Transcript

Fetterman says most Democrats are wrong on the shutdown, Israel, and the working class

From NPR · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 57 min · 10,236 words · 140 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Fetterman says most Democrats are wrong on the shutdown, Israel, and the working class", an episode of NPR published November 11, 2025 (57 min, about 10,236 words). It mentions 32 people, works and ideas, including Israel, Pennsylvania, Two-state solution, battleground states, New Jersey (Jersey).

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: battleground states, Israel, Pennsylvania, Two-state solution
  2. – 10:00: Walter Reed
  3. – 15:00: Warren Zevon
  4. – 20:00: Alexandra Bolton, Massachusetts, Oregon
  5. – 25:00: Manosphere, New Jersey (Jersey), Pennsylvania, Statue of Liberty
  6. – 30:00: Board of Pardons, Israel, Josh Shapiro
  7. – 35:00: Pennsylvania
  8. – 40:00: Israel, Hezbollah
  9. – 45:00: Israel, Two-state solution, East Jerusalem, From the river to the sea
  10. – 50:00: Israel
  11. – 55:00: Israel, Carol Ann Duffy, Pennsylvania
  12. – 57:07: battleground states, Dr. Meett Oz, New Jersey (Jersey), Pennsylvania

Notable quotes from "Fetterman says most Democrats are wrong on the shutdown, Israel, and the working class"

  • He repeatedly points out, that he votes with Democrats the bulk of the time in the US Senate. Federman spent the fall railing against the federal government shutdown. He's…
    about Israel · at
  • Yeah. Last time I sat down with you and interviewed you, you had just returned to the Senate from Walter Reed. It was a pretty emotional conversation. You were still processing…
    about Walter Reed · at
  • Get better and will get better and it's not it's not overnight maybe a month but things will get better and all of the time I can hug my kids or you know Warren Zevon had that…
    about Warren Zevon · at
  • And that's and again it's a numbers thing. Look through the record and that's the thing. 90.6% or something. And that's that's a fact. And if I represented like a deep blue…
    about Massachusetts · at
  • This differences we can work out in the political system? Is it cause for alarm for you? Like what's the way though you weigh that? Well, well, of course I believe that those…
    about Alexandra Bolton · at
  • Honestly, look at the individuals that represent in the Senate. all friends, all great people represent New Jersey and Virginia. Virginia, it's not a surprise when blue states…
    about New Jersey (Jersey) · at
  • Governor Josh Shapiro, your Commonwealth Governor, that you don't even talk? well, I mean it's it's not as wish I hope it is, but we've always got along great. And the…
    about Board of Pardons · at
  • That you had staked yourself? Well, I think we can have to talk about the const of what Israel was able to accomplish. you know because they were able to neutralize and destroy…
    about Hezbollah · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Warren Zevon — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Alexandra Bolton — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Josh Shapiro — Person · 1 mention · first at
    There are a few other things in the book that I wanted to make sure I asked you about. Is it true that you do not have a working relationship these days with Governor Josh…
  • Carol Ann Duffy — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And That's that's the thing. People are upset if I vote for someone and I give the example if people in Pennsylvania listening. I voted for Secretary Duffy, and I didn't call him names. Transportation Secretary.
  • Dr. Meett Oz — Person · 1 mention · first at
    That's if that's, if that's your vehicle, good on you. But it is an honest conversation now of But wasn't wasn't that a big reason why your campaign did so well. The way that…
  • John Fetterman — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Unfettered — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Shutdown. He's unapologetically pro- Israel at a time when fewer members of his party are. We talked about all of that and more in a conversation tied to Federman's new memoir.…

Companies & orgs

Concepts & topics

  • Two-state solution — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
    Two-state solution. They don't want a two-state solution. They being they went from the river to Who do you mean when you say they There's parts of this book where it seems…
  • battleground states — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Accurate? No, I have I'm not I don't regret it, but it's like people have been willing to use it or to create an impression that's just not true. I don't think trolling is going to win any battleground states.
  • Manosphere — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    By that? what it just means that you know if people begin to get perceived as being anti-men and then that explains why people turn to the and they use phrases like bros or the…
  • From the river to the sea — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Who do you mean when you say they? What do you mean? Who do you mean when you say they? Are you talking about Palestinians? Are you talking about Hamas? Like who? I'm just What…

Places & events

  • Israel — Place · 18 mentions · first at
  • Pennsylvania — Place · 6 mentions · first at
    Absolutely. Because that was never mean. Pennsylvania Senator John Federman often finds himself at odds with his party these days. That's despite the fact, as he repeatedly…
  • New Jersey (Jersey) — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • Walter Reed — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Massachusetts — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Oregon — Place · 1 mention · first at
    That's the thing. 90.6% or something. And that's that's a fact. And if I represented like a deep blue state, Massachusetts or in Oregon. Yeah. but this is the most purple state in the country.
  • Statue of Liberty — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. And now we need to secure it. And we do. But I absolutely am appalled and heartbroken. Oh, now they just dropped the re refuge. I mean if you look what's in the middle of…
  • Virginia — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Honestly, look at the individuals that represent in the Senate. all friends, all great people represent New Jersey and Virginia. Virginia, it's not a surprise when blue states…
  • East Jerusalem — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Bill Clinton actually almost a year ago and I said, Hey, thank you for your work on this. And yeah, he reminded people like they were offered 96% of the West Bank. They could…
  • West Bank — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Bill Clinton actually almost a year ago and I said, Hey, thank you for your work on this. And yeah, he reminded people like they were offered 96% of the West Bank. They could…
  • Braddock — Place · 1 mention
  • Clairton — Place · 1 mention
  • Gaza — Place · 1 mention
  • Iran — Place · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

two-state solution. They don't want a two-state solution. They being they they went from the river to

Who do you mean when you say they There's parts of this book where it seems like you're saying that you've at times regretted being so open about your mental health struggles. Is that accurate? No, I have I'm not I don't regret it, but but it's like people have been willing to use it or to create an impression that's just not true. I don't think trolling is going to win any um battleground states.

But wasn't wasn't that a big reason why your campaign did so well? Absolutely. Because that was never mean.

Pennsylvania Senator John Federman often finds himself at odds with his party these days. That's despite the fact, as he repeatedly points out, that he votes with Democrats the bulk of the time in the US Senate. Federman spent the fall railing against the federal government shutdown. He's unapologetically pro- Israel at a time when fewer members of his party are. We talked about all of that and more in a conversation tied to Federman's new memoir. The book called Unfettered looks back at a 2022 Senate campaign that saw him suffer a stroke and fall into a deep depression. We talked about that, but started the interview with a vote by Fedman and a handful of other Senate Democrats with Republicans to reopen the federal government.

Senator John Federman, thanks for coming by. No, honestly, thank you for having me on.

We had scheduled this interview a long time ago and it just so happens that we're talking right when it seems like the government shutdown is reaching.

Have you heard about it? A little bit. A little bit. You heard about the shutdown? Yeah. Well, that's that was very front and center uh of us and and yeah, I'd be happy to talk about it because uh there's a lot of complications that maybe aren't discussed front and center, but now that's here we are.

You called it a failure when you put out a statement last night um you know, leading up to this vote to begin the process of reopening the government. You've been clear that that's been your point of view all along. walk us through why why why were Democratic leaders and and other members in your party wrong to to push forward with this?

Well, we we were we were as a committed Democrat, uh it's always been wrong for us to shut the government down rightly. They criticize the Republicans when they've shut the government down all the time. It's wrong. It's reckless. You can pull up all the quotes that would confirm that. So now that's you now it might be uh us driving it that makes it wrong too. I absolutely support extending those tax credits, but for me, the kinds of chaos and holding our government hostage is is unacceptable. And you actually move against, you know, my party's values. And at the center of it are very much a part of it are the 42 million Americans, you know, that get snapped. And eating is really important. Uh and and here's and here's where we are. and then other kinds of things, you know, paying our military and all of all of the other unions. So, that's what it's about. Um, and you can have priorities, but it's wrong to go shutting our government down. And, and

that's that's where we're at. I wanted to get your response to to some of the thinking from from other members of the party. I want to quote you something from Ezra Klein, the New York Times columnist, who isn't in Congress, but I think he kind of represents a lot of a lot of the mainstream thinking here. And the quote is this. Shutdowns are an opportunity to make an argument, and the country was just starting to pay attention. If Trump wanted to cancel flights over Thanksgiving rather than keep health care costs down, I don't see why Democrats should save him from making his priorities so exquisitly clear. And I worry that Democrats have just taught Trump that they will fold under pressure. That's the kind of lesson he remembers. What do you make of that general argument? Well, it's just like that's actually not a fold. That's that's realizing that it's the kind of chaos that might care more about the

kinds of impacts that it's going to have on 42 million people. Like if you depend on them to eat, that's not a political game. And it's not a political game as Mr. Klein seems to refer to it as, you know, it it's it's really about our bigger priorities. And I would remind everybody that's something that neither Musk or Trump has ever to able to do and shut our government down. We have and we've handed it to them. And that's why I think it's fundamentally wrong. And now in a longer conversation here, remind us Democrats designed those tax credits to expire at this year. That's the Democratic party. That that's not something they're taking away. They're saying we can have a conversation to extend them. And I do hope we should and I think many of their constituents are going to be impacted too. And that's why I think that's a way forward to find that without dropping our entire country into this kinds of chaos.

Part of the agreement is that there's a promised vote on these healthcare subsidies, extending them. How confident are you that actually happens, that gets to the president's desk?

I I I do I do believe John Dun is an honorable man in their arena. uh and Trump I would like to remind I would like to remind everyone uh with the border the border deal and I assumed we'd get rolled for that and we did and you can't control what Trump's going to decide ultimately but for me it's a choice of do you really want to risk the kinds of mass chaos that we are quickly descending in and after 40 days how much longer and now it's a fact do flying is becoming more and more uh chaotic and that's probably also means dangerous more than it should be and when 18 out of 22 air traffic controllers aren't showing up. I mean that that's that's bonkers for me. Yes, I want health care but not to create this kinds of stress in in our system. Mhm. I want to shift to the book and this is a book about an election cycle where you suffered a stroke and you struggled with serious depression. It's a pretty serious book.

Yeah. Profound profound profound depression. Honestly, I know millions of Americans suffer from it. Um and to really understand what what true deep depression is like, that's that's part of the conversation in the book. And when you hear the expression that you can't get out of your bed, well, I thought, no, that not really, right? Like, no, that yeah, that's true. That that is true. Uh I I couldn't get out of bed. Um and that's that's part of the lie that you start to tell yourself about depression. And that's when it really becomes dangerous when it it pushes you into uh the the final argument of now it's time to take yourself out.

Yeah. Last time I sat down with you and interviewed you, you had just returned to the Senate from Walter Reed. It was a pretty emotional conversation. You were still processing your treatment and what came next. I wanted to ask a little bit about that because there's parts of this book where it seems like you're saying that you've at times regretted being so open about your mental health struggles. Is that accurate? No, I have I'm not I don't regret it, but but it's like people have been willing to to to use it or to create an impression that's just not true. Um, and it's it's an honest conversation because a lot of people have had those things and paying it forward. And I've had a lot of people reach out to me over the years since um people and I always it's an honor to speak to people and help them speak to them to their experience because sometimes people can feel alone or where I'm at. Yeah.

You know, I'm not sure exactly how many resources and how much support that they have. And I've always wanted to make that conversation as simple as it can to just stay in this game

because I've I've had people in my life um made the decision to leave and that's not it's not a fail. They didn't uh they didn't fail but but that's a decision that they can't come back and how heartbreaking that is and how sad that is and you know anyone's

talking about suicide. Suicide. Yeah. Absolutely. And and I I know that that's not a necessarily a big political winner to talk about these things. Uh and I think I think I was the first elected official to do that. And I think actually Joe Biden Joe Biden considered it too. And I think he mentioned that, you know, after after I started to have that conversation. And now um it's not it's not a weakness. It it's just if somebody can get lost.

Yeah. And and that's why to be a voice saying, "Hey, look, that's a lie. That's a lie." And I don't know what your recovery looks, but as long as you stay in it, I promise you, you will get better.

People who've struggled with depression know deep down something you've said. It's not something you solve. It's not something that that's it. We did it. I'm going forward. You talked at the time about your depression being in remission. I'm wondering how you consider your mental health today. How are you doing with this ongoing challenge today?

I I am the happiest, grateful person ever. Absolutely. Three years ago. Three years ago effectively. I just won the biggest election in the cycle and I was on the the downhill depression.

Yeah. and it continued to accelerate and and now here I'm and to able to talk about it and to pay it forward

and and now um I am I'm so grateful honestly and it's a testament that people that are listening that that might be in in that place that that if there's value to know that things can get better and will get better and it it's not it's not overnight maybe a month but things will get better and and all of the time I can hug my kids or you know Warren Zevon had that enjoy every sandwich. Uh it's that thing. It it's I think I've described it as like a dark the a dark gift. I I wouldn't ask for it, but if you've had it, you can appreciate life being on the other side. And to to um uh it's it's pervasive in our society.

Yeah. And and suicide is an epidemic. And uh just you had the tragic situation with the d the Dallas Cowboy player, 24 years old. He just scored his first touchdown in the NFL and and he made the tragic uh and it's heartbreaking and I guarantee you if you could talk to him he would regret it and he would take it back and that's part of the finality of it and how awful it is.

Yeah. And and that's why I wish anybody stay in it. Stay in it no matter how it must feel.

Yeah. You're talking about Marshon uh Neland just a terrible situation. No, I read that. I got emotional. Like I get emotional talking about it. How tragic. Um Oh my gosh. When it's like even young teens, I I've spoke I've I've spoke to to to teens or his father begged. Um he tried twice to take his life and I had a 15-year-old at the time. how heartbreaking it is whether you're bullied into it or you're struggling with your your your how identifying whether if you're a member of the trans and and like that's heartbreaking and you can't you know like and that's part of this conversation. You write in the book about having those temptations and working through them. And I guess I just have to ask, how have you how present has that been? And do you feel like you figured out what the support systems you need are when your mind starts to go down those roads?

Uh I I've never I mean uh it's it's been a lot of flux. a lot of flux, you know, uh, and now in 2024 and, you know, with the gigantic election and now here we're living in the in the outcome of it. And, and that's why I've been able to just remain very optimistic and also very grateful. I I think I think that the the governing principle is just gratitude to be on the other side and to to taste and to feel and experience that kind of depression where you start making those kinds of dark calculations to be free of those things and to realize no you can't ever go back to that place.

Yeah. Uh so that's that's really where I'm at. I just want to ask one more question along these lines because you mentioned this in passing in the book. You had a situation where staffers who were close to you, staffers who were quoted at length in this book went public saying they had worries about you, ongoing worries about you. And I know you felt that that was that wasn't a personal betrayal, but it it did raise the question if this was someone close enough to you to be in the book. Did they have a valid concern when they raised that concern?

No. Oh, I mean things things really things the dynamic really changed. Yeah. Um and you know I I think a lot of experts all agree that if someone's concerned about you I'm going to call CNN and I mean like I mean that's very it's very disingenuous.

But now it's like uh I've I've moved on for those things and that's part of the truth where I'm at.

Do you separately I read this book and I wonder do you like being a senator? It seems like you are deeply frustrated with this job and with the system that you find.

I mean, it's incredibly frustrating, but it's absolute honor to represent 13 million Pennians here and and you know, I want to be like I'd like to point this out to your leaders

uh that, you know, my vote record, I'm a 90% vote Democrat. Yeah. And it's like people may be like, really? You know, like it's like, hey, and if you're in a marriage and you you agree 90% of the time, that must be an amazing marriage. Uh I have people they joke to saying, hey, I'm I'm at I'm 53 47. Well, I'm in a marriage now now and and the 5347 finding a way forward. But if we need to be the kinds of big tent party to win and if if anyone is troubled by keeping our government open, that's that's a bridge too far for a Democrat. I would respectfully submit that. I mean, you know, two people can make a valid argument that it's always wrong to shut our government down.

Why do you think that question comes up so much then? I'm sure you're going to be asked a whole bunch of times as you talk about this book. Do you still consider yourself a Democrat? What's your future in the party? Why do you think that keeps coming up given given the percentage that you're talking about? I

I don't know. It's like that's the thing. I I I to me I've always assumed it's like I've never made the conversation or considered ch changing. Yeah.

And and that's and again it's a numbers thing. Look through the record and and that's the thing. 90 90.6% or something. And and that's that's a fact. And um and if I represented like a deep blue state, Massachusetts or in Oregon. Yeah. You know, but but this is the most purple state in the country. And a lot of people, you know, and love voted for the other side. And they're not fascists. They're not Nazis. They're not trying to destroy our constitution and our democracy. And now trying to find a way forward is where I'm in. And and that's that's

Do you think the president himself is in any way, shape, and form trying to destroy our democracy? Not his supporters, the president himself.

What what I I'm seeing though, it's like I disagree with with many of the things that he's uh he's done. And I would I don't understand what the upside for these things. Honestly, people might have been upset just to have dinner with him.

Yeah. You know, you know, he invited I mean, could you imagine if Barack Obama invited a Republican? Hey, let's have dinner. Let's talk.

Yeah. And I won't do that. I'm not going to talk to him. Yeah. People were outraged because there was a spouse that wouldn't shake hands of Camala Harris.

You know, it's just like it's like we have to work together. That's how it that's how it works here. And as if I think that's your job as a US senator, it's like to talk to the president and that happens to be a different uh party.

Yeah. But I guess on as stuff plays out, how do you describe your ongoing view of what the Trump administration is doing when it comes to, you know, charging Democrats with with crimes who who led investigations against him or stuff that he talks about with elections? Like how how do you think about this? Is this is this differences we can work out in the political system? Is it cause for alarm for you? Like what what's the way though you weigh that?

Well, well, of course I I I believe that those people that those charges were were brought uh like Bolton was different. Bolton that that was an investigation that started before under Joe Biden. So like you can remove him out of that and and now so like I I of course that's unacceptable. I would never do those kinds of a thing. Um, and I know they'll be fully vindicated, you know, and and I think that's that's that's that's where that's where we're at. Um, for example, I wouldn't throw a sandwich at at at a member of law enforcement, but I think that was silly and dumb to to bring a charge. You know, if somebody throws a sandwich at me, it's like, hey, you know, like I I just move on with that things. We live in a silly we live in a silly time. Um and we you can't all die on a hundred hills, you know. You really have to pick and choose where you really are alarming or things that you have to move forward in. And shutting our government down absolutely

it's like um I don't think that you're a bad person if you want to shut our government down, but I think it's a strong correlation of people that represent very of a of a deep blue kinds of estate. and now there's no incentive to to reopen it. And yeah,

it's clear though you're frustrated with your party. I mean, I read this book and you feel like the Democratic party has totally walked away from the workingclass people who built this party for 70ome years. You feel like the people that you represent in and around Bradock don't feel a connection to the Democratic party. Oh, well I mean there, you know, and and Bradock there is a strong connection, but and I have lived through this, you know, uh the Trump and I, uh Trump, we came up the same time, you know, my first state state ride state race and his he ran for president and I witnessed on the ground that he was making a connection with a lot of those workers, you know, steel workers and other people in the region. And I was like, why is he doing events in these uh Democratic areas with the steel workers? And I'm like, either either he's crazy or they figured out something out. And clearly they figured out something. And he was able to win in

2016. And here we are nine almost 10 years later and he is front and center. And what have we done wrong? And it's like uh maybe maybe there's some accountability for on our side to figure out a way forward. And that's really what I'm trying to work, you know, in Pennsylvania.

What are some specific areas where you feel like Democratic leaders are just off the tracks in your point of view?

Uh, I mean, I I think I think Democrats can be allowed to have different views on a thing. And I've been I I you know, I was I'm very very pro-immigration, but I think it has to be compatible with a secure border.

Mh. And you know, under the Biden administration, you know, 275,000 people are showing up at the border. I mean, that's not sustainable. And we certainly have no path to give them their American dream.

Yeah. And now we need to secure it. And we do. But I absolutely am appalled and heartbroken. Oh, now they just dropped the re refuge. Um uh I mean if you look what's in the middle of uh written in the Statue of Liberty, you know, take take the tired, broken, and sad. And and it's like um that's that's the promise of America. And refugees are the very best of us. So I absolutely would I disagree with it. And if I talk to farmers, as I often do, and their top issues are labor, labor, labor, because they've targeted these communities. Why?

They're hardworking. They're an important part of our economy. I absolutely don't agree with that and I think that's unamerican.

Can I um you wrote one critique of the party that I kind of underlined in the book and I want to ask you a little bit about what exactly you meant by that. Uh the continued speech and policies against men have not been without consequences. If men are forced to choose between picking their party or keeping their balls, most men are going to choose their balls. What did you mean by that? what it just it just means that you know if people begin to get perceived as being anti-men uh and then that explains why people turn to the and they use phrases like uh bros or the manosphere and they make it seem like that. So I I I I think there's been a disconnection.

So it's more how they talk about it than specific policies. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's just this idea and just uh being perceived as more anti- anti-man or, you know, cancel culture. Um, and and just realizing that um I think that's undeniable and it's just a lot different kinds of energy that comes out from and I think that's why a lot of the men have chosen to walk away from from the Democratic party and we have to figure out why. Are there specific policies you would change or is it just framing changing the way that the party talks about you know

I think it's collectively all of it. So, so why? Um, for example, I'll give you an example. Uh, there was a tragedy in Claritton. Two workers lost their lives and I was in the the union hall and there was a gigantic picture of Trump in in the the union hall. Union Hall, you know, you know, and and it's just like, you know, like, you know, you know, so so that that's the thing. So, can you explain that? Well, it's like part of it, you know, it's this this idea. Aren't you dumb? They you're voting against you're voting against your interest, you know, like, oh, yeah, that's a winner, you know, implying or basically saying, you know, you know, you're voting against your own interest. It's like, well, they have a different sense of values and that's why um that it's like try to meet people where they're at on things. And uh so this idea is the wrong approach saying you're wrong. You're voting against you're voting against your own interest. are

you dumb? You know, it's like no, you have different values and and that's why I respect them and try to find a way forward to make the appeal why that that men have been to walk away from us and and those other kinds of policies too. It it it really comes it really comes down to um the the the cancer the the the cancel co culture and and just uh making it more about things that are not about the the kinds of u relatable issues that are in front of them.

If it was up to you right now we're talking about a week after elections that Democrats mostly felt pretty good about. You know like what kind of

Sure. But but yeah, but but it really wasn't a surprise for me. Yeah. Why is that?

Honestly, uh I mean, look at the individuals that represent in the Senate. Uh you know, all all friends, all great people represent New Jersey and Virginia. Virginia, you know, I mean, it it's not a surprise when blue states vote blue. Uh and

so you didn't feel like we turned the corner, we got this out of that in any way.

Well, I I thought it was like that was a great that was great feedback saying, "Okay, good." Yeah,

but but this is the second term for Trump. So the same thing happened in the first term, you know, like there's big there's backlash of course. I mean, you don't need to have a PhD in in politics to know that there is going to be backlash against the party and in power and doing a lot of convergal things like that. Of course, there's going to be a lot of backlash on that. Uh and then uh so and I was I really appreciated what the governor elected that is not a green light to extend the shutdown. Exactly. Exactly. It's like take the win. Take the win. and and now realize it's like people have been are activated and they're upset by some of these things and and that's why I refuse to continue to keep our government shut down because that makes it seem more if it's a political calculation and I think it's more about a values calculation.

There are a few other things in the book that I wanted to make sure I asked you about. Is it true that you do not have a working relationship these days with Governor Josh Shapiro, your your Commonwealth Governor, that you don't even talk? Uh well, I mean it's it's not as wish I hope it is, but we've always got along great. And and the disagreement began on the the board of pardons. Yeah. Primarily on on on brothers that were innocent and I didn't want them to die in prison. And and that's that's where it started and that's where it ended.

But you wrote that you don't have a talking relationship. How literal is that? Do you not talk to the governor at all?

Uh it's like we haven't spoke in Well, well, we had a we were part of a meeting re recently. Yeah, but but uh that's not new news, you know, that uh but you know, that's that's just kind of where we at on it. But but you know, like you know, I've done I've hosted fundraisers in her home. You know, we were you know, and we don't have any significant differences on our political views. So that doesn't affect your work. It's not it's not I mean it's it's been well documented about the disagreement that that we all centered on on uh some some specific cases on the board of pardons and I'm a big believer in redemption in that cases and and it's about innocent men dying in prison. Mhm. One other thing that kind of pops up in the book a lot is you feel really frustrated at times about how the press covers you and

No, I I wouldn't Well, frustrating, but it I think it's just more about um the the Well, where where are you going with that?

Well, I just there was there was a lot of different lines like the New York Times was trying to cancel me. Um they were they were trying to get a hit piece. I'm not the first f first public figure to get by a reporter and I won't be the last. Like just kind of at a lot of different points of the book. It kind of felt like like you you you feel like the reporters covering you have a personal motivation. And I just want to ask like if that's a blanket view like how you think of this world of of how the press covers politics.

Well, it's it's a matter of when there's two there's two versions and one is true and accurate and one isn't and then to push back. Well, yes, that's that's that was the case. AB: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, when it's just categorically not true and it's just an opportunity to disagree and just the um to describe it as as what it is.

Mhm. Do you feel like that's the case by and large? Do you think that's like the political that's the media landscape you live in right now that people are coming in with a point of view? I'm just trying to understand how you think about this as as a public figure who's written about a lot. what I'm what I'm saying it's like what you know that's the question I would ask is like what exactly am I guilty of you know yeah I I suffered from depression and I made a recovery and I won an election and I went on to be an unapologetic supporter of Israel and I happen to think that we have to have a secure border and I think it's wrong to shut our government down

and do you feel like that's made you a bad guy in a lot of circles uh uh no what I'm saying it's like you know it's fascinating to me how a guy that voted 90% of the Democratic line and now I've been in strange with some people in the Democratic party and I don't really understand perhaps even some of your your listeners I voted against cutting you know the the recisions about this I voted against this look at the record uh for those things um because we have gotten incre increasingly polarized in this in this environment and trying to find a way forward and because it's my personal views, but I also the kinds of states that I represent.

Yeah. Do you think that just comes back to the idea of there's there's a there's a strain of purity in democratic politics right now and you have to be fully in line

or it's like describe describe that if if I have a problem with a guy that votes 90% of the party line, you know, like are you are you what's what's in that 10% difference? Yeah. on that maybe that's you know if maybe maybe have different views uh and I don't judge people on on their views uh and they make it as personal and I'm not going to refer to people those kinds of terrible names.

Yeah. Yeah. What surprised you the most about coming to Washington? You came in pretty intense circumstances that's in the book and that we've talked about. You've been here a couple years since then. how the the lack of glamour, you know, people think it's like it's oh, it's like unless, you know, I have a 300 square apartment and it's like like I um it's it's like um I mean we we have to find a way forward.

Yeah. Based on on and now when you're doing it through the most polarized time.

Yeah. Another thing I I I disagreed with with with my colleagues, Joe Biden. Joe Biden was rough. Absolutely. He had a he had a he had a terrible debate. Yeah.

But it talk about in the book. Mine was worse, you know. I mean, objectively, I think that was worse.

Yeah. Um and I knew it was going to be rough, but I was honest. I mean, people can see exactly where I'm at on things.

Do you think you should have run again? Uh, I'm saying it's like if you blast them out, then you know like then you you need to own the the fallout from it. And that's the point. I mean, uh, I got in an argument with my colleagues. It's like, hey, it's like

we all agree he had a bad debate and I can imagine their reaction after my debate. Oh my god. You know, and they they didn't they didn't say yet. They just kind of like uh and I don't blame him. I don't blame him. And I'm saying it's like if you get what you've demanded.

Yeah. Then you have to own the outcome. And because you campaigned for Biden, you campaigned for Harris. Your fault didn't change. Absolutely. But do you just think it was a bad debate or do you think there were broader problems that maybe Joe Biden was too old to be president for years? I I I think I think that that that Trump is um politically he has figured out things and I've witnessed it in Pennsylvania and after the assassination he was shot in the head and he was able to respond in a way fight and those kinds of iconic pictures and that was shocking and thank god he wasn't his life wasn't taken.

Yeah. You know, could you imagine if what happened with the tragedy of of Charlie Kirk?

Yeah. You know, where would our nation be? Right. It grazes his ear, he pops back up and it seems, you know, and he

Yeah. Well, I mean, if anyone if some if if someone shoots you and you're able to to respond in a way, imagine if that was Barack Obama, what what would that mean for Democrats if if somebody tried to to take him out? Um, and then after that, and then another part was when after vice president referred to him as a fascist. It's like then I'm like, hey, that's that that tells people saying

this is the this is the closing argument from from Vice President Harris. No, more more than a closing argument. It means it's like, well, the people that have voted for him in the past that we need to get them over on your side. Well, then that means you must be a vasist too.

Do you think I just cuz we've talked about this a couple times. Do you think it's a matter of talking about things to not turn off voters or do you think it's a matter of your colleagues are overreacting to the things that are happening in the Trump White House when it comes to what's what's inbounds and what's out of bounds when it comes to what's within the norms? What is concerning for democracy?

Well, I'm not the gatekeeper. It's like someone wants No, but what do you think?

Well, what people thinks, you know, like I'll give I'll give you an I'll give you an example.

Um like the ballroom. Yeah. you know, like I've been to the White House a couple times and um and it's it's it's a living space. It's not a monument kind of a thing. And now I I think actually Bill Maher just said, you know, kind of my view. It's like, you know, you can't have dinners there. You're putting it in tents. Um and it's like they're building a new facility. Like, and now if you look at all the changes that other presidents have made about the White House in the past, it's like, hey, you know what? I mean, obvious it was shocking to actually raise a part of the White House, but but for me, like that's not that's not my hill. It's like, all right, I would

What is your hill then? Like what what's one or two hills for Senator John Federman that this is something that

Yeah. Well, for me, it's the expression sometimes you pick your battles and sometimes they pick you. Um, and for me, you know, that that quickly became um Israel. Yeah. And and for me, like for me, I that moral clarity and I agree for for the death and the misery and it quickly became for the Democratic party who you want to blame, whether you blame for the tragedy on Israel or you blame that on Hamas and Iran and those people and and I've just for me it's it's Israel. Um and another another hill is is like shutting our government down. Yeah, absolutely. That is that is uh

we talked about the shutdown hill since you brought it up. I want to ask about the Israel. You you were very clear. You were very upfront about that. You you never changed your tune. I'm wondering as the Israeli attacks and bombing of Gaza continued. Were there any points where you second guessed the the place that that you had had staked yourself?

Well, I I think we can have to talk about the const of what Israel was able to accomplish. um you know because they were able to neutralize and destroy Hamas and then same with Hezbollah uh and then they had an opportunity to take out the Iranian nuclear facilities. I was the only Democrat that supported that. I was actually charging for those things. You know that's yeah that comes from from Trump. Well then I happen to agree with it. Um, and now can you imagine if they would have acquired a nuclear weapon in there? And now what is behind this constant violence there? Is it Israel or it's because Iran funding these proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah doing these kinds of terrible things and and what they've done and that war would have ended when you sent back all the hostages and agree it's like hey everyone it's like that by definition that's how you end a war. It's like, you know, the loser just handles over his weapons.

So, at no point in the conflict did the balance shift for you as you thought about this in the context. At no point with um you know, 69,000 Palestinians dead, did you think

Well, I mean, if if that's if that's the fact um or but no one breaks down how many actual Hamas fighters or other people that were involved on that, so we're not really sure. and and now the only time you see members in Hamas is when they're handing over funerals and then in cherries and rallying otherwise they embed themselves in the civilians and they were forced to fight a war through an urban situation you know whether it's why are they have all the tunnels under hospitals why can't people condemn putting tunnels under hospitals and embedding themselves in where civilians are and you know because they can't fight a a real war. So that's why they use civilians as human shields. And that's that's the tragedy. And and Israel never described the death of Palestinians as necessary sacrifices. That was actually sinir. He described as this. They are necessary sacrifices for Palestinians to die. So you stake this you stake this point

of view. President Biden was a staunch supporter of Israel when he was in the White House as well, but you've seen how this issue has changed with Democratic voters, with fellow Democrats in Congress. If this is such an important issue to you, how do you move forward in a party where it is a deep deep divide?

I I knew I knew I would lose uh I would lose support. Oh, it's like a difference between not understanding versus knowing but following that I describe like the moral clarity. And that's that's what I've chosen to do. And here we have peace. And and I think I think the the peace deal was a big deal. That was

that was front and center for our country, you know, politically as well too. Um and and now I I can't why we can't just celebrate why what's accomplished now. Finally. Finally, it's it's

a halting ceasefire at this point in time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I'm not surprised that it it it takes uh because people all realize this can't continue and and now finally, you know, we have the path forward because Iran has been put in check and now all of the experts all the experts that maybe you've been on on NPR or in the New York Times or ever, they've been wrong consistently wrong. and what what Israel was able to accomplish now makes peace real possible now. Um and that's why you know reflect on a lot of these kinds of declarations that just turned out was never true uh from experts trying to describe the situation.

So going back the last few years a lot of a lot of the the people who voted for you in primaries a lot of your your colleagues in the Senate were saying all along the US needs to put more pressure on Israel. um when it comes to the the financial aid, the military aid, we need the United States needs to prioritize human rights and make some of this aid conditional. You thought all of those pushes were were wrong?

No. What I'm saying like if you are withholding resources for Israel that undeniably strengthens Hamas or Iran and that's that, you know, and if they want to take that size, that's good on them. But uh I am very firmly unapologetically I mean and now it's part of the iron the irony is like some of the most left part of my party um are supporting the kinds of regimes that have absolutely none of the kinds of values that that uh we want to live and we want to project where that exists is actually in Israel. um you know members uh you know gay and trans people they can live their lives in Israel in places in those other ring that's absolutely unacceptable and gender apartheid and all those other issues very much against progressive kinds of values and you only place where you witness that and that's in Israel and that's part of the the truth in this dynamic. So,

I'm hearing you talk. Is is it fair to say that you think the Middle East is a a more stable place, a better place now than it was 2 years ago?

What I'm saying is is that I would remind people that they had the opportunity to have the the true the the two state solution. I did an event with Bill Clinton actually almost a year ago and I said, "Hey, thank you for your work on this." And yeah, he reminded people like they were offered 96% of the West Bank. They could have had East Jerusalem as the capital of it and they could have spent over the last quarter century rebuilding their own nation, but they rejected that and then they elected Hamas and then that turned into more chaos and more bloodshed. And and that's part of the conversation, too. It's like two-state solution. They don't want a two-state solution.

They they want from the river to Who do you mean when you say they? What do you mean?

Who do you mean when you say they? Are you talking about Palestinians? Are you talking about Hamas? Like who? I'm just

What I'm saying is Hamas doesn't want a two-state solution from the river to the sea is like what's in between those two. They want it. It's like they want to to to destroy Israel.

I guess I'm just wondering how you thought about all of the people who live in Gaza who were not part of Hamas over the last few years. Like how how did you think about that as you decided?

That's part of that's part of the tragedy. That's part of the tragedy. That's why you have to destroy and neutralize Hamas. That's a cancer. That's an absolute cancer. And I want the very best for the the innocent Palestinians. They they deserve to live in peace and I hope they can. And finally, if you can address the cancer of Iran and Hamas, then then there's possible to to rebuild Gaza. And how could you possibly rebuild Gaza if Hamas is is part of their governance? How confident are you what you just laid out is not a very popular view within the Democratic party right now.

It's like that's 8%. Yeah. You know, so how confident are you that in three years time whoever the nominee is for the Democratic party for president views any of that in that way? Or if the nominee is somebody who's deeply skeptical of Israel after this war? Well, I I know it's become very popular to become more and more uh anti-Israel in my party. I I strongly disagree. Uh and now a lot of the candidates now are taking on these very kinds of uh negative views. Uh and and I feel I feel differently. Um and for me, that's been part of something about the moral clarities. And I'll be a Democrat that represents Pennsylvania. Yeah. and tries to find a way forward and they would know what I believe and what I happen to think is yeah is true.

I hear what you're saying in moral moral clarity and I'm just trying to represent the other point of view here that a lot of people saw moral clarity in entire cities being destroyed and lots of children dying and they thought

I have deep concerns about that. Uh are am I concerned about? Yes, absolutely. That needs to end. And the second that they sent back home all of those poor hostages, there is peace now. And and now there's there's no more that kinds of a war. And if you like it comes back to the basic question, you know, who do you blame for those circumstances, Israel or Hamas and Iran? And I firmly hold them. and and I saw that uh Israel and Gaza Dems pull out at 8%.

Yeah, I I know how that goes. And I guess you do keep saying there's peace. There's been a lot of back and forth. There's been ongoing air strikes and stuff like that. Are you confident? Do you feel like this peace is going to hold long term?

I I do. I I I do believe that because what's what's changed? all of the the the nations in the region now say, you know, they're holding Hamas accountable and saying, "Hey, like this can't this can't continue. We have to find a a way forward to rebuild Gaza and now it's part of the Abraham Accords and that's that's a a framework for peace." And do you think President Trump did you prefer President Trump's policies toward Israel or President Biden's as somebody who was deeply staked in this and paying attention? I I followed Israel. I I followed Israel in that in that war. And now I happen to agree with with both presidents at some point, but and at some point that I I started to disagree with with the president like you you can't really try to have it both ways. And I understand things in Michigan, you had to just I don't know. Um, and it's ironic, you know, and that's another thing that has never that I've, you know, there's parts of

Democrats where we're were now pressing to not vote for for for Harris. You know, you know, uncommitted, uncommitted. I've never done that. You know, I campaigned all across my state for Camala Harris, but and there's part of my party or part of my parties they were uncommitted. And that's that's just strange where um why would you do that? Because if you vote for someone other than in that election, then you are effectively voting for Trump.

Mhm. So I guess I want to bring it all back to this to wind this down. You're saying several things at the same time. You're saying I am a Democrat. I vote with my party 90% of the time.

Well, no. No. I don't say that's a fact. Yeah that's okay. We're talking about several things. Yeah. I'm just saying like

we're talking about that fact. We're talking about the fact that there have been deep fissures on Israel and other issues where where you are and where a lot of your party is. And we're talking about the fact that you feel like the party needs to work on on on accepting differences on coming together. And I'm wondering how you think about how do you think about your relationship with with with whether it's voters, whether it's people who are organizers, whether it's members of Congress who you do have those disagreements with. How do you view the disagreements and how do you work through them from your point of view?

I I'm saying it's like my values are reflected in my votes. And if you're in a relationship or whatever, when someone agrees with you nine out of 10 times, I think you probably should get along pretty well. Uh, and now, but

but there's a lot of relationships where that 10% takes up a lot of head space.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I I know and and unfortunately or the reality they all kinds of collided at the same time. Yeah. you know, a after the election and I I witnessed that that you know that the the election was slipping away from us in 2024 and the kinds of mistakes that we made. It's like now it's like I it's like um the kinds of votes and the kinds of values in those circumstances, you know, like

have you decided yet if you're going to run for Senate again? Oh, it's like I'm not talking about 28. Who knows about that?

Do you know how long these things go? I'm just is that is that something you're thinking about? Yes or no? Or do you have an idea in your head?

Well, it's just it's just asking about what's going to happen in 28. It's still 2025 and and I'm like uh that that's that's that's where we are. But but you know, I'll you know like and the people if they're listening uh you know what what's important to me are that um I'm not changing the party and I didn't vote to cut the funding. you know, is that that has impacted this. Um, and um, I know and I love people that are big fans of NPR as well. So, that's part of the truth. I know a lot of people that love Fox News and I know a lot of people that love NPR and things and I read the spectrum and it's like I don't want to be in a bubble and and I would encourage people is it's like challenge your views or see what's behind it. But for me, for lack of a better term, I'm fascinated that a 90% vote them is, you know, have people put me at odds and and now

are you talking mostly about responses in your Twitter feed? Are you talking about the news coverage? Because it does seem to bother you.

Uh, no. I'm I'm not alone. I'm not online at all. I I mean it's like I I participate in in networks or social media, but I've never actually been in it. Like I I do produce the the actual material, but I I don't

when you're talking about reading tweets in your book. Well, can I get back Can I get back to that? It's like I made the mistake after the election. I did a deep dive and it was astonishing. It's astonishing, you know, and it's like I've never going to come back for that and I'm a lot happier and I ask people at the room after spending 90 minutes online, do you feel better about yourself or the world? And not one hand ever comes up and say, "Yeah, I love it." Yeah. You know, I love it.

And that's part of the addiction, too. and and that's part of Tik Tok, you know, and that's why I think the Democratic Party uh you know, the the youth the that vote um 17 17 to1 on the the the pro you know Palestinian or or to pro Israel 17:1 ratio and it's like if the algorithm keeps and then pretty soon it's pretty easy to lose you know the perspective in and that and so I am not online so I don't follow it but I know this morning I checked my colleagues online and they all got terribly ratioed

I mean from the government yeah and and and that's that's the point uh and that's that's part of the truth too and if Democrats are unable to say I am deeply troubled by having 42 million Americans live in this chaos us about food insecurity or we have to pay all of those folks and I do not want to be involved with making flying any safe or more more chaotic.

Yeah. You know that's a reasonable view and after 40 days and I'm willing to bet a lot of my colleagues that keep keeping it shut down are doing a lot of fundraising over that.

Yeah. And monetizing that and you know so that's that's part of it. And do we want to fight our party on the the 10% that you are are you allowed to agree or disagree on those things? And and that's that's that's a conversation. I don't know what the right answer is, but that is a fact. And that's not my opinion. That's just, you know, look at look at the the record. But it's like I'm constantly asked, "Are you changing your party?" I'm like, "No." Yeah. And it it's just it's just kind of like saying it's like, "Hey, are are you a vegan?

Are you vegan?" No. No. Oh, I keep saying it, but but people keep asking because, you know, and then I try to say it's like I mean like I'm listening to an audience that that might be in that space too and it's like

um you know that's not happening and it's like but if you keep asking it it makes it seem like it's more to it and that's part of the frustration. But you're a smart guy and you've been really successful in politics and you have to know that when you talk about Israel the way that we just talked about Israel and had that conversation, you know that that is a top tier issue for so many people who are deeply involved in the Democratic party and they're going to feel really angry that that's your point of view even if even if you're seeing broader support across the state in your approval ratings or whatever. Like you have to know that that will will take a prioritized view compared to to other issues. Well, I mean, overall, I'm I'm I think I'm 10 or 11 points.

Yeah. Up. I mean, look at some of the other like whether it's it's my leader or other people, they're they're deeply underwater, you know, to be up 10 11 points in the most difficult state in the country. It's like, yeah,

hey, you know, and and it's like if you're unhappy as as as a as as a Democrat voting 90% of your time in in a deeply deeply divided state,

you know, and and it's like there's a difference between having bad political instincts or just voting that you're willing to vote and support things even knowing that uh some some people might be um angry by voting in those type of ways,

you know, and and and That's that's the thing. People are upset if I vote for someone and I give the example if people in Pennsylvania listening. Uh I voted for for uh Secretary Duffy, you know, and I didn't call him names.

Transportation Secretary. Yeah. Yeah. Secretary Secretary Duffy. And you know, I worked together to restore $1.2 to three billion dollars in projects that were cut in Pennsylvania. Yeah. That's that's significant and that's important. and and that's why I vote for those folks. It does not mean that I agree with them politically on everything. It's saying we work together and we want to find and fight for wins and that's, you know, because there's no upside except online to call people names, you know, I I don't think trolling is going to win any uh battleground states, you know, and take that for what it really means. And if that's if that's, you know, if that's your vehicle, good on you. But um it is an honest conversation now of

But wasn't wasn't that a big reason why your campaign did so well. The way that your staff poked fun at Dr. Oz and pointed out he was from New Jersey. I mean, like having Snookie record a video is kind of a little bit of trolling, isn't it?

Yeah. Absolutely. Because that was never mean. That was never mean. So that's the difference, too.

Yeah. like that that was that was that was never mean. Um I refused to turn it into say all kinds of things. Um and and and at at that time or you know in the summer of 22 that was the the main tool that I had because I was recovering from the near fatal stroke. Yeah. That too. Um, and uh, it's like trolling and and being effective online is important, but you also have to be um, something to back it to just make an argument to carry like these kinds of states like Pennsylvania.

Yeah. Senator John Federman, thank you so much for talking to us. No, thank thank you and thank you for the opportunity to talk to your leaders be I mean uh to your to your listeners because I never you know cut your funding and and if most of you are are Democrats I am you and uh I'm sorry if anyone has felt um I let something down but I just have some values in uh 10% of of a lot of these things in front of this.

Yeah. Thank you so much, Senator. No, thank you.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Fetterman says most Democrats are wrong on the shutdown, Israel, and the working class"?

In order: 0:00 battleground states, Israel, Pennsylvania, Two-state solution; 5:00 Walter Reed; 10:00 Warren Zevon; 15:00 Alexandra Bolton, Massachusetts, Oregon; 20:00 Manosphere, New Jersey (Jersey), Pennsylvania, Statue of Liberty; 25:00 Board of Pardons, Israel, Josh Shapiro; 30:00 Pennsylvania; 35:00 Israel, Hezbollah; 40:00 Israel, Two-state solution, East Jerusalem, From the river to the sea; 45:00 Israel; 50:00 Israel, Carol Ann Duffy, Pennsylvania; 55:00 battleground states, Dr. Meett Oz, New Jersey (Jersey), Pennsylvania.

What is mentioned in this NPR episode?

32 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Israel, Pennsylvania, Two-state solution, battleground states, New Jersey (Jersey), Board of Pardons. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Fetterman says most Democrats are wrong on the shutdown, Israel, and the working class"?

The episode runs 57 min; the transcript is about 10,236 words in 140 timestamped sections.

More from NPR

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 17, 2025.