Transcript

The Supreme Court Cases That Could Redefine Women’s Sports

From Morning Wire · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 22 min · 3,919 words · 49 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Supreme Court Cases That Could Redefine Women’s Sports", an episode of Morning Wire published January 17, 2026 (22 min, about 3,919 words). It mentions 17 people, works and ideas, including women's sports, Alliance Defending Freedom, Kristen Waggoner, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), transgender.

What this episode is about

The text discusses two critical Supreme Court cases, ACLU vs. West Virginia and Idaho's Little vs. Hickox, which address whether states can restrict male athletes from competing in women's sports to protect the rights of female competitors. The arguments highlight the tension between pro-transgender rights advocates and proponents of women's sports, focusing on issues of discrimination, the essence of gender, and the implications for competitive fairness in athletic settings.

Key takeaways

  • Sports are a zero-sum game: one player's gain is another's loss—a concept even Justice Kavanaugh couldn't ignore.
  • Arguments for women's sports hinge on fairness and Title IX, overshadowing the pro-trans side's struggle for clarity.
  • 27 states have women's protections while 23 don’t; that's a game-changing statistic in this contentious legal match-up.
  • Snipers at the Supreme Court? Just another day in the heated battle for gender and sports rights.
  • In this legal showdown, the stakes are high for both women's rights and transgender inclusion—who will win the court's favor?

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: women's sports, Alliance Defending Freedom, Kristen Waggoner, John Bickley
  2. – 10:00: West Virginia, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), female athletes, Justice Samuel Alito
  3. – 15:00: transgender, Justice Samuel Alito, gender identity, women's sports
  4. – 20:00: women's sports, transgender, West Virginia
  5. – 21:39: Alliance Defending Freedom

Notable quotes from "The Supreme Court Cases That Could Redefine Women’s Sports"

  • Protransgender activists argue that it's discrimination to keep men who identify as women out, while the pro-omen sports side argues that common sense, science, and title 9 and the constitution are on.
    about transgender · at
  • Arguments and why women's sports advocates are feeling more energized than ever. I'm Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley with Georgia How.
    about John Bickley · at
  • This episode is sponsored by Brick House Nutrition. By the time the average person reaches 60, they've likely cycled through numerous fat diets like juice cleanses, the cabbage soup diet, and raw.
    about Brick House Nutrition · at
  • I'm optimistic about how the justices will rule. I do think that they will rule to uphold equal opportunity and fairness and safety for women. And that's thrilling after such a…
    about women's sports · at
  • Sports act. they have different names, but they're all focused around ensuring that male athletes are not playing in the female category. And that can occur both at the…
    about male athletes · at
  • First and foremost, it was just how the ACLU was running away from their own arguments and that we've been litigating in the past 10 years. They are scrambling as fast as they can.
    about American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) · at
  • Gender altering or affirming surgery says, Nevertheless, I am a woman. That's who I am. C can the school say, No, you cannot participate on the girls team.
    about Justice Samuel Alito · at
  • Pro- women's sports side about the language that the justices used left-wing gender identity language to be specific. Here's some of that impact.
    about gender identity · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Kristen Waggoner — Person · Main guest · 3 mentions · first at
    She joins the show as President and CEO of Alliance Defending Freedom to interpret the Supreme Court oral arguments and explain ADF’s position on state laws restricting male participation in women’s sports.
    Joining us now to break down what we heard in oral arguments this week is Alliance Defending Freedom President and CEO Kristen Wagner. Kristen, good to see you again. Thanks for coming on.
  • Justice Samuel Alito — Person · Referenced authority (Supreme Court Justice) · 4 mentions · first at
    He is described as pressing the ACLU advocate on defining sex and on whether their position permits discrimination based on transgender status.
  • John Bickley — Person · Host · 2 mentions · first at
    He introduces the episode, frames the Supreme Court cases, and interviews Kristen Waggoner.
  • Brett Kavanaugh — Person · Referenced authority (Supreme Court Justice) · 2 mentions · first at
    Quoted emphasizing that sports participation is “zero-sum,” highlighting tradeoffs when a transgender-identified male competes in women’s categories.
    And when Justice Brett Kavanaaugh made clear that sports are ultimately a zero- sum game.

Companies & orgs

  • Alliance Defending Freedom — Company · Core organization / guest affiliation · 4 mentions · first at
    ADF is described as helping state attorneys general defend laws limiting women’s sports to females and representing female athletes in related litigation.
    Alliance Defending Freedom has been representing female athletes for the better part of 10 years. Some are in states that are protecting women and others are in states that are violating.
  • American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) — Company · Referenced opposing party · 3 mentions · first at
    Presented as the key legal opponent in the Supreme Court arguments; criticized for refusing to define sex and for advancing gender-identity-based arguments.
  • Lean — Company · Advertised product · 1 mention · first at
    Promoted as a non-prescription weight-loss supplement in an ad segment; unrelated to the Supreme Court discussion.
    Be dangerous. That's where Lean comes in. Unlike those expensive GLP1 injections, lean is a non-prescription supplement created by doctors specifically for this problem. And…

Concepts & topics

  • women's sports — Concept · Core topic · 7 mentions · first at
    The episode centers on whether states may restrict participation in women’s sports to biological females, framed around fairness, safety, and equal opportunity.
  • transgender — Concept · Core topic · 6 mentions · first at
    The legal dispute is framed around whether excluding males who identify as female from women’s sports constitutes discrimination based on transgender status.
  • female athletes — Concept · Core topic (affected group) · 3 mentions · first at
    ADF’s litigation posture is framed around protecting female athletes’ opportunities, scholarships, medals, and safety in sex-separated sports.
    Alliance Defending Freedom has been representing female athletes for the better part of 10 years. Some are in states that are protecting women and others are in states that are violating.
  • Title IX — Concept · Core legal concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Invoked as a statutory basis for sex-separated sports and finite scholarship opportunities; used to argue that male inclusion can displace women.
    Represent Laney Armistad out of West Virginia who went to school on a scholarship and under Title N there are a finite number of scholarships that you can get. And so every…
  • male athletes — Concept · Core topic (eligibility category) · 1 mention · first at
    Central to the dispute: whether males should be barred from competing in the female category to preserve fairness and opportunities for girls and women.
  • gender identity — Concept · Core topic / contested framing · 3 mentions · first at
    Raised in connection with court language (“cisgender,” “transgender”) and the argument that eligibility should track identity rather than biological sex.
  • Big Sky Championship — Concept · Referenced event · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as an example of a competition outcome allegedly affected by a male athlete competing against females.
    And that male athlete actually took the Big Sky Championship away from another deserving female athlete. We also represent Laney Armistad out of West Virginia who went to school on a.

Places & events

  • West Virginia — Place · Key jurisdiction in litigation · 5 mentions · first at
    One of the two states whose women’s sports law is being defended at the Supreme Court; also referenced in examples of alleged displacement of girls.
    Supreme Court Tuesday when the justices heard arguments on two landmark cases being considered together. The ACLU versus West Virginia and Idaho's Little versus Hickox. Both…
  • Idaho — Place · Key jurisdiction in litigation · 1 mention · first at
    The second state in the paired Supreme Court cases; its law is defended alongside West Virginia’s as part of the same legal question.
    That are in play, one from West Virginia, one from Idaho. We have the privilege of standing alongside the West Virginia and Idaho attorneys general as they defended their laws.…

Sponsors

  • Brick House Nutrition — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Sponsor associated with the Lean supplement advertisement.

Full transcript with timestamps

Sports Fair Sports Fair. That was the scene outside the US Supreme Court Tuesday when the justices heard arguments on two landmark cases being considered together. The ACLU versus West Virginia and Idaho's Little versus Hickox. Both cases center on the question of whether states can enact laws to protect girls in women's sports by barring males from competing in them.

Protransgender activists argue that it's discrimination to keep men who identify as women out, while the pro-omen sports side argues that common sense, science, and title 9 and the constitution are on their side. While not all oral arguments and cases offer fireworks, several moments from Tuesday's session went viral, including when the protransgender side failed to define what makes a boy or a girl. We do not have a definition for the court.

And when Justice Brett Kavanaaugh made clear that sports are ultimately a zero- sum game.

And I think we have to recognize on both sides the zero sum. It's not like, oh, just add another person to the team. That's not how sports works. uh it's it's someone else is going to get disadvantaged.

In this episode, Alliance Defending Freedom's Kristen Wagner joins us to discuss the key moments from the arguments and why women's sports advocates are feeling more energized than ever. I'm Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley with Georgia How. This is a special legal wire edition of Morning Wire.

This is your year. 2026 is when that business idea finally becomes real. You've been thinking about it long enough. That product you know people need. That vision that keeps you up at night, that side hustle waiting to become your main hustle. Our sponsor, Shopify, gives you everything you need to stop planning and start building. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made the leap, from big household names to people just starting their first business, including our own Daily Wire Shop. The platform gives you all the tools to build your dream store without the headache. You can choose from hundreds of beautiful templates and customize them to match your brand.

Marketing is baked right into so you can create email and social campaigns that reach customers wherever they're scrolling. And as your business grows, Shopify scales right along with you. You can handle more orders, expand into new markets, and manage everything from the same dashboard. In 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/morningwire. Go to shopify.com/morningwire. That's shopify.com/morningwire. Hear your first this new year with Shopify by your side.

This episode is sponsored by Brick House Nutrition. By the time the average person reaches 60, they've likely cycled through numerous fat diets like juice cleanses, the cabbage soup diet, and raw food regimens, collectively losing and regaining several hundred lbs over the years. You've probably done it without even knowing that there's a name for it. It's called weight cycling. Half of Americans are stuck in this frustrating cycle, and doctors are now seeing it's not just disappointing, it can actually be dangerous. That's where Lean comes in. Unlike those expensive GLP1 injections, lean is a non-prescription supplement created by doctors specifically for this problem. And the science behind it is rock solid. I used to be that guy in the kitchen here at work loading up on snacks more than a few times a day. But with Lean, I spend less time snacking and more time focused in on work. You know, the executives

love to hear that one. If you want to lose meaningful weight at a healthy pace and keep it off, add lean to your diet and exercise lifestyle. Get 20% off when you enter Wire at takelean.com. That's codewire at taker green.com. Today,

joining us now to break down what we heard in oral arguments this week is Alliance Defending Freedom President and CEO Kristen Wagner. Kristen, good to see you again. Thanks for coming on.

Nice to see you. Thank you for having me. So, this was a massive week for women's sports. We at the Daily Wire were on the ground there outside the Supreme Court. It was pretty remarkable site. There was the pro- women's sports advocates. There were the transgender activists. There were snipers positioned there to protect people. It was it was intense. But there was also a lot of optimism from the pro- women's sports side coming out of this. In fact, let's start there before we talk through some of the highlights. Big picture, what was your takeaway from how the justices responded to both sides of the cases?

I'm optimistic about how the justices will rule. I do think that they will rule to uphold equal opportunity and fairness and safety for women. And that's thrilling after such a long time of not having it on the field. Now, there are 27 states that have protections for women. 23 do not. They often actively force schools to accept boys and girls sports. So, major ramifications for every single state, of course. Briefly, if you would, can you summarize these two cases for us? First, they're being argued together because they're effectively the same case, and in both cases, the state's attorneys general are defending the state's laws, and ADF is helping them do so. What do listeners need to know for context here?

Alliance Defending Freedom has been representing female athletes for the better part of 10 years. Some are in states that are protecting women and others are in states that are violating their rights. What the issue was before the Supreme Court yesterday involved whether states have the right to protect women's equal opportunities on the playing field. So, it's the 27 states and whether states can proactively do the right thing. In terms of the 23 states, we heard at oral arguments some discussion about the justices kind of thinking ahead what comes next and how will this ruling play out in those other cases as well.

And in terms of the two states, what are the two laws that are being defended here?

Essentially, they are fairness and women's sports act or save women's sports act. Um they have different names, but they're all focused around ensuring that male athletes are not playing in the female category. And that can occur both at the collegiate level, but also we can think of high school and middle school levels. There are two laws that are in play, one from West Virginia, one from Idaho. We have the privilege of standing alongside the West Virginia and Idaho attorneys general as they defended their laws. But we also represent three female athletes in these cases. And two of those athletes had to play uh multiple times or had to run against a male athlete multiple times.

And that male athlete actually took the Big Sky Championship away from another deserving female athlete. We also represent Laney Armistad out of West Virginia who um went to school on a scholarship and under Title N there are a finite number of scholarships that you can get. And so every time one of those scholarships goes to a man in the women's category, a deserving woman doesn't get that scholarship.

Right. So let's get to the highlights from Tuesday. A lot went on. We said at the top of the show, a lot of oral arguments don't go viral, but that's not the case for what we heard on Tuesday. A lot of moments really made the rounds online. What were some of the moments that you felt really defined Tuesday's session?

First and foremost, it was just how the ACLU was running away from their own arguments and that we've been litigating in the past 10 years. They are scrambling as fast as they can um because they don't make sense. And even the lower court decision below out of the fourth circuit court of appeals in the in the West Virginia case, they basically acknowledged the fourth circuit got that wrong. They didn't even try to defend it. They also refused to define what sex is. And if you're unwilling to define what sex is, it makes it awfully hard to prove sex discrimination, which is what these arguments hinge on.

Right. I want to tee up that moment. It actually is pretty remarkable. You can feel it in the courtroom. from a sense of of shock with the follow-ups from the justices.

We do not have a definition for the court. And we don't take issue with the we're not disputing the definition here. What we're saying is that the way it applies in practice is to exclude birthex males categorically from women's teams and that there's a subset of those birthex males where it doesn't make sense to do so according to the state's own interest. Well, how can you how can a court determine whether there's discrimination on the basis of sex without knowing what sex means?

You could almost hear a pin drop in the courtroom when the ACLU refused to acknowledge what a woman was, refused to define what a woman was. And it was a very important moment that Justice Alo took the advocates through. one to highlight the fact that they weren't willing to define it, but two, in certain parts of the argument, they actually did say, "We're not we're not challenging the difference between male and female." And so then Justice Alo took them through and said, "Well, then then essentially, what are you challenging? What is the issue?" Because the law protects against sex discrimination. and and in the end you you can hear the advocate say um that essentially they're the ones that are willing to engage in discrimination on the basis of gender identity because they're saying well it's good enough if you take testosterone suppressants and puberty blockers you should be treated

as a woman but if you selfidentify and you haven't taken those steps then you can't be treated even if you identify as the opposite sex. So, I think Justice Alo is highlighting in that exchange kind of the the inongruity of the arguments. You can't have it both ways.

Related to that, one of the moments that stood out to me was when the ACLU attorney acknowledged that it's not actually bigoted to recognize the differences between men and women. How do you see that in terms of legal arguments? Well, in court, the ACLU has acknowledged that they aren't going to call those of us who believe in the male and female categories as bigoted. But if you stood outside on the court steps like Daily Wire did, I'm sure that you were hearing some some names being called. We know what's going on in the public square, but the decorum of the court is such that you can't make those allegations. Justice Alto was right to bring it out and to call it out and to again just reaffirm that these categories mean something. Another interesting aspect of the case is that you know they essentially claim there should be special exemptions, special treatment rather than equal treatment.

And the equal protection clause requires equal treatment. And so I think you could hear Justice Alo getting into those questions to also demonstrate to the rest of the court that there is equal treatment here and that treatment is between the sexes which is what matters.

All right. suppose this school that has a boys let's say track team and a girls track team uh uh uh school has that and a student who uh has the genes and the reproductive system of a male and had those at birth and has never taken puberty blockers. never uh uh uh taken uh uh female hormones, never had any gender altering or affirming surgery says, "Nevertheless, I am a woman. That's who I am." C can the school say, "No, you cannot participate uh on the girls team."

So, sorry. So you're hyp just a birth sex male who has all the advantages of birth sex male hormones and can the school borrow him from the woman's team? Yes, they can.

But that person is that person not a woman in your understanding? If the person says I sincerely believe I a woman, I am in fact a woman.

Is that person not a woman? I I would respect their selfidentity in addressing the person. But in terms of the statute, I think the question is does that person have a sex-based biological advantage that's going to make it unfair for that person to be part of the women's team? And that that's the rationale for the regulation. And so that's the reason that's the way we'd be testing that hyper.

Well, that the reason I'm asking has to do with discrimination on the basis of transgender status. So what you are seem to be saying is yes, it is permissible for the school to discriminate on the basis of transgender status. There's great irony in that the ACLU just launched its campaign called More Than a Game, which is supposed to continue to push on resisting biological reality on the playing field. And it was clear that Justice Kavanaaugh understood what that meant in the courtroom as he laid out for the advocates that this is essentially a zero- sum game. And it's not just about trophies or podium spots, but about whether girls can even make the team, whether they even get on the roster, and how much that matters to them. We have it's kind of a zero sum game for a lot of teams. Um and uh someone who tries out and makes it uh who is a transgender girl uh will bump from the starting lineup from playing

time from the team from the all league and those things matter to people big time. Uh we'll bump someone else. And so one way to resolve it as you say is the facts. try to figure out is there really a competitive advantage. I think we're going to get a lot scientific uncertainty about that. A lot of debate about that a lot of different district courts. The other way on the law, one way on the law is okay. Well, sex in Title 9 and in Javitz meant biological sex and it's up to Congress to adjust that going forward if they want given as you say and your co-consel said earlier, you know, people are learning more about this and maybe there really is no advantage. Well, if that's true and some states are operating under that basis, that's that's uh that's the way to go.

But for now at least the law says biological sex. And I think we have to recognize on both sides the zero sum. It's not like oh just add another person to the team. That's not how sports works. Uh it's it's someone else is going to get disadvantaged. So I just want you to address that.

That was the one moment where we heard something about the girls that are impacted and I was thrilled to hear it, but I hope that the rest of the justices understand what's at stake.

Now there was some concern raised from the right side of this argument. the pro- women's sports side about the language that the justices used left-wing gender identity language to be specific. Here's some of that impact.

I I understood you to say that it would be by checking testosterone levels because it would be okay to say to Justice Alto's hypothetical about the cisgender male who has taken no steps and who is now trans to exclude that person. All the scientific evidence showed that there's no difference between cisgender girls um and trans girls. I know there's a fight about

for uh cisgender girls they can play consistent with their gender identity. For transgender girls they can't.

What did you see there? Were they trying to present the arguments in the language of the ACLU to sort of be fair or was this really the court buying into some of this gender identity language?

I've sat through a lot of arguments. We've had, you know, 20 cases before the court in the last 10 years. And I have to say that was probably one of only maybe two times that I have been deeply disturbed by some of what I heard. And I'm not going to speculate as to why the justices were using the left's language, but it was ideologically loaded. Um, and and they may be trying to just make sure that they the those who are in the courtroom feel like they are respected and getting, you know, fair treatment, but that's a the court is a court of precision. It's a court of words. And so when when you refer to a cisgender girl as if that's something different than a girl, um I think that that sort of gives away gives away the argument in some ways. We have to get back to a place where we are looking at men and women.

And and if we're talking about those who identify as the opposite sex, then we say that it's men identifying as women. But there's no such thing as a cisgender girl and there's no such thing as a transgender girl. Like you said, in the end, you're seeding the entire argument if you seed the language, though maybe we shouldn't read too much into this. That said, the questions from the judges were clearly leaning very heavily to the pro- women's sports side. Were there any other patterns that you witnessed on Tuesday that stood out to you?

I wouldn't read too much into the language, but I do think that it's important we continue to insist on biologically corre correct terms. And what I didn't hear in the courtroom that really just struck me as being so disappointing, I I didn't hear about the women. And actually, it didn't disappoint me, it angered me. Um, I wanted that. It's probably the first time I wanted to stand up and shout, "What about the women?" Not just the women in this case, but the male athlete in West Virginia displaced 423 girls,00 times and took 57 medals away from them.

Five girls protested from another team and in their protest they were punished by their school. Their school didn't stand up for them. And then of course we have Adelaide Cross who was on the team and suffered sexual harassment and even threats in the locker room. And we have the UN study that says 900 medals were taken um you know in in competition as well. So there was so much focus on, you know, what the ACLU was saying, a boy who identifies as a girl who wants to play sports, but no focus on the rights of women and we should not have to surrender our rights because a male is identifying as a woman.

What about particularly from the progressive side, the left-wing side of the court? Were there any questions from that side that you were encouraged by in terms of the pro-women arguments? I think there was general consensus that males have an advantage over women. Um, and so I was encouraged that Justice Kagan, as an example, was grappling with what the argument was of the ACLU in terms of under the equal protection clause, how they would actually prove without completely messing up the constitutional standards that are already in place.

We often say as applied challenges are the preferred mode of constitutional inter adjudication. Uh certainly we have not erected like bars to them in any other area as far as I understand it. Um and then in equal protection law we say all the time things like people need to be treated as individuals and not as just as members of a group. And I'm wondering whether both of those principles don't suggest that any bar on equal protection a as applied equal protection challenges is is just wrong is off. Um, and then the second thing I want you to do after you do that is is assume for me that there is such a thing

and to tell me how in your view uh an as applied equal protection challenge ought to work in this case.

Essentially what the ACLU is arguing under under the constitutional argument is for an individualized analysis and an individualized level of scrutiny that requires a perfect fit. So, I don't want to go too deep in the weeds on that, but that would be impossible. That would mean every time the state passes a law, if someone could demonstrate that the reason for that law doesn't apply to them, they likely would have a constitutional argument under the equal protection clause, which is, you know, absolutely crazy.

Yeah. Wouldn't this ultimately require genetic testing and all kinds of rigorous ways of assessing somebody's particular attributes and qualifications at any given moment? Is that what this would devolve into? Yes, because they are saying you take in into account all of these different attributes and of course it it muddles the meaning of sex. If if it's impossible to define sex, we need to understand that's going to affect a whole host of laws and frankly all of Western civilization um if we are denying the created order and biological truth and the fact that there are legitimate differences between men and women. Um, and that's truly what's at trial in this case is whether those differences can be taken into account by states. The a yes that they can.

To wrap up here, you mentioned that the girls that are at the center of these cases were not mentioned on Tuesday. So, let's close out by talking about them. You've been in close contact with them. How did they respond to the events of Tuesday?

They were thrilled. We had a wonderful gayla uh that you were at even um where we brought the whole movement together to just celebrate what had happened and the milestone that was created and giving them a chance and we had probably three dozen girls who came to the stage who were litigants in the case in different cases along the way who have stood for their rights and they have suffered as a result not just on cancellation or censorship but real tangible penalties. I think they were disappointed not to hear more about th those who were experiencing this in the courtroom, but outside the courtroom, they did everything they could to have their voices heard.

Yeah, it was truly powerful to see all of them on stage together. Took a lot of courage for them to speak out and now we have the Supreme Court finally considering their arguments. Kristen, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you. That was Kristen Wagner, president and CEO of Alliance Defending Freedom. And this has been a legal wire edition of Morning Wire.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Supreme Court Cases That Could Redefine Women’s Sports"?

John Bickley (Host), Kristen Wagner (Guest).

What is "The Supreme Court Cases That Could Redefine Women’s Sports" about?

The text discusses two critical Supreme Court cases, ACLU vs. West Virginia and Idaho's Little vs. Hickox, which address whether states can restrict male athletes from competing in women's sports to protect the rights of female competitors. The arguments highlight the tension between pro-transgender rights advocates and proponents of women's sports, focusing on issues of discrimination, the…

What is mentioned in this Morning Wire episode?

17 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including women's sports, Alliance Defending Freedom, Kristen Waggoner, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), transgender, Justice Samuel Alito. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Supreme Court Cases That Could Redefine Women’s Sports"?

The episode runs 22 min; the transcript is about 3,919 words in 49 timestamped sections.

More from Morning Wire

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.