Transcript

LIVE: Popok Gives URGENT UPDATE on Breaking Legal news | 2/3/2026

From MeidasTouch · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 16 min · 13,237 words · 113 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "LIVE: Popok Gives URGENT UPDATE on Breaking Legal news | 2/3/2026", an episode of MeidasTouch published February 4, 2026 (1 h 16 min, about 13,237 words). It mentions 21 people, works and ideas, including Donald Trump, ICE, Department of Justice, Bob Simon, Renee Mlin Good.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on a shocking incident where Department of Justice lawyers expressed despair over their inability to address ICE's violations of court orders, highlighting deep concerns about the agency's actions under the Trump administration. The conversation also explores the role of the Democrats in conducting oversight hearings regarding ICE's treatment of individuals, emphasizing ongoing accountability issues related to civil rights and liberties in the United States.

Key takeaways

  • When DOJ lawyers cry for a break, it’s clear America's legal system is in crisis mode.
  • ICE's blatant court order violations reveal a deeper systemic rot—accountability seems like a fairy tale.
  • In Trump’s world, federal judges are overwhelmed, while constitutional rights take a backseat to chaos.
  • Democrats may be the last line of defense, but where's the passionate GOP for civil liberties?
  • The Epstein files saga underscores a scary truth: transparency is the new conspiracy in Washington.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Donald Trump, Department of Justice, Bob Simon, Sky Perryman
  2. – 20:00: Donald Trump, Jill Burman, Department of Justice, Alvin K. Hellerstein
  3. – 30:00: Bob Simon, Donald Trump, ICE, Renee Mlin Good
  4. – 40:00: Renee Mlin Good, Bob Simon, Donald Trump
  5. – 50:00: Donald Trump, Fourth Amendment, Renee Mlin Good, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)
  6. – 1:00:00: Democracy Forward, Renee Mlin Good, Donald Trump, Bob Simon
  7. – 1:10:00: Department of Justice, Democracy Forward
  8. – 1:16:25: Donald Trump, Democracy Forward, Sky Perryman, Bob Simon

Notable quotes from "LIVE: Popok Gives URGENT UPDATE on Breaking Legal news | 2/3/2026"

  • Federal detention so they can get some shutye and at the same time admit that ICE, their client, is violating court orders and they can't do anything about it. things in…
    about ICE · at
  • It's the judiciary committee. It's bringing in Renee Good's brothers to testify. Three or four other people who have been shot or maimed or wounded or threatened by ICE. It's not just Renee Good and Alex Pritty. That's bad enough.
    about Renee Mlin Good · at
  • Memo revealed by two whistleblowers in which Todd Lions, here's the visual, folks, took the US Constitution and the Fourth Amendment and took a blowtorrch to it. Gone. You…
    about Fourth Amendment · at
  • Files that haven't yet been produced, files that need to be the subject of another Epstein Transparency Act, if you can believe it. There needs to be one not just about the FBI…
    about Epstein Transparency Act · at
  • Tomorrow we're going to talk about today. one in front of Judge Hellerstein about whether Donald Trump's going to be able to drag his state criminal conviction 34 counts…
    about Donald Trump · at
  • Administration, Christine Gnome, Pam Bondi, Donald Trump, Greg Bevino, you name it, accountable, accountable.
    about Attorney General Pam Bondi · at
  • Perryman, a founder of Democracy Forward. She and her organization just got an amazing new ruling from Judge Gia Cobb that puts again House Democrats back in the game to…
    about Sky Perryman · at
  • And here we go. Related to that, so let's start with the Epstein files. first we got a hearing tomorrow led by the survivors and victims in front of Judge Burman who along with…
    about Jill Burman · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Donald Trump — Person · Primary referenced political actor · 28 mentions · first at
    Framed as the driving force behind DOJ/ICE actions, alleged court-order defiance, and broader rule-of-law breakdown; also tied to discussion of Epstein files and the hush-money conviction removal attempt.
  • Bob Simon — Person · Main guest (segment interviewee) · 9 mentions · first at
    Introduced as a civil-rights/plaintiffs lawyer reporting from congressional oversight hearings and discussing legislative fixes (e.g., liability/qualified immunity) and victim testimony.
    I'm going to have two special guests tonight. Yes, it's a twofur here on the intersection. I'm going to start with Bob Simon, civil rights lawyer, plaintiffs lawyer…
  • Renee Mlin Good — Person · Referenced victim central to oversight hearing narrative · 8 mentions · first at
    Her death is used as a focal example in congressional oversight testimony and debate about ICE conduct and accountability; her family members testify.
  • Sky Perryman — Person · Main guest (segment interviewee) · 6 mentions · first at
    Founder of Democracy Forward; discussed winning a ruling from Judge Jia Cobb enabling congressional oversight access to ICE facilities without onerous notice requirements.
  • Jill Burman — Person · Referenced judge (Epstein victims hearing) · 4 mentions · first at
    Presiding over a hearing about Epstein-file releases that allegedly doxed/retraumatized victims; discussed as potentially limited but pressured to provide oversight/protection.
  • Alvin K. Hellerstein — Person · Referenced judge (upcoming hearing) · 2 mentions · first at
    Federal judge presiding over hearing on whether Trump can remove the NY hush-money conviction case to federal court based on immunity arguments.
    Talk about it. Two major hearings tomorrow we're going to talk about today. one in front of Judge Hellerstein about whether Donald Trump's going to be able to drag his state…
  • Judge Gia Cobb — Person · Referenced judge (Democracy Forward win) · 2 mentions · first at
    Issued the ruling described as restoring/strengthening congressional oversight access to ICE facilities, central to Sky Perryman’s segment.
    Perryman, a founder of Democracy Forward. She and her organization just got an amazing new ruling from Judge Gia Cobb that puts again House Democrats back in the game to…
  • Michael Popach — Person · Referenced host/creator figure (show branding) · 3 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the namesake/host figure of 'the intersection with Michael Popac' and tied to the Legal AF/Midas Touch ecosystem; also referenced via 'POPAC firm'.
    Interactions with ICE, shot at, shot, maimed. and he and other lawyers like him and people that are affiliated with the POPAC firm are representing these people, these human…
  • Attorney General Pam Bondi — Person · Referenced government official (criticized) · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited as part of the Trump-aligned DOJ leadership blamed for worsening conditions and lack of accountability; named among officials to be held accountable.
  • Galane Maxwell — Person · Referenced figure in Epstein network discussion · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned in connection with Robert Maxwell and alleged links among Epstein, Russia/Putin, money flows, and blackmail narratives.
    Everybody. Get your big homeland board with your red strings because we're going to connect the dots to Epstein to Putin to the child sex trafficking ring to money to Robert…
  • Alex Pritty — Person · Referenced victim (paired with Renee Good) · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as another harmed individual in the oversight narrative about ICE violence/abuse; used to emphasize scale and severity beyond a single case.
    Oversight committee hearing, a lot of the survivors went and testified, including they had the brothers of Renee Good, and it was honestly incredibly powerful to hear them talk…

Companies & orgs

  • ICE — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at
    Central to discussions about immigration policies and legal violations
  • Department of Justice — Company · Business focus · 12 mentions · first at
    Discussed in context of legal violations and oversight
    When Department of Justice lawyers break down in tears and beg to be sent to federal detention so they can get some shutye and at the same time admit that ICE, their client, is violating court.
  • Democracy Forward — Company · Case study · 11 mentions · first at
    Highlighted for its legal actions against ICE and government policies
    Trump world, unless the Democrats have their way, calling light to it. and public interest groups like Democracy Forward, American Civil Liberties Union, and the rest run into court to get that memo rescended.
  • American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) — Company · Case study · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as a key organization defending civil liberties
    Their way, calling light to it. and public interest groups like Democracy Forward, American Civil Liberties Union, and the rest run into court to get that memo rescended.
  • Survivor Strategies — Company · Case study · 1 mention · first at
    Highlighted for its work with survivors of abuse
    Scenes for quite some time, but I'll I'll I'll break some news here on the intersection. The Pope firm and legal AF is joining forces with a group called Survivor Strategies…
  • Midas Touch Network — Company · Business focus · 3 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the platform hosting the podcast
    Midas is this close to 6 million subscribers. I think the legal AF audience and the intersection audience had a little something to say about that. And so I want you to try to.
  • SiriusXM — Company · Incidental · 4 mentions
    Mentioned in passing without significant context

Concepts & topics

  • Fourth Amendment — Concept · Key argument · 3 mentions · first at
    Central to discussions about constitutional rights violations
  • Epstein Transparency Act — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed in the context of legal actions and document releases
  • Operation Metro Surge — Concept · Key argument · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed in the context of immigration enforcement actions
    Many of them. And every time we watch and talk about operation metro surge, remember at the end of that spear by the I by ICE and by Donald Trump and Border Patrol are hundreds…

Full transcript with timestamps

When Department of Justice lawyers break down in tears and beg to be sent to federal detention so they can get some shutye and at the same time admit that ICE, their client, is violating court orders and they can't do anything about it. You know, things in Minnesota and around the country have gone to hell in a hand basket at the direction of Donald Trump and his corrupt Department of Justice. And no more Pam Bondi in Minnesota is not making things better. It's making things gain said worse. We're going to talk about what's happening with the Department of Justice. Why a Department of Justice attorney broke down in tears today in federal court. What it means is that the canary in the coal mine for what is happening. And then as long as we're on ice and how to apply heat to melt it, let's talk about the Democrats. And yes, I would I would say by the way, I don't want people coming to the intersection

with Michael Popac if I didn't do the introduction and saying he Popach never shows the clips of Republican elected officials standing up for the constitutional and civil rights and liberties of Americans. You know why? Because there aren't any. I would show I would love to show them. My producers would love to find them. I assure you I I would I would I would do it, but there aren't any. And so when I say the Democrats are the ones that are holding the oversight committee hearings today and and we have reporting from the halls of Congress, I mean it's the Democrats.

It's the judiciary committee. It's bringing in Renee Good's brothers to testify. Three or four other people who have been shot or maimed or wounded or threatened by ICE. It's not just Renee Good and Alex Pritty. That's bad enough. There are 40 or 50 other people who no longer exist. They are unal alive. Is that the phrase? At the hands of ICE in detention or on the streets of America. So, we're going to talk about the oversight committee hearings. What's happening in the courtrooms? What's happening with the federal judges who are under siege themselves in Minnesota?

You think the 2,000 insurrectionists that attacked the capital? You think that backlogged and backed up on the district courts in DC? They have a lot of judges. They could handle it. Minnesota federal judges, there not that many of them. And every time we watch and talk about operation metro surge, remember at the end of that spear by the I by ICE and by Donald Trump and Border Patrol are hundreds thousands of people who are now in the criminal justice system in the immigration system through rits of habius corpus petitions that have to end up in front of federal judges.

And then what do you think federal judges are doing? They're throwing up their hands and saying like Judge Schultz, the chief judge of the Minnesota uh uh district courts, he threw up his hands and said, well, he didn't throw up his hands. He's about to throw the book. He said in the last month, in January alone, ICE violated at leastund 100 orders throughout the district related to habius corpus and other things. And he said if it happens one more time, and it's already happened, it happens one more time, he's going to hold Todd Lions in contempt, the head of ICE. Todd Lion's also the subject of a new resolution and bill by the House Democrats and House senators, I mean the Democratic senators to have him rescend the May 2025 secret now not so secret memo revealed by two whistleblowers in which uh uh Todd Lions, here's the visual, folks, took the US Constitution and the Fourth Amendment and took a

blowtorrch to it. Gone. You don't need a federal judge, independent article 3 judge who's neutral and dispassionate to issue an arrest warrant to burst through your house, your front door, maybe while I'm on live here on the intersection. Oh, no. A Trump immigration judge and a piece of paper stamped by a Trump judge, handed to a Trump uh agent, executed by a Trump official. That's all you need in Trump world, unless the Democrats have their way, calling light to it. and public interest groups like Democracy Forward, American Civil Liberties Union, and the rest run into court to get that memo rescended.

And we we'll talk about that. I want to talk about Epstein files, the files that exist, the files that don't exist, the files that haven't yet been produced, files that need to be the subject of another Epstein Transparency Act, if you can believe it. There needs to be one not just about the FBI and the Department of Justice documents. There need to be ones about the Treasury Department documents, the Internal Revenue Service documents and new reporting about connect the dots. Get get your big get your big board everybody. Get get your big homeland board with your red strings because we're going to connect the dots to Epstein to Putin to the child sex trafficking ring to money to Robert Maxwell the father of Galain Maxwell and then Donald Trump and Russian money and Russian money and Russian money and we'll do all that because it's all out there. New old allegations resurfacing, new allegations being made, all coming

out of the Epstein files. while the victims and their survivors and as people know I represent one Lisa Phillips are going to federal court tomorrow because in the 3 million document data dump which is either one half or onetenth of what exists just in the department of justice just in the FBI they outed and doxed and retraumatized more than 500 victims they said there are taking their time because they had to get victim's names and photos and videos out. Yeah, there are they are out. They're out in public. And now, Judge Burman. I don't know what he's going to do about it, but we'll talk about it. Two major hearings tomorrow we're going to talk about today. one in front of Judge Hellerstein about whether Donald Trump's going to be able to drag his state criminal conviction 34 counts related to hush money cover up and Stormmy Daniels and related to Michael Cohen and uh his sentencing drag it over to federal court

or not. Yeah. Back in the news, back in front of 94year-old senior federal judge Helerstein. That's tomorrow. The Epstein hearing tomorrow. So, I want to bring you all up to speed on that. And then I'm going to have two special guests tonight. Yes, it's a twofur here on the intersection. I'm going to start with Bob Simon, civil rights lawyer, plaintiffs lawyer extraordinaire, representing people who have had, let's just put it this way, negative interactions with ICE, shot at, shot, maimed. and he and other lawyers like him and people that are affiliated with the POPAC firm are representing these people, these human beings who are being attacked by other human beings, many of them US citizen on US citizen in the new civil war that Donald Trump has promoted. And Bob was a reporter for us today because he was down in the halls of Congress. He was at the oversight hearings. He was in all the rooms. And now he's going to come

and join us and talk about these these hearings today to hold ICE, the Trump administration, Christine Gnome, Pam Bondi, Donald Trump, uh Greg Bevino, you name it, accountable, accountable. That's what our checks and balance system is supposed to be all about. I got a couple of updates about uh hearings uh or new matters in front of Jeff Boseberg that matter, the chief judge in DC, and all of the rest. Now that I'm slightly out of breath from that introduction, that was a very Ben Marcelis like introduction. Right.

You're on the intersection. It's the podcast that where I like ride solo except when I have guests. I'll tell you about the second one in a minute. Uh here on the Midas Touch Network. Okay. Midas is this close to 6 million subscribers. I think the legal AF audience and the intersection audience had a little a little something to say about that. And so I want you to try to get them over that hump to six million. It's at the same time in about a year's time, we got 1 million and moving and plus over on Legal AF YouTube. Another place where you can support independent commentary and journalism and protect what we do with you and for you. Our second guest tonight is going to be Sky Perryman, a founder of Democracy Forward. She and her organization just got an amazing new ruling from Judge Gia Cobb that puts again House Democrats back in the game to provide oversight at ICE facilities having been sidelined and

boxed out by Christy Gnome with a memo from January that said, "Oh, it doesn't matter what's happening down at ICE, you got to give us seven days notice. Place could be on fire. Give us seven days notice." Yeah, f that. Talk about that and talk maybe not in that colorful way, but we'll talk it over with Sky Perryman. And then we got our special treat, which is all of you. And if you leave questions in the comment section tonight, my team, it's one person, my team will will capture my team named Allan will capture the questions and post them for me in a chat screen that I have running over here. and I at the appropriate times will try to answer those questions. So that's what that's how we can be interactive here on the intersection. Really appreciate all all sort of kidding aside. Really appreciate you all being here. Let's just let's just check in on our audience. Yeah, we got a very very nice beginning here on

the intersection. Appreciate each and all of you. You know we're live because I'm watching me. There I am. There you are. And uh again, leave your uh questions and comments in the chat. We will grab them. All right, let's start with Epstein. I also have to be mindful I got guests coming on and uh here we go. Related to that, so let's start with the Epstein files. Uh first we got a hearing tomorrow led by the survivors and victims in front of Judge Burman who along with Judge Angel Meer said he was going to oversee the the fact the protection of victim's identity. And then at the same breath these federal judges say with a straight face I don't have the jurisdiction to do anything about it. Even Judge Burman about the hearing tomorrow is like you can all come down to my courtroom. I'm not sure I can do much. I'm like, you're a federal judge. You know, you got the Trump administration. You're either

being used as a shill or a pawn or as cover by the Trump administration. See, federal judge oversight, but you're not providing oversight. Provide the oversight. Protect the survivors and the victims. And the the big problem is is as one of the uh uh lawyers down in Florida that represents a lot of the victims said to the court in a filing, there's more than 500 victims that have had their names, identity, photos, or all of it outed by the federal government. And the best they can do in their letter back to the judges like like, "Oops, uh we got an 800 number. Uh god, we we we've got a website. They can tell us after the fact, right? After the milk is spilled and after the cow leaves the barn, fill in the blank with all your other metaphors. You we'll fix it. Well, then we'll fix it. No, you fix it before you you know waters.

Jesus. So, we'll see what Judge Burman's going to do, but the survivors have to have to do what they're doing, which is continue to lead from the front and with courage. I got some great news, too, folks. Just happened today. I mean, we've been working on it behind the scenes for quite some time, but I'll I'll I'll break some news here on the intersection. The Pope firm and legal AF is joining forces with a group called Survivor Strategies out of California led by former state senator Joe Dunn and Sam Maloney involving Lisa Phillips also in the collaboration to represent survivors of child and adult sex abuse.

We'll be announcing that very very soon. But we got everything done related to it. been working behind the scenes with them and that's a na that'll be a national practice, a national focus. Uh because this this is what we have to do. There's just some things you just look at them, you look at the opportunity to do good and you say, "Yeah, where do I sign? How do I get started?" And this is something that's really near and dear to my heart and working closely with Sam Maloney who's a survivor herself from the music industry. Joe Dunn who's worked tirelessly on behalf of uh sex sex assault and sex abuse victims and survivors his almost his entire career and has this organization. This won't just be just legal services, but that's important. It'll also have psychological counseling and emotional counseling and uh and lobbying efforts to change the laws to open the windows to allow these people to sue their uh the people that

were their predators. And so we're we're involved uh with that. Um second half of the Epstein report is what we're finding from the totally insufficient Epstein files. Now, let me frame something for you that doesn't get enough press. The Epstein files as ordered to be released by Congress are just the Department of Justice and FBI. That's it. I'm not saying that's right. But it's not the all of the executive branch. We've always said you want banking records, you want the money flow, you want to follow the money, Treasury Department records, Internal Revenue Service, which is part of the Treasury Department records, Postal Service records. So the Transparency Act always should have been broader and it and it can be amended. They'll bring a new bill. They're working on it right now which would be every document which relates to Epstein, Donald Trump and Epstein and the rest. Money flow,

the Russians maybe uh and that's in the that's housed in the executive branch. That's the way to settle that. And what we're finding from deep dives, Daily Mail just did a deep dive as reported by Raw uh Raw Story is this. There's over, let me get the number right, over 2,000 references to Putin and Russia in the Epstein files, which if you piece it together, including emails, it looks like at first blush, okay, that Putin is working for the Kremlin. I'm sorry, we knew that. That Epstein is working for Try it again. that Epstein is working for Putin and that the child sex trafficking ring and the byproduct of it like the blackmail was because that's what Putin wants in order to have compromising information about the rich and powerful ins snared in this predator trap.

So for instance, we now know about um a former Prince Andrew, but if this reporting is right, Putin has known about Prince Andrew for a long time and all of that incriminating evidence and then fill in the blank around the about the rest. And then and the connectivity is Robert Maxwell, the father of Galain Maxwell, who died mysteriously on a boating accident, uh, who also had been who's been linked to espionage, helped funnel money from Putin into Jeffrey Epstein's bank accounts, which would explain how a former middle school math teacher had billions of dollars under advisement in his bank accounts, especially if the money is being laundered through uh, Putin and through real estate transactions which are very difficult to trace. So if that's happening then you've got Epstein offering to help Putin in a meeting with Trump to let Trump to let Putin know how Trump thinks. So intel in color about

Trump. Now at the same time you've got Trump world is always in bed with the Russians. You've got resurfaced reporting about Don Jr. and Eric Trump saying out loud that they get a lot of funding from the Russians as opposed to American banks, right? which then explains all the things that Donald Trump has done which are hard to fathom for an American president, you know, like hanging the picture of Putin in the White House while he puts the Democratic presidents in the uh bathroom. Uh or uh letting turning a blind eye as Putin continues to kill innocent Ukrainians even to this moment. uh like that uh like uh claiming that he trusts Putin in all ways while his intelligence community says that he shouldn't be trusted uh in many many ways large and small like taking secret phone calls from Putin. Donald Trump acts like he's an asset of Putin. He may not be but the people who think that he's the

people in Russia think he's an asset. He certainly acts like a Trojan horse. He's doing everything that that Putin. If Putin had a Christmas list, Donald Trump has been executing that Christmas list exquisitly since he got back into office. Attack NATO, the European Union, and the United Nation, all sworn enemies of Putin. Check. Undermine them. Put Americans at each other's throat. Used armed forces, the military, National Guard, and Federal Security forces against other Americans as a prelude to a possible second civil war. and and destroy our unity and our patriotism as Americans. Check. This is exactly what Putin would have wanted. And maybe this connectivity between Epstein and Maxwell, Maxwell, Putin, the money, Trump money, Russia money, all sort of comes together, right? And we'll continue to follow it as we continue to drill down whatever documents have already been produced.

when we um I talked about the Hellerstein hearing. Let me let me just do one minute on the Helerstein hearing. Tomorrow there's another hearing we'll be following on Legal AF. Donald Trump once again with new lawyers. Sullivan and Cromwell negative shout out to the law firm of Sullivan and Cromwell representing Donald Trump. They convinced the second circuit court of appeals that Judge Hellerstein should go back and look at whether the immunity decision from the United States Supreme Court like two and a half years ago somehow converts the Stormmy Daniels Hush Money Business Record election interference fraud case, you know, the one that Michael Cohen testified in where Donald Trump is convicted of 34 felony counts and sentenced. if that should somehow somehow lead to his conviction and his sentencing being overturned because of the immunity decision. Now, four fifths, five six seven8s of whatever Donald Trump did, the jury

convicted of him of happened before he was president when he was running for office. That was the point. The cover up was to not have an October surprise about Stormmy Daniels going public with having been in a sex act or whatever it was with Donald Trump while he was running for office against Hillary Clinton. That's why he paid her through Michael Cohen. Okay. The only evidence that came out of trial about the White House is after he got elected, he had to deal with some of the fallout. He had a conversation with Hope Hicks, the press secretary. Okay. About the cover up. So his argument is see official duty I was talking to my press secretary converts the whole thing into an immune I have immunity and the New York the Manhattan DA's in their papers is like what are you talking about if you're talking about private personal conduct it doesn't get converted into official conduct because

you're talking to your press secretary who cried on the stand right or the fact that Michael Cohen visited you in the White House to kind of talk about the uh the payment the repayment of the money that was owed him doesn't give you immunity. So what they want the second circuit wants Judge Helerstein to decide and he's going to use a hearing tomorrow to help him is whether somehow the immunity decision makes some aspect of the case official conduct to allow Donald Trump to then take the case from state court to federal court which is what he wants to do then argue some federal defense i.e immunity and get the whole thing thrown out. I don't see this happening with Judge Helerstein. Uh but we will report on it. In fact, Adam Clfeld of All Rise News uh for Legal AF will be at the courthouse tomorrow and he's going to pop outside and we're going to do a live on legal AF Substack.

These are the ways to support everything that we do in this world of intersection, right? You do this. We have a Substack which we're now number three and rising of all US politics devoted substacks and I'm running a sale everybody. 35% off about 500 people have taken advantage of this already. Five 35% off annual membership makes it about $6.50 a month. These are the resources we need to keep all things legal AF in the intersection on the air. We've got the YouTube channel for Legal AF, right, which is growing by leaps and bounds.

We've already crossed the 1 million subscriber barrier. We've got a new paid subscription uh uh way for you to also contribute to what we do. 10 12 videos a day. Legal AF YouTube, right? And then we've got our sponsors who have just recently joined the intersection uh which because we're only about eight months old, seven months old and we really appreciate them as well. So, we're going to take a break from our for our sponsor. When we come back, Bob Simon, civil rights plaintiffs lawyer extraordinaire who is in Congress today in the hearing room today about the oversight committee hearing is going to join me for a special segment. And then following him, stick around, we got Sky Perryman of Democracy Forward talking about her group's big new victory about ICE oversight by Congress. But now, a word from our sponsors. Can we talk about incogn?

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Right now, you can get 60% off an annual plan by going to incogn.com and use code truth. That's ngni.com/truth. And use the code truth at checkout. Welcome back and thank you for being here on the intersection on the Midas Touch Network. Okay, I got I'm gonna answer a couple of questions then we're going to bring in Bob Simon. Somebody asked uh when when do we expect an answer regarding the tariffs. You know, I big decisions like this take it take a minute because you've got the majority opinion, whatever that's going to be. You got the concurrences and the dissents. they all have to be done at the same time or at least completed. You know, if there if there's a descent that's hanging around, that's the tail wagging the dog. You know, I've seen some speculation that the delay is actually a good thing for Trump because it means I I don't know what that means. It it I think there's going to be dissents. I think this is

not going to be 90. I don't think this is going to be seven to 7 to2 or or or 8:1. I think this is going to be more like six to three or five to four. and therefore there's going to be dissents and concurrences and that type of thing. So I don't I'm not reading the way some of these people are reading which is oh every day that goes by the Trump administration you know is is no it's like it's like a criminal defendant who thinks the longer the jury is out that that automatically means that it's better for them. It does it doesn't. So uh my gut is it won't be February it'll be more like March or April. I could be wrong but I think that's uh I think that's where we are with that. Um, and then what about can the president nationalize voting from Susan Brooks 9612? No, he can try. He's been trying to do with executive orders and change the voting date, change the way mail ballots are counted, but these all get

challenged because these are reserved to the states in our system of federalism. Will will this will he try? Absolutely. You know, he's already trying to scare off votes now by threatening to use the National Guard and take over and all that, but no, he can't. By constitutional restriction, he can't do that. Um, are we ready? I'll ask my producer. Are we ready for Bob? You want me to stall?

Ready? No. No. Ready. All right. Let's turn him around. He sounds looks like he's sideways.

There's Bob. Simon. Bob, you're new to my audience. Let's get you right side up. Okay, great. Thank you. How you doing?

I'm doing well. Quite well. You know, uh you're on the streets streets of DC, right?

Yeah. And there's absolute mayhem here. They had to call the National Guard. Wait a minute. No, it's actually very peaceful. We're in Adams Morgan.

I went undergrad DC. Love it. We're outside of Jack Rose famous bourbon bar. We're holding a reception after being on the on the hill all day.

All right. Well, let's get to the hard news here. So, we had an oversight committee hearing. uh a couple of things that are being considered by the Democrats.

Um one of them in particular is to have the May 2025 memo from the head of ICE, Todd Lions, rescended, which would allow uh without a federal article 3 judges warrant to have your door broken down and with an administrative warrant from a Trump judge, an immigration judge, have you ripped out of your home. So that's something that they're focused on. And then the oversight committee hearing was also about and there's another bill about making border patrol and ICE constitutionally accountable. They are they're supposed to be constitutionally accountable by way of an oath that they take to uphold the constitution, right?

You would think, but you know, we see the lawlessness. I practice out of Los Angeles primarily and also Arizona.

They're just not they're empowered by the what they think is immunity. It's a qualified immunity. And a lot of the stuff today we were talking about with the press conference with uh Representative Trans Selenus and Senator um Markley out of Oregon that they want a bill just a single four pages and all it says is that you can be able to hold agents civily liable for any constitutional violations. Now it sounds so simple because every state can do it right and you could do with your local police departments but you cannot do with federal agents. They hide behind the guys. They do not have complete immunity. So, it's very clear.

And then there were several victims of, you know, citizens that were doing nothing wrong that were brutalized. And we saw the same um political all the um the partisan politics and propaganda that came out. They would just immediately say if something happened, they were domestic terrorists and they would go all, you know, witness victim blaming rather than actually finding or investigate the truth. And you see the same repeatable pattern. So, at the oversight committee hearing, a lot of the survivors went and testified, including they had the brothers of Renee Good, and it was honestly incredibly powerful to hear them talk about it, how they already they're an American family where they had people from all walks of religion, political affiliations, but they all get along, how beautiful of a soul she was. And

I'm going to bring in the clips there, Bob. Why don't we bring in why don't we show some of the some of some of the things you were in the room for, and then you can respond to Let's bring in Renee Good's uh brother, sister. My name is Brent Ganganger and um I'd like to share some thoughts from the eulogy that I gave on my sister's behalf this past Saturday. When I think of Renee, I think of dandelions in sunlight. Dandelions don't ask permission to grow. They push through cracks in the sidewalk, through hard soil, through places where you don't expect beauty.

And suddenly there they are bright, alive, unapologetic, unapologetically hopeful. That was Renee. And sunlight, warm, steady, lifegiving, because when she walked in a room, things felt lighter even on cloudy days. Thank you, Ranking Member Blumenthal and Ranking Member Garcia and distinguished members of Congress. My name is Luke Ganganger. Um, and I'm here with my brother Brent. Renee Good is our sister. We're here on behalf of Nay's big family and those who loved her. We're here to ask for your help. I was talking to my four-year-old last week um when she noticed I was not doing well. I had to come here today and talk to some important people.

She knows that her aunt died and that somebody caused it to happen. She told me that there are no bad people and that everyone makes mistakes. She has Nay's spirit. The deep distress our family feels because of Nay's loss is in such a violent and unnecessary way is complicated by feelings of disbelief. Distress and desperation for change. In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation, thinking that perhaps Nay's death would bring about change in our country and it has not.

Yeah. And then as you were in the room for that, Bob. Absolutely. and I represent one of the survivors that came on later and they shared a very special moment behind closed doors where those two and it was extremely powerful and I just want to say one thing everybody that was there was extremely empathetic and I've never I mean this is the first hearing that I've been in front of you know and it was representative Stanbury she came gave them hugs she was tearing up with them it was it was emotional because it was real and these are real people that are really harmed asking for simple things like we want accountability and transparency Um, and to see all those people come together from all across the country experiencing the exact same thing of as soon as something happens, it's we're not at fault. They're domestic terrorists. They're going to put up propaganda and just hope the American

public falls for it until you get up all the evidence and do an investigation and things change. But there was extremely impactful testimony from all the survivors. I mean, I would take the time to watch and listen to it cuz it they need to have every single Republican see this because it is you have to have a bipartisan change. You have to have you have to get rid of qualified immunity. And this is what they kept talking about. Every single person there. You got to get rid of qualified immunity and have some sort of accountability. That was a whole thing of if I had one mantra of the day was the way to have this stop is let these agents know they do not have complete complete authority to do whatever they want. they need to have checked on their power and it's the li if you can do that and say that they can have be held civily liable and there was a bill that they were we were talking with the three representatives I said at

the beginning that's how you create change until you do that and um another attorney Romanucci who I think you probably know he was there testifying and you know he's awesome and he said the exact same thing he said unless we make a legislative change this is all just talk we had an opportunity to do it after George Floyd it did not happen we're here again You have to be able to like you can with any state officer that does something wrong. If you violate somebody's constitutional rights, you should be able to hold them accountable.

If you can't, yeah, you see lawlessness. That's it. We have the oversight committee hearing up on Legal AF YouTube. We had it live today. It's up there as a video. I do encourage people to watch it. Jasmine Crockett

Oh, wow. Yeah. spoke for America. Let's show a clip of Jasmine Crockett today at the hearing. I don't understand why and where my colleagues are going on everything else. And now they want to be the protectors of girls and women. I didn't hear them screaming this when Renee Good was killed in the middle of the street in Minneapolis. I didn't hear any protection for Renee Good, a US citizen that was killed by the same people that the vast majority of you just voted to give more money to. I didn't hear the same thing. In fact, it was a lot of crickets, including specifically including the women as we were just lectured about what we need to do as women when it came down to the Epstein files. I I heard crickets. In fact, we could not get any signatures onto that discharge petition to the extent that we shut down the entire house and there was no business that was conducted in this entire country on

behalf of our constituents. But let me be clear, the Republicans are going to protect girls and women because that's what this is all about. It's it's it's not about the report because the amendment says it's about a report. Like miss me on being protectors. just say that this is what you believe, this is what you doing, but don't come at us and tell us as women what we should be okay with, what we shouldn't be okay with, because it's just kind of like the same thing where I should be telling a lot of women on the other side of the aisle. I don't know how it is that you are not protecting women as they need protections over their own bodies to make their own decisions.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, one of the reasons that um it's so important to have somebody like Bob who's a civil rights lawyer representing people who are the victim uh of the predatory nature of the ICE, Border Patrol, out of control under Donald Trump. Uh you know, I it's important that we it's not just the storytelling that we're reading about or even that I do on the commentary. You've got to be as you are in the halls of Congress. You've got to be in the streets. If you could if you could communicate to our audience, and you're going to now, one major thing that was a a takeaway from today's oversight hearings that they can then take into their own lives and streets and the marketplace of ideas. I I'll even give you two. What would it be?

Well, the people are pissed off and they're rightfully pissed off. And what you need to be able to do is to hold accountability. You got to stand up for the community. Whether that's videotaping, whether that's going to the grocery store in an area town you may not go to just to be a presence so that it stops because they don't do this to white privileged people. They just don't. The other thing you could do is put pressure on your politicians. I do it consistently. Like I have some of my friends that have got elected to the Hill, you know, crazily, but now they're there. Look, I'm texting them all day.

I'm like, "What the f are you going to do?" And you could do that, too. You can call, you can use chatbt to write your own bill. They would love for you to write your own bill. But be on be on social media. Be loud. Be proud about it. and let people know how you really feel because the tides have turned and people all feel that this is unjustified and you can do simple things to be able to change and correct it. So, I do believe in the power of the people and the power of social media for good. Um, but yeah, I think we're at a catalyst right now. We got to we got to do something and thank God for for what you guys are doing and it was exciting to see good people on the hill all with the same message and it seems like there is a united front and it was very encouraging on the the appropriations bill for funding. There was a couple there was at least a dozen and a half Republicans that voted no to that.

Who was the half? I didn't even I couldn't even look it up, but it was it was 14. It was 14 or 15. I looked cuz we were watching as they were counting,

but there were Democrats that voted yes. And my question is why are you giving another two weeks to do a negotiation? You're in a power of position of power right now. Like

put pressure if those are your look it up. If you're in a if you're in a democratic jurisdiction and those are one of your your your leaderships that voted yes, you better give them hell. You better make it public and let them I would shame them. That's what I would do. I would shame them.

Yeah. And Bob, thanks for being here. I I know you from various things and and your leadership in the bar. Um, but I want I want to introduce our audience here on the intersection on legal AF to lawyers like you who every day fight for justice, who every day are rep, you know, people ask, who are the lawyers that are representing the downdraft, right? The human beings that are being chased through the streets and being shot at and maimed and others. And Bob Simon is one of those human beings. So glad you were able to make it on Legal A. Thanks for stepping out of an event on the streets of Washington. Remember, we I only like ice in my whiskey, not

I forgot that t-shirt. Send that to me, will you? I'll send you one. All right. You like a medium right?

Yes, all right. Bob Simon from the halls of Congress to the streets of DC. Thanks for being on legal AF and Interception.

Thanks, brother. You, too. And we are back. Okay. So, uh, what we're watching collectively are the various different ways that Americans can fight back and resist against Donald Trump. Look, there's a pent-up demand in this country to vote already. Unfortunately, the way our system works is we only get to it's like it's like a it's like a class in school. We get the midterms and the finals. So, the midterm is coming up and it can't come up soon enough for almost everybody, including my staff, but but uh in the meantime, there's lots of work to be done. Sure, we're doing it on this side of the glass, right? We're doing the reporting and the live reporting and we've got status coup on the streets of of Minnesota and and we're bringing on the attorneys generals and the former judges and the lawyers who are in the courtroom and the congress people, the representatives and the senators. Uh yes, that's to educate. That's to unite

so that when you're having your moment on social media, in your WhatsApp chat with your friends and family, uh on the streets, in the public square, whatever that may be, electronic or otherwise, that you're armed with data, right? That you're armed with information. And now you can use it to communicate with your elected officials or others, right? To um attend, you go go down to Washington. There's things that you can actually attend and then help get us ready besides in the streets, first amendment protest, ICE protest, and the rest. Um you can also get us ready for the midterms. You know, don't don't let Trump rent real estate in your head for free. I see a lot of questions about can he federalize the election. Don't worry about that. Let the I mean worry about it. The but the lawyers got that covered. The democracy forwards, the ACLUs and the attorneys general kind of got that covered. What we need to worry

about is what we can impact immediately, which is registration for voting. Mail-in voting, absentee voting, getting souls to polls. That's what we have to do. Make sure you're registered. You know, it's sort of like being on a plane. you know, you got to put the you got to put the mask on your child before you, you know, whatever it is. You got to register first before you can register other people, you know, so that we get every everybody and everything out. Um, so what I want to do, let me just see how I'm doing with uh my other guest.

Uh let me check with my staff is let's cover in the interim let's cover a case involving um judge Boseberg because I think that's very important as well. Judge Boseberg the chief judge of the uh district court of the district courts of DC. He's also responsible for all the grand jury proceedings including what happened with Donald Trump and the grand jury proceedings uh rel related to that. Okay. So we have a series we have a case called JGGG which is rep uh and that's 137 men who were disappeared first to El Salvador by the Trump administration under the Alien Enemies Act without due process and then horse traded by the Trump administration and the El Salvadorans to u Venezuela of all places. Right. We took we took enemy combatants and sent them back to the country we were at war or about to go to war with. Does that make any sense? No.

So we sent them there to get them away from federal jurisdiction and federal oversight. That's why they were sent there. Fortunately for those men and for us, the ACLU followed those men to to Venezuela. And Judge Boseberg, while he's not while he's not busy trying to hold the Trump administration and Christine Gnome in contempt, and he's tried that twice. It's been blocked a couple of times by the appellet court, but we're not done yet. He's got the case. And in the case, he ordered that they be provided, those 137 men, be provided a route to habius corpus due process rights from Venezuela or from a third country or be brought back to the United States. And every time they throw up their hands and say, "Did we say we were in charge of Venezuela? Did we Who said that? Donald Trump, Marco Rubio.

Yeah, we're not really. We're in delicate negotiations with Deli with Deli Rodriguez, the head of uh Venezuela. And uh we can't be bothered in these delicate negotiations to raise the the plight of 137 men. And so we're not going to." That's what they told the judge. and if you make us, they threatened the judge in the filing from yesterday in which they said, "If you make us, we're going to take you right up on appeal because they're hoping they get a couple of the Trump judges up there. Uh there's there's a couple in particular, Rayo and um uh and Katsus that they'd love to get." Now, in the same 24-h hour period, the that same judge Boseberg was cleared of any uh ethical charges brought by the Trump administration. See, he got the case four days after in March of last year. 4 days after he had appeared at a judicial conference presided over by the chief judge Roberts in which he said

that he feared, think about this crystal ball. Chief Judge Booseberg said he feared that the Trump administration would defy court orders. Shocking. Trump administration didn't like that because they were about to defy a lot of court orders. They just defied a hundred in one month in Minnesota. It's been thousands since they got in office. So Boseberg was right. Aha. But four days later, he got a case in which they defied a court order to ground the planes and not take them to El Salvador. And they said, "Oh, he prejudged the case. He's totally unethical. Look what he did. Look what he did." And he raised it in front of the chief judge of the United States Supreme Court. Oh, he just got cleared by a chief judge of another court who looked at it and said, "I don't know what you're talking about. You got an issue with Boseberg. file a motion to disqualify or recuse him. If you don't like the results there, take it up on

appeal. There's nothing unethical about anything he did or said, move on. But this is their strategy, right? Go after the federal judges. File bar complaints. Get articles of impeachment against federal judges. Middle of the road moderate conservative federal judges. They don't like Judge Schultz in Minnesota either. Judge Schultz the chief judge of all judges in Minnesota. They don't like him. Rock rib federalist society constitutionalist. Uh Judge Schultz. Oh, he and his wife donated 50 bucks to some immigrant right pro right rights project a few years ago. Oh, that changes everything. He's a Marxist leftist radical.

You know, is that who buys this? Not the American people based on the polling. Not at all. there. I mean, the polling if the vote was held today, let's just see how we're doing. Okay. If the if uh Okay, if the vote was held today, then um Donald Trump would lose in a landslide. MAGA would lose in a landslide. I mean, right now the predictions are, and we have to make the predictions reality, that the Democrats take, I don't know, 225 seats. They only need 218. 225 seats or more in the House, you know, open up the impeachment proceedings, ladies and gentlemen. You all these oversight hearings we're doing now, they become the real hearings, right? Presided over by Democrats.

And then in the Senate, yeah, you need a bunch in the Senate. You need twothirds in the Senate to remove on an impeachment conviction. May not have that, but who knows? There's such a well there's such buildup of demand to vote in this country. It's like it's like we're we're I'm like itchy over it. But we got to put our energy and our attention and our commitment into things that we can do and make change right now. We talked about some of them tonight. Let me take some uh let me take some questions from the audience here which I think will be fantastic.

Um, we have a question about the Fourth Amendment from Karen Ryan. Does it cover breaking car windows and opening car doors? Absolutely. When Renee Good when they went up to Renee Good and they improperly stopped her, that's a Fourth Amendment violation. It led to her summary execution on the streets of Minneapolis in broad daylight and on video. But that interaction, the moment before Alex Prey was murdered and riddled with bullets, that's a Fourth Amendment violation. The ultimate Fourth Amendment violation against illegal search and seizure. He was been seized by five men who jumped on top of them like a rabbit pack of wolves, right? And extinguished his life. That's a Fourth Amendment violation. Door handles? Yes. Windows?

Yes. your papers also. And it's not just for citizens. Most of the Constitution provides protection for people, a person, not a citizen. The framers didn't say, "Well, we don't really care what happens to migrants now, do we?" If you're in the four quarters of the United States, okay, no matter how you got here, even an illegal alien has First Amendment rights. you wouldn't know it by the Trump administration. Um, let's take another one. Uh, Bonita Atwood said, "What is stopping all the victims and surviving family members from coming together to file one big beautiful lawsuit against the federal government for the cover up and mishandling of the files?" I guess that relates to Epstein. Nothing. Nothing.

And there's going to be lawsuits. The next wave of justice is the the lawsuits brought by lawyers like Bob Simon who we just had on and others representing individuals who have been on the wrong end of the Trump lawless unconstitutional civil rights violating li civil liberties violating policies and acts. That's the next wave that we're going to be watching over the next three years. Perfect timing for my next guest, Sky Perry, Men of Democracy Forward.

Hi. Hi. I was tap dancing a little bit. Not because of you, but I am. I was like, what else can I answer? Okay. I'm glad you're here. And where are you? And where are you today?

Well, you normally see me in my office, but I actually got home before 10 o'clock at night, so I'm just at my house. Yeah.

Breaking news. Sky Perryman's home. I'm home. I mean, so something must h you know. So yeah,

yeah, hopefully celebrating an amazing great victory. As I said at the top of the podcast today on the intersection, uh, a new lawsuit, a new ruling from Judge Gia Cobb obtained by Democracy Forward. Guy Perryman, the founder of it, puts the at least 13 Congress people back in the game, back in the saddle for providing oversight over ICE facilities without having to like like they're checking into a hotel, give seven days notice before they arrive, right?

Yeah, this is really important. Um, Democracy Forward, we have a great team that's been litigating this case alongside our co-consil at American Oversight. Uh you'll remember in December we won a court order that to allow members of Congress to do their legal duties and go into ICE facilities. In the dark of night um unannounced the Department of Homeland Security Christine Nome purported to sort of change the policy to get around the court order. This is a trend we obviously see. And after Renee Good was murdered, members of Congress um tried to go to a facility in Minneapolis and they were with our court order in hand and they were barred from getting in.

And so we quickly went and amended the papers um made an emergency motion and we were really pleased to get this court order on Monday, yesterday that is um restoring access including for Representative Morrison who is the representative of the Minneapolis area and was trying and was being blocked by the administration. And here's where we nerd out on the intersection in legal AF. We're going to talk about a section 527 rider. Did I did I lose anybody yet? Okay. So, so the the I'm going to do my version and then of course I'll turn it over to you.

the when Congress back in the good old days when there was another Congress funded Homeland Security, they made sure that no funds from that funding at that time would be used to block members of Congress going down to ICE facilities providing oversight because wouldn't that be adding insult insult to injury? Okay,

so the way that that Christy Gnome and by the way, if you have a pet, bring it on. We have a lot of pets on the intersection.

I know. It's all good. Yeah, it's all good. Right. And the way that Christy Gnome twice tried to get around that was by saying, "Oh, I'm not using the 527 rider money from No, no, no. I'm not using it from that funding. I have another pocket. I'm taking it from I'm blocking the the Congress people with other money, right? Other people's money. The one big beautiful bill money. That's where it's coming from. I haven't gotten around to segregating the funds related to those two things yet. We will one day. Money is funible, right? All looks alike, but um so that's okay, right? I'm I'm going to use non section 527 money. I'll use this other money, this other pile over here. And what and it just summarized Judge Gob took a look at that and said, "No, that's not all right."

Yes. And we submitted our team did a great job of pulling together additional information. I mean, I guess if we're just dorking out here, including declarations about why um about why there's still this obligation under the other funding, uh the government did not even contend with that information or that new um declaration that was put before the court. And so, uh we're really pleased. I mean, as you know, and we've talked about a lot on this show, but um as you know, the administration is viewing what's happening in Minneapolis as an optics problem. It's not actually changing its agenda. It's just mad the American people are seeing what is happening and deeply disapproving of it. And so, you have them arresting journalists like Don Lemon. Um you have them arresting people that just see with their own eyes what's happening, detaining them without their counsel. We're all over that. and then

you know the preventing members of Congress from going into facilities and conducting oversight. All of these things are designed to have people deny uh the you know what they're seeing with their own eyes or to prevent people from seeing what is going on. So, we really view this victory not just as a victory for Congress's um oversight role, our individual um clients oversight role, not just a victory for uh this continued uh game that the administration wants to play where we go in and get a court order and then they want to make us play whack-a-ole to have to go get another court order. I mean, we won on all those. We feel good about that. But um also this is really about the American people who are having a visceral reaction rightfully so to the inhumane and autocratic actions of this administration in Minneapolis. This case is um a victory for making sure that we're shining a light and that members

of Congress are able to shine a light. And then of course there's so many other cases where we're helping people shine a light. My two favorite parts of Judge Cobb's order, which is up on Legal AF Substack. One, it was my nerding out as a genius move by your lawyers, and that it led to my my second favorite, uh, which was the remark about the judge. Starts on page five. Plaintiffs have presented evidence in the form of testimony by a former Department of Homeland Security and ICE legal and budgeting official. Shout out to your team that found that person. And how and let me say really quickly to get that new information. I mean this is hard for people that lawyer you know that just to sort of have to put all that together under difficult circumstances. For sure.

Yeah. And that that person said it would be logistically difficult if not impossible for the Homeland Security office to identify and segregate the expenditures to ensure that only funds from that one big beautiful bull bill were used to first promulgate and enforce the January 8 policy. Defendants make no attempt, the judge commented, to disprove the specific factual claims made by the declarant. Right. They were they had nobody in opposition and they run the department of home.

They have all of Right. Correct. So, it shows you why we should have prevailed um on both the facts and the law. It also just shows you I mean we're I'm so proud of our team and uh for moving quickly, for being able to get this information that makes it very plain. And of course, we believe it's been clear since the members of Congress were denied access in the first place after Renee Good um was murdered. We believe that there would be ways to um you know to have enforced the prior order. But this is also a really sweet victory uh taking the government at what it said going back in and uh the judge finds that we're you know right on the law and the facts. So and and and oversight is able to happen.

Yeah. And here's and here's my second favorite which led from your team having gotten that unrefuted witness who used to work at the Department of Homeland Security. The judge said perhaps reflecting that difficulty and defendants have not seriously attempted to argue.

Right. So that that's the best language. Keep keep they haven't even argued that DHS and ICE ensured that only these certain funds were used before promulgating and first implementing in policy. Indeed, the language of the no memo anticipates that steps to ensure compliance will occur in the future, admitting that they're not doing it now.

Right. Right. Just just just really terrific question from the audience for you, Sky. Uh Dana Kolio Cloud asks, "If they still refuse entry, right, you got the order. What accountability is there? What can you do about it?"

Well, we'll we will move to enforce the order. um depending, you know, the court's been very clear, so that could also mean um moving for things like contempt. I mean, it depends on sort of how things would unfold. Um we are, and this is a theme that we talk about a lot, um I talk about a lot with legal AF, but uh you know, we are um good at forcing the government to comply with the court orders we win. It is not easy. It is um beyond the pale that we have to that lawyers could go win court orders and judges could say things and our own federal government feels like these are suggestions and they don't have to follow the orders. I mean we should not normalize this and so I I want to make sure I'm saying not you know we're not normalizing this but we um are very good our team is very good at monitoring compliance at the minute that we think that they're skirting what the court said going in calling the question and

the judges are very good. You've seen the judges in um Minnesota just this last week uh come out and really call the government out for their lack of fidelity to the court orders and um engaging in proactive measures to ensure the government complies. So those are some of the uh mechanisms we have. Now of course there are other things. Lawyers shouldn't be signing papers and making representations to the court that are inaccurate. they have an obligation to advise their clients and to make sure their clients are complying with court orders. And so there's professional discipline that lawyers that continue this trend may face um you know in in the future. Uh some organizations are starting to file those types of um those types of complaints. So so there's a a range of tools that the court has.

There's a range of tools that that people and that the legal profession has and I think you will start seeing those being used. Uh the thing that we want folks to know is that we know uh we know this trend. We see it all the time in our cases and we are getting into court and forcing compliance with these orders and that is protecting people every single day even if people are not as protected as much as we wish they were. Um our ability to force compliance with these court orders is is keeping food on people's tables is protecting people in a number of cases.

Yeah. Let me run one last thing by you here and thank you for uh joining us here for the live edition of the intersection. We had this reporting today. I'll put two two couple things together. You got in Minnesota, you got the chief judge Schultz who issues an order four days ago who says over a hundred uh orders in the month of January alone in Minnesota district courts have been violated by ICE and if it happens again, he's going to do something about it. Then today we have reporting in Minnesota in front of Judge Blackwell that a a lawyer who it turns out doesn't normally work for the Department of Justice directly but works as a ICE attorney in immigration court decided to volunteer to help with the habius corpus petitions that are inundating the courts of Minnesota and broke down in tears in front of Judge Blackwell who said why is the is ICE violating my orders in five different habius

corpus cases in which the reporter said she said out loud in court because this job sucks, the system sucks and I want you to put find me in contempt so you can send me to a detention center so I can get some sleep. What does that and then also proceeded apparently in court to tell the judge that she cannot get despite her best efforts her client ICE to comply with orders. Well, this is what we're I mean this is what we're seeing and um we I've been watching that reporting too and hope you know I think we'll learn more. But this is you know if if taken um at its word I mean this is a attorney for the department of just you know for the government that's coming into court um you know being honest with the judge about what's happening. uh the federal government is not operating consistent with how it should operate and um jud lawyers at the department of justice and working for the federal government are exhausted

because there's very few of them left. I mean we've had over 70% of the federal programs uh division at the department of justice that's often the civil uh branch that defends the administration's conduct in court has left or been fired. Uh we have people on our staff at Democracy Forward. You know, we've got a colleague that was fired by the Department of Justice because he refused to lie to a federal judge in the Abbrego Garcia case. Um, you know, this is something that is really rocking the department. Um, in many of our cases, we receive filings that are not well done that have mistakes all over them because of the lack of um the the lack of attorneys. Over the weekend, there was the the administration was putting on social media, you know, hey, you're an attorney, you want to come work at you want to come work for the government? I mean, it's it's and this is not and and you know, it's it's really unbelievable.

And so the this report, if if true, I think, you know, says a lot of what we're seeing in court every day, what our team sees every day from people who are just exhausted, can't get what they need from their clients, by the way, have professional obligations that most lawyers are not willing to break, which is why many of them are having to either leave or they're being fired from this administration. Uh yeah, I mean it it's it's really unbelievable. You know, one thing as we think about this autocratic power grab and we talk about things like the rule of law and it's sort of like does that sound, you know, what is that?

How does that really matter to people? The courts have been a major guard rail. Even with the shadow docket, even with some setbacks, they have been the most powerful guard rail. um and lawyers refusing to lie. Lawyers um you know forcing their clients to have to level with the courts. As much as we wish that would happen more than it's happening, that is happening and that is a huge guard rail. Judges, you know, these judges um you know, the chief judge in Minnesota, this is not a progressive a judge that was appointed by a progressive uh president, right? I mean and and so you know judges that say actually we are an or uh you know we are a nation that is supposed to be a nation of laws not people and I'm going to fairly apply the law here and require uh what we're going to require for fidelity to these court orders. We're seeing that across the board with Trump appointed judges, Republican appointed judges,

Democratic appointed judges. And so one thing I think when we see these breakdowns is you understand why the administration is coming for the lawyers. They're wanting to threaten judges because this has been one of the most effective. This has been the most effective guardrail the first year. We're now seeing people are also an incredibly effective guardrail. People in the streets, businesses closing, you know, first general strike in 80 years in the United States history. People are saying we're not going to have this on our watch. But the courts have been saying that too. And I think that's why the president is now engaged and the administration's engaged in a greater and more accelerated series of threats.

Whether that is threatening people and journalists and protesters or whether it is threatening judges and lawyers because these are the guard rails that you know that are that are protecting what we have protected um over the past year.

Yeah. And and just two last points, the the lawyer, you and I see it. I I see it in all the filings that we cover. It's the same lawyers over and over again. They couldn't possibly be able to handle the these cases from coast to coast in in areas like as you said that they're not even regularly immigration and federal programs and these are supposed to be different lawyers in different departments with different expertise and different staff. But when you hollow out and you lose three or four or 5,000 people and you don't replace them as you could see from the hey you want to work at the Department of Justice kids or ICE or I mean nobody wants to. The lawyers that have left are they land from what you can see are they landing on their feet at organizations like yours and the attorneys general or the ACLU are they landing on their feet?

Many of them are right. I mean we are stronger for this. I mean we have an incredible team. We've always had an incredible team, but um you know there are lawyers that are still committed to working for the American people don't feel like they can do that at the Department of Justice. We've taken in a number of incredible some of the best attorneys in the country at Democracy Forward. We see this happening at the state AG's offices, at other organizations like you said, ACLU, others. In addition, some of these attorneys are going to build their own firms. they're building building small and mid-size firms and they're they're they're working on these cases with us.

Um there are other attorneys that have been doing a lot of incredible research um to to to show for the media for the people to say, you know, we're going to track every place that DOJ backtracks. So someday there is that accountability. So, um, you know, I don't have the full numbers of of how many attorneys have left and where they are, but we're seeing these attorneys, um, really be able to contribute to the protection of our democracy. The the what should concern every American is that we have a legal system now where people who can care about our democracy, many of them don't feel like they can have their careers at the Department of Justice. And that's really not been um the case before. I mean, there are a number of career attorneys, right?

people that work um and defend the government, whether it's a Republican government, a Democratic government, a Trump government, and many of them are finding that they can't do that anymore because of the pressures at the Department of Justice to undermine the law, to not follow court orders, to not be candid with the court, and that should really concern everybody.

Yeah, there's a whole crop of people that have to skip going into federal federal prosecutor practice for this point in their careers, maybe come back to it in 2020, in 2028. we'll see or 2029, whatever it is. But there, you know, normally there was a path, right, for people that came out of law schools like you're in mine, you know, you'd go spend a couple of years in a big law firm, then you maybe a federal clerk, then you go to the US attorney's office. No, now it's now it's go to the Manhattan DA. Now it's go to the state the attorney general and the state prosecutors.

And it's not just happening with the litigators. I mean, we saw the field agent, the field agent that was in charge of the um FBI office

near Georgia, you know, retire or near Fulton County in Georgia retired from the FBI a week before the warrant was um ex, you know, was executed for um this raid on the Fulton County Elections uh office. Again, these are committed civil servants who have done a number of, you know, things throughout their careers, work for a number of um, you know, the federal government for under control of a number of presidents, um, that are feeling like they have to leave um, in this time because of how this administration is trying to politicize, whether it's the Department of Justice, whether it's the FBI, um, to create a situation where these lawyers or where, um, investigators are made to feel as if they're they're serving the president's personal interest or personal vendettas and that's not how justice is done in our country.

Yeah, very very very good point. Sky Perryman, Democracy Forward. If you don't know about her organization, we'll put the links down in the notes below. You need to know about it and all the affiliates around uh that that are with Democracy Forward. They are in the courts every day, coast to coast, representing your and my interest, protecting and defending the Constitution, our civil liberties, our civil rights on big important issues. We really could not defeat the Trump administration and overcome their lawlessness without organizations led uh like Democracy Forward, led by Sky. Sky, thanks for taking time out and joining me.

I'm loving this new show. Thank you so much. See you any anytime. All right. All right. Thank you very much. Sky Perry and Democracy Forward. Well, it's a great way to close the show. We've uh covered a lot from the Epstein files to ICE and how to melt ice with Democratic leadership in the House and the Senate. We brought on a lawyer, Bob Simon, who's a civil liberties and civil rights lawyer who represents the individuals who are being abused by the Trump administration in cases like we've just discussed. We brought on Sky Perryman to talk about how on these bigger institutional issues, organizations like Democracy Forward are fighting it out every day in the courts, right? We got to make the bad things that are happening stop or at least slow them down in time for the midterms to catch up. And people as I can't tell you how many times I've had a penny for every time one of my guests, especially in the

last month or two, has said that we we the people that I'm talking to, the newsmakers, the ones that are in the courtrooms, in the halls of justice, in the halls of Congress, say we can't do it without your audience, without the crowds, without the protests in the streets, without you. And it's just a remind. They're not just saying that to like yank your chain and compliment you because they're on they're on my show. They're saying it because it's it's necessary. It's important. We can't be we don't have the luxury of being the silent majority. We have to be the noisy majority. We have to be active and participate. This is democracy. Our version is a contact sport. It's a participatory sport, right? It's not to watch. It's to it's to it's to play in. It's to be a part of in our own way and here on the intersection such a fantastic audience that we've built here and uh and people ask besides in the comments how can we

support the intersection. Okay, we're up on audio podcast platforms like Spotify uh Apple and all fivestar reviews and comments. You'll see them. I mean we're relatively new podcast. The YouTube version is up the charts. We're regularly in the top 50, sometimes the top 20 of all all YouTube podcasts because of you, because of your support. And then there's the things in the Legal AF ecosystem that that keep us on the air and pay the bills and put a ring fence around our first amendment right to be heard and your first amendment right to hear us. And the ways to do that are we've got uh our Substack, Legal AF Substack. If you don't know about Substack, get on it. You'll find something you'll enjoy. Hopefully, Legal AF Substack number three and rising right now of all US politics Substacks.

Seven to eight to 10 pieces a day. Two lives from me a day. Live reporting on Substack. You get a notice. You get a notification. Boom. You're on with me. We have 2 3,000 people at like lunchtime to talk about matters. Uh I'm running a sale 35% off the annual membership on Substack. And then we've got our YouTube channel, Legal AF YouTube channel, where I've along with about a dozen contributors, we've got um 10 12 videos a day. Uh and then a paid subscriber level. Just in the last couple of days, I just interviewed uh an author concerning uh justice reform when it comes to the criminal justice system.

We've got Michael Ludik, Judge Ludik who's joining us for an interview tomorrow. We've had Senator Blumenthal on recently, Governor Shapiro on in the last week or two, Representative Torres in the last week or two. Uh, you know, and the like. Adam Classfeld tomorrow will be running around, I think, between two courtrooms in the Southern District of New York. one with Judge Helerstein about whether Donald Trump's going to successfully take his state conviction over to federal court to try to get it dismissed ultimately and what's happening in Judge Burman's chambers about courtroom about the Epstein victims and we'll we'll get Adam to pop out of the Southern District of New York courthouse and report on that probably on Substack Live. So I'm glad you're all here. Thank you for being such fervent supporters of what we do and we'll see you on Tuesday, Wednesdays and Saturdays of course legal afu

on the Midas Touch Network. So until my next report, shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal Afers. Can't get your fill of legal AF? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hottake, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the Substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called, wait for it, Morning AF. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. We got some new reporting. We got interviews. We got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "LIVE: Popok Gives URGENT UPDATE on Breaking Legal news | 2/3/2026"?

Michael Popok (Host), Bob Simon (Guest), Sky Perryman (Guest).

What is "LIVE: Popok Gives URGENT UPDATE on Breaking Legal news | 2/3/2026" about?

The discussion centers on a shocking incident where Department of Justice lawyers expressed despair over their inability to address ICE's violations of court orders, highlighting deep concerns about the agency's actions under the Trump administration. The conversation also explores the role of the Democrats in conducting oversight hearings regarding ICE's treatment of individuals, emphasizing…

What is mentioned in this MeidasTouch episode?

21 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, ICE, Department of Justice, Bob Simon, Renee Mlin Good, Sky Perryman. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "LIVE: Popok Gives URGENT UPDATE on Breaking Legal news | 2/3/2026"?

The episode runs 1 h 16 min; the transcript is about 13,237 words in 113 timestamped sections.

More from MeidasTouch

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 4, 2026.