Trump PANICS as DEPOSITION HE FEARED is FINALLY ORDERED!!

What this episode is about

A federal judge has ordered depositions for Donald Trump and Elon Musk, despite Musk's claims of protection as a high-ranking government official, with the judge expressing skepticism about Musk's status. The ruling suggests that even high-ranking officials may not be exempt from deposition under certain circumstances, highlighting the legal complexities surrounding the apex doctrine in deposition cases.

Key takeaways

• In a twist of fate, Musk's 'high-ranking' status crumbles under judicial scrutiny—who knew Doge had legal bite?
• The apex doctrine flops as the judge says, 'Musk ain't no government official,' sending shockwaves through power circles.
• Surprisingly, despite claims of efficiency, Musk's tenure led to growing deficits—not quite the 'Doge checks' promised to Americans.
• Musk's upcoming deposition could shine a light on government operations—who knew he held the keys to USAID's shutdown?
• As Musk faces the law, the saga of tech tycoons mingling with politics raises eyebrows—when does innovation become interference?

Who speaks in this episode?

• Ben (Guest) · 11 min speaking
• Harry Litman (Guest) · 5 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Elon Musk, Donald Trump, Cẩm Thành Chung
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Elon Musk, Doge, Donald Trump, USAID
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Elon Musk, Doge, Donald Trump, Harry Litman
4. 9:00 – 12:00: Elon Musk
5. 12:00 – 15:00: Elon Musk, Donald Trump
6. 15:00 – 15:46: Harry Litman, Talking Feds

Notable quotes from "Trump PANICS as DEPOSITION HE FEARED is FINALLY ORDERED!!"

• At least among others on that top tier of depositions that Trump did not want to take place. Elon Musk is now going to be deposed in connection to what Doge did and its destruction of government agencies and departments, specifically USAID.

  about Elon Musk · at 0:07

• The court directed defendants to submit documentary evidence of certain specific actions relating to the shutdown of USID, which presumably would have identified the date of…

  about USAID · at 3:40

• First step in a reckoning as he goes under oath. And why the hell shouldn't he go under oath? Congress never called him to testify because it's controlled by MAGA. How pathetic. And now they're fighting so he doesn't get deposed.

  about Donald Trump · at 7:26

• Agree. Everybody subscribe to Harry Litman's YouTube channel. Talking feds it's called. So search talking feds.

  about Talking Feds · at 15:08

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Elon Musk — Person · Primary referenced subject (deponent/defendant) · 10 mentions · first at 0:12
  Central figure in the court-ordered deposition about actions attributed to 'Doge' and the dismantling of USAID; discussed as potentially not a protected high-ranking official and as uniquely possessing key factual knowledge.
• Donald Trump — Person · Primary referenced political actor (President; linked decision-maker) · 5 mentions · first at 0:03
  Discussed as tied to the actions and authority surrounding 'Doge' and USAID; portrayed as politically and legally exposed by Musk’s deposition and as having identified Musk as head of a government-efficiency effort.
• Harry Litman — Person · Guest / referenced expert commentator · 3 mentions · first at 5:34
  Brought in to analyze the legal and political implications of the deposition, the apex doctrine framing, and the accountability questions around 'Doge' and executive power.
  Uhuh. Harry, you shouldn't get to go on state regime media and do all of these things and I have to answer for it. This is we the people.
• Cẩm Thành Chung — Person · Referenced decision-maker (federal judge issuing order) · 1 mention · first at 0:27
  Identified as the judge in Maryland who denied a protective order and allowed Musk’s deposition to proceed, questioning whether Musk qualifies as a high-ranking government official under the apex doctrine.
  And a judge in Maryland named Judge Chung made the ruling. The judge doubted the protections for highranking government officials, which is what Elon Musk asserted because, as the judge.

Companies & orgs

• USAID — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 3:45
  USAID is a key entity in the discussion about its shutdown and the legal implications involving Elon Musk and Donald Trump.

Concepts & topics

• Doge — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 5:52
  Doge is central to the discussion about its role in the destruction of government agencies and the legal deposition of Elon Musk.
  At least among others on that top tier of depositions that Trump did not want to take place. Elon Musk is now going to be deposed in connection to what Doge did and its destruction of government agencies and departments, specifically USAID.

Media & podcasts

• Talking Feds — Media · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at 5:34
  Talking Feds is mentioned as a source of expert opinion on the legal and political implications of the case involving USAID and Doge.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 A federal judge has ordered a deposition that Donald Trump has feared the most or at least among others on that top tier of depositions that Trump did not want to take place. Elon Musk is now going to be deposed in connection to what Doge did and its destruction of government agencies and departments, specifically USAID. and a judge in Maryland named Judge Chung made the ruling. The judge doubted the protections for highranking government officials, which is what Elon Musk asserted because, as the judge said, I don't think you're a highranking government official, Elon Musk. What was your position? What were you appointed to? What did you do? And even if you were appointed, how else can we gather this information that seems to be uniquely known only to Elon Musk and Donald Trump? That's something called the apex doctrine, which I'll talk about in a moment. But here's what the federal judge ruled,

1:07 even assuming consistent with the approach taken by certain other circuits that depositions of highranking government officials should be restricted absent extraordinary circumstances regardless of whether they seek testimony on mental processes. The court still finds that the protective order is not warranted. At the outset, it is at best unclear whether Musk, Morocco, and Luen are properly deemed to be high-ranking government officials for purposes of the doctrine. Notably, in cases which courts have barred depositions of cabinet secretaries, depositions of senior Senate confirmed subc cabinet officials have been permitted to proceed. And it cites various precedent like this case over here. Enray US Department of Education barring the deposition of the secretary of education. In a case in which depositions of two under secretaries of educations had proceeded, noting that in the inray department of commerce case,

2:07 the Supreme Court stayed the deposition of the Secretary of Commerce while permitting the depositions of other high-ranking officials including the assistant attorney general. here. USID was not a cabinet level agency. None of the designated officials were the head of that agency and several were operating in an informal or acting role at the time of the relevant events. I'll read for you a little bit more from this order. It says, "In this civil action, plaintiffs are asserting violations of the appointment clause of the United States Constitution and the constitutional principle of the separation of powers arising from decisions and actions taken by defendant Elon Musk and others to shut down and dismantle USAID uh from January 2025 forward after the court ruled on a motion for a preliminary injunction uh and a motion to dismiss the party's commence discovery.

3:05 defendants have now filed a motion for a protective order to preclude the deposition of Musk who at the time of the relevant events uh had been identified by the president of the United States as the head of the United States Department of Government Efficiency. Then it goes on to say, having reviewed the submitted materials, the court finds that no hearing is necessary and for the reasons set forth below, the motion for a protective order is denied. And then it goes on to talk about how significantly in relation to the motion for preliminary injunction, the court directed defendants to submit documentary evidence of certain specific actions relating to the shutdown of USID, which presumably would have identified the date of the action and authorizing official, but defendants failed to provide evidence addressing these issues in relation to certain key decisions, including the decision to

4:00 shut down USAD headquarters and shut down the USAD website. Assuming that defendants complied with the court's order in good faith, they have effectively acknowledged that these orders were given orally with no documentary record such that the only evidence on these questions would be the oral testimony of officials present when the decisions were made. Defendants notably have never in relation to that order or otherwise identified any lower ranking officials who were present when such decisions were made. Accordingly, the court finds that there is no alternative to the proposed deposition of Musk, Morocco and Leuen. So the deposition of Musk goes forward. The court did an analysis that provided first this idea that Musk is not a government official and therefore even applying doctrines that we would potentially apply to high-ranking cabinet officials that would shield their depositions except in exceptional

4:56 circumstances where you climb the ladder and depose all the underlings first and then you can only find out information from what's called the apex person, the top person. That's why you have to make an exceptional showing that only that person holds the knowledge but not a government employee. But then the court says even if government employee I've given Doge and the DOJ and others all the time in the world to provide evidence of anybody else in the universe who can answer these questions. Nobody else is stepping up and saying they can do it. So the only person who's saying it is Musk cuz he said publicly what he did to USID.

5:34 I want to bring in Harry Litman from the Talking Feds YouTube channel, Talking Feds Substack. Harry, it's fairly exceptional that the Trump regime as recently as this past month has still been arguing that Elon Musk was a government employee, that he was effectively a cabinet member of something called Doge. And you remember, Harry, that they promised that as a result of all the work Doge was going to do, we were all going to get a $2,000 Doge check because it was going to save so much money. Instead, nobody got any checks. Federal spending has increased, the debt has grown, the deficit has expanded as a result, and Americans are far worse off. One more point I want to make before I throw it to you, which is USID had previously demonstrated with other statistics before Elon Musk jumped in there that they had saved I don't want to overstate or understate it. I'll just say tens of millions of lives since its

6:38 creation and millions of lives every year of people who would otherwise go hungry, people who would contract HIV and then AIDS. people who would contract other serious illnesses because USAID was the biggest international uh group that would provide these services. Why? Because America was the leader in the world before Donald Trump destroyed that position. and soft power and diplomacy was viewed as uh a the cache, the currency if you will of influence and helping our economy here and doing those things and doing good at the same time through the rest of the world. America's forfeited that position. Millions of people have died and Elon Musk's deposition may be the first step in a reckoning as he goes under oath. And why the hell shouldn't he go under oath? Congress never called him to testify because it's controlled by MAGA. How pathetic. And now they're fighting so he doesn't get deposed.

7:39 Uhuh. Harry, you shouldn't get to go on state regime media and do all of these things and I have to answer for it. This is this is we the people.

7:46 Something called Doge. That's right. So this is the first instance. We've seen it so often since where they've talked out of both sides of their mouths and when it actually comes to a legal setting and having to say things in court, it's oh, we I don't we were just kind of pretending he oh he is, no, he isn't, etc. You know, we've had so many instances where the courts haven't been able to keep up with the uh pace of the administration or they've kept up in in a terrible way by having the um emergency docket and just putting things in place and then they've moved on. But the converse of that, Ben, is the law is it's slower, but the law doesn't go away. So, here we are. It feels like in political terms and just sort of memory of what was uh going on like uh an eon ago but we are very comfortably within the uh kind of time range of actual real redress from the courts. That's the first point. Second point is this is

8:51 dangerous territory for for Trump. uh you you've seen it, you've probably done it in your career, but when you have one of these ninjas of the universe giving testimony, the track record is woeful. I'm thinking now off hand of the way Bill Gates was just completely shredded by department attorney especially therefore David Boy and just pride goeth before the fall and it's true with Trump. They are just terrible witnesses. they're used to doing whatever the hell they want and that's disaster when it comes to a deposition. now third.

9:30 Moreover, the there's there's in in some ways I mean who can figure now the the complicated pretzel relationship between Musk on the one hand and uh Trump on the other but Musk is not going to want to take the fall for all the whole debacle that uh Doge initiated in government. And really we're talking about so much uh you know remember there's just just little kids going in ransacking the place doing as they wanted. It's a story still to be told and if it's told again in legal terms with remedies uh and the like that's going to be you know on Trump as it were for this this whole what was it quasi government thing that was and then you know fourth remember remember um Musk in the uh prancing around in the cabinet and essentially being anointed by Trump as the most important uh person in the whole uh c in the whole cabinet and the whole government really almost a co-president and you know now uh it's a

10:42 it's predictable but um all as it turns out in the aftermath oh no we didn't know anything oh no we didn't who's left Elon Musk maybe the last guy that they want um to testify and as you say in a normal kind of chain of events it'd be so hard to get the top dog in. But first, they won't supply as as so often been the case. They just won't give the evidence or say the dog ate it or it's not around. Well, fine. Here's somebody who can do it. And um a sort of core issue I really the judge just sort of made a provisional ruling, but that's going to be enough for that deposition to go forward. The almost core issue is Fisher foul. what the hell was Doge and just already the provisional holding this wasn't government this was just some you know freelance rich guy uh who turns out to have been maybe very you know rich gen but a crackpot who really didn't know government and got to exercise so much power and there's

11:50 there's accountability that needs to happen and the fact that it was sort of quasi governmental gives a real uh leg up because all these this whole thicket of immunity and uh regulations to get people to come out. It won't apply if the court stays by its holding that Doge whatever it was was you know not a a real part of the executive branch and that itself would be the sort of alderman indictment. So they running around changing the whole government doing what they felt like and they weren't even part of the executive branch. No electoral kind of of check or political kind of accountability.

12:35 That was the first few months of Donald Trump. And I, you know, I'll just end by saying seems a long go to us, but it's not long in legal terms and uh there'll be other things like that, but you know, the the the law grinds slowly, but it grinds fine. And Elon Musk and deposition may be ground up fine himself,

12:57 right? in all of the precedent now being created by Trump and the House Oversight Committee run by MAGA about taking Bill Clinton's deposition uh in connection with the Epstein files and Hillary Clinton's deposition in connection with the Epstein files. Well, that says Democrats take control of the House. It's open season. you know, anybody, any single person will be called and subpoenaed before the House. Good luck. You know, I mean, this is

13:30 just to just to add to that, this is that part. Uh, Ben, uh, truly, it's never happened before. Only one president, former president's ever testified, Harry Truman, who did it willingly. This is such a kind of trashy conduct by the COMR and committee. Hillary Clinton has no business being there. But you're right. If they if they can like throw their weight around this way and and one final point here, why can they throw their weight around this way? Because normally this would be absolutely handled in a negotiation and okay 2 hours under oath or not. But they know the Clintons were ultimately, you know, checkmated completely unfairly because they know whatever comr says a um referral for contempt to the Department of Justice under Pam Bondi, you know, make her day, make make Trump's day. is just a completely rigged game and it's a rigged government when it comes to that,

14:30 right? And uh for now, you know, in a future DOJ, it'll be interesting as we start to see Democrats positioning for the presidency.

14:41 What a job that'll be though. But just a very quick point is it's so important. I know I've got a DOJ centric view, but I think the candidates really ought to, you know, it's not just another agency. what's happened here. I think the candidates really should be asked and made to sort of state a position. How the hell do you do this reclamation job? That's that's something that I think will will matter to a lot of the American people. Agree. Everybody subscribe to Harry Litman's YouTube channel. Talking feds it's called. So search talking feds.

15:16 Search talking feds. YouTube Substack wherever you get your podcasts. to search search talking feds. Thanks Harry.

15:24 Hey, thanks Ben. Everybody hit subscribe. Let's get to six million subscribers. Want to stay plugged in? Become a subscriber to our Substack at midasplus.com. You'll get daily recaps from Ron Philipski, add free episodes of our podcast, and more exclusive content only available at midasplus.com.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Trump PANICS as DEPOSITION HE FEARED is FINALLY ORDERED!!"?

Ben (Guest), Harry Litman (Guest).

What is "Trump PANICS as DEPOSITION HE FEARED is FINALLY ORDERED!!" about?

A federal judge has ordered depositions for Donald Trump and Elon Musk, despite Musk's claims of protection as a high-ranking government official, with the judge expressing skepticism about Musk's status. The ruling suggests that even high-ranking officials may not be exempt from deposition under certain circumstances, highlighting the legal complexities surrounding the apex doctrine in…

What is mentioned in this MeidasTouch episode?

7 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Elon Musk, Donald Trump, Doge, USAID, Harry Litman, Talking Feds. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Trump PANICS as DEPOSITION HE FEARED is FINALLY ORDERED!!"?

The episode runs 16 min; the transcript is about 2,431 words in 21 timestamped sections.

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