Even MAGA Is FED UP With Trump's DERANGED Bullsh*t

What this episode is about

The content discusses the growing discontent among MAGA supporters towards Donald Trump, highlighting bizarre conspiracy theories circulated by Candace Owens and increased dissatisfaction within the base. Additionally, it covers recent tragedies, including the deaths of American servicemen in Syria and a mass shooting at Brown University, as well as critiques of government responses and ongoing media issues involving CNN and the Washington Post.

Key takeaways

• Candace Owens vs. Charlie Kirk: Conspiracy or Comedic Misdirection? It’s a wild GOP rodeo out there!
• Patel tweets, mistakes continue; Twitter blue check doesn’t equate to competent FBI leadership.
• Mass shootings: heartbreaking status quo. Yet Brown students facing déjà vu? Schools need solutions, not blame.
• Trump’s retaliation warning: Syria troop's mission unclear. Time for strategic reflection or endless loop, anyone?
• Heroic fruit-seller thwarts Sydney massacre; a poignant reminder that true courage knows no religion.

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Mass shooting, 2028 speculation, AI-generated podcast, Akmed Al Akmed
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Trump derangement syndrome (TDS), BB Netanyahu, Don Bacon, Mike Lawler
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Macrons, Mark Mitchell, PragerU, The Daily
4. 30:00 – 40:00: BetterHelp, home security system, Brigitte Macron, COP meeting
5. 40:00 – 50:00: AI-generated podcast, Ask The Post AI, French Laundry, Healthcare for undocumented people
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Helix mattress, Chinos, Down jackets, Drones
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: The Outpost, Inspector General, Pete Hegseth, Race Against Terror
8. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: 1998 embassy bombings, Christmas Day bomber, Dave Bitkau, Drone strikes
9. 1:20:00 – 1:30:00: Director of National Intelligence (DNI), Eastern District of New York, Enemy combatants, Extrajudicial killing
10. 1:30:00 – 1:35:40: Presidential debate, Race Against Terror

Notable quotes from "Even MAGA Is FED UP With Trump's DERANGED Bullsh*t"

• That its parent company is for sale, the decimation of the Pentagon press corps and his new book, Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al-Qaeda Killer in the Dawn of the Forever…

  about Race Against Terror · at 0:34

• His massive, unyielding, and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump derangement syndrome, sometimes referred to as TDS. May Rob and Michelle rest in…

  about Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) · at 11:43

• Who don't know, she was at TPOS, then went to PragerU for a while, then was at the Daily Wire where they fired her for being anti-Semitic, and now she's on her own. and she…

  about The Daily · at 26:13

• News cycle, but we can help you feel more calm and secure when you're at home with the Simply Safe home security system. Simply Safe is for people who want real proactive…

  about home security system · at 30:33

• And lock in your discount. There's no safe like Simplysafe. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy can give you the space to create new meaningful traditions, give…

  about BetterHelp · at 31:42

• Cozy blankets, and your cozy mattress and watch some TV. That's why you need a new Helix mattress. You spend more time on that thing than you do anywhere else. Sleep is even…

  about Helix mattress · at 49:57

• New toy of an expanded presidential power and the next president takes it and goes wild. Bush did drones, Obama went crazy with drones. Now Trump is using the same justification to go after drug traffickers. It's all just it keeps going and.

  about Drones · at 59:06

• So I hadn't written a non-fiction book in a while. I wrote The Outpost about Afghanistan. It came out in 2012.

  about The Outpost · at 1:07:52

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Pete Hegseth — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:02:03
  With a bunch of sickopantic partisans who are just there to make Pete Hegsth and Donald Trump look good, which is not what journalism is. And second of all, this move and like…
• Mohammed bin Salman — Person · 2 mentions
• Najib Zazi — Person · 2 mentions
• John Favreau — Person · 1 mention · first at 0:00
  Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro.
• Akmed Al Akmed — Person · 1 mention · first at 4:49
  Shooters was tackled and disarmed thanks to the heroics of a fruit shop owner named Akmed Al Akmed, a Muslim Syrian immigrant who's in critical but stable condition after sustaining a gunshot wound himself. Just awful. Yeah.
• BB Netanyahu — Person · 1 mention · first at 10:38
  Solution is my personal political project or hobby horse. JD Vance just did it right here with immigration. BB Netanyahu did it and said actually the real problem is Australia…
• Mike Lawler — Person · 1 mention · first at 12:10
  Republicans in Congress who've criticized Trump for it. People like Marjorie Taylor Green, Mike Lawler, Don Bacon, and Thomas Massie, who even issued a direct challenge to JD Vance and White House staff to denounce it.
• Don Bacon — Person · 1 mention · first at 12:13
  Criticized Trump for it. People like Marjorie Taylor Green, Mike Lawler, Don Bacon, and Thomas Massie, who even issued a direct challenge to JD Vance and White House staff to denounce it.
• Mark Mitchell — Person · 1 mention · first at 20:01
  What really made the Washington Post piece was the participation of Ras Mucen pollster Mark Mitchell in the piece. So it's really great story here. JD Vance follows him on…
• Macrons — Person · 1 mention · first at 24:43
  Israel was involved in the murder, that French assassins hired by the Macrons were involved and are also now trying to kill her.
• Brigitte Macron — Person · 1 mention · first at 30:28
  Right. Not a lot of people calling for big tetatets when they were going after the macron.
• John Edwards — Person · 1 mention · first at 36:14
  Most of them would not know. And just to use an imperfect example, like I worked for John Edwards in 2004 and then we ran against him in LA.
• Dave Bitkau — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:10:44
  And they call the FBI and the FBI calls this dad that I'm talking to at this party, Dave Bitkau. And Dave Bitkau tells me this incredible story about they fly there, they hear…
• Sarah Fineberg — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:18:49
  Say like I remember having a con a I remember having lunch with my girlfriend at the time Sarah Fineberg who you know and Mike Feldman who you know and I remember like I was…
• Sebastian Gorka — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:21:08
  I know I don't know whether Trump and Sebastian Gorka and all the others know that this was a very controversial thing to do if they had tried to do it in 2011.
• Alec MacGillis — Person · 1 mention
• Doug Burgum — Person · 1 mention
• Favs — Person · 1 mention
• Martin Tim — Person · 1 mention
• Max Tani — Person · 1 mention
• Preet Bharara — Person · 1 mention
• Wally — Person · 1 mention
• Yair Rosenberg — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

• Race Against Terror — Book · 4 mentions · first at 0:38
• The Outpost — Book · 3 mentions · first at 1:07:56
• Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al-Qaeda Killer at the Dawn of the Forever War — Book · 3 mentions
• Original Sin — Book · 1 mention · first at 1:29:10
  Final question for you Jake. Your last book original sin which you wrote with Alex Thompson from Axios made a lot of waves. it was about you know President Biden his age and decline and the ways that people around him.

Companies & orgs

• SimpliSafe — Company · 8 mentions
• Turning Point USA (TPUSA) — Company · 6 mentions
• Iowa National Guard — Company · 1 mention · first at 0:53
  The weekend, both here and around the world. On Saturday, we found out that three Americans, two Iowa National Guard soldiers, and a civilian interpreter were killed in Syria during a counterterrorism mission against ISIS.
• PragerU — Company · 1 mention · first at 26:15
  Of it is Candace Owens. And for those who don't know, she was at TPOS, then went to PragerU for a while, then was at the Daily Wire where they fired her for being anti-Semitic…
• Democratic National Committee (DNC) — Company · 1 mention · first at 33:02
  So, you may have missed it. we sure did, but the Democratic National Committee's annual winter meetings were held in LA on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. guess our invite got lost in the mail.
• Love It or Leave It — Company · 1 mention · first at 52:56
  It's great to be here. Great to see you again. Please send my regards to all the others, Favs and Love it or Leave it and F and all the I'll tell everybody hello and congrats…
• Director of National Intelligence (DNI) — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:25:37
  Used to, as a pretty straight shooter who used to work in the director of national intelligence office, I think she was deputy, she was on my show yesterday and she said that…
• Associated Press (AP) — Company · 1 mention
• ISIS-K (ISIS Khorasan) — Company · 1 mention
• Rasmussen (spelled 'Ras Mucen' in transcript) — Company · 1 mention
• Semafor — Company · 1 mention
• White House official accounts — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• home security system — Product · 2 mentions · first at 30:36
• Helix mattress — Product · 2 mentions · first at 50:02
• Mongolian cashmere sweaters — Product · 2 mentions
• Italian wool coats — Product · 1 mention · first at 51:22
  They make it easy to look sharp, feel good, and find gifts that last. From Mongolian Kashmir sweaters to Italian wool coats, Quint's pieces are crafted from premium materials…
• Chinos — Product · 1 mention · first at 51:36
  Mongolian Kashmir sweaters for 50 bucks, Italian wool coats that look and feel like designers, and denim and chinos that fit just right. Their outwear lineup is no joke. They…
• Down jackets — Product · 1 mention · first at 51:40
  Like designers, and denim and chinos that fit just right. Their outwear lineup is no joke. They got down jackets, wool top coats, and leather styles that are built to last.…
• Leather styles — Product · 1 mention · first at 51:41
  That fit just right. Their outwear lineup is no joke. They got down jackets, wool top coats, and leather styles that are built to last. Each piece is made from premium…
• Wool top coats — Product · 1 mention · first at 51:41
  That fit just right. Their outwear lineup is no joke. They got down jackets, wool top coats, and leather styles that are built to last. Each piece is made from premium…
• Oil tanker — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:25:28
  Guess we're just the emperor of all these countries. So, I don't know that the seizure of the oil tanker belongs in the same bucket because Beth Sanner, who used to, as a…
• Denim — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

• DNC — Concept · 4 mentions
• Mass shooting — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 1:04
  Trump has promised retaliation. Hours later, there was a mass shooting in a Brown University Econ classroom that killed two students and injured nine.
• The Daily — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 26:17
• AI-generated podcast — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 0:23
  The DNC winter meetings here in LA last week. and bad news. If you were counting on the Washington Post's new AI generated podcast to stay informed, you may want to double…
• Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 11:48
• Drones — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 59:11
• Inspector General — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 1:02:25
  Pete Hexath, the inspector general, the inspector general of the Pentagon said that his disclosure of pending attack information literally put pilots at risk. That's.
• Algorithmic radicalization — Concept · 2 mentions
• 2028 speculation — Concept · 1 mention · first at 0:17
  Getting more and more disappointed with Donald Trump. We'll also indulge in some harmless 2028 speculation coming out of the DNC winter meetings here in LA last week. and bad…
• DNC winter meetings — Concept · 1 mention · first at 0:19
  Donald Trump. We'll also indulge in some harmless 2028 speculation coming out of the DNC winter meetings here in LA last week. and bad news. If you were counting on the…
• Counterterrorism mission — Concept · 1 mention · first at 0:59
  Soldiers, and a civilian interpreter were killed in Syria during a counterterrorism mission against ISIS.
• This Is Spinal Tap — Concept · 1 mention · first at 17:38
  And by the way, like people are going to be reminded of how much they love when Harry Metal the American president. This is Spinal Tap Misery. Like he's he's part like he's…
• Misery — Concept · 1 mention · first at 17:40
  Be reminded of how much they love when Harry Metal the American president. This is Spinal Tap Misery. Like he's he's part like he's from the era of the monoculture. He made…
• COP meeting — Concept · 1 mention · first at 39:57
  Seats, but also he was the highest ranking American official to go to the UN COP meeting in Brazil a couple weeks back to talk about climate change.
• Healthcare for undocumented people — Concept · 1 mention · first at 42:23
  And I do think he'll have an easier time talking about that than he will be say like healthcare for undocumented people.
• Ask The Post AI — Concept · 1 mention · first at 45:27
  Own briefing select their topic set their lengths pick their hosts and soon even ask questions using our ask the post AI technology end quote the rollout's been a bit shaky to…
• Helix Sleep Quiz — Concept · 1 mention · first at 50:29
  Needs. How will you know which Helix mattress works best for you and your body? You take the Helix sleep quiz.
• Military commission — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:13:32
  Manhattan. And ultimately Obama was forced to shift the trial from the US court systems to a military commission at Gitmo in 2011 because the writing was just on the political…
• 1998 embassy bombings — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:15:04
  Court. In a criminal court, he was picked up after 9/11. He was tried for his role in the 1998 embassy bombings.
• Enhanced interrogation — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:15:20
  Because the prosecutors had only learned about his name from Galani being tortured by the CIA or enhanced interrogation, whatever people want to call it. I just I'm just using torture colloquially. So, so that eliminated.
• National security apparatus — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:16:01
  Administration and the Justice Department and you know whatever like and in the national security apparatus.
• Drone strikes — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:16:29
  Administration, and how terrifying it was. look, there's a lot of commentary now about drone strikes.
• Christmas Day bomber — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:16:46
  Misses there were during that time. For example, there was the 2009, there was the Christmas Day bomber, Umar Farukq Abdul Matalib, who only because of user error basically…
• Enemy combatants — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:22:58
  That's where I mean the it's not crazy that the Trump I mean I'm sorry that the Bush people came up with you know enemy combatants and everything they did like it's not it's…
• Extrajudicial killing — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:24:01
  Media or any questions anybody has on Capitol Hill about whether you know this extrajudicial killing of drug dealers, drug traffickers or you know which Trump is calling naroterrorists is legal or right or effective.
• Nation building — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:24:42
  A lot of Trump's appeal in both elections u was he ran against the Iraq war, he ran against nation building abroad. He ran against regime change wars abroad and like the…
• Regime change wars — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:24:44
  Elections u was he ran against the Iraq war, he ran against nation building abroad. He ran against regime change wars abroad and like the mistakes from the war on terror. But…
• Presidential debate — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:31:00
  Event happening, which was Joe Biden having such a horrible performance at a presidential debate where his only job was to convince people he was up to the task of being…
• 9/11 hijackers — Concept · 1 mention
• MKUltra — Concept · 1 mention
• Times Square bombing — Concept · 1 mention
• U.S. judicial system — Concept · 1 mention
• When Harry Met Sally — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• Guantanamo Bay (Gitmo) — Place · 7 mentions
• Rao's — Place · 2 mentions
• Virginia (state) — Place · 2 mentions
• The Ellipse — Place · 1 mention · first at 22:47
  Someone suggested they make a big mound on the ellipse to better see the UFC fight that's coming up there.
• French Laundry — Place · 1 mention · first at 40:24
  Make the case against him and they have like old scandals, they have French Laundry and that kind of stuff.
• Pearl Harbor — Place · 1 mention · first at 1:20:07
  Poison their water supply. Like it was so traumatic. I imagine it must have been what like Pearl Harbor was like just oh my god, like we're not safe or Israel after October 7th, right? Like try to put in their shoes.
• Eastern District of New York — Place · 1 mention · first at 1:22:26
  Nothing. And since there wouldn't have been the investigation that the US attorney's office in the Eastern District of New York did and all the soothing that I write about in…
• Suriname — Place · 1 mention
• Tunisia — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

• Quince — Sponsor · 8 mentions
• Helix — Sponsor · 6 mentions
• BetterHelp — Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 31:46
• Simply Safe Home Security — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 30:29
  Today's presenting sponsor is Simply Safe Home Security. We can't calm the news cycle, but we can help you feel more calm and secure when you're at home with the Simply Safe home security.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro. I'm John Levit. I'm Tommy Vtor. On today's show, we got another chapter of MAGA in disarray as Candace Owens spreads uh some truly insane conspiracy theories about Charlie Kirk's murder. And uh separately, the MAGA base is getting more and more disappointed with Donald Trump. We'll also indulge in some harmless 2028 speculation coming out of the DNC winter meetings here in LA last week. and bad news. If you were counting on the Washington Post's new AI generated podcast to stay informed, you may want to double check the quotes and facts you're hearing, if you can believe that. Then CNN's Jake Tapper talks to Tommy about the fate of his network now that its parent company is for sale, the decimation of the Pentagon press corps and his new book, Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al-Qaeda Killer in the Dawn of the Forever War. But let's start with

0:44 how our government is responding to the onslaught of horrifying tragedies over the weekend, both here and around the world. On Saturday, we found out that three Americans, two Iowa National Guard soldiers, and a civilian interpreter were killed in Syria during a counterterrorism mission against ISIS. Trump has promised retaliation. Hours later, there was a mass shooting in a Brown University Econ classroom that killed two students and injured nine. While paying respects to the victims, Trump responded to the shooting by saying, quote, "Things can happen." Uh, in fact, things like that happen so often that it became the 389th mass shooting in America this year.

1:23 Meanwhile, FBI director Cash Patel once again bragged about detaining a suspect who turned out to be the wrong person and has since been released. So, as of this recording, uh, the shooter is still at large and, uh, hasn't stopped Cash from from tweeting. Now he's tweeting about uh, the stop him. Um, any thoughts on the uh on the on the Brown shooting and and Cash Patel just this is like the third or fourth time now, the second or third time he's done this.

1:51 The the idea that we should have the FBI director live tweeting through active investigations.

1:57 No need. No need whatsoever. It doesn't do anything to help the investigation clearly because you're putting it out there that they've caught someone when they haven't caught the right person. Uh, and then he looks like a fool. every few hours he has to kind of adjust whatever he's put out into the world. It's just this intense need for like social validation online from the head of our uh most important national law enforcement agency and it's just a reminder that he's an incompetent who doesn't belong in the job.

2:28 Yeah, he could so easily um avoid these mistakes by just following precedent and shutting up. I mean, I think the first time he tweeted about when he tweeted about Charlie Clark's assassination, it was reportedly from a dinner table at an ultra exclusive restaurant in New York City called Rouse or Rayos.

2:41 Rayos Ryos. So, just don't do that. It's very easy. Mr. Patel, also uh the person who was the suspect briefly, that person's name was out there, all of their information. And as one of the local authorities said, like hard to put that toothpaste back in the tube. Yeah. after you do that. I

2:57 I will say also just reading about the Brown University event, like it's horrifying for all of these kids, but also you keep noticing in stories about mass shootings that there are now students involved who were uh in previous mass shootings who survived previous mass shooting and it's just like we have failed these kids over and over and over again. It is horrifying.

3:16 Yeah. Uh Trump was asked about Patel and the and the shooting and the investigation later when he was at the White House and he said it was a um a school problem. It's not a FBI problem. It's a school problem.

3:27 What? Yeah. The security guards are going to run this one down and not the FBI.

3:31 Even though the original suspect um was a suspect because of a tip that the FBI got. And of course, it's not the FBI's fault that they brought in someone who ended up being the wrong person. It is the fault of the FBI director for announcing that people bring in people, you know, the FBI brings in people of interest all the time and then they just let them go. Like that's not a

3:49 I was baffled by what he's saying there. Is that just his way of subtly sort of indicting Brown for being a liberal institution? No, I think it's just deflecting blame from him and the FB from the FBI and him by extension of the FBI.

4:01 Jesus Christ. I mean, also just it's a different issue, but I mean, this attack on these service members in Syria is awful and these people lost their lives. Um, I'm very nervous about what this like retaliation that Trump keeps previewing will look like. But also, I do hope this starts a conversation like why do we have troops in Syria? What are they still doing here? Right?

4:17 Can we bring them home? Can we end this mission? Like what? Why? He didn't really have a good answer for that when someone asked him in the oval as well.

4:22 That one stumped him. Uh so then on Sunday we woke up to news of an anti-semitic massacre at a Hanukkah celebration in Sydney, Australia that killed at least 15 people, including a rabbi and a Holocaust survivor. Uh the shooters were a father and son. Uh the son was known to authorities as at least tangentally related to some kind of local ISIS cell. Uh, and one of the shooters was tackled and disarmed thanks to the heroics of a fruit shop owner named Akmed Al Akmed, a Muslim Syrian immigrant who's in critical but stable condition after sustaining a gunshot wound himself. Just awful. Yeah.

5:00 I mean, these reports say the victims included a 10-year-old girl and a Holocaust survivor. So, the victims were from 10 to 87. I think it's just like an unimaginable evil. And so, it was Bond It was at Bondi Beach, which the site of this Hanukkah celebration. And I also I think like maybe the most popular tourist destination of all of Australia and filled with just families playing outside. And so yeah, these guys are murderers. They're evil. Um I was reading another article about um this couple who got separated from their three-year-old as the shooting started and they couldn't find their three-year-old kid and then they found their little girl underneath a stranger who had shielded her with her own body and took a bullet in the process. So just like amidst the stories of these two evil monsters, there's this unbelievable heroism. um the hol the Holocaust survivor that died is an 87 year old guy who shielded his wife with

5:46 his body. I mean it's just who was also a Holocaust survivor. Just a hero. But you know th this is for the people of Australia. They have not had to deal with a mass shooting like this since 1996 because the last one that happened there was a massacre that killed 35 people and they passed really strict gun control laws and it has been far less of an issue. So it's horrifying for them. It's also in particular awful for Australia's Jewish community because they've been crying out for help because of this growing number of anti-semitic threats and incidents including like attacks on synagogues, arson attempts and things and they just feel like they were ignored. Um and it's and for Jews around the world, I mean, it's just like another you're trying to celebrate Hanukkah with your family and it's another reminder that there's people who want to kill you for your religion. the uh executive council of Australian

6:28 jewelry um uh had a statistic that 37,000 anti-semitic incidents in Australia have occurred since October 7th. That is five times the number in the decade than were in the decade before.

6:40 Yeah. I was it was on the first night of Hanukkah. It is a night where a lot of Jewish people go and have, you know, they have lockas with their family and with their friends and you're celebrating and everybody was talking about it as just a reminder that it continues to be uh uh dangerous uh to be Jewish, that there is a feeling that anti-semitism is rising. Here in the US, we see these surveys that show anti-semitism and uh conspiratorial thinking and antisocial thinking is rising among the young. It's true, by the way, of young Republicans. It's true of young Democrats. There was one Manhattan Institute survey that found that actually it is more common amongst college educated young people, which tells you something about the ways in which this really is not that this is a some kind of a kind of ideological radicalization that's happening online, that something very sinister is happening when people are exposed to

7:34 these kinds of ideas. And this was just a reminder that that it is a scary time for a lot of Jews who are worried about this every day.

7:44 Yer Rosenberg in the Atlantic wrote a piece about this how it's generational more than it is partisan. and um Alec McGillis and other journalists like posted some of the p some of the portions of the of the piece and JD Vance jumped in to basically say uh JD Vance's argument which for which he offered zero evidence or data whatsoever was that uh actually you should have looked at the demographics of the younger people because uh the the the reason that anti-semitism is growing here is only because of immigration and the failure of immigrants to assimilate.

8:16 I assume he means Muslim immigrants. Again, with no data whatsoever, that the Manhattan Institute poll that you just talked about, Love it, was cited in the piece. Yeah. So, I I don't know if all those college educated young Republicans uh just happened to be uh Muslim immigrants that came over here and uh and joined the Young Republican club.

8:33 Right. Well, I saw that too and it sort of obviously he doesn't say it, but he means I he means some combination of Arabs or Muslims. Maybe he means a few other specific countries, but certainly he he can't possibly mean the actual shift in demographics we've had in this country, which is rising Hispanic immigrants, rising Asian immigrants. Like the numbers are such a big change. It's so stark, right? Like you can't account for it with just a increase in anti-semitism among a small part of the immigrant population. And so he can't really defend it. There's no facts that would defend it. And it also, by the way, I just want to say it would be a surprise, I think, to American Jews to discover that anti-semitism in America is a recent import,

9:10 right? Yes. It's a it's a centuries old problem. And also um JD Vance has still not said a word about Nick Fuentes, a vile anti-semite of growing stature on the far right who was platformed by his friend Tucker Carlson who attacked JD Vance all attacks him all the time by name calls his wife and kids a racial slur to do with Indian people and JD Vance is silent and the piece in the Atlantic doesn't say that it is just a problem on the right either among young people acknowledges that it's a problem on the left as Well, but like that's not enough for JD Vance who just like goes on and loves to post. He just has to jump right to No, no, no. The the problem is purely uh immigration like every other problem. It's another example of someone looking at the complicated world that we live in and deciding that the only that the answers are simple and it's what I already believe because if it is just a foreign

10:03 import of ethnic grievances, I suppose we don't have to deal with the fact that people are being radicalized online and we don't have to deal with the fact that uh getting your information algorithmically uh is leading people down all kinds of rabbit holes that there isn't a problem among young people. That by the way isn't partisan, right? that does affect young people of that are on the left that are on the right there that like you don't have to worry about that because once we cut off the immigrants then all of our problems will go away back to being the kind of pure uh uh American culture in which anti-semitism wasn't a problem. I

10:28 I have bottomless contempt for politicians who take a crisis or an evil event like this and say actually the solution is my personal political project or hobby horse. JD Vance just did it right here with immigration. BB Netanyahu did it and said actually the real problem is Australia recognized a Palestinian state. Like, I'm sorry. I do not believe for a second that that is connected to these individuals, one of whom was linked to ISIS in 2019.

10:52 Yeah. What we know is that anti-semitism is related to the attack. And we can all talk about that, right? Like that is the fact that we know so far. Beyond that, it's all just speculation and and garbage. Um, as if all this wasn't enough, uh, the weekend ended with the tragic news that the beloved director and political activist Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle had been found stabbed to death in their home by their own son. Just awful. Uh, after condolences poured in from political leaders like Barack Obama, Gavin Newsome, figures from across the political spectrum, the current president weighed in with a statement Monday morning that reads as follows. Quote, a very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away together with his wife Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through

11:43 his massive, unyielding, and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump derangement syndrome, sometimes referred to as TDS. May Rob and Michelle rest in peace. um a sick, deranged, sociopathic response uh that official White House accounts also reposted. Um but maybe the one real surprise has been the number of Republicans in Congress who've criticized Trump for it. People like Marjorie Taylor Green, uh Mike Lawler, Don Bacon, and Thomas Massie, who even issued a direct challenge to JD Vance and White House staff to denounce it.

12:20 Spoiler, they have not taken him up on that challenge yet. posted it. JD has been tweeting all all day about all kinds of other stuff, but not about this.

12:26 Um, Trump's original post on Truth Social has also been flooded with responses from Magafans saying they don't agree with what Trump said and that he should take the post down. He has not. Not only has he not, um, he was asked about it in the Oval Office on Monday, and here is what he said.

12:42 A number of Republicans have denounced your statement on True Social after the murder of Rob Reiner. Do you stand by that post?

12:49 Well, I wasn't a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person as far as Trump is concerned. Trump derangement syndrome. So I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all in any way, shape, or form. I thought he was very bad for our country.

13:02 I That's a I think that's worse. I thought he was bad for our country. So does that mean you support killing him because it sure sounds like it. I just like it was one of those statements too where when he first posted it, there were so many people on Twitter, journalists, everyone else being like, "Is this real? Are you sure this is a real post? Yeah, it was gobsmacking the the you know like hey do you feel sympathy when terrible things happen to people that are not on your team is like the the marshmallow test for empathy it's like the most basic thing and I actually think most people pass it right that most people pass it

13:37 and then the loudest people online often struggle with it that's what we see and that's what we've seen with all with Charlie Kirk's murder what we saw with the United Healthcare mur murders what you see in in in this case and It is. And then you see a bunch of people try to defend Trump for it. Well, actually, you know, Rob Reiner would have said something horrible if something happened to Trump, but actually Rob Reiner deplored political violence, talked openly about it, was deplored the the murder of Charlie Kirk. The impulse to defend this or to not obviously just say clearly, you don't need to say murder is bad, but you just don't have to. And the fact that there's a whole clique of people online, which includes the president, that can't seem to stop themselves from doing it.

14:14 Yeah, that was it was that was barely a butt. There was there was the murder is bad butt. It wasn't even it was just like

14:19 it was a joke kind of. Well, yeah. He he basically blamed him. He died because other people were mad. First of all, it's like it's it's it's deranged in that in its inaccuracy, right? Like it's just an insane thing to say. It's it's disgusting, but it's also like what are you talking about?

14:35 And are you suggesting someone on your own crazy old man? Like did somebody on your own side do it? Are you saying he was killed for like are you saying killed by someone on your team? Like what are you talking about? It's like the eenth example of his narcissism to suggest that two people who were murdered randomly did it because of you somehow by their child. Like I can't even wrap my head around it. But yeah, I mean it comes after all this outrage from Trump and JD Vance and the White House and the Magdia world about genuinely like offensive insensitive comments made by usually some rando person on TikTok whose comments got surfaced. This is the president of the United States and like of course none of these people have a goddamn word to say about what Trump says. We had Fox News on all day. Did you guys see any segments? That's why we That's why we wanted to keep it on.

15:13 I didn't see a single one. Not a single one. Remember, this administration was getting people suspended from their jobs, fired from the military. Like Reuters had a big report about uh they they found that 600 people were fired, suspended, or otherwise disciplined by their employers for the comments about Charlie Kirk. And then Donald Trump says this.

15:32 It is I was like somewhat uh I don't know if I would say like pleasantly surprised but um the number of Republicans in Congress who just didn't do the usual

15:44 I didn't see it. Yeah. Now the two most important ones or the two the two leaders in Congress basically did that. Mike Johnson ran away

15:51 uh said something like he he felt bad and then said well I I have nothing more to say about Trump but I think it's awful and blah blah blah. the the two the two leaders of the party in Congress took a pass. Um certainly the vice president who's uh you know the putative front runner in 2028 he took a pass, the secretary of state took a pass so far. So we'll we'll see. But uh

16:11 I think it also by the way like does matter too that the like there are the Thomas Massiey's willing to that just say like the obvious truths about it that Marjorie Taylor Green may had the right sentiment about it. Even Nancy Mace had the right sentiment about it. And and the way Margie Taylor Green described it I thought was I thought kind of she just was it was well said and you know Thomas Massie it was what week ago two weeks ago that Trump posted that horrible thing about Thomas Massie getting remarried and I and I do think I forgot about that matters. I do think it really it matters that these are people that are just like no cuz these are right-wing people. Margaret Taylor Green is a right-wing person and like this is gross. This is gross.

16:46 There's like cracks in the mega base and then every time it kind of rains and it fills up it like erodess a little bit more. are like you can feel it happening. There's less fear of him. Courage begets courage and people are just like no that's disgusting man.

16:56 This is also something that could break through beyond sort of just the politics stuff because like Robin nothing except for the fact that Rob Reiner was a very committed activist, not just a donor but like ran ballot initiatives and did like a lot of good work. Aside from that, it was nothing about the the killing or anything else had to do with politics. And you know, young people might not know who Rob Reiner was, but uh most people do. One of the more famous directors. Um and so there's going to be a lot of news on this. And then you hear the president of United States was like, "Oh, good. He he hated me." Like like that.

17:33 Most Americans going to hear that and be like, "What the fuck?" And by the way, like people are going to be reminded of how much they love when Harry Metal the American president. This is Spinal Tap Misery. Like he's he's part like he's from the era of the monoculture. He made things that everybody loved and the non-political era, nonpartisan era, and then to have him be like vilified by the president turned into a political culture. It's just disgusting.

17:55 The uh Washington Post and Politico both had big stories over the weekend about the growing disappointment with Trump among elements of the MAGA base over a host of issues, including, according to the Post, quote, focusing too much on foreign affairs, failing to address the cost of living issues he pledged to fix, aligning himself too closely with billionaires and tech moguls, and resisting the release of the Epstein files. Uh Trump himself in an interview with the Wall Street Journal on Friday said that he wouldn't have done anything differently over the last year and admitted he's not sure if his party will win the midterms. Uh what you guys think of those pieces and how real and consequential do you think the the MAGA disappointment with Trump is?

18:30 I mean I think it's real. I think it's consequential. I mean I divide it into a couple parts. I mean the first is the economic piece of this and it's very funny that they say he's too focused on foreign affairs and they did a big event on like the border and the military and it got a bunch of foreign affairs questions today. But I mean that AP poll last week was brutal for Trump. 36% approval, 31% approval on the economy. Um and his response is to blame Biden or to call it a hoax. But odds are things are going to get worse, not better with the economy this coming year because of inflation because tariffs really start to bite. And I think Trump just sits around in Mara Lago or sits in the White House and he talks to people worth seven, eight, nine figures and then he picks out furniture for his new $300 million ballroom and he's divorced from the reality on the ground in the world and it shows. And then the elected

19:15 officials hear him talk and they're like, "Well, 2025 was the disaster. 2026 is looking worse. Like now it's time to get some space from this guy." And then we'll get into the NAGA media class in a minute, but like they are just they're just chasing clicks. They go where the clicks take them. Uh, please subscribe to Positive America on YouTube also.

19:33 But like they're positioning themselves to be the leader to like to be the leaders of the MAGO movement in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death in the the kind of void um that will be created by Trump being a fully lame duck. They're all kind of eyeing Nick Fuentes in his rise in seeing Fuentes say MAGA's dead. Trump is over. And so like this feels like it's it's moving one direction. what the uh what really made the Washington Post piece was the participation of um Ras Mucen pollster Mark Mitchell in the piece. So uh it's really great story here. JD Vance follows him on Twitter and reached out to him to Mark Mitchell and said, "Hey, like you're an outside pollster. It's not like you work with the White House. Could you maybe come in and talk to us and to Trump about what you're seeing in the numbers?" And so Mark Mitchell then talks to the post about his whole conversation with Trump and he he's told he told the president

20:25 in Butler you said fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight and right now you're fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fighting Marjgery Taylor Green and not actually fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fighting for Americans and then he said he's tell talking to the reporters he said you know to the extent to which we were talking about the economic populism message he wasn't as interested as I would have hoped and then he said that eventually uh Trump pivoted the conversation to golf and talked about how much money he raised for Lindsey

20:47 Graham during a recent golf outing that was that doubled as a fundraiser for Lindsey Graham. Just perfect.

20:53 Yeah, perfect. Just Mad King wandering around in the road. the yeah the the Marjorie Taylor Green piece of it I do think is really important because I think she is speak like she is as good a validator as you could hope for if she's on his side and as bad of one uh when she's not because what she's describing I think is just accurate about what he's been doing and and I do think that like part of this is like democratic legitimacy is hard to measure but it is real and so do he had like I think there's a you can blur your eyes and say there was a mandate to go after the border There was a there was even an anti-woke mandate. He talked about that a lot on the campaign trail.

21:30 Uh there wasn't one to like up the national parks and uh get rid of uh uh a bunch of like you know land management jobs and a bunch of other stuff that that that is

21:42 tear gas one-year-olds. Not something that was a mandate. or to like put on tariffs that are going to raise goods prices for goods and and hurt businesses that do a lot of exporting or any business that relies on any kind of goods that are coming in uh from abroad. And because he doesn't have a mandate to do those things, a like you're seeing this in all the polling, but b it also leads to a bunch of other weather, right? Like he's more there's more likely to be leaks from inside of these agencies. There's more likely to be judges willing to stand in his way.

22:09 Like there's just a bunch of more likely you have members of Congress speak out against it. there's just like the the the fact that he is more and more unpopular and what he was trying to do is so unpopular is grinding the gears down. So even on the places where he's trying to do things that uh uh uh like he might have had some kind of claim to a mandate for like his everything is getting harder because he has pursued this agenda that that nobody really wanted even in his own base.

22:34 Did did you guys see the story over the weekend about Trump's new passion project?

22:37 What's this one? So the golf course Wall Street Journal the Wall Street Journal reported that they're trying to figure out what with what to do with all the dirt from the east wing renovation. Someone suggested they make a big mound on the ellipse to better see the UFC fight that's coming up there.

22:49 Oh, I didn't see that part. But then Doug Bergam said, "No, sir. What if we bring it over to this golf course over some, you know, nearby and we can refurbish the golf course." So Trump's new passion is redeveloping DC golf courses people.

23:02 You you mentioned the AP poll. There was also like an NBC News poll over the weekend. uh overall approval 4258. The two groups that show the largest drop in strong support for the president since April, those who identify as Republicans and in particular those who identify as MAGA Republicans. Um still highest with those voters, but um he was 78% approval with those voters in uh April and now he's at 70%. That's an eight-point drop. It's the biggest drop of any group. They also ask people in all these polls, do you identify yourself as a MAGA Republican or a regular Republican? And it used to be MAGA Republican by you know 10 20 30 points and now it's 5050 among Republicans. MAGA Republican versus regular Republicans.

23:43 Yeah. I'm wonder I would say my my I saw that and I thought well is that an actual difference or is that just a brand distinction? Right. Does because does Trump does MAGA MAGA leaves its residue on the Republican party that because that's also what's happening is you see like the Vances and the gnomes all of them are also jockeying for what a postTrump world will look like and for some of them it is not moving anywhere towards some kind of old school republicanism. It's like no going out there being like I told the president we're going to get every darn immigrant out of this country. Uh so they're all kind of jockeying for the what the future will be. But right now it looks a lot like MAGA just without Trump.

24:16 MTG says I'm not MAGA, I'm America first, right? And that's an interesting and I do think that's going to be the split because uh MAGA is so identified with Trump and America first has overlap but not the same.

24:28 Um there's also plenty of MAGA infighting these days that doesn't involve Trump. Uh, most recently, the feud that Candace Owens started by spreading some truly batshit conspiracies about Charlie Kirk's assassination. Owens has implied that Israel was involved in the murder, that uh, French assassins hired by the Macrons were involved and are also now trying to kill her.

24:46 That is what happened. Um, and that uh, that Kirk was even quote betrayed by the leadership of Turning Point USA, going so far as to criticize Erica Kirk, his widow, for not responding to Candace's crazy conspiracy theories. Uh so right-wing influencers from Ben Shapiro to Nick Fuentes uh have gone hard at Candace over this. Erica Kirk herself has publicly and quite pointedly asked Candace Owens to stop. And on Sunday night uh she announced that she would be meeting privately with Candace on Monday and that quote public discussions, live streams, and tweets are on hold until after this meeting.

25:22 Boo. Uh Tommy, thoughts on how much this insanity matters? I think MK Ultra made an appearance too.

25:29 Really? actually a few times if we're being honest. Um I think it I actually think this does matter. I think it gets at a couple things. First, it's like how how viable and effective is Turning Point USA going to be going forward because this is an organization that Charlie Kirk, whether you like him or you hate him, he built this thing based on his vision. He had a ton of big donors, but like he created an organization that was very impactful. um and his death created a vacuum and it's not clear yet whether Erica Kirk can carry the mantle and keep it as politically powerful in part in part because of these attacks. Um, then there's also just like I think this infighting is just consuming the MAGA media world and they're not talking about whatever Trump wants to talk about like how bad Democrats are, you know, the things he's doing. And the majority of it is Candace Owens. And for those

26:13 who don't know, she was at TPOS, then went to PragerU for a while, then was at the Daily Wire where they fired her for being anti-Semitic, and now she's on her own. Um, and she does huge numbers like her I looked at some of her recent live streams. They were getting like 1.5 million, 2 million people on YouTube. God.

26:30 Yeah, she's regularly like a top top 10 podcast. So, like a ton of people watch the stuff and they believe it. Um, and you're right, like she was focused on Breijit Mccron being a man, then she went to Charlie Kirk Assassination World. Those two conspiracies converged at one point and the French were behind both of them, but there was always an Israeli in there because, you know, you got to work in some Jewish people somehow. But I do think like this has become like this all-consuming thing and it's spiraling out of control. Like now there's like Tucker versus Nick Fuentes and Heritage versus Tucker and Tim Pool's mad and his beanies all a skew cuz he's mad at Candace. Do you guys know why the this the French and Israelis are supposedly or supposedly were part of killing were in on killing Charlie Kirk and might now want to kill Candace. I think the French were trying to kill Candace to silence her about her

27:20 regime conspiracy theory and I think they took out Charlie to get to her was the suggestion.

27:27 Yeah. Not also, but they're in cahoots with the people that work at uh Turning Point USA. I would just say, you know, whatever the kind of cathedral of logic Candace is building, I'm not super interested in entering. strong foundation.

27:40 But I will say it like just you know JD Vance is going on and on about you know how it's actually immigrants that are causing anti-semitism in this country and then you see somebody like Candace Owens getting like kind of a million people watching

27:52 coming from deep inside the house. Yeah. Yeah. And just like this is like the the most extreme voices like there's the most extreme voices gain a bigger audience but also being extreme either by self- selection or by algorithm that exposes you to more extreme things and all of that pulls you further and further online and more and more outside of the real world whether you're a content producer like Candace Owens or the president of the United States or a content receiver and the end result it's a bunch of people that are just sort of completely divorced from everyday life and that may get a lot of interesting eyeballs and get a lot of people that also maybe feel alienated but also for everybody else you see Candace like who the would believe that or you see JD Vance blame it all on sort of like an ethnic import like well that doesn't comport with with reality or Trump says this crazy thing about about about uh uh

28:41 Robiner it's like god what kind of a maniac would say something like that well it's people whose brains are broken by in one way or another the internet

28:48 and and Candace isn't just like for political obsessives you know it's not just like a show about politics. Like she was really into the um Justin Baldoni Blake Lively

28:58 world. So like people who come for that stuff are then getting like the crazy French conspiracy theory, the TPUSA stuff, the right-wing politics. So that's why she's got this really big reach and impact.

29:10 Yeah. Cultural entertainment onramp to politics for Candace Owens. Yeah. And there's like and what's funny too like there like they're all like this there's one path that leads you to Candace Owens but there is this sort of natural cycle with with a bunch of different like if you start watching videos about the pyramids

29:25 the pyramids you will eventually not too it won't take too long get to videos about how the pyramids were built by aliens and actually it's tied to Atlantis. Like there is a a kind of natural honing that happens and it leads you down these paths to eventually you get to some kind of the Jews

29:40 usually them usually us where it ends up. Um, so, uh, interested to see how that meeting goes with, uh, Erica Kirk and Candace. I'm sure we'll get a full readout and that the readout will be, uh, uncontested by both sides. Can you imagine how weird and uncomfortable this is? Like, look, Erica Kirk has been through hell. Her husband was assassinated on live TV. Now, she has to go have a meeting with this person who is not subtly suggesting that she might have been behind it and is let like Candace, by the way, is not the only one who's just really attacking Erica Kirk in some pretty gross ways, too. So, this has got to be um I don't know, just awful.

30:16 It also speaks to just like how like this is a person that has gained a lot of influence in part because until they had the wrong enemies, they were embraced by a lot of figures on the right. Not a lot of people calling for big tetatets when they were going after the macron.

30:28 That's right. Right. That's right. Today's presenting sponsor is Simply Safe Home Security. We can't calm the news cycle, but we can help you feel more calm and secure when you're at home with the Simply Safe home security system. Simply Safe is for people who want real proactive protection because the goal is to stop crimes before they start. Traditional systems wait until an intruder is already inside your home. Simply Safe works with a double layer of defense outside of your home to keep intruders out. If someone's lurking, AI powered cameras alert live agents who can talk directly to intruders to let them know they're on camera and that the police are on their way. Because early action is better than after the fact to deter crime. There are no long-term contracts or hidden fees. You can cancel anytime. named best home security system by US News and World Report for five years running. 60-day money back

31:11 guarantee, so you can try it and see the difference for yourself. As you guys know, John Love had a Simply Safe system up himself. It was super easy to do. It gave him great peace of mind. The monitoring works excellent. Uh there's no long-term contracts. You can turn it on and off from your app. There's great cameras. There's rapid response from the folks over at Simply Safe. It's an excellent product. Give it a shot. This month only, take 50% off any new system. This is one of the best prices you'll ever see for Simplysafe. Don't miss it.

31:37 Hit simplyssafe.com/crooked. Again, that's simplysafe.com/crooked and lock in your discount. There's no safe like Simplysafe. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy can give you the space to create new meaningful traditions, give you some clarity amidst the holiday chaos to let you write your own story. The holidays are a time of classic traditions. Some people have many in their families, some have none, or are just beginning their own. Now is the time to reflect on what they mean to you or to rewrite those traditions and make them your own.

32:05 Incorporating therapy into your new or existing traditions can help ensure you take time for yourself during what can be a very joyful but sometimes hectic and lonely time of the year. BetterHelp has quality therapists who work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industryleading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored rex. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHel is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of five stars for a live session based on over 1.7

32:46 million client reviews. This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off at betterhelp.com/psa. That's betterhelphp.compsa. So, you may have missed it. Uh, we sure did, but the Democratic National Committee's annual winter meetings were held in LA uh on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Uh, guess our invite got lost in the mail.

33:11 I don't know. Party leader, the party party leaders were here. Oh, you sat down with JB Pritzkar stopped by. Yeah, he let him on his way. He let us know. He made He made a he made a drop by. Um anyway, the party leaders were here and as Politico reported, quote, "For the first time in a long time, the mood was warm."

33:27 Optimism coursed through the hotel ballrooms. Taking a hit of optimism, you say we got good weather.

33:34 Um what actual business is is transacted transacted at these meetings? I don't I've never been clear to me.

33:40 I don't know. I think it's just go you go, you mingle, you talk rules and bylaw votes. I don't know.

33:44 Couple land acknowledgements. Yeah. Everybody gets I was thinking about I don't think I've ever been to a DNC meeting. I don't know if that's a me problem. It's made my job.

33:51 I went I went once once with Obama in like 07. Like that first one DC hotel. Yeah. When he was first thinking about running. That was

33:59 what else is going on. Um when he was first thinking about breaking his promise,

34:06 uh anyway, the whole thing led to a predictable series of speculative stories. One was an Axio's piece about how Kla Harris, who spoke on Friday night, is quote, "working to keep another White House campaign viable based on the fact that she's trying out some new applause lines and extended her book tour." Uh, another, also from Axio, featured anonymous advisers to potential 2028 contenders, acknowledging that Gavin Newsome is the current front runner and discussing their plans to highlight his past scandals and paint him as too liberal. Wally feels like 2028 is kicking into high gear. What do you guys make of the Kamla story?

34:37 Uh, I would say it was pretty thin. uh the the the evidence that she's it would like the the headline said gearing up for a run, but the actual article said gearing up for keeping her options open to run. And then you got to think that if your goal was running for president, you would stop the the book tour,

34:52 not extend it based on I think the reaction to the book tour so far, which I don't think has been very good for her. So,

34:58 yeah, the the evidence um in quotes was uh she added stops to her book tour. She went to a DNC meeting down the street from her house. Ken Martin made a quip that Doug could be the first gentleman uh someday, not just the second gentleman, and that there are some new lines in her sum speech. And so that's pretty thin. I'm imagining the narrative if Kla Harris, the 2024 Democratic Party nominee, refused to go to a DNC meeting in her hometown. Probably would have been pretty bad for her. Now, I'm not like trying to hate on Alex Thompson here because I do think there there is a world where this kind of story gets written because a bunch of adviserss are like off the record. She's keeping her, you know, options open here and he strings together a story kind of based on available evidence. That's politically kind of a smart thing to do, right? If you're if people think you're running for president, you get invited

35:42 to speak. People write down what you say in the newspaper. They talk about you on the Sunday shows. Now, if I if I were an adviser to Kla Harris, I would be like, "Ignore that crap, but let's figure out like let's lay the foundation for what you want to run on and do as president because I still think that is lacking." Like, she was obviously uh put in a bad position by Joe Biden, both, you know, with the record, but also with 170 days, 107 days to run a campaign. But I think if you were to ask most voters like what would Kamla do? What's her big thing?

36:11 Most of them would not know. And just to use an imperfect example, like I worked for John Edwards in 2004 and then we ran against him in LA.

36:17 We know a lot about his big thing. We know about his big thing. He decided to make 2008 about ending poverty, universal healthcare, attacking corporate power, and attacking like shitty trade deals. Like he was like a populist before Bernie made it cool and he was anti- Washington. I think she needs to like fix this problem pretty quickly so that people know like, oh, this is her identity. This is her lane if she runs.

36:39 Yeah. the um the new rhetoric that that she trotted out um that that they they were treating as like kind of a big deal. It was um the quotes they used were like both parties have failed to hold the public's trust. Harris said people are done with the status quo and they're ready to break things to force change. We cannot afford to be nostalgic for a flawed system that failed so many added and that she added arguing that President Trump is a quote symptom of a bigger problem.

37:04 Imagine she read a speech from October 2024. Was she supposed to not add new lines? Well, it's also just like but this is the this is why what you just said was really important to me is that like the Edward stuff was like very spec like poverty issue, you know, saying that both parties have failed to hold the public's trust is like a all you need to do to say that is just reflect the current polling and punditry that's out there. It's like the next question is okay then what are the Democrats what have the Democrats done um to not hold the public trust like specifically, you know?

37:33 Right. Right. that that's like so like I I in that story at one of the one of the proof points that she might run for president she's going on Jimmy Kimmel like this week and if Jimmy Kimmel were to say where where's the Democratic party gone wrong like I maybe she has a good answer but to be honest what I expect right now is just a word salad that's what I would expect because I just have not seen her lay out any kind of a specific

37:54 uh point of view. Yeah, I was hoping for a little more. I listened to I haven't listened to too many of her book events but I listened to the one with Tim uh in Nashville and it was just you know it's she's funny got some good applause but it was just like what you just want like okay what's your how do you see the country where do you see the country going what do you care about right now you know I do think um back to the piece like one piece of evidence in the piece that I do think is legitimate is expanding the book tour to go to South Carolina and to and she's been doing a lot of southern states and she she talked about this on some other podcast too that she um they were going to go to like regular cities that you go to on a bookstore, but she really wanted to go uh to a whole bunch of different places in the south. And I do think that is that that is her and her campaign being like, okay, she's wants to be

38:36 strong with the black vote. She's going to South Carolina thinking that it's still going to be in the early state lineup. Um so, you know, I guess that that warrants the piece that to me, the South Carolina thing, but but not not so much not as much the rhetoric.

38:48 That's smart. Go to or or the meeting that's in her backyard. when she shows up at like a party dinner in New Hampshire, that's when I'll be like, "Okay."

38:55 Yeah, that's that's a big one. Um, you guys think uh Newsome's earned the front runner spot in the in the eye of the the contenders who think they're going to take him down with his liberal record?

39:05 Around front runner, I would say he's done the most to uh like make himself the anti-Trump figure in the Democratic party. I don't think anybody's done as much as him to kind of take that spot. and he's tried things that I think have not made him necessarily the person everybody thinks should be the candidate, but he's definitely assuaged a lot of I think he's I think there are a lot of people that were that are or were skeptical of Gavin Newsome that are less skeptical today than they were a year ago.

39:29 Yeah, I think he's done more to improve his image with the base of the Democratic party than anyone else by a landslide. And some of it is like the tone and the tweets and kind of the silly stuff that people see on the internet, but mostly it's his willingness to use the power he currently has as governor of California to advance the Democratic party's interest and fight Trump. like the biggest piece of that is Prop 50 and redistricting. We would be right now if not for uh getting those five seats, but also he was the highest ranking American official to go to the UN uh COP meeting in Brazil a couple weeks back to talk about climate change.

40:00 I think that was like a very savvy move. It was one that was planned about a year ago, I think, but it it was great timing. Now, like it hasn't all been smooth sailing. like the early days of the podcast roll out with Charlie Kirk, with Steve Bannon, like that didn't go over well, but he's course corrected and adjusted.

40:16 Yeah, they listed in the piece the different areas that that opponents are thinking about in terms of how to like make the case against him and you know, they have like old scandals, they have French Laundry and that kind of stuff. I'm like, you know, I don't expect that to be as effective for someone like him who has, first of all, it's the way the media information environment is now, but like everyone knows about those scandals. He owns them. he talks about them. I think him doing the podcast and him just being out there so much, much like it did with Trump and many politicians since Trump actually helps him get through that kind of stuff. I think the biggest weakness for me at least is sort of the he's a liberal from California. And I don't think this is necessarily specific to just Gavin Newsome himself. I think any governor of California for the last eight years is going to have to answer for a lot of

41:07 very very liberal legislation. Even if it's not their responsibility as governor, but it's just been through the legislature and it's been passed and there's this city ordinance and that and he's going to have to own the housing stuff and affordability and all that kind of stuff. And he's been good on a lot of it, but like your record are still your record. And you know, hearing him defend it on Ezra's pod, he just sat down with with Ezra Klein last week. You he has a he has answers for everything. But it, you know, over the course of a campaign, I think that's going to be the test for him whether he can Yeah. You look at the like the contrast between like so you would say Newsome, you have Pritsker, you have Josh Shapiro, right?

41:42 These are all sitting governors, potential presidential candidates, and they have just very different profiles. Josh Shapiro has just a much smaller one right now. And that's per maybe that's a political strategy. Maybe that's a consequence of governing a purple state in which you are working with a legislature that's much more divided. You have I think Pritsker who comes from a liberal state but has kind of defined a smaller set of issues with which he's kind of picked some big fights with Trump. But I I agree like I think it's funny because there's the there's the attacks from the left that oh he's been bad on on on homeless people or that he's thrown trans people under the bus.

42:20 And I do think he'll have an easier time talking about that than he will be say like healthcare for undocumented people.

42:25 I I also sort of I I can't tell yet if it's going to be like a you're voting with your heart or your head election, right? Like 2008 was like people were fired up after 06. We felt good. We thought we could win. They voted with their hearts for Barack Obama even with considerable kind of concerns about electability. 2020 was a vote with your head like Joe Biden is the most electable. Let's get this guy in there. We got to be Trump. I don't know where the the headsp space we're all going to be in in 2027 and 8. Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I guess you could argue that Obama won part of the reason he won the primary is he successfully prosecuted the electability argument against Hillary, right? And and Iowa.

43:00 So, like maybe it's maybe it's both, but um yeah, it's a good question. How was uh how was JB Pritsker? I I'm 10 minutes into that one. I haven't I haven't listened to the whole thing. It was really interesting talking to Pritsker because I do just he has a like a and I said this to his face like if you would have told me that this was like a like a one of the richest human beings in America and the richest person in public office like that would be surprising because it's not how he carries himself. he has a much more uh I don't know like just not what what comes to mind and and I it was an interesting conversation about how he does come from all this privilege but that he was shaped by a lot of loss when he was a kid and the tension there but there's a he has something that I think a lot of Democrats don't have which is a similar to Obama which is a feeling like they could just walk away.

43:44 Yeah. Right. Like he doesn't have that like I don't know I've been planning this since I was 7 years old kind of a thing.

43:50 Uh like if he loses he'll just go to Vegas and Yeah. push it just push it all forward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

43:56 I I popped in the the conference room when he was waiting there. Just shot the for a minute about like the Bears and Chicago weather and he just he seems like a completely normal guy. He also looks like to your point about um being a very very rich guy but not reading that way. Like even his suits look like a guy who has lost 20 pounds and not gone to a tailor, right? Which is not a very rich guy move. Like normally you just get that stuff brought in, trim it up a bit.

44:20 Yeah, it was a good conversation. I think people should check it out. I mean, one thing he said that I thought was interesting just about the future of the Democratic party was because we didn't have a primary in 2024, we really didn't get the like vision shaping that would have happened if we were switching between candidates and a midterm election usually just isn't that, right? Like you might have a set of proposals you're all rallying behind, but for the most part it's a um it's a anti-inccumbent message. And so all of this sort of like what do we stand for?

44:51 we don't know what we stand for. Like that is a real feeling people have, but in part it's just because we never had that big debate in which one person's vision becomes the thing we coales around.

45:00 Yeah, that's that's that's right. Um all right, last thing before we get to Tommy's conversation with Jake Tapper. We all know the media business is in rough shape right now, especially the news business. Uh well, Jeff Bezos's Washington Post has decided to make a big bet on AI generated podcasts. Uh-oh. uh which the post has dubbed quote your personal podcast in which users of the papers mobile app can quote shape their own briefing select their topic set their lengths pick their hosts and soon even ask questions using our ask the post AI technology end quote uh the rollout's been a bit shaky to put it mildly uh with semaphors Max Tanny reporting that the papers journalists are frustrated with the feature's errorriddled episodes and fictional quotes and that the post went live with it even after internal tests revealed that the AI generated scripts fail to pass editorial standards 2thirds of the

45:52 time. Got to work out those kinks, huh? Yeah, it's a lot of errors. Yeah, this to me is a good example of uh a lot of times what we describe as the threat of AI is actually the threat of the people in charge of the AI. Because if you had a if you had a journalist whose hit rate was uh 30%. You would say, "Oh, you got to go do some more practice. you we got to you got to get some more reps before we're going to put this on the website. Uh but for whatever reason, because AI is this sort of magical future box, somehow you're allowed to just sort of roll it out and hope for the best and put the word beta over the top and treat people to something that has like incredible inaccuracy rate. And like AI can be a great tool, it can be a harmful tool. It can be a parasite. But this is people choosing to put AI out there into the world before it is ready, before it makes sense, before it is like worthy of

46:40 the institution. Open AAI says, "Join the club we're all doing." Yeah. No, like I I don't like what this idea um means for me personally or for us at this table or crooked media. I love the idea behind the product. If I could be a subscriber to the New York Times or the Washington Post, tell it what I like and then every morning have a bespoke, I guess, AI generated podcast that kind of summarizes for me all the stories I would be most interested in. That is a really cool idea. Is that a podcast? I don't know. It's more like AI generated voice reading me an article which I think they need

47:10 and that works and that and I but like and I love that by the way that's actually a useful additional feature right because it's not something you would do right they don't have somebody read but like it's

47:18 well it's such lower lift tech from a technological standpoint right because you can't that up because it's just a voice reading the text

47:24 yeah it's a it's a fuzzy line some of the errors they referenced were like misprononunciations which boy if that's a problem don't listen to my shows but um you know it's a fuzzy line between like what's a podcast what is AI what is going to kind of eat into all of our brain share, right? I mean, we were talking about this with Warner Brothers Discovery, like the way that, you know, some of these companies now, like if you're Netflix, you view Tik Tok as your primary competitor because it's just about aggregate, you know, leisure time people have. Um, and I worry about this for other podcast creators, but not right now.

47:54 But see, I have a like I I agree with you actually, right? Like if you said that to like, oh, you know, I would love like for my 20-minute drive in the morning, oh, there's like a 20-minute product. It walks me through the biggest stories of the day. it it like all helps me like prep based on real journalism from real people that are being paid that are working on the paper like that all makes sense to me and then I think well if the daily didn't exist right like if the daily didn't exist the New York Times made this we think oh wow that's a great product but human beings using the capacity for imagination creativity make a a product that takes the dailies the the newspapers pro like work and make something interesting and new and special and I do worry about the shortcut of AI to synthesize and aggregate when often what is most needed is something you couldn't describe because someone creative had to invent

48:42 it. Yeah. I think I think about it as um I would tell myself that this would be great and I'd want to listen to my 20 minutes of vegetables which is like going to get the news of the day and just the news. But in practice, when I got in the car, I'd still want to hear people joking around about the news and and just talking like humans about it, having a conversation. Um, than just hear the the reading of the news.

49:05 Hey, fingers crossed. No, like I was just thinking about it cuz I'm like, we have value, right?

49:11 Like like the random AI voice that's just spouting out knowing it's AI versus like Jane doing what a day um you know on my commute. It's like that's not a competition,

49:20 right? Right. And it's all but like also too like all of these AI this kind of an AI product is predicated on a world in which most things are made by people and this is a synthesis of that human work right like it all like

49:32 you still you still need the journalist at some point. Well that's what I mean it's like the like

49:36 which is good news right for now. But that's why it's about it's about what the people are making and not what the computer is doing. It's like it's not the it's the tool user not the tool a lot of the time.

49:44 Well get back to work Jeff Bezos. Yeah he's a tool. Um, all right. When we come back, Tommy's conversation with Jake Tapper. Pot America is brought to you by Helix. It's getting cold out there. Nobody wants to get out of bed. You just want to lay there all day, your cozy cozy blankets, and your cozy cozy mattress and watch some TV. That's why you need a new Helix mattress. You spend more time on that thing than you do anywhere else. Sleep is even more important during sick season, during cold and flu season, at times like this.

50:12 And that's why Helix mattress is the best. It was the most awarded mattress brand. They got a they got EGOT over there at Helix. It was tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. The Helix offers a variety of mattresses designed to fit your sleep needs. How will you know which Helix mattress works best for you and your body? You take the Helix sleep quiz. Easiest quiz you've ever taken. It matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences, making it easy to find a mattress that fits your sleep needs. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US. Rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk-free customerf first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. They even offer a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. Go to helixleep.com/crooked

50:59 for 20% off sitewide. That's helixleep.com/crooked for 20% off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name to the post-purchase survey so they know we sent you helixleep.com/crooked. POS of America is brought to you by Quint. Cold mornings, holiday plans, this is when I need my wardrobe to just work. That's why I'm all about Quint. They make it easy to look sharp, feel good, and find gifts that last. From Mongolian Kashmir sweaters to Italian wool coats, Quint's pieces are crafted from premium materials and are built to hold up without the luxury markup. Quint makes the essentials every guy needs.

51:32 Mongolian Kashmir sweaters for 50 bucks, Italian wool coats that look and feel like designers, and denim and chinos that fit just right. Their outwear lineup is no joke. They got down jackets, wool top coats, and leather styles that are built to last. Each piece is made from premium materials by trusted factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. By cutting out middlemen and traditional markups, Quint delivers the same quality as luxury brands at a fraction of the price. It's everything you actually want to wear, built to hold up season after season. I got to tell you guys, I was doing some holiday shopping yesterday. Uh, not only did I go to the Quint website myself and pick up like two or three things. I'm not going to say what they are because the people who are getting them might be listening. Uh, but also, you know, when you Google like best gifts for mom or

52:13 whatever. Yeah, they even have a little tab. It says like a holiday gifting option. A whole layout of great options. Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handed with quint. Don't wait. Go to quint.com/crooked for free shipping on your order and 365day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Congrats, Canada. That's quinc.com/crooked. Free shipping and 365day returns. quint.com/crooked. Joining me today is CNN's lead DC anchor and chief Washington correspondent and the author of the new book, which I'm holding up right here for our YouTube viewers, Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al-Qaeda Killer at the Dawn of the Forever War. Jake Tapper, welcome back to the pod, buddy. Good to see you.

52:52 It's great to be here. Great to see you again. Please send my regards to all the others, Favs and Love it or Leave it and F and all the

53:00 I'll tell everybody hello and congrats on the book by the way. I was texting you yesterday um that it's fascinating. It's an amazing story and it deeply triggered me because it brought me back to all these like incredibly important and contentious counterterrorism debates from the early Obama days that I want to get into in just a minute. Uh, but first I have to ask you about the corporate media elephant in the room. Uh, Paramount and Netflix are waging a battle to buy Warner Brothers Discovery. CNN's fate will be determined by that process in some form or fashion.

53:30 President Trump weighed in on all of this the other day. Here's a clip. I just think that the people that have run CNN into the ground, by the way, nobody watches. Very few people watch. I don't think they should be entrusted with running CNN any longer. So, I think any deal should it should be guaranteed and certain that CNN is part of it or sold separately. But I don't think the people that are running that company right now and running CNN, which is a very dishonest uh group of people, I don't think that should be allowed to continue. I think CNN should be sold along with everything else.

54:06 Typically kind and generous uh media criticism from our president. So Jake, I know you can't comment on merger talks, but I'm just curious what it's like for you and your team and everybody in the newsroom who are used to covering the story to now be a part of the story.

54:19 Well, let me just bring it back to uh a moment that I'm sure you remember in October 2009 when the Obama White House was declaring Fox News not a legitimate news organization and I in a gaggle asked White House communications director or was he press secretary press secretary Robert Gibbs why is it appropriate for any White House to say any credentialed media organization is not legitimate and I got and still get to this day a lot of crap from the left about that as if I'm defending Fox, which I'm not. I'm defending the principle of should a White House be not criticizing a story or criticizing a particular anchor or whatever, but just labeling an entire media organization not legitimate. And what that was and I think it was just uh Anita Dunn and Robert Gibbs. I think Anita was the communications director at the time is so small compared to what President Trump is currently doing in terms of not

55:24 only labeling one channel fake news or illegitimate or whatever, but like everyone except for the most flattering obsequious channels and coverage and now weighing in on a potential merger. um that his justice department and the FCC and others are supposed to objectively assess. Um I don't think the FCC has a role if it's um what Netflix wants to do because the FCC doesn't cover Netflix and Netflix is buying studios and a streamer, not any TV. But be that as it may, it's just all unprecedented. And as with everything uh in this era where President Trump says and does things that would cause huge outcry from Republicans and conservative media if it were done by Obama or Biden or whatever President whoever Newsome AOC whatever um the these precedents are being set and it's like speak now you know as they say at weddings speak now or forever hold your peace. like this is the time for conservatives to say that's not

56:43 appropriate. It's not appropriate for a president to put his thumb on the scale. And and just in terms of our coverage, what is dishonest? What specifically is dishonest?

56:53 That Dale guy, like honestly, as we know, President Trump thinks that coverage that isn't flattering is fake. He's he has said before in the past that polls that show him trailing are fake. Um so I I you know I it's it's never fun to be the story. That's not what we like to do. We like to cover stories, not be part of the story. But I I mean I just think it's all and one other thing I'll just say, Tommy, is that the paramount deal for people who don't understand Netflix is just trying to buy the studios and the streamer. They're not trying to buy the cable news channels. We would be spun off into our own thing called Discovery Global. Um, but Paramount wants to buy everything.

57:42 That's why President Trump wants that because he wants new management at CNN. Um Paramount um that that is doing the deal that President Trump presumably is in favor of, their money is not just their money. It is also coming from the president's son-in-law,

58:01 Jared Kushner. Jared Kushner and perhaps most alarmingly the um Saudis public investment fund

58:10 and the Amiradis and the Qataris. Yep. Yeah. And I you know you could talk about foreign ownership and that's one subject but beyond that I mean it is interesting because conservatives have for years been decrying Al Jazzer as like terrorist news because they're out ofQatar and etc etc. Qatari money to buy CNN. Nobody has a word of objection on the right. But beyond that, we know what MBS, Muhammad bin Salman, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, thinks about independent journalism or critical journalism because he has had a journalist killed according to the CIA.

58:46 Killed. Yeah. Jamal Kosigible. So all of this is a longer answer than you wanted. All of this is part of this situation. And again to my friends on the right, speak now or forever hold your peace. Because like everything I've ever seen covering politics is a president gets a new toy of an expanded presidential power and the next president takes it and goes wild. Bush did drones, Obama went crazy with drones. Now Trump is using the same justification to go after drug traffickers. It's all just it keeps going and going and going and going and going.

59:24 And I look, I agree with you. By the way, Jared Kushner, I think he's got like $5 billion under management at his his firm, Affinity Partners. I think 99% of it is from foreign entities, all the same ones you just mentioned. So, he's just a pass through for them. He he uh he gets to invest their money in an investment these sovereign wealth funds would already be in and then takes a fee. So, why is he there? Clearly, there's someone thinks he's one way to grease this deal and get the political support they need from the administration. And I I should note that Paramount says that they would be non-governing partners. That presumes that the Saudis and the Amiradis and the Qataris are giving 24 billion dollars out of the goodness of their hearts.

1:00:05 They don't want to impact whether or not I can say in a broadcast that is seen internationally that MBS ordered the murder of Jamal Kosigible according to the CIA. They they have no opinion on that. They they want to give $24 billion and they don't want to prevent me from saying that, which is true. According to the CIA, NBS had Jamal Hosigi, an American uh resident killed and butchered. Like, okay, you can believe that if you want. Um,

1:00:34 you know, I I find it very unlikely that any sovereign wealth fund is going to spend $12 million, whatever it is, without some sort of string attached. Um, but you're right. Look, it's unprecedented times with this merger. Uh, unprecedented times even before this for the media generally. I want to ask you about some of that. I mean, back in October, the Pentagon press corps essentially just staged a walk out of the building um because Pete Hgsth and his team, the Secretary of Defense, demanded that they signed some document outlining this whole series of new rules, including one that basically prohibited the act of reporting. Could you just help listeners understand the impact of a policy like that on a journalist like yourself um kind of day-to-day? So, I did a a vertical video that that lays out in detail um what exactly the these this list was, this list of demands, but basically it was

1:01:22 uh opening the door to the Pentagon being able to label a journalist who reports anything they don't like a security risk. Uh, and it would criminalize not just the handing over by anybody in the Pentagon of classified information, but basically anything any information not approved, not not previously approved

1:01:46 by the Pentagon. Um, and I mean, one of the things that's uh there are two things that are very interesting about this. one, they have replaced all those actual journalists with with a bunch of sickopantic partisans who are just there to make Pete Hegsth and Donald Trump look good, which is not what journalism is. And second of all, this move and like if you listen to what HGs says and his spokesperson Sean Parnell, they're saying, "Oh, we we need to do this to prevent classified information from being reported, which makes us weaker etc. etc.

1:02:25 Pete Hexath, the inspector general, the inspector general of the Pentagon said that his disclosure of pending attack information literally put pilots at risk. That's what the inspector general report that he said, you know, completely exonerated him, which it did not. That's what it did. So, like, if he can point to something that we in the media irresponsibly shared that put pilots at risk, I'd love to see it. But I can point to something that he did that put pilots at risk. So it's all just again I hope that the people on the right who are accepting this are excited for you know the next Democratic press secretary of the Pentagon to do the same thing and like only allow in the most sickopantic coverage. And yes, of course that means that you know whatever Mike Lindell media, My Pillow Media leaves and like we get in some like left-wing version of the same thing.

1:03:24 Sign me up, baby. I'll be there. I'm just kidding. Are they even good pillows is my question.

1:03:29 I don't know if they're good pillows. No, what what is kind of I find funny about this in the near term, Jake, is that all these this like sickopantic group of influencers went to the Pentagon. They all took photos from the same cubicle and said it was like some Washington the Dan Lamont at the Washington Post. cubicle. But they were doing this they were doing this like pining right at the moment when the actual Pentagon press corps was breaking blockbuster stories about these boat strikes off the coast of Venezuela. So these these guys look like complete idiots now. In the long term, we don't really know exactly how bad these restrictions will be for Pentagon reporters. Does it mean they won't be allowed in the building? Will they not not be allowed to travel with the Secretary of Defense? Will they not be allowed in military installations around the world? will they not be allowed to cover uh international conferences, you

1:04:13 know, the Munich Security Forum or like whatever. So, I think over time it really will sort of erode and chip away at their ability to do the job. I think it's a big deal.

1:04:22 So, I I will just say just to toot my own horn and CNN's own horn, last week a reporter named Zack Cohen and I, CNN reporter Zack Cohen and I, we broke the story of what was in the Inspector General report about HEGs a day before it was released to the

1:04:36 public for Signalgate. Yeah. for signalgate and you know and that was just a clean kill. We just you know whatever and there's not one of those people in the Pentagon press corps or whatever they are the Pentagon

1:04:46 fluffers. Yeah. Uh there's not one of them uh even came close to you know and that whether you like Hegathth or not that is news. Uh let's say you love Pete Hegth you know uh and you wanted to put the nicest spin on it. You could, you know, like Hexath did like, but the point is they didn't even do that because they can't even do that because they're not breaking any stories,

1:05:10 right? They're not journalists. I mean, there also have been some kind of less draconian but impactful impactful changes to media access at the White House. The the short version is, you know, the media the White House changed the process for deciding who attends these smaller events. They're called pulled press events. And now more often than not, you have like the Oval Office includes a bunch of more sickopantic kind of overly partisan questioners, dudes like uh Marjorie Taylor Green's boyfriend. What do you think the impact of those changes has been over the last several months?

1:05:41 I have less of an issue of expanding the press pool to include new media, quote unquote. I mean, you know, people want to ask I this doesn't outrage me. Um, you know, I I for you know, I have seen good journalism in unlikely places. Uh, I have seen good journalism in partisan places. I mean, the Free Beacon and the Daily Caller and I mean, there are a bunch of right-wing sites that I've read actual breaking news stories in. Um, so it that doesn't concern me. I know a lot of them were already part of the press pool and had been added during the Obama years. Uh but but beyond that, like that just that doesn't it's it's the exclusion of people that bothers me more than the inclusion.

1:06:26 Yeah. Like stripping out stripping out the wires, preventing the AP from entering the Oval Office for months and months, stuff like that.

1:06:32 Look, Caroline Levit and whatever people think about her, she does. And President Trump, whatever people think about him, they take questions from the legacy media. They do. Um and so if they want to expand the circle, I that doesn't really bother me. It's the exclusion that bothers me. Look, when you see Secretary Hegsth or Attorney General Bondi, they only do interviews, generally speaking. There are a couple exceptions here and there, but let's just stick stick with Hegath. Secretary Hseth, I've only seen him taking questions from Fox, period. He doesn't like do press conferences, generally speaking, and when he does an interview, it's only with Fox. To me, that doesn't demonstrate strength.

1:07:14 To me, that doesn't demonstrate confidence. If I only agreed to do interviews with, you know, pro-Jake people on a book tour. Um, then that would be that would I think be indicative of of me being scared.

1:07:31 Yeah. I mean, it's literally his former employer, too. It looks ridiculous. Um, all right, Jake. So, the book is called I got it right here. Race Against Terror. you trace uh the story of the prosecution of this one al-Qaeda terrorist and what it tells us about the broader war on terror. Um I want to dig into this, but can you just start like how'd you find this story? Why did you how'd you get onto this beat?

1:07:52 So um I hadn't written a non-fiction book in a while. I wrote The Outpost about Afghanistan. It came out in 2012. I'm sure you remember. Um, I I keep alluding to this, but I was the White House correspondent for ABC News in Obama's first term, and Tommy was the National Security Council spokesman. So, like I just for people who don't know, uh, so like I would deal with Tommy and uh, Favs and everybody else and and so I wrote The Outpost in 2012, as you remember and um, I hadn't written it. That book was so meaningful to me and it was such a powerful experience. I there was just nothing that interested me as much. U and the and that book uh was I was inspired by the fact that my son Jack who's now 16, he had been born October 2nd, 2009. And the outpost that I wrote about had the deadly attack um with 400 insurgents, you know, attacking 50 American soldiers the next day, October 3rd, 2009. And there was something

1:08:50 profound in the in the moment of holding my son and watching TV and hearing about eight eight American sons taken from this earth that set me on this path to try to find out what happened. Flat um fast forward to Jack's 13th birthday in uh 2022. We're out doing paintball.

1:09:07 Nice. Uh in the You'll You know when you're a teenager? No, I I had in previous years participated, but then one time I I shot one of his kid, one of his friends, and he and the kid got really upset. So, I stopped I stopped I stopped participating. Good advice for me.

1:09:25 Yeah. Just don't you let let uh let let your little boy uh just play. Do not get involved. Um

1:09:31 so, I'm having this paintball party. It's October 2022. And because it's so far away, I had like refreshments and pizza for the grown-ups as well as the kids. So the grown-ups could just come, drop their kid off, hang out for a couple hours, then leave instead of having to drive all the way back and forth, back and forth. And one of the dads comes up to me and he starts talking to me and he says, "Hey, I know so and so from the outpost." And I said, "Oh, great." And I said, "Like, you know, that but that book was really tough to write because the Pentagon keeps such shitty records and they're so reluctant to share anything." And he said, "Tell me about it." And then he starts telling me this incredible story.

1:10:05 He's an assistant US attorney in Brooklyn. He gets a phone call. It's 2011. It's during the Arab Spring and on one of these refugee boats uh full of Tunisians and Libyans. Is this guy who walks up to an Italian who is in charge of the boat and asks for water. The guy notices he has a bullet scar and says, "How'd you get that?" He said, "I got it fighting Americans in Afghanistan. I'm with al-Qaeda." And they detain him and then they call the Americans and say, "Have you ever heard of this guy? He claims he's killed Americans in Afghanistan.

1:10:38 And they and they call the FBI and the FBI calls this dad that I'm talking to at this party, Dave Bitkau. And Dave Bitkau tells me this incredible story about they fly there, they hear his confession in Italy. And then because it's the Obama era and GMO is not taking in any new people and the Italians wouldn't have turned him over anyway. At that point, Europe was just so fed up with how the Americans were doing the war on terror, they wouldn't turn over anybody if they were going to GMO or doing a military or going to be subject to a military tribunal.

1:11:14 So, the only option was take him and and and prosecute him in the US in a criminal court, which is what Obama wanted to do. He wanted to try terrorists in criminal courts. And this was a big uh sticking point. And anyway, they had to prove this case. That's that's the thing. And so the the story that Bit Cower told me was all about the soothing, all about like how do we prove this? How do we prove that this guy who claims he killed Americans in Afghanistan in like in the early days of the war on terror, 2002, 2003, how do we prove that he did this? And he just told me this unbelievable story about the clues and the evidence and then and then that's how this book came about. I just thought it was just fascinating story. It ended up also being about the war on terror from Bush to Obama to Trump. Um, and what are the best tools? Do is it good to is it, you know, criminal courts the best place or

1:12:09 whatever. and also allowed me to revisit this era of, you know, that I had covered, but you when you're in the middle of it, you don't see it as clearly as, you know, 10 years later, which is why you got so mad when you were reading the book about like the the response from the public, not just Republicans, the public to you want you want to bring terrorists to the country to prosecute them. The response was as if they were like superhuman and were going to bust out of prison and kill everybody with lasers coming out of their fingers. And uh I I had completely forgotten all that.

1:12:44 We lost our minds. Yeah, this is such an important topic. I think first of all let's talk about this this question of whether the courts the article 3 courts the US judicial system can be used as a tool to prosecute prosecute terrorists because for a long time it was and then Republicans just demagogue the out of it and now it's kind of like off the table because just again just to wind back the tape you kind of alluded to this initially Obama comes in and makes this big decision to try Khaled Shik Muhammad and four other 911 hijackers in a court in New York and there's a huge political ical blowback. There's the kind of lot there's legitimate security risks.

1:13:20 There's legitimate fear, but there's a lot of just like kind of insanity like you were saying there, Jake. Like these guys are like you're literally going to bust out of a prison and kill people in Manhattan. And ultimately Obama was forced to shift the trial from the US court systems to a military commission at Gitmo in 2011 uh because the writing was just on the political wall. And so you and I are talking today December 11th, 2025. KSM hasn't even gone to trial yet. These cases are still struck in they're in pre-trial proceedings still. There's no end of those pre-trial proceedings in sight. And yet, Jake, there's no like discussion about this or political fallout over a decision that delayed justice for these individuals and for everyone impacted by 911. And it's just kind of like not discussed.

1:14:05 Yeah. No, I agree. One of the reasons that this happened and this book I mean again one of the things that was interesting about writing this book is just like you really get a sense of just the unrelenting nature of terrorism just like because it's like oh and then this guy happened and then then Zazi was going to blow up the subways and then you know and it's just like man to be in charge of protecting Americans whether Bush or Obama or Trump like what a weight on you to like have to like constant like all All they have to they only have to succeed once, right? So, um, one of the cases that I had completely forgotten had to do with a guy named Galani. This is in the book.

1:14:47 Galani was the first and I believe to this day only terrorist from Gitmo tried in a criminal court. He was the only one taken from Gitmo tried to a criminal court. In a criminal court, he was picked up after 9/11. He was tried for his role in the 1998 embassy bombings. And what happened during that trial was that the judge excluded the key witness because the prosecutors had only learned about his name from Galani being tortured by the CIA or enhanced interrogation, whatever people want to call it. Um, I just I'm just using torture colloquially. So, so that eliminated uh a witness and so that jury in Manhattan uh under then US attorney Pit Barara under Obama acquitted Galani of 284 out of 285 charges. They convicted him on one and so he did go to prison. But the idea that he almost walked scared the out of everybody in the Obama administration and the Justice Department and you know whatever like

1:16:01 and in the national security apparatus. They thought, "Oh my god, uh, this has real consequences." And that was one of the most instrumental actions or or happenings in terms of why the GMO is still open and those guys still haven't gone to trial.

1:16:20 Yeah. And and just bigger picture, I mean, the book reminded me of those those early years of the Obama administration, um, and how terrifying it was. Like, look, there's a lot of commentary now about drone strikes. there's criticism of them, especially the volume of drone strikes. And a lot of that I frankly agree with. Um, but I also think that people do forget, like you said, how many very serious terrorist terrorist incidents or near misses there were during that time. For example, there was the 2009, there was the Christmas Day bomber, Umar Farukq Abdul Matalib, who only because of user error basically uh failed to bring down a plane over Detroit. There were the attempted subway bombings that you mentioned. There was Najib Lazi and his buddies were going to blow up the subway. There was the Time Square bombing. They just checked out. Yeah, they just I think we were following them, right? That that the FBI was

1:17:04 following them but then somebody screwed up on the George Washington Bridge and let him in

1:17:09 and then he disappeared in Manhattan and like if he he he could have done what he was going to do and blow up these subways, him and his two accompllices. At the end of the day, they just got spooked and went back to Denver.

1:17:19 Yep. It was the near miss disaster. There was a Times Square guy Fisel Shazad uh which was similar like see something say something, right? like that some like you know someone being very vendor was like hey this looks weird call the cops. Um and so I bring that up Jake because like again when I look back at the totality of the war on terror

1:17:37 it is an a catastrophic failure abject failure. Right. The Taliban are running Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda is not defeated. Not even close. It's in more places that just change its name and metastasize. Right. But there also hasn't been another 911.

1:17:51 Yeah. I don't know you can say it's a total thing. I I this is the nuance I want to get. It's like there hasn't been another 911. Right. there aren't as many near misses and you have to at least partly credit counterterrorism efforts including drones and other military efforts for that. So I I like what what what do you where did you land on you know kind of the war on terror's efficacy after writing this?

1:18:12 Well, the good news is as a journalist I don't actually have to land anywhere. I could just like report what what's true. But I I will say this. First of all, I it's funny that you you talk about like wanting to remind people of how terrifying it was because I was thinking about this interview last night uh in bed and I was thinking about um I should confess how terrified I was after 9/11 because unless you because a lot of your listeners are either too young Well, yeah, a lot of your listeners are too young to remember 911 or or even have been alive during 911. And let me just say like I remember having a con a a I remember having lunch with my girlfriend at the time Sarah Fineberg who you know and Mike Feldman uh who you know and I remember like I was just a complete nihilist like a month or two after 9/11 I was just like what's the point? We're all going to die anyway. Like I the it was a traumatic event for the American

1:19:06 people. My dad worked at a company called Marsh Mlennon. Uh they were on like the 100th floor of the second tower. I think they lost 358 employees. Um thank god my father wasn't there. He wasn't one that I don't think he even worked in that building.

1:19:22 But it like you know I was still one of those kids walking around campus like trying to figure out what the was going on, not able to reach anybody. It was absolutely

1:19:30 Were you a canyon at that time? Yeah, I was a canyon. I was sitting in the middle of Ohio. Like boy, I've never been happier to be in the middle of nowhere in like rural Ohio, right? But but yeah,

1:19:39 I was here I was here in DC and we were being attacked. Yeah. I mean it was crazy. So like I I just the only reason I say this is because

1:19:47 people need to it's such an important part of this story how scared everybody was. And when I say everybody I mean everybody. I mean like people in the middle of like Kansas were convinced that al-Qaeda was going to come and poison their water supply. Like it was so traumatic. I mean, I imagine it must have been what like Pearl Harbor was like just like, oh my god, like we're not safe

1:20:13 or Israel after October 7th, right? Like try to put in their shoes. Yeah. Exactly. So that's an important part of it. So So to to I don't want to belittle how scared people were by the idea of bringing terrorists to the United States. It's just that we're we have it's just different now. like Trump to his credit although I don't even know if he knows the debate about this um but like they are going they are trying to try the second foreign terrorist in a criminal court for killing US service members abroad. Jafar is this Pakistani who's part of ISIS Corusan who was part of the Abbey gate bombing in 2021.

1:20:52 Right. Yeah. And he and Trump announced during the address the joint session of Congress that Jafar is coming to the United States. He's here. He's in Virginia. He's a few miles away from me and he's going to be tried in a criminal court. Um I know I don't know whether Trump and Sebastian Gorka and all the others know that this was a very controversial thing to do if they had tried to do it in 2011.

1:21:16 Oh god. Lindsey Graham would have lit himself on fire in front of the White House. Yes.

1:21:19 Exactly. I mean like people not just Lindsey Graham, Chuck Schumer, Michael Bloomberg. Like people were scared. So that is, you know, that's an important part of the story, I think.

1:21:30 Yeah, I totally. So where did I land? I landed that um well, I don't actually have to have a position is the truth. Like is it better to do the military tribunals? Is it better to do uh criminal court? I mean, I guess, you know, if if the case can be tried in criminal court, those have those cases have proved effective. More than 300 terrorists have been uh convicted and put in prison. And hypo, you know, hypothetically, if spin ghoul, this particular terrorist that I write about, if he had been picked up in 2007 instead of 2011, and he had been sent to Gitmo, what do I think would have happened? I mean, it's it's, you know, it's entirely speculative, but I think it's entirely possible that he would have been freed because after a while in the effort to clear GMO, um, somebody would have said, "Well, we don't have any evidence. He just confessed to this that we don't we have nothing. And since there wouldn't have

1:22:24 been the investigation that the US attorney's office uh in the Eastern District of New York did and all the soothing that I write about in the book, maybe they would have let him free and then maybe he would have gone and killed as many Americans as possible, which is his life's goal. So, I don't know. But there's also the problem that uh war is not law enforcement and the and the mel and the merging or the morphing or the blending or whatever. That's where I mean the it's not crazy that the Trump I mean I'm sorry that the Bush people came up with you know enemy combatants and everything they did like it's not it's not out of nowhere you know this this is all of a sudden like it's it's not they're waging war on us uh in a way that is not they don't abide by the laws of warfare. So, how are we supposed to address it? Is it a criminal? Do we come up with new case law? I mean, I understand why it all

1:23:27 happened. I just I just think at the end of the day, like it was effective to lock up Spin Ghoul and try him in a criminal court.

1:23:34 Yeah. Look, I I I have empathy for the fear. I have empathy for how hard the choices are. I just like I find the politics of it so frustrating because like there's just

1:23:43 decades and decades of like established case law and processes for trying and and putting in jail terrorists

1:23:50 and demagoguery is the thing also. It's like when you anything that we do in the media or any questions anybody has on Capitol Hill about whether you know this extrajudicial killing of drug dealers, drug traffickers or you know which Trump is calling naroterrorists is legal or right or effective.

1:24:12 Immediately the argument like oh you're on the side of the terrorists like it's juvenile. Charles Cook um uh who writes for the National Review wrote an entire column about this like it was very clever and very well done where but yes I'm on the side of the drug dealers. Yeah, you know it was just along those lines. I mean come on can we have can we be adults here for a second?

1:24:34 It's absurd and and so like you know to these bigger points I mean look I think a lot of Trump's appeal in both elections u was he ran against the Iraq war, he ran against nation building abroad. He ran against regime change wars abroad and like the mistakes from the war on terror. But now, as you said, the administration is murdering people in boats off the coast of Venezuela.

1:24:53 Well, I didn't say they were murdering. I said they're murdering people. There's this slowmoving regime change campaign to push out Venezuelan President Nicholas Maduro that included, we're talking on again Wednesday, December 11th, on Tuesday, the day before, uh, US special forces like captured a a tanker off the coast of Venezuela. And like I just keep watching this news. I'm like, what is happening here? Like, who is driving this? What do the Republicans you talk to say about this sudden like thirst for, I don't know, this new Monroe doctrine in Latin America where I guess we're just the emperor of all these countries. So, I don't know that the seizure of the oil tanker belongs in the same bucket because Beth Sanner, who used to, as you know, um a pretty straight shooter who used to work in the director of national intelligence office, I think she was deputy, um she was on my show yesterday and she said

1:25:42 that she really just sees that seizure in the same light that she sees other seizures of other oil tankers in countries that are sanctioned by the United States, whether it's the Iranians or others. And apparently this operation they had a warrant uh that that the that you know there was actually

1:26:02 they papered it right and and they and they look they did some things right like I texted some friends who worked on Venezuela policy and I was like how is this not an act of war and they were like well you know actually it wasn't coming into the port it was leaving so that they're not blockading the country uh no one knows where the vessel is flagged so there's all these like technical

1:26:18 it didn't have the Venezuelan flag which is a law of law of sea you have to have the you have to be flagged And it's a ghost ship. Like I mean, right. I mean, but I mean,

1:26:28 in practice, the US just stole a Venezuelan tanker, right? Like full at least full of Venezuelan oil.

1:26:33 Okay. Not to justify it, but I think that this has been done in previous administrations, including Democratic administrations, not of Venezuela, but of Iranian

1:26:42 uh tankers. And I think that, again, I'm not justifying it, but I do think that there is, as you say, they papered it. There is there is a legal argument. it it wasn't just like out of nowhere. So, but that said, let's So, let me just differentiate that. Let's just remove that for one second. And again, I'm not I'm not defending it. I'm just saying like I think it's different. Um the idea of what the United States is doing when it comes to attacking, killing individuals on these boats. First of all, we should make it clear.

1:27:15 Neither of us are in favor of drug traffickers and neither of us think that like members of drug cartels are good people. But that said, like these people on the boats, this is not El Chapo. These are not like the brain trusts. These are not that this is not the commander. It's not the general. It's not the colonel. It's not the major. These are the privates. These are the people at the bottom of the totem pole that you put in a boat and you send them to like go to Surinom and drop off all this cocaine. fisherman doing another job.

1:27:44 And the cocaine is important also because what's killing Americans is by and large opioids which we make ourselves and fentinyl which is basically the ingredients are coming from China and they're not going to Venezuela. So you know when you ask Republicans about this they're likely to say it's all funible, it's all drug lords. It's all the same thing. But this idea that

1:28:08 the the only reason why it's it's significant beyond the conceptual idea of like well they're all drug lords and all drugs are bad is because the argument the legal argument is for all the strikes forget the second strike you know the double tap or whatever for all the strikes the legal argument is they are killing Americans with drugs therefore they're are uh they're terrorists and therefore we can kill them

1:28:32 right they're terrorists and obviously Yeah. And and and you know, you can have tremendous sympathy and think that we should be doing more about the war on drugs, etc., etc., and also say it's not really the same thing as 9/11, is it?

1:28:45 The whole the whole policy is insane. And and by the way, it's not the cocaine, right?

1:28:49 It's not the cocaine that is killing people in the thousands. It's the fentinol.

1:28:53 I just I think that someone is going to get prosecuted for this. It probably won't be Hegath or people at the top because Trump will pardon them. But he the Hexath in that team is putting uh US service members in the position of committing like daily war crimes and it's awful and it's just hard to watch. Um final question for you Jake. Your last book original sin which you wrote with Alex Thompson from Axios made a lot of waves. Um it was about you know President Biden his age and decline and the ways um that people around him prevented the disclosure of that decline. Um, I've noticed that the Biden people,

1:29:27 some some of your fellow podcasters uh were in the book. Favro was a was a was a character who weighed in seeing some of that

1:29:35 debilitated uh Oh, I was at that event. Yeah, I was at that event, too. It was rough. So, I have noticed um the Biden people didn't love your book. Um Biden's defenders didn't love your book. I've noticed that every time like Donald Trump stumbles or slips up or falls asleep, you often get attacked and kind of tagged in these tweets. Sometimes they tag me because they associate us as friends or us, you know, because the POS America said that the debate went badly for Biden, we're bad now. Um, how do you think the media is handling kind of these growing instances of Trump falling asleep in meetings or maybe seeming like he's losing a step? Like when is it a critical mass that it becomes bookworthy, right? For example.

1:30:14 So, it's a great question. I mean, we cover it all the time on my show. all the time. And um I think that is that is to a large degree because we saw what happened with Biden and while we covered it, we didn't cover it. Maybe we didn't ask as many questions as we should have at the time. And I think it is a legitimate question for any president of any age, but particularly anybody who is like in the range of being an octogenarian, right? Um we cover it all the time. Now, I didn't write a book about uh Joe Biden's missteps. Alex and I wrote a book about an unprecedented event happening, which was Joe Biden having such a horrible performance at a presidential debate where his only job was to convince people he was up to the task of being president for another four years. His performance being so bad that people thought, "Oh my god, should he drop out of the race?" his not being able to do anything to disprove him,

1:31:16 which is like a really important part of this because, you know, we're all sympathetic to the idea that like anybody in public life can have a bad day, a bad performance, uh especially if you're tired. The question wasn't even about the performance of the debate, although it was unprecedentedly horrible. it was that he wasn't able to go out any time in the following weeks and make any Democrats feel or sufficient numbers of Democrats feel better that he could do this job. And frankly, I understand that there are a lot of people out there who think I would take President Biden in a coma over Donald Trump. I I understand I understand that.

1:31:59 First of all, it's not up to individual people who already love Biden. it it was up to a bunch of swing voters in like seven key states and they didn't feel that way. But beyond that, I don't know anybody who thinks that he could be president right now and all the way through 2029 in his current state. If you see him speak, if you see him walking, like I I feel bad for him.

1:32:24 Well, he's fighting cancer, too. Yeah. He's got some real beyond the cancer. And obviously we wish him well and I hope he lives to be a 100, but like like he I don't know anybody who thought he was up to the to the to the I don't know anybody who thinks today that he is able to be president until 2029 which was the argument. So we were covering and then and then he basically he was chased out of the race by Democrats, not by me, but by Democrats who thought, "Oh my god." And they saw the polling that suggested that not only was Joe Biden going to lose hugely, but you know, they were going to lose states that Democrats hadn't lost in a long time like Minnesota and New Mexico and Colorado and Virginia and New Hampshire. So that's what we covered. It wasn't like, oh, look at all these examples of Joe Biden being old. What we covered was like, should he have run for reelection and why did they hide what

1:33:22 they hid? Um, and and that's what it and it was just about the story of Biden being chased out of the race because of that. In terms of what we cover about Trump, I I mean I literally cover it all the time. Like literally yesterday, uh, I covered that crazy truth social rant when he was mad at the New York Times for covering his aging and he called it sedition or treasonous

1:33:47 and he attacked the appearance of the woman the journalist. That was a few weeks before. Yeah. But I mean like lost track of crazy truth social script.

1:33:54 Yeah. No, it's tough to keep them straight. But but I mean we covered I covered it on social media and I also covered it on my show, right? Um, and like I do I cover it. I I agree tweets. I assume you see the tweets too and it's sort of like

1:34:08 I don't I don't is the truth because I have quality filters up because I've just for years it's just to be completely candid like um and a lot of it was started during the Trump years uh the first Trump years when if you were Jewish

1:34:28 uh you know the Nazis would come at you. fun. And so those filters were up and then after October 7th, a lot of the Hamas sympathizers would come for. So I don't see most of it is the truth, but I'm aware that it's out there and I'll just say like I cover it all the time. Yeah. And if people So I don't really I don't take the criticism very seriously because I do cover it.

1:34:52 Yeah. No, I I see you covering it. Uh Jake, thank you for doing the show. The book is called Race Against Terror. Everyone should pick up a copy, give it a read. It's really an incredible story uh this one individual case, but what it tells us about a couple decades of a war on terror policy um that uh I guess the the story is yet to be written, but great to see you, buddy. Thank you for doing the show.

1:35:11 Thank you so much, Tommy. Say hi to everybody else. I will. That's our show for today. Thanks to Jake for coming on. Dan and I will be back with a new show on Friday. Talk to everybody then.

Questions about this episode

What is "Even MAGA Is FED UP With Trump's DERANGED Bullsh*t" about?

The content discusses the growing discontent among MAGA supporters towards Donald Trump, highlighting bizarre conspiracy theories circulated by Candace Owens and increased dissatisfaction within the base. Additionally, it covers recent tragedies, including the deaths of American servicemen in Syria and a mass shooting at Brown University, as well as critiques of government responses and ongoing…

What is mentioned in this Pod Save America episode?

95 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including SimpliSafe, Guantanamo Bay (Gitmo), Turning Point USA (TPUSA), Race Against Terror, DNC, Mass shooting. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Even MAGA Is FED UP With Trump's DERANGED Bullsh*t"?

The episode runs 1 h 36 min; the transcript is about 19,714 words in 231 timestamped sections.

More from Pod Save America

• All analyzed episodes
• Books mentioned on Pod Save America
• People mentioned on Pod Save America
• Sponsors mentioned on Pod Save America
• Topics mentioned on Pod Save America