Transcript

Trump BLINKS After Minnesota Stares Him Down

From Pod Save America · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 3 min · 23,173 words · 325 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Trump BLINKS After Minnesota Stares Him Down", an episode of Pod Save America published January 30, 2026 (2 h 3 min, about 23,173 words). It mentions 32 people, works and ideas, including Donald Trump, Alex Jeffrey Prey, ICE, Steven Little Miller, John Favreau.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on the potential for the White House to negotiate with Democrats on reforms for ICE in light of threats of a government shutdown and highlights concerns over the FBI's raid on Georgia's election headquarters. It also touches on Donald Trump's continued focus on the 2020 election and introduces a new subscriber-only episode series.

Key takeaways

  • When lawless paramilitary forces roam, protest becomes a public duty, not a crime. Better lawlessness than acceptance.
  • ICE's new playbook: avoiding 'agitators' like a bad haircut. Change your tactics or risk becoming a punchline.
  • Tom Hman’s acknowledgments are like finding a unicorn: rare and suspiciously hard to believe.
  • For ICE, 'deescalation' is the new buzzword. Will they walk the walk, or is it just lip service?
  • In Trump’s world, accountability is optional but denying failure is mandatory. Spin the narrative, not the law.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: Donald Trump, Steven Little Miller, Alex Jeffrey Prey, Dave Feifer
  2. – 30:00: Alex Jeffrey Prey, Minnesota, Simply Safe Home Security, Donald Trump
  3. – 45:00: Donald Trump, Minnesota, Renee Mlin Good, Alex Jeffrey Prey
  4. – 1:00:00: Tulsi Gabbard, Donald Trump, Article, J.D. Vance
  5. – 1:15:00: Donald Trump, Article, One Skin, Minnesota
  6. – 1:30:00: Donald Trump, Barack Obama, Minnesota, Renee Mlin Good
  7. – 1:45:00: Donald Trump, Barack Obama, Lena Khan
  8. – 2:00:00: Donald Trump, Steven Little Miller, Minnesota, Pod Save America Only Friends
  9. – 2:03:23: Pod Save America Only Friends

Notable quotes from "Trump BLINKS After Minnesota Stares Him Down"

  • FBI's extremely concerning raid on the elections headquarters in Fulton County, Georgia. and Trump's latest posting spree about the 2020 election. That's right. I was not a I…
    about Donald Trump · at
  • Down the dangerous rhetoric and condemn all unlawful actions against law enforcement in the community. We are not surrendering our mission at all.
    about Tom Holman · at
  • They have all this money. You still got Miller there. You still got JD Vance there. You still got Christy Nome there.
    about Christy Noem · at
  • Should give pause to anyone, no matter his or her political beliefs, who cares about the rule of law. ICE has likely violated more court orders in January of 2026 than some…
    about ICE · at
  • From the administration has apologized or offered any kind of explanation for why they smeared Alex Prey as a domestic terrorist and an assassin who intended to massacre…
    about Alex Jeffrey Prey · at
  • Has had it for years. Simply Safe has been protecting over 5 million Americans for more than 20 years. They've been named best home security system by US News and World Report for 5 years.
    about Simply Safe Home Security · at
  • To claim, visit article.com/chricet and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com/crooked for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Pods of.
    about Article · at
  • Lucky. It's nice and easy to use. You just apply it after you wash your face and you're good to go. One Skin's products are backed by extensive lab and clinical data, including…
    about One Skin · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Donald Trump — Person · Primary referenced political actor (subject of critique) · 27 mentions · first at
    Central figure tied to ICE escalation, alleged cover-ups, and renewed 2020 election conspiracies; repeatedly referenced as driving the administration’s posture.
  • Alex Jeffrey Prey — Person · Victim at center of ICE controversy (referenced) · 7 mentions · first at
    His killing by federal agents in Minneapolis is the episode’s emotional and political focal point; discussed as a catalyst for public backlash and policy negotiations.
  • Steven Little Miller — Person · Referenced administration hardliner (subject of critique) · 10 mentions · first at
    Portrayed as the ideological driver behind aggressive immigration enforcement and quotas; discussed as a continuing force even if PR de-escalation occurs.
    President who believes he's above the law. You end up with people who work for him, JD Vance, Steven Miller, Christy Gnome, Greg Bevino, who believe that the law is what they…
  • John Favreau — Person · Host · 2 mentions · first at
    Introduces the episode, frames topics (ICE, Fulton County raid, Melania documentary), and leads the interview with Joe Scarborough.
    On today's show, we'll talk about how the White House may actually be willing to negotiate with Democrats on reforms to rain and ice as a way to avoid a shutdown. we'll also talk about the.
  • Dave Feifer — Person · Co-host · 2 mentions · first at
    Co-hosts the episode with Favreau; participates in analysis of ICE actions, political incentives, and media narratives.
    Misspeak. The 2020 election, he's still posting about it. we also got the new Melania documentary that Dan has to get to right after we finish recording. So, I'll try not to be…
  • Joe Scarborough — Person · Main guest (interviewee) · 2 mentions · first at
    Discusses Trump 2.0, institutional failures (Congress/courts), GOP incentives, and 2028 politics; provides insider perspective and strategic framing.
    To get to right after we finish recording. So, I'll try not to be too long. and then MS Now's Joe Scarboro stops by to catch up about the news. and finally, we got a special…
  • Tom Holman — Person · Referenced government official / spokesperson · 1 mention · first at
    Quoted at length from a press conference about de-escalation and targeting priorities; presented as a key actor in the administration’s response to the Minneapolis crisis.
  • Christy Noem — Person · Referenced administration official (subject of critique) · 5 mentions
    Named as part of the hardline immigration enforcement bloc; also referenced in connection with Susan Collins contacting her about ICE approach.
  • J.D. Vance — Person · Referenced administration/political figure (subject of critique) · 4 mentions · first at
    Cited as part of the leadership ecosystem enabling lawlessness and propaganda; also discussed as a likely future GOP nominee.
    President who believes he's above the law. You end up with people who work for him, JD Vance, Steven Miller, Christy Gnome, Greg Bevino, who believe that the law is what they…
  • Tulsi Gabbard — Person · Referenced government official (subject of critique) · 2 mentions · first at
    Identified as Director of National Intelligence and reported present at the Fulton County raid; framed as politicization of intelligence apparatus for election conspiracies.
    Left with as many as 700 boxes of ballots from 2020. even more alarming, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard was spotted at the scene. Totally normal. here's what Georgia Senator John Oaf had to say about the raid.
  • Barack Obama — Person · Referenced former president (comparison/target of conspiracy) · 9 mentions · first at
    Used for historical comparison on ICE enforcement (Obama-era priorities/DACA) and as a target of Trump’s renewed election conspiracy claims.
    Morning, where he shared a bunch of absolutely crazy content appearing to accuse Barack Obama of working with the CIA on some kind of election plot, 2020 election. So, I know…
  • Renee Mlin Good — Person · Referenced victim (contextual parallel case) · 5 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as another killing the administration allegedly declined to investigate; used to illustrate DOJ politicization and propaganda dynamics.
    You know move on from this. We're we'll talk about it but they you know blame Renee Good and blame Alex Prey for their own deaths and they're just like full speed ahead. So, that's going to sort of rear its ugly head at some point, too.
  • Melania Trump — Person · Referenced public figure (media product subject) · 3 mentions · first at
    Discussed in connection with a new documentary and promotional appearances; used as an example of perceived political bribery/soft power via media spending.
    Melania the documentary. The first lady made a promotional appearance for the film on Fox's The Five. Of course. Let's listen.
  • Anderson Cooper — Person · Referenced journalist/interviewer · 1 mention · first at
    Cited for a 'truly extraordinary' CNN interview with a key witness (Stella Carlson), used as evidence countering administration narratives.
    Rewrite the history of Alex's killing, I do think it's worth playing a clip from Anderson Cooper's truly extraordinary interview with Stella Carlson. she's the witness who…
  • Megan Kelly — Person · Referenced media commentator (criticized) · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited as amplifying a narrative blaming the victim; used as an example of right-wing media 'doubling down' and dehumanization.
    Terrorizing and stalking them, as in Border Patrol. And then she tweeted, quote, Find another poster boy. Illegal loving leftists. The argument being made here is so morally…
  • Joe Biden — Person · Referenced former president (comparison point) · 3 mentions · first at
    Referenced as a contrast in political accountability and as a benchmark for approval drops (Afghanistan comparison).
    Facebook or Twitter about politics, were thought it was over when Trump lost in 2020, frustrated with Biden, then Trump came back to stop giving a You've seen more from people…
  • George Herbert Walker Bush — Person · Referenced former president (judicial appointment context) · 2 mentions · first at
    Referenced to identify a federal judge as a Bush appointee who strongly rebuked ICE for defying court orders, underscoring cross-partisan rule-of-law concerns.
    About the rule of law. ICE has likely violated more court orders in January of 2026 than some federal agents have violated in their entire existence. ICE is not a law unto itself.
  • Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) — Person · Referenced politician (organizing exemplar) · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited as an example of effective organizing and voter outreach (talking to Trump voters, door-knocking) and as a hypothetical 2028 nominee type.
    Pick your Democratic nominee of choice in your mind, Gavin Newsome, Kla Harris, AOC, whoever else. They're running against JD Vance. FBI raids their home 3 weeks before the…
  • Alex Wagner — Person · Referenced journalist/podcaster · 1 mention · first at
    Her reporting/podcast episode from Minneapolis is recommended as high-quality context on community response and organizing.
    Strangers to them. And they're taking great risks for this. Everyone should also, by the way, Alex Wagner, Runaway Country, her podcast, she was in Minneapolis, her the episode is phenomenal. and she's like talking to this mother who's you.
  • Lena Khan — Person · Referenced policy figure (praised) · 1 mention · first at
    Raised in Scarborough interview as emblematic of anti-monopoly enforcement; used to argue for breaking up monopolies and addressing economic power.
    One of the reasons I'm such a huge Lena Khan fan because there are monopolies that need to be broken into a billion tiny pieces let me ask you that because like you were so you were a conservative Republican congressman.
  • Kirstjen Nielsen — Person · Referenced former DHS Secretary (historical context) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the 'Only Friends' preview as part of an internal blame/infighting anecdote involving Katie Miller and leaks; also relevant to ICE/DHS history.
    For the administration. Let's discuss who was responsible for the leaks in the White House and how you helped carve the floor out from under then Secretary Kirstston Nielsen.
  • Scott Bestin — Person · Referenced government official (clip in subscriber preview) · 1 mention · first at
    Appears in the 'Only Friends' preview as Treasury Secretary promoting 'Trump accounts' with an IRS form call-to-action; used as an example of administration messaging.
    Event to announce this new savings program for kids. here's humble soybean farmer and Treasury Secretary Scott Bestin talking about this new plan. to all the moms and dads out…

Companies & orgs

  • ICE — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at
    Central topic of discussion regarding immigration enforcement and recent controversies.
  • Crooked Productions — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at
    Production company associated with the podcast and mentioned in the context of a potential documentary.
    If you do not, we will. Melania to Electric Boogaloo coming to you from Crooked Productions.

Places & events

  • Minnesota — Place · Setting · 11 mentions · first at
    Primary location where ICE operations and related protests are taking place.
    Witness who was there and saw the incident and had filmed another angle as well. basically ICE agents had descended on a Spanish immersion daycare which led a bunch of people…
  • Pod Save America Only Friends — Event · Business focus · 3 mentions · first at
    New bi-weekly subscribers only episode of Pod Save America.
    Long. and then MS Now's Joe Scarboro stops by to catch up about the news. and finally, we got a special preview for you of our new bi-weekly subscribers only episode of Podsave America called Podsave America Only, Friends. That's right.
  • Fulton County — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    Specific location of the FBI raid on the elections headquarters.
    To negotiate with Democrats on reforms to rain and ice as a way to avoid a shutdown. we'll also talk about the FBI's extremely concerning raid on the elections headquarters in…
  • Washington — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned in passing, likely referring to Washington D.C. as the seat of federal government.
    On today's show, we'll talk about how the White House may actually be willing to negotiate with Democrats on reforms to rain and ice as a way to avoid a shutdown. we'll also talk about the FBI's extremely concerning raid on the.

Sponsors

  • Article — Product · Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at
    Sponsor of the podcast episode promoting furniture.
  • One Skin — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Sponsor of the podcast episode promoting skincare products.
  • Simply Safe Home Security — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    Presenting sponsor of the podcast episode.
  • AG1 — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Sponsor of the podcast episode promoting a daily health drink.
    Visit drinkaga1.com/crooked and get three free AG1 travel packs and three free AGZ travel packs, plus free vitamin D3 plus K2 and an AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription.

Full transcript with timestamps

on the right who are like, "Well, these protesters and these people who come out and yell at ICE, like they're they're impeding federal officers and they're breaking the law." And it's like, well, you have this unaccountable paramilitary uh force that courts are saying are not just breaking the law, but then defying court orders. So, when you have a lawless paramilitary force rampaging through the streets of American cities, what are Americans supposed to do? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro.

I'm Dave Feifer. On today's show, we'll talk about how the White House may actually be willing to negotiate with Democrats on reforms to rain and ice as a way to avoid a shutdown. Uh we'll also talk about the FBI's extremely concerning raid on the elections headquarters in Fulton County, Georgia. Uh and Trump's latest posting spree about the 2020 election. That's right. I was not not a I didn't misspeak. The 2020 election, he's still posting about it. Um, we also got the new Melania documentary uh that Dan has to get to right after we finish recording. So, I'll try not to be too long. Uh, and then MS Now's Joe Scarboro stops by to catch up about the news. Uh, and finally, we got a special preview for you uh of our new bi-weekly subscribers only episode of Podsave America called Podsave America Only, Friends. That's right.

A perfect title. A perfect title. Perfect title. No one can criticize. Uh, but to get it, you got to be a friend of the pod subscriber, which gets you ad free episodes, uh, our growing list of excellent Substack newsletters, subscriberonly shows, like Only Friends and Polar Coaster

and Polar Coaster with Dan Feifer. Um, and it gives you uh the confidence that you're doing your part to support uh independent pro-democracy media that will never capitulate to Donald Trump. But you got to be subscribed. Never. We will. We will never fund a documentary about Melania.

No. Never. At least I can't say never. I mean, who knows? I can say never. I can say never.

Well, please subscribe so we don't have to, you know. That's right. If you do not, we will. Melania to Electric Boogaloo coming to you from Crooked Productions.

Become a friend of the podcri.com/friends. All right. Uh, first, Trump's borders are Tom Hman, who is now the top official in charge of immigration enforcement, held a press conference in Minneapolis Thursday, uh, in an attempt to diffuse the political crisis facing the White House after federal agents killed Alex Prey. Uh, this came after Reuters reported on new internal guidance from a top ICE official that now directs all federal agents to avoid talking to or engaging with quote agitators um in order to avoid inflaming the situation. And the guidance also orders agents to only target immigrants with criminal records. Uh, as of this recording, there haven't been any actual signs that ICE has changed their tactics in Minneapolis. Um, but here is what Homeman had to say on Thursday.

I'm not here because of the federal government has carried this mission out perfectly. This is common sense cooperation that allow us to draw down on the number of people we have here. Yes, I said it. Draw down the number of people here. I said in March if the rhetoric didn't stop, there's going to be bloodshed. I don't want to see anybody die. not officers, not members of the community, and not the targets of our operations. With that, I call upon those officials stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us to tone down the dangerous rhetoric and condemn all unlawful actions against law enforcement in the community. We are not surrendering our mission at all.

We're just doing smarter. Okay, so you heard him say there, I'm not here to say that what the federal government did was perfect. It's the closest thing I guess you're going to get to an acknowledgement that they have terrorized cities. Um, and also that there will be a draw down. So, it certainly seems like they're trying to change the political narrative that much we're clear on. Big question is whether they actually change their tactics. Uh, what do you think?

Look, if you can't trust Tom Hman, a man who definitely did not take a $50,000 bribe in a cava bag, who can you trust?

I don't know anymore. Now, if look, if we're being serious here, that is as much I don't want to say good, but at least as much as you can plausibly expect from a Trump administration official to suggest that things are going to change as you could hope for because they never admit failure. They never apologize and they never back down. And this he's basically he's definitely trying to change the political narrative. He's basically wearing a t-shirt that says deescalation as he talks about this. I mean, we just have to see what's going to happen. Like I think the big test is are they going to draw down some of the agents there and reverse the surge and get to what is a like a more manageable number in this in a city the size of Minneapolis? And do they re are they really going to stop engaging with the editor? Are we going to see an actual change in tactics and attitude from these agents? And I think that's going

to be very hard because they spent the last year being told you are above the law, you're unaccountable, you can do whatever you want and you're at war with these people. And so we'll, you know, we'll we'll have to we'll have to see here. Um I just think it it is notable that they feel an obligation to even suggest deescalation as opposed to doubling down, which is a very unusual move from Trump, particularly in Trump 2.0.

Yeah. And then you know the concern the version of this that goes poorly is um you know Steven Miller sort of bides his time and uh knows that Donald Trump who has has barely been focused on the actual work of governing anyway um you know moves on to the next thing. The media moves on to the next thing. Democrats move on to the next thing. Susie Wilds, whoever else is saying, "We got to fix this shit." Moves on and then uh continues to uh send ICE out there with these operations. ICE is also this giant unaccountable uh federal agency, the largest federal law enforcement agency in the country now. The budget the size of the Israeli military.

They're hiring people who are completely unqualified, ideologically extreme. Those people all got to do something. They have all this money. You still got Miller there. You still got JD Vance there. You still got Christy Nome there. And so, um, what do they do now? It's hard for them to be as bad as they've been under the radar because they go into another city. If, say they draw down in Minneapolis, if they go into another city and they start doing this again, it's going to be all over the news. Um, so I don't I don't know.

There's also just this inherent tension between what Tom Hman says he wants and reportedly has been pushing for throughout the administration, which is why he was originally sidelineed, which is he wants them to focus on people with a criminal record and people with final deportation orders where you know who you're going after, you go get them. And I'm sure he's not doing it any way in the way which we would want it to be done. But that is a more targeted approach than the Steven Miller, Christy Gnome, Cory Luwendowski, Greg Bevino, just marching army across the streets.

Grab everyone you possibly can figure it out later. The problem is you have this tension between Tom Hman's purported approach and Steven Miller's numbers

and you simply cannot meet the quotas that Stephen Miller has put forward. you can't even do it with what they're currently doing, right? But just you you're not going to be able to deport the numbers Stephen Miller is talking about if you focus only on the people who should be deported and that and so what happens when that tension becomes bare to to to Trump?

And I'll also say like LA was one of the first cities where they had sent in ICE for immigration operations. Tom Hman was in charge then. Tom H. woman said what you heard there that like, oh, we're going to prioritize the criminals, blah blah blah, but you know, we might we might pick up some other people if you happen to be around and it just wasn't true what was happening in LA. Like, they just weren't prioritizing people like that. It was certainly not as bad as what Chicago became and uh and certainly Minneapolis. But, you know, whether Tom Hman is lying or not, and again, guy with the cava bag, how can you uh how can you not trust him? But whether he's whether he's lying or whether he thinks he's telling the truth, but the agency and these ICE crazy ICE officials and ICE agents are just doing whatever the they want, you know, that that's I worry about that too.

Well, I mean, look, if we're being honest, that was a problem in the Obama years, too. It's one of the reasons why DACA had to be created was the original idea was that was to because you you obviously set out

because we couldn't get a handle on ICE in the first term, right? You want to set out priorities on who they should focus on. And one of the things is we are dep prioritizing dreamers. They're not the sort of people who should be the focus of your limited resources and who and who you you get supported. That did not work because they kept picking up dreamers all the time. They kept ending up in detention centers. Sometimes they would get out, sometimes they wouldn't. And so you had to actually change change their status to be able to protect them. And so, and that was ICE before the white supremacist recruiting y

uh campaign before we just started surging people in there who are untrained um and handing them guns and dressing them like they're Navy Seals and sending them out to the streets. So

I will also I will also say that the political incentives are going to put pressure on the White House from their base and from the part of the Republican party where the energy is because you know any of the the blowback they're getting right now is from most of the country but certainly not the core of the Republican base. And those people are ready to like you know move on from this. We're we'll talk about it but they you know blame Renee Good and blame Alex Prey for their own deaths and they're just like full speed ahead. So, that's going to sort of rear its ugly head at some point, too.

Um, H Homeman's presser came a day after uh the top federal judge in Minneapolis, a George W. Bush appointee, absolutely kicked the out of ICE uh for repeatedly defying uh nearly 100 court orders just related to their operation in Minnesota. Uh the judge wrote uh in a four-page order, quote, "This list should give pause to anyone, no matter his or her political beliefs, who cares about the rule of law. ICE has likely violated more court orders in January of 2026 than some federal agents have violated in their entire existence. ICE is not a law unto itself."

Seems notable. Yeah. I mean, this is a a classic example of the fish rotting from the head down, which is when you have a president who believes he's above the law. You end up with people who work for him, JD Vance, Steven Miller, Christy Gnome, Greg Bevino, who believe that the law is what they say it is, not what judges say, not what Congress says, not what the what the Constitution says, what they say it is. And then that filters down to a bunch of ICE agents who are wandering the streets with weapons they should not have that are weapons that are disproportionate to the task before them, heavily armed and who believe they're that they are unaccountable to anyone or anything. And when you when you have that sort of attitude pulsing through an organization, you're going to end up with exactly what we've seen in Minneapolis. And by the way, all the on the right who are like, well, these protesters and these people

who come out and yell at ICE, like they're they're impeding federal officers and they're breaking the law. And it's like, well, you have this unaccountable paramilitary uh force that courts are saying are not just breaking the law, but then defying court orders. So, when you have a lawless paramilitary force rampaging through the streets of American cities, what are Americans supposed to do? What are they? They're just supposed to just sit there and take it. And like, they're not fighting them. They're just They're blowing whistles. They're coming out to protests. And yeah, when they when a mob of these guys comes and tackles them to the ground as opposed to walking up to a protester and saying, "Uh, hey, come with me. Uh, you're under arrest. I'm going to read you some rights. Like that's not what's happening. That's when people when people are like impeding law enforcement or or or accused of impeding

law enforcement or thrown to the ground. It's not because uh the officer or the agent uh politely said, "Hey, please uh put your hands up and we're going to arrest you and you're going to come with me." And then they tried to like tackle them and run away. That's not what happens. They just they don't even say anything. They just tackle people.

The overwhelming majority of what's happening out there is classic nonviolent civil disobedience.

Yes. It's exactly entirely totally entirely within the law. It's entirely within the constitution and it is historically the only way to combat this sort of state overreach.

Yes. Um so almost a week later uh no one from the administration has apologized or offered any kind of explanation for why they smeared Alex Prey as a domestic terrorist and an assassin who intended to massacre federal agents. Um, in fact, they are now doubling down after a new video surfaced of Freddy being tackled by agents 11 days before he was killed. Uh, CNN had had a story about this a couple days earlier. Um, but then we actually got some video. Um, and the Minneapolis Star Tribune confirmed that it was Prey in the video um with his family. Uh, and they also spoke to a witness who was there and saw the incident and had filmed another angle as well. Um, basically ICE agents had descended on a Spanish immersion daycare which led a bunch of people in Minneapolis to show up and start yelling at the ice agents and throwing snowballs at them. Then you see in the video, Alex is uh near one of the ICE SUVs and spits

on the car, flips them off, and then kicks the tail light as the car is pulling away. The vehicle then stops. Four agents get out, tackle Freddy, shoot tear gas and pepper balls at the crowd. Uh Prey wrestles away from the agents. They let him go, drive away, and then Prey turns to the crowd and says, "Are we all okay? Are we all safe?" So, um CNN had also reported that a source said Prey suffered a broken rib from that encounter. Um but of course magaw world uh from the president and the vice president who uh were retweeting or reposting uh different uh accusations about this um to all of their media sickopants. Uh they're using this video to support their argument that Prey was a violent agitator who was you know solely responsible for agents riddling his body with bullets 11 days later. Uh just give you one example. Megan Kelly tweeted that the new video was proof that he, Alex Prey, was victimizing and

terrorizing and stalking them, as in Border Patrol. And then she tweeted, quote, "Find another poster boy. Illegal loving leftists." The argument being made here is so morally bankrupt and intellectually vapid, it's almost impossible to talk about. Like the video does not show him terrorizing and targeting ICE officers. But even if he did, even if he broke that tail light, even if he spit on the not like a car, an officer, that is not grounds to shoot someone in the street

11 days to murder them 11 days. Even if it right, there's no evidence they knew who this person was. He was the same person who might have kicked a tail light 11 days earlier. But even if he did that right then and there, even if he walked up to the car those guys were standing in front of and broke their tail light, they don't get to kill him. That's not how it works. That they are not judge, jury, and executioner. And anyone making this argument is just so in the head that it's even hard to like the fact that we're like parsing the video 11 days earlier. And all he did then he said this nice thing is like we're like already playing their game. You don't get to shoot and kill people in the street who do not pose a threat to you.

That is not something that you get to do. That is murder. That is what happened here. You like, it's so ridiculous. It's like watching a bunch of the MAGA accounts and they're like, "This is the video that Democrats don't want you to see." I'm like, "Sure, no. Everyone should go watch it. It's fine. What are you talking about?" Like,

you know what I want? I want uh what they say they want, which is law and order. So, if uh he, you know, uh vandalized a a federal agent's car or whatever the it is, and they didn't like it, you stop the car, you walk out of the car. Sir, uh you just tried to uh you know, impede an investigation or you just tried to kick the car. Do you do you want to explain yourself? No. Come with us, sir. Put you know, and then and then you arrest him if if that makes sense. Right. Just like 11 days later when they grabbed him and threw him on the ground, they could have said, "Sir, you're under arrest."

uh you're under arrest and you're impeding our officer. We're we're taking you away. We're taking you downtown.

Right. Go before a judge and we're going to present evidence as to why you should be charged.

That's it. And when you But before you tackle the person, you tell them who you are and why you are stopping them and why you may arrest them. That's it. I don't know. That seems pretty basic. You don't shoot them 10 times.

It's like the idea that the right is getting together to milkshake duck a murder victim. I mean this is

Of course they are. Of course they are. But it's also like well it's also this view that our outrage and grief over this is solely because Alex Prey is this like perfect hero right now. It turns out seems like an amazing human from literally everything everyone has said video we've all seen all the rest of it. But I don't care if he was a schmuck. I don't care if he was an I don't care if he hated police. I don't care if you I don't care what happened. Like that is why we have laws in this country. It's not about whether the person is good or bad.

That is like that is their They think that they see the world through you're either good or you're bad. And if you're bad, anything can happen to you. We get to decide, by the way, whether you're good or bad. If you're bad, anything can happen to you. And if you're good, if you're good, then fine. But we'll find something bad about you. It's crazy.

It's just I don't care if he committed a felony moments before they talk him to the ground. You don't get to shoot him.

I don't care. Yeah. I don't care. I don't care if he shot someone. I don't care. Like I don't like he you It's a murder suspect. You You arrest them and then you try them. It's like

if he if that person does not pose a threat to the officers, they don't get to kill him. They just No.

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I've taken AG1. You just put the scoop in the water, you uh you mix it up, tastes great, you feel much healthier. Visit drinkaga1.com/crooked and get three free AG1 travel packs and three free AGZ travel packs, plus free vitamin D3 plus K2 and an AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's drink AG1.com/crooked. Um because the government and its propagandists are working overtime to rewrite the history of Alex's killing, I do think it's worth um playing a clip from Anderson Cooper's truly extraordinary interview with Stella Carlson. Um she's the witness who filmed the shooting from the closest angle. Uh I think the internet was calling her pink coat lady for a while because they didn't know her identity and then uh Anderson was in Minneapolis, sat down with her. Um, it's a longer clip, but I I I really think the whole 20-minute interview is is worth your time. I I wish everyone would watch it, but um

let's let's take a look at this excerpt. I mean, I watched him die. Um, I remember him arching his back and his head rolling back and he looked it was so fast moving and but not for me. Like when they left, when they fleed, which now I see that after the shooting, they decided to just scatter and save themselves. And then they come over to try to perform some type of medical aid by ripping his clothes open with scissors

and then maneuvering his body around like a rag doll only to discover that it could be cuz they wanted to count the bullet wounds to see how many they got. Like he's a deer. You knew he was gone then?

I knew he was gone. There was no way with the way his body was moving. And I only knew that because of the way they were manipulating his dead body, just playing with it like like they're in a video game. They were looking at us and laughing. A

after the the shoot. Yes. They wouldn't talk. Look at us. Everyone just kept saying, "Just look at us. You're our representatives. You work for us. Why won't you look at us?" You know, when we walk around with the whistles around our neck, it's not that we have like we we know we can't do much, but what we do know is that we can let our community at large know when we're walking around like I see you. And if you're stuck in your apartment, I want you to see me. I'm another person walking around who is here to protect you as best I can with my whistle and my phone, which really feels not great.

To you, this is murder. Yes, I know it is. It was an assassination in full view in the middle of the streets. I think people are feeling like there's nobody here to help us. There's nobody who can step in to protect us. And I think people are at a loss and shooken like what do we do? What can we do? What is in our constitutional rights that don't seem to matter? The constitution doesn't seem to matter. I mean, I watched that and I was just my first reaction was like, I want my wish is that everyone in America would just watch this 20-minute video. And if you finish watching it and you still think that uh Alex Prey deserved it, that he was responsible for his own death, that the federal agents that are out there on the streets are just trying to do their jobs and that this is the right thing for the country, then like, you know, I can't help you and that's what you think, but like at least watch this. At

least watch it. I had two reactions to this. you sent it to me um after it aired and you you said this was gut-wrenching I think was how you described it to me and I definitely had that reaction like my heart broke for her it breaks for Alex's family and friends and community and everyone in Minnesota and elsewhere who's being terrorized by ICE but the other part of it is for as gut-wrenching and heartbreaking as the interview is also so inspiring that like as we everything feels so dark and has felt dark for a long time now that just people don't give a We are just like becoming this nation where the so the fabric of society is just like torn apart and no one cares about anything. But like what's happening in Minnesota, what people like Stella are doing, that they are going out at great risk to themselves in absolute freezing weather with phones and whistles to protect members of the community that they don't

know. They just know that they live near them, that they're neighbors. And to do what they can to protect them because that's what you do when your community is under assault, no matter who is doing the assaulting, is so inspiring. inspiring and should give us hope in an that we can come out of this as a country on the other side that we can survive this period if we can get through Trump and all of MAGA and all of this that there that this is country deserves so much more than we're currently getting and that there is there that there is like real good here in a lot of our population who will be there on the other side for something much better than what we currently have.

Again, it's it's not your typical activists, people who go out to protests, people who are super politically engaged, though in Minneapolis and all over the country, those those people are certainly out, you know, count myself as one of them. you all of us here. But it is if you you just watch the coverage in Minnesota, you listen to some of these people that some of them have just never never thought they would join a protest, never have done political organizing, never would do any of this, and they just feel that their community is under assault and this is the response that they are providing because they just they care about their neighbors and they care about their neighbors even if they've never met them, even if they're strangers to them. And and they're taking great risks for this. Everyone should also, by the way, Alex Wagner, uh, Runaway Country, her podcast, she was in Minneapolis, her the episode is

phenomenal. Um, and you know, she's like talking to this mother who's like, you know, she's just like she's got, you know, she was like trying to um organize rides for people and and for schools and to like make sure kids are okay and stuff like that. And she's like, she's feeling guilty because she's got two young kids. And she's like, I'm spending all my time like I want to spend time with my kids and they're hurting, but also I'm trying to like help my neighbors and like that's the tension and I don't I I feel upset and I don't want to feel like I feel guilty, but then I'm like why do I feel bad? People are feeling worse. It's just like the the humanity um that we're seeing is like it is it is really really inspiring. And so I felt that I felt inspired. But I was also just like shaking with rage.

Like I can't I can't shake it because when you see that and then you watch like you know and again not even it's weird. I don't know if you feel like this but like I still have all my anger at Donald Trump that I've always had. But when you see him he's just like this who's like yeah you know it's a horrible thing. Horrible thing. And even worse with Renee Good because you know her parents are Trump fans and you're like this guy is just he has no soul. He doesn't care whatever. But like JD Vance and Steven Miller and Christy Gnome and Greg Bevino and these people who are like smearing him as an assassin and the Megan Kelly's and all the other ghouls on like in right-wing media. I'm just like God like I I I don't understand. I don't understand how you can't like just sit this one out, this this one incident, just be like, you know what? This was bad. This was bad. I'm going to have all my same

beliefs. I'm going to have all my same political views, but this is this is pretty bad. Like, no, they just they have to go in on every single thing, even something like this, because I guess they have to win.

Yeah, it's I mean, it is you this is how you show your loyalty to Trump is you take an an incredibly insane, disgusting position. and you double, triple, quadruple down on it to prove to him that you will debase yourself for him. And then there is the in there's the incentive structure of right-wing media which is to have the most out there outrageous edgy take possible, right? It's how you these people end up pussyfooting around with Nick Fentes because that's where that's where the juice is, right? So, it's like it's the what's the obviously right thing to do?

And if you ask any of these people who possibly pretended to once have conservative values, like what would your reaction be to federal government agents shooting an armed man in the street for expressing his first and second amendment rights? Like, I mean, that's an that's an NRA ad for 25 years. It's that it's also like what would your reaction be if you saw someone in your neighborhood who maybe you don't know well but you've seen walk around and yeah maybe they're a Democrat, maybe they didn't vote for Donald Trump and you see a federal agent shoot them down in the street. Like what would you feel then? Right? like the the you know the Charlie Kirk assassination has been brought up a bunch over the last couple weeks from you know idiot right-wingers magma be like oh the dem the Democrats never condemned Charlie Kirk or felt bad it's like no we all I mean you know we took some for this I like I watched

the Charlie Kirk thing and felt genuinely bad and horrified because it's a human being with the family and he was murdered and that's how I feel about people on the left being murdered and the right and in the center and people with no politics and kids and and like I just you either have universal principles and empathy for other human beings or you don't and like you don't draw the line at only having that for people who are on your side. And I thought that's like the most basic thing, the basic set of values, but like I I don't know. I wish people would find it. I wish I because I don't want to just like I I hope they find those values. I I hope they do.

I I know your anger and it's very apparent to me your where your anger is focused. Um and I share it. Um but this is the result of a decade of cultural rot of Donald Trump at the top of our politics.

Yeah. Yeah. And the way and and you know social not to like blame social media but like it's you know it is it is not seeing people as humans. It is exactly what Stella Carlson said. Um, which is like they treated it like a video game, what you talked about those agents treating his body like that. But that is how some of these people whose brains are so broken by the internet and and whatever they do for their jobs, which is just like, oh, it's just another person. Whatever. Ding, ding, ding. Someone died. Whatever. We got to win the fight. We got to make sure that we own the libs. Got to come out stronger than them. And I didn't have to see them. I don't know them. They're not in my life. So people die all the time.

Oh well. And like that's the dehumanization that leads to truly horrific outcomes. Um, so Anderson also asked uh Stella Carlson whether she'd been uh contacted by uh anyone investigating the shooting in the federal government. She said no. Uh possible that's changed by now, but it does seem like there still uh isn't much of an investigation to speak of. Glenn Thrush and uh Alan Fer at the New York Times published a story on Thursday about how Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch have declined to authorize the standard federal investigation into the shooting of Renee Good and haven't made up their minds yet uh on the Alex Prey shooting.

This is apparently causing major tension among federal prosecutors in Minnesota. Glad to hear that. Uh who are instead being asked to investigate protesters and Democratic politicians. Um, according to the story, prosecutors confronted their boss, US Attorney Daniel Rosen, a Trump appointee, and said they were considering quitting in protest, as six others did two weeks ago um around the Renee Good shooting. Like, what do you think Blanch and Bondi are? Like, what? We're just not going to do a We're not going to do a criminal federal investigation. We're just not going to do that now. I think Blanch and Bondi are two people who are not loyal to the Constitution, the country, principle of justice, but they're loyal to one man, and that man is Steven Miller.

And look, this is like like it is, you know, I think we thought at the be at the outset of Trump 2.0 that the Department of Justice would be bad, quite bad, but it would still be the Department of Justice. it would be filled with career prosecutors who would do what career prosecutors have always done and that all of the political vengeance let's get James Comey and Leticia James and everyone else was sort of like a side quest right but this when you get to a situation where the Department of Justice does not investigate the person who shot people and killed them but the people who got shot and killed then it's proof that the whole thing is fundamentally rotten to its core.

and and nothing they can or do can be trusted in any way, shape, or form. Yeah. I think what I hadn't fully grasped is that like I always knew that they would, you know, they would try to go after their enemies because that was the advertisement and they have done that and they've they've stumbled in that so far. They haven't had a lot of wins on that uh thanks to the courts and their own incompetence and the fact that they didn't haven't really had anything uh on them. So, they stumbled on that. but the willingness to um just not go after anyone who commits any crimes on their side and the danger there and of course it started with the pardon of the January 6th uh riers and now we're seeing it here too that is um potentially even more dangerous than the trying to use the law to go after his political enemies.

The federal government is covering up two murders. That is what is happening here. I you know I was thinking this D was like we we spent all summer on the Epstein files and covering up the Epstein files and like they're now covering up two murders that were there were that just happened murders. They're just not going to fally investigate. They're just sweeping that under the rug. So if you were pissed about the not Epstein files not coming out like this to me is murdered Americans government murdered American citizens.

Federal agents murder American citizens and they're like no no criminal investigation here. We're going to the we're going to do an internal investigation led by the agency where the federal agents worked and we're just going to we're going to look at use of force policies and that's it. it. I don't think we have fully interpreted what the response to these killings by the federal government means for just day-to-day life in America where so you this I've said this before, but you have these two killings that happen on video in broad daylight in front of lots of people and they lie through their teeth about it in the most obvious and ham-handed ways. side, which raises the question about what's happening on the things that aren't caught on video, what's happening in the detention centers. But even beyond immigration enforcement, you know, people are like, you know, one of the questions is, are they just going

to take pages out of the Epstein files because they're bad for Donald Trump or bad for someone else in the administration? People are like, "Oh, you guys are crazy." Why would that be crazy? That's not crazy. Like why would we trust a single thing that was said about the bomb the boats that were blown up or what happened in Venezuela or whether your t your tax information is safe, whether your social security information is safe, any single thing happens to the government. Like they if they can lie about things that are caught on video like literally nothing they say can be trusted. And the presumption like I think we have this view where it's like Donald Trump lies all the time but it's sort of like dumb lies about bills he didn't pass or economic statistics that don't exist.

But like the whole thing is corrupt at every level. And that the presumption from everyone interpreting information from the media to the public to to analysts everyone else is that nothing they say can be trusted on anything. Right? that all the data could be completely rigged and in some way, shape, or form. Like just that is all on the table based on what we've seen out of Minnesota in the last couple weeks here. You know, and we haven't even talked about this, but someone at an event attacks Ilhan Omar and um I I'm pleasantly surprised that the FBI and the government that he's been charged this guy cuz I was like, are they going to charge him? Are they not going to charge him? Because basically the message because Donald Trump's response to it was well she probably staged it.

Who cares? That's the president. Capital police, the people responsible there, they have jurisdiction.

Uh I I saw that the FBI actually brought like the like the FBI got involved. But now I'm waiting for the the shoe to drop and like, you know, we'll probably find out in like a week or two. It's like, oh, the FBI agents that charged the guy or the prosecutor that charged the guy, they just got fired by Pam Bondi. Like I'm I'm surprised they were able to do it. Um, but like that that is the other risk is that crazy people who want to hurt other people, even if they're not crazy, people who just want to hurt other people will be like, "Oh, well, if I do it in Donald Trump's name, if I uh, you know, if I do it to one of his enemies, then I'm going to be okay. I'll get

I'll get aart if if I get prosecuted, I'll get a pardon." Right. Right. Um well on the brighter side we should talk about the public reaction to these killings um which have really broken through I think the political bubble to the rest of the country in a way I haven't seen anything break through since Trump took office again. Uh there's been a bunch of polling that shows around 75% of Americans have seen at least some of the video of Freddy's killing. Uh a new yuggov poll has only 18% of people saying the killing was justified. Obviously 18's too high, but honestly in this country at this moment, I'm like, "Okay, I'll take 18." Uh, a new Fox poll finds about 60% of voters saying ICE is being too aggressive. Uh, Drew Harwell at the Post also had a a really great story looking at all these different a-olitical online spaces, um, where this is suddenly a major topic.

Um, and influencers who never comment about politics or who rarely get involved or stay quiet because they don't want to. They're worried about their fans, they're all speaking out. And this is from like gaming forums to, you know, golf influencers. He even mentioned a a subreddit where people play their cats like bongos and didn't know that exist, but the person who's running that subreddit spoke out even even if the people were pissed on the subreddit. Um, and you know, a lot of the previously Trumpup supporting or at least Trump curious podcasters who broke with him over the Epstein files are also speaking out. Um, here's what it sounded like if you tuned in to the most recent episode of the flagrant podcast with Andrew Schultz. Uh, ICE murdered an American citizen in cold blood and then the Trump administration called him a domestic terrorist.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Like plain and simple. Yeah. I see the administration trying to spin it. Um, and it's disgusting. I think it's important to speak up because I've spoken to a lot of people who are seeing it and they think it's abhorentt and they go, I just I don't know if I feel comfortable talking about it. I don't know if they feel like exposure to Trump or whatever like that. I think those are the moments where you got to speak up, especially I'm just talking about regular people that were sympathetic to, you know, some of the uh immigration reform that Trump was talking about and then are re realizing, no, this is not what they wanted at all

and now they're just kind of quiet cuz they're worried about like getting licks or getting uh you know, public lashings or criticism on

get it. Mhm. Get it. Good for Andrew. Yeah. Um so question is does this last? Is the is the political damage lasting? Is the awareness of what's happening? Does that last? Um I've been thinking a lot in the last week about January 6th and how after January 6th, it just felt like as as horrific as it was, you also felt like, okay, finally everyone sees this and this people don't like it. Republicans speaking out saying it's horrible. So like maybe maybe this is going to be a turning point and then look where we are today on January 6th. So I don't know.

What do you what do you think? So I think this is the moment that has broken through not just more than anything in Trump's term. I think the only two things that are comparable from a political perspective are the assassination attempt on Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania and maybe the f the maybe the Biden debate performance and January 6.

Nothing else has broken through like that. And George Floyd and yeah, I was going to say since the Yeah since

since January 6, right since since Trump left office, but obviously George Floyd and a lot of things and for a lot of reasons and how politics and media have changed in Trump 1.0 know would break through all the time, but this is a a rare monocultural moment. And I think we can't expect I think in after I think our mentality in Trump one point in Trump's first term through January 6 was none of these Republicans really like him. They're just pretending to go along because they got he was thrust upon them. this is a temporary affliction and when he's gone they're going to be they're going to not necessarily return to normal not or not be good but Trumpism would it was an aberration. We learned after January 6th that that's not the case right that this is that Trump Trumpism was here to stay and as long as Trump was on the scene he was going to be the leader of Trumpism or magnism. I think the way to think about

this from a political perspective and I'm going to put on my optimist hat here is I think these are there's two fundamental things are happening here. I don't think Republicans are all going to ditch him. I don't think people are going to take off their mega hats and start listening to Pave America or you know MS now or whatever. Um but I think the two things have happened is one there is a fundamental cultural vibe shift here where and this is what you got to which is people decided after 2024 to either stay silent out of fear or out of apathy that nothing mattered.

And a lot of people, not just famous people, not just influence, not celebrities, not athletes, but also just people in your lives who went to protests in 2017, went to the women's march, were constantly posting on Facebook or Twitter about politics, were thought it was over when Trump lost in 2020, frustrated with Biden, then Trump came back to stop giving a You've seen more from people who who checked out of politics over the last couple weeks here than at any point in the last 5 years. And I so and I think it's this creates a permission structure for more people to speak out because one the reasons why Trump has been so successful in destroying our democracy over the last year is because there's been silent acquiescence from so many people in American society business celebrities athletes academia law firms all of that.

And so I think that sh that cultural shift is real and I hope it's lasting because I think once people see the emperor has no clothes and that it's okay to speak out, it's hard to undo that fact. The second thing and this is more my pedantic political hack hat is immigration has been Trump's superpower for a decade. His immigration approval has always been six to seven points above his job approval. Even people who did not like Trump thought he was very strong in immigration. And it gave him this political strength that if he could make politics be about immigration like he did in 2016, like he did in 2024, he could succeed. That has changed. His immigration approval and his job approval are about the same now. He's underwater. And it's even bigger than just immigration. The shift here is he ran as a strong man who would end the chaos, right? End the chaos of the board. He said it all the time. Biden

was too old, wasn't strong enough. We he I'm going to end the chaos. He took the chaos from the border and brought it into the interior of American life. And that is the complete undoing of the core premise of his political power. And so, you know, is are his approval numbers going to stay in at 37 like they are in the Pew poll today? Maybe they'll probably go back up some as the elections get closer, but he is a weaker politician because immigration is no longer the weapon in his political arsenal that it once was. And that's a real important shift. He's just a weaker, less potent political figure than at any point.

Yeah. Because, you know, even if you're uh you know, most voters still their their top issue probably affordability and um price of groceries still high, price of housing still high. And so what are you supposed to say if you uh if you like Trump? It's like, well, um, you know, he didn't do anything about about costs and inflation like I thought he would, but at least there are public executions in the street. What? Like, what what you know, for the obviously there's the hardcores who are there no matter what, but like for the people who took a flyer on Trump uh in 2024 for maybe the first time, like you got to look around and think like what what are you still here for?

Yeah. And many of them aren't. That's why his numbers are what they are. That's why his approval rating was 47 heading into the election and it's 37 in Pew today or 41 in his average. Like the people who who did like Trump and took a bet on him have walked away and this is a big reason.

I also think to your point about the the cultural shift like I think there was an overcorrection, right? Which is

Jesus. Yes. Well, I'm saying just from from prominent people, right, who have because and

you know they will say because I've heard it too. It's like people don't want celebrities speaking out about politics. Like that's what got us into this, you know, like that doesn't work and the right mocks that and stuff like that. It's like I don't think that prominent people speaking out now is going to solve our problems. But the lack of speaking out is it like you said it is acquiescence and it allows Trump to do what he does like and and speaking out I think is not it's not a cure all but it's friction. It creates friction and um and it it also you know prominent people do what they say. They that does send messages to other people and I think it's different than like a Democrat saying like oh I'm going to win if I have Beyonce come out at my rally in an election where there's just two people who are running for president and everyone knows that they're voting for one of the two people and so whoever

Beyonce is for is not necessarily who you're going to be for if you weren't already for them, right? like, but this isn't like that. This isn't about an endorsement of a candidate. This is about something happening in the country. And when you speak out about that, it does let other people feel more comfortable saying something as well.

It's also attention. It's so hard to get people to pay attention to things. And one things that people with large platforms have is the ability to get people's attention, right? Ariana Grande tweeting about a general strike on this or LeBron James posting the Bruce Springsteen song or Bruce Springsteen writing a song. And like we had celebrities out the wazoo in uh 2024. Trump also had celebrities. He just had people with more with a more modern sense of cultural cache who were better actually at attention hijacking because they were native to the platforms where you reach the people who get less who don't follow the news. But it's just like people are certain they're they're in their algorithmic bubble all the time and they're not seeing a lot of the stuff that's happening. And then all of a sudden the people they've invited into their algorithmic bubble like an Alex Earl or an Andrew Schultz or someone like that

because they've create they've curated a non-political algorithmic bubble will start to organically see some information about things happening and they'll say oh

yeah that's notable like I saw the video I thought it was up. It's good to know that other people think it's up as well.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a sign that it just it's it's signaling it's important.

So you can already see the pressure. This is all putting on Republicans. Uh Susan Collins put out a statement on Thursday saying she had spoken to Christy Gnome quote to get ICE to reconsider its approach to immigration enforcement in the state and uh made an announcement that ICE has ended its surge in Maine. Um so that's good. Question now is whether Collins and enough other Republicans uh will actually work with Democrats to reign in ICE as part of the government funding negotiations. Um, when we talked about this on Tuesday's show, the state of play was that Republican leadership wasn't going to uh grant Democrats request to separate out the Department of Homeland Security funding bill uh and actually work on ICE reforms before passing it. Now, apparently the White House has said that they should. Um the latest as of this recording on Thursday afternoon is that the Senate will vote uh later tonight on a provision that

would freeze DHS funding for the short term, a continuing resolution while both parties negotiate ICE reforms which would then allow the rest of the government to stay open. Um what do you think about this? I know right now they're negotiating whether it's, you know, they it's a CR for DHS that's like one week, two weeks, four weeks, five weeks. I think they I think they might have I hear rumors they might have landed on two weeks, but what do you think?

I think there's two things here. One, the fact that Senate Democrats stood firm here and to at least push the issue and to try to get time to negotiate something is a credit to all the people who put pressure on them to do that because this thing was on a glide path to passage. And then it passed the House and seven Democrats voted for it and they felt the rage of of a thousand sons um for doing it. and it put real pressure in dem and I think there were Democrats who were legitimately even absent pressure the pressure mattered but were legitimately more moved to this position like Mark Warner would been on the on our podcast like a few days earlier saying he was probably going to vote for it and he laid out the reasons why that you and I talked about about how this wouldn't actually stop ICE from doing what they're doing and so I think it's it's a sign that you we always have to keep putting pressure on people and

we don't know how this is going to end up we don't know what they're going to get so it's too early to say whether this is a win or anything else I just think It's also really, really notable that Trump and the Republicans do not want this fight right now. Imagine you just said to yourself, you know, two weeks ago, a week ago, Democrats are going to put on the table shutting down the Department of Homeland Security, shutting down the government over ICE 10 months before the election. And and that Republicans, like our assumption would be Republicans would leap at that.

This would be like Trump's dream. and they didn't want the fight which shows how the politics of immigration have changed. shows. Last time there was a shutdown, crazy people like me were the only ones over

John. Never wrong, always early. Yeah. Yeah, that was insane back then, but right now that makes sense. But it's just it's like the fact that they don't want this fight says well the politics have changed and showed like I think the legitimate discomfort within the Republican Senate caucus over what ICE is doing. They probably more optics and politics than morality there, but maybe it's some of the the former two. Apparently Trump is Trump does uh put out a a truth saying he supports the funding deal. Um just this temporary deal because he doesn't want the government to shut down. So

well the house has to come back and pass this thing on Monday and that is uh quite challenging.

And then I think the question is like what a Democrats get in the in the negotiations here and how much they push for because I do think so obviously they're not going to get we're defunding ICE. Um, even if you do defund ICE somehow, even if you even if you permanently shut the government down or even if you permanently shut Department of Homeland Security down because you don't agree to any of the reforms because they're not big enough, again, ICE is has uh, you know, plenty of money um, from the big beautiful bill to go continue their operations, right? So that it's just sometimes I worry that um because Democratic politicians are concerned that there will be such backlash from the base about them not fighting hard enough and asking for enough or getting enough that they like don't tell you what's possible. And like we should know right now that it is like it is not possible to defund uh ICE in

this negotiation. It is possible to try to push for some like basic reforms that should have been in place anyway. Uh like following the law, most of them, but like it is possible to do that. But this is a you know this again we have to win the midterms and we have to win the presidency.

Yeah, I think people should have rightsized expectations here. As infury as I'm sure that is, we have such little power here compared to what we will have if if we have the House and the Senate in 2027, right? So like anything we get is a plus. We should push for as much as as we realistically can. the ideas that are out there about warrants, masks, um federal use of force policies applying to uh ICE and CPP, all I think would be huge improvements. If you get those enshrined in law, that would be a huge deal. You still have to get it through a house full of lunatics who are demanding in exchange for their vote just to keep the government open, they want to add the Save Act, which is an insane conspiracy election conspiracy conspiracy theory bill to it. So, uh, we're not dealing with rational people here.

Speaking of election conspiracies, uh, Trump, Perfect, perfect segue. Yeah, you nailed it. Trump's FBI spent Wednesday searching the elections headquarters in Fulton County, Georgia, where they somehow got a warrant to apparently look for evidence about the 2020 election being stolen. Uh, they left with as many as 700 boxes of ballots from 2020. Uh, even more alarming, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard was spotted at the scene. Totally normal. Uh here's what Georgia Senator John Oaf had to say about the raid.

This should have people across the country absolutely shook. This is a huge deal. So much of the big lie that led to the January 6th sacking of the United States capital originated in his lies about the state of Georgia. This is a shot across the bow at the midterm elections. So, if you remember uh at at Davos last week, um Trump was ranting at one point about the 2020 election being stolen from him, and he said, quote, "People will soon be prosecuted for what they did. That's probably breaking news." Um and then he had a posting spree on Wednesday night and this morning, uh where he shared a bunch of absolutely crazy content appearing to accuse Barack Obama of working with the CIA on some kind of election plot, 2020 election. So, I know he's already he's already accused Barack Obama of treason on the 2016 election, even though he won that election, but now somehow Obama's involved in the 2020

uh which was an impressive feat um considering uh didn't have any power then. Yeah.

So, um how how nuts is this? Can we talk about how Tulsi has been deputized, the director of national intelligence, to go relitigate uh Donald Trump's uh already proven false a billion times by a million lawsuits claims about the 2020 election?

This is I guess this is a tribute to the late great Rob Reiner, but this is the equivalent of Tulsi Gabbard standing outside of Donald Trump's house holding a boom box in the air where she is trying to win back his favor since she has been cut out of absolutely everything. Look, this is bananas. The fact that she's there incognito in a baseball cap, the fact that the director of national intelligence can't uh go to the scene of an operation without being photographed by the news media is maybe a sign that she's not in the right position but

got to work on her spy craft that's for being the nation's top spy. Well, she did have so much so much uh intell so much experience in uh spycraft before this. So, she was she was a perfect fit for the job. I think the way to think about this is how dangerous it is when the entire federal law enforcement apparatus is at the behest of a deranged despite. Right? So let's let's just think let's project for like think about 2019 when Trump is on the phone begging Zalinski to open investigation into Joe Biden into Hunter Biden so he can then accuse Biden of being corrupt like cuz back then he couldn't get his Department of Justice to just open investigation into Hunter Biden. So now we flash backwards. Let's flash forward to it is 2028.

Pick your Democratic nominee of choice in your mind, Gavin Newsome, Kla Harris, AOC, whoever else. They're running against JD Vance. FBI raids their home uh 3 weeks before the election or they get indicted or a story appears and they're, you know, that they are being investigated for, you know, fraud, conspiracy, you know, any sort of crime to try to tip the election.

It's like I don't know. I don't know what like it's also there's all this like now they have the ballots from 2020 and we don't know the chain of custody that those ballots um have followed. We don't know who has those ballots now the federal government. And as we've been saying throughout the show, you can't trust a word the federal government tells you now or the people in it. So, who knows what they're going to do with these ballots? Who knows what they're going to cook up and try to tell us happened in 2020 or what kind of, you know, criminal charges they're going to try to I'm like shocked by the way that a magistrate judge signed off on this search warrant. But

yeah, I was trying to I would like to a little more legal analysis of how they did this. Um

I think there wasn't one stat Yeah, that's right. Wasn't one of the statutes that they that they base this on ballot falsification?

Yes, I think so. Yeah. Again, all of the remember there was a recount in Georgia. There were there were multiple recounts.

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Um, okay. Last thing before we get to my conversation with Joe Scarboro and the Only Friends preview. The biggest movie of the year, possibly the film event of the decade, has finally arrived, courtesy of Mr. Jeff Bezos and alleged sex abuser Brett Ratner. It's Melania. Melania the documentary. The first lady made a promotional appearance for the film on Fox's The Five. Of course. Let's listen.

There's no question that the country needs a lot of unifying at this moment. Yes, it does. But I think he's unifier. Uh he stopped many wars here in United States. It's a lot of opposition and uh that that's the problem. People uh not agreeing with everything that's the what he does and um you know they just need to come on the same page.

Just need to come on the same page. There's a lot of opposition. That's the problem. It's kind of actually a nice summary of this this uh administration's uh general mo. Uh her husband, the president, posted the tickets to the premieres uh are uh quote selling out fast. Uh which you can tell from all the viral screenshots of empty theater seating charts all over the country. Uh there's also at least one report that uh Republican operatives are buying out theaters and trying to give away the tickets.

When are you going? Are you I'm going to wait for streaming. You're going to wait for I think isn't I asked this today just to the story team. I was looking it.

It's not yet. Oh, it's not yet. So, it's not the same night that it's this is a the theatrical run.

I don't know what the window is. This is the theatrical run of Melania. Yes. Which is insane that there is one.

Amazon shelled out $40 million for the rights to the movie. Uh $35 million, another $35 million just for the marketing, which uh the Times says is 10 times what some other high-profile documentaries have received. I don't know if you know about documentary funding, but 40 million and then 35 million on marketing. Not usually not usually the budget for uh for a doc. No, not even not at all. Um marketing included commercials during NFL games, billboards. There's also a promotional popcorn bucket you're going to want to get your hands on. Um it just I can't believe Amazon just really believes in the project, right?

Yeah. It's, you know, when you have when you find a gem like this, how could you not do it, right? It could be, it could be the Oscar film next year. We don't know.

Do you think the 16,000 uh people that Jeff Bezos is laying off at Amazon and all the reporters who are losing their jobs at the Washington Post, you think they're uh they're psyched to see the $75 million that he spent on Melania the dock?

Okay, let's just let's just call it what it is. Like, this is a bribe. It's an insanely stupid bribe because like these are idiots. Like the way this went was this was making the rounds. No one in Hollywood wanted to work with Brett Ratner for all the obvious reasons and the film executives at Amazon passed on it. Reportedly Jeff Bezos was having dinner at Mara Lago with at least Trump and Melania as well. When Trump brought this up, he agreed to buy it. He agreed to pay this exorbitant amount of money, most of which went to Melania in a licensing fee, something like $28 million.

So, he's literally just put money in the Trump family pocket to do this movie. And then, but here's the dumb part, which is, you know, no one's going to go see this movie. And you know that every single person who goes on to Fandango or a movie website can look at the theater and see how empty it is. So, it's very easy to tweet the screenshots out. Like this is why Apple when they see movies like that George Clinty Brad Pitt movie that they thought no one would see, they pull it out of the theater at the last minute.

This doesn't happen to them. But they did it anyway and they spent this money. They doing it while they are laying off people at Amazon while they are gutting uh the post in every way, shape or form turning into just a shell of itself and and sending like closing the international bureaus and all these other things that are supposedly about to happen there. All to bribe Trump. Like it would have been just easier and less embarrassing for everyone if he just

cut him a check. Buy some crypto. Yeah. And yeah, this is just a this is a dumb and humiliating way publicly humiliating way

for everyone, especially for Bezos. Yes. Yeah. Well, good. All right. When we come back, uh my interview with MS Now's Joe Scarboro. Joe Scarboro, welcome.

Hey, it's great to be here. Good to have you here in studio. Yeah, this is fantastic. You escaped the uh you escaped the east coast for a little west coast.

I escaped the east coast. Going to do a couple of shows out here and it's kind of perfect timing. It's cold from Florida up to New York. So, right,

it was good. So, we're uh we're a year into Trump's second term. What is your uh level of alarm uh in relation to what you expected? I mean, you know, one of the reasons we kept saying that he was using fascist rhetoric,

Yeah. was because he was using fascist rhetoric. So, I still don't really understand these comedian turned like left-wing comedians turned like brocasters that are just shocked

from a guy that said he was going to shoot Liz Cheney n wanted to see Liz Cheney shot nine times in the face with a firing squad that said that there were not only going to be mass deportations, but they were going to be bloody.

Like, this is not surprising to anybody. I think my surprise has been more uh just how completely missing uh Congress and the Supreme Court's been now. Congress I sort of expected that because they were scared during the first term. I will say I I I a bit more surprised with the Roberts court.

What do you think that's about? I do, you know, I I I follow it pretty closely and I will say I I I have, you know, I I was really proud of what they did during the the 2000 challenge, you know, 63 and0. It's pretty good for for the federal courts. Um, but I don't really understand because, you know, a lot of Trump appointees, a lot of George W. Bush appointees, the guy in Minnesota who is a rock star.

Yeah. Like there it seems to me a lot of these federal judges are some of the only conservatives from

my time when I was in the Republican party that haven't lost their bearings. Yeah.

So I but I don't understand about the Roberts court. I don't understand why it's taken him so long to make a ruling on tariffs. That's that is really black and white. Yes. the president is using like his emergency powers improperly and illegally. Also, firstear law students could tell you if you send Marines to Los Angeles that is against the law. That is unconstitutional. If you have the guy that's sending him out saying I'm sending them out to do policing, to do domestic, that is so clear-cut. So why it took until the last day of 2025 for the Supreme Court to even issue a temporary ruling on that, I don't understand. And I've got to say one other thing, too. And I do obsess over this because it's so anti-American. It's so unamerican.

when Brett Kavanaaugh writes in September of of 2025 that agents can stop people based on their race,

based on their accent, based on where they were. That's extraordinarily unconstitutional. I think that's Dread Scott level. Like disappointing. I will say it took three months. He finally cleaned that up at the end of the year. But I don't understand how did how did that happen? So I guess I'm not shocked by what Donald Trump has done. I'm shocked by what Congress has done, what the court has not done, what tech bros have done, what what the corporations have done, what media large media companies have done. I mean, that's been the shocking part to me.

Do you uh are you you still talk to folks in the White House? Yeah. What what's the mood there right now? What are they what

not good right now? They understand. They completely understand after the second execution, if I can say that. Like, you know, it's it's like it's like the Gary Lson, and I'm making no light of this, but it's like Gary Lson, you know, you had a witch that was like, I better not get into this. I I'll stop right there. I'll tell you the Gary Lson thing later. But yeah, by the second execution, they figured out this was not a good political move. Like they don't and and they don't I say it's not a good political move because it took that for Republicans, some Republicans to finally say enough. A guy was executed in the streets of America.

Yeah. It it's it's absolutely savage. It's shocking. And also as like a guy who grew up a quote small government conservative, where are these so-called conservative libertarians in the Republican party? We literally have masked troops going through our cities and shooting people because of the first amendment. I mean, because they're exercising the first amendment rights. What I can't tell is clearly there's people in that White House who can read polls, can watch the coverage, hear from Republicans.

This is what disturbs me. Keep going cuz this is what disturbs me. They should know better. They do know better.

They do know better. And then they're realizing this is a political problem for them,

right? But you know, arguably the most powerful official in the White House, Steven Miller,

right? Like this is his brainchild. This is his life's work. Mhm. Uh I think he is very smart. He has figured out the four years that they weren't in the White House, he took to figure out like, you know, how he could advance his agenda next time.

And he can also read polls. I think the difference is he doesn't really give a that it's unpopular and he just wants to push it through. And so my fear is that this is, you know, they're backtracking. They want to do some window dressing. want to fix the PR problem, but then when attention moves on to the next outrage and the next thing, Miller is still, you know, just he's going to find quieter ways that are just as damaging to carry out this agenda.

I think I I think that's a very re reasonable thing to to to to assume is going to happen. I will say this past week there has been I think more of an understanding inside the White House that going back to what they thought they were going to be able to do is not a viable option.

And I think at this point um Donald Trump's focus now has to be on the polls. He's already said if I if Democrats take control I'm going to be impeached several times again. He's already told the media, I don't even think we should have elections in 2026. You saw what happened yesterday in Georgia. You saw Pam Bondi going, you know, we may draw down if you turn over your voter roles. I think this is the new obsession and they understand they can't have a repeat of Minneapolis between now and election time cuz there was such an overwhelming reaction. But, you know, Maggie Haberman, uh, who's been covering him actually even longer than I have, Maggie knows Donald Trump, and you know what she's always said about him when people ask, "Why does he do this?" She's like, "Because he can."

And this year, nobody has stopped him. Republicans haven't stopped him in in in Congress. The Supreme Court hasn't stopped him. This is the first time the people of Minnesota stopped him just like actually, you know, some leaders in Europe stopped him the week before.

I heard you uh on Jimmy Kimmel show say that you last time you spoke to Trump was right after uh Minnesota.

Right after after the call. After the Yeah, after the call. Asked him about that. Yeah.

With Walls. With Waltz. Yeah. Um what was what was his mood like? Did he seem like this was like he understood the gravity of the situation or was this like a I'm dealing with it and that's that?

Yeah. No, I I I think he again it's it's so hard to to read him uh just because he'll say one thing one day and then the next you'll you'll get something completely different. But he said it needed to be done that he's like, "Yeah, it needed to be done. It there's been this is just too much. they've gone too far. You know, the killings are terrible. And um and and then of course he says Renee Good's killing is actually probably worse,

right? Cuz big Trump fans cuz Yeah, they're big big Trump fans. Thank you. Um yeah, just a different different level there. Uh, I don't even understand it. But I do think there is an understanding that things got so out of control that it was damaging them politically. You know, internal polls showing that Trump support has dropped as precipitously as Biden's did

after Afghanistan, the the messy withdrawal from Afghanistan. So I uh you mentioned like what he's focused on from the outside, someone who's just like watched this for too long now. It does seem like in this term, so he's worried about the poll numbers because he's worried about the midterms, but it seems like most of his focus now is like uh interior decorating,

right? Uh the renovations, putting his name on um trying to get prizes, getting people to come suck up to him. Like he's just

he's a host, right? Right. And he's just like having a good time in the White House. And um then you have Miller, Vance, some of the people just like driving a pretty extreme agenda that Trump

agrees with mostly but is not getting into the details on. That's what it seems. I don't know if that's like

Yeah. Well, you know, we we've noticed on the show he's been strangely disconnected from the most important issues for Republicans in the House and the Senate. Um, you know, during the government shutdown, I just don't think you ever saw it coming. And and it seems like every morning we were talking about the government shutdown. We were talking about skyrocketing health care costs. We're talking about how Republicans are just crushing working Americans, middle class Americans. You know, there would be a picture of Donald Trump you know, we'd be saying, meanwhile, Donald Trump on his Asian tour and I had to say, glad he's there. He needs to be in Asia. He need presidents need to do this. That said, these are just savage pictures for House Republicans because, you know, he's gone from the Middle East to Asia to all over the world, obsessing over Denmark, obsessing over Venezuela. It's the last thing. I mean, as as a former

politician and I and you know, obviously inside inside the White House, the last thing you want is Americans to think you're more obsessed with what's going on over there than over here. And that's the impression that he's given. So, yeah, weirdly disconnected from that. The the the horrid big beautiful bill, whatever they called it, he never went out and campaigned on that.

Yeah. Republicans, that's so upside down for good reason. I mean, it's the worst bill. That's I and I say this as a former Republican I conser the worst bill I I think that's ever been like put together but he didn't campaign on that. He hasn't campaigned on affordability. They try to get him out on the campaign trail and he says affordability is a hoax. like you may I mean I I I tell Ma who right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right rightfully she catastrophizes but this is a difference between sort of conservative temperaments and progressive temperaments at least those that I have seen up close she catastrophizes and I I just get angry and and but but but I was like it you know it's it's going to be okay because

I said this is all so disturbing every today and it seems so damaging to our republic, but I suspect somebody that had a little more emotional distance on this that maybe wasn't American

would be saying it is really awful, but that guy is doing more to destroy the Republican party long term than anybody else could do. And I think he is

for sure. For sure. The catastrophizing thing is interesting because I I deal with this I think like all the time and I think when we talk on this pod and talk about stuff I I don't love catastrophizing. I don't want to ever unnecessarily alarm people.

Um partly because I don't think that's good for everyone's system. And I also think that if everything is in an 11 then you can't differentiate what's really

if everything's 11 nothing's 11. But at the same time, you look over the last decade and all of the all of the craziest predictions of what Donald Trump might do.

Um I I don't know if they match, you know, like I don't think anyone was saying, "Oh, then he's going to try to invade Greenland and then there's going to be federal agents shooting Americans in the street and they're going to try to cover it up, right?" And so it's like constantly the concerns and and catastrophizing of whether it's the center left, never Trump, Republicans, whatever it may be, end up coming true. And I I I try to figure out like how to deal with that tension, right?

How do you how do you think about that as someone who talks to people about the news every day?

I I the way I think about it is I I when my wife says, "How bad's it going to get?" I go, "Oh, it's going to get really bad." But

when people ask me, "How do I handle this?" So, I we got to do it a day at a time.

Yeah. Let's take what's in front of us and let's separate the signal from the ground noise.

Yeah. When I was first in Congress, you know, I you know, I get angry, wave my arms, and you know, I was I gave a speech in Pensacola and an old general who old admiral who was in charge of naval aviation and training came up to me. You go, son. You got to learn to separate the signal from the ground noise. And I will say over Trump's first term and during the campaign, I didn't do that.

And so if you're calling a candidate a fascist every day, and like you said, if it's at an 11 every day, then you know, if everything's 11, nothing's 11. So we've tried to separate the signal from the ground noise. when he said, "I'm going to seek a third term." I'm like, "No, he's not."

Yeah. He's just trying to piss you off because Donald Trump's political superpower is getting people like us to overreact

or to react to what he does. And then he feeds off of that. He points at us, goes, "Look, they've got Trump derangements and look how crazy they are. Look, they said I was going to do this." So that's the first part of it is first of all take more of an approach the Gavin Newsome sort of taking now

poking poking at him. But the second thing is and again I'll keep saying this because I do think there's sort of this temperamental difference with a lot of conservatives how they approach politics and progressives. The exception being Barack Obama, guy you worked with. Barack Obama like

raised a lot of money. What did he do with that money? Organized on the ground in Iowa. Organized on the ground. And so when I see people in marches,

the Republican in me is like, don't march. Go knock on people's doors. Get their cell phone numbers. Like get get a phone bank going. And of course, I don't denigrate marchers. I'm not doing that. I promise. I'm not. But that's just sort of the mindset and that's what Barack Obama I remember Barack Obama when he first came on the scene. I was like,

you know, these old white guys are like, you know, oh my god, I'm so, you know, they're reliving the civil rights move. And I go, he's not going to beat the Clinton campaign. There's no way, right? And so then he gets a lot of fundraising. Okay, that's you know lot of old white liberals who are trying to relive 196869. This is a new civil rights movement. This is R. Kennedy which yes I I love Chris Matthews but every night yes this is our Bobby Kennedy. It's like Bobby's here again.

But I will say what made Barack Obama so different is when I read a New York Times story in the summer of '07 and said he's piling all of his money into organization. I go, "This guy's going to win." Because that's what you have to do. So my answer is, what do you do about it? Like get upset, fear the worst is going to happen, and then figure out what you do

to to stop it, to short circuit it, and to organize because I think the organization,

the remarkable organization that Barack Obama had, and the the focus on that is something that's been missing from the Democratic party since he left. it has. I think you need someone and some set of values and vision to organize around to get people excited. I think that's that's part of it. It's not you can't just pour money into it. Um but it was interesting. I talked to um Lydia Paul Green uh last week. She's from Minnesota and she wrote a piece in the Times about what's going on there and we were talking about

the people on the ground and she said protesters and she's like actually I don't even like saying protesters because it's more organizing than it is just protesting. you see some of the protesting. She's like, but it is people going to their neighbor's house, bringing them food, making sure that their kids have a rides to school, and there's like they're getting to know strangers and pe and and who are their neighbors and sort of forming a tighter community that way. And to me,

that is even more politically powerful than one show of force in the streets, which I do think is, you know, sometimes necessary. But I do think that like what's lasting is the organizing muscles that are getting built right now. Yeah, that is that is so powerful. When when I I first ran in '94, nobody knew who I was. I knocked on 10,000 doors. I built up volunteers. We had phone banks, you know. We called people so much that they would scream, "If you call me again."

Yeah. I will never vote for him. Yeah. And they go, "What do you do?" I go, "Call him again. Just keep calling them." You know, and we organized and and we're going up against people that had more money and everything else. And it's that is the key because you're you're right. to build this community. Uh and and it it is the small things like you said going to your neighbor's house who you maybe've never met, ask them if they need anything and you know like and

that's that's that's what what has to be done especially in these days you know when I ran in 94

um I was struck that you couldn't organize around neighborhoods because I grew up you know in the 60s and 70s. I was I was born in the 60s but grew up neighborhoods were still sort of a good thing to organize around. Nobody was home. Like I'd go knock on doors. Nobody was home

in the afternoon. So you had to go to different organizations. Now with social media it's even worse. But you've you've still got to do that. That's one of the things in during 2000 in 2020.

Yes. Democrats weren't knocking on doors. Right. Yeah. And I think and I just sat there going, "Oh my god, this is this is horrible." because you know there were a lot of people that came to Florida pre-COVID. They were organizing. They were going to make a difference. And I said, "Well, so what what did you do once co?" They left. They just left. And I remember hearing AOC uh saying right before the campaign. We had to knock on doors. Like put on a mask if you want to wear mask, but we and that's the only way to do it.

Yeah. Um if you're And I actually say I got to say progressives seem to understand that. I'm talking a lot about the catastrophizing. The great thing about progressives, a couple of great things about first, they're very patient and I thought during

Biden's term thought they were extraordinarily pragmatic, was really impressive time and time again. And I know Nancy had a lot to do with that because she a once in a-lifetime talent,

but progressives were very disciplined there. But the second thing is they know how to organize. And people like AOC and Bernie, they understand you can't just put something on Instagram and and you know think that shit's going to happen cuz it doesn't. It happens when they go out knock on doors and and again like you said, you know, give people a message that they can believe in. I mean, I I always, you know, I think the image of the left that's sometimes reflected in the media, and this is the same with center left Democrats, Senate right Democrats. The biggest difference is between the people that you see on social media who are only spending their time doing politics on social media and then people who've actually had to talk to voters and organize communities, whether they are far-left, center right, whatever it may be. Because if you've ever had to actually go talk to someone and persuade them,

you are going to approach politics more strategically and effectively than if you're just keyboard warrior all the time.

And what did AOC do? And the only reason I'm going back to AOC is because she does a lot of things, right? What did AOC do after Donald Trump won? She sought out voters in her district that voted for Donald Trump.

Yeah. And Manny did that, right? That's how he started his campaign. Right. Exactly. So why did you vote for Donald Trump? How could you vote? And AOC asked, "Wait, how can you vote for Donald Trump and me? Explain that to me." That's that's what Democrats need to do. Yeah.

Figure out, okay, how do we pull them back on our side? And and by the way, I'm not being critical of the Democratic party because, hey, I like plenty of criticism.

I like democracy. I like we got we got, you know, this is like I figure this is like a war cabinet. If I'm, you know, if I'm Clement Atley, I will I will hang with Winston Church and we got to beat the Nazis.

I'm talking, of course, of World War II. Not the Nazis now. No. Exactly. Exactly. Everybody's wonderful.

If you're a me a Republican member of Congress right now and you're running for re-election in this environment with this president

in this version of the GOP, like what is your strategy from now until November?

I would I wouldn't I wouldn't run. Okay. I've I've told people that are Republicans that call me up and go, "Don't run. You can't run because if you run,

you can't break from Donald Trump. You can't break from Donald Trump. Then he'll crush you. But you can't But then if then if you just go along with it, I mean, obviously it's horrifically uh morally, but you're also just going to

You could get crushed. You you get crushed, but also why would you want to spend your life every day saying Donald Trump said this today? How do you justify it? Oh, I I didn't see that. Oh, I I can't I can't imagine

I don't know how many Republicans in Congress you still talk to, but like why that is what why are they like is the job that great? Are they worried that they the next job they're not going to get cuz he's going to like what is it?

I can't understand it. I can't understand a lot of it. U because I held the job and I like the job, but the job wasn't worth putting up with

Yeah. and and these people are doing it. I will say when I see Tom Tillis who now is speaking out, but when I saw Tom Tillis at Davos still kissing up to Donald Trump, I this I I I've been I've talked about this on the pod with Tillis because I'm like appreciate that he's saying a few things here and there, but he's still like, oh, it's he's getting bad advice. It's not and his the president's wonderful legacy will be tarnished. I'm like, what do you got to lose? What? Well, so so this goes to my other theory, which is Joanie Ernst, it was sort of a open secret that one of the reasons Joanie Ernst voted for Hexith is she let people on the Hill know that she and her family were threatened. She was scared not to vote for Hexit. So when I see Tom Tillis, who has nothing to lose, Yeah. still saying what he's saying. I've just got to I've just got to think that he's not intimidated by Donald Trump because

Donald Trump can't hurt anymore. He must be worried about about his safety. I don't know. Scary place. Doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. It just And but but again, the bigger point is the congressional pin's not worth it. It's just it's just not. I I will say what I would love to do if I were 30 31 32 years old. I would love to run this year as a Democrat.

It would be so fun. I mean, it would be it would be you could savage. I would call for 30 debates and I would I would just I would I would take an old-fashioned up and I would just I I could go in drunk and I'm not even a drinker. But there are so many opportunities for the Democrats to do it. But I Minneapolis is heinous. It's horrible. But man, I would I would just talk economics. Yeah,

I talked about Minneapolis and obviously the threats to to American democracy, but as far as as far as seizing sort of the middle back from Republicans, a family I think I saw in the Wall Street Journal, a family that makes like $120,000 a year, their premiums are $45,000 for health insurance. You've got big insurance companies that that first of all, you know, skyrocketing premiums. A doctor will say, "You need this for your your health or your child's health or whatever, and then big insurance companies will deny it,

and then you get home from the doctor and you get all these bills that have hidden costs."

Yeah. And so between health care, between housing, the fact that, you know, I saw a poll yesterday that something like three out of four uh young Americans, people from like 18 to 29, don't think the American dream's possible. Don't think they'll ever be able to. When I was uh when I was younger, I was from a very middle class family. I got my first house at 26. wasn't really that much of a stretch. Now, you know, people I say kids because I'm so old, you know, people in their 20s aren't getting houses in their 30s aren't getting houses. There is the great divide now is between people that buy and people who rent and and rent is getting more and more out of out of reach. So between groceries still going up, rent, healthc care, the fact that that billionaires got the biggest tax cuts ever, multinational corporations got the biggest tax cuts ever, monopolies got the, you know, I I called I'll use his name. I called Ari Emanuel

like during during uh you know, before COVID and I said, "Hey, Ari, um I just I I I never invest in stocks. I don't I don't trust Wall Street, but I know you do. And I go, "What do what should you what should I invest in if I if I invest?" He goes, "H, invest in the monopolies." And I'm sitt there quiet for I go, "The monop what are you talking THE MONOPOLIES, AMAZON, APPLE, and he went down the list, Microsoft?" He goes, "They're monopolies. you can't lose my and you know but that's the first time I thought about it one of the reasons I'm such a huge Lena Khan fan

because there are monopolies that need to be broken into a billion tiny pieces let me ask you that because like you were so you were a conservative Republican congressman

right over the years how much have you changed your political views versus the world has changed

I I think um and the party has changed. So, so I you know I always was I always was a a populist sort of conservative populist. So I always was talking about taxing multinational corporations and we had something called the Mexican bailout that I was against because it wasn't a Mexican bailout. It was a bailout of Goldman Sachs. So that that part's very natural to me. So I'm one of those guys we talked about Bernie before. When when I hear Bernie talk, I'm like, "Yeah, I said about half of that stuff from the conservative side." So, James, I think the biggest change is because the political world's changed so much. I used to have more of a sort of hands-off approach. My belief was that what the local government could do, the local government should do, and everybody else should stay out of the way. What the state should do, the state what the federal government should do. So on social issues, whether it was abortion

or whether it was marriage equality, I'd be like, you know, seriously, do we, you know, I'm not going to tell people in Vermont what they need to do, you know, when comment I was at a town hall meeting, you know, one of my first ABOLISH THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, ABOLISH, YOU KNOW, AND EVERYBODY'S CHEERING cheering and you know, they asked ME SOMETHING, WHAT ABOUT EDUC DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND SEND ALL THE MONEY BACK TO AND THEN SOMEBODY stood up, THEY GO, WHAT ABOUT THOSE GAY PEOPLE IN VERMONT? YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY HAD just passed common law marriage, which was radical at the time. And I just stopped. I was like, why do you care what gay people in Vermont are doing? I said, why don't we why don't we have an agreement? We're not going to tell them what to do with their lives, and they don't tell us what to do with our lives in Northwest Florida. And then, of course, I, you know, turned that frown

upside down. Um, but that's what's changed the most. I used to have this sort of federalism approach, sort of a 10th amendment

post civil rights uh federalism approach where let's let the states do what the states do.

But when I when I felt that way, you know, George Voic was governor in Ohio, Jeb Bush was governor in Florida, Mitt Romney was governor in Utah, and then John Huntsman. These were people that I felt, you know, kind of like uh Spencer Cox.

Yeah. Who has been, I think, fairly compassionate on the trans issue. A conservative, but still compassionate. Come on, guys.

Said some great stuff about social media. Yeah. Said some good really great stuff about social media. So, but that's how I saw Republican governors back in the 1990s.

I can't feel that way anymore. I can't trust what Greg Abbott's going to do. You can't trust what's going to happen in in a lot of deep red states as far as on issues involving people's rights, their their their livelihoods.

What does a like a postTrump version of the Republican party look like to you that is healthy and viable and and like and that you could see it actually happening, not like fantasy camp?

Yeah. Now, you know, it I don't think it can happen because I've gotten past being shocked and stunned and deeply saddened by what Donald Trump does.

Yeah. And now I'm shocked and stunned and deeply saddened that an overwhelming majority of Americans are perfectly fine with Republican Republicans are perfectly fine

with what ICE is doing. And you sit there and you go, how the hell could a majority of Republicans think what's going on is okay? They do right now.

Yeah. So, I don't know how there's this base. I mean, I've always been a big believer that that when Ronald Reagan comes along in 1980, the party becomes what Ronald Reagan is because he's such a big force. Same thing with Barack Obama. Barack Obama comes along,

the Democratic party, yeah, is Barack Obama. Same thing with Donald Trump. I've always believed when Donald Trump leaves,

you know, just like the Obama magic, the Reagan magic, it's not transferable. Yeah. Even Bill Clinton being able to get away with everything, not even transferable to Hillary. Nope.

Like he's Bill Clinton, he gets away with everything, you know. So these these are not like funible commodities. So it depends on who the leader of the Republican party is.

Uh coming up, would you would you bet uh Vance is the nominee if you had to pick right now?

I don't think so. I think somebody I know this is shocking. Yeah. I think it might be somebody worse.

Worse than Vance. worse than Vance. That's what I think too. And by the way, Vance,

I think either Vance by default because no one else could get it together. But if it's not Vance, like I don't think it's Rubio. I think it's some like I think it's like a a Tucker Carlson type.

That's that's exactly what I'm thinking from from if Tucker Carlson doesn't decide to run, which I I I I don't know if he would or not, but somebody from that wing

Yeah. of the movement, I I don't think I even want to say party right now. and and you look at what's happening in the Republican party and right now they're the the great divide sort of the Nick Fuentes

Yeah. divide and then you know they have that's where the energy is. They they have um you know the event uh the turning point event and Ben Shapiro gets up and you know the Jew gets up and say maybe we shouldn't attack Jews and then the rest of the the event people are attacking the Jew that says we shouldn't attack Jews and they're all like hammering Ben Shapiro and you sit there going you know this is going to get a lot darker before it gets better. So, I really don't think that there's I I think the Republicans are going to have to lose quite a few times before uh they either they either reform themselves or move into a new party.

Who do you think the strongest Dems are for 28? I don't know. Yeah, I really don't. It's like, you know, I just don't know how Gavin Newsome plays in New Hampshire.

Yeah. I really wanted Josh Shapiro to be the VP because I don't know. I like the idea of putting Pennsylvania in your camp and then going, "Okay, now I only have to worry about winning Michigan and Wisconsin and then I win." Right.

Right. Uh but I don't know. I mean, I don't know if if I don't know how Josh Piro will will uh will be when he goes whether it's New Hampshire or at South Carolina. You know, I those are two guys who are gonna have to do well in black churches in South Carolina.

I know people in Georgia Democratic primary and and and Democratic presidents who win.

Um you got to be broadly acceptable. Yeah. To the base and inspire the base and excite the base and broadly acceptable to the rest of the country. And like you you can't pick one. You got to do both.

And it it's really two different skill sets which of course Barack Obama had both of them. Bill Clinton had both of them. So you do it. You've got to be able to appeal to white progressives in New Hampshire. And then you got to go down to the churches in South Carolina and in Atlanta and and and across the South.

You can't be saying different either, especially in this environment. You got you got to be you in both of those places.

You've got to be you. And the one thing I found is that um it was so fascinating

um that Elijah Cummings was a good friend of ours, married Ma and me. We went to the funeral and I won't mention too many Democrats saying, but national democratic figures would go up and they all gave their eulogy and it's just like especially this happens especially in a black church. You walk in, man, and you know who has the crowd and who doesn't have the crowd. Um, and there are a couple of national politicians who've run for president that walked up and there's just like they were from Mars. And then Bill Clinton fighting Parkinson's walks up and he's like, Elijah coming. And I just sat there. I was like, whoa, this is why Bill Clinton did what Bill Clinton did and Barack Obama did what Barack Obama did. Because

it's a lost art. They It is a lost art. they can appeal to. They can walk into people's living rooms in Ashawa or in a gym and and connect with those people and then they can walk into a church in, you know, Greenville, uh, South Carolina, and do the same thing. It's it it's just

Yeah. You either have it or you don't. And so that's the thing. Who who I Let me ask you, you know better than me. Who Who sort of has the feel?

No one. yet. No one yet. And I I'm done pretending that someone does. Yeah. And uh you know, like

you have a whole campaign. You uh you can grow into the role, right? So like I'm fully open to the fact that someone

who we're all talking about now emerges as just a much stronger candidate than anyone thought. Um, but as of now,

I I don't I I think I think there's a lot of like good solid Democratic politicians who in their current role, I'm like really proud that they're in that role and I like them and but like no one that I think is at that next level. And I think that because of the political environment right now and the urgency of the moment, you actually the bar is just higher for uh Democratic policy.

It is higher. It's also it's higher for the type of candidate that Democrats need because

everybody's nervous and looking over their shoulder and you've got to know who you are.

You've got to not, you know, you got to and not play a part or play a role because you think this time requires it of you, right? And I think to Joe Biden's credit in 20 I think one of the reasons he won is because Joe Biden did know who he was right was comfortable in his own skin.

Um I do think I do remember at the time though everyone's like you know after four years of Donald Trump we don't need anyone exciting. We don't need anyone who's going to get these give these big and inspire a lot of people. you just need someone just just return to normaly that

I don't agree with that and I didn't agree with it then I really don't agree with it now because um I'm not saying you have to govern like from an ideological standpoint that's far left or center or whatever it be but I think you have to inspire people and connect with people

in a way that is different than just end the madness of Trump just vote for this just vote for this Democrat and that's

yeah I I I think I think in 26 something beats or nothing beats something. Yes, I think this year Democrats can win that way. I think in 28 I don't think that's the case and I think there's an extraordinary opportunity for Democrats to step forward and look again just what's happened since I left Congress. Whether you want to look at the, you know, we went from balancing the budget four years in a row to having like a 38$39 trillion debt brought to you in large part by Donald Trump and George W. Bush. And so you can look at that crisis, you can look at the AI crisis.

you know, we we saw what sort of the tech revolution did uh to post-industrial America. It just absolutely gutted it. And um AI is going to just be savage. It's going to be even worse. It's going to do for white collar work. The

AI people are as the AI founders are telling us. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It it's going to do to blue collar and Well, actually, it's a it's it's sort of a a a double gut punch. white collar workers are going to be just absolutely devastated by by AI and a lot of bluecollar jobs are going to go away because robotics

and they are obsessed I mean you know people that that that run industry and and corporations they're obsessed with getting ahead by doing that and and a lot of people are just not going to get jobs by attrition so that that's got to be approached in the right way I think I think that's critical I think like and and and then this affordability crisis like we're we are losing the middle class. We're losing the American dream. Uh, and we're losing it because for the past 30 years, you've had Democratic administrations and Republican administrations being a lot more sort of focused on Wall Street and focused on um, you know, the bottom line for for corporations than than worried about again the rest of the country.

Yeah. Uh Joe Scarboro, thanks for stopping by Pod Save America and you got a new newsletter. Uh not really new now, but I know that I know your newsletter. The tea

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It's really what happened here. Um, bless you. Um, here's another example of just how out of control ICE has gotten in the Twin Cities. So, this is a video of an ICE agent trying to force his way into an Ecuadorian diplomatic facility. Let's watch.

Relax. Relax. Okay, relax. I cannot answer. If you touch me, I will grab you. If you touch me, I will grab you. Okay. Okay. You cannot. Okay. Okay.

You cannot enter. All right. You cannot enter here. This is the foreign government. You cannot enter. Right. So, if you couldn't hear it, the this ICE agent is trying to rush into the facility. Uh, the embassy employee goes to the door and the agent tells the employee, "If you touch me, I will grab you." Not sure what that means. Uh, and the employee replies, "You cannot enter here. This is a console. This is a foreign government property." He's like, "Boss, boss, I found this building. It's filled with Ecuadorian nationals. They know it's they're just sitting there.

They're acting They're acting like they're acting like that the laws here don't apply to them.

Sitting ducks." Yeah. Honestly, some right-wingers on Twitter were after this were posting like, "This is unbelievable. We got to have Trump shut the Ecuadorian embassy down. They're impeding investigations. They're impeding law enforcement operations." Like, are you You just You don't get it. Huh? You just don't get it.

For For those who don't, the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations says, "Fucking this guy."

US. Oh, no. International law. Call the H. Go on. Go. I'm backing John up. US agents can't enter an embassy without consent from the head of mission. Like you can't execute a search warrant. You can't seize property. The protections for consulates are a little smaller. So that's probably a consulate. But basically it's like like you can't just bust into the building sort of threatening the staff and threatening to detain them.

If if if to speak in the language of some like that that that maybe the ICE people would understand, lethal weapon three, they have diplomatic immunity. They're they're on the grounds of the consulate.

That's right. It's it's it's odd that they were uh trying the consulate because I've been reliably told by Trisha Mclofflin and others that ICE only conducts targeted enforcement operations, that they're not just going around grabbing people, that everything is targeted. So, I don't know.

Well, it's a it's a wide list of targets. Yeah. It's nice now that that um you know diplomatic staff from foreign countries in the United States have to treat the border uh uh the fence line to US soil as like the DMZ where if like you kind of go across you have to have someone holding your back in case you're grabbed from the outside. Really really really great society jumpade. Can I go back to the the Steven Miller uh gnome sort of cover up blaming the blame game thing just for the rules just to talk about one more thing and I promise it's it's it's kind of fun and petty so I thought that would be good for us.

I mean if we if Tommy will allow us to guess you the floor the first time. So um uh Katie Miller, wife of Stephen Miller, podcast host extraordinaire. Um

we have the same job. Y she Yes, exactly. doing the same job. And uh what she did is she was posting the Axio story that you were reading from just to sort of defend her husband. And um Ilana Garcia uh who was the co-founder of Latinos for Trump and she's quoted in a New York Times piece this week saying that Trump's going to lose the the midterms because of Steven Miller. And uh and so then Katie Miller, her next tweet was uh she decided to say that I was fired from DHS in the first term because she didn't show up to work.

And then Iana quote tweets Katie Miller and says, "Invite me to your podcast so we can have a candid discussion about what truly transpired and how you labeled your then boyfriend a racist when you were upset that he treated you poorly and me as a mere token Hispanic for the administration. Let's discuss who was responsible for the leaks in the White House and how you helped carve the floor out from under then Secretary Kirstston Nielsen."

Wow, that sounded I have to say that that's very specific. That's very specific. You're calling boyfriend Steven Miller, right?

Yeah, I hope so. Boyfriend Steven had a previous boyfriend. Maybe she had too. Maybe there Katie Miller also didn't know what liberal democracy meant federalism or leftist. So, not the brightest bull.

Invite her on. Go on the show, Elena. Or you could come on this show and talk about it

anytime. Uh, back to the Ecuador incident. So, there was an incident like this back during the George HW Bush administration that did lead to a big diplomatic row. We should watch a

row. Are you Jack Blanch? Wow. I would say was a row or a round diplomatic community. It's just been revoked

now. Yeah, Danny Glover, that's a good line. I do think it's worth taking a moment to appreciate that most of the the the the premise of of basically every movie from 1980 to 2010 is the rules should not the heroes don't follow the rules. He sumearily executes

South African diplan diplomat. Now in the film we know he's done terrible things murders. murder supporting the apartheid regime but still it's a sort of heroic moment at the end where he's just sumearily executing the man and you do cheer and you do root for Danny Glover and he does hesitate he does hesitate feeling the the two cho the the the two wolves inside of him but

yeah we're kind of on the side of ice here by accident he's a little I do like just I like the way he said diplomatic immunity

diplomatic immunity that was enjoyable that's why I wanted to play the clip okay so Donald Trump wants to be talking about anything else besides ICE in Minnesota on Wednesday, Trump threatened to bomb Iran again. That's cool.

The Armada is coming. Armada is there. What was the quote? Is like it's like big and powerful,

larore. Then he was joined by Nicki Minaj at an event uh to announce this new savings program for kids. Um here's humble soybean farmer and Treasury Secretary Scott Bestin talking about this new plan. to all the moms and dads out there that are watching right now, they should sign up now, right, for Trump accounts during this tax season.

We've already had uh just in the past few days 500,000 families sign up. We believe there are about 25 million who are eligible. So go on on the the IRS website. Uh it's form 4547 and every everyone should do it. And it's a it's a great way because you can also, you know, if relative rather than giving a toy for a birthday, for a holiday, uh they can contribute to these accounts. You know, I I think we're going to see a substantial drop in people playing the lottery because you you've won the lottery. You you've got $1,000 and the the power of compound interest. Families can add to that. So, this is really a new kind of philanthropy. It is direct to children.

What child doesn't want the S&P index fund right? Wait, so sometimes kids walk around chanting compound interest.

Yeah, that's right. Well, let's wait. So, what this is I I I missed. So, what is he doing? What what what's

Baby Bonds is you can invest on behalf of your of your cousin or some but he's saying instead of getting him a toy,

you you get him the donation donations. Baby Bonds was like the, you know, high neol '9s ideas. Cory Booker's pushed baby bonds for a long time. I mean, and like you can't you can barely find coverage of this today, which is which is sort of amazing and says all you need to know.

You did the event with Nicki Minaj. I was going to say covered, but also it's like the Nicki Minaj angle is her being like, I'm Trump's number one fan. God is protecting him. And those pictures and then the the sound bite they got from it was that doofus talk talking about maybe maybe there's less toys. Well, the Nicki Maj is funny cuz she goes up there, she's like, "I'm his number one fan. Even though everyone hates him and attacks me for liking him, I still do it anyway." I was like, "That's a really nice endorsement."

Yeah, I was thinking about that cuz you don't sort Nicki Minaj instinctively into the same category as the people who like the tech bros for whom like social media destroyed like rotted their brains. You do feel a little bit like

Democrat the Democrats were the people that were attacking her over the years for various statements that she's made, co stuff, all the other stuff. And like that's a little like because because because if you really believed in something who lost Nicki Minaj we lost Nicki Minaj and say we lost Nicki Minaj and Joe Rogan. It's a long list but but you have to imagine that like if if you really love something and believed in it. You wouldn't say like I love this and that's not changing. You would just would never say that. You wouldn't be defensive about it.

Yeah. I just love it. The affordability push is going well. Did you guys um hear when Trump was giving a speech in Iowa, some uh lady in the audience interrupted him when he started talking about how gas is only $1.95 or $185 in Iowa? And some woman shouts from the crowd, "No, it's not. It's $263."

Yeah. And it was $2.69 at the venue. It's like it's like, "Hey, you make me upset that your your gas is more expensive." But uh you know, on the other hand, they are killing Americans in the street. So, it's just a

The argument uh has a new poll out that find that like 24% of I think white Trump voters were abandoning him over prices and just this moment of watching the news and it's horrible and like the attack on the rule of law and death in the streets and like did that undo Trump? It certainly was bad for Trump, but really was the price of gas and his failure to attack affordability and that will have been the thing. Real quick, uh one more little clip of Bezant we want to watch here

in case you don't know it. I'm actually a soybean farmer. So, uh I I have felt this pain too.

Gets me every time. Never negative charisma. There's so many different kinds of zero charisma men at the top of this thing.

Negative aura. Again, that was a preview of Pod Save America Only Friends. Sign up to become a friend of the pod at crooked.comfriend to get Only Friends and lots lots more. That's our show for today. Thanks to Joe Scarboro for coming by. Love it. going to be back in the feed with a new show on Sunday. Talk to everybody then.

Bye everyone.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Trump BLINKS After Minnesota Stares Him Down"?

John Favreau (Host), Dan Pfeiffer (Host), Joe Scarborough (Guest).

What is "Trump BLINKS After Minnesota Stares Him Down" about?

The discussion centers on the potential for the White House to negotiate with Democrats on reforms for ICE in light of threats of a government shutdown and highlights concerns over the FBI's raid on Georgia's election headquarters. It also touches on Donald Trump's continued focus on the 2020 election and introduces a new subscriber-only episode series.

What is mentioned in this Pod Save America episode?

32 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, Alex Jeffrey Prey, ICE, Steven Little Miller, John Favreau, Minnesota. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Trump BLINKS After Minnesota Stares Him Down"?

The episode runs 2 h 3 min; the transcript is about 23,173 words in 325 timestamped sections.

More from Pod Save America

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 30, 2026.