Disturbing NEW Video and Photos Show Armed Mystery Man at Guthrie's House, w/ Phil Holloway and More

What this episode is about

The search for Nancy Guthrie, the missing 84-year-old mother of NBC News host Savannah Guthrie, has entered its tenth day, with authorities revealing that no suspects or vehicles have been identified in her suspected kidnapping from her Arizona home. Both the Pima County Sheriff's Department and FBI are involved in the investigation, but communication issues between the agencies have emerged, while Savannah Guthrie expresses her family's reliance on public support and prayers during this difficult time.

Key takeaways

• In an age of social media, Savannah's heartfelt plea reminds us that genuine human connection still prevails over online skepticism.
• Makeup as armor: Savannah’s effort to present herself reflects resilience, proving that strength often wears lipstick.
• The missing person case underscores a grim reality—abduction narratives often mask deeper, darker scenarios than we prefer to acknowledge.
• Authority squabbles reveal a tragic truth in missing persons cases: collaboration can falter just when families need it most.
• Ransom notes may entice the public, but they often distract from the grim possibility that victims face far worse fates.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Megyn Kelly (Guest) · 2 h 12 min speaking
• Savannah Guthrie (Guest) · 19 min speaking
• Phil Holloway (Guest) · 28 min speaking
• Chris Nanos (Guest) · 9 min speaking
• Erin (Guest) · 9 min speaking
• Chad (Guest) · 9 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 15:00: Nancy Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie, Megan Kelly, Chris Nanos
2. 15:00 – 30:00: Today Show, Daily Mail, Nancy Guthrie, Tucson
3. 30:00 – 45:00: Nancy Guthrie, Arizona, Bitcoin
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00: Nancy Guthrie, Relief Factor, Puma County Sheriff's Department, Arizona
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00: Nancy Guthrie, Chris Nanos, Bitcoin, Circle K
6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00: Nancy Guthrie
7. 1:30:00 – 1:45:00: Megan Kelly, Nancy Guthrie, My Sister Sam
8. 1:45:00 – 2:00:00: Bitcoin
9. 2:00:00 – 2:15:00: Tucson, Nancy Guthrie, Arizona, Bitcoin
10. 2:15:00 – 2:30:00: Nancy Guthrie, Today Show
11. 2:30:00 – 2:45:00: Nancy Guthrie, Bitcoin, Arizona, Tucson
12. 3:00:00 – 3:09:15: Tucson, Arizona, Megan Kelly, Nancy Guthrie

Notable quotes from "Disturbing NEW Video and Photos Show Armed Mystery Man at Guthrie's House, w/ Phil Holloway and More"

• Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show. It's now day 10 of the search for Nancy Guthrie, the missing 84 year old mother of NBC News host Savannah Guthrie. Authorities believe she was forcibly removed from.

  about Nancy Guthrie · at 0:00

• Both agencies urging members of the public to come forward if they have any information. And now we have heard again directly from Savannah Guthrie on Instagram last night for the first time.

  about Savannah Guthrie · at 1:15

• Moment when it was due. And that $6 million ransom deadline, has come and gone with no money deposited in the Bitcoin account, according to TMZ, which knows what the Bitcoin…

  about Bitcoin · at 8:23

• Subject in the ongoing Nancy Guthrie investigation as soon as this afternoon, according to two senior law enforcement officials.

  about Tom Winter · at 12:47

• Erin, we didn't talk specifically, but I'll tell you now. The letter says that she will be returned within 12 hours into in the T back in the Tucson area.

  about Tucson · at 21:19

• Well, like many of Sheriff Nanos's statements, that did not check out because she had not attended service in person in Arizona since the pandemic as broken by the Daily Mail.…

  about Arizona · at 23:02

• Sheriff Nanos is not conducting one-on-one interviews. Same message he's been giving. So, he's not updating us based on these new information. This new information is going to have to come.

  about Chris Nanos · at 1:14:34

• We are back now with the Megan Kelly show covering breaking news in the investigation into what happened to Nancy Guthrie. The FBI in a stunning move releasing shocking pictures of what.

  about Megan Kelly · at 1:39:34

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Nancy Guthrie — Person · Central subject (missing person/victim) · 24 mentions · first at 0:04
  The episode centers on the disappearance/abduction of Nancy Guthrie and the evolving law-enforcement response.
• Megan Kelly — Person · Host / main narrator · 4 mentions · first at 0:00
  She frames the timeline, critiques official messaging, and guides the audience through updates and analysis on her show.
• Savannah Guthrie — Person · Referenced principal (family spokesperson; public figure tied to case) · 6 mentions · first at 0:05
  As Nancy Guthrie’s daughter and an NBC News/Today host, Savannah is both a family spokesperson and a key public-facing figure in the case narrative.
• Chris Nanos — Person · Referenced official (law enforcement spokesperson) · 4 mentions · first at 0:23
  As Pima County Sheriff, he is repeatedly cited for public statements, perceived inconsistencies, and control of media access in the investigation.
• Tom Winter — Person · Referenced reporter (breaking update source) · 2 mentions · first at 12:39
  He is cited as the NBC News reporter providing a key update about an expected surveillance photo release.

Companies & orgs

• FBI — Company · Investigating agency · 1 mention · first at 0:35
  The FBI is involved in the investigation of Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, providing resources and expertise.
  Given to this show and other media outlets yesterday, saying, quote, writing, The FBI is not aware of any continued communication between the Guthrie family and suspected…
• Puma County Sheriff's Department — Company · Local law enforcement · 3 mentions · first at 0:20
  Primary local agency handling the investigation into Nancy Guthrie's disappearance.
  Yesterday, the Pima County Sheriff's Department posted on X, quote, Investigators have not identified any suspects, persons of interest, or vehicles connected to Nancy Guthrie.
• NBC News — Company · Media organization · 2 mentions · first at 0:05
  Employer of Savannah Guthrie, whose mother is the subject of the investigation.
  To the Megan Kelly show. It's now day 10 of the search for Nancy Guthrie, the missing 84 year old mother of NBC News host Savannah Guthrie. Authorities believe she was forcibly…
• Daily Mail — Company · Media organization · 4 mentions · first at 17:55
  Source of reports and leaks regarding the case and NBC News internal dynamics.
  There. It's a snake pit. Okay, they're literally right now in the Daily Mail, there's an article about how all these backbiters at NBC are feeling kind of bad now because…

Concepts & topics

• Bitcoin — Concept · Ransom demand method · 10 mentions · first at 8:23
  Mentioned as the method for ransom payment demanded by alleged kidnappers.

Places & events

• Arizona — Place · Setting · 10 mentions · first at 0:10
  The state where Nancy Guthrie was abducted from her home.
• Tucson — Place · Setting · 10 mentions · first at 2:51
  The city in Arizona where Nancy Guthrie was abducted.
• Circle K — Place · Potential evidence location · 2 mentions · first at 1:03:49
  Mentioned as a location where law enforcement sought surveillance footage.
  Of the dump they went to so that they can start searching because or even the trash at that Circle K where there was some activity initially when that night I think someone was…

Media & podcasts

• Today Show — Media · Media program · 6 mentions · first at 5:03
  The show where Savannah Guthrie works, mentioned in context of her professional life.
  Nancy Guthrie and her family? Was it all rainbows and unicorns? Cuz let me tell you something. What happens on the Today Show is they only paint a picture of the most happy…
• My Sister Sam — Media · Referenced media · 1 mention · first at 1:43:13
  Mentioned in comparison to the case of Rebecca Schaefer, an actress who was murdered.
  Biases, right? But I'm thinking about the actress Rebecca Schaefer and you know she was on My Sister Sam. She was a rising star. She starred with Pam Dober. Remember her? This…

Sponsors

• Relief Factor — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 46:28
  Advertised as a pain relief supplement during the podcast.
  Relief Factor loves hearing from pain-free customers, and they hope they can help you be one of them. Next, let me tell you about Bill and his Relief Factor story. Bill says, I've been.
• Ethos — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 28:59
  Promoted as a life insurance provider during the podcast.
  Protect your family with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote in minutes at ethos.commk.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show. It's now day 10 of the search for Nancy Guthrie, the missing 84 year old mother of NBC News host Savannah Guthrie. Authorities believe she was forcibly removed from her Arizona home, but beyond that, they don't seem to know much else. Yesterday, the Pima County Sheriff's Department posted on X, quote, "Investigators have not identified any suspects, persons of interest, or vehicles connected to Nancy Guthrie." Great job. And the FBI, in a statement given to this show and other media outlets yesterday, saying, quote, writing, "The FBI is not aware of any continued communication between the Guthrie family and suspected kidnappers, nor have we identified a suspect or person of interest in this case at this time. But the FBI, we've now learned, has been brought in, as I've been reporting, uh, kind of late and then stiff armed by the sheriff. As I've been

0:56 reporting all week, that even though they've been saying it's a joint investigation, that my understanding was the sheriff's office was taking the lead and the FBI was in a more uh back row role. Well, that's now hit the public and uh there are reports that in fact they were stiff armed by the sheriff. Both agencies urging members of the public to come forward if they have any information. And now we have heard again directly from Savannah Guthrie on Instagram last night for the first time. She does not appear to be reading from a script, but her tone was not optimistic.

1:30 Watch. Hi there, everybody. Um, I wanted to come on and just share a few thoughts as we enter into another week of this nightmare. Um, I just want to say first of all, thank you so much for all of the prayers and the love that we have felt, my sister and brother and I. and that our mom has felt because we believe that somehow someway she is feeling these prayers and that God is lifting her even in this moment and in this darkest place. We believe our mom is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock trying to bring her home, trying to find her.

2:38 She was taken and we don't know where. And we need your help. So, I'm coming on just to ask you not just for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson, if you see anything, you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you that you report to law enforcement, we are at an hour of desperation and we need your help. an hour of desperation. Savannah there having a little makeup on, having done her hair a little bit. And of course, you know, you have the online nuts who are like, I would never, if my mother were missing, I would never put on a stitch of makeup. Okay, Savannah has obviously had the hardest week plus of her life. Those videos showing her incredibly raw without hair and makeup done are what's real.

3:47 And as somebody who does the hair and makeup virtually every day, I completely related to that feeling of when things are really hard, really hard, you don't do it. And it's part of your depression, your sadness, and your inability barely to get out of bed. So, the fact that Savannah's functioning, was able to drag herself in front of the camera the past couple of times to issue those other videos is pretty herculean and impressive. And I saw her putting on a little makeup for the latest video as a very good sign of her mental health because I think it's armor in a way. And if you can if you can just like make an effort at whatever looking a little nicer, like a little bit more pop in your lip and the color, it's almost like a sign of like I will find myself again. That face that I present to the world every day, I I'm still there. I'm in there. I'm suffering, but I'm still in there. that girl who

5:03 goes out and does the Today Show will be back. And it's a bit of armor where it's like she's she sounded stronger to me in that video. And her messaging was no longer to the kidnappers. It was to us. You know, let's face it, there's probably not a kidnapper. This is probably a murder. I mean, I'm sorry. That's what I think. That's what I thought for many days now. th those guys. My belief is whoever wrote those ransom notes was an opportunist trying to take advantage of a suffering family. Um, and I'll go through with you what I I mean I I kind of outlined it in my head. There was 41 minutes in that house. It was definitely We know it was a kidnapper of sorts. It was an abductor. Not maybe not a kidnapper, but an abductor because she we know she didn't wander off on her own in random at random because who who took the nest cameras? She might have had a senior moment where she fell and hit her head,

6:02 whatever, and then wandered. Who took the Nest cameras? Did she? She fell and hit her head and then she she destroyed and took her two Nest cameras in the front and the back of her home. No, that didn't happen. Someone did take her. And so why would you take her? You either took her because you wanted to kidnap her for money or you took her because you wanted to hurt her. I mean, really, are is there another realistic option? And I don't believe those people who are harassing the family last week have her. I don't believe a reference to a white Apple Watch and possibly its placement on a nightstand, etc., and a flood light that could be seen by anybody from the exterior of the home, is proof they have anything. As I've been saying, if if you wanted to prove, hell, my audience and I could do this with each other. If somebody had me and I gave a couple of comments that only my audience would

6:57 know the references to you, I could satisfy you that somebody had me, right? Like easily and and it's for a mother and her children, it one or two references from their childhood or some funny moment they had, some family joke. You know how it is at Thanksgiving. We've got them in my family. You got them in yours. Some reference, some thing that you make fun of on the one child, not the other. Some joke that the family always brings up to It's very easy to prove you have somebody without referencing a flood light. That's So, this family's been getting harassed by an opportunist, which seemed clear to us given the number of fraud stories we've done on this show. It's just these people are heartless. They're sophisticated, and they couldn't care less about hurting an elderly person, a middle-aged person, a child. They don't care. All they want is to get paid. And they saw an opportunity, I believe, to

8:00 steal $6 million from Sav Savannah Guthrie in her lowest moment. That's my own belief. I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong because if I'm wrong, it means there's an actual kidnapper out there with Nancy Guthrie. But obviously Savannah and her brother and sister did not believe that because they didn't pay the ransom. We're now well over 12 hours past the moment when it was due. And that $6 million ransom deadline, has come and gone with no money deposited in the Bitcoin account, according to TMZ, which knows what the what the Bitcoin account, what its numbers are. They've been checking it to see if anybody's put any money in it all along. And their latest update was nothing was deposited. So, they didn't pay the ransom. Even though the family said, "We'll pay. We're willing to pay on Saturday night." They they what they were really saying was, "Give us proof of life.

8:52 you know, prove to us you have her and we will pay or just just proof that you have her, not even of life. And obviously, they didn't get it. So, they didn't pay the ransom and I think that was the right move. As I said yesterday, I don't think I'd pay it. I think someone has taken Nancy Guthy's life. And the real question in my mind now is who and why? Why did they remove her from the home before they did it? Because that we know too. We know they were in there for about 41 minutes because we know the Nest cameras were taken out at 1:47 and Nancy Guthy's pacemaker disconnected from her iPhone at 228. So, we know it took about 41 minutes for the perpetrator to do whatever he did inside that home. What did he do? It doesn't appear that he killed Nancy Guthrie in her home because that pacemaker was still connected to the iPhone at 2:28 a.m. when it appears he took her from the home. It does appear he took her

9:56 because A, she's no longer there. B the pacemaker disconnected from the iPhone at that hour and C there was blood at least on the front stoop and we believe inside the house, the sheriff continues to say there was DNA inside that they're having analyzed. That all would suggest someone took her and that she was alive. I just can't get past why would the pacemaker not have disconnected until 2:28 if she'd been killed prior to that. If she'd been killed, let's go down the theory of it was family over at Annie and Tomas's house earlier in the evening and he never actually did return her at 9:48 p.m. like the sheriff said. Okay, that would be on the pacemaker. we would see that clearly the pacemaker was connected to the iPhone prior to 2:28 a.m. and was downloading data. And all the research we've done shows that a pacemaker updates periodically like over the the course of a few hours. It's not

10:52 second by second to the iPhone. So it would be like maybe 3 hours you you get another upload from your pacemaker onto your iPhone of what your heart's done over the past few hours. And typically it would be very boring and you'd be happy to see a boring heart report. But if something massive happened, like you were in a scuffle or somebody was trying to kidnap you, one would think that would be reflected in your heart rate. And certainly if you died, your pacemaker would reflect that you had died, that there was no heart activity.

11:26 That would be on the record as of 228. And that's not what the sheriff's telling us. I mean, and it it makes no sense that the sheriff, if he saw that Nancy Guthrie had died prior to 228, would be engaging in this wild goose chase, would be saying, "I think she's alive." Would be engaging, as the feds are, with the Guthrie family on responding to alleged and possible kidnappers. None of their behavior suggests they believe she's definitely passed, which they would know if her pacemaker reflected a death prior to 2:28 a.m.

12:03 when it stopped communicating with its phone. Um, so those are the things that we appear to know. 41 minutes. She did not just walk off on her own. Someone did take her alive at least at as of 228. and that the sheriff believes that based on the pacemaker data. Um that that leaves us with who and why. Now we're just getting new information in as I'm talking to you. Um this is from Tom Winter of NBC News. Law enforcement is expected to release a surveillance photo showing a potential subject in the ongoing Nancy Guthrie investigation as soon as this afternoon, according to two senior law enforcement officials.

12:55 Surveillance photo showing a potential subject. Great. Great. Good. We'll look forward to seeing that. That's the only thing that makes sense that someone I mean I believe that someone took her and and probably then took her life because think about it. If you're if you are a kidnapper, why are you kidnapping? You're kidnapping because you want money. You want ransom. Okay. Well, you just blew that. You didn't If that was them behind these latest demands, they blew it. They did not provide proof of proof of life and they didn't get their money. Now that's over. If you took her and you didn't submit a ransom demand right away and then two opportunists or one opportunist decided to bomb in and make a Bitcoin demand that you're not behind, you probably would have rushed to make your demand, concerned that the Guthrie family was going to pay somebody other than you. And you probably would have

14:00 submitted a lock of hair or something to prove you were the actual kidnapper who had her. Nothing. Crickets. So it doesn't appear that somebody is hiding Nancy Guthrie for ransom at this point. If she was killed, the question is who and why? Was it someone who someone who was stalking Savannah Guthrie? We don't have reports of actual stalkers, active stalkers. As I told you, I did receive information from a tipster on somebody who had been stalking Savannah along with others. And this person, I think, was let out of prison years ago, a few years ago. But there's nothing about an active stalking situation.

14:45 uh or certainly not somebody who they know and I'm sure at this point the FBI knows if there was an active stalking situation and found out where those people were on the day that she disappeared. Okay, so there's that. It's still possible. We don't know anything. They're not telling us active stalker stalkers, etc. or or who who might be on that list. It could be a crazed fan. Well, stalker kind of suggests crazed fan or it could be somebody angry angry with Savannah. Now, as our guest pointed out yesterday, sadly, that's kind of more more likely if something were to happen to me or happen to Tucker because we're more controversial than Savannah Guthrie is. Um, but it doesn't mean it can't happen in her case, too. Even like the Cheery Morning host can get some lunatic who decides she's awful because she did one report that touched on his favorite issue and he wants to make an example of her and he's got a touch of

15:36 the the crazies and he does something about it. Okay. So, it could be some sort of crazed NBC watcher, someone who either loves her, you know, sickly or hates her. It could be somebody who hates Nancy Guthrie. They're right now today taking the DNA of all the workers who worked on her home, trying to figure out whether they were in the home when they shouldn't have been, etc. They're just trying to rule people out right now. It could have been one of those people, or it could have been somebody closer to home. It could have been a friend or a family member.

16:08 And that's why they're looking down the road at Annie and Tamas. Um, I don't think they're looking at Savannah, who by all accounts was in New York when she heard when she got the call from her mother's friends or from her sister that they couldn't find their mother. And no one's even mentioned anything about the brother Cameron, who's 61, and a retired fire p fighter pilot who I I believe lived out of town, too. He didn't show up until a couple days into this saga. So, they're all fair game because they're family and that's where you start. When it comes to the family, you got to ask what would the motive have been. You know, you got to look, you do have to look at at Annie and Tomas and ask who who's the beneficiary of any life insurance policy she had? Who's the main beneficiary of any will that Nancy Guthrie had? How much of a burden was Nancy Guthrie to those who were taking care of her? I mean all those are the

17:04 questions that law enforcement will be asking and those are the right questions. What was the dynamic between Nancy Guthrie and her family? Was it all rainbows and unicorns? Cuz let me tell you something. What happens on the Today Show is they only paint a picture of the most happy lovely things and everyone's a family member to each other on that set. And obviously your home life is absolutely perfect. and if they ever go home and do a shoot with your parents that's only going to be painted in the most perfect light. And look, I'm just going to tell you these are lies.

17:37 They're lies. Um, even now as I watch them say, "Oh, no, that's the Today Show. It's it's really it really is a family." It isn't. I'm not so enraptured in this story that I haven't forgotten that it's a snake pit over there. It's a snake pit. Okay, they're literally right now in the Daily Mail, there's an article about how all these backbiters at NBC are feeling kind of bad now because Savannah was out for four to six weeks with a vocal cord surgery. She wasn't allowed to speak preceding this event. And they were gleefully leaking to the Daily Mail that the ratings went up when she was gone.

18:16 Ah, she's toast. The viewers don't want her anymore. You know, she's this, she's that, she's the other thing. Well, now they're like, "Oh, gee, we feel kind of bad. Kind of feel kind of bad. We crapped all over her while she was out for her surgery. We were leaking to the Daily Mail that she was likely to get fired because whoever took over for her got a higher rating." That's that's who the Today Show is. I'm sorry, but let's not fool ourselves. And the the cheery perfect home picture. They don't know. You don't know what the dynamic is. You have no idea. Do you really know what the dynamic is between Savannah and her sister? who does the the lion share of the taking care of Nancy. I guarantee you it's not Savannah. Maybe Savannah financially, but she doesn't even live there.

19:00 Savannah lives in lower Manhattan and is living a cosmopolitan New York life. Um, it's the sister who lives 10 minutes away from the mother. And anybody with an 84year-old mother knows that that can be potentially a heavy lift for the person who's actually there. All right. So, these are all the things that they're going to be looking at and are looking at. But right now, other than this news we just get from Tom Winter at NBC expected to re release his surveillance photos showing a potential subject. That's all just subject in the investigation. We don't know of any actual real clues. They're analyzing DNA. That's a real clue. We'll wait to see. They're looking at Annie Guthri's car. They're looking at Nancy Guthri's car.

19:44 just we just we have precious little to go on from the sound of it. Now, they're still looking into those notes because it's not completely impossible that the person who wrote them is a kidnapper who does have Nancy or did have Nancy. And finally, now that the deadline has come and gone, the reporters who received them are starting to release a little more information. I mean, like it's over. So, like I think you can release the details at this point. TMZ's Harvey Levan was on CNN last night revealing more about what was in the abductor's note that he read, which was the first one, which had the most information from the sound of it.

20:30 Watch. Well, I mean, we talked about the second deadline and um there is a direct stark statement about consequences if they didn't get that money. Um that's all I will say, but it is chilling when you read that sentence. It is short and to the point. But if this really was the only communication between the kidnappers and uh Nancy Guthy's family, right, was happening through the media, then we are well past that deadline and that Bitcoin account is empty. I'm just stating the very obvious here.

21:05 Yeah. Um that's kind of the way I see it, too. And you know, I I raised this issue of maybe the second letter has a second Bitcoin address. Um, but it doesn't make sense to me because why would Savannah, you know, look, uh, Erin, we didn't talk specifically, but I'll tell you now. The letter says that she will be returned within 12 hours into in the T back in the Tucson area. And then if you look at 12 hours, that's a radius of about 700.

21:33 Calculated the Yeah, the map. We do have a few updates in the case. Fox News Digital, we mentioned this in passing yesterday. Remember I I read you the Daily Mail piece that kind of referenced in passing that Nancy Guthrie had been watching her Sunday mass with friends and that's that was the answer to the mystery of Sunday morning. Um well we'll get to the news on that. Okay. But first this Fox News Digital is reporting that individuals who did work at NY's home have submitted DNA samples. I mentioned that in passing. Um so that's good they're doing that. And now this this is the mystery that we've been raising on this show for days now. You remember initially the reports were from the sheriff that Nancy was discovered missing after she failed to show up to church. Here's Puma County Sheriff Chris Nanos trying to explain.

22:35 Sometime earlier that morning they got a call from uh somebody at the church who said, "Hey, your your mom's not here." Um, the family went to the house

22:44 at 11 o'clock in the morning. The family got noticed from somebody at church that she was not at church.

22:53 Someone at church notified them. She was not at church. I could I could play you four more. Okay. He said it repeatedly. Um, well, like many of Sheriff Nanos's statements, that did not check out because she had not attended service in person in Arizona since the pandemic as broken by the Daily Mail. And every day since the Daily Mail broke that, we at the MK Show have been asking, "So, how did the family know that she wasn't allegedly at church?" Like, what is that report based on if she wasn't actually going to church? Then we found out that there was a live stream, but that you couldn't see if you were a congregant who was participating in it. We reported that to you. Then we found out that there was a chat along with the live stream. And we speculated here, could it possibly be that people reported in the chat that Nancy wasn't there, that that this 84year-old was joining the live stream chat? We had no idea, and no one

23:49 would answer our questions. But now we know that Nancy did regularly gather with a small group of friends on Sundays to watch a live stream not of her church in Arizona, but of her daughter Savannah's church in New York City. Fox News reporting that last night. After Nancy did not show up to watch this live stream on February 1st, Sunday last Sunday morning, a friend contacted Savannah's sister Annie, which then set off the desperate search that still has not ended. The pastor of the Guthri's New York City church spoke out today on the Today Show.

24:31 I sat down with Pastor Michael Rosenda in the very pews she and Savannah often pray in. This is Savannah's church and it's also it's also NY's church, right?

24:43 Yeah. Over the years, Nancy would visit and we got a chance to meet her and know her a little bit. Um, and then during the pandemic, we started out of necessity filming our services, our prayers, our sermons, and putting it out there into the world. And during that time, Nancy started to uh to watch.

25:06 Okay. Just a word. Um, it's very annoying when these Johnny come lately to the story bomb in try to pass judgment on those of us who have been here reporting it from the beginning aggressively and with misinformation. And that's what leads me to Hall Monitor Brian Stelter. Hall monitor is out there tweeting the following. Online sleuths and internet commentators have sowed confusion in recent days about how exactly Nancy Guthri's absence was first noticed on February 1st. Here's the deal. And then he goes on to explain what went down.

25:44 Okay, it's not online sleuths and internet commentators who have sewed this confusion. It came directly from the sheriff multiple times. Hall monitor, do your homework. online sleuths and commentators have been trying to piece together what's real based on the sheriff's 180 reversals of his own comments if you just wait 24 hours. He is the one who said she didn't show up at church and someone at church noticed and called her family. Um the the misinformation around this has just been pretty legion. That sheriff, I mean, she was snatched from her bed, then he had to take that back.

26:33 He's had quite a few that he's had to clarify. Nobody's perfect, but spare me the sanctimonious parachuting in with your corrective record, Hall Monitor. Okay? do your own homework before you strive before you try to lecture those of us who have been following this in its every detail because actually some of us really do care about getting the facts right and hall monitor some of us actually do have to worry about this kind of thing happening to us or our loved ones. So, we're really invested in making sure we get every fact correct, unlike you where you sit there with your tweets and think that you can weigh in and correct people like this show or Ashley Banfield or anybody else who is trying in good faith to get the facts of this case right. I've had it.

27:24 We sent Phil Holloway to Houston because we wanted someone of our own. I'm sorry, to to Tucson. Um, we wanted someone of our own there to be researching the facts and making sure that we're getting things right. Phil used to be a cop. Did you know that? And now, of course, he's a lawyer, very smart lawyer, and also a host at MK True Crime. So, he is neck deep in true crime cases. He understands reporting and he's been on the opposite side as a member of law enforcement as well. And he has been on the ground reporting now uh for about a day there in Tucson.

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28:43 Some policies are as low as $30 a month. Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. And Ethos has a stellar 4.8 out of five stars on Trustpilot with over 3,000 reviews. Protect your family with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote in minutes at ethos.commk. That's ethos.com/mk. ethos.com/mk. Application times and rates may vary. Phil, welcome. Thank you. Great to see you. So, what are your first thoughts having been on the ground for about 24 hours? Look, one thing that a good lawyer uh will do, whether you're a prosecutor, defense attorney, if you're a criminal lawyer and you're involved in a criminal case, one thing that it's important to do is to go to the scene of the crime so that you can uh on the ground, right? You want to see what the crime scene looks like. You want to see um the terrain.

29:40 You want to just visualize how things are located with respect to to other things that may be of interest. in this case, the mom's house versus Annie's house. So, the one thing that I first noticed when I got out there, besides the giant scrum of obviously media personnel that have every inch of this very narrow roadway just kind of jam-packed with their vehicles and their equipment. Um, I noticed that the terrain uh at the house and around the house uh would be something that would be very difficult to conduct an investigation in. Um, you've got, as you see there on the screen, you've got a lot of the, uh, cacti. You've got shrubs that are, you know, 2, 3, 4t high. Lots of things that would block the view of the house, the front door, uh, you know, from the roadway. And vice versa, if you have the Ring camera, it's not, it might see who's standing at the door, but it's not going to see what's out past all the

30:41 that shrubbery. Um, and so I I sort of took a walk around and then I looked at the area across the street from the house and I saw more of this um, you know, rocky desert, traditional desert type terrain. And it's just it would be a very difficult, challenging place to do an investigation if your investigation turns on trace evidence. And now we know that some of this does turn on trace evidence. Uh, I've also talked to some locals here who parathetically tell me, you know, they don't have a lot of trust in the sheriff. Um, they they tell me that the the morale in the department is not so great, that he has uh leadership problems uh within the department. And you start putting all this together and it tracks with the things that you just went through with respect to the sheriff. You know, I on the way out here yesterday on the plane, um I sent an email to to the sheriff's office, uh asking, "Hey, look, um is there anybody

31:42 there that would be willing to talk with me for five or 10 minutes because I would I was interested in maybe doing an interview and showing the cop's perspective, right? let them tell me and tell our audience what it's like from the perspective of law enforcement working a case like this where you're, you know, long on uh basically a mystery and short on leads and and you're up all night every night working um tirelessly trying to solve a case, right? That takes a toll on officers. It takes a toll on their families. It's just very very grueling and hard work. So, I was looking to see if I could get someone to talk about that side of things. I wasn't like looking for additional um you know, information about the case itself. And you know, I got a very short response back saying the sheriff is the spokesman for this investigation and he is not granting any additional one-on-one interviews. So, I guess he's just

32:40 completely checked out, which makes sense. I mean, he's he's given some press conferences, Megan, that uh quite frankly were left me scratching my head and he released the scene way way too early. You know, you had these blood droplets that were in the driveway. Uh and we had people um that were able to go and access those within a day or so after this crime occurred.

33:04 Lots of things about this just leave me scratching my head. Yeah, they they they compromised it now because if and when they ever make an arrest, that person's going to say anything that use is used against him from the crime scene, they're going to say it's compromised. What do you mean? They they had members of the media trapesing through the front porch, the inside, the or the garage, the outside that how can you trust anything there? There was no chain of custody on the house or the area around it. Um so this will wind up being a problem for them if they ever find a perpetrator. Um, Phil, the the deadline for the ransom has passed officially and um it does not appear they paid it according to TMZ who has the Bitcoin address and to me it now seems clear from Savannah's latest message that

33:48 all involved have concluded this was a hoax. Yeah. If she didn't think it was a hoax, she would have paid the 6 million. Um, so is that is that your understanding or your impression? It's it's my impression now and it's been my impression um from the beginning, but since I've been here, it's sort of solidified that in my mind. I think that somebody was obviously trying to extort her or uh basically con her out of some money, right? Uh but I don't think it's the people who took uh and probably killed Nancy Guffy. And can I talk more about the the blood droplets that you were just mentioning? You know, um there's video of that. We've seen it. I think Brian Inon was out there and he took some video showing those blood droplets and I've been talking with others here on the ground and getting a better feel for what that looked like.

34:39 And you know, in some of the video that I took that I think maybe you just showed showed that the house there's it's like this semic-ircular rock driveway and in the in sort of in the middle between the entrances and exits on that semic-ircular drive there's this um lots of cacti and shrubbery and other things like I mentioned. And so what you what you can sort of surmise happened is that there was some struggle in that house that caused her to bleed. Now, it wasn't the kind of bleeding that you would expect if say you cut an artery.

35:11 It was little droplets more like think about if you have ever had a bloody nose and you, you know, have blood that's just gravity is taking it straight down and it's, you know, dropping droplets on the ground. Okay? So, it wasn't heavy bleeding. And we also know that there's some DNA inside the house. I mean, it could be touch DNA from the cells left behind by whoever, or it could also be blood in there. It stands to reason that if you had blood droplets on the doorway or the uh doorstep, then you might have blood droplets just inside the door and then those droplets come out uh to the top of the semic-ircular driveway and then they end. And so what that suggests to me is that somebody put her in a vehicle and drove her away from there. And so if that's the case, why didn't we have the search plane up that the sheriff's office had within hours? Okay. Um we know the border patrol came in and had some dogs

36:07 out there, but we don't know much about how the dogs were used and in what capacity uh to try to track some scent. And you know, it the whole thing just points to a scenario where maybe it was a burglary going bad. And this is not necessarily inconsistent with Ashley Banfield's reporting either. um something happened with somebody and it was some type of an altercation. Um family members can commit burglaries, too. So, I'm not saying that Ashley Banfield is mistaken about any of that. It's consistent. Or it could be just a random stranger going in. But somebody went in there and it was a burglary. She was assaulted. And I think that they took her out of there so that they didn't leave her behind because there's lots of evidence on a body whether it's alive or breathing that can identify the attacker. So there could be I I've seen cases where someone was shot in the head with a small caliber uh rifle or

37:06 something and the bullet never leaves and it and it just makes very small blood droplets. Okay. And sometimes the body, I've seen one case where the head was taken to uh so that the killer could, you know, prevent law enforcement from finding that bullet and matching it back to some gun. So there's all sorts of reasons that come to my mind why a killer or an attacker would remove Nancy from that home. Uh and none of them are good. uh this whole thing feels like it's um turned into uh I don't want to say a stale case and hopefully with this new information this afternoon maybe maybe we will get some kind of breakthrough but the general feeling around here up until that announcement that you just made uh about the maybe a picture of a of an person of interest or something like that until that it's just the feeling here is that this is a stale case and that law enforcement is just at the end

38:04 of the end of their investigative leads right now. I know what you mean because stale is how it's feeling. Um the FBI got in there guns blazing set up the command post. They went in Friday night. They researched Nancy Guthri's house. They seized the car. They went over to Annie Guthri's house. They looked at that earlier in the week and then again on uh Saturday night for three hours. Um, here we are now Tuesday and nothing. And and what you know, I mean, I'm I'm thrilled that there's a possible quote subject here that they're that they have a photo of. Um, but that's it. Like, they're not even saying suspect. It's just like what are going to be the facts around this.

38:50 Hopefully, it's a real lead and not just, you know, a nothing burger because it doesn't seem like they have much to go on right now. And that's alarming so long after. I know you're you're pointing out he didn't bring in the sheriff didn't bring in the special plane uh that's supposed to fly overhead so they can potentially see a person being removed. He had some sort of a turf war going on with the person flying the plane and the sheriff had street patrol.

39:18 Say again. You know yesterday Yeah. put he the the pilot was pulled from the uh flying duty uh because of some disagreement with the sheriff, I'm told, and was put on street patrol duty um or something along those lines. But nevertheless, we know that the pilot was not flying the plane when when that very valuable asset needed to be in the air because the moments, the minutes, and certainly the few hours after uh a disappearance like this, those are the most critical times to have all hands on deck. And unfortunately that big piece of it was um out of the equation. Um but yesterday there was some information from the sheriff's office that there was to be expected some additional law enforcement activity at both of the Guthrie homes. We're talking about Nancy's and Annie's which is about four or five miles away. Uh and I drove to both of them yesterday night. They said there would be.

40:11 Yeah, he said there would be. But you know I was out there until after dark. Um, and I didn't see anything. I mean, I saw one sheriff's deputy that was parked in front of NY's house and he was just sitting in the patrol car there sort of as sight security because that's where all the media is. But that wasn't part of the investigation. But, um, we saw no law enforcement activity. And then, um, I checked with people, other other members of the media who are here on the ground, have been out there overnight working in shifts. And I checked with several of them before before we go on air with with your show here and they all tell me, "Yeah, nothing happened. We we stake the place out all night and we saw Natada." So, I don't know what this messaging problem is with the sheriff's office. They need some some help. They need some formal media training. They need to they need to do some work um on

41:02 that because their messaging has been well, it's just been very very frustrating for the public. It's got to be frustrating for the family of Nancy Guthrie to to see the sheriff's office make some kind of statement like this and then there be nothing. It's like, what are you doing? My loved one is missing. Whether she's alive or dead, we want closure. We want our mom, right? And so, you got this these messages coming out of the sheriff's office that are just terrible in my opinion.

41:32 I know. It's very alarming. It's it's not I wish the FBI had been in charge since day one because that this it's not their first rodeo when it comes to a kidnapping or even a murder with no body, you know, cover up. And they they weren't brought in. And now there are reports that when they were brought in, they were stiff armed that the sheriff wasn't exactly happy to see them. He didn't project that on camera. I'll say that. But there are reports uh out of Fox News today that that was the case. And at a minimum, what this tells me, Phil, is that

42:01 I mean, I don't know this, but I'm going to guess that if it's Fox News reporting, they're probably getting their information from the FBI. Yeah.

42:07 And um my suppos My supposition is that that means at a minimum the FBI is unhappy

42:13 with the cooperation it's getting from the sheriff and that maybe they're not hot on this case and about to solve it because they they don't start pointing fingers at each other like that when things are going well. Well, so some of the folks I've talked to here are with the Fox Digital team who have uh I think been the one that broke the news today that the uh there was some DNA samples taken for comparison by uh people who maybe like people who worked on the pool, maybe gardeners, people who were uh hired to work around the home in some capacity. And so that information I I I suspect if I had to guess is probably coming from the FBI because or it could be someone very frustrated within the Puma County Sheriff's Office. Um, but the thing about the DNA comparisons, it's important to remember, if someone works at that house, depending on what exactly their job is, it may not be unusual or unexpected to find their

43:16 touch DNA inside the home. But now, if it's someone like if it's a landscaper and the DNA is on the mattress, different story.

43:24 That's a different story, right? The context is key. But there's also people, family members, right? you would expect uh family members to have their DNA present in her house. So just because you find someone's DNA in and of itself is not necessarily a clue that might point to you as a suspect, you've got to use the whole context and figure out um is this where you would expect this person's DNA to be or not. And if the answer is no, then you got to start working on um trying to rule them out if you can as a suspect.

43:58 Yeah, Phil, thank you. We'll check back in with you tomorrow and uh good luck in the meantime getting somebody to talk. Want to tell the audience that um that sheriff did give an interview on camera to off camera to an Arizona outlet called Green Valley News. Uh and it was on Monday and has a message to his detractors in here. This is a quote. They can question the quality of the investigation. That's their right. But I would tell them this, they haven't a clue what this investigation has entailed. They don't know all the efforts we put into it. They also don't know that over the last 5 years, this team has close to a 100% solve rate when it comes to homicides. And it is currently going through thousands of pieces of evidence and following up on 3,000 tips and counting. Now, you want to get picky that the sheriff speaks funny or talks off the cuff, or you can call him a buffoon or Barney F or

44:49 whatever you want to call him. The haters are going to hate. But my local media, you included, know me. You know what I'm about. And you know I've always been a pretty much open book. You ask me a question, I'm going to answer it. That's just the way it is. Well, we appreciate that the book is open, Sheriff. We would really love for it to be correct and reliable and trustworthy. That's personally where this show has taken issue with you. We continue to hope that it's better than it seems. And we really hope that this is more like an Idaho situation when it comes to solving it where the the front burner looks a mess, but the back burners are firing and well on their way to actually doing the job. Um the FBI is there to help.

45:35 They've got a lot of resources that you don't. We certainly do hope you're taking advantage of that. Uh, and speaking of the FBI, we're back now with a very talented 25 year old 25-y year veteran of the FBI on what she's gleaning from the latest facts, including um, including I want to talk to her about uh, in particular why they searched the sister's home, Annie Guthri's home on Saturday night, not just at night. We know it happened from 7:30 to 10:30, right? but with the lights off. That I I went back and looked at that tape. It's not just that they searched it at 7:30 to 10:30. It's that they kept the lights off. Why would they keep the lights off when they were searching the sister's house? I'll ask our next guest in just a minute. Don't go away.

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47:10 Relief Factor is 100% drug-free and it targets the inflammation that causes pain so you can move better, feel better, and enjoy life again. Try the 3-week quick start for just$1 199.95. Go to reliefactor.com or call 8004 relief. Let's see if you're next getting out of pain. For more on the search for Nancy Guthrie, we want to bring in retired FBI agent Moren O' Connell, a 25 year old 25-y year veteran of the bureau who worked on the evidence response team. She's now the president and CEO of Moren Oonnell and Associates, a company that provides security and investigative services. Moren, welcome. So good to have you. Um, so let's just start with that question that I left in the air before the break, which is they went back to Annie Guthri's house on Saturday night, the sister and brother-in-law's house of Savannah's. And they went at 7:30 to 10:30. According to most reports, it was a three-hour stint. Even

48:09 in Arizona this time of year, that's dark. That is nighttime. And the video, let's let's play it. I think it's a sound bite, so stand by. Okay, look at it. So, yeah, it's video. It's black inside the house punctuated by flashes of light, which is obviously a flashlight and or a camera with flash photography going off. But you tell me why, Moren, you go at night. Okay, fine. You don't turn on the lights inside the home.

48:43 Right. And I mean before we even get into what they were doing there uh late at night, the fact of the matter is in addition to being on the evidence response team, I was a I was a street agent essentially my whole career working gangs and narcotics. So I've done my share of roll back warrants on locations where we have um you know, we've done a a prior warrant or we've gleaned more information or whatever and freshened up that warrant. But I have never ever even heard of going back to a location three or four times on roll back warrants. So this has to be either the development of brand new information, but these were not FBI people that were in there. Those were sheriff deputies.

49:26 They didn't bring in a lot of gear. So obviously you and I know that we're on the outside. We're looking in. But what would I be doing if I were on the inside like that? Two things. I'd be looking for blood or I'd be looking for hair and fibers with oblique lighting, which is flashlights. And by oblique lighting, I mean um instead of holding a flashlight this where I'm looking down at the ground, I'm having it parallel with the ground so you can see um you can see hairs, fibers, and also pro tip, you can find your jewelry in a nancond when you do stuff like that. So,

50:02 wow. In my opin in my opinion it was either hairs and fibers or um they were trying to do some kind of blood looking for blood but with blood you're bringing in the luminol and the kits and the lighting and they didn't bring any of that in. So

50:18 it would have been much more elaborate. Yes. And it would have been heavier. They did bring in one table and one table is indicative of hey I need a clean place to set my gear down so it doesn't get contaminated because and the tables we use are ones that you can bleach or you know you have to sterilize them when you're done. A big part of being on any type of

50:38 standby because I want to ask you about that. There was a there was a debate whether it was a table or whether it was like an evidence kit and then there was speculation about what kind of kit. Uh apologies to go right to a break, but we are that's the kind of show it is. It's a jam-packed one today. We're right back with Moren after this quick break. If you are stressed out about getting out of debt, it's go time. This is one of those moments where timing matters. Let me tell you about done with debt. 2025 was a record year for them. People who collectively had more than $12 million in debt turned to these guys for help.

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52:05 We are back with Moren O'Connell, formerly 25 years of the FBI. These are stunning, Moren. As we went to break, uh, the FBI released four pictures of a man clearly outside of Nancy Guthri's front door in a ski mask in leather gloves wearing a backpack. And they are terrifying. All I can think looking at these is, "Oh my god, this poor 84 year old woman saw this man in her bedroom shortly after this." What they show for the listening audience is the man clearly at NY's house. He's wearing, as I said, a ski mask, the kind that covers everything on your face except for your eyes and your mouth. And he has like large He looks white. He's got very round, large eyes. You cannot tell. In the one picture, it looks like he might have facial hair, but I can't be sure.

53:05 He does. Yeah. On the last in the last photo, Megan. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, you're right. The last photo shows some facial hair there.

53:15 And you can see him, for the listening audience, it appears ripping out the the Nest camera. It looks like he's looking right into the camera that is obviously on her front door. There's one picture there, Moren, that's confusing because it looks almost like vegetation he's holding.

53:33 Yeah, it's probably a bird's nest. These are black and white photos. It's probably a bird's nest that that um was behind the nest camera. And if you if you recall, Megan, this looks like the same vegetation that we saw in the blood droplets on the porch. So, apparently the blood that uh ended up on the front porch ended up on top of this or around this vegetation. Do you remember seeing that vegetation? If you play that that um video again, that's exactly what we're going to see. But the the clothing in here is

54:05 we're looking at some of the blood here. This is the Brian Anton video of the blood droplets.

54:10 See that v vegetation right there? That's from a a a bird. I'll bet a bird made a bird's nest there.

54:17 And we can see him in one of the shots ripping it. It looks I mean it's clear as day, frankly. Ripping it out from where the nest cam is. And it looks like almost like in another picture like he's punching punching it. U Moren, can you see? So with his right hand, so I I think we know he's right-handed,

54:36 he's punching the nest cam, or so it would look. And he in the left hand, they're both gloved in black gloves. He's holding something, but I can't

54:47 I can't make out what it is. It looks like a It's got a white handle to it. Looks almost like I'm trying to see whether it looks like a

54:54 It looks almost like the actual nest nest camera. And my guess is um yeah, he's punching with his right arm, but when he's grabbing the vegetation, that's with his left arm.

55:07 That's true. So, he could be a left. And here's Okay, go ahead. Here's the statement from the FBI just released by Cash Patel. New images in the search for Nancy Guthrie. Over the last eight days, the FBI and Puma County Sheriff's Department have been working closely with our private sector partners to continue to recover any images or video footage from Nancy Guthri's home that may have been lost, corrupted, or inaccessible due to a variety of factors, including the removal of recording devices. The video was recovered from residual data located in backend systems. working with our partners. As of this morning, law enforcement has uncovered these previously inaccessible new images showing an armed individual. He says he's armed, appearing to have tampered with the camera at Nancy Guthri's front door the morning of her disappearance.

55:57 Anyone with information, please contact 1800 Call FBI. 1800 Call FBI. And now the sheriff has released an identical statement. So he says it was recovered from residual data located in backend systems. What does that mean to you, Moren?

56:12 That means that um um stuff that for example when you uh get that alert on your phone that says um we've detected someone in your at your home or something. Even if you don't have a subscription, they the company should have a thumbnail of that of of those images and they should be able to get them. was really surprising when I heard that they didn't have the um any images because I have a guy on my team that is a world-class expert. I mean scary. He's so good. And he told me that he's shocked that they weren't able to do that. So my guess is the FBI was able to do this because this is this is rather um um sophisticated. But so they have to store that type of a um um of a image when they put it out as a thumbnail. So if nothing else, it's on their system, not on NY's, if that makes any sense.

57:11 And I think they're saying So in other words, they were captured in the moments before he tore down the the Ring camera and or the Nest camera and the Nest camera might have transmitted something back to the system

57:22 or or or they hold it on their system. But I think why they're saying armed is if you look at this first image, which I I didn't know what he was holding at first, but I'm looking at it now, that's a holstered weapon in in what we would call a concealed um a concealed carry holster. It's supposed to be on the inside of your pants, but it looks like he's got it somehow on the

57:44 Maybe it's maybe I don't know what how he has it attached to the front of his pants, but I I think that's what that is. That is a that is a weapon. Yep.

57:55 Is that a gun? It is a gun. And if um you know when I when I come on again, I can or I can run and grab a concealed. I have one that looks almost exactly like that.

58:06 And it's made of this like rubbery kind of material so that if you put it inside your um your your pants, inside your waistband, it sticks a little bit to your skin and a little bit to your clothing. And uh that's exactly what that looks like to me. That's what that is. That's he's he's got a holstered weapon right there.

58:26 I mean, this I this is so terrifying to me. I You're You're a lifelong law enforcement. I don't know how this grabs you, but this is so terrifying to me to think of this large man

58:36 with this with this face mask and a gun and a backpack like and the gloves showing. This is every woman's worst nightmare to wake up to this, never mind at 84 years old.

58:47 Absolutely. The other thing um I want to say is when I've worked a lot of kidnappings on the evidence response team mainly of children unfortunately but the one question you want to ask yourself is does the perpetrator have a proclivity or a predisposition to violence? And in this case here's a man with a gun on the front porch and 41 minutes later we've got blood on the front porch. So the answer yes and that is not good for anyone.

59:22 The the other thing I I don't know I mean everybody listening to this who can't see the images is of course wondering is it is it the brother-in-law because that's the only one we've heard mentioned. don't mean to condemn this this man because we have nothing other than Ashley Banfield's reporting from a senior law enforcement officer that she trusts implicitly that she says is impeccably sourced um that he right now may be the prime suspect as of last uh Tuesday. Right now may be the the prime suspect. Okay. So that's been one week ago. I will tell you I don't know other than it does indeed appear that he has dark facial hair because in that one circle around the the mouth you can see hair above the top lip and you can see black hair under the bottom lip. But here's what I do want to say, Moren.

1:00:11 You and I might not be able to determine who that is from looking at it, but if you're married to him, you would absolutely look at the shoes. There's so much information here. First of all, he's wearing rather distinctive clothing. He's not wearing all black. All black would be a lot more difficult to um decipher what he's wearing. He looks like his feet may be a little bit shorter, but the bureau can determine or law enforcement can determine exactly how tall this person is based on this because they're going to there's I'm sure you can do it easier with AI, but Jim Fitzgerald can tell you too that they they can, you know, they're going to count those bricks and the distance he is and where he's standing on the mat. They're going to reenact that. And um I'm I'm sure Jim's been involved in a lot of cases where they've determined how tall he is, but that clothing is very distinctive.

1:01:02 Speak of the devil. Uh we called Jim when this news broke and asked him to join us and here he is, Jim Fitzgerald. Jim, these pictures are shocking. Your reaction to this breaking news?

1:01:11 Yeah, I'm literally looking at it for the first time and in the last few minutes and uh this is amazing and and my good friend Moren uh knows her stuff as well as anyone. She she's absolutely right. They're going to have all kinds of photo experts at breaking this down. And we only have a black and white image here. I'm not sure. Possibly there's color somewhere else, at least what I'm looking at. But this guy came uh he came ready for bear. He's got his uh his abduction kit with him uh in some kind of a backpack. I can't exactly see what it is, but looks like he has something on his back. Of course, wearing gloves, wearing face mask, which tells us something. Now, we thought all along that the person who did this may have known there was no subscription service.

1:01:52 Um, and uh, and that's why they didn't have to worry about it. This guy didn't want to take that chance and and wore the full mask here that would cover almost all of his face. But, as Moren was saying, as I just signed on here, you can see some features through there. And that's that's that's a big clue. Shoes, pants, sons. Uh uh Megan, you mentioned his wife, you know, his his buddies, his his siblings, someone, especially with this award out there. This changes the entire paradigm of this investigation. It does nothing. I we still don't know if this guy's the kidnapper looking for money, meaning the for-profit part of this. Uh we don't know if that's the person sending these things, but this person at least is the abductor. And that's where we have to start right now.

1:02:35 That's huge, huge, huge, huge. Such a huge investigative break. Yes. That they were able to recover these images. All I can think, Moren, is this is how Tyler Robinson was apprehended. They they got an image of him from the stairwell going up to the roof of Charlie Kirk's murder. And he wasn't identifiable. He too tried to disguise himself except to people who knew him. So, if this guy's married or has buddies or colleagues, if he works, you know, it's going to be a lot like if this were my husband, I would know. If if this were, you know, my executive producer, I would know. I'd know the build. I'd know the general facial look.

1:03:16 Like, there he's not as masked as he thinks. And that initial stance in that first photo is very distinctive um to me. Uh what I would be doing is hopefully uh the law enforcement initially on scene and hopefully the FBI ERT team did a bunch of dumpster diving or checked a bunch of trash or at least uh made notations as to when and where the trash pickups were and what quadrant of the um of the uh dump they went to so that they can start searching because or even the trash at that Circle K where there there was some activity initially um when uh that night I think someone was saying that there was some activity at that Circle K location. I would also check that

1:04:03 and they went the cops went there and asked for surveillance video from the Circle K. The Circle K employees confirm that to the media.

1:04:09 Right. But I always go for the I always go to the trash. I I spent a lot of time in dumpsters and it's it's horrifying in some ways but you get a lot of really you really great information.

1:04:20 Oh. So when you look at this when you look at this picture, tell me what like as a law enforcement person, Jim, what what are the cops looking at on him there? Like I see a backpack that there's something odd about how the backpack appears around his shoulders. I'm not sure what I'm seeing there. It's like there's the black strap, but then there's something underneath it. Like maybe it's a pad and there's a couple of reflective stripes maybe at the top. I'm not sure. But is all that just distinctive wear for the backpack andor the sweatshirt that the cops are going to try to figure out the maker of perhaps? Like what do what do you do with that information?

1:04:54 Well, I'm looking at this initially um Megan as a behavioralist and what this tells me profiler and what this tells me is this and we've said this early on. I certainly did. This abductor was missionoriented. This guy wasn't just drunk walking down the street and happened to see the house, you know, a car driving. He's driving by in the car. Let's check this place out. This guy was planned. This this event was planned. He was very well set up ready to do this. And uh uh and he's carrying on his back. We call them rape kits. We call them kill kits. This is his I hate to say it. It could be one of those, but certainly his abduction kit he has in the back. Handcuffs, uh uh you know, electrical ties, duct tape. He has all kinds of material in there.

1:05:38 Pepper spray. who knows what he's carrying in there to help out his cause uh in in completing this mission. So, this tells us so much more not random uh planned uh who exactly the person is. But yeah, to go back to your original question, uh they have all kinds of databases set up that the bureau uh in terms of looking at different products and brands. Moren said shoes, sneakers, whatever they are. I can't tell here necessarily, but they're going to try to trace every one of these items of clothing. um uh whether this guy decides to keep them. There's been some of these people that are cheap skates, don't want to get rid of their stuff, or decides it was already disposed of or now will be disposed of that this uh picture came out. He may have caught a whole week went by and he caught the biggest break in the world. Including that some people from Eastern Europe decided to do a kidnapping. We don't know that for a

1:06:26 fact. Yes. And he said, "Oh man, wow, I am so lucky here." Uh, and and again, I can 100% rule out this guy that also sends some, you know, emails looking for money, but at the same time, I think I'm leaning towards there being separate incidents, one the opportunist, the latter part of it, but this is a big clue here. And and does anyone here know, Megan or Marine? Is this from the Nest camera that we thought had no subscription?

1:06:53 It's got to be. Yeah, it's it's Yes, it's got. And here's here's more from Director Cash Patel. This is just coming in. There's video videos coming in. We're going to put it on the board. Uh, additional This is from Cash posted on X. Additional recovered images from the same camera at Nancy Guthri's front door. So, it's it is the Nest Cam the morning of her disappearance, including two videos of the individual. Anyone with information, please contact 1800 call FBI. Um, okay. So, here's here are the new images he just sent in. Here's the person as he approaches the door.

1:07:24 You can see he's holding he's got one hand close to his front pocket. Here's another one as he's approaching the scene from a little farther away. You can see he's kind of like he's

1:07:36 I want to say he's portly. Uh he's definitely not Yeah, he's not slim. He I wouldn't describe him as lanky. He's not incredibly tall. I'm sure the FBI can figure out how tall he is, but he looks six feet or under to me. I don't know. I'm not good at guessing these things, but here he is now approaching. There's video, you guys. Look at this, of him approaching the Nest Cam. Hold on. We're we're getting it queued up. I don't know if you guys can see it on your phone, but he walks up slowly. He takes his right hand, the the side like the where your pinky knuckle is, and he starts kind of like it looks like he's banging it. He's trying to get the not hard though. Um then he turns around. Now I can see the back of the backpack. This is going to be very helpful. They're going to be able to see what brand this is. He walks away. He's walking out toward Holy cow. What did he just do? He picked up He picked up vegetation,

1:08:32 Morin. He picked up vegetation. He walked He He knocked it trying to knock the Nest camera off. I'm getting this queued up. It It appears he failed. He's not really banging it hard. It's almost gentle. He turns around. He bends down. He's looking down. He walks to the archway that leads you out of off of her patio to the uh you know exterior. He picks up vegetation from the ground and then it flashes and you don't and that's the end of that that frame. But okay, now now there's another frame. Now he's got the vegetation in his hand.

1:09:05 He's using it, Moren. He's using it. It's like now it's stuck. Maybe it's his camouflage. He's It seems like he's sticking it into the camera lens. Here we've got one. Let's play it. Okay, this is the one, the second one where it looks like he's shoving it now. He's got the vegetation in his hand and it looks like he's shoving it into the lens. Maybe he doesn't think he can get the Nest camera down.

1:09:29 Yeah, maybe he thought it would be hard to camouflage. He thought it was hardwired, so he thought he could just obscure the lens, but then realized he couldn't.

1:09:38 That makes sense because the previous one, hold on, we'll get it for you, is a treasure trove, you guys. It's a treasure trove. And also, here's the one. Okay, here's the one that I was trying to describe. He's walking up. Look at him with the gloved hand. Four, five, like five gentle taps. He's covering the ring, the Nest camera, like the top of it. Another two taps. Turns his back.

1:10:07 Look how packed that backpack is. He's ready for bear. But I guess he didn't bring duct tape or something with him. Uh but May just wasn't do he doesn't want to do it out in front of the house yet. So he's trying to pick up something very convenient to him. Uh

1:10:20 oh, he went back and picked up the vegetation. Well, yeah. And now we relooped it.

1:10:26 Did he go back for the gun? No. Well, I No, I think I think he went back for the vegetation because if you watch this now, I've had the advantage of seeing a couple more times. Look. So, he's bending over. So, now look, Moren, he's going to the back. He bends down. He picks something up in his hand. He comes back. Hold on. And he's going to walk back to the camera here.

1:10:45 No. Do is it? Hold on. I just want to make sure. Does Are you guys playing the same one that I have in my phone? Because the one that I have in my phone. Hold on. No. No. Hold on. Let me just make sure. The one I have in my phone. He's got something in his hand. It is the vegetation. You can see it.

1:10:59 Okay. Okay. So, I'm I'm not sure if you guys can see the very last frame, but Moren, he grabs the vegetation. You can see it's like all the leaves at the very last shot of that that reel we just played where you can see his backpack stuffed to the brink with materials. And then the next frame the FBI sent is of the vegetation getting like shoved into the camera. Uh and Savannah now is posting the pictures on her Instagram too. Uh with the following message

1:11:28 this poor woman. She must have just it it reads we believe she is still alive. Bring her home. Anyone with information, please contact 1800 call FBI.

1:11:39 Oh my god. I certainly hope I'm trying to determine handedness of uh of him. It looks like he's holding things in right and left hand. Obviously right hand 90% of the population. Left-hander uh would narrow down that suspect pool, but we we can't really tell that so far.

1:11:54 Fitz, I would guess right-handed, even though I see him using both hands, but I would guess right-handed for one reason, and that's the orientation of the weapon in his waistband with

1:12:03 Whoa. Whoa. I didn't even see the weapon. Oh, yeah. You weren't here when we went over that. Um,

1:12:09 please show me in the still shots, Jim. In the still shots, show Jim the the still shots you guys where you can see like the the the first shot of the still shots.

1:12:17 Megan, should I run and get my to show you? Yeah. Could you stand by, stand by,

1:12:23 you do that and I'll talk to Jim. What Moren said here, Jim, if you look at it, I don't know if you can I'm not sure if we can zoom in on it, but on your phone you could certainly could, but it looks it's right where his crotch is in front of his crotch and it's white with a black outline. And uh we're getting a closer up shot so you can see here too though. You can see it where he's punching the ring the ring cam.

1:12:46 Can you see it down below with his other hand holding it? seems an unusual and moren was saying

1:12:53 a holster. Well, Moren was saying she thinks it's it's a holster that would normally go on the inside of your pants that kind of sticks to your leg more.

1:12:59 Okay. And the reason we first noticed it is because Cash Patel's tweet says he's armed.

1:13:04 And um Okay. Well, so then we started looking for where and Moren said that's she thinks that's the weapon. It's white. It's got a black outline. It definitely has something black coming out the top of it which looks consistent with a gun though. That's a much clearer shot. I think first time I've seen this picture that you have up there now. That is clearly a weapon was blown up. You can tell make and model most likely. And yeah, that would definitely lean towards right-handed if the holster is, you know, above the right leg there. Uh so, uh which again 90% of the population, but still interesting to know. Uh, again, more even more missionoriented than I thought, including everything in that almost like a parachute. It's packed in there. Of course, it's not, but he has a plenty of stuff in that backpack, which uh uh which is would enable him to carry any carry through with any contingency today uh or that

1:13:58 night when things went wrong. Let's get a still shot of that backpack, you guys, so we can we can take a closer look at it. Jim, what we've what we we do know a couple of we don't know who this is, but we do know a couple of things here. We know for sure Nancy Guthrie did not wander off.

1:14:12 No, I mean that theory is dead. We thought it was dead anyway because we knew the Nest cameras were destroyed and taken. So, whatever. We said that at the top of the show. We know that's true now. She did not wander off. She was taken. She was taken by a man, at least one man. Um, by the way, Sheriff, this is just in from the sheriff's office. There are no press briefings planned at this time. Sheriff Nanos is not conducting one-on-one interviews. Same message he's been giving. So, he's not updating us based on these new information. This new information is going to have to come from the FBI if anybody. Um, so we know that Nancy Guthrie did not wander off.

1:14:47 We know she was taken. She was abducted. We don't know that it was a kidnapping. We don't know that this person had anything to do whatsoever with the Bitcoin demands or any other demands. We believe we believe the family's been outspoken about any and all demands they've received that there's not a secret other demand that this person may have made. We don't know what the motive is. He went in there meaning business, armed. We know he hurt Nancy in some way and we know he he got her out of there. Um, can we see I didn't even look to see whether there's any shot of a vehicle in the back. You can see clear as day her mailbox down the lane.

1:15:28 I don't actually is I actually don't know the property well enough to know. Is that her driveway on the other side of that black mailbox? Like is her driveway circular? Yes.

1:15:39 Leading to a straightaway gravel? Yes. Okay. So then there's no car visible in this shot. At least that I can say. I don't see a car visible in the shot at all. Doesn't mean he didn't drive one. I don't know how the hell he got 150 lb woman out of there who could barely move if he didn't have a car. Um but that's kind of good news. Well, I guess it's not great news because it'd be better if we had images of the car in this shot, but maybe it was closer to the road.

1:16:12 Mhm. Maybe they have a better idea of what vantage point to look from to find any potential um vantage point on this. But this looks like a treasure trove of new information. Moren, tell us about your gun.

1:16:24 Treasure p. Well, my husband has the longer one, but here's my smaller Glock. And see, this is the the um holster I'm talking about. It's tacky on the exterior, but the the other one we have does have that longer nose for a longer barreled um handgun. So, um I don't I can't tell what kind of gun that is from there, but see how it goes a lot longer. That's a longer and actually the back of that does look like a a Glock. Let me

1:16:54 Are you think they're going to be able to tell what kind of gun it is? Do you think like law enforcement's going to have that figured out?

1:16:59 Yeah, pretty close. They'll be able to tell. It's It's clearly a semi-automatic. It looks like with an extended magazine perhaps in it for carrying extra rounds, but they need more of a close-up to determine that.

1:17:10 Yeah, they'll be able to enhance that. So, that'll I mean, I don't know exactly how you put that together with a you know, you can't just figure out who's bought who's purchased semi-automatic handguns, even if it's a Glock with an extended magazine. I mean, you could go back years. You know, you're not going to be able to get to it from that. But maybe from the backpack guys, like the the brand of the backpack. I mean, that's what they did in the pipe bomb case. They went they went to every Radio Shack. They tried to, you know, figure out what are the ingredients that would be in this thing.

1:17:42 And just by shoe leather police work, you know, step by step, they found themselves what they say is the perpetrator.

1:17:48 It so often comes down to good police work. And this is this is going to come down to what you said from the very beginning, Megan, which is someone is going to identify this person. someone is looking at this and saying, "Oh pardon me."

1:18:04 They know because because of the compilation of all these different little elements

1:18:09 and they're going to realize that whoever that and that's why they put out the picture.

1:18:12 Whoever that someone is somehow started acting funky around Saturday and then certainly the whole week after the post offense behavior we're talking about. So, we don't know if this guy's a loner, married, kids. I would say more on the loner side, but they're gonna Boy, that could pass for, you know, my husband Joe or my brother Bill and yeah, he's been really weird the last week and a half and he's been following things on the internet left and right and uh, you know, sending off these emails. I mean that that could be for something else, but he's really looking into this and uh and that could also so the behavioral aspects of not just the identity of this person based on their description in the in these uh videos and these still photos

1:18:51 or your neighbor. Well, the other thing we have too, thankful thankfully from the walking, we we can see his gate, Moren, we can see how he walks, which is also another big tell.

1:19:00 Yes. And I notice how people walk. I can I can tell their footfall uh as they walk down the hallway who's coming. And so this is uh this is the break I think we've all been waiting for. The other thing I want to say is with that weapon, even though they can't we can't, you know, definitively tie anything to that, if within this pool of individuals that the FBI and the and the law enforcement has been honing in on and and asking for DNA and looking for everything, if within that pool they have someone that owns that type of weapon, that's just going to narrow that that uh that group of individuals down considerably.

1:19:38 Good point. Or who looks like this. I mean, they may have a a gardener who's got these eyes. Exactly. Forgive me. I hate to blame the gardener at all time. I mean, I was like, they may have somebody that they're already talking to who's got these exact eyes and this exact build. And that's that's excluding the wife who's going to see that jacket. The jacket's actually pretty distinctive. As I'm looking at him, uh, banging on the, uh, on the Nest cam, it it appears to be a warmer jacket with like the fleece. You can see sort of up the sleeve a little. It's at least layers of white, I don't know, wool.

1:20:17 It looks kind of like fleece. So, it's Yep. It's warm. But I would I would caution people against thinking that the the jacket is striped because I I'm what I think that is is reflective uh material on the jacket for hiking or something like that.

1:20:34 Mhm. What the hell's in that backpack, guys? That's a really scary thought. Looks like it's filled to the brim, whatever it is. And he was prepared for everything. Although, weirdly, and again, he may have had duct tape with him, but he didn't just put that over top of the camera. He's pulling out, you know, flora, uh, vegetation of some sort from the front yard. I mean, uh, kind of a a MacGyver rule there, uh, uh, play there on his part, but, uh, it obviously didn't work that in in that regard. And to go back to identification, just real quick, I I worked the BTK case early on in 2000. And then I watched the special, I guess it was on Netflix in the last week or so. And here he kept his whole rape kit and kill kit, BTK kit, I guess you could call it, uh, in right in the house. The wife apparently had seen it a few times, bowling ball bag full of all kinds of handcuffs and ties, duct tape,

1:21:25 and she never thought of even even questioning about it. So folks, if you're out there and there's somebody that has weird bags or backpacks in this case, and there's any kind of unusual material in there, not really needed for hunting or camping, and the person kind of looks like the one we're seeing on the video, please call the the tip line number and let's get this guy identified. Maybe they're innocent, but let's get that that person out there. And I guarantee you, Moren knows this. We've been on these task forces in the past. Uh the phone and and and is ringing off the hook and emails are coming in. Now the question is how do they characterize all these leads and who do they prioritize?

1:22:01 But here's my question right now. Here here here's here's where I I what I what we need to ask.

1:22:06 If you're this guy and you are out there right now and this is an oh moment because your picture is now going to be plastered all over every newspaper, every television station, every podcast, everything in America. What do you do? Is there is there a threat to the public? If Nancy Guthrie is still alive, does this help her? I mean, obviously it helps her if they can catch him like ASAP, but does he panic? You know, like should there be a message coming soon from the FBI like don't do anything, you know, like it I don't know. How do you handle this?

1:22:44 I would say it could go either either way, but I would I would think it might help Nancy. the only, you know, it gives me great joy to think of this person squirming even though his squirm is nowhere as frightening as as what Nancy went through. However, with that backpack being that packed, I'm wondering, did he bring a tarp or a blanket or something? Because um you know, Jim and I know too well how hard it is to move a a body, but it's a lot easier if you have a blanket or a um uh or a tarp.

1:23:20 A tarp. That's how hunters do. You know, it I was thinking for a second may maybe if like the remnants of the Nest camera got these shots, the remnants of it got him leaving. But that's not what happened. This is the Nest camera is still in its it in its spot. The Nest camera did get pictures of the perpetrator. It's just and he did remove the camera. It's just something in the system. Even though the sheriff told us that a presser it he was told by the company that they hadn't gotten it so far, but he said we're asking them to continue checking something. I mean, they hit pay dirt.

1:23:55 They they got they got the gold, you guys. Like they somehow the system did still have this. Megan, do you think this is what they were looking for in NY's house last night in the dark was using oblique lighting like I talked about at the top of the this show to try to identify any of this uh vegetation that might be on the floor where boots were or where he keeps his shoes or in closets or anything like that. I think that might be something.

1:24:21 That's a great question. That's a great question. Like a face mask. Um yeah, or boots. I mean,

1:24:29 I would say the face mask is gone. I I would guess because of the situation and because how big it's gotten, no matter what has happened, my guess is he would have gotten rid of a lot of this, but but Fitz would know better than I would. However, if he's not a really fastidious fidiously clean person, we'd be able to find some of that foliage in that in that house. But but what the argument against it is if they if they went into the brother-in-law's house and if this if this is him and there is facial hair, but that's all we know for sure. I mean, we made a close-up shot of the one face.

1:25:08 And that is definitely a mustache, a dark mustache above his top lip there. And in the other picture, it appears that there's facial hair down below the bottom lip, too. Um, if if that were the case, Moren, and they found a backpack, certainly if they found the face mask, I think we'd be talking about an arrest right now and not an appeal to the public to help us identify this guy, right? And and what does it tell us, if anything, I'm going to start calling you Fitz, too. I like that, Jim. Um, sorry. What does it tell us that No, I like it.

1:25:39 You guys have a history. Um, what does it tell us that they haven't placed him under arrest and that they actually are issuing a general appeal to the public for any information? Does that tell us that it's not the brother-in-law? They they they don't think it's him.

1:25:55 I'll start here. Uh, uh, Megan, uh, but we we know and and Moren knows this well, they've had these pictures for a few days. They didn't just get in this morning and release them right away. So, we're talking about what is this offender doing with these things? what is hiding them, destroying them, what could happen to, of course, Mrs. Guthrie, these are all kinds of questions involved in the uh post offense behavior of this particular offender. And now that the stakes have been raised as of the last hour or so, uh that he now is aware of this just like we are on this panel that that's when he has some decisions to make.

1:26:29 Let's hopefully he plays it smart here and if he somehow does have uh Mrs. Guthrie in his custody and she is still alive, nothing bad happens there. But uh but yeah, if he had a mustache, and I I won't go into whether it's the brother-in-law or not. Can't rule anything out or anyone out. But if we're seeing a little bit of a mustache, two things. Either it was planted there in advance and it uh as a as a as a decoy or uh or if it's real,

1:26:55 it's come off as of about an hour ago. Uh and and that is someone that's something we should put out there. Did someone change their identity? And we know this very well for these people that become suspects in cases. Is there anything they've done to change their identity? Obviously, did they leave town? Have they missed work last week? Have they missed other commitments where they should have been somewhere? And again, look at the visual representation of this person. It's not 100% clear. We get it on video, but tie in these other factors and put them in these individual silos in your life. And then see at the bottom if the grain all comes out, say, "Well, wait a minute. Yeah, I have a guy. He's kind of goofy, a buddy, and he was absent all last week and he's always talking about he wants to make a big, you know, big uh money hit somehow." and uh and he carries his gun and he always brags about it and and and that's that's

1:27:39 what this all may come together and someone may be that's what's going to go to the the top of that triage list that Moren referenced in terms of who the suspect is if they get that kind of a call.

1:27:49 Let me um all week we've been having uh different experts with your your kind of background on the show. One of them is uh Jonathan Gileiam. He just texted us his thoughts and here's an interesting one, Moren. He writes, "He's not in any hurry, that's for sure.

1:28:04 And he had no problem walking right up to that camera, although it was really dark there, so he might not have seen it. But I find it very interesting how he turned around and went straight to something on the ground as if he knew it was there." Which leads me back to the familiarity he has and how he got that familiarity. Perhaps it's one of the roofers or some other type of laborer. Perhaps this was a robbery and Nancy woke up. If that's the case, I would expect her body to be close to home, but if it's a relative, then the heat is getting heavy and they will break soon.

1:28:37 He also sees gun on the waistband, mustache for sure. Uh, he says, "You know what else this tells me? The Nest cameras are actually recording what you're doing, even when you don't have a subscription." There's a fair amount of Americans who are kind of freaked out about their Nest camera and their um Ring camera after that Super Bowl commercial that tried to get us to get one so that we could find lost dogs. Then we all realize that we're all on camera all the time and somebody at ring is watching it, which is creepy. But I think this point about He's right, Moren. How he turned around and went straight to something on the ground as if he knew it was there. that that that plant, the vegetation he picked up.

1:29:19 It was weird. Can we see that video again, you guys? Can you play that again? Because it was like completely confident. He did a couple of bangs with the fist. Here he is. He's walking out for listening audience.

1:29:28 One, two, three, four, five. Gentle, gentle bangs. Now he's cupping it. Couple more gentle like taps almost. He turns around

1:29:40 like, "Is it coming off easy for a second?" No, it's not. Yeah. Yep. Oh, he walks over there.

1:29:45 Look what I found. This should work. Yep. He bends down like he knew exactly, you know, where he was going and then came right back. I mean, I don't know if that shows familiarity with the property. And if it if it does, it could certainly suggest he's just been there before. But it is interesting. He knew right where to go. Meen.

1:30:04 Well, the backpack tells me he he was not there to rob anybody. There's no room to put anything in that backpack. If you're going there to steal something, you're going to have an empty bag. It's like when you go to Milan or something, you're going to pick up some great Italian clothing. You're bringing an empty bag with you

1:30:19 so you can fill it up. He's not going in there with a jam-packed backpack. What could he I mean, unless she's a diamond broker, there's going to be no room in there for anything.

1:30:31 And why would he have a gun for an 84 year old lady? This was an abduction. That's what this was. I agree with you. This wasn't a burglary.

1:30:38 This was an abduction. It was planned and he knew about Yes, that's the thing. So,

1:30:45 so let's put kidnapping to the side for one second. If you want to go murder an 84 year old woman, why don't you leave her there? Why? You did the mask. You got your gloves on. What is the point of we think taking her out alive? We only think that because there's blood. I mean, A, she's gone, so we know she was taken out, but B, she was bleeding. I mean, a a corpse can bleed, too. But she was bleeding. And the the pacemaker was connected to the iPhone as of at least 228. It's possible he then he then killed her or I don't know because I think the the pacemaker would show she had died

1:31:27 prior to her pacemaker disconnecting from the phone. So, I do believe she was removed from the home still alive. But, I mean, I suppose it could be he didn't want the mess. He didn't want the evidence. And so, his plan was, I'm getting her out of here and I'm going to go either kill her someplace else or maybe it was an attempted kidnapping. And maybe that kidnapping is still underway. Maybe he's just maybe he got foiled by these charlatans who who zoomed in trying to claim they were the kidnappers and is still planning on making a demand.

1:32:07 You'd think he would have left a note of some sort at the scene. That's the best way to prove you're the real deal as a kidnapper. Leave something at the scene and you can guard it with gloves and and keep your fingerprints DNA off it. The uni bomber got away with that for years. Nothing was ever found on his documents. It was his writing of course that eventually got to him and and maybe that could have been a clue for this guy that he was concerned about. But uh yeah, and and and with an older woman like this, why does he need a gun? Did he really think he'd have to shoot her or someone else? Uh I would also say if you're going to leave if you're uh if you're a stranger, you'd be more inclined to leave the body behind because no one's going to connect you to it. If you're someone, and I'm not going to say family, but if you're somehow connected to that house, you may then have more of

1:32:51 a reason for taking the body. So, there'd be no other uh indices of of uh of death or indications of death in in that regard. So, it's it's we we just don't know. I of course we never can rule out the

1:33:04 Well, there's something else here, Jim. Let me let me let me jump in. There's another video just dropped and we're going to put it up. Um hold on a second. I'm trying to see it. Uh okay, it's on the screen. He's walking up

1:33:17 with his head down, weirdly. Kind of casually. It's just a few seconds. It's hard to see. He's kind of just sauntering up there very casually. He's got He does have an interesting kind of walk.

1:33:32 It's It's almost like even with the mask on, he didn't necessarily want the camera to look at him directly, so he kind of puts his head down, but eventually

1:33:41 you can see it. Uh, so that that alter he modified himself in that regard. Yes.

1:33:47 But this is like keep my head down for now. There's nothing on the floor that I think would be attracted to him.

1:33:55 Yes, guys. That's Debbie Murphy just said she she sees something flashing in his mouth. And I thought I saw that before. Yes. I don't know if you can see it.

1:34:06 It does look like a light. He has a It looks like he's got a light in his mouth. Oh, a small flashlight. People sometimes like even cops will hold a flashlight um

1:34:17 in their mouth like this so they can It looked like that here. Look here. Yeah.

1:34:20 Yeah. Look at this one. It's hard to tell if it was a reflection or not, but it it we can see the beam on the other one you just showed, Megan. You can see the beam hit the ground. So, that is a flashlight.

1:34:29 Yes. So, why is he why does he have the flashlight in his mouth as he's walking up? His head is for listening audience now. I can see it clearly. He's coming onto the property underneath the archway that brings you onto her patio. He his head is down. He's looking down almost like he's forlororn, but obviously it's a disguise to keep his face from looking into the cam. And you can see in the first frame of it as he's walking toward there's a there's a light in his mouth that is on and then it's off and then he walks up and then it comes back on because we saw it earlier in a still shot of him messing with the Nest Cam.

1:35:05 But why why when you're approaching the home would you have the flashlight in your mouth?

1:35:11 Because it's pitch black out there and he want you want to keep your hands free and so you put the flashlight in your mouth. Um it'd be interesting if they found a flashlight in there like in the flurry of activity. It may have been left behind and now that's that's another thing from these videos that that has the wheels in my brain turning. One of them is touch DNA. They're going to be looking for touch DNA everywhere on those plants because even though he's wearing gloves, he's wearing leather gloves, not sterile, you know, latex gloves. He's wearing probably his own leather gloves which will have his DNA on them. They're going to be able to get go to the housing of of where that camera was um where he wrestled it from the housing. And there this is this is the break we've been waiting for.

1:36:03 Well, do you think Moren that they have other images that they're not releasing? Because we don't what we don't see in here is him successfully get the nest cam down.

1:36:16 Yes. I I would I would think they they may have more. Well, especially since we've gotten three iterations in the last 3 minutes. Um I wouldn't be surprised if they had more. Uh, I remember, if you recall, the camera that the ERT members got off the roof of the house apparently had some sort of um uh solar panel attached to it. So, that that might be something they're trying to retrieve information from as well.

1:36:45 That one too could have recovered images. They got that one later in the game. It's possible they're searching that one right now. Were you going to say something, Jim?

1:36:52 Um, no. Morin Morin more or less covered it there. But uh the flashlight part, yeah, free up his hands. They obviously sell them like a minor type of hat or certainly a band you can put around your head which is very effective for freeing up your hands and having lights. This guy didn't go that route. He had some sort that he puts in his mouth. He's probably, and again, I'm looking at this from a behavioralist perspective. If anyone knows this guy, I wouldn't put a flashlight in my mouth. I wouldn't put anything in my mouth except food and my hands. And I'm just like that. A lot of people are, especially postcoid. This is a guy who may walk around and do little chores around the house when it's even semi dark with a flashlight in his mouth. So again, there's another clue, folks out there, if you're listening, besides the looks on the video, the uh the backpack, all that stuff. He's been

1:37:40 missing the last week or very preoccupied. Who do you know that carries a flashlight in their mouth? Not everyone does that. It could be dangerous too.

1:37:47 It's very true. And uh you can knock your mouth. That would make most of us feel very uncomfortable. Like most people would not want to do that unless they were like in in a cave trying to rescue themselves.

1:37:57 Plus hard metal. You can knock your teeth out very easily. So Fitz is right. That isn't something that a lot of people do, but I have seen I I have seen guys do that before. I prefer the headlamp personally

1:38:08 or under my arm as a cop. Here's my other Abigail Fein, my trusty assistant. She she makes sure we always have a headlamp in my family. She takes care of us. Um, I want to ask what this rules out. Like I would suggest this doesn't tell this doesn't scream Mexican cartel to me, but hold that thought because we have to take a break. We're coming up to the end of the hour. I I I'd love to hold you guys over. Um, there's obviously a lot happening right now. So, we'll hold you over. We'll take a break and we will be right back um in just a minute. Don't go away.

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1:39:34 We are back now with the Megan Kelly show covering breaking news in the investigation into what happened to Nancy Guthrie. The FBI in a stunning move releasing shocking pictures of what is clearly the perpetrator uh who hurt Nancy Guthrie who seems to have abducted her. For what purpose we do not know. uh releasing images that appear to be from her Nest camera on her front door before he was, we are told, able to disconnect it. We are told that the disconnection happened at 1:47 a.m. And therefore, it would appear that these images we are seeing now, courtesy of the FBI, happened just prior to that because it took this guy a minute to figure out exactly how to disconnect the thing. Back with me now, Moren O' Connell. She's co-host of the Best Cased Worstcase Podcast and Jim Fitzgerald, co-host of Cold Red Podcast.

1:40:27 And um they're both long-term veterans of the FBI. Um so here's here's the the real question now. Um if you're this guy, and I don't know, like I have no idea. To me, I'll just say it. To me, he looks younger than the brother-in-law. His mustache looks black and the brother-in-law's is gray. and um his the brother-in-law's eyes are more hooded than appear in this guy. Okay, so I don't mean to beat up on the brother-in-law, but since he's been out there, I will say to me this doesn't look like it's a match, but um we'll find out. The FBI is going to know this very, very soon. Um but if if this is the guy, All right, let me start with this. Does this look like a professional hitman to you? Like based on what you guys saw in that video? If I can start with this, Megan, there are very, very few actual legit real quote unquote professional hitmen out there. Of course, the mob has some, the cartels

1:41:26 have them, people like that. They'll take out mostly their own kind, but for professional uh, you know, this alleged professional hitman, hit men that Hollywood likes to talk about, there are very, very few in that regard. Now, it doesn't mean there's some freelancer out there talking to some guys, sees something on the dark web and says, "Hey, I could do something like this. What's the address?" And and and this is what happens. But these these cases of again hitmen uh unless there's some lover triangle involved and and and somehow that's where the other party gets taken out, they're relatively I would say very rare quite frankly.

1:42:03 Moren, maybe you have more experience with that than my career, but just not seen very often.

1:42:09 What about the cartel piece of it? Like that that's where I left us before we left. Is this does this look to you like somebody who could possibly be affiliated with a cartel?

1:42:18 Here's the deal with the cartel, cuz I worked narcotics all those years. The cartel's job, if they're if they're kidnapping someone, it's a hit-and-run operation. meaning you get in there, you get the hell out, you do whatever you can, you have it already set up for the ransom, you get that money and it's over, and you drop that victim off someplace and let her figure out how to reach out to her family so that you don't have to. I mean, it's it's it's it's a situation that's rapid, fluid, and the whole goal is to get money. That isn't at all what we've seen here. It's it's just been this crazy rigma roll and in so many with so many data points they don't even seem to coincide with one one another. It's like if you had her prove that she's alive

1:43:02 as I watch this you guys and I mean we're all subject to our own priors and biases, right? But I I I'm thinking about the actress Rebecca Schaefer and you know she was on My Sister Sam. She was a rising star. She she starred with Pam Dober. Remember her? This is back in the 80s. Sure. And she was the younger sister. And she had just gotten to Hollywood. Her star was rising. And there was a man who became obsessed with her, who was watching her show. And she had not yet protected herself by figuring out how to layer how to put layers between you and the and the public. She was easy to find. He rang the doorbell with a dozen roses and she opened the door and um long story short, he murdered her right there on the doorstep because he was obsessed with her. I mean, because he was crazy, but he was functioning. He wasn't, you know, fire breathing, walking down the sidewalk. People did not know he was

1:43:58 crazy, but he was crazy. And he killed her. And I can't help but think whether this is a possibility with this guy who just I mean you can't rule it out that there was some obsession obviously with Savannah. I don't think many people would develop some weird obsession with an 84year-old senior citizen, but it's possible that somebody was obsessed with Savannah and she's I believe impossible to get to. But her mom's not

1:44:26 right. And this guy seems kind of young. You can't totally tell obviously, but he to me he looks kind of young and you know,

1:44:34 well, he's got that young is where the psychotic break happens. I I'm really out on a limb here. I'm just saying this is an angle that deserves some discussion.

1:44:42 I agree. But I think we're forgetting something or, you know, we may not have gotten to the point where we noticed something really important right now and that is he's at the front door. The front door is not what they were talking about in those pressers. They were talking about the back door was left open like he entered through the back door and you know was there we still don't know from um the sheriff if in fact there was forced entry but if there wasn't forced entry this person's at the front door. How'd they get in?

1:45:14 So the forced entry is going to be key. So, a if my if my memory serves, Ashley Banfield reported that there was forced entry and the sheriff has steadfastly refused to comment on it. He he won't say. And it I mean, it is maybe that's what the video shows next because I don't think we've seen all the video because we do not see the moment where he gets the the Nest camera down. Ashley's reporting that these are nest cams, not ring cams, but we don't see the moment where it disconnects and like goes dark. Um, so clearly they didn't show that for some reason. And you're right, Ashley's also reporting that the back door was open and that the guy removed the Nescam from the back door, too. And that's strange. He's at the front door.

1:45:57 He's going in the front door. We think he left the front door. Well, we don't see him go in. Um, but we we believe he exited through the front door because that's where NY's blood was, right?

1:46:07 So, clearly he at least attempted to leave with Nancy through the front door. Okay. But from a cartel standpoint, I can tell you right now, a cartel member is not going to hit that front door because it had a burglar gate on it. Those things are very hard to breach. Trust me when I tell you from experience, if I'm going to breach a door,

1:46:25 they had a what? One of those burglar doors on it, you know, the the metal uh it's all metal and the frame is actually screwed sideways about with with 6 8 12in bolts into the um side of the frame of the door. It's not something that you just put on. You know those metal ones that look kind of Spanish, but you you can't get through them. They're extremely hard to breach.

1:46:49 Well, they're very hard to breach. So, if that next video shows him trying to breach that door and he's good at it, that that's going to be that's going to be a person from a different um at a different level if if it shows him running.

1:47:03 So, maybe what happened next is he went around Yeah. Maybe he went around to the back door and got in that way. And I mean, if that's if that happened, like if if there's video showing him struggling, he can't get the door open and then he gives up and goes around to the back, then I think we can safely say it's somebody familiar with the property. Um, it could be could be a landscaper, could be somebody, you know, it's like the person knew exactly where the vegetation was and what they wanted to grab and they did it. So, it could be a friend or a family member who's familiar, but it could also be somebody like a groundskeeper, right? or someone who's just spent a fair amount of time on the property and knew immediately there's a back door that that they should get to. And frankly, that would be the that would make some sense because who that's breaking into a home like this and gets in through the front

1:47:46 door after all this stuff we're watching on camera then says, "Gee, maybe I should go disarm the Nest camera in in the back door." No one's even thinking about the back door.

1:47:55 Unless there's something we don't know. Uh again, we don't we think it's one person now. And we, you know, I surmised earlier there could have been someone in a car. Obviously, we don't see the car out front and we don't know if anyone would be in there or not. There has to be a car, I would think, for this person to make his egress, not just, of course, from the house or from the street and from the whole neighborhood. Uh, so why the back door would be involved here? Was there some sort of a a tenative walk around there to check it out at some point? And he decided out of the two doors, which one is the one easier to uh to break into? to to break down.

1:48:32 That's unknown and will have to be determined, of course, later. Is a determination which way which way the person came in as opposed to which way the person left? I don't know that either and hopefully the investigators do know, but uh uh but more camera uh information of course will tell us about all of that.

1:48:50 Um there is there's a couple of accounts on X that have tried to make the contrast higher on the photos and even bring out some color. Um, we grabbed just one of them. This is from somebody who goes by Sophie on X. And, um, you can see a little bit more clearly. The gloves look black 100%. They don't look brown

1:49:10 and leather. Um, and definitely leather. Uh, to me, the jacket, I don't know. Looks gray with lighter pants. I can't really tell. There's definitely What's that, Steve? There's a close-up of the face. I mean, he's got pretty wide. I mean, it's weird. He actually looks like he's wearing eyeliner to me in a way. He's got like Don't you see what I mean? Like I thought it was like swimming goggles almost. It looked like when when I first saw it on my phone that little first

1:49:42 Yeah. Yeah. And and it looks like there's something in his mouth. I can't tell whether maybe that's his light.

1:49:49 Camera. I'm sorry. Light. Yes. Light. It's Yeah, the light. But it's a slim It's almost like a It's a slim horizontal thing. I would have expected a round I don't know how flashlights come that could go into your mouth but it does appear to be like a long flat like rectangular thing in his mouth and the eyes look big round and like they have eyeliner which typically means the person has black hair because trust me we blondes we do not like we look like we have eyeliner on when we are not wearing eyeliner right

1:50:22 or he may have put eyeliner on because that's the only part of his face exposed besides had the lips. He may actually have eyeliner on.

1:50:31 Well, here's the other question I have for you, though. What about Oh, stand by. What? This is an aside. Brian Engine just reporting. A pizza delivery man just showed up to Nancy Guthri's house and was able to walk up to the front door without the deputies out front noticing. Oh my lord. Um, okay. Let's go back to eyeliner man. Um, he there's the fact that there's no car right behind him, you guys, is freaking me out because if you are showing up at this home to abduct a lady, an 84 year old, aren't you going to put your car right there? Like,

1:51:08 not for long period, right there. So, you can get her in. No. If you're afraid of if you're afraid of a camera being there, you'd at least, you know, you have to show yourself at some point the mask and the jacket, all that stuff, you know, hidden hair, gloves, but you don't want to have your car uh uh obvious to the camera. So, that was somehow parked on an angle. Yes, it would make his job more difficult to carry, however he did it, uh, Mrs. Guthrie out the door to the car itself, but he looks like he's big enough, hefty enough, uh not lanky, as we were saying earlier, that he could probably carry the 150lb woman to the car. And he would ideally like to have it closer, but uh from from a tactical perspective uh or counter uh forensic perspective, he wanted out of the sight of that camera. So, that would make more sense there. So, this guy, yeah, we got to give him uh credit again air quotes

1:51:59 where where it's due. Uh he is somewhat forensically sophisticated with gloves, with hat. Uh Moren's right. Uh there could be touched when you put the gloves on, leather gloves, there could be touch DNA on top of that, which then could be uh uh left in some other part of the house, too. And that could be the break they're looking for. And a bunch of people are getting their mouth swabbed, I understand, cool people in the last 24 hours or so. And that could be a result of of again this video that's come out now. And they may have something.

1:52:27 A whole bunch of people are going to get ruled out quickly. You know, if you've got more Asian eye, this is not an Asian man. I think we can say that. It's not a black man. We can say that. Um, it's not a super tall man. We can say that. It's not

1:52:38 super thin man. Super slim man, but it's not a not it's not a hugely obese man either. Uh, as a medium build.

1:52:44 Wait, before we move on, they have very round eyes. Before we move on from how slim he is, he could have he could have something tucked under his jacket in the front to make him look fatter or to make it look like he has a beer belly. We

1:52:59 so we thought that about the brown person, but that was ruled out eventually. He was fat or

1:53:04 I knew he was I knew he was by the way he walked with those fallen arches on the you know you could tell he was

1:53:11 the Brown shooter. We're talking Brown shooter. You're right. Oh, Brown University. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um hold on a second. This is Okay. Who's Well, who is this person? My My team is sending me things that are helpful, but I got to figure out who this is. It's an investigative journalist at town hall who's estimating he's between 510 and 5'11. We really we don't know. But he's actually checking he's looking out he's looking at the bricks. This is actually a thoughtful analysis because he's looking at the bricks that are there and coming up with an estimate based on the bricks and how they typically how big they typically are, how many inches they typically are to put him at about 510 and 5'11. I mean, my own armchair analysis suggested he was about 6 feet too. I can I can see that. Um, let's see. We don't, you know,

1:53:58 Can I mention something about the leather gloves? Yeah. So, when you're taking your

1:54:04 uh No, it Oh, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. No, go ahead. When you're taking off your leather gloves, you take them off sometimes finger by finger, right? So, you get your right hand off. Sometimes you just grab the whole like this whole part and pull. Other times you grab off finger to finger those. If there are fingerprints on the tips of those gloves and he touched things within the house, he could have transferred um a fingerprint onto a hard surface. It is possible.

1:54:34 And and right or even just his DNA. Yeah, definitely DNA. Get rid of the he get rid of the gloves. That doesn't even matter then. It's it's his DNA that that is linked to the touch DNA found in the house. So the clothing material becomes irrelevant. And when you said why would

1:54:49 of him having touched nothing or slim Megan when you said earlier why would he take the body or whatever I I think obviously money was the motive. This is not an instance where you know we were speculating earlier on in this in this extravaganza we've been involved in that u maybe something went horribly wrong when there was an argument or something along those lines. That doesn't appear to be what happened now. the the it seems now this this was a kidnapping or or just a straight up murder where they remove the body. But remember you talked earlier when at the top of the hour where you were saying that you know if a gardener's fingerprints or DNA are in the house that's one thing. If he's in the kitchen or the restroom or something like that, but if it's on her bedding or on her nightstand, you know, that's a totally different deal. That may be why uh the body was removed if they went there

1:55:43 just to kill her. But I I it's still looking more and more like a kidnapping at this point

1:55:50 and somehow I mean but that somehow took over by taken over by someone you know starting with these emails and this Bitcoin thing down the line.

1:56:00 Can we say that like let's talk about that just for one minute now that we know for sure there someone was there. I mean, we knew because the Nest cameras were destroyed that somebody got her, but now there's just no denying. It's it's literally right there on tape. Um, should we spend another minute on just one minute before we say goodbye to the ransom notes um on whether there's a possibility they were real? I mean, maybe they were real. Is it they were real and and they've killed her now because they didn't get their payment and now that's it. Megan, I would argue if they were real and connected to this abductor or quite frankly connect not connected to this abductor that we're seeing the video images of, they would have shown proof of life. We discussed this at length yesterday and I I think you know Friday before we signed off. Uh this is the it's the if not unwritten it's the written written rule of

1:56:53 kidnapping. Everyone realized you got to show this proof of life. And now we don't know what the what the Guthrie family did if they made the payment or not last night. six million or or more or less. So, we don't know, but uh

1:57:04 we don't think so because TMZ has the Bitcoin account numbers and it's reporting today that there's no money in there, that no one has made a deposit in there.

1:57:13 But Megan, what what if you listen to the FBI's um statement that they put out, they said, "We know of no other communication between the kidnapper and the Guthrie family." Jim can speak to this at extensively. I'm sure there are a lot of times where they'll find a side road into the family and and set up a different account and whatever, right, Jim?

1:57:36 Oh, yeah. That happens all the time. Yeah. I mean, in these types of deals, not for-profit kidnappings as we're seeing here, but uh where there's other hidden accounts that people no one else allegedly knows about and money could be deposited there. But, uh yeah, there there's just so many that this does change somewhat. We we knew she was abducted and I always was skeptical whether it was for that it was for profit again revenge or uh or um or something else. If it's for revenge, something against the family, maybe they just didn't want the family seeing the body in the house uh and they wanted, you know, to save the family from that. It almost sounds like that, you know, that there'd be some other set of rules put in there for them. This this is so unusual on so many different levels and unprecedented that um we're all learning here along the way quite frankly and uh the investigators know

1:58:29 more than we do and these videos add a lot to what we needed to have but I think Moren and you and I talked you know about this and and Megan we talked on the air it doesn't surprise me that this is the kind of person that came to the door we didn't rule out someone knows a young girl hey my car broke down can I use your phone we didn't rule that out but it's more likely going to be something like what we see here, secretive in the middle of the night, uh, wellprepared, missionoriented, I use that term a lot, to get in the door, which they eventually did. Why 41 minutes in the door? That is still unclear in the house, I should say. Um, but that will come out at some point probably. And then somehow this woman is carried out to a car parked at least a little at least a little bit down the driveway out of the range of the camera.

1:59:13 Then they had to decide what they're going to do on that on that front. um some uh that a helpful Twitter user who goes by Chillanoi has slowed down the video and where he approaches and you can see that he is coming in from the left. We're going to show it. He's he's coming in from the side of the property right there. You can't quite see it in the video we're showing, but he's coming in from the left around the bend of the left there,

1:59:41 which would be consistent with maybe he does have a car smart enough not to Yeah. Not to park it right in front where the Nest camera could get him. I mean, clearly you guys, you tell me, but clearly he had cased, he had cased the joint prior, right? Like,

1:59:58 no doubt. No doubt. He he knew there was a Nest camera. He knew where to park and where not to park. He knew where the vegetation was. He seems pretty calm. He's not like panicking running around, right? Like

2:00:12 he seems joint. Imagine. How could that be? He's been there. Imagine what you're you're about to do.

2:00:21 He's been there before or someone he knows has been there before and gave him a very distinctive and specific description of the place. I'm convinced of that.

2:00:30 But imagine the mindset of getting breaking into a house, destroying cameras. I mean, when you're prepping yourself for this act and you're walking up to the door, you pull out your you've got your gun right there. for an 84 year old woman. Why do you even need a gun? Unless you're just trying to scare her into opening some safe, open some documents, something along that line, but nothing was missing. And then you're trying to prepare yourself for harming her, which it shows this this offender, whoever he was, had a proclivity and a predisposition toward hurting people because she was bleeding on her way out.

2:01:05 So, there's just no doubt about that. You know, what type of offender ha can do this type of thing? What type of person Jim?

2:01:15 Well, I would argue a psychopath and on the scale of psychopathy somewhere. Uh, and you know, narcissistic has no feelings of empathy. He doesn't care about other people and he just says, you know, this is a mission I'm on. We don't know the purpose of the mission yet, the motivation that is, but uh perhaps, you know, uh prophet uh oriented to some degree. Just get rid of the body. Don't worry about the kidnapping part. and these other people kick in with the uh with the alleged kidnapping uh with the Bitcoin. So, it's uh it's it's so far a mystery wrapped up in a in a riddle. Uh but maybe the enigma part is left now that we see these uh these videos. And this is going to generate a lot of activity on the part of this offender as well as uh people that possibly know him. Again, Tucson, local to Tucson. Did he drive, you know, all day long to get there, then left the scene? These are factors that we're going to have to

2:02:06 determine. They say you don't, you know, you don't want to poop where you eat. I'll be polite here. So, I can't imagine this guy being a nextoor neighbor or even around the block, but uh uh from around the block, but uh but they're going to keep all angles open and all avenues open to find out who this person is and not rule out geography as being a factor. But the more you're traveling, I'll just leave it with this this part. The more you're traveling with a a dis Mrs. Guthrie had to be disabled to some degree. We know she was bleeding.

2:02:37 Yes. Did he wrap her in duct tape to keep her quiet? The farther you're driving with someone in your car, in the in the trunk, in a bag, whatever it is, the more you are opening yourself uh for for risk, for arrest, and and you're also carrying a weapon. I'm not sure exactly the carry uh uh uh laws in in Arizona, uh but you know, if that happens to be seen and you're dressed and what's that uh what's that ski cap doing here? It's a little chilly tonight in uh in Tucson, but really you need that thing. And uh so this guy couldn't have gone too far.

2:03:09 And I've said from day one, Megan, you know, the immediate property or properties around there, that may have been the ultimate goal of this person. Just dispose of Mrs. Gothree there. And I won't get any more graphic than that.

2:03:23 Okay, let let me let me show you guys something. This this could just be a function of the Nest camera not being great. It's not exactly like you're sitting there with a Nikon, but this was from the second batch of pictures Cash released. And I don't know if you can see it very well, but it's him just getting there and coming through. Or I I shouldn't say just getting there. I don't know. But he's he's at the arch. He's not all the way onto the patio in this shot. And for some reason, there are no eye holes. There's no mouth hole.

2:03:54 There's no gun. There's no backpack. There's nothing. Oh, that's just pixelated.

2:04:01 This is sort of odd. Well, the the the the backpack, the only reason you see the backpack when we get closer is the reflection or the refraction of the light onto those um those illuminating strips that we talked about earlier. The straps. Yeah.

2:04:16 But they're pretty pronounced. The the straps are pretty darn pronounced. I mean, they're tough to miss.

2:04:22 Even that one shot from from the one shot. No, something something's going on here because the the picture I just showed you from Chillanoi, u the gal who slowed down the entry and I said he was coming from the back like left around the left bend there. You can see the backpack has such reflective uh tape on it on it, the the straps horizontal reflective tape that they look like lights. I mean, I'm not totally convinced they're not lights to be honest with you, but they're extremely reflective or they're lights on the front of the backpack. And you can see on Chillanoi's little freeze frame of the video the black stripe down the middle and the double white stripe on either side of it. And you can see the weapon wagging from his belt. And you can see the eye holes in the mask.

2:05:10 So, it is odd. It's actually kind of eerie. It's It's creepy. What? I don't even know what this picture is from Cash Patel, but is it possible he's releasing and maybe we will get a press conference at some point. Is it possible he's releasing casing photos? Right? like it is possible this guy did show up with maybe the the mask turned around so you could not see his face at all and he didn't yet have his gun and he wasn't wearing his backpack to get a look at what he was about to walk into to get a look at the nest cam. I mean this is possibly him doing a little recon works

2:05:50 if we can go back to that picture. Uh, it's a little confusing on the so away from his body upper left. I'm not sure exactly where the street or the road comes in, but boy, from the configuration here, it almost looks like the two headlights of a car with a little part of the tail light uh behind it. And I'm not saying that's his car with the lights on, but but a car I've been driving by, but there are other pictures I see brighter lights back there, too. That could be from a house. So, I would want to see that, of course, blown up. It doesn't mean that car is involved in anything. Just very coincidental a car happen to go by. But this also could have been, as you just said, Megan, some kind of a casing. Uh if these aren't timestamped, these these particular pictures uh of of some other time that this person came to the house, a dry run, so to speak, how close he could get. But I I just can't tell the

2:06:39 backpack's on or not, and different configuration of the mask, whatever. But to come in that time of night, come twice would really increase your risk level. And especially if you're if they think they're captured on this video and then you come back a whole other night of course it could have just been an hour before and then that's what the guy then geared up afterwards back to the car put all the gear on the gun then came to the house said all right it's go time

2:07:04 or could that have been house I mean yeah could that two two thoughts first I can't tell where this person is in that in that image where you can't see the straps I can't tell if he's within the archway or outside on the on the walkway if he is um outside on the walkway when you can see the lights. It that was February 1st. It was one of the biggest full moons of the year and it was like daylight out almost that night. Um number two, well now I forgot the second.

2:07:34 Could he have been with somebody else? Could could it have been someone else or do I don't like I don't know whether it was him or somebody else possibly getting on here because that picture doesn't have flashlight in the mouth. It doesn't have flashlights or reflective tags up here on the top backpack. It doesn't have a backpack at all. It doesn't have a weapon. It's like, I don't know what that is. And frankly, we're not going to be able to figure it out because Cash hasn't given us here is what this is. Here is what that is. Here is what the He's just trying to help us identify. He's trying to get us to help him identify this dude. And what about the backpack? Cuz I have to say it is pretty darn distinctive. It's not your run-of-the-mill backpack. So, back to the whole purpose of releasing this stuff. I mean, there is it's it's possible that somebody's sitting there with a husband or a brother or a cousin

2:08:24 or, you know, whatever who's got this backpack in the corner. They don't always throw everything away, right? I mean, Moren, you've investigated so many of these crimes like the drug dealers, whatever. They don't always just dump it all in the in the in the dumpster. Sometimes they'll keep Looks like an expensive backpack, for example.

2:08:40 Oh, yeah. If they're cheap skates, trust me, people getting popped because they're cheap skates is a real thing. And that you're you're right, that backpack is distinctive because the straps are a contrasting color, it appears to the actual backpack, which isn't, you know, unless the straps uh they're very they seem very thin at the bottom and and a contrasting color, but it's hard to tell color in a black and white photo in the middle of the night, you know. Mhm.

2:09:12 People online are debating whether this was not a flashlight in the mouth, but um like a grill, like a gold tooth.

2:09:22 I was thinking that was the first thing when you said that the teeth flashed. I thought it of of gold teeth.

2:09:27 No, but if you look at the one image though, the light beam goes down on the pavement in front of

2:09:32 I don't think that's the one. Yes, that's right. There it is. You can see it light up.

2:09:36 Wouldn't do that. No. No. And Megan, real quick, can I go back here? Listen to this. Yeah, you go, Jim.

2:09:41 Just real quick, our discussion of yesterday of when President Trump was on Air Force One making an announcement that there may be a solution. I believe we determined that was Friday. I think we can timestamp ourselves. That's when he was told we have video of this guy. And then and the FBI has worked with this this whole time, which is fine. They no obligation uh you know on Friday to release it to the public, but I think that's probably what he was talking about. and he was careful not to subsect but he said solution. So just it's important for this discussion that to know that the FBI we can say Thursday night Friday that's when they got these uh these videos out of this camera cash told uh President Trump and that's when he said something on Air Force One also perhaps to uh uh you know and the suspect could have in fact made some moves then as we discussed uh after the fact. So uh but that's probably how long

2:10:31 they've had these videos to try to do everything they could. It does make you wonder why they went back to the sister's home on Saturday night for 3 hours taking pictures in the dark. Like it does like why why would you go back there? Why are you taking pictures in the dark for three hours? You could have gone during the day. The media is there day and night. So you're not avoiding them.

2:10:51 What I mean they did it with consent. The family pointed that out. They gave their consent for it,

2:10:56 which is a problem to me. I would I'm not comfortable with a consent warrant just because it's so easy to challenge anything you find. It's so much better to have a judicial warrant. But I I understand exactly.

2:11:06 So maybe maybe that's a point in his figure, Moren. In his favor, maybe that's a point in his favor that like the cops, they're not worried about a warrant because it's not that kind of search

2:11:17 that you want to finish your statement. I was just going to say that, you know, when you're doing a search in the dark, you're you're usually using luminol or something and you it is dark and you do have to photograph it while it's luminescing. You know, that's you have put up scales and you and you take your photographs and that's that's your evidence that you take out of there. It's actually just photographs. However, you usually have a tripod so that you can make sure that it's perfectly still because you need to see what the blood pattern looked like, directionality of the uh blood stains, etc. So, I didn't see anyone go in with the tripod, but I guess somebody may have I I secreted it.

2:12:00 I don't know. Maybe they don't use a tripod there. I'm not really sure. So, it's still

2:12:07 Would they have been in in like hazmat suits or anything like that, Moren? they were doing lumininal, would they have looked different?

2:12:13 Not always. Um, it didn't really look like a CSI team to me at all. And carrying in such a small amount of gear made me question that. But something you could easily do without much gear at all would be um oblique lighting if you're looking for just that vegetation or something that they something else that they know nothing about that they have information on. But as far as looking for blood pattern, blood blood, you'd think they'd have more gear, but I could I guess I could be wrong.

2:12:44 I mean, just the fact that they didn't turn on the lights is just so Well, looking for the blood like that, you're going to it's going to be in the dark. It's got to be in the dark.

2:12:53 I'm going to go to you in one second, Jim, but this just in uh from NBC. The Guthrie family was notified about the images shared by the FBI, but there is nothing the family or law enforcement or so far anyone recognizes in terms of who this person might be. Because there was no recognition, the FBI chose to post the images and videos publicly in the hopes that someone may recognize this individual or the clothing or the items that are seen, which could lead to a break in the case. That's interesting. So, they had already shown it to the family.

2:13:24 Makes sense. and they did not recognize anything about them. I mean, which is just so that's even more eerie. I just can't get over the fact of like I mean, it's truly I don't know what every guy's worst nightmare is, but it's every woman's worst nightmare to have that guy at the foot of her bed with a weapon. Like, I think we've all had that fear. So, we've gone to sleep, especially the husband's away or, you know, your parents are away when you're a young, you know, co-ed in college and you're home for a visit. It's just that's what the nightmare is. And the nightmare showed up to Nancy Guthri's home. This vulnerable 84 year old woman who's, you know, her husband wasn't there to protect her. He had died 40 years earlier. She was a widow. She had to raise these three kids on her own. You know, her daughter goes on to become this famous successful anchor. She's done it. She's got three kids launched

2:14:15 who seem happy. And the son's a fighter pilot. The other daughter is a poet and seems, I guess, happily married. And this is how it's going to end. You know, this is this is going to be the final chapter of your life. This derelch madman in your bedroom with a gun and a backpack telling you to get up who's apparently ready to beat you into submission because there's only one way Nancy Guthrie began to bleed.

2:14:40 Megan, you have so dark and it's so infuriating. You have no idea how people in law enforcement just dream in response to that nightmare. dream that we aren't we just didn't happen to be standing right there where we could just you know defend her.

2:14:56 Yes. You're being polite when you say I'll bet you got that gun for a reason. I am a couple things here. Uh Megan, it's interesting that uh just finally showing some more videos. The mask reminds me of the Zodiac Killer's mask. No, this is not the Zodiac Killer doing this, but someone who may have emulated that type of mask. Of course, they've been used before in other types of crimes, but you know, there's other versions of that. Uh it's not really your even your classic ski mask the way it's set up. It's almost a mask specifically for committing violent crimes of some sort. The other thing is, and you mentioned about Annie Search the other night, could that have been a misdirection on the part of the FBI? As a profiler, I would work with our agents and and other law enforcement all the time. when you have a suspect or multiple suspects and you want them to think one thing that maybe they're in

2:15:45 the clear. So then you go and do some other search, you do something very obvious and I won't say you have to include the Guthrie family in on this, but just say, "Hey, for our purposes, we want to come here one more time." They may have already showed them the photographs at this point in time. They said nothing here. So it's a long shot, but I'll tell you, if I was a profiler working this case with them, and I said, "There's someone out there who may be destroying evidence. Let's show him. we're still looking in some other directions. Let's show them that we're still considering this, you know, this uh this extortion amount from uh wherever it's coming from and make make him a little bit more relaxed and hopefully it helps Mrs. Guthrie if she's still alive, too. Just uh just throwing that out there as a possibility.

2:16:27 What about the possibility of murder for hire? You know, is that possible? like this guy, casual, doesn't seem particularly worked up about the fact that he's about to at a minimum scare the hell out of a nice old lady. Um, he knows what he has to do. He's got his backpack to get her out of the house. I mean, that, you know, you guys were saying like the kidnaps for ransom, they don't really happen. They they happen in Mexico, but they don't really happen here. Does murder for hire of an 84 year old happen here? It's in and that if that's the case, it's an elimination uh murder. Someone that's in the way of something you want or something that you're you feel entitled to.

2:17:09 And who benefits from that? So, we have to go back to that. Uh that would probably be someone else.

2:17:14 Okay. But let me ask you that that Okay, now that's a good point. And I I began the show talking about some of this, Jim. They I my questions were you'd want to know if she had a life insurance policy and who gets paid what from it. You'd want to know if she has a will and who gets paid what from it. I don't I don't know how much money Nancy Guthrie has. Frankly, her house is worth a million dollars. Um you'd want to know who who gets the house uh when she dies. I I imagine her mortgage is paid just because she's been in it since 1992, I think they said. Um and I'm sure it wasn't a million dollars when she bought it. you know, it's that's what it's worth today.

2:17:50 Yep. But, you know, a few 84 year olds born in that generation keep a mortgage if they don't absolutely have to. But, in any event, you you'd ask who she was a burden to, right? Like, how much did Annie and Tomaso have to do to help the mother-in-law? That would obviously be a potential motive as you're looking at everybody. Um, but they know all this by now. Like, the police know who stood to benefit financially, if anybody. um what the life insurance policy was, you know, who who were the beneficiaries of that. They they almost almost certainly have also looked at the phone records by now.

2:18:23 Right now, we're 10 days later. Don't you think they've gotten the phone records back from the the family members who live down the road and anybody else who they might know is in the sphere, like the people who come into the house every day. They probably checked all that, maybe the car records. They probably know if if any of those people has has money problems, too.

2:18:42 Absolutely. who's in debt, right? Like, don't you think 10 days in they'd know a lot of that stuff, Moren?

2:18:47 Exactly. And to your point, when you when you're looking at who who who gains or or who's going to win in a situation like this, the the inverse of that is who's in a state of desperation that would really need the money, you know, and that could be anyone that gamles a lot or, you know, has huge debt because of their Only Fans obsession or who knows what. people people are into all kinds of crazy stuff. Maybe someone bets on football and loses big thousands and thousands of dollars and they just can't pay it. I mean, even if you're if you're not in that inner circle, but you're on the second circle or or you know, you might when you need money fast, your your mind goes to strange places.

2:19:32 Well, and the other thing is they they they will have seen Jim, you mentioned this earlier this week, they will have seen again I'm I'm like ruling people out like the f not we can't rule anybody out because we don't know anything but like with the immediate family for example, you are saying they're going to know what that person searched for on their phone. You know, like how to get rid of a body, that that kind of thing. Like the the the FBI by this point knows that. You think you may be able to delete a phone, but you may not. Here's Chad Ays, by the way. Chad's joining us.

2:20:04 Uh, he's former SWAT leader in Greenville, South Carolina. Chad, thank you for coming back on. I'm gonna get to you in one second, but just wanted to say hi. Um, they're going to know all that. And so clearly I think can't we deduce Jim that as as far as like immediate family they've probably can we deduce that they've ruled them out because they've probably seen the phones they've probably seen the search history. They've um they've probably seen the financial incentives if any and they are not making arrests. They're looking at all of us saying who the hell is this in the mask?

2:20:38 I'll tell you, I learned as a rookie police officer, certainly detective in Ben Salem Township, working a few homicide cases, free internet, free cell phones, uh you learn so much about uh a victim and his or her extended family in doing your investigations. You can still get phone records and all back then, of course, most all landline. Uh but there is so much to learn and you have to sit down with them and say, "Tell me the truth, sir." Were you having an affair with anyone? Or Mrs. So and so, were you having affair? I'm not putting this on on Nancy Guthrie, but there may have been some things in the closet of the Guthrie family they didn't necessarily like talking about, but uh they had to bring up and and Moren threw them all out there. You know, gambling, Only Fans, porn, you know, whatever it may be, where it could have been something, you know, a lot less uh, you know, obvious that. But they're going to have

2:21:29 to say, "Please tell us the truth." To the investigators say, "Please tell us the truth. We're not out to harass you for this stuff, but we have to be able to limit who are the suspects in this case. So, you do learn an awful lot about someone when you get, you know, when you're privy to their all their phone records, financial records, and of course their admissions, uh, because you're not supposed to lie to the FBI because that's a charge right there, uh, uh, that you could be arrested for. So, uh, they know everything, Megan, to to summarize here about this family, I would think, at this point, and no one's put had handcuffs put on them yet.

2:22:02 That's a clue that at this time at least it's outside of the direct family and who knows, you know, the third level, fourth level, friends of friends where that part comes in. But no handcuffs yet.

2:22:13 They're not prime suspects at this point. Megan, quickly before we move on, right now.

2:22:19 Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Mia. A lot of times when these people are doing their searches, everyone knows now that your phone is, you know, has all this information. They're going to local libraries. they're using other people's f um um devices like someone may have um uh you you don't know who's whose devices they're using essentially is what I'm going to say. I'm not going to say much more than that, but

2:22:43 yeah, I was just listening to a datine, which is a, you know, pastime, um, NBC, of course, where they were talking about there was a guy who had his wife killed and his alibi was he was at a poker game the night that she was attacked and they checked his phone to see if he had called anybody and he hadn't. But then as the news tightened around the husband, one of the people who was at the poker game, who was hosting the poker game, remembered the wife of one of the guys said, "He asked me if he could borrow my phone." And they looked at her history and it was clean. He hadn't called anybody, which they found suspicious. Not that didn't exonerate him. To the contrary, they knew he had borrowed her phone and now they knew he had cleared her history. And um you may be able to delete it from the from like the phone, the actual phone, but you can't delete it from the phone record.

2:23:33 No. And they this guy was clever enough to use somebody else's phone to do his dirty work. So yeah, you're right that some people find an end around. Jim, I know you've got to go. Fitz, we'll see you again, I'm sure, very soon. Thank you for coming on so quickly. Chad, we haven't heard your take on the in stunning tapes and pictures that Cash Patel just released. Your thoughts? Yeah, Megan, here I was doing a webinar for my company and my phone's blowing up and I slid off for a second and looked. I said, "Oh my god." Um, things that I would like to see and I'm sure and I know the bureau is already doing with their unit is obviously enhancing some of these photos. Uh, that holster that he has on with that handgun at the front, that's a very unique looking holster as well as, you know, the the backpack. So, if they can start in, you know, as they go and start enhancing some of these images, uh maybe it's

2:24:26 someone because now obviously, you know, gun stores around there, hey, listen, we sell this type of holster. Uh we sell this type of backpack. Plenty of people have been caught. Um you you mentioned Dline. How many times do they go back and pull surveillance footage from a, you know, Ace Hardware, Home Depot where the guy was buying bags of lime, a shovel, and rope? Um so, again, I think that it is quite alarming. I know pictures um several questions have come up about the flowers or the weeds that he pulled. Part of me wonders if if he was trying just to cover up the camera so there was not a disconnect.

2:25:01 Um that's what we think too. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. And then I agree. I think that he probably put a flashlight in his mouth to to look at that. And I apologize if this is some of the stuff y'all already discussed, but

2:25:11 No, it's fine. But obviously, you know, looking at the sneakers, enhance those sneakers. Listen, somebody knows this person. somebody knows who they are and whether or not they say, "Oh my god, that's Uncle Bill. He wears he wore that backpack, you know, when we went hiking a few weeks ago or or whatever." Um, and the the jacket, all these things are going to be clues and and the bureau and and there's so many resources out here now, Megan, that they can find out the manufacturer who in that who in that area carries this brand of jacket, who sells this brand of backpack. Um, and again, same thing with looking at cell phone data and and search history, you know, did he did did anyone uh in the family buy a backpack recently, anything like that,

2:25:54 but they gave it. It's almost just enough just to like frustrate us even more. Yeah. But thank God we have these images. So, it's all I can think is the most important thing that happened in Nancy Guthri's life prior to what happened last Sunday was the moment we we read her comment in 2021 online saying, "I really want to buy a Nest or a Ring camera to help me watch for wildlife. Can anybody recommend one?" Thank God she did. Thank God she did that because honestly, this is the best thing. This may be just about the only thing we have to go on now. It's the first promising lead, at least that we know of. Um, and it's they've got him redhanded. I mean, they have got the guy red-handed. And don't you feel I mean, Chad, what do you think? I feel like now it's only a matter of time until they catch him. The FBI is so good that this case has gotten so much exposure.

2:26:52 Savannah's notoriety as a public figure is a blessing right now, at least because everybody's interested in this case. The picture is going to be everywhere. And you're right, if it's a wife, for sure the wife is going to know the build, the eyes, the mustache, the jacket, the sneakers, and the gate.

2:27:12 Then you can go out and the backpack and and the gun. And Marie, does it look like It almost looks like a revolver to me.

2:27:19 No, I think it's a um I think it's a a semi-automatic and it's in one of those that it's in one of those soft side Oh, I see where it is. carry, but it's on the outside of his pants with that I don't know what that black strap is, but my husband has that same holster. Um, and it's it's a longer barreled weapon than like a compact.

2:27:39 Okay. Cuz I was going to say what it's kind of an amateur move to use a semi-automatic, you know, because you risk forgetting to pick up a shell casing if there was some type of firearm used. I I would assume that you if you are a professional, you would use a revolver so there's no shells being dropped or anything like that.

2:27:57 Oh. Oh, I I just learned something about how to commit crime that I didn't know before. That's

2:28:02 Hopefully, we don't teach anybody else. Megan. Yeah. I don't I don't Well, I think she lived in such an isolated area that she the the person I don't know that anybody would have heard a gunshot had one got off. And before you got here, Chad, we speculated about how thick that backpack is and and how much was stuffed in there. Could he have possibly put a tarp in there? You know, might he have done the worst while in the house

2:28:25 and maybe that the blood was dripping from, you know, a murder victim uh as he got her out of there. We don't we don't know. But look, everybody looking at those blood drops has just

2:28:36 armchair concluded. It looks like it was not a lot of bleeding and it looked like it may have just dropped straight down. Like the there's not a smear. There doesn't seem to be a projectile on the way the drops like are are on the ground. So, we're assuming some sort of facial wound or something maybe to get her under control as opposed to a body dripping with blood having been shot. Right.

2:28:58 But clearly he was ready for the worst. Well, they were able to back in correct into this nest. They used an outside party to to kind of back in to get these images. Are we waiting on additional images from the other camera at the back door that we we do know that that that they had back there as well?

2:29:15 I wanted to get this in. The White House has issued a statement. It reads as follows. The president encourages any American across the country with any knowledge of this suspect to please call the FBI who continue to assist state and local authorities. The prayers of the entire White House are with the Guthrie family. I mean, that's yet another reason why it's only a matter of time. You've got everybody from the FBI director to the president of the United States. I mean, NBC is going to blanket this guy's pictures. And, you know, that's their their nightly news at least still has a decent size audience. I'm sure their Today Show audience is inflated this week for obvious reasons, but everybody, all the podcast, like this is not your average case. I can't remember a case with this much notoriety in recent history where we were all working together to find a perp. This guy's got a noose around his neck.

2:30:02 Moren, it's just a matter of time before we tighten it. I love it. And he's backed into a corner and he's stressed beyond belief and he's freaking the hell out and good. I'm glad. I hope he suffers.

2:30:16 Same. Don't you think, Chad? Like this guy right now, there is this man. This man exists. This man has committed a terrible crime. The exact nature of it we have yet to determine, but this guy knows this is happening just as the three of us do. And somewhere he's having an holy effing s moment thinking, what do I do now?

2:30:35 I bet he's really regret having that crusty ass mustache and thing under his lip that was shown because that's going to be a talltail sign to give him away. Not too many people I know have those types of mustaches. And you know, someone's going to be looking at sitting at the dinner table tonight looking across being like,

2:30:51 "hm, might be time to call 1800 FBI." Could you explain that to me? What are you What are you I see I can see he's got facial hair, but what exactly are you referring to?

2:31:01 So, there's another image where you see kind of I don't even know what it's what's it called? The little small mustache kind of or the little It's

2:31:07 not exactly a goatee, right? What is a patch? What do you call it, Steve? It's some sort of a patch.

2:31:14 I don't want to use the term that was used in a soul patch. That's what we call it. Okay. My team is a lot hipper than we are. Uh soul patch. S O U L.

2:31:23 Right. So, I mean, we'll try to get the picture up while you're talking, but you can see it. You can see that there's hair like that little round circle for the mouth in the ski mask does reveal hair above and below.

2:31:35 Yeah. Um, not I basically had to take the video and I had to pause it the the video about if you pause it about the two second mark and zoom in,

2:31:45 you can see it. Yep. Right there. Oh, this one. Yeah. Kind of looks like more of the little patch.

2:31:52 That's That's a good catch. Yeah. Yeah. Which means he has facial hair above and below. But I will say, not to bring it back to the brother-in-law, but he's got a beard and a mustache. And if you have just a beard, it can go all the way up there. Like, I don't know. We're only seeing a patch, but it doesn't mean it's it is only a patch. Like, it could be full facial hair to the left and the right that cuz the the mouth is just a circle just cutting out just like you just see the bottom of the the circle. What could be there? Again, I'm not blaming the brother-in-law. I'm just saying because he's been mentioned so many times. who are obviously looking at his facial hair,

2:32:34 right? Um, so now what what like if if I think back with Tyler Robinson, uh, who's accused of killing Charlie Kirk,

2:32:43 it didn't take long. He felt the heat. He saw that picture everywhere. Now, in his case that they also had his gun, which was very distinctive, but he panicked and he confessed. His parents saw the sneakers. You mentioned the sneakers. They recognized those. They recognized he had the hat, his build. I mean, clearly you know your child's build. And this guy may have a mother out there who recognizes his build, too, even if he's not married. And they contacted him to say, the dad said, "Send us a picture of your gun." Cuz the dad was really suspicious.

2:33:17 And he wound up confessing to his to a his his family. And then they brought in a family friend who brought him into the cops. So, how do you see this going, Chad? probably about four different ways I would say. I think Marine would agree. You're either going to have this thing turn into a cold case. Worst case scenario, we don't want to happen. Two, he comes forward and says the gig's up. Maybe I'll get a lesser sentence depending on what he's done with Nancy, whether she's alive or deceased. Uh, you know, I I am getting charged, but maybe I I won't see the death penalty if I come in and confess. someone's going to recognize him and call in and report him. Or the last case scenario, um well, I guess there's two more in a sense. Um well, I guess the last case scenario is he self- terminate self-terminates himself.

2:34:11 Lives himself, which I hope doesn't happen. Yes. No. Don't be a coward. We're never going to know.

2:34:17 No. Do you want to hear what I hope happens? Then we're never going to know. Best case scenario.

2:34:21 Yeah. He starts acting crazy. Everyone calls the police. Seven people he knows calls the police. Three departments arrive, all with police dogs. They unleash the dogs who rip him to shreds on film, and we can all watch it over and over.

2:34:39 Yeah. Yes. Yes. You want to see him suffer, but not without finding Nancy first. I mean, like, there is still a scenario. You look at Savannah's statement today, just immediately, you know, after the pictures came out. We believe she's still alive. like we we are cynical law enforcement and news people who don't have a direct relation to the victim. So, I think it's a lot easier for us to be like the odds are she's no longer alive. You know, we've covered enough of these stories or been involved in solving these cases that that's where we went. And Savannah, if she weren't so close to it, would probably be where we are. But she has all cause to keep hope alive. And we are not we we don't know.

2:35:22 We could be wrong. Nancy Guthrie could be alive. And this could be the guy who has her. He We don't know why. We don't know why there wasn't a ransom. If assuming he wasn't connected to the Bitcoin scam, why there wasn't a ransom. Why there's been no demands. There's been nothing whatsoever. It hasn't even been like from a psycho. I feel like from a psycho, we would have gotten Savannah marry me or like I'm going to get somebody else next unless I get Savannah to do the following things. Like the psycho can't really hold it together for 10 days, stay underground, make no demands, you know, I don't that that's just feeling less likely to me.

2:36:01 Um, murder for hire care for her. That that could be good because somebody's going to talk. Murder murder for hire rec requires a conspiracy with multiple people and someone could panic right about now given how the heat just got turned up and talk. What What were you saying, Moren?

2:36:20 I was just saying that is this the type of person that's going to feed and care for an elderly person who's wounded. I mean,

2:36:29 yeah, those two don't seem to coexist to me, but I I I understand her believing in miracles. I would be I would be on my knees storming the heavens praying for a miracle in a in a situation like this. And I've prayed a lot for S Savannah's mom.

2:36:49 Yeah. Same. We we talked earlier this week with Jim about the kidnapping of the Exxon um president. He was president of the company. I actually learned more about that yesterday. It was 1992. And the guy was like a real regular Joe. He didn't want a guard. He didn't want to like live his life under, you know, security threat all the time having a guard drive him and his wife out to dinner. So, he said no to that. He drove himself around in a station wagon and um was pretty well known and they they the two kidnappers, one was former law enforcement and his wife. They moved his newspaper down closer to the road that morning because he would come out of his house himself and grab his newspaper and they moved it closer to the bottom of his driveway so that they could get him more easily. And they grabbed him one morning and he did fight and they shot him in the arm and they got him into their

2:37:47 getaway vehicle and they put him in a box like a it sounded like a casket almost like a a small box shot injured and then put the box in storage and I guess it got to like 120 degrees. It was a very hot time of year and he died within 4 days. Um, but they didn't tell the family that. They kept the ruse going for some 54 days and it was an $18 million demand and Exxon was going to pay it. Like they they wanted their executive back and but they were they had no trouble with pro proof of life, you know, and there was a negotiation like they there wasn't radio silence like this. They did know that their charge had died, but they were playing the ruse to the end. Here there's been none of that, you know, none of that.

2:38:37 like Clay, it's like radio silence other than the weird Bitcoin thing that that offered absolutely no proof of life. And so what's the endgame of this endgame of this person? It it it keeps leading me back to this is about ending Nancy Guthrie. It's not about getting a ransom payment.

2:38:58 I hope I and the way he's it's just very amateurish. just does not look like a trained professional type of assassin. You I mean I Who carries their their pistol like that? Um just Yeah. I mean it's just very just kind of thrown together um on that.

2:39:20 That's interesting. Wait, Chad, so you're you're saying that like that the way he has that pistol suggests to you this is

2:39:26 Oh, one I mean unless he's just so professional he's just trying to throw everyone off to make it look that way. But no, I nobody straps a holster, you know, to them like that. Now, granted, now if you're carrying concealed, I I carry personally concealed, you know, in my appendix area, but I wouldn't carry an open carry firearm like that, hook my holster to the front. That's just not a way someone carries. That's not a standard practice to carry a a a firearm at all. Mhm. Clearly the guy was not worried about the neighbor seeing him.

2:40:01 Moren with a ski mask on and his gun visible to all with his gloves in the middle of a Tucson evening. Like he he knew that these are acre lock acre, you know, size properties and at 2:30 in the morning or 1:47, the odds were against people seeing him. But it's still pretty risky.

2:40:22 I don't think it's that risky. No. No. It's pitch blackout. They have no street lights. They have they they don't even they even discourage people from turning their porch lights on because they all want to see the stars. It's it's pitch black. There's plenty of room. I do think you'd be if if you fired around, someone would hear it though. I I even though you have an acre. Um because I've, you know, I've been to a place in Wisconsin a lot. have spent a lot of time there and you can hear when someone's firing a weapon within a couple of, you know, within an acre or two easily. But if you have a fan on in your room while you're sleeping, you won't hear anything.

2:41:02 Mhm. There's been no reports of that whatsoever. Nothing about a possible possible shooting or hearing sounds of that. There was there were reports of increased coyote activity, but it was after the night that Nancy died. It was not Sorry, she didn't die. It disappeared. Um, it wasn't that night. It was like several nights later. So, I mean, it could potentially be related, but I don't know if you've ever had coyotes around your house. They they it sounds god awful when they're mating. It really sounds like some sort of a mass murder is happening outside your door.

2:41:40 Could wake up the whole neighborhood. Doesn't mean anything's happening to a human. What were you going to say, Chad?

2:41:44 But it still takes us back, Megan, to did he act alone? Where's the vehicle? Did he was she conscious and and and just, you know, bleeding and he walked her through the back of the house, through the front of the house? You know, it's all crazy to me that there are no type of license plate cameras close by that we I know we have that information from a 7-Eleven or a Circle K gas station, but where was the car?

2:42:17 I mean, how do you I'm telling you, like I I consider myself a somewhat of a fed individual, but let's just take an 84 year old woman. Let's just say she was 100 pounds and you one person carrying someone like that that is severely injured or deceased is hard as hell. I don't that it's very hard unless and and again we would have a different time

2:42:43 150 pounds. I mean to find me someone that's going to comfortably carry we know we don't believe she was well I would say pretty definitively by the blood spatter we see on the front porch that is not a drag blood spatter. Like I said, those are those are

2:42:57 dead by then. No, when that when that pacemaker disconnected from the phone, she was alive or they would have told us that. They would know if she had died thanks to the pacemaker. So, I really do believe she was taken out of that house alive. What's your What's your theory, Moren?

2:43:13 Well, my theory on the car is this. when when when we you've got certain whenever you're looking for someone or you're um you're trying to figure out what cars were in the area, you're um you're looking at the ch at the choke points or the access and egress routes. And so they looked at all those. They looked they checked everything. They did they geoenced the whole area, all that stuff. Well, that that means what? It's it's there's the there's an absence of something normal here or the absence of normaly. And what I mean by that is the car probably never made it out onto any of those major roads. Maybe it just took side streets to wherever it was going.

2:43:49 Yes. And it parked there for a day or two or someone with local knowledge. Yeah.

2:43:55 So it was probably probably a local or somebody very familiar with the local roads. I mean it could have been a Coberger situation where he'd been casing the joint for a while. He knew the roads to take and which ones not to take. I mean, if you I've been watching some of the local coverage, local news coverage out there of this case, just is always interesting to see what the locals have to say. And um, by the way, they did say that there was no proof of life in the second ransom note. Harvey Levvin was on uh something last night saying maybe there was proof of life in there. There wasn't. the the the local news outlet that received the second note reported its sister outlet reported Arizona family there is no proof of life whatsoever in the second note whatever you it's not a ransom note u but they had they showed in the local coverage the number of license plate readers I guess and just cameras all over their

2:44:45 traffic lights on the main highways there's only I think two of them and they're just they're covered in cameras so there's just zero chance you wouldn't have been seen they they would go between 2:30, 2:28 in the morning and probably 3:28 in the morning and try to get license plates off of all those cars. They they would have done that last Monday,

2:45:02 but some of those potential some of those cameras are ticket cameras, not um and they only snap a photo when someone is speeding through the intersection. So, some of them wouldn't wouldn't do it, but yes, there are there are cameras on a number of those at a number of those intersections. So, if you were clever enough, you were local, then you took side roads and maybe they didn't have they didn't have any cameras. That's why they're asking for, for example, people who have Teslas to check is I guess your Tesla will turn on and start filming if somebody goes buy it, which is awesome. Um, and that's definitely the car that we're going to get our children now that I know that.

2:45:44 Uh, so they're asking Tesla owners or anybody who's got a Nest Cam or a Ring Cam that might have cuz like you can go down the side roads, but the downside of the side roads is now you're looking at Nest Cams and Ring Cams and we're back to that Super Bowl ad that can even catch your lost dog. No. Why are you shaking your head?

2:46:00 Because it's too dark and the houses are are are set back and when it's that pitch black, as it is often in Wisconsin, you can't see that far at all. I mean, and there's foliage in front and there's all those big um cacti in front of these houses with large shrubs. You uh and they're raised up slightly from the road uh from you know, they had one of the one of the uh one of the journalists drove by at night from one from NY's house to Annie's house and you couldn't see anything. Yeah, I think I saw that on CNN.

2:46:39 Well, here's here's a perfect example of those Ring doorbells, guys. Um, and I'm Saturday night, I'm sorry, Friday night into Saturday morning at 2:30 in the morning. My dad's car truck was stolen from his driveway. Um, he calls me um he's come to pick me up actually Saturday morning to take me to the pick up our car from the shop. He says, "My car is gone." And I said, "Well, was it unlocked?" "Yeah, I left it unlocked." Were the keys in it? "Yeah, I left the keys in it." I'm like, "Well, you're a dumbass." But second of all, he goes, "My Ring doorbell did not pick up anything. I have a Ring doorbell that is that is right there on the side." So that basically they have a, you know, a double garage and they got a door that goes in the middle and there's a doorbell right there right where it was parked. The only thing that picked it up, they also have external cameras that are aren't ringing that are hardwired

2:47:27 that, you know, you can watch. And so we went upstairs. I rewound it. And sure enough, at 1:50 in the morning, see two guys approach from the wood line down. They jiggle the handle of my mother's uh one of her spare cars that's outside. They can't get it. They go to my dad's truck, jump in, they're gone. Ring did not pick it up, but the other cameras did. So again, the sensitivity on these things are really dependent.

2:47:53 Wow. here. My um team made a an aerial for us of NY's house which could help us understand where the car potentially was. I don't know if you guys can see this for the listening audience. It shows NY's looks like a ranch home. You guys have seen it on the news and picture a rectangle with a white roof

2:48:10 and it's got a semicircle drive in front of it uh coming from the road and you can see the arched doorway which is just so ominous to look at it right now knowing that terrible man walked underneath that archway and right into that front door we believe or at least tried uh and maybe got in the back door. You can see there's like a little gravel walkway that takes you to the archway into the home. And then if you were to come out and keep going around the semicircle, you would you could either complete the semicircle to leave or the semicircle where it begins on the right also goes straight back. Um and so there's more parking. And that's I think the garage.

2:48:56 Well, I think that's the garage over on the back right. It's not It's not a separate unit, but that's that's probably the pool house back there. I'm not sure exactly what separate structure is.

2:49:04 You're right. Yeah. Okay. And so the car could have been like even in the aerial that I'm showing on the screen, there is a uh silver dark gray car over on the right that definitely would not have been caught by a ring camera that's underneath that archway and back. You know, like there's a number of places you can park here where you would not be caught by that ring camera. Although I will say I'm not sure about that roof camera, you know, that they pulled off on Friday night. That one, depending on where it was pointed, that could have gotten a car. Um,

2:49:36 well, that was pointed at least any images of that. That was pointed down into the backyard.

2:49:42 It didn't really look Yeah. ripe for the for that. But yeah, the the car easily could have been on this semic-ircular driveway, not caught by the Ring camera. And therefore, we can't really say, oh, he had to have help. Like, he could have done this by himself. He could have pulled up. He could have parked off to the side. He could have sauntered in from here would be the right on the camera would be the left and maybe couldn't get in. You know, like if that's that's one of the questions we have still sitting here. What happened?

2:50:07 We didn't see him actually disconnect the nest c the neck nest camera. We didn't see him succeed in the job he was trying to do, but the video magically stops. So, like they're not showing us they're not showing us a picture where he gave up and walked off and then came around the back where they they should have more images, shouldn't they?

2:50:28 They should have more if he if he used the back door, they should have more images of him from back there.

2:50:32 Right. Megan, can we ask Chad about the um burglar door on the front of the house and and how he would how he would approach that or how he could breach that door be and how hard it is essentially or are we done with that? No, no. Let's We're not done with anything.

2:50:48 It's funny because Yeah, I did. So, actually, uh I was talking to one of our homicide investigators who reached out to me after, you know, seeing me. I think it was Thursday, um after, you know, Megan posted the show, and she said, "What's your thoughts on that door?" And I said, "Well, that that storm door looks to be pretty solid. We see iron or or metal bars on the inside." as a SWAT operator when we see these, you know, obviously we do our intelligence gathering before. What kind of are doors barricaded before we make entry? You know, are they fortified items like this? If that storm door is locked, it is very difficult. You're not just busting a panel out and and ripping that door off. So, in a situation where in a law enforcement situation, hostage type of situation, if we were trying to make, first of all, we would never use that as the primary entry point. But if we had to, we're going to have to hook

2:51:39 some type of, you know, cable to our armored truck and rip that thing off. I mean, that's a it appears from It is a pretty solid door. But again,

2:51:48 not everyone Maybe she locked the main door, you know, on the inside and and the handle that this one is unlocked. Or being that old, maybe she has more, you know, I lock all my doors. Um, I'll be honest, guys. My storm door at the house isn't doesn't stay locked. It's it's the main door that I'll lock. Um, but again, that that would be I think that's why we see that disconnect. And then I sounds like, you know, Megan, didn't the sheriff, wasn't he pretty much saying or confirm that or didn't someone confirm that the back door was primarily the one there was forced entry on?

2:52:20 Ashley reported. Ashley reported that it was open, but the sheriff wouldn't confirm that. and Ashley reported that both of the Nest cameras her her word was destroyed. The sheriff said disconnected. Um but either way, you know, we can see the man trying to disarm them or get them off. So they he would not confirm that about the back door, but it's it seems like a crazy thing to just pull out of the thin air, you know, like, oh, and by the way, the back door was wide open. And she did report that both both Nest cameras were gone, and the sheriff's now confirmed that. So, it seems to me this guy could not get in that front door. Maybe it it was too tough. And it seems also he was not able to get those ring cameras off or those nest cameras off at least at that first sitting. And that he probably walked to the back of the house and opened the door and he had more success with that Nest camera. Maybe he figured

2:53:14 it out in the back and then went back in the front and took those off once he learned how to do it from the back. And he definitely nothing's definite, but very much seems to have brought Nancy out the front door, right?

2:53:27 Which would have been much easier now because he's on the inside car. It still takes us back. It still takes us back, guys, to this. People are like, "Well, this is a burglary gone bad."

2:53:37 2026, people don't commit these types of burglaries like in the middle of the night, like home invasions. It just doesn't happen. There there's something more. This is a t I'm still sticking. This was a targeted attack. You know, we've got all the Twitter investigators out here right now or exin investigators that are commenting on everything, but that still you're never you are not convincing me that this was just some random person trying to break into a house at 2:00 in the morning and it it went bad. He had his gun on him. People also people who commit burglaries. All right, burglary, home invasion, two totally different things. We're looking at robbery on one, you know, armed robbery, carrying a firearm. This was some type of targeted attack.

2:54:18 Yeah, this it wasn't a burglary. I agree. We talked a bit ago about how a burglary I think he would have had a bigger bag. Maybe his backpack was full of other bags that he was going to then open. I don't I doubt it. And and there's nothing. The police haven't said that anything was stolen. Um I they don't think it's a burglary. So, and I think generally burglars try to go to homes that don't have anybody in them, including old ladies, right? And if they find an old lady, they run. They don't kidnap the old lady,

2:54:48 right? You're not going to take her with you. I mean, you talk about an albatross or or, you know, a ball and chain.

2:54:57 Yeah. And there's there's no value to an 84 year old woman in in any commercial market. You know, of course, I have a dear 84 year old woman in my own life. I don't mean value net. She's got a lot of value, but there's it's not like a baby that you can sell, you know. I mean, a baby, brand new baby can be considered gold. That's why most of us when we have them, every single window is locked. I mean, you know that when you've got a little baby, like you're extra careful to lock everything in because you know there are some very sick people who would love to steal your baby. Um, even a child sadly has got sick value to to very bad men. But an 84 year old woman doesn't. So, there's only one thing that makes sense to me, which is they knew who she was and they either wanted to extort Savannah or they wanted to end her life and and that why they removed her from the home in order to do that is

2:55:55 one of the biggest mysteries of this case. I mean, it could just be it's cleaner. You know, I want to get her out of the house and I'm going to take her life in the same place that I I meant to dispose of the body so that she's gone and we don't have to worry about it. There's no clues left over and I've worn the gloves in here. I've worn the hat, the mask. No one's going to know it was me and there's not going to be any DNA on her or elsewhere to point to me. Like no no bullet, you know, like we were talking about before, bullets can be traced. They can even have DNA on them potentially. there can be something that's identified to you. Maybe he wasn't some expert at like scraping serial numbers off of anything, you know, and he's like, "It's just cleaner if I get her out and I and I take care of her someplace else." Now, that we're back to all those motives. Did they know her? Did they hate her? Did they hate

2:56:43 Savannah? Life insurance, will financial burden, all that stuff. I can't imagine a gardener, she shorted on a tip, is going through all this. So, it's either some sort of a hatred for Savannah or the one of the other kids or a hatred for Nancy or an obsession with with Savannah potentially. Or it's they still want they want ransom and like somehow the original plan to get it got foiled by cryptocurrency man last week. You still got to have a big set of nuts on you to be able to take a woman and put her in the car when in the middle of the night at 2 o'clock in the morning. Any proactive law enforcement officer that's out on the streets, you know, that's when I made big cases. You know, 2 o'clock in the morning when nothing's going on and all of a sudden you see car a car, you know, it may peique my interest. You're like, you are really risking a lot to put a body in a car and and to drive off. Um,

2:57:40 and again, I know that there's been we Megan, we talked yesterday about grid searches and looking in the area about maybe did they dispose of her somewhere, but like you've got to have a big set on you to put a woman in your car and to take off driving, don't know how far, whether it was two miles down the road or multiple miles, like every every mile you go further, you're increasing your chance of getting caught.

2:58:05 Yeah. And with her not wanting to be in the car, a cop comes by, anybody drives, even even a regular person drives by you, she can kick her feet up in the back seat or something and you're like, "Whoa, what the hell was that?" You know,

2:58:18 and there's blood on her somewhere. That's true. That's true. But it's the desert, you know? I mean, isn't the desert infamous for like that's where the mob gets rid of dead bodies. That's where the cartel gets rid of dead bodies, you know? was like, I mean, my my knowledge of this is not vast, but I did see Breaking Bad. Um, but the desert seems like a place bad guys go to get rid of evidence of crimes, including human remains. I don't know. Would it really be so hard to find some very deserted area in the desert and and dispose of her there?

2:58:51 But that's really rough up to wildlife. That's really rough terrain, Megan. I've done tons of grid searches out in the desert with the RT and it's it's ter every people get hurt. Uh, everyone cuts their hands just I mean it's just you're just picking something up and then you realize it's a sharp part of a cactus and it's it's just terrible and frightening. the the all the statistics show that if if there was a body involved, so let's not you talk about Nancy per se, but in other instances where bodies are being disposed of, they're often times, most often disposed right near the road, like within 10 to 30 ft from the road because, as Chad was saying earlier, because it's so difficult to move a dead body unless you put them in a blanket or a tarp and drag But even then you get tired very quickly, right Chad?

2:59:48 I mean a 150lb person dragging them even dragging. I mean think about that desert terrain and cactus and rocks and all this stuff. Also think about and again I I've spent minimal time I did a a lot of training uh at a location out in New Mexico for explosives. But think about trying to dig a hole on desert soil. It's very difficult to do. You're not taking your grandpa's shovel and digging a deep enough grave. And if they're doing grid searches and they've had aerial footage up there and and and they're searching, you know, that immediate vicinity around that area, you know, I don't know what you're going to see, but it would be it would take hours and hours to dig a deep grave on hard desert soil. The smarter thing would be

3:00:37 and now you're also Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. The smarter thing to do would be to put foliage on top of the body. Make sure whatever clothing she has isn't brightly colored, etc. Put the dry foliage on top and let the animals do what they do. That being said, that this offender will have cuts on their hands even if they have had those gloves on. So, they had leather gloves on, but trust me, I've done I've done this work with gloves and leather gloves, uh, tactical gloves, latex gloves every time I cut my hands. The only way you don't is if you have those hardcore heavyduty um, gloves designed not to get cuts while dealing with sharp stuff.

3:01:23 And I'm think the more and and this is a local this like if we're presuming this is a local, you know, with with local knowledge of the roads and so on. What a hassle. You know, it is easier just if you're going to commit a murder just to leave the body in the spot like in the house. Like why why take her? Why is there any reason to take her other than to ask for ransom?

3:01:44 No. No. But if he is a local, I mean, I'm going I'm I really am going to start going into and I don't know how large of a town. I mean, how big is Tucson? I mean, I'm looking here. It looks like there's a several Walmarts, but you know, the gloves, that backpack. I'm going to start going to every Dick Sporting Goods, Sports Academy, Walmart. I'm going around with my team right now and walking through there. Do y'all sell, you know, this color backpack? Do y'all sell black rubber gloves? Yeah, we do. Pull up your inventory. I mean, let let's look. Now, we're not saying that they went there. Who knows? Maybe they're dumb enough to Either way, whether you went online or or somewhere else still, you could probably once they I figure out the brand of this backpack, that's going to help because I'm sure Amazon has ways that they can say, "Hey, we've sold x amount of these backpacks and this is where they were shipped to

3:02:36 or whatever." Um there's a lot, you know, in this there's a lot in these images um that gives law enforcement direction to start the next stage of this investigation. Marine, wouldn't you agree?

3:02:50 Lots of leads, but they're they're black leather gloves, by the way. Oh, they are okay.

3:02:55 If I if I misspoke. Um we we did take a look at the roof camera uh while we were talking. my team did and it is it does appear that it's uh back is it on the pool house Deb, but it's definitely it's it looks like it's on the pool house and it's oriented toward the backyard. Um which could be good. I don't know. I mean, if the backyard at all captures the back door, then there's a chance that they that they got something off of that. Though again, it's not one of the pictures that's being produced by the FBI right now. I imagine they're giving us everything they have. Um,

3:03:34 Megan, is that a gate in the upper corner? Is that a black gate to the left of the blue door?

3:03:43 Deb, can you see? I think it's a walkway, like a breezeway to get it into the house from what I

3:03:50 I'm just basing, you know, could you, you know, I'm just trying to see how much coverage that camera I'm guess if we had backed, you know, it'd be better to see if it was backed out a lot further. But um

3:04:02 Mhm. Well, at a minimum there should be the same video of our masked man approaching the nest camera that we have from the front one. Sure.

3:04:13 If in fact he did go around to the back. I mean, like if if Ashley's right and he dismantled both cameras and there was one in the front and one in the back and we believe he probably couldn't have gotten through that storm door. Um and she's reporting there was forced entry, then there should be more video of this guy from the back Nest cam. I mean, hopefully the the company's working to retrieve that, too. You know, maybe maybe that's still under development. We just we just don't know. But this guy's Look, we'll end with this. He's in a panic right now. He's out there. He knows that the clock is ticking now.

3:04:46 That they're going to get him. Somebody knows him. That what's unfamiliar to us is going to be intimately familiar to probably more than one person. And there may be something about him that's changed recently. Like, did he shave off his mustache and his soul patch or beard in the past day? Right? Like, if if if right now he shaves, does he have sort of a weird gate? Does he have a backpack that looks like that? Have you ever seen him work by putting his flashlight in his mouth? And does he have a weird one that doesn't like stick out the way like a normal tiny handheld uh flashlight would? Uh, it seems to be some sort of a rectangle that he's got in there. Not not like your regular handheld tiny little flashlight. Does he have a gun?

3:05:31 Is it potentially a Glock that's got the longer um barrel? What the barrel? Thank you. The longer barrel on it. Does he have gloves like this? Does he Is he in Tucson, Arizona, which is so hot right now? Brian Enton's talking all the time about how they they need another smoothie. He's dying of heat.

3:05:46 Yes. And here's this guy. I realize in the in the desert the overnight it gets cold, but he's got what appear to be uh thick gloves and a fleece jacket on um and the long pants. Like somebody is going to know this look and they're they may even have seen a face mask which is a very unusual thing in Tucson, Arizona. Um sitting around their roommates's room or in the Amazon cart. Um, that's probably a recent purchase. That that face mask is probably a recent purchase from a store or an Amazon. All these things someone's going to know or the FBI is going to find. I do feel hopeful that it's just a matter of time and and then we'll

3:06:30 cuts on his hands. Yeah. Does he have cuts on his hands from being in the brush? I mean, that's one thing. Everybody who goes into the backyard of Nancy Guthrie, not like her immediate backyard, but her the wild right behind her house, how many pricker bushes there are, how it's like treacherous back there. And the Customs and Border Patrol has been walking back there with Brian saying this is like dangerous. Like if if you don't know which plants to avoid, you know, you get all caught up back here. that that's one of their skills is like finding people because they're experts on knowing what to stay away from and finding people caught right in the midst of these, you know, night nightmare vegetation situations. Um,

3:07:11 and our hope would be, let's just say that the worst case scenario, unfortunately, that NY's no longer with us and they discover her body. Obviously, hopefully, um, if she put up some type of fight that they were able to pull, you know, DNA from under her fingernails or somewhere like that. Either way, like you said, Megan, um that time's not on this guy's hands. Your days are numbered.

3:07:35 Yeah. Well, it's just a matter of time before we do a news alert saying he's been caught. I just I can feel it. There's just those pictures are too good. They're actually really good um for, you know, surveillance cameras that you don't usually get them that good. So, that's hats off to the FBI and the sheriff's office for getting this stuff uh from back from the camera. And you know what? To the Nest camera people who appear to have been instrumental in making sure they had what they needed. And now the rest of us have to do our job and do what Savannah asked us to, you know, keep an eye out, look for the unusual behavior. And no matter how strange it may seem, how uncomfortable you are about calling, I told the audience, I already called. I called the FBI with a tip. I like don't you're not a bother. It's it's up to them to decide what's relevant and what's not. call because there are e experts like you two

3:08:23 sitting at the other end of the line eventually to whom what seems like a nothing could actually mean something.

3:08:29 Well, it's called the bystander. I Moren, we really put you to work on your first day here on the Megan Kelly show. Thank you so much for being here.

3:08:37 My phone's blowing up and I'm like I'm still on and they're like wait what? No Chad's been he's used to this by now but thank you both so much and I'm sure we'll be seeing you again very soon.

3:08:48 Thank you. My pleasure. All the best. Wow. And thanks to our listening audience. My god, here we are another day. We really originally today our plan was to do uh Guthrie for the first hour and then we're going to bring on Andrew Claven to do some other stories second hour and then you know you you know what happened and here we are three and a half hours later. Thank you for listening. Thanks for trusting us with the story and um we'll see you again tomorrow.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Disturbing NEW Video and Photos Show Armed Mystery Man at Guthrie's House, w/ Phil Holloway and More"?

Megyn Kelly (Guest), Savannah Guthrie (Guest), Phil Holloway (Guest), Chris Nanos (Guest), Erin (Guest), Chad (Guest).

What is "Disturbing NEW Video and Photos Show Armed Mystery Man at Guthrie's House, w/ Phil Holloway and More" about?

The search for Nancy Guthrie, the missing 84-year-old mother of NBC News host Savannah Guthrie, has entered its tenth day, with authorities revealing that no suspects or vehicles have been identified in her suspected kidnapping from her Arizona home. Both the Pima County Sheriff's Department and FBI are involved in the investigation, but communication issues between the agencies have emerged,…

What is mentioned in this Megyn Kelly episode?

17 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Nancy Guthrie, Megan Kelly, Savannah Guthrie, FBI, Chris Nanos, Puma County Sheriff's Department. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Disturbing NEW Video and Photos Show Armed Mystery Man at Guthrie's House, w/ Phil Holloway and More"?

The episode runs 3 h 9 min; the transcript is about 36,099 words in 411 timestamped sections.

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