Transcript

Mel Robbins | SmartLess

From SmartLess · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 5 min · 13,361 words · 295 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Mel Robbins | SmartLess", an episode of SmartLess published September 8, 2025 (1 h 5 min, about 13,361 words). It mentions 35 people, works and ideas, including Let Them, Anxiety, SmartLess, The 5 Second Rule, San Francisco.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Buckingham Palace, Hollywood Bowl, Let Them, London
  2. – 20:00: Let Them, Anxiety, SmartLess, The 5 Second Rule
  3. – 30:00: San Francisco, The 5 Second Rule, Anxiety
  4. – 40:00: Anxiety, Dyslexia, Executive Function, Instagram
  5. – 50:00: Let Them, Anxiety, Let Them Theory, Buddhism
  6. – 1:00:00: Let Them, Vermont, Anxiety, British Open
  7. – 1:04:53: Let Them, SmartLess

Notable quotes from "Mel Robbins | SmartLess"

  • Welcome to Smartless. we limp across the finish line.
    about SmartLess · at
  • Got to be stupid and also like why would they if it was for tourists then they let them in if nobody, you know.
    about Let Them · at
  • Love, and I can't wait for you to tell Jason what that is. And Will, what about the 5-second rule? Can you just go over the 5-second rule because for people who don't know, it…
    about The 5 Second Rule · at
  • I'll move like a rocket. I won't be in there when the anxiety and the depression hits. I'm going to move.
    about Anxiety · at
  • The ends meet. And a buddy calls me from college and says, Hey, there's a person who is putting on an event in San Francisco that I know that's looking for somebody who's…
    about San Francisco · at
  • Started to not yet like 2012 if you we you can scroll back manually through Instagram. You have to do it manually.
    about Instagram · at
  • The main source of resistance and fear in our lives is our fear of other people. And the let them theory was something that I discovered and it has fundamentally changed my…
    about Let Them Theory · at
  • Years, I have stayed laser focus on what really matters. I live in the middle of nowhere in Vermont. I have no interest in the bigness aspect of all of it because you guys know…
    about Vermont · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Jimmy Fallon — Person · 1 mention · first at
    These guys. I literally Yeah. Well, actually, you and I are going to be on Jimmy Fallon on the 17th of September, and I'm I'm sorting through your garbage to see if you've…
  • Laura Anne Nelson — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Said part of me thinks I spent all my life to win these tournaments to win this tournament the Byron Nelson in his home in my hometown to have a few minutes of like yeah and…
  • Gabor Maté — Person · 1 mention
  • Jason Bateman — Person · 1 mention
  • Scotty Scheffler — Person · 1 mention
  • Sean Hayes — Person · 1 mention
  • Will Arnett — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

Products & tech

  • SmartLess — Product · 3 mentions · first at
  • British Open — Product · 1 mention · first at
    It's on No, it was the sort of a the few days leading up to the Open, the British Open, the Gulf, and Scotty Sheffller gave this press conference that I found to be…
  • SmartLess Live — Product · 1 mention
  • SmartLess.com — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Anxiety — Concept · 7 mentions · first at
  • Let Them Theory — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
  • Executive Function — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    That I'm related to who have who've been diagnosed with having deficits in when it comes to executive function and I was going to say that earlier there is that moment of and it is one of the symptoms of a particular type of ADHD where you.
  • Dyslexia — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Really life-changing for people to learn. If you have undiagnosed ADHD or dyslexia or executive functioning, what happens as the primary symptom is you develop anxiety because…
  • Buddhism — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Different way to live. And the let them theory is ultimately a modern version of stoicism, Buddhism, the serenity prayer.
  • Serenity Prayer — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Different way to live. And the let them theory is ultimately a modern version of stoicism, Buddhism, the serenity prayer.
  • 5 Second Rule (psychological tool) — Concept · 1 mention
  • ADD — Concept · 1 mention
  • Stoics — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • San Francisco — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • Vermont — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • London — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, it's pretty weird. so Shanie, you're still in London.
  • Buckingham Palace — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Of blown away when we I went for a walk with me Jason and Franny and we walked past Buckingham Palace and I asked a genuine question. Such a beauty will if the family actually…
  • Los Angeles — Place · 1 mention · first at
    You're so helpful the way you talk to me. This fall, Saturday, November 15th, here in Los Angeles. If you're in the area, Saturday, November 15th. When do tickets go on sale then?
  • Hollywood Bowl — Place · 1 mention · first at
    All right. So, listen. So, once again, that's this fall at the Hollywood Bowl, November 15th. You can start getting tickets on September 12th.

Sponsors

Full transcript with timestamps

All right, listener. We're going to start with a little uh a little brain tease for us just to get us up on our feet and get nice and sharp for the chatter and the banter. What we're going to do, we're going to try a quick little um podcast exercise. Here we go. Ready? I'm going to start it out. Ready? S.

We're going to start one more time. Still rolling. Uh here I go. I'm going to start. Ready? S

M A R T L L Well, we're going to go again. We're not really up to podcast. Your

turn. It was my turn. No, but No, but why were you pausing? We What are you going to scare? I was going to get the wrong letter.

You want to write it out? Write it out in front of You don't know how to spell smart. Listen, this one. We're like a thousand episodes.

I'm going to start again. Here we go. In 3 2 1. Ready? S M A R T L E S. You almost made it.

Welcome to Smartless. I mean, we limp across the finish line. No wonder that's the title.

Smartless. Smart. Smart glass. You know, Will, it's really uh Will, it's uh it's odd to see you this morning. I um yesterday um Maple uh for um the uninitiated listener. That's my youngest daughter. She's 13. Um uh she's got some friends that um uh were talking about Arrested Development. So, she said to me, "Well, I'd like to see Arrested Development." She hasn't really seen it, so

Oh, wow. U Shut up, Sean. You haven't seen it. I should watch it with her. Um yeah. No. Um, so I was watching Arrested last night, season 1, episode 3, four, and five.

I mean, there he is. Look at him. Look at this. There's Job right there. I am a little starruck. Boy, we were such little kitties. That was 25 years ago.

It's crazy. Isn't that amazing? We look very different. We all look very different. I know. And it's Sean has no point of reference, but it's other than his memory sections or something. By the way, Jason, he also knew us at the time we were on the show, too. So, he was watching then.

I know. This was during the time we were watching Will and Grace. One of us was actually on Will and Grace.

I went on it. Yeah. Well, how about that? Wait, what does it feel like you guys 25 years ago? Doesn't it feel like just a week ago?

Uh, it does. Yes and no. It does. 25 years is pretty short at this age. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's pretty weird. Um,

so Shanie, you're still in London. Sean, what's the elevator update? Sorry, I just I haven't asked in a while. So, how are we doing? We Okay.

Well, when Jason came, it was broken the day before he came. Then they fixed it.

And I'll have you know during the What is it? What was it there? Four days. Yeah.

Four days. Didn't ride the elevator once on purpose. I got through because of that.

No, no, no. I just I was like, "No, I can do these stairs. I'm going to I'm going to pretend that I'm back in the olden days."

That's right. That's right. Yeah. This this thing was built this townhouse was built in 1770. Criy. I know that's Aussie

elevator too. Um and Willie, you're still in uh you just slogging it out there in bluecollar Long Island, you know.

Yeah. Putting the how you do it, man. No air conditioning and uh sweeping the steps. I mean, you know, I mean, this is this is such a for me it's such a I'm getting whiplash because like I'm normally I'd be in the in the ocean right now. I'm playing golf with Beerman tomorrow,

right? Why? Why? What do you mean whip? What do you mean? Oh, you mean just cuz I'm having to do because I'm doing this. No, cuz I had to come downstairs to do this.

Oh, sorry about that. So, sorry to interrupt. Hey, how has golf been? I'm going to actually hit balls today for the first time in over eight months, probably.

Wow. I I I just want to say this. My my my best part one of my favorite things about JB uh one of the many many things that I love about him is a his when he's playing golf he's playing golf and when he's not he's really not playing like he won't he won't go at all

but Jason what's funny is the number of people who are aware of it and I get so much on the fringes of like hey I get text like is Jason playing again is he started is he started yet like everybody knows that when it starts it's going to be an avalanche

so I get you know What else it is? It's people. People People miss me, Will. They miss There's a big hole in their lives

and they want to know when it can be filled again. Yeah, you're right. They want that. You're right. They want that hole. They want that [ __ ] that hole back.

What? It's a-hole. It's a-hole that they want back. Um, has your has your is your game your game must be good enough where you haven't you haven't given up the game? No, it's actually uh I I didn't play for a little bit and uh it's actually been pretty good recently to be honest. Oh, God bless.

Yeah, my I I mean I don't know if our audience wants to hear I'm hitting irons, but you know.

No, of course. You're hitting irons, no woods. I'm hitting irons. Well, it's been good. Yeah, it's been good.

Hey, sorry about that. You will. I said I I preemptively said sorry. I haven't seen you guys for a couple of

Oh, we got a classy guest. I can tell by Sean's embarrassment. No, not at all. I wanted No, I wanted to share with Will what um Jason was kind of blown away when we I went for a walk with me Jason and Franny and we walked past Buckingham Palace and I asked a genuine question. Such a beauty will if the family actually lived in the palace and I was I'm bit the point is

he wanted to know if it was just a tourist stop that's size place all the the infrastructure in and around it and everything just just for people to walk by and look through the gates

to look at like cuz I thought it was like the Mona Lisa like I don't think the Mona Lisa the real Mona Lisa is hanging I think that's got to be stupid and and also like why would they if it was for tourists then they let them in if nobody, you know.

Oh, that's true. And I I looked at him like he was uh, you know, the kind of the kind of doorork knob that would say, "Hey, boy, Beatles is spelled B E A T. I never knew." And I'm like, "They still they still live there." And of course, they've got other castles that they live in sometimes, too. But that's home for them. He's like, "Oh, really?" I go, "Yeah, you dumbass." No. Two hours later, he pulls me aside in privacy and goes, "Hey, no, seriously. Do they still live there? I'm like, yeah, you [ __ ] dumbass. I didn't want anybody else to hear me.

I've been thinking about it. Yeah, for two hours. Like, wow, they really live there.

You know what? Next time, spare yourself the embarrassment of us chewing you out. And just look at Turn on the Google.

I know. I was I know. I had it. I had it I had it um in my brain that I needed to Google it later.

But But is there most of the memory on your phone taken up by Candy Crush? Is that the problem that Google that they've throttled your Google down?

What's my data? No. All right. So, we haven't done a record for a couple weeks right?

So fun to see you guys. I know. It's really fun to see you guys. You guys look great. I miss you guys so much. And then you guys texted me a really nice text and said that we're here. Jason was very sweet and squishy and said, "We we're here and we're thinking about you and we're talking about you. We miss you."

Response. And I know. Well, I was like I almost cried. I It was so moving. And then I sent you Oh, then I sent you another I sent you a little link to a fun pair of shoes that uh we all thought that you'd actually respond to that

about three days later. Well, you know, I'm on a delay. You're not that busy. And I know that that that phone is attached to your little holster right right next to your sidearm. You're always on the phone. Why do I take three days to get a response if I don't text you enough?

No, he Will's not a super fast text back. I'm not I'm not I'm really because he's busy doing

No, when I'm out here, I do try to leave my phone put my phone down as much as I can. That

is true. Oh, dude. Riley. I haven't heard Riley in a while. All right, guys. Before we get to to to the guests, can I just let's

Yeah. Let's let's let's remind everybody our We're very excited about this news, y'all. We are bringing Smart List to one of the most iconic spots in the world. And no, we're not talking about Sean Cereal Bowl. We're talking about the Hollywood.

So if you're in that Hollywood area when it this fall, you know when it is. You're so helpful the way you talk to me. This fall, Saturday, November 15th, here in Los Angeles. If you're in the area, Saturday, November 15th. When do tickets go on sale then?

The tickets again. really will. Um, Friday, September 12th, 10:00 a.m. Pacific time. Tickets go on sale. Friday, September 12th. Come see us live.

Yeah. Before Jason's bedtime. Okay. Yeah. Before I go to bed or I could sleep on stage. It's fun to see me.

What are the some of the things you think we can see? I think that we're going to have some guests. We're going to have some

You're going to have a guest. I'm going to have a guest. Sean does not get a guest.

But I'll bring a bowl of cereal just to close the loop on the little bush. That's what a loop closer you are. You've been closing loops since 1970.

Not just Froot Loops. Okay. Wow. All right. So, listen. So, once again, that's this fall uh at the Hollywood Bowl, November 15th. You can start getting tickets on September 12th.

And our listeners have a chance to get tickets first, right? Our pre-sale begins Tuesday, September 9th.

September 9th. Yeah. At 10 a.m. Pacific time. Visit smartlist.com/live and enter our code. And you guessed it, it's Tracy. T R A C E Y for first access. That's our listeners with a pre-sale uh uh chance. September 9th, 10 a.m. smartlist.com/live, guys. Tickets go on sale Friday.

And you can't Can you tell me who your guests are? No. No. It's supposed to be a surprise. Dingdong.

A surprise. It's going to be a surprise to the audience too for the first time, right? Well, I guess these live shows it's not the first time, but like

JB, you were just you were just at the bowl, too, right? just at the bowl uh watching some classical music with uh with Amanda and the girls and uh they they hated me for Yeah, they they got some nice uh eye rest. Um but Gr granddad was really enjoying it. I had a good time.

Um anyway, but we're going to we're going to liven things up there on uh on on Saturday, November 15th. So get your tickets starting on the 12th of September or pre-sale on the 9th.

It's going to be a brilliant. It's going to be a lot of us. Okay, let's get to our guest. Come on.

Coming overseas to see it. All right, here comes our guest. Guest. Our guest. Our guest.

C. By the way, circling back to Google. Here's somebody you don't have to Google

because CEO of Google. Yeah. Could you imagine? No, she's better than that. She's bigger than that. She's amazing.

Bigger than Google. Yeah. Jesus Christ. She's Yeah. I'm a little intimidated by up. She's one of those people who makes you wake up, quit complaining, get yourself together. No. Back in college, she proposed to her boyfriend. They got married. They're still together behind her signature black rimmed glasses.

She's a podcast powerhouse, a fog mole, and the number one bestselling author in the world right now.

Please welcome the fun. That's it. 5-second queen herself, Mel. Oh my god, you said my name.

Oh my god. I literally like these [ __ ] losers are going to spend 50 minutes figuring out who this is and they never guess it's me. I will just shrink.

Can you believe these [ __ ] losers? I was I was thinking the same thing about these [ __ ] losers. We're on the same I'm not in that.

I'm separate from that. But thank you. You're welcome. And you know, I got news for you guys. Sean called me. He's sick of your [ __ ] He can't change you. So heavy. Yes. This is an intervention.

This is a transition. Mel, you're taking over for show. Sean Robbins. She's adopted me. I'm Seawn Robbins.

Oh, good luck. Good luck having him. Me and Robin. What an honor to have you on the show, Mel. This is very very nice of you slumbing in with us.

I know you are sluming in. Yeah. Well, you know, I I I honestly was blown away because I know one of the criteria is you have to guess who the guest is. And I thought, oh, well, unless Sean says she's constantly ahead of us on the rankings in the podcast charts, you probably That is true.

That was looking that came up. I I was just discussing you last week with some fancy folks and they were they were singing your praises and and I they were telling me about the whole let them thing and so I'm very eager to hear about

I can't wait for you guys to hear about it. Yeah. Come on. Let it like too. Oh, there it is behind you.

Well, do this first. Mel, if you don't mind jumping in. First of all, thanks for being on here. Huge fan. I I I love how you speak, what you speak about, how you motivate me, how you motivate everybody. Like, it's I I can't get enough of it. I really This is This is me motivated. No shower. I look fantastic.

But um but Mel, can you first talk before we get to Let them Them, which I love, and I can't wait for you to tell Jason what that is. And Will, what about the 5-second rule? Can you just go over the 5-second rule because for people who don't know, it sounds like obviously what you do when you drop the food on the floor and blah blah blah. Well, it is kind of like that. So, you know, I think the first thing to understand is that everything that I talk about, I learned the hard way by screwing up my own life. And I don't think any of us wake up in the morning, well, Will might, but I most of us don't wake up in the morning and go, you know what I'm going to do today? Today, I'm going to [ __ ] up my life. I think I'm going to drink too much and lie to people and lose my job.

What ends up happening to most of us is over time, you spend too much time thinking about what you need to do and not doing what you need to do,

right? And I found myself in a situation when I was 41 years old, three kids under the age of 10, where my husband had gone into the restaurant business,

lost almost a million bucks. Oh yeah. Like complete idiots. We secured it with our life savings. And the restaurant business was great until 2008 hit

and like everybody else, the world turns upside down and we found ourselves 800 grand in debt.

Right? The leans hit the house. I lose my job and I couldn't get myself out of bed. And let's be honest, getting out of bed is a relatively easy thing to do when you think about the mechanics. I mean, by the time you're 41 years old, you've done it for 41 years,

right? But the simplest things in life can seem impossible when you're overwhelmed or stressed out or anxious or you have so many problems or depressed or whatever. And so

I just found myself in this situation where I would literally wake up every morning and stare at the ceiling and basically be like, I hate my life. I hate my husband. I don't know how I got here. We're [ __ ]

And the more I thought about the problems, the more I felt like a human pot roast marinating in bed.

And it became harder and harder to get out of bed. And you know, honestly, I was literally I knew what to do. And I think this is one of the biggest things about life

that life is simple. We just seem to make it very complicated. Mhm. Yeah. You can know what to do in any situation. And you guys talk about the Google. Just go to Google or that chat GTP thing and put in whatever it is that you want and it'll spit out what you need to do. Making yourself do it is what feels impossible. And so one night I was watching TV. It was a it was Monday night in February 2008. And you literally are one decision away from a different life. That's that is the heart of what I talk about. The power of your decisions. And I was giving myself that pep talk. You know, when you I don't know if you guys have ever you can give each other pep talks. When you're giving one to yourself, you're kind of screwed where you're like, "All right, that's it. Tomorrow it's the new you woman. You got to pull your [ __ ] together. You got to stop being an [ __ ] to Chris. You got to put down the alcohol. You got to

get those kids on the bus. By God, you got to you got to get a job. You got to open the bills that have been piling up for 6 months. And when that alarm rings, you can't lay there and marinate in your fears and hit the snooze button six times. You woman have got to get out of bed. And honest to God, a rocket ship launched across the television screen. It was probably like at the end of a smartless mobile commercial, you know, like launch right in there.

No, but it's not a bad idea though for steal it. Take it. Just write that down.

Take it. Steal it. Is my idea. It is when you claim it like that. So I literally

That's good. I thought, "Oh my god, it's a sign from God. That's it. Tomorrow morning."

What? Just a rocket on the on the TV on the TV. Is that what you're talking about?

Yeah. Well, well, it was probably the four Bourbon Manhattans I had that gave me that idea cuz it was kind of stupid. But I drinking a lot that back then. And so

the next morning, Tuesday morning, the alarm rings. And here's the fatal mistake everybody makes. There is this moment where you know what you should do. You should speak up. you should start the damn thing. You should quit the job. You should end the relationship. You should go to the gym. But instead of doing it, you stop and think about how you feel about doing it.

Mhm. And within 5 seconds flat in that hesitation, you literally switch gears in your brain. I didn't know this at the time. I do now. But the longer you think about it, the less likely you're going to do it. And in about 5 seconds, you lose all motivation.

Wow. And your whole life plays out in this 5-second window. It's And isn't there science to this, too, right?

Tons of science. I mean, now I know the science. I didn't know it then. Then I was just hung over waking up to a life that was a nightmare and habits of avoidance. And so,

what was the thing you saw at night on TV? It was It wasn't literally a rocket. Uh,

it was a rocket ship, but at the end of a commercial, it was like launched and I was so drunk. I was like, "Oh my god, it's God. Okay, I'll get out of bed. I'll launch myself out of bed so fast. I'll move like a rocket. I won't be in there when the anxiety and the depression hits. I'm going to move.

You took it as a metaphor. Uh you took it to heart and it stayed with you the next morning and up you went and inside.

Well, I counted backwards and that's the part. What would have happened if you'd seen an image of a sinking ship?

Oh god. Right there. Done. We're out. We're just going to clock out right now just for a listener. I don't know.

Or or just the flaming Hindenburg. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But the the thing is Jason very astute point you have to count backwards.

Okay. Okay. It's not just moving in 5 seconds. The counting backwards is critical. What researchers call it

like a launch. Yes. 5 4 3 2 1. You have to count backwards. It doesn't work if you count up.

Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 doesn't work cuz you've been saying that ever since you learned how to count in whatever language you learned how to count. When you count backwards, you have to focus for a moment. And that brings your prefrontal cortex online, which is the part of the brain that helps you make decisions. It's the part of the brain that helps you learn new behavior. It's the part of the brain that you need to use if you're going to lock in new habits. And I had a habit of just hitting the snooze button and avoiding everything. This new habit was about taking action. 5 4 3 2 1 move

before you feel ready. So the countdown is supposed to be this is how many seconds I have before this thing I'm ruminating about. I have to get out of it. Is that

Yeah. before I become complacent. Right. And so I have to I have to set this up. So I do this countdown. This final countdown.

Oh, sing it. Will do it. Let's see an illusion. I'll never do it. I'll never do it

because I don't want to I don't want to pay for it. They don't get the reference, which is great.

No, but I do. And I love you and you were fantastic on that show. You should have gotten an Emmy every year, Will. So, so, so you do so you so you so scared.

So, you do you do the you do the countdown and the first day it works. Yeah. I get out of bed. I'm like five, four. For the first time in six months, I was out of bed when the alarm rang.

What' you do? What was the first thing you knocked down? Did you put on Did you put on the Lululemons and you got out there and you just did a

No. No. I walked into walk. No. No. No motivation for that yet. I'm just like I'm low bar here. We're just talking like get out of bed. I literally walk into the kitchen and my poor husband's standing there in front of the fridge. Lost he lost all that [ __ ] money and he's down there and he's probably making an egg McMuffin.

Correct, [ __ ] And so, you know how that thing happens where you see somebody you love and you just want?

Every day for me. Every day. No, I'm kidding. I love you. I'm not kidding. No, no, no. The people that you love the most are the most annoying.

Sure. M. And so I just went 5 4 3 2 1 because I knew he was trying his best. It wasn't like he was trying to fail.

Yeah. And my anger wasn't helping. And so counting backwards interrupted that pattern of snapping and screaming and reacting and gave me this ability to be in charge of what I was doing instead of constantly letting my emotions dictate. See, this is what everybody gets wrong about motivation. Motivation's garbage. It's never there when you need it. You got to learn how to make yourself do things that you don't feel like doing. And if you ever did that, you'd have everything you've ever wanted.

And so you put I'm assuming you put one foot in front of the other, and I'm not asking for a Tik Tok of the day, but was there for for those out there that are having trouble making this crucial first step, um, what was the what really what what what was the tangible thing that you did first? And from that you built on that progress and exponentially put more and more um you know inertia down the road.

It's a great question. Everybody hates the answer. Mhm. Like literally changing your life isn't glamorous. It's grueling and it does not happen overnight. It happens over time. And I always say cuz people be like, "How did you do everything that you're doing?" Cuz that was 16 years ago. And so the person that everybody sees now and what I do out in the world is 16 years in the making. And I say that the what you see now is a result of one thing. I taught myself how to get out of bed on days when I didn't [ __ ] feel like it.

That's the secret. That's it. Because if you can force yourself out of bed when you don't feel like it because of the depression or the anxiety or the overwhelm or the hangover or whatever it may be

and the body feeds off that first progress right? Yes. Yeah. We'll be right back.

And now back to the show. Now, Mel, let me ask you this and and and and I like it. I like this this area a lot. And I like the way that you talk about it. I I like that your your passion for it and your excitement and I and I understand and appreciate the way that you were able to do that that first day and see a result and feel a change in your body and in your mind and in your spirit, etc. All those things connected. And then so you do it again. I imagine I'm I'm sort of skipping forward. You do it a bunch and you really start to see results and then you think to yourself, other people can benefit from this too if I can do it or eventually eventually you get to a point where you think that other people can benefit from the lessons that you learned the hard way etc. But you also have the benefit of this this momentum that you've got doing it. So there are other people go, "Well, yeah, it works

for Mel because she's getting she's getting feedback from her pushing this out to the world." I don't have I'm not getting that same feedback on a global level. Uh and I'm not getting that feedback. I'm just, you know, a person in Cleveland who's doing it and nobody's recognizing that I'm doing it. So yeah, it works for you cuz and and you're kicking ass doing it. You're at the top of the game. But if you're just Joemo, like if you're

But 16 years ago, she wasn't getting that right? Yeah. It was three years of using it in secret before I ever told anybody about it because let's face it, I didn't know why it worked.

Right. I'm $800,000 in debt, right? I am barely making the ends meet. What business do I have telling anybody anything? And so I used it and see,

by the way, was that an important part of it? Keeping it secret. In other words, holding your power and not bragging to the to your partner, hey, today I'm going to start working out. Like, I find that sometimes my my my stick tuitiveness is better if I don't share what my what my goals and my my my plans for progress are and I keep it inside and I just do it myself and I've only got myself to answer to. And then once I get some momentum going, then I then I share like, "Hey, by the way, I've been working out for a week, you know, or by the way, I haven't had sugar for a week."

Do you keep a lot of feelings inside though? I do. I do. I know. I know you do. I know.

It's going to burst. Um, but was that was that an important part? Did you did you was this was this a private sort of initial um uh stage?

No. Like I like I told Chris, my husband Chris, but I but literally it was self-preservation. I mean, we were in a freef fall for crying out loud. I we

What did Chris say? Was Chris like, "Okay, cool. As long as you're not bitching at me and screaming at me, I'll try anything. Like, if this keeps you calm off my ass that I I'm working as hard as I can, woman. Like, finally, you see it.

Oh, Chris. Now I Poor Chris. I know. [ __ ] Chris. Okay. Like, come on. He's a nice guy.

Your TED talk from 2011 was now has over 30 million views from 2011. And is this is this what it's most was that what it's mostly about is the 5-second rule.

No. Okay. So, here's the story. So, three years go by. I'm using 54321 54321 to get out of bed to network and get a job, to open up the bills, to just do the basic blocking and tackling that we all need to do because nobody's coming.

You can sit around and hope that somebody's going to come and fix this. They're not. And the sooner you recognize you got to stop waiting to feel ready and you've got to get to a point in your life where you're at doesn't work for you anymore. So, you're going to do something about it.

So, for three years, I'm just working at it. Chris is going back into the restaurant business, renegotiating leases, like working a 100 hours a week. I'm finding odd job after odd jobs so we can just get the bankruptcy off our back and keep ourselves afloat with three kids under the age of 10. Plus,

you're literally just looking to make a paycheck. You're you're not driving towards some northstar career-wise like I'm going to build a podcast and it's going to be a big success. No, you didn't didn't have any sort of um direction. Okay.

Absolutely not. And also, I think when you get to a point where you really screw up your own life, because nobody makes a vision board and is like, "Hey, let's put images of bankruptcy and divorce and alcoholism on it." On the

back and plus friends and family had invested in the restaurant business and so I can't exactly go around trashing and complaining and so we're just

you're looking to pay them back and get your head above water financially. So, we're in survival mode. And you're pretty incredible and resourceful when you're in survival mode. And so, a buddy calls me. We still have $800,000 in debt. We still have leans on the house 3 years later. We are still just making the ends meet. And a buddy calls me from college and says, "Hey, there's a person who is putting on an event in San Francisco that I know that's looking for somebody who's changed their job a lot and I thought about you." And I that's not really a compliment, but she said, I you know, they're offering two first class plane tickets and two nights at the St. Reges. All you got to do is talk about career change. Now, I had never given a speech on a stage in my life. I had taken a public high school speaking class, but I had been a lawyer, a public defender in Manhattan, and so I'd worked

in courtrooms, but I'd never given a speech. When you're that in debt, that sounds like a free vacation, right? And so I'm like, Chris, we're going to San Francisco. Mom, dad, come watch the show.

It sounds like a free vacation in any no matter situation to be honest. Exactly.

Well, I didn't really think through the part of 700 people in an auditorium. Right. Right. Yeah.

And so I get out on that stage and it happens to be one of the first ever TEDex conferences and they weren't where you get the balls for no stage fright and all that.

Oh, you're watching a 21 minute long panic attack. Like I want you to look close at that TED talk. I've got this neck rash that people get when they're drunk or they're nervous a minute in.

Oh, yeah. No, I used to get that ton. I am darting around the stage and this is not about the 5-second rule. It's about career change. And I get to minute 19 and I forget how to end the talk

and I look out and I'm like, "Oh, I know. I do this thing. I call it the 5-second rule. The moment you have an instinct to act, you got to move within 5 seconds or else your brain will kill your motivation. Thank you very much. Oh, by the way, here's my email if you have questions."

And I leave. Yeah. Now, you gave your email out publicly. Oh, I mean, I'm just a normal person trying to get a free vacation by giving a speech about something I don't know anything about. And so, right,

a year goes by. Did they pick up incidentals? Sorry. No, a year goes by. Seriously, this is now 2012. Um, a year goes by. I have a job. Chris is still like trying to make we still have leans on the house and TEDex decides to put it online. I don't know this. Another year goes by, 2013, I start getting emails at that email address.

Yeah. Wow. People start to write to me from around the world. Mel, I've used 54321 to lose 100 pounds. 54321 to get out of bed despite the depression. I use 54321 to stop myself from jumping over this ferry and find the courage to ask for help. And I was so blown away. This answers your question, Will, about like at one point did you start talking about it that while working a full-time job for several years, I would come home at night and pour a glass of wine and answer these emails from strangers

because I felt obligated to figure out why does this thing work? Right. Right. And so I started researching it and talking to people

and simultaneously building a following and a mailing list that you could then sort of transfer over into the podcast. started to not yet like 2012 if you we you can scroll back manually through Instagram. You have to do it manually. all it's it's just pictures of my kids and barbecues and you know I I didn't know normal people could make a living giving keynote speeches and so people started to ask me to speak in 2013 2014 and like you know I I went and spoke for free and then there was this moment in 2014 where a per or 2013 rather a person came up to me after speaking for free at a big women's conference and said hey did you get your check for this thing yet and I was like check

you got paid for this am I the only idiot here who's doing this for free. And that's what I'm like, I got to figure this out.

Do you think that when you were younger that that this was this kind of mo this kind of thinking was inside you the whole time when you were growing up? You just didn't know it.

That's what I wondered too. And like because I remember your mom used to say you said I read that she said fix it. Wait, fix it your fix it yourself and pull up your big girl panties and

figure it out and fix it yourself or something like that, right? Yep. I think so. You know, I come from like uh Midwestern farming stock and so when the chores need to get done, the chores need to get done. Like that's my mom grew up on a big farm. My dad grew up in a working-class family and so there's just sort of a pragmatism, right?

Uh to and and a focus on doing things instead of talking about things. Yeah. So So that was kind of in you then at the you know when you're

Yeah. And touching bottom often brings out the the best parts of ourselves. Um you know cuz cuz you Touching bottoms is has completely revolutionized my life.

Oh, touching your bottom or touching bottom? Sir, what was the question? Uh, no. I I do suspect that you you do seem to have that uh um that it's not a it doesn't feel like a leap. Now, of course, we're catching you uh after years of doing this and living this way and transforming your life, but I think that there is I suspect there was a kernel of that like Sean kind of what you were saying that there was a kernel of that in there. And whether it's your Midwestern roots or your blue coll I think also you're you're pretty sharp, you know, so

Well, yeah. You you say you're a public defender in in New York. I mean, so you're you're no ding-dong.

Yeah. Right. Uh yeah, I guess not. I mean, I've done some pretty ding-dong things.

No. being smart doesn't mean you're actually smart about how you live your life.

No, but you you know discipline. You went through law school. Like there's there's you know how to you know to ask yourself to really bring it if you need to. Yeah.

Right. And you and when you you had ADHD when you were a kid, but you didn't know that it was ADHD, correct? Yeah. But I think sometimes that's that's a superpower later on in life. Like I just saw this thing like on TikTok or something a long time ago about we talked about this the other day. I know I think it's the truth on

I haven't read that book yet. And it said something about like childhood trauma or childhood something sometimes in children create uh uh ADD as a coping mechanism. They don't they can't leave their house. They can't leave where they right cuz that's your shelter and your food and your family and whatever. But because of some trauma where you can't leave your brain's trying to constantly figure out how to problem solve and in doing so it develop you develop ADD or ADHD.

I think that was Gabbor Mate that talked about the connection before between Hang on let me finish. Gabbor Mate I think said that. Yeah. Go ahead. I had I had a I had a delicious mate the other day.

I had a Gamora I had a Gammora latte too. Last time I was in Naples. What do you think of that?

Listen, I will say this Mel there. Well, there to that ADHD thing. It sounds like from the little again that I know of it, but I know uh when it comes to people that I'm related to who have who've been diagnosed with having uh deficits in when it comes to executive function and I was going to say that earlier there there is that moment of and it is one of the symptoms of a particular type of ADHD where you

you know that you have to do it and you can't start it and that's an executive function uh uh deficiency.

Oh yeah, that's interesting. It can also to Sean's point, it can also be a trauma response that there's this freeze.

Well, Sean's point was so muddled. It was about Tik Tok and he was like something in someone.

I was tracking I was the highly intelligent here can track to what you're saying. I think I think like the demeaning him is a way that you deflected. Thank you.

You're welcome. Um no. Well, so to the point on ADHD is super interesting. um the majority of women today because women and men and boys and girls experience ADHD at the exact same levels, but women and girls go profoundly underdiagnosed because when it was discovered in the 1970s, they only study boys.

And when a boy has 88 Yes. And so when a boy had This is going to explain marriages. This is going to explain your sisters. like just buckle up because this is one of those things that every time I explain it, people go, "Holy [ __ ] that's me or that's my wife." Holy. And so here's here's the short backstory. So they only study boys. And when boys have ADHD, which is like a structural

thing that's not working in the switching mechanism of your brain, you can focus, you just have trouble directing it at times. Yeah.

And so boys are a little bit more fidgety and you kind of notice it because they're fidgety. They interrupt. They have trouble directing their focus. Girls have the opposite symptoms. They tend to daydream. They get quieter and they get harder on themselves.

Now, here's what gets interesting and really life-changing for people to learn. If you have undiagnosed ADHD or dyslexia or executive functioning, what happens as the primary symptom is you develop anxiety because you are sitting in a classroom or in a setting where you're being asked to do things all day long that your brain can't structurally do right now. And so anxiety develops. So there's a huge generation of women, they call us the lost generation of women that were diagnosed with anxiety in our high school and our college years and then medicated with something to quell the anxiety, but the underlying issue was always undiagnosed ADHD.

Well, well, it's funny you say that, Mel. So I I I I had a conversation with my own dad because I was talking there was somebody in my family who who encountered this and this is within the last um 3 months and I said you know when I was a teenager uh and when I was you know a young teenager especially adolescent uh in the early 80s um I would get tested a bunch and they say oh he's he's functioning very well we don't understand why he's not doing his work and I was kind of labeled a bad kid

and I said dad you know and this is something a conversation I had my dad at almost I was almost 55 at at the time. I'm now 55. My dad's 86. And and I said, I now recognize in hearing what this doctor said this behavior in myself and I and I feel like and of course, you know, I you what ends up happening is you either you either get prescribed stuff I'm talking for for a boy and I can't speak but but uh or you self-medicate.

Yes. Um and that is one of the you know to to to try to quell the symptoms. Is there is there something one can do for uh attention deficit uh that that that is that is different than medication? I mean, is there something is there is there is there therapy that one can go?

There's all kind It's a great question. There's all kinds of things you can do. And I think kind of just understanding the way that your brain works or learns helps you do all kinds of things whether there's systems for organization. There's certain types of interventions that they do with kids that really help develop and train. Like our our son ended up and and this is how I found out at the age of 47 that I was both dyslexic and had ADHD.

Wow. The same way that most women do. Our kids start struggling in school like you did, Will. They get labeled a behavioral issue. You then go through all of the neurosych evaluation testing and then you sit back and go, "Huh,

yeah, that seems a lot like me." And I literally turned to my pediatrician and said, you know, Mark, why didn't like why do do you think I have ADHD? And he's like, "Mel, of course you have ADHD. You're the most ADHD parent I know." I'm like, "Why didn't you tell me?" He's like, "I'm not your doctor."

Is it something that you inherit from your parents? They say it it can be. They actually say that it it can be impacted by what's going on when you're in uterero and the stress levels of the parent or the mom and whether or not she's under a lot of stress because it relates to your fight orflight nervous system as well. And it impacts the way it was explained to me cuz again like everything in life it's like bad things need to happen and then I realize okay I'm [ __ ] I got to figure this out. and then I turn it into a research project and then I try to explain what I've learned in the simplest ways. So anybody else if I can save them the headache and the heartache that I went through for 30 40 years not knowing what I was really dealing with just like you will not knowing what you're dealing with and self-medicating and acting out and feeling you know hyperritical of yourself. if I can just

know what this thing is that I'm not deficient. I just have a brain that works differently. And with ADHD, I would go to this, you know, you know, when you are in in college or high school and you're like, "All right, I got to study." And you know, you can go to the library where you're going to see your friends or you go to the stacks. And so I would go to the stacks and I'm like, "Okay, I got to study." And I would sit down and I'd be ready to like lock in. And honest to God, I could not for the life of me, just like what you were talking about, Will, I couldn't make myself do it. And worse, it's like I could hear the mouse pooping in the corner.

I could hear my stomach. And so that mechanism that like an orchestra conductor, think about all the input of sound like an orchestra warming up.

Mhm. ADHD, there's this conductor in your brain that's like tap tap tap tap tap. Okay, let's bring it all down. Now, let's lift up the sound of the strings only. M

if you don't have that little conductor in your brain brain, the whole world sounds like an orchestra warming up

and you can't both direct your attention in certain instances and you can't silence other input and that's kind of what's happening.

That's fascinating. Yeah, it's super fascinating. But there's lots you can do and it don't have to do medication

and Right. So to to that point, half of the fix is is actually getting the diagnosis, knowing what you have. Then it's your choice whether you want to medicate or not, but at least you know what it is and you can start to uh search for a remedy that might be different than medication or at least just start adjusting your behavior and seeing trying some different stuff on. Yeah.

Yeah. And having some grace for yourself. Like it drives my husband crazy that the faucet's running or that my my sink I don't know what your guys' bathrooms look like, but my husband's sink looks like uh the sink at a Zen hotel.

Mhm. Mine looks like you tipped over a Walgreens aisle on top of it still. Oh my god. Yes. Like Yeah.

Wait, so wait, is the cap off the toothpaste for on you all the time? Yeah. And you have dusty cosmetics all over the place. Come on. Let's Let's get it together. Okay.

But you know you know you know Mel, I learned all these like I I learned I learned all these tricks along the way that I would do. And I was saying to uh like telling somebody before that that like

I have like a thing about like keys and and my wallet and I don't lose. So I have like a dish and everywhere I live and everywhere I go everything goes back in the same spot. My bathroom is very clean. And I have taught myself all these things to do uh these little routines that help keep me uh

create order. Yeah. That create order. That's awesome. Cuz the mind is like this. So the order in the environment helps your mind settle.

I love that. And and I have a friend I have one friend. He deals with anxiety in this way and he ends up putting he has a a bottle of Xanax and he puts it in the elevator just in case it breaks down.

Well, you should actually send him this episode. Keep a bottle in there. Will you send him this episode? you should send him this episode because the single biggest coping mechanism for anxiety is avoidance. And the more you avoid something, the bigger the anxiety gets because when you avoid something, you're telling yourself, I can't handle this.

That's what you're doing. So 5 4 3 2 1 helps. It's Sean. It's Sean. And we will be right back.

And now back to the show. tell us how is let them a um something that uh that is a cousin to what we're talking about uh or or or directly a part of it.

It's an again great question. So you know 54321 helps you push through all the resistance, the fear, the hesitation, the anxiety to take the action that changes everything. But yeah,

I always wonder why the hell are we so resistant anyway? Well, it turns out for me anyway and seems like for millions and millions of people that this book has resonated with,

the main source of resistance and fear in our lives is our fear of other people. And the let them theory was something that I discovered and it has fundamentally changed my life. Like I feel like I have lived my life backwards for the first 54 years because I have been consumed by making sure other people are happy by worrying about their opinions, navigating my day-to-day life based on people's expectations, their moods, what you know they they want versus truly learning that there's a different way to live. And the let them theory is ultimately a modern version of stoicism, Buddhism, the serenity prayer.

It's a book about control and power. What you have control over and what you do not. And two simple words, let them will free you from the exhausting cycle of trying to manage people's thoughts, their opinions, manage their expectations. There's a better way to live. Let them.

Let them. What's the basic tenant? What's the basic tenant of it? All right. Is it Is it let them have their judgment? Let them be upset. Let it's none of my business. Let me just take care of number one.

Well, here's Yes. And so there's a second part. Let me But the basic tenant will is that in life there are only three things you can control. Only three. You can control what you think about. You can control what you do or don't do. And you can control what you do in response to your emotions.

Right? And any psychologist will tell you when you focus on things you can't control. And the number one thing in life that you will never be able to control is other people. What they say, what they do, what they believe, whether or not they change, whether or not they're motivated, whether or not they're anxious, whether or not they get sober.

You can't control other people. And yet we exhaust ourselves and waste so much time and energy.

Yeah. allowing meaningless [ __ ] and other people's stuff to drain your most precious resources.

Well, Mel, and and and part of that, too, is is you also can't control. I can't there's not enough time for me to go around and and everybody I meet and tell them how they need to treat me as well. That's kind of part of it for me.

That's And I was talking about this this morning with some people. I was saying I we've talked about it on here before. Part of that also for me is I and it's people and it's things. I can't be at the effect of circumstances because I got to make my own weather in in a sense because if I'm at the effect of circumstances, man, that's tough sledding. That is really tough sledding. Do you know what I mean? So, are you talking about like if you're in your car and traffic builds up and for most people they're going to grip the wheel and get pissed off about the traffic and the truth is you can't actually control the traffic.

Yeah. And so, why would you allow something like that to drain your time and energy?

100%. And I'll take I'll take it a step further and this is sometimes where I lose people. I'll say when when there's a lot of traffic and you've you know you've come a long way and then people are trying to get in and you're like and most people are like [ __ ] you. I've been waiting for a mile. I'm not going to let you in. And if you let people in, I I guarantee you traffic will open up for you. It works for me every time. The more I give it away, the more I go, "Go ahead. Go ahead." It's It works every time. It's the craziest thing. I don't know what

it's not just the traffic opens up. Something opens up inside you. you re get to love and then you get that works with love too.

It does but it's something else first because most of us are really selfish and when we say let them let them in traffic's either going to open up or it's not and I do believe what you believe that it does start to shift things but what it shifts first is you recognize that your energy and your time is worth something. And when you start to value and protect your time and energy from people's expectations, people's moods, people's rude behavior, traffic, long lines, you value and have more time and energy. You become more in control and more empowered as a human being. And then everything starts to change because you're not at the effect of all the [ __ ] going on outside of you.

That's right. And Yes. And if I'm stingy with my attention, with my love, with my with my kindness, I will get stinginess from the universe in return. That is a lock for me anyway. And I think

that feeling of of feeling unloved is generally because I'm not pushing out enough

and the and anyway, sorry. No, no, go ahead. Well, I didn't mean to cut you. Sean, what was your question?

No, Sean, I went to any theater stories. Let him, Sean. Let him. Yeah. Go ahead. What was your question, Sean?

She did give you a good one up there on stage. Didn't know how to end it. She gave you a great theater story.

What do you do, Mel into as far as let them go in this world that we live in about social media and comments and people coming at you with what's that?

Nothing. What did you let him say? No, just sounds great. Yeah. No, I was going to say with people like for you, I'm sure you get all kinds of comments and I know people other people they get, you know, comments that they can't they they thrive on the positive comments and they, you know, lose themselves in the negative ones. So, what about let them for those? And for yourself, by the way, for yourself.

Well, you can never control what somebody else thinks, Sean. So, let them think what they're going to think. Let them not like you.

Okay, fine. I just wanted to put that out there. No, I mean that because it's what's destroying, you know, a lot of society today. you know, people actually put weight into what people say about them and to them on social media. And

it goes even more than that, Sean, because like let's just let's just unpack this. So, let's say that you are pulling out Instagram and you're about to post something and you pick a photo and you're like, "Oh, not that photo." And then uh and then you put the filter on it and then you go to write the caption and then you put the emoji and then you backspace and you're thinking, "Is this too much? Is this a for whom?" you before you even express yourself, you're already jumping into the brain of another human being and trying to anticipate what they're going to think.

And here's the truth. There is nothing you can post that will actually guarantee somebody has a positive or negative thought because you can't control it.

Yeah. And even if you could, you can't get them. Yeah. Just let them do what they're going to do. Let them unfollow me. Let them misunderstand. Let them be disappointed. Let them Let them

Where'd they go, Mel? Here come the dickpicks. Yeah. Here. Let them. Let them. I don't have to look at Let me decide what I'm going to look at.

There we go. I'll take them. Let them. The poor interns that are now in the DMs. Thanks, Rick.

That's so funny. Um, okay. So, wait. I got some I got some good stuff here. Wait. Uh oh. What's the most shocking coaching request you've ever received? Because you do private coaching, too, right?

Oh, I don't do any private coaching. Oh, I thought you did. I thought you did one-on-one coaching with like wealthy people.

No, no, no, no. Don't have time for that anymore. But the most shocking request, um,

well, I got a request. None of them are shocking. Yeah, they really aren't because when it's not you, it's easy to give people advice because you're not emotionally attached to what's happening. And if you listen closely to anybody, you can really tell what they're grappling with. And what most of us are grappling with is either the fear of disappointing somebody.

Yeah. or the fear that if you do this thing somehow people are going to judge you and you're going to end up alone,

right? And so everything comes back down to this fear of what other people are going to think about you

and how their actions dictate your value. And here's the secret. The secret is you have to like you. And you will only like yourself if you can learn how to let other people be unhappy and learn how to let people be disappointed and let people have their opinions and let me really be clear about the decisions that make me proud of myself because when you're proud of yourself, you kind of don't give a [ __ ] what other people,

right? Okay. So, but so, so for a lot of people that that are fans of yours or people that read your books or whatever, they you know, you come off as this fearless, you have fearlessness and confidence and so you must have some self-doubt about something. Like

every day I I was literally sitting here going, "Am I going to have a moment where I kind of have an accident my pants uh like Jason did in the green room, you know, in Colar? Oh, that's a

because I'm so nervous about meeting these guys. Like, I literally Yeah. Well, actually, you and I are going to be on Jimmy Fallon on the 17th of September, and I'm I'm sorting through your garbage to see if you've hidden underwear in there under a Diet Coke can. Get the DC out of the way.

I can't wait to meet you. Well, I was going to ask the same question like have are you enjoying that your your your state of confidence and and sort of leaning forward into things actually creates the privilege of new anxieties as you reach and hurdle forward. You're now seeing a whole new level of complexities and challenges that are a result of you leaning forward and breaking

in the open too. like to a broader audience. Um, you know, I am really grateful that all this happened later in life.

Yeah. Yeah. I really am because, you know, when you go through an experience where you literally almost lose everything that matters to you, whether that's your marriage or your family or your home or your sanity

or in your case, all of it. Right. Yeah. All of it. Like all of it. And being a parent, I mean, that must have ratcheted it up too. worried about the welfare of your kids on my go. I can't imagine.

Our kids would come downstairs at night after Chris and I had been fighting and screaming at each other and they would find us collapsed in chairs like hung over.

Yeah. That's how they like you know you're not winning at the parenting game when your kids wake you up so they can catch the bus.

Yeah. Like it was not good. And so all of this that you see now, whether it's the massive scale of the podcast or the number one book, I mean, this book is on track to be the most successful non-fiction book ever launched. 6 million copies in six months is what this book is.

And part of it is because I'm just reminding you guys of what you know to be true.

Like stoicism is not a new idea. Victor Frankle, man's search for meaning. what's happening out there is not where the the power is. Your power is in your response to it. But these are all intellectual ideas. What I love about saying let them and then let me, which is let them is where you release the control over something you can't control. And let me is where you take the power back and focus on what you can control, which is your response to what's happening.

This is a tool, but it reminds people of what they know to be true since the beginning of time. And what I'm grateful for is that having almost lost everything I care about and having just clawed my way out of debt and built this just brick by brick over the last 16 years, I have stayed laser focus on what really matters. I live in the middle of nowhere in Vermont. I have no interest in the bigness aspect of all of it because you guys know the second something hits, everybody thinks they know what you should do next. everybody sees something bigger for you. I would like more time with my husband and my kids.

I would like to, you know, enjoy some of this success, meaning I'm not actually working all the time. And so for me, um, I think the anxiety or the issues that I face is more around just saying no and letting people have their expectations about what the podcast should become or what I should do next and staying laser focused not on up here, but on what's right in front of me right now.

Because if you lose sight of what got you to where you are, you basically blow up everything you created. And so I am staying very focused on waking up every day and just making decisions that make me feel proud of myself and doing the best that I can and giving people a little bit of grace and focusing on what I can control and what I can't and then the rest will take care of itself, you know.

I love that. What's the What's the single thing that people think will make them happy but won't? Um,

in your opinion, I think the single thing that uh people think will make them happy that doesn't is achieving the thing.

There's so much research that, you know, when you get the million dollars, you're going to be happy. When you win the race, when you get the person,

it's the pursuit of it. It's it's h Everybody needs something that gets you out of bed. Everybody needs something that you're excited about. Whether it's video games or it's bird watching or it's volunteering, if you don't have something that you're pursuing that's bigger than you,

then you're always going to be stuck in that sort of survival autopilot. Same old same old moment.

Yeah. You got to give yourself an opportunity to get proud of yourself as you said earlier and and that's usually a pursuit of something.

Yeah. And I but I I I think that the for me I I I I would imagine I would suggest that part of that is is is a spiritual experience. very much so.

And and I think that that is that's the truth. It's funny. I was watching um um sort of

Love Island. Yeah. Have you seen it? It's the episode you're on, Jason. Yeah. It's on uh No, it was it was the sort of a the few days leading up to the the the Open, the British Open, the Gulf, and and Scotty Sheffller gave this press conference that that I found to be fascinating. And he's being asked all these questions. He's world number one. He has been dominating golf for the last couple years. and he gave this answer and the room was silent and he sort of said part of me thinks I spent all my life to win these tournaments to win this tournament the Byron Nelson in his home in my hometown to have a few minutes of like yeah and then I realized what's the point and he went and he went on from there and I found it absolutely fascinating and I go here is a guy who is at this crossroads and he's having this deep and almost spiritual experience where He's realizing that there's got to be I he he's he's looking

for perspective. He's gaining it and he's looking for more. You know, I our buddy Rob Meter always jokes. Perspective is a really hard thing to get if you don't have it.

And and hearing him that hearing this guy who's at the top, I mean the the millions of dollars

saying like now what? Well, yeah. And he's and he's saying and why and he actually said a few times JB he said what's the point? And it was and honestly it was it was chilling almost listening to him and he wasn't poor me and he was very happy for all the success and he was he felt he was very grateful rather uh and yet at the same time I could see that he was struggling with that idea and there's something really really fascinating about that to me.

Mel this has been a blast. You are brilliant. We've taken way too much time. Brilliant.

Look at you have a whole studio behind you and you you stopped to talk to us about it.

Yeah. Above my garage in Vermont. That's this one. We got to have you boys come to Boston. Although you don't go anywhere. We got you guys do stuff. If you ever want, you have an open invitation to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Thank you. I mean it. I'd love to have you on. Pick you apart on live camera. This would be amazing. No, I just didn't.

No, I do. I'm really looking forward to meeting you uh um on the 17th. That'll be that'll be awesome.

I'm looking forward to meeting you, too. Thank you, Sean, for selecting me. I I literally was so moved and I can tell you the cheeseball thing now because I hate it when people come on and gush and fan. But I I you caused so many problems in my marriage, you guys, because when I first started listening to you, like everybody did, I would come home because I was so jealous of your friend group.

And I thought, why are my friends boring? And I would come home to my husband like, you need to start picking on me. We're not interesting enough. And it turns out picking on your spouse is not a great thing for a man. You got to let them be who they are, right?

It's our love language. I love that. And thank you for allowing us as your listeners to feel like we are part of this friend group because to have a friend group

where you can really see that you guys love each other deeply and still jab at each other it is a very rare thing and it's a gift to experience it uh in our lives to listen to you guys that way. So thank you for welcoming us in. Well, thank you for saying that and truly truly thank thank you for coming on this show. So illuminate listening to you. I know. I wish this is two hours. I I feel like I've learned a lot.

I know, right? I love it. Well, we can maybe maybe we can open up those private sessions, you know.

I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to DM I'm going to DM you for a one-on-one. Uh

just a dickpick. Okay. Just a dickpick. You'll know who it's from. That's for sure. Thanks, Mel. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Yeah. Yeah. See you later. Bye. All right. Bye. What a pleasure. That was awesome. Literally was just talking about her the other day. That's so

That's amazing. Yeah. She's been on my list for like, you know, a couple years now. But she um you know, six over six million copies of that book. Let them I mean, it's amazing. It's also amazing when people like her or for, you know, another example would be Oprah or these people who lend their brains, you know, to the masses for what they've learned or discovered and they pass it on to other people, hopefully hoping they can help other people, too. I love that kind of stuff. Kind of like if I can do it, you can do it kind of thing.

Yeah. What a gift um that she's as a result of her own personal circumstance, you know, and touching bottom as she was saying, you know, and and and developing these these coping skills out of out of necessity and desperation that she found herself with a vehicle to share all of that knowledge and enlightenment with with so many millions of people and uh obviously has helped um and uh so so so many folks. What a what a great use of your life, right? We're all going to look back when we're when we're old and gray and did we use our years right and uh what a great success.

And you listen to her talk and it's kind of like, oh yeah, well that makes how did I not know that? It's like all common sense basically.

Yeah. You know, but we just need to be told. Yeah. I mean, I think we all have some coping skills in us that but maybe they're just sort of dormant until you hear somebody put them to words and you go, "Oh, somebody just articulated what I kind of feel in me, but didn't know if I was allowed to kind of use it." And somebody kind of puts it into words and puts it in somewhat of a scientific form. You're like, "Oh, great. Yeah, let's use that."

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, guys, can I share some Oh, boy. Can I share some British words I've learned while I'm here?

Uh, sure. I guess so. I mean, how much of a choice do we have? Not much. It's going to take 30 seconds.

Can we have a dad joke before before you get into your buy section? Sure. You want one?

Yeah. Oh, I like it. We've got a book listener. Just don't don't rifle through. Just stick your finger on it. Yeah.

Here. A good elevator joke works on so many levels. Great. Love it. Great. Love it. Love it. Thank you. And a bisection now.

And now it's pre Speaking of that, I've just These are the three things I've heard. You take the lift. I'll take the apples and pears.

I didn't know apples and pears meant stairs. Yeah, that's that's cochnney, right?

It's cochney. Yeah. The way they do that. I don't know. And then if somebody calls you, give me a call on my dog and bone. I got a call on my dog and bone. I didn't know phone was dog and bone.

You saying five words instead of one. I don't really get it, but go ahead. That's right. And then the last one, somebody brought in, this is this is a true story. Somebody brought in bagels the other day for at rehearsal for Good Night Oscar at the

I can't wait. Look who's back. Just when you thought he went away, he's back. Look who's back. Um anyway, so he brought these bagels from a store and this is the truth.

And the name, the way they spelled bagel was B E I G E L. And that's the that was the brand name.

Huh. And how would you pronounce how would you I think it's I think I pronounce it.

Would you like Would you like a bagel? Would you like smart less? Smart less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Bennett Barbco, Michael Grant, Terry, and Rob Armjarf. Smart less.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Mel Robbins | SmartLess"?

In order: 0:00 Buckingham Palace, Hollywood Bowl, Let Them, London; 10:00 Let Them, Anxiety, SmartLess, The 5 Second Rule; 20:00 San Francisco, The 5 Second Rule, Anxiety; 30:00 Anxiety, Dyslexia, Executive Function, Instagram; 40:00 Let Them, Anxiety, Let Them Theory, Buddhism; 50:00 Let Them, Vermont, Anxiety, British Open; 1:00:00 Let Them, SmartLess.

What is mentioned in this SmartLess episode?

35 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Let Them, Anxiety, SmartLess, The 5 Second Rule, San Francisco, Instagram. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Mel Robbins | SmartLess"?

The episode runs 1 h 5 min; the transcript is about 13,361 words in 295 timestamped sections.

More from SmartLess

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 18, 2025.