Overtime with Bill Maher: Ben Shapiro, Tim Alberta (HBO)

What this episode is about

The discussion addresses the controversy surrounding a West Point alumni group’s decision to cancel an award for Tom Hanks, amid accusations of him being "woke" from figures like Donald Trump. Panelists Ben Shapiro and Tim Alberta debate Hanks's contributions to the portrayal of American service members and the implications of such cancellations in the current political climate.

Key takeaways

• Tom Hanks: a hero in Hollywood, but politics turns awards into battlegrounds, highlighting our polarized society.
• Editing interviews: CBS takes a bold step towards transparency, yet can we trust news outlets to uphold this promise?
• 9/11 taught us cultural projection is a fantasy; democracy isn't a universal truth, but a Western construct.
• Saving Private Ryan elevates Hanks, yet political bias risks erasing achievements in service; who decides 'deserving' recipients?
• Trust in media dwindles; with only 15% believing in TV news, is honesty the new currency in journalism?

Who speaks in this episode?

• Bill Maher (Host) · 7 min speaking
• Ben Shapiro (Host) · 11 min speaking
• Tim Alberta (Guest) · 2 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Tom Hanks, Ben Shapiro, Lions and Scavengers, Saving Private Ryan
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Face the Nation, Barbara Bush
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Lions and Scavengers, Ben Shapiro, Zora Mamani
4. 12:00 – 15:00: Kamal Harris
5. 15:00 – 17:40: Kamal Harris

Notable quotes from "Overtime with Bill Maher: Ben Shapiro, Tim Alberta (HBO)"

• And a staff fighter for the Atlantic in Alberta and he's the Daily Wire co-founder. His new book is called Lions and Scavengers. Ben Shapiro.

  about Ben Shapiro · at 0:02

• All give the guy a break. what does the panel think of CBS News announcing that its Sunday show, Face the Nation, will no longer edit recorded interviews with newsmakers? Okay, this is obviously coming from some pressure from Trump.

  about Face the Nation · at 3:01

• Into Afghanistan or Iraq is because they're just like us. They have the same priorities we do. You President Bush gave a speech where he said, Every human heart seeks freedom.…

  about Barbara Bush · at 5:12

• Rates and importing the inifat so it's not my kind of candidate either but I must say reading your book which is really interesting I mean it's not quite the page turner Charlie's is but you know but there was it did put me in mind of two.

  about Lions and Scavengers · at 8:35

• I don't know how she could have gotten to get a message out. But what does the panel think of Kla Harris's admission that it was reckless to let Joe and Jill Biden decide on his re-election bid?

  about Kamal Harris · at 15:03

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Ben Shapiro — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at 0:06
  Interview subject discussing his 'lions vs scavengers' framework and commenting on current political/media controversies.
• Tom Hanks — Person · Referenced public figure (case study in culture/politics) · 3 mentions · first at 0:17
  Used as an example in a discussion about West Point canceling an award and partisan/culture-war reactions to celebrities.
  What does the panel think about a West Point alumni group cancelling an award it was planning to give to Tom Hanks?
• Kamal Harris — Person · Referenced political figure (book/controversy subject) · 2 mentions · first at 14:42
  Discussed in relation to a new book ('107 days') and an admission about the Biden re-election decision-making process.
• Barbara Bush — Person · Referenced historical/political figure · 1 mention · first at 5:15
  Cited for a post-9/11 worldview claim ('Every human heart seeks freedom') in a critique of democracy-promotion assumptions in Iraq/Afghanistan.
• Zora Mamani — Person · Referenced political figure (example of 'scavenger') · 1 mention · first at 8:09
  Used by Shapiro as an illustrative example of a 'scavenger' archetype in his framework; described as a (former) rapper and New York politician.
  It maybe in politics it seems like his forte is destroying the real estate market in New York increasing crime rates and importing the inifat so it's not my kind of candidate either but I must say reading your book which is.
• Charlie Sheen — Person · Referenced celebrity (comparative example) · 1 mention · first at 2:39
  Mentioned as a contrast point in a discussion about whether to revoke awards from entertainers for political/cultural reasons.
  Listen, when it comes to actors, Charlie is like the most sane actor there is.

Books & papers

• Lions and Scavengers — Book · Primary recommendation · 3 mentions · first at 0:06
  Ben Shapiro's new book discussed as a framework for understanding societal roles and behaviors.

Media & podcasts

• Face the Nation — Media · Case study · 1 mention · first at 3:13
  Discussed in the context of media transparency and editing practices.
• Saving Private Ryan — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 0:45
  Mentioned as an example of Tom Hanks' positive portrayal of American service members.
  American service member blah which is so true. I mean when you think about I mean my favorite movie of all time is Saving Private Ryan all time.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 All right, here we are. He is an author and a staff fighter for the Atlantic in Alberta and he's the Daily Wire co-founder. His new book is called Lions and Scavengers. Ben Shapiro. Okay, here are the questions from the people. What does the panel think about a West Point alumni group cancelling an award it was planning to give to Tom Hanks? Oh, yes. I have all this information on this. An actor that Trump has called woke and destructive. Yes. Well, let me read you. I actually have the uh they were going to give Tom Hanks an award from West Point uh the Sylvaner award. It said Tom Hanks has done more for the positive portrayal of the American service member blah blah blah which is so true. I mean when you think about I mean my favorite movie of all time is Saving Private Ryan all time.

0:50 But I mean he's played you know from the earth to the moon. I mean Greyhound. Yeah. I mean, a million things where he's he's a patriot for the military alone. I mean, he used to be a big part of bringing these honor flights of vets to BC every year. Uh, it's well, Trump says we don't need destructive woke recipients getting our cherished American rewards. So, I, you know, it's just so typical of how things are probably not going to get better in this country because it's like, wait, Tom Hanks, oh, we forgot he's on the blue team. him.

1:24 No, do not like. Okay, I mean disapprove. By the way, I will also say this. I didn't like it when Tom Hanks went on Saturday Night Live and did a sketch where he was wearing a MAGA hat and wouldn't shake hands with a black person. Not helpful. I disagree. I thought it was a great sketch because it was a continuation of the earlier sketch where he's Doug. But you think that's a fair portrayal of mega? I mean, no, that's not what the point was though, Bill. The point was that that sketch was meant to show that Doug in the continuation of the original sketch that Doug on Jeopardy as a workingclass rural white guy with his MAGA cap on actually had a tremendous amount in common with the black panelists that he was competing against. And that was the entire the entire idea of the skit was that actually whatever why would he not shake and that's the moment that that Bill's objecting.

2:11 No, I understand it's well it's Saturday Night Live. I mean I don't know that we should overthink it necessarily. No, but I I can totally see why that would piss them off. I think in the spirit of the sketch, it was plain enough, but it's a pretty volatile area to to be saying that, you know, it's one thing to have differences about how we should handle racial matters in this country to take it to that level. I I just think it's not helpful. I mean, listen, when it comes to actors, Charlie is like the most sane actor there is.

2:42 Charlie Sheen, I think so. Have you met many of the actors? Yes. He may be one of the more sane ones now and so I'm not going to start removing prizes from people because right but I mean other than that Tom Hanks you know impeccable record of of service and and also a genius actor and you know you survived on that island all those days all give the guy a break. Uh, what does the panel think of CBS News announcing that its Sunday show, Face the Nation, will no longer edit recorded interviews with newsmakers? Okay, this is obviously coming from some pressure from Trump.

3:21 Christine Gnome was on there and complained about, you know, you edit me. I mean, I don't think this came from a good place, but as someone who's been edited, it's a good result. Honestly, it's a good result. I can't be too mad at it because I know that feeling of like or even in a print interview where they just print they don't print the question they asked you, right? They just print part of your answer and they can make you look completely different than what really went when it went went on. But I don't know if this is the answer, but Oh, well look, I mean Gallup this summer uh in the most recent uh survey they do on institutional trust, I think it was television news was down to 15% among all Americans. So any step you can take towards transparency, it's not going to hurt. Right.

4:02 Right. Yeah. Okay. Um let's ask about 911 because that was yesterday and um a lot of people are too young to even remember and so it's not really a big deal to them, but it was a big deal for the country. Um we're almost a quarter century out from there. You mentioned it during the show like we didn't handle it right going into Iraq. I I mean that's my view. Some people maybe think they we did and maybe in the future there'll be revisionist things and oh boy what we missed it at the time. What a great idea that was. I don't think so. But I mean Afghanistan is well on its way to being in the nth century. So there's $2 trillion well spent. I mean what what what do we what lessons do we do we have from a quarter century away?

4:56 I mean the the number one lesson which actually was the lesson of 9/11 which we we should have learned at the time is that we have in the west a capacity to project our own values onto other countries and other people that is just false. We the reason that many people thought you could just project democracy into Afghanistan or Iraq is because they're just like us. They have the same priorities we do. You President Bush gave a speech where he said, "Every human heart seeks freedom." And so, well, does every human heart seek freedom as like the ultimate objective in the way that we see it? And the answer, of course, is no. And we should have known that from 9/11 when people flew planes into buildings and killed 3,000 people. It turns out that cultural differences make an awfully big difference. And we ought to know that going into conflict, and it ought to shape our our warf fighting goals and

5:38 our foreign policy more generally. I just talked about institutional trust a minute ago. I I think maybe the the great lesson that we've learned or perhaps not learned is that trust really really matters. If you think about Iraq, if you think about Afghanistan, if you think about really in the decade that follows uh Hurricane Katrina, the financial collapse, we have all of these moments now that plot points and as we go along, we see the ways in which by the time we get to the CO 19 pandemic that collapse of trust across the board, confidence across the board in all of these governing institutions in this country. I mean, higher education, the media, law enforcement, government, Major League Baseball, for crying out loud. I mean, Americans have reached a conclusion that no one is looking out for them and that they can't trust any of these people in charge. And I actually think that in some way we can

6:25 trace a lot of that back to 911. Okay. Ben, is Trump a scavenger or a lion? This is your book. Well, first explain ba basically what you saying when you're talking about divided into scavengers and lions. So, this is not a left right thing. And and one of the things I really tried to do in the book is is not use the words right or left because I don't actually think that the division between lions and scavengers is predominantly political. Uh I think that lions are people lions are the good guys, right? Yes. Uh lions are the people who want to build and scavengers are the people who want to tear down who who see the institutions of society as things that need to be predominantly removed.

6:59 They're threats to them. They are violent. Luji Manion is a good example of somebody who's a scavenger. And again, I I don't think that it's predominantly about politics. I even think that we all inside of us have have both those tendencies, right? Sometimes you get up in the morning, you're ready to tackle the day and be productive and do something good and sometimes you're bitching about the world and you want to tear things down. And so when I look at political figures, I try to say, are they more of one than the other? And usually it's a combination. So I see aspects that that I think are lionike in in President Trump. I mean, obviously I think that his policies on on foreign policy are are excellent. I think they're much more aggressive than than a lot of people thought they would be in a lot of ways. He didn't quite get it how hard it would be to solve wars though.

7:39 Um well I mean that's true but he the thing about President Trump just as as a politician and this really isn't the lion scavenger point is that he is heterodox but responsive is the way that I would put it. He tries things and then because he is not actually ideological if they fail he tends to untry to say the least. Yes he's definitely no he's definitely flexible. She's pregnant which is not always a bad thing at all. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, the the the mane is very lionlike. But I must say Zora Mamani would be an example of a scavenger. Somebody who's a complete lifelong loser who has he was a rapper with less successful record than I have as a rapper. That's not even a joke.

8:19 That's real. Well, we Okay. All of us in our 20s try things that don't work out. Do we become mayor after doing nothing? Literally nothing. Obviously, his his forte was not in rap. it maybe in politics it seems like his forte is destroying the real estate market in New York increasing crime rates and importing the inifat so it's not my kind of candidate either but I must say reading your book which is really interesting I mean it's not quite the page turner Charlie's is but you know uh but um there was it did put me in mind of two authors that I don't know if you would want to be compared to Nichi and Anne Rand So I quote both of them critically actually in the book particularly nichi.

9:03 Yeah but I mean it's the theory is a little nian. Yes. I mean in the sense that there are people who are more creative and build they ought to be rewarded and that people who tear things down ought to be not rewarded. But I think that's also baseline morality. I mean he also went into the fact that you know he or the fact his theory about Christianity is really a religion of losers because you know you're saying I don't want this world so what I didn't do good in this world my kingdom in the next world the meek shall inherit the earth right that's when God says when I die you'll inherit the earth yeah that's that that is his obvious critique of of religion is that he basically says that biblical religion upholds the the virtue of poverty and failure as opposed to upholding the wrong. That's his critique. I think that's an unfair critique of religion.

9:49 But I do think that, you know, virtue, one of the things that I would hope that people who believe biblically, and I know, you know, that's not everybody, but I hope that good people who believe biblically, which is not everybody who believes biblically, believes that virtue should lead to better results in life than non virtue. That that to me is one as a believing Jew, that is one of the central points of the book of Deuteronomy, right? You're supposed to choose life so you and your children shall live. doesn't mean they have to agree with everything in Deuteronomy or Leviticus.

10:17 But that's not going to make Billy. I know, but like but how how could but I that's always such a silly argument because if God wrote the book, how could there be things we don't agree with? It either got to be perfect because it's written by you know who, or it's just not perfect and written by people, which it was obviously, and it's full of nonsense and wickedness and things that are everything but virtuous. Bill, you and I agree on morality. I would say like 87% morality 87 but not from the Bible. I have a question. Why?

10:47 Because the because it's for slavery. Because it's okay with why why do you and I agree on morality like 87.5%. I'm a religious Jew. You're an atheist. Why do we agree on those things? I'll tell I mean I can give you my answer. Yeah please. Because we probably grew up a few miles from each other in a western society that has several thousand years of biblical history behind it. And so you can think that you hit that triple and you formed your own morality, but the reality is you were born morally on third base. No, we we okay we we got we got that morality from the enlightenment which was an anti-religious movement. The founding fathers, they weren't religious people.

11:28 They were deists. They weren't particularly Christy. Thomas Thomas Jefferson used the morality of the Bible when he was ripping all the miracles out of the Bible. Yes. He literally wrote a version of the Bible without the miracles. I mean that is last time I was here and you were you were talking about all of Jesus's teachings and how this was really radical new stuff right and how and how it changed the world basic philosophy. Yes. And and how and how without that I mean I think it's worth understanding that what the pivot point in history when we talk about Judeo-Christian ethics but but more specifically Christian ethics what a turning point in history that represented for within the Roman Empire and beyond in terms of in terms of medicine in terms of care for the widow and the orphan. much of what we would consider to be sort of good moral ethical behavior was not in fact a commonplace or mainstream thing several

12:12 centuries ago and so I think to point some of that why do we still do it why do we still admire it you know I mean because cut flowers die meaning that if the if the flower is the result of the root and then you cut the flower you can live on with a secular humanistic moral be a moral person be a good person but it does not systemically maintain if there's no actual outgrowth from a basis of belief that this is fundamentally demanded of you by a higher power because you can't get from atheism to reductive morality just by pure reason.

12:42 Right? Even every atheist will will acknowledge this that that the values that you believe are not things that can just be reason to because they assume things that are not an evidence like the inherent value of humanity. I mean, we're pieces of meat wandering through space. What's the inherent value of that? These are all religious faith-based premises. You don't have to believe in God to believe in those things, but they are logical jumps. They are leaps of faith is what we would call that in religion. And so at least acknowledging that recognizes that we're all living in a world of faith whether you believe in God or not.

13:07 I'm just saying the book the wellspring from where you're getting this morality is so deeply flawed. Even if it was just the slavery thing and it's not just that. I mean if you rape a woman it's a property crime. It it's we're talking about bronze age people who had a whole different way of looking at things which was not as advanced as we are. And if and it's like well you know we have these it's like saying well ju jump in the pool there's only one turd in there it's more like saying that as a religious person the basic idea is that God has to speak to humans of the time and then human beings have to apply their reason. This is why the relationship between reason and faith is not just you take it on faith and you do whatever the bible says. I mean this is why there's a developed oral tradition in Judaism or this is why there's a developed natural law tradition in Catholicism. I mean, the idea is that

13:56 it's an ad mixture of human reason and those faith-based principles. But here's here's the real question. If the sort of reasonable morality that you espouse is universal, then why is it not even remotely universal on planet Earth? Okay. It is only found in Christian-based societies. You will not find it unless it was grafted on later by, you know, us conquering some place. Christianbased. We you saying this with the Yamagon? Yes. Because Christian Yes. Because because Christians believe the first half of the Bible.

14:22 I'm working on them though. I'm working on that. Well, as you know, this is the point where I remind all Christians in my first of all, I appreciate all the attempts to convert me and yes, you get in infinity heaven points if you're the one who does it is what I have heard. All right, final question. Um, what does ah Kla Harris boy she does not have a lot of luck like this week her her book comes out she was trying to do the press and then of course all this news buried it. The book is called 107 days. Wink wink. That's all. It's all the time I had to win. Just 107 days.

14:57 If only there were 108. Yeah. Would have gotten there. And she only had a billion half dollars. I don't know how she could have gotten to get a message out. But what does the panel think of Kla Harris's admission that it was reckless to let Joe and Jill Biden decide on his re-election bid? Yes. This is the big uh takeaway from the book is that she says, Joe, we kept saying, she says like a mantra, it's their personal decision. And now she's saying after the fact, well actually it wasn't really just a personal decision.

15:27 It did have some effect on the country. What if there was an amendment to the Constitution, say like the 25th amendment that allowed the vice presidents of the United States and the other cabinet officials to recognize that the president was brain dead and actually do something about it? And what if you then just sat there and did nothing until Joe Biden had his head cave in basically on national television in a debate with Donald Trump and stare into the great m of death offcreen with a frozen grimace and then you still waited a month for him to drop out.

15:56 It wasn't that bad. It was It was a It was a Let's Let's not Let's not rewrite the history. It was a terrible debate performance from an elderly man. Excuse me. Excuse me. Who in the quiet of the Oval Office had not lost his marbles and was still able to make decisions among his staff. Okay. That's who we were dealing. Was he able to run? No. Was he able to do the job or bike? By the way, he was or bike. Yes. Well, we you don't you don't know if he lost his marbles because he doesn't know how many there were or many how many he had to find. Can I just say I like you know again this is why the country will never heal because nobody can ever no the tough thing about the Harris book right is that she writes this as though she was some backbench low-level staffer without agency.

16:54 It's I mean it's not dissimilar to what Mike Pence did during towards the end of the Trump presidency and then he comes after out after and says a shucks you know it's like you were the vice president of the United States. If it was reckless for him to do this madam vice president did you not have a responsibility to the country to say something about it. Yeah. I mean Trump does the same thing last week he tweeted out I guess we've lost India to China. It's like who did that? Who did that? All right. Thank you guys.

17:21 Thank you audience. You are great.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Overtime with Bill Maher: Ben Shapiro, Tim Alberta (HBO)"?

Bill Maher (Host), Ben Shapiro (Host), Tim Alberta (Guest).

What is "Overtime with Bill Maher: Ben Shapiro, Tim Alberta (HBO)" about?

The discussion addresses the controversy surrounding a West Point alumni group’s decision to cancel an award for Tom Hanks, amid accusations of him being "woke" from figures like Donald Trump. Panelists Ben Shapiro and Tim Alberta debate Hanks's contributions to the portrayal of American service members and the implications of such cancellations in the current political climate.

What is mentioned in this Real Time with Bill Maher episode?

9 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Ben Shapiro, Lions and Scavengers, Tom Hanks, Kamal Harris, Face the Nation, Saving Private Ryan. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Overtime with Bill Maher: Ben Shapiro, Tim Alberta (HBO)"?

The episode runs 18 min; the transcript is about 3,572 words in 28 timestamped sections.

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