Famous Sketch Artist Generates Image of What Nancy Guthrie Abductor MIGHT Look Like, w/ FBI Experts

What this episode is about

Famous sketch artist Lois utilizes innovative techniques to help crime victims recall faces, focusing on details like hair and expressions, to create a sketch of Nancy Guthrie's potential abductor. The resulting image depicts a man in his late 30s with distinct facial features, including a mustache and upward-tilting eyes, derived from surveillance footage.

Key takeaways

• Memories are sketchy, but Lois Gibson proves even trauma can unlock hidden details in witnesses' minds.
• Hair and expression: the unexpected keys to facial recognition—who knew 'bad hair day' held such investigative power?
• From panic to precision, Gibson's empathy transforms crime scenes into canvases for justice, one sketch at a time.
• When life imitates art: Gibson's uncanny sketches make the line between perception and reality blur delightfully.
• Witnessing a crime might obscure a face, but emotional impressions often paint a clearer picture than we think.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Megyn Kelly (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Jim Fitzgerald (Guest) · 5 min speaking
• Moren (Guest) · 3 min speaking
• Lois Gibson (Guest) · 2 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Lois Gibson, Paul Diesson
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Paul Diesson, Nancy Guthrie, Lois Gibson, Donald Eugene Dutton
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Lois Gibson
4. 9:00 – 12:00: Nancy Guthrie
5. 12:00 – 15:00: Birch Gold Group

Notable quotes from "Famous Sketch Artist Generates Image of What Nancy Guthrie Abductor MIGHT Look Like, w/ FBI Experts"

• So many of them will come in and say, I didn't see the face. I don't I don't know. And just listen to Lois here.

  about Lois Gibson · at 0:09

• She tells the story, we actually pulled it. This is again in her interview with the Guinness Book. Who knew the Guinness Book of World Records was doing on camera interviews…

  about Guinness Book of World Records · at 2:58

• Sketch. So, they held an in hospital room video lineup for Paul Diesson and he picked him out and then they went to the parking lot of the shoplifting scene and they found a…

  about Paul Diesson · at 4:47

• It's sad because we're here. We are, it's it's now getting extremely unlikely that Nancy is still alive because the family told us she can't survive without her critical meds. And it's possible they just said.

  about Nancy Guthrie · at 9:32

• There's a never- ending list of reasons gold has risen over 700% in the last 20 years, and a never- ending list of reasons smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings into precious.

  about Birch Gold Group · at 14:19

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Nancy Guthrie — Person · Case subject (kidnapping victim) · 2 mentions · first at 5:57
  The alleged kidnapping victim whose case frames the entire segment; Gibson's new sketch is explicitly tied to the 'Nancy Guthrie kidnapping suspect' and the discussion centers on whether she is still alive.
• Lois Gibson — Person · Referenced expert · 3 mentions · first at 2:43
  Central referenced authority on forensic composite sketching; her methods and past successes are used to argue her new sketch is a credible investigative lead in the Nancy Guthrie kidnapping discussion.
• Paul Diesson — Person · Referenced victim / witness (in prior case example) · 4 mentions · first at 2:54
  Used as a concrete example of Gibson's effectiveness: a severely injured officer who believed he couldn't recall the shooter, yet Gibson produced a sketch that helped lead to identification and conviction.
• Donald Eugene Dutton — Person · Referenced perpetrator (in prior case example) · 1 mention · first at 3:25
  Identified as the escapee convict who shot Officer Paul Diesson; his capture and conviction are presented as evidence that Gibson's sketches can be highly accurate and operationally useful.
  Three days later, Don Dutton was caught trying to shoplift a chainsaw from a Sears. When he was arrested for the shoplifting incident, two of the guys at the jail thought he looked like my.

Books & papers

• Guinness Book of World Records — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 3:01
  Mentioned in the context of Lois Gibson's interview about her work as a forensic sketch artist and her record for most identifications.

Sponsors

• Birch Gold Group — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 14:29
  Promoted as a service for diversifying savings into precious metals, particularly gold, during economic uncertainty.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Now, she talked uh with the Guinness Book of World Record records when she was honored about how she helps crime victims remember faces because she said so many of them will come in and say, "I didn't see the face. I don't I don't know." And just listen to Lois here. I've had witnesses that were screaming, "I never saw the face." They screamed they never saw the face. Well, here's two tricks. Number one is you ask them, "What kind of hair did they have?" And everybody remembers remembers hair. I mean, human beings are obsessed with hair. That's why high school's so hard.

0:33 And then the other trick you use if they are sure, they say, "No, I never saw the face." Is you talk about something else, you become very nice to them and you ponder the character of the person that attacked them and then you say, "What kind of expression did he have?" If they answer that, they saw the face.

0:56 M. It's very clever, right? I like her approach. Yes. Her whole her whole demeanor is good. So, she took a shot at coming up with a sketch based on NY's abductor based on the mask. Like, she took a look at his masked face. And here it is.

1:15 For listening audience, it looks like a Hispanic man. He looks, forgive me, kind of handsome. Um, a good head of hair. The black mustache sort of right down into a goatee that doesn't have hair all out throughout the chin. Just a just a line of it going down the sides of his little mouth and down into like a devil a devil beard with the sole patch connected with a little devil beard, but not a pointed beard. Um, he has a nice nose. He's got a little age on his face. I'd say this man here is late 30s. And he's got the eyes that you see in in the actual photo from NY's ring cam nest cam in that the sides of the eyes, the outside end of the eyes go maybe ever so slightly upward. You know, they're they tilt almost just a little bit upward at the at the outside. There's no hood on those eyelids. This guy does not need the uh the plastic surgery that gets rid of the upper eyelid. Um and he we were told

2:23 yesterday by law enforcement FBI that's what they were doing on NY's porch with that tent as Jim and Moren said um they were figuring out how tall the perp was and they said 5'9 to 510. So this guy doesn't look particularly large in stature and the way she's showing him in her sketch that she came up with. And just before I get it to you guys to weigh in on, I'm going to give you one more thing on Lois Gibson. She's solved all these cases or helped solve and one of the best was this case of a nonfatal shooting of a cop named officer Paul Diesson.

2:58 Um she tells the story, we actually pulled it. This is again in her interview with the Guinness Book. Who knew the Guinness Book of World Records was doing on camera interviews, by the way. Um she tells the story about how she helped catch officer Paul Diesson's shooter. Watch this. So, I had an officer that was shot in the head and shot in the back and run over and drugged under a car. Officer Paul Diesson was patrolling one night and he didn't realize the guy that he stopped to just give a regular ticket was an escape convict whose name was Donald Eugene Dutton. So, Don Dutton, as soon as he gets stopped by Paul Diesson, he jumps out of his car and he shoots Paul in the head and in the back. And Paul twirls around and falls down unconscious on the ground. So, Don Dutton got back in the car and on purpose ran over Paul, Officer Diesson, and it drugg him down the street about 60 ft. So, Paul is so tough. He gets up

3:54 and walks back to his radio and calls in his own assist and was semianc. I didn't see his face. I only saw the flash of the gun. So, I talked about other things and said, "Paul, you're going to live. You're going to be okay." And I said, what kind of expression did he have? And he I'll never forget he said he looked like a shark, like he didn't care about anything at all. And inside my mind, I'm going yeehaw cuz that means he remembered the face. Anyway, Officer Diesson swears he doesn't remember doing the sketch with me because I talked to him years later and I've got it hanging on my wall. They released the sketch.

4:35 Three days later, Don Dutton was caught trying to shoplift a chainsaw from a Sears. When he was arrested for the shoplifting incident, two of the guys at the jail thought he looked like my sketch. So, they held an in hospital room video lineup for Paul Diesson and he picked him out and then they went to the parking lot of the shoplifting scene and they found a car with pieces of Paul's skin and uniform hanging from the undercarriage. So, he for sure did it. and I went to trial and he got life in prison and Paul reached over across the bench and kissed me on the cheek.

5:12 Incredible story. And for the listening audience, her sketch of the perp there, Don, is identical, guys. Look at that. Look at that. It's as if she was working off of the photograph of this man. But when she drew that sketch on the left, she had never seen his face. She had a cop who didn't think he had seen his face. A cop who'd suffered massive trauma. So, you'd have to really question whether he he remembered anything. You could be relied on for a description. It is as if she drew the photograph. So, we do need to take Lois seriously when she puts this sketch together and says, "I took a shot." And here's what she wrote on X. I guessed at the parts of the face covered with the ski mask on this uh this Nancy Guthrie kidnapping suspect. I use the surveillance photo shown. I spent 43 years at the job trying to help detectives with similar photos. Only things somewhat sure are eyes and part

6:10 of lips/m mustache. I'll take the hit if I'm drastically wrong. Don't criticize. Do your own. So Lois is like she's not taking guff from anybody. She's throwing down. It was a bold thing for her to do because she knows she could be wrong. I take her very seriously and just for not for nothing, but let's just compare her sketch to Porchman

6:34 from last night. Something's wrong. Pretty good. I mean, it's pretty damn good. I got to say, for listening audience, it's eerily similar. Like, do they not have to seriously investigate this latest porch man Jim?

6:55 Well, I'd be curious if Lois saw this latest porch man, as we'll call him. I don't I don't think so. From what you said and

7:02 no, because this came out yesterday and this latest guy, this this this hit today.

7:06 Come on. Well, you're not going to hear Jim Fitzgerald on Megan Kelly show say, "Don't incorporate this sketch into the investigation." This is obviously a a a positive lead and uh and I it's by the way it's refreshing to see sketch artists who actually draw their composite sketches as opposed to using software there. The software is okay but I really like seeing the artist. It's a it's a it's a true art. Not to use that word over again. Lots and lots of practice is needed. You have to be a very good listener and you have to know how to interact with people. Obviously she's not doing that in this case. Uh so I would say very much this this sketch is worth putting out. I will add this caveat though uh and I I put some of these pointers out a few days ago with you Megan. It's that this guy may have been change may have changed his identity since certainly since the abduction itself but certainly since the

7:56 the video went out even with the uh with the skull mask on. So look at the basic I would tell the the public look at the basic features in this composite sketch but don't get thrown off you know without the goatee mustache whatever but just think did this guy have it before if he wore this most of his life whatever or certainly in the last few years all of a sudden it came off in the last week or so call the FBI tip line

8:19 red alert I mean Moren it's this woman's got a lifetime of figuring out what does someone look like without being shown what they look like by just being given a few clues, a few remembrances. And here, I mean, I would argue the the face masked subject is probably even easier to work off of than someone's memory because you can see things like face shape and some facial hair. And the eyes are the eyes are everything,

8:52 right? But if the face mask is tight, it can smash down the nose considerably. Mhm.

8:58 Um, but I'm not going to argue with this lady either. I mean, she's she's legit. She's done the job. She's succeeded at it over and over and over. So, but I would agree with Fitz that let let's not limit our um imaginations to what this person will or will not look like. They'll definitely be on edge. They're going to be um, you know, they're going to be freaking out. But this whole where we are now is just like another dip or rise in this roller coaster called the Nancy Guthrie case. This is just unprecedented.

9:32 It's sad because we're here. We are, you know, it's it's now getting extremely unlikely that Nancy is still alive because the family told us she can't survive without her critical meds. And you know, it's possible they just said that in order to engender sympathy with the kidnapper. like this is about to turn into a murder in case you didn't know that and didn't plan that. But here we are almost two weeks later and we still don't have her. And they they said they'd been checking the hospitals to see if anybody had like popped in to try to get meds and at least the initial search suggested no. Go ahead, Mory.

10:06 With regard to the meds, um my mother-in-law was put on hospice because they were she was it was during COVID and she was in assisted living and they said we're taking her off all of her meds for whatever reason. And we don't expect her to last long. We don't think she can last long without all this medic, heart medication, everything. Right. They took her off the meds. She lasted another couple years and she felt better than she felt while she was on the meds.

10:29 So, that gives me a little bit of hope. We have to work this case. Law enforcement has to work this case like she's alive. It's the only way to work this. And that's why tensions run high. That's why the stakes are so high is because everyone's trying to believe she's going to be a she's going to come home.

10:50 Well, I mean, Jim, you know as well as I do that these sketches, they they can be really good. I mean, they can be great. Like Lois, they can be not as great. I mean, the Uni Bomber sketch is the most famous or infamous sketch in the world. Everybody knew the uni unomer by his police sketch for the vast maj I bet. In fact, when you say uni bomber, I think people think of the police sketch more than they think of the actual image of Ted Kazinski once you guys got him. Um, I can't really look I'm looking at it now. Can I really say this sketch artist nailed Ted Kazinski? I don't know. I mean, like, you know, it shows him with the hood, the hoodie and the sunglasses, and then you see him later with his crazy mane of hair and his crazy beard. I'm not sure.

11:36 Um, there have been others. There was one the the Nightstalker, a serial killer in um San Francisco Bay Area, LA, April 84 through August of 85. He killed at least 15 people. We're showing his sketch on the board right now. That's not bad. That one's not bad at all. Um police had released one of these to the media and he was caught later, but that one's not bad. Uh, the one of Dennis Raider, BTK. I don't know. You tell me what you think.

12:15 It's not going to identify him with his family or friends, unfortunately. You could rule some people out.

12:20 It'll be tough to rule someone in based on that composite right there. But they tried.

12:24 Let me show you one other. Here's here's Son of Sam, David Burkowitz, who terrified us all. 1977, one year in New York City. And let me tell you, growing up in upstate New York during that time, everybody knew who Son of Sam was. This one actually got a lot of criticism after he was caught because they they ripped on the sketch artist. I think it's actually pretty good, not knowing, you know, for somebody who who's never seen him before. But the face is a lot thinner than Burkowitz really was. Like Burkowitz was fat. He was kind of chubby,

12:51 fat, and he had a that that receding hairline that you don't, you know, this the sketch just looks like some guy with perfect hair versus

12:59 And the sketch shows a nose that looks like I don't know. It's like more wide at the bottom with wider nostrils and a thinner bridge. And Burkowitz's nose was it looks more Italian to me. Like

13:12 it doesn't look the same down at the bottom. And the lips don't look the same. I mean, it bears a resemblance, I think it's fair to say. So, I don't know. Like, they're hit or miss basically.

13:22 But let let me add here, all this stuff is good and important, but this opens up another door for us that I was hesitant to get into for the last week or so. I think he touched on it yesterday. Why is this guy now on the porch of someone else a week before or so, five miles away? And what is the problem with that? Uh, and was this a missionoriented project, which I thought it was all along, to kidnap Mrs. Guthrie, and we'll rule out Tupac from last night, but this guy does look good. Is this now a random sort of act of violence, an abduction there? And and then hope that even strengthens more now that the kidnapping part and the the raising the money for ransom is even more specious and not connected at all to the actual abduction.

14:14 International disputes, inflation, rising national debt, digital currency. There's a never- ending list of reasons gold has risen over 700% in the last 20 years, and a never- ending list of reasons smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings into precious metals with Birch Gold Group. Gold can thrive during uncertainty, which is why it's a crucial part of a balanced strategy. It gives you peace of mind given all the events that could impact the US economy. See if holding gold in a tax sheltered retirement account is right for you. Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into an IRA in gold. Just text MK to the number 9898998 to receive your free info kit on gold. There's no obligation, just useful information. With an A+ rating from the Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers, consider letting Birch Gold help you diversify with gold so you too can have peace of

15:08 mind regardless of the uncertainty. Text MK to 989898. Thanks so much for watching. If you like what you just saw, hit the subscribe button for more clips and full episodes.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Famous Sketch Artist Generates Image of What Nancy Guthrie Abductor MIGHT Look Like, w/ FBI Experts"?

Megyn Kelly (Guest), Jim Fitzgerald (Guest), Moren (Guest), Lois Gibson (Guest).

What is "Famous Sketch Artist Generates Image of What Nancy Guthrie Abductor MIGHT Look Like, w/ FBI Experts" about?

Famous sketch artist Lois utilizes innovative techniques to help crime victims recall faces, focusing on details like hair and expressions, to create a sketch of Nancy Guthrie's potential abductor. The resulting image depicts a man in his late 30s with distinct facial features, including a mustache and upward-tilting eyes, derived from surveillance footage.

What is mentioned in this Megyn Kelly episode?

6 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Nancy Guthrie, Lois Gibson, Paul Diesson, Donald Eugene Dutton, Guinness Book of World Records. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Famous Sketch Artist Generates Image of What Nancy Guthrie Abductor MIGHT Look Like, w/ FBI Experts"?

The episode runs 15 min; the transcript is about 2,804 words in 32 timestamped sections.

More from Megyn Kelly

• All analyzed episodes
• Books mentioned on Megyn Kelly
• People mentioned on Megyn Kelly
• Sponsors mentioned on Megyn Kelly
• Topics mentioned on Megyn Kelly