Transcript

Benedict Cumberbatch | SmartLess

From SmartLess · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 12 min · 15,306 words · 332 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Benedict Cumberbatch | SmartLess", an episode of SmartLess published November 24, 2025 (1 h 12 min, about 15,306 words). It mentions 55 people, works and ideas, including Darjeeling, Star Trek, The Thing with Feathers, Sophie Hunter, The Power of the Dog.

What this episode is about

Benedict Cumberbatch joins the hosts for a light-hearted and humorous conversation, discussing his experiences and recent activities while delving into topics such as living between homes and the challenges of maintaining personal belongings in different locations. The episode features playful banter among the hosts, setting a relaxed tone for the discussion.

Key takeaways

  • Multitasking humor beats multitasking practice; swim like you talk—one motion at a time.
  • Hot dogs on a stick and stretch limos: nostalgia that fills both heart and arteries.
  • Corn dogs need a revival; culinary elegance isn't mutually exclusive with deep-fried joy.
  • Cold opens: talking before talking; sets the scene like tentpoles for suspenseful drama.
  • Swimming lessons highlight: Arms don’t double as propellers; rotate or risk the helicopter stance.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Bob Bennett, French's, Hot Dog on a Stick, Screen Actors Guild
  2. – 20:00: Max Porter, Noises Off
  3. – 30:00: British Petroleum, Martin Freeman, Michael Bluth
  4. – 40:00: Everest, Heartbeat, Lambda, Sonada
  5. – 50:00: Alec Guinness, Doctor Strange, Jane Hawking, Lambda
  6. – 1:00:00: Sherlock, Star Trek, Cherish Notes, Doctor Strange
  7. – 1:10:00: The Thing with Feathers, Dylan Southern, Grief Is the Thing with Feathers, Ian Fleming
  8. – 1:12:28: Bob Bennett

Notable quotes from "Benedict Cumberbatch | SmartLess"

  • What if he just walked up to Scotty just started squirting French's mustard on taking big bites or licks?
    about French's · at
  • If Bennett and Rob were on the stick, they'd have your mic down before we introduce you and instead we're hearing you dropping [ __ ] Bennett. Rob. God damn it.
    about Bob Bennett · at
  • To talk about at some point. You know it feels like it is they are capable in the words of Max Porter in the novel of giving something back that isn't it's not asked for it's…
    about Max Porter · at
  • Pool which was both of which were extraordinary and any poll from Everest at all? Was it was that part of the poll at all? Cuz I've got this I've got this fascination with Everest. But should we do it? I'd like I'll do Yeah.
    about Everest · at
  • Were doing their thing, but also I funny enough I'd been my first ever film job, TV job was in Heartbeat, which is an ITV staple or was I don't know if that's in England.
    about Heartbeat · at
  • Was the first job I got. I was still at drama school, so I had to ask permission. I was only at Lambda for one year, but I had to ask permission to do the job. You're not supposed to work if you're still out of drama school.
    about Lambda · at
  • Feel that way about you. I think you know your body of work is it's unmatched. Like I mean Star Trek, Imitation Game, I can name them because I've seen them and I love them.…
    about Star Trek · at
  • All right. Well, before we let you go, we need to know about The Thing with Feathers because this So, this is this new project, you guys.
    about The Thing with Feathers · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Sophie Hunter — Person · 3 mentions
  • Bob Bennett — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Max Porter — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Timothy Carlton — Person · 1 mention · first at
    As if it wasn't enough. Benedict Timothy Carlton.
  • Martin Freeman — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Incredible, right? Oh, that is exactly how it was described once by Martin Freeman. He said, I went to a north school and Benedict went to Hogwarts, which I kind of did.
  • Michael Bluth — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And then loosen it and then roll up the sleeves cuz Michael Bluth Can I just say something just as an aside? Michael Bluth got down well he got down to business.
  • Phil Burbank — Person · 1 mention · first at
    So kind of going around as Phil Burbank going, Can I see the playback? being an [ __ ] about it. I didn't really want to have that interaction with crew.
  • Steven Hawking — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And that was playing Steven Hawking in a television drama about his life, which sort of compared to Eddie's took it up to, he was walking with.
  • Jane Hawking — Person · 1 mention · first at
    It up to, he was walking with a stick and that the speech was very impaired. still married to Jane Hawking. So it was a very it was one slice of his life, his extraordinary…
  • Thomas Alfredson — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Choice of Yeah, but you were you were not foolish to count on the taste of people like Sam Mendy's or Thomas Alfredson, but some like I said some amazing directes. So yeah.
  • Mark Strong — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Time I met Mark, I'd done a little thing with Mark Strong, so I knew him. Colin was just absurdly wonderful and lovely and nice and goofy and impressionable as well as being ridiculously smart and talented.
  • Alec Guinness — Person · 1 mention · first at
    He couldn't push this iconic Alec Guinness performance away.
  • Leah Clark — Person · 1 mention · first at
    We being the production company Sunny March, Adam, Leah Clark, and myself. And it was an approach for me to act as this dad, this man who because you were so kind in telling me it could be a real bore to describe it. I'm going to.
  • Ted Hughes — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And it's it's it's a huge homage to the literature. It was born out of the poetry of Ted Hughes. in our version, he was an academic at the book. in our version. He's a he's an…
  • Dylan Southern — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Well, thank you. that's that's mainly down to Dylan Southern who adapted the book and directed it. He's a pop documentarian by trade, as in that's what he's done up until this point. This is his first fictional narrative drama.
  • Jane Campion — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Are thick and fast. There's Kubri, there's Spielberg, there's Hitchcock. there's all sorts. There's a bit of Jane Campion in there, weirdly. But, it is just it's it's it's a…
  • Ian Fleming — Person · 1 mention · first at
    It's the original fugitive novel. It's the original and you know the huge inspiration for Ian Fleming for Bond and Yeah. And it's and it's so precient to what's going on in our times. Not to allude to that too much.
  • Michael Frayn — Person · 1 mention
  • Peter Guillam — Person · 1 mention
  • Sam Mendes — Person · 1 mention
  • Wanda Ventham — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Star Trek — Book · 3 mentions · first at
  • The Thing with Feathers — Book · 3 mentions · first at
  • The Power of the Dog — Book · 3 mentions
  • Heartbeat — Book · 2 mentions · first at
  • Doctor Strange — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    Imitation Game, I can name them because I've seen them and I love them. And Doctor Strange and Austo Sage County and the [ __ ] Smog and I mean your [ __ ] Smog and The Hobbit. that's crazy to me, and on. And recently, the roses, I.
  • Sherlock — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    Or that asks questions or is worth actually seeing the 78th or whatever I was version of Sherlock Holmes. you have to just go, yeah, no, it's going to be all right. And that it's it's not arrogance. it's.
  • Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy — Book · 2 mentions
  • Noises Off — Book · 1 mention · first at
    With watching them in their prime doing what they did. And I remember my dad in cast of Noises Off this amazing Michael Frame play that's [clears throat] about it's a fast…
  • To Kill a King — Book · 1 mention · first at
    [ __ ] long way into the story but with the maybe the only bits boring but yeah to kill a king is that is first feature film role. I don't remember. Maybe that was my first Yeah.
  • Patrick Melrose — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Where I thought I'm I'm just doing this and I think it's right. Patrick Melrose would probably be one because I've partied, but that guy was other level. And I think the choices I made with him,.
  • The Hobbit — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Doctor Strange and Austo Sage County and the [ __ ] Smog and I mean your [ __ ] Smog and The Hobbit. that's crazy to me, and on. And recently, the roses, I thought it was just like that was that was a total minefield. You could.
  • Grief Is the Thing with Feathers — Book · 1 mention · first at
    A widow. And it's about their first year as a family and it's based on an amazing novella called grief is the thing with feathers.
  • Rogue Male — Book · 1 mention · first at
  • This Is This Thing On — Book · 1 mention · first at
    You too. You too. Will sorry I've got to say Will before we sign off. You were phenomenal in this is this thing on.
  • 1917 — Book · 1 mention
  • The Imitation Game — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • French's — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • Lambda — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • Hot Dog on a Stick — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. Hot Dog on a stick was a big was a big spot out here with the funny multicolored hats. how do you guys know? Never heard of it.
  • Screen Actors Guild — Company · 1 mention · first at
    But most importantly, he's got a wife, he's got three sons, and one of the best names in the Screen Actors Guild directory. Friends, say hello to Benedict Cumberbatch.
  • British Petroleum — Company · 1 mention · first at
    [ __ ] what's Target, Tesco and British Petroleum. Tannis and Shanley are my sisters and my brother's name is Chuck aka Charles. So anyway, we I was at board, but I went when I was 12. And you.
  • Marks & Spencer — Company · 1 mention
  • Tesco — Company · 1 mention
  • The Greenwich Hotel — Company · 1 mention
  • Working Title Films — Company · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Empath — Concept · 2 mentions
  • Cherish Notes — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Theater in London, they have this thing called in and the barbecue they have this called Cherish Notes. And I've never heard of this until I went over there. And I'm and I had…
  • Frozen shoulder — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Way over the years. Not the particular but I basically had a torn rotator cuff and then also a frozen shoulder on top of it which is do the repair to the rotator which was a complete tear. M and I'd lived with chronic pain for.

Places & events

  • Darjeeling — Place · 4 mentions
  • Everest — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • Sonada — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Is in the foothill so going towards Dariling and it's a little hillstation town called Sonada and it was a converted Nepalese house and at the top was this monastery this…
  • Yorkshire — Place · 1 mention · first at
    A very nostalgic police drama set in the on the Yorkshire Dales and or was it the Moors? Sorry, Yorkshire. God, Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon and C. No, Deon and Dorset. It's Devon, by the way. That's.
  • Yorkshire Dales — Place · 1 mention · first at
    A very nostalgic police drama set in the on the Yorkshire Dales and or was it the Moors? Sorry, Yorkshire. God, Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon and C. No, Deon and Dorset. It's Devon, by the way. That's.
  • Hawke's Bay — Place · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

Hey Sean. Hey. What's up? Hey, it's me. I know it's you. You just said your name. I know. I'm just talking to you. Just relax about it. Hey, we're about to do another episode of Smart List. Hey, for Tracy, cold open. This is a cold open. Cold open is like, "Hey, she knows what cold open is." I hate shut up. I'm talking to her right now. Just give me two seconds. I got to explain what cold open is. She knows what a cold open. She said it a million times. Ah, Tracy, cold open is what you say at the beginning of an episode before you start the episode so people know you're starting the episode. I'm exhausted. Me, too.

Me as well. Don't forget about me. also me. Welcome to Smart List. Smart L. Smart L. Smart L.

Uh-oh. What was that? Gone. Oh god. That was probably our surprise guest. Our surprise guest fell.

He probably just He Oh no. Oh no. Uh where are So let's see. Everybody is at home base it seems like. Uh Willie, where are you?

I'm in Mon Island. [sighs and gasps] Oh, you're back there. What are you doing back there?

Our little I just made a little quick scoot out here for uh for a night. What did you like forget a pair of shoes you really liked out there?

No, Jason. No, but I mean, seriously, isn't it a hassle trying to figure out what you're going to keep in your second home's closet versus um what's back in Los Angeles?

Is it mostly winter wear out there on the island? There's a lot of a lot of winter wear. I And it's And it's chilly out here right now, so it's been really It was beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Um

No, I came out here with my little guy uh yesterday and just to kind of stick around. We were walking around, went into town, went to the bookstore. Well, that's nice.

Um, yeah, it cranked up the the pool even though it's cold out, which is real fun.

And, uh, yeah, and just super nice. I got Does he swim yet? Yeah, he does, you know. Yes, he's he's in the process.

He sings slowly now. Slower. Yeah, he's he's five, so he's not But he's come a long way. Like he's, you know, he does that thing where like he can swim underwater,

you know? So they whatever they don't can't do in terms of strokes, they just can do it underwater.

Get Hey, hey, Dad. That means he can't swim. Okay. No. Swimming is trying to keep yourself buoyant and above.

I know. I know. You know, I know. I can't really swim either. Did you guys Yeah, I was petrified.

Are you Are you a Are you a weak swimmer? Yeah, I can't. I don't know how to do it. I run out of breath in like 10 seconds. No. Truly. Yeah. I don't I can't I don't have the I don't have the lung support to swim.

That's not true. Well, you have lung support to swim. If you swim, you don't need how do you not have the lung you don't need to hold your breath if you can actually swim.

Yeah. But the actual aerobic kind of movements that make your heart pump faster than you have to breathe faster. I just fail really quickly at it.

Uhhuh. Okay. Do you know what I mean? I mean, hang on, hang on. I do this one. I just want to take this one apart a little bit.

I can't be the only person that can't swim. No, you're not. But but do do you you get too tired to keep yourself um from drowning?

That's what it is. Well, is that because you're panicking and so you're catching you're short of breath?

No, I think maybe I just do too much too quickly. I don't realize how to I don't know how to swim. So, I paddle really fast. Then I use up all my energy really immediate panic.

Yeah. I wish I wish people could see the motions that Shaunie's doing. Shnie, do you did you ever take swim lessons? Clearly not.

He's moving both hands at the same time, listener, instead of, you know, most of us rotate right hand, left hand, right arm, left arm.

I only know a But Sean, you can you exercise and you don't run out of breath. So

I know. I don't understand it. So what about like walking up a bunch of steps? Like if if you walk up too many stairs, you don't just like collapse and roll down the stairs, right?

No. No, no, I don't. I don't know what it is about the swimming or the pool. go slower up the stairs so she can make it.

Are you swimming like Have you got a corn? I don't float, right? Well, none of us.

That's surprising. Do you I mean, have you got like a corn dog in your hand? What's going on that you

By the way, I love a corn dog. It should be noted in the pool. I [ __ ] love a corn.

I really I do too. And I feel like they've kind of um gone by the way of like the bungee jumping and things like that. It it I would know if I put them in the stretch limousine category is buggy jumping.

I want to know where all the stretch limousines and the corn dogs have gone. But you get some you get a corn dog. You get a corn dog and you dip it in some just yellow Frenches mustard.

Yes, that's the best. Forget it. I know. What about some of a little cheese? Little cheese dip.

Cheese dip. Throw it in. I'll take a cheese dip. A little tub of cheese. I'll do that.

Yeah. Hot Dog on a stick was a was a big was a big spot out here with the with the funny multicolored hats. Um, how do you guys know? Never heard of it.

Yeah, we had a bunch of those like in the valley. There was some out at the beach. Sean, I'm surprised you're you're not a hot dog on a stick guy.

I don't I'm I'm Who says I'm not? I I'd try it. I'll try it. No, no, no. But I mean, that was like that was a famous That was a great spot.

What about a What about a I had this discussion with some What about a pig in a blanket?

Yeah, I do enjoy those. Sure. and a puff pastry. Anything. Speaking of which, I have not seen Scotty in a long time.

Yeah, he's just around. Oh, yeah. He's all tidied up on the couch. I'm sorry. No, that's a that's a bear and a comforter. Sorry, I I've confused the two.

Cub. Yeah, a cub and a comforter. Oh my. It's a cub comforter. Scotty's going to kick my ass when he sees me next. That's really funny.

Well, listen, that's a great cue for just hand over and he's on a couch just in like a Snuggie.

Yeah. What if he just walked up to Scotty just started squirting French's mustard on

taking big bites or licks? Here it goes. Here goes. Um, guys, we got a real live one today. All right. This guest is a man with talent. Okay.

Looks smarts. Uh oh. He's got many nominations, plenty of wins, box office sock, critical respect. He's got massive dramatic range, razor sharp comedic skills, and a British accent. That's the triple crown.

But most importantly, he's got a wife, he's got three sons, and one of the best names in the Screen Actors Guild directory. Friends, say hello to Benedict Cumberbatch.

No kidding. Come on out. It's also got I was two middle names too. Two middle names.

What are they? What are they? As if it wasn't enough. Benedict Timothy Carlton.

Timothy Carlton. It gets better. I use them on off days. No, that's dad's name. It's just it's a thing of just trying to squeeze the whole family into one small child.

Benedict Timothy. Carl. What is it again? Carlton. Carlton. Carlton Cumberbatch.

Yeah. Fabulous. Yeah. How are you? So nice to meet you. Drink them in, you guys.

I'm good. But I mean, I'm already I mean, I'm just I can't I can't I've got a RTUS grin on my face. I can hardly speak. Not only because of that absurdly nice introduction, but

it's a it's a real privilege to listen to the top of the show as your surprise guest. And I was kind of thinking, oh Christ, if I laugh if I laugh, will they hear me laugh? Would you you completely moose me at the beginning?

If if Bennett and Rob were on the stick, they'd have your mic down before we introduce you and instead we're hearing you dropping [ __ ] Bennett. Rob. God damn it.

No, there was a sound like my body dropping with shock at being your surprise guest. And that was that that I am in my house with my wife and a forementioned three kids. So that was probably the wind catching a door. Let's hope it's not a tantrum because that might not be how we're an intruder.

They are. Yeah, guys, I got to go. Actually, this is quite serious. Don't get murdered on the show.

No, I'd be great. Great. I would be first ratings. The boys are how old? 6, eight, and 10. eight and 10. Well planned.

Yeah. Jesus. Was that on purpose? Kind of. Let's do two years apart. Kind of. Yes. We just want We did want to get on with it. Yeah. And Sophie's a trooper. She's amazing.

Oh god. Good thinking. I didn't for some reason uh you know cuz I'm People know I'm super bright. Um I I missed it. Uh I wanted three and I just didn't plan it well and there's a five-year gap between the two and then we just got to we just aged out. couldn't have a third, you know.

Oh, great story. Hey, um that's a by the way. Or you could do what I did. Just have the gap anyway and then just, you know.

Oh, and just reload. Yeah. Sorry. Hang on. There's a better way to say that. There's a better way to say that.

So, speak rolling. Unload. Let's reset. [clears throat and laughter] What? Oh, Jesus. Benedict, is that something the three the three kids is it something that is like did you guys agree to a number or was it just like well we're living life and this is what happened?

Sophie comes from three and no I'm an only child so I panicked when our second was on the way and you know what do you do? Do you divide yourself? How do you love as much both things without necessarily having more time to do that? And

you know there are the odd moments when you're on a kind of solo date with them with one of them and you kind of go am I really cheating you out of a lot of this

but then you see them when they're not trying to kill each other getting on as friends and think no I've given you the gift of a lifetime that will outlast me you have three

you have two people in your life that will always be there whether you want it or not at times but you know it's it's amazing so I I I swung around to the idea pretty quickly and I I love it. I love they're like a kind of

tribe of cubs rolling around. Yeah. You you you sort of like you started to go there a bit on like as I thought about that when I had my second kid. I was like, "Oh, wait. Am I going to be able to love this one as much as I love the first one?" And you're like,

"Are you an only child?" Uh, no. No. I I have a sister. It just acts like one. Yeah.

What are you saying? But no, like when I had when when we had Maple, wait, we already had Franny. Then 5 years later, we have Maple and I was so crazy about Franny. And then here comes Maple, right? A stranger comes into the house, brand new baby, and you're just like, well, I I I can't wait to get to know you. I hope I love you as much as the first one, and like what you It's a tall order.

I'd love to. Um, no, but then she'll be talking about therapy. No, I I think a lot of parents probably go through that, right? Whether you're aware of it or not.

It's a very I think it's a very natural reaction because the first time you have a child, it is oh your entire all of it changes. The orbit of the world, the way you see your parents, your place in that whole thing is just utterly realized at a very real moment. And and that is it is what I'm trying to say. You think, "Oh, this is it. This is what life's about." And you go, "Oh, no, but it's until the next one. It has to be the same." And it is. But it's weird. It's it's the same as women forgetting most of the time, but you know that physiologically forget apparently the birth pain about what women go through.

I can't imagine otherwise why would your human body even want to be able to be impregnated just the whole thing

or wear heels focuses on this it heals and sure we're just you know go ahead will I'm not expanding on that. No you don't want to touch that one please. I don't want to touch any of it. But uh but it is funny. And what what's amazing too is uh is how different and God I'm like the quadrillionth person to bring this up but I also have three boys uh Benedict and how entirely different they are

from each other. Absolutely. Even my boys who are less than two years apart are so vastly different personal personalitywise

and had virtually the same experience growing up, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I've said this before. What What do you What's your take on this, Benedict? How much do you think is nature? How much do you think is nurture? Right. Because these three boys, it's all nature, right? I mean, you can nurture. I think Here we go. Answering the question for the guests again, which I love to do. Um I think it's like five or 10% you can move your kid, good or bad. Otherwise, you just you get what you get. If they're going to be fantastic, they're fantastic. If they're going to be a challenge, they're going to be a challenge. You can have the best parents in the world. And it's just you get what you get. What do you think?

Well, um I I don't know. I think you're right about they arrive with something that's beyond our understanding really. There is this thing which if you're really open to it, especially those first sort of five, seven years and you present the world as a thing that's open and full of wonder and a safe place and full of magic as we very much know sometimes in reality it isn't. But if you give them that space just to be themselves, you do see these extraordinary creatures just become something of their own accord.

But I think it does need a lot of nurture and love. However, you know, you're right within that they do things which

are certainly to do with nature because how can a child give you love in a time of need as an adult which I've experienced in my family and and it's partly to do with the film we're going to talk about at some point. You know it it feels like it is they are capable in the words of Max Porter in the novel of giving something back that isn't uh it's not asked for it's not caused by anything other than them having an empathy or a link or an understanding of what love is human instinct you're inately born with and yeah and I think without getting too wishy-washy about it if I haven't already [snorts]

that is nature that is something sent from somewhere else start crying in the first 15 minutes we're going to have a problem.

Jason, uh, real quick, empathy is um, explain this to him. No, I think it's it's Yeah, it's it's it's it's uh it's it's a mindblower.

It is a mindblower. It is a mindblower. I'd have 12 kids if I could. Yeah. I I I think they they're here to teach us really. So, like you say, I think it is I don't know about percentiles, but it's mostly nature. They are inertly

innately not inertly in very much actively wonderful. Let's uh let's go let's go back there with you Benedict your childhood. So you say you say you were an only child and you were born to two actors. Yes. Mom and dad.

Mom and dad Wonder Vantham and Timothy Colton. That's amazing. Right. It's so it's so common on our show too when we have somebody as prolific as you that it seems like they always come from an artist's family.

Yeah. But rare rarely two actors though, right? Usually they're sculptors or poets or something like that. But um so then uh I'm sure the answer would be no to the question of was there pressure to become an actor. Uh it was probably just something that you were just naturally interested in because you saw your two first heroes doing that a little. And also I was if anything pressured the other way like don't do what we're doing. It's a stupid way to spend a life. Uh, look how parapathetic and useless we are at other things and how family life is a chaotic jumble of loose end commitments that have to be abandoned at the last minute because dad's got an advert audition. I mean, it was just,

you know, they were they they did really really well in their careers. Mom, especially commercially, dad brilliantly as well in the theater. He did a lot of the role court in the early days of

kitchen sink drama there. But, but the point is, you know, they they wanted me to have the opportunities that they didn't or that they didn't have in their life as my parents. Um, and they afforded me an education where I could have gone on to be a lawyer or something of that. That was the only other thing I flirted with, which is why I say that I I did for a while.

Sean flirted with a lawyer in the parking lot. And then I got taken to court for it.

But what do you mean? They they wanted But Benedict, they they wanted you have access to opportunity to something uh uh more predictable um in in your life. Uh career-wise,

I think it's something more stable definitely. Um and um but the bug had bit really and it was very much to do with watching them in their prime doing doing what they did. And you know, I remember my dad in uh cast of Noises Off this amazing Michael Frame play

that's [clears throat] about it's a fast within a fast. It's this amazingly kaleidoscopic brilliant examination of a British tradition of comedy which obviously you guys know called fast. My mom was doing the real thing, but and even the real fastes that were, you know, very dubon tandre heavy, very misogynistic and homophobic at times as well to the point I said, "Mom, you really can't do another play where you walk into a room where your husband is having his pants pulled down by his male PA and it looks like fellatio." Um whereas in fact, he's just trying to give him a quick change and his trousers and stuff. I can't I can't be your son and call myself proud if you keep doing this. Um but but I do remember perversely to that embarrassment sort of sitting in the wings and watching her go through and just be mom and sort of chatting to me and saying hello to the SM and then just kind of opening the door in this light

and heat and noise of what was happening in front [snorts] of those flats hitting her and her just transforming just in the blink of an eye and I thought what is that? What just happened to my mom? Where did she go?

And yeah, I kind of got a taste for that. And as an only child, I think you're kind of already locked in a bit to quite a solitary imaginary universe. Um,

when was it that you understood what they were kind of talking about? Um, when it comes to the the the career that you can't really count on. Um, like how young were you and and do you remember that moment of going, "Yeah, but I I get it's unpredictable, but I still want to go for it and and try it."

Uh, numerous occasions. I I'm too old to really remember but still today. It's still today. Exactly. Right. For all of us now. I think

I think a bit. Yeah. Am I really doing this? I am doing I you know there were there were moments when I thought [clears throat] okay sage advice from ones who know but I'm going to do it differently. I think I've got a different way into this.

Yeah. And I don't know that it will be different. And in fact really all I wanted was what they have which is a career and respect from their peers and and having a good time doing a job they love. you know that that's what a great way to live your life.

Yeah. Yeah. You were you were chasing the right thing. So, you know, my way of doing it differently was perhaps going, okay, well,

the things that you've you've done in your maybe I don't know. I don't know. But I I I knew I was throwing I knew I was throwing it to the wind and I knew I was chancing it. But I think the moment I thought I can't really not do this is when I got serious uh about A levels before going to college at university in in England. Obviously and uh I yeah I met a lot of lawyers who were saying look turn back now people who were doing bar exams or people who were who had made it into um to being part of a chambers or even people practicing going it's just it's really pretty hard it's an overs subscribed profession it's very yeah you're only going to your last case I thought that sounds very familiar why am I doing this which would have required an inordinate amount of work on my part and not that smart at all and I I would have had to work so hard

for what for for those bigger a risk at least the credential the the the the the stuff you come out of college with, you are somewhat guaranteed a a base salary and and and some and some future to it. Whereas with uh anything in in the arts, uh you don't have that. And so if if one if one or two or three of your boys said, "Hey, I want to go into acting." Would you uh what would you as a father would you recommend that they dedicate

the requisite number of years needed to kind of build a base uh or would you say uh

to have a backup? You mean or put that time into something that is a bit more um predictable you can count on. Yeah.

As a parent of course. Yeah. because you worry about what the world will be, let alone what their talent will be or won't be recognized as and where their ambitions and dreams are and their expectations and what the reality is and the gap between that. You know, you never know that you're going to get to where you want to be. So, you

I just tell I tell my kids all the time, roll the dice. I'm always like, just roll the dice.

Just [ __ ] Yeah. I'm afraid, you know, I did it. I did it. So, yeah. Well, how can I how can I how can I turn them away from something that I ended up doing? So,

actually, you know what's funny? You know what's funny though? I will say what the difference now is well one of my sons I think is is going to likely pursue something in the arts and the other one is

yeah and the and and well he's sort of leading that way and the other one is not he's and I he was talking about some areas and I here's the thing that they're talking about with amongst their friends he's uh it's my eldest son he's he's uh he's a junior in high school here so he's 17 he says um I said

they have to talk about the what what are the jobs out there going forward that are going to be affected by AI

and so so kids are thinking about like you know they don't want to become computer programmers or they're not going to become you know things like graphic design well by the way go down lawyers as well legal work all that stuff is going to be handled by AI so now you're not competing against other kids you're competing against the computers of the world

right right I know I know I know I it's I don't I don't I don't envy them right now

and I We Yeah, we we're avoiding the fact that AI is massively in in our industry as well. It's just

Exactly. Of course it is. Yeah. What's safe? Um All right. Uh before we It's evening here and I just can you see I can't

It just got really dark there. Yeah, it got really really dark. It's very moody.

That's very nice. It's beautiful. Oh, nice. Now we can see you. Is that better?

Oh, Benedict got it. Oh, it's Ben. Oh, it's Benedict Cumberbatch. Um All right. So, like like Sweet Willie Arnette, you uh did some time in boarding school. Was that a positive experience or was it uh challenging? Because I get homesick real easy. That that would be tough for me.

How long have we got? Um I I just the perfect mixture of both. I'd say I the first one was amazing. I mean, I'm an only child as I keep saying it. I I had a bander brothers for the first time in my life. Yeah, that was

Yeah, that was easy street to 13 and then 30 the whole adolescence thing and it was a single sex one and it [snorts] was at the sort of top of a hill looking down over the London basin and yet so oh so very far away from it and I just thought this isn't quite right this isn't real the demographic was very narrow and no girls and I just I I the school itself was extraordinary some amazing teachers and fantastic experiences but at that point I was like okay the boarding thing I think I'm done with not because I was homesick but because I just I guess I wanted to be part of a broader community. Um

but that's a healthy thing. That's also a very healthy thing to be straining away. It was that was me leaving the nest. I was already a home lever, I guess, at the age of eight. I I boarded when I was eight.

We'll be right back. And now back to the show. Wait, so Ben, you were eight when you went away. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How old were you? That's I was 12, but my roommate had come from uh when I was 12, I was in seventh grade. My roommate had just come from boarding school in England, and he had been there since he was seven.

Yeah. Uh I bet it's easier when you go younger, right, Will, than when you're older because you just you've you've you've you've created those relationships once you once you were way younger.

Yes. I I mean, I I'll sort of I'll sort of uh um jump on what Benedict said, which is you do create now. I have siblings. cuz I have uh two older sisters and a younger brother.

Quick, what are their names? [ __ ] what's Target, Tesco and and British Petroleum. Tannis and Shanley are my sisters and my brother's name is Chuck aka Charles. So anyway, we I was at board, but I went when I was 12. And you do have and I'm still friends with some of those guys that I went to school with because in those formative years, you know, uh that and I also was just all boys. When I went all boys, it's now co-ed.

Um but it is, you know, when I when I look back on it now and I don't know how you feel about a benedict, but I look the idea of my boys going away, there's no [ __ ] way,

right? I know. I couldn't stand. No, not unless they really want to, but no way. No way. No way. And Sophie's the same mindset, you know. We do. Yeah. And selfishly, I want them around. I want to be

Yeah. Even summer camp, even whatever would over dad, however pushed away I am, I still want to be there in case the call comes, the fool happens. The the need.

Yeah. So, can I ask a question to the group here? Yeah. Cuz I don't have I mean,

just let me look at the clock real quick. Okay. Yeah. If you make it quick. Yes.

Yeah. Benedict, get comfortable. This is going to be a long question. Oh [ __ ] Took took his jacket off when you asked a question.

It's on you. No. Is is what is the Cuz I don't know about boarding school. Why would a parent send their kid to boarding school?

Better education focus. Okay. Um yes question. Amazing facilities. Uh very immersive educational experience where you know you have well the beginning of it anyway. You have a very structured timetable. So you there's sort of purpose to your day. Uh it's very fulfilling.

God, I sound like a brochure, but it Yeah, because it always sounds like a jail or something, but

I know they're very plush places that it's like Hogwarts. It's like incredible, right? Oh,

that is exactly how it was described once by Martin Freeman. He said, "I went to a north school and Benedict went to Hogwarts," which I kind of did. It wasn't wizard school, but it was it was a particularly old one.

It is. But it is true. And you know, think about all those things. you learn how to, you know, by the time I got to college age and I dropped out quickly uh uh from college, but and part of it was because everybody, my peers who were there who did not go to boarding school, it was their first time away from home and I'd been away from home so so much earlier

that getting out I was ready to get out of the world. I was like, "Fuck all that. I'm ready to go. I've been I've been looking

having a frat party and like is it cool to Yeah. And you're like, no, I've already done this."

True, true, true, true. And I think I don't know. I would I I I'm here and I I've come out of it. Okay. And I wouldn't really change it. I wouldn't know what I'd change it to. I didn't have any other experience. But

like Jason, who taught you how to tie tie a tie? Oh, that would have been set dresser. Uh the onset costumeumer for Arrested Development. Um

is that true? Yeah. Really? But I I I did really really nail it down on that cuz I had to tie a tie every freaking day

and then loosen it and then loosen it and then roll up the sleeves cuz Michael Bluth Can I just say something just as an aside? Michael Bluth got down well he got down to business. He was rolling up those sleeves.

If you go back and you watch Jason till to this day. Well, you you've given me a full complex about that because that's just that's just Jason. That's not Michael Blue. It's just I always roll up my sleeves on a button-down shirt. And I still do it to this day. And I think I hear your stupid [ __ ] GMC voice every morning when I roll up my sleeves. Getting down to business. Stupid [ __ ] All right. Now,

how long how long how long have you two known each other? Was that was that when you two first met on Arrested Development? I think too long.

Yeah. And now we're stuck on this podcasting. I know. So, um, now you must you guys, it's such a blast being. I have to say I'm I'm a huge huge fan of this show and it's just it's one of these things one of my best friends put me on to said if you you got to hear the I mean I I love all of your work individually, but the

Yeah, it's a very good thing you've got going here. It's fantastic to now listen back to you. You must have enjoyed the education at the boarding school enough

pets when I said that. You've become you become a teacher yourself and you teach English what

in a Tibetan community. Oh, good. Untrue. Just outside of Djarang, India. Huh? Yeah.

Yes. I like that. Um especially the pronunciation darling. That's no I I was I say

how do you say that? We should all now say it darling. Um wait what is it? Did you go to Djaring darling? No, Dargiling. I think

Dargiling. That's it. Dargiling. Darling. Did you go to Jarling? No, I didn't have the the time.

That's great. My My My dad has this habit of doing He says, "Oh, I think I'm going to go to Marks and Spencer's and buy a Miles." Dad, what? You're a trained actor. What did I do? Well,

every summer in Aiza, I I I like to de Jay, you know, for like for like a week or two, I'll go down there to JJ.

Jay. So de Jay so now sorry yes so so it is true you so you taught you taught English in a Tibet community.

Yeah I mean it's a teacher is a very loose term. I I kind of turned up and they giggled at me which was a fair enough cultural exchange. Well no it was very unfair. I learned so much as you can imagine. I was a

19-year-old kid who knew nothing who'd come from a very kind of you know enclosed private school um you know boarding school education. And it was the first talk at the school that we had given to us. This is the kind of school I went to. We got given talks about what you could do with your year out if you wanted to take one between uh school and university school and u and uh college.

Yeah. Little gap year. A little gap year. Exactly. And it was the first one I heard about and I just went I didn't really listen to it being about teaching. It was all about being close to Tibetan culture. I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought I have to do this. There's nothing. And people, what don't you want to volunteer in Africa? Don't you want to climb a mountain or do all these amazing opportunities? And I I just was deaf to all of them because of how strongly I felt I needed to do this.

And what was the pull to the Tibetan culture? When did that start? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe in a previous lifetime. I I really don't know. Um I I I mean I was fascinated by it visually and I knew a bit about Buddhism, but it was just so overwhelming and as was the experience I had. There was six months of well five months of teaching and then um some some uh tourism tied it to the ending about

wandering about India. Yeah. And the pool which was both of which were extraordinary and

any poll from Everest at all? Was it was that part of the poll at all? Cuz I've got this I've got this fascination with Everest. But

should we do it? I'd like I'll do Yeah. I want to get at least a base camp in my lifetime. Wouldn't

I would, but you know, then you hear about how much pollution there is, how much tourism and craziness there is, and I kind of go, "Well, maybe there's a better amount in towards

watch watch how quickly we can turn Jason off uh Everest." Do you know how dirty it is, Jason?

Wait, what? Yeah. Wait, what? And the tents the tents dirty. I just shower every night. You know,

they don't have showers. They don't change the linens. No, they don't change the linens.

You can't use sanitizer. That would be scary. Yeah. Yeah. Um but uh all right so that was uh

so was it the landscape did have a pool in all seriousness of course it did it's it's such an extraordinary bit of geography that whole area and this this is in the foothill so going towards Dariling and it's a little hillstation town called Sonada

and it was a converted Nepalese house and at the top was this monastery this prayer room below was the monk's accommodation the eating area and then a small teaching area and I might have got the height all numbers of levels wrong but I was basically very much on the bottom autumn and it was really we were high up in what 4,000 mters something like that and

oh my god you open the window and it was sort of coming into autumn and winter there so the clouds would literally roll in like dry ice through the window and it was absolutely extraordinary

um and pretty basic my dad reminded me his panic this is pre- cell phones I'm that old and uh and the internet as well I'm that old um and it was a moment where I'd written in tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny scroll on a blue air mail letter home one weekend. Uh, don't worry, Dad. All the cold is solved now in my room as I have a gas heater and I've managed to block all the vents. And he was reading it going, "Oh my god, he's going to die of carbon monoxide poison." I didn't but you know might explain a few brain cells less that I have now but it was it was very basic but very romantic very hard very lonely very elating very inspiring and spiritually mind-blowing and utterly mundane and it was clean yourself how do I clean myself how do you um

like how do you talking about how many days how many days Sean's talking to somebody off camera.

He's setting up the weekend. He's talking to his dog, licking its balls. How do you do that?

We all want to know, Sean. We all want to know. I'll show you. And that's my teaching class. That's my teaching.

He's talking to somebody else. Show me after when I'm done. I'm doing the podcast and show me.

Sean, your mic's still hot. I can't wait to see. Show you, show me after. No, I'm recording a podcast. I'm doing it now. But you start Start now. They can't see. Start.

Okay. Breaking. I want to know. Right. Okay. Back to business. What the [ __ ] What? What was your question about? But how do I clean myself?

Yeah. Even the real in general but it's not a straight up in the house. Well, no. When you melted snow,

when you're out there in a tent for what? Days, weeks, what do you how do you what do you do?

No, no, no, no. I was in a house. I was in a house. Oh, next question. All right. She's filling in for someone this week.

I thought you were in a tent. A zipper or buttons? A zipper or buttons? Show me a zipper.

Do you need a lofah back there? SCOTTY, GET THE LOFAH. UM, all right. So, uh, let's let's move to now. Now, so we're back we're back from, uh, de Jarling and we're we're going to we're going to make a the DJ. We're back from DJing

and we're going to make a career of this acting thing and we're going to go for the acting and we get we get a little bit of momentum going and we're on our first film set

which is well that's a lot that's a [ __ ] long way into the story but with the maybe the only bits boring but yeah

to kill a king is that is first feature film role. Uh, I don't remember. Maybe that was my first Yeah.

But do you remember Do you remember what that first being on a being on a set for the first time? How did that How did that jive with what you had you you'd gone through all this great theater education, acting education, and then you're on a set and you see all the equipment and and you're just doing little bits at a time as opposed to theater. like how how did that strike you this this this uh film process?

I just remember I remember small snippets of D Grace Scott being very lovely and serious and smoky voiced and

I remember Junior Ryan Tut being very sort of funny and witty and just being incredibly on it. Um and uh and me laughing quite a lot. I don't remember anything that I did in front of camera. I I didn't come away going, "Oh, wow. Yeah, okay. Camera work. Interesting. I not not not because it was a bad experience. I just I'm being genuine about my lack of memory of that particular experience.

You don't remember being scolded for looking at the camera. Did I? Maybe I have. Maybe you spoken to the director.

No, no, no. Going that that would be that would be that would be my fault. Yeah. Well, no. So, I mean, I guess I guess well, two things. I suppose mom and dad helped in that regard a little bit. Not cuz they rehearsed me or anything like that. nothing stage mommy, but just I guess I was a little bit aware of what you do and don't do on a set, having been on a couple where they were doing their thing, but but also

I I funny enough I'd been my first ever film job, TV job was in Heartbeat, which is an ITV staple or was I don't know if that's um in England.

Uh a very nostalgic uh police drama set in the on the Yorkshire Dales and um or was it the Moors? Sorry, Yorkshire. God, Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon and C. No, Deon and Dorset. It's Devon, by the way. That's what we filmed. Um, see, I do listen to your show. Um, and I I I just remember being very nervous on Heartbeat. I do remember that very very well. And just wondering, am I any good? I don't know what I'm doing. I And I know there's something capturing everything I'm doing. Unlike an audience which has this kind of multi- camera perspective, and you can't watch yourself back, but you can. And I really wanted to, but I didn't. But I kind of wanted to know what the [ __ ] am I doing? Am I am I is am I doing too much, too little?

Because you didn't get any feedback like you were used to from like an audience, you know, from doing theater. Was that it? No.

No. None. Because it's just a very, you know, welloiled machine, a crew that been doing it for literally decades. And

um yeah, it was just very kind of, oh well, I hope that's all right. I hope I get to work again, you know. And it was the first job I got. I was still at drama school, so I had to ask permission. I was only at Lambda for one year, but I had to ask permission to to do the job. You're not supposed to work if you're still out of drama school.

Yeah. I don't know if that's changed. I hope it has in many ways. But And now you mentioned uh uh not being able to see yourself back. Do do I ask I ask actors this, do you watch yourself act? And if so,

have you have you uh treated yourself to looking at your older work? And do you see a big difference between how you used to act versus today? And is that a is that a do do you do you applaud yourself for having gotten better, different? How so? Smaller, bigger. Do do you do that? Do you watch yourself?

No. No. I'm not I'm not my own my own sort of crazy fan. And I don't mean that in a sort of it's only vanity that does that. It is that could could be an incredibly useful thing to do, but I'm not quite that

for me it is. Yeah. I'm not a pre precision tool in that way. I I kind of um [snorts] no I'm not going to compare myself to what I have done. It's always about where I'm at at the moment and

that the the need to see some reflection of what what is going on. Is it registering? And also to have that conversation with the director going no I think I think I know what you wanted and I I was trying to do something else. Can we can we go again so I can try and give you something nearer what you want. seen now that that's not quite that doesn't quite fit it and [snorts] put the character and the movement and whatever it is. I mean I it's it's a really hard thing to generalize about because I I guess I've

been stretched like gum in all sorts of directions uh as a as an actor. So I can't really be specific. I certain things like I think Power of the Dog I never I don't think I ever watched a playback on that because I just I knew I was in and either it was [ __ ] or or it was happening and

I just had to just be that guy anyway. So kind of going around as Phil Burbank going, "Can I see the playback?" You know, being an [ __ ] about it. I I didn't really want to have that interaction with crew

and I wanted to have the arrogance of the character. So you strike me as somebody who's who's who's skilled enough, talented enough, in touch with yourself enough to really be able to direct yourself to a certain extent and know whether it's good or bad. Do how much how much do you how much do you defer to a director? You mentioned, you know, well, I I I know what you want is let me do another one to see if see if I can do what you want. Will you will you shape a performance for a director? Will you do what a director wants you to do or what what what is your opinion on that? Like whose character is I think I've been very very lucky with the caliber of director.

Well, thank you for what you just said first of all, but I also think it is it is about how lucky I've been with the caliber of director. you know, I I form trust with that person and so therefore can

filter my own inner sense of whether I was [ __ ] or good, bad or indifferent and and and match it to to their uh honesty about it. Um the best directors as well often give you a prompt that turns everything around 180 degrees and it's not that they've rejected what you've done or didn't like it, they just want to see something different. That's what's that's what excites me is just trying to jump through a different hoop in a way. Do you do you remember the first time as you were coming up and you know after you kind of got your sea legs about you and acting your first gigs do you remember the first time when you took a real big swing and you're like oh god

this is something I never imagined I could do and I'm it scares the [ __ ] out of me.

I think a little bit on every every job but I to one degree or another. Um really that's a really good question Sean. Um,

you do take great swings and you you you never clank it. You always hit the ball hard. You have really admirable like you always feel like you're in great hands as an audience member when when when you're watching you.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, truly. That's a huge compliment coming from you guys. Thank you.

No, it's it's and whether it's drama or comedy, it's pretty impressive. Thank you. Um, well, I I I guess the the bottom line is there's no sort of secret source to it. I feel yeah I I feel excited when I'm taking a big swing. Um, when did I first feel that sense of, "Oh, I'm not sure I can do this." Oh, well, I know. Is that Well, that that Sorry.

No, go. Well, it Well, it was I was just going to say it was one of those reactions where I I've got I've got the job and then I thought, "Oh my god, how am I going to do that?"

And that was that was playing Steven Hawking in a television drama about his his life,

which sort of compared to Eddie's took it up to, you know, he was walking with a stick and that the speech was very impaired. Um, still married to Jane Hawking. So it was a very it was one slice of his life, his extraordinary life and um yeah the thrill the elation of that and then going oh my god I've just convinced people that I can do this I don't think I can you know I was I was immediately terrified after the 10 seconds of elation

right um so I guess that was the first moment I thought well this is kind of a big swing

but was there what was that first what was that first that first moment where you so I I I totally get that and relate to that but then the

the moment I think you I think Sean's question was more about You were talking about choices. I mean, within the

He was He was talking about He was talking about choices, but but when do you feel comfortable? When was that first time you felt Forget Sean's question. He's

When was that first time that you felt that you felt comfortable in a performance where you because you know there's that thing when you're a young actor and you go in and you're just

sometimes you're like I don't want to [ __ ] up or you're just kind of you're nervous and blah blah

and then but what's that first moment you felt like rather than going oh hell. Yeah. You hit a groove. You felt tight. You got it. You You know, do you remember that job?

No, I think that was what Sean was saying. I I [sighs] Oh, I'm back in. You are back in. I No, I do think that's what you meant. I I think I don't know. It's so hard. It's so hard to be specific about this sort of thing. Um,

[ __ ] I don't know. I've I'm always saying to acting students that I I feel you can have you can have you can have something very theatrical in a close-up as much as you can have something very myopically focused and close up on the stage. I think the magnification magnification of a performance is really to do if something is too big it means often it's wrong. It doesn't mean that the scale of it is is is what am I trying to say? I don't know. I some big choices I made where I thought I I'm I'm just doing this and I think it's right. I mean, Patrick Melrose would probably be one because I I've partied, but that guy was other level. And I think the choices I made with him, uh, were pretty committed. And I, you know, because I was in a very sober state doing this crazy different levels of uh inebriated um uh uh dance work, um I I kind of just I just really committed to it and and and it's those things where you go, I

this could, you know, I didn't I don't even remember thinking this could be silly.

I actually remember thinking, well, that's quite fun. Um yeah, maybe [clears throat] I should try quaudes. And no, I'm joking. I I just had a I had a a commitment to it that meant it felt like I was on the ride, but also thinking,

I hope this actually works. I I think we have that a lot, don't we, when we're having a good time doing something as well, going, okay, this this feels great and everyone here is enjoying it and we're all it's but is is anyone going to watch it or think the same or

Yeah. people people that aren't obligated to say, "Hey, great job." Yeah. You're fully reliant on uh on a biased audience. Uh, and it's it's a little bit scary.

And I think I think to your point about directors, you can come out of an experience and go, "Oh [ __ ] I really do need to trust my voice and my instincts a little bit more sometimes because I think I could have got that better." I I have had moments watching things soon after their completion and gone, "Ah, yeah, I should have dug my heels about that. I not the best take or the best choice of Yeah, but you you were you were not foolish to count on the taste of people like Sam Mendy's or Thomas Alfredson, but um some like I said some amazing directes. So

yeah. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. Speaking of Tinker Taylor, Soldier Spy, what about the fear of of acting with those incredible actors around you? Like was was was that nerve-wracking? I mean, you were obviously very very well established by the time you did that film, but still you can't shake the little guy who was at Lambda, you know, like you're sitting there with with these titans. Was that uh was that frightening?

Yeah. I mean, uh yeah, the the first time I met um I mean, Mark, I'd done a little thing with Mark Strong, so I knew him. Colin was just absurdly wonderful and lovely and nice and goofy and impressionable as well as being ridiculously smart and talented

uh and devilishly handsome and all the rest he is. And then Gary, when I first met Gary, he walked around the corner of it was either working titles office or it was somewhere uninspiring. And I it wasn't where I was expecting to meet him. And I'd gone in for a costume fitting and there he was. And he just got me looked me and he just we stopped in the corridor. He looked at me. He looked me up and down and went, "Oh, hello." I went, "Oh, hello. Hi. I and just was just sort of just a mess in front of him.

Yeah. He was very very cool. He was very cool. Yeah. Uh and I thought, "Oh, [ __ ] hell." I I And I felt this horrible uh ill comfort of like, "I've got to I've got to please this guy. I've got to somehow impress him and and make sure he thinks he's got, you know, it literally felt like he was sizing me up going, is this really the guy I want to spend my time with? Is Peter Gillum? I'm not sure really." You know, there was that very kind of like I it took a little while and then and then I I I realized he he was the get it. He was the one who was terrified. He was terrified

really. I don't I mean I I think I can say this. Um maybe his lawyers will write to me afterwards. I don't know. But you know, he was frightened. He didn't he really thought he wasn't capable of doing it. He couldn't push this

iconic Alec Guinness performance away. He was worried that he hadn't found him. And you know I it it became the most amazing friendship out of that. But you know yeah it that that man was frightened and that that that to have that vulnerability as an actor and to see that in someone as capable and extraordinary as him. I was like hooray okay we're all the same really. We're all the [ __ ] same.

Yeah. But I mean like I like like people feel that way about you. I think you know your body of work is it's unmatched. Like I mean Star Trek, Imitation Game, I can name them because I've seen them and I love them. And and Doctor Strange and Austo Sage County and the [ __ ] Smog and I mean your [ __ ] Smog and The Hobbit. I mean, that's crazy to me to me, you know, and on and on. And recently, you know, the roses, I I thought it was just like that that was that was a total minefield. You could have blown yourself up, you and Olivia, at any moment in that. It was truly impressive. Um,

so people feel that way about about you too, I think, where Oh, for sure. Where you just want to just, you know, if if if you get a job with Benedict,

people will know that I'm [ __ ] it. Know that I don't know what I'm doing on a first day. Know that I doubt myself that, you know, it's that thing, isn't it? And I I don't know if you guys have it, but that first day on set where you you go um uh you know, here's the crew. They're all watching uh their actors and director you think, "Oh, maybe they'll give me a second day." But these guys are just they're going that it's Roman right away. And of course it isn't because the focus pull is [ __ ] it. The [ __ ] clapper, you know, everyone is doing their job for the first time as a unit putting stuff on film. So get over your own your own um

We all have to figure out how to wash ourselves, right, Sean? We're all We're all

But I do I do want to just having done a show there in London better. Do you do the same for the back?

Show me how you do. Show me how you do how you wash your own smaller back. Let me just see that.

Do you need an extender for the lofah? Cuz we've got one, Scotty. Oh, wow. It's a selfie stick.

How old are you? You're so You're so nimble. Flex. Uh, no. But for in theater in theater in London, they have this thing called in and the barbecue they have this called Cherish Notes. And I've never heard of this until I went over there. And I'm like, and I had to ask people in the cast, I'm like, "What's Cherish?" Cherish notes. Well, we meet every single day. Every day before the show on stage, just check in with each other. I'm like, "Can't we do that just backstage in the hall during the dressing rooms are?" Yeah. Or just in the That's what I said. Can we just do an email or like a a fax or something? And um No, you have to go on stage. And every day we would go on stage and the stage manager would be like great I don't have anything. Does anybody have anything to like No. Why are we standing here?

I like that. It's I like that it keeps everybody accountable and reminds you of where you are and

I know but okay. What do you think about that Benedict? I think it's quite lovely. I think it's quite nice. I think it's quite nice as long as you know as long as you're not spending too much time doing that and

as long as there's a [clears throat] moderator. I think what the dangerous thing is, especially in in theater long run, like there's going to be those moments where something's going a bit strange in a scene or someone's, you know, and then the the lines of communication can get very very fuzzy unless you go through the appropriate channels, which is obviously, you know, the assistant director or the director and say, I'm having a bit of a problem with the scene. I'm not sure what's going whatever it is. If you go in there in the cherish scenario and go to another actor, you know that bit where you're doing that bit, that means I can't do my bit the way I want to do.

That that to me is like, oh, here we go. But that's not what cherishing is. Cherishing sounds much nicer than that. But I guess if it becomes cherishing is just a positive feedback loop, isn't it? That's what that is. And just

looking after each other, but it was nice to see everybody. But if somebody brings up something is there try to save it now. I mean, everybody in your cast is already they feel like [ __ ] this guy just barely put up with it.

No, I loved everybody there. Is there enough time to iron out whatever problem somebody might bring?

Well, that's what that's what it was. That's what it was. It was it was I wasn't used to it here like like in in in the States where you you kind of um it kind of interrupts your what you've created for yourself, your rhythm and your routine in the States. And so now I was like, "Oh, I have to stop that. go up five flights of stairs or down five flights of stairs and I know it's terrible how

these monsters. This gets worse. Five flights of stairs. I mean, and you can barely We know that you can't swim because you can barely can't catch your breath.

And then at the top of the stairs, you had to say something nice about I went down the stairs like this.

It's just a tub of water. And just get in it. Let me watch you. Dip in. Just dip in.

Is it still hot? Just dip in it. Let me see. What do I want to Well, I want to talk about Well, Shnie, do you want to get it into Sean? Would you want to talk more about Doctor Strange or Star Trek? Because I'd love to get in 1917 when you're done.

Yeah. No, I mean, look, are you big into fantasy, Sean? Is that your fantasy? Oh, yeah. I'm a huge sci-fi nerd and and fantasy like

Is he into he into fantasy? You should you should see what he's wearing up for for bottoms right now.

Lizard suit from the waist down. Yeah. Yeah. So Sean Sean loves I love Star Trek and um the movies.

Marvel. You love Marvel. Yeah. I'm I'm I like Marvel. Scotty loves Marvel. I like Marvel a lot. But I love um

I love the Star Trek movies. I wasn't a huge fan of this of the television series. Like Scott Sky Scotty's massive Star Trek fan. But um but seeing you on screen as that character, that iconic character,

and I don't know, you have this thing about you where you you don't you're so [ __ ] commanding.

Yeah. You're magnetic. Like you don't have to do a lot and you're just you you're electric right through the [ __ ]

Do you want Do you want Sean Sean? Do you want Scotty to come ask a qu? By the way, if Scotty comes on camera and he's covered in French's mustard,

let me see if he's got a question with Spock ears. Mustard Spocks, but also a massive massive uh Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan. Like huge I've seen him a million times those movies. And to see right when you popped on today as a guest, I'm like, "Oh my god, that's so it's such an another iconic character that smog the dragon that your voice is synonymous with this legendary thing."

And Sean, I will say this, Benedict, before you you I've asked people who have done these kinds of things before. You've done a bunch of these different films with, you know, sort of franchises, if you will, but they came out of very wellestab, you know, uh um sort of ideas that have a very wellestablished uh fan base. And there's a sense of do you ever feel a sense of responsibility to those legions of fans who existed before you kind of stepped into these roles?

Yeah, huge. Um, very big. And then you have to forget about them. You have to you have to make a commitment to something that can't please everyone. So that's immediately if you play the aggregate game, you're dead in the water to anything original or alive or daring or that asks questions or is worth actually seeing the 78th or whatever I was version of Sherlock Holmes. you know, you have to just go,

yeah, no, it's going to be all right. And that that it's it's not arrogance. Um, it's it's just you can't have that much head traffic. You you just have to focus on doing the job.

And so, yeah, it it's a take on on something. Yeah, I forgot I forgot about Sherlock, too, which is like

fantastic. I loved Sherlock. You were so great in Sherlock. I mean, the list goes on and on. This guy, I mean, are you even 35 yet? and and the resume is stunning. You know, it's Anyway, with with we've we're already over time. I've got one last question, though, because it's something to bring you back down to earth because you're so goddamn good at at what you do. What is the what what is the one thing you'd love to be half as good at as you are as an actor? Is is there something that surfing?

Surfing. Surfing. Oh, wow. Really? Or speaking any foreign language? So, you try but you're not great.

Uh, exactly that. I'm I'm I started in my 40s and I'm near the end of my 40s and I'm still feeling like I'm starting but it and I had a shot operation last year so I haven't done it at all for about actually no this year uh for about 6 months but

I love it. I love it. It's Where did you start it? Um, weirdly enough, in New Zealand when we were doing Power of the Dog, we got shut down because of lockdown and we had the decision to make to stay, which by then because I had two oxygenarian parents, one of whom is a severe asthmatic staying with us as it would happen,

my mom and dad and uh uh our three very young children at that point, Sophie and a nanny. And we just thought, okay, we're going to stay. And it was a bit scary to begin with, but utterly magical and extraordinary, one of the best places on earth to be, as it as it turned out. Um, and there was a little lefthand break in Tijanga in Hogs Bay. Big shout out to Tier Wangans. Um, anyway, the point is it was where I learned.

Yeah. And uh I'm goofy actually. So left brakes is not not as good as a as a right. [clears throat] But um I quite like

No, that's wrong. It must have been a right break. Yeah, cuz I'm right foot forward. So you're not you're supposed to be facing the wave rather than facing the shore. But so I learned really on the wrong wave, but loved it. every now and again you get a left and I I just I really fell in love with it. I fell in love with the view of the coastline.

Um I fell in love with that connection to the ocean that sense of how present you are and the community as well. This extraordinary group of people where all is kind of forgiven as long as you don't take their wave and you know the drug dealer would be there and the head of the local police force would be there. Yeah, it was just all of human

and I I can't I can't explain to anyone who hasn't surfed what that feeling is of nature giving you a ride from somewhere out in the ocean towards the shoreline. It's just magic when it works.

And when you get out of the ocean, how do you clean yourself? I'm kidding. What What happened What happened to your shoulder? By the way, you had shoulder surgery.

I I was so boring. So So 49. Um I'm yeah 50 this year but it was 49 when it happened. I bet well it's a long time of ill use and done a lot of surfing in very bad conditions and overdoing it. I'm probably lifting stuff in the wrong way over the years. Not not the particular but I basically had a torn rotator cuff and then also a frozen shoulder on top of it which is do the repair to the rotator which was a complete tear. M

um and I'd lived with chronic pain for about a year and a half, not really realizing that you didn't have to. And I kept on doing physio and being told, "No, it'll heal. You just give it time." I'm a patient guy and I'm doing everything you're telling me to do and I'm still having sleepless nights getting up like three, four times in the night cuz I'd rolled over onto it and it's suddenly just

But it's better now. Um it's Yeah, it's great. It's great. Great. I love that. Oh, look at that. Look at that.

All right. Well, before we let you go, we we need to know about um about The Thing with Feathers because this So, this this is this new project, you guys.

Jesus, if I hadn't said anything about that film, I'm so sorry. No, it's my my not How to Clean Yourself. It's very much not The thing with that is I mean, I suppose you could use that to clean yourself.

It's a prequel to How do you clean yourself? Yeah. So, this this I It's called the Duster. the uh I've I've only uh seen the trailer which is is looks magical to say the least. The thing with feathers. Um it's it's I'm not going to ask you to describe it because I I think that's that's always frustrating. But it it seems like there's it there's you're dealing with loss, but you're dealing with it in a very uh magical, fantastical way. Uh, and it looks like the film making is exquisite and your performance looks mind-blowing again. Is it was it something that that that you love doing?

Very much. And it's something that I'm very proud of. We I produced it as well. So

Oh, wow. It's one of those projects that wouldn't really have got off the ground. Well, it would have probably got off the ground, but you know, it took a lot of effort and it was 10 years in the making. Oh wow.

Um we only came on board in the last sort of year and a bit of it. We being the production company Sunny March, Adam, Leah Clark, and myself. And um it was an approach for me to act as as this dad, this man who because you were so kind in telling me it could be a real bore to describe it. I'm going to describe it very very briefly, but it's a it's a man who suffers a very sudden bereavement and of his he loses his wife and has to bring up his two children as a widow. And it's about their first year as a family and it's based on an amazing amazing novella called um grief is the thing with feathers.

Oh wow. Which is a misquote of the Emily famous Emily Dickinson line love is the thing with feathers by Max Porter who is just a a titan of a heroic human being um in actual physical stature and in talent. He's he's a a wonderfully kind, brilliant mind and uh he's created a space where male grief is examined in the most unimaginably crazy and imaginative way. Um it's about dealing with it as an acceptance as something you live with and it comes alive. if it comes alive in the form of the dad's work, which from the book, maybe the film, but certainly the book more or less is hinted at as being a memory of the boys of what that time was like. And you kind of learn that as as the story unfolds. Um, but it's a crow.

It's a crow that comes fully to life as this horrific entity that's both Mary Poppins to the children, an amenuencis, a hero, an absolute nightmare, a ferocious noise in the head, a tormentor, and an ally against despair. And um it's it's it's a huge homage to the literature. It was born out of the poetry of Ted Hughes. Um in our version, he was an academic at the book. in our version. He's a he's an illustrator and his illustration comes to life basically and lives torments and is accepted by this family grieving the loss of their mother and wife.

Wow. Wow. Wow. I can't can't wait to check. That's a punchy hour and 40 minutes. Um and it's Yeah. I I don't know. I just

what what I was taken with with the trailer is you know you all can can see there's it seems to be done in such a sophisticated cinematic tasteful way like you know that you that can go wrong real quick if you go oh so there's going to be a crow that he's got to talk to that's like how does that look and how is it framed what's the you know it's just looks so tasteful and and and and uh and special. So, uh, congratulations.

Well, thank you. I mean, that's that's mainly down to Dylan Southern who adapted the book and directed it. He's a pop documentarian by trade, as in that's what he's done up until this point. This is his first fictional narrative drama. And uh,

good for you for getting behind him. Well, yeah. I mean, that's one of the things we do at Sun Watch. We want to promote and platform voices that are coming out of the stocks who are the first and um, very often femaleled talent, but also um, in this case, someone who hasn't originated their work in this medium. and he's he's spectacular. He's a real senas. He's a real cultural nerd. So, the references are thick and fast. There's Kubri, there's Spielberg, there's Hitchcock. Um there's all sorts. There's a bit of Jane Campion in there, weirdly. But, um it is just it's it's it's a rich tapestry of imagination and minds coming undone reflected through a cinematic idea of how that would happen in the culture of these people. So, it's it's the father's imagination and and that north London 40some uh maleness which I know very well. Um they're set in South London but big deal, not much difference. And it's just

it's it's it was it was a crazy ride to go on. Very short um shoot after 10 years of uh of uh of creating it and getting it made. So, I'm really proud. Benedict, before we let you go, uh, I have to ask you about something that I think that you have been attached to

to either be in or to produce or to do something with for a long time. And it's one of my favorite books of all time. Uh, it's an absolute mind-blower for those who haven't written, which is, you know what I'm about to say,

Rogue Mail. Rogue Mail. Oh, dude, it's a winner, isn't it? It It's so cool. It is such a game changer of a novel. Rogue Male written in 1939.

Yeah. It's I mean it's the original fugitive novel. It's the original and you know the huge inspiration for Ian Fleming for Bond and Yeah. And it's um

and it's so precient to what's going on in our times. Not to allude to that too much.

So pre Exactly. It it really is. you know, when we first sat down to trying to talk about this, is this a bit of a game? It's not about AI, no, but it is is this a bit of a kind of guy's film and then the longer we were exploring the themes of it and the motivation behind the guy's actions and the outcome and how he's turned on by his own side as well as obviously the side um he's tried to take down. It is uh it's fascinating how it plays into a political spectrum of what's going on in the world. Now, I don't want to say too much about it because people should read the book and yet we will make it. You will make it, huh? Definitely.

Yeah. Yeah. We don't we haven't got a filming date yet, but it's it's something we're trying to slate for next year. Although,

there are other huge commitments involving cloaks floating about. So, yeah. I'll be the first guy to watch it. I'll be the first one there.

I can't wait. Oh, me too. Yeah, I know. I need to get going on that. [snorts and laughter]

That's good. Um, well, we uh we owe you uh 12 minutes now back into your life. Uh just

I think I owe you a lot more cuz I was very late on so you owe me nothing. very um such a pleasure. Honored to have a joy, Benedict. Thank you, guys.

Really cool to meet to meet you all too. Thank you. I hope to bump into you again soon one day.

Continued success. You too. You too. Will sorry I've got to say Will before we sign off. You were phenomenal in this is this thing on.

I I asked Bradley cuz this to give me a link cuz search like wouldn't Oh, it's not really ready for a link yet. And I went [ __ ] Bradley. It's a I missed a screening at London. It's I can see it. You are so good. It's so tender and real and that camera is so I wanted to ask you about how you deal with it. It's so close to you all the time when you're up at that mic. Like was he shooting on a long lens at any point or was it really on stage with you getting in your ey line? I mean it was and yet you're utterly in it all the time and it's so moving.

It was all it was all in a 40. The whole thing was shot everything was shot under 40 the entire film

on one on one single lens and he was Yeah. Bradley was right there, you know, right up next to me. It was very intense. But thank you very much. Impressive say

it's brilliant work. It's brilliant work. Um anyway, I just wanted to throw that in. It's really good.

Um All right. Well, you enjoy the rest of your night. Um and [clears throat] thank you again for doing this.

All right. Bye. Benedict Cumberbatch. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Will. Thank you Sean.

See you. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye. There he goes. Benedict Cumberbatch. We didn't I didn't get to so much that went by. How could you? He's got a million credits. I know, right?

Yeah. That was really cool. I mean, are you guys a Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan? No,

I'm I I I I've not seen those. I enjoyed it. Yeah, I love those movies. So, he played he was a voice motion capture questions I have here, but I didn't get to them.

Yeah, but um you could tell he was just a voice of a dragon, I hear from the question,

that is that is correct. Um he he uh but also you can tell just from talking to him he's this sounds really corny to say but you could tell he's such a massive team player. You can say you can tell he's not you know he's a very giving person. He's a very loving boundary.

You can smell his team spirit. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Smells like teen teen spirit. Oh, I see.

Yeah. Um, no, he's uh I it's pretty it's pretty cool how he's uh uh dances between the comedy, the drama, the big the big Marvel stuff, and also like things like uh like this thing coming out.

I know like intense like like little sort of really cool niche films and then these massive box office hits.

Are you with them? Also, are you with them? Well, you can they're now in you can just jump in with them. the listener. Will's building on uh the clean yourself.

Jump in there with them and then you guys together. Yeah, you could clean each other more easily. Reach the back.

Just do that. Start there and get a button or a zipper. I asked before. Oh my god.

Um but uh Hey Will, was I with you on a plane when we ran into Benedict Cumberbatch?

Oh, really? Was I with you on a plane or was I was with somebody else? Anyway, I ran into him on a plane once. Um, and he was so [ __ ] funny.

I didn't run into him on a plane, I don't think, but I ran into him once. Uh, I didn't run into I didn't say hi to him. I He was at the Greenwich and he was trying to repack a suitcase in the lobby.

Oh, no. And I and I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to leave him alone.

You know, [snorts] that's I hate looking inside somebody's suitcase. You ever notice that when it opens up a I I feel like there's stuff in there I don't need to see, don't want to see. Especially not not the suitcase on the way to the destination. It's the one coming back where all the dirty underwear is up on top and nothing's folded and it's all just like you just know if you got your face. You're so crazy about just regular life. You're so insane. By the way, my my biggest luxury, the thing,

the one big luxury that I love that I really love treating myself to is doing hotel laundry.

Hotel? Oh, you just throw it, you give it, you put it in the bag and let them pay.

And people are like, "I'm not going to do hotel laundry. It's going to be $4 for my socks." I'm like, "Yeah, you know what? I'm going to treat myself."

So, you do that laundry before you leave the hotel so that when you get home and you unpack, it's already done.

Yeah. Depending. I mean, the last few there might be a few items, but but I'm not going to like just deprive myself. You know what I mean?

So, you you don't go home with all your dirty laundry like the rest of us plebs. Uh, and and throw it in the

I often do the the bulk of my stuff will be clean. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. I'm not jackassing a bunch of dirty clothes across.

Why would you? Yeah. When you got all that money to burn, right? You know, like an extra 12 bucks.

Oh, is it for a t-shirt? Nice. But listen, all those um Here he comes. Oh, did I did I meet Did I meet Benedict Cumberbatch on an airplane like a jet plane or was it a plane?

It wasn't going to be a biplane, but we'll allow it by Smartless. Smart L. Smartless is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbco, and Michael Grant Terry. Smart less.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Benedict Cumberbatch | SmartLess"?

Sean Hayes (Host), Jason Bateman (Host), Will Arnett (Host), Benedict Cumberbatch (Guest), Scotty (Guest), Tracy (Guest), Rob Amjarv (Guest), Bennett Barbakow (Guest).

What is "Benedict Cumberbatch | SmartLess" about?

Benedict Cumberbatch joins the hosts for a light-hearted and humorous conversation, discussing his experiences and recent activities while delving into topics such as living between homes and the challenges of maintaining personal belongings in different locations. The episode features playful banter among the hosts, setting a relaxed tone for the discussion.

What is mentioned in this SmartLess episode?

55 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Darjeeling, Star Trek, The Thing with Feathers, Sophie Hunter, The Power of the Dog, French's. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Benedict Cumberbatch | SmartLess"?

The episode runs 1 h 12 min; the transcript is about 15,306 words in 332 timestamped sections.

More from SmartLess

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 19, 2025.