Transcript

The Introvert Who Built Angie’s List (Against Every Odd) | ANGIE HICKS

From Ryan Hawk · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 55 min · 11,401 words · 141 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Introvert Who Built Angie’s List (Against Every Odd) | ANGIE HICKS", an episode of Ryan Hawk published December 13, 2025 (55 min, about 11,401 words). It mentions 20 people, works and ideas, including Bill Austerlitz, HomeAdvisor, Angie's List, Angi, Ben Patty.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on Angie Hicks, the co-founder of Angie's List, exploring her journey as an introvert who defied challenges to build a successful business. Key points include the importance of authenticity in leadership, the significant shift from individual contributor to leading others, the influence of her grandfather in encouraging her entrepreneurial spirit, and the value of continual learning and mentorship in achieving personal and professional growth.

Key takeaways

  • Longevity hack: Choose coworkers wisely and prioritize perpetual learning over instant laurels.
  • Introvert power: Authenticity beats pretense; embrace discomfort to grow.
  • Good leaders' dilemma: Performing excellently doesn’t translate to leading effectively; leadership requires new skills.
  • Leap of faith: Grandpa's conservative wisdom catalyzed a daring entrepreneurial journey.
  • Company name genesis: Simple copycat origins led to an iconic brand evolution.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Unified Neighbors, Al Murray
  2. – 10:00: Angie's List, Unified Neighbors, Al Murray, Craigslist
  3. – 15:00: Angie Hicks, Unified Neighbors
  4. – 25:00: Disney Channel, Harvard Business School
  5. – 35:00: Adam Bryant
  6. – 40:00: Athletic Greens, Cat Cole, Voice of the customer
  7. – 50:00: Angie's List
  8. – 55:00: Angie's List

Notable quotes from "The Introvert Who Built Angie’s List (Against Every Odd) | ANGIE HICKS"

  • I was not smarter at math than Murray.
    about Al Murray · at
  • Lived in Indianapolis, he lived in an old house and had rehabbed it using a little service called Unified Neighbors that one of his co-workers had turned him on to. And it was…
    about Unified Neighbors · at
  • Which made sense, right? And then at the last minute, Bill said, Maybe it should be Angie's list. She does answer the phone.
    about Angie's List · at
  • All great business leaders they have the patties in their life and it's usually because the Angie Hicks of the world shows up worked her butt off was resilient was likable knew her stuff right I bet you knew your stuff yeah.
    about Angie Hicks · at
  • Wouldn't let us advertise on kids shows. We would there was you never find us on Disney Channel or Nickelodeon because I didn't want I didn't want that. but the kids would see…
    about Disney Channel · at
  • So you were still doing now getting into Harvard Business School is really hard. Was it because of the success of the business? Do you think that helped you get admitted?
    about Harvard Business School · at
  • It was actually it was actually out of I read it in one of Adam Bryant's books. Oh yeah the corner office columns corner office columns. He had interviewed a leader who had been a professor at one point and that's what.
    about Adam Bryant · at
  • On your brand than anything else. And how do you bring kind of the voice of the customer into the organization? I think that's that's important. I mean like we live in a you know in our particular business I mean we are.
    about Voice of the customer · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Companies & orgs

Concepts & topics

Full transcript with timestamps

How are you still doing this after 30 years? I'm like, I ask myself two questions. Do I like the people I'm working with? And am I learning new things?

What did you learn as a self-identified introvert? I think you have to find a way for you to be your authentic self because you can't fake it all the time. Sometimes you have to do the hard stuff and you have to figure out ways to work around it.

What's the biggest difference for you going from individual contributor to somebody who's going to lead others? The skills that make us really good individual performers do not necessarily make us good leaders because it's actually a whole different skill set.

Did you start to become famous at that point? Quite honestly, not until the marketing team came to me and we're like, hey, Angie, the most common question we get is whether there is an Angie.

So, the business is just starting to take off and you're like, hey, you know what? I'm going to peace out.

I ended up leaving for a year and a half to go to business school. I'm going to enjoy the learning for the learning.

Wow. Wow. uh that seems to be an implementable idea for all leaders whether you're the CEO or not.

Go where you're going to be with somebody who believes in you. So, who's coaching you is what's going to make the biggest difference.

Angie, to start, uh I loved reading about your grandfather's influence. He you you I I read that he was actually quite conservative, but he was actually the one that pushed you to start a business. Was this at 22 or age 23? Can you tell me more about your grandfather and his influence on you to start a business?

Yeah. So, I had the opportunity, my co-founder came to me uh when I was a senior in college and said, "Hey, I've got a crazy idea. Your parents are going to hate it, but why don't we start a business?" And I was like, "That is a crazy idea. I think I might hate it." Um, and you know, so I spent a lot of time kind of thinking about it and kind of him hauling around, talked to talked to my parents, uh, and you know, talked to a bunch of people, talked to my friends, and then I ended up talking to my grandfather. He was incredibly conservative. He was just very fiscally responsible and kind of looked at me and was like, "What do you have to lose?

Like, why are you just not taking this leap?" And and you know, he's like, "You're 22. like your parents aren't going to let you starve and you know you're not trying to support a family so why don't you try it and I was so takenback by his response that that was that that comment was probably what pushed me over the edge because it was one of those things that I think and I think young people can do this a lot is we tend to overthink decisions and sometimes people see things in you that you don't see in yourself and you've got to have a little faith and what better time to have a little faith than when you're young and carefree.

What do you think your co-founder Solen uh I actually interned for him when I was in college and I remember going to the interview. Uh he worked at a venture capital firm in Indianapolis and uh he his first question out of the gate was and I knew nothing was was you know are you as smart at math as the guy I just interviewed? And I went to a small school so I knew the guy he just interviewed and I was like okay what do I do? Do I say and I

Do you think you were smarter than him or what? I was not smarter at math than Murray. No, I was not. And so I was like, do I do I sell here or do I just be honest? And I was like, well, if that's what you're looking for, then Murray's your guy. Uh, and then he went on to ask me what venture capital was. My very very uh astute answer was you invest in small companies. That was the extent of my explanation. While factually correct, probably uh didn't didn't wow him. Uh and so at the after we interviewed he later told me he was like you know what I figured you could use a break and you're like you you were smart and you are a hard worker and you know I wanted to give this to you to give you a break and he later said it was like I'd give her any project at the internship and she'd just barrel through it and get through it you know so work hard and uh and you know things will things will come your way is what I learned there.

Hm. So, what was the original business idea? You wanted to start a business, but but what was it? What was that that idea?

Yeah. So, well, at first it was literally he wanted to start a business and he wasn't quite sure what the business would be. And so, we kind of played around with a bunch of ideas. Um, but in the meantime, he had moved from uh Indianapolis to Columbus. And when he lived in Indianapolis, he lived in an old house and had rehabbed it using a little service called Unified Neighbors that one of his co-workers had turned him on to. And it was basically a little directory that kept track of good plumbers electricians contractors, etc. And then so he moved to Ohio and he loves old houses. So he bought yet another diamond in the rough and uh realized pretty quickly there was nothing like unified neighbors in Columbus. uh and got uh taken by a contractor and started looking around the country and realized that that little business that started in the '7s in Indianapolis was actually one of a kind. And so that became the business we

wanted to start. If we roll back the clock, it was 1995. It was an offline world. I mean, email was barely a thing. Uh and so we started as a call-in service and a monthly newsletter. How did you and him decide? By the way, what's his name?

Uh, Bill. Bill Austerly. Bill Austral. Okay. How did you and Bill decide on what the name of the company would be?

Well, the first name of the company was actually Columbus Neighbors. Uh, it was totally just a knockoff of Unified Neighbors, and so we were in Columbus, so we shall be Columbus Neighbors. Uh, we left it like that for a year, and what we realized is people just didn't get it. They screwed up the name. They called us the good neighbors. They um and they also thought that the newsletter was the list. They thought that when you know it's like, oh, I opened the newsletter. If there weren't plumbers this month, then, you know, maybe it'll be helpful to me next month, which was exactly what we didn't want them to think. We didn't we wanted it to be dynamic. Um so we we decided to do a rebranding. We had two options. One was going to be the list kind of this militant like I've got your back uh homeowner and then the other one was going to be Jackie's list. Jackie was uh the mother of one of our investors who

lived in Columbus and she knew everybody. If you needed to know something, you'd call Jackie, you know, which made sense, right? And then at the last minute, Bill said, "Maybe it should be Angie's list. She does answer the phone." And I consider this one of my uh inconsequential inconsequential decisions of the time, right? Like we had like what I don't know thousand members, 500 members, I don't know what we had. And uh and Bill was like, you know, the story works even if she leaves. Uh and so Angie's list it became uh but uh you know it was it was you know we were in Columbus. It was small like you know let it be named that it's fine.

God wow that's wild to see 30 years later. Was Craigslist around? Craigslist though it's interesting. Craigslist started right about the same time Angie's List did but you know he was on the coast and we were we were in the Midwest. So I

So you were aware you guys were aware or No, I was totally not aware of it until

So did he copy off of you then? I think we actually started about the same time.

Wow, that's really Yeah, totally coincidental to totally totally coincidental the whole part and it was, you know, it was a while later until I'd even heard of it because like, you know, for a while it was just kind of a West Coast thing.

Gotcha. Okay. So you are self at least then were a self-identified maybe currently still a introvert and one of the things though that you started doing in Columbus Ohio which I love this part of the story is that you start just knocking on doors going doortodoor trying to sell these memberships. I I mean what tell me about these experiences what maybe maybe a high a low everything in between. What did you learn as a self-identified introvert? As someone who then just pounded the pavement, knocked on doors, got rejected, had to be resilient, had to keep going. What was that like?

Yeah, it was it was hard. It there was a lot of crying when we uh took the concept from, you know, Unified Neighbors. I mean, they'd built their entire business on door tod doors and they had no other marketing kind of concept. So, we were like, well, I guess we'll try doortodoor, you know, but it was 20 years later. I mean, I mean, I think everybody listening is probably laughing. I'm like, I can't remember the last time I answered my door to anyone now. I mean, it wasn't much better in 1995. Uh, and I was selling something that wasn't concrete.

Like, I was selling a like, hey, so when you need a plumber, you're going to call me and I'm going to help you find a plumber and then when you hire someone, you're going to tell me about there was just nothing that I could kind of pull from that that that made it work. You know, while I wasn't as smart at math as Murray was, I I was a numbers person. So, I viewed it as a numbers game, right? I'm like, I need to knock on so many doors every day and that's just what I'm going to do. At that time, gosh, I mean, if I was selling one or two memberships a day, I mean, I was like, that's great. No big no business was going to be built on me selling one or two memberships a day, but that's kind of where we were. Uh, that's what

How many doors a day would you would you need to knock on to get one or two one or two closes? Wow. I'd probably do it a couple of hours. So, I mean, I was probably doing 10 or 20, you know, kind of houses. And then every once in a while, I'd find someone that just, I don't know, maybe they thought I needed a break like Bill did. And, you know, they'd give me their uh friend list or, you know, one woman, Patty, she gave me her her church directory and said, "You call everybody in this directory." And you tell them that Patty said to call.

Do you remember the exact pitch? Like, how did you open? What were some of your discovery questions? Like, what what what did it sound like? like I would love to go into that moment.

I would basically be like, "Hey, you know, I'm I'm I'd introduce myself." I would explain like, you know, I'm starting a new business, you know, when it's to help you find good contractors. You know, we were selling against basically the yellow pages at that time, right? You know, so it was the you want to get the real scoop on uh the service providers that you're hiring to work around your home and you're not sure who to use. We can tell you that because we're collecting reviews from actual customers who have used them and we can tell you which ones are which ones you want to hire and which ones you might want to avoid. And you know, so you can call me anytime. I will give you the the names. And then we also have a newsletter. And I quite honestly I think probably kind of the newsletter and the fact that we priced it similar to a magazine subscription at $19 a year at the time was probably what sold it. And

they were like, "Fine, I'll take a magazine subscription for $19 a year." Sometimes out of pity, just like, "All right, just get out. Get out of my house."

Yeah. Really? What do But what do you draw from that that experience, though? Both the willingness to knock on doors, to get doors slammed in your face, to get rejected, as well as to get a deal every once in a while. Like, what do you draw from from from those experiences?

I mean, what I think it's like it teaches you that sometimes you have to do the hard stuff. Sometimes you have to do the stuff you're not good at and you have to figure out ways to work around it because no matter what you do in your career, there's going to be stuff you don't love. I'm a believer in the you can do anything for a year philosophy. You can you can do that kind of like I could do anything for an hour a day. I could do and so you have to kind of disconnect and treat it that way as you know kind of like this is like taking my medicine, right? Um, and uh, and but you do win every once in a while.

Why do you think Patty gave you her church list? She lived near Bill, so I think she kind she she liked she liked him, too. But I think it was like she just liked us. And she I think there was a little bit of entrepreneur in Patty cuz Patty needed nothing from us. Like Patty had lived in Columbus her entire life. She had renovated a 1920s house. Like she needed nothing. She all she was able to do was give. Like let's be honest. like she knew everybody. Um, but I think she just loved she loved the spirit.

I the reason I bring that up, Angie, and I and and I think this could be useful for a lot of people is there's something to be said for being likable, for being authentic and genuine and and being willing to do the hard thing. I think people respect that. I think the patties of the world and all it's like funny all great entrepreneurs all great business leaders they have the patties in their life

and it's usually because the Angie Hicks of the world shows up worked her butt off

was resilient was likable knew her stuff right I bet you knew your stuff yeah and then you find people like Patty and they want to they they want to propel you they want to help like I think there's a lot of learning there that if you show up and keep getting after it and keep having a positive attitude and be resilient and fight through the the tough times, the the door is slamming in your face, you'll eventually knock on Patty's door. And so, I'm using this story as a metaphor, but that feels to me a very relatable story if you're willing to keep going.

Right. Right. Because I think there there is and you you don't know whether that's door seven, door one, door 57. You don't know. Yeah.

Um, but there is typically a breakthrough and I think you know staying true and persistent and you know it's like yeah I mean you know there's there probably weren't a lot of women starting businesses going door too in 1995 you know and Patty was like look she's got some gumption right I think that that same lesson is the same um you know I was like I when I talked to young people I was like hey you can do marketing anywhere right like there's you know any company you can do marketing like when it comes to me it's like go where you're going to be with somebody who believes in you,

that's going to invest in you because that's actually what's going to change your tra trajectory. It's not the name on the company that's going to change your trajectory. It's actually who's who's got who's got your back, who's who's coaching you is what's going to make the biggest difference.

So, let's progress a little bit further. You're you're knocking on doors. You're making a sale or two a day, uh sometimes more, and so it's growing steadily. Uh what's the next inflection point? What was the next moment that you vividly remember to say, "Oh, do we have something here? We we we got something like the arrows really starting to point up." Like what happened? What was that moment?

We kind of we we got Columbus going. Got probably what a thousand members in the first year. We ended up acquiring that business, Unified Neighbors. But for me was uh was when we opened in Cleveland the year after that. Uh it was the first market we had opened, you know, from scratch. Uh, and I remember, you know, we were a we were a uh local uh offline advertiser. So I went to I went one morning and you know that morning and picked up the newspaper, picked up the plane dealer at the at the bagel shop across the street from my office and I was like and there it was, our little 2x3 ad uh that said, you know, tired of lousy service with some, you know, clip art on it.

Did you write this and make it yourself? For sure. 100%. Okay. 100%. Great copy. Sounds like

ran in the New York Times, by the way, years later. So, are you serious? Uh, yeah.

That's awesome. That's all. Okay. So, sorry. Maybe we didn't invest in creative early on. That wasn't our strong suit.

Being authentic and real and speaking from like the owner's mouth. I like that. I like the authenticity of that. I mean, eventually you probably hire out help for people that are good at that stuff, but there's something to be said for for having like your company having an authentic voice. I think that's important. I I like that.

And in many ways, you know, it just kind of stuck out, right? You know, just so so I open up the plane dealer and there's the ad and I was like, gosh, I sure hope the phones ring. You know, it's like, what are we doing? This is real now. It's not just this little thing we opened in Columbus. Um and uh and the phones did ring, but uh but that was probably the moment when it was like uh we're going we're doing this.

And what happened next? Uh you know, so then you know, so then Cleveland started to take off and then you know, and then we opened in Charlotte. So we kind of got on a path of opening markets, you know, once a year. Uh and you know, Charlotte was probably our market that was the hardest hardest hardest one to open uh to this day. Uh, you know, it was funny. I was like, it was a city that I thought, you know, lots of people like to move to Charlotte, but it was an amazingly insider city.

Huh. Like there it was it was it was interesting. It was so interesting to watch. We in fact contemplated closing Charlotte because it was just not taking off like the other cities had. Uh then we just decided like, hey, we'll just pull back the marketing. We'll just see what happens if it let if it goes organically. What about the change or the transition from this kind of magazine subscription like newsletter business to the online world? What was that like?

Yeah. So for us, so we made that transition in like 99. We were really kind of worried about like it changing who we were up until that point. We had offices in every city. We thought understanding local service was being local. So, we had people staffed answering the calls for Charlotte separate from people that were answering the calls for Cleveland, etc. because you kind of needed to know everything about the city. Um, but in order to put a website up and to make it interactive, all of those things that we were doing, we're going to have to potentially change. Uh, but we didn't want to change kind of who we are. We viewed online as an additional channel, not a complete replacement. Um, you know, and so first we put up a little website that was, you know, I think we spent $1,000 on it. Uh, hired some kids, you know, fresh out of college to to create it. It was email-based and uh and it was uh and it

was just it was just a marketing kind of website. And so we asked our uh chief operating officer a few months in like, "Hey, how's that going?" and he goes and he looks like, "Yeah, like half of our new members are coming in via this email." And we were like, "Oh my gosh, okay, now we need to figure out what to do." So, but then we kind of like were worried again because we were like, "Oh, we should make an interactive website." Well, you know, do we want to put the entire list up, you know, kind of on the web? Like all of a sudden it kind of created all these kind of questions. So we we were slow to kind of open things up, but we put up an interactive website. You know, as as as every story like this goes, you know, it's like all of a sudden like 90% of our activity was happening on the web,

but we always kept a call-in service. You could still stop by our office if you wanted to. Like for us, it was like it was about creating connections and kind of meeting our customers where they were. And so clearly the website was you know kind of paramount to kind of driving the growth and meeting those many of the customers where they were. There were still folks that you know wanted to call and and chat with someone and you know and here you know they needed someone to

counsel them. You know home improvements you know kind of stressful scary sometimes and maybe they just needed a friend.

Did did you start to become famous at that point? It was really quite honestly not until the marketing team came to me in like 2004 or five and we're like hey Angie um the most common question we get is whether there is an Angie. So would you would you consider being in some marketing and again another inconsequential decision at the time because we weren't spending very much money. We were spending maybe a million dollars in marketing and I was like fine let's try it you know like whatever. uh you know and and and and it worked and then the next thing you know we you know we couldn't find something to beat it and so

what do you mean it worked? What is that? How do you define that? It was successful. It was like we got the best response rates off of that those ads.

What were you guys doing? Like what I'm trying to remember that time, but what were you doing?

We had some magazine ads, but then we were also doing television. So kind of our second television campaign um was actually had me, you know, starring me. Uh, I told him I was like, "You get what you get." You know, one of the rules for me is that however we present has to be who I am because I have to live this life,

you know. So the, you know, the person they see on TV needs to be the person they see in the grocery store. Um, and you know, and that's limiting. That's hard for creative people, right? It's like they're like, I'd like to do all of these kind of crazy fun things. I'm like, I'm not there. That's not where I am. Um but uh but yeah and then and then it kind of took off and then

Yeah. How did that impact not only your life but all of like your loved ones, the people around you's lives?

Yeah. I mean it you know in many ways it's like I was uh you know I I was a had young kids at the time like I wouldn't let us advertise on uh on kids shows. We would there was you never find us on Disney Channel or Nickelodeon because I didn't want I didn't want that. Um but the kids would see me on TV, you know, they would see me doing interviews and things like that. And you know, it it happened for them at such a young age that they just kind of thought that's what parents did. And I remember one of my kids coming home in middle school and being like, I can't believe you didn't tell me you were famous. Because it was finally, you know, she the friends had grown up enough that they were like, you know who her mom is, right? And that was that was kind of that was certainly an adjustment.

So you progress in the business from being this semi-individual contributor where you're knocking on doors yourself, selling deals yourself to then leading a company, being becoming more famous and wellknown wherever you go. But I I'm curious about that jump from that individual contributor to leading others. And this is something that kind of naturally happened as your business business has grown. What's the biggest difference for you or what were some of your biggest key moments or key learnings going from individual contributor to somebody who's who's going to lead others?

Yeah, I I was actually I was it's a horrible transition. It's actually really hard. And you know, I tell people that all the time because it's like if you think about like who do we promote in in companies? We promote really strong individual performers.

Correct. And the skills that make us really good individual performers do not necessarily make us good leaders, managers, etc. because it's actually a whole different skill set. I ended up leaving for a year and a half to go to business school. And I think that was um you know that was a great step for me for many reasons. One, I was pretty burnt out on the business and I probably would have left the business had I not gone. And you know, two, it gave me a chance to kind of reflect on kind of where I've been and kind of kind of step back and be like, "Oh, now I understand. I'm not in the pressure cooker. I can kind of see where I've kind of missteped and things like that."

Um, you went to went to Harvard, correct, to get your MBA? I did. So, you left left your home and you did you move to go like live on campus?

Well, still young at the time. I kind of I left my apartment, sold my car, packed up like my worlds at the time. I was what was I like so I was three years in. So I was 25.

So the business is just starting to take off and you're like, "Hey, you know what? I'm going to I'm going to peace out. I'm I'm going to go learn with all the smart kids."

Exactly. Maybe people will say, "What was that crazy idea?" That's what Nobody Nobody would ever do that now. Nobody. Like the third year of the startup, they would never do that. And so my co it was at the time where we'd gotten the business had gotten big enough and my and we decided to bring in a CEO, you know, because the 22 23 year old was, you know, kind of like maybe we need some leadership here. Uh and so my co-founder joined full-time at that point. Uh and he came in as CEO. So there was an so there was a kind of you know kind of it made sense um at the time, but it was like I think it was the right thing for me for the long haul.

Um but you're right. I mean it was it was whatever it was three years in and I'm like I'm gonna take a break. I mean but I you know I joke around I'm like take a break. I was still keeping the books like don't be fooled.

So you were still doing now getting into Harvard Business School is really really hard. Was it because of the success of the business? Do you think that helped you get get admitted?

You know I think it was that I was unique like I was this Midwest gal applying to to Harvard. I mean, I, you know, I was probably late in the game and kind of deciding to go to business school. It wasn't necessarily ever on my road map, but it was like, it was kind of like maybe this is what I need. Uh, Bill gave me a little push. Uh, he had gone to HBS, so, you know, that certainly helped. Um, uh, I applied there. I applied to Northwestern. Um, then I ran out of time because my person that was running our Cleveland office quit on me and I was having to drive from Indie to Cleveland every week to work. So I was like, I I can't apply anymore. So I think I have a half I probably still somewhere have a half written application to Michigan.

Um, you know, I I got into Harvard. I did not get into Kellogg. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

So what what are what what are some of the most useful things you learned? or maybe it was the people you met. I don't know. That's usually what I hear from HBS alums. But what what what was it from that experience that that helped you be a better leader moving forward?

Yeah. I mean, I think it was a, you know, in a lot of ways it was a time for kind of reflection and and kind of understanding what I'd been through because if you actually rolled back and kind of thought about it, I've like started a business, opened a bunch of markets, I made an acquisition, I was leading people. There was just like so many things that I was just like, I don't know what this is. like, you know, I didn't I didn't grow up with a, you know, a family with a business background. My dad was a UPS driver. My mom was a bank teller. So, like all of this stuff was just like, okay, I don't know what this is. It's interesting.

Fine. Um, but uh so it was a chance to kind of step back. I think it was also a time for me um I was I was like humbled that I got to go to HBS. Like I'll just be I'll just straight up be honest. And you know, I was kind of that overachieving student as a young person. And I was like, you know what? Maybe this is a time I need to practice not taking life so seriously. Maybe I should just enjoy the fact that I got in. And if I don't make it out, that's okay, too.

Was it really hard? It's just like it was one of those where I was just like, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to enjoy the learning for the learning and not like turn this into kind of a thing.

Um, yeah. I mean, it was hard. I mean, like I was an introvert. I was probably the only one in my class. I don't know. Like, you know, they

we're all Don't you think that we're better suited to go I know I I should speak myself, but I feel like a lot of people were better suited to go back to school to learn after we've lived a bit.

Yeah. Like when I was in college and undergrad, I went back to get my NBA, too, and I think I I learned, but I was working full-time. It was really tough. But in undergrad, I was a a college athlete, played played football. And so,

I didn't really care that much about school. I know it sounds bad. Uh, when I was under, I was cared about playing my sport. I was on scholarship to do it. And so, I'm like, this is why I'm here. Yeah, I got to go to those classes and stuff and stay eligible and try to get a three point whatever so that my parents are happy. But, but like for the most part, I didn't really even care that much about learning in college. But like when you're when you when you got a little bit more age on you and more maturity and you've seen some of the world, that's like the right time to go back and learn some more. I feel like

Yeah, it it absolutely is. I think, you know, a lot of people think it's like I just need to push through and go and kind of get all of my education. I'm like no. I'm like there are times I'm like maybe I should go get some more education now. I'm like, you know, really,

it's like you kind of have to have a life of learning, I think. And there are different points that kind of that education and kind of what you can do with the information, having kind of practical experiences that you can kind of relate to, uh, can make it stick and me be more meaningful to you. Um, so yeah. So, so, so that kind of chance to reflect, maybe take life a little less seriously were kind of important. Um, you know, it's like it made me, but it also made me kind of like I had to go, you know, battle with people that were much more outgoing and super smart and, you know, it was based on class participation. I used to have to keep track in my head. I was like, "Okay, I have to go to class today. I have to speak today."

Wow. Wow. You know, whereas other people are just like, "I couldn't possibly not speak. I'm just so compelled to." I was like, I have to speak today otherwise I'm my grades going be lousy. Like I do need to speak today.

So, uh I think of Susan Kaine who's been on the show a few times. Yeah. Um and and I feel like you could be helpful here too. There are lots of introverts out there in leadership roles that that probably have to battle this and it's an uphill climb sometimes. What are some pieces of advice you'd give to others who are also introverted, but they live in an extroverted world around a bunch of other extroverted people and if they're not intentional, they could

just kind of fade into the background. Yeah, you're exactly right. Yeah. What advice would you share for them as somebody who still, it sounds like, deals with this every day? I think you have to find a way for you to be your authentic self because you can't fake it all the time. Like yeah, there are things that I have to do. I still do things like going door to door. I'm not saying I go door to door, but like sometimes I have to give a speech and maybe that's I don't love that and I'm exhausted after I do something like that, but I know I I have to do that. So making sure that I balance kind of my schedule when I do things like that to kind of be um cognizant of what it does.

Um, but then also find ways to kind of be yourself. I mean, I remember one of the hardest things for me was when our company got big enough that I didn't know everyone by name because when you're kind of know everybody by name, you're kind of hanging out. It's really comfortable. And as introvert, it's like this is good, right? Like I'm like I walked down the hall or I walked across our campus and I was like, "Hey, you know, so and so, it's good to see you." And it was like it was low pressure. It was like hanging out with friends. It was like being in a class that was small enough that you knew everybody. Um that I had to figure out a new way. I had to figure out a new way to because I was like I didn't like the fact that I was disconnected. Um you know so I started doing office hours

um for the team. And you know what was great about that? It was it kind of met me where I was right. It was like they were one-on-one. Absolutely anyone in the company could sign up. I dedicated an hour a week to it to get a 15 minute slot and it was a chance for me to have u have a good conversation about absolutely anything. It could be career advice. It could be what they loved or didn't like about the business. It could be you know you name it. And um and you know those were very valuable to me. Um you know and I think the the offer was a big cultural impact in the organization.

It's just like kind of, you know, we talk about accessibility, we talk about having an open door, but there is something more about the fact like we send out an email and you can sign up. It's not just like stop by and see or anything.

Would that get like would those slots though be become like ultra valuable and people would sign up immediately or like what was that like?

Well, it was interesting. It was kind of like one of those where it was like yes, there were people that were like on it, want to go, I got to go. But then I think there was also just the fact that the offer was out I think was also just as valuable. It's like, you know, as far as like I could go talk to her if I wanted to. I could I could I can do it. I don't have anything I need to talk to her about today, but like I know I always can. And that makes it and that makes this and that kind of builds the culture.

So anybody in the whole How big was the company at the time when you're doing these office hours?

A couple thousand people. Geez. So this this seems uh where like where did you where did you come up with this idea? Did it did a mentor?

It was actually it was actually um out of I read it in one of Adam Bryant's books. Oh yeah the corner office columns corner office columns. He he had interviewed a leader who had been a professor at one point and that's what they had done and I was like this is genius. I have to do this. I mean, it it makes complete sense. Why wouldn't every CE like, if how how could you argue against doing this? I mean, I know CEOs are super busy and you're like a lot of times back to back to back to back, but but who who could be more important than the people who work at your company? Like, it seems pretty obvious.

Yeah. And and I think it's like one of those where it's like you have to kind of think about this in kind of what time you're willing to invest. I think sometimes people think of like, is it an entire program? Is it something that's going to take x hours a week or whatever? I'm like, I gave it an hour. I gave I did it an hour on Fridays leading into lunchtime, which, let's be honest, was probably one of the squishiest times of kind of productive work. I was actually, you know, with a with a group of uh CEOs the other day, and I actually suggested like it's just just try a little,

just a little. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Just try a little uh and see where it takes you. Were th did those meetings would they ever turn into people kind of trying to promote themselves so they could get promoted or were they asking questions or like what were the meetings like?

Oh, it was it was anything. It was anything. It was it was literally like it was career advice. What should I do? I'd love to do this thing. They might have ideas for the business like hey we should go into this line or we thought about this idea to uh you know like I I remember talking one day to our head of legal and I was like you know I don't get open door kind of meeting requests anymore and she kind of chuckled and she's like that's because you have them all the time.

You allow problems to come to you before they're big problems so they become less of a thing.

Yeah. Oh all right well that makes sense. But it's like, you know, it's just like, you know, cuz things, you know, I'd rather people, and I I say this, I'm like, I'd rather people bring their concerns internally first and like listen to them and address them when you can because, you know, they always come internally first, whether it's from an employee, whether it's from a customer, whether it's from anything. And it's just how we kind of handle those things as to whether they blow up into something bigger.

Yeah. You know, and and Yeah. and and you name it, they just talked about whatever.

So, uh, and I always tried to give them something in return. What do you mean? So, it was uh, you know, so, you know, they come to talk to me and I'm like, whether, you know, like I' I'd introduce them to someone that would help uh, you know, kind of I would give them I'd open a door for them.

Wow. Wow. Okay. uh that seems to be like an implementable idea for all leaders regard whether you're the CEO or not is have have office hours, have those meetings with anybody who wants to talk to you that works at your company. I'm I'm curious, Angie, if you were

uh and you you probably get these requests all the time, but let's say you're going to go back to HBS and you're going to teach a class and they say, "Angie, the only umbrella, the only like highle thing that the class is that has to be around is leadership." But anything with anything under that word, you can make up whatever you want. I'm curious like what would be your class? What would you want to teach? What would be a part of the syllabus if if you were you were hired at HBS to teach something about leadership?

Yeah. I mean, I'm like to this day, I still love talking to customers. I think we we live in a very digital age and I feel like we don't talk to one another very much. like people like people,

you know, it's like and they they need to feel kind of heard and kind of things resolved. I mean, so I took that office hours idea, now I do it with customers. So any pro can sign up and talk to me. Um, same deal, you know, like talk about whatever you want. Gives me a chance to kind of understand, get a pulse on what's going on. Dedicate about the same amount of time to it right now. Um but um you know it would probably be about how you can get closer to you know the people that are um that are kind of your customers and the people that impact your customers the most. I I do think that um kind of understanding that customer care rep or the people kind of on the front line,

you know, they're the ones that are making your brand. I mean, the marketing team might make some great social posts and some great TV ads and things like that, but many times kind of the people that are manning the phones or your chats or things like that are the ones that are leaving more lasting impression on your brand than anything else. And you know, and how do you bring kind of the voice of the customer into the organization? You know, I think that's that's important. I mean like we live in a you know in our particular business I mean we are home improvement. Not everybody in our in our company is a homeowner, you know, and like how do you make sure they can kind of understand the customer and kind of what what life is like as a small business owner, as a pro, what's it like for a homeowner when something goes ary on their worst day? And kind of how do they kind of think through that problem

set? And so, how do I kind of bring those stories to life? I love that. It reminds me of Cat Cole, another amazing leader. She's the CEO of Athletic Greens and she's had various roles and and she said you you got to speak with with the people constantly who don't necessarily have the power to make the change but they have the knowledge because they're on the front lines. You have to have open lines of communication with them at all times when you're the CEO. I'm like that is so good. It's also like like General Stanley Mcristel who's a four-star general who said you still got to go out on the front lines. It's dangerous. make sure you, you know, do what you got to do. But if you're just sitting in the meeting room or in the corner office and do the occasional Zoom meeting, that doesn't work. You you got to go out and and and talk to them and and and get the feedback and listen to them and

understand what's actually happening as opposed to trying to make decisions by committees in a corner office.

Yeah. And it's like it was something that I was like early on I was like I had to convince myself that it was a good use of time. And I think that is something that kind of busy people that are kind of have lots of responsibility and are kind of you know kind of active doers overachievers. It's kind of like to kind of sit back and talk and listen feels like okay is is am I moving the needle? like it doesn't it feels a bit too squishy.

Um and so and so that's why you know so that's why you know I would treat it just like some of the other things. I'm like I will give it an hour a week. Let's do an hour. Let's see what see what happens there. And

and you know and and you know I can I could see kind of the payoff. You know it's not that I went and said I'm going to go spend 30% of my time doing this now. I can't I can't do that. Um but you know but there is an element there is a portion of time that I do dedicate

uh okay feedback both from customers uh employees sometimes people don't actually know what they want whether I think of Henry Ford or Steve Jobs or other

they would have never built a car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So so how do you how do you know how to manage the feedback? How do you know which to take and what to implement and how and they're like, you know what, I don't know if they actually know what they want. They think they do, but they might not. And so I feel like you'd be an expert at this because you've regularly gotten feedback for 30 years or so. H how do you manage through what they say versus what you actually should be doing and what you have to kind of translate to what they would want? Yeah, and that was the point I was going to bring up because I think sometimes you can kind of take this to the extreme of like this is just going to develop my product roadmap you know it's it's not but it is going to help to inform you know and it's interesting it's like when I rolled out chatting with pros for example you know I would hear things and I was like

okay I hear you let me you know like let me kind of take that back and as I as we you know we kind of took the we took the kind of the concern and didn't kind let them prescribe the product, right? And you kind of take that and you're like, "Hey, here is a a friction point. How do we improve a friction point?" And you know, and over time it was interesting because we got really good at like kind of laying out like kind of taking this feedback and not not rewriting the product roadmap, but kind of like making sure that as we improved our experience, we were kind of use thinking about those issues. And you could feel it. I could feel it come back in the conversations.

I was like, I used to have conversations when they would have, you know, they'd bring this up kind of 75% of the time and I was like, I didn't necessarily have a clear road map of what I was saying. Like, here's what's coming that's going to help alleviate that to like now I have a road map. So, I can kind of like, yep, I hear you. Here's where we're I here's where we're headed on this topic to like then things just stop coming up, right? Because, you know, they addressed it. So, um I think it's a way to stay informed, but yeah, you can't you can't just totally kind of you can't re uh realign the team every time you hear a new piece of feedback.

You've got to you've got to work it into kind of your longer term plan. Yeah, it's hard. I I I know this is growing up as somebody who it was beaten into me to be a coachable player as a as an athlete. Be coachable. Be coachable. Listen to your coaches. Listen to your teachers. So sometimes you can actually become a little bit too coachable or listen to too much feedback and it can steer you like dude you got to have an identity and you gota you got to go as opposed to just changing every day based upon random feedback. That can be tough though, right? That's a tough balance,

right? And I think part of it is also just being um kind of honest and kind listening to a conversation but also being like I can do something with that, I can't do something with that.

Yeah. Yeah. and like you know and it's like there there is a kind of having a an honest conversation where it doesn't feel like there's spin in it and you know that authenticity kind of helps to play that and you know it can be reasonable right and you know the person you're talking to like okay I understand why this is why this is not on the short-term map but this one over here is got

and so I you know I I think there is that part of it too. I'm I'm also really curious about partnerships in general and founders or co-founders and you mentioned Bill a little bit, but some sometimes you like you read about stories where these things just go really bad. Uh they fight, somebody has to quit or buy them out or they fade away or whatever. I'm I'm I'm curious from your story, what what's the key to to a good partnership? I mean I think this could apply beyond just starting a business but I am curious what have you learned over the years that that that has been the key to a good partnership. Yeah, I mean I think you know part of it is is finding someone that you know you you have confidence in and you believe in.

And I think that's one thing that we kind of found in each other, right? Um because I think you have to be able to be able to share and have contentment in kind of like I've got this, you've got this. I think if you're kind of constantly kind of having the rub where you're like I should be in charge of that, I should be in charge of that. like then I think you kind of you struggle in that. I was a good amount younger than Bill when we started. So you know he was a he was a bit of a mentor to me right in this whole process. So there was you know kind of like hey let me guide you up here and then let's carve out this area. So there was there was also there was also just an element of you know kind of him being you know kind of a a fan as well right of like hey you can do this you've got this. um uh in the process, always being able to kind of talk frankly with one another and kind of not and leave

emotion at the door, right? It's kind of like, hey, this is working or this isn't working. Um is an important element.

You eventually merged with Home Advisor, correct? Yep. How what was that like for you? How was there an identity shift or like what what was that like for you?

That happened what, eight years ago, nine years ago. Um, you know, when we first when we first brought the business together, they kind of operated pretty independently. Um, but, um, but Home Advisor was the was the brand that was being invested behind at the time. So, that was kind of a bit of a shift in kind of exposure. But but then as we came along, I mean, one of the the main thesis of kind of bringing those two businesses together was like the Angie's List brand, you combine that with, you know, the Home Advisor uh matching engine and kind of how they were kind of from a technological standpoint kind of advancing beyond where Angie's list was was interesting. And so in 2021, we actually uh brought the businesses closer together. uh flipped the name to Angie from Angie's List and ran every you know kind of built that up as the main brand. Um and you know and today you know we've also been working

together to bring even our products our pro products together and things like that. We're kind of coming to the point where it's the business is much simpler as far as a uh from a kind of customer offering which I think is great uh and kind of driving behind one brand uh which uh which simplifies makes it easier makes it relatable and I think is an easy easier story to tell. So I think it's uh I think it's it's a good spot.

So Angie, but take out the E. Like what what happened with this name change name change? Yeah, take out the E. So, uh, so if we roll back to 2011, uh, when we were getting ready to go public, uh, you, uh, you have to have either a three or fourletter ticker.

Oh, right, right, right, right. So, so I was sitting around one day. I was like, well, we could call it list. I'm like, it's kind of generic. We could call it Angie, but then I got to respell it, which, you know, I'm I don't like that. Uh, then it was like I could I could make the ticker Bill in honor of Bill, but then that's just kind of kind of odd and people wouldn't maybe not enjoy we would find it very funny. People might not enjoy that from a branding perspective. So, ended up going with Angie with an I. Uh, and so that kind of got a bit of a life of its own. Uh, and then fast forward a few years even before the merger and I was contemplating dropping the list at one point because I was like, I think we're bigger. Maybe we're EMGs, right? right?

We could be Angie's List. We got a big deal. It was be Angie's big deal. It could be Angie's whatever. Um, and then in 2021, it was like, hey, let's just let's just make it Angie. And, you know, an Angie with an I is an an easier and more identifiable unique thing than Angie with an E. So, we kind of we we we poke a little fun at it now. So, it's like I get

I'm Angie with an E. The company's Angie with an I. Um, I get notes from people for that I've known my entire life that now just spell my name with an I.

Yeah, I got you. So, I I am curious about actually hiring leaders. I think this is could be very useful when you are in a position and when you have been in positions to hire someone whether it's a promotion or hiring from outside for a leadership role. I mean, being able to do whatever the specific task is is those are table stakes, but I'm talking about attributes of a person. What are some of those musthave attributes for Angie to say, "Yep, I want you to be I want you to be a part of my my leadership team."

Yeah. I mean, I think I think it's got to be someone like subject matter expertise is always important. So, I always, you know, I'm like, you got to be good. You got to be know what you're talking about because, you know, I'm, you know, when I think about this, I like I I think about it as like, hey, if you have to be that general that needs to go out on the front line, I want to know that you can go out on the front line.

Yep. You know, because I think that speaks volumes for your team. Uh, so kind of knowing your stuff is super important. But also kind of understanding that your team is going to make you smarter, you know? So you don't want this kind of person that is like I know I'm the one that always knows the answer you know having someone that can kind of learn from their team and understand you know I'm like I spent most of my career running marketing and marketing moves fast and you know some of the you know youngest members of the team are kind of teaching are teaching me more things in the over the years than you know kind of you know even some of the more seasoned marketing people. So kind of how are you how are you constantly having kind of a a view about learning and kind of staying kind of smart in the trade. Um and then ability to kind of just be a good partner, work with people. Uh you know it's like I think that um that is

important. You know you're your job is not to come in and kind of you know knock down walls. It's actually to build relationships because we're only going to you know you're you can't do everything yourself. So, how are you at building kind of cross cross department relationships?

Yeah, I think that's super helpful. What um let's say you went back again to be a guest lecture and you're meeting with people who are recent grads and they want to leave a positive dent in the world like you're doing. What are some general pieces of lifecareer advice you'd give to them? Um, I would suggest that they uh, one of my favorites, take take your work very seriously. Be good at what you do. Um, you know, don't always be looking for kind of that next thing that you got to go tackle. Do what's on front of you first. Don't take yourself too seriously.

I think especially, you know, you kind of come out, you're like, you know, it's like, oh, I have all of these credentials. I should therefore be able to do these things. It's like, you know, sometimes sometimes the envelopes need stuffed and we might all do that together. So, don't take yourself too seriously. We're going to do this together. Um, and then, you know, be open to uh be open to feedback and to helping, you know, and to helping others. And, um, don't be afraid when kind of people suggest things that seem kind of totally counter. I think sometimes we get too rigid in our plans.

Um, you know, so I use I use the Angie's List as an example, right? Like I was supposed to be a consultant. I was supposed to go be a business consultant, but then Bill comes in and says, "Hey, what about this, you know, like I I could have easily been a business consultant and had a nice life, but I kind of chose that door." I think a lot of times people get a little too narrow in their focus and kind of miss opportunities. So, you know, stay open to open to that. And then, you know, for me, it's all about the people you work with.

So, if you you are working with people that you're learning from that believe in you, that's all that matters. I I overindex there. Um, you know, so if you find that you're not because people ask me this one, you know, ask me this question. It's like, how are you still doing this after 30 years? I'm like, I ask myself two questions. And if I can answer yes to those two questions, I'm in. If I answer no, I'm out. And the two things are, do I like the people I'm working with? And am I learning new things? And you know, kind of when you're as long in your career as I am, you know, like you have you have to dedicate time and effort to learning new things.

Um, so that you don't, you know, become that person that is like, "We do this because we've always done it this way." Which I think is just like the worst line ever.

Wow. I love those questions. Uh, what's next for you? For me, I love home improvement. I'm like I'm like I told my husband the other day

you go out and like fix stuff yourself or no you hire somebody from man. I'm like I did do some painting the other day myself but no I don't often fix things up myself but I'm like we we were like we're not going to do any like fancy new projects this year. We're just going to do what needs to be done. And you know I couldn't help myself. I'm like I redid I'm I redid the floor in my basement because um

you did it or you hire somebody from No. I like hired someone, but I was like, I needed a space that when my kids came home from college with their dogs that it was just like a free zone for everybody in the family and like best investment ever. But totally I was like, I've become that person. I'm doing things for the dogs. And somebody clarified, you're doing things for the granddogs actually.

Amazing. I love it. I I love it. I I I just got to say like I I think you you've come across as so genuine and competent and likable from before we even started recording. Like it's it's really really cool. Like it's so easy to root for someone like you to to keep crushing it. So thank you so much for for doing this. Uh where would you send my viewers listeners to learn more about you online?

Um you can go to angie.com agi.com. Man, that is How much did it cost to get that? Well, that's why you dropped the E.

But still, it's four letters. A fourletter URL, man. Uh, you guys have done done well enough to to to invest in that. That's really good, Angie. No, I I love this. I really really appreciate it, and I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress.

That's great. I would love it. Thank you.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Introvert Who Built Angie’s List (Against Every Odd) | ANGIE HICKS"?

Ryan Hawk (Host), Angie Hicks (Guest), Bill Oesterle (Guest).

What is "The Introvert Who Built Angie’s List (Against Every Odd) | ANGIE HICKS" about?

The discussion centers on Angie Hicks, the co-founder of Angie's List, exploring her journey as an introvert who defied challenges to build a successful business. Key points include the importance of authenticity in leadership, the significant shift from individual contributor to leading others, the influence of her grandfather in encouraging her entrepreneurial spirit, and the value of…

What is mentioned in this Ryan Hawk episode?

20 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Bill Austerlitz, HomeAdvisor, Angie's List, Angi, Ben Patty, Office hours (leadership practice). Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Introvert Who Built Angie’s List (Against Every Odd) | ANGIE HICKS"?

The episode runs 55 min; the transcript is about 11,401 words in 141 timestamped sections.

More from Ryan Hawk

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.