Transcript

LIVE: Trump LOSES CONTROL as BACKLASH GROWS

From MeidasTouch · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 2 min · 11,496 words · 134 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "LIVE: Trump LOSES CONTROL as BACKLASH GROWS", an episode of MeidasTouch published January 28, 2026 (1 h 2 min, about 11,496 words). It mentions 16 people, works and ideas, including Alex Freddy, Steven Miller, ICE, Kirsty Nome, Majority 54.

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on the recent backlash against Trump's administration following the controversial shooting of Alex Freddy in Minneapolis, highlighting how this incident threatens his credibility as public sentiment shifts. Additionally, the conversation delves into the ongoing debate about immigration policies, featuring insights from a former ICE official to clarify misconceptions about the current administration's actions compared to past administrations.

Key takeaways

  • Trump's military-style bravado in Minnesota is as effective as a paper shield in a showdown.
  • The administration's mishandling of the shooting aftermath gives new meaning to 'shoot first, ask questions later.'
  • Calling a victim a terrorist without evidence? Just add it to the playbook of political theater.
  • Names matter: the delay in revealing the officers' identities invites suspicion and echoes of past cover-ups.
  • If accountability was a game, Trump’s team would be the undisputed champions of dodgeball.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Alex Freddy, Kirsty Nome, Senator Rand Paul, Dr. Belinda Beck
  2. – 20:00: Laura Jadid, HIMS, Kirsty Nome, Department of Homeland Security
  3. – 30:00: Steven Miller, Neutrifll, Tom Holman, Sam Altman
  4. – 40:00: Department of Homeland Security, Dupe.com
  5. – 50:00: Dupe.com, George Herbert Walker Bush
  6. – 1:00:00: Barack Hussein Obama, Tom Holman

Notable quotes from "LIVE: Trump LOSES CONTROL as BACKLASH GROWS"

  • The shooting of Alex Freddy have been placed on leave. So, we will get into that. in regular news, like Thanos, Trump believes he's inevitable, but that don't make it true. We're watching in.
    about Alex Freddy · at
  • Examination. And let's start with CNN put together a helpful mashup of Kirsty Nome and Boino both talking about this killing right after it happened.
    about Kirsty Nome · at
  • I think what we found out from Axios is that their talking points were they came straight from Steven Miller himself, which is something we'll get to. there have been reactions from all across the spectrum here. starting with Rand Paul who.
    about Steven Miller · at
  • This is compelling video because what this BBC reporter is saying is true.
    about Dr. Belinda Beck · at
  • A false identity or anything. She's a known reporter with a very recognizable name and she got all the way to the point where she got an offer. and her conclusion was these…
    about Laura Jadid · at
  • The DHS Office of Civil Rights, which President Obama put in specifically to address these types of concerns, has been totally cut down. it's one of the biggest things that the vote on.
    about Department of Homeland Security · at
  • And actually, the majority of people who are detained are just people who have a monthly check-in. you go, you do your case. When your case is going on, you have to check in every month or.
    about ICE · at
  • President Bush goes on, not President Trump goes on TV and says, Well, we should trust Tom Holman because Tom Hman got an award from President Obama. Tom Hman got an award with…
    about Tom Holman · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Alex Freddy — Person · Victim / central incident subject · 2 mentions · first at
    The episode centers on the shooting and killing of Alex Freddy in Minneapolis and the subsequent official response and accountability questions.
  • Steven Miller — Person · Referenced administration official / alleged source of talking points · 5 mentions · first at
    Portrayed as a key architect of messaging and policy posture; discussed as a potential liability and as the source of official talking points after the killing.
  • Kirsty Nome — Person · Referenced public official / spokesperson in clip · 3 mentions · first at
    Featured in a CNN mashup delivering the administration’s initial narrative about the killing; later discussed as facing calls to step down.
  • Barack Hussein Obama — Person · Referenced former president (comparative benchmark) · 2 mentions · first at
    Used as a comparison point for prior immigration enforcement and deportation practices versus the current administration’s actions.
    Your life to abandon him. In the latter half of the show, we're going to talk to a former ICE official under George W.
  • Senator Rand Paul — Person · Referenced senator reacting to incident · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited for criticizing the handling of the shooting and calling for standard protocol (administrative leave and independent investigation).
    To. there have been reactions from all across the spectrum here. starting with Rand Paul who said local police routinely put officers involved in deadly shootings on…
  • Tom Holman — Person · Referenced immigration enforcement official · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as being 'in' as messaging shifts; discussed as a figure invoked to legitimize enforcement via past recognition under Obama.
  • Dr. Belinda Beck — Person · Referenced commentator (used as cross-ideological validation) · 2 mentions · first at
    A right-leaning media figure whose analysis is used to show the video evidence appears compelling even to conservative commentators.
  • Laura Jadid — Person · Referenced reporter (case study on ICE/DHS hiring practices) · 2 mentions · first at
    Used to illustrate alleged lax vetting and credibility issues: she reportedly attended an ICE hiring fair and obtained an offer, then DHS disputed it.
  • George Herbert Walker Bush — Person · Referenced former president (context for guest credentials) · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned to situate the guest/expert’s experience as a former ICE official spanning Bush and Obama administrations.
    Your life to abandon him. In the latter half of the show, we're going to talk to a former ICE official under George W.
  • Sam Altman — Person · Referenced tech executive reacting publicly · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as an example of a prominent non-government figure issuing a statement; hosts critique the tone and perceived motive of his statement.
    Yeah. Or my personal favorite is the Open AI CEO Sam Alman who issues a statement saying that he has lines and you know like even he has to speak out when you know justice calls for it.

Companies & orgs

  • ICE — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed extensively in the context of immigration enforcement and recent controversies.
  • Majority 54 — Company · Host · 1 mention · first at
    The podcast itself, discussing political and social issues.
    Conservative friends. So, we're going to go to the source and learn exactly what's what as far as that goes. Welcome back to the podcast. For the 54% of Americans who regularly…
  • Department of Homeland Security — Company · Business focus · 3 mentions · first at
    Mentioned in relation to ICE operations and oversight.

Sponsors

  • Dupe.com — Product · Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at
    Promoted as a tool for finding affordable alternatives to expensive products.
    Price tag? Well, I'm going to let you in on a secret called dupe.com. It's ridiculously easy to use. All you have to do is go to dupe.com and paste any product URL or upload a…
  • Neutrifll — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Promoted as a hair growth supplement during the podcast.
    And growth quality and strength, helping you reach your hair goals with confidence. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just 3 to 6 months with Neutrifll.
  • HIMS — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    Advertised as an online service for ED treatment and other health needs.
    ED is more common than you think and simpler to treat than ever. Through HIMS, you can connect online with a licensed provider to access personalized treatment options discreetly and on your own terms. Through HIMS, you can access.

Full transcript with timestamps

Breaking news. It was just announced that the two officers involved uh in the shooting in Minneapolis the other day. The shooting of Alex Freddy have been placed on leave. So, we will get into that. Uh in regular news, like Thanos, Trump believes he's inevitable, but that don't make it true. We're watching in real time as his administration's catastrophic failure in Minnesota delivers a powerful blow to his credibility and his popularity. In short, we're watching him begin to wave a white flag in Minnesota a bit, and we should unpack how it happened and how it informs the way you persuade those in your life to abandon him. In the latter half of the show, we're going to talk to a former ICE official under George W.

Bush and Obama. Many have tried to say that what's happening now is no different than what prior administrations did with ICE. You've been seeing this in your social media feed. You've been hearing it from your conservative friends. So, we're going to go to the source and learn exactly what's what as far as that goes. Welcome back to the podcast. For the 54% of Americans who regularly vote for progress in every election and want to convince their friends and family members to join our majority, this is Majority 54. Well, Jason, you know, with with as with the good killing, there's conduct that happened before uh the shooting that is inappropriate and worthy of examination. There's the shooting and killing itself, and then there's the official reaction to it. And just like with the good shooting, the official reaction is in some ways a really important place to start. Uh because it's it shows that like no

matter what charitable interpretation you want to give to some of these events, which this one is very hard to find such a thing, I would say as hard or even harder than for good. Uh the way the administration handled the aftermath of this I think is worthy of examination. And let's start with uh CNN put together a helpful mashup of uh Kirsty Nome and Boino both talking about this killing right after it happened.

An individual an individual approached Border Patrol officers with a 9mm semi-auto hand.

The officers attempted to disarm this individual disarm the individual armed suspect but he violently resisted fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers. An agent fired defensive shots. Medics were on the scene immediately,

delivered medical aid to the subject, but the subject was pronounced dead at the scene.

This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage,

where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement. This individual went and impeded their law enforcement operations, attacked those officers, had a weapon on him and multiple dozens of rounds of ammunition, wishing to inflict harm on these officers coming brandishing like that and impeding their work that they were doing.

If either of these public officials had an ounce of decency, they would call up Alex Bry's parents and apologize.

Yeah. I mean, you know what stuck out to me? I mean, obviously they're reading from literally the same himnil. Uh, but the other thing that stuck out to me there that I hadn't noticed in previous viewings, uh, was that they both said it caused an agent to fire defensive shots when it turns out two agents actually fired. And so, I mean, so they were even lying about that at the time.

Yeah. I mean, this is unbelievable. And I think um what we found out from Axios is that their talking points uh were uh they came straight from Steven Miller himself, which is something we'll get to. Uh you know, there have been reactions from all across the spectrum here. Um starting with Rand Paul who said local police routinely put officers involved in deadly shootings on administrative lead until an independent investigation is concluded. That should happen immediately. I can't recall ever hearing a police chief immediately describing the victim as a domestic terrorist or would be assassin. for comm to re be restored. An independent investigation is the least that should be done. So obviously you just, you know, mentioned that breaking news is that they have been put on leave. I think there are a couple of problems here. We still don't know the names of these people. At least maybe they

released that when they they announced that they were on leave, but up up until this past hour, we didn't know their names. Uh the woman who shot this video was on CNN yesterday said that she hadn't been contacted by federal investigators. And the reason why this matters is when we don't know their names for at least a day, two, three, four days. Uh they're not on leave. Uh they can coordinate with each other. They can get their story straight with each other and whatever Trump administration officials are trying to coach them and they could scrub their social media of anything that could bring scrutiny. Like Lord knows what what kind of coordination, collusion, um conspiracies are going on behind the scenes. Uh that's why you need to know the names of these people immediately.

Never mind the fact that local law enforcement uh should be given the right to investigate this as well.

Yeah. I mean they have done everything they can to prevent local law enforcement from investigating it. Um and Rand Paul is exactly right. Like that is absolutely standard protocol in any police shooting. Even if it is a police shooting where there's no reason to think that anything was done in any way other than appropriate, folks are are pulled off the job right away. I mean, for one thing, they're they're pulled off the job often um for counseling, for certainly for debriefing. And in this case, it was just keep them out there. Nothing's changed. Um I mean, which honestly is how you would how you would regard it if they were deployed on a foreign battlefield. like it would be, oh, okay, you know, we got in a scrap. We're still doing the job. And that is indicative of how these folks see this operation in in Minneapolis. They think that they are conducting a counterinsurgency in a foreign on a foreign battlefield. Well,

I I could go through any number of clips of people breaking down this video. Uh, but I'm deliberately picking a a fairly far-right commentator just to show you uh how obvious it is to anybody who's even attempting to think clearly what happened here in this video. Let's go to Glenn Beck, who I think is making his first appearance on this podcast. This is compelling video because what this BBC reporter is saying is true. It's absolutely true. He is he is getting in between him the police and somebody else the police are shoving. He is only holding a phone. He is down on the ground. He is resisting arrest. But his hands are down on the ground. His head is down on the ground. Then another agent reaches over on top of the other agents who are closest to him on the ground. Reaches into his back where he sees an exposed gun. Pulls the gun out and then walks away with the gun. So, he's no longer armed unless he has two

guns. And they don't claim that he had two guns, only one. Um, and pulls it out and walks away. Right after that, somebody yells, "Gun, gun, gun, gun." That's when the police officer fires at him. Now, the other police officer did not know that somebody reached in and took his gun. It might have been somebody who was saying gun. Might have been saying it because they saw the other guy because he's not marked as a federal agent. um the other guy pulled the gun out and walking there with a gun. So, somebody might have seen him with a gun and said, "Gun, gun, gun." All the cops think that it's uh pretty and they shoot him. Okay, this is this is not something that you deal with um as you know, an 8-year-old.

This this is this is a conversation for adults to have. And I don't I'm not hearing the adults. First of all, what Gnome said is not true. He didn't approach he, if you want to say technically he approached carrying a 9mm, he did, but it was holstered and in his back. And you have a right to carry a gun at a protest. I don't think that makes you smart, but it does. It is perfectly legal and constitutionally protected. Yeah. You know what strikes me about this actually is that by obuscating the way they have and actually more than that by acting as though they knew exactly what happened and claiming that you know that Alex Prey was a domestic terrorist and was there to inflict damage and do all these things by making that the official story out of the gate. What they have done is they have they have actually deprived these officers of a defense being available to them in trial if they get that far, which is there's a couple

of ways to look at this, and I'm not in any way defending the officer or the agents, but there are a couple of scenarios that also could have happened here, right? First of all, as as Glenn Beck points out in that clip, somebody's yelling gun. Now, if you're at trial and you're wanting to say, "Look, yes, I I was the uh agent who shot him, but but somebody was yelling gun and I acted and you like if you're going for a manslaughter uh conviction instead of a of a murder conviction, for instance, they've deprived them of the opportunity to make that argument because what they have been publicly saying or at least made it a lot more difficult to make that argument. What they've been publicly saying is that the account of these officers was that this guy was violent toward them and they were acting in self-defense. The other possibility that nobody has mentioned here and has come up in my conversations with, you

know, gun uh enthusiasts and and and hobbyists who I talked to is that, you know, the the weapon that they pulled off of Alex Prey is a model of Sig Sauer that has had some issues with its firing pin and with negligent discharges. And it is possible, you can't tell from the video, that when the other agent pulled that uh weapon, it is possible that one of the first rounds that was fired came out of that weapon. Now, it would be easy to know. They could simply see whether or not um there was a round that had been discharged from it. But if that's the case, they've also deprived them of making that case in court, the ability to say, "Somebody yelled gun and then I heard a shot." Now, should that exonerate them? I would say no. But through their incompetence, they have deprived them of a potential defense in court of these these guys that they're supposedly interested in protecting.

Well, I I think of the many questions we should ask is who are these ICE officials and how are they trained? And I went down a rabbit hole this morning. I think you mentioned to me this woman uh Laura Jadid uh who did a story about how she went to an ICE hiring fair and um just wanted to see how far she can get by not lying like she wasn't giving a false identity or anything. She's a known reporter with a very recognizable name and she got all the way to the point where she got an offer. Uh and her conclusion was these people aren't even doing basic internet research. And one could say, okay, uh, she was a veteran and had like a background, a sterling background, like they hired the right, they hired the right person. What are you complaining about? Well, this is where DHS gets himself in trouble again, which is they then issued a statement after her reporting saying she's lying about getting an offer. So, they weren't

like, "Hey, we actually thought she was a good reporter, and this is a mark of us actually welcoming ideological diversity, even though she's a liberal reporter who's written stories are critical of us." No, they're like, "She's lying." So then she does what? She posts on the internet the actual offer she got from DHS and they've been silenced since. So it's like these people are just they they're such pathological liars that they can't even lie in ways that help their cases. Um I mean I have more to say about this training, but but I mean it's

let me let me add something about the training because it's it's it's a great point. So my understanding is their training is 47 days and it's 47 days to honor the 47th president. Not because

it's now 42 but what yeah it was it was 5 months before that. Oh you scaled it back five more days. Oh that's reassuring.

Well Jason here's a question for you though. Of those now 42 days that used to be 5 months. How much time do you think they get trained on deescalation? That was exactly the point I was going to make because my guess is is that they have some some amount of classroom training. Uh but mostly I bet what they're doing is they're they're probably in that amount of time training around expected ideal scenarios. You are entering a home, you are securing, you know, somebody that you've been sent in to get probably very limited variables thrown into that. highly unlikely that their training involves crowd control, that their training involves dealing with any of these variables. And the reason I say that is because when I when I was getting ready, this is let's see, I went through training to become an army officer uh over 20 years ago now. And and so we went through all this training prior to deploying

overseas. And in that training, we would have variables thrown in. First of all, you would have what they probably have people playing the person that they're supposed to uh arrest or detain or whatever who are probably ICE agents just like we had soldiers playing opposition forces. But what we also had that I bet you they do not have is we had other soldiers playing all sorts of other variables that would be thrown on the battlefield. There would be people there playing reporters or people saying they were reporters and we had to make, you know, remember what the environment in Afghanistan, Iraq was like at this time. We had to make split-second decisions as this person was wearing very bulky clothes and maybe it looked like they could have explosives under their under their jacket and another person would come up and just be like an iate civilian on the battlefield or and and people would make mistakes. We we

would, you know, and we were put in these situational training exercises and when you're going through training, you'd make mistakes. I saw I saw officer candidates and cadetses zip tie somebody who was supposed to be a reporter. I saw folks shoot the wrong people, right? And the reason for that was because they were emphasizing that they wanted us to make those mistakes in training so that they could chastise us, correct us, run it through the scenario again with different variables so that when we went overseas, we would be less likely to make those mistakes and 42 days. I promise you, I mean, we trained for like four years,

right? So, well, think about anything anybody's listening to this, think about anything you've learned that's of any significance. And this is of the highest significance because it involves life or death. Like is 42 days ever enough? You know, I went to pasta school for 60 days. And honestly, like my pasta ain't that good? That was 60 days of just making one little thing, you know? So, it's like what? It's like that's not a lot of time, man. And you know what? The Atlantic says it's 4 hours of deescalation specific training that they get of those 42 days. So, I mean, that's a that's a joke.

Do you know what you can do in four hours of deescalation? You can teach people how to check the box so that they have legally covered their ass, which they tried to deescalate. They aren't even doing that. I We'll get to the videos. I've watched non-stop videos of these creeps. These are people who are escalating. Like, they're not even checking the boxes cuz they know they have impunity. Let's let's deal with the Second Amendment here, Jason. Uh Trump had an exchange with a reporter yesterday where he said, "You can't have guns. You can't walk in with guns."

Reporter says, "What about the Second Amendment?" He he repeats, "You can't walk in with guns." This has been repeated many times. Um, this is a clip from, you know, way back in 2025. Jason, 2025. This is him talking about the DC concealed carry law.

Question is on crime prevention. Would you be open to expanding the national concealed carry to apply to DC like it does in other states like Texas?

Yeah. Well, they have it in some states and they feel strongly about it. I, you know, as you know, I'm in favor of it. Um, people have to protect themsel. I'm a Second Amendment person. Very simply, people have to be able to protect themselves.

And just as a reminder, this is him on January 6. I don't effing care that they have weapons. Uh, he says they're not here to hurt me. Taking the effing mags, meaning the magnetometers, away. And so, this is this is not your second amendment, Jason. It's not my second amendment, listener. It's not your second amendment. This is a second amendment only for people with political beliefs that they like.

If you are listening to this and you know somebody who is a big second amendment person like they have t-shirts that say shall not infringe their laptop sticker says will not comply that that sort of thing. You got to make sure they understand that this is kind of their moment not to brandish their weapon but to get involved in the thing that they've been talking about as a big part of their personality for years. Like if you if you're that kind of person, you've been telling your friends for years that the reason that you have guns is because one day there might be a tyrannical government that will disarm people and then execute them or, you know, not allow people to exercise their first amendment rights. And look around.

This is happening. So, you need to tell your friends who are big Second Amendment people but have not but have also been big Trump folks that if they want to be proven right to you and all the other friends who have been acting like they've been nuts for years that there's a peaceful political movement that they might want to join.

Yeah. And you know, I could read all the clips, but a lot of these gun rights groups have come out um against Trump on this. Even Dana Lo, who I think used to be at the NRA, is you some of this is we could parse that language like like it's clearly not as strident as they would be if this were under a Democratic president, but it's not nothing. Uh but we have so much more to talk about. Jason, we're going to take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk about um the pressure on Trump to uh fire people like Stephen Miller, Kirsty Nome, uh his moves on Bo. Um, we've got a lot of clips of the ICE agents in the field.

Uh, we'll talk about that obviously with a real expert. And so, we got a lot more to to do here. And we'll be back after this break. ED is more common than you think and simpler to treat than ever. Through HIMS, you can connect online with a licensed provider to access personalized treatment options discreetly and on your own terms. Through HIMS, you can access personalized prescription treatment options for ED if prescribed. HIMS offers access to ED treatment options ranging from personalized products to trusted generics that cost 95% less than brand names if prescribed. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself. Hims brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personalized treatments that put your goals first. This isn't oneizefits-all care that forgets you in the waiting room. It's your health and goals put first with real medical providers making

sure you get what you need to get results. Think of HIMS as your digital front door that gets you back to your old self with simple 100% online access to trusted treatments for ED and more all in one place. To get simple online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more, visit hymns.com/majority. That's hymns.com/majority for your free online visit. Hims.com/majority. Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. see website for details, restrictions, and important safety information. Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan.

Resolutions come and go, but growth, real lasting growth, takes time. That's why I love that Neutrifll isn't promising a miracle in 30 days. They're here to help you grow your hair and confidence from within one day at a time. Neutrifll is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. Trusted by over 1 and a2 million people, Neutrifll has multiple formulations designed to target the many root causes of thinning like stress and hormones as they evolve throughout different life stages and lifestyles such as from postchild birth to menopause, giving your body what it needs to grow. Neutrifull supplements are peer-reviewed, NSF content certified and clinically tested to measure results and growth quality and strength, helping you reach your hair goals with confidence. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just 3 to 6 months with Neutrifll.

For a limited time, Neutrifll is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to neutrfull.com and enter the promo code majority. Find out why Neutrifll is the bestselling hair growth supplement brand at neutrfull.com spelled nutrfol.com promo code majority. That's neutrfull.com promo code majority. Well, I there have been a parade of senators who have taken a step in the right direction here. Like I I I refuse to lower my standards, but we we'll take these one at a time. Here's Senator Tillis, who I think we talked about last week

to then think that we can move on before this has been adjudicated. Senator, do you have confidence in Secretary now?

None at all. No, she's um I' I've tried to maintain confidence. Look, I've done a and we'll be sharing this information. We've done a uh a Trump one, Trump 2 comparison of disaster relief. Uh there's no comparison whatsoever. Trump one was right on with disaster recovery. You think about Matthew and Florence and and this one, she she's not even handling the other part of her job. I mean, at one point she thought FEMA should be eliminated. To give you an idea of how incompetent I think she is, she actually thought FEMA should be eliminated. And when she had a FEMA director said he didn't think that was a good idea, she fired him within 24 hours. Now she understands that that is a important part of her job. These are like amateurish assistant manager sort of thought processes going into somebody who's a secretary in a cabinet level position. It's unacceptable.

Does she need to step down? Does she need to Stephen Miller is in the same boat. this guy after doing the stupid comments he made about Greenland getting the president in a difficult circumstance is one of the people that came out publicly and said that this guy was a terrorist before he had even talked with anybody on the ground and that's clearly not the case now. So I mean it's just I mean Steven Miller never fails to live up to my expectations of incompetence

be fired. I uh you know I'm going to leave that up to the president. I can tell you if I were president neither one of them would be in Washington right now. But do you think you think Gnome should step down?

I think Nome needs to decide what uh I mean I I think if Nome looks at her body of work, I I could not be if I were in her position. I can't think of any point of pride over the last year. She's got to make her own decision or the president does. But she has taken this administration into the ground on an issue that we should own. We should own the issue of border security and immigration, but they have destroyed that for Republicans. Something that got the president elected, they have destroyed it through their incompetence.

Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Senator. Have a good evening. I mean, I'll give you I'll give you one guess whether that fell is running for re-election.

Yeah. Well, you know, Marowski, to her credit, did call on Gnome to step down. And I mean, we could parse, you know, this language. I mean, there's been a parade of interesting statements from both political and non-political actors.

The poor president is advised by all these stupid people. Yeah. Or my personal favorite is the Open AI CEO Sam Alman who uh issues a statement saying that he he has lines and you know like even he has to speak out when you know justice calls for it and then he he inserts a line into the statement like our very strong President Trump uh like it's like this almost dear leader comment and then he goes he devotes almost as much space to how he refuses to be reactionary and bow to pressure from the mob whether it's the liberals or the right and I'm like what is this statement like here's what I'll say about Tillis and Alman I mean I made fun of Tillis but let's be fair like if you're actually trying to persuade Trump of something the reality is like you and I will never persuade Donald Trump of anything

no and if you're act and so the reality is like what what I'm sure Tillis and what I'm sure Sam would what I'm sure Alman would say if they were here is I'm actually trying to get the guy to do something And you can't get Donald Trump to do anything unless you first spend five minutes blowing smoke up his ass. That is not untrue, you know. So I we should I at least Tillis for sure we should I should give more credit to.

Yeah, I think I mean I Alman I that read to me as like a cover your eyesman. My employees are mad at me. That's what I that's how I read that is like I think people were finally pissed at him. Now, uh, the question of Stephen Miller's future, uh, has been raised, and it's interesting to say like, is he going to survive this? I think he's going to survive, and I and Senator Lindsey Graham agrees, too. This is what he had to say about all of this.

Maybe. No. Okay. As to Steven Miller, to my colleagues who believe that you can convince Donald Trump that Steven Miller is a liability for him, good luck with that. when this uh clock strikes 12 on the Trump era, there'll be a few people walking out the door with Donald Trump. Steven Miller will be in that group. So, I want everybody to know on the Republican side that Steven Miller is not the problem. Sanctuary Cities is the problem.

There's so much going on there, right? I mean, that's like he probably isn't wrong. Uh and and and he he probably understands. I mean, what's mostly going on there is he's like, "Look, you may think like you, the rest of you may think that you're saving face by attacking Miller and not Trump and you're going to make yourself okay, but Lindsey Graham is like, but I want you, Stephen Miller, to know that I, Lindsey Graham, understand that you are probably not leaving and that you're the one who pretty much points Trump at the people that you have the power to be like, get him. You know, that guy said bad things about you." And that's Lindsey Graham being like, "Hey, uh, it was Stephen, it was him, you know, it was the other guy."

Well, I Garcia, who is the co-founder of Latinas for Trump, said, "I do think that he will lose the midterms because of Steven Miller." Speaking about Trump losing the midterms. Uh, you know, I think I think Graeme is right. I think Miller is there till the lights go out. But um Bovino seems to be uh somewhere under a bus uh out in the outskirts of Minnesota because Trump basically threw him under the bus. He he he look look the things that should happen to this guy are not in the cards yet. But

this is what Trump had to say about Bovino. Now the the message is out that Tom Hman is in.

Yeah. Uh Commander Bo is supposedly leaving Minneapolis along with some CBP agency. Is this a pullback? I don't think it's a pullback. It's a little bit of a change. Everybody in this room that has a business, you know, you make little changes, you know, Bavino is very good, but he's a pretty out there kind of a guy. And in some cases, that's good. Maybe it wasn't good here.

Well, uh, yeah, he is a pretty out there kind of a guy. Um, you know, I saw um Keith Ellison did an interview where he made a great point which is like this is the largest deployment of border patroller ICE anywhere ever and it's not a border state. It's not even a state with a with a subst like a statistically significant immigrant population. It's just retribution. So, I'm not surprised that Trump is now eager to throw uh what was the name of the guy who George W. Bush put in charge of um like right right away when they were taking over Iraq. Uh

oh. Paul Bremer. Paul Bremer. Yeah. Bremer. You know, and then there was another guy who like he put in charge of FEMA dur you're in New Orleans now. Yeah. The guy who like had been a he had raised horses or something, you know. I don't know what Bevino's background is, but he's basically playing that role here. He's like, we screwed everything up, so we'll just be like, it was this guy that was the problem. Um, anyway,

I I am struck by, okay, there's part of my brain that's like, okay, immediate deescalation of everything is important for the city and for safety and all that. And then there's another part of me that is like the we cannot lower our expectations here or our guard,

right? Because first of all, the guy who's coming in has been credibly accused of taking a $50,000 bribe and somehow he's the adult in the room now. Like this is the guy that we're that he was

also that guy who's coming in has been a major like I think is he on the board or he stands to make a lot of money from the private prison companies that whose stock went way up as a result of all the new detainees by ICE. So yeah, there's

still problems. They're still blocking the local investigation. They're still not releasing information about these guys. They're still not having a thorough uh investigation of this. All the people who lied pretty much. I mean, Bovino still has a job and the other people still have the other jobs that they had. So, there's still impunity. So, like it's not like everybody's like Trump retreated or, you know, there's also reporting that's like, you know, Trump is like finally seeing his way. It's like this is a to say this is the bare minimum would be charitable. Like this is we haven't even met the bare minimum of what should be required here.

It's not even close. So yes, it is good that this guy Boino is gone. It is good that Trump seems to be somewhat taking a step back, but we have a laundry list of basic things that we need to happen coming out of this and we haven't even checked one of them off the list in my opinion. Like we aren't even close to that yet. Uh so um there have been a lot of clips circulating about ICE. I've watched a ton of them. I'm sure you've watched a ton of them too. listeners, I imagine you've been trading these. I'm going to play this clip, Jason, because this this has CNN's vetting on it, so at least I could say like sometimes these things could be taken out of context or something, and this at least has undergone their

factchecking, and there's some commentary sprinkled in between, but I think this does a good job of summarizing where we are. And for listeners, we'll do we'll we'll narrate afterwards uh what you might miss from the context. Hey,

what the what the is wrong? This is an ice agent pushing somebody to the ground in the snow.

Another ICE agent going up to somebody from the side and pushing them out of the snow.

Was it appropriate for the ice agent to push that gentleman onto the ground in the middle of the street into oncoming coming traffic? I mean, you you see a city bus, it has to come to a very quick stop to avoid running the man over. DHS did not request did not respond to CN's request for comment on that incident. Then then there's this clip from St. Louis Park, Minnesota. That's a suburb just west of Minneapolis where a driver says uh they began recording after witnessing a car crash between an ICE vehicle and another car.

Shame on you. Listen, have y'all not learned from the past couple of days? Have you not learned?

Learned what? What's our lesson here? What do you want us to learn? Following federal intents.

Give me my phone. Following Shame on you. DHS tells CNN that they told the woman multiple times to move her car and that she could film across the street. That ICE agents strong objection, let's call it, to being filmed is is something we've seen in several other videos, including this one from Portland, Maine. That's the latest state to receive this ICE enforcement surge.

It's not illegal to record. Exactly. Yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah. Why are you taking my information down?

Cuz we have a nice little database. Oh, good. And now you're considered a domestic terrorist. So,

we're videotaping you. Are you crazy? You know, I'm watching all these like that guy who is wearing a mask so you can't know who he is. And I'm just thinking about how, you know, we never wore masks overseas, but to be fair, like we were going to retreat, you know, after operations, most of us were going to go back inside our our bases and stuff, and we then we were going to go home to another country, but most of our translators did not cover their faces. And they all lived like they didn't live on post, most of them

in Afghanistan. So the whole like they have to cover their faces or they'll be at risk. Like

they're not going to be at risk of physical harm anymore than any other law enforcement officer. They're just going to be embarrassed and ashamed.

We've talked a lot about the face coverings. It's like there's so much more going on here, too. It's like this one guy is like, "You're on a list. You're a domestic terrorist. I'm take he's take for folks who just listening, he's taking a photo of her license plate." Uh the other video I think is the most illustrative. He's like, "Have you not learned your lesson?" And again like I am blown away by the discipline and the savvy of these people. Um the uh the woman is like what lesson do you want me to learn? Such a great followup question like come on say more.

Yeah I I I'm blown away by these people and I can't remember if I said this last week but I um you know longtime listeners will know I always like to make fun of the hypothetical purple purple-haired Oberlin grad, but you know shout out to the purplehaired Oberllin grads. They've been out there in the streets and they've been savvy out there. The people, you know, this can't just be an effort uh by the hardcore activists and they've been leading the way, you know, um and and there have been there's been such discipline here.

Like inevitably whenever there's going to be a ton of people on the streets, there's going to be some stuff that um that is messy and probably undisiplined, but I've seen so little of that. Uh, I've seen so much discipline, so much savvy, uh, and so much courage, you know, for a lot of these people go out there knowing that, uh, these ICE agents are going to push them to the ground, that they could be in, um, in front of a gun, they could get shot, uh, and that they continue to do it, uh, I think is is incredibly admirable. It's also you've got you've got folks constantly saying and we're going to talk to Javad in a minute about this, but you've got all these folks saying, "Well, you know, Obama and Biden and all of them, they deported a lot of people and nobody was out there disrupting ISIS operations and having organized signal chats to let people know where ICE is and stopped them." And you know what? There's a

pretty big difference. One, they were giving people due process. Two, they were deporting criminals. And the the only the reason that people are interested in trying to make it harder for ICE to do I'm not even going to say their job. I will just say do what it is they're doing because I don't think they're doing their job. I think they're doing well beyond that is because they are, as the folks in Minneapolis keep saying, trying to deport their friends and neighbors. Not criminals, not people they want out of their community, just, you know, kids and adults and people who are just, you know, basically Americans.

And you know, if you don't do that, nobody's going to disrupt your activities. Well, you know, you talked about that. The Wall Street Journal reported on the Kato Institute report. Kato Institute is a libertarian think tank, usually associated with the right, but I know they would they would say and have earned the ability to be more nuanced about that. They they're very good about sticking to the libertarian line. They did it on tariffs. They've certainly done it here on immigration. um they issued a report that kind of I think is a follow on to what we talked about last week which is like what's going on here?

Who are these people that uh the Trump administration has been arresting through ICE and I'm just going to read extensively from this and then we'll take a break and hear from our expert but um this is what they said. Mr. Trump campaigned on a promise to deport criminal migrants the worst of the worst as the Department of Homeland Security put it. That policy has public support but the migrant roundup has has been become far broader. Last week, Homeland Security Secretary Gnome posted on social media have arrested over 10,000 criminal illegal aliens who are killing Americans, hurting children, and reigning terror in Minneapolis. Overall, Miss Gnome says Immigration and Customs has removed murderers, pedophiles, rapist, gang members, and terrorists.

She told CBS that 70% of them committed or have charges against them on violent crimes. It started out that way. At the beginning of 2025, 87% of ICE arrests were immigrants with either a prior conviction or a criminal charge pending. According to ICE data obtained by the deportation data project, only 30% of those arrested at the beginning of 2025 didn't have either a criminal conction, conviction, or pending charge. But the criminal share of apprehensions has declined as the months have gone by. By October 2025, the percentage of arrested immigrants with a prior conviction or criminal charge had fallen to 55% since October 73% taken into ICE custody have no criminal conviction and only 5% had a violent criminal conviction according to the KO Institute Review of ICE data. So, it's getting worse and worse and worse, Jason, as they triple the amount of ICE agents, which is about to happen, and uh

they they try to hit this 1 million deportation goal they have, and they only got to only quote unquote and air quotes got to 400,000 last year.

So, when for before we go to the break, for those folks at home, I mean, the purpose of this podcast is to equip you with things you can say to people you're trying to persuade in your life. It's when people bring up, you know, Obama deported this many, Biden deported this many. It's it's a really easy to tell the story of what happened here, which is when they started, ICE was doing pretty typically what had been done in prior administrations. And then somebody probably Stephen Miller and Trump and Christine Nome and others realized that they had a political problem which is they had on the campaign trail thrown out really big numbers and that they and we know this they were saying publicly they needed to up the numbers and that's where you get to why is it that you you didn't protest Obama and you do protest this because the reason Obama's numbers were high but nowhere near as high as

the numbers that you're putting up now is because Obama was actually doing what Trump said he was going to do, which is he was actually only deporting the worst of the worst. He was actually deporting the people who were criminals, who were making the country less safe. And you know what? There's not that damned many of those people. The vast majority of people who are here undocumented are actually making America a better, safer place. And they had to cut into that bone. They had to cut deep into the meat of people who are actually making this place better in order to reach these political numbers and that's how we got to where we are.

Well, we're going to take a break and when we come back we're going to hear from Javad uh you know somebody who has a lot of experience in this area can help shed some light for us. We'll be right back.

Have you ever fallen in love with a couch, lamp or rug online and then your soul leaves your body when you see the price tag? Well, I'm going to let you in on a secret called dupe.com. It's ridiculously easy to use. All you have to do is go to dupe.com and paste any product URL or upload a photo and it instantly shows you similar and more affordable alternatives. These aren't sketchy knockoffs either. Here's the thing most people don't realize. Most furniture sold online is mass-produced in the exact same factories. Those factories then sell the brands under different names who then list them for different prices. dupe.com automatically lists these less expensive alternatives for you, so you're not overpaying just for some brand name. Dupe is one of the most viral shopping hacks on Tik Tok.

Millions of people have already used Dupe to save money. And it's 100% free to use. That $5,000 cloud sofa you don't think you can justify, the beautiful mid-century dresser you've had bookmarked forever. Dupe will find a similar item, sometimes even the same item, for 60, 70, even 80% off. With dupe.com, you can finally decorate the house of your dreams without going broke. Dupe.com isn't just about furniture either. Dupe works for fashion, shoes, jewelry, and more. Using dupe.com is insanely simple. Just go to dupe.com and paste any product URL or even upload a photo and it'll instantly show you similar items for way less. There's also an app and a browser extension if you want to make it even easier. No account needed, totally free. Start saving money with dupe.com today.

All right. Uh Jason, um so I think a good place for us to to send it to Javad uh is this clip.

Well, before you do that, let me let me introduce him. Go for it. Okay. So, uh welcome back, Javad. Javad Kazawi is the co-founder of Kazawi Worsh. Uh is a St. Louis based law firm that focuses on civil rights, immigration, and litigation. Soon after the September 11th attacks, Javad joined the Department of Justice where he worked with the Joint Terrorism Task Force. And for nearly a decade, he was assigned to the G DOJ and then the ICE national security law division. His expertise was using immigration laws to prosecute terrorists, terrorist financers and aliens engaged in espionage and other criminal acts and as such he has advised ICE on how to execute their operations while complying with the law. This was under the I think Bush and Obama administrations. So Javad, thanks for for coming back.

Thanks for having me again. Well, uh, yeah, Jason, we have this this clip, uh, and Jeremy hopefully found at the of this older couple, retired couple just describing their interactions with ICE officials in Minnesota.

ICE agents who had the audacity to come and try to arrest and kidnap people leaving church on a Sunday morning. We turned into a parking lot and were greeted by approximately four unmarked ICE vehicles with uh agents who immediately stopped us and pointed semi-automatic weapons uh in our face, asked us to roll down the windows, threatened us multiple times with arrest. I mentioned to them or I asked them if I they had a warrant for my arrest. They said we don't need one. And they continued to threaten us multiple times, pointing guns at my wife and I's face.

And we were kind of trapped because we had come in and they jump, you know, they came toward us right away with their guns.

And so the only way out was really to back up, too. Um Jan was Jan was very nervous.

I was scared. I've never had I've never had two guns. I've never had I've never had a gun pointed at me before in my life.

And uh to think that these individuals represent our government, our government.

And here I am, a retire, we're a retired couple. And this is terrorism. Wow. They took pictures of my car and my license. It's a personalized license that I made in memory of my grandchildren. And they mocked it. They were asser. They were obviously not trained at all. I' I I've known many

police officers in my life. These people were right off the streets. They just had collected their $50,000.

No level of professionalism. Zero. They they had the professional demeanor of of of criminals rights.

The Miranda rightites. None. No, nothing. Just unprofessional. They they they were like the insurrectionists you saw pictures of at the capital. And here they're terrorizing an American retired couple.

It's unbelievable. It makes me ashamed. Uh, so Jabad, was this pretty much the way things worked when you were over there? Anything changed?

I mean, it's pretty it's pretty much the way things worked when my mom left Iran, but not here.

Yeah. Yeah. uh tell us a little bit about, you know, your dealings with with ICE, working with them on actually how to conduct themselves, uh you know, and like what is standing out to you about a clip like that or about the stuff that you're seeing?

Well, the first thing that stands out to me is that most of these agencies had inspector generals and offices of ombbudsmen where people could file complaints and those complaints were taken seriously. these officers were to be investigated, disciplined. But one of the first things that President Trump did in uh his second term is he got rid of them. The Inspector General's offices have been decimated, if not totally um abolished. The DHS Office of Civil Rights, which President Obama put in specifically to address these types of concerns, has been totally cut down. Um, it's one of the biggest things that the vote on Friday about what happens with the DHS bill would permanently shut down those offices. So, there's just no way to investigate these people anymore. They know they can get away with this type of stuff. For context, for people who aren't really familiar with the concept of an inspector general, um it's

basically if you were to just say that your local police force does not feel that they uh need an internal affairs division anymore, and would that make you feel more safe or less safe? And and that's pretty much what they've done across government is like, we don't really actually need to ever investigate complaints anymore. Yeah, just trust us and we promise that we'll do it right. Even then when they go out and like Bo, what I think really got Bo in trouble is he went and said the quiet part out loud. We are not going to investigate these guys. You're never going to find out their names and we've already moved them someplace else so that they can terrorize people in other states. The fact that he was dumb enough to say that out loud. Now, I think everybody in the administration knew that was the plan, but he just said it.

Yeah. You know, it's even worse because on top of the the the lack of any uh attempt at investigation obviously is the pardon power hanging over it, but even worse than that is uh the guy who killed uh good uh apparently is getting rich off of it. People like Bill Aman have raised money for these people. So you add all the impunity together with the fact that uh some of these people are getting enriched from this process. It is truly a horrifying combination of circumstances. Javad, how talk to us a little bit about your experience with because you were clearly advising ICE on how to handle this kind of thing like actual tactics tactics for deescalation, you know, tactics for providing due like I guess providing due process is not a tactical question, but can you speak at all to like what the tactical training or deescalation training or that sort of thing was like during those years?

Well, we have to take a step back and talk about who's on the streets. A lot of these people are Customs and Border Protection officers who mostly what they do is check your passport when you come back from Cancun. These people have never received any type of training when it comes to dealing with people in civilian urban areas. There's a few smaller number who are in border patrol who deal with arresting people as they cross the border, but they've never been given any training in this type of stuff. When you look at ICE, tons of the people who are out on the street are brand new hires. Um, they would all be trained at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. I used to go down there and train people on the law. We never trained anybody on this because it's not a part of the job. Now, I'm also a civil rights attorney and we opened our law firm four months before Michael Brown was killed in St. Louis when all of the

protests happened there. And it took two or three years for the police departments there to finally train up people. They call them civilian disobedience teams, but those are specially trained people. I know of nobody within DHS that has ever received that kind of training. So, I never advise somebody because this is not a part of the job. Yeah, that's a great point. It also one of the things I've noticed is when they actually I mean look, they are trying to restrain people like way too often. They're restraining people that don't need restraining. But as I've watched when they go to restrain people, they're clearly like it does not look like they've had training in how to do it at all, which is why you have swarms of seven, eight people doing it.

It it it seems to me like that is also part of the problem. You know, we like in the military uh in in the army, we had what we called combives. We had hand-tohand combat training and and and we were taught in, you know, not like extensive training, but there was some training. And I'm sure if you were like military police, you would get a ton more on how to actually restrain people in a way that is safe that like very rarely were we taught to actually punch people. You know, if someone was that there were times when you would have to do that potentially, but most of what we were taught were holds and restrain, you know, ways that were basically grappling. And then I think back to, you know, my dad was a police officer. And I remember being a kid and as I got bigger like you know you wrestle with your dad and my dad always had all of these moves all of these like pressure points he knew and different things to restrain

you without injuring you and because he had done it a lot as a cop and that is one thing that strikes me is I don't see I don't see these ICE officers one they shouldn't be restraining these people but I don't see them doing it in a way that looks like they've had any training in how to do it.

No it's a clown show. I mean, every video that I see, you see them doing things that a beat police officer in a big city would never do. Um, even when you start looking at their use of chemical munitions, I mean, you saw the video of Bavino trying to pull out the smoke grenade. He couldn't figure out how to get the pin out of it and then he immediately threw it into the wind where it blew back on him. He didn't have any training. The one of the most chilling pictures that I've seen is the woman I think it's a woman but there's a person a citizen who is on the ground three people on top of the person and then you see an officer go right up to their face with a canister of tear gas not tear gas of um pepper spray and it's one of the big ones that is meant for mass deployment of getting rid of a hundred people and taking it about three inches from the person's face and firing ing it there. I mean, that is

easily unconstitutional. That's excessive force. There's no reason to do that. But also, you're deploying that six inches away from the face of another person there. And I also want to be clear, I like to use the term officer. Everybody likes to use this word agent. Now, there are agents within DHS. There are 1811 specifically trained HSI, Homeland Security agents. That's not who's out on the streets right now. These are officers. Most of them are detention officers. They don't have this type of training at all.

What What is an agent's training like and what is the difference? So, within ICE, you have 1811s is the code. Every job has a code. And 1801's 1801's are officers. They're enforcement and removal. They're the people who detain people. That's the majority of the people out on the street. You do have some 1811s who are more like detectives, FBI special agents, people who I've worked with on terrorism investigations on massive drug operations. These are the much more um I don't want to say smarter, but the much more advanced people and they have a lot more training and stuff. Now, they don't they're not necessarily trained in this, but they're tend to be the much more advanced um receive a lot more training when it comes to law enforcement techniques. But that goes to another thing. We're taking those officers off the streets from doing sex trafficking, from doing terrorism investigations,

from doing all of this stuff. And we're doing it with other agencies just so we can go grab people who have not broken any criminal law laws and just to get a statistic. Um I have a case with a man from Colombia who had a pending asylum case. He was checking in all the time. He was married to a US citizen, had broken no criminal laws, nothing. One day he's driving down the street in St. Louis, two black SUVs pull him over with his husband, machine guns out. It was an FBI agent, an ATF agent, um I believe a local police officer and three ICE agents. All of them taken off the streets from doing, you know, major gang investigations and drug running because they needed to get one other guy who was complying with everything.

Does he is he was he a like a risk of violence? Was he a like he that's that I mean this kid this kid weighed 120 pounds.

I mean did he have like some criminal record or something? Nope. He had crossed the border immediately presented himself to Customs and Border Protection asked for asylum was processed. Background checks were done to him. He was released. He had a hearing scheduled for a year and a half from now. He was checking in every single month as he was told to at the ICE office. If they wanted him, they could have picked, but they waited. They staked out his building. You know, he lived in one of the skyrises right next to Bush Stadium. And as they're pulling down the street, all of a sudden surrounded by two black SUVs with machine guns. So that which goes to my question of in in normal times, in normal ICE operations, are these guys rolling in like they're dressed like Seal Team Six or is it what I my guess is that it's probably now in a case where you're actually detaining somebody who need who should be detained. Is it

more more often like you just walk up and say, "I'm this person. I'm going to need you to come in." like what does it actually look like?

So remember the the great majority of people who are detained are people who are told to come into the office, they check in and then they're detained right there. Or they're people who are stopped by a police department and when they're put into the criminal system, they after they're convicted, you know, we actually have immigration courts in major jails all across America and these people are processed. This was when you were talking earlier about Obama. The biggest thing that Obama did was the institutional hearing program where three to four months before somebody who was convicted of a violent crime was done with their sentence, they had their whole immigration case done. So at the moment that they were finished, they could be immediately deported because they were not eligible to stay here because they committed violent crimes.

Um that's actually what my wife did in Chicago. she was a criminal detained prosecutor for ICE. Um that's where most of the detentions happen. There are smaller cases where there's somebody obviously there are um people who are threats and those were very specific operations planned out where a team would go in grab the person and come out. That's not what's happening here. Um, one of the things that actually I've heard has very much annoyed the Supreme Court is that there's a new term called a Kavanaaugh stop. You know, we all of us who went to law school know about um Brady violations and different types of of stop. But the Kavanaaugh stop is because the Supreme Court for the first time ever ruled in a case called Prada v. Gnome that the government can stop you because you look foreign. That's it.

That's all the probable cause that they need. And now they've taken it to the next step. Well, now we can stop you because you look like you protect foreign people. Now we can stop you because you look like you might stand up to foreign people.

That's where we are now. Yeah. It's like it's it's okay. You're foreign. You're protecting the foreign person. And then Prey was protecting the person protecting the foreign person. I mean, at what point does this does like it's a neverending justification? or now you're in a city where there was a person who was protecting a person who was protecting that. So everybody in the city and and then because your city is in there now everybody in the state.

So your your point about most of these folks actually were trained as detention officers what I'm hearing you say is that ICE operations in normal times are not you know like like the fugitive or US Marshalss the movie there. It's not a bunch of folks whose job it is like, "Oh, we located the escape convict. Let's go take down the house." That's not what they do. What they do is the person gets arrested by traditional law enforcement while doing crime and then at some point is transferred, tell me if I got this right, is transferred over to ICE. And that's what ICE officers were doing is accepting the transfer basically like Department of Corrections guards.

Jason, I want to Oh, sorry. I want to just inter interject to be like this would be the fugitive if Tommy Lee Jones sprayed the crowd at the St. Patrick's Day parade in an attempt to try to get Harrison Ford, you know, like right with both.

And actually, the majority of people who are detained are just people who have a monthly check-in. You know, you go, you do your case. When your case is going on, you have to check in every month or something. you lose your case, you then file your appeal. When your appeal is done, most of these people check in and when they check in, they tell them, "Okay, next month you got to come back and you got to go." And then they go and they know where that person is and they just go to their house and get them. They're the

So, it's pretty rare that they have to go find them, get, you know, all that kind of stuff. They

look, let's be clear, it does happen. There are some people who are and they abscond

major threats. Yeah. You know, that's what I did. But the idea that you don't have but those are specialized teams. Those are teams that have ops plans. I mean, I got to imagine it's the same thing as what you did in Afghanistan. There's a bad guy. Let's get everybody together. Let's come up with a plan and let's go get him. As opposed to let's just send everybody out to the street with a machine gun and you get to decide who's Osama bin Laden. And that's what they're doing now. Yeah. Well, thank you for shedding light on all of this.

Can I throw one more thing out here though that makes me just super angry? One more.

Every time you hear somebody say President Bush goes on, not President Trump goes on TV and says, "Well, we should trust Tom Holman because Tom Hman got an award from President Obama." Tom Hman got an award with like 12 other people on a big operation that's called the President's Award. I got like two of those. Okay. I've never met the president of the United States giving me one of these awards. You know, it's like you because I've seen the way you're obsessive about sports. You probably got some presidential fitness award when you were like

that's what he got. He was not picked out individually by Barack Obama to say you're the best officer. He was on a good operation, a me member of a team

and that's what it was. So that just makes me lose my mind. He got he got an Emmy for ensemble writing.

Yes. And which is still an Emmy, but in this case he didn't get that. He got you're like he got like they did a good job. And I mean I think you made a good point. You're like I never met Obama and I got two of those.

Yeah. All right. Uh thank you very much. I appreciate Javad. Always good to talk to you man.

Love being on. Thanks. All right. Uh okay, Robbie, we we went long today. Uh, so I think we're just gonna get out. Is that cool?

No, it's all good, man. Yeah. All right. Okay. Uh, thanks everybody. Uh, thank you to Javad Kazali um for joining us. Uh, thank you to everybody for listening. Um, you can always find me at Jason Cander on everything. You can find Ravi at Ravi Gupta. Uh, thank you to And if you're want to look up Javad, Javad's law firm in St. Louis is Javad, sorry, is Kazali Worsh. Uh Javad actually I think was named like top lawyer or everybody's favorite lawyer in St. Louis a couple of years ago. Um so definitely uh look into Javad if you're interested. Thank you to the mightest mighty. Remember we all have a platform.

Make sure to use yours today.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "LIVE: Trump LOSES CONTROL as BACKLASH GROWS"?

Jason Kander (Host), Ravi Gupta (Host), Javad Kazawi (Guest).

What is "LIVE: Trump LOSES CONTROL as BACKLASH GROWS" about?

The discussion focuses on the recent backlash against Trump's administration following the controversial shooting of Alex Freddy in Minneapolis, highlighting how this incident threatens his credibility as public sentiment shifts. Additionally, the conversation delves into the ongoing debate about immigration policies, featuring insights from a former ICE official to clarify misconceptions about…

What is mentioned in this MeidasTouch episode?

16 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Alex Freddy, Steven Miller, ICE, Kirsty Nome, Majority 54, Department of Homeland Security. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "LIVE: Trump LOSES CONTROL as BACKLASH GROWS"?

The episode runs 1 h 2 min; the transcript is about 11,496 words in 134 timestamped sections.

More from MeidasTouch

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 28, 2026.