doesn't And I I wanted to feel better for my health, for my mental health, for my physical health, just for my ability to, you know, interact with my kids just, you know, in a in a healthier capacity, right? And so, um, I I was like, "Yeah, all right, it. I'm going to root for this. I'm going to see how that feels." Right.

Yes. And so when you walked into the ballot box and voted for Trump, how did that feel?

Well, you see, that's a that's a detail. Um you know, that's another one of those examples where you feel stupid, you know. Um, no, I was still kind of still in that other side of the thing there. Yeah. Um, but you know, it's it's a it's a vote I'd like to have back,

but that's all right. Did you actually vote for Kla Harris? Oh my god. And you were that was in your sober period.

Yeah, I know. I know. I know. Um we forgive you. Thank you. Um no, there was again it's it's it's the things you're paying attention to and the people that you respect that you're listening to and it's all

kind of turns into this. Do you feel is this risky for you at all? Of course it is. Right. because you're a very famous actor, but you know, like to get more roles, I think generally you have to be a Democrat.

Um, [sighs] if that's the case, um, I I I I hope this beer is a giant success. Um,

yes. No, I I I don't think that um that represents any any freedom of expression or freedom of choice or freedom of sanity. Freedom of sanity. How about that? Um, no. I I uh you know and and and of of course you know some of the stuff you were talking about earlier about um God this brilliant this brilliant thing that you discussed about that that you know during the during the runup during the campaign during like all this that was like it felt so much more exciting you know. Um

but I think I I I think I think I think things are still going to be okay. I really do. I really do because

Yeah. Why? Because as long as they never look anything like that dumpster fire that uh that I was finally able to to to kind of, you know, push back down the alley. Um as long as they don't look like that, I I'm I'm hopeful, you know.

Wait, what do you mean? I'm not following you. Are you talking about your own life experience here or you talking about Kla Harris? I'm I'm talking about the party that I'm not that I had to I I I had to part ways with.

Yeah. I I had to. I mean, no, but but Megan, I I I I stuck it out as long as I possibly could.

Yes. But, you know, now I don't have, you know, a brain full of cocaine in a bedroom full of prostitutes. Um,

you see things much more clearly now. Yes. Um, welcome to the party. Thank you. Thank you.

The party of sanity. But that said, that said, um, it's still interesting to now, you know, see some of the stuff that's going on that I think a lot of us are

uh concerned with are a little like a lot of the infighting like, you know, like a lot of the stuff that just doesn't feel unifying in in a time when there's so much at stake. Yeah,

there is so much at stake. I know. I I feel it, too. And I get drawn into it and then I try to step back from it and I get mad. I have fights with people on Twitter. Half the time I'm just like I'm fighting because I feel like they think I won't fight. So I I fight because I want to remind them that they can't push me around.

Right. Yes. Then the other half I say nothing because I always my what I've learned at age 55 is finally I will decide when I'm in a fight.

I will decide when I'm in a fight. that the left-wing media, the dishonest smear merchants will not decide when I am in a fight or a controversy. I will decide.

I love that. I love that. So, what about acting again? Because I think we'd love to see you.

Thank you. Um, do you feel ready for that or is that Oh, abs. Absolutely. Because what I've kind of been sharing with people is like all this attention and all this this love and and and and like you know welcome back to the to to to life man. Um just you know just open arms everywhere. Um

and and and that that's and I haven't even still yet done like my job like the thing I'm known for. I haven't even done that yet. And and and the response I'm getting is uh is is is is incredible. Yeah. Well, this is a function of being rich, right? I think most people would have had to go back out and work uh already, but you must still have a lot of the money that you earn. No. Um, how much time do we have tonight? Um, no, I don't I don't um I'm I'm I'm very fortunate and I and I and I remind myself of that every day.

It doesn't, you know, maybe I'm not living where I think I deserve to be living or have, you know, the things I think I deser. No, but I I have nothing to complain about, you know.

Um, and I just have to remind myself of that. I have no food insecurity. I have no shelter insecurity, you know. I don't And um

Yeah. And and that's a reason why I don't offer my opinion about things that that that affect people in in that way. Yeah. because my opinion is is useless in in in those scenarios.

I have to say though, as much as I think we'd all love to see you on the big screen or the little screen,

no one wants that to come at the expense of your sobriety and Right. We don't. Yeah. No, of course not. No, thank you. Um, no. And I I I know it was only a couple of months ago, but you like very lovingly and and and and and compassion really touched me when you when your your closing message in our satellite uh session together um was don't die.

Yeah. So, no, truly I don't I do not want him to be the next Matthew Perry and for me to be doing the show and to say we knew him and we loved him and we had such hope for him and and adored him and we lost him to a drug. We don't want that.

It was awful. Don't let that happen. Yeah. But but no, and and what I was going to say is I know it's only been a couple of months, but so far kept my word.

Yes, I believe in you. We all believe in you. But but um but I but I definitely um I want to be back on television. I want to be back on the big screen. I want to be back in people's living rooms. I want to be just engaged in

that thing again because I'm at a place where um it's it's it's going to matter to me for different reasons and and and this time for all the right reasons.

Yes. You know, I don't know, Charlie. I feel like you need it and we need it too. Oh, right on.

I think it's the final piece of the redemption arc. That plus the lady um plus voting for JD Vance and then we can put a bow on it. Right. Right. And then I think we're good to go. But listen, we're rooting for you. We love you and we're really grateful to you. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank Thank you for having me. A I'm honored. Best of luck with everything. Thank you.

Oh my pleasure. Charlie everybody. Thank you very much.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Disaffected Young Men, Michelle O's Hair Complaints, Moving Right - Charlie Sheen, VDH, and Posobiec"?

In order: 0:00 Charlie Kirk, Alyssa Slotkin, Glendale, Jake Whitman; 15:00 Charlie Kirk, Mount Rushmore, Income inequality, gogevity.com/megan; 30:00 Charlie Kirk, Cognitive dissonance, Golden Girls, Human Events Daily; 45:00 Charlie Kirk, Hoover Institution, Antifa, Glendale; 1:00:00 Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, East Palestine, Ohio, Indian-Americans, Martha's Vineyard; 1:15:00 Riverben Ranch, Armra Colostrum, Martin Sheen, Nicholas Cage; 1:30:00 Nicholas Cage, Denise Richards, Pornography; 1:45:00 Martin Sheen, Real Housewives, Wild AF.

What is mentioned in this Megyn Kelly episode?

69 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Charlie Kirk, Nicholas Cage, Mount Rushmore, Glendale, Income inequality, Pornography. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Disaffected Young Men, Michelle O's Hair Complaints, Moving Right - Charlie Sheen, VDH, and Posobiec"?

The episode runs 2 h 5 min; the transcript is about 22,204 words in 366 timestamped sections.

More from Megyn Kelly

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.