Dakota Meyer: Life Beyond the Medal of Honor REVEALED

What this episode is about

Dakota Meyer, the only living Marine recipient of the Medal of Honor, reflects on his military experiences, emphasizing that his story is one of leadership failure rather than heroism. He shares insights on the importance of accountability, the impact of hypocrisy, and the daily commitment required to live authentically.

Key takeaways

• Dakota Meyer redefines heroism: leadership is not just about medals, but accountability.
• Hypocrisy is an obstacle; true change starts with authentic stories, not empty accolades.
• Good people are silent while the uninformed dominate; elevate authentic voices to reshape narratives.
• In a world of complex communication, leaders must evolve beyond simplistic directives.
• Leadership isn't generational; it's a responsibility that today’s leaders are failing to uphold.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Ryan Hawk (Host) · 27 min speaking
• Dakota Meyer (Guest) · 41 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Dakota Meyer, Operation Redwing
2. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Into the Fire

Notable quotes from "Dakota Meyer: Life Beyond the Medal of Honor REVEALED"

• The only living Marine to receive the Medal of Honor. Please welcome Sergeant Dakota Meyer.

  about Dakota Meyer · at 0:08

• Genjal Valley. The Genesis Valley is in a place called the Kunar Province. most people know the Kunar Province from a very prominent battle called Operation Redwing, which was, the lone survivor, the movie, all that came from there.

  about Operation Redwing · at 8:52

• Yeah. Yeah. well, I was rereading Into the Fire, which is an insanely well-ritten book that seems like a movie. The crazy thing is it's your life. and so I would imagine,.

  about Into the Fire · at 53:59

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Dakota Meyer — Person · Main guest · 1 mention · first at 0:10
  Central interview subject describing his Medal of Honor actions in Afghanistan, his leadership philosophy, and post-service mental health recovery.

Books & papers

• Into the Fire — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 54:03
  Dakota Meyer's book about his experiences, mentioned as an insanely well-written account of his life.

Places & events

• Operation Redwing — Event · Referenced historical event · 1 mention · first at 9:00
  Mentioned as a prominent battle in the Kunar Province, providing context for the dangerous environment discussed in the episode.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 I I should not be a Medal of Honor recipient. It was not a story of heroism. It's an absolute story of leadership failure at its best.

0:08 The only living Marine to receive the Medal of Honor. Please welcome Sergeant Dakota Meyer.

0:14 A true American hero. Leaders don't want to assume responsibility anymore. And so, I mean, I had to go against orders.

0:22 Did you think you were going to die? No, I knew I was. I know the stakes are high. I know what the consequences of failure feel like. The number one thing that's killing us right now, Ryan, and and this is it. It's hypocrisy. You don't just wake up and and do the hard thing. It starts every day. The only thing we owe the world is to be who we say we are.

0:42 This is the message literally everybody needs to hear what Dakota is saying. Heroes walk amongst us all the time. Dakota, man. It's um it's awesome to have you here on the Learning Leader Show. Welcome.

0:58 No, thank you so much. It's awesome to be here. First, man, I just want to say uh thank you for your service to our country, man. You're a true American hero. So, thank you very very much for that.

1:09 Oh, thank you. I I really appreciate that. I um I want to start with a story about when you were 11 years old. uh your dad um who the person who became your dad who you call Big Mike

1:22 uh encouraged you to enter a contest. Your school was holding a contest for the best public speaker in each grade. Can you tell me what happened next and what you learned from that time in your life?

1:36 Yeah, I mean there was a uh there was a a speech contest and um you know I entered the the I entered the contest. I I I think initially you had to write the speech anyways. I don't you know what I mean? I don't think that I think it was like a class requirement and then I entered it. My dad, you know, I did the typical me. I waited till the last minute to write it. My dad sit down and help me write the speech out and then um you know, he made me practice it over and over and over and then eventually like it was about a cow. Uh, I I wrote a speech about my cow and um I guess it like pulled the heartstrings and then next thing you know I'm I'm I'm competing and I I think I got second place. But um yeah, you know, speaking and and it was it was like a it was a weird moment. Uh and it's kind of crazy like looking back. It's crazy you brought that up that uh you know looking back how crazy it is that I hated public speaking

2:33 and I spent my whole life trying not to be seen by anybody. It's why I was a sniper and then now here I am having to go out and do public speaking 24/7.

2:44 What do you What do you think of it now? Uh, look, I I think that um I think I I don't necessarily like I I don't like talking about me, but what I like is is being able to share a story or to be able to give people hope, right? I mean, that that's what it comes down to. And it's it's not about me. It's not like I would, if it was up to me, I would go out in the middle of nowhere and I would have a flip phone and I wouldn't have internet or I wouldn't have anything and I would just stay out there by myself as long as I could. Um but but you know what I I I think there's a disconnect in this world today is good people aren't telling their stories and people who haven't done anything and people who shouldn't have credibility they are out there trying to tell their stories all the time in order to get credibility. You know the people with credibility and knowledge aren't sharing their stories and the people without it

3:43 they're out there trying to get knowledge and credibility by telling their stories. And so we've got to reverse it and we need more good people out there doing the second part because I think that look I think you have an obstacle that you face. I think there's a three-step phase to everything in life. You have an obstacle you face. You have to get through that obstacle and on the other side of it and become better from it. Right? That's the second piece. It's very very important. And then the third piece is you have to share it and how you got through that obstacle.

4:19 And that's kind of the circle of how you pass on wisdom. And isn't there something cool about what you learn both about yourself and just learn in general when you put yourself in the position of the storyteller of the teacher? You're trying to get really clear, right? You're trying to get really clear on what you think, what you believe, what the story is, what are the key learnings from it because you want to help other people, right? So, it seems like putting yourself in that position h how has that made you actually a wiser, better leader.

4:55 Yeah. Well, because like you know, your story doesn't matter if it doesn't help anybody or people don't listen. Mhm.

5:04 So it there's a lot to that piece of how you deliver it, you know, and you know, communication there's there's communication today especially is so it it's not straightforward anymore. Used to transmission was a a two factor piece, a transmit and receive and both of those had to happen. And today when you're looking at it, you have to be able to transmit it. You have to be able to say it, right? And then there's so many different factors of of diagnosing of what you meant, what you said, what they heard, what they received from it, what they thought you meant from it, and then turning around and making that into an action. Right? And so because people are smarter that's why because people are so so smart today I mean it's a human beings today this next generation hands down and that's why it's hard that's why leadership has got to evolve you know we have a big you know we don't have a trust me on this we don't have a

6:14 generational problem we have a leadership problem that's failing a generation and and and that is ultimately what you see going on in society today and now I'm thankful because I believe in the next six years seven years you know this this next generation is going to be so smart and they are they're they're figuring out truth and all these other things that they're going to be able to to to pass overcome this lack and this inability of terrible leaders that we have in in in the world today of of people right and so um you know so so whenever I'm able to go back and pass it on you know passing it on is like it's not about me it's about them and then once they like what the success to passing on knowledge is is when people get through it and you see them be successful. Like the real power and the real part of making your struggles worth it is when you see somebody else when you're able to help somebody else

7:08 get through that struggle and them become successful. Yeah. And I want to get to your story um because part of that story is what you just said, right? the fact that you've been willing to share some of the tough things that you've you've gone through. And I think that that I I look at your initial story that we're going to get to and I think, well, this dude is not even like real. He he's he's so heroic. He's got to be like a machine. Um to be willing to put yourself in danger over and over to save lives, literally save lots of lives.

7:47 and then afterwards to to really struggle with things mentally and then have the guts and the courage to share and to tell people about that I think um is is it is really really inspiring. So, if if you're okay with it, man, I would love uh I don't even know the right way to set this up. September 8th, 2009. You know, a lot of people know your story, but there are some who don't. Um, and I I would love if you are open to it, to talking about that day, setting it up, what happened, why why you responded the way you did. Um, I mean, there's just so many learnings to to to draw from from the heroics of that day.

8:34 Yeah. I mean, I I I won't I won't get into like the big details of it. I mean, that thing is is, you know, it's been told 50,000 times. And so, you know, you know, basically, we were I was on a team, an embedded training team. We lived with the Afghan National Army. Um, and we've been asked to come down and go and run a mission in a place called the Genjal Valley. The Genesis Valley is in a place called the Kunar Province. You know, most people know the Kunar Province from a very prominent battle called um uh Operation Redwing, which was, you know, the lone survivor, the the movie, all that came from there. Um but this was a this was a terrible place in that time frame. I mean, this place was one of the most deadly places on the planet at the time. And um I mean, there were multiple Medal of Honors that came out of there. I mean I mean literally when I got there and checked in on my base um you know Jared Monty had you

9:25 know they named the base after him and he had got a Medal of Honor in in the same area up there. And so you know we we were going in to run this mission in the Gall Valley. I had brought up some concerns. I had a team. I was on a four-man team. It was myself uh gunnery sergeant Aaron Kenneth Lieutenant Johnson and Doc Leighton. and then, you know, brought up some concerns about the mission going in that morning. And basically what we were supposed to do was go in and hold what's called a key leader engagement. And it was, you know, this is a typical thing that we did. It was a routine thing that we did of going in and building with the locals and and and going and like imagine a a town hall. It's kind of like a town hall. And so you go and you meet with the leaders and what can we do? How can we help you? what what are you know what are the security issues like what are you all facing you know just kind of

10:16 keeping a finger on the pulse in order to support them ultimately and so that was what this was supposed to be I didn't have a good feeling about it a because the planning b because I knew about this valley um and it was notorious for the level of violence that that they were always uh in you know bringing um I mean this was like an old school valley I mean this was not like like and they were fighters And so I brought up some concerns with the planning of the mission. I was taken out of the team and I was left with the vehicles. Uh they replaced me with a guy named Gunnery Sergeant Johnson. And um so we were going in that morning. We drove in parked and uh they got out and started walking into the valley. I could right off the bat see guys running up to the hills. And so that that was always a sign that they were going to their fighting positions. Um it's it's something that that typically happens.

11:09 And so, uh, my team had walked in basically to to an ambush. And so, um, you know, and it was normal like in the beginning, like any in any gunfight, like there's a lot of chaos in the beginning. It's it's it's no different than any problem you have in life. Like when a problem comes down the bat or comes down the, you know, the comes down the comes down the uh the shoot, right? Like we all emotionally have an emotional reaction to it of like, you know, what the hell? So it was kind of chaotic in the beginning like any gunfight and um but initially like or you know eventually you just you're you you know you you you just your training kicks in like you know okay well this is what I'm deal it's like it's like again in life like you know you just start doing what you got to do to get through it and that's that's what it is and so you know gunfighting is very simple you know you have to figure out where they're at you

12:02 have to figure out where you're at and then you figure out what you've got to get rid of them. And that's that's ultimately what you you you do in a gunfight. It's a very very simple um that's a very simple uh thing to do. So um I think the first sign that I knew how bad it was was when you started hearing the radio traffic and requesting for, you know, all the assets that we had been promised going in there uh that you can normally rely on in other places such as air, such as mortars, you know, all the support elements that are in place in order to to give you backup even even all the way down to a you know, quick reaction force which is a a platoon. that's sitting back waiting to, you know, if you need to amplify, right?

12:49 Reinforcements is what you would call it on the tactical level. So, um, they started calling for all these things and, um, they just it just seemed like they weren't there that day. So, eventually, uh, I hear Lieutenant Johnson come over the radio and he starts to call in a support artillery mission. And what his goal was with them being the closest to the village, he said they were pinned down and he'd made that clear and he wanted to put rounds between him and the village. And so um what he got his response was after he gave the format that you call in artillery was it's too close to the village. there have been a rule of engagement that have been put in place which if you don't know what a rule of engagement is it's basically a policy that states what is acceptable what's not and and you know what the parameters are of of what you're doing right so it basically a law um and so they put a

13:49 rule of engagement in that you couldn't fire munitions within a certain radius of a village um so they told him no and he said if you don't give me these rounds right now we're going to die and it was uh they said, "We'll try your best." And so it was at that point that I knew that we were going to have to figure this situation out on our own. So myself and my driver uh uh Staff Sergeant Rodriguez Chavez, which is an incredible guy, he he we drove in um and you know, we made four or five trips and you know, each time we were evacuating out the wounded, uh injured.

14:28 And on the first trip in though, I heard Kenneth come over Lieut or um Gunny Kneovit come over the radio and he stated um he stated that he would that that there was he needed a medevac. And so that told me that somebody had been injured and he said that uh so he started to give the grid and eventually he got cut off. And so uh you know we did that for another five hours and five or six hours and finally located their bodies.

14:56 Wow. So there's there's so much to the story in regards to the support wasn't there that was supposed to be there. That tells me that's a a leadership problem.

15:08 And then also an ownership of the problem, you taking ownership over somebody else's problem in order to try to save your teammates's lives. Um, can you walk me through just your mindset and the decisions you made to put yourself in harm's way over and over again in order to be there for your teammates?

15:29 Yeah, I think as a leader, um, look, you don't have to have a title just to be a leader. So, first off, um, leaders are just people, too. And you can lead from anywhere in an organization, in a position. Leadership comes in many forms. And so what I'll say is is yes, it was 100% I should not be a Medal of Honor recipient. It was not a story of heroism. It was it's an absolute story of leadership failure at its best.

15:59 Um it's ultimately what it was. I mean in every aspect of it. And it wasn't just one single leader failure. It was it was a multitude of what you're seeing today in leaders which is a um nobody wants like it is responsibility hot potato. That's what you see across why all these organizations that's why organizations are having culture problems is this was you know this was that typical piece of nobody wants to leaders don't want to assume responsibility anymore. majority of them don't. And so, I mean, I had to go against orders to go in, right? I mean, I requested three or four times. I was told no each time and I just did it because it was the right thing to do.

16:40 And I think that what it ultimately comes down to is what is a leader's loyalty? Where does their loyalty lie? Is it in the people that trust them to lead them and to protect them or is it in the organization in order for themselves to keep getting promoted? Where does it lie? And I think that everybody, every leader has got to identify that right off the bat. They have got to identify that and state that right off the bat. What's more important? The betterment of their people they're trusted to lead or them keeping like do you want to do what's right or keep your job? Because they don't coexist all the time. And no, neither one both cannot be your number one priority.

17:23 And so I think that you know for me you know that day I because there's consequences no matter which which decision you make there's consequences and so for me I made the decision and my loyalty always lies with the people that I am responsible for. And so, you know, I was on the battlefield. I was able to do something and I was willing to deal with the consequences of taking the actions that I did

18:00 in I'm not uh my background's in sports. Uh yours is too, but then military after being a football player. And um the military is known at least from outsiders as like very order driven. You're given an order, you follow it. you think of like a few good men or whatever, like movies and stuff like that. So, you're given orders multiple times, hey Dakota, do not go in there. Do not get get into the fight. You're going to get killed. It's too dangerous. Basically, you you cannot do it. Multiple times. And you defy orders, which again from outside of the military, we're like, "No, you don't defy orders. That's not what you do."

18:40 Yet, you did, right? Because of your loyalty to the people you were serving. What's going through your mind in those moments every time when you go against what you were ordered to do?

18:51 Well, I you know and and these things are these situations are always multi-dimensional. Like was my leadership wrong by telling me no? No. I mean they were putting me first, right? They're putting but but organizations and leaders today they are so so riskadverse that that risk comes before results and and and and and that's it right like like do you want to be successful or do you want to be safe? Do you want to to not take chances? like you you just it does they don't they don't they don't live around each other like you can't be successful do hard things and stay comfortable and be safe in no world does that exist. And so that's what you had was a battle that day. And you know my leaders were right. They were 100% right by telling me and denying me to come in.

19:51 But but it wasn't right for what needed to be done. I was there and I had a job to do. And so for me that day, you know, I'm a peopleist and and so, you know, putting them first and what needed to be done and getting the results of getting these people out. Nobody else was going to figure it out. So somebody had to do it and you know those things become contagious too, right? Like like another thing is about about leadership. A leadership is leadership is nothing more than an influencer, right? And influencers inside organizations. a leadership that comes in and and and is influencing whether one way or the other that is a leader like an influencer is a leader. And so, you know, because that's what leaders do.

20:33 Leaders get people to do or they get people to don't. And that's that's ultimately what leadership is. And so that day, you know, being able to bring people in and and to to maybe in, you know, inspire or motivate people to that that we needed to keep pushing it was still worth it, you know, but there was nothing I don't know. There there was nothing formal about it. It was just the right thing to do.

20:59 Yeah. Um again, I I'm I'm so grateful that you're here to tell the story, but I I am again from an outsider who hasn't done it, going back in each time to go to be there for your guys, like what's happening like what what what what is what is actually happening? What's like who's shooting at you? Where are you at? Like what's it look like? What's it feel like? Do you even have time to think or are you just going like what's happening during each of those times when you went back in after

21:30 was the worst. Um the first trip in was the worst with the heaviest fighting. I mean, you got guys shooting at you. Um I mean, it sounded like like static and the static was the rounds passing by you. You know, when a when a bullet passes by you close enough, it makes like a crack sound. It's uh it makes like honestly the best way to to make the noise is if you hold a sheet of paper up and you take a a pencil and you hit it like like the the tip of it through the pencil. That's Yeah. That like that's the noise, right? It's like a crack and that that's what it sound like. But there was so much of that it was static.

22:03 Wow. It sound static going over my head and and you know the first time going in, you know, you felt helpless.

22:09 It was Are you standing up like as a gunner outside of a I'm on top of the gun. Yeah. So, I'm in the turret and um

22:17 So, you're exposed like you're you're out there. You could easily easily be hit.

22:21 Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was just like I remember going in and um it's probably the most helpless feeling I've ever felt in my entire life on that first trip in and um like these my Afghan soldiers, they were all like they were kind of laying down, right? I mean, it there was some that had made it out. There were some that were pinned down and they would lay down and what they would do is they would move their leg or something to let me know that they're alive, but they're like laying down

22:49 and uh trying to act like they're dead. Yeah. Well, they're trying to stay down as low as they can, right? And um and I remember rolling in and like these guys were like there was like three of them that stood up. I don't know how many. There's two or three. And uh they stood up and and they were so excited to see the vehicle coming in. like help was showing up, right? And they're like sprinting towards a vehicle and like a couple of them just got like mowed down and you just felt so helpless that you you couldn't you couldn't stop it, you know, and and um you know, you rolled in and uh you know, that was the kind of like the first trip and then you were trying to grab the ones you could and the ones you know, you're trying to help the ones you could and then the second trip in, you know, you would get like the rest of the trips were mainly recovery. I couldn't find my teammates.

23:42 I was I couldn't we were trying to locate them and um we were getting shot at and and um so what I would do is I would get out of the turret like I would see a body or see somebody and I would jump out of the turret and I would run to where that person was and I would try to render aid to them if I could and um put a tourniquet on them. Like you could only do basic life-saving stuff. You didn't have time to to really get into it, you know. And uh there was these Ford Rangers, these track trucks that the Afghans were driving. And what I would do is I I would drag that body back to the to the to the road and then put them in the back of the truck and like if the if they were dead, I would put them on the bottom and if they had a chance to live, I'd put them on top so they would find them first when they got back to the casualty collection point.

24:29 And you know, you just did that and and really like all you could do is is you could put a tourniquet on them. Um, or you could just really just try to comfort them as they died. And uh, you know, and that's that's really all you could do at that moment, you know, the whole time.

24:45 Is this just you and a driver? Um, there were there was other people on the battlefield. We kind of linked up on probably the third or fourth trip in. Um, they were they were getting people on a medevac, but yeah, the first couple trips in it was me and a driver. Did you think you were going to die?

25:07 No, I knew I was. I knew I was. Um, but I had just made a commitment to myself that uh I just I don't This is It sounds so weird, but I just remember thinking I I just I wondered what it was going to like. Would I feel it right? Like that was all I was thinking about. I just I was waiting for I know it sounds nuts, but because like in in the turret, it's really your shoulders and up kind of like that that that's exposed. cuz you know the rest of it's got you've kind of got this metal around you or this you know steel around you and so you're you're like but you have to expose to be able to shoot because you've got to you know use the sight and so uh there's no way to kind of stay down and uh I just remember thinking that like would I know it or was it just all going to go black at one like you know what I mean? And so that was all. But I had made the decision that I knew they were going to

26:01 kill me, but I was going to I was going to make them [ __ ] do it. They were going to earn it,

26:06 man. Uh what like what did you feel like the next day? Really? like I, you know, I went back that evening, put my teammates in body bags, flew them home, and I went back immediately and I I got something to eat real quick, and then I went back to cleaning my truck. And I helped my Afghan soldiers. You know, I was close to my Afghan soldiers. Uh they were just as close to me as the Marines were. And uh so I went over there and helped them with, you know, doctoring theirs up and cleaning up their dead as well. Um cuz they they were all my friends and they were all they were just as like I said just as close to me as the Marines. And um so then after we did that then I went over and just cleaned my truck up, re you know got my truck refitted. I you know um restocked it with ammunition, clean my weapon systems and just was ready to go again. And um just in case whatever was next. And then the next,

27:08 you know, the two days later, I jumped on a convoy back and I went back to my base, went back in the house that I lived in, like the little room that we lived in. And, you know, I left there on that Monday um with me and my three other guys. And I I came back on that Thursday um and I was the only one that was still alive. And so then I just started inventorying their stuff up and uh putting in a bag to send home to their families,

27:43 man. Um yeah, I just I'm at a loss. Um it's hard to imagine. It's impossible for anyone else. Um you're later told you're going to get a Medal of Honor. Um, I even read, I don't know if this story is true, a somewhat funny story that President Obama called you and you didn't take the call cuz you were working and you said if I don't work, I don't get paid,

28:07 right? And so eventually he got a hold of you to tell you you're going to get that medal. What What were you thinking at that time?

28:14 I think it was confusing to me. Um it it it was confusing because and this is why like situations are so much bigger, right? Like they're they're it's all bigger than what you know or what you think. And I think I probably came to terms with that probably the last couple years um of not come to terms but more of understanding um you know that day to me and from my perspective is the single biggest failure of my life. Um and no matter how you want to make it feel like no matter and that's what we've tried to do. We've tried to be um we try to be emotionally understanding of people at the expense of reality and it's it's it's crushing people, right? And so, you know, it's you talk about it in sports, you know, if if if you got the ball at the last 3 seconds, had the opportunity to score, and you missed and and lost the game.

29:39 Did you lose or or did you do you go home and you tried your best? you know, and and and like no matter but if and so for me like I I mean my whole team died, you know, we we as as a war fighter, you know, I don't care what your job is, but if you if you take pride or you you take the title that you are a war fighter, gunfighter, whatever you want to call it, then you live by the ethos of you either get them out alive or you die trying. And if you didn't die trying, you didn't try hard enough. You have to live in a world of absolutes when you do a job like that. You have to uh there is no room. There is no gray area. It's you either live or you die.

30:27 Period. Period. And you know, it's kind of like the same thing in sports. It's you either win or you lose. There's no participation trophies. Nobody cares how hard Nobody cares how hard you tried. Nobody cares how hard you work. Nobody Nobody cares if you gave your best. If your best doesn't equal to the scoreboard. I mean the the there's no winning teams out there. There's no legends out there that blame the other team for them losing. And so for me, you know, that day was the biggest. So that's why I didn't understand like why was I getting an award for my teammate? Like I went in to get my teammates out alive and I didn't do that. They all died, which is I mean the biggest failure you can have as a brother, as a gunfighter. And so now did was there a lot of good that was done that day? Obviously somebody thought so. Uh that's why that's why I was awarded the medal, right? Um but but if you change the narrative

31:47 of the losses all because it doesn't feel good, do you ever learn? What have you learned from that day?

32:01 I know the stakes are high and I know that every single small moment from thoughts to actions matter and I know what the consequences can be. So for me, I don't go through life, which a lot of people do. They go through life not preparing. Instead, they go through life choosing to ride on this false insurance policy that it'll never happen to them. You know, it's like it's like how many times you think Michael Jordan, since we're talking sports, right? How many times you think Michael Jordan practiced that buzzer beater shot?

32:50 Ton. How many guys don't do that because they never they just hope that they're not the guy that gets the ball at that buzzer beater because they don't want it. They don't they can't take that pressure,

33:00 you know? And so it's like, do you think Michael Jordan just all of a sudden got the ball at the buzzer beater and like just shot it and like made it? No. He practiced for that how many times? And so, you know, it's like those moments. And so for me, I know the stakes are high. I know what the consequences of failure feel like. So, it's the fuel for me to go out and to pass that on and to live in a way that I'm not going to rely like no one nobody's coming. Like, like people have got to realize nobody's coming. You know, nobody's coming. You know, you can dial 911, but you still got to like all you're doing is asking other people to fill in the discrepancies of what you chose not to do. you're just passing on this responsibility onto other people. And so for me, you know, it's it's it's a I know I know how high the stakes are. I know how valuable life is. Um, and I've been given that not by through an educational piece, but

34:03 through a knowledge and living it piece. And that's what that's what not letting go of that failure does. But I think where people mess up though, and where people don't like the feeling of it is is that was a failure, but that doesn't mean I'm a failure. I failed but I'm not a failure. It doesn't ident it's not your identity.

34:21 How nobody else literally in the world thinks that was a failure including the president of the United States when he's wrapping a metal around your neck.

34:33 Yeah. Um how do you feel about this? The fact that literally every other human in the world who read has read your books has listened to you talk and knows the story now. um including the most powerful people in the world say this is a hero a legitimate real life living hero. We don't have a lot of those like actual heroes. Like we call people that, but there are very few who actually are. You happen to be one of the few who actually are a living breathing American hero. Yet it seems like you're like the only one who doesn't doesn't think that's at least to me it doesn't feel like you think that that's true.

35:12 Yeah. Because I think that like what we try to define like everybody's a hero to somebody and everybody has the potential to be a hero to somebody. You know that medal that medal or that day like look I'm not a I'm not a I'm not like the fastest the best shooter the strong I'm none of that. Like I am absolutely none of that. All I am is I am an example of the potential that's in every human being that has has air in their lungs of what they can do and what's inside of them. If they believe in a cause that's bigger than themselves and they love people so much that they're willing to do whatever it takes to stop the suffering and pain of other human beings, even if it's at the cost and up to the cost of their life.

36:09 What What was that day like? uh the White House was at the White House when you're getting the medal. Like what what were I'm just curious of your emotions, what you were feeling on that day.

36:22 It was confusing. I mean, I it was I was 23 years old. Um I didn't know what it meant.

36:27 Jeez, that's crazy. And I've got the whole world watching me. Um, and then you talk about, you know, this expectation of what they put on you because they think you're a hero, right? Like, well, I'm just I'm just another guy. I'm just a I'm just a guy that loves people. Like, and the only difference in me and and I mean, one difference in me and anybody else is is like there's tons of guys who deserve a Medal of Honor. Like, there's tons of first responders that deserve way more than that. I mean, there's tons of people out there who've done extraordinary things that have never been recognized. And so, you know, that's the first piece, especi especially 20 years of war. There's so many guys that you could talk about that just did way more stuff than I did. Um, they're everywhere. Heroes walk amongst us all the time. And but what people don't understand is is that when you say the word hero, they

37:24 try to make it like it's something other than just somebody like themselves. And it's not. You know what I mean? It's it's not. It's just

37:34 Well, I think part of that though is because I just don't know if I mean I I don't know what I would do. I don't know what I don't know if a lot of people if they're in that situation where it's a life life and death probably death situation

37:51 that they say I'm going to because you could just say hey I was ordered to not go I was ordered to stay in I'm a good military leader I'm going to stay I'm a good marine I'm going to listen to the orders and I'm going to stay my fault like I'm doing what I am told to do and instead

38:09 a hero I says the right thing to do is to disobey these orders multiple times to try to save lives and in doing so I'm probably going to get killed. That's that's heroic. I I don't

38:25 you don't just wake up a hero though, right? Like I you know I think people think that it's just some natural instinct in you of like yeah I'm going to go run into this. And I mean even as a firefighter like I still get scared. I was scared to death that day. Like if you want to know the if you said, "Hey, describe an em like the the most prominent emotion of that day." Fear. I was scared to death. I was scared to death. And so doing what's right. People think that, oh, I'm just naturally going to want to do what's right. No, you're not. You're naturally going to want to put yourself first. You're naturally going to want to choose comfort. Like it's why we have roads. It's why there's paths. It's why it's why I mean people are naturally drawn to and and it's a it's a human instinct of the the easy route choosing comfortable, right? And and that's that's that's that. But it's about you see people the extremes that they'll go

39:26 to when they believe in something. And so people got to believe. And like for me, I mean, you don't just wake up and and do the hard thing. It starts every day. It's every day. Like, like, do you get up when you say you're going to get up? Do you do what you say? Like, what I did that day was nothing more than me upholding my end of the deal to my teammates and to my country. Look, when I raised my right hand, the country didn't ask me to choose it or to serve it. I raised my right hand and I said, "Hey, look, if you allow me to serve you, I am going to always stay ready to be willing to try to find a way to perform the impossible, even if it's at the cost of my lives." That was the commitment and the oath that I made. And in return, you all appreciate me. You all respect me. I get to wear the nation's cloth.

40:20 You all honor me. Like, people do that, right? Every single day. Like, they thank me. Like, does anybody thank you for your service?

40:26 People are thankful. They think about that, right? And so now I've got to live up to my end of the deal. And that's all it was was me upholding the commitment just like being a father, just like being a a citizen, just like me being an American, just like me whatever titles you uphold. It's it's just you doing what you know you you said you were going to do. It's, you know, it's it's that it's it's that simple. And and there's no I just think that like I I believed, right? like I believe in the greater good and I I love people and it's it's no different today, right? Like I I don't pass a car that I feel like I can pull over and help that person if they look like they're struggling. Like I I see somebody walking through a you know, it's always easier to do nothing.

41:14 It's always easier. You're never going to have enough time. You you're always you can always justify you're too busy. You know, you can always do that. There's always that easy route sitting right there. But you have to choose to be who you say you are. I think it's the only thing we owe the world is to be who we say we are.

41:34 Yeah. Like are you a good person or you not a good person. Like like life is simple. You're either good or not. And if you're good, are your actions matching that? Is it conditional? It feels like you've um are the ultimate definition of taking ownership of all situations of your life of unforeseen circumstances that aren't good. Right? But I'm going to own it. I'm going to take ownership over. I'm going to do something about it. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to surge into action, whatever that thing may be.

42:12 But additionally from that, as I talked about the beginning of this, you're also a human, right? who's seen some stuff, who's done some stuff, who's been in the thick of the worst of the worst. And so afterwards, that can have really, really damaging effects. What What was life like afterwards? And how did you deal with some of the PTSD, some of the mental struggles,

42:38 you know, potential suicide attempts? I mean, what how did you how did you handle it?

42:45 Yeah. I mean it look the one thing my generation got completely wrong is mental health. I think that that the that the I think that the um I think that um I think the jury's out on that one. I mean, you know, if you look at this suicide crisis we have going on, this mental health pandemic that we have in every sing it it's it's not due to anything other than people not taking care of people and it's not and it's getting away from reality. You know we are so emotionally driven like look emot you you'll be able to understand this in in in in sports think and you're going to think about two players the difference emotions in sports are very powerful if they are if they're anchored in logic and reality but when when reality and logic is anchored in emotion it's very dangerous.

43:43 Hm. So, you know the guys, you know the guys who were very emotional, but they were emotional at the right times and they were able to channel that in order to help the overall overall goal of winning the game. But you also know the guys that once they got emotional, they were fighting, getting flags thrown on them that were all of a sudden moving you backwards. You know the difference in those people, right? And that's what you see out there right now is is we're trying to We're giving people no hope because we're trying to accommodate their emotions and not bring them back to reality and logic that help set them out up with discipline and down the road, right?

44:25 Like that's the reality. And so, and it starts with people's individual health. And so, for me, like I came back and and people were they did this with me. I mean, you know, when when you looked at me and I was struggling, I was drinking every single day and I was doing all I was taking all these actions that do you think I mean, when you're drinking a depressant all day long,

44:45 what do you think it's going to do with depression? You wonder why you're depressed?

44:49 Make it worse. And then you still have to get up and go do [ __ ] So, you're shoving 1,200 milligrams of caffeine down your throat because you're having to overcompensate for all the depressant you've taken. What do you think that that caffeine is going to now do? Cause anxiety, right? And then you add those two up with some trauma. Well, what do you think you got? You got a a cocktail of self-induced mental health, right, issues.

45:15 And and so I'm not saying that that that that there wasn't some trauma. It needed to be dealt with, right? But you can't deal with something when you are amplifying and you are, you know what I'm saying? Like like when you are just sitting here and feeding the problem, not the solution. And that's what I was doing. And and I think that's where the world's at today is, you know, when they talk about PTSD, depression, anxiety. I mean, think think about this. Like, you know, if if the recruiter for the school or the sports, whatever, whatever somebody wants to play, if if only the guys that didn't make the team came to you and tried to recruit you, do you think you would want to go be part of that team?

45:57 No. And that's what you have out there right now. The people who are talking about depression, anxiety, and PTSD are the ones that never got over it, right? They're the ones that like it became their identity. You don't see people. That's why I told you the the three phases of the obstac, you know, you know, going through it, the obstacle, then getting through it, and then bringing people through it. You've got a bunch of people that are standing there and still ain't figured out how to get over the obstacle, trying to help the people who are facing the obstacle, and now they're all stuck on that side of it. you don't have the people who have gotten over it and who are better from it and who have found a way to live with it bringing others through it. And that's where we're at right now in the world. And so I think for me, you know, I got out and I was drinking every day.

46:39 I was hanging around people who all they wanted to do was talk about their trauma, their war, combat. I mean, like, look, if I sit here and talk about my teammates dying every day, how do I expect myself to move on? How do I expect? How do you how are you happy if you're just talking about your problems and what bothers you the most all day long, right? You know, you're not you're not you're not healing. That's not healing. It's like picking the scab off your wound every single day.

47:06 And so, you know, I I struggle with that. And then people wouldn't hold me accountable, you know, because I would just look at you and you'd be like, "Hey, you're drinking too much." And I'd be like, "Well, you don't know what it's like for your team to watch your team get killed. I mean, what are you gonna say to me?" Right? And so for a long time people were like, "Oh, you know, we couldn't imagine what you've gone through." And they're right, they couldn't, but I couldn't imagine what you've gone through. And it's still I I needed people to hold me accountable. And And finally, you know, it wasn't until that that people did start holding me accountable

47:41 until like Are you you're holding a Glock in your hand from your truck's glove compartment? Is this is this is this what what happened? Yeah, that's the that's the place you get to when people keep feeding and they don't they don't bring you back to reality, you know, like that there's only one direction of feeding emotions and that's that's turmoil, especially when it comes to mental health and you know, yeah, I mean I I I this is not the person I wanted to be, right? I was not living the life that I wanted to be. I was not helping people.

48:16 I was not I was not in any position to be what who I knew I was. And and I couldn't figure out why. And and you know, and then you've got everybody else who's oh, you know, that's like the thing is like, you know, you that was the thing you did. You came home and you were this broken service member and that was kind of like the rest of your life. You know what I mean? That's what it seemed like. It was like a PTSD was kind of like a terminal illness. And you know, so I ended up, you know, attempting suicide. I I didn't It didn't obviously it didn't go through. I'm I'm sitting here, but thank God it didn't, you know, thank God it didn't. And I made the commitment to myself at that point that cuz the gun wasn't loaded and I told myself either rack it back. You know how you know you know what you can do. So, if you really want to die and you really going to keep living your life this way, rack it back and go ahead and do it or

49:14 or go go out and you've got to find a way to get through this and start living a life worthy of their sacrifices, your teammate sacrifices.

49:23 H like how are you doing today? Oh, listen. I wake up and live the best day of my life every day.

49:28 Really? Every day. Every day. How did you get to such a great place of gratitude? you know, accountability, you know, like I was becoming the thing that I wanted to protect people from. And you know, when I looked at it, the most unbecoming thing that there was was when I would justify me not being the best that I could be and I was justifying it by the sacrifices that my teammates had made. Like, like, how insane is that? Like, they died so that I could live. And I've seen it firsthand. So, I know the cost of freedom. I know the cost of and how valuable today is. The fact that me and you have air in our lungs and we're able to sit here and look at each other. Do you know how many people there are people on earth right now that would give anything to have that?

50:37 And so for us to sit here and use that as our excuse to not go out and make the most of it to be a good human being is absolutely unbecoming. of anything good.

50:53 You're also a dad, two daughters. Yeah. Um, how how has that changed you? Well, it's accountability.

51:03 Yeah. You know, I mean, I've got two They're the only They're the only two people in my life that didn't that doesn't that didn't choose for me to be the role that I am in their life. Hm.

51:18 And so I can't be anything that I wouldn't let anybody else be to them. So they deserve the best. Um, and it's my job to give them that. And the only way I can give them the best is if I am the best. you know, I can't I can't be, you know, I I believe as a as a as a father of daughters, I believe that you're you are so you date your daughters the longest of anybody.

51:50 Mhm. You set the you set the bar for what they're going to accept and what they're not going to accept. And so I want them to have the best. And so the bar is high every single day. that I got to make sure I said it because look, I I believe that if your daughters start dating shitty and weak men, it's because you are a shitty and weak man.

52:11 Yep. So, make it a little light for a second because it's been deep. So, my daughters make fun of me all the time. It's a daily occurrence.

52:20 I don't know how anybody could make fun of Dakota Meer, though. Like, my daughters my daughters like they uh it it's pretty funny. It's pretty funny. People be like, "Uh,

52:34 wait, how old are they again?" Eight and nine. So, okay. Okay. So, yeah. Go ahead.

52:40 Yeah. They like they they tell me I'm cringe all the time. Dad, you're cringe. I heard them the other day. There was like somebody made they'd made these little action figures of me and they'd mailed them to my daughters. This is a while back, but um some the girls were, you know, they're definitely not going to keep them. like they going to rip them out of the box and they're in there playing and I'm like making them uh breakfast on a Sunday and I heard one of them go, "Oh, I'm Dakota Meer. I used to be cool but now I'm just a dad." And I was like, "Hey, hey, you better put that [ __ ] up."

53:15 Like they know they know about your service, right? Or you know I they know that I they know I'm a Marine, right? Um

53:25 but I don't ever talk about it. I don't know that I don't know if they know about it. I I don't honestly I I Google's playing. Look, if you're a parent today, you understand that like um this uh this reality check of Google of like them being able to see what's real and what's not. Like, so I don't know what they know. They don't ever bring it up. But, you know, my goal has always been that I know one day they're going to find out. Mhm.

53:50 And I just hope that by the time they find out, they're not surprised by the dad that I've shown them and the man that I've shown them that I am.

53:59 Yeah. Yeah. Um well, you know, I was rereading Into the Fire, uh which uh is an insanely well-ritten book that seems like a movie. The crazy thing is it's your life. Um, and so I would imagine, you know, maybe at some point they they they read that and be like, "No way." Like, "No way that that's our dad." Like that. I just can't even That's that's crazy. Um, I want to I normally do not talk about current events, Dakota. I like these to be timeless. But you had a tweet recently that I think is a timeless tweet. Um, you you actually did this on September 11th of this year. um because there's a lot going on in the world. Um the assassination of Charlie Kirk and um you said for those even mentioning quote civil war, you are wrong. That only amplifies our problems.

54:56 America doesn't need a war. What we need is to vote, to lead, to speak up in schools, to teach our kids history, truth, kindness with strength, and how to disagree without violence. It starts with us being the example. We must not become what we're trying to correct, man.

55:19 Amen. uh what say more about that because when I hear people talking about civil war or whatever, I'm like what are we doing? What why are we saying that? I understand people are mad and rightfully so, but civil war uh I I Yeah. So when I read that, I thought this is exactly right. This is the message literally everybody needs to hear what Dakota is saying.

55:45 Yeah. I I I understand the emotions behind it. I understand that people are feeling a lot right now, but you know the feeling feeling in these moments right now is a very good symptom of that people care.

56:00 Mhm. And you know what I'll say is is right off the bat is the people calling for civil war have never done war. Um 100%. So, so if you're getting caught up in these guys talking about Civil War or things like that, just understand that they've never done it. Understand that they've never I don't care what their record says or what they tell you they've done. Uh they they've never they've never done it. And so nor would they be willing to, right? Um and so I think that's that's it's dangerous rhetoric, right? I but I also think that this this rhetoric of like choosing violence because you don't agree with somebody is just as dangerous. And you're seeing that and and whether you like it or not whether you like it or not.

57:00 For some reason, for some reason there, and I'm not going to get into left or right, but one, there is one side that is choosing violence and has been. I mean, you see it like you can't argue it until we can come until we can all come to the table and agree that no matter what, no matter what death or no matter what cause is not or no matter what wrong inside of our country is not acceptable to induce violence.

57:32 We can't even talk. We can't talk. You know what I mean? Look, like I do not agree with people entering the building the way that they did at January 6, but I also like even bigger don't agree with the burning of cities. Like it's called peaceful protest.

57:50 Yes. Don't agree with Jimmy Kimmel getting cancelled. Right. I think that is wrong. Unless you are inciting and getting trying to get people to induce violence, there is no cancellation of you, right? Like look now, I think organizations can do whatever they want, right? I think that if they choose that this doesn't fit what they want to, but I don't think that it's right. I I mean I I if that, you know, the organizationally, yes, whoever's paying you can obviously I mean people get fired all the time, right? If you don't work on time, you get fired. So I think that people can do that and organizations can. But I think us as a country, unless you are actively trying to get people to go and hurt other people, it's free speech.

58:34 Mhm. Hard stop. It's a dangerous slope. Yep. Dangerous slope. And it And so, you know, we've all got to back off and we have to identify where the lines are at. And and it's got to be but but the number one thing that's killing us right now, Ryan, and and this is it. It's hypocrisy.

58:56 Yeah. Hypocrisy. We are holding other people to a standard that we don't hold ourselves to. Period. If you want to talk about the single single factor to all the problems in we talk about our country, but as humans, it's hypocrisy. and hypocrisy is going to kill us.

59:23 I think your voice is so important to be heard right now as as important as anybody in our country legitimately because you've you've actually been there and done done it. You've you've been in the midst of of all of uh uh the toughest places on our planet. You've served our country. You serve our country. you seem to be remarkably reasonable, right? Meaning being able to say things are right or wrong and not say like I'm on this side or I'm on that side, but to be an independent thinker, right? And to be able to say I'm with this or I'm with that. Not based on again any right or left, but but just being a reasonable person of what makes sense. And I think more like you and more who have similar voices like that who have done what you've done which is a tiny tiny percentage of humans on the planet need to be heard a lot more than than some of the voices that we're hearing today.

1:00:24 Yeah. But it's hard. I mean just being honest with you like it's hard to overcome like because people don't want to hear that. Like people like

1:00:33 Yeah. It's like this dopamine fix. You want to talk about PTSD? You know, PTSD is all about this, you know, you talk about this this this dopamine, you know, you talk about this rise in cortisol, all this stuff, right? Like the same thing, Ryan, comes from negativity. So, think about this,

1:00:49 right? Like it comes from negativity. Like people like negativity because it makes them feel, right? Like that's why people get so energized in it because it it it amplifies. It's a fight or flight. It's no different than being in combat, right? If there's some negativity coming at you or some type of conflict, your senses rise. It gives you that high just like jumping out of a plane or things like that. And that's why people are so addicted to reality TV. That's why they're so addicted to negativity. That's why you go put a comment out on social media that's not controversial.

1:01:19 Nobody says [ __ ] You turn around and you put out something that's controversial and all these people want to comment because it makes them feel it. It it it triggers this in them, right? And so all of a sudden,

1:01:30 it's no different than coming home from combat. It's the same as coming home from combat. Like think about this. If your if your cortisol levels and all of your you know your these these these levels are risen because of fight or flight. You don't think that gets addictive to people?

1:01:45 Yeah. Right. And that's why people are struggling so much. And because when I look at you and I go I always ask questions like I'm in. I'm in. Listen we'll we will I'll hear listen and flush out any idea any concept and I'll just do it by questions. So, you know, you want to talk about civil war. Okay. Okay. Um, let's let's flush it out. What are we trying to accomplish? Who who are we against? Identify who we're against. People who don't agree with us. Oh, so is that that's everybody? At what point it what is success? Like if it's left versus right, so does a civil war come down? Does like one side have to be completely eliminated?

1:02:30 Like you know it's it's you don't you don't change a mindset or ideas by attacking the idea or mindset. You change it by giving them a better mindset. I'm sure you see this too if when you go out on the road and you speak or you meet with leaders or companies or people and you meet people from all over the spectrum of political landscape all different parts of the country being like bumping shoulders having conversations the online world of the craziness of the negativity that you're talking about is not real life. It is not like that. You get out there, like I said, I travel all over the country, all different places, red, blue, whatever, you know, purple, everything. And I'm like, these people are great. These people are great.

1:03:23 They're great people everywhere. But then you So, it's it's why it's uh I think the governor of Utah said it, you know, Spencer Cox, he's like, get get off get off social media and go touch some grass. Go bump into people, have conversations. Like for the most, obviously there are exceptions and we've seen some examples unfortunately that have been tragic, but for the most part you get out there and you and you have those conversations and you realize like most people are great, man. Like they really are. But you you I do think you need to get offline and just go talk to people, go bump into them, have conversations, listen, ask questions, be curious, ask follow-up questions. Just like you're saying is what you do. And I think that leads to a lot better outcomes than than arguing with people on the internet.

1:04:07 I'm with you. I travel all the time. I travel all the time. And I'll tell you, Ryan like if I connect with somebody or I don't, it was all my choice.

1:04:21 Like you can't put You could throw me and I would challenge anybody that's you can't You're right. Like if I got to sit here and text back and forth with them 100%. Throw me in any room and I bet you I bet you I can find a way to connect with them and everybody leave feeling better.

1:04:39 100%. I'll find something that we have in common. We all have more in common. Every human being, you know, we all and and I realize this as a firefighter. Like man, I I come up on people and I'll tell you what's crazy is is is I come up on a homeless person who's overdosed or whatever whatever it is. You know, there was a point in their life where they never thought they'd be homeless. We're all only a few decisions away from being where somebody that we're looking down on is at. I've met guys, people who made a bad business decision, lost their family, their wife, lost all their money, then tried to deal with the pain by taking a pill, and the next thing you know, they're homeless. Literally, we're all three to four decisions away from being that.

1:05:39 and and it's like I you know I look at them and I relate to them and you know I understand them and I I don't necessarily I don't have to agree with everybody. I don't have to definitely might not be the route that I would have took but but you know what like I I leave all of them trying to connect with them on some way because it makes me better. You know, I feel like everybody you come in contact with like they all have a key and and and they can unlock something in you.

1:06:11 What uh that leads me uh my last question for at least this this first conversation. Uh Dakota, like what is it that you want to do more of? Uh what excites you the most about your current work that you want to you want to put out more of into the world? You know, if you go back to the day September 8th, like what it taught me the most. And I'm so thankful for that day because it taught me what unconditional love is. And that's really what it that's what it taught me. And it taught me the power of it. It taught me the the power of love.

1:06:47 And love, you know, what we've done today is is is we've wrapped love up into this feeling. It's an emotion. And love's not an emotion. Love is a choice. You know, we think that if you love me, you'll make me feel good. And it's exact opposite. If you love me, you're going to like you're going to always help me be the best version of me. That's what love is. And that doesn't always feel good, right? And I think in life, you have to decide as a person, do you want to be liked or do you want to be trusted? because you can't be both. You have to say the hard things. You have to tell help them be the best version of themselves.

1:07:29 I didn't know you're going to say that, but I love that that's kind of the way you're your ethos of how you're going about yourself and and how you're trying to impact people in a positive way.

1:07:37 A guy told me this the other day. I was I was going back and forth on, you know, I mean, obviously we we're all taking haters, right? And uh

1:07:44 I uh this guy told me he said uh he said, "Don't give him any fuel." He said, "Don't even pay him any attention." He said, "You know what? History History never remembers the critics or the haters.

1:08:01 So true, Dakota. Man, um this is amazing. Unlike anything I've ever done, man, in 11 years. Uh I'm very very grateful that um uh you exist and that you're here and for your service to our country. I hold you in as high a regard as as I can of any other human being. So, thank you for that. I know you probably makes you uncomfortable hearing that, but I'm I'm not going to not say it because it's true. Um, uh, thank you for being here. I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress. Man, this was this was great. Oh,

1:08:31 let's do it again. Love it, man. Thank you so much.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Dakota Meyer: Life Beyond the Medal of Honor REVEALED"?

Ryan Hawk (Host), Dakota Meyer (Guest).

What is "Dakota Meyer: Life Beyond the Medal of Honor REVEALED" about?

Dakota Meyer, the only living Marine recipient of the Medal of Honor, reflects on his military experiences, emphasizing that his story is one of leadership failure rather than heroism. He shares insights on the importance of accountability, the impact of hypocrisy, and the daily commitment required to live authentically.

What is mentioned in this Ryan Hawk episode?

3 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Dakota Meyer, Operation Redwing, Into the Fire. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Dakota Meyer: Life Beyond the Medal of Honor REVEALED"?

The episode runs 1 h 9 min; the transcript is about 12,349 words in 135 timestamped sections.

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