Transcript

Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner

From Oprah · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 38 min · 6,555 words · 125 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner", an episode of Oprah published February 3, 2026 (38 min, about 6,555 words). It mentions 13 people, works and ideas, including Awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder, Decker Kelner, University of California, Berkeley, The Science of Happiness, San Quentin.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on the concept of awe as a transformative tool for enhancing happiness and well-being. Dacher Keltner, a psychology professor at UC Berkeley, shares insights from his research on how experiencing awe can ground individuals during challenging times and ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life.

Key takeaways

  • From being wound up to teaching happiness, Decker Kelner proves that vulnerability fuels authenticity.
  • Awe, the unsung hero of mental health, offers solace amid the chaos of modern life.
  • Collective effervescence: when shared experiences elevate us, tearing down the walls of loneliness.
  • Meditation mishaps remind us that laughter can be as healing as silence in our quest for peace.
  • Wonder is the brain's curiosity after awe; together, they unlock the door to deeper understanding.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder, Decker Kelner, University of California, Berkeley, The Science of Happiness
  2. – 10:00: Rachel Carson, Audrey McDonald, Dion Warick, Glattis Knight
  3. – 30:00: John Jarvis
  4. – 35:00: San Quentin, Sierra Club
  5. – 38:09: Awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder, The Science of Happiness, Nelson Mandela

Notable quotes from "Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner"

  • Of us can access at any time and anywhere, no matter your background, no matter your circumstances. His name is Decker Kelner and he's a professor of psychology at the…
    about Decker Kelner · at
  • I remember just recently this past year I went to see Gypsy with Audrey McDonald.
    about Audrey McDonald · at
  • Yeah. I was lucky to be raised by parents who really cultivated a sense of wonder. Rachel Carson, the great environmentalist, teach your child to wonder. And I had a younger brother Ralph who was a companion in awe and we you know we grew.
    about Rachel Carson · at
  • Yeah. And you can go for $20. It's anybody goes. There's a program for fourth grade kids to go put together by John Jarvis, the former director of the parks. So, it's a unifying American experience and it transcends our.
    about John Jarvis · at
  • I've worked on, is horrific. It's a form of cruel and unusual punishment. So I go in, I'm giving a talk in this program. There are 180 prisoners. all of them work out a lot. I…
    about San Quentin · at
  • Have been. And I was privileged to work with Stacy Bear who's a veteran with the Sierra Club. And Stacy is a pioneer in grappling with the trauma of veterans. they have twice…
    about Sierra Club · at
  • Hope that you all begin to take awe walks for yourselves and find more awe in your everyday. The book Awe, the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life…
    about Awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Decker Kelner — Person · Main guest · 1 mention · first at
    Primary interview subject explaining the science of awe, its health benefits, and practical exercises like awe walks.
  • Rachel Carson — Person · Referenced expert / inspirational figure · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as an authority on cultivating wonder in children, supporting the episode’s theme that awe can be taught and practiced.
  • Nelson Mandela — Person · Referenced moral exemplar · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a powerful instance of 'moral beauty'—a core source of awe—illustrating how witnessing courage and justice can be awe-inducing.
    Was yeah, this that's what grounded me in life is nature and the moral beauty of seeing Nelson Mandela come out of prison and Oakland.
  • Audrey McDonald — Person · Referenced performer (example of awe via performance) · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as an example of awe triggered by extraordinary theatrical performance (Oprah describes an 'out of body' reaction).
  • John Jarvis — Person · Referenced public official · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced to support the point that U.S. national parks are a unifying, accessible source of awe (including a program for 4th graders).
  • Dion Warick — Person · Referenced performer (example of collective effervescence) · 1 mention · first at
    Named as part of a gospel brunch lineup used to illustrate shared awe and emotional synchrony in a crowd.
    Yeah. I remember having a gospel brunch here on the lawn many years ago and I had Glattis Knight and Dion Warick and Mariah Carey and all of them were here and someone was…
  • Glattis Knight — Person · Referenced performer (example of collective effervescence) · 1 mention · first at
    Named as part of a gospel brunch lineup used to illustrate 'collective effervescence'—shared awe through music and group experience.
    Yeah. I remember having a gospel brunch here on the lawn many years ago and I had Glattis Knight and Dion Warick and Mariah Carey and all of them were here and someone was…
  • Mariah Carey — Person · Referenced performer (example of collective effervescence) · 1 mention · first at
    Used as a recognizable example of a performer whose live presence can generate collective awe in an audience.
    Yeah. I remember having a gospel brunch here on the lawn many years ago and I had Glattis Knight and Dion Warick and Mariah Carey and all of them were here and someone was…

Books & papers

  • Awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder — Book · Primary recommendation · 2 mentions · first at
    Main subject of the podcast, discussed extensively by the guest as a transformative guide to finding awe in daily life.

Companies & orgs

  • University of California, Berkeley — Company · Affiliation · 1 mention · first at
    The guest, Dacher Keltner, is a professor at this university, which adds credibility to his expertise on the topic of awe.
    Anywhere, no matter your background, no matter your circumstances. His name is Decker Kelner and he's a professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, and…
  • Sierra Club — Company · Case study · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of using awe and nature to help veterans heal from trauma.

Places & events

  • San Quentin — Place · Setting · 4 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as a place where the guest conducted research and witnessed the transformative power of awe in a challenging environment.

Media & podcasts

  • The Science of Happiness — Media · Referenced work · 2 mentions · first at
    A podcast hosted by the guest, mentioned as part of his background in studying happiness and awe.
    California, Berkeley, and the host of the award-winning podcast, The Science of Happiness. I didn't even know there was such a podcast until researching for this. And I just…

Full transcript with timestamps

I love how you begin the book, your introduction. This is funny to me. You said, "I have taught happiness to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. It's not obvious why I ended up doing this work. I've been a pretty wound up anxious person for significant chunks of my life." And I love this. And was thrown out of my first meditation class for laughing while we chanted, "I am a being of purple fire." When I read that, I was like,

"What kind of meditation class was that? I'm a being of purple fire." Yep. My best friend memo and I got tossed out of that class in college. Yeah. You know, and and that's the point, you know, I struggle to meditate. I am wound up. I can't. That's just what I got, you know, in my nervous system. And awe really, as I wrote this book in a very hard time in my life, I was like, "Yeah, this that's what grounded me in life." Hi everybody and welcome to the Oprah podcast. I'm so pleased, honored actually that you chose to spend time with us here where our my intention is to offer some inspiration and maybe a bit of breathing space from the hustle of your day or from the endless barrage of news hitting your timeline. Uh hope you all are watching that being careful about that cuz it can just be too much.

But I'm excited for you to hear from my guest today because he spent decades studying, searching, researching for the secret to this question. How can we live a good life? Yeah, that's really what we all are in search of, right? How can we live a good life? And he says the answer is really simple and something any one of us can access at any time and anywhere, no matter your background, no matter your circumstances. His name is Decker Kelner and he's a professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, and the host of the award-winning podcast, The Science of Happiness. I didn't even know there was such a podcast until researching for this. And I just recently read his best-selling book, Awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder, and how it can transform your life. Now I read it and thought this man is speaking my language and that's why he's now here in the tea house. Der Kelner. Hello.

Hello Oprah. It's nice to be with you. Nice to be an honor. Thank you. When you first started on this path, I think you found there wasn't even a real definition of awe. So what is awe? Let's start with letting everybody know what we're actually talking about.

Yeah, that's actually a tough question, right? People trying to define the sense of the mystical and the sublime and

and the word awesome is thrown around as a a little too much these days. Yeah. So awe is an emotion you feel when you encounter vast things most typically giant redwoods, right? A vast piece of music. Uh somebody who really inspires you with their the size of their character

and then it's mysterious to you. you don't quite understand it immediately and it provokes you to wonder. So very simply, awe is when we encounter vast mysteries.

Awe and wonder are the same thing. No, I philosophers pull awe and wonder apart. Awe is an emotion you feel. I see an incredible tree or a sunset. And then wonder is the cognitive state after

awe by which I try to make sense of things. Right. Right. One of my favorite examples is Newton and Decart were these famous scientists and philosophers and they were aruck by rainbows.

You know how how do rainbows exist? And then in a state of wonder, they figured it out. They did math and color theory and figured out how when light bends through water, it produces a rainbow.

Ah, so awe and wonder obviously are not the same. Wonder is what comes after the awe moment,

right? Okay. and tell us why I as you do in the book but most people who are listening to us now probably haven't read a

so tell us why it matters well when you look at our world Oprah and you see the crises of mind you know depression and anxiety at historic highs

body a lot of people are suffering pain and community you know our surgeon general former surgeon general Vivc Murthy

whom you know well the the crisis of loneliness. Loneliness. A minute of a day helps us with those crises. It makes you feel less depressed and more happy. It helps your body physically.

Uhhuh. And it it even if you experience awe by yourself with music or nature, you feel connected to community. And so it, you know, when I started to look at these scientific findings and thinking about our crises, our shared crises, I was like, you know, there's almost nothing better than a couple minutes of awe a day.

Yes. And nothing is better also than shared awe which you call collective effrovescence.

Collective effrovescence. And a lot of people who are listening and watching us right now, you all have experienced this.

Yeah. You know, I I I remember having a gospel brunch here on the lawn many years ago and I had Glattis Knight and Dion Warick and Mariah Carey and all all of them were here and someone was passing the mic and literally everybody in the audience all of us were in collective effervescence. We had never seen anything like it or experienced anything like it. And it was like the spirit came in to each of them and then entered us. It was spectacular. But lots of people experience this in sports sporting events.

Yeah. Concerts. Yeah. I remember just just uh recently this past year uh I went to see um Gypsy with Audrey McDonald.

Uhhuh. And that performance of hers was out. I just started weeping now. was out of body.

Yeah. Was an outof body experience and so was Nicole in Sunset Boulevard. Out of body. So you you were just amazed that a human being can do that. I was like I literally afterwards wrote both of them a letter saying to see somebody vibrating at the at their highest level possible which is no that it doesn't get any higher than that.

Yeah. Brings awe to you. It does. And and it's just remarkable. And I love your descriptions of it, Oprah. I mean, music's a classic example of gospel music as good as any, right? And it it astounds me and it speaks to how ready we are to experience awe, which is you can go hear music that means a lot to you.

And within a millisecond, you are having goosebumps. You're tearing up. You're synchronizing with other people.

And it is an outof body experience. You leave the self. Yeah. And become part of this collective. and you're hugging each other and crying and

proposing camping trips, you know, that's the collective effervescence you talked about. Well, in awe, one of the things uh the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. One of the things you did was you asked over 2,000 people Yeah.

from all over the world, different faiths, different backgrounds, different life situations, different educations, and you asked them, "What is an experience of awe that you've had when you encountered the a vast mystery?" um that transcends your world. I'm asking that of you all now. For you it was I mean what most people wouldn't consider an awesome moment, but for you it was the death of your younger brother.

Yeah. Can you tell us that story? Yeah. You know, uh I was lucky to be raised by parents who really cultivated a sense of wonder. You know, Rachel Carson, the great environmentalist, teach your child to wonder. And uh I had a younger brother Ralph who was a companion in awe and we you know we grew up listening to music in the late60s in Laurel Canyon and wandering the foothills of the Sierras and we did all of the awe inspiring things in life together. And when he passed away first uh it it was at grief it was pure grief and panic and anxiety and and the moment of his passing was all inspiring. It was, you know, seeing something transcendent about his bo, something there in his spirit, seeing the space around him as he was leaving reveal new dimensions out there. I'm a scientist, you know, I didn't know what to make of this. I had no religious background.

And then the big question, which is how is he going to stay with me? And through grief, I heard his voice. I felt his hand on my back. He was saying things to me. And he he changed how I look at the universe. that there are other dimensions

that we don't understand. Uh that beings who leave us can be with us forever. Uh and that there's a cycle to life and that's one of the wonders of life is the extraordinary miracle of life is its beginning, its growth and its ending and that it repeats itself. That's just a law of the universe was the first time I understood that when I had to see my brother die.

Yeah. Yeah. And you said that after your brother's death that you lost your ability for a while to experience awe.

Yeah. Why? From the grief. Yeah. I I mean grief you shut down. Yeah. Grief is panic and breathlessness and waking up at all hours and grasping for who was gone. My brother and I shared a narrative about life. I couldn't hear his voice that I heard all the time. And it was strange. Oprah, here I was studying this emotion, giving it to people, and I just couldn't feel it, you know.

So, how did you get it back? I I very intentionally said, you know, I'm going to go in search of the wonders of life. I'm going to find some moral beauty. I'm going to fi be out in nature. I'm going to listen to music that I don't understand, like classical music, or I'm going to think about uh the big ideas that matter to me. And so it took a while but it it changed my life.

And it so I I like the idea of people understanding that there is awe in the everyday.

Yeah. So are you one of those people who as a scientist you've written the book and then do you actually practice it?

Yes. Do you find awe in your everyday? Yeah. I you know I think one of the most important findings from our research is people think awe is mysterious. It takes a lot of money. You got to travel somewhere to find it. And that's just not true around the world. People feel awe a few times a week. And in those stories we gathered from 26 countries. It was it was right around them. You know, and Einstein said awe is a basic state of the mind that we can f access any time. And so I make it a practice to find on a daily basis.

You say there are eight experiences that inspire people to feel awe. You call them actually the eight wonders in life. People may be surprised to learn what the most common reason for awe is. I know y'all are going to be surprised by this.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is, you know, um I'm not because I experienced it every day, 25 years of doing a show and seeing it happen.

Yeah. You have a career that that cultivates moral beauty. Um, and when we got these stories rolling in from Indonesia and China and Mexico and other countries, the most common source and and most universal is what we call moral beauty, which is when you are moved by the courage and kindness, sense of justice and humility of other people. And it is, you know, people start writing about, oh yeah, my my grandmother or my my teacher, you know, often teachers, uh, this nurse who helped me with pain, my mother, my father, etc. And the stories are astonishing, you know, of of encountering a fellow human, stands up to injustice, uh, or gives away some resources or is courageous facing. I remember watching the news and seeing a young burly black guy standing out in the middle of water and this was either a flood in Houston or flood in Dallas. I can't remember which flood it was. But he'd been out there all day just, you

know, handing down sandbags. And I remember him, you know, looking exhausted but exuberant. Yeah.

And him saying, "This is what Texans do." Wow. This is what Texans do. And my eyes watered when I when I when I saw it because I just thought, "Wow, you know, he's tired. He's got his own family, but he's out there and this is what Texans do." So, seeing someone do something extraordinary for somebody else.

Yeah. I remember years ago there was a Maxwell House coffee commercial around Christmas time and there was an elderly lady and the young woman next door goes and takes a Christmas tree and they put the ornaments on the Christmas tree together and then have a cup of Maxwell House coffee and at the end of it I'm like that's commercial moral beauty, right?

Yeah. But the idea of sharing what you have with someone who doesn't. It is. But but it's just remarkable to me that you can see a stranger helping another person in the streets. You don't know any of these people and you're tearing up, right? You can hear a story from another country about the courage of a a woman facing a disease and it can change your life, right? And that

is a mystery for me scientifically. How why is it that that's so powerful? But it definitely is the universal source of all.

So that is the number one. It is wonder of life is people experiencing other people doing extraordinary awesome things.

Yes. And you call that moral beauty. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And and because it evokes this this feeling like you said of tearing up and it's almost like you're hearing a phenomenal piece of music.

Humans seem beautiful. They seem transcendent, right? They're not part of the mundane world anymore. So it has this beauty quality to it that we've been interested in for a long time.

So what are the other seven? We talked about number two which is uh collective effervescence right that's being in the that's everybody in the football game and the your team and feeling that that

yeah or the gospel concert or the gospel concert or wherever the collective effervescence

and the third is nature. Yeah. Let's talk about that. Yeah. I I mean you know the the science is a great place to begin. Uh people know nature is awesome, you know, from oceans to clouds to redwood trees to flowers to spring to the sounds of birds. And the science is astonishing, which is that we're we're now learning that we are wired to be inspired and moved by nature. You know, if I hear running water, it activates parts of my heart, right, that calm me down. If I hear bird song, parts of the brain light up that feel rewarding. If I smell certain scents

like the trees around here, that activates specific chemical processes in your brain that make you feel

part of something larger, the ecosystem. Yeah. And isn't that the whole idea of every awesome experience

is that it takes you out of your ego self. Yeah. And allows you to feel that you are a part of something bigger than your small self.

And and that took us 10 years to figure out. And you just put it in one sentence. So, thanks a lot. But you know it. Yeah. Time and time again, we started to realize that moments of awe and nature, moral beauty, music, etc. that nagging voice of the ego quiets down. Your to-do list and your sense of status and what it just quiets down. In fact, the brain regions

of the ego quiet down. Right. And importantly what you said which is you become more aware of how you're connected to larger things than you. Be it a musical tradition, gospel music, uh a social cause, the environment around you, the garden,

that's really what's going on. That is what's going on. And and that even in that collective effervescence, what you're really feeling is that you're a part of something that's bigger than you.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's profound. And it's profound and needed. The fourth is music.

Yep. We talked about that. Fifth is visual design. I thought that was interesting. Like great architecture or paintings.

Yeah. I mean, you think about the, you know, the Islamic tile patterns or the messoamerican basket weaving and sculptures and and temples and and our minds are wired to detect these sacred geometries of the visual world

even though we don't even know that's what we're detecting. Yeah. you know, but you feel struck by the facade of a cathedral or some painting. I was lucky to be raised by a painter, my dad, who got me looking at paintings early in life and they changed my life. They And so, yeah, we the visual world is a very rich realm of awe to explore.

And then spiritual or religious experiences. Yeah. And it's important because you know in this complicated time in American history, spirit and religion can divide. And in some sense, as William James argued, underlying that is this feeling of the divine or mystical experience.

81% of Americans feel a sense of the divine. Half of those people find it in nature.

And awe is the emotion that tracks that relationship to spirit and the divine. one of the many sort of transcendent emotions like

stories also of life and death. Number seven, yeah, tell us about that. Yeah, you know, we started getting stories around the world watching uh children be born, infants be born, grandmothers parents friends relatives, you just see life come in, the life cycle begins. Uh likewise, you could now think about, you know, why are people aruck by spring, right? Because it's this maximum moment of life in nature. It's like everything is blooming,

booming in blooming. Yes. Coming forth, right? Life. Yeah. But life, it's a law-like pattern. It it ends. And I remember Oprah um when I started to talk publicly about the science before the book. I remember very clearly this uh I was just asking this group like when have you felt awe and this woman raises her hand and she said I was holding my sister's hand as she had her last breath in life and I was aruck by her be place in my life that things like this end she continues like I felt with my brother Ralph and so the life cycle is a very underappreciated but reliable source of all

well also that brings us to number eight which is uh epiphies or suddenly understanding the essential truths about life. Yeah.

Which is what happened to you also with your brother in in that space right when he was dying.

Yeah. It it you know and and people feel awe about these big ideas you know AI quantum physics you know evolution etc. And for me the challenge of my brother's passing not only concretely to live a life without my companion my brother

was to understand what life means you know which is it is a cycle um for us physically and we we all have to lose people um you know Buddhism the first noble truth is we we grasp that suffering and things continue and they go onward and we grow uh and we learn and for me I had to grasp that we're not just cells and neurons and bodies that we're more um out of the experience and that and I feel that to this day that you know I feel my brother's with me uh and that there's something beyond what I thought was all that there is to to nature.

This has to be physically good actually physically good for us too. I mean, I would think your blood pressure goes down your and all the other things in your body that need to mellow out and chill.

Yeah. When you're experiencing if you've had an awesome moment or an awefilled moment that it would change your neurosystem.

I even felt it when you were describing this gospel concert. I started to feel my body change and and we've made a lot of progress in understanding that. And what we know, you know, is a couple minutes of awe um reduces uh physical pain. It reduces long COVID symptoms. It benefits your heart by activating what's called the vagus nerve, this big bundle of nerves in your chest that calms your body down. Like you said, it reduces inflammation in the body. The immune system heats up your body to kill pathogens. If you feel chronically threatened by poverty or racism or misogyny and your your body will be heated up, inflamed, it's a very troubling condition for your health. Awe cools down that system. I I mean it's amazing and and so it makes me bullish in in promoting this to medical doctor.

And how is it different than gratitude? Because I've had a gratitude practice uh for decades now where I do five things. I have volumes of gratitude journals. I'm constantly always, even when I'm just walking around, you know, my property here in a state of gratitude, appreciation, uh, reverence. Yeah.

But awe is something different. It is. And we call these these self-trcendent emotions where you get out of the self and really appreciate what's around you. Reverence, like you said,

very much love that word. Gratitude is is really not as mysterious as awe. Yeah.

And it's really about more concrete things in your world. Yeah. That you appreciate,

right? That you appreciate. Awe is fundamentally about something vast that you don't understand. It's mysterious.

So, I mean, after reading your book, Awe, I was thinking differently about, you know, my everyday experiences. And one of the experiences that I've shared with you all here before that I still love and I still think it's an a and I was the other day is this an awe moment or is this a gratitude moment? What is it that moment where you're on the plane? You probably experienced it because you couldn't get in at first because of fog. But there's that moment that no matter how rainy, dreary, miserable it is. You shoot through the clouds and you're up above the clouds.

Oh yeah. And you're looking down through the clouds. Yeah. I am in awe every time that happens. Yeah.

I'm just like, how am I up here? And that's all, right? Suddenly you're like, this is vast.

I used to be on the earth and now it's I'm in space. Yeah. And now I'm here. Yeah. And it's how did this happen? How do planes work? You know,

and it's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a and and you know that's just a classic experience of all which is you suddenly encounter something vast and you can't the your ordinary mind if you will you know just making sense of our daily lives can make sense of it and I feel that about flying too just you know um appreciating the earth from 30,000 ft.

Yeah. And I have you one of my I've had 21 dogs and now Satie is uh about to she's going to turn 17 and the other day we were walking her and she has trouble getting down the stairs sometimes. Right. So now I carry her down the stairs

and then we were out on the yard and she just started canering like running. Yeah.

And I stood there I think I was in awe like how is she doing that when you can't walk down the stairs?

Yeah. Yeah. I I think that you know it's almost like moral beauty, right? Which is we marvel at the the exceptional qualities of other life forms around us. Yeah.

And so you're sensing something a spirit in her, a transcendent spirit, which something came over her and she just decided I'm going to run across this yard.

A Yeah. You talked about in in in awe you talked about these fractious times. I mean

Yeah. Oo, politically, socially, culturally, how do you think awe or if it can be a bridge

Yeah. to help heal divisions? Is that possible? Yeah, I I I do. I mean, you know, I'm always worried about structural things, racism, misogyny, inequality, but um but I do feel that the and we have empirical data for this that feelings of awe socially make you appreciate your shared humanity. Um and they make you aware of the bigger thing that you're part of, right? uh and uh our study found that people on opposite sides of the issues of police brutality and abortion once they felt awe they didn't demonize or dehumanize their opponents right they saw the humanity in them

and you know Oprah when you think about um there are uh sources of awe uh that unite people uh in this country 330 million people go to the national parks it is unlike anything. Uh and and they are really

they're environmentalists, they're radicals, they're hunters, they're, you know, sports people and and it unites them in a sense of common spirit. Um so it's uh worth remembering the big sources of awe that bring us together. The Constitution is all inspiring as a document.

I didn't know that 300 million people would go to the national parks. Yeah. And you can go for $20. It's anybody goes. There's a program for fourth grade kids to go put together by John Jarvis, the former director of the parks. So, it's a unifying American experience and it transcends our concerns in the moment about, you know, taxation or immigrants or the like. So, there are things that we can cultivate.

So, our culture, as you know, is obsessed with this whole idea of ranking who's best and

win-win and how and you know, who's number one and who's not. So the question is how can schools, how can families, how can communities make space for awe for children

growing up in an achievementdriven achievementoriented environment. Yeah. I mean I worry about this a lot and having raised two daughters and uh teach young people up at Berkeley and see the effects of our times 90% rise in anxiety in young people. 90% rise.

Yeah, it's epidemic. And so, um, what the science of awe, uh, tells us is, uh, get them off the junk of their devices. And there's a lot of moral ugly.

We know that. We know that. Yeah. Let them wander. Give them more spare time. And then, you know, let them do the things that we deprioritize of music and visual art. And um and the ones that I really like, Oprah, that I think we've deemphasized are moral beauty. You know, get them to reflect on the people who move them. And then, you know, I think every child should be thinking about the big ideas they care about. And our educational system has kind of I see this in our colleges. they we don't think about like what's what's what's the singular thing you want to be part of, you know,

that you learn from in history. Uh is it justice? Is it amiliarating suffering or what have you? And so I think we've got to return to these these old ways that we used to find meaning.

How would you advise those of us who are looking for more awe in our life? What is an awe practice? Well, one of my favorites we tested, which is the Awok. The Awok.

And this is with Virginia Sturm at uh UC San Francisco. We tested it with people over the age of 75 or they're feeling a little more anxious and painful. Uh and once a week you go out, a lot of people are walking in the United States. And you look for awe. You look for

natural awe, right? uh you go you do your walk at sunset or you go to a stand of trees, you look for moral beauty, you may go visit walk past a park, right, where the kids are playing and all the wonders of play. So So all you have to do uh if you're looking for awe is is uh build it into your daily routines. Um

looking for aw walks. Yeah. And there thousands of them are being uh led by practitioners of awoks now around the world. And it's an easy thing to do. A lot of people find their best exercise in walking and and now just make it include a little mystery and wonder.

Well, I had speaking of mystery and wonder, I had uh Michael Pollen on and we were talking about the effects of and and also the late Dr. Roland Griffith.

Yeah. And we're talking about the effects of psychedelics. What is the connection between psychedelics and awe?

Yeah. Well, um, you know, and it's it's a little comical that it took a while to realize this in the scientific community, but psychedelics or spirit medicines in indigenous traditions produce these self-trcendent states where the self quiets down and vanishes and dissolves to use Michael's language and opens us up to awe, right? and and now several labs really feel that's the active ingredient of uh a psychedelic experience is to feel a deep sense of reverence and connection to an ecosystem to feel uh really moved by the compassion of fellow human beings to feel music in a different way and and that's true I mean in those experiences awe is driving a lot of the benefits you get from psychedism

I hope those of you who are listening Incorporate this idea into your own life. The idea of an awe walk. And one of the things I appreciate about the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. Awe. What I appreciate about it is is it doesn't matter where you live.

Yeah. Or if you have a PhD or no D, it makes no difference your life circumstances.

Your ability to experience awe is within reach of every human being. even at San Quinton prison.

Yeah. So tell us about your experiences there. Yeah. Um you know I had the great privilege of um being part of the restorative justice program uh at San Quentin prison and I went in um and that's a remarkable program that's built on the idea of moral beauty that you know all humans uh have goodness within them that they can find with the right guidance and practice. um even if they've perpetrated harms and the like. And so I go in and give a talk, you know, and I think every American should go into an American prison uh and just to see that part of our state and it's astonishing. It's, you know, it's uh you don't have the wonders of life readily available. Solitary confinement, which I've worked on, is is horrific. It's a form of cruel and unusual punishment. So I go in, I'm giving a talk in this program. There are 180 prisoners. Uh all of them work out a lot. I was the smallest person in that building, you

know, and they would have twisted me up like a pretzel. Uh and they are working hard. And I and I at in the middle of my talk, I was like, I have to do this. And I said, what what brings you awe in San Quentin? And there's this there's this quiet. And then the answers came, you know, pouring forth and it was, you know, my grandchild, learning how to read, uh, getting my college diploma, uh, you know, the Quran, meditating,

my SI, yeah, you know, being outside and seeing the the baylight, you know, San Quinton's on the San Francisco Bay. And I, you know, Oprah, I was like, these are the best answers I've ever heard. you know, they are a lesson that we can find awe anywhere, right? And um and we can cultivate awe in the hardest places. And then, you know, my experience in San Quentin and I will call out Darnell Washington who's now he led the restorative justice programs. He's a dear friend outside. He's teaching yoga and meditation that he learned inside to kids in LA. And we know that those programs work. There's an 80% drop in incarceration rates for young people because of people like Darnell. And when I look at his career, I'm like, it keeps me it inspires me. So, it was a life-changing experience

cuz we know that it seems to quiet the ego and help reduce stress and it it can be a part of also healing trauma.

Yeah. As you're talking about, that's why you don't have 80. That's why you have 80%. Right. Exactly right.

Healing trauma and grief or loss. And so many people who are traumatized are actually really grieving.

Yeah. Well put. Really well put. You know I they're grieving the life that they wish they'd had. They're grieving mistakes they've made. They're griev grieving.

Yeah. The family could what they could have been. And I was privileged to work uh with Stacy Bear who's a veteran with the Sierra Club. And Stacy is a pioneer in grappling with the trauma of veterans. You know, they have twice the rates of PTSD as of civilians. And his wisdom coming out of his life was get veterans outdoors. You know, get them on rock climbing and rafting and backpacking and skiing. Uh you know, they don't necessarily want pharmaceutical cocktails. They want

to challenge themselves and to find their courage. And so we took veterans on a a half-day rafting trip on the American River where my brother and I used to raft which was amazing and it led to a 32% drop in PTSD and you know for a week right and so for those of us who are experiencing trauma uh or grief be thinking about those immersive experiences of awe right uh like that half-day rafting 32% drop in in all the symptoms of PTSD. And so, yeah, it I am really excited about how awe can be a tool for transforming grief and trauma.

Yes. And so, you wrote the book because you wanted the experience for the reader to result in what?

You know, Oprah, I've been teaching happiness for 25 years. Yeah. begin the book talking about teaching happiness. Yeah.

And you know the world has changed and you know the loneliness and anxiety and self harm and depression and opioid use and and uh and what I wanted to give people was the idea that they can experience awe whenever they're wanting to.

I love how you begin the book. Your introduction this is funny to me. You said I've taught happiness to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. It's not obvious why I ended up doing this work. I've been a pretty wound up, anxious person for significant chunks of my life. And I love this. And was thrown out of my first meditation class for laughing while we chanted, I am a being of purple fire. And when I read that, when I read that, I was like, what kind of meditation class was that? I'm a being of purple fire.

Yep. My best friend memo. I got tossed out of that class in college. Yeah. You know, and and that's the point which is, you know, I struggle to meditate. Uh I I am wound up. I can't that's just what I got, you know, in my nervous system. Uh and uh and awe really as I wrote this book in a very hard time in my life. I was like, yeah, this that's what grounded me in life is nature and the moral beauty of seeing Nelson Mandela come out of prison and Oakland.

Wasn't that a day? I was just like, I think about that and I had just got goosebumps, you know, that's with me today. So, it was awe that that lifted me up.

Wow. I appreciate you coming on, flying all the way through the fog, making it here. Thank you, Derer Kelner, for this awe inspiring conversation. I hope that you all begin to take awe walks for yourselves and find more awe in your everyday. The book Awe, the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life is available wherever you buy your books. Come hang out with us again next week. Go well. You can subscribe to the Over Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks everybody.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner"?

Oprah Winfrey (Guest), Dacher Keltner (Guest).

What is "Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner" about?

The discussion centers on the concept of awe as a transformative tool for enhancing happiness and well-being. Dacher Keltner, a psychology professor at UC Berkeley, shares insights from his research on how experiencing awe can ground individuals during challenging times and ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life.

What is mentioned in this Oprah episode?

13 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder, Decker Kelner, University of California, Berkeley, The Science of Happiness, San Quentin, Rachel Carson. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner"?

The episode runs 38 min; the transcript is about 6,555 words in 125 timestamped sections.

More from Oprah

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 3, 2026.