Transcript

The Nuzzi-RFK Drama, Attacking Tucker's Son to Smear Vance, & New Cancel Culture, w/ Emily Jashinsky

From Megyn Kelly · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 42 min · 18,956 words · 167 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Nuzzi-RFK Drama, Attacking Tucker's Son to Smear Vance, & New Cancel Culture, w/ Emily Jashinsky", an episode of Megyn Kelly published November 18, 2025 (1 h 42 min, about 18,956 words). It mentions 54 people, works and ideas, including New York, New York, X Corporation, Vanity Fair, Damonte Cheryl, New York Magazine.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: New York, New York, Damonte Cheryl, Health and Human Services, MK Media
  2. – 20:00: New York, New York, Vanity Fair, Adderall, Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky
  3. – 30:00: New York, New York, Ask Not, Damonte Cheryl, Katie Tur
  4. – 40:00: New York, New York, Mark Sanford, Capitol Hill, New York Magazine
  5. – 50:00: American KTO, Damonte Cheryl, Olivia Nuzzi, Vanity Fair
  6. – 1:00:00: X Corporation, SiriusXM
  7. – 1:20:00: New York, New York
  8. – 1:30:00: Capitol Hill, New York, New York, Washington, D.C., X Corporation
  9. – 1:40:00: Capitol Hill
  10. – 1:41:56: New York, New York

Notable quotes from "The Nuzzi-RFK Drama, Attacking Tucker's Son to Smear Vance, & New Cancel Culture, w/ Emily Jashinsky"

  • Lot of these figures. RFKJ of course has been on this show many times. He's now our health and human services secretary. Olivia has been on this show too and is a friend. Ryan…
    about Health and Human Services · at
  • Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. Let's be honest, America can still be a dangerous place, and you cannot afford to wait for help.
    about X Corporation · at
  • Of the audience is like who? So Olivia Nuzi is this rising star in the journalism field. she worked for New York magazine. Prior to that she worked she went to forom and then…
    about New York, New York · at
  • Has developed a stalkerque interest in me and I don't know what this is about. I did not ask Cheryl Hines about this when she came by my set to promote her book because it just…
    about Damonte Cheryl · at
  • That, we'll report that, too. So, this is a very todry mess. But Olivia has just gotten rehired by Vanity Fair to write for them. And she's also releasing what appears to be a…
    about Vanity Fair · at
  • Of thing that happens behind closed doors and sometimes not even behind closed doors in Washington DC, in New York, Los Angeles, among very powerful, wealthy people. But, I…
    about Washington, D.C. · at
  • News. Quote, We have a big problem, he recalled telling the agent, quote, Olivia is sleeping with Mark Sanford.
    about Mark Sanford · at
  • Something like that. And she's she's an essaist. If she's not covering like the daily Tik Tok of Capitol Hill and campaigns and politics as someone who's like breaking news…
    about Capitol Hill · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Damonte Cheryl — Person · 5 mentions · first at
  • Emily Jashinsky — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Today will have some thoughts. She is Emily Jins Jashinsky and she is the host of Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky on the MK Media podcast network. She's also now the host of…
  • Mark Sanford — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Keith Olbermann — Person · 2 mentions
  • Carara Swisser — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Forgive me audience. and that basically her career wound up taking a massive hit because Carara Swisser, as the reports have it, went to the head of New York Magazine and said…
  • Brendan Callahan — Person · 1 mention · first at
    It Cheryl's fault? I don't Moren, my pal Moren, you our fellow star on the MK Media Network, Callahan, she would beg me right now to make the choice, the point that her…
  • Katie Tur — Person · 1 mention · first at
    She's Yeah, she's paid her penance for whatever would come later. He's so disgusting. It's amazing. Katie Tur and he as well lived together for years. Who is many Katie Tur?
  • Steve Cracker — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Well and this is this brings me to Ryan Liza. We knew I think that she was within I think. Did we? Steve Cracker will let me know.
  • Olivia Nuzzi — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Up in the romance of all of that. So I hope that this has been a colossal lesson for Olivia Nuzzi, too.
  • Amber Carara Moren — Person · 1 mention
  • Charles C.W. Cooke — Person · 1 mention
  • Chris Cillizza — Person · 1 mention
  • Chris Lizza — Person · 1 mention
  • Doug Emhoff — Person · 1 mention
  • Mary Richardson Kennedy — Person · 1 mention
  • RFKJ — Person · 1 mention
  • Ryan Lizza — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • American KTO — Book · 3 mentions · first at
    Write for them. And she's also releasing what appears to be a sort of memoir called American KTO. C to O. She's moved to LA. She was in DC. She's moved to LA and she was in New York for a time too.
  • Vanity Fair excerpt — Book · 1 mention · first at
    That's license to also be very self-indulgent. and the writing in the Vanity Fair excerpt of the book that was released yesterday, it is so overroought. And you could just tell…
  • Ask Not — Book · 1 mention · first at
    What's going on in his marriage with Cheryl, but like just read Moren's book, Ask Not. that many men who are unhappily married feel that. And the reason they don't act on it is…

Companies & orgs

  • X Corporation — Company · 8 mentions · first at
  • Vanity Fair — Company · 8 mentions · first at
  • New York Magazine — Company · 4 mentions · first at
    Of the audience is like who? So Olivia Nuzi is this rising star in the journalism field. she worked for New York magazine. Prior to that she worked she went to forom and then…
  • Health and Human Services — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • MK Media — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Emily Jins Jashinsky and she is the host of Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky on the MK Media podcast network. She's also now the host of the Megan Kelly wrap-up show that airs…
  • SiriusXM — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    The MK Media podcast network. She's also now the host of the Megan Kelly wrap-up show that airs on SiriusXM channel 111, the MK channel. That's at 2 p.m. right after the show. You can speak to her every weekday by calling 83344 Megan.
  • MK Media podcast network — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Emily Jins Jashinsky and she is the host of Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky on the MK Media podcast network. She's also now the host of the Megan Kelly wrap-up show that airs…
  • Sportsman's Warehouse — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • The Daily Beast — Company · 1 mention · first at
    She went to forom and then she worked for some far-left publication. I can't remember the Daily Beast.
  • MK Media Network — Company · 1 mention · first at
    It Cheryl's fault? I don't Moren, my pal Moren, you our fellow star on the MK Media Network, Callahan, she would beg me right now to make the choice, the point that her…
  • Page Six — Company · 1 mention · first at
    It was all articles about her, but it was very clear, especially on some of like the Page Six reporting, the New York Post reporting, that she was cooperating behind the…
  • National Review — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Little flare, you know. it's it's too much for our friend Charles CW Cook over at National Review who's not a fan, but that's not a surprise to me. He's he's he's English. so…
  • Emily Jashinsky Wrap-Up Show — Company · 1 mention
  • House — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky — Product · 2 mentions · first at
    Today will have some thoughts. She is Emily Jins Jashinsky and she is the host of Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky on the MK Media podcast network. She's also now the host of…
  • SiriusXM Channel 111 — Product · 1 mention · first at
    The MK Media podcast network. She's also now the host of the Megan Kelly wrap-up show that airs on SiriusXM channel 111, the MK channel. That's at 2 p.m. right after the show. You can speak to her every weekday by calling 83344 Megan.
  • MK Channel — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Now the host of the Megan Kelly wrap-up show that airs on SiriusXM channel 111, the MK channel. That's at 2 p.m. right after the show. You can speak to her every weekday by calling 83344 Megan.
  • Adderall — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Like near-death experiences. She told him she liked uppers. I told him that I took Adderall and she writes that she said I love you only after he said it first. He called her…
  • Telos News — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Oh. It is his substack, but he just calls it Telos News. What does that mean? Telos. Is that a Spanish reference? I don't even know what that is. What is Telos? T L O S. It's Latin.
  • Burna — Product · 1 mention
  • DMT — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Memoir — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Just gotten rehired by Vanity Fair to write for them. And she's also releasing what appears to be a sort of memoir called American KTO. C to O. She's moved to LA. She was in DC. She's moved to LA and she was in New York for a time too.
  • West Coast editor — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    How could you employ her as a politics reporter at this point. She is, as you point out, West Coast editor for Vanity Fair, which seems fine, and I don't think for one second she should lose that position.
  • Democrat — Concept · 1 mention
  • Essay — Concept · 1 mention
  • Feminine Fatale — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • New York, New York — Place · 18 mentions · first at
  • Capitol Hill — Place · 4 mentions · first at
  • Washington, D.C. — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • Los Angeles — Place · 2 mentions · first at
    Doors and sometimes not even behind closed doors in Washington DC, in New York, Los Angeles, among very powerful, wealthy people. But, I think everybody understood that this…
  • Fort Wayne, Indiana — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Lethal force. And that's exactly why so many are turning to Burna. Burna is proudly American. Hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, these less lethal self-defense launchers…
  • South Carolina — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Presidential race he says but Newsie was busy spending more and more time on the road including in South Carolina which he believed was for reporting instead Liza now claims…

Sponsors

  • Burna.com — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Visit burna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's by rnna.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend.
  • Sportsman's Warehouse — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Visit burna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's by rnna.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend.

Full transcript with timestamps

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show. It's a very busy news day. There's a lot happening right now. The House is expected to vote on the release of the Epstein files this afternoon. A move President Trump now says he supports. We'll talk about it. Plus, we have to get into the soap opera that literally everybody in the media and the political world is talking about involving Olivia News and her former fiance Ryan Lizo who used to work for Politico and RFKJ and now another politician. You may know a lot of these figures. Uh RFKJ of course has been on this show many times. He's now our health and human services secretary. Olivia has been on this show too and is a friend. Um Ryan Liza of Political never on this show, but man is he fighting back in this love triangle in which they allegedly find themselves with the reveal about another politician. I mean that what this has to

do with your life. I know not literally nothing. But it's it's just one of the biggest stories that's out there right now. Literally everybody I know has sent it to me. Like everybody wants to know what we think, what you think. Um does it mean anything in the larger scale of life? I don't know. Uh I think our guest today will have some thoughts. She is Emily Jins Jashinsky and she is the host of Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky on the MK Media podcast network. She's also now the host of the Megan Kelly wrap-up show that airs on SiriusXM channel 111, the MK channel. That's at 2 p.m. right after the show. You can speak to her every weekday by calling 83344 Megan.

8334463496 starting at 2. Or you can get on the line a little early if you want to be one of the first ones. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. Let's be honest, America can still be a dangerous place, and you cannot afford to wait for help. Sure, you could use a firearm, but in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force can have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9% of all altercations do not require lethal force. And that's exactly why so many are turning to Burna. Burna is proudly American. Hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, these less lethal self-defense launchers are trusted by hundreds of government agencies, law enforcement departments, and private security companies as well. Over 600,000 Burna pistols have been sold, most to private citizens who just refuse to be victims. Burna launchers fire rockhard

kinetic rounds that will stop somebody in their tracks and powerful tear gas and pepper projectiles. That's more like it's like a pepper spray on steroids that's capable of stopping a threat from up to 60 ft away. No background checks required. No waiting periods. And Burna can ship straight to your door. You can get it in either orange or black. Take responsibility. Protect your future. Visit burna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's by rnna.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend.

Emily, welcome back. Great to have you. Thanks for having me, Megan. Good to be here.

Um I don't it's as good a place to start as anywhere else. I guess since everybody's talking about it now, most of the audience is like who? So Olivia Nuzi is this rising star in the journalism field. Um she worked for New York magazine. Prior to that she worked she went to forom and then she worked for some far-left publication. I can't remember the Daily Beast.

Daily Beast. Okay. Yeah. Daily Beast. Then she got a job working for New York Magazine. She's got, you know, sort of a flare with the with the pen and the storytelling in my view. I I enjoy reading her stuff. She was one of the few reporters to come out and report on what she saw around Joe Biden's mental infirmity prior to the election. It was late in the game, don't get me wrong, but it was prior to the election.

Uh, and pri prior to the debate, I should say, right, wasn't it? Was it prior to

Yeah, I think so. It was right around there. Right after the debate. Okay. In any event, there weren't that many leftists who were willing to write about what they saw in Joe Biden. She was one of them. But then it came out that um she was having an alleged affair with Bobby Kennedy, like a I mean they're calling it a digital affair, which sounds wrong. Um but what they mean by that is no in-person interludes like phone sex basically. Forgive me audience. and um that that basically her career wound up taking a massive hit because Carara Swisser, as the reports have it, went to the head of New York Magazine and said, "Olivia, one of your reporters, is having an affair with RFKJ, whom she profiled, which is what makes it professionally very dicey." And um she got turfed from New York Magazine. They they fired her. the the the story has another wrinkle because she was engaged at the time to

political writer Ryan Liza and they'd been living together and he did not go quietly into the night when all of this happened. She wound up filing for a restraining order against him in court accusing him of taping her and you know stalkeresque behavior. He denied all of it and said she's the only one who's done anything wrong here, not me. And she wound up withdrawing her motion for a restraining order. He points out without any proof of her allegations against him. So he feels and to use his word that he's been defamed by her, without evidence, and that people are still walking around with this idea that he that he somehow did anything wrong.

Whereas he says, you know, I'm the victim. I got cheated on by, you know, my my fiance. I thought I was going to marry. Um RFKJ came out at the time and said, "I don't even know her. She just profiled me one time and like apparently has developed a stalkerque interest in me and I I don't know what this is about." I did not ask Cheryl Hines about this when she came by my set to promote her book because it just felt very rude and untored. And if this is true, how is it Cheryl's fault? You know, I don't Moren, my pal Moren, you our fellow star on the MK Media Network, Callahan, she would beg me right now to make the choice, the point that her reporting is that Cheryl and RFKJ got together when he was still married to his previous wife, Mary, I think her name was,

who was having severe, you know, mental issues and she was basically being driven crazy, I think, in part, according to Moren, by some of Bobby's actions. And so Moren is very unforgiving of Cheryl too because look there is that old saying you lose them how you get them.

You lose them how you get them. So it and there's another report that Ryan Liza was with somebody else when he got together with Olivia. So once again you lose him how you get him. I don't know whether this is true. That's that is in the news today that he allegedly people on Twitter are saying you can't play the victim. You cheated with her on somebody else. Forgive me. and Ryan Liz, I do not know whether that's true, but uh that's what the folks are saying. If you deny that, we'll report that, too. So, this is a very todry mess. But Olivia has just gotten rehired by Vanity Fair to write for them. And she's also releasing what appears to be a sort of memoir called American KTO. C to O. She's moved to LA. She was in DC. She's moved to LA and she was in New York for a time too.

And this is this book sort of juxtaposes between her life as a political reporter on the trail covering Trump covering all you know these big presidential races and her obvious allegations that she had an affair with Bobby Kennedy which by the way I've got to just be honest I buy entirely. I really have zero doubt it happened. For the record, I have to tell you, he's denied it. But it's just ridiculous. It's so detailed. Like, she'd have to be a true lunatic to say all this because she would get sued so quick quickly for defamation. And if he were innocent, he would sue her. If you think of it, if you're Health and Human Services Secretary and you're a married man and somebody's coming out reporter saying all these things with you and not a word of this is true, you would absolutely sue her. But you wouldn't if it were true and you knew she had your text messages and so on. I don't really care.

I got to be honest. Like I think half the people we have in office right now have probably cheated on their spouses and I just like post me too Emily. I'm kind of like it's their business. It's hard enough to find, you know, great politicians. It's not ideal. It's not something I would choose, you know, like it's wonderful, but like I don't know. I I I've kind of given up on these fights. I used to be much more interested in them and now I'm just kind of like whatever. Can we just find somebody who knows how to govern? And I mean that for Democrats, too. I don't think it's great. I certainly don't like when somebody holds themselves up as a paragon of virtue like Doug Mhof and then we find out that they've got this kind of a history. Like, please spare me your moralizing.

Okay, but I'm getting we'll get to the end on what Ryan Lizard just did, which adds a brand new wrinkle to the story in one minute. But what does this say to you, this whole saga? because it's like so many topics that we all and people that we all cover and know of and an industry that we cover and we know of and we're in intimately. Um, and it just like it's all anybody can discuss. So, what are your thoughts on it, EJ? Well, this is obviously a sort of an amplified example of the kind of thing that happens behind closed doors and sometimes not even behind closed doors in Washington DC, in New York, Los Angeles, among very powerful, wealthy people. But, uh, I think everybody understood that this was a messy relationship. Certainly, everybody in DC seemed to understand that this was a messy relationship as it was happening. Ryan Liza had kids. He's much older than Olivia. and it all just

seemed like tornatic the way that they got together and uh carried out their relationship. But uh listen, like where I'm from, this would be these would be people you wouldn't want to babysit your children. These would be people that you wouldn't want, you know, around your your family or kids because the behavior here is just grotesque and sad. And I think, you know, Olivia is talented enough to seem interesting and to sometimes mistake self-indulgence for uh talent. And she definitely has talent, but there's this, I think, permission structure people who want to be great writers sometimes give themselves, which is if you are self-deprecating enough, that's license um to also be very self-indulgent. and the writing in the Vanity Fair excerpt of the book that was released yesterday, it is so overroought. And you could just tell that she wants to be great. And I think that's good that somebody wants to be

great. She's certainly talented. But I also think young women, younger women, um I think Olivia and I roughly the same age have been taught that this pain is in some way and the suffering is some way art in and of itself and is is talent in and of itself. And I just hope she gets better. I hope Ryan Liz's family gets better, but I also doubt that because the arc here seems to be uh going towards something even worse. And based on the allegations that Liza unfolded in the substack yesterday,

I know. I mean, it's like I I don't know. Very clearly Olivia and Ryan Liza did not belong together. Seems very clear this was not a good match. And you know, lots of people handle that bad situation badly rather than getting out of the relationship honorably. They make bad choices which wind up hurting the other person. And I always I'm always hesitant to really like completely go scorched earth again unless they hold themselves up as a paragon of virtue because you never know what the other side is. You know, it's like

in my experience generally somebody does not cheat unless the relationship has really gone bad. Now that that can be very very wrong. Sometimes like really sweet spouses who are very loving and caring and supportive do get cheated on because the other person has got some issue. But you know how do we know on the outside? In any event, look, I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying this is it's complicated to try to an analyze these things from the outside. Okay. So she decides I mean it's very interesting because she she never gave an interview about this alleged affair. you know, it it was all articles about her, but it was very clear, especially on some of like the Page Six reporting, the New York Post reporting, that she was cooperating behind the scenes. You know, you can usually tell as the pictures get nicer of the of the person they're reporting on, you can usually deduce that there's some cooperation.

Um, so in any event, um, her weirdly like her star has kind of risen as a result of it. She's, you know, like her name has been out there. She's kind of painted as a fem fatal. Um, I don't know. There's like intrigue around her. She's stunning. Absolutely beautiful woman. And I think she's very talented. People are mocking the writing because it's a little flowery. Um, but I I think it's very good. I've always enjoyed her pieces. I appreciate some effort in making political coverage somewhat flowery as opposed to just a punch in the face.

For lack of a better adjective, she probably wouldn't like flowery, but you know what I'm saying. She she she works at the rhetorical flare and I'll take a little flare, you know. Um it's it's too much for our friend Charles CW Cook over at National Review who's not a fan, but that's not a surprise to me. He's he's you know, he's English. Um so now she writes this book and the excerpt is in Vanity Fair and we've got some some of it here. Okay, first of all, before we get to what's in here, let's go to the Emily Jashinsky dramatic reading from Afterparty last night.

Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky airs live on YouTube Mondays and Wednesdays at 10 p.m. If you're missing it, you're missing the party. Um, and then you can pick it up as a podcast or YouTube show, so you can still check it out. But anyway, here's just a little clip of EJ giving her dramatic reading full with the black sunglasses that Olivia wears in her photo shoot on um the Vanity Fair spread. Here, watch. I did not like to think about it just as later I would not like to think about the worm in his brain that other people found so funny. I loved his brain. I hated the idea of an intruder therein.

Others thought he was a madman. He was not quite mad the way they thought, but I loved the private ways that he was mad. I loved that he was insatiable in all ways, as if he would swallow up the whole world just to know it better if he could.

Thanks for making me watch that. It wasn't that dramatic. It It was It was, you know, it was a rereading of what she saidful

that and like Well, yeah. Um, she here's one of the opening paragraphs of the excerpt in Vanity Fair that dropped yesterday. I would take a bullet for you. The politician said he always said that. Please don't say that. I said I always said that from his mouth. The bullet theoretical launched the bullet possible. I did not like to think about it about the armed man at his speech or the armed man who broke into his home. And she goes on to set up this relationship in which she cared about him and vice versa. I loved the private ways that he was mad. I loved that he was insatiable in all ways, as if he would swallow up the whole world just to know it better if he could. He made me laugh, but I winced when he joked about the worm that you just referenced, the the brain worm. Baby, don't worry, he said. It's not a worm.

A doctor he trusted had reviewed the scans of his brain obtained by the New York Times. blah blah blah. He he told her he did he did not still have a brainworm or ever as far as we know. Um okay, it goes on. She does talk about what she loved about him, his blue eyes, his her favorite body part of his, which she says was there shouldn't have been a long pause there. I think his nose his nose

and and her favorite of his her favorite of hers which was her lips. Um and then hold on I find this is the part that oh that everybody kind of wants to hear about. Um she writes okay uh she did not care about their 39year-old 39y year age difference. Uh she said, okay, they both they both quote moved through the world with amused detachment and deep sensitivity, contradictions that worked somehow in concert. Uh she writes that despite being sober for decades, Kennedy told her he still uses psychedelics and even smoked DMT, a powerful drug on which people are known to have what feel like near-death experiences. She told him she liked uppers. I told him that I took Adderall and she um she writes that she said I love you only after he said it first. He called her Libby and wrote her poems. He said he wanted her to have his baby.

He promised to take a bullet for her in the part I just read. She uh as the excerpt reads in um the New York Times profile that just dropped profiling her in the book, she loved him. She loved the politician even though she was a political reporter and he was then a presidential candidate she had written about. She loved his eyes blue as the flame. She loved that the sight of something as trivial as a rose could move him to tears. She loved his insatiable appetites and his particular complications and particular darkness.

The they write about a digital affair with Kennedy that revolved around texts and phone calls. The revelation derailed her career, leading to her fire at New York Magazine and a very public explosion of her relationship with Chris Siza. Kennedy tried to brush it off, brush her off, sending her into self-imposed exile in Los Angeles. The book paints a picture of a nation and a personal life for her on fire. She describes the mutual infatuation that consumed her, even if it was never consummated. She's ambiguous in the book, but said in one of many interviews, "We were not sleeping together." But American KTO is far more than bearing witness to Trump world and about how she believes that warped her just as it warped the country. Um, okay.

That's basically the highlights before we get to uh Ryan Liza's response. But I don't know. I am Am I being too forgiving of this affair? I feel like it's a Kennedy. If you married, if I married a Kennedy, I would not be expecting fidelity. I know that's maybe that's wrong. I honestly like especially if when I got together with a Kennedy, he was cheating on his existing wife. Like honestly, I What do people think? I I just like if you're going to marry somebody who's cheated on other spouses and you're cheating with him when you fall in love and then you mar like what do you think is going to happen? You know, it's like some people have these deals. This is not my deal. this is not what I want, you know, for my relationship, my children's relationships. But some people do have these deals where it's either implicit or explicit that they're going to look the other way.

And again, to the point that you were making without knowing what's really happening. I mean, even the book refers to him as just the politician. And so, it's very intimate, but also sort of detached in a way. And we don't have his side fully. We don't have uh the full details. We never could. we we can't go back and you know be in their social circles and know exactly what was going on behind the scenes. Um but I will say I do think um it's interesting that Olivia told the New York Times she kind of demurred when asked whether she had the text messages because RFKJ says this was basically unrequited that she was sending him as you mentioned Megan text messages um sexual types of text messages. is it is hard for me to believe she would do that without uh it being requited uh because what an insanely risky thing to do to a man who is as high-profile and powerful and married. Um but she also told the New

York Times she's like seemed to say she wasn't going to be releasing any of these text messages and that she kind of said maybe she doesn't even have the text messages. And then Liza's story sounds a lot like RF Kennedy Jr.'s story which is that she was texting him all of the time. So again, I just don't know. I genuinely don't know what's true. It's not hard for me to believe on the one hand given uh Kennedy's history, even with his uh deceased wife, that was very public. So it's it's not out of the realm of possibility certainly. Um one other thing I wanted to add though is also that as talented as I think Olivia is, she does moralize and she did a lot in Trump 1.0. And that's part of what bothers me about this story. I I remember the time she held up her phone playing crying migrant children during a White House briefing in Trump 1.0 and the entire media hailed her as like this brave hero. I think as the

administration went on, she kind of like learned to have uh more like detached beeusement and a little bit of fun with it. But uh her and Ryan Liza both are are sort of like anti-ight people uh who have held themselves up as uh you responsible journalists and criticized a lot of people on the right for a long time. So, I also do feel a bit uh irked by the revelations of their their very very very messy and sorted personal lives.

Fair enough. She's she I will say she's always been very fair to me in her writing and her approach. She's never ostracized me and I'm on the right. Like that's rare. That is very rare.

U so I always liked her. I mean she she's definitely farther left than I am, but I don't really care. To me, this is just like obviously she's got a thing for older men. Okay, so before we get to Ryan Liza, it's a dark thing, too. It's a freaking dark thing because that pension led her first to Keith Oberman. Isn't that punishment enough for anything that happened thereafter?

Isn't that the rest of your life? She's Yeah, she's paid her penance for whatever would come later. He's so disgusting. It's amazing. Katie Tur and he as well lived together for years. Who is many Katie Tur?

Yeah. of MSNBC who is many years his junior. They were together for many years and he continues to attack her now publicly. Is so angry about how that ended. I guess she must have dumped him. And now he was with Olivia for four years. Four years. is Emily. The reporting is that he um well and and this is this brings me to Ryan Liza. We knew I think that she was within um I think. Did we? Steve Cracker will let me know.

Steve knows everything. Yeah, there's been rumblings. He said I thought I thought I knew that. I wasn't surprised to learn she'd been but I I didn't remember that they lived together for four years. Four. Um so Ryan Liza, I'll get to Keith Oberman and Ryan Liza now. So Ryan Liza the the he's not exactly the jilted fiance. He's more the cheated on fiance. I think he jilts her or perhaps at that point it was just mutual. I mean it's like but he comes out with this extraordinary piece. Oh, wait. All right. Just one second. My team points out there is something else in her excerpt I need to read. Um, okay.

She writes the following. She she writes, "Like all men, but more so, he was a hunter." Okay. In a literal sense, he used not a bullet but a bird. It was not about a chase. was I don't even actually totally understand that like birds and bees. No. Um it was about not not about a chase but about a puzzle of logic and skill that amounted to a test of his self-mastery. He was the mouse and the architect of his maze. The giver of his own pleasure and torment. He desired. He desired desiring. He desired being desired. He desired desire itself. I understood this just as I came to understand the range of his kinks and complexes and how they fit within what I thought I understood of his soul. All right. Can I say I believe every word of that? I believe he desired. I believe he desired desiring.

I believe he desired being desired. I believe he desired desire itself. That's that's not unusual for a man who's a serial cheater. again, like I don't know what's going on in his marriage with Cheryl, but like just read Moren's book, Ask Not. Um, that many men who are unhappily married feel that. And the reason they don't act on it is because they're not monkeys and they have self-control and they took vows and ostensibly they like Kennedy may have a commitment to their faith, to Catholicism, to doing what is right, what is moral and you know what is honorable. I mean this bill this is why Bill Maher says he never got married because he didn't want to give up passion and desire which he was convinced would go away after a few years of marriage and he and I have had many behind the scenes debates about this where I've urged him to accept from me that that is not something you have to give up when you get married. It's

not it's not the way it was in year one when you're first dating somebody. That's true. but that there can be like total hot passion and burning desire even in my case 20 years into the relationship, you know, and there are all sorts of ways of keeping that alive, which we can discuss in another show. Um, but like she's describing something that is probably real. I get that people think this is kind of cheesy, but it's probably real. And she's still young. I mean, you're young, too. I don't know. Like am I being again too generous to a friend in saying like she may have been swept away by this desire from a Kennedy presidential candidate in a way in particular a younger woman might fall for like this he desired desire is unique or real or something new and exciting that's like literally every man

no I don't think I mean it's it's entirely believable that she would have been about 30 years old at this time maybe even a little younger than that and the power imbalance. I mean, we talked about that throughout Me Too, but the power imbalance in a situation where you have this like swaggering historic figure in Bobby Kennedy. Um, and I'm not saying Olivia fell prey to any like predatory situation. I'm just saying there's something some

And she doesn't say that. No, not at all. It's there's just something that, you know, there's there's something romantic and seductive from her perspective clearly in the writing about being approached by somebody that famous and powerful, mythical, who wants her. So yeah, I mean I think Kennedy is probably very aware of the effect that he has on women just by virtue of being a Kennedy. I think every Kennedy is very aware of that and Olivia is clearly through this writing you can see taken in by the mythology of all of it. Uh and you could probably put any random like 27year-old in her shoes and uh you would get the same result.

There's I think a 39year age difference between them. I mean like it's something massive. It's it's it is clearly it's a thing where she likes the older men a lot because truly like I'm 20 years younger than RFKJ and I mean I there's zero I'd be like of course he's married and I'm married but like I I I wouldn't date somebody 20 years older than me at all. By the way, just a word for dating somebody your own age. I just want to put that on the record. Something wonderful about dating somebody your own age is that you age together. like you cross, you know, new barriers together, new new big birthdays to together, but you they also know all of your o your references. I've said this before, but I really mean it. Like if I make some stupid joke about '8s music or even like songs of the 70s or sitcoms or, you know, what happened in the '90s, my husband knows all of them. We we both crack up, you know. We we grew up in the

same movies. Not long ago, we were talking about something and about somebody who had jumped some crazy uh amount of distance and I said to Doug, "Guy did a Peter Pan right off this bridge." And he knew immediately what that was in the audience. Do you know what I'm talking about there? Are you are you do is anyone getting the movie? Um you can write to me if you know what it was. It's Megan Kelly.com. The point is there's real joy in having those shared references. I we laugh 10 times a day based on one of these things. I just think it would be very different. But there are especially a lot of young women who like older men. And I don't know if it's a daddy issue. That's probably something for a psychiatrist, not for me. But Olivia definitely this is her type because that brings me to Chris.

Wait a minute. Not Chris. Ryan Liza. Chris Liza is disgusting and not Ryan Liza and definitely not somebody who Olivia would date. Um,

well, so Ri Well, I know. I mean, hard to say. I don't He's too gross. She would never. But, okay. So, Ryan Liza decides upon the excerpt of this thing being published in Vanity Fair to finally really speak out about this, which he really hasn't so far. I mean, Olivia did give a couple of minor interviews just to sort of salvage her reputation when this was all happening to her, but she did. She hadn't done the big in-depth thing like she just did with the New York Times and the excerpt to Vanity Fair. So, now Ryan Liza has had about enough of this and he decides on um he left Politico during this whole scandal and he decides on his new it's not Substack. It's a publication I hadn't actually yet heard of. What's it called, Steve?

Telos. Oh. It is his substack, but he just calls it Telos News. What does that mean? Telos. Is that a Spanish reference? I don't even know what that is. What is Telos? T L O S. It's Latin. Oh, I'm I went to public school. I They don't understand.

I I can't tell you what it means. Okay. Well, in any event, I'll ask my kids. They're in private school. They know they know Latin or at least a few words. I knew I learned a few in law, but not enough. Okay. So, he is like, "Okay, It's time for me to pick up my pen because I'm a writer, too. And here's what happens. Uh, the New York Post is writing this up. They say, um, Liza, well, I mean, I read his piece, so actually, we don't need to I have it here. Standby. We don't need to rely on the New York Post, though. They did good do a good write up of it. Where is it? I have so many papers. Maybe I left it in the other room. My god.

I like how they went to the overhead camera so we can see all of your papers. Like there's so many like there's so many affairs to keep track of. I I don't have it all. Okay. In any event, I guess I left it back in my other room, but I do have uh the the write up on it and my team's write up on them. Okay. Um he he writes about how early on in their relationship he helped her out of a jam with Keith Oberman whom she had dated. It's the the way he words it in his piece is a little weird. It almost makes it sound like she she cheated on him with Keith Oberman, but that's not it.

She dated Keith Oberman when she was very young, like 20, 21, um, and like new to New York, and lived with Keith Oberman, or at least he paid for her studio apartment. And, um, points out like he spent lavished thousands of dollars upon her. Keith Oberman is now gleefully confirming all of this, saying, "Oh, I was making tons of money at the time. We were together four years. That's four birthdays, four Christmases, four anniversaries. What was I supposed to get her? like a a a a you know pl a Kmart gift card, you know, like, okay, you're super important, Keith Overberman. But I'm not going to lie, him actually being Olivia Nuzie's boyfriend for four years does make him slightly cooler than I thought he was.

Um dude's got game. So he's out there. He's enjoying every second of this. And uh Ryan Liza writes about how she came to him, Olivia did, and is like, "Please help me, you know, clean up this mess that I made with Keith Overberman." And he did. I'm not exactly sure how they needed to do it, but he she needed to get away from him. She didn't like Keith Overberman when all was said and done. What a shock. And uh he helped her clean up that mess. Do we still have Emily? Did we lose her? Uh oh, we lost Emily. Oh my god. Who is it? Keith Oberman. He's interfer This is This is the part where it just gets good for Keith Bberman. All right, we're going to get her back on, but she knows the story. So, I'm going to continue reading for the listening audience. Um, okay. And then Ryan Liza writes as follows, that there was a period in their relationship where he uncovered a secret love letter on hotel stationary

after she returned from covering what he thought was just the presidential race in 2020. She was on the road. He thought she was just doing like presidential politics coverage. and he finds a secret love letter she began to pen but did not yet complete on hotel stationery. Um, and it was not addressed to Ryan. It was addressed to someone named Mark. Um, it went on to like have some kind of corny lines like quote, "If I swallowed every drop of water from the tower above your house, I would still thirst for you." She had written in this note dated March 5th, 2020. According to Liza, their home, he noted, had no water tower. Oh god, this is so to so sad. Why do we know this? We Why are we knowing any of this? Uh he wrote that another page named the recipient of the letter as Mark, which is not his name, which he said confirmed what he feared, an alleged physical relationship with someone other than himself. by

early 2020 2020 he Ryan and Olivia had signed a contract to write a book on the presidential race he says uh but Newsie was busy spending more and more time on the road uh including in South Carolina which he believed was for reporting instead Liza now claims uh that she quote secretly followed this particular man on the campaign trail to pursue him allegedly sending him explicit photos and messages while telling Ryan Liza that she was quote dealing with the crisis concerning her sick mother. He says she admitted to him that the relationship with this man intensified, ultimately leading to a sexual encounter at his home the night she went dark and stopped answering messages uh from Liza.

And he finishes his piece. standby uh by phoning his agent and delivering the news. Quote, "We have a big problem," he recalled telling the agent, quote, "Olivia is sleeping with Mark Sanford." Mark Sanford was a presidential candidate back in 2020 who made news because he was caught cheating on his wife with a different woman, which became the big story. remember he went like hiking with her on like some Argentinian trail or something. I can't remember the details, but it was like it was all over the news and it he had been considered a front runner and then it just killed his chances, but back in 2020 people weren't responding to this kind of news the way Trump did. You know, it was like fake news, screw everyone. And then people looking the other way, like pretending not to believe it. Um it it really did mess up his campaign. And now it turns out according to Ryan Liza that Olivia too

was having an affair with Mark Sanford and at a time he alleges she has not yet responded to this. So we'll find out whether she denies this at a time when she was covering him. And indeed if you look back she did profile Mark Sanford. Uh there are pictures of it. And um Ryan Liza says at this time she was either in the midst of or beginning an affair with him and went on to continue covering him and um she was sleeping with her subject which is a very clear journalistic no no that is not okay by any any anyone's measure. Um he asks how could we write a book about the presidential campaign if Olivia had a sexual relationship with one of the candidates and they didn't write that book though I think by 2024 when they broke up over the alleged Kennedy affair they had once again decided to write a book together like they patched things up after Sanford stayed together and once again had decided to write a book together which

once again had to be shelved because again she was covering RFKJ and allegedly fell in love with him. Well, she says she fell in love with him and began this via text affair. She claims again RFKJ is suggesting though not that explicitly that she's some sort of a psycho stalker who like developed a fixation on him after one profile of him. Okay, that's where things are now. Emily, she's back with us. Um, so how do the Ryan Liza revelations about Sanford and this allegedly being a pattern change things? Because I will tell you, there's now a push by Twitter, by X for her to lose this the gig she's now got at Vanity Fair. They want they want her to be punished for all of this.

That's really what they want that more than she already has been. She already lost her job at New York Magazine.

Well, I think that's dumb. I mean, she's an essayist. I think her title with Vanity Fair is West Coast correspondent, something like that. And uh she's she's an essaist. If she's not covering like the daily Tik Tok of Capitol Hill and campaigns and and politics as someone who's like breaking news, uh then, you know, she's just going to sort of cover politics from a a literary perspective, which I'm assuming is what the gig is going to look like. uh then you know if she's writing in first person new journalism style by all means like let's we should be begging her to continue writing at this point because she's giving so much. Um but Liza I found just his his revelation which he also wrote he wrote in this like over wrought pros where he's talking about tinkering in the garden and tending to his bamboo and cleaning up Olivia's mess.

He's really upset about the bamboo in the garden. He tried TO PULL IT OUT PULL IT OUT. Pull it out and he keeps regrowing. I mean, you know, these are the types of people who just like love m making like I don't know I I the these are the types of people that think very highly of themselves and Liza is the type of person here who thinks he is coming across in a way that repairs his reputation but actually it is so profoundly unmasculine uh to to treat a

not I mean to treat a woman that you were with this way to talk about how you didn't really want to get engaged to her. You just wanted to live with her and test her out. And then to uh say, well, you know, Olivia started this. I was going to be quiet about all of it. We agreed to be quiet about all of it. Uh and then to go spill all of these details and to be the one who nobody would have known about Mark Samford if he hadn't written about it. you like to to be the man and to be the person who has to tattletail on this younger woman that you were in a relationship with despite having children and a family you were living with her and to blame her I mean it just it doesn't make him come across better it makes him uh come across like a narcissist and immature and there's something like deeply unmasculine about it so I thought the substack was was helpful to that effect in uh giving us some insight into how he

conducts himself Not to mention all of the men on X that I have read today are like, "Dude, this is not something you want to admit about yourself that she had this affair, that you stayed with her, that she had yet another affair, you know, like this isn't this it's not it's not great. I understand that point, but like in his defense, I'll defend him. Um, I think he's feeling extremely angry and betrayed because he did forgive her clearly that first time and I'm sure it was painful to read the excerpt. He read it with a very different eye, I'm sure, than you and I did and did not appreciate, you know, the top they're talking about her having RFKJ's baby and what she loved about him, his eyes and his nose and how he said he'd take a bullet for her and how his desire. I mean, can you imagine if you were her fiance? the anger that would be surging through your veins in reading that. Now, he says he's with another person now and

that this new gal is great and and he loves doing the Substack and that's all good for Ryan, but I'm sure his anger led him to just say, "Fuck it. It's on." Like, I'm going to drop the bomb that I've been withholding, which is because this really it does change things. I mean, honestly, it does change things to find out it's it's a pattern if it's true that like this is the second presidential candidate that she's covered and slept with at the same time. Like, I'm not saying it's great to to do it once. Um, for the record that I've never slept at the source. Just want to make sure I I'm not making excuses for her because this is something like trust me, I I' I've never slept at the source.

Um, but it's one thing like affairs of the heart, people are unhappily married, but like a pattern, you know, and especially with like the older man thing. And it's like I see the point people are raising, which is like

how could you employ her as a politics reporter at this point. She is, as you point out, West Coast editor for Vanity Fair, which seems fine, and I don't think for one second she should lose that position.

Yeah, I agree with that. And I mean I just the the sad part of this is Olivia did lose her father pretty young and you know her also claim to fame was parlaying a gig on the Anthony Weiner campaign an internship on the Anthony Weiner campaign into uh a big yeah into a big essay. And so it just seems like she's been through a perfect storm of uh like personal and political and professional uh pain and weirdness. And I get that's sort of the poetry that she's trying to uh come across that that she's trying to make come across in the book u even calling it American KTO.

this idea that uh her personal story has been woven with this really crazy decade interwoven with this really crazy decade plus in American politics in a a somewhat um interesting and and instructive way but but also I mean it's definitely there there's clearly something that personally is creating a a pattern and that's I hope that she gets help for that because it's replicated itself a number of times now in a way that's uh brought it has hurt other kids I'm I'm sure Liz's kids have been really hurt by this. I'm sure Liza has been really hurt by this. And nobody deserves that.

It sounds like he hurt them and then they got more hurt. I don't know. I I think even Liza is 10 years older than she is, right? Overman, who was like decades older. Liz is at least 10 years older. RFKJ is almost 40 years older. Um,

Sanford is a lot older, too. Like I I don't know. Somebody, I think it was Charles EW Cook, tweeted out uh or somebody tweeted out a picture, a headline of like Olivia Nzy uh in in the White House with Trump and like three other figures and he just wrote wrote, "Uh oh, it was just which was funny." But look, I I what I would want and look, she doesn't need my advice but Olivia has tons of raw talent and she's got a very bright future. This is a dark chapter, but she she's going to be around as a political writer for a very long time. And I would love for her and all young writers coming up and young reporters coming up to realize that the the best and really only way to make your name in this industry is through your talent. I mean, it's just it's the best and really only way to rise up and sustain a career in this industry. And you know, the more distractions like this, part of it is life at people

aren't they're not perfect. They make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes, if you're a public figure, make news. And sometimes when the news is about you and it's so loud you feel like you have to say something. I think that's kind of the position she was in here. But it's not something you want to dine out on at all. It's something you want to move on from quickly. And, you know, with any sort of PR crisis like like this one, it's probably just best to own it. Own it all. own it early and move on because it's not a fake news controversy. It's a real controversy. You know, she admits this happened. So, it's like, okay, I mean, I will just say like when involved in fake news controversies, I have learned at the ripe old age I am, don't give them any oxygen because that's exactly what your detractors want. They want nothing more than for you to spin your own wheels on their nonsense about you. It took me 55 years

as of today. Uh, but I finally figured that one out, EJ. So hopefully the young girls coming up behind me and guys for that matter can learn that it's your birthday rather than later.

It's my birthday. Happy birthday. This story couldn't have come at a better time.

Thank you so much. Well, look, I guess at my ripe bold age, what I wish for all these people is healing, actual love, wellness, and bright careers that come from the tip of their pens instead of any other tip. any others. Oh my god, that was that was beautiful. Uh I mean like what like 30% of romantic comedies comedies at least the protagonist is a female journalist like how to lose a guy in 10 days like you go down the line. And so I think there's an archetype that especially like millennial women uh and probably Gen X too saw in movies and in television where there's this troubled journalist who creates great art and writing out of personal struggles and it's all interwoven. And so I think it's it's very easy for people to get caught up in the romance of of all of that. So I hope that this has been a a colossal lesson for Olivia Nuzzi, too.

Yeah. Honestly, I I think you're right about that. She she actually is getting dragged right now on X because she in 2015 tweeted out a screen grab from some film or movie or or a TV show that had a reporter sleeping with a source and she captioned it to the effect of why does Hollywood think female reporters all sleep with their sources?

I know. I was like oh well that did not age well. May like maybe it gave an idea. I don't know. But like here's the other problem. Like I said up top, she's stunning. So, she'll have a lot of options, you know, like that. But look, having come up through this industry, you know, I've been in news now, I don't know, I got in in 2004, 2003, so over 20 years. Um, you will have opportunities. You You will It's a dirty, sleazy, sometimes sexy business. And you put in long hours. There are lots of hotel rooms. There is an imbalance of power where very rich powerful men will definitely desire the younger anenu reporter and you really have to know what your moral compass is going into it. You know, you have to understand who you are, what you will and will not do before any of that starts because you know once you head down that path sort of trying to inadvertently blow up your life professionally like in the industry

that you've chosen to be in and you want to make a name for yourself in it is hard to recover. It's going to take a long time. You can you can do it though. Like I I think she will come out of this because she is talented. If she sucked and she didn't have any writing talent and reporting chops, which she does, she wouldn't. But she does have those gifts. So, I think the money's on her. I don't think this is going to hurt Kennedy at all. I don't know what's going to happen between Kennedy and his beautiful wife, Cheryl. It's probably not great. The the details make it tough to deny, but like I said at the top, who the hell knows what's in somebody's marriage compact and what they're willing to overlook in the name of I don't know what, you know, I don't know, calmness, peace, and serenity in one's life. Um, there are some women I know who choose to look the other way when they know their spouses

are cheating because they just they have kids. What are they just they kind of feel like men are dogs? You know that some people have that in their heads. I I hope that's not your future, Emily. And I'm damn sure it's not mine.

I'm pretty sure it's not mine either. All right, lady. We're going to take a quick break and we're going to come back with some actual news as opposed to just news about the news reporters. And that will end today's edition of Days of Your Lives. Ever read the label on a typical bag of chips? It's often a science experiment of seed oils, MSG, artificial dyes, and mystery ingredients. Masa is part of the growing movement to bring back real food. Masa's chips contain just three ingredients: organic corn, sea salt, and 100% grass-fed beef tallow. Not only do these chips avoid the bad stuff, they also taste incredible, too. Snacking on massive chips is nothing like eating regular chips. With Masa, you feel satisfied. You feel light, energetic with no crash and no bloat. And if you love Masa, then you will love Vandy Crisps, too. Vandy, Masa's sister company, makes the most delicious threeingredient potato chips, too. Ready

to give Masa or Vandy a try? Use code MK for 25% off your first order at masach.com or vandy crisps.com. Or simply click the link in the video description or scan the QR code to claim this delicious offer. Don't feel like ordering online? Masa and Vandy are now available nationwide at your local Sprouts supermarket. Stop by and pick up a couple of bags before they're all gone. All right, let's go. Isn't it great to be together? It's so great to see you. You're not alone. It's only the liberal media and the haters who want you to think that. We're in the majority right now. We're from Chicago. We flew in just for this.

I was like, we have to go. And then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go. Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megan Kelly Live tour.

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So go get your tickets right now before they sell out. Megan kelly.com presented by Y Refi and SiriusXM. Before we get back to Emily Oh, this is just in my prompter. We have a breaking news video. Oh boy.

From one astronaut to another, happy birthday, Megan Kelly. What? Have you been?

Okay, that's clearly AI and I I appreciate that. I have been. Actually, I've been. Yes, I just like Gail have been. Except I didn't have to uh ruin my career in order to get those accolades and then shame everybody for not seeing me as a heroin. Um, okay, let's do some hard news. Yesterday on this program, we had Glenn Greenwald and we were talking about the news that Tucker broke on Friday that Miranda Divine matched and then advanced on Monday about Thomas Matthew Krooks, the Trump shooter, the guy who shot Trump at Butler, Pennsylvania, killed Cory Comparator and shot two others. They reported that Krooks had a very large online footprint, that he had been getting increasingly violent in his rhetoric for the two years prior to Butler, Pennsylvania, that he had been firmly on the right for half of that time and then almost like a switch flipped, went over to the left and started to sound more

like an MSNBC host and then beyond that with his violent violent rhetoric and calls for hurting people and his hatred of Donald Trump. And then Miranda advanced the story by reporting that he also was part of the furry culture, trans furry culture, that he was using pronouns uh they them like non-binary stuff and was into furries just like we've seen with the Charlie Kirk accused shooter with the Asention Minneapolis school shooting and so many others. is the one in Nashville, P, uh, Tennessee. We could, I mean, we would be here for a long time, like more than 10 now. We've seen either a trans ideology, a non-binary, or a furry ideology pop up.

And we speculated on the show that maybe Miranda got her sourcing from the FBI, which wanted to like maybe change the conversation from what Tucker dropped. She clarified with me on Twitter yesterday on X yesterday. That's wrong. and she outed it how she got the story pretty openly saying I got it from the same source Tucker Tucker got it from. So the same person apparently went to Miranda and Tucker and uh they both gleaned various facts from the reporting and came up with these stories and Miranda was clear to point out publicly on Twitter the the reason it wrankled her is because she wrote all I've ever gotten from the FBI including under Trump is gaslighting and stonewalling and occasional irate phone calls. So, it definitely was not the FBI who gave her the story. She said, "The leadership of the FBI has been nothing but hostile."

So, wanted to clarify that. And then also add a third reporter who got this same leak from this same source, independent journalist Brianna Mel, who advanced the story by reporting that this shooter had quote multiple deviant art accounts that she says are potentially associated with Thomas Krooks. One such account prominently displays they them pronouns. Um, a secondary account under the username the pick microwave has since been deleted, but its contents remain viewable. The account contained eight original artworks created by the user, all of which were overtly violent and depicted individuals being shot, beaten, or covered in blood. There's one example with like a cartoon figure with a yellow face and a blue shirt holding a rifle and two people clearly dead and shot on the ground. We're showing it for the watching audience uh right in front of them. She also reports Crooks allegedly

opened a PayPal account under the alien the alias Rod Swanson. Important note that name Swanson may have been inspired by former FBI senior agent Rod Swanson. Uh the former FBI employee was the chief of investigations for the state of Nevada during the 2017 Vegas mass shooting. He also had a Gab account under the uh the name Epic Microwave. Uh and there he posted a series of pro-lockdown anti-Trump messages. This dovetales the Tucker reporting. Um, more and more there are questions about what the FBI knew and what they didn't know. Um, whether this stuff was offered to them and whether they took it, were interested in it, and did anything about it. Right?

This reporter, this person who went to Tucker, Miranda, and Brianna, like, did that person go to the FBI as well? Did they review the files? Do they think this was interesting? And why aren't they briefing us on this at all given that Krooks is dead and the investigation appears to be over?

This is unfathomable. I mean, the fact that none of this information has been made public, that the FBI has not once come out and said, there's also evidence, uh, substantial evidence, by the way, from from, uh, Kicks's posting history of him flipping to the left and then posting openly pretty violent musings. That is the fact that we have had nothing on that until a source went to Tucker Carlson and then to Miranda then to Briana uh with this information according to Tucker which was used with which was gleaned by using private detective tools. So at the minimum of what the FBI would have access to. There are two possible explanations. Neither of them is good. One is that the FBI didn't know any of this which I don't buy. In fact, I think it's likely they probably uh had some of these posts come on their radar before the shooting itself. The second explanation is just that they've been keeping it from the

public for some reason. They claim active investigation that makes pretty much no sense whatsoever. Uh but they have, you know, been very quiet about what appears to have been obviously been known behind the scenes. I mean, I don't buy the first explanation, the first possible explanation that this was not on their radar. Uh, and I I don't particularly understand why they would have any good reason for the second explanation, which is that they've just been sitting on this information about potential they them pronoun use. Not potential, I mean pretty obvious. Linked to the phone number, linked to the email. Um, it's outrageous. Outrageous furry culture. Yes. And if I'm the family of Cory Comparator and I see the back and forth with the quote Willie Tapis figure that you talked with Glenn about yesterday, someone who is uh linked to what has been designated as a foreign terrorist organization, a

European Antifa group. I'm absolutely furious because it seems insane that the FBI either missed this or has been keeping it quiet. That that is just either way it is unfathomable and infuriating. And why does, according to Tucker's reporting, Thomas Crook's online profile end virtually as soon as he starts corresponding with this William Tis? I mean, if you were going to speculate about it, you might guess they moved the communications to a different forum that's not traceable and not retrievable. You know, maybe they took it over to Telegram or they took it over, I don't know, even to WhatsApp or someplace other than a place that's easy to retrieve because it does he he was posting quite a bit prior to that. So it doesn't track that he just suddenly went silent.

We're talking 700 plus YouTube comments over the course of a couple of years. That is not a limited social media profile, which is what or a limited digital footprint, which is what the FBI said initially. Uh it was and when the FBI initially made comments, they basically said Krooks had anti-immigrant um and an anti-semitic, which clearly he had act like serious anti-semitic posts. And that's what they were public with. So when the FBI publicly said that, are we to believe they only saw the first half of his digital footprint and not the more recent stuff by the time he committed the shooting, um, that was completely left-wing anti-Trump. I mean, that's also unfathomable. And I went back and looked at the report, the congressional report that was released last December, December 2024, uh, by the task force on this attempted assassination. And they reported something similar to what Miranda as a

journalist experienced, which was, uh, just insufficient cooperation from the FBI. It is in that report. So, this has been going on for more than a year now where even congressional Republicans are frustrated with the FBI. A journalist like Miranda, who is very good on this topic, frustrated with the FBI. So, what are they being so cy about? Uh, none of the possibilities right now seem to reflect well on the FBI.

I I want to give them the benefit of the doubt because I haven't spoken to them and they've always been very good to me. And so, I you know, they they're the ones they they helped us out. They broke the news of the rest of the manifesto of the Nashville shooter. We broke that. You know, Steven Crowder had gotten his hands on it originally and did amazing reporting early on. And then we got the rest of the story and the FBI was not shy. This Trump's FBI, Cash and Dan, not shy about calling out the trans ideology of that shooter. They they weren't shy about it in the Minneapolis shooting.

So, like I don't get why this would have been ostensibly a secret in the case of the Butler shooter. You know, maybe it's that they weren't able to actually verify it. you know, like neither Tucker nor Miranda nor Brianna are saying like definitively we could swear to it in a court of law it's 100% Thomas Krooks and his social media, but it seems clear that it is like they've gotten us one stop short of that. Um, so maybe that's the FBI's hangup, like they're the FBI and they can't say it publicly unless they have it like they've got it nailed.

I don't know. But the whole thing there should just be an openness. Like ideally Cash will give an interview or Dan will give an interview where they just answer the questions about this and say we did know or we didn't know and this is why we can't run with that. You know they they have a different standard for reporting than those of us in the podcast world do and that I understand too. So

put a pin in it. More to come. And of course this was the Biden FBI. So that I mean it's possible that they're still like raking through the muck of the Biden FBI and trying to get to the bottom of of what happened themselves.

I guess so. Just it's hard to believe there's a bigger case to to look through at the FBI than the Butler shooter, the guy who tried to take out Trump. Like Trump's now president, there's more reason than ever to figure out who did it. And if there's somebody else behind it, we need to know that ASAP. Trump's not like less controversial today than he was in July of 2024 and certainly not less powerful. So, I don't know that I don't know. Okay, let me keep going because there's other news to get to. We talked also with Glenn yesterday about how JD Vance is now getting attacked. Of course, he's going to be even worse than Trump. Trump, you know, was he really a racist? But JD Vance is definitely a racist. He's an anti-semite. He's associated with Tucker Carlson, who everybody knows is an anti-semite and a Nazi. Mark Leavvin told me so. Um, and they're trying to like wrap that around JD Vance now because they're friends and

he hasn't condemned Tucker. You're a long time waiting. He's never going to condemn Tucker. I hate to disappoint Tucker's critics. Mark my words, JD Vance will never condemn him because he's not a dick. He is going to stick by his friend. And I don't think JD Vance thinks that Tucker is an anti-semite or believes any of the things that people are saying about him. And he's not going to say something he doesn't believe. Okay. But he is standing up like he's actively standing up for um Tucker's son Buckley Carlson. Now there are two Buckley Carlson's. Tucker has a brother named Buckley who I think is two years younger than he is. And then Tucker named his son Buckley and that son is working for JD Vance in the comm's shop.

And because he's Tucker's son, he's now getting all this pressure on him. He's getting labeled like a bigot. It's crazy the attacks on Buckley Carlson which are totally unjustified and they've they've just decided to pick on on him and pretend he's got positions that he doesn't have and demand that like someone speak out about it. It's like what what so I'll give you an example. There is someone who calls herself a journalist who goes by Sloan Rakmuth and she has decided to according to JD Vance he posted this obsessively attack a staffer in his 20s in JD's office. He's talking about Buckley Carlson because JD goes on she does not like the views of his father. JD goes on to write every time I see a public attack on Buckley it's a complete lie and yes I notice every person with an agenda who unfairly attacks a good guy who does a great job for me. Then this podcast host Daniel Male responds with Mr. Vice President

Sloan Rakmuth asked if Buckley Carlson your employee shares the same affinity for bigotry that his father does. How should we interpret your answer? Um this woman Sloan Rakmuth has been really going after Buckley Carlson as if he's the sitting vice president. It's very unoured and nasty. And um JD goes on this. Sloan describes herself as a defender of Judeo-Christian values. Is it a Judeo-Christian value to lie about someone you don't know? Not in any church I ever spent time in. And then goes on to post this. I have an extraordinary tolerance for disagreements and criticisms from the various people in our coalition. But I'm a very loyal person and I have zero tolerance for scumbags attacking my staff. And yes, everyone who I've seen attack Buckley with lies is a scumbag.

So, good for him. He's amazing. Like taking on these like online smear campaigns. You could argue it's beneath the dignity. I don't think so at all. I think it it restores the dignity of the vice president's office. He's a young vice president. He knows that online does matter in some circles and it can drive narratives about people. And this is a totally innocent young man who's done nothing other than be born to someone the left hates. So good for the vice president for saying, "You keep coming at me. You're going to hear from me."

And and by the way, Buckley Carlson, he used to work for Jim Banks. He is being confused for his uncle who has uh some fiery social media posts. But if you consider yourself a journalist as the Sloan Rakmouth and others do, they immediately, it appeared to a lot of people, immediately conflated or confused, his uncle for him, which is a very easy thing not to do. It just takes a little bit of Googling um before you post and a little bit of verification before you post if you say you're acting uh in a journalistic capacity. And nobody here in DC.

By the way, Emily, by the way, also because if you look up Buckley Carlson, the brother, his his ex bio is like loving uh father, husband, you know, the brother, like clearly Buckley Carlson, the younger, is

all but a kid. He's in his young 20s. He just got out of college. Like he he almost certainly would not have the description that the older Buckley Carlson has. It wouldn't take much to figure out there are two people by that name,

right? And Buckley, the younger Buckley, uh worked for Jim Banks for a while. He's been in DC and nobody in like conservative circles in DC has a bad word to say about Buckley Carlson. Everybody likes uh Buckley Carlson who works for JD. In fact, that's how you end up working for the vice president is that people think you're a good guy and they slot you into that role. So, uh it's just completely ridiculous. And I think part of the reason Vice President Vance has stepped into the mix here is that he recognizes what this is actually about and is nipping it in the bud um because he recognizes that for years to come, as you said, Megan, there's going to be a guilt by association drum beat of attacks on Vice President Vance because of his relationship with Tucker Carlson. And that's what this is actually about at the end of the day.

So then we get Dave Rubin responding to JD Vance with a post that reads, "Mr. VP, I submit this respectfully. You're totally right. Nobody should be judged for their parents' words or actions. But, and I think you know this, the very people relentlessly attacking Jews now have Indians next up on the docket. And that includes your wife, even if she eventually converts to Christianity." So yes, Tucker can interview whoever he wants. His brother can post garbage memes all day and his son who may be just fine can work for the vice president, but I think people are asking you to stand up when you see something evil. While I know you are trying to hold an increasingly fractured coalition together, you were elected to be a leader, not follow the whims of the trolls. And since they eventually will turn on your own family, at some point you might want to get ahead of it. Those are my two cents, and I'll continue to

defend all the good things you and President Trump are doing. something that this crew of people never do. What do you make of that one?

Unfortunate. I mean, really unfortunate. I It's just the vice president has relationships with people, as every single person in the conservative movement does right now, by the way, who disagree with them on the issue that is uh Dave Rubin appears to be talking about right now, uh, which is the question of Israel. And there are some people who believe criticism of Israel from Tucker Carlson's guest guests and some people will say Tucker Carlson himself have flirted with open anti-semitism and then there are people who disagree with that and uh you know I obviously uh disagree with a lot of the overinflation of that label because I think we learned over the last 10 years that when you inflate labels like racists and bigotry uh when people are having good faith disagreements uh you end up cheapening the the word itself which is rightfully stigmatized in the United States of America. We have like

fought people have died uh to make bigotry something that is deeply stigmatized in the United States. And so I think people are allowed to disagree about that of course but uh people find themselves right now in these really fraught personal relationships that they're working out on their own uh behind the scenes and it's obviously much more complicated when you're the vice president or when you're a public figure. Uh but Dave Rubin knows that. Dave Rubin absolutely knows that. And I just think too often it becomes virtue signaling along the lines of the same thing that we saw over the last 10 years from the left. And I I do feel like this post from Dave was a a kind of verging on public virtue signal. Uh and that is the the stuff that's going to needlessly tear people apart.

Yeah, there's definitely a faction of the conservative right that's the more neoconi fashion, the more pro-Israel faction that is turning into BLM 2020. I mean that it's very alienating and it's very not conservative and it's not going to serve anybody well. Not the right, not them. Um it's a pointless exercise because most conservatives will recoil when faced with the choices of like say it say it my way uh rather than get on board. that is just not for us. That was just like that's not how we've operated. It's not like in our DNA. Um so yeah, I agree with you on that wholeheartedly.

The other thing is I don't understand what he's talking about. Like what what do you mean? What not to follow the whims of the trolls? Like what does he mean? I think people are asking you to stand up when you see something evil. What is the evil thing? Is Tucker evil? Because I don't think JD Vance believes that. And he does. He's not required to. You're talking about Fuentes. Here's something that's bothering me. I I mentioned it yesterday. I didn't get to it. If he's implying that JD Vance hasn't said anything about Fuentes, he's wrong. Just as the New York Times Jamal Buouie was wrong yesterday when he said that JD Vance refuses to condemn Nick Fuentes, he has condemned him. He doesn't spend all day every day condemning Nick Fuentes. This guy is a podcaster, but but he has done it. I remembered him doing it and I actually asked my team to pull the clip and here's at least one of them. I think

he's done it repeatedly. Watch in your own movement. That That's what I want to ask about because one of the supremacists who was saying things like this about your family.

Yeah. Nick Fuentes, an avowed anti-semite. Sure. Went after your wife. He had previously dined at Mara Lago with Donald Trump. Does this have any room in your movement in the MAGA movement?

Of course, it doesn't have any room in the magma movement. And of course, you disavow Hammet and this

and of course Donald Trump has criticized this person. Look, I think the guy's a total loser. Certainly, I disavow him. But if you ask me what I care more about, is it a person attacking me personally or is it government policy that discriminates based on race? That's what I really worry about.

Disavow, total loser. That was as recently as August of 2024. What more is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to, as the vice president, like monitor daily the podcast, do a podcast in rebuttal? You know, it's it's really, let's face it, about his friendship with Tucker. That's what it's about.

That's 100% what it's about. And it's not and even beyond that, it's about his willingness to engage with people like Tucker Carlson who are pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable conservative Republican party foreign policy and to ask really deep questions about that. And listen, I actually completely understand as someone who's been fairly critical of our relationship with Israel throughout the last couple of years. Completely understand why the Jewish community in the United States of America is frightened by the growth of Fuentes's platform. I understand that we are within the generation of people who lost family members in the Holocaust.

There are living Holocaust survivors right now to this day and they are very very understandably sensitive especially as the algorithm picks up on uh Fuentes world and all of that and starts churning it out and pushing it in your feed and amplifying it. So completely understand the sensitivities, but uh it it just in the same way that the right asked the left, people on the left, who by the way, there are living survivors of Jim Crow and uh there are people who are reasonably sensitive about racism in the United States, just as the right asked people on that side of this to be uh to to act in good faith and to be, you know, judicious as there were criticisms along the lines JD. advance just made about uh policies made in the name of affir affirmative action that were fully racist and ideas coming out of people like Ibram X Kendi that were fully racist and Robin D'Angelo just as the right was critical of the definition

inflation over the last 10 years there uh we should be demanding the exact same thing of our own side because it only makes situations worse when you impugn people's motives by accusing them of being engaged in actual bigotry rather than good faith criticism. And if you genuinely believe that JD Vance falls into that category, uh, because Tucker Carlson did an interview you thought that was too soft with Nick Fuentes, despite the fact that in the middle of it, he did go in this back and forth with Fuentes about how blood guilt is not Christian. Now, I would have done the interview differently. Uh, but that part I probably wouldn't have done the interview at all actually to be honest, but that part was actually pretty powerful where he's debating Fuentes on on ascribing blood guilt to people because of who they are. and that's now getting attached to JD Vance. I mean, it's just all so it's all so ridiculous

and uh really unfortunate and you'd think that we would have enough distance from the woke movement of the last decade to see to to to recognize some of that when it crops up on the right.

Yeah. I mean, I I feel like Tucker answered this when I interviewed him. You know, I said, "What do you say to the critics who say you should have gone tougher on Fuentes?" And he said, "Do your own interview. I'll give you his cell phone number." Like, go ahead and do it. this. I'm me. I'm Tucker. I do the interviews the way I see fit. That's a totally acceptable answer. If you don't like his brand of interviewing, you don't have to click on his face. Tough right? Like, he's not required to do his interviews exactly the way you require. Clearly, he has a very large fan base that loves the way he does his interviews. Like, if you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to. But he doesn't have to change his interviewing style to appease his critics who, you know, want him to ask exactly the following thing in exactly the following way. Of course, he's not going to do that. and they're like, "Oh,

but he was tough on Ted Cruz. He was tough on Ted Cruz because he he called Tucker an anti-semite within the first four minutes of the interview." That has a way of sending you in into a more offensive posture against your guest. I would have done the same. You know that feeling when you find the perfect gift, the one the person can actually use every single day? That's Cozy Earth. Their bamboo pajama set is unbelievably soft, lightweight, and cool to the touch. It's that rare mix of cozy and breathable, so you never overheat. It can be your go-to for quiet nights at home or weekend mornings. And if you really want to make someone's day, the Bubble Cuddle Blanket is next level comfort. Plush, textured, and ridiculously soft. Whether it's movie night or just winding down after a long day, it's the kind of gift that instantly makes any space feel special.

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She is she's been starring on the well where she did star on the show Succession which is about you know loosely based on the Murdochs and she played a PR agent who kind of was dating Greg the Nerd Dowwell nephew of the the um powerful family patriarch. In any event um she's great she's very talented. She's been in other shows as well. These two were also reportedly the characters that the two daughters in the original White Lotus were based on. There's one daughter who took to it's Connie Britain's character and she and her friend go on a trip with their mom Connie Britain and they're based on Dasha and Anna and it's so amazing because one of those characters was played by Cindy Sweeney. So it's like everything's connected. In any event, she's fascinating, very interesting.

She's from Bellarus and Anna, her partner in crime on Redscare, is from Moscow. They both came over to the United States when they were kids, but they they have a healthy appreciation for authoritarian um countries and crackdowns on free speech and how important it is to say like the most outlandish things and just test the limits of that first amendment. Like great, it's wonderful to be in a place where we can have these very provocative conversations. Well, some who goes, his name is Brown. Is that his full name? I'm reading the Hollywood Reporter piece by Seth Abramovich, which is very good. The guy's name seems to be Brown. He's 36.

He was once an actor. Didn't have a lot of success, but did have a role in 2012's hit comedy Project X. Never saw it. Finding himself disillusioned, writes Abramovich with the acting world. He transitioned to producing, most recently with the comedy horror my son with an exclamation point. Real nice. The title of which drew titters ahead of its premiere. Jonathan Brown. Um, this guy, it turns out, has for years, years now, been trying to get Dasha cancelled. He is emailing relentlessly the agency that represents her in Hollywood. He's been tracking her for years, keeping the agency updated on who she's having on Redscare, why they're too controversial for Polite Company, what she did or did not do during the interview. Um, these, keep in mind, these two were originally Bernie Bro supporters, right? They kind of migrated rightward when the woke left exploded, but they all they were fine with Hollywood when they were Bernie

supporters. Now they come under the microscope because they're not woke. He um continued to email them, to post on Instagram about her, to list their alleged crimes. Meanwhile, it wasn't them saying anything. It was their guests. And he didn't like that their guests said certain things that were controversial. And they were. Um went on to list, oh, they had on Alex Jones. I cannot sit by in silence anymore. I ask you to do the right thing. Condemn this hate. This cannot be what our industry is about. um Steve Bannon, they were outra, he was outraged Steve Bannon was on the show and on and on and on and then like expanded out the people he was targeting including this movie producer who had just cast Dasha in his movie writing be careful she just did a podcast with Nick Fuentes this is in October didn't make any news there was no scandal the way there's been with Tucker bad idea to be associated with anyone who is openly

pro- Hitler. Okay, so what? She's now pro- Hitler because she had Nick Fuentes on. And the producer responds, "Oh, wow. The other producer, this is a quote, is Jewish and is friends with her. I don't know her." When news broke that her talent agency, Gersh, dropped Dasha at this guy, Jonathan Brown's non-stop insistence and harassment. Brown texted the producer again. "I hope you find an excellent actress to replace her." "Yes," responds the producer. "She is being replaced right now." So, her agency and the movie have dumped her.

She so far has declined to comment uh on it other than she retweeted this article I saw and said something like, you know, something like, "Can't can a girl just do a podcast?" Something to that effect. This is insane. So, she's been blacklisted now in Hollywood and with the talent agents because she has a podcast on which she invites controversial figures and they too, Emily, do not like the way she interviews those people.

It's an entertainment podcast. It's not even like a political news podcast. They talk about culture and they talk about politics and foreign policy sometimes, but it's entertainment. They don't purport to be journalists. They don't purport to be like deep moral actors. They're literally just when they remember to turn the microphone on having conversations about like news of the day and pop culture. And I actually feel like I learned a lot about Nick Fentes from the interview that they did with him. Uh because, you know, it was it was a soft interview. Uh I like it it was a they're she's an actress, she's an artist.

They're on an entertainment podcast and they were doing like a human interest piece with Fentes where they're just talking about him, talking to him about why he does this, why he does that. And uh they I think had his guard down more than he has in in other interviews. So I actually thought it was a pretty compelling conversation. Same thing with with Steve Bannon. Now again, you and I are journalists. We act in journalistic capacities. We're not saying that we would do podcasts like Red Scare does podcasts, but they are literally artists. They are not. What's the Camille Pia had a great line during me too where she said the idea of a of an artist as a moral actor is quote a sentimental canard of Victorian moralism. And this idea that

that should go up on our first segment. That's how we should have started this show right before we got into the the affair chapter.

That's right. But it's it's like this idea that people who are it's an Can you say it again? Can you say it one more time? The idea that in I'm paraphrasing the first part, but the the idea that an artist has to be a moral actor is quote a sentimental canard of Victorian moralism. I think she wrote that in the Hollywood Reporter in the middle of the me too movement. I've never forgotten it because it so well describes how the left has tried to shift our expectations of what we see from actors in popular culture. It's one thing to hold a politician to that standard. It's one thing to hold a journalist to that standard, but it gets even more ridiculous when you're holding an actress/podcaster to that standard. And by the way, one quick point on that. Uh there are people who listen to Nick Fuentes who are not actual bigots. And that is one of the interesting things about Dasha who does listen. She's a Catholic convert who

does listen to Fuentes and references Fuentes. You actually learn a bit about the appeal that Fuentes has with some younger non-bigoted people, which again I don't listen to Fuentes. I'm not listening to America First. U it's just not happening. But there are people who do and they are worth understanding uh because they're looking for criticism. My theory is they're looking of of some criticism of the MAGA movement from the right and one of the only places they find it is in Fuentes.

That's such a such a good point. Like it is more important right now to figure out why is he so popular than to just try to cancel anybody who is trying to figure it out, right? Why don't we stop and consider the mission that they're on? Like why is he so popular? Why? And I know of course our Jewish friends are like he hates Jews. Like that's all we need to know. But it's not all we need to know because like there is a growing number of disaffected young men in particular in America who are really deeply unhappy and have been told they're to blame for all of society's ills. and his message is resonating with them. He's he talks about more than than Jews and blacks and women on his show. When he talks about those groups, it's not great. It's not great for any one of those three categories. Um, I can attest to that, but it's not all he talks about. And so, some of his stuff is compelling and it's

very interesting and he says it very well. He's a persuasive arguer. So, I understand the the perceived threat with him. But we what we need to figure out is why. What is it about him? And I think from that standpoint, these interviews do have real value because maybe there really is a need that needs to be filled by somebody for whom the price of admission is not so high, right? Like you don't have to get through all of that bile in order to hear somebody say these other things. And I don't I'm like I'm sick and tired though of like the New York Times saying he's the new Charlie. Like he's filling the void Charlie left. That's all Like no, he's not. Those two couldn't stand each other. Charlie was noble and beautiful and faith-based and a God-loving Christian. Nick Fuentes is not noble and he's not beautiful. He's angry and I understand it and I actually like I forgive him his anger. He clearly

he's had like some bad things happen to him and I get all that. I hope as he matures he understands that it's it's not the right move to blame it on whole groups of people or condemn whole groups because you've been treated wrong whether it's by a woman or a person of color or Jewish person whatever it is he's doing because he does have the shot if he were able to somehow reform those other things of being like a hugely consequential figure. Um and I don't know he doesn't seem to have any interest for now in doing anything on those other fronts. He seems to really revel in alienating those groups and saying the most hateful things possible about them. So any event, okay, so that's enough about him. One question for you. There was um Rod Dreer, is it Dreer? I never know how to pronounce it.

I I really like him, but he's been uh he he's been suggesting that there's as many as 30 to 40% of GOP, Capitol Hill, and White House staffers who are Gropers, who are Nick Fuentes followers. Now, he's not that's not the same thing as the New York Times saying it. The New York Times would say that just to sort of try to like demonize a whole group. Rod doesn't have those motivations. So, I know you've been doing some reporting on this. What have you found?

Yeah. No, I heard that figure. I read Rod every day. I really really appreciate Rod. And he he reported that a DC insider told him as many to 30 to 40% of Gen Z staffers, Republican staffers in Washington DC were gropers. And then he said he talked to about 10 zoomers, Gen Z people when he was in DC recently who all confirmed that number to him. And I mean I've been here for a long time, been involved in the conservative movement, youth movement for a long time, deal with tons of students, have done like literally more than 100 coffees probably in the last 5 years alone uh with students. And so I went to sources I I went to seven sources uh people everywhere from the White House to Capitol Hill. All with the exception of one I would say populist aligned. um nobody older than younish millennial. Uh and everyone was like that number is is crazy which confirmed my suspicion that that number

was way too high. Uh one person an administration source said it's not even double digits. So what's important about that is there are some and Fuentes has made a concerted effort to infiltrate institutions. He says that's what uh his movement is trying to do. So yes, it's true like there there actually are some particularly young men who fall into that category. But I think that's why it's so so so important for people who are commenting on this to always show their work. Uh to tell us how you got from point A to point B. How you said this person is actually an anti-semitic an anti-semite. Tell me exactly what they said, why that is anti-semitic and you know how you got to that point. And the same thing should be done when you're, you know, making claims about who is what because otherwise Fuentes wins if everyone is like, "Yeah, 30 to 40% of staffers are are gropers." And I don't begrudge Rod for saying that. He

had people he's a journalist. He had people telling him that. Um I just question that those those sources are in touch with uh the the actual kind of youth orbit in DC. Because again, like I know people have said, "Why would someone go tell a journalist if they're a groper?" But that's not how this reporting was done. And I was talking to people who would definitely know, younger people who would definitely know um and who I know and trust through good sources, populist sources and even they were like no. So there is some number of people and that's why we have to be extremely careful about it.

I also think that if there are people who are tuning into him because they do have negative feelings about those groups,

right? Like if if it's not his other messaging, if it is the messaging about Jews or blacks or Hispanics or Indians or women, that's important to know to know too.

And the answer to that is not to call Tucker or anybody platforming Nick Fentes or talking about like an anti-semite or a woman hater or a a bigot. the answer is to provide more information to those people and to tr to try to rescue the conversation. In other words, like I don't think creating him as like this boogeyman who can never be platformed or discussed in polite society will help. I think it will only make people more interested in him. And look, as somebody who definitely does not want to see bigotry, misogyny, anti-semitism grow, I think we have to be careful about not behaving so badly that it just gets used against us. Is like, God, you really are awful.

Like these female shrews are trying to shut him down and tell me I'm a bad person for listening, you know? Or because that's what they're doing. They're saying like, "Ah, Jews, didn't I tell you?" you know, and like it's getting used against them because they're trying to silence conversation. So, like I don't even play into it, you know, like you can calmly and effectively say, "Let me tell you all the things that Nick Fentes has said. This is who you're backing. This is who he actually is." I think that's very effective as opposed to like trying to shame people, call names, deplatform, or whatever, delegitimize. Just you don't have to look far to find out what Nick Fentes has actually said about all those groups I listed. It's a long list. He doesn't. It's not just Jews. He hates a lot of groups or at least has hate in his heart for a lot of those groups.

He's not shy about espousing it. Any event, this is that's a question of tactics. Okay. I have one thing I got to ask you about because I know you got to go because you got to prepare for the wrap-up show, but I got to ask you one one thing.

You being a young person and having your finger on the pulse on Capitol Hill of where young men in particular stand right now. Bill Aman, he of the 400 paragraph tweet has weighed in on the plight of young men in America today and he has followed he had he has posted the following on X a couple days ago. I hear from many young men that they find it difficult to meet young women in a public setting. In other words, the online culture has destroyed the ability to spontaneously meet strangers. As such, I thought I would share a few words that I used in my youth to meet someone that I found compelling. I would ask, "May I meet you?"

Who could say no? Before engaging further in a conversation, I almost never got a no. It inevitably enabled the opportunity for a further conversation. I met a lot of really interesting people this way. I think the combination of proper grammar and politeness was the key to its effectiveness. You might give it a try. And then he goes on to say, um, I failed to mention that this works much more effectively when you are, and I thought he was going to say rich,

a billionaire. I'm I'm sure that it's something to do with your success. No, when you are moving in motion on subways, elevators, escalators, etc. So, your thoughts, I don't know why, but your thoughts on Bill Aman's love life advice to men your age. I love when Bill Aman gives unsolicited advice every time and it's usually unsolicited, but that is the best type of advice from Bill Aman is unsolicited. The idea of going up to somebody and saying, "May I meet you with like a $50,000 Rolex on your watch?" Definitely going to work every single time. And that is my impression as to why Billman thinks that this line is so useful. Um the proper grammar part like what is he talking about? Nobody Nobody wants this. Bill Aman. Who told Bill Aman that this? I think it was probably because he was walking around like with a Rolex on and like Gucci loafers and people were like, "You may indeed meet me, Bill." Like this is very

Do you want to like help me like with my investments? Because I also would like a Ro a Rolex. I would like to know billionaires. Um yeah. No, I look I appreciate the thought of like polite politely being the one to reach out, right? Like that I'm in support of. also of a man being the first to sort of knock on the door or be the like initiator. I think we do need to get back to that. I think it's in a man's nature to be the pursuer, you know, to be the lion. And um women need to remember that. That's good for men and it's good for women. Like the men like to pursue and the women like to be pursued and we should get back to that.

That's great. It's a good dynamic. It doesn't have to be that way, but it's good. But I'm not sure may I meet you is the way. I would say something like, you know, wow, you're stunning. Who are you? That that might get a woman's attention, like a compliment or a joke. Something even self-deprecating would something to make a woman making a woman laugh is like a beline to most women's hearts. May I meet you would probably project to me this person's going to be bad in bed. I It's just

That might be where I in my head. You just you just earned yourself like a 4,000word Bill Aman post on X about why he is actually very good in bed and it will be you could expect it to be highly technical. Um but I'm sure that that is forthcoming at this point. By the way, meet people in your social circles. I mean like can't recommend that enough. Like the idea of like going up to a random person at a bar is what people do when they're trying to like sleep with someone, not have a relationship with them. But meeting people in your social circles is a great way so that you can avoid doing the may I meet you line anyway. You can actually just have some built-in trust uh that this person knows that person and that person and you you have some uh social fabric that already ties you together. Just a tip. Just a tip.

Yes. But I do appreciate him trying. I have to say there there really is a crisis with young men and people are not meeting each other. They're not getting married anymore. They don't believe in young women don't believe in marriage according to the latest polls. And so like more guys actually should think of the young men and say for whatever it's worth this is how I did it. And like there will be other nerdy types like Bill Aman for whom that is a nice line and it will work with their personality. You know it's so whatever take it for whatever it's worth. And you know Bill Aman married this completely stunning brilliant woman who I went to MIT. So, it all landed pretty well for Bill Aman.

So, who are we to judge? Emily, a pleasure. We will see you on the after show. Thanks for doing

Thanks for having me. 83344 Megan. Everyone call in. Me eN because many years ago today, my mother Linda was giving birth to me. She had given no thought to how to spell my name. And when I was born, she said she figured obgyn mgn. And that is why you have to call 83344meg gyn to reach Emily on the after show. Yeah. I talked to her this morning. She, as she always does on my birthday, she told me a story about how she went in there to give birth to me. I was the third child. So the doctor said, "Oh, you're going to give birth right away."

You know, like you go to the fast lane cuz you're on three of three. And there were two other girls who were in there about to give birth to their first babies. And they had to go into like the waiting area because they thought that was going to take forever. and my mom went in there on November 17th early in the morning and it was more than 24 hours later that I came out. So, they were wrong then as now I was a late arrival and uh I've been kind of behaving that way ever since. Emily, thank you madam. I don't want to make you late, so I'll let you go.

Thanks, Megan. Good to see you. Happy birthday. You, too. All right. Uh yeah. Okay. We'll keep it rolling here because as you know, Emily's coming up, but we've got a little more news to do before we toss it to her. Okay. What? Steve's talking to me. We only have 30 seconds left in show. Well, we didn't give Emily a lot of time to go prepare for her show. I mean, uh, in our defense, she knows everything that was on the show because she was actually part of it today. Wait, I I really wanted to get to that that s of um on on Bill Maher. Um, Scott Galloway. Let's play it. Where is it? Saut 10. The second worst thing to happen to young people is remote work. Uh one in three relationships begin at work. This is where you find friends, mentors, and mates, and especially young men need the guard rails of a workplace. But in my view, the worst thing that's happened to young people is the anti-alcohol

movement. I've had Huberman on who I'm a big fan of and anti on, and my point is that the risks to your 25-year-old liver are risk are are dwarfed by the risk of so social isolation in some. Think of all the amazing relationships you've had in your life and be honest. Did alcohol play a role in some get out, drink more, and make a series of bad decisions that might pay off?

Yes, I love that. I totally agree with him. Uh it's not that you need to totally booze it up, but alcohol has been so demonized and it really can be a social lubricant, especially at a young age. The New York Times did a very long podcast on this uh two summers ago, and it was actually very illuminating. Um, like we've gotten to be such tea totallers that we're like taking the fun out of everything. You can't have any processed food ever. No candy, no sugar, you can't have a drink or you're going to drop dead and also wind up arrested.

It's like these young men are having a tough time meeting women thanks to COVID and other things. They're not doing a very good job of socializing in a way that leads to love and romance. And by the way, they're not having sex either. That's also been demonized. It's like if they need to have a couple of drinks, no one's talking about getting like fall down blackout drunk, but if they need to have some some drinks, have a good time, they're in c like stop guilting them. Stop guilting them non-stop about what they eat. Stop guilting them non-stop about what they drink and how they live.

They're entitled to a little fun.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "The Nuzzi-RFK Drama, Attacking Tucker's Son to Smear Vance, & New Cancel Culture, w/ Emily Jashinsky"?

In order: 0:00 New York, New York, Damonte Cheryl, Health and Human Services, MK Media; 10:00 New York, New York, Vanity Fair, Adderall, Afterparty with Emily Jashinsky; 20:00 New York, New York, Ask Not, Damonte Cheryl, Katie Tur; 30:00 New York, New York, Mark Sanford, Capitol Hill, New York Magazine; 40:00 American KTO, Damonte Cheryl, Olivia Nuzzi, Vanity Fair; 50:00 X Corporation, SiriusXM; 1:10:00 New York, New York; 1:20:00 Capitol Hill, New York, New York, Washington, D.C., X Corporation; 1:30:00 Capitol Hill; 1:40:00 New York, New York.

What is mentioned in this Megyn Kelly episode?

54 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including New York, New York, X Corporation, Vanity Fair, Damonte Cheryl, New York Magazine, Capitol Hill. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Nuzzi-RFK Drama, Attacking Tucker's Son to Smear Vance, & New Cancel Culture, w/ Emily Jashinsky"?

The episode runs 1 h 42 min; the transcript is about 18,956 words in 167 timestamped sections.

More from Megyn Kelly

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 19, 2025.