LIVE: Jack Smith RETURNS for VENGEANCE + BREAKING LEGAL NEWS | Legal AF

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on Jack Smith's forceful condemnation of Donald Trump as a criminal, accompanied by significant testimony that highlights the tensions between Trump and oversight committees. The analysis also touches on recent legal challenges involving figures in Trump's administration and their implications for his public persona and upcoming announcements.

Key takeaways

• Jack Smith's bombshell exposes Trump: when 'closed doors' hide 'explosive truths'. Popcorn ready?
• Brendan Carr: Trump’s FCC ally learned 'crap the bed' in law school, now faces scorching oversight.
• Hannah Dugan: Milwaukee's judge battles legal storm—politics, ICE raids, and courtroom drama collide.
• Ghislaine Maxwell’s 'jailhouse lawyer' gambit: self-defense or desperate clemency ploy? Epstein files loom.
• Tom Sawyer vibes: Legal AF weaves intrigue with humor—live chats echo courtroom theatrics, not funerals.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Michael Popok (Host) · 59 min speaking
• Dena Dahl (Host) · 19 min speaking
• Jack Smith (Guest) · 2 min speaking
• Andrew Weissmann (Guest)
• Dr. Tory Waxman (Guest)

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Hannah Dugan, Dena Dah, Oversight Committee, administrative warrant
2. 10:00 – 20:00: American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Democracy Forward, Oversight Committee, Russ vote
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Jamie Raskin, Andrew Weissman, Chairman Jordan, Dan Bonino
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Chief Judge Boseberg, Jones Road, Alligator Alcatraz, Chef Dan Churchill
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Comcast, cool gloss, Oversight Committee, Paris Accords
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Communications Act of 1934, Unprecedented
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Laundry Sauce, administrative warrant, Dr. Tori Waxman, Hannah Dugan
8. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: David Oscar Marcus, Adam Glasfeld, All Rise News, clemency

Notable quotes from "LIVE: Jack Smith RETURNS for VENGEANCE + BREAKING LEGAL NEWS | Legal AF"

• Statements and statements made by Jack Smith about Donald Trump. He was called in by the oversight committee and the MAGA in the house. Jack Smith wanted to do it to the…

  about Oversight Committee · at 0:44

• Democratic senators. Knives were out I guess is the phrase to use and you wait till you see what happened there. Hannah Dugan is fighting for her life as a state court judge in…

  about Hannah Dugan · at 2:41

• And so much more with one of my best friends and colleagues on shows like unprecedented about the United States Supreme Court that we do on the Legal AF YouTube channel, Dena Dah. Hi Dina.

  about Unprecedented · at 5:30

• Wilds said about the opportunist JD Vance, the ketamine user in Elon Musk, the MAGA zealot in Russ vote, the Epstein files with Donald Trump's name in them, you know what, Pam…

  about Russ vote · at 10:51

• Smith wants to do is talk to the American people. And you saw him, we saw him in the clips. Jamie Rascin, Representative Jamie Raskin, who's a friend of the podcast. I just had…

  about Jamie Raskin · at 25:53

• Judge Zenis in Maryland. The other 250 that were the subject of Chief Jeb Chief Judge Boseberg's grounding order in March were already traded by the Trump administration back…

  about Chief Judge Boseberg · at 32:45

• Products, too many steps, not enough time. So, I love this new product by Jones Road. They sent this Miracle Balm palette when I ordered it, and it's got three beautiful shades…

  about Jones Road · at 38:30

• Legal AF at checkout. All right, I got a secret to tell you. I'm obsessed with laundry sauce. I've been using it nonstop and I swear the second you pull clothes out of the dryer, the scent hits you but in the best possible way.

  about Laundry Sauce · at 1:02:46

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Hannah Dugan — Person · 4 mentions · first at 2:46
• Jamie Raskin — Person · 4 mentions · first at 25:56
• Ed Markey — Person · 3 mentions
• Dena Dah — Person · 2 mentions · first at 0:10
  Catching up on all the news for today and I'm joined by one of the Midas favorites, Dena Dah sitting in for Karen Freeman. I'm Michael Popach. You're on the Midas Touch Network…
• Russ vote — Person · 2 mentions · first at 10:59
• Chief Judge Boseberg — Person · 2 mentions · first at 32:50
• David Oscar Marcus — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:12:25
  Suspected that she had gotten fired from her by her CL by her lawyer that her lawyer fired her and David Oscar Marcus who was all puffed up when he thought, he could get her a…
• Senator Amy Klobuchar — Person · 2 mentions
• Karen Freeman — Person · 1 mention · first at 0:10
  Catching up on all the news for today and I'm joined by one of the Midas favorites, Dena Dah sitting in for Karen Freeman. I'm Michael Popach. You're on the Midas Touch Network…
• Michael Popach — Person · 1 mention · first at 0:12
  And I'm joined by one of the Midas favorites, Dena Dah sitting in for Karen Freeman. I'm Michael Popach. You're on the Midas Touch Network and Dena, oh what a night we have in…
• Andrew Weissman — Person · 1 mention · first at 20:55
  General, unless you really had to. and so he gave an interview with a fellow prosecutor, Andrew Weissman. I think it was actually outside the country, but we saw it. We caught it. We have a clip. Let's play that clip.
• John Dow — Person · 1 mention · first at 25:37
  Have all come forward to defend him, although Jack Smith doesn't need defending. John Dow, who's been opposed to him in cases when Jack Smith was a prosecutor, represented…
• Chairman Jordan — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:41
  Shadow hearing. Let's play the clip of Jamie Raskin today. I just want to say that Chairman Jordan made an excellent decision in not allowing Jack Smith to testify publicly…
• Robert Herr — Person · 1 mention · first at 28:14
  Every other special counsel's been able to come here and testify. Robert Mueller's been able to testify. Robert Herr's been able to testify. All the special counelss and…
• Dan Bonino — Person · 1 mention · first at 29:45
  Internal disputes within the FBI and DOJ leadership, and how might a high-profile resignation like Bonino's intersect with those risks? That's pretty good. So Dan Bonino…
• Paula Zenis — Person · 1 mention · first at 32:45
  We know Garcia is back in the United States being held under supervision of Judge Zenis in Maryland. The other 250 that were the subject of Chief Jeb Chief Judge Boseberg's…
• Chef Dan Churchill — Person · 1 mention · first at 37:36
  I tried Chef Dan Churchill's roasted turkey sausage dinner, and it tasted just like something from a five-star restaurant. Perfectly seasoned, comforting, and ready in minutes. Get.
• Dr. Tori Waxman — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:01:44
  Sunda's was founded by a veterinarian and mom, Dr. Tory Waxman, who got tired of seeing so-called premium dog food full of fillers and synthetics. So, she designed Sundaes, air dried real food made in a human-grade kitchen using the.
• Adam Glasfeld — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:10:39
  Yeah, agreed. Adam Glasfeld, who's with us on with All Rise News on Legal AF, I think he and I are going to do a live report because he's in Milwaukee in the courtroom. He's been doing some great.
• Judge Angelmire — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:15:15
  Wrong court. I think she has to file it in Texas where she is not in New York with Judge Angelmire who handled her case. I don't know if you had a chance to see this ramblings of a mad woman.
• Virginia G. Frey — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:17:10
  Seeing it, as you said, with the jury testimony. I've read about it with Julie Virginia Frey's book. she was a co-conspirator in every sense of the world and really disgusting…
• Foghorn Leghorn — Person · 1 mention
• Huck — Person · 1 mention
• interim Biff — Person · 1 mention
• Judge Aileen Cannon — Person · 1 mention
• Judge Analisa Torres — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

• Tom Sawyer — Book · 1 mention · first at 5:46
  It's like Tom Sawyer. It's like attending your own funeral.
• All in the Family — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:30
  Definitely people that I've, I've followed Rob Reiner since he was on All in the Family when I was a child. And sure, he's he was a moderate and a liberal and he had a foundation that was devoted to things like gay marriage.

Companies & orgs

• Oversight Committee — Company · 4 mentions · first at 0:48
• Unprecedented — Company · 4 mentions · first at 5:36
• Department of Justice Antitrust Division — Company · 1 mention · first at 2:32
  And let's interfere with this and let's interfere with that. Donald Trump uses either the Department of Justice Antitrust Division or the Federal Communications Commission. And…
• American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) — Company · 1 mention · first at 14:44
  Because the bigger we get, the more I can bring on amazing contributors like Dena and the American Civil Liberties Union and Democracy Forward and get the interviews with the…
• Democracy Forward — Company · 1 mention · first at 14:45
  Can bring on amazing contributors like Dena and the American Civil Liberties Union and Democracy Forward and get the interviews with the senators and the congress people and…
• Securities and Exchange Commission — Company · 1 mention · first at 46:17
  Administration's position is that Donald Trump can fire all of these agencies and, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Federal Trade Commission, Federal Communications…
• Comcast — Company · 1 mention · first at 49:39
  Past time that a lot of these licensed broadcasters themselves push back on Comcast and Disney and say listen we are going to preempt we are not going to run Kimmel anymore…
• All Rise News — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:10:42
  Yeah, agreed. Adam Glasfeld, who's with us on with All Rise News on Legal AF, I think he and I are going to do a live report because he's in Milwaukee in the courtroom. He's been doing some great social media posting about it, but I'm.
• Second Circuit Court of Appeals — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:14:21
  She never argued any of that at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York. And she never argued that at the United States Supreme Court. She argued not that she wasn't guilty. She argued that she was the beneficiary of a.
• DOJ website — Company · 1 mention
• Miccosukee — Company · 1 mention
• OAN — Company · 1 mention
• Seminole tribe — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• Miracle Balm — Product · 1 mention · first at 38:36
  Products, too many steps, not enough time. So, I love this new product by Jones Road. They sent this Miracle Balm palette when I ordered it, and it's got three beautiful shades…
• Miracle Balm palette — Product · 1 mention · first at 38:36
  Products, too many steps, not enough time. So, I love this new product by Jones Road. They sent this Miracle Balm palette when I ordered it, and it's got three beautiful shades…
• cool gloss — Product · 1 mention · first at 40:05
• Himalayan Cashmere — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:03:00
  Himalayan Cashmere is my current favorite. It's their first ever hypoallergenic fragrance and it's soft, cozy, clean, all wrapped together like slipping into the perfect cashmere.

Concepts & topics

• writ of habeas corpus — Concept · 4 mentions
• administrative warrant — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 3:02
  Early on in the Trump administration decided to oppose their ICE policies of using administrative warrants to try to arrest criminals or defendants in criminal cases in state…
• clemency — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 5:26
  This just a guise for the Department of Justice to figure out a way through Donald Trump to give her clemency? so we'll cover we will cover all of that and so much more with…
• Democratic senators — Concept · 1 mention · first at 2:41
  Carr had a you know meet his maker today in senators in the Democratic senators. Knives were out I guess is the phrase to use and you wait till you see what happened there.…
• Alligator Alcatraz — Concept · 1 mention · first at 31:57
  To be like a speed round. unfortunately, and I'm in Florida, the alligator Alcatraz is still operational. it's it's supposed to have been wound down because of violation of environmental policy. The Seinal tribe is very upset about.
• Paris Accords — Concept · 1 mention · first at 41:59
  Wow. he talks about the highly ineffective unaffordable care act and the one-sided Paris Accords. Okay. In for Bill Clinton, he also in the black about Bill Clinton, he points…
• Communications Act of 1934 — Concept · 1 mention · first at 57:27
  Really quickly because this is so when Congress established it, the Communications Act of 1934, they said that the FCC would regulate, approve licenses, approve mergers, all to…
• Epstein law — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:12:09
  Almost exactly that in his decision to release the grand jury transcripts based on the Epstein law that just got passed because he wanted to remind the world of what a heinous…
• Sixth Amendment — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:14:04
  In that what she made no arguments about her trial. And you're entitled to a fair trial in America under the Sixth Amendment. You are not entitled, nor has there ever been such…
• Jerry Lewis telethon — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• SECOT — Place · 2 mentions
• U.S. Capitol — Place · 2 mentions
• Florida Everglades — Place · 1 mention · first at 31:34
  From Dorothy Bernardo. Where are all the people who were held in the detention center in the Florida Everglades, which they like to call the Alligator Alcatra? Also, what's the…
• Reagan International Airport — Place · 1 mention · first at 41:22
  The names of the peace institute, change the, if he tries to change the name of the ra of the Reagan International Airport, if he puts his name on this or that, we're just going to have to we're just have to effing change it back. So,.

Sponsors

• Laundry Sauce — Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at 1:02:51
• Jones Road — Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 38:36
• CookUnity — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 37:53
  Comfort and nutrition delivered in every bite thanks to award-winning chefs at Cookunity. Go to cookunity.com/legal AFree or enter code legal AF free before checkout to get free premium meals for life. That's free premium meals for life.
• Sundays — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 1:02:27
  Make the switch to Sundays. Go right now to Sundays fordogs.com/legal AF and get 40% off your first order. Or you can use code legal AAF at checkout.
• Jones Road Beauty — Sponsor · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Legal AF the podcast. Sorry, we're just a couple minutes late. We're just catching up on all the news for today and I'm joined by one of the Midas favorites, Dena Dah sitting in for Karen Freeman. I'm Michael Popach. You're on the Midas Touch Network and uh Dena, oh what a night we have in store for our loyal audience. We're going to talk about Jack Smith calling Donald Trump a criminal beyond a reasonable doubt. Another way to put it in bombshell testimony that

0:36 MAGA didn't want you to know about, but we're going to be talking about at length.

0:40 Uh, and remind you of some, we brought the receipts, remind you of some recent statements and statements made by Jack Smith about Donald Trump. He was called in by the oversight committee uh and the MAGA in the house. Jack Smith wanted to do it to the American public and they were scared of him. I mean there's no other way to put it and so they said no let's do it behind mahogany closed doors and we'll we'll sort it out that way. And uh but you know he had he had introductory statement. We have it. We know it. And it's not great if Donald Trump thought this was going to help him come. you know, it if anything it steps on tonight's uh state of the Trump event, you know, announcing all his great economic plans and maybe we're going to war with Venezuela. So, that happened. Uh Brendan Carr, little known tyrant synopant within the Trump administration, but runs a very important piece of real estate called

1:39 the Federal Communications Commission, the FCC. You know, anything on broadcast television, cable, this or that that needs a license of some sort is regulated by the FCC. He, how can I put this nicely? Did not do well. He crapped the bed. That's a legal term during today's oversight committee. I Dena laughing in the background. You learned that in law school, Dena.

2:01 Yeah, absolutely. It was like the most important legal term. Craft the bed much like Pam Bondi did and Cash Patel and the rest. You know, this is the first time he's been in an oversight committee hearing after going after Jimmy Kimmel, going after ABC, uh, doing Donald Trump's bidding, trying to help Donald Trump place media assets in the hands of his friends, like let's get CNN over to to Larry Ellison of Oracle and let's interfere with this and let's interfere with that. Donald Trump uses either the Department of Justice Antitrust Division or the Federal Communications Commission. And Brendan Carr had a had a had a you know meet his maker today in senators in the Democratic senators. Knives were out I guess is the phrase to use and you wait till you see what happened there. Hannah Dugan is fighting for her life as a state court judge in Milwaukee. She early on in the Trump administration

2:59 decided to oppose their ICE policies of using administrative warrants to try to arrest uh criminals or or defendants in criminal cases in state court. Federal ICE would show up during court hearings, burst through the doors of the courthouse courtrooms and try to pick up people. people like Hannah Dugan were like that's the probably not a good policy putting people below ground and making them afraid of coming to court or or not coming to court based on our warrants because they're afraid of getting picked up. And so she did or didn't do something on one of her criminal defendants in front of her that the government turned around and indicted her, did a perp walk of her. Uh this is a this is a state court judge um in order to try to embarrass her, in order to try to name and shame her as they like to say in MAGA world and her trial is here about whether she did or did not interfere with ISIS operation to arrest

3:59 a certain defendant in her who was in her presence for a criminal strangulation. By the way, that guy has already been deported. He's ICE got their man deported him after he admitted to being illegally in the country. And yet Hannah Dugan still remains on trial. The government has rested today and we'll catch everybody up on a very important story about the rule of law in this country and an out of control Trump administration. And then finally, Galain Maxwell, convicted child sex trafficker and crony friend of Donald Trump, back in the news because uh she filed something today. She can add a new title to her many titles. convicted child sex trafficker, lover of Jeffrey Epstein, business partner of Jeffrey Epste, and now you can add jail house lawyer because her lawyer fired her apparently.

4:49 And she just filed a and I looked at it, Dina, a um a uh petition for rid of man uh of habius corpus uh trying to get out of jail after all of her appeals have failed that she did herself apparently. Uh, and it's a sad ramblings of a mad woman, um, who knows that she's not going to get out of jail unless Donald Trump takes her out of jail. But why did she do it so close to the deadline where the Epstein files are to be released, further tormenting the survivors? And is this just a guise for the Department of Justice to figure out a way through Donald Trump to give her clemency? Uh so we'll cover we will cover all of that and so much more with one of my best friends uh and colleagues on shows like uh unprecedented about the United States Supreme Court that we do on the Legal AF YouTube channel, Dena Dah. Hi Dina.

5:42 Oh, what a great introduction. So excited to do this with you too. It's like Tom Sawyer. It's like attending your own funeral.

5:50 Sorry about that. We're comparing it to that. Huh. All right. Well, you know, it's a little bit better show than a funeral. you know, when Huck and Tom were in the back and they ended up crying after hearing people talk about them, thinking they were dead. Um, and we're going to do something very unique tonight. Um, Dina, we're going to take a moment. I got some staff ready to do it with me and you. We're going to grab some questions from tonight's live chat and we are going to answer them the best way we can. We're accumulating questions right now. post your questions for us and at our couple of intervals today we will um we will answer them. So why don't first how are you doing?

6:30 I'm doing great. Yeah. Yeah. Love being here. Are you uh you and your family getting ready for the are you in holidays or getting ready for holidays?

6:40 We are getting ready for holidays. I can't believe it's next week. We celebrate Christmas.

6:44 Some of it's some of us it's tonight. Exactly. For you it's today. Right. Not quite. But yeah, no, it's, you know, it's a it's it's it's a weird time for Trump to be doing all of his kind of evil things because it's supposed to be a time of family and friends and peace on Earth and it's not that. But I but I am it's it's I know it's a great I I'm having a good time. You have a president who just and it came up today during the Brendan Carr FCC hearings who celebrated the stabbing death of a couple icons.

7:26 You know, definitely people that I've, you know, I've followed Rob Reiner since he was on All in the Family when I was a child. And

7:34 sure, he's he was a moderate and a liberal and he had a foundation that was devoted to things like um gay marriage and that type of thing, but did he deserve to be murdered by apparently his son? And is that what the the commander-in-chief, the comforter and chief, the consoler and chief takes time out of his busy day of crushing the hopes and dreams of the American people to um throw uh dirt on the grave worse of Rob Reiner and his wife and say they were murdered on murdered because of their own demented Trump derangement syndrome. What did what did you make of that? What is the I asked this question last night in the intersection. What is the constituency that he's aiming for with these types of heartless um a heartless social media post? What is it? Who what extra vote is he trying to get?

8:24 He's his constituency. He only ever does anything that benefits him or that he cares about. You know, this is what I thought when I saw I mean, that was obviously so evil. I don't know how else to put it. you know, talking about the worst thing to have your a child kill their parents like that in cold blood really. And but that evil that he revealed, it was like a curtain that went down and it was so obvious across all political spectrums. It was so obvious that evil is behind everything and we are all suffering. That is the evil that was behind the cancelling of the US aid and not caring how many people across the world have died.

9:05 That's the evil that is having the ICE people go out in masks and dragging people through the streets, right? That's the evil that is vulnerable people in our country are are are feeling the effects of all the time. But he couches it in a way that is easy for people or at least his supporters to swallow, let's say, right? Oh, it's about this or it's about that. But it's really about that evil. And I felt like that was one of the rare times where that curtain fell in such a way that he even couldn't hide how frankly evil his motivations are.

9:48 Yeah. And you know, such a weird runup to the holidays. Vanity Fair runs an article, a profile of Susie Wilds, who who really nobody ever hears about. She's just trying to hold on to that job as chief of staff. Grew up in the rough and tumble politics of Florida. You know, sort of a a major operator. Never says anything out loud that can be interpreted as being negative or critical of Donald Trump. And really doesn't speak unless Donald Trump gives her permission to speak. And she gave a series of interviews with it wasn't just one with Vanity Fair. There was some in March, there were some a month ago. They sort of put this whole story together.

10:28 and she came out like the just shing all of these people in the administration obviously at Donald Trump's behest. Susie Wilds doesn't wipe wipe her backside without Donald Trump's permission. I mean, I know there's all there's two there's two schools of thought with all what I see with the media running with right now, which is Susie Wilds in a world of trouble. She'll be thrown under a butt. Forget all that. Susie Wilds. Anything Susie Wilds said about the opportunist JD Vance, the ketamine user in Elon Musk, the um MAGA zealot in Russ vote, the uh Epstein files with Donald Trump's name in them, you know what, you know, Pam Bondi swinging a miss, whatever she said, Donald Trump approves that. That's this message is approved by Donald Trump and he likes to destabilize those people around him um especially when they get too big for their britches. Um uh and make them compete against each other and

11:26 all that stuff. What did you make of both the Vanity Fair article, Susie Wild's comments, including comparing Donald Trump to an alcoholic and the media reaction to it. So there's like two sides of the story. There's what happened and then there's this split in the media like Susie telling it like it is must be speaking for Donald Trump. That's sort of my view. And the others are like Susie what why was she so loose with who who approved the Vanity Fair article. Well, I want to hear where you're at in that too.

11:56 Well, I think her calling him an alcoholic is an insult to alcoholics. But, you know, I agree. I don't think that this was some sort of like catch her moment, a mistake, an accident. She's not the kind of person who was going to just tumble into something and say something by accident. I don't think it was a hit piece. I think she had a plan. There was a purpose behind it. I don't know whether or not because it's true her one bad comment about Trump about being an alcoholic. She couches it at as he's like that personality who thinks he can do anything which Trump might see that as a compliment. Right?

12:32 So the rest of the comments were certainly worse. whether or not she did it a 100% at his bidding or because she is also playing both sides and knows I think Mac is really going down. I think that's a sentiment that's to me growing and she was she started with Jeb Bush. She's a more establishment type person. She might be kind of playing both sides a little bit. Maybe she went a little bit farther than he expected. But I agree. I don't think it was out on a limb that she just happened to say these these bad things about everybody.

13:05 Yeah, I I I agree with that. And thank you for everybody who joined us. We're know we're going to hit about 4,000 people right now. That is a uh we're counterprogramming against Donald Donald Trump's State of the Trump address, whatever that's supposed to be. You know, he's on a tour right now to try to convince everybody he's the affordability president. Um you know, he's giving he's giving um he's giving interviews all over the place. And then the rally in a casino in Pennsylvania. Nothing. Look, his administration is coming up craps. That's all I'm going to tell you. So, it was very appropriate.

13:37 Your jokes tonight are really I know. I'm like a joker tonight. I've been People are like, "Why are you wearing a tides?" I had a hear like I was a lawyer today, which uh and I just stayed in character all the rest all the rest of the day. So, um but I do want to thank everybody and for a number of reasons. Um, as Dena knows well because she's one of the closest friends and contributors that was there from day one. We are the odometer is about to roll on legal AF YouTube channel.

14:06 We're at 990,000 in just about a year subscribers, free subscribers. And we're going to roll that thing over with our audience's fervent support. I don't know about tonight, but really soon

14:21 and hopefully before Christmas to get to the magic 1 million. It's not about like hardware I'm gonna get from YouTube because I I never got the one for 100,000. So, I'm not I'm not expecting the million, but it is about

14:35 sort of support and street credibility for what we're trying to do here. Because the bigger we get, the more I can bring on amazing contributors like Dena and the American Civil Liberties Union and Democracy Forward and get the interviews with the senators and the congress people and the attorneys general because it it becomes a no-brainer for them. Oh, legal af get me on there. And now they're fighting to get to get on with us as opposed to me having to run around and beg people. In the beginning, it was a little bit of a, let's be frank, a little bit of a leap of faith. Like, well, we know Popock and there's this thing legally after the podcast. Yeah, we'll come on. We'll see what happens.

15:12 And but now, it's like a thing. It's like a real and we want to we want it to be from the beginning one-stop shopping for all things law and politics. Do 10 12 videos a day.

15:21 And we're doing it. So, if you're not already a subscriber, take a moment. It'll It's in notes somewhere hopefully legally have the YouTube channel. Hit the button. It's all free. No payw wall, no outside investors. Okay, that's the plug I wanted to do for Legal AF, the YouTube channel. At some point, the next time I mention it, my my editing team is going to actually put up a role to show what that YouTube channel looks like. But moving on, let's get to our first story today. Oh, there it is. Now I feel like early Letterman like, you know, like in the in the 80s and 90s. I'm seriously, you know, and he used to like go back and forth with his team, you know, the behind the scenes.

16:01 Where's Biff? Let's bring out Biff. Uh in in any event, let's go to Jack Smith. That's actually more important and more on on message for us here on Legal AF. Jack Smith has basically said a version of you want me, come and get me. I'm ready anytime, any place, anywhere. Public public, you want to talk to me, I want the public to hear from me. Um and the oversight committee run by MAGA were like no we just want you in a closed door meeting uh you know under oath for testimony. He's like no and his lawyers no we want to be heard by the American people but you know listen we can't Jack Smith and his lawyers can't control how the subpoena operates and whether they don't control the rules of the house and who's who's running the house. So, you know, they went down there. They had their public statement ready. And I want to just read from a couple of things in the public statement, but I also want to

16:57 remind people that Jack Smith has said things publicly about Donald Trump and about why he brought this the case and about the apolitical na nature of his work and those on his team. Um, uh, so that people would have confidence in the then Department of Justice or the special counsel's office. And I found it remarkable and it may not I joked earlier today on a video I did for Midas. It may not be up there after my videos hit, but earlier today still up on the website was actually a couple of minutes of Jack Smith introducing the indictment up on the DOJ yes website.

17:37 And of course, we have a clip. Let's roll it. Today, an indictment was unsealed charging Donald J. Trump with conspiring to defraud the United States, conspiring to disenfranchise voters, and conspiring and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding. The indictment was issued by a grand jury of citizens here in the District of Columbia, and it sets forth the crimes charged in detail. I encourage everyone to read it in full. The attack on our nation's capital on January 6th, 2021 was an unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy.

18:21 Described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies. Lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the US government. The nation's process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the presidential election. The men and women of law enforcement who defended the US capital on January 6th are heroes. They are patriots and they are the very best of us. They did not just defend a building or the people sheltering in it. They put their lives in the line to defend who we are as a country and as a people.

19:02 They defended the very institutions and principles that define the United States. Since the attack on our capital, the Department of Justice has remained committed to ensuring accountability for those criminally responsible for what happened that day. This case is brought consistent with that commitment, and our investigation of other individuals continues. Don't we sleep better at night knowing Jack Smith is out there? He's a little grayer now, obviously, but you know, that is the tenor and the tone. Uh in a minute uh Dena and I will read from some of the quotes from his opening statement today, but I wanted people since we're not going to see it until the shadow hearings start with the Democrats, we're not going to hear live from from Jack Smith. I thought it was important.

19:49 Um and I also thought it was Did you think it was fascinating that that's still up on the Department of Justice website? Dana, what did you think?

19:55 Uh fascinating. It just like a tiny example of how dysfunctional and we've seen it in different filings. They like, "Oh, we're like, oh, this is embarrassing. They're doing such a bad job." And of course, they're not even cleaning house and taking care of their public facing website. It's a good detail.

20:13 Yeah, absolutely. In fact, we have another clip because Jack Smith, knowing that he was going to be dragged probably behind a closed door, but wanting to speak to the American people directly, started doing some interviews. you know, he was pretty quiet, um, silent, you know, the quiet, the tall, dark, and handsome silent type during the investigations and the prosecutions. We used to joke on Midas that he was just like Subway Jack. It was just like a Subway sandwich under one arm, a thermos in the other, walk with a dark suit, just walking, chopping wood, going to court. Never heard from him. Remember the days when you never heard from a special prosecutor or or or an attorney general, unless you really had to. Uh, and so he gave an interview with a fellow prosecutor, Andrew Weissman. I think it was actually outside the country, but we saw it. We caught it. We have a clip. Let's play that clip.

21:02 The idea that politics would play a role uh in big cases like this, uh, it's absolutely ludicrous and it's totally contrary to my experience as a prosecutor. These are team players who don't want anything but to do good in the world. They're not interested in politics. And uh I get very concerned when I see how easy it is to demonize these people for political ends.

21:45 I worked in the department for years, Republican, Democrat, Republican. I worked in the I was the acting US attorney in the first Trump administration in Tennessee. Nothing like what we see now has ever gone on. If there's rules in the department about how to bring a case, follow those rules. You can't say, "I want this outcome. Let me throw the rules out." The problem is not prosecuting high officials who did something wrong when you do it according to the processes of law in your country. It's the retaliation that's the problem.

22:17 Yeah. Again, we're stitching together things I wanted people to remember that that Jack Smith said. What did you pick up, Dina, from his statement, his opening statement? We now have sort of a copy of it.

22:28 Why don't you why don't you uh give your overview of it and if you if you have a few quotes, you can read them. If not, I'll read him.

22:34 I mean, just remembering, you know, what he was indicted for when he says the conspiracy to defraud the United States government to disenfranchise American voters and then to obstruct an official proceeding. I mean, those are the most important foundational, you know, underpinnings of our democracy. And he has, as he said, you know, more, you know, he had enough basically to convict. That's what he said today that he had beyond a reasonable doubt. It's sad. It's sad because we needed this to go to trial. We needed it there to be a consequence for Trump so we're not living in this horrible reality that we're living now.

23:17 Unfortunately, Merrick Garland just went too slowly. So, yeah, it's both sad and it just it, you know, it just shows how dangerous to our democracy this person is who's holding office right now. And we knew that for years, unfortunately. Yeah, here's what he said in the in his test. We don't have the actual testimony or transcript yet, but the opening statement, here's what he said. Quoting, the decision to bring charges against President Trump was mine, but the basis for those charges rested entirely with President Trump and his actions as alleged in the indictments returned by two grand by grand juries in two different districts. Our investigation, this is Jack Smith today, developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in a criminal scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election and to prevent the lawful transfer of power.

24:07 Our investigation also developed powerful evidence that showed President Trump willfully retained highly classified documents after he left office in January of 2021, storing them at his social club, Mara Lago, including in a bathroom at a ballroom where events and gatherings took place. Exploiting that violence, talking about Jan 6th, President Trump and his associates tried to call members of Congress in furtherance of their criminal scheme. This was to address the MAGA houses position. Oh my lord, he got a copy of our telephone bills. He knows who we talk to on Jan 6 and Jan 7 or Jan 5 through Jan 7. Oh, I feel violated. I don't know why I do. Fogghorn Legghorn from Warner Brothers cartoons whenever I do a mag congress people and and the response to that was I didn't pick who the phone calls were going to be to.

25:01 Donald Trump did, or as Jack Smith put it, that the the President Trump tried to call members of Congress in furtherance of their criminal scheme, urging them to further delay certification of the 2020 election. I didn't choose those members. President Trump did. Uh, and he also said, um, if asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts today, I would do so regardless of whether the president was a Republican or a Democrat. And then he talked about who's uh the decision that he made. Um people have all come forward to defend him, although Jack Smith doesn't need defending. John Dow, who's been opposed to him in cases when Jack Smith was a prosecutor, represented Donald Trump at one point, said that there's no finer, more ethical prosecutor that he's aware of than Jack Smith. And uh all Jack Smith wants to do is talk to the American people. And you saw him, we saw

25:56 him in the clips. Jamie Rascin, Representative Jamie Raskin, who's a friend of the podcast. I just had the honor of introducing him at a rallyf fundraiser for Eileen Higgins, who won the mayoral race in the city of Miami. He flew in from Washington for it. Uh he um he came out almost joular, you know, he's on he's the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, constitutional scholar and professor in his own right. And Jamie Raskin came out almost giddy about what he heard in there and then took time to troll the GOP, the Republicans, and saying, "Now I know why you didn't want to have Jack Smith tell his story to the American people in public." Dot dot dot. I'm going to do it when I bring him in for a shadow hearing. Let's play the clip of Jamie Raskin today. I just want to say that Chairman Jordan made an excellent decision in not allowing Jack Smith to testify publicly because had he done so,

26:48 it would have been absolutely devastating to the president and all of the president's men involved in the uh insurrectionary activities of January the 6th. So, uh, you know, I'm not I can't get into any further particulars, but I'll just say that Jack Smith has just spent several hours schooling the judiciary committee on the professional responsibilities of a prosecutor and the ethical duties of a prosecutor and he's uh a sensational and honorable public servant and we are lucky to have him uh in the bar in the United States of America. Could you describe at least uh what his message was generally to the community?

27:29 No. Again, you know, he was uh he's being answered he's been asked in he's answering questions. So I he didn't come with any particular message. Um but I I'll just say that he's answered every single question uh to the satisfaction of any reasonable-minded person in that room. any conclusion that he reached at the end of his investigation that he disclosed with the committee on the deposition.

27:54 Well, uh his report speaks for itself in terms of uh January the 6 and the indictments that were handed down and the other report should be public. I mean that's just absolutely aberrational that it's not public just like his testimony should be public. Every other special counsel's been able to come here and testify. Robert Mueller's been able to testify. Robert Herr's been able to testify. All the special counelss and independent councils have come in and his second report on the retention of classified documents and what crimes may have been committed should also be released.

28:30 How would you um I think I'm I'm wearing the Jamie Rasking collection today with my loose with my loose tie. Uh, and to remind people, volume two, which is the the second volume of Jack Smith's report, a couple hundred pages, which was delivered to Merrick Garland, is now stuck in Alien Cannon's chambers and motion practice there about getting it released to the American people. Pam Bondi has buried volume two, just like she buried the Epstein files. It should have already been released to the American people, but of course, she's under orders by her boss, Donald Trump, not to do that. That's what Jamie Raskin was referring to there at the end. Um, Dina, why don't we uh take a few questions?

29:14 Um, I'll why don't I give you the first one? Okay. Ready? Okay. Here we go. Let me go through my questions here. Uh, yeah, that's true. Okay, we'll go to the Epstein Files. That'll help segue us when we come back from a break about Delane Maxwell from JJ Hastings. With the Epstein files release deadline imminent, what legal risks, including potential court challenges or claims of non-compliance arise from reported internal disputes within the FBI and DOJ leadership, and how might a high-profile resignation like Bonino's intersect intersect with those risks? That's pretty good. So Dan Bonino, deputy director of the FBI, resign. No surprise. He's hated that job from day one.

29:57 So why don't you take it? Epstein file release imminent. What if they don't get released? What what what happens? What about this FBI DOJ firefight? Is that going to somehow impact and back up on the now congressional law that the FC files must be released?

30:14 Well, that's that's the key word that this is now a law. It's not a letter. It's not a statement that they have to comply with. We have been concerned that the DOJ is going to point to the fact that they have an active investigation and withhold it in that respect. So you could have a situation where because there is a carve out in that law for being able to redact it for certain investigations. It's hard to for her to have said that there's a new investigation when she already said a few months ago that there was nothing there for an investigation. So it might go so let's say that happens, right? I know there's so many different scenarios. So in some ways a little bit hard to answer the question but that very specific scenario if that were to happen you would have like a for a fight in court basically of whether or not there was an active investigation and whether or not they um blocked the

31:04 release of appropriate amount of documents. It's interesting that we have not telegraphed anything and we are two days away at this point. So, that's interesting. And is that was a good interesting question about Dan um Van Gion because are they trying to make him the fall guy? Probably not. But that timing is interesting about that.

31:25 Absolutely. And let me let me take one and then we'll take a break. Uh this is from Dorothy Bernardo. Where are all the people who were held in the detention center in the Florida Everglades, which they like to call the uh uh Alligator Alcatra? Also, what's the status of the men in prison in El Salvador? And how will Nome be held accountable for ordering the planes to El Salvador after the court ordered them back? All right, let me see what I can do. This is going to be like a speed speed round. Uh, unfortunately, and I'm in Florida, the um alligator Alcatraz is still operational. Uh, it's it's supposed to have been wound down because of violation of environmental policy. The Seinal tribe is very upset about alligator Alcatraz operating in their historic lands, if you will, ancestral lands. And so they're working hard to try to shut that down as well. I I said the seminals. I think it's the Masukis,

32:23 another uh uh Indian uh America uh Native American uh group here in Florida. What's the status of the men imprisoned in El Salvador? They were all traded already. Well, if you're talking about the 250 Venezuelans who were sent to El Salvador, including uh Bgo Garcia, we know Garcia is back in the United States being held under supervision of Judge Zenis in Maryland. The other 250 that were the subject of of Chief Jeb Chief Judge Boseberg's grounding order uh in March were already traded by the Trump administration back to Venezuela in a prisoner exchange. So they're not even in El Salvador any longer. The ACLU continues to represent them, but they're doing it by by they're now in Venezuela.

33:12 I thought Venezuela, we were at war with Venezuela. Why are we sending enemy combatants back to Venezuela in exchange for who knows what? But that's happened. They are not in SECOT. There are other people bad people in SECOT and other people that shouldn't be in SECOT SECOT in El Salvador, but not those 250. And how will Nome be held accountable for ordering the planes? I mean, right now we've got a two to one Trumper-led panel in the District of Columbia that's blocking Judge Boseberg's continued contempt proceedings for criminal contempt and against Christine Gnome for uh allowing those planes to fly when the judge ordered them not to. But that same or similar composition of that panel has been overturned before by the full 20 or so judges of what we call the onbunk panel of the circuit court. So I mean we'll have to see. Right now he's being blocked. I assume the ACLU is going to go for an onbunk panel. We're going to

34:08 get the ACLU. I think I might have mentioned that the ACLU is now going to be regular contributors on Legal AF with their own playlist. sometimes in interviews with me or other other contributors like Dena talking about their cases, the lawyers that are in the courtrooms. I just did Legal Alert uh who is the head of the immigration unit for the ACLU who's involved in this case. I interviewed him about a week or a week or so ago. But great question. Really glad uh you're doing that. If you like this type of uh back and forth and interactivity where we take your questions and answer them, put it down in comments. my team will take a look and if maybe we'll throw up a poll when when we have a moment to see if people want us to do it and then we'll do a lot more of it because Dean and I enjoy it.

34:51 Karen and I enjoy it. All that good stuff. Many ways to support the legal AF universe. You can uh help us with the podcast which is regularly on audio in the top 75, 50, whatever it is. Go over to Apple and Spotify, all the places you get your podcast from. Leave a fivestar review and comments. We read those comments like we do tonight. Watch the show on YouTube. Send tell your friends about them. Bring them here. That's what put us in the top 50 or so of the top 100 podcast on uh YouTube. Uh it's that kind of uh audience support. And then we've got the Legal AF YouTube channel, which I talked about at the top of the show. And we've been flashing that 1 million that Salty, our editor, created last September or October for a long I've been staring at that million. Yeah.

35:41 As an incentive for a long time, but we are at about 990 could be 991,000 tonight. If we can get another handful tonight from this audience and we're going to have a couple hundred thousand people going to watch and listen to this this show tonight. If we could just get 2% 3% of that group to go over and go down below and hit the subscribe button. Come over to Legal A YouTube channel, hit the subscribe button, we'd be done. I only half joke, Dina, that with our 400 million views since last year overall for all the videos. If we just got 1%,

36:14 we'd be on the might as touch his heels. You know, it's hard to get it's I don't know why it's hard to get the conversion into subscriber thing. It's really just a button and and it's a way to vote. It's early voting. You like independent journalism, you like independent commentary, you like these kind of shows, this is what this is all you got to do and it is free. And then of course the other way is to support our legal af contributes there as well. Got a Substack there for people. We got some some amazing content even for our paid subscribers which is about6 or seven dollars a month. And then we've got these fantastic sponsors, some of which have been with, pardon me, with Legal AF like for four and a half to five years.

36:58 Some are more recent and uh and it keeps us on the air. I got an editor or two with us right now. I got a team that's looking at the chat. You know, we got to pay the bills. I you know, it's only we don't just have all volunteers. I mean, people keeps the lights on and that's the way to support us. So, I'm really proud to have our first set of sponsors, and here they are. Every holiday season, I try to make my famous mashed potatoes. Emphasis is on try. Let's just say last year they could have doubled as drywall paste. So, this year, I'm letting the pros handle it, no matter what you're craving. Small batch meals from Cook Unity's awardwinning chefs always hit the spot.

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40:25 You know, uh, while I was listening to our ads, we started the show with the depravity of of Donald Trump and attacking the Reiner Morning family and the rest of America. And then I got to read about this this walkway of presidential photos and presidential portraits that Donald Trump not only put up, you know, all of them, but now has put brass plaques underneath with his personal vendetta under each president like Barack Obama and Joe Biden. It's another example of wasteful taxpayer dollars because when the next president comes in, who's it going to be who's going to be a Democrat, we're have to spend all of this money to rip down all of this sophomoreic middle school Uh change back the names of the peace institute, change the, you know, if he if he tries to change the name of the ra of the Reagan International Airport, you know, if he puts his puts his name on this or that, we're just going to have to we're just

41:29 have to effing change it back. So, here's what he wrote under these descriptions for um Barack. Here's what he wrote for Barack Obama. Ready? This is in the White House.

41:41 Oh gosh. Barack Hussein Obama was the first black president, a community organizer, a one-term senator from Illinois and one of the most divisive political figures in American history.

41:54 Wow. uh he talks about the highly ineffective unaffordable care act and the one-sided Paris Accords. Okay. In for Bill Clinton, he also in the black about Bill Clinton, he points out Hillary Clinton's 26 loss 2016 loss to Trump. In 2016, President Clinton's wife Hillary lost the presidency to President Donald J. Trump with an exclamation mark. about Joe Biden. He wrote, "Sleepy Joe, this is on a brass plaque."

42:28 Wow. Sleepy Joe Biden was by far the worst president in American history, taking office as a result of the most corrupt election ever seen in the United States. Biden oversaw a series of unprecedented disasters that brought our nation to the brink of destruction. But despite it all, President Trump would get reelected in a landslide and save America. About Joe Biden. Oh my gosh.

42:51 I mean, when I'm sorry, who voted for this? And when is this person's time up? Yes.

42:58 And get him out. Tear down the ballroom that he'll never live to use. Guy doesn't like dinners. Melania abdicated her responsibilities as a first lady. Ivanka hasn't been seen at the White House. Who's going to host these state dinners in this ridiculous ballroom? Anyway, I felt like I felt like we had to talk about

43:17 Yeah. I mean, that's stunning. I mean, it's I don't It's like satire, but it's not. He's the biggest sore loser there is. Like, you won the election. He's still so petty and so upset about Obama will always be more popular than him and that he did lose to Joe Biden. And he's just a sore loser. And it and like I said, it would be not that bad if that didn't permeate into every little thing. I mean, this I don't want to

43:45 take too much away, but I kind of think that's why he's letting the a health care subsidy expire because Obama's name is on it. Yeah.

43:53 And he's going to want to come up with his own version that's not going to be as good for the American people and put Trump care on it. I mean, I think it's as simple as that. Like, he's just a very

44:01 bad but yet simple person. And about that ballroom, I think whatever is built, if it's built, hopefully that lawsuit can actually stop it from being built, which should be torn down. and the east wing should be built exactly how it used to be.

44:14 Yeah. Yeah. There I mean there you know you know Judge Leon is not going to stop the construction as of yet but the vertical construction of the ballroom hasn't happened yet and won't happen until April or so then he's going to revisit the issue and if it doesn't get approved and it doesn't go through the appropriate plans and and planning approvals and doesn't get approved by Congress or something else gets approved and get and he builds this monstrosity anyway. I think we're going to look at a tearown order or red tag by Judge Leyon.

44:43 Let's talk about Let's switch gears and talk about the Federal Communications Commission. Um, and Brendan Carr. Brendan Carr was a low-level staffer for the Federal Communications Commission 20 years ago, rose level of general counsel. Then he got on the commission in the first Trump term and then he tried out for was auditioning for to be the chairperson in Trump 2 and he did it by writing an entire chapter about the role of the Federal Communications Commission in wait for it put it in comments project 2025 the thing that Donald Trump said he didn't know what it was except half of his administration is tied to it

45:24 including you know Russ vote uh office of management and budget and here Brendan Carr And so Brandon Carr's position on how to wield power as the FCC chairperson uh came under fire today and this is his first appearance in an oversight committee hearing after he infamously went after Jimmy Kimmel like a mafioso you know you like that you know in ABC you like that license be terrible if something happened to it uh you know kind of threats um and also got wrapped around as Axel today trying to remember whether the FCC was an independent agency or not, which it is.

46:08 They had to scrub the website while he was testifying because, you know, he's so wrapped up because the Trump administration's position is that Donald Trump can fire all of these agencies and, you know, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Federal Trade Commission, Federal Communications Commission, and I'm not so sure about that when it comes to the FCC. Uh but he he uh you know he was doing the bidding. You know he'd been prepped obviously to uh within an inch of his life. And here's and here's how it played out.

46:37 Each one worse for him and the administration than the next. Let's lead off with Senator Amy Clolobashar.

46:45 Chairman Carr. In 2022 you tweeted, "Political satire is one of the oldest and most important forms of free speech. It challenges those in power while using humor to draw more people into the discussion. That's why people in influential positions have always targeted it for censorship. Yes or no? Do you still agree that political satire should be protected speech?

47:07 Yes, Senator. And whenever that satire or any other programming is over the public airways for broadcasters, there's a public interest standard and there's a news distortion rule, a broadcast hoax rule.

47:17 You answered it. You answered it. Yes. But I'm just opportunity rule. I'm going to go on President that particular instance too had to do with speech on social media where Biden administrations were trying to shut down political speech again an area where there is no license there's no public interest standard we'll get to that in a minute wide open I believe too that there is no place in chilling political satire but after Jimmy Kimmel's monologue you went on a podcast and suggested that ABC should take Kimmel off the air saying we can do this the easy way or the hard way those were your words. Do you think it is appropriate to use your position to threaten companies that broadcast political satire?

47:57 I think any lency that operates on the public airwaves has a responsibility to comply with the public interest standard and that's been the case for decades.

48:06 I asked if you should if you think it's appropriate for you to use your position to threaten companies and this incident with Kimmel wasn't an isolated event. uh you've launched investigations into every major broadcast network except Fox. Is that correct?

48:24 I don't know if that's true or not. We do have investigations going on NPR and PBS. We have a number of investigations that are ongoing. I think if you step back over the years, I think the FCC has walked away from enforcing the public interest standard. And I don't think that's a good thing. and and he's a liar because here is Brendan Carr um attacking and threatening Jimmy Kimmel and ABC with a right-wing podcaster. First of all, why is why is um Brendan Carr a member of the administration on a right-wing podcaster uh giving giving his uh opinions. I mean, look, we we had uh JD Vance and Steven Miller do a right-wing podcast from the White House, but uh let's play the clip of Carr threatening Kimmel that he now denies in response to uh Senator Clolobashar's questions.

49:14 But frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. these companies can find ways to change conduct and take action frankly uh on Kimmel or you know there's going to be additional work for the FCC again there's actions that we can take on licensed broadcasters and frankly I think that it's it's it's really sort of past time that a lot of these licensed broadcasters themselves push back on Comcast and Disney and say listen we are going to preempt we are not going to run Kimmel anymore until you straighten this out because we we licensed broadcaster are running the possibility of fines or license revocations from the FCC if we continue to run content that ends up being a pattern of news distortion. So,

50:00 the commentary by Jimmy Kimmel after the death of Charlie Kirk is news distortion. So you see he's a he's a liar and a guy went downhill from there and then he got tongue tied about whether the FCC which reflects on its own website until he started giving his testimony now been scrubbed that they are an independent regulatory body that serves the public interest. Watch this Q&A with a senator and Mr. um Carr Commissioner Carr uh about whether his organization his entity is uh independent or not. Chairman Carr, yes or no? And please, yes or no. Is the FCC an independent agency?

50:41 Uh, Senator, thanks for that question. I think yes or no is all we need, sir. Yes or no. Is it independent?

50:46 Well, there's a test for this in the law in the the key portion of that test yes or no, Brendan.

50:50 The key portion of that test is Okay, I'm going to go to commissioner trustee. So, just so you know, Brendan, on your website, it just simply says, man, the FCC is independent. This isn't a trick question.

51:00 Okay. The FCC is not is not is not. So is your website wrong? Is your website line?

51:06 Possibly. The FCC is not an independent agency. Okay. Can I read this to you? The FCC's mission on the homepage of the FCC. Man, an independent US government agency overseen by Congress. Is that factual or is that a lie?

51:19 The FC is not formally an independent agency. Is this true or is this a lie? I I can I'm happy to answer your question.

51:25 Chairman, I have a little bit of a time. I'll get back to you. Yes. Is not an independent agency formally speaking. Appreciate you saying that and being honest with the American people. Commissioner Trusty,

51:33 thank you for the question. The president is the chief chief executive bested with all executive power in our government and FCC commissioners are not we do not have four cause removal protections which means that we aren't independent.

51:44 So is the is your website lying? I can't speak to the website. I've not seen that.

51:48 You all are the commissioners in charge of this place, right? So this stuff has to be approved by one of you. If if this is lying, then you should just fix it. That Let me just say that. That wasn't even my gotcha question. I'm surprised that I've burned up three minutes talking about this damn thing. Commissioner Gomez.

52:03 Yes, and we should be. I I appreciate that. Well, Mr. Chairman, if I could just submit the print out of the homepage of the FCC into the record, man. It says it's an independent agency and if it's not true, then change it without objection.

52:17 And they went and changed it uh during that um right or just following that testimony. This is all today, by the way. Now, let's turn to New Jersey. People know I'm from New Jersey. Uh, one of the newest senators, Senator Andy Kim. Um, by the way, I just love the way that guy, that senator did the cross- examination. Come on, man. Just level with the American people. It's simple yes or no question. Uh, let's look at Senator Andy Kim and his cross-examination of Mr. Carr. 's decision about what stories to cover and how to frame them should be beyond the reach of any government official.

52:54 Nope, that's the wrong one, everybody. Senator Andy Kim, not Senator Marky. Let's try to get the Kim one up. Can we get it? It's in there somewhere. All right, let's skip Senator Kim. Let's go to Senator Marky. 's decision about what stories to cover and how to frame them should be beyond the reach of any government official, not targeted by them by government officials. Do you stand by that statement? This was a letter written by Senate, sorry, House Democrats to cable companies pressuring them to drop Fox News, OAN, and Newsmax simply because you stand by your state.

53:41 Do you stand by your statement? Yes, I do. I think that's inappropriate what the Democrats

53:45 Okay, good. I I just want to I just want to get your own views out here on the record for people to hear. So, in February, under your leadership, the Federal Communications Commission opened an investigation into a San Francisco radio station over its coverage of a federal immigration raid. A FCC investigation is a big deal for a local station. In a worst case scenario, the FCC could shut down the station by revoking its license. In fact, you have repeatedly suggested over the past year that the FCC could revoke station licenses. Yet, this investigation was based solely on the news content of the radio station's coverage of an immigration raid. I have the entire news statement that they put out that day.

54:32 This happens every day everywhere across the country for broadcast journalists. This investigation was based solely on this very brief statement that is in everyday coverage. And I have that transcript and the anchor was literally reporting on the information that was released by the mayor, by the local city council member and a community group. So, you're telling me that reporting on statements from public officials and a community group is grounds for an FCC investigation? Senator, the concern there in the report was that there may have been interference with lawful ICE operations and so we were asking questions about what happened. This was a period of time, remember, when ICE agents were being attacked. Their locations, undercover locations were being disclosed.

55:21 There is nothing in here that discloses anything. There's no risk to anyone except they can provide that to us.

55:27 No, no. The risk that y that's posed here is to you to the broadcast journalist coverage and that's what really happened. The news journalists were just covering an important news story and some conservatives were upset by the coverage. So you use your power as FCC chair to hang a sort of damocles over a local radio station's head. And that's precisely what you warned about in 2022. the government targeting a newsroom's editorial decision. Well, guess what happened? The station demoted the anchor who first read that news report over the air and pulled back on his political coverage. You got what you wanted. One former journ journalist at the station said, "Chilling effect does not begin to describe the neutering of our

56:14 and there was Senator Marky." So, uh, Dena, what did you make of, um, now that we put all the receipts on the table, what did you make of Brendan Carr's performance today? And there's now calls, especially by the Democrats, to have him removed

56:31 as the FCC chair. What did you make of it? I mean, he should be removed. It's an obvious abuse of power, both what he said about Jimmy Kimmel and then the story that Senator Marky talked about with the investigation basically shutting down local news. I mean, here's the thing. There is not a question that it is an independent agency under the current law. It is true that Trump just, you know, you and I on unprecedented just talked about the Supreme Court hearing last week where they are trying to change that. That may happen, but as of today, it is clearly an independent agency. And maybe the theme is their incompetence in their websites here.

57:08 They're trying to do illegal things so quickly, they can't even catch up with their website. But the Congress created the FCC and created an act specifically. He talks about public interest standard a lot. And I just want to mention that really quickly because this is so when Congress established it, the Communications Act of 1934, they said that the FCC uh would regulate, approve licenses, approve mergers, all to make sure that our airwaves are in the public interest. And that public interest standard is not defined in that act. But for the entire time it has been made to be it's been interpreted as making sure that people have access to airwaves that there's competition in the airwaves.

57:56 Never anything like this where a certain viewpoint is put out on the airwaves and we're going to come in and use our power to take that down really to limit free speech which is what Brendan Carr is trying to do. But you see what project 2025 MAGA and all them are trying to use that public interest standard which is just a matter of making sure we all really have fair access to our airwaves. And of course they're trying to interpret it as saying really the public interest is just hearing our viewpoint.

58:30 Yeah. And and then pass a anti-distortion law. Distorting how? I mean Amy Clolobashar had the most devastating uh uh cross-examination. It was buried in her question which was you've started dozens of investigations against media outlets except Fox. Yeah.

58:49 And then he admitted he goes yeah we're going after PBS and NPR. Oh my god. PBS and are we going after Big Bird again? I mean, what is going on

58:58 here again? Here's my new tagline. Who voted for this? But but you voted for us and to be together with us here on a on a pre-H holiday. And it shows why, you know, you you've been talking a lot about almost getting to a million for your legal AF, but it shows why it's so important because, you know, we do have a few years left for Trump and the Supreme Court hasn't come saved us that many times. And it they may shut down a lot of what we need to hear on our public airwaves. And it does make this new media so so incredibly critical right now.

59:31 And thanks to our audience because I did check and we rolled the odometer one more time while we're here. I feel like the old Jerry Lewis teleathon. We're up to 991,000 uh during the show. And I made it easy. I had them uh adjust the notes while we've been on the air. Go down to the notes. There should be a link there. Take you right to the Legal AF YouTube channel. If not, you'll have to bounce out to the Legal AF YouTube channel and then come back and hit the subscribe button there. But either way, that's the way to help support what we do. We love you being a part of the Legal AF community. Some of you have been here for all the more than five years since Ben and I founded it. um uh oh so long ago and have helped us stay at the top top top tippy top of the charts. That's all because of you and we appreciate each and every one of you and um we're just humbled by the success that we've

1:00:18 had on the Midas touch network and on legal a in particular. And then of course the other way to support us is we talked about the legal f YouTube channel. Legal AF Substack become a part of that community. That's a vibrant community with over 120 130,000 people on it already. and paid membership gets you access to all sorts of interesting uh nuggets in the law and politics intersection. And then we've got our sponsors. And now is the holidays. And so our sponsors are all geared up to help you with your with your holiday purchases. These are items and products that have been screened and cultivated, curated by the brothers, Jordy in particular. Ben, the podcasters use them and we like them. And then you know uh we're not trying to put our hand in your pocket. But if you have some disposable income and you think these things are interesting, we did then support them.

1:01:06 They support us. It is one of the levers that keeps our independent commentary and journalism and honest reporting on the air. And so you know uh so that the FCC does decide one day why don't we regulate YouTube? Yeah.

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1:04:43 Is that an old ad?" No, I just did it recently. Um, all right. Let's move on to our last couple of topics today. Hannah Dugan, Judge Dugan, and Maxwell. You want to take Judge Dugan and what's going on?

1:04:53 Sure. Sure. Prosecutors having rested today. Yeah. So, so I think people kind of remember, you set it up in the beginning. she the actions she took around the person who was in the courtroom in front of her during her hearing whether or not it was criminal. The prosecutor is trying to say that she told the ICE agent to leave out of a side door and she did that in order to evade the ICE basically detaining him and this was an obstruction. You know, I here's for me the crux of this and why this is so important and why we're paying attention to it is because the action she took she took while she was on the bench in the middle of her day. Let's say she was in an official capacity. Her action was an official capacity. And and yes, I'm say using those words specifically because the idea is is that judges have immunity for they have civil immunity for their official actions. Prior to the Trump

1:05:55 decision, the Trump immunity decision, the president had civil immunity for their official conduct. There was a similarity there. There is much there is a lot of difference to judges when they are in their official capacity. when they she has a the the judge is the king of their courtroom and she has quite a bit of say of how to manage her courtroom. And that is really what her defense is arguing is that she didn't try she wasn't intentionally trying to help him evade you know um capture that this was her managing her courtroom and as such she has deference this is an official capacity. I think this is interesting. If she does get a conviction here, does she take this to the Supreme Court? And does she argue that this is a co-equal branch of government and that judges should have criminal immunity when they are acting in their official capacity just as the president?

1:06:53 Yeah. I mean, right now, you know, there was about a dozen witnesses that testified on behalf of the prosecution, including a chief judge and a number of other judges. There was some um testimony also by a court reporter who worked often with the judge. And the all the question is whether she diverted a defendant and a lawyer to a separate stairway in order for them to evade ICE that was in the hallway ready to make an arrest.

1:07:20 Mhm. Yes or no? And there's conflicting testimony about whether she did or didn't do that or whether she was directing the people to go out into the public hallway and not try to get them into the staircase. And um there there was enough conflicting testimony about that particular issue that I think that create that should have created reasonable doubt. Certainly one that the defense team will harp on when they when the case turns to them and they start either recalling some of these witnesses or new witnesses. I don't know if if Judge Dugan is going to take the stand.

1:07:51 It' be quite a spectacle that have a sitting she's on she's she's suspended with pay but or she's on leave with pay uh from her court position but um you know her position as we've heard before from her lawyers is that like you said she is the guardian of her courtroom. She did not want um her courtroom to be the scene of federal ICE warrant administr not even judge issued warrants, administrative warrants to be used to pick up people because she didn't want criminal defendants to go underground. But you know, this guy was this guy was indicted for strang strangling his girlfriend or the woman in his life. And you know, if the message gets out, don't go to court, you know, hide because you're going to go you're going to get deported on top of it. That's not good for the criminal justice system uh in Milwaukee. And so there's that whole battle going on. And why can't you pick him up outside? They

1:08:47 eventually arrested him. I mean, just wait out if you knew he was if if ICE knew, which they did, this guy was going to be in a hearing 8:00 in the morning in front of Judge Dugan. Let him go in go through a metal detector. So now you know he doesn't have any weapons. And we'll let him walk out with his his lawyer arm in arm and then arrest him outside. And that's the point. Why does it have to be done with a spectacle in the hallway or in a courtroom while everything else is going on and exploiting those resources? And you know, I think there's going to be a lot of that in the defense as well when they start cross-examining the ICE agents, which hasn't happened yet. That'll really happen in earnest when the case is now turns tomorrow to the defense.

1:09:30 And um will will will the judge take the stand? I'm not sure. Normally I would say no because she doesn't have an obligation to but she might.

1:09:39 She might. I mean I think she has a really strong argument. Judges have very strong interest to have manage their courtroom as they want. You know we don't have a free speech right to go in there and just scream and say whatever we want. I mean you and I have been in courtrooms plenty of times and they they they govern it like an iron fist. And there is there is precedent for the idea of a judge creating rules in her courtroom or decorum or what's allowed and not allowed. And here they were going to create a spectacle and interfere with her case management whether or not it was that case or the case after. I mean some I don't know how many cases she had but I know a judge who has like 3,000 cases to manage. Right. Oh yeah. There is this idea that we give difference to judges or other officials to do their jobs. And uh so I think that's a strong defense on her part. But I'm definitely keeping an eye on it because if she is

1:10:32 convicted, I think that she should argue to the Supreme Court that she deserves the same type of immunity as the president.

1:10:39 Yeah, agreed. Adam Glasfeld, who's with us on on with All Rise News on Legal AF, I think he and I are going to do a live report because he's in Milwaukee in the courtroom. He's been doing some great uh social media posting about it, but I'm going to get him on the air. We were going to do it early tomorrow morning before he steps into the courtroom, but I wanted it I really wanted him to get another a first day of the defense.

1:11:03 Yeah. And then get the flavor of that and then report to our audience. So, tomorrow and we'll probably get it up um it'll be end of his day, so we'll get it up on Friday uh for people to understand what's happening in that in the Dugan case. And let's now turn finally to Galain Maxwell. I'll set it I'll tee it up and I'll turn it over to you, Dina. We got convicted child sex trafficker and friend of Donald Trump, uh, Galain Maxwell, who's been lobbying for a pardon ever since she got sentenced to 20 years in jail for five count felony conviction 12-0 front of a federal jury in New York and sentenced by Judge Nathan because she committed a crime of depravity, of immorality, uh, illegality and and participated in the rape of girls. I mean, another way to going to sugarcoat this. This is what this is what she did. I know I if I didn't know what she did, I would know what she did last week when Judge Angelmeer, who

1:12:01 supervises her case in New York, wrote almost exactly that in his decision to release the grand jury transcripts based on the Epstein law that just got passed because he wanted to remind the world of what a heinous criminal she is that's been lobbying to get out of jail. Now, we knew that she was going to we we suspected that she she had gotten fired from her by her CL by her lawyer that her lawyer fired her and David Oscar Marcus who was all puffed up when he thought, you know, he could get her a pardon or get her clemency. And I think the air came out of the balloon when he figured out that she probably didn't tell the truth to the Department of Justice and hit her in her interview when she was vouching for Donald Trump's character as a child sex trafficker. Uh and then when subsequent emails and other thousands of pages of documents came out of the Epstein estate, including her emails that put a lie in

1:12:59 most of her testimony, I think David Oscar Marcus was like, "I'm out." So she wants she filed today a jail house version because she did it herself or with help inside the jail without a lawyer a writ of habius corpus and that is to argue finally last gasp that she has some sort of right even though she's been denied her she lost her appeal she lost her appeal to the United States Supreme Court she never and let me just make this clear she had competent counsel all along the way. She never she didn't represent herself in the trials. And in those cases, when they were done, she filed an appeal. She did not argue that there was juror misconduct. She did not argue that there was judge misconduct.

1:13:46 She did not argue that a witness went on that shouldn't have went on or a witness didn't go on that should have gone on or vice versa or that evidence came in that shouldn't have or evidence didn't come in that what she made no arguments about her trial. And you're entitled to a fair trial in America under the Sixth Amendment. You are not entitled, nor has there ever been such a thing as a perfect trial, but you have to have what's called reversible error. Things that the judge has done wrong that would lead to the reversal of your conviction.

1:14:19 She never argued any of that at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York. And she never argued that at the United States Supreme Court. She argued not that she wasn't guilty. She argued that she was the beneficiary of a nonprosecution agreement that was entered into between Jeffrey Epstein and his lawyer Alan Dersowitz, the Harvard law professor who handled his case and the then US attorney for Miami, Alex Acasta. And that even though she didn't sign that agreement, she wasn't mentioned in that agreement. She says, "Oh, it says Epstein and maybe others."

1:14:52 No. And so she only argued that she had an immunity almost like Trump argument a a um nonprosecution agreement. Well, second circuit didn't buy it and neither did neither did the United States Supreme Court. So now she's left with writing these rits of habius corpus. By the way, I think she filed it in the wrong court. I think she has to file it in Texas where she is not in New York with Judge Angelmire who handled her case. I don't know if you had a chance to see this ramblings of a mad woman. Did you see her writ? Um,

1:15:24 yeah. Why don't you tell your audience what you made of it? Yeah. So, this is, you really teed it up, but this is postconviction. You technically a criminal conviction at the trial court level, whether or not by jury or judge, isn't considered final until they have exhausted all their appeals. She did that, as you said, when the US Supreme Court declined to reverse it. So, this is considered a postconviction. It is that last gasp. The standard is so incredibly high to get your conviction overturned at this point. It's like, is there a manifest miscarriage of justice? Extremely high.

1:15:58 The irony I did take a look at it. The the one thing that you always argue in a habius corpus petition is ineffective assistance of counsel because your argument is my lawyer didn't appeal the fact that they allowed in a witness to um lie and he never objected or whatever. All those things that maybe um you didn't get a chance to appeal or you didn't think of appealing, you're going to argue in your habius corpus, but you have to say you had ineffective assistance counsel. You have to say that your lawyer was so bad they didn't even appeal these issues with my conviction.

1:16:37 Not only were they bad at trial, but then I wasn't able to get my proper appeal. And so this is a miscarriage of justice so extreme that we need to step in. So she fails to bring in the most important crucial point of it is that there was ineffective assistance of counsel. These kind of petitions are hail Marys no matter what. here. She had a really well-known lawyer, month-long trial, jury conviction. She didn't argue appeal of the evidence because the evidence was extremely strong. We're seeing it, as you said, with the jury testimony. I mean, I've read about it with Julie um um Virginia Frey's book. I mean, she was a co-conspirator in every sense of the world and really disgusting the what she herself did, not just Epstein. So, it's a long shot to begin with. It's an extra long shot because she failed to even argue an effective assistance of counsel and she did have a fair trial at the end of the day. So

1:17:32 whether or not this is a matter of uh I guess her just doing her last hail Mary, her trying to gain Trump's attention for a pardon, you know, we'll see. But I think we can be very confident that she will get this denied.

1:17:46 Oh yeah. I think Judge Judge Angle Meyer will deny it. My only my only I'll leave it on this. My only fear is that it'll be an opening for the Department of Justice run by Donald Trump to somehow help her with her petition and not oppose it or you know are we watching a you know Kabuki theater choreographed orchestrated? I don't think so. But I don't know. And you know you know you can just hear Donald Trump up at a podium. Although, you know, I don't want to ever hear him do this, but you could just hear him say, "Well, you know, there's good people on both sides of a child sex trafficking ring." And u she's a victim, too, I guess. And there is a rid of habius corpus that's, you know, I've been told may have some merit. So, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to let her out. Look at all the people he's let out. You know, every financial every financial fraudster he can get his hands on, he lets out of jail. you know, the

1:18:43 the ex-Honduran president that's responsible for the the most major cocaine drug trafficking in America, serving 45 years in jail, just walked out of prison. So, would any does anybody shock us that that Donald Trump, after we just read all those plaques he just wrote about presidents, would would take the political heat and let her out of jail? I mean, we'll have to see. But anyway,

1:19:06 the question is, will it benefit him? I mean, he's a simple person. At the end of the day, he's very simple. will it benefit him or not? And that we don't know because we don't know what she knows that we don't know. But if if he thinks it's going to benefit her, he'll do it. And as you said, and this could tee him up to saying, "Oh, it's an advocate, you know, an activist judge who dismissed her appeal or whatever." He doesn't need an excuse. He does what he wants to do. Yeah.

1:19:29 But for the sake of the victims, let's hope this gets denied and and she stays in jail and frankly gets back up to the level of um the jail system that she should be in.

1:19:39 Absolutely. We're glad you're all here. We've reached the end of Legal AF. Dina Dal with me today on our midweek edition Saturday. It'll be Ben Meelis and me. We do hot takes at the intersection of law and politics about every hour either on the Midas Touch Network or where, wait for it, legal af. We picked up another thousand while we're on the air, which is fantastic. I think this group alone will put us over the threshold and we could pop the cork on 1 million subscribers before uh Christmas kicks in and we we'd all be thrilled if that were to happen. Legal AF Substack the other way of course to support what we do. Um it's another kind of uh group and it's where I can also do live reporting that I can't do on Legal AF YouTube channel. something like comes up like right after I did a video, boom, there's a development. I get everybody together in a live and we and we do everything there. So, if you don't know

1:20:34 about Substack or you don't know about legal AF Substack, please come over there. Otherwise, everybody get either in their holidays, day four of Hanukkah, and our hearts and prayers go out to the Bondi Beach massacre victims uh and of course to what happened in Brown uh University with the students and the student uh body there. Uh in the in the middle of a holy week for many people in America and otherwise. Uh but we're gearing as we're into that holiday season. Uh we do are we are grateful for our audience and their fervent support and I'm grateful to have you. Tina Doll is a close friend of mine and we're glad you're all here. So until our next show, shout out to the mightest mighty and the legal affers.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "LIVE: Jack Smith RETURNS for VENGEANCE + BREAKING LEGAL NEWS | Legal AF"?

Michael Popok (Host), Dena Dahl (Host), Jack Smith (Guest), Andrew Weissmann (Guest), Dr. Tory Waxman (Guest).

What is "LIVE: Jack Smith RETURNS for VENGEANCE + BREAKING LEGAL NEWS | Legal AF" about?

The discussion centers on Jack Smith's forceful condemnation of Donald Trump as a criminal, accompanied by significant testimony that highlights the tensions between Trump and oversight committees. The analysis also touches on recent legal challenges involving figures in Trump's administration and their implications for his public persona and upcoming announcements.

What is mentioned in this MeidasTouch episode?

64 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Oversight Committee, Hannah Dugan, Unprecedented, Jamie Raskin, writ of habeas corpus, Ed Markey. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "LIVE: Jack Smith RETURNS for VENGEANCE + BREAKING LEGAL NEWS | Legal AF"?

The episode runs 1 h 21 min; the transcript is about 14,553 words in 149 timestamped sections.

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