Transcript

World BOOS As Trump Goes INSANE In UNHINGED Move

From Pod Save America · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 51 min · 24,480 words · 303 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "World BOOS As Trump Goes INSANE In UNHINGED Move", an episode of Pod Save America published January 20, 2026 (1 h 51 min, about 24,480 words). It mentions 23 people, works and ideas, including Donald Trump, Nobel Peace Prize, Crooked Media, Supreme Court, Jason Zangerly.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Donald Trump, Nobel Peace Prize, Crooked Media, Jason Zangerly
  2. – 20:00: Donald Trump, Crooked Media, Supreme Court, Davos
  3. – 30:00: Crooked Media, Supreme Court
  4. – 40:00: John Wick
  5. – 50:00: Donald Trump
  6. – 1:00:00: Cook Unity, Better Help, Donald Trump, Nobel Peace Prize
  7. – 1:10:00: Tim Alberta, Mary Pollah
  8. – 1:20:00: Crooked Media, Jason Zangangerly, Crooked Media Reads, AG1
  9. – 1:30:00: Donald Trump
  10. – 1:50:00: Donald Trump
  11. – 1:51:23: Hated by All the Right People, Crooked Media, Jason Zangangerly

Notable quotes from "World BOOS As Trump Goes INSANE In UNHINGED Move"

  • Contenders on the Democratic side. And then Tommy talks to our pal Jason Zangerly about his new book published by Crooked Media Reads that explores the rise of Tucker Carlson.…
    about Crooked Media · at
  • President from capturing Minneapolis and Nuke, especially now that Caracus has fallen. Trump announced over the weekend that he'll be imposing a new 10% tariff on Denmark…
    about Donald Trump · at
  • Well, by the time you guys listen to this, the Supreme Court could have struck down the tariffs, but they're also ready. The trade representative says he's ready with that with new tariffs that somehow are.
    about Supreme Court · at
  • Protect your home like it actually matters because it does. There's no safe like Simplysafe. Podsafe America is brought to you by Willy's Remedy. Are you tired of waking up hung over and worried about what happened last night?
    about Willy's Remedy · at
  • Perspective to better understand your relationships motivations and emotions. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US.
    about Better Help · at
  • Some better choices. And one great way to do that is with meals from Cook Unity. Cook Unity brings restaurant level flavor to your fresh start with chef designed dishes that…
    about Cook Unity · at
  • The srf.org. Pods America is brought to you by AG1. AG1 is the daily health drink that combines your multivitamin pre and probiotic superfoods and antioxidants into one simple green.
    about AG1 · at
  • The Right People, Tucker Carlson and the Unraveling of the Conservative Mind, Jason Zangangerly. Jason, great to see you. Welcome to the show.
    about Jason Zangangerly · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Donald Trump — Person · Primary subject / criticized political figure · 11 mentions · first at
    Central figure driving nearly all discussed news: tariffs tied to Greenland, threats of military action, pardons, and immigration/ICE actions.
  • Jason Zangerly — Person · Interview guest (upcoming segment) / author · 1 mention · first at
    Guest interviewed by Tommy Vietor; author of a Crooked Media Reads book about Tucker Carlson, positioned as a knowledgeable long-time observer of Carlson.
    Beef brewing between potential 2028 contenders on the Democratic side. And then Tommy talks to our pal Jason Zangerly about his new book published by Crooked Media Reads that…
  • Jason Zangangerly — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Tim Alberta — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Yeah. When Seven Days first came out, Tim Alberta asked Josh Shapiro about it.
  • Tommy Vtor — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Mary Pollah — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Of course. we haven't had a chance yet to talk about Mary Pollah entering the Senate race in Alaska, which now gives Democrats a real, if quite narrow path to the majority, if she can pull out a win. And we can also flip.

Books & papers

  • Hated by All the Right People — Book · 5 mentions · first at
    Crooked Media Reads that explores the rise of Tucker Carlson. It's called Hated by All the Right People and you can pre-order it right now. I both highly recommend folks to…

Companies & orgs

  • Crooked Media — Company · Business focus · 8 mentions · first at
    Publisher of the book discussed in the podcast, associated with the hosts.
  • Crooked Media Reads — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at
    Imprint of Crooked Media publishing the discussed book.
    Contenders on the Democratic side. And then Tommy talks to our pal Jason Zangerly about his new book published by Crooked Media Reads that explores the rise of Tucker Carlson.…
  • ICE — Company · 6 mentions
  • Cook Unity — Company · 4 mentions · first at
  • Better Help — Company · 3 mentions · first at
  • Simply Safe Home Security — Company · 1 mention · first at
    We shall see. Today's presenting sponsor is Simply Safe Home Security. Look, we spend all day talking about threats to democracy, but at the very least, you can get rid of threats at home with Simply Safe Home Security.
  • Willy's Remedy — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • Crew — Company · 1 mention
  • NBA — Company · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • John Wick — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Carrying six children because they had been talking to the people. Dude, this would turn me into John Wick. that is like a radicalizing.

Places & events

  • Nobel Peace Prize — Event · Key argument · 2 mentions · first at
    Central to discussions about Trump's diplomatic relations and ego.
    Demonstration of his mental fitness, our oxygenarian leader texted Norway's prime minister Jonas Garto that because Norway decided not to award Trump the Nobel Peace Prize, a…
  • Supreme Court — Event · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned in the context of legal challenges to Trump's policies.
  • Davos — Event · Setting · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed as a venue for international diplomacy and Trump's influence.
    With new tariffs that somehow are going to be more legal than these. so, they're all going to Davos. They're all going to this it's all going down to Davos this week. Trump's…
  • UK — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

  • Willy's Remedy — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Promoted as an alcohol alternative with THC infusion.
  • AG1 — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast.

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro. I'm John Love. And Tommy Vtor. On today's show, we will celebrate two of history's greatest advocates for peace, Martin Luther King Jr. and Donald Trump

by talking about the latter's threat to invade Minnesota and Greenland. We'll also talk about Trump's new tariffs, his latest corrupt pardons and polling that shows he's dragging down his party's midterm chances. We'll also touch on the beef brewing between potential 2028 contenders on the Democratic side. And then Tommy talks to our pal Jason Zangerly about his new book published by Crooked Media Reads that explores the rise of Tucker Carlson. It's called Hated by All the Right People and you can pre-order it right now. I both highly recommend folks to listen to the interview with Jason because he's really smart. Has been following Tucker forever. Has known him forever, but also the book is incredible. It's like an amazing look at who Tucker Carlson is, the arc of his career from kind of like across the mainstream media. Do you guys remember Tucker Carlson worked at MSNBC for a while? Sure do forget hard to

remember that it's more is it more of a heography? Uh yeah, but it sort of tracks his trajectory and what he has become and how that helps you understand the MAGA movement and the incentive structure in you know the media in 2026. It's just it's truly excellent.

I'm very excited to read it. Um but first uh we are now a year into Trump's second term. Uh, and as expected, the forces of freedom on both sides of the Atlantic are rallying to stop the president from capturing Minneapolis and Nuke, especially now that Caracus has fallen. Uh Trump announced over the weekend that he'll be imposing a new 10% tariff on Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the UK, the Netherlands, and Finland. That he will raise to 25% by June if Denmark doesn't let the US buy Greenland, a purchase that along with the tariffs would be paid for by us, the American taxpayer.

Then in a wildly successful demonstration of his mental fitness, our oxygenarian leader texted Norway's prime minister Jonas Garto that because Norway decided not to award Trump the Nobel Peace Prize, a decision that again the Norwegian government has nothing to do with, uh he quote no longer feels an obligation to think purely of peace, although it will always be predominant, but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America. America. Trump then questioned why Denmark has a right to Greenland anyway, writing, quote, there are no written documents. It's only that a boat landed there hundreds of years ago, but also we had boats landing there. This is how he ends it. The world is not secure unless we have complete and total control of Greenland. Thank you, President DJT. Uh protests erupted in Nuke Copenhagen and other European cities, including at an NBA game in London during the national

anthem. Let's listen. America's hot right now. Hottest country in the world. Golden age. Good stuff. Uh so I guess uh Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Machado was a little too late in giving her her peace prize to Trump. So now we're going to war with Scandinavia. Is that what's is that what's happening?

It was really was a there was something about this weekend it being the oneear mark. And all these things overlapping kind of hit me at once. We're going to talk about it, but Greg Greg Bevino marching around Minneapolis like gay general Franco and like the the the the barely literate threats to Norway over Greenland

via text. Do you think there was any emojis in the text? Was it so it was a text? It's described as a letter in most

everyone's described as a letter, but the Times, which I, you know, trust the New York Times, it was a text and then they of course retrofitted the text into a letter

and then and then that that was what happened. Oh man, a lot of texts give you anxiety. Imagine that one.

I guess I guess the the Norwegian prime minister texted Trump first along and I think he had um the Finnish prime minister on the text group chat. That's a green bubble chat right there. You know it.

Android City. And then Trump responded in kind. Oh my god. [sighs] Yeah, it's uh it's pretty it's pretty bleak. And I I was really thinking about what would it have been like one year ago, the night before Donald Trump is inaugurated and you can't sleep and so you go to social media and you say, "Here are some things I'm worried about." You would have been

said to be a crazy person. What are you talking about? Cooler heads will prevail.

TDS. And here we are. The invasion of Minneapolis. I might have I might have been worried about for sure.

Sure. Sure. Greenland did not see coming. No, that that's a surprise. That is a surprise.

I I gotta say like there's so much about this that's amazing to me. Like the the logic of um I'm not going to avoid killing people unless you give me a prize for it is just such like a sixth grader like I'm not even going to do my if you won't let me play Xbox like why even bother trying my homework. Also, yeah, as you mentioned, in sitting members of parliament are not allowed to be on the Nobel Committee because they didn't want it to be seen as like a government award. Um, I would also point out that um the the argument that boats landing somewhere a few hundred years ago doesn't mean you own the place will come as a surprise to a lot of these kind of right-wing heritage Americans who think they were the first residents of North America. And then like I just it's worth it's exhausting. I do want to just repeat that Trump has not solved eight wars.

Um, eight plus. Yeah. Not even close. He says he ended a war between Egypt and Ethiopia that was never fought. Like I don't know how to say that differently. There was never one. They have a a long-standing diplomatic dispute over a hydroelectric dam project, but there was never war. He also includes Israel and Iran in there. You guys might recall the United States bombed Iran um as part of that conflict, which doesn't feel very Nobel Peace Prizey. And I just I do want to quickly point out I try not to do this often, but um with respect to Iran, Trump is probably directly responsible for getting thousands of Iranian protesters killed because he tweeted uh that he would quote rescue them protesters if they go to the street, they should take to the streets, take over their government. Then there was a huge crackdown by the Iranian regime. And it seems like the regime saw that tweet, decided to massacre the protesters

before Trump could actually make a decision. And then Trump had tweeted this without his, you know, team getting together to review options or without having an aircraft carrier in the region that could actually facilitate some sort of operation. Um, and then there was this massive crackdown and he's since done nothing about it. So like I just would love the press to give this a fraction of the coverage they gave the Syria redline with Obama because it is uh essentially the same thing. But whatever.

Seems like he put as much thought into that as he did the text to Norway. Yes, here we are. Uh, also we we did sign a treaty with Denmark in 1916 where we recognized their sovereignty over Greenland. We then signed a defense agreement in 2004 recognizing Greenland as an equal part of the Kingdom of Denmark uh in the treaty that we signed way back when. That's when the the Danes gave us the Virgin Islands for $25 million in gold back then. Was good deal back then. Yeah,

because you're making some pretty good um arguments. It's also nuts. Yeah, I was going to say it's like uh it's like you're you're trying to use logic to persuade a silverback gorilla to put that woman who fell into the to the to the down. No, I'm not talking about Harambe.

There's another Oh, man. B, you think that's the first time a grill is ripped off somebody's face? No.

Grow up. Grow up. They'll come for you. Danish combat forces have arrived in Greenland just just hours before this recording. I was reading about some of those European deployments. It was like 13 German troops. What are we doing here?

I think I think the Danes have upped it today, which is good. This is my thing though, like what the eur we're all trying to do the like, yeah, he's wrong because of this, that, and the other thing, but like so are the European leaders so far, like some of them are a little further out there and like this is ridiculous. And then, you know, like Kier Starmer's out there being like, well, we don't want to we there's got to be some kind of a diplomatic solution to all this, right? Why don't they just put a bunch of tanks in Greenland and be like, "All right, go for it. You want to you want to start a war within NATO? Go for it, Trump. Trump Trump's not going to do that.

They don't have a lot of tanks. Whatever they have, what do they have from us?"

I think they're all kind of they've sort of internalized a certain lesson of how you deal with Trump as well. Like the this is like the Ruda lesson, which is you can disagree amicably, but if you start to do anything that challenges his ego, it gets worse. And they're seeing if there's a way that they can agree themselves out of a war. uh for the territory of Greenland. I I've like told this before, but I do remember hearing a kind of an a historian of Denmark and Greenland talking about how hard it is to um to sort of exist in Greenland, how unforgiving it is. And his joke was that if anyone ever tried to invade Greenland, uh Denmark would have no choice but to rescue them. So, I do think some of the the harsh nature of the terrain is is part of it.

Quite cold. see that NBC story too that Trump has been um he's starting to complain about Canada's vulnerability in the Arctic. The

Arctic the northern border of Canada. I saw that. No conversations yet about sending any troops there or taking over Canada. I mean, we did do the 50 51st state thing a while back, but he's he's getting annoyed. So, this is how it starts.

Can I go Can I go um full blue sky for a moment? Place I'm not on. If you were to write down the list of the things a president would do to destroy America's standing in the world and make us a pariah nation and kind of uh uh destroy our long-term prospects as a leading economy, is there anything that you'd be doing differently than what Trump is doing or is this just the full list of things you would do to hand the to hand the world order over to China and Russia

via a dispute over Greenland, which is the most absurd, funniest, and stupidest and thus typically American way to do it. um with our TV our TV host at the head of the government. So it is in in some ways fitting

and don't take John's word for it. Uh the the oligarch that you know the United States was negotiating with over the future of Gaza and Ukraine. I mean Demetri of Kurroll or whatever the hell his name is made exactly that joke on Twitter. He's mocking mocking us. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. The tariffs are also we haven't even talked about the tariffs like the because the the text kind of took over the tariff story today. Sorry, I got

you. Um, but like we're now we're doing we're going back into we're levying tariffs on ourselves again, right? There's a new study out 96% of the tariffs so far have been borne by Americans. Only 4% on foreign exporters. So now we're just charging Americans more uh for these uh these tariffs because of Greenland. And then if we end up buying Greenland as opposed to taking it by force, where's that money coming from? I know I know he'll probably say it's coming from the oil or the sale of the rare earth minerals, but that's just a lie. So obviously it's going to come from the Treasury. So that's going to be more money from us too. So that's great.

Well, also good way to good way to deal with costs. What is theility of these tariffs? Exactly. The emergency authority he's been abusing to put these tariffs in place. He's creating the emergency. He we he's he's the emergency Greenland. We're the emergency is we must take Greenland and we must have tariffs until we have Greenland. Besson was asked about this on television. He basically thought of Funford and had no defense for the claim that the emergency is we want Greenland. What the is he talking about? Somebody said the emergency was preventing an emergency.

Yes, that's right. The emergency is preventing an emergency. Well, by the time you guys listen to this, the the the Supreme Court could have uh struck down the tariffs, but they're also ready. The trade representative says he's ready with that with new tariffs that somehow are are going to be more legal than these. Um so, they're all going to Davos. They're all going to this it's all going down to Davos this week. Uh Trump's going there with the uh with the other European leaders. I just want to read you guys this is just sort of a a sign of the times right now. This is a headline from uh Politico. Uh a lead from Politico.

The fear had been that Davos might be slipping into irrelevance. No more. US President Donald Trump may be at odds with the rules-based consensus global leadership that World Economic Forum Stalwarts espouse, but they owe him thanks this time. A record number of world leaders are attending only because he is.

Are you kidding me? That is so stupid. Yeah. Yeah. That's what uh that's what Politico sent. that's there. But that's that's that's that's something that's happening there.

What does that even mean? Like no no no one world leader benefits from Davos being a place people want to go to.

The headline it's it's politico forecast which is a new newsletter that I have been sent non-consensually by by Politico and it is the headline is Trump makes Davos matter again.

This is what we're this is what's with that. I'm so discouraged. It is discouraging. Also, we have a bipartisan delegation that is like meeting with the Danes. And you got to think like what how impotent Congress is that like now we send BIP we send Kodell's abroad, bipartisan delegations to be like they're trying to reassure NATO and the European allies that we're not actually going to take Greenland by force. But they can't do that because they're not actually going to they're not actually going to do anything. We talked about how around 75% of Americans oppose acquiring Greenland. Over 90% oppose acquiring Greenland by force, including most Republicans, which is why more Republicans in Congress are breaking with Trump on this than almost any other issue. Though, you can already see some of them starting to get a bit more comfortable with Trump's imperialist ambitions. Here's Ted Cruz

over the weekend. I believe it is overwhelmingly in America's national interest to acquire Greenland. Some folks in in the press, they clutch their pearls and they say, "Well, what do you mean acquiring Greenland? How could that happen?" Look, the whole history of America has been a history of acquiring new lands and new territories.

Yeah, that's just that's just the way it is. We just acquire things. And um I just thought like we kind of we got to the Pacific Ocean.

Uh and yeah, some exceptions beyond that, but we felt like that's that's the meat of it. You know, that's you know, like there's going to be there's Alaska and there's Hawaii. And we've had some we had some, you know, a kind of a little empire going for a while. There's some territories you're like, "Oh, that's right. Guam." Huh. I don't remember what that was about. I think somebody did we go some blew up some nuclear bombs near there for a while when we were being the best country in the world. But but but we're good now. I thought I felt like we were kind of good.

The sun the sun must never set on the Mara Lago Empire. I thought we were going to do like tech stuff. That was going to be our new thing. Our empire was to be with tech stuff.

I thought what was uh what was particularly notable about uh Cruz's comments there is that um here he is in 2016 speaking to us from the future. I mean, we're liable to wake up one morning and Donald, if he were president, would have nuked Denmark. That's not the temperament of a leader to keep this country safe.

Nailed it. Nailed it. Wow. Ted, how did he know? Now he's all for Now he's like, "Let's do it. Lay off Heidi." That was when he was yelling about that.

How are you guys feeling about whether the uh the overwhelming resistance to Trump taking Greenland uh will stop him from doing it? Uh, look, I I do wonder if Ted Cruz has saw what happened to Bill Cassidy in Louisiana getting a Trump endorsed primary opponent and wondered if that could be me. But anyway, I I mean, I think that in terms of stopping Trump, I I fear that his preoccupation these days is more with legacy than any kind of political standing or um and I think he thinks that adding Greenland to his uh resume, territorial expansion could be like his historical legacy item. In theory, I guess Congress could pass legislation to prevent hostilities. There could be like uh some sort of war powers act. There could be uh you know barring funding for a Greenland operation. But I think you'd need a a veto proof majority. And then I think even if you got that Trump would just be like well I don't care because

under article two of the constitution I'm going to do whatever I want. So then you know you kind of get out like okay what comes next? It's like massive protests a general strike that shuts down the economy. Like I don't see Americans caring that much about Greenland or NATO. But then internationally, to your point, I mean, it's like Europe needs to work together and decide they care enough to respond. And that means either enormous tariffs on the on the US or the EU actually has a specific provision called the anti-coercion tool that is designed for this scenario. It's designed for us doing this or China doing something like this that could basically shut off access to the European market. It would create a trade war. It would further eviscerate NATO. It would uh make you question, you know, whether the US would back any of these countries if the Russians invaded them. Uh and all sorts

of other problems, but it's just, you know, no one has figured out how to respond effectively.

Yeah. I I interviewed uh Senator Ggo on Friday's show and he said he introduced a bipartisan resolution, a bipartisan legislation to to stop the Greenland thing. He thinks he's could get like a bunch of Republicans, but I don't like you said, I don't know if you're going to get 60. And um and then does he even pay attention? You know, I mean they Democrats could

some I just saw someone on Twitter be like they should shut down the government over Greenland. Yes, we can shut down the government of Greenland, ICE, healthcare. We could do it all again.

Well, we can only shut down parts of the government because of the you know, there'll be some

other spending bills that Democrats will have already approved by the time we get to that. But yeah, it's worth sort of taking a moment to say what should happen. And of course, what should happen is she he should be impeached, removed from office immediately. Yep.

Uh yeah, just one of many things on that list just this week. It's like, oh, the fact that it's probably, you're probably right that Congress can't by law stop the president from conducting a lawless invasion of Greenland does point to sort of a deeper set of issues that we're not willing to grapple with. The tariffs that he's applying and he's doing with uh uh authorities lent to him by Congress that they could take back at any moment, but they are choosing not to. So they are going to allow Americans to pay as you said 96% and that is you know whatever their claims are we are paying basically the entire cost of this tax there's that is the evidence that is from the Wall Street Journal that is the evidence it's not we are paying it so he that the Republicans in Congress are cool with imposing a massive tax on Americans because Trump wants Greenland a topic none of them even knew was going

to be a topic a year ago. I I also like there's a lot of people who are like tweeting that that national security strategy. They're like, "You don't see the word Greenland anywhere in this." And I'm like, "You got him."

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Contract driven guy. Consistency is really the uh the name of the game there.

Yeah. We were in the end end user license agreement phase. That'll do it. I did notice the S&P is like a half a percent off its all-time high. So, I think the business world assumes this is just another taco scenario and Trump will give [snorts] up on this. But, who knows?

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invites went out over the weekend to world leaders asking them to join Trump's Board of Peace, which um while originally discussed as an entity to help oversee the rebuilding of Gaza, no longer mentions Gaza in the draft charter that's been published and is now being talked about by the administration as an international peace building organization. Uh, among the leaders who scored an invite is international war criminal Vladimir Putin. No word on how many countries will pony up the $1 billion fee that Trump is charging to become a permanent member. You get the first three years free.

Mhm. It's a little like it's a Colombia. Sure. First three years free on the board, but then if you want a permanency, that's one bill.

And it's adsree. It is. And you get a NATO country if you do the full term. Yeah.

I have a few questions on this one. Um, what happened at the Gaza part? Uh, also is Trump trying to start his own UN here? Is that what's going on?

Well, if you're going to start a UN, you do need to put uh Vladimir Putin on the peace council. That is the sort of the UN vibe. It's the first time it made me think they were like the UN. I can't wait to see who's on his his human rights council. So, yeah, I'm I'm pretty psyched.

Yeah, this so like what he announced is I think equal parts confusing and stupid. So, I'll try to unpack it. I just on the Gaza piece, it's worth noting that there's a ceasefire in name only. There's like air strikes constantly. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed since the ceasefire was announced. Hamas is not disarmed. They have been attacking. Israel occupies half the Gaza Strip. So, it's just a mess. Um, so there's a bunch of things they announced. Uh, I'll try to unpackage quickly. So, the Times of Israel had the full text of the charter of the board of peace. As you noted, it does not mention Gaza. Um, it seems like the goal is to replace the United Nations, but without all that annoying input from the other 192 countries that are part of the UN. It's just like the US decides unless they're rich pay.

Well, the new answer is he says Trump is basically in charge. He gets to pick who's on the board. He gets to veto decisions even if they are approved by a majority of the board's members. It seems like the plan is for him to personally serve on the board as the chairman in perpetuity and then name his successor. This is not like a slot for the president. I'm pretty sure it's like a for him thing. Um, and in many ways like the billion dollar fee is like the least of the problems with this thing because there's also an executive board under the leader level board that is Jared Kushner, Rubio, Tony Blair, random business dudes like Mark Rowan from Apollo uh, global management. So, there's a big crony capitalism piece here. Um, but these are the people that are sort of like day-to-day running the things and then

and they're going to solve the Middle East first. [gasps] And then there's another thing called the Gaza Executive Board that runs reconstruction in Gaza, but the Israelis hate that because it has reps from Qatar and Turkey. Then there's another thing called the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza that's like Palestinian technocrats. It's supposed to be the Palestinian government. But just on the Board of Peace, like as you said, I'm the first to admit like the UN is a mess. It's been broken for decades.

Like, and the problem is, you know, the UN Security Council, like you get the US, Russia or China vetoing whatever goes through it that matters. But this just replaces it with Trump running the show. There's the absurdity of inviting the Russians as they're waging war with Ukraine. There's the absurdity of you doing this while we're threatening Greenland, which is why the French said no. I was told by someone the UK said no. So I I I just don't know what they're doing here. It's like a one pager to replace the UN.

It's the Trump calls it the greatest board ever. Greatest board ever. Yeah. Think you're going to score an invite?

Surf board. I don't know what the kind of liabilities are for being on that kind of a board. Like what are the fiduciary responsibilities? How does it meet? It's interesting to see

at least once a year. At least once a year. At least once a year. I did see that some of the European leaders, again, this is like this sort of the Greenland stance as well. They're like, "Well, this is obviously crazy, but we don't want to piss them off more." So, like, maybe do you have to say yes to the board?

Piss them off. You Jesus Christ. When are these people going to stand up and do something? Collective action, guys.

Look at Jerome Powell's video. Just do that, you know? Yeah. Why aren't more people being inspired by Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell?

You know what? You you the heroes come in the in the oddest oddest forms these days.

That's right. Um so if you can't afford Trump's billion-dollar board of peace fee, uh don't worry, you can still buy a pardon for a few million bucks. Um last week, Trump pardoned a Venezuelan banker charged with felony bribery after his daughter donated $2.5 million to Trump's super PAC. He pardoned another convicted fraudster for the second time uh after Trump commuted her sentence in 2021. She committed fraud again. Guess she learned her lesson. She was convicted again in 2024.

She did learn her lesson. I can get away with fraud and it's fine. And then Trump just pardoned her again. Uh and then because the president cares so much about drug trafficking, uh he commuted the sentence of a guy who was convicted of dealing methloving Republican congressman. So that's why that happened. Um feel like those those drug boats from Venezuela might have a better chance if they just carry some uh bunch of cash with them. Let the uh let all the the drones in the sky know like we have money for you, Mr. Trump. Take this.

Yeah, it's uh you know, I know the name Mark Rich because it was uh defining scandal 25 years ago. It's 25 years later. We know the name Mark Rich. Any one of these pardons is is certainly these sort of I donate your super PAC then get a pardon then get another commutation then another pardon. I mean these are on the level if not more I mean more clearly a quid proquo we'll forget these will move on in a couple days. Like that's how far we've gone and we focus on the Trump of it. What is what is making this possible? Senate Republicans are making this possible. It is it can look I it is not surprising I guess at this point that they really will look past virtually everything. But taken in totality uh they are responsible. They are the ones that are responsible for this because there's never going to be hearing about this.

There's never going to be an investigation of this. The Department of Justice is fully and completely captured. It does not investigate the administration. It only investigates the administration's adversary. So there's no hope there. Trump is being enabled by these people and the pardon power which uh you know it's sort of like um you get the responsibilities you can handle and we have now shown that this country cannot handle a pardon power. We got to knock that thing off the next time we can start talking about a constitutional amendment.

You know what that reminded me of too is have you seen these uh comments from Tom Tillis over the last week? So he's like, "This Greenland thing is crazy. What is he doing?" But he's still This guy is retiring.

Mhm. He's safe now. He doesn't He doesn't owe Trump anything. And he's out there like, you know, I don't think Trump wants to do this Greenland thing. I think it's his advisers and those advisers, whoever's advising him on Greenland is going to sully his legacy.

So dumb. It's just not the case. Like what are you saying not the case? This this like no one no one wants to look into this. No one wants to They just don't care.

Yeah. His adviser is like a sleep paralysis demon Roy Conn. How you going to how you going to get through to that guy? The the ghost the ghost of an 80s monster who visits him in the night. Yeah. I love it. I would add to your list the Supreme Court who basically give him just absolute immunity and the power to do these pardons there. I I was listening to a um an interview with Trump's former pardon attorney who was like kind of the first person fired for questioning this process because she thought maybe it was a bad idea to give Mel Gibson his gun license back uh because he's like a serial domestic abuser and they tend to shoot people. Um so that was a canary in the cold mine.

But yeah, the examples you read are just like so far beyond the pale it's hard to know what to do with them. Um it's pure bribery. There's all these Trump connected officials that have started a business around this. like they're getting fees of like up to a million dollars just to buy pardons. And and just on the specific drug specific pardons, we've talked about Juan Orlando Hernandez, the former president of Honduras, who got sentenced to 45 years for conspiring to traffic 400 tons of cocaine to the US. Then there was Rossch who founded the Silk Road, which is that online marketplace that prosecutors say facilitated roughly $1 billion in drug sales. He got a pardon. Uh he was also accused of hiring a hitman to kill five different people. M

five. Um and there's just so many examples like this there's the crypto CEOs who paid bribes for pardons, but most people will just never hear about it. There's never going to be a hearing on Capitol Hill about it.

Yeah. I mean, this is the the real the the people who are really at fault here are the founders because in fairness to the court, the constitution is pretty clear that the pardon power is basically just unlimited. And

yeah, it's a botch for sure. It's a botch. It's a botch. And if if we ever had the ability to um sort of pass another constitutional amendment, that would be right for that though, you know.

Well, I would say reform is a good issue for somebody. Yeah. But but it has to be an amendment.

In defense of the framers, I would say that there were a few guard rails that they probably would have thought would have kicked in before we got here. Yeah. Impeachment was supposed to be the punishment for abusing the pardon power, just like it's the punishment for all the things that Trump has done. And if Merrick Garland had been given a prescription for Viveance in 2021, maybe things could have moved a little faster and this guy could have been in jail by now. So there's a lot of things that happened that had a lot of things had to go wrong. Cascade of failures that he could have abused the pardon powder in this way.

Mitch McConnell. It's Mitch McConnell. Had the chance after January 6th. Could have done it. Didn't do it. Mitch Mitch's fault. All right, let's talk about the other place uh Trump is threatening with military action. Minneapolis. Multiple outlets reported over the weekend that the Pentagon had ordered about 1,500 active duty US Army paratroopers stationed in Alaska to prepare for possible deployment to Minnesota in the event that Trump invokes the insurrection act. The Department of Defense also alerted around 200 Texas National Guard troops about possible deployment to Minnesota.

Even though Governor Tim Walls has already mobilized the state's National Guard, over 3,000 armed federal agents from ICE and other agencies are still terrorizing Minneapolis. They are arresting US citizens and legal residents based on their accents or skin color or just cases of mistaken identity. They're assaulting unarmed peaceful residents. Some who are protesting, others who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Um, this is all despite a court ruling from a federal judge on Friday that prohibits ICE from using tear gas and other crowd dispersal tools against quote peaceful and unobstructive protesters and says they can't detain or arrest protesters who merely follow ICE at a safe distance. Governor Waltz and Minneapolis's mayor Jacob Fry have urged ICE to leave and asked protesters to remain peaceful. And for that, the Trump administration has also launched a criminal investigation into both men for

simply speaking. Christine Gnome, our wretched excuse for Homeland Security Secretary, was grilled on all of this by Margaret Brennan on CBS this weekend. Uh, here's all the lies she told. In Minneapolis, this family with six children with a one as young as 6 months old got kind of caught in the incident as they were driving to basketball practice. ICE released a canister of tear gas and the mother described giving her infant CPR. Uh, we're showing that video there. The family was caught up in that situation because of violent protesters that were impeding law enforcement operations. And

are your agents going to has asked him to sorry with the federal order on Friday to to not use chemical agents?

That federal order was um a little ridiculous because that federal judge came down and told us we couldn't do what we already aren't doing. Um we we are just chemical agents being used. We only use those chemical agents when there's violence happening.

What's the breakdown of the percentage of those who you have in custody who have actually committed a criminal offense versus just the civil infraction?

Every single individual has committed a crime. But 70% of them have committed or have charges against them on violent crimes.

It's not 70%. Yes, it is. It absolutely is. 70% of everyone who has detained changing your percentage. You pick and choose what numbers you think work.

Okay. Well, uh, our reporting is that 47% based on your AY's own numbers, 47% have criminal convictions against them. But let's talk about the other numbers.

Wrong again. Absolutely. We'll get you the correct numbers so you can use them in the future.

Well, that's from your agency. Just they all lie. The whole administration lies. Department of Homeland Security lies. They don't even try to come up with good lies anymore or even believable lies or anything like that. They just just casually say whatever comes to mind.

Yeah. One thing also I just is whatever the statistics, there's a lot of stuff that's not being measured right now that's they're grabbing people and not technically arresting them and then letting them go. They're keeping them for hours, maybe longer. We don't really know. Uh and we don't are those things being documented? Are they being written down anywhere? They're not technically arrested because these are people that can't be arrested. They haven't committed any crimes, but they're being harassed and grabbed and intimidated and then thrown out of a car uh a few hours later. Is that in their statistics for who they're picking up? Or no, I assume not because I don't know that anyone's writing it down, and the people doing the grabbing are wearing masks and accountable to no one.

Yeah, it's just it's total impunity. I mean, she's she will lie about anything. She will deny reality. She will blame anyone but Trump. They don't care if a mom gets shot in the face three times. They don't care if a baby gets teargassed. The Chrissy Gnome doesn't care about disgracing herself and humiliating herself on national television. And it's like audience of one And you know, there's just there's good stats on this. I mean, she's just wrong and lying. Like Ms. Now had a story uh where they said of those arrested by ICE and held in ICE detention, the majority have no criminal convictions, more have no criminal convictions at all than have convictions or pending charges. 92% of increases in ICE arrests are people with no criminal history. And you know, the budget for ICE went from 10 billion to 30 billion.

We're just wasting so much money on this. I got I was so angry about this over the weekend. I sort of went deep on the story of the family that was driving back from the basketball game because you're like, "Okay, how did this happen?" They're driving back from the basketball game. They run into a bunch of ICE agents and they blocking their path. They immediately start screaming profanities at them. They've got an 11-year-old 7-year-old four-year-old twins, 2-year-old, and the six-month old baby in a van and the two parents. And they start screaming at them. They're like, "Get out of here. Get out."

They're like, "Well, get out of our way. We'll get out of here." you know, and they're worried because the parents later said they're worried about Renee. Good. What happened to her? So, they they're like freaking out and then they feel an explosion under the car. The car lifts up off the ground. Airbags release. The the doors all lock. So, now they're trapped in the car and the car is filling up with gas and all the kids are getting teargassed. Neighbors run out of the houses. They pull the kids out of the car of the van. And the last one they pull out of the van is the infant who's not breathing and and not conscious. And the mother starts doing CPR on the baby, but like can't really breathe herself. And so she was like having trouble. Finally, she begs the uh the ICE agents to let ICE agents are standing around. Don't do anything.

Begging the ICE agents to let the uh the EMTs through. They won't. Finally, a Minneapolis police officer gets through the ICE agents, gets the baby, brings them to the hospital, and then the baby starts breathing again. And this family is like completely traumatized. that the first tweet from the Department of Homeland Security is uh these parents uh are violent agitators who should not have brought their children to a protest. Then they delete it because they're liars. Trisha Mclofflin's a liar. Disgusting.

She's the worst. The worst. And so then they start now their new line is, well, it's the protesters fault because since there were protesters nearby, the protesters forced the ICE agents to explode a canister under a car that they knew was carrying six children because they had been talking to the people. Dude, this would turn me into John Wick. I mean, that is like a radicalizing.

But this is what And it's like you whatever. Like you're just like, is there no apology coming to this? Like no apology, no like we will try to do better. Nothing. Like Christine just stands there, sits there, looks at Margaret Brennan, and has like just no emotion about it whatsoever. Like no empathy for this family. She's a grandmother. She's a mother. Nothing.

How did that first post go up, right? How does the first post go? Did they had no information up? Did they

Cuz Trisha just lies. She has no information. She lies all the time. And then they did feel compelled to delete it, right? Which is something of a capitulation that they've not done in a lot of other cases. So it must be

probably why they don't do it, right? Well, it was so obvious. This there was some reason about this case that was so obvious that they didn't feel like they could slime this family. Uh but the fact that their first instinct was to post just complete falsehoods and the fact that here they're at least acknowledging they're doing the courtesy of this family of not blaming them for their own for the for ICE attacking them. But they are just blaming the random protesters.

If you read the the ruling is wild too from the federal judge because there's all these instances. Everyone should go read the ruling. There's also just a New York Times story about it if you don't want to read the whole ruling. But like there's um they go through and they have what DHS has claimed happened and then they have what videos evidence witnesses actually show and what the judge ruled on. Like one guy that they tackled to the ground and locked up and shackled um American citizen they were like oh he was leading a protest and then the video show that he was actually pushing protesters away from the ICE agents and holding up a hand for everyone to get back. Just

it's just like lie after lie after lie after lie. And it's in that ruling too where the judge found that that these officers are deploying tear gas and kind of turning on these protesters not because of any inciting incidents or the protesters but they just hit their limit and get a bit annoyed. Yeah.

And they just sort of lash out. And the Wall Street Journal reported that um so they when they make an arrest and then they let the person go because they're a citizen or because they got the wrong person, that arrest still counts towards their 3,000 arrest quota. Interesting.

And so they are now incentivized to arrest people who they don't even uh they're not even going to charge with anything because because it helps make Steven Miller's quota.

That's a good system. So that's what's happening there. Um, it does seem like Trump is just itching to invoke the Insurrection Act, though it's unclear what the paratroopers from the 11th Airborne Division will do in Minneapolis that the guard couldn't other than freak everyone the out.

I was surprised to see the paratroopers. Is that just the unit or are they actually planning to have send these guys out of a plane into Minneapolis? I I can see Trump liking the drama of that. I do think it would be a pretty powerful message for to to to why this is terrible. I also don't want it to happen. So, a little bit of attention there.

I think it's probably just the unit. But yeah, they're probably highly trained. It's probably just the unit.

I think of those people, too. These guys are like men and women are like in Alaska waiting for like something real to happen. It's like, oh, you might have to go to Minnesota, by the way, to potentially fight like your fellow citizens.

And they're like, oh, god damn it. We're in Alaska. Why the one of the coldest ones? Can't they do a lawless crackdown in Miami or something? I want to go to the LA I want to go to the LA insurrection act. I don't want to go to the Minneapolis one.

That sucks. What do you guys say about the criminal investigation into uh into Wells and Fry? It It seems like complete that we get laughed out of court, but it's still like crazy. Todd Blanch, the deputy attorney general, posted uh earlier, like I think on Wednesday or Thursday, Minnesota insurrection is a direct result of a failed governor and a terrible mayor encouraging violence against law enforcement. It's disgusting. Walton Fry, I'm focused on stopping you from your terrorism by whatever means necessary. This is not a threat, it's a promise. Which is I know we're now a nerd to it. That's a shocking thing to hear from the Department of Justice. the deputy attorney general is that's not a threat, it's a promise. You're terrorists. That is shocking. [snorts] But of course, it's serious. Of course, it's serious.

Yeah. I think it's a big deal for them personally, too. I I mean, yeah, it's obviously designed to threaten them. It's obviously like ridiculous. But they're trying to intimidate them. And we've seen DOJ do this before. I mean, L Monica Maccgyver, member of Congress, is being prosecuted for trying to go to an ICE facility in her home state. um and the FBI is using its records to go after Trump's enemies from impeachment or the January 6th, etc. So, it's it's just a continuation of that process. And you know, again, the hypocrisy makes you want to tear your hair out, right? Like Trump claims that this, you know, the governor and the mayor of a state's uh their comments, their words are criminal interference in law enforcement, but sicking a mob on the capital on January 6th is just, you know, giving giving a speech. Like, it makes you want to lose your mind, but that's part of the part of the plan, I guess.

Also, the two of them said, "I should get out." They they they encourage people to to film uh things that they're seeing, which is entirely legal. No matter what they say, you can go film ICE anywhere you want. It is not impeding a investigation. If you are staying away from them and not causing them trouble and staying back, you can film them anywhere you want. Um and and then they're calling for they've called for peace. They've called for like peaceful protests over and over again. So, it's like what? It's protected speech. What are you talking about? Violence. It's crazy. when I see Gnome and I see Pam Bondi and like you know these were in some sense in the previous era they were right-wing and whatever but they were normal ostensibly normal politicians but there is Pam Bondi presiding over the complete and total political takeover of the Department of Justice in a way that has just not been the case in ever uh and

doing it so kind of brazenly there's not even a there's not even a kind of like tilt towards what it should look like or claiming it's independent. They are just going after their enemies.

But that Wall Street Journal story from last week tells you why. Because he's Trump's going around calling Pam Bondi uh weak and ineffective

and because you and you hear the the complaints from the far right and they're like, "Oh, she's she's too much of a lawyer. She's too much too much buy the book stuff. She's not breaking the you know, she's" and so what is so she's faced with that, right? She doesn't want to get fired because she doesn't want to get excommunicated from MAGA World because also she could get um it's not like she just loses her professional career, but who knows if Trump comes after her, right? So, it's like you don't want to piss Trump off. You want to make sure you get your pardon when he leaves so you're not prosecuted. So, the more that like the every incentive that all of these people have is to do literally anything Steven Miller and Donald Trump tell them to do.

Right. But because it's the only way you can protect yourself at some point, not not like not like excusing them, but like that is the whole system. That is the incentive structure. It's not It's not to be like I'm going to stand up and do the right thing,

right? In a godless world. That's But that but like I really like we're the liberals are the godless. I thought we were the ones that didn't believe. Aren't you guys all keeping a le What about the ledger? Aren't I thought you had the ledger? I like Is there no ledger? Are you not worried at all? None of these people seem worried about the book. No,

the big book. Well, they they are worried about protesters interrupting a a church, which is what they're all up in arms about today.

Yeah. Did John Lemons turn in the barrel? Did you read the story about uh there's a bunch of federal prosecutors at the White House for like some photo op, and Trump's like, "Oh, yeah, bringing in pretty." And then he just berates them all for not going enemies fast enough. Like Tulsi Gabbard's a new example, right? Like she dares to say what the intelligence says about the Iran strikes. Trump cuts her legs out from under her. Fast forward six months, she's putting out tweets of herself doing yoga on the beach the day before the Venezuela operation just like a lot of big talk that she was going to get uh get Barack Obama, right?

Barack Obama was supposed to show up in handcuffs and that never happened. So, yeah. And now she's quiet quitting.

Uh, one story that drew a lot of attention over the weekend was about Jake Lang, a Nazi saluting influencer and pardon January 6, uh, who tried to lead an anti-Somali pro rally in Minneapolis on Saturday. Great timing. uh called the March Against Minnesota Fraud. Uh Lang was chased off somewhat violently by a much larger counter demonstration. Uh Lang and allies posted about his injuries, but it's hard to know what's exaggerated and what isn't. Um he was also there, by the way. He told everyone he was going there to burn a Quran on the steps of city hall.

That always ends well. Yeah. So, what' you guys make of that story? And this guy's a scary Nazi lunatic who's clearly more emboldened than ever. And it makes you wonder about what these freaks will do on, you know, January 6 2.0 whenever that comes. There's also um there's a a DC based organization called Crew that put together a report about all the pardoned January 6 people. Uh out of the 1600, 33 insurrectionists have been rearrested, charged or sentenced for other crimes. Uh those charges include aggravated kidnapping, child molestation, possession of child pornography, sexual assault. Now, a lot of these incidents are from before the pardons, but either way, like this is Trump pardoned all these dangerous criminals, put them back on the street, and now shocker, they're doing dangerous scary stuff. Like of course this what's going to happen.

Well, it's also it's like none of this is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy requires you to have like certain principles. Start with universal principles to begin with. It's just if stuff's on if people are on my side, good. Commit crimes. Do whatever you want. If you're not on my side, you're

Yeah, we all and if I have the power, I I can use it to protect my people and to screw your people. That's it. Not hypocrisy. We lamented about the the hypocrisy for a long time. But hypocrisy is in some sense kind of a pretend you you're at least acknowledging what the values should be. Once you leave that behind, you're like, "God, I miss hypocrisy." At least we all had a pretend sense of morals. You just didn't live up to them at all. You know, when I saw I saw the videos of this guy kind of cornered on a window ledge and actually a a protester kind of holding other people back. And I actually thought about the story you mentioned about the guy that got grabbed by ICE because he was trying to stop things from escalating. And this is true of Trump. It's true of any kind of chaotic and violent circumstance.

It's true of what happened with this with ICE shooting Renee Good, which is as situations become more chaotic and more dangerous. As people like this travel to Minnesota to rile people up, the all of a sudden what we're talking about as a country, what matters is no longer in our collective hands. It's in the luck and happen stance and mindset of a few random people and how they interact in a street confrontation and and and that is incredibly dangerous. If you look back at countries that have that have gone down this road and to much darker places from it, street confrontations, they are they accelerate because the next time more of those guys show up and this time they're armed and the other side feels like they've got to show up and and protect themselves. And by the way, like I have been like

so moved by the people in Minnesota just showing up every day and just being out there and standing up for that community and being willing to put their bodies there. That is scary and it is getting scarier and good that they're doing that and good that they're doing but they're angry and it's tense and they're right to feel that. And then these Proud Boys show up, these Nazis show up. It is a te it is a it even the most committed people in a big group these guys are are are are kind of pushing for that to turn into something ugly and more dangerous and more violent and they have been so peaceful and trying to trying so most of them obviously have been trying to kind of just protect people and follow cars with whistles and trying to do what they can to send the message that Minnesota isn't for that and there are going to be people that try to test that and it's unfortunately it's not up to the vast

majority of people in Minneapolis to collectively say they want peace because when you end up in these small moments all of a sudden uh uh things can escalate because of a one or two or three or five actors and that is what makes it so dangerous

which like law of averages of course there's going to be those actors of course and like and and the right-wing media influencer infrastructure is just waiting for the content right and they got they got some of it with Jake Lang right um and then they got some of it with protesters who stupidly walked into a church during during you know people worshiping in church right and so this is literally of all the bad news that's out there for the Trump administration all they're talking about today is this church thing and now they're going to you know Don Lemon went into the church with the protesters and started interviewing them also interviewed the people who worked at the church the the church officials and stuff like that so he's just covering it but now Don Lemon they want to they want to arrest Don Lemon because of this but this is this is it this is all they can talk about because they want to be like see the

left is exactly what they said we are and it's like no you you know what when you when you do this kind If you put this kind of pressure on people, you are Yes, you are going to have some people like I'm I'm shocked that there hasn't been more.

And and the other part of this too is this is where like oh you think like you know Trump is turning us into a training us to be kind of a more callous and cruel society. That's what he wants us to be. But this is how violence begets violence. Because when the federal government is a group of mass thugs, you're standing on the street trying to protect people and like it is no longer about winning with reason and argument. It's you're just trying to literally put yourself in the way because all that because because that the bodies matter because the number of people starts to matter. It's all part of what makes this so dangerous. Did you see that the the guy that actually saved Jake Lang from the crowd and pulled him away was a black guy and he was interviewed later and he was like, you know, he's like, "We can't uh he's like, my thing is showing love regardless of what someone else did to you. We can't

we can't treat hate with hate, you know, and it's just like, wow, that is a like having that kind of attitude. That is that's tough." But you're like, "Not everyone has that."

No. And and by the way, they're being trained not to, right? you you that that a peaceful movement right now is being peaceful despite every message coming from the president and good for them because that's what we need to do that's what we should do that's how we'll prevail that's how we can because you will you lose in a fight to outviolent f out violence fascists you will not win it is but man

even on the right Trump is contradicting like Erica Kirk was like I forgive Charlie's assassin was like I don't I hate my enemies like that is the that's coming from the white house

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Yeah. Commitment free subscription starts as low as $11 per meal. Skip deliveries. Pause or cancel anytime. Taste comfort and craftsmanship in every bite from the award-winning chefs from behind Cook Unity. Go to cookunity.com/crooked or enter code crooked before checkout to get 50% off your first order. 50% off your first order by using codec crooked or going to cook.com/crooked. So, Axi has just reported that Trump's team saw some some bad private Republican polling on on his immigration policies and the ICE raids and it's causing some of his advisers to start quietly talking about quote recalibrating their approach. Uh, a Trump adviser told Axios he wants mass deportations. What he doesn't want is what people are seeing. it looks bad.

So, he's expressed some discomfort in that. Um, he also just posted uh something related to this. He said there's too much media attention on ICE right now. Um, what do you guys think? Is that is there a possibility they back off because of political pressure here that he he doesn't like how it looks? I I could imagine a situation where he's half paying attention because he is far more focused on foreign bribes and going to the Miami football game tonight and all the he does and wanting the Nobel Peace Prize and he kind of outsourced his policy to Steven Miller and then he wakes up and he reads the paper uh or he gets a call from a rich donor and he's like, "Hey, Stephen, I don't like this. Reign it in." I just I don't imagine him ever wanting to be perceived as caving in any way, right,

in Minnesota or to the left because he is like a strong weak like binary viewer of politics. I think that's probably true. What do you think?

I have no idea. I I really don't. I you know, all of this the the sort of the the enjoyment of the cruelty, the fact that Steven Miller has the reigns, uh the fact that he can't capitulate. I agree agree with that. The fact that his news his personal news environment is so up. Like I don't really know what he's seeing. So I I genuinely don't know. I I can see I can see a world in which he does not do like this winds down in some way and it doesn't go on to the next city in the same way. But do I think there's going to be some

great turn that we're all going to know about? Like he could there's a lot of things he could do right now to turn down the temperature. He could tell ICE that they all have to take their masks off.

Oh yeah, he could do a lot. All it tells me is that the uh people making noise about this, sharing stories, filming this, sharing it like it does, it does make a difference because they will they are going to feel the pressure and they are seeing it in the polling and again when you talk to people in focus groups and and you ask them like this is the first thing that comes up now, right? like it is people are worried about the cost of stuff and they are mad about the ice the ice rates because they are seeing it everywhere and it's covered on Tik Tok it's covered on local news it's covered everywhere people are getting their information these days

um now what you're right like whether whether that changes the behavior who knows but I do think it's it's putting some pressure on them

yeah I also like we were talking about it before but like man these guys are they signed up for an idea of what this was going to be like and now they're in these situations and all the anger and the kind of kind of uh kind of twitchy reactions. There's just this look of like this has got to be a brutal thing to be dealing with. And like they put what 3,000 people in Minnesota. That's a huge share of their force. It's crazy, right? Like and that is that is these guys like there's all kinds of stories of morale being low. They have to seek volunteers to do this kind of Like they're going to do a lot of bluster.

But even with this new giant ice like this is still America. is a big rebellious ungovernable place and they just don't they like

proven that now. Yeah. Yeah. And like what are they going to continue this that we send the put these guys in the next best western.

Uh speaking of polling, we're getting quite a bit right now since it's the one-year anniversary of Trump taking office. The president's approval is stuck in the low 40s, much worse than Obama's or Bush's at this stage in their second terms. Um and he's also near record lows for his handling of the economy and now immigration. Um, this is unsurprisingly dragging down his party's midterm chances. Democrats have an average four to five point lead on the generic ballot. Though CNN found that Democrats hold a whopping 16point lead among those who say they're deeply motivated to vote. So that is something to keep an eye on. We've seen that in a few polls now. The Wall Street Journal poll shows a similar four-point Democratic lead on the generic ballot despite voters saying that they trust Republicans more on immigration by 11 points and the economy and inflation by six points. Um though they say they

trust Dems more on healthcare by 15 points and by three points on looking out for the middle class and caring about people like you. Um anything else that's jumped out at you guys in the recent polling and is anything changing how you feel about the midterms?

My general response to these polls is that they are bad for Trump and bad for Democrats. That's that was sort of my takeaway from looking at them and and you can try to blur your eyes and find the positive in them, but the fact that even facing all of this, there's like a four-point lead in the Wall Street Journal p poll for Democrats and the uh 58% of voters have an unfavorable view of the party, which is roughly the same disapproval that Trump has, uh is pretty bleak because this poll has people saying by huge numbers that Trump is going too far on deporting legal immigrants, on expanding the pardon power, on deploying ICE, on threatening action against far government. like this is a like the country is taking this in and and they don't like it, but they just don't see us as a viable alternative. That may mean we can overcome it, but if we win, it will be despite what the Democratic party is uh

to the American people and not because of it. Yeah, that my my take away is similar. It's like this is a big uh splash of cold water on the face to every Democrat who thinks we're just going to romp the midterms and maybe we will do well. Maybe we're just, you know, it's just a turnout thing and more Dems turn out midterms. But, you know, border security, Republicans have a 28 point advantage. The economy is six like you said. inflation, rising prices, they have a six-point advantage. Like, this is very bad. And what it says is the Democratic Party's brand problem is just as big as it ever was, even in the face of a wildly unpopular president doing insane things. And we need to figure out a way to fix it and like talk about who we are, what we stand for, sell people on a newer, different version of the Democratic party than the one they currently hate, just a little less than they hate Trump. I have a I have a

slightly different view which I don't necessarily think is rosier because I I I I think that the image of the Democratic party is as bad as these polls suggest. I also think that a lot of it's coming from Democrats. A lot of those numbers are coming from Democrats who don't like the party who are going to vote for Democrats no matter what and will and many of them will crawl over glass to vote for Democrats in the midterms even though they're not happy with the party. But I think that the Trump numbers versus sort of the Republican party numbers, it it it's leading me to think that this, as most midterms are, it really is going to be a referendum. Like, do you like what's happening with Trump or not? And do you like the candidate, the Democratic, you might hate the party in Washington. You might be really sick of them. Do you like the candidate who is in the ads in your House district or your Senate

district that you're seeing right now? And does that does that candidate effectively tie the Republican to Donald Trump? And I know certainly when we head to 27 and 28, it is like we need a positive case. We need to talk about what we're for and we should Democratic candidates should absolutely do that in the midterms. But I think at the end of the day, the choice that voters are going to make are like Trump, thumbs up, thumbs down, how am I gonna vote?

Yeah. The other the other part of it to your point is in previous eras the president would kind of give tacet permission to his party uh uh candidates like if you need to run against me that's that's fine you know run against me a little bit but not this guy that's not that's inconsist well I do think part of this right like I look I I don't want to go back to a pretty empty well but the like part of the democratic brand problem is you have you know Joe Biden is our is our candidate he is defined by wanting to defeat and remove Trump in his first uh run and then incomprehensible in his second. Kamla comes in and I do think is a cautionary tale for what happens when you try to run without a worldview and every question becomes a hard question.

Right now we're having this sort of kind of it's mostly like a super kind of I think highly engaged debate about whether or not Democrats should be for abolishing ICE. But it is something that that the right-wing is obviously picking up pick up picking up on because they like this kind of dissension. And there I think there's reasons to say it is kind of unhelpful to beating to debating whether or not we should abolish ICE when we would have to go on a world historic winning streak for several years for that to be even on the table.

But if you think that debate is unhelpful, I think it's worth thinking about what is the quiet around the question about whether or not to abolish ICE. And the quiet around the question is what do Democrats stand for on immigration? What should immigration enforcement look like? What kind of uh uh uh like legal immigration order combined with a rigorous but humane enforcement order are you in favor of? I have no idea what Democrats believe. Not even on the technical policy, but like on a philosophical matter, like what the like core Democratic vision is for the future and across virtually every issue. That is just like white space. And you're right, we may not need it for the midterms, but when people start talking about who the leaders of the future of the party are going to be, that is the space. Well, and also no time like the president to start putting it out there.

Of course. Of course. Um, we haven't had a chance yet to talk about Mary Pollah entering the Senate race in Alaska, which now gives Democrats a real, if quite narrow path to the majority, uh, if she can pull out a win. And we can also flip Maine, North Carolina, and either Ohio, Iowa, or Texas. Thoughts?

I hope we do. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, you know, Iowa got open Senate primary. There's like three or four contested house races, a really strong uh governor candidate and Rob Sand, so there's a good shot there. You know, in Ohio, like look, Ohio's tough, but shared Brown gives us the best chance we've got in Ohio. I think in Texas, we have a Democratic primary, but you know, Cornin is not the most popular um you know, senator. So, it's tough. It's tough. We should try.

It depends. Like, you look at these polling, you say, well, what has to happen for us to win all these races? They all have to run really great campaigns and there has to be a real wave and momentum. And if you look at these polling, you can actually tell yourself a story that we're heading towards that possibility and you can also say we're not heading right like the polling gives you both options. So we just I just don't think we know.

So Madagasc's always going to like everyone's like oh it's a tough Senate map. But it's always a tough Senate map there. There is there are no more easy Senate maps. uh if you start looking down the road at 28 and the rest.

And so he sort of just looked at um the congressional races special elections from 25 and the overperformance. So the average of the generic ballot polling for all of these was plus4 which is about where we're sitting right now. The results were um in Tennessee um it was a a sevenpoint overperformance on Kla Harris, nine in Arizona, eight in Virginia, 11 and eight in those two Florida specials. So, um, now you know you're going to get a big larger turnout in the midterms, right? So, that makes it slightly harder. Though the turnout in Tennessee in that race was like midterm level turnout, it was actually the same as the midterm. So, you get that kind of turn. So, it was a pretty, you know, overperformance by seven in a in a place where both parties spent a ton of money and there was like midterm turnout is like a pretty good indicator.

And then when you look at the Senate races that we need to win, so Harris loses Ohio by 5.7, Iowa by 6.7, Alaska 6.8, Texas 6.9. So like it's right on the it's right there. Like it it is possible. And if you get the kind of overperformance that you had in 25 and some of these Senate races and you have good candidates in these races, then it is possible. It is possible. And also like Democrats need to make it possible. You just we just can't I would just say like the fact that it is easier for us to imagine America as a permanent autocracy than it is to imagine Democrats having a 60 seat majority in the Senate tells you that there's something

What are you talking about? I'm talking about 51. Well, but I'm just but like to to an to a to to a to a majority that we had when we were in politics, which we were we had a 60 seat majority in the Senate not that long ago. Now it is less conceivable than total destruction of democracy.

It's like guess what? Iowa, Ohio, Texas. You can't look at those three states and be like, "Well, all of them are really tough." One of them has to be not tough. One of them and particularly Texas if we're going to uh win presidential races again in the electoral college, you know, and and same thing with Alaska, right? Like we're we're close in that state.

Yeah. You might say that, you know, Democrats need to be able to win the country, you know, and sort of and in all in various parts of it that we currently are not competing.

That's why I'm kind of beating the Iowa drama. Obviously, Rob Sand is a friend. I really like him. But also like there's so much bang for your buck there. Like Texas is so expensive, but in Iowa there's governor's race. There's several House seats we could pick up. There's a, you know, Senate seat. Like, we got to invest there early.

Yeah. Iowa's like the short-term we have to do it. Texas is the the not even long-term, medium-term, we have to do it. Also, she won she lost Florida by six points and I know like we I just went through all of those margins. Like Camel Harris lost Florida by six points and the fact that we just like now don't run any we like don't pay attention to it is probably not um probably not doable for the long term.

There's at least one more vote for a Democrat if my dad wants to come to my wedding. There you go.

Um, so something to think about. So, we talked about 2026. One piece of 2028 news we do want to touch on before we get to Tommy's interview with Jason Zenerly. Uh, Josh Shapiro's got a new book coming out this week, and the newsiest parts are starting to leak. They include the news that Shapiro did explore launching a presidential bid right after Joe Biden dropped out, but it was quickly shut down by his wife. I guess she was in a a Canadian wall. She said, "I'm in a Canadian Walmart right now. I don't think we're ready."

Which is funny. Yeah. Not a fair um not a bad point. Um and there's also news that Trump uh cautioned him against running for president given how dangerous the office is. Uh this was after his home was attacked in an anti-semitic attack. He also has an in-depth accounting of Kla Harris's VP vetting process. Um which Shapiro apparently found to be quite contentious. Uh he writes that the vetting team asked him at one point if he had ever quote communicated with an undercover agent of Israel or if he ever was himself an agent for Israel. Um, that news comes after Harris wrote in 107 days that Shapiro was presumptive about being selected as the vice presidential nominee, saying that he wanted to quote be in the room for every decision and asked if the Smithsonian would lend Pennsylvania art to display in the vice president's residence.

Shapiro has basically denied that account, calling it Um, no love lost between these two, huh? Yeah, it's a little surprising that they're airing it out like this. I I mean, maybe it was unintention. Maybe like reporters found the book and they just someone picked up on this so the rest focused on it. But it I don't think it makes anyone look great here.

I love it. Yeah, you like it. I mean, look, we want them to be more honest, so let rip, I guess.

Yeah. When Seven Days first came out, Tim Alberta asked Josh Shapiro about it. It's seemingly in real time. And Josh Shapiro goes like like that's a blatant lie. And then he curses about, "Oh, he's talking out of her ass. Talking out of her ass." Or something to that extent. And then he kind of catches himself and he's like, "I shouldn't have said it that way." You know, and it's like, why, man? Let it rip. You If you think it's a blatant lie, say it's a blatant lie. Think she's talking out of her ass. Say she's talking out of her ass. We need to know if Josh Shapiro is in MSAD or not. It's a tough campaign. She wanted Pete Buddha Judge, but he's gay, but not because she doesn't think the country's ready for a gay guy, but the country's not ready for a gay guy. But that's not what she thinks. So that's why she doesn't choose Pete. Now she's got Josh.

He's the country ready for a MSAD agent. Yeah, he is in MSAD, right? We all know that because he's in it. And so she's got to get to the bottom of that. There's only 107 days.

The the direct quote was, "That's complete and utter bullshit." He told Tim Alberta. This is Josh Spiro. I can tell you that her accounts are just blatant lies. So yeah, that was a it was a it was an honest immediate reaction that was quite strong.

What do we think about the vetting thing in the Yeah. So look, let me just say I get how fraught this question is, how it must have felt for Shapiro in the moment, how offensive it could feel after dealing with like years of anti-semitism, your house being attacked, etc. I think this does come largely from a misunderstanding about the standard vetting process. Like the question uh are you a double agent for the Israeli government? Have you ever talked with a double, you know, an agent of the Israeli government? Sure, it seems ridiculous, but that is um like kind of standard. Like the SF86 we got all

the standard vetting form for national security asked, quote, "Have you ever been a member of an organization dedicated to terrorism or advocated for force violence to overthrow the US government?" The idea is not for you to admit it. this isn't a few good men. It is to get you on the record in case they find something later and then can can show that you lied. And we know now that Tim Walls was asked a similar question about China. Um because they had both traveled there extensive like Tim Walls had traveled to China extensively.

Shapiro had lived in Israel during high school. He once identified himself as a volunteer for the IDF and then after college he spent six months working for the Israeli embassy uh in DC. If I had done those things I would have gotten asked about them extensively on my security clearance and my background check. And you better believe that the vice president of the United States potentially is going to get asked about it too.

Yeah. You get you get asked about everywhere you've traveled in the last decade like for outside the United States in detail and then the FBI will come back at certain places that you travel and be like what happened when you were there and who did you talk to when you were like this this happens when you're getting a security clear. Obviously, this was a political vetting more than anything else. Yeah.

And Gaza was a very hot button issue at the time and it obviously rubbed in the wrong way and there were political considerations, but it was just like like he just takes such umbrage at it. Like he says, "It nagged at me that their questions weren't really about substance." He wrote rather they were questioning my ideology, my approach, and my worldview.

Stuck out to substance. Is that the whole point of the interview? I thought it was a strange sentence, too. That is it is substance. That's the good stuff. I I'm interested to see how that's in how what context that's in in the book because it was just like in the Atlantic piece, but I was like that is a weird I don't understand that. Of course, it should be about your ideology, your approach, and your worldview for vice president.

I thought it was strange when the person doing the vetting of Shapiro kind of like pushed some ham towards him

and then just said like, "What are you going to do with that ham? You going to eat it? Do you love his country or not? Eat the ham. Eat the ham, Josh. Eat the ham, you MSAD agent." No, of course you can't be Kamala's running mate. Of course not. You won't you won't eat this ham. Uh I love the fight. I'm so into it.

But I think this started in fairness with like Kla Harris in 107 days taking a shot at Newsome and then taking a shot at Shapiro

for no real reason. But you know what? Good for her, too. Honestly, more more totally fine. But like that's this is what happens.

Sure. So great. Well, also I do think I will say the fact that in 107 days it's like basically like has this basically insinuates that he was like measuring the drapes and decorating it. I do like Josh Shapiro being like, "What the is that? That's bullshit." I kind of like it does sound like small talk being turned into something.

Yeah. Because like like okay, if I was going to move into a naval observatory and I was making small talk about I'd be like, "I don't have that much stuff. What do you put in the thing? Do you get it from a museum?" Like small talk.

I think you'd have to be a psychopath to be like, "Hey, in case she picks me after this interview that's maybe the most important of my life. What do we think about the art?"

But he he also says in one of the articles, "I was surprised by how much she seemed to dislike the role of vice president." And I was like, "Really? Have you spoken to a vice president before?" Cuz they all seem to feel this way. He also seemed offended that uh Dana Reis, the person doing the vetting, sort of flagged how expensive the job can be, like the price of entertaining. You have to pay for some of it yourself. Clothes for the first lady, hair and makeup for the first lady. She noted that they didn't have a lot of money.

That seems like actually a really good thing to flag for someone before they get a job. It's like, "Hey, you're going to go into debt if you take this job." That is reasonable and relevant. I guess I what I well his the way he takes that in the book is that that basically like now they feel like oh now we're down the road with Josh Shapiro we we don't want the political problem of not choosing him so like you don't really want this job you know that's what he's that's like in the

but that's not Dana Remis' job to relay that so weird to kind of be doing budgeting for him in the moment. I don't know. I found the whole I found the whole thing strange.

Aren't they all relieved that no one had to test it out? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um weren't they friends before this? They have a pre-existing relationship that makes all this so

they've known each other for 20 years. That was the whole thing. That's the thing. And like I think they both met when they were in the MSAD.

Uh I love this and I just want to say I hope more politicians do the real beef airing out in the books. It is better. It is more fun than the kind of broomemides and the after after overt we talked about our children and realized that uh we had a lot of the same values but this wasn't the right moment for us. Like I am so much happier with this and even if this new segment is annoying.

If only Pete and Amy had aired out their dirty laundry before the primary in 2020.

Yeah. You want to see you want to see violence in the streets of Minnesota? Let's get that one going. I'm excited. I'm excited about that. Let's go enough. Is the Is the kind of political version of our disagreements working out for us as we debate whether or not we can ever win in Ohio again? [snorts]

Oh boy. One year, guys. It's been one one year since Trump is inaugurated. Here we are just one down, three to go.

Getting booed at NBA games in London. It's happening right now. It's really bad. It's It's really bad.

All right, in a moment we're going to jump to Tommy's interview with Jason Zangly about his new Cricut Media Reads book about Tucker Carlson, another potential 2028 candidate. But before we get there, actually Oh gosh, there you go. Uh some housekeeping before we get there. Just a reminder for our friends at the pod and anyone who wants even more Pods Save America, we just launched a new weekly newsletter, Pods Save America Open Tabs, which releases every Thursday morning. Open Tabs offers a behind-the-scenes look into how we put Pods Save America together. Uh what's coming in the next episode and the stories rattling around in our heads before we get into the studio. Can I just say fantastic newsletter?

It's really well done. Our our our editor, Pod Save America, Reed Churlin, is uh is writing it. Reed is the best. He's written he's it's such a great product. Check it out. But you got to be a subscriber.

Got to be a subscriber. And by the way, if you really like POS America, if you want to support what Crooked Media is doing, the best way you can help us as an independent progressive media company is to become a subscribers. Just go to crooked.com/friend. That helps us, you know, limit our reliance on big tech companies or advertising and just go directly to you and and work with you guys. So crooked.com/friends, become a friend of the pod. It helps us a lot. You get great content, you get newsletters, you get ad free episodes, you get subscription stuff. Uh it's worth the money. We promise.

Here's the thing. Like you guys have all seen, you know, Nick Shirley, that YouTuber. He, you know, he uncovered all of that uh he did the big investigation into the Somali fraud that basically led to the deployment in in Minnesota. We want to send Elijah out uh to some of these places to uncover some fraud. So, a fraud.

We're sending love it to the Maraago daycare that is the Trump White House. Yeah. Just me as a little baby water. Goooo Gaga gate.

Is that anything? I like it a lot. Goooo Gaga gate. You know, subscribe crooked.com/friend. Goooo Gaga gate. When we come back, Jason Zangangerly positive America is brought to you by Americans United for the separation of church and state. They love it. What's the most slept on part of the first amendment?

What a funny way to describe uh the first amendment. I mean, well, one thought perhaps it's the establishment clause.

Establishment clause. The whole freedom of Don't don't sleep on the freedom of religion. Damn.

Don't sleep on the establishment clause, baby. That is the freedom of and from religion.

It's giving. It's giving totalitarian state. The threat of Christian nationalism and rampant misuse of religious freedom is all over the place. If you're looking for tools on how to fight back against this or just want to nerd out with other organizers, lawyers, policy makers, and folks inspired to protect freedom of and from religion, check out the Summit for Religious Freedom, or SURF. It's a leading event for anyone passionate about defending religious freedom, church state separation, and the many critical rights that depend on them.

Taking place April 25th through 27th in Washington DC and online, SURF brings together advocates from all walks of life religious non-religious organizers with decades of experience and folks just getting introduced to this work. SURF stands as a united front to protect LGBTQ plus rights, reproductive rights, public schools, and the values that uphold our democracy. At its core, SURF is about collaboration. It's an opportunity to learn from thought leaders and experts working in government, grassroots organizing, and nonprofits focused on religious freedom.

It's a big tent movement confronting the growing threats of Christian nationalists and extremists working to force their narrow beliefs on everyone. Together, attendees strategize, learn, and build the momentum needed to preserve equality, freedom, and democracy for all. And just basically talk about how the establishment clause slays. You know, it's giving. Yeah.

It's serving freedom. That's for sure. Yeah. Learn. Yeah. Separation of church and state totally slays Tom.

Learn more [snorts] about how you can get involved in this critical fight by visiting t

puts the house down by visiting the surf.org. That's thrrf.org. thrf.org. The srf.org. Pods America is brought to you by AG1. AG1 is the daily health drink that combines your multivitamin pre and probiotic superfoods and antioxidants into one simple green scoop. It's one of the easiest things you can do to support your body every day. The new year is often when we commit to building healthier habits or refocusing on improving our health. AG1 can help you work toward those goals by supporting energy, digestive regularity, immune defense, and a healthy mood. Most resolutions are hard to maintain, but one scoop of AG1 every morning is one of the easiest things you can do to add to your routine to keep you on track this new year. I'm starting a new routine this year. It was actually my resolution to have like a smoothie every morning and to have protein and to have greens like AG1. And I'm trying to do it every

single morning. Let me tell you, AG1's a hell of a lot more efficient way to get all your greens than just like stuffing every vegetable in your fridge into that smoothie as you as you blend that thing.

Yeah, totally. Visit drinkag1.com/crooked to get three free AG1 travel packs and three free AGZ travel packs, plus free vitamin D3 plus K2 and an AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's drink ag.com/crooked. Joining me now is the author of Crooked Media Reads newest book, Hated by All the Right People, Tucker Carlson and the Unraveling of the Conservative Mind, Jason Zangangerly. Jason, great to see you. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me on. It's good to be here. Uh, it is great to see you. um we've known each other a long time and this is an incredible book which I have read and I highly highly recommend everybody go pre-order a copy right now because um Tucker is a fascinating character and I think understanding his arc really does tell you the story of the MAGA evolution, the way the world has changed, the way the media has changed over the last couple decades. So I just I could not recommend the book enough. Um so let's just let's just start at the top. So the the books about Tucker Carlson and kind of like the arc of his career across the establishment media world, his time at Fox, his still very mysterious firing from Fox. Um and then there's this modern iteration where he is this massive force in independent media but also like a confidant and adviser to Donald Trump in a lot of ways. So first question is like why did

you decide to follow Tucker instead of some of the other big names in in conservative media, right? Like a Bannon or you know Ben Shapiro. And then I don't know how do you think sto Tucker's story kind of tracks that evolution in American politics that we've seen?

Well, so the the original genesis for the book was I was talking to my agent uh not too long after January 6 in 2021 and we were talking about doing a book about, you know, the the the coming Republican civil war because Donald Trump was clearly gone, right? He was never going to come back from that. And it was and we were talking about, you know, what how 2024 was going to play out, the various factions within the Republican party, who was going to, you know, sort of triumph in that. And I always explained to my agent that I thought, you know, all the people who were going to try to inherit Trump's supporters, you know, the Ted Cruz's, Josh Holl, all those guys, no matter how many positions, like Trump-like positions they staked out, they were never going to get Trump's, you know, supporters, the MAGA base, because like they weren't entertaining. They have no charisma. They're not able to kind of

hold their attention. I mean, say what you will about Trump, but like that that is one of his superpowers. He's a, you know, remarkably entertaining figure. And [snorts] as just kind of an aside, I said to to Chris like, you know, the only guy who who can do that is is Tucker Carlson. And we both kind of paused and we're like, oh, wait a second. Like that's the book. And you know, the more I thought about Tucker, the more I just kind of recognized that his his whole career is such a incredible window on on the incentive structure that exists in conservative media and conservative politics because, you know, every step along the way he's kind of tailored his own personality, tailored his own stances to that incentive structure. and what you see him doing today, you know, what he did at Fox, he's kind of responding to what the conservative base and conservative viewers um want. And he's he's he has a

really um just well-developed kind of radar for for where where the audience is. And and he's had that his entire career. I mean, sometimes it's, you know, failed him in certain instances, but I think for the last 10 years or so, it's been operating on, you know, kind of the highest level. and he's just a really good vehicle to kind of tell this much larger story about how we've gotten to this place where we've gotten.

Okay. So, you said a thousand things there that I want to follow up on. So, I'll try to choose a few. And at the end, I want to ask you about whether Tucker himself might run for office, but let's let's put a pin in that one. Um, so, you know, as you mentioned, like Tucker benefited, he's a great writer, right? He was a great magazine reporter and he benefited from some very correct uh early political predictions. For example, you write about how he wrote this kind of scathing iconic takedown of George W. Bush in 2000 that got at a lot of the personality traits that would ultimately destroy the Bush presidency.

Um, and then Tucker was also one of the first people at Fox News who took Donald Trump seriously. Um, how do you think Tucker kind of was able to judge those two correctly before others did? And then what was the impact do you think of that that early symbiotic relationship with Trump on Tucker's career? I think Tucker when he was a magazine journalist especially like he had a really good detector and he was also like pretty courageous like he was not um afraid to kind of cross you know the you know important conservative figures not afraid to go against the conventional wisdom with with Trump in 2015 2016 I think one thing that happened with Tucker after his cable news career kind of flamed [snorts] out he developed a website called the Daily Caller. And you know, his original vision for the Daily Caller was a fairly like I don't want to say sober, but very fact-based website.

He talked about, you know, had the New York Times was sort of a model in some ways because they cared about facts.

Conservative. I don't remember that really playing out quite like that. But that was the early pitch, wasn't it?

That was the early pitch and that was that was the first staff that he hired. I think he he realized very quickly that there was not an audience for that. Um, but you know, in in recognizing what the audience was, he was able to see that, you know, conservative viewers like really wanted, you know, kind of like nivist content, you know, kind of racist content, you know, focus on like black-on-white crime and things like that. and he saw the um the gap that existed between the conservative base and the Republican establishment I think a lot earlier than you know most conservative pundits did just because he had the the the the traffic metrics in front of him and he saw what readers wanted. So when Trump came along in 2016 you know mo I mean people don't remember this now but like Fox was not a a big booster of Trump in 2016. I mean, they tried to torpedo him in that first debate and it it created a problem for

Fox that they needed just to produce like a compelling television segment, they needed someone who was camera ready to go on the shows and at least not bash Trump, at least sort of be, you know, open to the possibility of Trump. And Tucker, who was kind of on the third or fourth rung of the the Fox pundit roster at that point, he was willing to do that, I think, because he did believe it. And he started getting a lot more airtime and that was kind of how his star rose. I mean, he was not like a a huge Trump supporter necessarily. And he, I think, had a lot of um, you know, personal qualms about Trump, but he did see kind of the how the issues that Trump was banging on might resonate. And that that gave him his break. And that was sort of his ticket out of, you know, the the Fox kind of Netherland, [clears throat] Nether World of, you know, the the weekend morning show. I mean, I guess, God forbid that only Yeah. You're only

secretary of defense these days. Yeah. For a while, for a while, Tucker was like the great success, you know, getting from the morning. Now, Hexith, I guess, has surpassed him, but for a time he was the biggest success.

Yeah. Well, I think well, Tucker was sober by then, so, you know, maybe that that seriousness of this purpose hurt him from getting a job in the the Trump administration. Um, I want to ask you about like two moments or or sort of periods in Tucker's career and maybe how they impacted uh his career arc and then, you know, Tucker personally. Uh, the first is this now iconic moment in 2004 on the CNN show Crossfire. So, for the kids out there who don't remember Crossfire, like congrats. Um, the gist is it was a cable news debate show that was essentially murdered on air by John Stewart who told the hosts that they were hurting America and the show was canceled like not long after. The second moment is, fast forward July 2020. So, Tucker Carlson is one of the hosts of Crossfire. I should have said that. The second moment is July of 2020 when Tucker Carlson Tonight, uh, Tucker's then Fox News show becomes the highest

rated TV program in US cable news history. How do we get from from here to there? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's extraordinary when you think about it.

Yeah, there are a lot there are a lot of steps along the way, you know, as I try to as I try to detail in the book. Um, I do think though you you can't consider what Tucker is today without thinking about that that that John Stewart appearance because I mean that you know he he killed Stewart killed Crossfire and he really killed Tucker's career. I mean Tucker was let go from CNN not long after that. He washes up at MSNBC. You know, people don't take him seriously. Stuart made fun of him for wearing his bow tie. You know, I think what do you say like you're 35 years old and you wear a bow tie?

Yeah. He called him a dick or something. He called him a dick. Yeah, in front of a studio audience that is cheering Steuart on. I mean, it was it was, you know, and and then Paul Begala who was the the host on the left, like he's not saying anything, you know, he just I think he kind of like sort of, you know, he's like Homer Simpson kind of fading into the bushes and like Tucker's the one sort of, you know, arguing with Stuart and he just he just got destroyed. Um, and you know, for Tucker, I mean, it was he had been really riding high before that and you know, he's the youngest host in CNN history. Crossfire.

I mean, people might not know about it today, but like at the time it was the preeminent political show and and and being in the chair on the right, I mean, that was a you that was a very prestigious thing and it it really, you know, it destroyed Tucker's career and I think it it it it sort of bred in him a lot of resentment because he was very much a part of, you know, the the DC kind of political and media elite and when he was, you know, ethered that way, like they didn't really come to his defense. I mean, you know, the way Paul Bala behaved on that set was the way a lot of people in that world behaved and they didn't they didn't rally to Tucker's defense and I think he was hurt by that. I think he was genuinely hurt.

I think he started to question maybe who some of his friends were and I think that kind of built in him a resentment and you know over time that resentment grew and especially as you know he felt that like his his talents were not being recognized or rewarded by you know network executives and the various gatekeepers. I think that that made him like in a weird way kind of like identify with and be receptive towards kind of the resentments that fueled so much of you know Trumpism and populism. And I think you know he like he I mean

he does not sort of portray himself as like an everyman or anything. And I think that's actually kind of what makes him so effective. I mean he you know he in some ways like he's kind of like upped his sort of waspiness. You know he's always wearing the reptai. He's got his Rolex. You know he sips perier. you he drinks for like from a visible perier bottle like he's playing the role of a class traitor and I think that in some ways like makes him more kind of uh I don't know credible in the eyes of you know his populist fans it's it's not actually that different from what Trump does you know he can sort of say like I've been in these rooms I've seen the way elites act and let me tell you they're just as bad as you think and um I think that you know he's he's comfortable kind of attacking these elites because I think in a way he personally feels that he was betrayed by them because they didn't they didn't

help him at his lowest moment. And I think I think you know as I kind of show in the book like that's not really totally true. I mean, you know, he he did get a job at MSNBC, you know, he was when he launched the Daily Caller, like, you know, the people who turned out to support that, you know, you sort of read the list of the people who were at the launch party and where the launch party was held, you know, it's like it's, you know, it's Jake Taber, it's Juliana Glover, it's Mike Allen, it's all these kind of like, you know, creatures of, you know, what he now, you know, refers to as legacy media and disparages, but they were all like rooting for Tucker and um, you know, I guess he's kind of sort of missed that a little bit or he kind of ignores it, But but you know that that that 2004 moment I think definitely kind of fed this resentment that led him in addition to being you know able to kind of sort of intuit it

where the conservative base was. It made it easier for him to be kind of become a populist and you know stick the knife in these people who had once you know been his friends and his you know his allies and his cheerleaders.

Yeah. To to a to a level of success that is almost unimaginable. I mean like 4 million people a night were watching that show or something like that. I mean, it's unbelievable numbers in cable.

Yeah. I mean, you know, and like to his credit, it was it was a it was so different from the other Fox shows. Um I mean, you know, if you tuned tuned into Hannity or you tuned into Laura Ingram, like you knew what you were going to get, right? Like Tucker was like pretty unpredictable. Um and and it wasn't as um Trump focused and Trump obsessed as those shows were. I mean, he was he obviously was, you know, supporting the the administration for mo for the most part, but he tried to maintain like a little bit of personal, I think, distance from from Trump during that first term. And I think that made the show in some ways like more interesting.

I mean, not just to like sort of regular viewers, but I think to it was always, you know, like conservative intellectuals like that show. Like you could actually like read like a Ross Stout column about a Tucker Carlson monologue. Like you would never get that about, you know, a Sean Hannity monologue or a Laura Anger monologue. like it was just he was operating at like a higher level.

Yeah. And it was it certainly seemed like Tucker I mean he was personally investing maybe more of his time and energy into the writing whereas some of those other hosts it just feels like they're mailing it in you know day you're you're 20 of some EP writing the same garbage script for them.

Yeah. He cared about the writing in a way that you know I think very few others did. And you know and that was new I mean for I think for a lot of his cable news career after he left magazine journalism. I don't think he sort of spent a lot of time writing when he was at CNN, CNN, MSNBC, but he he really treated that monologue like he would have like a magazine piece earlier, you know, even the way he talked about it, like, you know, he would say he would say like, "I'm filing it to like his producers." Um, it just it was just a different mentality.

And I think that's a mentality that served others well. I mean, I think Rachel Maddo is very similar in in her preparation for the show back in the day, which was she she would, I think, go into the office and spend hours and hours and hours hammering out her opening monologue. you know, often they were 20 minutes long, so it would take a lot of time, but she was personally invested in that.

Yeah. Yeah. No, and I I mean, that's not a coincidence. I mean, I you know, I think like one I mean, one of the things I like doing with this book was sort of introducing people to Tucker who maybe only know him since, you know, he had his Fox prime time show kind of the the things about him that they probably were not aware of. You know, one of them is like, you know, he he kind of discovered Rachel Matto, like he was the one who brought her to MSNBC when he was on MSNBC. like he needed an intelligent debate partner and he want Mattau was I think a Air America host at that point.

He saw her audition tape. He wanted her to come on. The execs did not want her. They thought you know she was not TV ready and he really fought for her and you know and brought her on the show and you know as I understand it like they're still they're still friendly.

Mhm. Um so another mystery about Tucker is like no one seems to know why he was fired from Fox News. There's a lot of theories. There are some people thinking, you know, kind of made the wrong powerful person at the network uh cross them, you know, pissed them off. Um I talked with someone recently who is personally close with Tucker who insists that the firing was one of the terms of the lawsuit Fox News settled with Dominion Voting Systems.

Yeah, I don't know that that's the Tucker theory. That Okay, so what's your So that's coming from Tucker, you think? What's your theory?

I I don't know. I mean, I I wish I could say I did. I wish I could say this book kind of tells all and reveals it, but honestly like none of the explanations I've ever heard, none of the theories like are fully sort of satisfying and add up. I mean, I I do think it was probably a combination. I mean, Tucker's theory is that, you know, Dominion wanted Rupert Murdoch to get to a billion dollars. That was like their line and Murdoch would not cross that. He would not get to a billion. So, he basically counterposed 700 million in Tucker Carlson's scalp. Wow. And they took that. But I don't But, you know, there's no proof of that. And Tucker has, you know, I think a lot of theories that, you know, are probably not not necessarily grounded in reality. I mean,

yeah, there's a theory that um that Murdoch himself be kind of became uncomfortable just with the amount of power that Tucker had amassed inside the network and this and just in his world. I mean, there's this there's this famous story that Tucker went out to Murdoch's uh estate in California not too long before he was fired to have um I guess lunch or some meal with Rupert Murdoch and his then fiance. And his then fiance was a huge Tucker Carlson fan. so much that she thought he was a messenger for God

and you know told this to Tucker during the meal and and Murdoch was like so kind of weirded out by this that

yeah the next day like he broke off the engagement and then not much longer Tucker was fired. So that one seems not not implausible to me.

That's a great theory. I love that. Um, okay. So, nearly every profile, book, article, uh, conversation you have in DC about Tucker Carlson seems to struggle with a fundamental tension, which is that, um, people who've known him personally, who've interacted with him personally, compared to like in that experience compared to what he says on his show, which is like open racism, anti-semitic guests, content that's just generally extremely paranoid sounding. Um, I know you've known Tucker since, you know, 1997. when you guys sort of first cross paths. Um, even I have had personal interactions with Tucker where, you know, I came away confused by the disconnect between the the things I see and hear from him on his show versus the conversation I had with a guy who could be at times, you know, charming and smart and funny and just, you know, seem very normal. Um, and it leads to the question like, who is the real Tucker?

Does he buy the sticktick? Is it the, you know, DC lifer, you know, who's chummy with the people he demonizes, or is it the persona we see on the show? Where have you landed on this sort of like fundamental question?

I think I think the guy you see on his show today is who he is. I I he's not chummy with DC people anymore. I don't think um you know I think that uh he during the first Trump presidency he really I think he realized that the place that he kind of held in, you know, in Washington society was no longer tenable because of Trump. I mean, he was always kind of the, you know, like the invited skunk to the garden party, you know, like liberal DC people would have him for, you know, dinner parties and go out with him and be friends with him and, you know, he would say outrageous things and they were just going, "Oh, that's Tucker." You know, but I think when Trump came into office, that was really no longer tenable. Um, and it got to the point that he had to leave DC. I mean, and and you know, when he left DC, he really he cut off all of his kind of contact with those people. and he now lives in a very kind of hermetically

sealed world, you know, up in Maine, um, and down in Florida, on an island literally in Maine,

an island in Maine and an island in Florida. Um, same, you know, same deal. And, you know, and his his social circle, you know, he's kind of traded in like Bill Crystal for like Don Jr. I mean, his his whole social world is completely, you know, it's it's all MAGA people. It's all, you know, podcasters and the like. It's not a

horrible conserv not Yeah. Not conservative podcasters or, you know, like crew. Yeah. No.

Yes. He's I I've also heard though, you know, there there were some uh there was one point right before Tucker left where a bunch of protesters went to his home. I think maybe banged on the door, frightened his Tucker's wife when Tucker wasn't home. And I was told that that was an incredibly [snorts] radicalizing experience for him. Do you think that's

that was the final straw? Yeah. I mean, up until that point, like he had, you know, he was having a hard time like, you know, he'd go to like the dog park and people would curse him out. like he could no longer eat at the Palm, which is which was his favorite restaurant. I know. I know. He had to go to the prime rib. Um so, but these are these are hardship. He was he was upset about this, but when the the protesters came to his house, um that really I think that sort of was a line in the sand for him. I mean, but you know, he's completely spun this story about how it was horrible protesters came to his house and frightened his wife, but he makes it sound like, you know, the the DC sort of political class supported that. that actually is not the case. I mean everybody denounced that like even people that he was you know at war with like you know Max boot and people like that you know said like you shouldn't do

this but he's sort of allied at that and just kind of lumps them all in together.

Interesting. Um similar like related question. So as Tucker has gone into independent media he has pushed the envelope further and further to the right in terms of booking guests and and talking about subjects that might otherwise have been seen as just like out of bounds. Um certainly out of bounds for Fox News. Um there like a couple examples are there was an extremely cushy interview with Vladimir Putin in 2024 that included like segments like praising you know a Russian supermarket and the kind of like Russian system. There was this open embrace of the great replacement theory which is this anti-semitic theory that suggests you know the democrats are trying to bring in new voters to replace uh others and the world is controlled by Jews. Uh and then you know most recently like there was Tucker's again very very soft interview with uh this neo-Nazi named Nick Fuentes um who again like you

know was no one would touch the guy a year or two ago and I think Tucker was seen as bringing him in to um the more you know establishment MAGA media world. Um I'm curious as to why you think Tucker does this stuff. Like is it that he just won't be told who he's allowed to interview? Is he genuinely interested? Does he share these opinions or is is like I don't know is is keeping up with the neo-Nazi fringe how you stay current and relevant in this era like I don't know what's your view.

Well, I mean when I talk about incentive structure I do think that's you know that's an instance of this. Um I do think you know I think Tucker's calculating that is that is how you stay current. um you know he in in sort of creating this this new media company that he has and this video podcast like he does not he can't he doesn't have Fox's built-in audience anymore and you know in the intention economy which he's proven to be kind of a master of like you need to generate outrage and and one of the ways you generate outrage is you have guests like you know Vladimir Putin or you know Andrew Tate or Alex Jones you have these guys on because people are going to pay attention to that they're going to tune in. So I do think that's part of his strategy. I mean, I also think, you know, at Fox, like he Roger Als always had this, you know, sort of rule that no one was bigger than the network. Like Tucker, who you know,

came along after Als was gone. He violated that rule. He did become bigger than the network in a lot of ways. And there were a lot of lines that he crossed there and then they just kept on moving the line to allow him to cross. That said, like now there no guardrails. I mean, people talk about sort of the second Trump term and how there are no guardrails anymore. Like I think that applies to Tucker, you know, just as much. Like there's no one to tell him no. He doesn't he doesn't have bosses. It's not a publicly traded company.

There are no shareholders to worry about. They actually bought back, you know, they they paid off all the investors who originally invested in the company. They bought it back from them. So, like he truly has no bosses. But, you know, at the same time, like he's very responsive to where he thinks the audience is. And the Fuentes thing is like a really fascinating example because, you know, he was in this huge feud with Fuentes. You know, he called him he called him he said he was a fed, he called him gay. I mean, he was like attacking him on his show and then Fuentes fired back and I think Tucker was losing. Like I think he kind of saw like, you know, via social media that that Fuentes's fans were taking Fuentes's side. And Tucker

Tucker realized that like or at least he thinks that you can't be successful in that world unless you have, you know, the Gropers and the neo-Nazis on your side. And so he had Fuentes on his show and did this softball interview with him. I think is kind of like an olive branch

[snorts] um to try to diffuse the feud because he was worried that he was going to lose he was going to lose these people and you know I think that that that's I think a lot of that is what's driving him is this this idea that this is where the audience is um and he's trying to sort of skate to where he thinks the puck is going to be and he you know I think is making the calculus that it's gonna be with these you know sort of more extreme people

and look this is again why Tucker is so I um uniquely powerful in the mag mega media world. I think a lot of people would argue uniquely dangerous to our political discourse. Um because I don't know if you saw this, but over the weekend there were a bunch of videos that Nick Fuentes and these other absolute loser douchebag like neo-Nazi misogynist like horrible people. They all went to a club in Miami and posted videos of themselves singing a song by Kanye West called Hy Hitler uh and and doing Nazi salutes and you know like and you know these with the tape brothers who are accused of rape. I mean, vile people. And you know, if Tucker is seen as like the biggest force in the MAGA media world and he is kind of bringing someone like Fuentes and those individuals into the fold of the MAGA world while also somehow maintaining a relationship with JD Vance, the current vice president who was attacked in the

most racist terms possible by Nick Fuentes. It just it like it feels like those two things shouldn't be able to be true, but I it's it's quite dangerous to me.

Yeah. No. Well, yeah. I I mean, I did see that video. It was sort of like the final straw for me. I've been like resisting having to learn who Clavvicular was or whatever his name and now like I broke down this weekend and read about him. So, I'm sure he'll be a guest on Tucker show soon.

Um, you know, and Vance is Vance and Tucker I think are very similar. One, I mean, they actually are like genuine friends. I think they actually share a lot of the same kind of views and resentments and um the way Vance has responded to the Fuentes I mean Fuentes going on Tucker's show was it's kind of crazy how that that episode triggered this response and this kind of you know civil war within the conservative movement. I mean people like sort of forget that like Fentes had dinner with Donald Trump in 2022. No one responded to that the way they're responding to Tucker hosting him on his podcast which I think is like really interesting. It's either, you know, people are kind of virtue signaling and they think it's easier to attack Tucker than it is to attack Trump. Or, and I think this is actually like a real view, I think there are a lot of people in the conservative movement, especially Jewish

conservatives, who are more fearful of Tucker than and and where Tucker is going than they are of Trump. Like, they don't they think Trump at the end of the day will be with them. What they're worried is what's going to happen after Trump and where Tucker is taking the Republican party and the conservative movement and you know and I think in their view taking JD Vance along with him um that the Tucker Vance relationship I think is is something that troubles a lot of of conservatives um people who and you know it's different kind of trouble like some people like really like Vance and they're like why is he going along with Tucker you know Tucker is going to really like lead him to the wrong place but you know I think Vance is going along pretty willingly and I think the way Vance who you're right I mean the the things Fuentes has said about Vance himself much less about his wife um and JD Vance just you know he once back

during the campaign I think he said something kind of nasty or not even that nasty he just said that you know Doug Fuentes was a loser but now he will not take the bait um you know at that that uh Turning Point um conference where Ben Shapiro showed up and kind of read the riot act to Tucker and you know Fuentes and all these people when V when it was Vance's turn to speak

he completely wussed out yeah you know and he said, "I'm not here to cancel anybody." And I think that's he's he's made I think the calculus that Tucker's made that you can't succeed in conservative politics these days and in the Republican party without without the neo-Nazis on your side.

That is scary and pathetic and I I won't, you know, make you go into all the foreign policy implications, but Tucker definitely has a very um very different uh view on US support for Israel and, you know, whether the US should be sending money and weapons to Israel than others in the Republican party. And so the stakes are are quite uh large there from a foreign policy perspective. But final question for you then like big picture is, you know, I I've wondered whether Tucker would run for office himself. Um especially run for president. I I kind of wondered if Trump hadn't hadn't run again. I I was where you were when I assumed Tucker might. Um what do you think? I mean, does do you think that's possibly in the cards? It's a very different life than what he's got going on currently. You can't do it from Maine.

Ah, I don't know. Can you? I mean, seriously, I I mean, I feel like the way our politics are going, I mean, you know, he you don't have to be on the campaign trail every day. Um, you can just, you know, sit in a studio and, you know, put out tweets and and and the like. I think I think that I think it is possible to do it that way. I mean, you have to do some travel, but, you know, he did that. I mean, he had his arena tour in 2024. Um, but I mean like putting aside kind of like the logistics, I mean I think that look he I think it's important to think of him not as like a media figure but almost as a as a political operator. I mean because that's kind of the way he runs his media operation and he he doesn't just want to be a podcaster and you know he I think he really wants to change the country and I think the question for him is going to be can he do that without actually running for office for you know himself

and like right now he has this very you know tight [snorts] symbiotic relationship with JD Vance and JD Vance is you know saying a lot of the things that Tucker says you know maybe like lowering the the sort of the really kind of like nasty stuff a little bit, you know, toning it down a little bit, but still like very much in line with with what Tucker says and believes. And I think JD Vance worries a lot about what Tucker thinks and what Tucker's reaction is going to be to things. And I think, you know, if Tucker is confident that one, JD Vance will stay alive with him and two, that he could get elected, yeah, he probably doesn't need to do it himself. But at a certain point, if he feels like Vance is maybe not going to follow the line that Tucker wants or I think even more sort of like plausibly is not a particularly good politician and can't get elected, then I yeah, I could totally see Tucker doing it. And I

think the the the way you would run for president now is so different than it was, you know, four years ago, 8 years ago, 12 years ago that in a way, like I mean, Trump is just you you you're a media figure now. And that and that's the way that's the way Jumper could do it.

Um I mean he'd probably have to you know get out of his bubble a little bit but not not as much as maybe you might think.

Yeah, you'd have to you would have to hit the road. I mean you're certainly right that having a built-in audience having a studio to broadcast from like that that's a lot you know it's influencer piece. There are a bunch of like you know security concerns you know lifestyle concerns

uh increased scrutiny that I'm sure uh no one would enjoy but maybe it's worth it for power.

Yeah. No, he wants power. I mean, he look he he believes what he's saying. I think I think that's sort of one sort of takeaway from the book I hope people get is like you need to to you can have the debate like did he did he always believe it? Did he sort of, you know, do this out of cynicism, but he's been saying it long enough now and he's been, you know, successful in saying it that I think it's just sort of human nature to start to believe it. And you know, you talk to enough people around him like this this is what he believes. Like these are his views about what he thinks the country should be doing, where it should be headed, and he, you know, he believes them in some ways like more deeply, I think, than than you know, a lot of people in in Donald Trump's world do. Um he's not,

you know, he's not sort of aligning himself with Trump to, you know, protect his bottom line or, you know, increase his company's, you know, shareholder value. Like he

he wants these things that Trump says he wants in terms of, you know, the character of the country and the like. And um I think he he's not going to he's he's going to do what he has to do that he thinks he has to do to make that happen to achieve that goal.

Well, I guess uh there will be a lot to watch in the future. Um there's so much more in the book that we could have talked about. There's understanding Tucker's mom and the way she essentially abandoned their family and how he blames liberalism for that. There's the relationship with Victor Orban in Hungary and basically I mean the the the title of the book Hated by All the Right People uh is a reference to you know I think a line Tucker Carlson said about Victor Orban, right?

Yeah. And a toast to Victor Orban like he was Yeah. He was eating dinner with him and that was his toast to Victor Orban. You're truly hated by all the right people.

And now Orban is like a darling on the right. And I think Tucker has a direct line in that. And again, so everyone should buy the book hated by all the right people. Tucker Carlson and the unraveling of the conservative mind. pre-order it now. Get it while it's hot. Um, it's it's an incredible book. It you will be fascinated, but also learn a lot about Tucker and this political moment we're in. Uh, Jason Zangangerly, great to see you. Thank you for writing it.

Oh, thanks a lot. Yeah. That's our show for today. Thanks to Jason for coming on. Remember, you can pre-order Hated by All the Right People at crooked.com/books or pick up the book wherever you shop when it releases on January 27th. Dan and I will be back in your feed on Friday.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "World BOOS As Trump Goes INSANE In UNHINGED Move"?

John Favreau (Host), Tommy Vietor (Host), John Lovett (Host), Jason Zangerly (Guest).

What is discussed in "World BOOS As Trump Goes INSANE In UNHINGED Move"?

In order: 0:00 Donald Trump, Nobel Peace Prize, Crooked Media, Jason Zangerly; 10:00 Donald Trump, Crooked Media, Supreme Court, Davos; 20:00 Crooked Media, Supreme Court; 30:00 John Wick; 40:00 Donald Trump; 50:00 Cook Unity, Better Help, Donald Trump, Nobel Peace Prize; 1:00:00 Tim Alberta, Mary Pollah; 1:10:00 Crooked Media, Jason Zangangerly, Crooked Media Reads, AG1; 1:20:00 Donald Trump; 1:40:00 Donald Trump; 1:50:00 Hated by All the Right People, Crooked Media, Jason Zangangerly.

What is mentioned in this Pod Save America episode?

23 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, Nobel Peace Prize, Crooked Media, Supreme Court, Jason Zangerly, Crooked Media Reads. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "World BOOS As Trump Goes INSANE In UNHINGED Move"?

The episode runs 1 h 51 min; the transcript is about 24,480 words in 303 timestamped sections.

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About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.