Transcript

Marc Maron | SmartLess

From SmartLess · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 8 min · 14,955 words · 287 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Marc Maron | SmartLess", an episode of SmartLess published August 4, 2025 (1 h 8 min, about 14,955 words). It mentions 62 people, works and ideas, including Air America, London, Secret Service, East Hampton, Panicked.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: East Hampton, London, Martha's Vineyard, Sag Harbor
  2. – 20:00: Audible, Brooklyn, Dak Shepard, GoFundMe
  3. – 30:00: Secret Service, Highland Park, White House, Air America
  4. – 40:00: Air America, Apple TV+, Montel Williams, Vulture
  5. – 50:00: Air America, Mark Maron, Michael Terry, Owen Wilson
  6. – 1:00:00: Alan Ruck, Amazon, Good Night Oar, In Memoriam
  7. – 1:07:52: Michael Grant Terry, Panicked

Notable quotes from "Marc Maron | SmartLess"

  • But first of all, Jason, you are Well, I can't wait for you to come visit, but you are so lucky, Jason. Today in London and tomorrow, it's like the hottest, not no exaggeration, like 100°, right? And then the day I get.
    about London · at
  • Things from that's look I don't want to get into but it's kind of the problem with America a little bit. Listen, East Hampton, tell us about what [ __ ] I go to Sag Harbor. I was there this morning. can I Were you really?
    about East Hampton · at
  • No, that was Martha's Vineyard, though.
    about Martha's Vineyard · at
  • Yeah, they sent me one. They were panicked, I guess. They were No, no, no. Mark doesn't seem to know what he's doing.
    about Panicked · at
  • With this silly thing, whatever we're [ __ ] doing is that but is it's like it's like morning zoo or whatever like whack. Even when we get into the questions and the stuff like…
    about Morning zoo · at
  • And then you did the live shows too of which I did one of them actually in Brooklyn at the bell. Yeah.
    about Brooklyn · at
  • Political show. I can do that, but we had both of us had come out of Air America. And from the beginning of the podcast, we were we're not doing a political show because I…
    about Air America · at
  • And reading his book and in the meantime Brendan who is in Brooklyn generally flew out to meet the Secret Service to create a perimeter. And so you get all these Secret Service…
    about Secret Service · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Dak Shepard — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. Not Dax Shepard. Although we appreciate You mean Dax Shepherd? Marin.
  • Brendan McDonald — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And I remember when my producer Brendan McDonald was Obama wants to come on. And I'm so what? I'm going to I'm going to the White House. And he said, No, he's coming to Highland Park. I'm like,.
  • Chris Hayes — Person · 1 mention · first at
    We just did we did Chris Hayes and we did Terry Gross and that was it. And I don't hear from Obama at all. He's got my number, but feel weird texting him. But look,.
  • Terry Gross — Person · 1 mention · first at
    We just did we did Chris Hayes and we did Terry Gross and that was it. And I don't hear from Obama at all. He's got my number, but feel weird texting him. But look, the fact that you a were able to book.
  • Montel Williams — Person · 1 mention · first at
    But this was like this was when they had like Montel Williams and it was a and who's that other guy?
  • Owen Wilson — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Know, what anyone considers relevance or irrelevance or I was talking to Owen Wilson the other day about it because I'm on that show with him and we were talking about, stopping the podcast and he quoted some Salinger quote that was you.
  • Michael Terry — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we feel the same way about Rob and Bennett and the guys who Michael Terry who work with us.
  • Mark Maron — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Well, I hope so because you know Mark Maron is going to be 62 years old in September and you know I just did it's weird and I know you guys have got a you guys seem to have a probably a.
  • Judy Greer — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Anywhere. But there's this thing where Wait, is that the one with Judy Greer?
  • Lily Gladstone — Person · 1 mention · first at
    She's in it. And but Lily Gladstone's in it. Sharon Stone, Alan Ruck, Michael McKeen.
  • Alan Ruck — Person · 1 mention · first at
    She's in it. And but Lily Gladstone's in it. Sharon Stone, Alan Ruck, Michael McKeen.
  • Sharon Stone — Person · 1 mention · first at
    She's in it. And but Lily Gladstone's in it. Sharon Stone, Alan Ruck, Michael McKeen.
  • Michael Grant Terry — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Glass smart list is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry Rob Armjarf and Bennett Barbco.
  • J. D. Salinger — Person · 1 mention
  • Janeane Garofalo — Person · 1 mention
  • Jimmy Pardo — Person · 1 mention
  • Justin Kurzel — Person · 1 mention
  • Michael McKean — Person · 1 mention
  • Ricky Gervais — Person · 1 mention
  • Sam Lipsyte — Person · 1 mention
  • Sam Seder — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Panicked — Book · 2 mentions · first at
  • The Order — Book · 1 mention · first at
    With Owen and I'd love that film you were in that Justin Criselle directed, The Order was just incredible.

Companies & orgs

  • Air America — Company · 6 mentions · first at
  • Secret Service — Company · 4 mentions · first at
  • Audible — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Kind of old terrestrial radio middlemen to get like sex toy ads and audible. Yeah. Our first ads were like Adam and Eve. you get a free package of god knows what.
  • Just Coffee — Company · 1 mention · first at
    And we had this other advertiser from an older show we did just coffee, but there was no way to generate income. And unless you wanted to sort of do a, kind of pay to listen kind of thing, but then you wouldn't build an.
  • Vulture — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Kind of anemic, they people were locking in because I was doing their job for them. So, Vulture was there.
  • Acast — Company · 1 mention
  • Accidental College — Company · 1 mention
  • Adam & Eve — Company · 1 mention
  • Apple Inc. — Company · 1 mention
  • HBO — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • GoFundMe — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Goofund or yeah, not GoFundMe, the other one where you have a site where people can pay whatever. everyone has them.
  • Apple TV+ — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Same with Apple TV, it's like that's just about getting people to get Apple TV ultimate.
  • In Memoriam — Product · 1 mention · first at
  • Good Night Oar — Product · 1 mention · first at
    About to do his show in the West End. Good Night Oar at the Tabasco or the at the barbecue.
  • CPAP — Product · 1 mention
  • iPod — Product · 1 mention
  • Max — Product · 1 mention
  • OnlyFans — Product · 1 mention
  • SmartLess — Product · 1 mention
  • WTF with Marc Maron — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Morning zoo — Concept · 1 mention · first at
  • Terrestrial radio — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    There, advertisers weren't forthcoming. we were using kind of old terrestrial radio middlemen to get like sex toy ads and audible. Yeah. Our first ads were like Adam and Eve. you get a free package of god knows what.
  • Codependency — Concept · 1 mention
  • Improvisation — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • London — Place · 4 mentions · first at
  • East Hampton — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • Brooklyn — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • White House — Place · 2 mentions · first at
    Wants to come on. And I'm so what? I'm going to I'm going to the White House. And he said, No, he's coming to Highland Park. I'm That's [ __ ] crazy.
  • Highland Park — Place · 2 mentions · first at
    What? I'm going to I'm going to the White House. And he said, No, he's coming to Highland Park. I'm That's [ __ ] crazy.
  • Sag Harbor — Place · 1 mention · first at
    With America a little bit. Listen, East Hampton, tell us about what [ __ ] I go to Sag Harbor. I was there this morning. can I Were you really?
  • Martha's Vineyard — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Oval Office — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Per se as much as it was profile. And I think that really it came down to then that there was a fan in the Oval Office.
  • Beverly Hills — Place · 1 mention · first at
    And we'll give you a heads up when he's 20 minutes out. So what he was doing, he was flying from Beverly Hills in the Air Force 2 or whatever the helicopter to the Rose Bowl to park there, which is about 10 minutes from my house.
  • Rose Bowl — Place · 1 mention · first at
    In the Air Force 2 or whatever the helicopter to the Rose Bowl to park there, which is about 10 minutes from my house.
  • West End — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, the Gerswin thing. And Sean and Sean's about he's in London. He's about to do his show in the West End. Good Night Oar at the Tabasco or the at the barbecue.
  • Tabasco — Place · 1 mention · first at
    End. Good Night Oar at the Tabasco or the at the barbecue.

Sponsors

  • Amazon — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    I'm going to order a piano on Amazon right now. I literally went to get a new wrench at the hardware store and then rode back and couldn't figure out how to use it.
  • HBO — Sponsor · 1 mention
  • Max — Sponsor · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

I got a good dad joke for the day. You're going to start us with a dad joke today instead of ending the day for the cold open.

This is the This is the beginning. Okay. This is try format switch here, listener.

Let's hear it. Uh, how much room is needed to for fungi to grow? Uh, boy, you tell me.

As much room as possible. Oh, welcome. Welcome my smart les. Hey Sean, you have any opening bits?

I do. I do have something to share. What happened today? Consult your sheet. I have no sheets.

Really? Um I have no sheet. You give no sheet. I give no sheet. I don't give no sheet.

But first of all, Jason, you are Well, I I can't wait for you to come visit, but you are so lucky, Jason. Today in London and tomorrow, it's like

the hottest, not no exaggeration, like 100°, right? And then the day I get And then they get there, it's 72.

I literally just looked at that on the on the way to this. You're so lucky. It's

now. How many days are you How many days are you guys are you spending over there with Sean in in London?

Sean, just three. Just three. Just three. I love that Jason doesn't even know. I don't I go where I'm [ __ ] told. In fact, I'm waiting for my wife to uh

help give me uh notes on packing. Yeah. You know, does she make you a list of what you should pack? Well, she tries, but her big her big move always is to just kind of

walk up behind me while I'm starting to pack and and say pleasantly, "Hey, would you like some help?" And I say, "No, no, I'm set. Thank you. I got it." And then she'll just stand there and she'll watch me.

Say, "I don't need any help." "No, no, I know. I'm just checking." And then she'll just start to like lob quote suggestions. And so she ends up packing and controlling what

what is she worried about, do you think? Is she worried that you're not going to be have the right thing for the right sit?

I don't think she's ever worried about anything. I think she I think just her happy place is having just kind of like a a hand on on on all things.

Sorry. Hand on things. Sorry. Yeah. You both know this better than I do. She talks to both of you more than she talks to me.

That's true. That's true. That's true. I actually know more about your trip than than you do. I

Yes. So, tell me when am I leaving? I don't know. I I know you're uh you're leaving tomorrow.

Tomorrow night. Yeah, tomorrow night. Tomorrow night. How do you feel about it, Jason? Do you get excited about traveling or you like

I can't stand it. I don't understand the concept of leaving the nest that you have

deliberately created with all your favorite things to the extent you can get them right around you and in the right spot.

I'm super excited to see you, too. Yeah. I just don't no I mean but like the concept of leaving a place that you're comfortable to go to a place that's completely foreign to you. I get the whole cultural reach and

because other things but I mean there's there's tons of stuff to do here. No, there's tons of stuff to do in London but not in the feed this is what makes you this is kind of should feed your brain and feed your soul and go to different places and see different things from that's look I don't want to get into but it's kind of the problem with America a little bit. Listen, East Hampton, tell us about what [ __ ]

I go to Sag Harbor. I was there this morning. Um, can I Were you really? I Yeah, I rode my bike to the hardware store. I I fix

Wait, you rode your bike from East Hampton to Sag Harbor? No, I did not. I didn't do that. It was too hot. Stretch.

That sounds um I I I felt very chory today. Like I rode my bike into town. I talked to some police officers, said hi to them. Um they were dealing with an issue. Apparently, there was a dog issue. I'm kidding.

Was a dog stuck in a tree? No. Like somebody complaining that somebody else had left their dog outside, but it was in a sunny area and was mad and called the East Hampton police.

There's not proper shade for this animal. Yeah. And these cops were so diplomatic about it cuz they're just like, "What are we dealing?" You know what I mean? So, they were nice about it.

What would that be like getting getting No, no, no, no shade, pun intended, uh being thrown on uh Hampton cops. But

yeah, when you decide you want to be a police officer, what is that? Do you say I want to be a police officer in the Hamptons because you love the town or because you just don't want you don't want the heat. You don't want the nonsense. You don't want a lot of crime?

I think a lot of them grow a lot of the officers I've talked to are local, like grew up here. And I got to say, I honestly to a person, every one of them that I've ever talked to and met has been super super nice and

Well, that's not shocking. Yeah. Yeah. No, they've been really really nice and they

Yeah. And and that's kind of the consensus. They're super responsive and imagine the personalities they have to deal with out here. Just imagine.

And they're trying to they're trying to nab those little girls running lemonade stands that are skimming, right? They got to watch out for them.

Um like what what's their beat? Skimming. And their beat is they do everything. You know, they deal with a lot of unfortunately there there are a lot of issues that happen here. People come on vacation here. So a lot of people feel like no rules. A lot of people drink and drive, which is a terrible thing. It's my worst, honestly. Can I if not to get too dark, but my the thing I I like the sound I like the least is the sound of obviously an ambulance at night and you'll hear it late at night cuz especially if it was somewhere way down the, you know, way at the end of the island and that you know that there's been some terrible accident, you read about it in the local paper the next day. It's just absolutely heartbreaking.

It's terrible. Absolutely heartbreaking. It breaks my heart. So, it's such a small town. Everybody knows everything.

Yeah. And and but also just like, you know, because people feel like, "Oh, well, um I'm just going to have four glasses of wine and get behind the wheel of my [ __ ] rolls or whatever,

you know." And it's sad. It's really, really sad. But also, has there been festivities for the uh the Big Jaws anniversary out there? Isn't that where where they were where they supposedly shot the film?

No, that was Martha's Vineyard, though. Well, that's close, though. Oh, right. Right. Right. But I did see I did see see uh a couple days ago a whale breach about a hundred yards off uh the beach. It was unbelievable.

Wait, does that mean jump up and slam down a belly flop? Yeah, like a mass like just

Are you sure that wasn't fill in the blank joke here? What fat person you want to take a run at Sean?

Yeah. I mean, who? Go ahead. You can fill in the blank. God bless. No. Oh god. Um but I did have something. You talk about breaching every time you have sloppy Joe, don't you? You always like when you're making a run for it.

I sure do. We got a breach. Wait, but I do have a really quick medical thing happen. Or do you want me to wait till later?

No, give us some of your coffee chat stuff. So So today cuz I'm not feeling well and so I woke up with a sore throat. Whatever. But so I went to the the doctor.

Wait, maybe there's something wrong with your CPAP. No, I didn't bring it. What? trying to bring my

truly truly. Wait, I don't understand. Hold on a second. Don't you mean cuz I'm going to sleep on my side or I sleep up now. I don't want to. I can't deal with it.

And what do you do? Just get like duct taped into position. Hey, but wait. I've seen a commercial for a guy. He's in a He's in a

Let's lock him up. It's downtime. There's a Yeah, there's a guy that's in like a circle like a like a support group for CPAP dudes and they're all wearing different flavors of CPAPs and they come to him and he's just got a clicker. He's got a clicker.

Is yours flavored? He's just got a clicker in his hand and he doesn't have to wear the hose. And so what is that? Have you looked into that?

No, I'm not. I don't I have no idea what you just said, dude. Dude looks pretty great and you can avoid the duct tape.

Anyway, I like the idea of showing that you have it flavored like a watermelon flavor. You know what I mean? just like a little

I would Well, that would be Yeah, that would be that would make it better. Anyway, anyway, all of my voices.

So, you're so I go to this doctor at this place and that was recommended. She was fantastic. And she So, I go in and I've never It must be an English thing. I go in and she's like, "Okay, take your clothes off." And Scotty's sitting there with me and I was like, "Sorry." And she goes, "Well, I got to check I got to check you out." And I was like,

"Wait, sorry. This is just take my shirt off. This is for CPAP." No, this is just I'm I have a sore throat. This is just like Yeah. She wants to check sore throat after one night. You go to the doctor.

Well, because they're going to go in the other way to make sure that it's not that it doesn't go.

They got to make sure both ends are Does this person have an office or is it something with wheels?

This is in the park. Sorry. One more time. Carry on. Next to the It's next to the ice cream truck. So, uh, so I go in there and she needed to check me out cuz I'm a new patient, right, in England, right? And she was like, so I go in there, she asked me to take I go, "You want me to take my shirt off?" She's like, "Yeah." And I go, "My pants, too?" She goes, "Yeah." So, I was like, "This is so weird." And so, I lay down flat.

Luckily, it's just a drawstring at all times, so you keep going. So, I lay down and she's check, you know, she's the tap on the thing and the tap on the chest and everything. She's checking my thing and then she

she's fully clothed right now, right? She's totally fully clothed. She lifts up my underwear and just goes, "All right, I just need to chuck out testicles." And she grabs my my balls and

under your underwear. She doesn't. Yes. She grabs them with her bare hands. And I was like, "Wow,

what? Was she able to see through the dust?" Did she snap a glove on at least? I don't remember. I think she had gloves on.

Sure. You went into a blackout. Yeah, I did. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

So, what was the prognosis? No, I was fine. I'm just not an Oh, Scotty. Heartbroken.

I'm straight. Yeah, that's the prognosis. So, just a sore throat. You'll be fine.

Yeah, I'm on antibiotics now. I mean, wow. Okay. Why does she have to feel my balls story?

Anyway, go ahead. Um, I was just thought that was really odd. Like, I've never had a

Hey Jay, listen. You got something to look forward to tomorrow night. Uh, you're going to get a sore throat when you get to London.

I'll I'll be doctor. I'll play the doctor. Yeah. Did you get Oh, you know the you know the drill now, so don't be surprised.

Did you get like a bulk visit type of thing? Is there a punch card that I can use one of those?

You know, one of your free visits. Yeah, we I'm actually going tomorrow again. All right, guys. Today our guest

Oh, it's Jason's guest. Yes, sir. Today, our guest is an actor, a comedian, a radio host, and a pioneer in podcasting. In fact, without him, we wouldn't be here. Having released over 1,600 episodes, 600 million downloads during his 16-year run, he has decided to put it to rest and move it onto the next

WTF. WTF. Here to tell us how he did it and hopefully how we can suck a little bit less is the goat himself, Mr. Will.

Mark Marin. Markin, please. Mark, reveal yourself. So, we didn't need to send you a microphone. Is that right?

When you said when you said we wouldn't be here without I was immediately I was like, it's Mark M.

Yeah. Not Dax Shepard. Although we appreciate You mean Dax Shepherd? Marin. Yeah.

Yeah. Wait, are you the dad? We found him on some level. I'm the dad. Yeah. Yeah, you are the dad and the goat.

Yes. Yeah. This is awesome. This is I did. I'm using my own microphone, but thank you for sending me the one I'll never use. I appreciate

Did we really send you one? Yeah, they sent me one. They were panicked, I guess. They were like, "No, no, no. Mark doesn't seem to know what he's doing."

Well, well, they heard you were done with your podcast, so they sent him. So they sent me one of these

of all people. Bennett, Bennett, Rob, turn your mics on. What are you doing? Why? Why are you sending someone to Mark?

We were giving misinformation. It's like sending a hockey stick to Wayne Gretzky. Like what are you doing?

When I got it, I was like, are you [ __ ] kidding me? What am I going to I guess I'll use this.

You know, it is it's it's our start gift. I appreciate it. I was surp we weren't as generous. We we'd put them in a self uh you know you could send it back to us when you were done using it.

Sure. Well, we're just silly over here. Well, no, it's it's been great. I was listening to the opening. It's a you know, exploring the dark side of luxury problems. Oh, yeah. Super relatable. That's what we are.

We try to stay as unrelatable as as possible and we're I think we're doing swimmingly.

Exciting medical story. I enjoyed that. Yeah, it remind it remind me of like when I was coming coming up as a comic, you always had to do morning radio

and you'd be sitting there, you know, waiting for a break before you'd go in with this morning crew just figuring out a way in, you know, hearing what they're talking about and just panicking like I I got a story on that. I'm going to start with that.

But that is the thing that I worry about with this with this silly thing, whatever we're [ __ ] doing is that but is it it's like it's like morning zoo or whatever like whack. Even when we get into the questions and the stuff like I don't want to be like a guy who's like obnoxious and always just waiting on an answer that I can make fun of.

Sorry buddy. Supposed to be a conversation, not a [ __ ] morning zoo. I think that's what uh you know the medium has sort of birthed you know just you know a 100,000 mediocre afternoon drive time radio host. I mean, right. Anytime I scroll on my phone on Instagram reels, it's like three or four white guys talking about the last time they [ __ ] their pants as adults.

That's us. I listen to that. I listen to that. Mark, talk to True. I know. True.

In fact, I think I've told that story. Maybe it's either on yours or on Dax's. But wait, talk to us about that. like what can you can you can you reflect and we'll probably ask you a few times during this about that like what what you started is is obviously it's it's an enormous uh business and and and and path to employment for a lot of folks nowadays. So we collectively can thank you for that. Um but how do you feel that it's are you proud of this sort of industry that you've kind

or is there blood on your hands? Yeah. Well, I don't I don't think uh Well, you know, it's once you create the bomb, you know, you kind of wash your hands of it like

you're you're Oenheimer, man. You're Robert Auburn. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know,

but it's morphed away from something that was really uh uh uh you know, this one-hour conversation or longer that I mean, obviously Rogan still does that, Dax does it, but it's

Oh, they do like three hours. Jesus, I'm watching that [ __ ] But, um it's hard to do that really. Well,

well, of course, I don't think that there was a a single way to do this. It's the only thing that I know in terms of starting it the way I did. I did it specifically, the only way really I knew how and the way that you know my emotions guided me to do it. And when we started it, there was no real podcast medium. There was a few of them around. It had been around a while. And the way I did it, the way it evolved was just my style and and kind of this idea of candid, authentic, vulnerable interviews. You know, I think it created a zone through which uh some people could do that. But I mean, it got more interesting when people were doing, you know, fullcale radio shows or crime shows or multimiked, you know, guys. It was never there was never a format other than a mic. So, because I did it the way I did it, even when you guys or at least two of you, sorry Sean, I'm sorry.

Joint just pile on. But, you know, when people were coming to my house, it was like, you know, where am I? what neighborhood is this? What are we doing? Is there a camera? And it was really there was nothing binding me to any sort of uh style or context. But I think because of the reason my my timing was good cosmically for once in my life that it took off. So this was one way to do it. And I think if anything my particular way of doing it made a lot of people think, you know, like if that idiot can do it, you know, I'm getting mics. So,

so, but but also you have to well, first of all, you brought up I mean you you you're a comic and you've been a comic for a long time. You've been doing it, you know, at the highest level for a long time. So, you know what you're doing. You're a funny dude and you have to be able to move it along. We're we're lucky it took three of us to do what you did by yourself.

Yeah, exactly. You know, I guess. But the one thing that I was excited about was I wasn't beholden to that. You know, I'd done some time on radio and once I learned how to talk on a mic by myself for long periods of time, that was a pretty big breakthrough. So that kind of served me in the podcast realm, but a lot of my monologues are not really funny. They're they're pretty honest and they're pretty, you know, visceral and and they are directly related to my life and it gets, you know, deeper and sometimes and others, but I wasn't beholden to comedy.

So what for me what it really became was engaging with a person without a real plan to see if we could get a conversation going and figure out where we met uh in terms of our issues, our problems, our lives, and whatnot. So what I was really sort of hoping for was connection and that's really what I think made what I do kind of different

that there there is no but you did so many first I remember well a couple things that that stick out that I remember I remember hearing before I listened to hearing that you got Obama on was really huge. I remember everybody was freaking out about like that was the first time somebody had done something like that gotten a president to come on the thing

and then you did the live shows too of which I did one of them actually in Brooklyn at at the bell. Yeah.

As well in addition to the going to your house and that was like I was like I remember you getting the call saying like Mark's doing this thing at the bell is live in the pie. I was like what what could that be?

It was different. Yeah, it was different. It was cool. I I was like, "Oh, okay."

But the reason for that really was, you know, Obama was later, but the live ones, there was no way to make money doing this, you know, at the beginning. There was literally no way. I mean, there, you know, advertisers weren't forthcoming. you know, we were using kind of old um terrestrial radio middlemen to get like sex toy ads and audible. Yeah. Our first ads were like Adam and Eve. You know, you get a free package of god knows what.

And we had this other advertiser from an older show we did just coffee, but there was no way to generate income. And unless you wanted to sort of do a, you know, kind of pay to listen kind of thing, but then you wouldn't build an audience. So the live shows were things we did separately and we created a different website so people would pay for them. there's no way to make money. So, the live shows were were kind of an income generating thing. I mean, at the beginning of this thing at my old house, we were just doing a tier donation thing. This was before uh you know what's that platform where everyone you you get paid on.

Uh Goofund or uh yeah, not GoFundMe, the other one where you have a site where people can pay whatever. Um everyone has them.

Patreon only fans. Yeah, Patreon. So, there was no Patreon. So, at the beginning, we just offered tiered donations and if you you gave a certain amount of money, I'd send you a t-shirt and some stickers and my house was filled with a thousand envelopes, you know, stuffing t-shirts because there's no way to make money.

Oh my god, I remember that. I remember your assistant there working at a table just [ __ ] stuffing envelopes.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It was It was crazy. But the Obama thing, that was a whole other thing. But I mean, that was crazy

in terms of the medium that kind of put it on the map. It kind of uh How did that come about? Was it legitimate?

And that was a result of your numbers being such that his team took notice of you and and suggested recommended to him that this might be a good spot for him to hit. I don't know if it was numbers per se as much as it was profile. And I think that really it came down to then that there was a fan in the Oval Office. I mean, an intern. I don't know who it was. Got it.

Uh but they they thought it would be good. It was his it was his last year, second term. you know, he was he didn't want to be a lame duck, I don't think. And, you know, he thought it would be or or someone in his world thought it would be a good look to to kind of do this. And I I remember when my producer Brendan McDonald was like, "Uh, Obama wants to come on." And I'm like, "Uh, so what? I'm going to I'm going to the White House." And he said, "No, he's coming to Highland Park." I'm like, "That's [ __ ] crazy."

Walk us through that pro. I I I always wanted to know that like this because we had the opportunity of doing with with with Biden and but what was that like but we had we went to him and we went you know went through all the protocols and stuff.

What was that like them coming to your neighborhood to your house completely unsecured? It was crazy. Well well you know at first you know I had a trip planned and I rarely take vacations so I told my producer I'm like I don't know you know I'm supposed to go to Hawaii. He goes no you're not going anywhere. So, so well the thing was, you know, the first things we had to think about was the way we do the show, which is not a political show. I mean, I can do that, but we had we had both of us had come out of Air America. And from the beginning of the podcast, we were like, we're not doing a political show because I don't want to carry that water. You can't really do politics with your own voice because you'll eventually end up just carrying whatever load it is of talking points for whatever party you're affiliated with. But right,

but the thing was is I like we got to make it a personal interview. You know, he did go to college down the street at least for a couple of years. He knows the neighborhood and we had to really structure it uh more than we do.

How much college did he go to around Highland Park? Yeah. At Accidental. Oh, right.

So, you know, we we had to Oh, so not on purpose. No, we had to structure it in a way that was for Sean. That was for Sean. Sean loves that. Sorry, Mark. Lowanging fruit is still fruit for me. I'm so sorry. Okay.

Throw the baby some candy every once in a while. We'll be right back. And now back to the show.

So they what they come two weeks before and they they strip search you. Here's what happens. So I end up going to Hawaii uh and

uh and reading his book and in the meantime Brendan who is in Brooklyn generally flew out to to meet the Secret Service to create a perimeter. And so you get all these Secret Service guys at the house and apparently, you know, Brendan was in the garage and he had a couple of guys on the roof jumping on it to figure out whether they could, you know, post guys up there and Brendan was like, "No, no, it's it's coming down."

Wow. I had to ask my retired neighbor if we could put snipers on his roof and it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to him. He he was thrilled to be involved. But uh you know the sort of the day of they the one thing that was scary is they put some sort of weird humming black box in the one spare bedroom I had. That was a small house if you remember. It's like less than a thousand square feet.

You remember the black I remember the black box too guys. Remember we tried to put our coffee on it and they said don't touch that thing and Rob remember when we were at the what it is it's like if all communications break down that thing has a a line into some sort of you know secret satellite network right.

Oh I see. Wow. So they got to put that in. And that was kind of that was kind of the most menacing thing. And I remember like the day of

Wow. So the day of there was like at least 15, you know, secret service people and then we'd set up tables on the deck there. It was my biggest fear was that that house had one toilet and I'm like, where's he going to go to the bathroom? What if someone needs to go to the bathroom? You I got to clean the the ba whatever. So, so we set up a table with listening stations for the uh for the White House people, for Brendan, for for whoever else needed them. So, there was like four or five sets of headphones out there. And the amazing thing about Obama that he there was no pre-in. We didn't have to get any approval of any questions. He was completely confident and lucid and he knew what was, you know, he knew what he was getting into.

But the funny thing was is that the Secret Service is coming in with the dogs and I got these cats. And I'm like, "Hey, is there any way you can skip the house? I got cats. I'm going to put them in the bedroom, but you you trust me enough to leave the cats in the bedroom now." Well, they said yes. And and they let me off the hook, but I don't know if that's going to get them in trouble, but I think they're probably out of the game anyways. But anyway, so I'm we're waiting now. You We're all in a waiting position. My my producer, he he wore a sports jacket. He's he's very proper dude. Yeah. And there and all the secret services is there and I'm waiting on outside and how I said, "How are we going to know they're coming?"

And we we'll give you a heads up when he's 20 minutes out. So what he was doing, he was flying from Beverly Hills in the Air Force 2 or whatever the the helicopter to the Rose Bowl to park there, which is about 10 minutes from my house.

So they're they're like, "But well, that's better than, you know, stopping traffic in the entire [ __ ] city of LA."

Yeah. So they they said go to Mark's garage. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. They cleared the street of of all cars. My some neighbors were pissed. A couple, you know, the Republicans were pissed, but the the the the rational people were like, "This is great. They're going to line the streets." So So they said, "20 minutes out, we'll tell you." But then all of a sudden, we see the helicopter. There's two Ospreys that that that kind of, you know, fly in front of the helicopter, and we could see him in the sky. I'm like, "All right, well, he's close." So,

so he and I'm just waiting at the gate and and the, you know, the motorcade pulls up and there's this flurry of people coming up my driveway. I don't I don't even see Obama. And then I see him and he just he's in the middle of this crowd. He waves like, "Mark." And I'm like, "Mr. President, you he walks up and he's like, "Are we going to have a good time?" I'm like, "I don't know." Um, but then, you know, we go into the garage. They only had one Secret Service guy, you know, at the door behind me. They had some sort of flack mat. That was another weird item that they actually left and I had to get back to them that kind of like if there's a an attack or something, it kind of pops up and protects him.

Wow. But it was all, you know, it was intense and I just tried to we had to cover some politics up front because there were things unfolding. But then it was a fairly standard WTF interview.

And the funniest part about it was that when he sat down, you know, uh, you know, I said, "So, you nervous?" and he said, you know, something like, "If I was nervous about this, we'd all be in trouble."

Yeah. He was pretty forthcoming, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Forthing enough. You know, he's a he's a he's a a genuine person. What he was was very very disarming and very candid seeming and and you know, willing and and thoughtful. But was interesting is that it was better to do a personal interview with him because he is kind of wonky and if you get into politics, it can get a little long and we only had an hour. So, we were able to kind of

do it and then for some reason he chose, I'm sure, very deliberately to say the N word on my show and that and that yeah, in relation to uh, you know, he was like, you know, racism is isn't over just because he can't say the N word and he said it. So, that guy, you know, a flurry of international news, so I had to deal with, you know, news crews in front of my house. But my

Yeah, there aren't enough t-shirts and stickers to handle that. Yeah. Yeah, but but but my producer was very calculating in terms of the press we did. He's a very smart guy. We, you know, we didn't engage with any of them. We just did uh we did Chris Hayes and we did Terry Gross and and that was it. And I don't hear from Obama at all. He's got my number, but uh you know, feel weird texting him. But you know, I mean, look, the fact that you a were able to book him says a lot about the the the spirit and the content of your show. Um, but your ability to get him to do a personal interview and and to get him to be forthcoming really speaks to

sort of I I I think what makes you so great at what you do and and are you comfortable trying to maybe kind of speak to that and maybe dissect that a little bit because, you know, this one-hour conversation, you know, there there needed to be at some point a confidence from you about me just freestyling and then having somebody sit down and me just kind of pop back and forth with them and have a conversation as opposed to being an investigative journalist needs to be compelling and I need to assume that that's going to be entertaining. What What made you think that your your hot takes on things and your personal kind of the way in which you can drive a conversation would be something really compelling because it it is.

Yeah. What gave you the right to think you could do this Mark? Like when did that when did that happen for you? just because I I know you've spoken in the past about um you know whatever the right words would be about you know uh uh your your your degrees of social comfort and and and what what fuels your standup and your cynicism and stuff which I share with you like a lot of that doesn't lend itself to being a conversationalist you know do you know

I I think what how it evolved is that you know I am uh you know innately and almost immediately codependent with any personality that sits in front of me. So, it it's just by virtue of my upbringing, I don't know what, but there there there was a the way it sort of started and and this is one of the reasons why, you know, we're winding it down is that, you know, I'm kind of allin no matter what I do. My standup is provocative and and personal and sometimes a little cringy and just my basic demeanor in terms of of of what I want to talk about and what I feel comfortable talking about and my need to connect with people is sort of ingrained in me and I'm willing to volunteer a lot of myself and I think that uh the conversations that in the beginning I was literally having comedians over to apologize to them. So I, you know, for for being a dick or whatever I thought my problem, you know, my issues were or

whether they were mad at me. So the the the style unfolded with me trying to to to get resolution and make amends and this and that. And also I think the way I characterize it is generally the first 100 episodes were me having celebrities over to talk about my problems. So

right and and that became a a way you know it's very disarming when you offer yourself.

Yeah. When you pull your pants down, it's everybody feels kind of safe and like, okay, so I guess we're going to be honest that

Oh, when you pull your pants down, everybody feels safe. Yeah. And confident. Yeah.

But so that's how it it sort of evolved and it's a need for me because I don't like my preparation is just getting a a broad view of of who people are, what they've done. And you know, it's evolved over time in terms of of how I handle certain interviews. If if somebody has a an an amazing if if it's an older person with a large bulk of work, I'll forego uh the the really personal stuff to really talk about the work. But, you know, it all gets mixed in.

Well, let me ask you, has it has it changed the way you I'll ask all all of you guys and and I don't know if I have an answer.

You say all y'all. All y'all. Has it changed I I'll speak for myself first. I think that doing this over the last five years, which is just un kind of odd to me. Um,

right. But think about that. We've only done 300 episodes. He's done 1,600. Amazing.

But for sure. So, so but for for us for the last 5 years, certainly for me, I can only speak for myself that it has changed a little bit the way that I talk to people. I don't just mean people out in the world like, hey, I'm a I mean just like people in general. It it has this has shaped a little bit um how I how I interact with people to to a certain degree. It it it's not the driving but it has become a big part of

who I am now u having these conversations and talking in this way I for whatever reason for for better or for worse.

Well, it's interesting because you guys you know are all actors and you know part of that craft from what I what I understand you know about 90% of it is being present and listening. So whether you were used to doing that in your real life or not, who knows? But I mean, it is a a tool that you all have uh to be present and listen

that's applicable to this. Yeah. And and and it's it's a real thing that you you know, because we're all kind of self-centered guys and you know, you kind of you want to get your word in. You want to you know, you're kind of half listening. But once you start to engage your your empathy and your ability to shut the [ __ ] up, uh you find that you you it it is the foundation of connection right?

And and I think that does change. I I think that I'm I'm so afraid to talk now. Keep going.

No, you go. No, no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, you go. But but it for me it took a lot to do that. And some people still are sort of like, why don't you let the guest talk? And I'm like because it's my show. So Yeah. And also, you know, over years you kind of, you know, when someone's going into a public narrative, and some of those are deeper than you can imagine. There's ways that that public people talk that, you know, there's sometimes I know like, well, I know this story has been told God knows how many times, but maybe my listeners, you know, haven't heard it. But if it's something that I'm like, well, he's, you know, or she's uh, you know, kind of autopiloting here, I'll interrupt until I can get them off of that and get them into some other place.

Did you ever get that thing? Um, well, first of all, did you ever uh read comments uh to when you put stuff out on social like to promote the show?

I try not to, you know, I I but you know, it's kind of addicting. I I I don't I don't check the numbers. I don't know what the you when Twitter was, you know, a viable thing. I would look at those and that would be upsetting. And it took me years to learn not to engage. I have an email.

I used to follow you on Twitter and you would sometimes engage and I would see the stuff that you would say.

It's a nightmare. Yeah, it's a nightmare. But would it change? Would it alter the way

cuz I remember I haven't looked in forever. Sure. Yeah. It expanded my self-consciousness, you know, which is just what you need to, you know, you take in just random [ __ ] trolling and you're like, "That guy kind of nailed it. I got to be aware of that,

you know." Yeah. Well, we used to have that. Exactly. And I used to have that early days. It would be like, and people, I'm sure, still do it. They're like, "I wish Arnette would shut the [ __ ] up. Why Why is he talking? Why is he interrupting?" By the way, the only thing I can remember as opposed to like, you know, Honor Hawkwin 2's comments about you,

you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some guy with four followers in the UK. You're like, "Oh jeez, I got to reassess my whole life for some idiot sitting at a computer." Because Exactly. There there is a there is a sense for some reason no matter how old you are we're older but but you know you see one comment you know on a social media platform and some part of your brain goes the entire internet thinks I suck

and it's like one idiot but but but still if if it's a bad morning you know you got to fight the urge you know

hey so Mark so when when you started WTF um you'd obviously had I used to listen to you on air America all the time and you' done a bunch of other things that what what made you take us back to what the landscape was for the medium um of podcasting? Uh like what what made you think that there was even money there, that there was an avenue there? What was

I'm I'm not a money guy. For better or for worse, I I ended up with some, but it's never been my driving motivation. My my motiv my motivation with comedy and and with this has always been like I want to be seen and heard because I don't know who I am. Yeah. So right,

so I am building a sense of self here and I want you all to be involved. But uh

but at the beginning we had Brendan and I Air America collapsed and you know and we you know I got pushed out you know to LA and I did a an evening show that no one listened to for a while but then it just went away and uh you know like at the same time I was going through kind of a miserable divorce and there was a a outreach from Air America. They're like, "We're we're we want to pull you back in to do a streaming show." And this is before streaming. This is like 2007. No one knew what streaming was.

So I'm like, "Fine." And I said, "Can you give me this amount of money so I can pay her off so I I can, you know, get my life back." So they gave me this money to pay her off. And then they gave me this job at Air America doing a streaming show with Sam Cedar that no one could really watch.

Sam Cedar. Love Sam Cedar. Yeah. I haven't seen him in so long. Anyway, so so it was me and Cedar doing this show that crapped out in a year and we knew it would. And I was like devastated and heartbroken. So I was kind of useless, but we were at the studios at Air America, that version of it, which was a very kind of broken down version. And once our our contract was up, you know, they they fired us, but we still had like two months on the on the contract. And being good liberals, they're like, "Well, you guys can use the offices," which is unheard of when you do a radio job. They're usually like, "Don't let him near the mics. give him his take away his card and get him out. But they didn't

Didn't Janique Garop have a show on Air America as well? Not then. No, that was the original one. But this was like this was when they had like Montel Williams and it was a and and uh who's that other guy?

Lionel, that weirdo. So, and we were just in this office doing a streaming show

and so we're out of a job and I said to Brendan, my producer, I said, "Look, man, there there are these podcasts. There's a few of them. You know, Corolla had moved his radio show into the podcast form, but it was really just a radio show, I think. Uh, who was around? Jimmy Partardo. Uh,

didn't Ricky Ricky was doing one like Jurves was like every once in a while kind of.

Yeah. Yeah, he was around, but there was only about five that had any profile really. Five or six. It was pre- rogan and it came and you could only find it on the Apple iPod itself, which is where it gets its name, podcasting. Right.

Well, that's what they that's the thing is that, you know, Apple at that time, I I said to Brendan, I didn't know that either.

Can you figure out how to do this? and and and maybe we should do it. And at that time, Apple just wanted anybody with a name to do them and they they'd get behind you because it's not a platform as much as is as it is just a you like it's not a server.

It was also it was it was part of the thing to like actually sell the hardware the iPod itself. You could only get it on on this new device that they were launching.

That's right. Wow. Wow. So So they kind of got behind us and we were kind of That's the first thing I've ever learned from Jason.

Yeah. Enjoy. It's all about that, dude. Same with Apple TV, you know, it's like that's just about getting people to get Apple TV ultimate.

Buy hardware. Yeah. Wow. So, so we started, you know, kind of going in after hours. We had cards. We knew the Night Tech and we were bringing guests up the freight elevator and it wasn't really the same show at the beginning, but it was all just sort of I needed to keep doing something. I thought my my comedy career was nowhere. I certainly wasn't acting. And I, you know, after I didn't, you know, I didn't know what to do with my life. So, it was kind of a Hail Mary, but there was no way to make money.

It must have been scary. Was it Was it a scary time or were you kind of comfortable with your your your set in life?

Well, I knew I knew that for whatever reason I was good on these mics cuz I, you know, I knew that and Brendan knew that as well that there was a way who knows why anyone's going to be good on these right?

Uh, but there was a way I I kind of approached it that was very sort of uh immediate and honest and and sort of searching. Did it feel like your last shot, I guess, is my question.

Yeah. I mean, like I I used to make a joke about it that I I you know, when I moved out to LA and I set the mics up in the garage, I was like, "This is the same garage I thought about killing myself in."

But uh No, no, but I had no expectations. There was no money expectation. It was just me trying to do something. And then, you know, through a through weird timing and and just, you know, trying to focus on building a social media presence, getting people who have that on the show, and then because the celebrity press had become kind of anemic, uh, you know, they people were locking in because I was doing their job for them. So, Vulture was there.

What was the moment? What was the moment where you you like looked at Brendan or looked at yourself and said, "Hey, we have something here.

We have some traffic on social media. People are listening to the show." that was starting to to happen, you know, because Vulture picked up on it pretty early. And then I think when we had, you know, when I went up to to the Bay Area to to interview Robin Williams, you know, those there was a couple of pretty big shows. I mean, we had, you know, fairly big people social media wise, but I think the Robin interview because it had never been done before, you know, before that or after. I mean, when he passed,

you know, that a lot of people were using that pieces of that interview because it was a rare thing and it was hard to get him and he was very protected and very insulated in in terms of, you know, how we were going to do it. And ultimately, I ended up driving up there that I did a lot of those kind of interviews early on where I talk in the car on the way,

but when I got up there, you know, it was just him and his house and an assistant. And I think that people didn't realize when if if you if if Robin is was in front of more than two people or two at least, it was going to be a show.

So when it was just one guy and and also a comic and also a guy willing to connect and talk, it was a completely different sort of Robin experience. But if there were one other person there, it would have been it would have been wrong because he would have just started jumping around and improvising. So, so I think that one really was was a big interview in terms of uh you know people

because people were hearing a quality from him that they were not uh we're not used to.

Yeah. Never. It was quite it was it was it was pretty insane man. Yeah. We'll be right back.

All right. back to the show and Mark now that you've done it for so long and I mean it's so impressive. I think Jason said 1600 episodes or something like that and it's become part of your identity and you're you know all you've done all these years and now you're wrapping it up. Talk about that like is that are you going to miss it? Are you going to think like who am I now and what do I do? And

I think I think so. You know, I I you know, it's a weird thing with the ego uh in terms of the world we live in and you know, what anyone considers relevance or irrelevance or uh I was talking to to Owen Wilson the other day about it because I'm on that show with him

and we were talking about, you know, stopping the podcast and he quoted some Salinger quote uh that was like, uh, you know, I don't have the courage to to to be, you know, just uh unknown. or just an average person. Uh but

but I think like what's happening is and the show has always really been about the arc of my life on the base level. It's been about me and you know and I talk to people

and I think at this point you know because we put the the amount of work we do Brendan and I it's just always been the two of us and he's a very specific very gifted audio producer takes a lot of time uh to put these shows together twice a week and and people it's it's people don't know that but you know sometime he'll spend like hours with an interview you know kind of uh you know finding a theme trimming it you know maybe moving things around. And it's so funny how many people have listened to their interview and are like, "God, I really nailed that thing." It's like, "Took Brendan 4 hours."

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we feel the same way about uh Rob and Bennett and the guys who Michael Terry who work with us. They they meant the same thing and and they're really good at the best in the biz.

You know, let me answer that real quick. Will, let me let me just answer Sean real quick.

Okay. I I apologize. I'm known for interrupting according to the guy from England. But the the the the thing is is like yeah I am nervous about the time but it's but viewing it as a piece of work as opposed to content and and you know sort of really assessing the need to to keep plowing along just because you can uh you know was sort of a conversation. we got a deal with a a platform Acast and that we were in that for years and it and it kind of made us, you know, the money that I think we deserved after working on it so long and now that's coming to an end. And we were talking before that about winding it down and our agreement was has always been like, well, I'm going to go as long as you go. Whoever cries uncle first and we'll we'll just honor that. But the truth is I'm there there comes a point with me because of the way I do it where maybe I'd like to have a little bit of a private life.

Maybe I'd like to not worry about which pieces and bits of my life or past I I need to kind of kind of bring up in order to to to satisfy, you know, what I do and the audience I've created who find a lot of comfort and a lot of uh you know, I I've helped a lot of people unknowingly, you know, get sober, not commit suicide, deal with uh authoritarianism. I you know, there was the way I do it. It was very comforting to a very specific audience. So there's part of me that thinks like why I I I owe them and they kind of live in your head and that gets a little emotionally exhausting. So I I think that by viewing it as a amazing piece of work, you know, of 16 years of a thing that never diminished in its quality and always had the arc of me and and and always was always interesting and engaging every episode that to sort of say we're done with this part of our lives kind of it kind of is good for the legacy of the

thing as opposed to being one of those people where it's like is Marin still doing it? That's crazy. You don't want to be that guy, you know? Right. Right. But do you like what I was going to say was you know when you hear like a you know an athlete retires and they say you're going to miss the game and what's funny is they always say you know I'm going to miss the guys I'm going to miss being in the locker room I'm going to miss the people that are you know I don't know anything about your relationship with Brendan other than you've mentioned him a bunch and he was obviously integral to your show. I mean that relationship is now going to change. Have you guys talked about that how that's going to shift?

Well you know it's weird. I've been working with him since he was 24 and now he's 44.

Wow. And you know, we met at Air America and he was an associate producer. So, and the the very odd thing about Brendan and I is that he's he's actually, you know, part of my brain. Like you I do these interviews and then I send them to him and my memory of them is of whatever I remember that day, but he spends hours with all them. So, I rely on him to remember things. And also, he's a very brilliant guy, you know, with politics and film. He's really the smartest guy I know and he's a great producer because he helps me frame things that I'm thinking, you know, which is usually intuitive and then, you know, he can give it depth and but but over the years it's always been a professional relationship. We're not really in each other's lives. He's more in mine because he hears me talk about it all the time, but we have, you know, it's one of the only relationships where the boundaries are healthy. There's uh full respect

there. We're 5050 partners and I don't lean on him lean on him for personal stuff unless it's really uh pressing. So, and we've never had a fight

uh you know since I've known him once and it's just uh so that relationship he'll be there for me if if if I need him but he needs a break. But I just think like what you're saying is true though. This this show is a f it's a prime it's a big part of my social life. It's a big part of my spiritual and and soul life in terms of engaging with other humans who are creative humans and and really talking about life which I think is important to do in one's life. But I I was doing it also as my my job and outlet. I I am going to miss that and and I imagine that I I should really give a heads up to my two friends that it's going to be hard for them for a little while.

Do you feel do you feel that do you feel that you're leaving Mark Marin in a better place than than where you found him when you started?

Well, I hope so because you know Mark Maron is going to be 62 years old in September and uh you know I just did it's weird and I know you guys have got a you guys seem to have a probably a a more expansive work ethic than I do but

but I I don't know. I just did a special, you know, that's going to premiere on on HBO August 1st, and it's really probably the best work I've done as a comic. That's great. I've done this thing for 16 years, and I'm I'm very proud of that as a as a a a a singular thing.

And uh you know, I I I wouldn't say I'm tired, but I I'd like to see where I am w without these responsibilities a little bit or without them being pressing all the time. I I don't know.

It Yeah, it is. It is. It's an interesting. I mean, yeah, you you're you know, you mentioned that that special on HBO and you mentioned Stick um with Owen and you know, I'd love that film you were in that Justin Criselle directed, The Order was just incredible. And like your your your career is

uh it's not even ascendant. Ascendant doesn't sound uh doesn't sound as respectful as I mean it to be, but you're you're things are great for you. So you you probably there's a part of there's a part of this while you're winding that down, it's almost because you might not even have time for it anymore because like

shifting. Yeah. And this and also it seems like uh correct me if I'm wrong like you're kind of allowing yourself to be a little bit um more in a healthy way selfish with your life and you're you're you're saying well I don't want to lend my personal life out anymore and monetize it. I want to keep my power inside and kind of enjoy being me. And I don't know. It sounds like a really healthy place that you're you're at. That's where I'm I'm trying to get, you know, you know, I don't know if panic will sit in. You know, I'm not great alone. You know, I don't have a a wife. I don't have kids. You know,

you got cats, Mark. Yeah, I got a few cats. And that's that's a whole other thing, dude. You know, I don't know what I'm going to do with Charlie. But but anyway, I got a I got a real [ __ ] of a cat. So, and the the this the [ __ ] the hard thing about cats is like at least kids grow up. the cats are like they're just going to be that and you know there's no teaching it new things or anything but uh but yeah I think that's true Jason I think I think that is that is ultimately what is happening and as you get older you give less [ __ ] about certain things

uh and and the acting and that kind of stuff I I've what I the way I see it is that you I do you know I've I've been able to do everything I I wanted to do only because I did this one thing on my own that that that got me out in the world

and I've somehow managed to remain kind of under the radar. I don't have like uh you know the weight of celebrity on me, you know, I'm kind of chipping away.

But you're on top of the radar with those that you I I would imagine uh respect, admire the audience you've actually been shooting for. You have and that's that I think is really admirable.

Yeah. I mean like I try not to like I I know I know I kind of know exactly who I am and what my it's not so much shortcomings are but there is an element like because I have friends who are big big you know stars and comedy or whatever and there's always that little party it's like you [ __ ] why am I not playing arenas and it's just sort of like dude could you imagine the weirdness of doing what you do in an arena just I I mean I I do a joke about it I say like I think I could play one arena centrally located in the country somewhere and I could bust my fans in, you know, like, you know, buses for Marin leaving out of Whole Foods parking lots in these cities.

That's so funny. But so I I I do know who I am and I do know one of the reason I am who I am has something to do with some fears, but but maybe those are those are good. Maybe those are self-protecting, you know.

Yeah. So now the question is, yeah, what do what do you what's dayto-day? Like what are you going to what do you want to do? Like if if you had your brothers if it was like hey man and which you kind of do what what's the deal? Is it uh wake up?

I'd like to try to figure out how to enjoy myself. I mean you guys seem So what's the path to that? Are you going to like learn how to Are you going to paint or are you going to learn how to serve?

Well, look, I do I do a lot of things, you know. I I've been playing guitar with people. I'm I'm playing uh you know I get together and with sometimes I do music shows. I've found the courage to uh sing in front of people and that's sort of daunting and interesting, but I you know what I really like to learn how to do

and and I don't know how to do it, you know, like when I when I act, you know, I think I do okay with it.

You do. You're great. Well, that's nice. You are good. And I I just did a feature indie feature where I'm the lead and I kind of, you know, I kind of manned up and pulled that up. We'll see if it gets out anywhere. But but there's this thing where

Wait, is that is that the one with Judy Greer? She's in it. And and but Lily Gladstone's in it. Sharon Stone, Alan Ruck,

uh, Michael McKeen. That's called In Memoriam. Yeah, dude. It's It's funny. And I watched a Final Cut and I Let me ask you this. Two questions about acting since we're here.

When you watch yourself, is are you always sort of like a [ __ ] why' I you know, I could like I mean, you can watch the whole movie, but you're some part of you is really focused on like, why' I do that with my eye? You know, I think

I will I will I will say that the fact that you're doing that that you're watching and you're and you're and you're you're you're being honest with yourself and you're that's will make you an incredible actor. I I've learned so much from seeing how bad I am on things and adjusting for the next job.

But but don't people say you're good though? Aren't they telling you that it's good?

Yeah, but you know you it doesn't matter. But I yes, I'm saying you need to I think you need to watch yourself. And there's so many talented actors that I work with that never watch themselves because they're afraid they're afraid that they're bad yet they're so good. And I I keep saying you're denying yourself like this this great treat.

But Jason, I think that you have a unique ability. I really I really mean this. And I I don't know if it's because you've been doing it since you were a little kid, so it's just so like ingrained into who you are, but you have a really good ability to separate and be objective. You really really do. It's it's it's a it's an honor. It's a me it's a um it's a great quality.

Yeah. And so you're able to go and look at stuff and now because also because you have that because because you direct. So you your your ability to be objective about your place in the story understanding where you are is I think unique. I don't think everybody has that. I know. Just just thinking about what Jason does like with the with the directing and then with the act like I'm getting anxiety thinking about his career.

So like I can't even [ __ ] wrap my brain around it, you know? Like I here's but here's the question that is kind of eating at me. It's like I was sitting with Judy at some junket for Stick cuz she's got a part in that too.

Oh wow. And she said to me, she said, "You know, the way you handle that character was was very unique because most people would have went broad with it." And I said to her, I said, "I don't think I know how to go broad." And she goes, "I don't think you do either." So, some part of my brain is like, "I got to figure out how to get broad, you know, how do I how do I become a broad comic actor? I don't have it in."

It's so funny. By the way, I I was just thinking I saw a video on social media this morning. Uh Sean, I don't know who I think the the play posted it of you just playing piano. Oh yeah, I saw that in the last couple days. The Gershwin.

Yeah, the Gerswin thing. And and Sean and Sean's about he's in London. He's about to do his his show in the West End. Um

Good Night Oar at the Tabasco or the at the barbecue. At the barbecue. Sorry. At the And and you're Sean and you're just sitting down. It's you're playing. You're not playing in front of anybody. and you would just start playing. And honest to God, and not to embarrass you, I thought

this [ __ ] guy is so [ __ ] talented. Yeah. No, it's true. And I thought like I couldn't do that if you gave me a million tries.

And you know what I know? And and I'm just thinking like, god damn it. Like what what am I doing? I'm fixing my bike in the garage.

I'm going to order a piano on Amazon right now. I literally went to get a new wrench at the hardware store and then rode back

and couldn't figure out how to use it and was trying to get the to raise my handlebars and

Yeah. for a half hour before you called the guy to fix it, right? No, I I I did it. I got the scars to I did it wrong and then my seat kept going down. Anyway, and Sean's there playing making beautiful art and I was like, "Ah, god damn it." You know,

that's really nice. I think we all have gifts and we've all lucky enough to be able to share them.

Yeah, it is pretty great, Mark. you know, like you you whatever your innate talent is, you have found a lane for it, a platform for it, um you know, a place to apply it and and and doing such good for so many that listen to you. But I'm I'm very happy for you that you are deciding to you know spend a little of that on yourself and reinvesting and you know

and leave on your ter and leave on your terms and also and and I reject the idea just before I also reject the idea and I know you say it because it's a kind of a funny one line like you know that people you inspire that that people thought well if Mark can do it I can do it. That's not true at all. I think the opposite is true. I think that you inspired people to

It's true. And you grew this medium and so that dum dums like us could do it. And that your tone and your quality and your honesty and your vulnerability um was a was a was a was a viable format.

I think the the the other thing I want to know is like because comedy look I I watch my new special and I and I like it. I have complete control out of that out of that of that craft and it's the best work I've done. I know that.

Great. and with this thing, but with comedy and with podcasting, it all it's all driven improvisationally. It's all going to it's all going to create itself in real time.

And with acting, that's different. So then all of a sudden, you got a script and you make choices and all that stuff, but I don't know really where none of my imagination goes into creating fiction or creating things outside of myself. Everything I do is impulsive and comes from, you know, the need to to connect. So, I'm kind of curious. Do I have creativity that is more disciplined that I can apply in another way? That's the big mystery. Do can I apply my talents to something that isn't essentially

Mark? Have you ever sat down and written? Have you ever don't I don't love uh I don't love writing, you know? I I you know it's exhausting but I I write a thing every week but reflections that are sort of poetic and I put that out into the world and I've done the writing but my my comedy is sort of formed on stage and in real time until it's it sort of sets and then I leave room for new things to happen for for like I did the special and I I you know I usually start with like an hour and 45 minutes that I tour with for a year and a half and then you know 3 weeks before I got to shoot I got to get it down to like 70 minutes and and figure out what the callbacks are and then I leave a little open space for things to drop in the days before or even that night so it it keeps it alive and you know but I I'm very confident in that craft and and I'm very confident in this talking on the mic thing but like

with acting or I I you know I've set in motion uh uh I'm going to direct a film based on my buddy Sam Lipight's book

and hopefully that'll great that'll happen you know but that's a little daunting and scary but I guess I'm not afraid to take the chances. Oh, it sounds like it's of course you've got creativity. What are you talking about? You're doing it all.

Yeah. In answer to your what I think your question is about the application of what you here to have been doing which is basically freestyling improvising. You you are coming first and then the words follow, right? That's you're writing for standup, you're freestyling on the microphone of your podcast. How do you apply that same level of um accuracy, authenticity um into something that is uh by its own definition pre-written, right? A movie, a script or outside. Yeah. How do you find that level of of of uh of Mark Marin in acting? I will say that you are allowed when you um take on a character to make that character simply just another part of who Mark Marin is. You know, there there are goalposts. You're far right, far left of of who Mark Marin is. And then you just find whatever version that character is closest to you inside of those goalpost. So you're so you're still being Mark M. It's just the words

are written beforehand and you got to find the version of you that fits those words. And so you're still kind of ex um you're you're still uh uh exhibiting who you are um and and should still be able to find some enjoyment from that.

Yeah, I I get that part where you kind of turn things off or turn things on within you. I get that with the acting. My question is like can I do something like like if I direct, you know, I don't have a vocabulary for that. I don't have a style. So that's completely outside of me and I'm just going to have to figure out what that is. Can I could I

You don't need to do that on the first one. Just just exercise taste and just sit there and watch the results of other people's work and say yes to this, no to that, a little more of this, little more of that. It is the one person on the set that doesn't have a job. So, you don't really actually need to do anything. I'm not suggesting that's the right way to be a a director, but I've worked with a million that work that way. It's very common. So, you need not be overwhelmed with I got to do a bunch of [ __ ] walk before you run and just sit there and just be the arbiter of taste, you know?

Right. Okay. Well, I can I I I will do that. Yeah. And you can do that. You've got great taste.

[ __ ] I've learned a lot from Jason today. Holy [ __ ] Amazing. Unbelie Who's this guy?

I'm starting my own podcast next week. I wanted to tell you guys about I'm listening to it. Are you kidding me? I can't wait. Holy [ __ ] It took us 300 episodes to get through to you.

I've arrived. Wait, if it wasn't for Mark, you know what I mean? How about this? This is the first interview, a first guest I've ever had that I didn't get to one single question. Yeah.

Um, and we're already 6 minutes over 1 hour. So, that is a testament to you, Mr. Mark Marin, knowing the gift of Gab, knowing what you're doing, keeping the conversation going.

Can I share one story though for Sean? Yes, please. So, wait, is Sean are you still here?

Yep. There he is. I just I took a bathroom break. I'm back. Well, he talked about the the doctor that did the full examination for the uh for the surgery. Like like I went into like one of my old guy physicals, you know, uh I guess it was probably last year

and now for the they for the prostate test. They they only they only do the blood test and like so you know I

finger's gone, right? Well, that's I didn't know that. So the guy said I said, "Well, are we going to do the the the the finger thing?"

Not for me. He says, "No, no, we we don't do that anymore. You know, they do it with the blood." I'm like, "Well, is that is that effective? I mean, you find that the results?" He's like, "Yeah, no. We we we just do the blood test." He says, "I can I can do the other thing if you want."

I'm like, "Well, I would feel better. I would feel better if you did." So, I requested a finger bang from the doctor. Yeah.

And he did. And he did that. He did. And and and my my diagnosis is it's not clear.

He needed to go back in. You said you said uh go ahead. Why don't you go ahead and toss a ring on too before you get in there?

He said he'd like to see you again next week. Yeah. Yeah. He's here now. You're a little bit of a You're a little bit of a hypochondriac though, like I am a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I Well, I grew up with a a doctor father, so it was a real way to get attention. Like, you know, I think I have cancer,

so Right. Right. But uh but yeah, I' I've got I I you know, I got a you know, I I got a I got a handle on it. You know, it doesn't happen as much. And when it does happen, it it runs pretty deep. Like, you know, like I can usually say like just wait a couple days, it'll probably go away. That kind of stuff. But if I really lock into uh I think I have cancer, I'll I'll I'll go all the way through it and I'll sit in my bed and just sweat, you know, man. Me too.

Anticipating the nothingness. That's called intelligence. And and being creative, the the ability to sort of like create these scenarios in your brain that are

That's how I use my imagination. Just all driven by panic and fear. I I really like to free it up.

You know who doesn't have panic? dummies could be, you know, it takes a lot of intelligence to like create this like

funny. But don't they seem a little more happier than we are when they're not talking about

blissful ignorance when they're not talking about QAnon? The happiness is not as profound. How about that?

Okay. Well, that's a projection, but you know, hold on to it. Uhhuh. Mark, we uh we love you and we thank you. I just

You're the greatest. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it and you guys are doing great.

Thank you, man. Well, thank you. you please keep keep on jamming and um will you consider at least maybe doing a special once a year or something just just to just to and I and I don't mean the incredible specials on Yeah. Yeah. Come back with WTF and give people updates.

Well, I have to figure out like I think there's other ways. Well, maybe it's the podcast version of the Letterman show. You know what I mean? where he does like you know I I could do that but then you're kind of like who's you know my my producer kind and I don't really do much without him but I think there is a a world where you know I could at least you know maybe

uh after a little time off you know get on the mic you know once a week just to talk without people

uh that might happen I I don't know we want it we need it please do it right best of luck to you my friend thanks for take care you guys good luck the show. Sean, break away.

Thank you, pal. Thank you. Appreciate it. Bye. Bye, Mark. Boy, that that that Mark Marin, I mean like you know, so Willie Sean, unfortunately, you never did a show, but Willie, doesn't it sort of you just sit there, you listen to him, and you just he just kind of rocks you into this place of like, oh, I just want to tell you everything about me.

Yeah. You know, he's almost like a therapist, you know? Yeah. Without being solicitous. He's just he just kind of goes first and there's just like this nice quality He just starts talking and and you're just having a conversation. You forget that you're doing it and and all of a sudden you're telling him stuff that you haven't ever talked about in that way before.

Yeah. It's a really talk about gifts though. Like that's his gift is like you know like you was very nice of you to say that Willie, but like we all really do have gifts and he his gift is to just be able to um constantly keep a conversation going, be interesting, never not be curious. He's always curious about every single person and it's uh really an intelligent conversation. You get sucked in. Yeah. I'm glad that at least he will always have uh his uh his his standup to sort of just

just I'm excited for his new standup special. That's gonna be great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is he mentioned it earlier, but just just to make sure that's that's it's called Panicked. Uh and it's going to be on HBO uh August 1st. Um and then it'll stream on the Max after that. But listen, it's great. Such a big fan of his.

Yeah, same here. He's always been such a good dude. And I figured, you know, Sean, you're mentioning the gifts and, you know, he has that and Jason, we talked about your gifts and Sean and you have your gifts and I don't know what I wasn't I wasn't given any gifts, but you know what? Hopefully one day I'll be in a position where I'll be able to buy one.

That was pretty good. Yeah. Bye. Smart. Smart glass smart list is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry Rob Armjarf and Bennett Barbco. Smart less.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Marc Maron | SmartLess"?

In order: 0:00 East Hampton, London, Martha's Vineyard, Sag Harbor; 10:00 Audible, Brooklyn, Dak Shepard, GoFundMe; 20:00 Secret Service, Highland Park, White House, Air America; 30:00 Air America, Apple TV+, Montel Williams, Vulture; 40:00 Air America, Mark Maron, Michael Terry, Owen Wilson; 50:00 Alan Ruck, Amazon, Good Night Oar, In Memoriam; 1:00:00 Michael Grant Terry, Panicked.

What is mentioned in this SmartLess episode?

62 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Air America, London, Secret Service, East Hampton, Panicked, Brooklyn. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Marc Maron | SmartLess"?

The episode runs 1 h 8 min; the transcript is about 14,955 words in 287 timestamped sections.

More from SmartLess

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 18, 2025.