Transcript

The Story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding | MFM 511

From My Favorite Murder · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 8 min · 13,091 words · 125 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding | MFM 511", an episode of My Favorite Murder published December 24, 2025 (1 h 8 min, about 13,091 words). It mentions 14 people, works and ideas, including Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan, 1994 Winter Olympics, Beth's Dead, My Favorite Murder.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Beth's Dead, Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgariff, My Favorite Murder
  2. – 20:00: Tonya Harding, My Favorite Murder, Nancy Kerrigan, ESPN 30 for 30
  3. – 30:00: Tonya Harding
  4. – 40:00: Reebok
  5. – 50:00: Michelle Kwan, Tonya Harding
  6. – 1:00:00: Lillehammer, Nancy Kerrigan
  7. – 1:08:13: Dancing with the Stars, Nancy Kerrigan, Tonya Harding

Notable quotes from "The Story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding | MFM 511"

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

Concepts & topics

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

Lives where you love me. You. Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hardstark. That's Karen Kilgariff. And this is. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Da da da da da da da I didn't I just had caffeine, so I'm ready to fucking go. We are about to start our senior honor choir, and you are going to be the subject of it. Happy holidays everyone. Are you having fun. Or are you stuck at the house you grew up in, with the people you grew. Up with? What kind of quilt. Is on you right now? Is it? Did your great aunt make it for you?

Ever been washed? Just. Is it the cat's favorite quilt? Because it's not like cat pee. Yeah. Yes it does. That means it's Christmas cheer. Have that when someone comes over and they, like, cuddle up with a pillow and you don't want to say to them. Like, that's the dog's pillow. Hahaha. That rabbit. Oh my God, that has all the time. You know what's funny is I just hope no one ever goes and sits down on my couch, like independently because I'm like, yeah, you're not gonna do. Just that is what you're saying. They're all over yourself.

I mean, you can like. That's exactly where she puts her butthole. Well, I can't tell you that now. Because you're putting your butthole. They're softening your butthole. Oh my dog. Oh! Ha ha ha ha! Jesus Christ, that's the theme. For this holiday. Season. Amen. Stop it. Okay. Oh, we do have speaking of holiday season, we like ask people how they were giving. Back in the newsletter. Yeah. Yes. And you've got some anecdotes. I do because we're doing our December donation thing and I have a funny one if you want to hear it. Yes, please.

I'm giving back this season whole lot of Catholic daughter shit. I usually try. To do my holiday giving to strangers, folks with deep needs I've never faced. But this year, I find those closest to me need a hand in ways only someone close is really equipped for. I'm the never married, childless adult daughter in my family, and we're all entering the holiday season for the first time without my dad. Who died just after New Year's 2025. Sorry, my mom's 80, frail and alone for the first time since a one year period in the early 70s between her leaving the convent and.

Convent. Between leaving the convent and meeting my dad on a beach in new Jersey. How he's leaving. Covet. Because I want her to have actually a. A Satan worshiper. She covets that story. Okay, so the nun left the convent, went to the beach, and picked up a man. Yeah, I love it and never left his side. No. My sister has a years long immune condition that can make chasing after her grammar school age little boys a real uphill climb. So my spring, summer and holiday giving is it shifts at a food bank or checks to charities.

It's lugging in the cat litter for mom's pets, sorting her recyclables every week and joining her for an occasional menthol. Book and joining. Her for an occasional menthol light. Kitchen stools by the window while we watch Wheel of Fortune. Oh, that sounds amazing. That is the dream. Yeah. Or figure skating competitions. Yeah. It's listening to my nephews bitching about the nature walks. I march them on, let my sister nap in the afternoon, and my stumbling through Impenetrably complex Pokemon battles so she can go out and get a massage.

Yeah, I can mope a little like I'm the Cinderella and all this, but your question about how we're arguing back allows me to make a case. I may actually be more like a luminous angel or Tinkerbell in all of this. That's right. At least that's how I'll think about it next time I kneel down, scooping a cat box for someone I love. E in Oregon. Eat! What a beautiful. Thank you for sending that in. And what a beautiful sentiment. And, because that is everything to the people you love the most. So what a donation to give. Yeah. You can.

There's always something you could do, even if you don't think you have the means. Yeah. For example, when I'm home with my father on the over the holidays and I get myself, coffee from usually Peet's coffee downtown. Yeah. Have it delivered to the house because it's seven in the morning. I'll get him a lemon loaf. Oh, Karen, I. Get him a lemon loaf. I won't make him get his own. Just for Christmas or the whole year. Just for cookies. Oh, God. Yeah. Okay. Don't you don't you don't want to spoil. Them, like, calm down.

Calm. Down. Jim. Dad, that's your lemon loaf. So I don't know what else you want from me. Did I tell you on this podcast really the only time that counts? Yeah, that when I came home from Thanksgiving, when I drove home, it was 12 hours in the car. Yeah, we talked about it. God damn. As I talked about it with Ben, it's like it was so hard to hear. So we like we discussed it. It's. I drove back down and then back up. No, I know. I just still can't get over it, but also nothing else has happened to me since that. Since that time, I've actually.

That's a good segue. I have a podcast in case you're driving 12 hours. Oh perfect. Oh, you want to leave your life for a minute? Your head? I binge this podcast in 26 hours. It's ten episodes and I binge it within a little over a day. Okay? It's so fucking good. Okay. It's called Beth's dead. So my friend Elizabeth Lame, she's been a podcaster since 2010, so she's like, OG has always done it with her husband Andy Rosen. She's the sweetest person. And they stopped podcasting suddenly out of nowhere because they had a really awful experience with a listener.

Oh no. And so they told their friend Monica Padman from Armchair Expert about it. And Monica, as podcasters do, said, let's make a podcast about it. Oh, so it's ten episodes called Beth's Dead about. They had to quit podcasting because they were so afraid for their lives. But the whole podcast, it's almost like they're. Opening it back up and looking into it, and Monica's kind of leading them along the way, like find out what happened. Yeah. It does not end the way you think it's going to end. It's actually kind of heartwarming. What?

So really? Yeah, I mean, I don't want to spoil it, but I'll use the term catfishing and I'll just throw it out there because I know you love a good catfishing story. I mean, I just, I, I think it's from being too old to be on like the apps and really a part of the, the real social part of the internet. Do you have. FOMO that being catfished. A little bit? I just never I wasn't picked even to be catfish. They didn't know how to get a hold of me. Me girl. What it comes to catfish, I really am. I really a weed? I'm trying to. Okay, I'm following that now.

Okay? Beth's dead. I love it. You just can't. Okay. Down. Put it down. Yeah. Put it down. Of of your ears I that's a really cool one too, because it's like that. It deserves to be explained or like gone into. Yeah. But you know they say like, well and I don't know anything about it, but it's like, usually you're not supposed to give those things air. And they made a whole fucking series about it. But it's also like explores parasocial relationships. So she was like telling me that I should listen just as like a cautionary tale, really. Right.

But I did all I do all of it wrong. Yes. I mean, it's so hard is. And also it isn't the same as, I don't know, it's just such a weird, different time. It's like there need to be updated rules for this time lutely. And it was 2015, so she kind of. And she's such a sweetheart. She didn't really write. No. Yeah. The relationship isn't what you think it's going to be. And oh it's fucking gnarly. Okay. We all have to listen to Beth's dead. Yeah. And really process some stuff. Yeah, well, I got reminded by, our writer Alison and our producer Molly as a fun news update for the Parlee overpass, which was featured in that.

I talked about it in episode 250. Look Whose Passing, which later became an MFM animated. Claire the bossy dear. Yes. And it was all about that. They built this overpass so that animals could basically not be in the road anymore. And Utah State University, because it happened in Utah, the Division of Wildlife Resources and Transportation, I guess. Got a lot. Of them. Right. Love. There were. There were oh. Those bitches are so real. I got it. But basically the overpass is going so good. 77% reduction in wildlife vehicle collisions.

Wow. A $15 million cost benefit over the bridge's lifetime. And what their favorite finding is most successfully crossed 100% of the time. You never missed a. Moose because the moose will kill. You if you fucking hit it with your car, too. Oh yeah, like that's deadly. It is. It's not. Like, yeah, no. Running over a squirrel. Not that I'm condoning that, but like. You know, although they, they can be pretty aggressive. So let's be honest. They would if I wanted that acorn. You didn't even ask me if it's my front yard.

Oh my God, there's a squirrel rotting in our backyard and we're not doing anything about it. Oh I. Do a lot of, like, animal stories for my backyard. Yeah. It sounds like a palatial, gorgeous tropical jungle. It's not. But a lot happening. Yeah. Should we do our network? Yeah. Highlights. Yeah. So we have a podcast network. And this holiday season, we'd love for you to listen to some podcasts on it. While we have you here. Just a quick reminder. Our newest podcast, Grief Recess, a legal podcast with Michael Foot and Melissa Branch, which, by the way, such a delightful.

You want to talk about parasocial relationship? I just want to hang out and talk to those guys or listen to them talking all day long. Seriously, if you haven't listened to it, it kind of has a little bit of everything. They're addressing these horrifying things that are happening in our world, right now. But it would light in a lighthearted way, but also but also a call to action. Put a call to action, but then slay boots down all the things you want. Yeah, but just to remind you, they are on YouTube because it is a podcast, but it's a video podcast as well.

So every single episode comes out on video. You can watch Michael and Melissa as well as listen to them. So please go over to their YouTube page, youtube.com slash at brief recess and like, subscribe, interact, do all the things that, let people know that you like something, but also enjoy a video podcast. Yeah, it's the future. You're so young and with it. And if you're craving more content over the holidays, now is the time to join the fan cult at Fan Cult super cast.com. You'll get every episode of My Favorite Murder ad free, plus exclusive audio and video, so much video content and more.

And if that doesn't satisfy you, then follow my favorite murder on Instagram and on TikTok. We're on TikTok too, and make sure you don't miss any of our clips, or our polls, or our special announcements and all the other things. So we've been over there. Blowing up social media lately because Shannon, our social media manager, has been just fucking working her butt off and killing it. Shannon McKinley. That's right. Please, please follow us. She's a legend. And for our last minute holiday. Shoppers, don't worry, we've got you.

The exactly right store has easy gift options that don't require express shipping. Head to exactly right store.com to shop gift cards or sign up for the fan cult for someone you love@fan.supercars.com. That's right, great gift. It's a really good gift. And you can get subscriptions for three, 6 or 12 months depending on how much you like the person you're buying it. For and like how long you give me my life, I don't know, so let's just try. Three months. Yeah, just do three months and see how how you do how I decide you do what's right.

Oh, also, it's time for another December donation. Like this part. Every December we like to spend the month giving to groups, doing life changing work here in the United States and of course, around the world. So today we're donating $10,000 to World Central Kitchen, led by Chef Jose Andrés. They provide meals to communities in crisis, getting food to people quickly after natural disasters, conflicts and humanitarian emergencies. Their mission is to use the power of food to heal, support and rebuild communities when they need it the most.

In 2024, World Central Kitchen supported families impacted by conflict and disasters in 20 countries, providing over 109 million meals. So if you like to join us in supporting their work, head to work.org. And if donating isn't your thing right now, you can also explore volunteer opportunities at wclk.org/volunteer. So yeah, December donations. Boom! And now I get a podcast at you. It is a solo show. Time for you to do your Christmas thang. Okay. And this story is just so into the holiday spirit okay. No it's not.

Oh, but it's good. Okay. And it's fun and I'm excited to tell you about it. Okay. But you're going to know about it because this is a story that if you were alive and at least semi-conscious during the 90s, you vividly remember this story. It was a huge media sensation, the way only 90s media could do, tactless and vulgar and in your fucking face constantly. When they ban smoking. Now. So now we know what was important to you about the whole. Story about. I just remember being like, it's never going to. Work, right? Never that no one's ever going to do this.

Smoking or on. And Coco's you have to. Go goes to am I, we used to. Smoke in Denny's. That's what that's the new question of how old are you now? Have you ever had a cigaret in Denny's? Yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah. No. Okay, so it's January 6th, 1994, and it will be the country's most infamous January 6th for the next 17 years. Then there. Then the. Then there will be one that you can't be. That's right. We're at the Cobo Arena in Detroit, Michigan. A day before the U.S. Figure Skating Championships, and we all know what's about to happen.

Yes we do. This is the story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding. It was such a wild like story. It was huge. And it was on the cover of, like, every magazine. People wouldn't shut up about it. Yeah, it was one of the biggest fucking stories of the 90s. So good. You don't know about it yet. You should. The main sources for the story are an essay in The Believer by Sarah Marshall, and she actually hosts a podcast You're Wrong About, which is. Super good. Oh yeah, that's a good podcast. And the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary called The Price of Gold.

Remember when I called it 30 by 30 and everyone got mad? No one got mad. I just love how often we I've done that. Or just. Like, you know, on 30 by 30 people, like. It's 30 for 30. It's it's like we did a whole thank you of when we were in people magazine. And like, we shared a page with some band and I said the name wrong. Oh, yeah. Like it's actually band it foot. No. Okay. My favorite murder. Or. We're going to get it wrong. Yeah essentially. That's right. All right. So we all know this part. I think there's some people that weren't born for like ten years.

But there's also just like lately with the way things are going remind us of the good times. Yeah. I was thinking about it. It's like there's there's a possibility a lot of listeners who hadn't been born yet. But is it possible that some listeners parents hadn't been born yet if. Let's not talk about that. Okay. Babies have a babies, all right. These babies. So Nancy Kerrigan is practicing her routine for the US championships. Nancy, along with several other American skaters, most notably Tonya Harding, is vying for a spot on the Olympic team.

She'll need to place first at this, championship or maybe second to in order to go. So it's a big deal now. Nancy's America's sweetheart in the only way Olympic hopefuls can be like, it's just such a thing that we put on them. Like, we need you to be perfect and represent our country exactly how we want you to. Yeah. Seems like a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure. And also, especially in ice skating, I think there's not a lot of people that can do it unless they have a they have money. That's right. Yeah. Yes.

So Nancy is pretty and elegant and she's talented but humble and is the quintessential ice princess at the public and ice skating judges root for. So she is that quintessential beautiful ice skater, a camera crews in the rink filming her practice. When she finishes, Nancy walks off the ice and disappears through a black curtain to walk through a hallway to the locker rooms. Her coaches, Eva and Mary Scott Gold, who are married, are nearby, finishing up a conversation with some friends. And then they're going to follow Nancy out to the locker rooms.

But before they can do that, they hear a blood curdling shriek coming from the hallway. They run through the curtain to see Nancy crumpled in a heap on the ground. I mean, I'll never forget this video. I'll never forget the sound of her voice. Yeah. She's gripping her knee and sobbing, and the camera crew runs out, too. They start running, and the video of Nancy on the floor in her pretty white costume bawling will become infamous, particularly that she's yelling over and over again, desperately asking why, why, why?

I'll never forget it. Yeah, it was just why? Why would anything bad happen to me? So how do you make it? Oh my God. Well, here's the thing. As you were saying that, and I've never thought about this before. I'm like, well, of course, because it's the Olympics. There's camera crews everywhere, but it is so, like weirdly perfect. The idea that they did this there. Yeah. Where everything even back then would be recorded and yeah like Found out is it's such a crazy plan. It's really stupid. It's a stupid plan and it falls apart quickly.

But it's funny that like so we all have preconceived notions of this story. Like Nancy is the victim, but nobody but we don't like her for whatever reason. Tonya, you know you're on her side for some reason, even though she's very unlikable in a lot of ways, and it's really hard to root for her, especially like in her own interviews. Yes. But, you know, it's been shaped by the media or our view. And also, we've all been raised to hate women so much that we can figure out a way to hate any woman. You don't have to shoot.

You can be the victim, you could be the perpetrator, you could be whatever. And that's how we do it to women. Whereas, like, they'll be some dude standing there and you're just like, I don't know, he's fine. You're like, I hate her. I don't. Like the way she was. Crying for being hit in. The fucking knee. I didn't like the way she was wailing and pain. That bothers me. It's stuck up the way she was wailing in pain. So. Yeah. So it's fucked up. And she's just purely an innocent victim. She won't give a lot of interviews about this.

She just tries to move on with her life. So we kind of. Can you imagine how many times they've asked her to have it? Just like, for 50 years? Yeah. It wasn't 50. Years. No, it feels like it, though. 30. 30. So it comes out that a large, unknown man in a leather jacket is just snuck up out of nowhere and whacked her one time in the leg with a long metal object. And every Scott for the husband and the husband and wife coach team that coaches Nancy looks up to see this man crashing through a locked glass door of the arena.

Oh, like it's locked. So have you seen the movie I, Tonya? I have, but I don't remember this part. I don't know if this actually happens, but in the movie he smashes is Farhad through the glass because the door is, like, bolted shut, lock shut. But we don't I don't know if that happened, but somehow he smashes the window and, like, bolts out. So it's first of all, like, not silent. Dude, you planned this. Plan an exit. You plan an exit. That's not chained and locked, right? And also, it's the Olympics, so you're not going to have the easiest in ins and outs and around the practice area.

Right? So everyone looks for him and no one can find him. And they try to chase him, but they lose him. But still Avi will wind up saying to his wife Mary that night and surprises her that he suspects Nancy's main competitor, Tonya Harding, has something to do with the attack. Oh, immediately. Immediately. Tonya and Nancy are both 24 years old, and they both come from working class backgrounds on opposite sides of the country. So Nancy is born in 1969 and grows up in Stoneham, Massachusetts. Her dad, Danielle, is a welder and her mom, Brenda, is a stay at home mom, and Brenda is legally blind.

Having lost most of her vision from a virus. She got when Nancy was a baby. Oh my God, yeah. So Nancy has two brothers who play hockey, and while the family's not at all wealthy, once Nancy shows an aptitude for figure skating around the time she's eight years old, they put everything into it. And as you said, professional ice skating is not fucking cheap. It's almost like horseback riding to me where it's just like there's so many things you have to buy. Yeah, you have to buy ice time, coat you like, spend money to be on the ice coaching costumes.

Yeah, all of that shit. Those skates we bought me and Laura bought Nora because Nora got into ice skating. It was really cute. She was pretty good at it. But we bought her for Christmas of the most beautiful pair of ice skates. And she grew out of them within, like, nine months. Like she needed another pair where I was like. How much were they. There? I can't remember, yeah, but it was like that kind of thing where you're just like, oh yeah, they're kids, right? And you have to do that over and over their whole career.

My kid would sit at home. Yeah. Nancy's dad at times works three jobs to afford Nancy's coaching costumes and ice time. Why didn't they tell this story when it happened? Now I feel so guilty. No, I thought she was rich. She was not rich. I just assumed she just. You know what? She was rich in which I think a lot of people don't give enough credit for, is having a stable family. And that's a privilege in itself. And, you know, she had that. And that's great and good for her. And it doesn't even seem like there was an actual rivalry between Tonya and Nancy.

It was just that Nancy was her biggest competition. So Nancy had nothing to fucking do with this. Yeah right. It's very that's a very meaningful thing about the family thing. That's very true, because it was almost like we're all going to pitch in to make this happen, right? Like they all traveled together to her competitions, even her brothers. She stayed in the same hotel room with her parents. You know, it's just like that. But I don't want to stay in a hotel room with my parents, I never. Have. That's not fun at all. No.

And at one point, her dad takes a job driving the Zamboni at the rink in exchange for Nancy's ice time. So they're dedicated. They don't have tremendous means, but it's clearly a very loving and very stable household. And I feel so good. That's what I kind to do. On the other side of the country, in Portland, Oregon, which it's like rural Portland, Oregon, this is not like Portland hipster. It's not Portland, where. Now it's like you own a gun and you go hunting Portland, you know? And so there, Tonya Harding is born into tougher circumstances.

Tonya's dad, Albert, works odd jobs and suffers from various health problems, which stop him from being able to work at times. Her mother, Lavona, played by Allison Janney. Epic. Yeah, epically. I mean, unbelievable. So incredibly good. And I, Tonya, that it's uncomfortable. Yeah. She works as a waitress and the family's home and financial situation is chaotic. Yeah. And I can I just say like some 30 years later, we're just now starting to learn about how chaos and poverty in childhood can lead to subsequent cognitive and social development issues, impair the development of executive function in children.

It changes the child's brain structure, even which can lead to anxiety and difficulties with social skills, mental health issues, etc.. Look it up and go to therapy. Everyone. But and it's not an excuse. It's just kind of to say where her head was. Yeah. You know. Right. So when Tonya's three years old, a new mall opens up nearby. And I want to say the name of it because I love it, it's the Clackamas Town Center. I don't know why I fucking love that word. I've been there. Clackamas. They have an ice skating rink right and right in it.

That's what I was going to say. Sorry, I keep jumping you. I know. I'm trying to tell this story. Probably better than I do. It has a skating rink right in the very center of it. And somehow live on a finds the money to get Tonya skating lessons. And it's clear from the very beginning that she is a supremely talented skater and athlete from three years old. Well, I mean, that's the thing, because Nora was good at it, too. She was at a friend's birthday party at. The. Charles, Schultz Snoopy ice rink. And someone. Say, Rosa. Hey.

And they're just like, she's she's very good at this and likes it a lot. So my sister's like. I mean, it was it's really fun. But the dedication you have to sit in the most freezing room and just watch your kids been in circles. Yeah. If you're going to have a. Yeah, it's not the most comfortable, but I didn't even think about it. For the parents, it's just like. You're. A California. Parent, right? Just like, I don't know, isn't it hot outside? You're not like. A lawn chair with a beer. It's like, oh, but. Worst possible fact that, like Nancy's parents, Lavona does as much as she can to fun Tonya skating.

But it's harder for her. And she also puts a lot of pressure on Tonya. As we see in the movie, most people seem to come to the conclusion that ice skating will be Tonya's only shot at a more comfortable life than the one she was born into. It's like this or nothing, and it seems like they share that with her. This growing child. Yeah, that's this is it. You better fucking. You better get this done for us. Right? And look how fucking hard your mom is working to make it happen. Just a lot of fucking pressure. When when you.

Have to win for one of my spending my money on. Right. We're all sacrificing for you. Get out there now. Have fun with it. You're not. Smiling enough. Do your dance to want to be starting some. I mean, Jesus Christ, what we do to children? This country is so crazy. Oh not. Me. Well, we did it for a little bit. It's true. She got second place one time. Wow. I know, it was really exciting. No, I mean the pressure part. Yeah, that's the one benefit usually of not being not being the people that. Have all those things right is.

You get to sidestep a lot of that. I think my parents were like, just get passing grades and like, you don't. That's okay. Too. Yeah, just. Go, just go. And if you don't just graduate high. School and they did and you. Did, you gave them everything they asked for and more. That's right. No pressure. Okay. So even in real time, it's understood by Tonya's coaches and skating companions that her circumstances are extremely difficult and very different from the typical figure skater. When she's 11, her friend witnesses Lavona hitting Tonya repeatedly in the rink's bathroom with a hairbrush.

Just being abusive. Now the friend is shocked and horrified by this and tells the coach that she wants to report Tonya's mom to CPS. It's bad ass little 11 year old. Yeah, and the coach says that it would end Tonya's skating career forever if they reported her right. Which is so sad because it's like maybe it would have made you have a better life, even though skating isn't involved in it anymore. You know what I mean? It's yeah. Not that that and also how much of the skating was her choice at that point. Right. Yeah.

A few years later this friend actually winds up making like a little documentary about Tonya. By then Tonya's 15 and she very frankly talks about her difficult home life. Tonya's mother participates in the documentary and she's wearing a fur coat with a green parrot perched on her shoulder, just like in the movie. Later, Tonya will also say that she was sexually abused as a teenager by several people in her life, and it does seem like there could have been a lack of protection in the environment she grew up in. It doesn't. It's so hard because you can't believe everything.

She's this, this woman says. But there are definitely parts of it that are true. And you have to believe. Yeah. So you know. Well, and. She's an unreliable narrator. Yes, of. Course, but she's not lying about everything. No. And also, if you're if you're if you have the kind of mom that'll beat you with a brush in a bathroom in front of people, then there isn't a lot of protection going on. It's easy to say, this is definitely not happening. It's could it be worse at home? Of course. Yeah. So the part of ice skating that most appeals to Tonya is the athleticism.

And we should talk about what she looked like for people who don't know, like she was just so quintessentially 90s. She look like she burned her eyeliner with a match to get it moving right on her. I which is like a redhead, but she had a very strong. I should also bleach her hair like 90s blond. Yeah. And like the 90s was kind of still the 80s when it came to style. So think of that. Like big poofy bangs. Poofy, frizzy big hair. Yeah. Yeah. Crimped and you know. Yeah. But then she had cut. She looked like an Irish girl to me. Yeah.

She definitely looked like the photo that you posted of yourself in high school. Like you would have been friends with her. Yes absolutely. She would have been one of Karen's, like smoking in the girls bathroom. Friends. My mom would be like, I don't know if you should go to Tanya. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. She definitely looks like she smelled like those menthol cigarets we were talking about. Totally. Right. Like a Kelly Bundy. Yeah. So, she loves the athleticism of it. She can do the grace and the artistry, blah, blah, blah, but that's not what comes naturally to her.

What comes naturally. What she wants to do is land the most difficult tricks possible. She kind of is a bad she's not kind of. She's a badass in this way of like, I if I'm going to do this, I want to be the fucking best at it and I want to do it, you know, in a way that no one else can. Yeah. And I know everyone out there doesn't think I can do it, so I'm going to fucking show them and then some so no one can deny it. Such good revenge. Oh it's like that's the best motivation is when someone's like, oh, you don't think I can do that?

Yeah, let me go ahead. And I'm already brave enough to be able to ice skate, which I. Yeah. Like I was watching hockey the other day and I'm just like, how are they doing that? I have ice skating maybe once or twice in my life, and I. It's it's truly witchcraft. And then she's like, I'm not scared. Not only not to ice skate, but like of anything. So here I'll just do the thing that makes people cheer, right? The trick she wants to land to prove herself to everyone takes a huge amount of strength and power. And so, as Tonya progresses on the ice skating circuit, this athleticism and power becomes her calling card.

So remember back then, they used to always make fun of how big her thighs were? Like, that was a big fucking joke. Late night joke back then is how? Because ice skaters are so slim and long and lank, but they also have to be so fucking strong to lift their bodies off of the fucking ice and twirl it like that takes so much strength. Yeah, but also, don't look like it. It's just this, like, horrible thing that we, we do to women of, you know. Here's the rules you don't get now you also have to go backwards and in high heels, take the stuff. Exactly.

And so while she's known for these like athletic moves and she's like willing to try things that other ice skaters won't, Nancy becomes known for her grace and her spins and her elegant lines. So they're very different, but they are competitors directly. And it also seems like the judges are harder on Tonya because she doesn't quite fit that elegant mold of what a figure skater supposed to be. There's a lot of it's fucked up. Like the amount of the stuff I've been doing. Researching this makes me, like, angry. There's a lot of wiggle room and subjectivity in scoring ice skating, and it's fair to say that some of that subjectivity comes into play when the judges look at Tonya, for instance, she's criticized by a judge for her costume that she made herself because she can't afford the $5,000, one time, you know, competition outfit.

It's that sort of thing. But she also does seem like a kind of virtual pick muse. She's like, did wild like she ice skate. It's a wild thing. Just like rock and roll. She'll do. And like, they don't fucking like that. Yeah. And so the scores are not technical completely. They're also just completely subjective. Well, and I think there was a time where we all believed it was objective and so fair and all about scoring or whatever. And then it's like. And then if you tracked in any way the Williams sisters coming into tennis.

Right. And the way there was always a problem and it was always a thing and just like, yeah, there's there's a lot of people in place there that are making that are in charge of decision making and in charge of like the culture, totally the agreed upon culture, like. The deck is stacked against you from day one because you. Yeah, I mean, it's fucked up. And so while Tonya has to scrap for everything she gets, she gets no handouts. People just seem to want to give Nancy things. Vera Wang starts designing her costumes because she's such a fan.

She gets lucrative endorsement deals. I totally remember the Campbell Soup commercial. Yeah. Like she's actually on the ice. No, she's like sipping, closing her eyes and sipping some chicken noodle soup off the ice. Because she's cold, you know, it's oh, it's cold. On the ice. And she just closes her eyes. And, I mean, she really did look like any girl that would be in 17 magazine. Totally. So it was like she had it all kind of there anyway. Yeah. And I just. I just remember her high pony. Yes. The curly hair, the high pony.

She was really pretty. And I think that they also liked that she wasn't like, it's such a contradiction. They like that she wasn't this wealthy. You know, wasp who was like a princess like that. She was from lower, but not Tonya's, you know. No, no, no, you can do that. But you can't do it this way. You can be from the lower classes, but you have to be pretty while you do it right and humble. You can't. You have to be thin, thin. And you have to be humble about it and not like, think that you are owed anything. It's. Yeah, it's just such a contradiction.

She gets, endorsements from Reebok. So when people tell this story, there's always this focus on Nancy being the beautiful ice princess. And talking of being the more ugly duckling with bad costumes and bad hair, and it does seem like there compared a lot, they're kind of each other's biggest competitors, but it doesn't seem like they have any animosity towards each other. And Nancy's doing nothing to antagonize Tonya. There's like, that story's overblown that they have like a feud because it's not. Even so, when Tonya's 15 years old, she meets a 17 year old mustachioed dude named Jeff Galilee who's played by Sebastian Stan.

Yes, a classic classic. And they fall in love. It's her first ever boyfriend because she's all she does. Escape yes you. Know, and get yelled at by her mother. Right? And she had dropped out of high school so she could skate like so. She has nothing else in her life. So she meets this older guy and he has a car and he's a job, and she's like, smitten completely by him. Immediately. The two also when you're 15. Sorry to interrupt, but when you're 15, doesn't it feel like that's when you fall in love the hardest of your whole life?

Oh my. Gosh. Like, you kind of truly lose your mind. The hormones, the like, everything that. Oh God no. It's it's it's bad. So bad. It's like soul crushing because you think it's the most important thing and it is the most important thing in the world at that moment. But it's the most important thing that you're doing with Jeff Gillooly, so. And no one can convince you otherwise, right? Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. It's so hard to be a teenager. And it's it's the worst. It's so bad you could not pay me to be a fucking teenager.

Oh my God. Now. The two move in together when Tonya is just 17 years old. And the way she tells the story, she was pretty much just desperate to get out of her mom's house. And this kind of seemed like the only way. Yeah. They get married in 1990 when Tong is 20 years old, and for a while, Jeff makes enough money to support them while Tonya keeps skating. And they're hoping she'll get those endorsement deals. Yeah, but Jeff is abusive, allegedly, which Tonya will later discuss. The relationship will always be rocky and on and off.

And like basically everything in Tonya's life, pretty unstable. The way Tonya describes it, Jeff was, quote, always saying the right things to get me back, and I'd be stupid enough to go back and get beat up again. And they show this and I, Tonya. And it's just it's just yeah, it's so dark. But also, she's not stupid. This is her life. Like, this is the way if you if that's been the pattern in your life. Yeah. You continue that pattern. Yeah. She was such a choice. She would say my mom loved me and she hit me. Yeah.

He said he loved me. And he hit me like that's what you learned? Yeah, it's really sad. And there's not really any. Like, she doesn't see any other options in her life. It's really fucking sad. Okay, so yeah, it does seem like she kind of internalizes this abuse and is kind of a victim blaming herself for that. Yeah. So it's not an excuse for her behavior, everything that happens to her. But it is context which I think is important. And so, while all this is going on, Nancy is living the way she always has, closely supported by her family, stayed in the same hotel room as her parents at competitions.

She lives with them, and she often describes her mother as her best friend, which, like, what a fucking privilege to have that in your life. Do you want to know? One of my earliest jokes? Yeah. It was based on some thing some famous person had said, and my mother's my best friend. And I said, mom, you're my best friend. And my mom went, well, you're not my best friend. Which literally she did. I could see that. And just like, God damn. Yeah. It's like she meant in, like, a tough love way. Like I'm your mother, not your friend.

She meant it like no one's best friend should be their mother. That's weird. Don't act like that. You don't get another best friend. Totally. So during the year after her marriage to Jeff, Tonya's doing her best skating of her life. It's 1991, and Tonya becomes the first American woman to land a triple axel in competition at the United States Championship, which is fucking huge. The triple axel has been this white whale for female skaters, figure skaters, because it involves launching yourself while facing forward, rotating three and a half times, then landing facing backwards, and it takes a huge amount of strength to get the necessary.

Height. To stay up there that long. Yeah, I mean, it is like not for the faint of heart. People don't even try it because it will be. You will be hurt from doing it. Eat ice as they say. Exactly. Just kidding on it. That's it. That sounds right. Up until now, Japanese skater name Midori Ito has been the only woman in the world to execute it until Tonya. As you said, that I knew I've heard of Midori Ito. And I'm like, how much ice skating did I? Yeah, I guess it was just the Olympics. They were big. Yeah, it was really big.

And it was like in people magazine and stuff. Exactly. Like we were obsessed with the I guess our children still obsessed with the Olympics. I don't know. I don't either, but we. Fucking. Were. Let's call the child hotline and see. And so this is also where her athleticism and her thighs and her muscle came into play. Like, you can't be a. Waist. And pull off something that no one else can do in this sport. Yeah, you know what I mean. But people don't think that it's an athletic sport. They forget that ice skating is athletic and they want a pretty wifey.

Everything's supposed to be a goddamn beauty contest, right? When women are participating, that all of that comes in, and you have to suddenly talk about that all. The time, right? Yeah. It's just a whole thing. And so it's sad. It's because of her strength. So fuck you to everyone back then. Let's stand by that. We'll also do this 1994. It's just so telling. It's like she was clearly groundbreaking, right? You have to look different to do something different. Yeah. Like, obviously you need the muscles to get up there.

Yeah. And it's like she could try to beat Nancy at her own game, but that wasn't her style. And the reason she was one of the best in the world is because she had her own style. And she was, you know, doing new, exciting things. It's kind of almost like they shouldn't have been in competition with each other because they were both doing something completely different. Yeah, but they were so Tonya's triple axel wins her the United States Championship and sends her to the 1992 Olympics in Albertville, France. You love it there.

And Nancy also competes there. But between 1991 and 1982, tiny seems to lose the ability to land that triple axel. She falters in some competitions, and it seems like her life is just so chaotic. I can't imagine she's getting a lot of sleep. You know, and that takes practice all day if you want. Like for the Olympics, you don't have another life outside of that, I can't imagine. Right. And also, I mean, I bet you the way people do it now, where it's like you're eating certain things, right? Training certain times. All you're doing.

She's smoking cigarets, you know, she's like, she finds a Camaro somewhere to lean on and just smokes. That's it. Drinking beer, smoking cigarets, hanging out with your fucking husband who, like you, have this tumultuous relationship with. It's just not. Conducive to winning an Olympic fucking medal. Probably not. Right? I mean, I'm just podcasting and I'm fucking exhausted from, like, sleeping eight hours. My muscles, I rotted all weekend and my muscles are killing. Same, it hurts, so it's good. And I have big thighs and still I can't.

I can't nail the triple axel. Your lines are amazing. Your. Grace and lines and cheekbones. Are giving. It's the hand. There you go. This is why I did tap dance. Not ballet. I'm one of the clop all over the place to make as much fucking noise as possible. That's right. That's why. I'll pay. My mom. How to make me stop tap dancing down the grocery store aisles. Stop tap. Dancing. That's what you do to, right? Or your mom would grab you? I'd say, yeah. She would just grab me by the neck and be like. What do we need to.

We don't wander. Off. Which meant stop having temper tantrums everywhere you go. I would just you'd always know where I was because I was clopping. Down to tell you that I have not looked at it. Okay. Stop this. We're creating so much work for the editors in this episode. We're showing them. What it's like to be Tonya Harding and how chaotic life can be. It's really hard, and we understand it. Yeah, but you know what? Leave it all. In. We stand by our words. We're leaving it all and nothing is getting out of the. Yeah, okay, everyone go on vacation.

Okay. At the Olympics, Tonya tries and fails to land the jump. I just got a suck, and I it's just you can see that's what I think too, about her skating. You can see it in her face when she wins and loses. In a way I don't think you're supposed to like. Yeah, so that's right. But in a really, like, cool, powerful, like, prideful way. Yes. That's awesome. Like she's cheering along with everyone. She's leaving it all on the field. Exactly. Is that the one when she couldn't land it where she had the black velvet outfit on?

I think. So I feel like I watched one of these real time. Yeah, and it was hard to watch it. Okay. Midori Ito lands hers, and in the end, Kristi Yamaguchi still takes home the gold for America. Northern California girl. Midori Ito takes silver for Japan and Nancy gets the bronze and Tonya is in fourth place. This would potentially be where Tonya and Nancy's Olympic stories are over. They're 22 years old, and the next time the Olympics roll around, they'd basically they'd be 26. They'd basically aged out of four. Olympic figure skaters.

So that was it. Like fourth place. You're done. But I and this is so fateful fortuitous. They get a once in a lifetime break because prior to 1994 the summer and Winter Olympics happened in the same year after the 1992 games, the decision is made to stagger them and it's decided that there will be another Winter Olympics in 1994 and then the Summer Olympics in 96. So it can be every four years. So they just like double up on winter and they get to go back to the fucking Olympics. That is so weird. Yeah. And I feel like I didn't know that as a detail, this story.

I didn't know that either. But I'm not as into ice skating as you are. She? I think Jewish people don't really. We don't ice skate. Why would we? I don't think I. I meant into it as much as like, I'm more of a it was such a pop culture situation. We had Dorothy. Hamill, Peggy Fleming, like, yeah, we knew their names. Yes. You know, always. So this gives all the winter athletes the rare opportunity to compete in another set of Olympic Games just two years later. Lucky. So you thought you were done. You practice so hard to get there.

And now it's like, okay, I guess what you're doing for the next two. Years. Starting all over again. Wow. So cut to two years later. Let's just fucking. Yeah. Let's get let's just let's just go. 1994 Tonya and Nancy are back again vying for spots on the next Olympic team. So they still have to compete again to even be on the team in order to qualify for the Olympics. The skaters will need to first compete at the US Championships. Do you want to know? It's called. Yes, especially the legs U.S. Figure Skating Championships.

Yes, but lost legs. For those of you who are very young, that's the pantyhose brand. Pantyhose that used to come in plastic eggs. That's right. Like Easter eggs. But pantyhose. It was spelled legs, but like legs. Legs, apostrophe eggs. And it had its own display where all of the eggs sat on individual little holders. Yeah. Before there was like, you know, the anime toys in Little Bubble, there was fucking pantyhose. And we made our moms give us the fucking container when they were out with them. That's right. Every time legs, like all our Barbie shoes are in there.

It's such a brilliant way to be like, do you want these pantyhose that all look like this, or do you want some in eggs? You want him in their legs. Why don't we put more stuff in eggs? Guys? I stopped okay, so in this, during this time two years, Nancy has gotten additional endorsements and Tonya has pretty much gotten nothing. In 1993, she divorces Jeff. But the way Tonya tells it, and this is fucked up and it seems true. US figure skating authorities urge her to get back together with him so that she can portray this image of stability and traditionalism.

Yeah, they're like, you can't be a divorced ice skater. Go back to your abusive husband. Otherwise you're not going to win the thing that you've been devoting your entire fucking life to. That makes me think. Do you think they flipped out when she married him in the first place because she was only 20? Yeah, I'm sure, because he. You've seen the videos, you just, like, came with her to all the shows. He kind of had, like. Well, scotch. With the mustache and. Yeah. So it's pretty awful. And it's certainly within the realm of possibility that they said that for such an image focused sport, because only in 2004 were women allowed to compete in pants.

Like the. Leggings. They couldn't wear leggings, they had to wear fucking. Legs. Legs, legs, legs and a. Little. And they a lot of them still won't wear them for fear of getting dinged by the judges because costumes part of your score. And so they just don't fucking like the color. Yeah. Or the cut. It's like it's a personal preference, not a fucking. It's very dance moms coated like it was just always going to be haunted by these people that are behind a table, you know, waiting to put up a number. And it's like, those are the they and your mind works like they say, you shouldn't do it that way.

It's like. It's fucking so that. It's it's dance moms and it's pageants. Child pageants. Which is gross. So gross. Yeah. Okay. We're just. Insulting the entire. I don't like. Anything. Yeah. That brings us back to your favorite day, January 6th. I was 1994. In the wake of the attack Nancy had suffered. So they were they were aiming for her knee, but they missed and she suffered a severe bone bruise. And the lower right thigh was what ended up getting hit. But they did purposely go for her standing leg. So when she did twirls, she did it on the leg.

But they hit because she could have kept going. Maybe if she didn't have to like, you know, gave her that leg. Right. But so they purposely used her. Her weight bearing leg. Thank you. Yeah. And it was hit with a telescopic baton. Oh, yeah, a police baton. But she's like, what happened? I mean, yeah, it's so traumatizing. Why? Why? And then her dad picks her up and carries her into the locker room. He had to take a fourth job. Jesus Christ, this is so much worse than I even understood it to be. I know, but her knee is not broken, which is a miracle, so she can't skate in the US championships, which will determine who's going to go to the Olympics.

But she's not long term incapacitated and she can't skate in the U.S championships, which determines who's going to go to the Olympics. So without Nancy competing, Tonya places first. Oh. And a baby. Michelle Kwan, 13 at the time. And, I mean, she looks like a, like a little. Baby. Yeah, she places second. So the 13 I know. Geez. So the two of them are technically who are supposed to go represent the US at the Olympics. The committee decides to bump Michelle Kwan. They say to her, look, you're 13. You have other chances.

Nancy doesn't. How do you feel about us? Like switching you guys out. Nancy had couldn't compete and Michelle fucking Kwan said, okay, like how graceful is that of her? And like, fucking cool. Holy shit. Yeah. As a 13 year old, you're like. No fucking you judge, get the judges over here. Just fuck you. Fuck. Yeah, I'm in seventh grade. You're cool. Fuck you. Oh my God, what a generous thing she did. Totally. I mean, even if she didn't want to, it's like amazing. Yeah. And like that had just happened. Nancy and I, we cannot tell you how big of a story this was at the time.

This was the biggest story in the U.S. and maybe in the world for a while. Yes. I'm angry about. How big. It was. So they decide to send Nancy anyway, even though she didn't compete. And so this competition has come to an end. Tonya and Nancy are going to the Olympics, but the frenzy to figure out who attacked Nancy heats up. And, I mean, I can't remember if we all knew it was Selina. We knew. They knew. Like who didn't know? I think that. Well, they just had to get the proof. Yeah, but I feel like what's unfair and really would have been unfair if it if she wasn't guilty.

Tonya just had that look of a girl that, like, you don't want to cross her, and then she finds you in the movie theater parking lot. So then it was clearly all those adults were just acting like, we know what happened. We can't prove it. We're going to continue as if that's what's going on. Totally. So shortly after the attack. That. The Queen TV queen in Portlandia, we know that well, the Portland station receives an anonymous letter claiming that Jeff, Tonya's husband Tonya, and a team of Tonya's bodyguards were responsible for Nancy's injury.

One of the producers at the station knows Tonya personally and calls her up about it, and she says, you can look at the, letter, but you have to do an interview with me. Like she fucking. Did. She wrote that letter? No. Oh, no. She's like, you can see it. You can come to the station and see it, but only if you do an interview with me. Oh, kind of like, got it. All right, girl. So Tonya goes on air on that station to refute the letter, and it's so fucking creepy. Jeff is sitting directly behind the interviewer, and in the interview you can see him staring at her, and you can.

She looks afraid. Yeah. And you can kind of see her like, you know, look at him a couple times to get right answer. And she claims it was only after this interview that she begins to get the inkling that Jeff was really behind the plot. And so this is the big question is what did Tonya. No. And when and it's debated, there's no total proof either way. I think we generally assume she had something to do with it from the beginning. Allegedly. Yes. I mean, that's kind of the logical. Yeah. But then the idea of that your abusive husband would do this and you didn't know you was going to do it is so awful.

You can see how that would happen to like, that's what's so hard about the argument is like, you could see him doing it without wanting to burden you and like, he's just going to do this thing that he thinks she might want. Or he's like, he's the man and the provider. And he's like, yeah, I took care of it for you because she. Tonya got a death threat before the Nancy Kerrigan thing happened. Oh, and so that's what they were going to do initially, is just give Nancy a death threat and hope that maybe she doesn't compete.

But then it became this thing, so she might have had nothing to do with it. I, you know, allegedly, allegedly. Okay. So the station hands over the letter to the FBI and it's quickly traced back to a friend of the father of one of Jeff's friends, a man named Shawn Eckhardt. And so this guy is played by the incredible Paul Walter Hauser. Do you know who that is? Yeah, I think so. He was the one in Blackbird who played the serial. Yes yes yes. Such an incredible actor. And he's so perfect. And I, Tonya. So he had actually worked as Tonya's bodyguard and had given interviews in the wake of the attack.

He's just a complete idiot. He also privately tells lots of acquaintances that he was involved in it. He's like, he's bragging about it. Yeah, he thinks he's like this, you know. Like a superhero. Yeah, like a. Badass. Yeah. And he's just not. Once the FBI gets to Shawn, the whole plot is revealed fairly quickly. The FBI agents who interview him said, quote, when Shawn realized he was facing some fairly serious penalties, he folded like a cheap accordion. Shawn signs a statement claiming that four men were involved in the plot, and that the idea seemed to come from Jeff, the husband, Jeff Shawn, to hire a hit team of two other men to carry out the attack, and those two men are named Derrick Smith and Shane Stant, and so basically they travel to Detroit, where Nancy is competing to be in the Olympics and where they hit her.

And all of this travel is charged to credit cards under their own names. I mean, when confronted with all the evidence, both men confessed to the attack and plead guilty fairly quickly. Yeah, but over time, the men involved in the plot start changing their stories, saying that Tonya was involved and that she was in charge of the plot. So she kind of turns on Jeff, her now ex-husband, and when he finds out, he turns on her too. And they all do. Yeah. The only real evidence they find against Tonya is some. They find a scrap of paper with information in her handwriting, allegedly about their rank and phone numbers for the rink where Nancy was practicing.

And so it just looked really bad. Yeah. That isn't good. Yeah. And so while all this is going on, talking is still preparing for the Olympics. In the meantime, no stress. Push on. Through. Yeah. Which are scheduled to begin in Lillehammer. Thank you. Lily hammer. Lily hammer Norway and Tonya still practices at the. So Tonya's practicing at this rink in an open mall. And now she's the biggest villain in the US. And so as she's practicing and stressing out over the Olympics, she's being watched by every news station in the fucking galaxy.

And just like waiting for her to fall and fail and something wrong to happen so they can report about it. Yeah, it's just crazy. It's open to spectators and to the press. It's a madhouse. Even Diane Sawyer shows up ringside and just hangs out at the edge of the rink, asking her questions. Diane Sawyer went to the Clackamas Mall. Yes. That's hilarious. Like one of the most respected journalists of our time. And she. Has to get out. There. So this media frenzy follows her fucking everywhere. Over the course of six weeks leading up to the Olympics, under questioning, Tonya confesses to learning about the plot after the fact.

That's the only thing she ever admits to and not alerting authorities as soon as she knew. And that's the only thing she's guilty of. She says she was afraid of what Jeff would do if she came forward, which is reasonable given Jeff's track record of abuse. But people to this day doubt whether or not she knew about the plot in advance and whether she helped advance it. But while all this investigation is going on, Tonya hasn't been charged with anything, and the Olympics are approaching. And with Tonya being a U.S.

champion, the Olympic Committee has no solid reason to remove her from the team. Like they can't. They're hoping she resigns because at this point, she admitted she knew something about the plot after the fact. Tonya then threatens to sue the Olympic Committee. Yeah, I'll fucking sue you for $10 million. You all you motherfuckers! All you motherfuckers! I'm competing. Yeah. Meanwhile, Nancy's healing up, and she'll be able to compete. In the six weeks between the attack and the games, she has to spend four weeks in physical therapy and then only has two weeks to practice her routine.

And, actually, in January 1994, this story was so big. It was on the covers of Sports Illustrated, Newsweek, and Time magazine. Yeah. It's huge. The Winter Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway begin in February of 1994, and at the Olympics, the whole U.S. team has to practice at the same time, they all get the same ice time, which means Tonya and Nancy will be on the ice together. It's like, are they going to have a catfight and scratch it out? It's just so dumb. Massive media frenzy happens and everyone wants to see what will happen in the end.

It's all anticlimactic. They don't get into a fight. They don't even talk to each other. Then Nancy has a pretty good outlook on the whole thing, and she kind of just ignores any of the questions. She just won't talk about it. She doesn't want that to be the focus. She's pretty. Pretty graceful about the whole thing. You love her. I love her, don't I? Oh, no, I love Nancy. I'm Teen Tonya all. The way, baby. Tonya is a fucking badass. I was like. But I'm scared. Yeah. Just. But I don't know. There's something about that thing of like, she's just the little engine that nobody thought could.

And so she's like, I will, I will beat you all into submission 100%. And then it's like, oh, but you're not pretty enough. It's like, it doesn't matter. I'm going to do it anyway. She was like, I do it exactly the way you want me to. I'm still going to fail. And so I'm doing it my fucking way. Yeah. And failing on my own terms. Yeah. And then still fucking winning and still showing you how good I am. I mean, she's so impressive. Also being fourth in like Olympic and Olympic sport. No one can get close to that. No. That's the it's there's.

People really love to watch TV, myself included. And I just feel like I could do that. That's easy. It's not that big of a deal. It's like most people can't just go once a round. No, I'm part of ice skating. Is making it look easy. They don't want you to have, like, strain on your face or big thighs. Big muscular thighs. They want you to make it look like you're just. Flying because you're just a little. Lady. And Tonya's like, well, fuck you on this. Like, I'm going to do things other people can't do, right? And I'm where a lot of black eyeliner well do. Yeah.

The thing is that she didn't know she was an atom. And if we had just gotten some brown eyeliner in there, they would have loved her to death. Absolutely. She could have been a little redhead. Yeah. I think I love them both. Okay so. Once the competition gets underway, Nancy skates a great short program while Tanya's performance is rocky. I mean, no dress or anything. Yeah, exactly. When it comes for the long program, when Tom, his name is called, it takes her a long time to get on the ice because her, shoelace broke.

Oh, yeah. And I remember. That. Yeah, she has very specific shoes because of the jumps. And so they couldn't find the laces that were long enough for her. She's freaking out. She gets on the ice the very last minute. So stress. Like, can you imagine? I mean, she says, like, it's not going to hold me. Like she knows her shoes are not going to hold her for her jumps. And she also has, like a misaligned skate. It's just a mess. And so she fails her first jump and she begins crying and takes her. Remember, this is the one where she did.

Yeah, I watched all of it. Yeah, I saw it. And also, it's that thing where when I was watching it and I think there's no way the judges weren't saying this or like this. The commentators weren't kind of alluding to it, but it's like, how do you with that right behind you. Oh, yeah. Go. And so what? The second her lace was broken, it was like to me, I could feel I felt like it was the pressure was building, building, building like crazy and the like people staring at her. And then it was like it wasn't the shoelace.

You just couldn't. You wanted out. There's no coming back from that. And yeah, everyone just loved the photo of her face looking out like they ate it up, how devastated she looked. And it's like you, you know, everyone was like, you got what you deserve. Like there's just this whole storyline. Everyone loves that. Kind of like, teach her a lesson, and you know what I mean? God forbid she. Yeah. Lay in the bed that you made type of thing. Totally. So that's kind of what happened. No one had any sympathy for her. She restarts the program and with the new lace and the routine goes well, but there's no triple axel, nothing great.

And Nancy skates after Tonya and again skates a great program. And it's looking like Nancy might be poised for the gold if everyone is rooting for her because she's America's princess and she got back on the ice and it's all that. She's so brave. Yes, she's a Disney princess. It's braver that Tonya got on the. Ice. Because aside from physical. Yeah. I think psychologically, yeah. If we're going to do a brave measurement, Tonya wins that. One. She refused to apologize to anyone. I mean yeah. And you know. She had she had Hotspur too.

Maybe a little too much. But yeah. But then comes 16 year old Oksana Byul. From Ukraine. And sensing that she's probably neck and neck with Nancy, she adds in an unplanned triple toe loop, whatever the fuck that is at the end of her program, and it ultimately lands her the gold, and Nancy gets the silver. Tonya comes in eighth place. Oh, after all of that. So I think they were hoping that they'd be, like, neck and neck and, you know. No. And it's a really disappointing outcome, of course, for the American sports casting perspective and an unsatisfying end to the biggest sports story of the year.

But Oksana did skate really well. But a lot of people say that the skating community was actually just sick of America's antics. So even though Nancy should have gotten gold and a lot of people argue that they were just like done. With. America's oh, shit. And so gave her silver. So Nancy's double punished. Get Nancy's double punished. Yeah. Because something she had no control over. Yeah. Well, but also it just like and also wrap it up that is, that is so like life where it's just like you can't hang out in the public eye that long, right?

Without they're going to get fucking sick and you. Know, they're going to come back and. Watch. They like yeah. They're going to come at you. What are we doing? It's ten fucking years of this. Oh, we've had that time and again. We have haven't we? I mean, Jesus. Christ, where are the. Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan of podcasting? Okay. I think for the double, Tonya Harding is tongue. Harding some podcasts. Yeah, fine. So in March of 1994, right after the games and Tonya makes a plea deal pleading guilty to conspiracy to hinder prosecution.

She's stripped of her 1994 Olympic eighth place title. She's like, take it. You can have it. And she's banned from participating in figure skating in any official capacity for the rest of her life. Jesus. It sucks. It's the devastating blow that's like what her whole life has been leading up to. But also, it means she won't be able to coach or make any money in the skating circuit. You know, when Disney on Ice or whatever, she cannot even fucking. Yeah, do that below. So that's her entire life has been dedicated to this thing and she can't make a penny off of it.

Yeah, it's all she knows. She didn't even graduate high school. That's vengeful. Yeah. Skating. It's a little bit of the skating authority is tough. Yeah, like, let her get on the the B level circuit, you know. Like, let her code. How does that hurt you? They got to, like, make a point. No. Attacking other people's knees. Might be. Fair. And up. In the 20 tens, after renewed attention to the case. And then also after the I'm Tonya movie comes out, which was so fucking good. I watch over the weekend like I didn't think I'd like it.

It's so fucking good. It's so funny. She finds more work on reality TV and does better, and in 2018, she comes in third on Dancing. With the stars. Did she really? Third is amazing. Amazing for someone. Well, she's a dancer I guess, but not in that sense. And probably not for a while. Yeah, but also dancing with the stars is hard. Oh my God, he says, guess what? You're going to be on it. No! Hahaha. Did you do it? They asked you never. You wouldn't fuck no I yeah, because they're just in your business all the time.

It's like a reality show of like this is also your life. Okay, so then it's like you practicing. It's just behind the scenes. Now, behind this. It's too much of like, any person's like, you know, that's real training. All right. I got to call our agent and tell them you said no. How were you going to do it? Nancy has remained deeply involved in the skating community and has commentated for the Olympics. She lives in Massachusetts. Very. And she has a husband and kids. She's very involved in the Skating Club of Boston, the group that lost many young figure skaters in last year's plane crash in Washington, D.C..

You know, there's. Video of her giving a press conference, like weeping. It's so sad. Oh, so now do you feel fucking bad? Yeah. Okay. Even worse. And here's something better. She's actually also appeared on dancing with the stars, and she came in sixth. Oh so. I think we know who the better athlete is after all these years. They really in the form that it needs to be figured out on Dancing with the stars, not the Olympics. Look at us sitting on our butts, critiquing okay? It's like. Armchair quarterbacking. That's as we love to do.

The other 90s American figure skating becomes a huge deal with TV specials and national tours. It this is when it really, like, blows up into mainstream, and figure skaters are catapulted to a much higher status of fame and recognition, and fucking that those lucrative dealerships, than they were previously. And a lot of people think that Nancy, the whole Nancy versus Tonya spectacle is part of the reason for this. Yeah, it makes sense. So it launches a generation. I think you're skating fans who to this day continue to debate what Tonya knew and when she knew it.

And that is the story of the 1994 assault of Nancy Kerrigan. What an incredible Christmas tale. So good for the holidays. It's like, is that a Christmas movie? This is a Christmas story. Yes. Yes it is. Ice. It's ice. It's everywhere. And but also it's like hopes and dreams and then dreams deferred. And what that does to you, Christmas miracle. It's almost like they did it. The Olympic Committee did that on purpose of like, nobody likes the way that ended up with Kerrigan and Harding. Yeah. Let's get him back out here.

Yeah, because that's wild. Yeah. Amazing story. Thank you. What a great thing for everyone's vacation. Yeah, I didn't even think of doing it because it's just like such a story from our youth. Like I just been like, yeah, that's not true crime. Or, like, that's just what happened. And it's like, oh, this is fucking. That's when someone's free. They pull crime into their perfect little world of athleticism and, you know, coaching and yeah like that's not allowed there. No. Yeah. When Allie and Molly pitched it to me I was like oh I could do that.

So good. So thank you guys. Yeah that was great. That was really good. Thank you. Good job to you too. Thank you. You're a great man. Spectator and commentator. You know I was there for a lot of it. Don't remember it accurately, but love chatting. Sure. It's my favorite, especially Christmas especially. Sorry I keep saying Christmas to you, especially at the holiday time. Thank you. Your holiday is also important. To who I to me. Well, listeners, have a lovely holiday. Whatever you're celebrating or even not celebrating.

That's right. Treat yourself to something nice. You deserve it. Treat yourself to a telescoping, weapon of your choice this holiday season. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. It. Goodbye for. The.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "The Story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding | MFM 511"?

In order: 0:00 Beth's Dead, Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgariff, My Favorite Murder; 10:00 Tonya Harding, My Favorite Murder, Nancy Kerrigan, ESPN 30 for 30; 20:00 Tonya Harding; 30:00 Reebok; 40:00 Michelle Kwan, Tonya Harding; 50:00 Lillehammer, Nancy Kerrigan; 1:00:00 Dancing with the Stars, Nancy Kerrigan, Tonya Harding.

What is mentioned in this My Favorite Murder episode?

14 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan, 1994 Winter Olympics, Beth's Dead, My Favorite Murder, Lillehammer. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding | MFM 511"?

The episode runs 1 h 8 min; the transcript is about 13,091 words in 125 timestamped sections.

More from My Favorite Murder

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 10, 2026.