The Strain Every Entrepreneur’s Spouse Feels

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Joanna, Harvard, Next Level Pros
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Evelyn, Joanna
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Evelyn, Joanna
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Evelyn, Joanna
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Joanna, Evelyn
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Joanna, Harvard
7. 1:00:00 – 1:02:25: Next Level Pros, Evelyn, Joanna

Notable quotes from "The Strain Every Entrepreneur’s Spouse Feels"

• Pause at the front door. The people you love carry it with you. Today, I'm going to sit down with my wife, Joanna. If you run a small business, you know the grind follows you…

  about Joanna · at 0:37

• Moving for a new venture or Yeah, pretty much. We're moving for a new venture, right? Because we had Evelyn in Salt Lake and then we moved to Washington. Jane was born in Washington.

  about Evelyn · at 11:46

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Joanna — Person · 11 mentions · first at 0:41
• Daryl — Person · 10 mentions
• Evelyn — Person · 6 mentions · first at 11:50
• Darl — Person · 5 mentions

Companies & orgs

• Next Level Pros — Company · 3 mentions · first at 1:04
  We've got an extremely special guest with us today on the Next Level Pros podcast. And it's not Daryl.
• Harvard — Company · 2 mentions · first at 0:17
  Years ago we were in completely different roles at the time. He was at Harvard having the time of his life and you know I'm at home with kids going through some pretty intense…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 I really thought like as a kid once you got married like you don't have problems anymore. There's moments where everything's great and you're like wow we have the greatest life ever and I think there's moments where you're like this I I am we're taking on too much. 2 years ago we were in completely different roles at the time. He was at Harvard having the time of his life and you know I'm at home with kids going through some pretty intense high school struggles. I just thought how could we be in the same relationship and having completely different experiences? This was the discussion. It was, "Darl, I don't get why we're together because we are so good." Entrepreneurship doesn't pause at the front door. The people you love carry it with you. Today, I'm going to sit down with my wife, Joanna. If you run a small business, you know the grind follows you home. Watch this and you'll learn how to strengthen your marriage

0:48 and stay connected to your kids while you scale. But not from my perspective, from the perspective of my wife. Let's jump in. We've got an extremely special guest with us today on the Next Level Pros podcast. And it's not Daryl.

1:07 Nope. It is sweet, sweet Joanna right next to us. Yes, guys. Joanna, thank you for joining us.

1:14 And for those who don't know, this is my wife. Yes. Hello. Daryl's looking a little nervous.

1:21 How long have you guys been married? 19 years. 19 years. Yes. Yeah. Long time. And you guys have four beautiful children.

1:29 Thank you. Yes. Four girls. And each one of them is in a different school. We have one in college, one in high school, one in middle school, and one in elementary school.

1:39 And you guys are still happily married. Yes. Okay, good. And that was the episode, guys. No, I'm just kidding. Jenna, we brought you in for a specific reason. We wanted to talk about all things that you've had to experience being married to a chronic entrepreneur. We often talk about what it's like being an entrepreneur and the identity that comes with us as entrepreneurs, but we often forget to share and talk about how being an entrepreneurship or being in entrepreneurship can impact those around us and especially it can impact our loved ones.

2:14 Right now, when I look at you guys, I've seen you guys. I've known you guys for eight years almost, which is crazy to think about. Nearly a third of my life I've spent with you guys. Oh, that's great.

2:25 And when I see you guys, what I love is my wife and I, we talk about how much that we aspire to have a relationship similar to your guys's. The way you guys raise your kids, the way you guys treat others in the community, what you guys have created is very special. And I think a lot of people that have come to our events have also noticed that. But I think often people can kind of like misconstinuate what that is. People might view it as perfect.

2:51 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm sure it's anything but perfect. Yeah. What are you guys still struggling with now while Daryl is still in an entrepreneurial phase?

3:06 And that's for me to answer. Uh what we struggle through now in in our relationship.

3:13 Correct. Or let me give you a better question. Okay. What do you think Daryl might be struggling with or has struggled with as an entrepreneur from your perspective? What you think Daryl has? I think uh if you're busy raising a family um I think just struggling with with connection when things get really busy for him um and I'm I'm tackling the other half of you know whatever's going on at home um we're not connecting you know which is pretty normal I think for most marriages but I think sometimes with work for him he whe whether he's out of town or he is here but there's a lot going on, I have to cover the rest. So then when we when we meet together, we're not as connected cuz maybe we haven't really discussed what happened in the, you know, the other half of our family here at home versus what's happening with him at work with his um his day. So

4:13 have you ever felt like cuz entrepreneurs it's like go go go, right? So, I think there's there's moments where everything's great and you're like, "Wow, we have the greatest life ever." And I think there's moments where you're like, "This I I we're taking on too much." You know?

4:29 Do you ever feel like you're left to pick up pieces? Yeah. Yeah. Just this last weekend for sure.

4:36 Explain to me like because it's probably happened multiple times throughout your relationship as

4:41 Yeah. You know, Daryl's built several large businesses and you guys have built businesses together over the years and he comes home and you're like, "Hey, I've been doing all of this all day." And maybe there's like a lack of recognition or communication and you're left there to pick up everything.

4:59 Yeah. How are you feeling in those moments? Like what are you experiencing? Yeah. I think like as a for me as a female like it it also depends, you know, what week it is for me and how I'm going to respond to what's happening. But uh cuz there's sometimes where I'm so happy to support him, but then there's times where I'm like, "All right, I'm tapping out. Like, you're it." Like I I can't do another drive by myself, you know, take a kid somewhere for for sports or something. But uh yeah, I think

5:31 I think something too to to that you should talk about is how raising young kids how it is crazy.

5:38 Yeah, because it really is. I know like um you know I talked to people and they're like, "Yeah, my wife, she's got we got kids. One's two and one's six and one's eight, one's 10." And I'm like, "Oh, she must hate life." Because

5:52 when you have young kids like that, life is just I think what I what to relate to that is is uh I think I saw like a happiness chart for for adults and the happiness for adults without children I think was um pretty like steadily going up like a good trajectory like high but then um adults that have children their highs were higher and their lows were way lower. So it was like very high and low. And so I think if you can remember that, that's what I was saying like earlier, you know, there's moments where everything's really really great and then there's times where you feel like you kind of hit bottom with like how we're handling things, you know, which is a little bit highs and lows. Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now, let's dive back in the show. Did you always know

6:46 being with Daryl, even when you guys were just dating, that Daryl had this entrepreneurship journey destined for him?

6:52 You know, I I did, but I had a friend in college who pointed it out to me. Uh she I was had been dating Daryl for a while, and she goes, "I just I really want to find someone someone like him that maybe Daryl doesn't know this." she had mentioned to me, she had said, you know, he just he's going to do something. Like she just, you know, kind of just reminded me like he's he's focused. He's got, you know, drive to just, you know, he didn't have a lot of fear, right? He was just willing to to try anything. And so I think that um I I think I recognized that when we were dating.

7:30 So you recognized that early on dating? Well, yeah. the the first time we met, he was recruiting me to go sell summer sales door to door.

7:38 That was how he he got me to hang out with him that summer. When now you guys have gone through this journey for very long time now, you experienced early on you knew Daryl's destined for something or at least you heard that he was destined for something.

7:56 Well, yeah. When we started dating, his family would always speak really highly of him, too. And so before I even met him, I had heard heard about him and they had just put him high on a pedestal. And so I was excited to meet him the first time I met him because I had met his family before him.

8:12 Even signing up for summer sales, right, is much different than like a traditional like career path.

8:18 True. And that requires a lot of Yeah. The first year I did sales for him and worked in his office and then the second summer I was his office assistant.

8:26 Oo. Yeah. Well, in the office action, huh? Yeah. And then he proposed after that.

8:31 Okay, let's go. Cuz you're just that was your promotion or I don't know. I know. I think I was his favorite but office assistant. I think he thought I did a good job.

8:42 Did you Did you guys ever have conversations early on about, hey, like I'm Daryl. I'm about to experience. I'm going to build this business on my own. What? Like what are those early foundational expectations, if any, were set? I'd actually I'll actually jump in here because when I graduated college, right, I was kind of like fed this. Graduate college, you can get more opportunity. I graduated college in 2008, which was when the market crashed. So now I'm trying to apply for jobs where there's 20 other people way more experienced than me. I have no clue what I'm talking about. I'm I'm green as they can come.

9:22 And I just like, man, I have to work four times as much as I've been working and I have to make a third of what I've been making. It just didn't make sense to me. And so when I graduated, I just realized that's when I was like, you know what? Like there's I can't get a job. Like I have to go figure out how to do this a better way because I I can't go backwards. You hear this now, Joanna, and you've you're seeing this probably early on into your guys' relationship.

9:52 Are you scared? Like, what? Take me back to as you're starting to see this start to unfold cuz this Daryl didn't go through tradition.

9:58 As as Daryl was talking, I was thinking being an entrepreneur back then wasn't as cool as it is now. I don't know if maybe I feel like that maybe just because I've experienced the journey of how cool entrepreneurship is now that I can say that but back then it didn't feel cool when things weren't that great as far as you know financially bringing in you know what you wanted to or hoping to. So yeah, now that I think about that, whether it's because of that or if really 10 years, you know, 15, 20 years ago, maybe it really wasn't as I feel like back then it was like go be a doctor, you know, go to graduate school.

10:35 Like I I feel like those were the things that were were pushed and so this did feel a little bit more of an adventure.

10:42 Um but I I loved it. We had young children. We were able to try things and we moved a lot. We probably moved at, you know, three or four times um within

10:56 few years. Yeah. Five or six years. Uh but I I liked it. I Were you scared? I really did like it.

11:03 Like uh or did you always I'm signed up? Yeah, I've always been I've always trusted Daryl's um and and even as we've grown together, I I trust him more now, too. But I I think I've always trusted that that he was going to put the work into whatever he was trying. I you know I feel like he definitely had my trust in that.

11:24 What's interesting is you guys had kids. You just mentioned it. Kids very young and you guys had them. And what I think is so cool about you guys' story is it seems like every new chapter of your life, a new business venture, a new move

11:38 started with having a child. That is true. Yeah. So what that looked like was um Yeah. Every child we were either moving for a new venture or Yeah, pretty much. We're moving for a new venture, right? Because we had Evelyn in Salt Lake and then we moved to

11:55 Washington. Jane was born in Washington. Yeah, Washington. Jane was born in Washington.

11:59 Lib was born a month before we moved to California. And then Mary was born in Utah a month before we moved back to Washington.

12:09 And I remember that. Yes. I remember cuz you guys were still in Utah and I was calling Daryl for proposal work and like oh yeah I just had a baby.

12:17 Yeah. I was like go home maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Was there a time where you were feeling like okay you just had a baby. You were about to have a baby and now you guys are about to embark on

12:30 a crazy journey, whether it be moving or starting a new career or new company, but you're like, maybe we should go back to normal life. Like Daryl should go get a job or whatever it might be.

12:44 No, I haven't felt that way. There's times where he's been like offered uh like like certain areas he could have gone to that I regret a little bit where I'm like, "Oh, if I had known that that area would have turned out to be a good area." Um I wish I would have let him choose more. There's times where I've kind of like um Do you want me to explain that?

13:06 Yeah, sure. Just like a physical area like Yeah. Like we were we were supposed to sell solar um I think in Vegas. the market had opened up and we had already set our mind to go to California and I was set on that and then he said, "Hey, it looks like we could go to Vegas." And I was like, "No, no." And that ended up being a really great market. And that's where I think over time I've learned to trust him more instead of and and and I think California was a great experience for us overall. You know, it was one of my favorite experiences. Uh but, you know, financially that market would have been better. I could have listened to Daryl when he had had said, "Hey, I kind of feel good about this. I know we talked about moving here, but this could be a better option." But, you know, I've learned that in time.

13:49 Has there ever been a time at all that you've been scared to embark in like this new chapter, new journey?

13:56 I would say that the the question is not the better question because she really um I don't think she's ever scared or worried about what I'm doing. It's more of how is that helping her through what she's doing, right? raising four girls, having a new babies, uh or young babies, like that's I think the challenge has been where like I'm not there to support her or whatnot. So, it's not so much of she's concerned with what I'm doing as much as it's she doesn't feel supportive or she's feeling like there's a lack of of presence or whatnot.

14:29 And moving around was fun when our kids were younger, but it did get to a point where we needed to stay in in one spot. And we have, you know, The request was I want to plant flowers and I want to see them next year.

14:41 Yes, that was so big to me. And the funny thing is is now I have that and I don't I I I'm working on my garden. I used I used to have a I used to be really big into gardening and anyways now I I do have a place where I could have something come back every year. So I think I actually think that is a really interesting conversation about how like the things you dream of wanting and then having some of those things or all those things and then what you experience versus what you thought they'd bring.

15:14 Yeah. And I think uh you know we we have we've been blessed. We have a lot of you know we have great kids. We have a great home. We have great business. We have great partners. like we have on paper I'd be like dude everything we've I've ever wanted I have

15:31 um I have other things now I want but that's like looking back 15 years like I would say yeah this is everything I want it to be but um what's interesting is you still you still have to find struggle like you still have to find happiness like those things come at you they just change on where they come from if that makes sense would you agree

15:52 so what like what does that mean or How's that look? Oh, I just think uh what you find joy joy in changes especially I mean I the phases of life have changed for us too. You know, we're we're an older family now. We have a daughter in college and yeah, how you find joy through um all the the driving and the soccer practices and the um you know the 3 to 10 schedule is when the day really begins. Uh and and yeah, I yeah, you still you the simple things really are what's going to bring the most like real joy to your life.

16:35 I sometimes hear from significant others that are there to raise the kids while the other is out working or building a business or whatever it might be that a lot of times they feel like they lose themselves a little bit.

16:49 The fe like the female. Yeah. Yeah. Did have you ever experienced that? Yeah. Walk me through that. What that looks like?

16:57 Yeah. What What is that and where does that come from? I think it just I think you get so wrapped up with wanting to support your children in a way you weren't supported as a kid that it is so important to you to like be there for them. And so I think you get in a you really want to control things. You really think no one else can do it as good as you. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. you know, whether I pay someone to go drive my kids to soccer, they're not going to have, and I don't think it's wrong to do that. I I've done that. We've paid kids, we've paid teenagers to take our kids to soccer or things when we can't make it.

17:29 And it works sometimes. Um, but yeah, the control part of you as a female is like, "Oh, but I would have had a better conversation with them." You know, you kind of get in your head a little bit. And so, um, you lose yourself in this quest of wanting to make your children's life the best it can be, you know, and within that, I think you lose yourself because you stop maybe doing things you're interested in or forgetting what you might be any interested in. Because I love my middle schooler, I love when she tells me about what's happening at school. That's like the best TV show I could watch. Like it is more entertaining than anything I've seen on TV. So I love that, you know, but with that I get lost in my children's lives, you know, and and it's awesome. But I think my relationship with Daryl is really what's going to last when this chapter kind of moves forward. They find their lives. And you know cuz for me my

18:30 relationship with my parents isn't as valuable anymore. And I recognize my kids that will happen to them too as they start their own families. So uh yeah I think I'm learning how to have hobbies and pay attention to what I'm interested in on my own just as

18:49 is that the individual is that is it hobbies? You know what are you doing? What are the tools or like the conversations you're having with yourself or with others to like for lack of a better term rediscover yourself, find your purpose again, and find who Joanna is?

19:05 I think uh one thing I've I've noticed is it's really easy to say no to to things that seem scary or new, you know, like I kind of resisted the whole pickle ball thing for a while. Like it seemed kind of like a cult. like everyone was doing it and you you weren't cool unless you played, you know, were part of some league. And finally, I I did join a a Thursday afternoon pickle ball league and it's super fun and I like being with other females that are like different ages, uh, you know, different generations. I mean, you've got Gen X, you've probably even have baby boomers in there. I mean, it's it's a wide range of females playing pickle ball on Thursday afternoons and it's it's really fun. So yeah, I think paying attention to your health, too. You know, nothing's going to really um improve for yourself individually if you're not taking care of yourself. So Daryl and I started lifting weights like

20:00 a year ago or a year and a half ago. Um and yeah, and because of that, not that it it when you start paying attention, you start noticing other things and fine-tuning certain things in your health as well, you know, through that. It's not like the answer is lifting weights, but then nine months later you learn something else about yourself because you started lifting weights. You know, it's like those type things.

20:24 One of the cool things that Evelyn said on our last episode, which I don't know if you've realized or if you verbally said this out loud, but she's never heard you speak poorly about Daryl to other people or to like the children.

20:39 Yeah. Has that always been like a rule for yourself? Has that been like a framework or like something you guys have discussed prior or is that just like an something that's come within?

20:48 So, I think honestly, well, I think Daryl's awesome and he's a great dad and a great husband and so why would I ever want to break him down when I know those are facts, you know? But as uh I' I've seen things like research um and and things people have talked about lately that you know kind of backs up what I've done over the years because I've heard people say that before like I've never like what bugs you tell me what bugs you know they want want me to like give the dirt on Daryl or something but um yeah I I really don't have dirt but uh one thing I've heard though like obviously we still have arguments and we still fight and I've I've heard someone say that if I go tell someone else about my fight with Daryl, um they don't ever hear the resolution. They just hear that I'm angry and then, you know, a couple months later they're hanging out with us. They're still they're still mad at him because uh we they never heard the

21:50 resolution. I've moved on. I've you know, I've had a conclusion to our fight and we've moved on on from that, but they haven't. And so it doesn't really do any good to like I guess talk to other people about what you're struggling with if they're not ever going to hear the resolution from it. I don't think it helps their relationship with him

22:08 either. You know, I think too like you in general I I like you just don't speak bad about anybody.

22:15 And so I think that's like a characteristic. I don't know why you you have that. Levi doesn't. But um I think that's I think that's also just part of like your character like you and I and I think it's a powerful one too because um it's hard. I mean life's hard whether you're a mom or entrepreneur or dad or whatever. So I mean having people that are talking negative about you just makes it even harder. So I uh I definitely appreciate that about you.

22:42 Thank you. Yeah. I've talking about this subject. I've been thinking a lot with my own children that I need to be careful when I'm talking to to them individually not to talk about their siblings. If I'm frustrated with their siblings, not to share that with them either. I don't think when when I'm with that child, we should just be talking about what that child's doing. I don't need to talk about what the other kids are doing. And I've been thinking about trying to to implement that more cuz I find myself doing that sometimes and I just don't think it's helpful for that.

23:12 Think about it. When you're with your parent or or your mom or your dad, like you just want that parent to be with you and talk about you. And it's fine if they mention and and you have conversations about other siblings, but I've been thinking about that lately as well.

23:26 One talent that I think that you have that I maybe you don't think is a talent or not. I think it's a talent is you have this innate ability to visualize a space and to make it feel like home. Like I call it fune.

23:39 You've got the fune. Oh. Is that a talent that you've had just innately like internally or has that developed because you guys have moved so many times you just have this ability to kind of make the sanctuary that Evelyn talks so highly about where like it being home feels like sanctuary?

23:57 What is your ideology on like turning that house into a home? So I think uh you're right. I when we moved a lot in those earlier years, I got a lot of practice because when we when we moved to another house, I had to figure out where the couch had to fit in this new house and where's the you know where where am I going to take what I have and make work in the next house, you know? And so I had a lot of practice and I I don't think it was I think it's something I practiced. It wasn't just a gift that I've always had cuz I look back at pictures and there was some like really bad choices and hard like orange carpets and you know I I look back and I thought that was so cool at the time but I I see how my style is like developed um in time. But I love I love looking at a room. I today I was at a dentist office this morning and immediately I knew if the pictures were hung you know just 18 in lower it would make the whole

24:45 room feel better. You know like I can feel how things would just feel better. not because someone has to buy new things, just because of the size and the placement of what they're putting in the room. And so, yeah, I'm very passionate about making a space feel better, cuz I think when um like energetically, you feel better too when things are placed a certain way.

25:06 How important is that to protect that energy too, right? Like to like I'm sure Daryl is at work 10 hours in the day or whatever and to come home to a house that's

25:17 the energy's off. there's no fune and for you too when you've got kids running around especially at a young age where it's like it's probably really easy to kind of hermit it up and let the house be a mess or let things you know

25:30 whatever it doesn't matter the kids are going to ruin anyway but I feel like you've protected that energy for like quite some time like how important is that energy

25:38 you feel like my house is always clean is that what you're saying no but I feel like there's there's like a I don't want to say system but there's intention behind everything.

25:48 Yeah, there is. So, funue is probably not what you think it is. It's like a It's like a really old method. Um, where it actually it actually has I don't know if you really want me to talk about this on your podcast, interior design, but but there actually is like an energetic meaning to every section of your house. And that's what funue is. There's actually a grid, like a a nine rectangular grid, and you can place over the blueprint of your home. And every section there's a love and relationship section. There's a fame and reputation section, there's a prosperity section, your health, your family and relationship. So there are sections of your home where if you were to declutter that section, the method in funue is that that would help you in that part of your life. So yeah, it it helps me when I'm cleaning up to have a like a a higher vision to why I'm cleaning up a certain section instead of being like,

26:39 "Oh, I can't believe this part of the house got, you know, destroyed again." And it's more like, "Oh, well, if I put it back together, it'll help this part of my life." You know, if you believe that.

26:51 What of your guys' moves or life changes was the most difficult? Well, uh, probably moving from Utah to Washington

27:06 back for Souljian. Mhm. Yeah. when soldier began uh because I had uh my fourth baby and for some reason I had really really terrible postpartum depression and I didn't have that deep of depression with my other three kids so it was that was new like that was a whole

27:24 you didn't have any depression yeah I mean maybe baby blues but that was like way more serious you know when we moved to Washington so it wasn't because of of it was just because of that really What was the overcoming moment? Or maybe not moment, but what are you doing as you're experiencing this in real time?

27:45 How are you overcoming this? I mean, I went and got my blood work done. After like a couple years, I I started thinking when I when I couldn't lose the baby weight. I'm like, what is going on? So, I got my blood work done, started to see I had some kind of thyroid things that needed to be addressed. Um, yeah, I just started paying paying attention to my health and what I was eating kind of as far as like whole foods versus, yeah, just trying to

28:16 This was definitely an interesting uh change in our marriage because if I would have if you would to look at Joanna before that, like Joanna was always joyful, always happy.

28:26 Yeah. Joy was easy for me to obtain, always energetic. Yeah. And then this point that just changed. It went away. And it sounds scary. Like if someone were were to tell me that like it sounds kind of scary like you're really a different person. Like sometimes I I have really good friends in California and sometimes I think they don't even I almost have to be that old person they remember me when I when they see me cuz I've like changed that much and and they wouldn't they wouldn't say that. They'd say, "No, you're the same."

28:52 you know, but there is kind of this it it really was a big shift and now I have to like work a little bit harder I think to like really feel like I did back then. It's strange. Really is.

29:06 If now where you guys are fast forwarding to now Mhm. And but looking at everything in hindsight,

29:14 what are some important questions or conversations that a spouse that knows that they're like their Daryl wants to start a business or is pretty deep into a business? What are some questions that they should be asking

29:31 to their spouse? You to Daryl. Daryl comes to you and is like, "Hey, I want to start a business."

29:36 Mhm. And maybe this is the first business. There's no history of building $200 million solar companies, but they're like, "Hey, I want to build this home service business. I want to build this medical practice. I want to do this entrepreneurship journey. Are there questions that you should be asking?"

29:51 I'd say like, "How do you find trust in the journey? How do you find trust in the unknown?" I think that was something that you've always offered me, which has been powerful.

30:00 Um, and I think we've always had communication about how to like support me, right? Obviously we have communication around it supporting you but yeah in your mind how would you see like how did you how would you deal with that if you had to start over like how do you create trust in chaos right

30:21 yeah I think I think there's there's not much especially if you're in the beginning stages of starting a business like the worst thing that could happen isn't really that bad you know if it doesn't work out. Not really a big deal. You can go back to what you were doing. I just don't really feel like there's that much of like I remember the biggest thing when we when we were doing um like started trying different businesses was uh people couldn't believe like we didn't have health insurance, right? We had to that was huge for me. I remember that was one thing I would hammer like, "Yeah, but we don't we don't have health insurance." I mean, now it seems so silly cuz things have changed so much over the last 15 years. Uh, but there's so many different options now when you don't have to work for an employer to have health insurance. There's health insurance options out there for you. A lot of times it's a lot more affordable

31:14 to pay cash anyways. But that that was a that was a one of those things people would say to you. Uh, so so yeah, I just don't really think there's I think there's more to lose not trying.

31:27 Let's go. I I really do. You know, I know that's easy for me to say, but uh I think Daryl used to tease like the worst thing that could happen was is that we would live in your mom's home and my mom has like a amazing daylight basement and a pool and that would actually be great. And so it's, you know, the worst case scenario really isn't that bad if things don't work out and you can always go back to what you were doing. So, just talking about your character because I still this drives me nuts. I actually didn't realize this till like a couple months ago, but you brought up healthcare and it made me think of this situation. So, Joanna's got her she's 20 years old.

32:14 Not right now. When you have Oh, yeah. She's 20 years old, has this brand new baby. She goes to the doctor and we had decided that we were going to do a delayed vaccine schedule very similar like what we did when we were kids.

32:29 Yeah. And uh she walks in the doctor's office and she said, "Yeah, we're going to do this." And the doctor said, "All right, well then I'm not going to meet with you. You can't be my patient." And walked out. What does that do as far as like how do you how like how do you how do you feel good about yourself when you have to face that kind of rejection?

32:56 It stung for a while cuz to clarify he actually told me what I was doing was child abuse and that's why he couldn't keep me as a patient. Um I cried. the nurse came back in and she could tell I was teareyed and I just kind of grabbed my stuff and left. And sometimes when you have like experiences like that, I just tell myself like that really hurt and that was that's someone's opinion. Um but because I felt that low in that experience, I'm going to feel a high from that experience. And shortly after I found an amazing doctor and he was so gentle and kind and listened to me on what I wanted to do with the vaccine schedule and was very supportive and and that was amazing. So I think sometimes when you experience something really really low, you know, the hope is that in that experience you'll feel a high eventually.

33:49 I think that's also uh something we talk about a lot, right? The pendulum swing.

33:53 Yeah, the pendulum swing. when something doesn't work out, it's like, okay, you went into this this negative side, which means there's something positive from it. And it's like just getting through that so that you can experience the the other side. And that and that saves me a lot when with having kids, you know, when your kids argue and it's really hard at home. You know, it almost seems like, you know, it can feel really really challenging and then, you know, 6 hours later they're all laughing and teasing each other and they're best friends and you're like, "Wo, that was such a shift." So that that helps a lot.

34:28 Sometimes it's an hour later, right? Yeah. Or Yeah. 5 minutes. Yeah. 5 minutes. I've always heard this story from Daryl all the time and I've tried to implement in my own life as well where you guys tried to design out the best vacation possible and the story that it comes from is this supposed Vegas trip that ended up being awful.

34:50 Yeah. I would love to hear your perspective on this Vegas trip. Okay. And what really happened?

34:58 I had never been to Vegas. I think we had one child at the time. Yeah, we had Evelyn

35:04 and we were we were going to drive from Salt Lake, go down to Vegas for the weekend. I was pretty excited. I've never seen it before. I've always heard, you know, the strip all this, you know, I just didn't know what it meant, you know. So, we didn't do much planning except what was the cheapest hotel we could find and what could we do to not spend any money.

35:26 And u Great plan. Great plan. Yeah. If I if I remember, I'm trying to remember it through pictures that we still have from that trip, but I think I had a baby carrier and we walked everywhere. I mean, my feet killed. I mean, we went to every site you could think of and and it just wasn't that great. And yeah,

35:45 it was exhausting. It was exhausting. And I don't know what time of year was this?

35:50 I think it was like an early November maybe. So, it wasn't too hot, you know. I was wearing like jeans and things. But uh so then uh we decided, you know, years later, we were going to go to Vegas again. This time we had like three kids. And Daryl, just for fun, was like, "Let's make a list. If money was no object, let's make a list of everything we would do." And so we were like, "Oh, we would take a helicopter ride over Hoover Dam. We would um we would get a penthouse suite, you know, at the nicest hotel or casino. We would What were some of our other ideas?

36:30 We would change penthouse suites and then we'd fly take a helicopter from one one hotel to the other.

36:36 Okay. We talked about going to shows, dinners, the best shows, you know, best dinners. Anyways, so from that list, we ended up like jumping off the stratosphere. Um which was so fun. if anyone's ever done that. That's actually a really fun. It's like a freef fall. And so we I we jumped off the stratosphere that trip. I think we did go to a show. I think we went to Lake Me. Um I went boating. Ended up being such a fun trip for us. And just just the difference. It's not like we did what was on that list, but because we just let our minds have like that green light of what could we do um made us more creative to come up with other ideas. And so just like allowed your mind to create more options than trying just the only option not to spend any money, you know, kind of suffocates creativity.

37:27 So then how does that look today? How does that does that still happen with us? Yeah,

37:31 like vacations. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I think there's times where we talk about, okay, if we could do anything, you know, and other ideas get brought up that wouldn't have been brought up, I think, if we don't allow that.

37:44 So, now we do with the girls. So, the girls are chipping in, saying whatever. No one's no one's criticizing it. No one's picking it apart, asking how much it costs. It's like purely just

37:54 come up with the craziest ideas and let's see what cool things we can come up with.

37:58 Yeah. I also love too, speaking of you guys with your girls, we just had our culture workshop.

38:06 Yep. And one of the things that we drilled into the business owners attending the workshop is how important it is to create this massive vision, but to have a mission statement

38:18 and some core values. Yes. And this is something you guys have done with your family.

38:22 Yes. Please share. Yeah. Daryl years ago started um we well we started saying this phrase when we were out together like out on the boat like out on the river it's just like a great night and like I mean there's times when you're out on the river here and it's beautiful and I feel like Darl would say like how can it get better than this and we started saying that and then it started turning into this idea like this is our slogan and um I like to take the slogan two different ways. Daryl's Mr. Optimistic, so he only takes it like when you're having a really great moment, like how can it get better than this? Meaning like it can get even better. You know, you can have the best moment and it can get even better. I look at it too as like a teaching like moment with my kids where like if they're not liking the situation they're in, they're with a group of friends and they don't think it's fun, it's like how

39:15 can it get better than this and what can you do about it? You know, how can you make the situation more fun instead of instead of just not doing anything, you know? But uh yeah, so that turned it into our our mission or slogan I should say and then from that we we put in together um like a mission statement with um yeah like a set of like lifestyle goals we

39:39 what's a mission statement uplift our lives and the lives of others and then uplift is like our values. So uplift, you have um unconditional love, you have physical well-being, you have love of learning, inspired by Christ, um financial uh financial mastery, and then trust in the unknown.

40:03 Gosh. So, we have those core values. Each of them have like really specific uh definitions that mean something to us. And our youngest daughter at the time when we created it uh couldn't read. So there's just she has a paper and it has like pictures on it and and she thought it was really cool. She could color and

40:22 Yeah. They're symbols. So she she memorized like all the symbols of of what each of those

40:27 the uplift meant. And you guys are you guys are building this as a family together. Yeah.

40:32 How important was it to get buy in with your kids on something? Like as a kid, I'm thinking if I was a teenager, I'm sitting in a living room with my siblings

40:41 and I'm like, "Mom, dad, core values. What are we talking about?" But your kids embody this now.

40:48 And I don't know why that is. I' I've had people say like, "Oh, if I were to bring that home to my kids, they wouldn't like it." And I don't know, our kids just do.

40:55 I think it's because I guess it's not like they were like sitting around like listening to us, you know? I mean, I'm sure they were running around the table or But yeah, they were bought into it. Well, we we asked too. I was like, "What's what's missing here? Does this do you guys feel like this is aligned?" Uh, it was their recommendation to have symbols for each of the the values. Um, and so then we we talked about what those should be. So, we created those together as well. Um, I think you're I think just because they're not listening doesn't mean they don't hear what's going on. And so I think we've always talked in a way that our kids are listening um or that they're hearing what we're what we're doing even though they might not be paying attention. And I think you do that long enough and you start to realize they are paying attention. It's even funny with like Evelyn going to college um she's really embraced way

41:46 more of our family culture which I can tell she appreciates and wants to keep using.

41:53 Yeah. And so it's cool to see her take like the culture that we've built in our home and now she's applying that or pushing that in college and the way she does things and takes care of herself in ways that

42:04 the conversations she has with roommates about how to handle certain situations

42:07 which if you rewind you know few months ago when she's living in her house she's like absentee you know she doesn't even want to be there. So, it's funny seeing that transition from absentee to to Yeah, dude. This is how we do it. I'm like, yeah, you go, girl. This is how we do it. It's fun.

42:26 Yeah. In entrepreneurship, I think a lot of people always want to talk about dollars. And Darl, you've always had a very interesting framework around money, and it's that dollars enhance your life, both good and bad. They can enhance the bad things in your life and they can also enhance the good things in your life.

42:47 Joanna, how has money enhanced your life? I think it gives us uh ways to use our time better, you know, if we can like we're going to pay more money to have a better experience with our time. And so, you know, when it comes to vacations or time we're spending as a family, um that can definitely enhance the family trip, you know, depending on where we're staying or what we choose to do. Uh I always wanted to have a boat. I grew up in Tri Cities and um I I that was just something I enjoyed doing with my friends and their families. And to me, that has always been something I've wanted to do with our family was was boating. And that's something every single person in our family loves, including me. Uh, so that's that's a definitely something that's enhanced our lives in the summertime.

43:44 Uh, but yeah, I think more of like what can we do to just enjoy this experience and if it costs a little bit more money, you know, Daryl's not afraid to to tip the the hostess if there's a really long wait, if it gets us sitting down with whoever we're with faster. Happens quite a bit. You guys want to hear the hack?

44:06 Give the hack. This is the hack. You show up at a restaurant, there's a line, you got a 45 minute wait, one hour wait. Do you know how to make that 45 or 1 hour wait turn to zero?

44:20 Just a nice little honey. You talk to the lady, say, "Hey, for a hundred bucks, can you get me a seed right now?" And you know what they usually say? Not usually, you know what they say every time? Right this way. And so, um, yeah. So, once again, uh,

44:36 time really, because that's about time. So, you can sit there for an hour or you can just give some kid in need a nice big tip and they'll take care of you. So, you pay for their service, they pay for yours. It's just a exchange of value right there. So, so basically when you tip the hostess 100 bucks, you're basically just cutting in line. Mhm.

44:57 And I learned I remember college reading some book, I can't remember what the book was, but it talked about all the social structures that we inherently and invisibly just follow, lines are one of them. And so I don't cut in a short line, but if there's a super long line, the the whole premise of this book was like there's there's a gatekeeper. There's someone like the people are the weakest link. always someone who can like get you in, right? And so for me, it's like a game. It's like, okay, how do I just long lines, not short lines. I need a challenge,

45:36 but I've cut in some really long lines, and I love it. Joanna hates it. Yeah. I think there's just like a moral compass in me that it feels wrong to let someone else wait and then but then I get I get to go first to cut, you know, it's making the line longer by me cutting too. Uh, I also think sometimes like I was I was at Silverwood the other day with my girls and we waited in a really long line and we got to know the people in line and u had a really fun conversation, small chat which Daryl loves and so

46:12 but yeah, even uh but if Daryl if Daryl does the dirty work and I I get a phone call to come to the front of line, I'll go. But there's a little bit of shame involved.

46:22 You'll reap what he sews, huh? I will show up. But I'm always like that little like nervous.

46:27 Oh, sorry. Uh my girls are actually pretty good at it, too. They understand the

46:31 I have a couple who are on my side, a couple who are on Daryl's side. So, just depends who feels the shame or not and that.

46:38 Yeah. Yeah. You know, cuz you say you say you're going to make them wait, they're already waiting. You haven't changed their reality at all. Now,

46:46 whose reality? People waiting in a long line like that. And once again, it's a it's a social construct that's like who who told us we had to do it that way?

47:02 The park. The park. Mhm. Your mom. Uh kindergarten, first grade. First grade. It's true. School school system taught us that. I I understand the value of lines and and structure. To me, it just understanding that there's always a game involved. That's what makes it fun. So, I obviously don't want to do things that like hurt people or put people out, but if I can make something fun out of it and it doesn't hurt anybody, why not?

47:32 There's been a couple times I've been grateful when it's Yeah, there's been a couple times.

47:37 Do you want to hear some of my best ones? Sure. I was going to tell you. Anyways,

47:41 you're talking about the the outdoor spa right? Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. So, we we showed up at this outdoor spa and the line was lit

47:50 like hot springs, outdoor hot springs. Lots of it's an adult only hot springs. Okay.

47:55 We show up with my dad and my sister, mom, dad, sister, husband, and the line's like 45 minutes long to get in. And I'm like, oo, this is a good line to cut. So then I figure out, how can I cut it? So what I do is I go to the front. There's a security guard there. I said, can I use the bathroom? He said, "Sure." So, I go inside, then I take off my clothes, so I have my swimsuit on. Then, I go over to the uh to the ticket line.

48:25 Well, it was more like the indoor ticket line. It wasn't even the actual ticket line we were waiting for.

48:29 Go into like the guest, whatever. I said, "Hey, I need to pay for six people. There's six of us." So, I pay for everybody. Then, I go back to the same security guard. I said, "Hey, I got tickets for people. Can I call them up?" He's like, "Sure." Call up everyone from the back of line. They come all in. There we go. Save us.

48:46 I was grateful for that one because no one wants to wait in line for a spa. Dave.

48:49 Yeah. So, I was pretty excited about that one when he when he said he was like in his swim shorts all excited called I'm like, "Oh, this is great. I don't have to wait another hour."

48:58 I don't know. It was cool. So, anyways, fun stuff like that. Or do whips at uh Oh, Disneyland. Yeah.

49:05 Right. Who wants to wait for a dole whip? Nobody. So, all you do is you go to the very front of line, say, "Hey, I'm buying your order. Can you add this to it?" You buy their order and you add your order to it. Everyone's happy and you get your dollet. Genius.

49:23 You guys have never fought, right? With gloves. No. Has there ever been an argument that you guys have had where it ended up turning into like a system or a framework for you guys later in your relationship? I think arguments bring up something that's not working and a lot of times you do make changes after arguments. Um even if it's like a relationship, you know, an argument about your personal relationship with each other. Uh obviously you have to like re-evaluate where things are at with the changes going on in your life. And then from that, um, usually you renegotiate what's going on in your relationship and

50:11 make changes. I think that's actually a good word, renegotiate. I think you got to realize like throughout your marriage, you have to like renegotiate your relationship.

50:19 It's not the same. Wasn't the same when we first started. It changes so much. It changes so much. And I think people lack the

50:25 the negotiation part because what she needs is different. And I might not be aware of it. what I need is different and she might not be aware of it. And so if we never have that conversation, it actually um we feel like we're just falling apart.

50:40 Yeah. So, like for example, um if there's an event at our house, like we had a a discussion recently where there's an event at our house, um instead of having someone come 2 days later to clean up, they actually like someone actually needs to like stay and help put things away be like the minute after, right? because it's at our home and uh other otherwise I you know I can't wait 2 days cuz I have to live there you know to to clean up from a from an event. So things like that like it wasn't really an argument but it's like hey this didn't work you know and like we it's really easy to fix. It's not a big deal.

51:17 It's just making sure you have systems in place like that like okay next time we're going to do this. Um

51:23 yeah I think it's just like getting better 1% at a time like just having the communication acknowledging it getting better. Um, and then you just start to like stack wins as you do that more.

51:34 Yeah. I've also learned anger is never a primary reaction or a primary emotion. Like anger is often used as a defense mechanism or security measure behind what's really happening.

51:48 Mhm. Like a deeper feeling or meaning of sadness or loneliness or whatever it is. So I think it what you guys are bringing up like anger is you could spin it and say like hey this is a great catalyst for the real conversation that we need to have cuz I find myself we'll argue my wife and I will argue about uh the dishes.

52:06 Mhm. But the argument is not about the dishes and we're angry as a reaction to something else

52:14 and the reaction to something else is hey I feel unseen because you didn't do what you said you were going to do or whatever the situation might be. So I think it's powerful to realize the moment you can identify that hey I'm angry but I'm not angry because I want to be angry. I'm angry because of whatever else is happening. I think can be powerful.

52:33 I' I'd say something too. We've uh we've recently not recently but over the last few years we've gotten more into astrology and numerology and human design

52:46 human design and stuff. And it's interesting because these are just different frameworks that we use to help understand each other. Um, for example, like astrology wise, like we're complete opposites.

52:57 And so understand we're born like exactly 6 months apart, which is opposites. Yeah. And so understanding that opposites attract, but they also create a lot of tension. So we just have to be careful so that we because we know like if things go uncheck like we will have a ton of conflict um because we're opposites. she's going to think very different than the way I think. And so we oftentimes now that we're aware of that, we know like, hey, let's let's make sure we're in sync because if we're in sync, there's strong attraction and if we're not, there's strong conflict. And so, you know, there's there's a lot of different things we've used to just try to help understand each other better. Um, right.

53:36 What would you say to that? For sure. Um, I think it's easy to become even more opposites um after you've been married to someone for so long because you are covering more ground as far as what you're trying to like successfully get done as like a family unit. You know, he's going to cover what I'm not covering. I'm going to cover what he's not covering. And then through that, you even become more opposites. But if you look at it as more of like the value you're bringing to your family because you're able to cover different roles, then it's helpful.

54:06 It's, you know, you're getting a lot done. This was the discussion. It was Darl, I don't get why we're together because we are so different.

54:14 And that was probably like two years ago and we were in completely different roles at the time. He was at Harvard um having the time of his life. I mean, going back to be like a boy at college, like he's loving it. And you know, I'm at home with uh you know, kids going through some pretty intense high school struggles and then you know, driving everywhere. Um anyways, I just thought, how could we be in the same relationship and having completely different experiences? It almost felt like how are we how are we a couple when you can have such a complete different experience than me? And I think there's a lot of different answers to that question, but um but yeah, that I think that started us kind of self-discovering ourselves and and looking more at what it brings to the relationship um our differences, how they're actually good.

55:08 Yeah. It kind of went from we have all these differences and it was very aware and it was like, okay, uh are we supposed to be together or is this a sign that we're meant to be not to be together? And then uh and then we realized then we we did some um there's some books we've read on this relationship book stuff, but um realizing that our differences actually make us stronger together. And so the idea is being married can give you an unfair advantage in life. Um because you have someone you share your strengths, weaknesses, your story with, but as you get really um integrated with each other, you become more opposite, which allows you to cover more or do more together as a couple. And so what we found was initially it was like, man, we thought it was a weakness and then we realized that that weakness could actually be our strength. Um, and so then that's how we were able to

56:01 Yeah. to move. I really thought like as a kid once you got married like you don't have problems anymore, you know, and it's just crazy how much character development happens from marriage. Like a lot of developing, you know, who you are. It's pretty it's cool. Like I think it's a positive thing, but it's, you know, you learn as you go. If you could just give a cliffnotes one pager of best practices as a spouse or significant other to an entrepreneur.

56:31 Oh, okay. Like a list. Yeah. For your own sanity and maybe the entrepreneur's sanity.

56:39 Like a explain more like a list of tools, conversations, questions, support system.

56:44 I can start this off. Okay. Uh go ahead. One thing that's really helpful is if if your partner is an entrepreneur for for them to say every once in a while, uh, what can I what can I help you with today? Because I think uh, for me that's that's really helpful just cuz I already know Daryl has a thousand things to do today. I already know he does. But when he just takes the time to just say, "What's one thing I can help you get done today?" a lot of times and I could be better at communicating but sometimes when he asks I'm like oh yeah there actually is this really and it could be a simple thing but that helps a lot. Um you want a list though

57:22 anything I think communication's good important too like when to communicate. I remember uh when I was knocking doors

57:29 right the conversation we had was like don't call me when I'm knocking doors. Yeah

57:34 because it distracts me and I rather talk to you than knock doors. So to keep me focused, don't call me during this time. If you do call me, I'm going to answer cuz that means you need to talk to me. And so we early on had that communication. I thought that was awesome.

57:46 Yeah, knocking doors is so emotional when you're out there. And so that worked for knocking doors for sure was was don't call till the day's over, then we'll see each other and talk about the day, you know. Now we do we talk a lot throughout the day. Um I mean, we talk a couple times throughout the day just to check in and because he can. He's not knocking doors door to door. I think that's different. But yeah. Um, some other things we do, do you think in our relationship that are helpful?

58:16 Um, you guys have like date nights that you like intentionally. We work out in the mornings together. That's really helpful. Um, if we can hop in a car together to like take someone somewhere, we'll hop in the car together just to like talk. Um, yeah. We're not like a we're not like a strict Friday night date night people. We're not like that. Um, but we just like to try to find time together.

58:40 I think Go ahead. I'd also say we don't we don't argue the same way I think other people argue. So Joanna and I have like more of a if we get frustrated with each other, we're more likely not to say something than to say something. And so then to resolve it's okay, let's talk. So, it's usually like when one gets mad at the other or fired up, it's it's usually the quiet treatment followed by, "Okay, let's talk." And so, then we can talk through it without saying things that maybe we regret or don't want to didn't want to say in the moment. So, I think that's been helpful, too. Um, just because, yeah, I'm sure Joanna's had a lot of things she's want to say that she didn't say that she then rephrased later. I'm sure.

59:28 Yeah. I'm trying to think of um like from an entrepreneur like partnership is what you're asking, right?

59:38 I think it's I think it's okay to let your partner I don't know maybe Darl I don't know if this is helpful or not and there if there's been times where I've told you like hey I've been worrying about this through certain businesses. Does that help you or not help you when I share that? Um, I mean, I'm always worrying about things in the business that never goes away. So,

1:00:00 doesn't really help. Um, no, if it's something that I haven't thought of, then it it's helpful.

1:00:04 Yeah. Usually thinking about it, though. Um, I think one for me, I think the biggest thing is when you show trust in what I'm doing.

1:00:14 Mhm. Right. Um, just because you don't see all the pieces. Yeah. And that's the other thing is a lot of times it's easy to talk about the negative things that happened during the day and I realized I started making her worry more about what was going on because all she heard was the negative stuff.

1:00:32 So from my perspective I'm always um trying to share like something that's she'll ask like something funny happened at work or something good versus you know what's on my mind in the moment which is usually something that I got to fix or take care of which is not positive. So that's been important for me to always stay positive and share with her something so that she sees the business in that light.

1:00:56 Yeah. And Daryl's really good at that. Like I I'm definitely the more pessimist in the relationship. You know, you got those opposites attract and like he can always reframe a situation that I think is bad into could be the best thing that's ever happened to us. So he is so good mentally that like I should be taking notes. There's times where I'm like, "How would like if I have a problem, I'm like, how would he reframe this?" Because right now, this feels like the worst, you know? But he always has like a creative way to be like, "No, this is like the best thing that's ever happened." I'm like, "Really?" Feels really bad. But he always has like a a you know, everything feels like more of like a game to him. He doesn't get so attached to like problems I think that most people get attached to.

1:01:42 That's awesome. Yeah. Who's your favorite child? I don't have one. Oh, dang it. Almost got her. Guys, at Next Level Pros, we're here to design lives that impact the world. And that includes more than just your business. It means in your relationships. It means in your community. And that's why we're so thankful for having Joanna as a guest on our podcast because we love talking about the whole human and not just your business. If you liked this episode, watch the episode that Daryl did with his daughter with Evelyn, where you get the unique perspective of the insight of a young child of what it's like growing up in the household of an entrepreneur.

1:02:19 Until next time, thanks for watching the Next Level Pros podcast.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "The Strain Every Entrepreneur’s Spouse Feels"?

In order: 0:00 Joanna, Harvard, Next Level Pros; 10:00 Evelyn, Joanna; 20:00 Evelyn, Joanna; 30:00 Evelyn, Joanna; 40:00 Joanna, Evelyn; 50:00 Joanna, Harvard; 1:00:00 Next Level Pros, Evelyn, Joanna.

What is mentioned in this Next Level Pros episode?

6 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Joanna, Daryl, Evelyn, Darl, Next Level Pros, Harvard. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Strain Every Entrepreneur’s Spouse Feels"?

The episode runs 1 h 2 min; the transcript is about 11,987 words in 193 timestamped sections.

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