Breaking Burnout Culture: Leveraging Your Zone of Genius with Amina AlTai

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on breaking free from burnout culture by emphasizing the importance of purposeful ambition rather than painful ambition, as shared by executive coach Amina AlTai. She highlights the need for a mindset shift that aligns ambition with personal purpose, ultimately fostering a more balanced and fulfilling life centered around justice, peace, and equity.

Key takeaways

• Ambition is like wildfire; it warms you or burns you. Choose wisely.
• Success that saps your soul is just failure in a fancy dress.
• Ambition without peace is like peanut butter without bread. Just a sticky mess.
• To grow, sometimes you must unroot and replant, just like Herm the plant.
• The ambition trap: chase a dream, avoid the nightmare—autoimmune diseases show up uninvited.

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: The Ambition Trap, Mick Unplugged, success, Amina Alai
2. 5:00 – 10:00: core wounds, purposeful ambition, injustice, painful ambition
3. 10:00 – 15:00: success, burnout prevention, contentment, fight or flight
4. 15:00 – 20:00: burnout culture, 92nd Street Y, ancient Rome, human design
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Eisenhower matrix, glass ceiling, global majority, impact
6. 25:00 – 29:06: control, grandparents house, human design, menalai

Notable quotes from "Breaking Burnout Culture: Leveraging Your Zone of Genius with Amina AlTai"

• Sit down with my really good friend Amina Alai, an executive coach, author of the ambition trap, and one of the leading voices on purpose first leadership. We unpack the…

  about The Ambition Trap · at 0:08

• Failure. You have to shift whatever you're doing. So, I knew this was like six years into my marketing career at the time, I had to change my relationship to ambition and success.

  about marketing career · at 4:52

• There's two orientations of ambition. It can be painful which is driven by our core wounds. And that's when we have this insatiable desire to chase because we're coming from a…

  about core wounds · at 5:47

• Shapes us. And so those wounds are rejection abandonment humiliation betrayal, and injustice. And every single human has one. It's just a very human right of passage. Even if…

  about injustice · at 6:35

• And then purposeful ambition on the other hand is it's more contentment based versus that win no matter the cost. It's about being collaborative versus like hyperindividualistic. It's about honoring our needs versus hurting.

  about contentment · at 7:33

• Below our neck connecting the mind and body, but they're one. And so the thoughts that we have impact our body, our nervous system impacts our thoughts, right? So all of these…

  about impact · at 8:57

• About. So the zone of genius is a term that was coined by Gay Hendrix who wrote the book the big leap. I highly recommend it. It's one of my favorites.

  about The Big Leap · at 14:23

• Of your other zones of genius is helping organizations break through, I'm going to call it burnout culture, right?

  about burnout culture · at 18:09

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Amina Alai — Person · 1 mention · first at 0:09
  Peace? And today on Mick Unplugged, I sit down with my really good friend Amina Alai, an executive coach, author of the ambition trap, and one of the leading voices on purpose…
• Gay Hendrix — Person · 1 mention · first at 14:25
  Work that makes me so happy to talk about. So the zone of genius is a term that was coined by Gay Hendrix who wrote the book the big leap. I highly recommend it. It's one of my favorites.
• Sarah Bellis — Person · 1 mention · first at 27:28
  Oh my god, I feel like it's so trit, but I love that song Brave by Sarah Bellis.
• Mick Hunt — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

• The Ambition Trap — Book · 5 mentions · first at 0:12
• The Big Leap — Book · 2 mentions · first at 14:28

Companies & orgs

• Mick Unplugged — Company · 3 mentions · first at 0:06
  What happens when ambition stops serving your purpose and starts draining your peace? And today on Mick Unplugged, I sit down with my really good friend Amina Alai, an…
• 92nd Street Y — Company · 1 mention · first at 15:46
  Back to ancient Rome. And it was often a hero and rarely a heroine. And there was a study that was done by 92nd Street Y and they found that girls as young as six think that genius is a male trait.
• menalai — Company · 1 mention · first at 27:48
  Thank you so much. You can find me on Instagram at menalai. You can also find me on LinkedIn, same name. And my website is menalai.com.
• menalai.com — Company · 1 mention · first at 27:53
  Instagram at menalai. You can also find me on LinkedIn, same name. And my website is menalai.com.
• mickhuntofficial.com — Company · 1 mention · first at 28:56
  Subscribe. Follow me on social and get the full experience at mickhuntofficial.com.
• The J.M. Smucker Company — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• peanut butter — Product · 2 mentions · first at 0:28
  Serve you. And at the end in our quick five, we talk about her favorite brand of peanut butter. might surprise you.
• Jif peanut butter — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

• purposeful ambition — Concept · 5 mentions · first at 0:19
  Leadership. We unpack the mindset shift that you need to go from painful ambition to purposeful ambition. We talk about the toll of success that doesn't serve you. And at the…
• success — Concept · 5 mentions · first at 0:22
  That you need to go from painful ambition to purposeful ambition. We talk about the toll of success that doesn't serve you. And at the end in our quick five, we talk about her favorite brand of peanut butter. might surprise you.
• painful ambition — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 0:18
  Leading voices on purpose first leadership. We unpack the mindset shift that you need to go from painful ambition to purposeful ambition. We talk about the toll of success that…
• core wounds — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
• impact — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 9:01
• burnout culture — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 18:17
• marketing career — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 4:56
• framework — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 5:33
  I wanted to deeply study and explore ambition. And I came up with this framework where I think ambition is neutral and natural. It's just a desire for growth or a wish for more…
• injustice — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 6:40
• control — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 7:01
  Wear is avoidance or withdrawal. If you have a betrayal wound, the mask you wear is control, where you try to control everything. If you have an injustice wound, the mask you…
• contentment — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 7:35
• fight or flight — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 9:10
  Right? So all of these pieces are so intertwined. And if we live our lives in a dominantly sympathetic or fight or-flight state, we're going to have fight or-flight thoughts.…
• human design — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 17:42
  That's cool. there's like a level of clarity and I really love this body of work called human design and human design they refer to it as the opportunist in the way that your…
• executive coach — Concept · 1 mention · first at 0:09
  Peace? And today on Mick Unplugged, I sit down with my really good friend Amina Alai, an executive coach, author of the ambition trap, and one of the leading voices on purpose…
• purpose-first leadership — Concept · 1 mention · first at 0:14
  Amina Alai, an executive coach, author of the ambition trap, and one of the leading voices on purpose first leadership. We unpack the mindset shift that you need to go from…
• purpose-driven work — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:30
  Question because it's so beautiful. But my because is I have this belief that those of us that are called to purpose- driven work are actually driving toward our version of Dr.…
• beloved community — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:35
  Those of us that are called to purpose- driven work are actually driving toward our version of Dr. King's beloved community. And so my because is I want to create my version of…
• subway — Concept · 1 mention · first at 2:34
  Was a giant monster. And when I first got him, I carried him home on the subway. That's how small he was. He was, carry him in your arms. And then he grew to like seven feet tall.
• transplant — Concept · 1 mention · first at 3:02
  What now? So, fast forward, basically, Herm doesn't do so well in the transplant. But now I'm propagating him.
• new roots — Concept · 1 mention · first at 3:20
  Was a metaphor. I was Herm outgrew the pot and he got too big and he needed new roots. And I feel like that's such an important metaphor for all of us.
• autoimmune disease — Concept · 1 mention · first at 4:43
  Worked for me until it didn't work for me. And I ended up getting very sick and getting two autoimmune diseases. But it happened in this really dramatic fashion where my doctor…
• multiple organ failure — Concept · 1 mention · first at 4:50
  Where my doctor called and was literally If you don't change your ways, you're days away from multiple organ failure. You have to shift whatever you're doing. So, I knew this…
• historically excluded people — Concept · 1 mention · first at 5:11
  Ambitious people. And most of my coaching practice are women and other historically excluded people. And so I noticed that we all had this really tenuous relationship with ambition because we're told to take up space.
• double bind — Concept · 1 mention · first at 5:22
  We're told to speak truth to power. And then in the same breath we're told not to. So there's this pushpull double bind, right? This not good enough too taking up too much…
• abandonment — Concept · 1 mention · first at 6:38
  Happens in our formative years that shapes us. And so those wounds are rejection abandonment humiliation betrayal, and injustice. And every single human has one. It's just a…
• humiliation — Concept · 1 mention · first at 6:38
  Happens in our formative years that shapes us. And so those wounds are rejection abandonment humiliation betrayal, and injustice. And every single human has one. It's just a…
• avoidance — Concept · 1 mention · first at 6:57
  Corresponding mask. So, for example, if you have a rejection wound, the mask you wear is avoidance or withdrawal. If you have a betrayal wound, the mask you wear is control…
• withdrawal — Concept · 1 mention · first at 6:57
  Corresponding mask. So, for example, if you have a rejection wound, the mask you wear is avoidance or withdrawal. If you have a betrayal wound, the mask you wear is control…
• rigidity — Concept · 1 mention · first at 7:04
  Is control, where you try to control everything. If you have an injustice wound, the mask you can wear is rigidity or perfectionism. And when we build our ambition upon that, it's it's a bit of a house of cards.
• seasons of growth — Concept · 1 mention · first at 9:39
  More achievements. But I actually think it's cyclical, right? So I think it goes in cycles. So we have these seasons of growth where we, I want to write a book. I want a…
• burnout prevention — Concept · 1 mention · first at 10:24
  Right relationship with our bodies as we are ambitious is so important and really important for burnout prevention.
• rest and digest — Concept · 1 mention · first at 12:51
  But the way that my nervous system experiences that is very different than the way that it used to. It's more rest and digest around it versus fight or flight. And I just had…
• opportunist — Concept · 1 mention · first at 17:44
  Work called human design and human design they refer to it as the opportunist in the way that your brain can connect the dots faster than anybody else's to get to the path and…
• type A — Concept · 1 mention · first at 18:28
  Putting the action behind it because I think a lot of times your top your not your top A but your type A CEOs and seuite leaders, right? Again, it's that if I can do it, you…
• modern employee — Concept · 1 mention · first at 18:44
  Well, in 2025, 2026, that's not what the modern employee actually looks for. And modern leaders shouldn't want that either. Talk to us about just that.
• urgency culture — Concept · 1 mention · first at 20:41
  The other one that I have that, I think sometimes is a tougher pill to swallow is the urgency culture. So much of the time we operate as if everything is urgent and it's…
• Eisenhower matrix — Concept · 1 mention · first at 21:08
  I agree with you, which is why again we have so much in common. I'm a huge believer in the Eisenhower matrix, right? Like you get task or you get things and you have to quantify them. Is it is this thing urgent and important?
• systemic issues — Concept · 1 mention · first at 23:06
  A big boy and I can handle it but you help people that are facing systemic issues or systemic expectations. I'd love for you to talk about that journey a little bit and that passion that you have because you really are.
• meritocracy — Concept · 1 mention · first at 23:53
  Particularly in the workplace, are really different, right? It's not a meritocracy, right? and we experience a lot of harm as a result of it and you know like that's something…
• onlyies — Concept · 1 mention · first at 24:07
  Can we support a lot of these so most of my clients are the first the fuse the onlyies so they are the first woman in leadership the first person of color the first queer…

Places & events

• ancient Rome — Place · 1 mention · first at 15:41
  Researching for the book, I traced the lineage of the word genius all the way back to ancient Rome. And it was often a hero and rarely a heroine. And there was a study that was…
• grandparents house — Place · 1 mention · first at 26:13
  Oh, I'm going to say my grandparents house. they've passed on, but like I never felt more grounded and at home than I did in their house.

Sponsors

• sponsor call-to-action: Rate and subscribe — Sponsor · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 What happens when ambition stops serving your purpose and starts draining your peace? And today on Mick Unplugged, I sit down with my really good friend Amina Alai, an executive coach, author of the ambition trap, and one of the leading voices on purpose first leadership. We unpack the mindset shift that you need to go from painful ambition to purposeful ambition. We talk about the toll of success that doesn't serve you. And at the end in our quick five, we talk about her favorite brand of peanut butter. might surprise you.

0:29 Ladies and gentlemen, I present my good friend, Miss Amina Ala. This is Mick Unplugged. Let us uncover the because that thing that drives you. That thing that fuels you. I'm ready. If you are, let's go. Mina, how you doing today, dear?

0:52 Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. I need to bring you everywhere with me. That was just the ultimate hype train. That was incredible.

1:00 No, no, no. It's all true. It's all who you are. I mean, I've been a really big fan of yours. One of my favorite authors of all time, and we're going to talk about the books in a little bit, but I love starting the episode off by asking my guests, what's their because that thing that's deeper than your why that really keeps you going. So, if I were to say today, Amina, what's your cause?

1:22 Yeah, I love that you asked that question because it's so beautiful. But my because is I have this belief that those of us that are called to purpose- driven work are actually driving toward our version of Dr. King's beloved community. And so my because is I want to create my version of Dr. King's beloved community where we center justice, peace, and equity and everybody gets to live into the fullness of their experience because imagine what kind of world we'd live in if we all had that.

1:52 I love it. And I mean I was so excited to get to ask you that question, right? Because a lot of my guests, a lot of my friends, a lot of my family, you know, are because centers around like our children or, you know, some of the things that we do, sometimes even our pets. But Amina, you're you're not the the cat lady. You're the you're the plant lady. Talk to us about your love of plants and all the really cool things that you do with your children.

2:19 Oh my gosh. Well, I have to tell you kind of like a sad story. So oftentimes people will see this plant in the background of my recordings. His name is Herm. I've had him for nine years. He was a giant monster. And when I first got him, I carried him home on the subway. That's how small he was. He was, you know, carry him in your arms. And then he grew to like seven feet tall. But over the course of the last year, he wasn't doing so well. So I thought, okay, let me replant him. He'd gotten so big, I thought maybe he needs a bigger container. And I replanted him. Well, actually hired someone to replant him because he was too big for me to do it.

2:51 And then after the person replants him, they're like, "Oh, I've never worked with this plant before. I hope it doesn't die." And I was like, "What? What now?" So, fast forward, basically, Herm doesn't do so well in the transplant. But now I'm propagating him. So, I took nine cutings and I'm actually propagating it into a new plant that I will put back together. But I do love my plant children and I just had a very, really hard experience. But I thought it was a metaphor. I was like, Herm outgrew the pot and he got too big and he needed new roots. And I feel like that's such an important metaphor for all of us.

3:23 There are times in our lives where we need new roots. So, it feels like a burning down, but it's actually a rebuilding. So, that's the metaphor I'm running with this.

3:32 I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love learning different things about you. So, it's kind of cool. It's kind of cool. I want to talk a little bit about the ambition trap. multipletime bestseller, right? And for those that that haven't written books, let me explain it to you. Like bestsellers are like the previous week's info, sales, and data. So, it's not like you write a book and it's a bestseller forever. So, one, this is how dynamic the book is because it's a multi-time bestseller, which is amazing, Amina, by the way. But let's talk about the the reasoning and the logic behind

4:10 wanting to put that book out. What was that what was that concept like for you?

4:16 Yes. So the book is called the ambition trap and I'm somebody that has deeply studied ambition for basically my whole life. I am the child of immigrants and really watched my dad struggle to kind of find his place in the world. And you know I picked up a lot of that programming too. I was told like, "Keep your head down, work really hard, be the hardest working person in the room, first one in, last one out." And that worked for me until it didn't work for me. And I ended up getting very sick and getting two autoimmune diseases. But it happened in this really dramatic fashion where my doctor called and was literally like, "If you don't change your ways, you're days away from multiple organ failure. You have to shift whatever you're doing." So, I knew this was like six years into my marketing career at the time, I had to change my relationship to ambition and success.

5:01 And eventually a few few years after that I went on to become a coach. But I had this front row seat to other really ambitious people. And most of my coaching practice are women and other historically excluded people. And so I noticed that we all had this really tenuous relationship with ambition because we're told to take up space. We're told to speak truth to power. And then in the same breath we're told not to. So there's this pushpull double bind, right? This not good enough too taking up too much space. And I saw all of us really rumbling with that. And so I wanted to deeply study and explore ambition. And I came up with this framework where I think ambition is neutral and natural. It's just a desire for growth or a wish for more life. And that's inherent in every living thing on the planet from our human babies to our plant babies. But we make it right for some people and wrong for others. And

5:47 there's two orientations of ambition. It can be painful which is driven by our core wounds. And that's when we have this insatiable desire to chase because we're coming from a place of pain. And then my invitation in the book is to pivot into purposeful ambition that's connected to our truth that's coming from a place of wholeness. And so that was the impetus for the book and and sort of the the thesis of it. I love it. And I want to go into that because you you do talk about painful and purposeful ambition. And so for those that are watching, those that are listening, we have the expert here, Amina. How do you distinguish between painful ambition and purposeful ambition?

6:26 Yeah. So painful is driven by the core wounds. So there's five core wounds. And a core wound is an initial injury of the psyche. It's sort of like an injury that happens in our formative years that shapes us. And so those wounds are rejection abandonment humiliation betrayal, and injustice. And every single human has one. It's just a very human right of passage. Even if you have the best parents on the planet, like you'll just emerge with one either from the playground or vicariously. And as a result of the wounds, we are a corresponding mask. So, for example, if you have a rejection wound, the mask you wear is avoidance or withdrawal. If you have a betrayal wound, the mask you wear is control, where you try to control everything. If you have an injustice wound, the mask you can wear is rigidity or perfectionism. And when we build our ambition upon that, it's it's a bit of a house of cards.

7:12 And so, painful ambition is driven by those core wounds. And it has a couple of signatures. So, it can look at look like moving at unsustainable urgency, instrumentalizing our minds and bodies to get to the goal. this desire to win no matter the cost and no matter the cost being the key phrase there because winning is lovely, right? But it's like when we're willing to hurt ourselves and others to get there.

7:30 It can look like black and white either or thinking. And then purposeful ambition on the other hand is it's more contentment based versus that win no matter the cost. It's about being collaborative versus like hyperindividualistic. It's about honoring our needs versus hurting our bodies. So sort of the opposite of the painful piece.

7:48 That's brilliant. Like truly brilliant. And and it captivated me when I started reading the book. You know, obviously the title got me the ambition trap and I said, "Wait a second. Am I not supposed to be ambitious?" Like, hold on. And then going into the book, you're like, "No, but you need to understand the purpose behind the ambition." But then you also talk about and highlight the interconnection of body, mind, and career. Yeah.

8:16 And it really really stuck with me because, you know, as a serial entrepreneur as I like to be, I drive hard, right? Like I I drive really hard. I my friends laugh because I know one speed and one speed only. And it's like I'm never going to slow down. But the book did make me pause and it said, "Okay, I may never change how hard I run or how fast I run, right? I I may never do that." But I can talk about this interconnection that you brought up so brilliantly in the book. And so for those that are watching or listening, talk about that interconnection of body, mind, and career.

8:50 I don't think we can separate ourselves, right? I think so many of us are taught to, right? We're a lot of us live as if there's this invisible line, you know, below our neck connecting the mind and body, but they're one. And so the thoughts that we have impact our body, our nervous system impacts our thoughts, right? So all of these pieces are so intertwined. And if we live our lives in a dominantly sympathetic or fight or-flight state, we're going to have fight or-flight thoughts. It's also going to express as disease, right? So when we're thinking about ambition and our careers and hard charging and all these things, we have to bring our minds and our nervous systems on the journey.

9:23 And it's exactly what you said. It doesn't mean that we can't hard charge, but it means we need to work harmoniously with these things. So let me give you an example. You know, I think how we're taught about ambition is we think it's more for Moore's sake all the time, right? More money, more power, more achievements. But I actually think it's cyclical, right? So I think it goes in cycles. So we have these seasons of growth where we, you know, I want to write a book. I want a promotion. I want to launch a new company, right? And you nurture your inner and outer environment. You have this beautiful peak moment, right? Where if we're using the plant metaphor, it's like the petals come out. It's gorgeous. But then the seasons change and we wind down and we go back underground. And so I think it is perfectly fine to sprint in the growth periods, right? Like I cannot look you in the face and say that

10:04 writing a book did not require me to sprint because it absolutely required me to sprint. And then you know after the push of the book coming out I went back underground and I kind of nurtured myself again before I decided to rise and take aim again. And I think allowing that cycle allowing ourselves to be in right relationship with our bodies as we are ambitious is so important and really important for burnout prevention. I I needed that in the book because it was coming at the right time for me when I first read it as you know right speaking that you do writing the book the appearances and then oh by the way you're also running businesses right you have clients you have to meet meet the demand of

10:45 that's the part like we run whole businesses while doing this too right and I'm like you know Amina and I have so much in common that your book was right there for me. So, how do you as a coach, right, as a as a leader of people, how do you guide your clients and your peers to build careers that feel as good as they look? Because again, you go through this burnout, I I shouldn't say burnout, you go through the sprinting stage, right? And then everybody posts what they're doing on social media and it looks great, but it should also feel good to you as well, too. So, how do you coach people through that?

11:25 Yeah, I love this question. Well, first of all, we have to redefine success for ourselves, right? Because I think a lot of us are conditioned to believe it's something else. And anytime we're like, success should look this way. If we're using the language of should, we're usually in somebody else's belief system, right? It could be cultural, it could be familial. And I had all these ideas about what success should be based on my immigrant parents. And then realized, actually, I want something different for myself. Success for me includes my body being well. I think it should for all of us, right? I don't I think that should be each of our birthrights. But so first of all, we have to reclaim success for ourselves and redefine it for ourselves. And second of all, we really have to collaborate with our bodies and our nervous systems. You know, I I just had a birthday last week and every year on

12:06 my birthday, thanks. I write myself a little note and I say, "Open it the next year on your birthday." And it's funny because I was reading last year's note that I wrote to myself and one of the things that was at the top of the list was, you know, I want ease for you. And when I thought and I was like ease has been on the top of my list for so long and I thought about it and I was like you know what I think I actually have achieved it. I was just thinking about it a little differently. You know in the past I thought about ease is like oh you know there's so much spaciousness and you know I was thinking about it as a spaciousness I think. And when I tuned into it this year I was like oh at the level of the nervous system I do have ease right? I'm still sprinting. I'm still putting out a book. I'm still running a business. all these things, but the way that my nervous system experiences that is very different than

12:51 the way that it used to. It's more rest and digest around it versus fight or flight. And I just had that moment about it recently. And so, you know, all of this is to say is we have to redefine success for ourselves. And I think also finding that harmony harmony at the level of the nervous system. But inside the book, there's a five-part framework. And basically, I talk about how purposeful work and purposeful ambition hinges upon five things. And it needs to leverage our zone of genius. It needs to ensure that we're operating in a space that we're values aligned. That we're connected to the impact that we want to have, whether that's our family, community, or the greater good. That our needs are met. And that's a big one. And that we're cultivating a sense of contentment. And so when we've checked the box on all five of those things, were usually flowing.

13:36 Wow. That's why I'm glad I'm talking to you now. again like all the things that I had questions or that I would highlight in the book like you're coming back and talking through them again being a big a big fan of yours. I heard or saw an interview where you were talking about that zone of genius and how you'll work with people that are rock stars, superstars, athletes, and and they're like, "Yeah, but I don't think I really have that

14:01 that genius zone, right? I just work hard, right?" Yeah. I'm going to work everybody and then this thing happens. But talk to us about just that phenomena a little bit that you're able to untap into people to help them understand no everybody has some type of genius and you help us get that out.

14:18 I love when people ask me questions around the zone of genius because it is work that makes me so happy to talk about. So the zone of genius is a term that was coined by Gay Hendrix who wrote the book the big leap. I highly recommend it. It's one of my favorites. And so I built upon this concept and I re I believe that all of us have a zone of genius and I think a lot of us operate in spaces and work in organizations where we're usually in service to one person's genius but that creates a lot of toxic dynamics. So in reality everybody has a zone that they are off thecharts brilliant at where we don't have to push force or effort. It's just innate. Our gifts kind of flow in that space. And I always use the example of a child who's a musical virtuoso because they come to the planet with that gift kind of, right? But they have to keep honing it and getting better at it to really like live into the genius.

15:05 And that's available for all of us. But I cannot tell you I think it must happen in virtually every coaching session. I cannot tell you how many people I've sat across from and they are just incredible humans and they will look at me and say, "I do not have a zone of genius." And I'm literally like looking at the gold medals in the background or like I see the 360 reviews that they get inside of their organization and it's so clear to me. But you know the way that we've come to understand genius I think is part of the problem, right? We think that it's only high IQ scores. We think that it's only STEM, right? And when I was researching for the book, I traced the lineage of the word genius all the way back to ancient Rome. And it was often a hero and rarely a heroine. And there was a study that was done by 92nd Street Y and they found that girls as young as six think that genius is a male trait.

15:52 And so so many of us have to reclaim that word for us because we have these perceptions and ideas of what it looks like. But what I love about each of us having a zone of genius is that it democratizes it, right? Then there's no above or below. There's no power over because we each have a zone and when we come together in it, that's where we shift things. So how magical is that? It's like no one's genius is better than anybody else's and we're all in service to each other. I just think that's like the best part of it.

16:19 So what's Amina's genius? Okay. So I I think that it is seeing other people's genius. And that sometimes I think sounds like a copout, but the reason I can see other people's genius is because of the way that I hold a container is something happens in the first session with all of my clients where I look over and I'm like, "Oh my god, I love this person." Because I see them fully, right? That's my gift is seeing other people fully and then it's just so evident what their gift is from that place. But it's because I look through the the lens of love. I think

16:51 okay I I won't count that as a copout. I get I I pick up what you're putting down. I pick

16:57 I'm so glad I do think it is a gift. Clarify. Right. All of our zones of genius can be different. Like sometimes they are more power skills. Sometimes they're more hard skills. It looks different for all of us. There's no right or wrong way to genius.

17:09 Yeah, I agree. Can I ask what your zone of genius is? I think I have a unique ability to see the path forward to make a result happen. So I'm I'm so resultsoriented and I think I'm not unique. I think there are a lot of resultsoriented people. What I think a zone of genius is for me is the path to make the result happen.

17:34 I can usually identify really quickly. That's cool. there's like a level of clarity and I really love this body of work called human design and human design they refer to it as the opportunist in the way that your brain can connect the dots faster than anybody else's to get to the path and it's like oh when people's brain works that way I'm just like that's amazing

17:53 yeah yeah I'm I'm able to quiet noise to to see the path so yeah I think that's me

18:00 I also think you're an amazing listener okay I'll take that I'll take that I'll take that. So, one of your other zones of genius is helping organizations break through, I'm going to call it burnout culture, right?

18:20 And and and really putting the action behind it because I think a lot of times your your top your not your top A but your your type A CEOs and seuite leaders, right? Again, it's that if I can do it, you can do it. If I'm willing to work 12 hours a day, then everybody on the team should be willing to work 12 hours a day.

18:41 Well, in 2025, 2026, that's not what the modern employee actually looks for. And modern leaders shouldn't want that either. Talk to us about just that. Getting rid of the burnout culture. Number one, why is it important? And then I think the most important thing for the viewers and listeners, what's like the first or maybe top two changes that leaders need to make to avoid burnout culture?

19:06 You know, I think context is so important, right? Because like when those CEOs are like, I work 12-hour days, I work 70our weeks, we're not thinking about the context of their life, right? Oftentimes they are making seven figures, multiple seven figures. Oftentimes they have vast support both at home and at work, right? And then we're speaking to people that make, let's say, less than six figures and don't have that level of support, right? So, I think context is so important. And so, I think it's, you know, really challenging to say to somebody that is in such a different and and much more precarious situation than you to be like, be the hardest working person in the room like me cuz you're not the same.

19:42 I think that's super important to say. And then your second question was, how can we get rid of burnout?

19:47 Yeah. What are the what are the top two things or action items that leaders can do to to start to break that cycle of a burnout culture?

19:58 One of the things I think we can do that I think is a really positive thing too both for the individual and the organization is focusing on the zone of genius. Right? Because if we are working in that space that we are off the charts brilliant at what we can contribute usually far outpaces what others can contribute in that space and what we can contribute in other zones. And so it just requires less energy and effort on the body and that in and of itself can shift burnout. And organizations like that, right? Because we're not saying like, hey, you know, shift to only working 5 hours a day or three days a week. We're saying actually this pivot into your zone of genius will serve the individual and we'll serve the organization. So I find that that's a really positive change and a great way to language it.

20:38 The other one that I have that, you know, I think sometimes is a tougher pill to swallow is the the urgency culture. So much of the time we operate as if everything is urgent and it's actually not true. Few things are urgent, right? And it's important for us to prioritize and address those things. But if we operate as if everything is urgent and we're constantly sprinting, that has such an impact on the body. And so I think shifting urgency culture is another really big one.

21:03 I agree with you, which is why again we have so much in common. You know, I'm a huge believer in the Eisenhower matrix, right? Like you get task or you get things and you have to quantify them. Is it is this thing urgent and important? Is it is it urgent but not important? Is it neither urgent nor important? Right? And so that's what we do because for me I think the best way to achieve life is to work on things that are important but not urgent, right? Like if we're constantly in a spot of putting out fires, then literally that's all we do.

21:36 And then at some point you start just looking for fires to put out and that becomes who you are,

21:42 right? And and so one of the things that that I work with leaders on is how do you avoid that trap of the person who's really good at putting out fires at some point is just going to start finding fires and then to everybody else they're not really fires. And so I I'm a huge fan of what you just said because I can relate in that sense for sure. That was so brilliantly said and I think that I think I used to be that person like when I think about my marketing career I was so trained to put out fires then I sought out the fires right but then you become addicted to chaos and then you also can't access your higher level of thinking because you're just always in the chaos. Yeah.

22:21 So I I love how you language that. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know, and and I can't I can't go a step further without also acknowledging something for you because what you don't know, Amina, is that my sister, one of my aunts, a couple of my female cousins really look up to you in the work that you do. you

22:46 you are such a barrier breaker and you help women who are facing and these are my words and my words only so don't don't come at me with comments but come at me because I'm a big boy and I can handle it but but but you help people that are facing systemic issues or systemic expectations. I'd love for you to talk about that journey a little bit and and that passion that you have because you really are so valuable. You you were so needed and and I just wanted to say thank you.

23:25 Thank you so much for saying that. None of it is lost on me. And especially the part about like your cousins and sisters, like all of it, like it's just so meaningful to me. And it like this is what gets me up every single day is I want to be in service and support of these people.

23:40 And the reason that I do it is that I think just very early on I realized like a lot of people realize, right, the starting line is not the same for everybody. And all of our experiences, particularly in the workplace, are really different, right? It's not a meritocracy, right? and we experience a lot of harm as a result of it and you know like that's something that I really want to shift in my lifetime like how can we support a lot of these so most of my clients are the first the fuse the onlyies so they are the first woman in leadership the first person of color the first queer person the first man of color right and they experience so much headwinds as a result of that right they have their very own glass clip experiences where maybe they make it through the glass ceiling but then they get pushed off the proverbial a cliff and they experience a lot of bias and

24:28 it just requires a very particular lens and level of care to support those folks, right? Because they are navigating systems that weren't designed for them to thrive. And I think it's important that we have honest conversations about that. And you know, I think that we are making some headway, right? I don't I don't think fast enough. We're making some headway though. And so it does give me hope, but we need more people that look like you, that look like me in these spaces, right? that are making decisions for the global majority. And so I just feel really impassioned about it. And you know, as a woman of color who has invisible disability, right, who's had my own experiences like this, I just want things to feel different for folks because we spend more of our heartbeats at work than we do anywhere else. It should feel really good and it just feels so broken for so many people.

25:11 Again, can't thank you enough. Can't show you enough appreciation and adoration for for just who you are. So, so thank you, Amina. Thank you.

25:21 Oh my gosh. Thank you. And thank you for all of the amazing work that you do in the world. I think that you are killing it. I look up to you so much and just so grateful that you would share your platform with me.

25:30 Stop all that. It's all good. It's all good. So, I'm going to get you out of here on what I call my quick five. So, five rapid fire questions for me to get to know Amino a little bit. You ready?

25:42 Mhm. All right. Your favorite comfort food is Oh, I just had peanut butter. So that's top of mind.

25:50 Oh, all right. So, this is going to be a real deal breaking question right here.

25:53 What's your favorite brand of peanut butter then? Oh, I always get the Whole Foods organic one.

25:59 This conversation has just ended. You did not say GIF peanut butter. The greatest

26:03 I'm not a Chip girl. I'm so sorry. I mean, our friendship just ended. What's your favorite vacation spot?

26:13 Oh, I'm going to say my grandparents house. they've passed on, but like I never felt more grounded and at home than I did in their house.

26:19 I love that. I love that. What's the biggest lesson that you've learned in the past year?

26:28 That control is such an illusion and I learn it every year. I'm humbled by it every single time. I'm surprised by it every single time even though I know that we can control maybe one thing, right? But yeah, I'm always humbled and surprised by that lesson.

26:41 I gotcha. What has been a book or a phrase that has gotten you through the most?

26:51 I really do love Gay Hendrick's book, The Big Leap, especially about our zone of genius and our upper limits. It just changed the game for me. It changed how I understood myself so much. And then, this is not a book or phrase, but I really love human design as a body of work as well because it highlights everything that is right with you, where I feel like so many bodies of work tell us what's quote unquote wrong with us. Okay, good stuff. Good stuff. All right, get you out of here on this one. I know you do a lot of speaking. You've got to get really hyped up. Or even if it's going to the gym, you get really hyped up. What's playing in your ear? What's your hype song?

27:25 Oh my god, I feel like it's so trit, but I love that song Brave by Sarah Bellis.

27:31 Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's everybody's walkout song, so I need to come up with a new one. But but that I'm a little basic and so that's that's my answer today. Good stuff, Amina. Totally enjoyed spending time with you. A couple of things. Where can people find and follow you?

27:46 Thank you so much. You can find me on Instagram at menalai. You can also find me on LinkedIn, same name. And my website is menalai.com. And I'm sure the spelling will be in the show notes. And then you can get the book Everywhere Books Are Sold. They might not have it in person, so you can ask them to order it, but Everywhere Books Are Sold, The Ambition Trap.

28:05 I will have links to all of that. Totally. I want everyone to to do me a favor. Make sure you're getting a copy of the book. And when you get a copy of the book, message her. Tell her couple things you love. Ask her questions. Like she's I promise you she's that engaging. So make sure that you show her the love that you should. Um dear, just so glad I could spend time with you today.

28:30 I'm so so grateful. You are such a real one. And thank you again for sharing your platform with me and for being endlessly inspiring and showing us all what is possible. Thank you.

28:39 You got it. And for all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

28:46 You've been plugged into Mick Unplugged. Don't just listen, take action. Rate and subscribe. Follow me on social and get the full experience at mickhuntofficial.com. Keep building, keep leading, and most importantly, keep dominating.

Questions about this episode

What is "Breaking Burnout Culture: Leveraging Your Zone of Genius with Amina AlTai" about?

The discussion focuses on breaking free from burnout culture by emphasizing the importance of purposeful ambition rather than painful ambition, as shared by executive coach Amina AlTai. She highlights the need for a mindset shift that aligns ambition with personal purpose, ultimately fostering a more balanced and fulfilling life centered around justice, peace, and equity.

What is mentioned in this Mick Unplugged Podcast episode?

80 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including The Ambition Trap, purposeful ambition, success, Mick Unplugged, painful ambition, core wounds. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Breaking Burnout Culture: Leveraging Your Zone of Genius with Amina AlTai"?

The episode runs 29 min; the transcript is about 6,033 words in 73 timestamped sections.

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