Unanswered Questions About Nancy Guthrie Case... Were There TWO People in the Nest Camera Images?

What this episode is about

The investigation into Nancy Guthrie's disappearance raises significant questions, particularly regarding the intriguing Nest camera images suggesting the possibility of two individuals being involved. As tips flood in following a reward announcement, authorities are meticulously evaluating evidence, including eyewitness accounts and neighborhood canvassing, particularly focusing on the last known contacts with the victim, which may provide crucial insights into the case.

Key takeaways

• The $50,000 reward is a double-edged sword; it attracts leads and the occasional wild goose.
• 70% of kidnappings involve someone close to the victim, turning family dinners into potential crime scenes.
• In desolate areas, a body can be hidden anywhere – making every tip a potential breakthrough or a dead end.
• Kidnappers may improvise drastic measures; a frail victim could turn into a disappearing act faster than planned.
• There’s no such thing as a wrong search—every revisit may unveil a hidden clue or fresh perspective.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Megyn Kelly (Guest) · 7 min speaking
• James Hamilton (Guest) · 5 min speaking
• Will (Guest) · 4 min speaking
• Fitz (Guest) · 3 min speaking
• Moren (Guest) · 2 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Nancy Guthrie, Kidnapping, FBI, James Hamilton
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Kidnapping, Nancy Guthrie, FBI, Tucson
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Amazon, FBI, Tucson, Puma County Sheriff's Department
4. 9:00 – 12:00: Kidnapping, Exxon, Nest
5. 12:00 – 15:00: Nancy Guthrie, FBI, Tucson, Kosh Patel
6. 15:00 – 18:00: James Hamilton, Birch Gold Group, Birch Gold Group, YouTube
7. 18:00 – 18:42: Birch Gold Group, Birch Gold Group, Better Business Bureau

Notable quotes from "Unanswered Questions About Nancy Guthrie Case... Were There TWO People in the Nest Camera Images?"

• Ground and continue to look at that story. And, don't forget kidnappings are like we were saying earlier, they're very, very difficult.

  about Kidnapping · at 2:04

• To want to talk about I'd love to talk about it. But, that's what's that's what you're seeing here. I'm I'm shocked that there's a very specialized unit of dogs that the FBI…

  about FBI · at 2:54

• Made, I've negotiated on the return of a dead body. So again, depending on who the group is, I agree with James that yes, if he does have the frail Nancy on his hands and she…

  about James Hamilton · at 4:07

• Heard this mentioned at all by anyone in the media, and I've been to Phoenix a few times. I'm not sure Tucson.

  about Tucson · at 5:50

• Those gloves. Moren, the backpack and the gun visible on the Nest video. We're told authorities are contacting manufacturers and retailers to figure out who may have purchased…

  about Nest · at 6:45

• On Amazon. So even someone named Brian Colberger was brilliant in some ways, but like made such elemental mistakes.

  about Amazon · at 7:46

• Let me ask you, Will and James, what you think is ran this by our other panelists yesterday. There's one photo in the series that's been released by Cash Patel that shows we think this same abductor farther back without the backpack.

  about Kosh Patel · at 14:08

• Reasons smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings into precious metals with Birch Gold Group. Gold can thrive during uncertainty, which is why it's a crucial part of…

  about Birch Gold Group · at 17:41

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Nancy Guthrie — Person · Victim / missing person central to the case discussion · 4 mentions · first at 1:28
  The panel analyzes investigative steps, suspects, and evidence related to her disappearance/kidnapping.
  From the fact that they keep going back to Annie and Tomas's home and neighborhood? Nancy had eaten dinner with them that night, allegedly played games, and was dropped off…
• James Hamilton — Person · Panelist / investigative commentator · 2 mentions · first at 1:20
  Explains why investigators focus on last-known witnesses and evaluates whether images suggest one or multiple suspects.
• Brian Colberger — Person · Referenced suspect example (comparative case) · 1 mention · first at 7:46
  Used as an example of how perpetrators make traceable purchasing mistakes (e.g., buying a knife on Amazon).
  Event, they of course are going to do that because we saw in Colberger, as clever as he was in some ways, he bought that damn KBAR knife on Amazon.
• Sydney Riso — Person · Referenced kidnapping victim (comparative case) · 1 mention · first at 5:10
  Cited as an example where kidnappers continued negotiations after the victim died, informing discussion of 'proof of life'.
  We brought up Sydney Riso. I did early last week. The Exxon executive. He died 4 days into his captivity. Those kidnappers kept it up for 50 plus days after that trying to get the money.
• Kosh Patel — Person · Referenced source (released images) · 1 mention · first at 14:49
  Mentioned as the person who released a photo series used by the panel to analyze the suspect’s appearance (backpack/no backpack).

Companies & orgs

• FBI — Company · Investigative authority · 4 mentions · first at 0:03
  Primary law enforcement agency involved in the kidnapping investigation
• Puma County Sheriff's Department — Company · Investigative authority · 1 mention · first at 6:37
  Local law enforcement collaborating with the FBI in the kidnapping investigation
  We predicted this and now it hits via TMZ that the FBI and Pima County Sheriff's Department are homing in on the outfit the presumed kidnapper wore as he approached the front door.
• Exxon — Company · Case study · 2 mentions · first at 5:12
  Referenced in the context of a historical kidnapping case involving an executive
  We brought up Sydney Riso. I did early last week. The Exxon executive. He died 4 days into his captivity. Those kidnappers kept it up for 50 plus days after that trying to get the money.
• Nest — Company · Evidence source · 2 mentions · first at 6:48
  Provider of video footage used in the kidnapping investigation
• Amazon — Company · Investigation lead · 2 mentions · first at 7:40
  Potential source of purchase for items used in the kidnapping
• Better Business Bureau — Company · Endorsement · 1 mention · first at 18:14
  Organization providing credibility to the sponsor Birch Gold Group
  989898 to receive your free info kit on gold. There's no obligation, just useful information. With an A+ rating from the Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy…

Concepts & topics

• Proof of Life — Concept · Key argument · 1 mention · first at 4:31
  Critical concept in kidnapping cases to confirm the victim's survival
  Element behind it, they may still continue to negotiate against that for the return of it. I think the key issue here really is the proof of life or lack thereof of Yeah.
• 70% rule — Concept · Strategy · 1 mention · first at 3:31
  Statistical rule used in kidnapping investigations to focus on close relations
  Learned kidnap and ransom negotiation was the 70% rule, and it still prevails to this day. and that is this that in most kidnappings if this is indeed a kidnapping in 70% of…

Places & events

• Kidnapping — Event · Core topic · 5 mentions · first at 2:22
  Central theme of the episode, discussing the investigation and implications of a kidnapping case
• Tucson — Place · Setting · 3 mentions · first at 5:55
  Location where the kidnapping occurred and the investigation is focused
• Oslo — Place · Historical reference · 1 mention · first at 4:54
  Location of a past kidnapping case mentioned for comparison
  Last known kid and I'll touch on a few subjects and I'm going to be corrected here, but the last known for-profit kidnapping of which we are aware took place in the outskirts…
• Highway — Place · Investigation lead · 1 mention · first at 0:38
  Potential location of interest in the kidnapping investigation
  Get a whole bunch of other tips. For example, you're going to get phone calls saying, Hey, on the day after she disappeared or late that night, I was driving by Highway and…
• Phoenix — Place · Reference · 1 mention · first at 5:53
  Mentioned in the context of geographical knowledge by a speaker
  Thing I'll throw out there, I haven't heard this mentioned at all by anyone in the media, and I've been to Phoenix a few times. I'm not sure Tucson.
• Syracuse — Place · Personal reference · 1 mention · first at 7:20
  Speaker's hometown mentioned in passing
  A face mask that you know you wear that where I grew up in Syracuse, New York, that's everyone's got one. But in Tucson Yeah.

Media & podcasts

• TMZ — Media · Media outlet · 1 mention · first at 6:26
  Source of investigative updates on the kidnapping case
  We predicted this and now it hits via TMZ that the FBI and Pima County Sheriff's Department are homing in on the outfit the presumed kidnapper wore as he approached the front door.
• YouTube — Media · Platform · 1 mention · first at 16:36
  Platform where the podcast or related content is shared
  Thanks so much for watching. If you like what you just saw, hit the subscribe button for more clips and full episodes.

Sponsors

• Birch Gold Group — Product · Sponsor (ad read) · 2 mentions · first at 17:46
  A sponsored segment promoting gold/precious-metals diversification and IRA/401k rollovers via Birch Gold Group.
• Birch Gold Group — Company · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 17:46
  Advertiser promoting gold investment as a financial strategy
  There's a never- ending list of reasons gold has risen over 700% in the last 20 years. And a never-ending list of reasons smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Haven't they found all the physical clues by now that are there to find? They It's like virtually every day they're out there. You're shaking your head. No, Moren. Why?

0:08 Because um being on the evidence response team and also being part of um you know being a case agent involved in a lot of these cases when especially when you open a tip line. So as soon as they offered that $50,000 reward that just opened the floodgates that as everyone here certainly those of us in the bureau can attest to. And when they open those floodgates, you're going to get a whole bunch of other tips. For example, you're going to get phone calls saying, "Hey, on on the the day after she disappeared or late that night, I was driving by Highway and right here at the mile marker 32, I saw a car pulled over and parked or whatever. Then you've got all the um technical stuff going on in the background that we talked about with the geo fencing and everything. and if they opened it up and looked at the hours afterwards and such and such, they'll they'll notice that two devices were stopped on the side of the road

1:02 what someplace or the other, you know. So, even they're checking all these things out as they come in and as they're developing throughout the investigation, it's very fluid and it's very um um it's very in intensive. James Hamilton, I is it what do we glean from the fact that they they keep going back to Annie and Tomas's home and neighborhood? Nancy had eaten dinner with them that night, allegedly played games, and was dropped off back at her house, which is, I'm told, four miles or 10 minutes away. Um, so why I mean I I don't want to jump to conclusions about that couple, but that is not, we're told, the crime scene. So, why are they so obsessed with canvasing that neighborhood and that backyard?

1:53 Yeah, I don't think you're jumping to conclusions at all. You always start with who saw the victim last and uh in this case, that's who saw Miss Guthrie last. So, that makes complete sense that they're going to, you know, run that to ground and continue to look at that story. And, you know, don't forget kidnappings are like we were saying earlier, they're very, very difficult. And so, this, you know, indication there's more searching going on. This is a very desolate area. This isn't Manhattan. there. It's possible there's, you know, a place to put a body in a lot of different places. And remember this kidnapping obviously there was some violence and we know there's a heart issue. So either the violence could have caused some, you know, god forbid she died during the kidnapping or shortly thereafter or her heart, god forbid, stopped and now this kidnapper stuck with this dead body. What's he going to

2:37 do, right? He's not going to get any money for it if that was his intent was to kidnap to get the money. Now what are you going to do? Well, you know, maybe you dump it and then you just, you know, drive away. And so there's going to be, like Meen was saying, people giving tips saying, "Hey, I saw this." You know, no one's talked about this white van. That's a whole good lead. No one seemed to want to talk about I'd love to talk about it. But, you know, that's what's that's what you're seeing here. I'm I'm shocked that there's a very specialized unit of dogs that the FBI has that can track a lot of things. I'm surprised they haven't been deployed. Maybe they have, but things like that I I would have been had expected to see by now.

3:14 Will, you're shaking your head. Yes. Yeah. I mean, a couple of things I'd probably pick up on, Megan, from from your your your comments about the interest in family members or close family members. Well, the one the first thing that I got taught when I uh first learned kidnap and ransom negotiation was the 70% rule, and it still prevails to this day. and that is this that in most kidnappings if this is indeed a kidnapping in 70% of cases there will be someone connected to the victim um that will be working in close proximity or will be a family member and I think through the process of obviously elimination the uh the feds are going to have to look very much at the family very very closely to see whether they are a viable prospect in terms of being suspects or whether they can be discounted from their inquiries And and to just to cover on a point that James made, I've negotiated on the return of a

4:09 dead body. So again, depending on who the group is, I agree with James that yes, if he does have uh the frail Nancy on his hands and you know, she passes away, they may he may or they may potentially discard the body, but if there's a slightly more professional element behind it, they may still continue to negotiate against that for the return of it. I think the key issue here really is the proof of life or lack thereof of

4:37 Yeah. Go ahead, Fitz. I can see you want to get in. Yeah. Uh and historically speaking, everything that's being said here in the last few minutes is accurate. Uh uh the last known kid and I I'll touch on a few subjects and and I'm going to be corrected here, but the last known for-profit kidnapping of which we are aware took place in the outskirts of Oslo, Norway. Uh and and the media was not involved or was told about that for for weeks after it happened. Kidnapping note was left at the table. She's missing. Body never recovered. Husband was arrested then released thereafter.

5:10 Uh we brought up Sydney Riso. I did early last week. The Exxon executive. He died 4 days into his captivity. Those kidnappers uh kept it up uh for 50 plus days after that trying to get the money. Husband and wife team eventually arrested. We talked about some of that last week. And to go back to the search uh aspects of it, there there's never a wrong search or a bad search. I mean, as long as it's legal with consent, things we've all discussed already so far. Uh and that is there's nothing wrong with reining re-reviewing uh you know, multiple times people as new information comes up. So, it to me it doesn't necessarily put any more of a of a of a suspicion on on family members when agents are going back. The other thing I'll throw out there, I haven't heard this mentioned at all by anyone in the media, and I I've been to Phoenix a few times. I'm not sure Tucson.

5:58 I know it's not a a lakefilled or pond-filled area. Um, but I'm sure there are reservoirs or retaining ponds, pools, whatever they call them. I've heard nothing about any dive teams going into them anywhere along the way. And maybe someone here has, but uh, that's something that should also be considered. Again, I'm not looking for Mrs. Guthri's here necessarily, but certainly tools, elements of the crime anywhere along any sort of egress. That's something they may want to consider if they haven't already.

6:26 We um we we predicted this and now it hits via TMZ that the FBI and Pima County Sheriff's Department are homing in on the outfit the presumed kidnapper wore as he approached the front door. They are on the hunt for who bought the items. Law enforcement sources involved in the investigation tell TMZ they singled out three items in particular, those gloves. Moren,

6:48 the backpack and the gun visible on the Nest video. We're told authorities are contacting manufacturers and retailers to figure out who may have purchased the items. The gloves, the backpack, and the gun. What's interesting to me is like maybe not the gloves, like the backpack and the gun. That's something. Guns are big in America and they're big in the Southwest. It's not unusual to find somebody out there with a gun and it's not unusual to find anybody with a backpack. A face mask that you know you wear that where I grew up in Syracuse, New York, that's everyone's got one. But in Tucson

7:26 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You wear it down to get your mail if you want to have your face when you get back inside. But this that to me seems very suspicious. In any event, they of course are going to do that because we saw in Colberger, as clever as he was in some ways, he bought that damn KBAR knife on Amazon. On Amazon. So even someone named Brian Colberger was brilliant in some ways, but like made such elemental mistakes. So, I get they're probably checking the Amazon histories of all the family and maybe contractors who show up at the house, right? Like, and then beyond that, you got to go the other end of the transaction, the sellers, that you can't just go to Amazon and say, "Who bought a face mask?" Can you? I don't I don't know if you can, but you definitely can go to the retail stores and say, "Do you sell this backpack? Look at that." And it was very distinctive looking. I still haven't figured out whether those are

8:21 lights on his shoulder straps or reflective patches, you know, but it's a very distinctive backpack and we have both the front and the back of it pictured. Very helpful. No,

8:31 very helpful. Very helpful. I think I think it's that you've highlighted the key areas as far as I'm concerned which are the most identifiable in trying to obviously trace the firearm. I agree. I think even in terms of the the ski mask, I think that that's could be a loss leader in trying to follow inquiries on that. it would be very difficult and who knows maybe he knitted it or a family member knitted it. I mean uh you know it doesn't necessarily mean that it's been bought from a retail store. Uh but I think the backpack certainly the trousers certainly the jacket certainly those are those are the three areas I'd be most concentrating on. One of our audience members was pointing out, can we play the video where he he realizes that he can't he's got to turn around?

9:10 He's got to go back out and get the vegetation and where he bends down and and she raised something that I actually has been gnawing at me too. Is there something wrong with this guy's leg or knee? Cuz watch like when he turns around and goes back out there. Hold on. He's trying to do his little tap tap thing to get the nest camera off which does not work. Stand by. Okay, now he's backing up. Okay. So, like where he bends over there, he doesn't look very fil. He doesn't look very limber. And and when he bends over there, he doesn't look like the most limber person either. Just made me wonder. I'm really going out on a limb here, but like the calmness with with which he executed the crime and maybe an injury. Could you possibly be looking for somebody, you know, former law enforcement? That's who committed that Exxon kidnapping. former law enforcement or was he former Jim was or was he current anyway? He was

10:07 definitely law enforcement. Former and former Exxon security, which of course was Exxon Security vice president who was kid.

10:13 Okay. Um I don't know. Uh I guess you guys I think might conclude based on what you told me yesterday, Moren and Feds, that probably not former law enforcement given the way he's holding that gun. Uh because that doesn't right. And so then maybe not former military either. But I he he's altering the way he walks when he when he approaches the the front porch and the camera because you know people can say oh he he is looks surprised that there's a camera but virtually what what we know is how he's dressed. He's dressed to conceal his identity. He has he has a a set of gloves under the nitro gloves. He may have leggings on under those pants to make him look a little bit heavier than he is in in or her, which

11:01 I don't know. That facial hair looks pretty legit, but what do I know? Um, so I I think it's an altered gate just on the off chance that someone gets some video off this thing or if he can't destroy the camera right away or whatever his plan was because he definitely 100% is altering the way he walks and his stance as he approaches that camera. Would you guys agree with that?

11:26 It doesn't look natural. No, but most likely for utilitarian purposes as opposed to a nagging injury of some sort. We can't rule it out, of course, but hely has his head down and he has a big backpack on. We don't know how heavy that thing is and what's in there, of course. So, his gate is going to be a little bit, you know, sort of off in that regard. He may have had some practice runs. Let's not forget, too, all the things they're looking for. I'm not sure if they sell um flashlights that strictly are designed for the mouth that you push the button, you know, and you squeeze it somehow and the light goes on. That's something else I'm hoping. There can't be too many people that buy those things within a 100 miles of of Tucson. So, uh I'm hoping that is something they focus on. It could be a clue like that that really helps.

12:12 There were some astute um astute viewers who wrote in about that what looks like a mouth flashlight of some kind.

12:17 It is saying that that you would have to remove from your mouth with your gloves

12:24 and there could be a transfer of, you know, your saliva onto the exterior of your gloves. and those gloves then had to touch things in NY's home. So, like that's actually somewhat promising. Um, this guy probably does have his own saliva remnants on those gloves and definitely used the gloved hands to go into the home and and hurt Nancy and get Nancy. And I'm sure he touched something. Go ahead.

12:46 There's one thing I wanted to say about that transfer because that's a very good point. That is a mouth um uh flashlight and you turn it off and on by biting on it. A lot of apparent apparently airline mechanics and stuff like that or people that deal with wires and stuff, they'll use it so that their hands can remain free while they do their work. And they're it's pretty much the same technology as those those headlamp ones that you get. But with regard to the gloves, a lot of people always think that I'm wearing gloves, my DNA can't get anywhere. But everyone underestimates the number of times they touch their face no matter what. like you know I mean just going like this

13:26 and now now you touch something. So that's going to be the DNA stuff. And the way you find that sometimes like even if we look at the um when they took NY's car out of the garage, it could have been something as simple as when they went back in there and they looked at the they turned off the lights and they turned on their flashlights. I used flashlights extensively and you could see that there's a an area where the dust has been swiped away. That's an area you want to look at and you want to test. You're not certainly not going to test the entire vehicle as a general rule, but if there's an area like that where the dust is disturbed, that's where it got swiped and that's where the transfer potentially could have occurred.

14:08 Let me ask you, Will and James, what you think is uh ran this by our other panelists yesterday. There's one photo in the series that's been released by Cash Patel that shows we think this same abductor farther back without the backpack. And you can't see his face at all. It's either because the camera is too pixelated, that's what we were speculating yesterday, or maybe he's turned it around entirely.

14:35 But here's the shot. You You cannot see any sort of a backpack whatsoever. I don't think you can see the gun. We zoomed in on it yesterday and you cannot see the holes for the eyes or the mouth. And this too was released to us by the FBI. Now I can I can go with maybe pixelation too far away on the face mask I guess. But no backpack the backpack. There was all this reflective stuff and the lights or whatever's on like what do you think we're seeing there?

15:05 I mean just jumping in there James if you don't mind. Um there's there's a couple of quick questions Megan. Were you given actually unedited footage which ran continually or are these just snapshots which were provided by the bureau? So yes again they they may not necessarily be consecutive. Uh there may have been an initial probe. Sometimes they will make an initial approach to see is there anybody else in the house? Is is it undisturbed? You know is there just one person there? It's quiet. Everyone's gone to bed. Uh so you know he may have returned or she may have returned to go and get that backpack from their vehicle and then make that actual approach. So it could have been an initial probe. But the the thing that certainly before I pass to James, the thing that really confuses me and I'm sure um I'd love to hear the the the um the opinions of the others is there are so many contradictions in this whole

15:55 method of approach. Um there's he's using a torch which has to be activated by the mouth rather than a head torch. And it's not a question of him being necessarily seen by anybody with a head torch because he's carrying his weapon obviously outside of his uh his waistband. So, and again, the gloves, the the mask, the uh the illpreparedness for actually removing the Ring doorbell. The there are so many contradictions here from what could have been professional to what's somewhat of a clown show and an amateur.

16:27 Yes, totally. Go ahead, James. Yeah, I mean, I agree with a lot of this. Uh, I was looking at the picture to see if the shoes were the same. To make sure we've got, you know, the same person and maybe

16:36 a lot of our online sleuths watching us on YouTube say the shoes look different to them. Um, that the shoes from,

16:42 you know, faceless man look different from the shoes. But overall, I would say looks very similar to the guy who who we know approached the door.

16:49 Yeah. When we're doing like surveillance training, we're always taught, you know, shoes, watches, and glasses. People don't usually change those. And so I always kind of look there first.

16:58 Um, and this person's shoes are different. So it may is it two people? I I don't know. It might be the same person. They're wearing the same outfit. Could be two. The eyeholes missing is odd. But I I think I agree with Will. It's quite possible. This is the early they came up approach, see what they're dealing with. Then they come back with the backpack and then they do this, you know, silliness with the flowers to do the obuscation of the of the camera. But for me, this is looks like a probing in the beginning before the actual act.

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Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Unanswered Questions About Nancy Guthrie Case... Were There TWO People in the Nest Camera Images?"?

Megyn Kelly (Guest), James Hamilton (Guest), Will (Guest), Fitz (Guest), Moren (Guest).

What is "Unanswered Questions About Nancy Guthrie Case... Were There TWO People in the Nest Camera Images?" about?

The investigation into Nancy Guthrie's disappearance raises significant questions, particularly regarding the intriguing Nest camera images suggesting the possibility of two individuals being involved. As tips flood in following a reward announcement, authorities are meticulously evaluating evidence, including eyewitness accounts and neighborhood canvassing, particularly focusing on the last…

What is mentioned in this Megyn Kelly episode?

23 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Kidnapping, Nancy Guthrie, FBI, Tucson, James Hamilton, Proof of Life. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Unanswered Questions About Nancy Guthrie Case... Were There TWO People in the Nest Camera Images?"?

The episode runs 19 min; the transcript is about 3,617 words in 36 timestamped sections.

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