Transcript

Maggies: The Healing Power of Baby Flies | Terrestrials Podcast

From Radiolab · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

October 21, 2025 · 28 min · 5,011 words · 148 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Maggies: The Healing Power of Baby Flies | Terrestrials Podcast", an episode of Radiolab published October 21, 2025 (28 min, about 5,011 words). It mentions 69 people, works and ideas, including maggots, Terrestrials, antibiotics, baby flies, ER doctor.

What this episode is about

The piece explores the unconventional medical use of maggots, the larval stage of flies, in wound healing and infection treatment. ER doctor Avier Mitra shares his insights on how these creatures, often considered disgusting, can play a crucial role in saving lives through their unique healing properties.

Key takeaways

Maggots, the unlikely healers: They cleanse wounds efficiently, eating dead tissue but ignoring the healthy bits.
Flies' prodigious offspring: Maggots grow at a mind-blowing rate, doubling in size every 24 hours.
Maggots may cause squeamishness, but much like walruses, their form is oddly endearing under microscopes.
From revulsion to resolution: Embracing maggots entails overcoming disgust to reap medical miracles.
Maggies are misunderstood superheroes; their snack of rotten flesh leads to healthier human flesh.

What is discussed, and when

0:00 – 5:00: maggots, Avier Mitra, baby flies, caterpillar
5:00 – 10:00: maggots, California coastline, dentist, Diana Dwi
10:00 – 15:00: maggots, antibiotics, bandage, baby flies
15:00 – 20:00: maggots, disgust, scalpel, antibiotics
20:00 – 25:00: ER doctor, maggots, air mail, Alan Ginsky
25:00 – 28:29: maggots, Terrestrials, Alan Ginsky, Anna Gonzalez

Notable quotes from "Maggies: The Healing Power of Baby Flies | Terrestrials Podcast"

Why? Well, did you know that maggots are actually baby flies?
about maggots · at 0:54
And today's very special storyteller is coming to us straight from the emergency room.
about emergency room · at 1:40
Really cool animal story, today's episode is secretly about what can happen when you push through disgust.
about disgust · at 2:35
I just finished med school, so I'm a brand new doctor. Okay, so I have this like title. People are calling me doctor, but I'm still kind of a little nervous cuz I don't really.
about med school · at 4:58
Clean antibiotics, kill the bacteria to make sure what's left of the dead flesh doesn't spread.
about antibiotics · at 10:40
Terrestrials is back. We're in a medical mystery. Diana's wound is getting worse, but she's just found out that baby flies, aka Maggie's, could maybe help her.
about Terrestrials · at 12:02
What animal will make the best ER doctor?
about ER doctor · at 22:44
Huge thank you to Dr. Aver Mitra. if you liked his storytelling, he tells a ton more medical stories over at Radio Lab. Just look for Averir Mitra and Radio Lab and you'll find…
about Radio Lab · at 27:01

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Lula Miller — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:33
Crestrials is a show where we uncover the strangeness waiting right here on Earth. I am your host, Lulu Miller, joined as always by my song bud Alan my way downtown.
Alan Ginsky — Person · 2 mentions · first at 22:24
Alan Ginsky everybody and there is nothing else cool about.
Avier Mitra — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:46
Diana Dwi — Person · 1 mention · first at 8:14
There's this woman I talked to. Her name was Diana Dwi. She had a motorcycle. I imagined her zipping down the California coastline, fresh air all around her. But one day she injured her foot.
Dr. Ron Sherman — Person · 1 mention · first at 13:27
History of people using maggots to treat wounds, it came to the attention of a doctor in California named Dr. Ron Sherman who wondered, Wait, have I been trained all wrong?
Phineas — Person · 1 mention · first at 24:36
Hi, my name is Phineas. I am 7 years old. What is the most useful tool to an ER doctor?
Mera Bert Winonic — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:36
Episode was produced by the magnificent Alan Ginsky with sound design so good I'm bugging by Mera Bert Winonic. Our executive producer is Sarah Samach. Our team also includes…
Sarah Samach — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:40
Alan Ginsky with sound design so good I'm bugging by Mera Bert Winonic. Our executive producer is Sarah Samach. Our team also includes Anna Gonzalez, Tanya Chala, and Joe Plord. Factecking by Natalie Middleton.
Anna Gonzalez — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:42
I'm bugging by Mera Bert Winonic. Our executive producer is Sarah Samach. Our team also includes Anna Gonzalez, Tanya Chala, and Joe Plord. Factecking by Natalie Middleton.
Tanya Chala — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:42
I'm bugging by Mera Bert Winonic. Our executive producer is Sarah Samach. Our team also includes Anna Gonzalez, Tanya Chala, and Joe Plord. Factecking by Natalie Middleton.
Joe Plord — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:44
Executive producer is Sarah Samach. Our team also includes Anna Gonzalez, Tanya Chala, and Joe Plord. Factecking by Natalie Middleton.
Natalie Middleton — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:46
Team also includes Anna Gonzalez, Tanya Chala, and Joe Plord. Factecking by Natalie Middleton.
Jamie Albreight — Person · 1 mention · first at 27:59
Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Jamie Albreight, Kid Advisor Kai, and Mama Fly Maya. Congrats for making it all the way to…
Kid Advisor Kai — Person · 1 mention · first at 27:59
Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Jamie Albreight, Kid Advisor Kai, and Mama Fly Maya. Congrats for making it all the way to…
Mama Fly Maya — Person · 1 mention · first at 28:01
Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Jamie Albreight, Kid Advisor Kai, and Mama Fly Maya. Congrats for making it all the way to the end of an episode about using…
Lyra — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

Egyptian literature — Book · 1 mention · first at 12:39
Maggots for wounds. H in fact, there's references to it in Egyptian literature.

Companies & orgs

Terrestrials — Company · 4 mentions · first at 1:19
Radio Lab — Company · 2 mentions · first at 0:07
med school — Company · 2 mentions · first at 4:58
Monarch Labs — Company · 1 mention · first at 23:15
Yeah, Dr. Ron started a business selling medical maggots, now called Monarch Labs. He actually got his wife to help him.
WNYC Studios — Company · 1 mention · first at 26:27
I live terrestrials was created by me, Lulu Miller with WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by the magnificent Alan Ginsky with sound design so good I'm bugging by Mera Bert Winonic. Our executive producer is Sarah Samach. Our.

Products & tech

scalpel — Product · 3 mentions · first at 10:30
So, generally, the first thing you want to do is take a scalpel, which is like a surgeon's knife.
bandage — Product · 3 mentions · first at 10:47
Carefully changing the bandage every day.
motorcycle — Product · 2 mentions · first at 8:14
There's this woman I talked to. Her name was Diana Dwi. She had a motorcycle. I imagined her zipping down the California coastline, fresh air all around her. But one day she injured her foot.
medical maggots — Product · 2 mentions · first at 14:28
He takes some special sterilized medical maggots. He sprinkles them in each patient's wound and then covers it with a bandage. And then every couple days, he takes the maggis out, leaves the.
microscope — Product · 1 mention · first at 3:57
Yep. And if you look at them up close under a microscope, they actually look like little walruses.
vacuum suction — Product · 1 mention · first at 6:45
My head doctor, she used little vacuum suction things. You know when you go to the dentist?
stiletto high heel shoes — Product · 1 mention · first at 16:17
Yep. And today, her leg. I can wear stiletto high heel shoes. I ride a motorcycle. I can It's perfect.
alcohol swab — Product · 1 mention · first at 24:22
And she's yeah, I do have a purple sweater. So then I just took an alcohol swab. I started rubbing her skin and it just came off. It was just ink from this purple sweater. Her face turned red. She was so embarrassed.
guitar — Product · 1 mention · first at 25:44
Terrestrial Survey — Product · 1 mention · first at 27:39
Collect that data. So, to submit your episode, go to the link in the show feed. It's called Terrestrial Survey.
cast — Product · 1 mention
pen — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

maggots — Concept · 24 mentions · first at 0:54
antibiotics — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 10:40
baby flies — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 0:57
Why? Well, did you know that maggots are actually baby flies?
ER doctor — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 1:48
disgust — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 2:39
emergency room — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 1:44
fruit fly — Concept · 1 mention · first at 3:10
The mama fly, right? So like it turns out like just a normal fly, like a fruit fly or house fly that's flying around, you know?
house fly — Concept · 1 mention · first at 3:10
The mama fly, right? So like it turns out like just a normal fly, like a fruit fly or house fly that's flying around, you know?
cocoon — Concept · 1 mention · first at 4:35
And then they got to get ready to become flies. Their shell hardens into a sort of cocoon.
caterpillar — Concept · 1 mention · first at 4:36
Oh, kind of like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, right? Yeah.
myasis — Concept · 1 mention · first at 6:02
Door behind me. I was flabbergasted. I didn't know what I'd seen. It's actually a condition called myasis.
dentist — Concept · 1 mention · first at 6:49
My head doctor, she used little vacuum suction things. You know when you go to the dentist?
wound healing — Concept · 1 mention · first at 9:16
Oh, got it. And when that happens, instead of a wound healing, the wound can slowly turn black, and that means the tissue is literally dying. So Diana, when they took off the cast, they realized that the wound wasn't healing.
gang green — Concept · 1 mention · first at 9:46
The medical term is called gang green.
wound treatment 101 — Concept · 1 mention · first at 10:19
Today's lesson, wound treatment 101.
bone infection — Concept · 1 mention · first at 11:12
It was at that point I realized I'm in danger of getting a bone infection which could cause them to amputate my foot.
therapy dogs — Concept · 1 mention · first at 11:33
Have you ever heard of therapy dogs?
oral tradition — Concept · 1 mention · first at 12:44
And in ancient Aboriginal tribes in Australia, that is part of their oral tradition. They would say, Yeah, we use maggots. That's that's what's been told to me by my dad and my dad's dad and my dad's dad's dad. And we've just.
indigenous healers — Concept · 1 mention · first at 13:00
The list went on and on. From Central America to Syria to Myanmar, there were indigenous healers and doctors throughout history who treated patients by putting or leaving…
parasites — Concept · 1 mention · first at 13:36
Right? Are maggots in wounds really parasites or is this a symbiotic relationship?
symbiotic relationship — Concept · 1 mention · first at 13:36
Right? Are maggots in wounds really parasites or is this a symbiotic relationship?
digestive enzymes — Concept · 1 mention · first at 16:59
So, they actually have these digestive enzymes in their bellies, just like we do.
Lucifens — Concept · 1 mention · first at 17:57
era of cleanliness — Concept · 1 mention · first at 20:03
I think we're living in the height of the era of cleanliness. Hm. It's only been in the past couple hundred years that we realize that being clean, using antibiotics can really help us. But now we look at everything that's a little.
microbes — Concept · 1 mention · first at 20:21
Dirty as bad. And we just want to be completely rid of any little bugs, worms, and microbes.
air mail — Concept · 1 mention · first at 23:39
detoxify — Concept · 1 mention · first at 25:29
The liver. The liver has to basically filter and detoxify every single thing that goes into your body. Your liver has to figure out for each thing, how do I turn it from what it is into something that's useful for you?
amputation — Concept · 1 mention
diagnosis — Concept · 1 mention
maggot therapy — Concept · 1 mention
scab — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

California coastline — Place · 1 mention · first at 8:17
There's this woman I talked to. Her name was Diana Dwi. She had a motorcycle. I imagined her zipping down the California coastline, fresh air all around her. But one day she injured her foot.

Sponsors

Arthur Vining Davis Foundations — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 27:53
Because of support for terrestrials is provided by the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Jamie Albreight, Kid Advisor Kai, and Mama Fly Maya. Congrats for.
Simons Foundation — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 27:53
Because of support for terrestrials is provided by the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Jamie Albreight, Kid Advisor Kai, and Mama Fly Maya. Congrats for.
John Templeton Foundation — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 27:55
Support for terrestrials is provided by the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Jamie…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Oh, wait. You're listen. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. You're listening to Radio Lab.

0:11 Radio from Wy 3 2 1. Imagine your arms fall off and then your legs fall off. And the only way you can get around

0:30 is to sort of wiggle and you shrink. You're smaller than your dog. You're smaller than a peanut.

0:38 Your skin turns kind of see-through and your eyes disappear. And instead of liking like candy, all you want to eat is dead flesh.

0:49 You have become a maggot. No. Why? Well, did you know that maggots are actually baby flies?

0:59 Oh, they're little babies. Yeah. And if you stick with me, I promise you're going to go from thinking these maggots are the grossest things ever to actually really liking them. You might even love them.

1:10 I'm dubious, but okay. Um, oh my gosh, I forgot to do the most important part. Now is the part where I make you sing the theme song with me.

1:18 Okay. Terrestrials. Terrestrials. We are not the worst. We are the Bestrials. Yeah,

1:28 Crestrials is a show where we uncover the strangeness waiting right here on Earth. I am your host, Lulu Miller, joined as always by my song bud

1:36 Alan my way downtown. Uh, and today's very special storyteller is coming to us straight from the emergency room.

1:45 Hey, who are you, sir? My name is Avier Mitra. So, you are an ER doctor? Yeah. Yeah.

1:50 And where do you doctor? at NYU in New York City. What do you love about this work?

1:55 Well, all these people, they have problems and I can help them and I can make them feel better and sometimes I can save their lives. And the story he has today is about why he thinks one way to save lives is maggots.

2:10 Yes. All right. And now friends is where I do an official disclaimer because there is some stuff ahead that might make some people a little squeamish because we're talking about bugs and we are talking about medical treatments for scrapes and wounds. not necessarily everybody's cup of tea, but for those of you who have not already hit the stop button, I would encourage you to listen with an open mind because not only are you in for a really cool animal story, today's episode is secretly about what can happen when you push through disgust.

2:42 When you just pout pow bat back disgust with curiosity, pow pow pow, it can take us to amazing places.

2:50 Okay, you believe in me? You think I can make it? I think you can make it. You think I can, maggot? We're going to magg it to the other side.

2:58 All right, let's do this thing. All right, so the story of these little gnarly babies starts with their mom,

3:07 the mama fly, right? So like it turns out like just a normal fly, like a fruit fly or house fly that's flying around, you know?

3:13 Yeah. Just annoying want to swat it. If it lands on something that it thinks is tasty, like maybe a rotten piece of meat or some poop or something, it'll deposit eggs into that. And those eggs will hatch and become maggots.

3:32 Huh. So those little white wormy things, they're just newborns. Yeah. And when you think about it that way, they start to go from being gross to kind of cute.

3:40 A maybe we need a cuter name. Can we just call them Maggies? I sure I guess. Yeah. Okay.

3:48 Sweet little Maggies. I'm just a little baby. They don't have eyes, but they can actually see light through their skin.

3:55 That's cool. Yep. And if you look at them up close under a microscope, they actually look like little walruses.

4:00 Oh my gosh. They really do look like little blubbery walruses. The little tusks.

4:06 I know. And those little rolly poly rolls, they help them wiggle around even though they don't have legs.

4:12 Neat. Yeah. And they're eating so much they basically double size every 24 hours.

4:17 Might be hungry. Like imagine if that happened to you. Like you eat a big dinner, you wake up the next day.

4:22 Tomorrow I'm like 10 ft tall. Yeah. How cool is that? Yeah, that is cool. They're only maggots for like 3 to seven days.

4:31 And then they got to get ready to become flies. Their shell hardens into a sort of cocoon.

4:36 Oh, kind of like a a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, right? Yeah. You know, thinking about them as little walrus looking caterpillars actually kind of helps my body just chill out a little, like not be as as grossed out. So, I think I'm ready to hear the tale. Where does your Maggie adventure begin? I just finished med school, so I'm a brand new doctor. Okay,

5:01 so I have this like title. People are calling me doctor, but I'm still kind of a little nervous cuz I I don't really know too much. Mhm.

5:08 And I'll never forget this day. Nervous new doctor of checks the list of patients who need help and picks a guy with foot pain thinking that'll be an easy one.

5:18 Exactly. Like, all right, I got this. So, I sign up for this patient. I go in the room and right away I notice something's a little off.

5:27 So, I ask him, "All right, sir, what's going on?" And he looks a little embarrassed. And he just sort of points to his foot. And as I'm looking, I see like little wiggling around his foot.

5:39 And there were Maggis in a wound on this guy's foot. And next thing I know, my head starts spinning. I feel nauseous, but I still I'm trying to play it cool because I would feel really bad if I looked at a guy's foot who's a patient, and then I threw up on his foot.

5:53 Yeah. So, I just go, "Okay, I'll be right back. No problem." Walk out, close the door behind me. I was flabbergasted. I didn't know what I'd seen. It's actually a condition called myasis.

6:04 Myasis. Yeah. Which means when a person is infested with maggots, like you have a a wound from some kind of injury and and somehow a fly lays its eggs inside.

6:15 Exactly. Now, Aver says this is really pretty rare and you don't need to worry if a fly lands on you, even if you have a cut nearby. In this case, Aver's patient had had a really bad wound that was left untreated for a very long time. And I never heard of this before and I I didn't learn about this in med school. I I don't know if I just fell asleep that day in class, but I just don't ever remember hearing about that before.

6:39 Okay, so back to our guy in the ER that day. I mean, was he okay? Like what happened with him?

6:45 My head doctor, she used little vacuum suction things. You know when you go to the dentist?

6:50 Oh, that seems like a good way. Yeah. And she got them all out. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like just peeking over her shoulders cuz I was uh I was grossed out. She bandaged up his wounds and sent him on his way and he was very he was very thankful.

7:04 But later that night back in his apartment, Avere did something that I think very few of us would. Instead of staying grossed out, Avere decided to give Maggie's another chance. He started researching, trying to understand what was happening to the man's body and to the bugs. And at some point deep into the night, he stumbled across something from thousands of years ago.

7:30 All I know is that from that moment on, I was never the same. He found a totally different way of understanding what a Maggie in a wound meant.

7:41 And I thought, if I ever see this again, maybe I could totally flip this whole thing. Like, what if I don't take them out? In fact, maybe we put maggots onto wounds. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, that is wild. Are you a mean doctor trying to cause harm?

7:58 No, no. See, I actually have a different theory that maybe these maggots are like the best things ever. To explain that, we got to take a detour and talk about motorbikes.

8:09 Oh, okay. Motorcycles. Yeah. All right. Vroom vroom. There's this woman I talked to. Her name was Diana Dwi. She had a motorcycle. I imagined her zipping down the California coastline, fresh air all around her. But one day she injured her foot.

8:24 Okay. She went to the doctor. They put her in a cast and you know when you get a cut, when you scrape your skin, you get like a bunch of bleeding, but then it turns into a scab and then it slowly heals, right?

8:36 Yeah. Right. Right. Like scabs are gross looking, but they're they're good, right?

8:40 They're good cuz it's you healing that wound. But in order for a wound to heal, you need to get all these new cells and oxygen and all this good stuff to that wound. And it has to come through the blood.

8:52 Okay. The roads that the blood travels on, those are called vessels. Huh. So the blood vessels are the

8:58 highway to heal. Yes. Exactly. And sometimes people may not have great vessels. So it's sort of like that highway to heal has potholes in it and the blood that's trying to bring the healing to the wound, it like has trouble getting there.

9:14 Oh, got it. And when that happens, instead of a wound healing, the wound can slowly turn black, and that means the tissue is literally dying. So Diana, when they took off the cast, they realized that the wound wasn't healing right. Weeks had gone by and the wound looks worse and worse. Oh, is this her?

9:35 Mhm. Yeah. I called her up and I talked to her one afternoon. The wound just started oozing. It just looked infected. It looked nasty. So like a part of her body, a part of her leg is is is dying.

9:46 The medical term is called gang green. It looks like zombie tissue. Once you get there, is there any way to like resurrect the tissue around the wound?

9:55 No. Once it's dead, it's dead. Oh man. So this was starting to happen to Diana?

9:59 This was starting to happen to Diana. Scary. So what do you do? Well, if you want to make a wound healed,

10:07 there are some steps that we take as doctors. Now, to understand how our little Maggies will become a part of this story, we all need to briefly go to medical school. Everyone got their little white coats on?

10:18 Yep. Yep. Today's lesson, wound treatment 101. We're going to break it down into three simple steps.

10:25 Scrape clean. Ready? Let's heal. So, generally, the first thing you want to do is take a scalpel, which is like a surgeon's knife.

10:33 Scrape. You want to scrape away the dead flesh from the area to make room for the new tissue to grow instead.

10:40 Clean antibiotics, kill the bacteria to make sure what's left of the dead flesh doesn't spread.

10:47 Carefully changing the bandage every day. Wrap it up nice, real good, real great.

10:53 And if that doesn't work, which sometimes it doesn't, you amputate that part of the body. You just cut it off.

10:59 And And why do you have to do that? Because if you leave dead tissue on your body, it's just going to keep spreading.

11:07 So, what about our friend Diana? It was getting close. It was at that point I realized I'm in danger of getting a bone infection which could cause them to amputate my foot.

11:16 And Diana's just like, are you kidding me? You're going to cut off my foot? Like, no. So, she is panicking. Is there anything else we could do?

11:24 So, she's like taking matters into her own hands as she's sick. Yeah. Researching, calling around. And that is when she comes across Maggie's.

11:33 Like, have you ever heard of therapy dogs? Yeah, sure. Like a dog in a little vest that's trained to help soothe your anxiety or whatever,

11:40 right? And you could have like a pony or a cat. But Diana had just stumbled across a doctor offering therapy maggots.

11:47 Okay. What? Yes. Not to make your mind or heart feel better, but actually to help your wound.

11:53 Okay. How on earth that could work? after this break. Terrestrials is back. We're in a medical mystery. Diana's wound is getting worse, but she's just found out that baby flies, aka Maggie's, could maybe help her. Right. And as Dr. A explains this belief about these little creatures being helpful to us goes back thousands of years.

12:33 In ancient times, people used to use maggots for wounds. H in fact, there's references to it in Egyptian literature.

12:41 Huh. Wow. And in ancient Aboriginal tribes in Australia, that is part of their oral tradition. They would say, "Yeah, we use maggots. That's that's what's been told to me by my dad and my dad's dad and my dad's dad's dad." And we've just

12:55 The list went on and on. From Central America to Syria to Myanmar, there were indigenous healers and doctors throughout history who treated patients by putting or leaving maggis in their wounds. Including a surgeon from France who was treating soldiers during a time of war. He found soldiers injuries that had maggots would do better than the injuries that didn't have maggots. And he wrote that down in his journal. H fascinating. And eventually this long history of people using maggots to treat wounds, it came to the attention of a doctor in California named Dr. Ron Sherman who wondered, "Wait, have I been trained all wrong?"

13:34 Right? Are maggots in wounds really parasites or is this a symbiotic relationship?

13:40 Good for both the human and the maggot? Yeah, like we help them and they help us.

13:45 H And this is the doctor that Diana stumbled across. the doctor offering therapy maggots to heal her wound because by this point in the story Dr. on had done experiments in particular one really big experiment.

14:02 He takes 100 patients. They all have these bad wounds that are like Diana's like they're not healing well.

14:09 So for all hundred of them they're going to do the regular scrape clean wrap treatment. Scraping away dead tissue disinfecting with antibiotics

14:17 and wrapping it up with a bandage. Very good. But for half of them he's actually going to put maggots into their wounds. Woo!

14:24 I don't know how he convinced 50 people, but he did it. He takes some special sterilized medical maggots. He sprinkles them in each patient's wound and then covers it with a bandage. And then every couple days, he takes the maggis out, leaves the wound alone for a couple days, puts some new maggis in, wraps it up again. And they just keep doing this. They keep repeating the cycle.

14:44 I didn't know how I was going to respond to them. This is our friend Diana again, who ended up going for it after her injury wasn't healing. She reached out to Dr. run and ordered up some Maggis.

14:54 I didn't know if it was going to make me vomit. I didn't know if it was going to make me pass out and dizzy.

14:59 Does it hurt to have maggots like chewing away at your wound? That sounds really painful.

15:05 Not necessarily. What you do feel is them getting bigger and they wiggle. You can feel them wiggling around

15:11 inside of your wound. Pow! Pow! I am batting back disgust with curiosity. So, what did Dr. Ron find after doing this incredibly fascinating experiment

15:24 without maggots about half of the wounds were getting healed. Five out of 10 not great

15:32 but then with the 50 people who got maggots 80% of their wounds were healing. Wow. Eight out of 10. So most of them that's a lot better.

15:41 And I have these pictures here. You could see look at this foot. Oh man. There's like a lot of like black tissue around.

15:48 Yeah. Yeah. So, they've put maggots in and you could see every week the foot gets less gross looking. It's starting to look more pink. It's starting to look better. And by the end, the foot heals up.

16:00 So, they're like stopping the spread of that dead tissue. They were healing really fast, which is exactly what happened with Diana.

16:07 After the first dose, it was almost 75% gone. And that was in just 48 hours. Wa!

16:14 Yep. And today, her leg. I can wear stiletto high heel shoes. I ride a motorcycle. I can It's perfect.

16:22 So, has she completely returned to full health? Yeah, that's incredible. Go Diana. That it was brave to do that.

16:29 Absolutely. But a question still remained. How? How were the Maggis healing the wounds better than doctors?

16:37 Are you ready to like put yourself in the mind of a maggot? Let's shrink on down and enjoy the ride.

16:42 All right. So, we all now know that maggots are just baby flies, right? What do babies like? They like milk.

16:49 But just like babies who like milk, well, me as a maggot, I don't want to be chewing on solid stuff. I want liquid.

16:56 I'm a baby. I'm a baby who eats dead flesh. So, they actually have these digestive enzymes in their bellies,

17:03 just like we do. Enzymes, little chemicals that then they spit out of their bellies onto the human's wound. When the enzymes mix with this dead flesh, it dissolves it basically like a smoothie. Yeah, I know, gross. But that liquefying process, it's kind of magic because it lets them clean away the dead flesh even better than a scalpel.

17:26 And it doesn't stop there. Remember those three steps of wound care? Mhm. Scrape, clean, wrap.

17:32 Mhm. Just watch how these maggots do each step better. First up, scrape the maggie. scrape away the dead flesh from the area.

17:40 Oh, just like a scalpel. An even gentler scalpel. Plus, they can squirm their little bodies into places a scalpel can't even reach.

17:47 Ooh, precision wiggle. Next up, clean antibiotics. They actually also have their own special antibiotic in their bellies. It's called Lucifens.

17:58 Wait, why would they have an antibiotic in their belly? The maggots don't want to get infected by bacteria either. So, they're just protecting themselves, killing all the bacteria to make it safe for them, too.

18:09 Is lucensin something that like doctors have in their medicine cabinets? No, we never heard of it before.

18:14 Wo. It's like their own special way to disinfect. Yeah. And finally, you remember that third step?

18:19 Wrap. Carefully changing the bandage every day. Now, maggots, they aren't becoming bandages, right? But one of the reasons doctors wrap wounds is to keep the area moist so new tissue can grow. And it turns out maggots stimulate growth in their own special way. Remember the the reason the wound wasn't healing in the first place is cuz those wounds didn't have great blood flow,

18:41 right? There might be like potholes on the highway to heal. So somehow these maggots are stimulating the body to produce more and better vessels to the wound.

18:57 What? So the blood can flow and then also heal the wound that way. Yeah. Somehow these maggots are communicating with the human body saying

19:05 build those. Okay. The Maggis get a round of applause. They get the highest honors. This is incredible.

19:17 Crazy, right? Yes. And this is way better than a surgeon. When a surgeon's cutting away things, maybe sometimes they leave a little dead tissue. Maybe sometimes they cut away some living tissue. But these maggots are perfect. They only want the dead tissue and they go into every little nook and cranny and find all of it without hurting any of the living tissue. They really are healers.

19:38 Yeah. I do wonder like if it was known in all these places like ancient Egypt and Central America and Australia and Asia, like if it was known, I wonder when it got unknown, when it got forgotten, when it turned from, as you say, symbiosis and healing to like utter disgust.

20:00 I think we're living in the height of the era of cleanliness. Hm. It's only been in the past couple hundred years that we realize that being clean, using antibiotics can really help us. But now we look at everything that's a little dirty as bad. And we just want to be completely rid of any little bugs, worms, and microbes.

20:22 I think we've lost something because there are certainly some bad bugs, but there's also some good ones. So, in this desire to be clean and pristine, we've kind of washed away some of our our friends.

20:35 I think we've gone a little bit too far. And I think over the next 50 years, we're going to start working our way back to seeing some of them as our friends again.

20:50 It's a lovehate relationship. the way I let you under my skin. But when the wound won't heal, I'm going to fight my fear. I'm going to let you in. Yeah, I'm going to let you in. I was hurt. It was hard. I was falling apart. But you wound your way into my life. And you said goodbye. I was hurt. It was hard. I was falling apart. But you worked your way into my life.

21:25 And then you said goodbye, baby. I never wanted it to end up this way. Now I'm trying to heal from my past mistakes.

21:36 Sticks and stones break the skin. Yeah, accidents happen. But I can't heal this affliction. When I feel the infection,

21:43 it's a lovehate relationship. The way I let you under my skin, but when the wound won't heal, I'm going to fight my fear. Going to let you in. Yeah, I'm going to let you in. I was hurt. It was hard. I was falling apart. But you worked your way into my life. And you said goodbye. I was hurt. It was hard. I was falling apart. But you found your way into my life.

22:18 And then you said goodbye fly. Alan Ginsky everybody and there is nothing else cool about.

22:29 What's that? Excuse me. I have a question. Me two. Me three. Me four. The badgers.

22:36 Listeners with badgering questions for the expert. You ready? Okay. Hi, my name is Lyra. I am 5 years old. Um, what animal will make the best ER doctor?

22:49 I honestly think a puppy dog would be the best ER doctor because you got to be very curious and go up to everyone and sniff around and look at things. That's how you take care of people. You don't have to be really smart, but you have to be really curious and you have to be really interested in people. And that's how you can make good diagnoses in the ER.

23:07 Question for me, Lulu 42. Uh, can anyone get medical maggots now? Like to treat a wound?

23:13 Yeah, Dr. Ron started a business selling medical maggots, now called Monarch Labs. He actually got his wife to help him.

23:19 We run a lowcost operation. Is that him? That's him. They started breeding these medical maggots. So now if a doctor wants one, he'll ship it out to them.

23:29 And it's just like maggots in a bag. It's just maggots in a bag. When we receive a request, we can usually send the maggots out same day for overnight delivery.

23:39 Air mail. Yeah, because they're going to turn into flies otherwise. Right. You're racing time.

23:46 Fly me to the wound. Let me snack among the scars. Okay. Alan. Oh, I got to love Alan.

23:55 Hi, I'm Joe, age 37. Uh, what's the least urgent thing anyone's ever come into the emergency room for?

24:02 Oh, I have a really good one. Okay. I once had a girl come in because her arms had turned purple.

24:09 Oh, that feels legit, right? She was like, I'm freaking out. I don't know what's going on. And I'm looking at her arms and I was like, all right, were you wearing anything purple? And she's like, yeah, I do have a purple sweater. So then I just took an alcohol swab. I started rubbing her skin and it just came off. It was just ink from this purple sweater. Her face turned red. She was so embarrassed.

24:33 Wow. From purple to red. Yeah. Hi, my name is Phineas. I am 7 years old. What is the most useful tool to an ER doctor?

24:44 M a pen. A pen. So I can remember things. Oh. Oh. The most important part is listening to the patient and taking notes.

24:52 I think so. Well, that's very beautiful. Hi, my name is George. Does a kiss really heals a boo boo?

25:02 Does a kiss really heal a boo boo? 100% kisses do do help boooos. The reason I say that is because when you believe something's going to be better, it often actually does help.

25:13 And that's called the placebo effect. Wow. And so it's important to think that kisses do help boooos.

25:19 I love that. M hi, this is Anna, producer bud. I'm 31 years old. My question is, what's your favorite organ?

25:26 The liver. The liver has to basically filter and detoxify every single thing that goes into your body. Your liver has to figure out for each thing, like, how do I turn it from what it is into something that's useful for you?

25:41 Okay. And then, can you improvise a song about that favorite organ? Should I bring a guitar over?

25:46 Mhm. Okay. Hold on. This is going to be terrible. All right, let's see. Can you help me? I'll do a line. You do a line or something.

25:52 Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. Okay. Okay. We'll co-improvise. Okay. I like a liver. As an organ, it makes me shiver.

26:05 Because of livers, I live. Because of livers, I live. There we go. Okay. Beautiful. Well, that was great.

26:17 Oh my god. I think that is where we got to leave it. I live terrestrials was created by me, Lulu Miller with WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by the magnificent Alan Ginsky with sound design so good I'm bugging uh by Mera Bert Winonic. Our executive producer is Sarah Samach. Our team also includes Anna Gonzalez, Tanya Chala, and Joe Plord. Factecking by Natalie Middleton.

26:47 I like a shiver because of I live. Huge thank you to Dr. Aver Mitra. Uh if you liked his storytelling, he tells a ton more medical stories over at Radio Lab. Just look for Averir Mitra and Radio Lab and you'll find like five or six of them. There's there's some about vultures, some about lead, some about breast milk, some about CPR. They are all an incredible time. Uh, exciting news. Next season, we want to do a season that is entirely based on listener suggestions. The animals, the plants, the creatures you want episodes about. Uh, and we are just starting to collect that data. So, to submit your episode, go to the link in the show feed. It's called Terrestrial Survey.

27:42 And you can click tell us what animal you want to hear at Terrestrials about. Might not be maggots. Maybe you do want a maggots. Maybe you want a maggots part too. I don't know.

27:50 Because of support for terrestrials is provided by the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you. Special thanks to Jamie Albreight, Kid Advisor Kai, uh, and Mama Fly Maya. Congrats for making it all the way to the end of an episode about using maggots to treat wounds. You know what they say, time flies when you're having flies. All right, enough out of me. See you in a couple spins on this dirty old planet of art. Bye.

Questions about this episode

What is "Maggies: The Healing Power of Baby Flies | Terrestrials Podcast" about?

The piece explores the unconventional medical use of maggots, the larval stage of flies, in wound healing and infection treatment. ER doctor Avier Mitra shares his insights on how these creatures, often considered disgusting, can play a crucial role in saving lives through their unique healing properties.

What is mentioned in this Radiolab episode?

69 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including maggots, Terrestrials, antibiotics, baby flies, ER doctor, disgust. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Maggies: The Healing Power of Baby Flies | Terrestrials Podcast"?

The episode runs 28 min; the transcript is about 5,011 words in 148 timestamped sections.

More from Radiolab

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 15, 2025.