LIVE: Trump IS BURIED by EPSTEIN FILE RECKONING…AND MORE!!! | Legal AF

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on the legal challenges facing the Trump administration, highlighting that a staggering 93% of over 4,000 civil rights cases against it are being lost. Key issues include misconduct by ICE agents who allegedly lied in a shooting incident, as well as concerns about leadership in the Department of Homeland Security amidst reports of personal scandals affecting its governance.

Key takeaways

• Trump's administration faces an avalanche of lawsuits, losing 93%—talk about a legal meltdown!
• ICE agents caught lying on video, proving that truth will always find a way out of the shadows.
• As Homeland Security’s leadership frolics in scandal, the frontline suffers—public safety or personal drama?
• Grand juries are refusing to play ball with Trump’s game—checkmate for attempts at silencing dissent.
• Political performances over victims’ rights backfire as Pam Bondi learns the hard way: humanity always trumps rhetoric.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Michael Popach (Host) · 1 h 1 min speaking
• Dena Dah (Host) · 40 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Donald Trump, Attorney General Pam Bondi, Department of Homeland Security, Department of Justice
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Donald Trump, Epstein file, Jeffrey Epstein, Civil Rights
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Massachusetts, Department of Justice, Babson College, Honduras
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Donald Trump, Epstein file, Jeffrey Epstein, Attorney General Pam Bondi
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Don Lemon, Grand Jury, First Amendment, Department of Justice
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Grand Jury, Don Lemon, First Amendment, Donald Trump
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Department of Justice, Grand Jury, Donald Trump, Constitution
8. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Department of Justice, Epstein file, Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump
9. 1:20:00 – 1:30:00: Epstein file, Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump, New York, New York
10. 1:30:00 – 1:40:00: Epstein file, Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump, Department of Justice
11. 1:40:00 – 1:40:59: California

Notable quotes from "LIVE: Trump IS BURIED by EPSTEIN FILE RECKONING…AND MORE!!! | Legal AF"

• Got a new case in which the Department of Homeland Security and ICE had to admit that two ICE agents lied because video caught them lying about whether they were attacked with…

  about ICE · at 0:44

• Federal the different creative ways federal judges are dealing with an outofcrol lawless department of justice and ICE and other agencies who are breaking in contempt, federal judges orders. And we have a new and I said this a.

  about Department of Justice · at 2:23

• That. Don Lemon, and it's not just Don Lemon. It's all independent journalists that Donald Trump has made it his business to try to crush dissent, crush first amendment expression, crush independent journalism that he can't.

  about Donald Trump · at 3:25

• When she was caught flatfooted, effectively crapping on the survivors and victims of the Epstein files and instead trying to use political talking points in such a disgusting…

  about Epstein file · at 5:14

• First amendment has been the underpinning of my work. Work the first amendment, the freedom of the press, the bedrock of our democracy. The events before my arrest and what's…

  about First Amendment · at 56:26

• Back, and that you can't just do something that you know is wrong and against the Constitution and law and military justice. That's just that's just a restatement of what is in…

  about Constitution · at 59:56

• Todd Blanch, the number two in the Department of Justice. Pam Bondi, the number one in the Department of Justice, or the solicitor general, the number four in the Department of Justice, John Sauer. This is basic you and I.

  about Attorney General Pam Bondi · at 1:08:45

• YouTube channel. Got this amazing thing you may not have yet discovered called Substack. Go on to Legal AF Substack.

  about Substack · at 1:39:51

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Donald Trump — Person · Primary subject / criticized political figure · 30 mentions · first at 1:32
  Central figure blamed for alleged lawlessness across DOJ/DHS/ICE and for attacks on journalists; also discussed in relation to Epstein and alleged cover-ups.
• Jeffrey Epstein — Person · Referenced criminal figure / catalyst for accountability discussion · 32 mentions · first at 4:49
  Used as the focal point for discussing sexual abuse survivors, alleged elite cover-ups, and DOJ/AG Pam Bondi’s handling of “Epstein files.”
  That got under Donald Trump's skin and they said a collective nope. And then I want to talk about Epstein bringing down a series of rich and powerful men and women in the last week or two.
• Attorney General Pam Bondi — Person · Referenced government official / criticized witness · 9 mentions · first at 5:07
  Portrayed as performing poorly and insensitively in congressional oversight, allegedly using political talking points instead of addressing Epstein survivors and accountability.
• Don Lemon — Person · Referenced journalist / alleged target of prosecution · 20 mentions · first at 3:25
  Presented as an example of independent journalism allegedly being criminalized; discussed in connection with grand jury issues and First Amendment protections.
  Took matters into his own hands with a new contempt order. We'll talk about that. Don Lemon, and it's not just Don Lemon. It's all independent journalists that Donald Trump has made it his business to try to crush dissent,.
• Dena Dah — Person · Guest co-host / legal commentator · 4 mentions · first at 6:28
  Introduced as the special guest filling in; provides analysis of ICE misconduct, judicial contempt, and broader authoritarianism themes.
  Trump administration right here on Legal AF with our special guest filling in for Ben, Dena Dah. Hi, Dena.
• Christy Nome — Person · Referenced government official / criticized DHS leader (name likely mis-transcribed) · 1 mention · first at 12:10
  Described as leading Homeland Security while allegedly distracted; tied to claims of ICE/DHS dysfunction and corruption.
  Federal judge. they are not the only bad cops in this rotten organization called ICE led by ultimately led by a homeland security director Christy Gnome who has taken her eye…
• Ghislain Maxwell — Person · Referenced criminal associate in Epstein discussion · 3 mentions
  Mentioned as part of the Epstein network; used to underscore the scope of alleged abuse and elite accountability issues.
• Corey Luwendowski — Person · Referenced political operative · 1 mention · first at 1:50
  Mentioned as Donald Trump’s former campaign manager and as allegedly involved in a relationship with the DHS leader, used to argue mismanagement and corruption.
  She's too busy flying around on a private jet on taxpayer dollars with Corey then figure out how to reform and lead the Department of Homeland Security as the Democrats make…
• Leon D. Black — Person · Referenced wealthy figure in Epstein-related accountability theme · 2 mentions · first at 1:25:46
  Mentioned as part of the broader set of powerful individuals implicated or scrutinized in the Epstein context.
  Because of his unholy relationship with Epstein through the head of Apollo, a major financial services firm, and Leon Black where they were where they were in the Epstein…
• Virginia L. Giuffre — Person · Referenced survivor/accuser in Epstein network · 2 mentions
  Named as part of the Epstein-related survivor narrative and accountability discussion.

Companies & orgs

• Department of Justice — Company · Government agency · 23 mentions · first at 2:29
  Central to discussions about legal actions, corruption, and law enforcement under the Trump administration.
• ICE — Company · Government agency · 2 mentions · first at 0:39
  Discussed in the context of civil rights abuses, corruption, and law enforcement actions under the Trump administration.
• Department of Homeland Security — Company · Government agency · 3 mentions · first at 0:39
  Mentioned in relation to ICE operations and civil rights abuses under the Trump administration.
  Private jet on taxpayer dollars with Corey then figure out how to reform and lead the Department of Homeland Security as the Democrats make good on their threat to defund…
• Substack — Company · Publishing platform · 4 mentions · first at 34:47
  Highlighted as a platform for independent journalism and legal analysis.
• Wall Street Journal — Company · Media outlet · 2 mentions · first at 1:27
  Mentioned in the context of reporting on government officials and scandals.
  Homeland security director Christy Gnome who has taken her eye off the ball because according to reporting in the Wall Street Journal she's busy having an affair or…
• Midas Touch — Company · Media company · 2 mentions · first at 33:37
  Mentioned as part of the media ecosystem discussing legal and political issues.
  Without our audience, without their fervent support of the things that we do, Legal AF, Mightest Touch, Legal AF YouTube channel, we'd be off the air.
• FEMA — Company · Government agency · 1 mention · first at 2:10
  Mentioned in the context of potential furloughs and government shutdowns.
  Organization. This weekend alone, it looks like we're going to have at least TSA and some other entities like FEMA who maybe be furoughed because the Democrats are digging in and the and we're also going to keep an eye on how.

Concepts & topics

• Epstein file — Concept · Legal and political scandal · 32 mentions · first at 4:49
  Central to discussions about sexual abuse, cover-ups, and the involvement of powerful individuals.
• Grand Jury — Concept · Legal process · 20 mentions · first at 42:28
  Highlighted as a check against unfounded prosecution and a bulwark between the accuser and the accused.
  Grand juries are rebelling against this Trump administration. We have a most recent example where they took a look at an attempt to indict six members of Congress for issuing a 90-second video.
• First Amendment — Concept · Legal right · 11 mentions · first at 3:37
  Discussed in the context of press freedom and the right to free expression under threat.
• Constitution — Concept · Legal document · 6 mentions · first at 7:45
  Referenced as the foundation of legal rights and protections against government overreach.
• Civil Rights — Concept · Legal and social issue · 6 mentions · first at 0:12
  Discussed in the context of abuses by government agencies and legal protections.
  When he was all he was doing was reporting on a peaceful protest inside of a church about ICE and their civil liberties violations on the streets of Minneapolis and St. Paul.

Places & events

• Babson College — Place · Educational institution · 4 mentions · first at 2:56
  Mentioned in the context of a student's illegal deportation and legal battle.
  He's doing it about the illegal, which was confessed by the Trump administration, removal of a 18-year-old college student at Babson College who was just trying to go visit her…
• Congress — Event · Legislative body · 8 mentions · first at 4:39
  Mentioned in the context of legal actions and political resistance.
  With Corey then figure out how to reform and lead the Department of Homeland Security as the Democrats make good on their threat to defund Homeland Security until they get…
• Minnesota — Place · State · 5 mentions · first at 4:06
  Mentioned in the context of legal cases and protests against ICE.
  Charge of violating some criminal laws when he was all he was doing was reporting on a peaceful protest inside of a church about ICE and their civil liberties violations on the streets of Minneapolis and St. Paul.
• Massachusetts — Place · State · 4 mentions · first at 2:47
  Mentioned in the context of legal cases and federal judges' rulings.
  Got to get off the stick and start issuing contempt sanctions against the Trump administration. Judge Sterns, maybe he heard me, in Massachusetts, and he's doing it about the…
• Texas — Place · State · 1 mention · first at 3:08
  Mentioned in the context of immigration enforcement and legal jurisdiction.
  The fa the federal judges of choice for the Trump administration reside in Texas. So, if you're picked up in Massachusetts or Chicago or Portland, Oregon or Minneapolis, all of a.
• California — Place · State · 6 mentions · first at 17:53
  Mentioned in the context of legal cases and political figures.
  Civily by plaintiff's lawyers, including some that you and I know. I don't know if you know Bob Simon out in California, friend of mine. He's representing victims of ICE.
• Honduras — Place · Country · 3 mentions · first at 3:08
  Mentioned in the context of illegal deportations and immigration cases.
  Was just trying to go visit her family at Thanksgiving, got swept up in this mess, sent to Texas and then to Honduras, and they won't bring her back.
• New York, New York — Place · State · 3 mentions · first at 1:06:38
  Mentioned in the context of legal cases and political figures.
  Epstein files. from Howard Lutnik, the cabinet secretary, to the general counsel for Goldman Sachs to the head of Paul Weiss, a major law firm in New York, all these people…
• Washington — Place · State · 1 mention · first at 1:00:14
  Mentioned in the context of political and legal discussions.
  Code of military justice. Trump didn't like it. Said hang them from the highest tree and George Washington would hang them. right on Q. Pete Hegsth said there he called them…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 We're now in the third phase of the Trump administration and its lawlessness. This is where court cases uh by human beings who have been abused, their civil rights, civil liberties abused, bring their personal court cases against the Trump administration. We've got over 4,000 of them in the United States. And overwhelmingly, the Trump administration is losing 93% of the cases. They're losing at the federal district court level. We want to cover some of those examples here on Legal AF on Saturday and what the Trump administration is doing about what appears to be a completely lawless and outofc control and corrupt ICE and Department of Homeland Security. We've got a new case in which the Department of Homeland Security and ICE had to admit that two ICE agents lied because video caught them lying about whether they were attacked with a broom and a shovel, which justified them shooting a Venezuelan in the leg. And then when

1:03 they tried to cover it up, there was video that showed that they lied. They lied in an affidavit. They lied in a criminal complaint. They lied to a federal judge. Uh they are not the only bad cops in this rotten organization called ICE led by ultimately led by a um homeland security director Christy Gnome who has taken her eye off the ball because according to reporting in the Wall Street Journal she's busy having an affair or relationship with Corey Lewendowski who is Donald Trump's campaign manager during the first campaign who has a reported history of doing inappropriate and predatory things towards women and and it looks like she's too busy flying around on a private jet on taxpayer dollars with uh with Corey then figure out how to reform and lead the Department of Homeland Security as the Democrats make good on their threat to defund Homeland Security until they get major changes in that

2:05 organization. This weekend alone, it looks like um we're going to have at least TSA and some other entities like FEMA who uh maybe be furoughed because the Democrats are digging in and the and we're also going to keep an eye on how federal the different creative ways federal judges are dealing with an outofcrol lawless department of justice and ICE and other agencies who are breaking in contempt, federal judges orders. And we have a new uh and I said this a couple weeks ago, federal judges have got to get off the stick and start issuing contempt sanctions against the Trump administration. Judge Sterns, maybe he heard me, in Massachusetts, and he's doing it about the illegal, which was confessed by the Trump administration, removal of a 18-year-old college student at Babson College who was just trying to go visit her family at Thanksgiving, got swept up in this mess, sent to Texas and then to

3:10 Honduras, and they won't bring her back. even though the Trump the the the judge judge Sterns gave them an opportunity to to fix their and remedy their sin. So he took matters into his own hands with a new contempt order. We'll talk about that. Don Lemon, and it's not just Don Lemon. It's all independent journalists that Donald Trump has made it his business to try to crush dissent, crush first amendment expression, crush independent journalism that he can't control. And Don Lemon is just a prime example along with George Foot. But he's fighting back in many ways, having been recently arraigned on a manufactured charge of violating some criminal laws when he was all he was doing was reporting on a peaceful protest inside of a church about ICE and their civil liberties violations on the streets of Minneapolis and St. Paul.

4:10 and his lawyer has done something extraordinary in a new filing which we will talk about during the show. Um, as grand juries, which we're going to talk about with Don Lemon, are in the news again because they are the conscience of America, of the public, they stand between the accused and the accuser and make sure that innocent people aren't indicted. Grand juries are rebelling against this Trump administration. We have a most recent example where they took a look at an attempt to indict six members of Congress for issuing a 90-second video that got under Donald Trump's skin and they said a collective nope. And then I want to talk about Epstein bringing down a series of rich and powerful men and women in the last week or two.

5:00 uh that performance and the operative word is performance that unhinged imolation by Pam Bondi of her career. I think it's a turning point in the oversight committee hearing, especially when she was caught flatfooted, effectively crapping on the survivors and victims of the Epstein files and instead trying to use political talking points in such a disgusting and crass way when all she had to do is be a human being and acknowledge other human beings that have been sexually abused. And instead, she decided to rattle off data about the economy. And I got news flash for Pam Bondi. Not everybody's in the situation where they've made millions of dollars working for Donald Trump and getting his stock. Okay? Most people know the economyy's in the Most people know that the job numbers that just came out look like they're cooked.

5:49 Uh and and the pain and suffering is happening every day in doctor's offices, at gas pumps, at supermarkets, at schools, etc. Uh, so and I want and then we'll wrap that into somebody did get fired after Pam Bondi's performance, but it wasn't Pam Bondi. It was somebody fighting for America from within the Department of Justice. The antitrust, the head of the antitrust division, and we'll we'll connect the dots as to how Abigail Slater's firing is a another level of cover up by the Trump administration right here on Legal AF with our special guest filling in for Ben, Dena Dah. Hi, Dena.

6:32 How was the big reveal bringing in Dena Dah? Everybody, everybody's like, first of all, Pop doesn't get to talk this much at the beginning of Legal AF usually. Something must have happened to Ben and now they understand. Ben is uh is doing some amazing wonderful things with his family. And as he would step in for me, I've stepped in for him into the into the uh anchor seat, if you will. And we brought Dita Dal on, one of your favorites, to help us um go through all these issues. Dina, how are you?

7:01 I'm doing great. Uh that was a we got a lot of stuff to get into. Trump uh it's a it's a new it's a new nightmare every I used to joke that if the Kennedy administration was known as Camelot, this should be known as scam aot or scandal a lot or something because I I've never seen it before. It it could be exhausting except I find it exhilarating to do what we do here on Legal AF which is to put the puzzle pieces together, train our sights on it, educate our audience on it, teach them a fair amount about law

7:40 along and our legal system along the way and give them what they need to fight for our democracy. Everybody in our audience is a warrior for the Constitution. You may not have signed up for that. That may not have been in your dream book, you know, in middle school. Like, and one day I'll be a warrior for the Constitution because we have an unhinged fascist president in office. But whether you've been conscripted or you have volunteered and and I know you have by the by being part of our our amazing audience, this is where we are. And this is the moment.

8:14 There's a reason I left my full-time career doing another type of law to dedicate to our audience and to do legal and political analysis really on a full-time basis. And you too.

8:27 Yeah. I mean, I have to say every person that I've come across who is a mightest mighty or legal afer is so extremely informed. They know the facts. They know the law. They are so upto-date. That is exactly the type of citizen that can fight authoritarianism. people who want to check out from the news because it's so awful can't do the work. And so I am always super impressed. People will tell me a Ben video or pop video that I haven't even gotten to yet. They're so incredibly aformed. We have to have a purpose. Finding a purpose through this is how we get through it. But also on a side note, you know how normally you see presidents like really age from the beginning of their term to the end of their term and it's just the presidents.

9:07 This time I think it's going to be awesome. You should all take photos. Very good. Is that your line? That's an excellent line. I'm going to steal it.

9:15 That's a great line. So, we should all put in a time capsule a photo from four years ago

9:20 or no, a beginning of this administration, right? And then in four years, yeah,

9:25 I know I'm going to be greater. I'm scared. That's a very good line. So with with that some good news coming out of um you again federal judges by and large including a lot of Trump judges are fighting the fight every day every hour every minute with their staff in 93 federal districts

9:47 around the country in cases that we cover and of course thousands of cases that we don't cover. We might cover them in bulk, you know, in terms of this is a trend, this is what's happening, but you know, we try to bubble up the major cases in the funnel that we use in curating to bring you what you need. So, let's kick it off with uh Alfred Aljouroa and Julio Cesar Soelis. Uh, you may have heard the story about ICE claiming that they were attacked by a shovel and a broom and therefore they needed to shoot Mr. Sosaelis in the leg.

10:24 The problem with that is a little thing called video. And video came out after the ICE agents who are still being protected by ICE and by uh Homeland Security uh in terms of not having their names released. Why not release? They have no problem releasing the names of victims and survivors of Epstein in when they're not supposed to. Why do we not know who these people are? But they filed false affidavit, sworn statements under oath in court to support a criminal complaint uh and also testified before federal judges to try to get these two um ind criminally prosecuted, arrested, and held in detention. Then the video came out. It turns out that none of that was true. And so in a one paragraph filing by Dan Rosen, the new head of the US attorney's office in Minnesota, they had to say that there was um they didn't they didn't quite say it the way the new reporting is, which is they're now criminally investigating these two ICE

11:29 agents for having lied. But they said that there was inappropriate testimony submitted to court and therefore they want the complaint, get this, the criminal complaint dismissed with prejudice. Meaning even the government knows it's so egregious that these two should never be prosecuted. At the same time, they've been sitting until recently in m in immigration detention, but until Judge Schultz, the chief judge, released them from that. Take it from there. uh from your perspective uh as an example, an indicia of the corruption and the cancer that is ICE under uh under uh Christy Gnome and Todd Lions, the acting director of ICE.

12:18 I mean, this blatant lie, so blatant that they just had to dismiss it outright. I can't imagine how bad that video must be for the prosecution. It's not the first time this has happened just in the recent, right? in addition to Mr. So say here he was shot, charged, detained unlawfully. But also in Chicago, Miss Martinez the same way. She was shot and now the government backtracked and video showed again. Oh, it didn't happen the way they happened. You know, the first thing that you said I think almost might be the most important and that we do not know the ICE names. Um, Director Lion came out and said, "Oh, you know, this was against how we, you know, federal agents shouldn't lie." You know, they are accepting that there was a lie. It must have been that blatant and that they are being um, you know, put on leave, but they have not released the names. One, first of all, that means that there's no way of actually checking

13:13 that whether or not they have been on leave. When we talk about a secret police, and some people might think that this is hyperbole. This is a secret police. When somebody when a federal agent has shot somebody, lied about it to the judge and that name still hasn't been released, it is the most dangerous kind of secret police. When you sign up to work for the government or to serve the government in a position, I mean, I'm a city commissioner. They know so much about me, right? I have to file all sorts of information about myself. You know, you sign up to do certain things.

13:46 You may not like that people will know your name if you shoot somebody unlawfully, but that is part of the job. You do not have to sign up for ICE if you don't want. You can go work for a private security company, but if you sign up for the federal government, we need their names. And what them still withholding the name in this moment when they have announced to the world that these agents lied in federal court shows how unserious Trump regime is about democracy, accountability or transparency.

14:21 Absolutely. And it's not this isn't the only rogue cops in ICE. Their whole culture has been corrupted by bounties, by letting in people who are unqualified. Anybody that's 18year-old, 18 years old, and wants to serve this country gets a badge and a gun. What could go wrong? With no training, with no training about how to interact with US citizens, let alone how to interact with migrants. They're all on border patrol uh approach. even in the middle of the country where there's no border, okay, where they're more likely to interact with uh US citizens and protesters than they are to interact with with migrants.

15:03 Look, we all that just puts our cards on the table. There's not an American there's there the vast majority of Americans regardless of political strike believe that violent criminals that are within the the migrant or immigration population should be removed from the country. Okay, I think we all if we're all sitting around a table like what do we agree on? We all agree to that. But you can't throw every migrant and immigrant into detention. Throw the throw the immigrant out with the bathwater. Throw them all out. Violate their civil rights and due process rights when 90% of them or I think no I think the new stat is 75% of them have no record at all. find the 25% that has a record and a violent record at that and focus the resources and the attention on that and not on chasing after other human beings through Home Depot parking lots or churches or schools or hospitals or other sensitive

16:07 zones. You know, we shouldn't have to go to court to have a federal judge tell ICE and Homeland Security that they shouldn't conduct operations near a preschool or at an elementary school. This is not what we signed up for. Everybody, if you ask most people who are not living near a border and really don't see an immigration problem in this country, they would say close the border. Okay, the border is closed. The the it's so hard to get through that border, if you want to define it as with Mexico, the southern border. Okay, it's closed. this other stuff of trying to get several million people out of the country, many of them hardworking uh representatives that we would love to have be in America paying billions of dollars in taxes has to come to an end.

16:53 So all we're watching is a corrupt organization and what that will do. It's not the there's there's over 50 people who have died in interactions with ICE and Homeland Security this in the LA in 2025, okay, and into 2026. For me, that's 50 too many. Okay. Uh and you know, to to uh MAGA, who's still I guess it's the only group clinging to Donald Trump, you know, it it it's it's a start for me. It's that should be the end of it. So, there needs to be a total reform of this organization. And you still see, as you pointed out, Dena, that they're covering up. You know, they won't tell us who the guys are. They say they've been put on leave. We still don't know the names of the five guys that jumped Alex Prey like a pack of wolves and then shot him 10 times. Why don't we know their names?

17:46 We're going to because they're going to get sued. Yeah. Civily by plaintiff's lawyers, including some that you and I know. I don't know if you know Bob Simon out in California, friend of mine. He's representing victims of ICE. So that's Yeah. Go ahead.

18:02 I think I think until I think until they start naming names, we have to accept that they are not willing to run this agency in any sort of fair and way. And I'm glad the Democrats are shutting it down to do that. It's a very simple catch, right? Like you know, how do you catch a liar? This is a very simple catch. Until they reveal the names, they are not going to follow the law. Period. Because we do not arm a federal agent without knowing their name, badge number, their face. That is the minimum. So, the rest is all talk. You know, Lions came out, you know, trying to say we don't do this and all that kind of stuff. But if you're not naming the names, it's it's the rest is all smoke.

18:52 I think that's something we can follow here until they start naming names. But we're but we're going to get the names because the plaintiff's lawyers are going to use Freedom of Information Act requests and other demands to get the name. We don't we don't allow mass marauders to come into your town and shoot you in the head and drive off and we don't know who they are when they work for the federal government. They work for you and me. So that's all going to I don't know. They just think it's really bad news. So they want to make it go slower. So they don't want to give us the names now. But we're going to get we're going to get those names.

19:20 Yeah. It's a way of covering. It's a way of signaling to the rest of the ICE agents, we didn't really mind what they did.

19:28 And that's why I think it's a tell. It's a very good point. So, let's uh let's move to how judges are handling corruption. Um, as I asked for, I demanded that federal judges start using the power, the inherent authority to find the Trump administration in contempt. So, we have this interesting case of um and of how a judge handled it of Amy Lucia Lopez Biosa who until two weeks ago till Thanksgiving, no Thanksgiving actually, you would never have known about her. She was a hardworking young woman, proud to be in America, straight A student in Texas, got into Babson College in Massachusetts. And you never hear about her except, you know, maybe if she ran for Congress or Senate or the presidency, but because she came here when she was eight years old from Honduras and her parents applied for asylum but apparently didn't get it uh when she was 11, there was an order of removal. Well, you know, because of the

20:31 Dream Act and because we had people in this country running the country like Obama and Biden, she didn't get deported or removed. of course now that we're throwing out every migrant and immigrant with the bathwater. She tried from Babson to go visit her parents to surprise them for Thanksgiving. Goes to Logan Airport in Boston and I guess her name's on a list and she gets brought into detention. A federal judge orders her not to be removed, but she already got removed to Texas. Okay, here she is. And from Texas, there's another order for her not to be removed from the United States and she gets removed illegally and against a court order to to uh Honduras where she's apparent according to this judge's order, she's still doing her studies by Zoom with Babson College. So the judge after the federal government admitted like they did in an earlier case of Kilmer Abrego Garcia admitted that she

21:34 was illegally deported or removed from the country because an ICE agent in uh with a short staffing problem misread an order and sent her out. The judge says, "All right, I I I can it's commendable that you admit that you made an error. another bring her back. He said, "Oh, no. Judge, you don't have the jurisdiction to order us to bring her back." What are you talking about? I said, "I I'm wear like he probably looked down at his robe, Judge uh Judge Sterns and said, I'm wearing a black robe here, aren't I? I have inherent authority." Oh, no. Well, I'm going to give you the opportunity to fix it.

22:09 Marco Rubio, Secretary of State's got a lot of powers. Right. Have her order her to have a student visa. Bring her back. and the just and the uh Department of J the Department of Justice and Mark and the Secretary of State said we decline the invit. It's like it was an invitation. I've been in federal courts for 35 years. I've never seen a federal court's comment to be an invitation. Like I declined that invit. Thank you, sir.

22:34 And so the judge, right, issued an order on civil contempt. Why don't you take it from there?

22:41 Yeah. I mean, as you pointed out blatantly, there was an order. do not remove her for 72 hours trying to give her a chance to fight the deportation order. Government blatantly ignored it and deported her. And so, you know, Judge Sterns saying that they have until February 27th to bring her back. you know, very upset at the government, rightly so, for ignoring him to this day and saying he's going to hold them in contempt if that doesn't happen, which you know, the trial judges for sure have been the most resilient part of the I guess you could say resistance to the lawlessness. They're the ones with the initial view of the case. They're the ones with the facts applying the law correctly. I think also and you probably would agree pop that they're showing less difference now to this administration than they would have in the past this past year they have seen that they don't deserve that difference

23:40 that the the the the blatant lawlessness so him acting uh quickly here and it will be will they agree they tend to capitulate right they they they have this bluster I think the Trump administration but I imagine maybe they will bring her back by the 27th. At this point,

23:59 let me read to you from from this order. Sort of whenever I see the Bible being cited, it it it gets me excited. So, here's what Judge Sterns wrote in his order. Wisdom, this is first page, first paragraph. Wisdom counsels that redemption may be found by acknowledging and fixing our own errors. Proverbs 28:13. In this unfortunate case, the government commendably admits that it did wrong. Now it is time for the government to make amends. And he then goes through the case for Amy um and the emergency judge's order that she not be sent uh to outside the country. In other words, the reason and just a little bit of a tutorial here.

24:45 The reason the Trump administration moves and removes people, moves and removes, moves them from their jurisdiction where they're picked up, where they live to another United States jurisdiction and then removes them out of the country sometimes in the same day or same 24 48 hour period is to get them away from federal judge jurisdiction. The fa the federal judges of choice for the Trump administration reside in Texas. So, if you're picked up in Massachusetts or Chicago or Portland, Oregon or uh Minneapolis, all of a sudden, even though you have no connection to Texas, suddenly you're you're chained, put on a transport, and sent to Texas. But what you're really being what really is happening is you're being sent away from a federal judge, maybe a a Biden or Obama or Clinton or Bush appointees jurisdiction. Okay. So now the first move of the shell game, Texas. So now the jurisdiction lies in

25:46 Texas for any rid of habius corpus petition which is more likely it's a conservative judge maybe a Trump judge. So now they're in Texas. Now we get to removal. Why are they being removed out of the country so quickly? To get them away from federal court oversight. And judges are wise to this. So what they're saying is they're also wise to something else. a development at the United States Supreme Court from last spring involving Kilmer Abrego Garcia in which they backed a federal judge who came up with the concept of facilitation. I call it the facilitation doctrine. It's really Judge Zenis and now every federal judge is using it which is I'm going to order that the federal government facilitate the return to the United States of the illegally removed person. I have that power. You know, their argument had been the Trump administration, "No, judge, you lost your jurisdiction as soon as we

26:41 put those people on the plane." And the response is, "No, if I had an order in place like Judge Sterns, Judge Boseberg, Judge Zenis, then I have the inherent authority to order you to facilitate the return." And the and the Supreme Court, which never agrees on anything. They can't, as I joke, they can't agree on their lunch order. Who got the tuna salad? Okay. 90 said that the that facilitation concept was right for due process. So now all the judges are using it facilitate and and Judge Sterns uses it. Let's go. Let me go over it. So after he goes through all of it, he says that the the respondents have readily acknowledged they violated the order on page five. So that's an admission. He says, "I gave in the he says uh the judge says in the in the spirit the court suggested When a black robe judge suggests something, you better you better follow it. Suggested that the secretary of state with his considerable powers

27:42 provide Amy with an expedited student visa. The sec the secretary of state regrettably declined the invitation and now the court said civil we're now up to civil contempt. Um he then cites to John Adams in his capacity as not only a founder but in helping to write the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights which was the model for our bill of rights. uh does that as well and says that um this argument that the Trump administration brings up which is judge what does it matter even if we brought her back and you ordered us to facilitate what she has we're just going to put her in in immigration detention and down the road she's probably going to be removed anywhere and the judge wag wagged his finger and said not so fast that's not for the executive branch to be judge jury and executioner on immigration policy. It's up to the judiciary. So, don't presuppose what's going to happen in the future after a

28:43 court of appeals determines the extent of her due process rights. You don't get to crush her due process rights and say, "Well, she'll probably just be removed in the future anyway, judge. That's not for you to to to do." So using the facilitation doctrine on page seven of the order it says the respondents which is the government are ordered and directed to facilitate A's return 14 days from the date of this order and then transmit it to everybody file status reports about it and what you're doing to facilitate which is a page out of Judge Zennus's book and Judge Boseber Boseberg's book about facilitation requirement. Now, Kilmer Abrego Garcia, it took a United States Supreme Court decision and even then the Department of Justice manufactured a fake criminal case against Kilmer, which is likely to be dismissed in Tennessee before they brought him back to keep him in detention.

29:43 137 disappeared Venezuelans. the Trump administration, even though they they just got ordered by Judge Boseberg to facilitate their return for due process purposes, you can see the Trump administration is going to keep fighting that. I'm not sure I'm not as confident as you are, uh, Dena, that they're going to bring back Miss Boza. Uh, they don't like to admit mistake or defeat,

30:08 even though this would be easy. While Donald Trump's busy giving pardons to, you know, former NFL players for their corruption, which he did in the last couple of days, why don't you take pity and call it mercy? Call it, you know, you know what I mean? All these people that are being pardoned for fraud and billions of dollars wiped off the books. give this poor girl, okay, an amnesty and give her a student visa and let her come back to Babson College and let her be an American in the future and give her a path to citizenship. How about that? But I'm not sure he's going to do it given these other cases.

30:48 Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm just hoping because right now I don't know if the Trump regime is as focused on this to be quite honest. Uh, I mean you and I are focused on it because this is part of our, you know, making sure we see every illegal move they're making, but they are a little bit more focused on Epstein. And I think they took such a hard line with the Kilar Brigo Garcia because it was in so much the news and they needed to see that they weren't backing down. And I can sometimes be an optimist and maybe to a fault, but the fact that the facilitation doctrine even become part of our new legal theories. You know, Judge Zenis will be in the history books as really being willing to stand up, the first one to really stand up. And it really isn't about I mean I I agree with you the mercy of her of like gosh isn't this exactly the kind of person we want in this country who wants to you know

31:43 get an education and contribute to our society. But also just frankly her due process rights were violated. And if it's that easy if they think they can show it no skin off their back go ahead and show it when she returns. Yeah. I know we're going to be talking about Pam Bondi in a little bit, but it just feeds into their whole mentality with Trump's personal mentality of never being able to accept a loss. But the actual lawyer in front of the court will be the one held in contempt. So perhaps that particular lawyer might not want to go quite as far as, you know, Trump would.

32:21 And and here, you know, just to your point, she's not a member of Trend Ara. She's not a narco terrorist. She's not right there. She's She's not a drug gang.

32:32 She's a female. She's a lovely young girl woman who's in who's in college. Okay, you do what you you know that is the perfect poster child

32:41 to you know where he could he could be the bigger person. Although I I don't think that's even possible with Donald Trump. But we will see and we'll continue to follow that. When we come back, we'll talk about what I think is a turning point in the public's perception of the Department of Justice and Pam Bondi uh and her performance at the oversight committee hearing, the jud the judiciary committee hearing. And then there's some new breaking news about the Epstein files, which I want to with Dana bring everybody up to speed on. And then we'll also talk about Don Lemon and this bombshell of a new motion that he just filed in the last 24 hours in that particular case. But we're going to take a quick sponsor break. For people that know our show, the reason we talk about our sponsors and talk about the ways to support Legal AF, is because let me be frank. Without our subscriber base, without our audience, without their

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38:12 Welcome back to Legal AF with Michael Popac and sitting in or no that I like sitting in. That's uh our our guest anchor Dena Dah. Ben is uh doing some fun things with his family and I as he would for me stepped in and said of course we'll and I'm sure Dena would love to come on and uh brief our audience about all things legal AF. So Don Lemon, this is and this is about Don Lemon, Georgia foot, but this is about independent journalism, which is Donald Trump's one of his main goals as any dictator fascist is to crush first amendment freedom of press and freedom of expression. He said it a year ago.

38:54 It's in Project 2025. He's used his Federal Communications Commission to go after uh reporting and bend the knee of companies like ABC, CBS, 60 Minutes uh and the like. He's working behind the scenes right now uh to try to get CNN into the hands of a crony friend of his, a billionaire trillionaire family led by Larry Ellison of Oracle trying to put his big fat thumb on the scale. He but the one thing he can't control is like what you and I do on YouTube and what you even though it's owned by Google. I mean, you think he could, right?

39:35 But he hasn't yet, you know. And if that happens, it'll be you, me, Ben, the brothers riding around in a van with a shortwave radio, right? You know, it'll be it'll be, you know, pirate radio, you know, in your neighborhood, like a like a like a Whimo, you know, broadcasting. That's what's going to end up, you know, happening. But

39:57 yeah, he can't get us, you know. So he goes after act blue, you know, try to take away their first amendment expression through money. Goes after corporate media. I'll hold up your deal, you know, you like that license, you know, you better, you know, this, that, and the other thing. They're going after the view of all things. Whoopy Goldberg is now going to be and Joy Behar is now going to be the because oh, they they they're putting on people. Well, they're not doing equal time under the equal time rules. And so they go after Don Lemon and they don't just go after Don Lemon. Don Lemon was whether you want to call him embedded with a group of protesters or of course they knew that they were going to be doing protest. Don got the got the lead on it and he went to the church in St. Paul in the middle of January where they were demonstrating not to interfere with the house of worship as the indictment puts

40:51 it or people's first amendment expression but to protest inside the church about one of its leaders being involved with ICE and its frankly uncchristian policies and approaches. I mean, you know, there's a lot to be said for what was going around during Christmas, which is uh and I've been to Bethlehem to see the manger, okay? I mean, the location where they think it was, you know, that you know, Mary and Joseph would have been deported moved, removed, and and deported uh with little baby Jesus. So, they picked that place to protest. Don Lemon, Georgia Foot, another journalist go there. Every judge that looked at it from the chief judge of Minnesota to a magistrate judge said Don Lemon his producer Georgia foot journalists first amendment right. You want to put the other people in jail for violating various constitutional and civil rights laws by because they're they're uh they're interfering with

41:56 somebody's right to to uh worship based on a law that was to protect uh people from being bombarded with abuse on the way into abortion clinics by the way but uh but not not the press. you can't. So, Judge Schultz said it, Judge Schultz said it to the to the uh the appellet court, uh basically exonerating Don Lemon, but they finally knowing that federal judges wouldn't issue arrest warrants and wouldn't approve of criminal complaints, they went into a grand jury and they got a grand jury indictment. But this Trump administration, this Department of Justice is so lawless that they are known for mischaracterizing the facts.

42:41 That's called lying about facts about a case. We've seen it before. That's a domestic terrorist. That's an assassin. No, that's Renee Good who you murdered in cold blood and that's Alex Prey. Uh so we know they misstate the facts, especially in this in this particular case that we're talking about. and they misstate the law all the time. Uh and so Don Lemon brought a motion to unseal the grand jury transcript uh in order to be be under the argument that you can no longer give this department of justice the presumption of regularity which is a doctrine that says before this administration, before this corrupt department of justice, we are going to presume unless you can show us proof otherwise that what transpired with an indictment or the actions of a prosecutor are are in the regular course. But you can't give them that any longer. You can't give them the presumption of regularity. You can't

43:42 rubber stamp it anymore. Before I turn to you, Dena, about the new filing. Let me um play two examples or show show one and then an audio of where the Trump administration has completely misstated the law as it relates to Doddle Lemon. Har Dylan, the head of the civil rights division, uh doesn't know her constitution. and the fact that they misstated the law in public in a in an interview. Lord knows what they did in before the grand jury. Look, we know from Lindseay Halagan's debacle going against James Comey and Leticia James that she went in and violated, according to a magistrate judge, the Fourth Amendment and the and the Fifth Amendment and the Sixth Amendment rights of Comey and and Leticia James. Lord knows what they did to get an indictment against Don Lemon. And that's the point of the motion. But let me show you Har Dylan being interviewed on Fox and her misstatement of First Amendment law,

44:50 which likely infected what happened in the grand jury room. Let's play it. From Sunday when I first saw the video that Don Lemon himself put out about his conduct that day, it was clear to me that we had the predicates for pursuing face act and conspiracy. We did our homework, sent prosecutors there to the ground, took affidavit, took evidence. Uh they buttress the case that we could witness from Lemon's own testimony and statements and admissions against interest uh in his own videos. and we have aggressively and very rapidly sought legal process. Now, I will say it's been a little frustrating because for 48 hours between the time that we sought these uh arrest warrants and the time that we were able to make arrests and say what the judge did in in refusing to sign off on lemons, you know, it had to stay silent. We have certain protocols here at the Department of Justice and but uh he is not out of

45:47 legal jeopardy and he has lawyered up. as a prominent lawyer and uh you know we're going to pursue this to the ends of the earth.

45:57 Good. Yeah. Uh so let's let's break that down for a minute. He I love I love when the Department of Justice at Har Dylan who I'll just say it out loud is a political hack of the first order. She failed up she wanted to be the attorney general. She didn't get it. She wanted to be the chairperson of the Republican National Committee. She she she got the consolation prize. She didn't get it. So they gave her the civil rights division to effectively put out of business. So she goes on and she he lawyered up. You mean he got a lawyer to defend himself against a criminal charge? Yeah, he lawyer I guess we all need to lawyer up, don't we? But the statement that his badge as a journalist is insufficient to overcome the the criminal law that she talked about, it's exact opposite of the criminal law. Congress when they passed that law made it clear that if you're properly exercising first amendment

46:52 rights media journalists you're not going to be criminally prosecuted and yet you have Harmy so so Abby Lel who represents a number of targets by the Trump administration uh including Leticia James including uh Lisa Cook on the board of governors he said there is an example Lord knows what they said in the grand jury room, which is why we need a copy of the transcript because look what they're saying in public. And then he said in in the briefing that and they're also mischaracterizing or lying about the facts. And they used for that example one of Don's um co co-uh defendants is an activist and they posted a photo. I don't know if we have it. If not, I'll I'll I'll get it. We po they posted a photo of his co-conspirator and they used AI to darken her skin and make it look like she was crying. There it is.

47:49 Yeah. Nikima Levy Armstrong was it was in in the picture on on your left. That's what she looked like when she was when she's being arrested. Not on the right. So, if they're willing to lie, Dena, about this basic facts in public, Lord knows what happened behind the closed doors of a secret grand jury hearing room, right?

48:13 Absolutely. He should win this motion for sure. I mean, him deciding alone to what Lindseay Haligan did to Comey and the misstatement of the law in itself would be a reason to reveal this and also because of all the statements he cites from Bondi to Trump to Emma Dylan talking about how he was really guilty before they were finished pursuing it. The magistrate judge gave the DOJ an opportunity to revise their affidavit if they had more evidence. They didn't do that. Instead, they went to, as you said, the circuit judge. He wasn't willing to do it either. And so, they What on earth did they say to the grand jury? I mean, Dylan was involved with California GOP politics. She, as you said, is a political hack. Don Lemon as an independent journalist, there is nothing more risky to an authoritarian regime than an independent reporter with a microphone because we see not only the consolidation of media power, but a lot

49:12 of those media owners run in the same circles and they we've seen them be willing to bow to Trump. Uh it's not that hard to call the boss, right, and say, "Hey, tone down your reporter." Nobody can do that to Don Lemon and Georgia for and that's why they're so threatening and so powerful and why there's an attack on them. Now this face act requires there to be an intentional disruption of the first amendment right to worship which is what they are using for the protesters and the protesters will have their day in court to play all of that out. The reason why it is so astonishing and why we realize that this is really so authoritarianism that they're going after Don Lemon and Georgia Ford is because they were reporting on what the protesters and the parishioners and pastor were doing. I mean, I went to journalism school, right? I mean, I can think of no other way to actually protect somebody's first

50:05 amendment right to worship than to interview the pastor and the parishioner who made it super clear that they didn't like those protesters there. Don Lemon in fact amplified the voice of the churchgoers. Let's say they weren't there, weren't live streaming it, there was no recording of it. you would have uh you know hearsay account of what exactly did the protesters even go inside the church? The parishioners said yes, the protesters said no. The irony is that by Don Lemon being there, he amplified the concern in some ways of the of the church proessioners. Yes, he amplified the voice of the protesters of why they were going there because as you said this really uncchristian detainment that's happening, but he also amplified the voice of the parishioners. And that is why it was so hard, if not impossible, for the DOJ to get an indictment against him and why it is essential to see what exactly they said

51:08 to the grand jury in order to get it. Absolutely. Let me um let me um read to you from the filing and then I want to show you both Don Lemon, our audience and Georgia foot because I don't want them these human beings who are doing this hard work of being journalists holding a a government accountable um as part of the fourth estate. I don't want that to be lost either. Here's what Don Lemon's lawyers wrote um in their introduction which I thought was very very powerful and you and I are both lawyers and we can admire great legal writing. I often do sometimes when I see amazing legal writing I like just I put it into a drawer that I keep for like the future. Here's what they said at the introduction. Grand jury proceedings are presumed regular and with some exceptions ordinarily protected from outside scrutiny. But the government has squandered that presumption here. Its conduct has been

52:03 highly unusual, nakedly political, and inconsistent with practice in this district. Multiple judges considered the government's evidence in quotes against Don Levan and Georgia Fort and declined charges. Undeterred, the government took the prosecution do President Trump demanded to a grand jury. Um, in the United States of America, we do not prosecute, the the the brief continues, journalists for doing their job. That happens in Russia, China, Iran, and other authoritarian regimes. And yet, the government sold this unconstitutional mess to the grand jury.

52:41 And therefore, the grand jury proceedings must be disclosed to us to ensure that the government did not mislead or misinstruct it. Particularly, they say about the grand jury on page 10, the grand jury. We're going to talk more about the grand jury next about what it did as a firewall to protect our rule of law about the attempt to indict six members of Congress last week or earlier this week, sorry. Here's what they said about the grand jury. The grand jury is a check against unfounded prosecution, a bull work between the accuser and the accused, citing to the founding fathers. related to that. They then went through an entire series of dozens of cases just in 2025 and a little bit of 2026 in which federal judges have had to say probably for the first time in their lives that this is a lawless rogue administration and department of justice who no longer can be given the presumption of regularity

53:40 who were going after their political enemies without regard to the rule of law. case after case after case after case citing back to the two cases we talked about the the case of Leticia James and James Comey in which judges like Judge Fitzgerald, Judge Novak, Judge Curry all looked at it and said I mean I mean Judge Fitz Judge Fitz uh Fitzgerald who is the magistrate judge for James Comey said I see three constitutional violations alone in the presentation to the grand jury. fourth, fifth, and sixth amendment, which never would have been, just to educate here for a minute, never would have come to light because grand jury proceedings are there's no judge sitting in the room. They're down the hall, you know, but a prosecutor presents the case. The grand jury sits in judgment and they decide whether there's probable cause to indict probable cause to indict somebody for a crime. That crime then

54:41 has to be proved in the court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. So probable cause to indict but beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. That's why people are presumed innocent until which is another bull work against rogue prosecutions. And then it's all supposed to be done consistent with the department of justice manual and the principles of federal prosecution which have effectively been put in a wood chipper by this Trump administration and everybody knows it. So, um I would be shocked if the judge in this case does not grant this motion and and take a look at least in camera, meaning the judge look at it alone first what happened during the grand jury proceedings. Don Lemon has come out postindictment. Uh uh you saw a little bit of a clip there that Kath that uh what what what now passes for journalism on Fox is snickering, sneering, and giggling like eighth graders watching a school play or a musical and uh giggling

55:46 through the performance. That is what now passes for it on Fox News. All you hear is Don Lemon coming out swinging and the Fox News anchor or host whatever she's supposed to be laughing under her brow. I mean that that is now reporting for Fox News. Let's play Don Lemon though in his response. First off, I'd like to thank everyone again for their support to my colleagues, countless journalists around the world, the Lemon Nation, my family and my friends. You all have showed up for me in a real way and I am extremely grateful for that. I feel it. I feel it. I feel it. For more than 30 years, I've been a journalist and the power and protection of the first amendment has been the underpinning of my work. Work the first amendment, the freedom of the press, the bedrock of our democracy. The events before my arrest and what's happened since so that people are finally realizing what this administration is

56:40 all about. The process is the punishment with them. And like all of you here in Minnesota, the great people of Minnesota, I will not be intimidated. I will not back down. I will fight these baseless charges and I will not be silenced. Thank you very much.

56:58 And I want our public to know and we're listen to be frank. I'm I'm friendly with Don Lemon. I sat next to him at Ben Mealis's wedding. I I've you know I've supported him. You've been on his show.

57:10 Yeah. I I've celebrated New Year's with him. I was on New Orleans. No, he did. He had a lot of remote people, so we did like a watch party.

57:20 So, yeah, but I would defend even if I didn't know the guy, I would be defending him as hard. And I don't know Georgia Foot, but I want people to know more about Georgia Foot. Let's play the Georgia Foot clip.

57:29 Today shows me that we are moving together. And so to all the media who made a statement on behalf of me, thank you so much. As I reflect as a journalist who has worked in media for more than 17 years, I leave this federal courthouse today with one question. Do we have a constitution

57:51 or not? No, we don't look like I should be protected under the first amendment just like all of the journalists who I've been advocating for too. I've been advocating for mainstream media journalists who have been brutalized

58:04 for months. Do we have a constitution? That is the pressing question that should be on the front of everyone's minds. And so to everybody who showed up today, thank you. Uh please continue to support the other people who are being charged. Uh obviously because there's ongoing litigation, there is not much that I can say beyond what I'm saying now. But amplifying the truth, documenting what is happening in our community is not a crime. And the questions that were were asked a few weeks ago on a Sunday morning by concerned community members, those questions still need to be answered. And as a journalist, I am committed to continuing to follow the story until their questions are answered. Thank you so much.

58:55 A proud and honorable person. I'm glad to call her a fellow journalist and commentator. Uh I now will continue to follow Georgia Foot's career and I think our audience uh should as well. Let's switch gears uh Dena and talk about grand juries in another context. Uh Donald Trump didn't like a video that six members of Congress led by Alyssa Lockin, senator from Michigan um and Mark Kelly, senator from Arizona, other members of Congress who have served our nation proudly as members of the intelligence community andor the military. And all they did was state a fact, an immutable fact about the code of military justice, the Nuremberg principles, and the rest, which is if you've sworn to uphold an oath as a federal officer in our mil or in our military, you cannot follow an illegal order uh of uh of your commander-in-chief or any commander.

59:50 That is not a defense. And it was a reminder not to give up the ship, that they had their back, that we have their back, and that um you can't just do something that you know is wrong and against the Constitution and law and military justice. That's just that's just a restatement of of what is in the code of military justice. Trump didn't like it. Said hang them from the highest tree and George Washington would hang them. right on Q. Pete Hegsth said uh there he called them the sedicious six even though 10 years ago when he was at a military academy on a video that Alisa Slakkins office caught, he said the exact same thing about an illegal order. And and we knew that the the uh Department of Justice out of the DC US attorney's office led by Janine Piro, you know, she's the one that goes after anybody Donald Trump says go after. Oh, Federal Reserve Chairman Jay Powell for cost overruns on a building.

1:00:47 Yeah, I'll criminally investigate him. Uh, you know, she's the one that can't get indictments. You know, guy throws a salami sandwich. I'm not making this up. Guy throws a salami sandwich at an ICE officer, a parallegal. I think he worked for I think he worked for the Department of Justice, and she tries to indict him for assault on a federal officer. So apparently they went in they went in to indict six members of the Congress and sitting senators for the video and what happened.

1:01:18 I mean it's astonishing that sentence right there is a huge wakeup call trying to indict six sitting senators for a public service announcement. They are so against speech it's insane. so many things the deportation of students who have spoken out uh you know what they're doing with Don Lemon what they're doing with the senators because speech is a foundational bedrock for any democracy but our founders were well aware of the risks of a government having too much control over the everyday person that is something that they dealt with with the monarchy so they and some things they did not protect us about right I mean there's a whole heck of a lot the founders did not get in right Right.

1:02:03 Right. Slavery was allowed. Women couldn't vote until not that long ago. They did not protect us from the oligarchs and the billionaires because a lot of them were. But they knew the government was going to try to wield their power over somebody in a criminal trial. And it's perhaps one of the most strongest protections in the constitution for the everyday person is in the criminal justice system. And that's what we're seeing. There's thresholds like you pointed out, the probable cause. There's certain standards and thresholds the government must meet and normally as people always said right you could always ad h sandwich because the threshold is quite low. Most prosecutors have never wanted to bring criminal cases that they didn't think they could win because prosecutors always talk about their record right they're always like oh it was undefeated what they only want to bring winning cases. So, you've never really been in

1:02:56 this situation where they are being directed to bring cases for political purposes that are unwininnable. And that's why we've seen not only a lot of failures of the grand jury to be able to indict, such as here with the six sitting senators, but also we've seen them go to trial and jury after jury ruling against the government. You know, in Los Angeles, there was a grand jury that the tow truck driver, there was an ICE, another ICE arrest, and the tow truck driver towed the ICE vehicle and parked it around the corner. I think the ICE vehicle was around the corner, I think, for 13 minutes or something like that. They tried to charge him with a felony for that for years, punishable years in jail and the Grinch and the jury there didn't convict. We're seeing the DOJ bring cases that are unwinable for the pure purpose of persecution. And thankfully, so far, our criminal justice system has enough safeguards in place to

1:03:55 push back. Thank God for the grand juries. I mean, this is just the justice system, as you outlined it, rebelling. No, no, it's not the right word. protecting as a firewall the lawless Trump DOJ administration. Federal judges, as I started the podcast tonight, federal judges in 93 districts ruling 93% of the time against Donald Trump. The um juries not convicting when there is insufficient evidence. Now, look, when there's when there's sufficient evidence in a jury, I I believe in the jury system. So like so like you know um and I believe in appeals.

1:04:39 So when the judge in uh Milwaukee uh got indicted and convicted of interfering with u ICE's operations to pick up somebody Hannah Dugan. I'm like all right well I wasn't there in the when the jury ruled. So uh subject to an appeal you know that was the will of the jury. you know, a grand jury indicted John Bolton, you know, with a legitimate prosecutor in Virginia about, you know, uh, him perhaps violating the Espionage Act. Okay. Subject to he's he's innocent until proven guilty and an appeal right. Okay, that happened. I get it. I reported on it. But but juries are rebelling and judges because Donald Trump has crapped all over the Department of Justice and in just has ripped away a reputation that was centuries in the making in just a matter of a year reducing it to rubble and being completely untrustworthy. What did they think the impact was going to be? No, they don't get the benefit of

1:05:42 the doubt in court any longer. The tie doesn't go to the runner. There's the judges are no and magistrate judges are no longer rubber stamps for what comes out of the Department of Justice's mouth which they used to be. Uh and so magistrate judges are rejecting the Department of Justice, judges are rejecting it. Juries are rejecting it and now grand jury. So effectively the entire justice system is groaning under the strain but is holding is holding. That's why Donald Trump has to lash out at boogeymen like Leonard Leo, the head of the Federalist Society. Oh, you told me to get these judges on. These are the wrong judges. Forget that. Even Trump judges are ruling against Donald Trump, you know, time and time and time again.

1:06:24 So, I think that's a that's a that's a great report, great briefing for our audience. Uh, and and put that right in the long in the long line of failed indictments so far. You know, they're they're 0 for three against Leticia James. Leticia James, the New York Attorney General, who I'm going to be interviewing next week. I'm so happy about this, along with 13 other attorneys general at their conference in San Francisco. And we'll be doing actually three panels, and I'll be doing some individual interviews as well. Uh she uh the grand one of the grand juries not only would not indict, but they wanted to publicly announce that they were returning they were not returning a true bill of indictment that they were going to no no bill it which is unusual because they usually just go home and there's no indictment. No, they wanted to come back in open court and announce that they weren't going to indict

1:07:18 Leticia James. And when the government found out about it, the Department of Justice, they freaked out and they asked the judge to seal it so that you and I and the public would not know that the grand jury had gone that far. And the judge said, "Well, I don't know why they want I can only speculate," he said, as to why they wanted to announce that in open court, but I am not go but having having them had made that decision to do it, I am not going to seal it, you know, to save you the embarrassment. Just shows you the grand juries are fighting back. And as Don Lemon said in his filing to to kind of bring this full circle, the grand jury is a check against unfounded prosecution, a bull work between the accuser and the accused. And citing to a case of the United States Supreme Court in 1974 called Kandra, the founders thought that the grand jury so essential to basic liberties that they provided in the

1:08:14 fifth amendment that federal prosecution for serious crimes can only be instituted by a presentment or indictment of a grand jury in order to protect citizens against arbitrary and oppressive governmental action. And therefore, every defendant, every American, every person has a constitutional right to an independent and informed grand jury. Period. End of story. Something that Har Dylan, you know, the number five in the Department of Justice, doesn't seem to understand. Todd Blanch, the number two in the Department of Justice. Pam Bondi, the number one in the Department of Justice, or or the solicitor general, the number four in the Department of Justice, John Sauer. This this this is basic you and I in con law constitutional law 101 learned ingrained right it I wouldn't be able to take that position if I worked for the department of justice because it's so ingrained in me I don't know

1:09:12 about you we spent five weeks five weeks in constitutional law in law school on Marbury versus Madison for

1:09:21 okay by a former solicitor general of the United States Walter the late Walter Dillinger. Okay. So, I can't it's like I I I'm allergic to the concept that our Constitution doesn't provide under the fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments these basic rights, which is the which is how we broke away and why we broke away from the monarchy of of England. All right? It's the foundational principles of our of our existence, our very existence. And yet and yet just they just the Trump administration and its political hacks just blfully uh pass it over like they're running through a stop sign, you know?

1:10:06 Yeah. I mean, the law is there to serve the people. The government doesn't need the law. They have the power. The law is there to serve the people. And so, I 100% agree with you. Those of us who care about our profession and got into this believe in that fundamental principle and they are trying to twist it and thankfully not not very successfully absolutely in all cases.

1:10:27 So well put. So we're going to uh we're going to take a little breather here. Little bathroom break for those of us and other things. Uh but there's a lot of different ways to support what we do. If you if you want to vote early voting has started. If you want to vote for Legal AF, hit the subscribe button for Legal AF on Midas. Hit the subscribe button. Go over to Legal AF YouTube and become a member or a paid member on Legal AF YouTube. We got a dozen videos a day, including Dana Dah. You'll see regularly there. We have podcasts like Unprecedented, which she and I do at the intersection of law and politics and the Supreme Court. Every week we've got the Court of History with Sydney Blumenthal and Shawn Wentz and the guest that they get.

1:11:11 Mindboggling Court Accountability Action about federal corruption in our court system up to the United States Supreme Court does amazing work. Uh a couple of amazing lawyers out in California uh do a show called uh Civil Action with their videos. We've got um uh we've got Dave Aaronburgg, Florida Law Guy. We've got Al Adam Klasfeld of All Rise News. We've got the American Civil Liberties Union. Regular reporting by Democracy Forward. Uh Dena's with been with me from the beginning, right? That's quite a roster, right?

1:11:47 I know. I was thinking that it's amazing. I Yeah. I mean, October is that been 14 months something 15.

1:11:55 Remember that phone call I had with you? I'm gonna do this thing. I'm going to for you know, that's where we are.

1:12:01 Yeah. Absolutely. And of course, we we talked about our Substack, which is a great way to get live reporting. I do it sometimes with guests like Dena and Adam Clasfeld and sometimes by myself. Lots of reporting there. Lots of written commentary and essays you can only find on Substack. Become a paid member to encourage you to do it for Valentine's Day weekend. 35% off. Put a heart around that for monthly membership on Legal AF Substack. And then we've got our prodemocracy sponsors. Some of some are have just joined us. Some have been with us, Dina, like for like the whole ride, like for six years. So, and here's another word from our sponsors.

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1:15:10 Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. Welcome back to Legal AF at Saturday. I'm Michael Popach and I'm joined with our guest anchor Dena Dah. And I thought a great way to wrap the show, Dena, um in last but not least is this turning point and I want to debate it or discuss it with you that I think's happened now with Pam Bondi, the Department of Justice, and the American people. I think there's been a complete breach. I think there's there's um the American people now see through having watched Pam Bondi twice at an oversight committee hearing that know that they she lied to the American people when she said in her confirmation hearing that she'd be a uh independent Department of Justice head. She's nothing more than a partisan political hack who can't even bring herself to acknowledge the suffering of Epstein sexual abuse survivors and victims. One of which was my is my client Lisa Phillips. Um there

1:16:07 were a lot of moments in the six or seven hours. Um there were just some that were just too far even for MAGA. You've got Eric Ericson, who is a huge right-wing influencer who wants her gone, who thought the moment for him, and I'm going to play it about the tie in Epstein with Bondi is um when she refused in response to a question from Jamie Rascin to talk about how she was going to investigate and prosecute those people that are in the 3 million pages, including dozens of men and other powerful people. And instead of talking about it from a Department of Justice standpoint and and giving people some sort of comfort, including the victims, that the Department of Justice was going to do this and not continue to cover up, she instead became some sort of uh I don't know what it was just this bizarre moment where she it was almost like they gave her that binder, which she obviously had, and she felt like she had

1:17:05 to get in the last talking points about the economy when we're talking about sex abuse, and she felt like she was running out of time. So, she had to shove it in there. It was the weirdest thing. But for people like Eric Ericson and and Laura Loomer, who hates her, who's a right-wing a right-wing influencer over Donald Trump, calls her blam blondie, uh this this might have been the moment. I mean, the whole thing for me was the moment. But let's play the J let's play the response to Jamie Rascin when she starts touting the economy instead of responding to the question about who she's going to prosecute next about the Epstein files.

1:17:40 The Dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing. You're a great stock trader as I hear rascin. The Dow is over $50,000 right now. The S&P at almost 7,000 and the NASDAQ smashing records. Americans 401ks and retirement savings are booming. That's what we should be talking about. We should be talking about making Americans safe. We should be talking about what does a DAO have to do with anything? That's what they just asked. Are you kidding?

1:18:14 Mr. Jordan, am I Mr. Jordan? Committee will be in order. Mr. Jordan, am I going to get an extra 45 seconds added to my time?

1:18:23 The committee will be in order. The time belongs to the gentleman from Texas, Miss Bondi. The attorney general can respond.

1:18:30 Thank you. The DAO has shattered 50,000 for the first time. This is crazy. They said it couldn't be done in four years, yet President Trump has done it in one year.

1:18:44 And and Eric Ericson took a look at that and said this alone should have her removed as the attorney general. What was your We got a few more clips to play. Uh including one about Epstein and the survivors being Let me play that first. Let Let's Let's uh Let's do then I'll I'll turn it over to you. Let's play the clip now. Now, the infamous clip, which I think is the final nail in Pam Bondi's coffin, where all she's asked to do was to acknowledge the suffering and speak to the um the victims who all raised their hand and said, "No one in the Department of Justice, the FBI has spoken to them." I asked Lisa Phillips when she was on the show with me, "Has anybody, Donald Trump, Department of Justice, anybody sat down with you?" I mean, Donald Trump sits down with anybody in the Oval Office. And her answer was no. Let's play the clip

1:19:36 to the survivors in the room. If you are willing, please stand. And if you are willing, please raise your hands. If you have still not been able to meet with this Department of Justice, please know for the record that every single survivor has raised their hand. when you when the photo came out of that, it was Pam Bondi staring down at her pad rather than turn around and acknowledge any of them in the room. Um, for me it it is I I actually was There it is. Thank you very much. And and my client is right above Pam Bondi's head, Lisa Phillips, uh, there as well. So, for me, the first oversight committee hearing was such a debacle. I didn't think she'd make it to the next one. Um, but Trump keeps trotting her out like the quarterback that keeps getting it. I felt like it was a Super Bowl again.

1:20:38 Like the quarterback that keeps getting sacked a dozen times and getting beat up at the line of scrimmage, but they have no other choice or they keep trotting them out. I mean, she's getting I mean, any other era, she would have not made it to this hearing, let alone act like this at this hearing. What did you make of it? Yeah, I mean she was speaking to an audience of one Trump and he was happy with it. He posted afterwards how much he liked it that I thought both Rasin and Congresswoman Jal did an excellent job that that image where Bonnie refused to turn around and apologize for the fact that they released so much private information illegally about the survivors is devastating. Never mind the fact that they're unwilling to prosecute, investigate, meet with them at all. So that is going to be again, we're talking about history books today. That picture is going to also be on the history books. But the

1:21:33 irony is that I actually think her comment about the Dow Jones was maybe perhaps the one time she was telling the truth because Trump, this Epstein class, that is true. All they cared about was the money, right? They were so willing to not investigate these billionaires and tech people and all the people. We haven't even I think scratched the surface yet to find out all the people, but they were willing to give a sex trafficker like Epstein and Jaglain Maxwell a pass in a large part because of the money. And so, and although it seemed like a you know nonsequerator, like how is she talking about the Dow?

1:22:15 The irony is I actually think that's exactly how Trump thinks about it. Trump thinks I don't want to get in trouble. I don't want my rich friends to get in trouble because they're giving me money and doing who knows what behind the scenes to keep this under wraps. So, ironically, I think that was revealing. And, you know, I also think part of the reason why she acted that way, the bluster, the non-responsiveness, is because she really couldn't say anything that was going to be true. And we saw Cash Patel when he was trotted out basically lie and say Jeffrey Epstein didn't traffic to anybody else. That's a complete lie. He can now be perjured for that testimony, never mind impeached.

1:22:56 And she knows I mean she is a lawyer, right? As much as we feel like she's a failed lawyer, she is a lawyer. She knew she could not answer any of those questions in the way Trump would have wanted her to without lying. And so I think her bluster was actually an attempt to probably protect herself because there is no way to truthfully answer those questions in a way that doesn't reveal how much they Trump and Bondie and the rest of them are covering up with who knows how many co-conspirators or abusers that are part of that Epstein class.

1:23:36 Yeah, there's a lot of magical thinking. I didn't realize there were so many people who were biting their fingernails and white knuckling the release of the Epstein files. You know, from Howard Lutnik, the cabinet secretary, to the general counsel for Goldman Sachs to the head of Paul Weiss, a major law firm in New York, all these people knew that knew that they were in or thought they could be in EP the Epstein files and were holding on for dear life to their careers. And except for the people that are in Trump's inner circle like Trump and Howard Lutnik so far, everybody else has paid the price, especially in the last two weeks. General counsel of Goldman Sachs, probably the greatest financial services company in the world.

1:24:16 She had to resign in disgrace because of her close relationship with Epstein, in which she was guiding him on how to attack victims and rehabilitate his reputation and and became friends with him after he was already convicted of child prostitution charges in in Florida, which which predated his indictment on child sex trafficking. Uh, and talked about massages and things with him. Okay, she's gone. Uh, but again, the magical thinking of these people, like they're the smartest people in the room. Oh, my emails will never be disclosed. Yeah, f that. So, she's gone.

1:24:52 Then, now we have an explanation as to why Paul Weiss I was scratching my head why among the dozen law firms that settled.

1:25:00 That Paul Weiss of all things was the first firm to settle for $40 million of free proono work, which set the standard. Eventually, it became a hund00 million for other firms. I was like, that's so weird. I know people at Paul Weiss, it was a competitor firm. I worked at Scadorps. I'm like, and I know people from my class that work at Paul Weiss. I'm like, what what happened there? It all comes down to Brad Karp. Brad Karp was the head of until yesterday was the head of Paul Weiss. And now the question is, is the reason he led the firm to settle so quickly is because he was trying to curry favor with the Trump administration to keep the Epstein files under lock and key because of his unholy relationship with Epstein through the head of Apollo, a major financial services firm, and Leon Black where they were where they were in the Epstein files. Karp at Paul Weiss was trying to figure out how to get a

1:25:56 survivor victim deported in order for her not to bring charges against Leon Black for sex abuse. Um, so here here's a guy that that uh thinks part of being a lawyer is to deport a victim of child sex trafficking or se sex trafficking so that they don't talk. So now sort of now I know why Paul Weiss settled. I'm just not sure his partners know that that's the reason he wanted a quick settlement there.

1:26:25 Yeah. And he was the public facing of the whole capitulation. He tried to say, "Oh, it's going to be fine. We're going to just do some pro bono." And yeah, he reviewed Epstein's 2008 plea agreement and gave advice about that. And Leon Black, I mean, he's the one who testified, if you remember, during the to Congress about that 2016 uh election interference that he had been in Russia with Trump at a strip bar.

1:26:53 Oh, I don't surprise, right? So, and Leon Black is a client of Brad Karp and that's how he meets Epstein. I mean there yeah you really start to connect the dots and honestly pop I think we're just starting like to your point about like we are just barely

1:27:08 Elon Musk brother is tied into Epstein through one of the victims. Okay. A brother we don't usually talk about, you know. Um, and then even out by you and on the west to do the West Coast swing, Casey Werstein, who's the grandson of Lou Werstein, who's no Werman. Wasserman. Wasserman. Wasserman. Lou Wasserman. And Casey Werman, who who is a huge talent agent out in Hollywood. He's the chairman of the 2028 Olympic Committee for LA. Right. He's he just he just resigned and has to sell his company in disgrace because he was playing footsie in emails with Galain Maxwell of all people while he was married talking about massages and other things. I mean so all I just did not realize how many people were white knuckling in America the release of the Epstein files of women and men of the rich and powerful. It's just it's just mindboggling. Leo Black gave Epstein $160 million for adi for for advisory

1:28:08 services. I mean, it's just it's just lawyers don't make that much for trust and estate planning,

1:28:15 right? Let alone let alone everybody might be doing it. So then you've got just to round out this this segment, you've got this uh Donald Trump trying to make lemonade out of lemons because of the disclosure that in 2006 2006, let's keep the timeline here. He reported to the uh local police chief for the small billionaire enclave of Palm Beach, Florida, where Mara Lago sits, that he had that he thought Jeffrey Epstein was doing disgusting things, that all of quote unquote New York, knew about it, and that Galain Maxwell, you know, the one he's thinking about pardoning and and said nice things about him, was evil. This is in a written report taken in intake by the by the uh Palm Beach uh chief of police.

1:29:08 That's 2006. Okay. So if 2006 if Donald Trump knew about Jeffrey Epstein sexually abusing girls and young women, okay, then how do you explain that in 2019 he denied knowing that when asked by a reporter? And then I'll throw one more piece into the timeline. 26 2006 that 2010 Jeffrey Epstein gives a video deposition in which he takes the fifth amendment about Donald Trump and young girls. Let's start with the 2006 police report and the 2019 denial by Donald Trump of what he admitted to in 2006 which was that he knew that Jeffrey Epste was doing uh immoral or dirty things uh under the table. Let's play the clip from CBS News. A newly surfaced record in the Epstein files alleges Trump told a Palm Beach police chief 20 years ago about Epstein. Thank goodness you're stopping him. Everyone has known he's been doing this. And that he was around Epstein once when teenagers were present but got the hell out of there. That

1:30:16 contradicts Trump's claim he was unaware of Epstein's crimes. What did Jeffrey Epstein mean in his emails when you said you knew about the girls?

1:30:24 I know nothing about them. The White House press secretary could not answer if the account was true. Look, that there was a phone call that may or may not have happened in 2006. I don't know the answer to that question. What I'm telling you is that what President Trump has always said is that he kicked Jeffrey Epstein out of his Mara Lago club.

1:30:41 Yeah. When when Carolyn Levit looks nervous and doesn't look like she's telling the truth, you know something's wrong because she's always, as the chief propagandist, always defending Donald Trump. Well, I don't know if that call took place. All right. Now, the police chief of Palm Beach County lied about a call he had with Donald Trump in 2006 to to report that. I doubt that. And then let's play. Now, it all comes together, right? When Jeffrey Epstein is being deposed in a case under oath in a video in 20 in 2010, here's Jeffrey Epstein taking the fifth amendment about his relationship with Donald Trump and about Donald Trump and young girls. Play it.

1:31:22 Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump? What do you mean by personal relationships?

1:31:30 Have you socialized with him? Yes, sir. Yes. Yes, sir. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18? though. I'd like to answer that question. At least today I'm going to have to assert my fifth, sixth, and 14th amendment right.

1:31:56 Yeah. So now it all sort of comes together. So what do you make of it uh uh Dena about the Donald Trump's knowledge going even going back even earlier in 2005 2004 him telling the New Yorker magazine that that Jeffrey Epstein likes young girls likes young women I mean that's all cons that's all consistent what didn't track is when as he's running for the running for office he started to change his tune about his relationship uh about his about his his uh his BFF Epstein and his wingman for going after women through modeling agencies and phony beauty pageantss and then denying there on the fly uh that he he knew about Epstein and young girls. What do you make of all of it?

1:32:44 Well, for one, a liar just can't keep track of their lies. And secondly, I mean, reading I read that Virginia Grey's book, her nobody's girl, and she said anybody that spent a sign significant time with Epstein knew what he was doing. The young girls were always around partially if not clothed at all. The pictures on the wall. She's like, "You could not have spent a sign significant amount of time without knowing." Trump is one of his oldest and longest friends. He knew. He always knew. Probably participated. You know, there's a lot of evidence on that. We, you know, more to be revealed. But so, you know, he just can't keep his story straight. He says the thing he wants to say. Trump is the most laticious person in general. The fact that he actually hasn't sued based on this, I think tells you everything. He threatened to with Trevor Noah. I haven't seen a filing yet. He will never sue based on these

1:33:33 claims because it opens him up to discovery which would only show the truth of the matter. He, you know, even Cindy McCain, no dog in the fight, said years ago, everybody knew this about Epstein. Everybody knew this about Epstein. and he was going to social parties with him, checking, you know, we see the videos of what he's checking out, goggling, you know, the model agency. He knew. He always knew. But liars just can't keep their lives straight.

1:34:01 Yeah, that's right. Well, what a tangled web we weave. Um, and this will be, you know, this Donald Trump has spent years trying to get out from under the stench of the Epstein relationship. And the reason he can't get out from under it is he will never level with the American people. If he just took to a podium and said, "I had a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. We owned a modeling agency together. We did beauty pageantss together. I was single for most of it. We had women. I believe they were all over age, you know, of of a prop appropriate age. Um, I didn't know much about his personal life. I didn't know about the massages and this and that and the other thing. Um, I suspected he liked young women, but not that he was sexually abusing them. uh and etc. et and I will be at the forefront to protect victims and survivors and release everything and lead my department of justice and my FBI to

1:34:58 bring to justice those that abuse those women. This story would be over. But he can't bring himself to do it because a he doesn't know what the heck is in the in the files. He knows he did bad things. He knows he did bad things. But do you think I actually think that's why he doesn't say anything? Because I fundamentally think he doesn't think he did bad things and I don't even know if he thinks that what Xping did was bad.

1:35:23 Well, we know what he did last summer to paraphrase from a movie. So, who is he fooling? I mean, I

1:35:30 But, you know, I think like really really he doesn't believe like the reason why he won't quote come clean is he really doesn't think he did anything wrong. And I don't think he thinks Epstein did anything wrong. And that's really the base problem.

1:35:43 Well, that's the problem. And then therefore he it will be the first line in his obituary. It will be a stench, an indelible stench that will that has carved itself into the Trump administration and Department of Justice that he will never be able to erase. And he wonders why. But the Dow is at 50,000 but this and that and I GOT WHY ARE WHY ARE WE STILL WE'RE still talking about it? because it has a fundamental defect in character, potentially crimes, has to do with abuse of women and sexual abuse of fragile and disadvantaged people. And it's a

1:36:20 and children. What is it? And children. And children, right? Yeah. Maybe because your best I'm sorry. I've listen, we I'm not my brother's keeper, but I also wasn't best friends with a with a indicted child sex trafficker and a and a convicted child sex trafficker. And if I was, I'd go, "Wow, who knew?" Wow. I mean, if I had a friend that it turned out behind my back or under was a major like cocaine dealer or trafficker, I'd be like, "Holy who knew?" But like if I like ran with him and I was on the if I was on the power boat in the middle of the middle of Miami Biscane Bay and he was dropping packages off the side, I'd be like, hm, maybe maybe I'm complicit in something here. But this is what Donald Trump, as you said, will never admit because it's political suicide for him to admit it. And but the I guess the byproduct of that is this is an issue front and center to the American people. They've already made up

1:37:23 their mind. I mean, if there's anybody in America that hasn't heard about the Epstein scandal that's a voter, I'd be shocked at this point. People have made up their mind already about Donald Trump, the illicit behavior, the immorality, the lawlessness, the the abuse of women. This is not the first it'd be like if we heard about this about Barack Obama, we'd all be shocked. like Barack Obama. But Donald Trump said he could grab a woman by her genitalia and get away with it because he's a celebrity and jam his his lizard tongue down their throat bec because he's a celebrity. Okay. He he we had a case involving Eugene Carol where multiple women took the stand against great personal sacrifice to testify about being sexually assaulted by Donald Trump on airplanes at Mara Lago.

1:38:16 Okay? You know, he paid off dozens of women, including former beauty queens and strippers. I mean, this is this is Donald Trump. This is why I say I don't know how he could ever maintain a defamation case. His reputation literally cannot be defamed. He doesn't have a good reputation that can be sullied. This this is always which actually came up in a recent in one of the cases involving him saying that he was defamed by the Dow Jones and by the Wall Street Journal. The lawyers for the Wall Street Journal famously wrote in their pleadings that Donald Trump literally his reputation cannot be defamed by a birthday book with a pornographic uh cartoon supplied on behalf of Donald Trump into Epstein's birthday book. But u but we need to follow it. And yes, every time she sits in that seat, Todd Blanch sits in that seat, FBI director Cash Patel, they're going to get asked questions about what are they doing for

1:39:18 the survivors and the victims and it's the right question to ask and we're going to continue to train our sights on it here on Legal AF. Listen, we've reached the end of our Legal AF episode with Dena Dal and Michael Popach. We thank everybody for being such great supporters. You know what to do to support us. Hit the free subscribe button on Midas Touch. Do the same thing on Legal AF YouTube channel. If you can swing being become a paid member, all the better. That helps with giving us the resources to continue to grow to meet the moment. And then of course, we've got in addition to Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Got this amazing thing you may not have yet discovered called Substack. Go on to Legal AF Substack.

1:39:58 I'm running a Valentine's Day special. 35% off annual paid membership only on Legal AF Substack. Dena, I'll give you the last word. I'm so glad you you you sat in today, but but uh let's give you the last word in commentary.

1:40:14 I'm so glad to be here. You know, we're starting to see the cracks of the foundation and we just here we're we're all of us in this community are opening the cracks with information to further divide MAGA, dilute their power. we can't uh you know keep going with this path but it's it's hopeful starting to see him lose so much support which he is even among that MAGA base

1:40:36 absolutely six republic well I don't want to I said I'd give you the last word that I was going to comment that's the last you and I love that hopefully I'm going to see you in California next week we're going to try hard to make that happen so until then shout out to the mightest mighty in the legal efforts

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "LIVE: Trump IS BURIED by EPSTEIN FILE RECKONING…AND MORE!!! | Legal AF"?

Michael Popach (Host), Dena Dah (Host).

What is "LIVE: Trump IS BURIED by EPSTEIN FILE RECKONING…AND MORE!!! | Legal AF" about?

The discussion focuses on the legal challenges facing the Trump administration, highlighting that a staggering 93% of over 4,000 civil rights cases against it are being lost. Key issues include misconduct by ICE agents who allegedly lied in a shooting incident, as well as concerns about leadership in the Department of Homeland Security amidst reports of personal scandals affecting its governance.

What is mentioned in this MeidasTouch episode?

31 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, Epstein file, Jeffrey Epstein, Department of Justice, ICE, Grand Jury. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "LIVE: Trump IS BURIED by EPSTEIN FILE RECKONING…AND MORE!!! | Legal AF"?

The episode runs 1 h 41 min; the transcript is about 17,110 words in 151 timestamped sections.

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