Transcript

Noah Hawley | SmartLess

From SmartLess · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 4 min · 13,544 words · 285 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Noah Hawley | SmartLess", an episode of SmartLess published December 1, 2025 (1 h 4 min, about 13,544 words). It mentions 57 people, works and ideas, including Noah Hawley, Alien Earth, Alien: Earth, Fargo, Coen brothers.

What this episode is about

Noah Hawley, a prominent figure in the entertainment industry, discusses his experiences with public appearances and nerves while promoting his upcoming movie, set to be released on December 19th. The conversation also touches on personal style and the dynamics of being a guest on talk shows.

Key takeaways

  • Espresso beats sluggishness—cue essential 3 p.m. brew ritual or snooze away like a pro.
  • From Zoom doom to room boom: In-person meetings trump screen fatigue every time.
  • Cue the fly swats and protein shakes—mid-afternoon debates blur the line between energy and ennui.
  • New Yorkers thrive on urban adrenaline; coffee substitutes just won't keep pace.
  • Star-studded with writer gems: Forget A-listers, tune in for the showrunners with Rolodexes of hits.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Alien Earth, Alien: Earth, Bananagrams, Legion
  2. – 20:00: Alien Earth, Alien: Earth, Prometheus, Ian Holm
  3. – 30:00: Alien Earth, Alien: Earth, A Conspiracy of Tall Men, Alien (franchise)
  4. – 40:00: Martin Freeman, Adam Bernstein, Breaking Bad, Fargo, North Dakota
  5. – 50:00: Lucy in the Sky, Alien Earth, Alien: Earth, Before the Fall
  6. – 1:00:00: Star Trek, Alien Earth, Alien: Earth, Chris Pine

Notable quotes from "Noah Hawley | SmartLess"

  • My favorite line I had in the movie is, Does anybody want to play bananagrams?
    about Bananagrams · at
  • Entertainment with shows like Bones, Legion, and the massive hit Fargo and the new and spectacular Alien Earth.
    about Alien Earth · at
  • Yes, it's a couple of years before and after the Prometheus and the Covenant, right in between.
    about Prometheus · at
  • Yeah, Adam Bernstein came in and he had shot a bunch of Breaking Bad and we had a good collaboration.
    about Breaking Bad · at
  • Right? there's a scene in the emergency room where Martin Freeman meets Billy Bob for the first time and I'm in this master shot sort of slowly pushing in and you know Billy Bob gets up and moves over next to him and that's.
    about Martin Freeman · at
  • Yeah. What about [clears throat] So, you wrote and directed a film as well, Lucy in the Sky with Natalie Portman. was the film experience anything different than basically just…
    about Lucy in the Sky · at
  • Discuss with Sean what to the extent you're comfortable. We can cut it if you're not. what happened with Star Trek and will it will your participation with Star Trek be coming at?
    about Star Trek · at
  • I sold him this original idea. It wasn't Chris Pine. And it wasn't anything. I wrote it. They said, We love it. Let's prep it. We were, we were I was going to move to Australia. We were booking stages, whatever. And then,.
    about Chris Pine · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Noah Hawley — Person · 12 mentions
  • John Hamm — Person · 4 mentions
  • Martin Freeman — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Chris Pine — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Dan Trachtenberg — Person · 2 mentions
  • Jeremy Renner — Person · 2 mentions
  • Ian Holm — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Communication room and the computer is telling her that the crew is expendable and she leans back and Ian Holm is there and you realize he's an android, right?
  • Adam Bernstein — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, Adam Bernstein came in and he had shot a bunch of Breaking Bad and we had a good collaboration.
  • Vince Gilligan — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Okay, I like that. We're doing that. Now what? Right? I've heard these stories about Vince Gilligan where he's That's good. Let's spend two weeks seeing if we can top it.
  • Natalie Portman — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. What about [clears throat] So, you wrote and directed a film as well, Lucy in the Sky with Natalie Portman. was the film experience anything different than basically just…
  • John Henry Butterworth — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And I thought that was really interesting. And so I signed on and I developed it with John Henry Butterworth. and then you know but it's in the end I feel like if I had the…
  • Jeff Russo — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Lot you know there were a lot of covers and then I thought well why don't I do one and so Jeff Russo the composer and I recorded the Go to Sleep Your Little Baby from O Brother and then when I made Legion which was a.
  • David Thewlis — Person · 1 mention
  • Ewan McGregor — Person · 1 mention
  • Frances McDormand — Person · 1 mention
  • Hart Hanson — Person · 1 mention
  • Jeff Tweedy — Person · 1 mention
  • Jim Gianopulos — Person · 1 mention
  • José Feliciano — Person · 1 mention
  • Joseph Heller — Person · 1 mention
  • Khan Noonien Singh — Person · 1 mention
  • Stephen Hopkins — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Alien Earth — Book · 10 mentions · first at
  • Star Trek — Book · 4 mentions · first at
  • Lucy in the Sky — Book · 3 mentions · first at
  • Legion — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    All together while bringing us top entertainment with shows like Bones, Legion, and the massive hit Fargo and the new and spectacular Alien Earth.
  • Breaking Bad — Book · 2 mentions · first at
  • Catch-22 — Book · 1 mention · first at
    High school, there was an assignment. We were reading the book Catch 22, right? And very specific voice in that book, comedic, satirical, and there was an assignment which is…
  • A Conspiracy of Tall Men — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Genre, as character pieces, etc. So, I don't know. Oh, the first novel I published was called A Conspiracy of Tall Men, and it was about a professor of conspiracy theories…
  • The Unusuals — Book · 1 mention · first at
    So, you're a writer producer on that. and then you start to create your own shows. So, you start The Unusuals in my generation were those two of the first. Yeah.
  • Before the Fall — Book · 1 mention · first at
    There, there's scripts that I wrote that I love and, I wrote this novel before the fall and, Sony owned it and I adapted. I think it's great, but it's expensive, right? It's like a, $70 million drama thriller and they.
  • Stripes — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Some guitars and then I was thinking, no, maybe I'll talk about how I was watching TV last night and Stripes was on and I thought we don't have that kind of Bill Murray…
  • Go to Sleep You Little Baby — Book · 1 mention
  • O Brother, Where Art Thou — Book · 1 mention
  • Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan — Book · 1 mention
  • The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • Alien: Earth — Company · 10 mentions · first at
    Entertainment with shows like Bones, Legion, and the massive hit Fargo and the new and spectacular Alien Earth.
  • Fargo — Company · 9 mentions
  • Coen brothers — Company · 6 mentions
  • Alien — Company · 4 mentions
  • Fargo (film) — Company · 3 mentions
  • Legion — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    All together while bringing us top entertainment with shows like Bones, Legion, and the massive hit Fargo and the new and spectacular Alien Earth.
  • Prometheus — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • Bones — Company · 2 mentions
  • Prey — Company · 2 mentions
  • Predator: Badlands — Company · 1 mention · first at
    He says, It feels like with your show with the upcoming release of the movie Predator Badlands, which features a character from the Alien universe, that both the Alien…
  • Legal Aid Society — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Star but you know to make ends meet I took a job working as a parallegal for the legal aid society in New York City in family courts. So these are the lawyers who represent children in abuse and neglect cases to termination.
  • The Responder — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Have you seen a show The Responder that he did?
  • The In-Laws — Company · 1 mention · first at
    9-year-old's birthday party where my parents were like yeah you're not going to that. And so we went to see the in-laws instead right with Alan Arin and Peter Fox. And I was…
  • The Unusuals — Company · 1 mention · first at
    So, you're a writer producer on that. and then you start to create your own shows. So, you start The Unusuals in my generation were those two of the first. Yeah.
  • Alien: Covenant — Company · 1 mention
  • Weta — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

Concepts & topics

  • Alien (franchise) — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Movie Predator Badlands, which features a character from the Alien universe, that both the Alien franchise and the Predator franchise are finally being codified in the same…
  • Predator (franchise) — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    A character from the Alien universe, that both the Alien franchise and the Predator franchise are finally being codified in the same universe. Do you see the world of Predator…
  • xenomorph — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    This moment where Richard Morani was running away from the xenomorph and she was hiding and she was pressed against a wall and we could see down the hallway and the xenomorph came out and I thought, well, I want to do a push in here, but.

Places & events

  • Fargo, North Dakota — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Fargo, though. Yes. No, it all needs to not even Fargo, North Dakota. Yes.

Full transcript with timestamps

Hey, I'm Sean. And I'm Will. And I'm Jason. Hey, Will. DO YOU LIKE GOLF? OH, I LOVE GOLF. LET'S TALK ABOUT GOLF. AH, I HIT A FORD. I hit it out of the park today on my niner. Well, that's awesome. That's better than I You guys, it's time to talk. Do we have to do A SMARTLESS EPISODE? AH, SEAN, SHUT THE [ __ ] UP. AH, YEAH. SHUT. What do you know? H welcome to smart list.

Smartless smart glass. Shnie, are those glasses new? Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, they're not they're not bad. I mean,

let's go higher. Higher. Well, do you not like them? Seriously, I just put them on like 5 minutes ago.

Lean closer to your camera. Do you like them? Oh, not not that close. Yeah. No, they're good.

What do you think? Honestly, you look great in everything. You know, I was noticing you on Kimmel last night.

Me, too. You look great on I was thinking the same thing. All right. You're working with a new stylist or something? I am actually.

Are you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I can't trust myself like that.

Shnie, you look really good. Thanks, you guys. That's awesome. You did it for real. It's true.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I um it's it's a and you're a great guest building a boat.

You're a very good guest. You are a great guest. You know, I don't know how you guys feel about talk shows and stuff like I get so nervous. I um

I talk fast. Well, that's that's You know what's bad? A guest that talks slow and isn't nervous.

Yeah. So, wait, Will, are are you still in New York? I am. Yeah. Wow. And is still press for the movie?

Still doing press for the movie. Yeah. Still like just kind of getting going really. And um

yeah. Yeah. Busy busy. Yeah, cuz it comes out. It does it. Well, I don't know when this episode

December 19th is when the movie December 19th. Yeah. Yeah. Is this thing on? I can't wait for everybody to see you in it. It's so exciting.

And what about you? You're in it, too, Mr. Sean. You're in it, too. Sure. Sure.

Shnie was doing press for it last night. My favorite line I had in the movie is, "Does anybody want to play bananagrams?"

Yeah. Yeah. That's it. What what I loved about it was your line with the way you read it was as if you had said that a million times.

Yeah. By the way, totally. I know. You know, we don't often do these records here in the mid afternoon. Here it is 3 p.m. here on the uh on the West Coast, 6 p.m. there in the East here.

And um you know, listen, I think the audience is aware that the three of us are not in our 20s. Okay. What

um Well, I just what I want to say is I get a little tie tie right now. This is not an ideal time for us to be doing it.

Well, hey, listen. Save it. Okay, nappy poo. Um, how do you guys get through the late afternoon? Okay, Sean, I've already explained your strategy. Will, how do you do it?

You know, I just uh I just do stuff, you know, whatever. And [snorts] uh Schnitzy Laroo, do you or do you or do you guys go to like an espresso at a certain time every day?

I do. I do. I do. Now, what are you waving at? There's a nad in there. There's a fly in here at Doc on it.

Like a old Gramp like the up the guy from apart. He's an old man. He he's he's he's grumbling about the time he's waving at a fly.

I've had a real high protein shake with spiruline and [clears throat] everything in it. I should be vibrating right now. But no, I'm supplementing it with the iced green tea and I'm still

sluggish. But if I don't if I don't have anything going on, I'll feel sluggish about this time and I will uh listen to my body and I'll lay down for sure.

Wait a second. There's an if there what how often you have [ __ ] going on at 3:00 in the afternoon.

But I mean like if if I keep if I keep if I'm if I'm busy enough, I'll keep it'll keep me awake. You know what I mean? Like if I have a meeting or whatever.

I'm coming off of four consecutive Zooms right into this thing. So I've been I've been up and at it. Did you work out? I

I did work out. That's the That's my problem. It's not the problem. It's the Zooms. They suck. They suck the energy out. Staring at the screen for those meetings. I'm telling you, it's

in person meetings. We should all get back to the office, right, Will? Yeah, absolutely. We have

You hear that, America? Well, you know what? You know what's funny? I I will say um that because I have been on the East Coast more this this fall uh and summer is because being in the city, I feel like kind of just more energized in general.

Yeah. Well, that's New York City. That never sleeps. Never sleeps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

it's got a heartbeat. It really does have a heartbeat. Do you have a t-shirt that says iHeartNY?

It's a thong. Um, that doubles into a t-shirt. Yeah. Go ahead, Jason. Do you have something?

Today, we got a big brain. Okay. He's not one of your fancy dancy celebs that are going to clue you into the life of the rich and famous. Okay. Uh, no. Sean will this today we've got someone who's given you some of the best television available over the last 20 years. This is a writer, producer, director, and often all three on the projects that he gives us, giving us the kind of specific and singular experience that we look for on television nowadays. He's got the nominations, the awards. He's got the education, the credentials.

He's also got the looks, the taste, the kids, the wife, the winded his back, and he's going to tell us how he keeps it all together while bringing us top entertainment with shows like Bones, Legion, and the massive hit Fargo and the new and spectacular Alien Earth. Folks, Noah Holly,

bring it out here, Noah. Take it easy, Sean. Don't attack him just yet. This is exciting for me.

Good afternoon, Noah. Good afternoon. I'm not nervous, and I'm going to speak very slowly.

Good. Good. Good. Okay. Now, you're right in the middle of the country there, aren't you? Aren't you in Texas?

I am. I'm in Austin, Texas. Yes. Mhm. So, you're I married a seventh generation Texan. I didn't read the fine print. So,

you said we're going back to the motherland. Yeah, it's good. But I'm happy. I like it. It's my kind of place.

You're not missing where where did you come? Where where where did you move from?

Well, I'm a New York City kid originally and then there was a little San Francisco. There was some LA and uh yeah, now I'm here.

You're not missing those places. You're into Austin. I mean, I was in New York last week. It's, you know, you reached a certain point where you're rarely home anyway. So,

word. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's w Sean. Yeah. Yeah. Um, welcome to the show. No, this is a long time coming. Um uh we know each other a bit. Um do you guys know him at all?

Do you guys know each other? Just through mixers, you know, get togethers. Um yeah,

someone set us up once. Um Jason described you. And how do you feel? Jason's like not one of your celebrity like he was if that felt like a real shot across your bow. No, if I'm being honest.

It's good. I mean, he's not one of these like these, you know, tabloid celebs, you know, that you sometimes were lucky enough to book on this show.

That's you. I've never been on a tabloid unless I'm caught in the background in one of Jen shots, you know.

I will say, you know, live living in Austin, you know, I'll go to LA sometimes and I'll think, oh, right, I'm somebody.

But at the same time, the second you leave, you're nobody, right? Well, but no, sometimes there I I feel like it's the only place I've ever been where you can feel like nobody also, right? It it has that status game

that uh is very specific. But talk about that though like you are for for a lot of the people listening to this um and maybe only Tracy um will will be like well this Noah Holly you know who is this fella I'm going to for most people they know exactly who you are and you're enormously wellknown and very very powerful in this industry but is there a part um let's put it this way I've got a I've got a I've got a writer friend of mine

okay who uh likes to also act. And is this you? He's an No. Okay. He's an enormous writer, but couldn't give a [ __ ] about the writing. Just wants to act.

Do you do you see the kind of of of of of weight and and power in in the writing that that that you should and deserve? Cuz he doesn't like he doesn't get that. Like he's he's he's already got the gold medal there by being an an incredibly successful writer. so hard to do.

No, I'm very I look I I love all the parts of the job. I I like to sit in a room and and and write a novel and the phone doesn't ring and and I like

the writer room element of it. I love to get on set and and and direct and the team sport of it all. You know, I think what makes me happiest is the fact that I don't have to do just one of those things that I can get my isolation and recharge and then I can go out and be in public. uh you know and and sort of command the ship and and you know try to elevate everyone to do their best work and

and you're creating these projects. You're creating these jobs. You're creating all these many many many people with employment and like that's not something that often an actor or a star can do. I mean they can generate heat for a project, but you're literally filling up blank pages and like creating a story and a world and a project. And I I just think it's just incredible. So,

well, thank you. And he's Jason's not unlike our current president. He's just enamored with men of power. You know what I mean? Like he's

he's And so he's just in awe of your power. No, look at him. You see the aura? I appreciate that. He can come over and tell my wife how powerful I am.

Yeah. Now, what about that? Right. What about like how old are your kids? Uh 13 and 18.

Okay. Now, so they're old enough to give it up. That's exactly the same age as mine. Um, do your kids give it up? Like, do they get what you do? Do they like what you do?

Yeah, I I think so. You know, I I don't know how it is with you, but probably one more than the other, you know. I think, you know, my son loves to He's He's the 13-year-old. He loves to come to set, give me a headset, I'm going to sit on the camera rig, you know. That's cool.

He's, you know, I call him the mayor of childhood, you know. And then and and then my my daughter's a little more retiring, a little, you know, less I I don't know. I mean, she appreciates it in a different way, I think. You know, and he I think he's like, you know, where's my director's chair?

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Is she is either one of them interested in the industry?

Early. Too early to tell, I feel like. Yeah. I mean, my son did ask me on on Alien Earth. He's like, "Is there any role like could I do anything in there?" And so I did put him in the in the show just in a sort of improv. He plays the young Alex Law character and you know I [clears throat] wasn't going to write a scene but I wanted that kind of feeling of that kind of malicky feeling of of the childhood thing. And I was like I can't hire a day player to be his dad. And then I got he's never acted before and so you know I'm always the guy who's like maximum creativity, maximum efficiency. I was like, the easiest thing to do is if I just get down on the floor and I play the dad and I'm there with him and and

you did that. I did. I did. It was a really kind of special day certainly. And and and it it did. I loosened him up. We you know, we had a good time and and it were at the end of

I've seen every episode. Were you at the end of that day? Were you like, "Hey, hey, the dad character might need a spin-off

because you know this guy's really guts." Exactly. But can you tell me like because I I I'm a massive massive fan and my husband Scotty of the Alien series of we've seen every movie, everything in between and all incarnations and and then when we saw this show coming up, Alien Earth, we're like, "Wait, finally somebody's like doing a series of it." And how did that come to you? And and did you feel the weight of it? Because we're like we did the nerd stuff. We're like, "Let's find out where it falls into the story line, you know, and the history." And it's really cool. I love I love it so much. It starts before the original Alien correct?

Yes, it's a couple of years before and after the Prometheus and the uh Covenant, right in between.

Yeah, I think I think that's accurate. You know, I I I felt like I wanted Don't mess up your microphone here. Okay. Put some plastic over it.

One of us is an expert on alien, but I don't think it's me. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'm

because uh Sean, according to your timeline, um actually it's the glasses. I got the new glasses, so they make me really smart.

Um no, but but yeah, did you feel the weight of it and how did it come to you and and how did it how did you create it?

Yeah, I mean it's you know I've now had this opportunity a couple of times, right, to take a classic film and and and turn it into a a a TV show and and you know it's for me it's never about going back and rewatching the film, right? It's it's about thinking about well how does that film live in my imagination and and what are the feelings that it brings up in me and how can I create those same feelings in in an audience by telling them a different story. You know,

the thing with an alien movie is it's a 2-hour survival story, but a a TV show has to be the opposite, right? You have to invest in 10 or 30 or 50 hours about characters who don't die, right? And so,

so, well, what is it if it's not a two-hour survival story? And and so there needs to be, you know, even if you have

60% of the best action in horror, you still have 40% of what are we talking about, right? What's the show about and and everything. So,

that's where it it started for me and and it came down to this one moment in in in

in Ridley's movie where, you know, the monster's out and Sigourney's in the communication room and and the computer is telling her that the crew is expendable and she leans back and Ian Holm is there

and you realize he's an android, right? And I thought, well, that moment in which humanity realizes it's trapped between nature and technology and they're both trying to kill us, that feels like the moment we're living in,

right? Totally. And that and that feels like what the show is about. Yeah, for sure. I got that. I got all that.

Like the Doris. Yeah. But also this also that one car that one creature that you created in the show was just the one eye, you know, like that inserts itself into other animals and humans. It's just the one eye. like it's so creepy and clever and it's like

uh and holds like all the mystery like I I think it's so cool. Yeah. Well, like I said, what are the feelings that the original gave me? Well, the one feeling that that the movie the first movie has, right, is the discovery of the life cycle

of the creature. Wait, it's an egg and then the thing comes out and attaches to your face. I'm out, right? But then, no, it gets worse. Then you falls off and you think, "Oh, I'm hungry." and you have a meal and it the next chest and then it grows to be 10 ft tall and and

but that's the one feeling we can never get back for an audience, right? Is that discovery right?

Unless we introduce these new creatures, right? We go, "All right, well, it's an eyeball with tentacles and how does it reproduce and what does it eat and I don't like that, you know?"

Wait, wait, wait, wait. So, how do you This is a great point. How about my mom?

This is one eye. No, Sean, I'm not going to reach for the lowhanging fruit, even though it's still a fruit.

That's the thing about low hanging fruit. No. Is is that um when you come up with a when you come up with a creature like that, like what are the things and it's got the tentacles and stuff.

What is that process? Are you guys in the writer room going like are people pitching like, "No, no, no. He's got eight tentacles because one of them, no, no, hang on a second. What?" And like, how do you write that? No, it's really interesting. You know, the the the writer's room, you know, I have a kind of lovehate relationship with the writer's room. I had to figure out how to use it for myself. And and what I figured out about it is it's a it's a really good way for to help me think out loud, you know?

So, I don't tend to let the room dictate tell the story. I tend to go in there and I go, "Here, here's where we are." And then if I can't be in the room tomorrow, I'll say, "All right, well, you know, it's like, let's say assimilation is a big theme in this story. Why don't you talk tomorrow about how that theme plays into all the characters, and then I'll come back and we'll talk about that, and then we'll keep moving forward." So,

Sure. But, but Okay. So, then, so then let's say you have an idea for a specific creature.

Yeah. Um, what do you and are you talking with the folks with like some of the design folks and the people about that as you're coming up with it and are they talking to you about limitations or they're like,

"Well, we don't know if we can have it, you know, suck its own eyeball out there."

Eyeball out. Family programming. Yeah. Yeah. Jason was immediately like, "Can they do that?"

Wait, what? What planet do I need to Yeah. But but you know what I mean? like what is that process of of figuring that out?

Yeah, I mean first it's a script process that you know that was my process. It's sort of function over form, right? It's it's you know what am I looking for out of this thing and and and you know both in its how it presents to start and then you know well okay here's this other creature and and you know it's a horrible thing that that sucks your blood and then you realize that it lays its eggs in your drinking water. Well, that's worse, right? And then,

you know, and so and then so then we go into a design process which was with the folks at Weda

and um yeah, we kind of worked through it and and and how long from concept and writing to the time I saw the first episode? How many years?

Oh, I mean that was four years, five years. Wow. I mean there was we all remember being on strike, right? that was in the middle and and so that was tough but it was like a full year of post production which

by the way and and even after 5 years still re like the second you watch the first episode you're like oh this is exactly what's happening in the world today

there was no chat GPT when I started right so that's that's how the zeitgeist rose rose up to me so

did you when you were when you were a young writer just starting out and forgive me I don't know your origin story to put it in Sean's terms um do you were you did do you always have a bent for writing because you've done a lot of different stuff you've written all kinds of genres you know in your professional career but did you

and novels too and novels so did you did you see yourself you write novels did you see yourself

six of them writing this kind of stuff when you were young did you have a hankering for this did you have was this a genre that you were into I'm speaking specifically about the alien world

um yeah I mean I'm a like pre- Prometheus [clears throat] right pre Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I'm I'm a third generation writer. Both my mother and her mother were were writers. Um and you know, my grandma had an eighth grade education

off the boat from Ukraine and my mother had a high school education. And so I knew early on that writing is just it's something you call yourself and then you have to earn it. There's no

special degree or anything. And I I think that's liberating because you're not learning how to write from people who are judging your work. You know, you got to assume that you're going to write some bad things and then the next thing might be better and then the thing after that may be better. And

you know, I would, you know, I I mean, the first writing I did was songwriting as a musician. Oh, wow. You know, I played guitar and had a band and then realized I'm not a night person, right? So, that was not a line of work that was going to work out

really for me. And then Jason's not an afternoon person. Well, what was that first uh what was the first um thing a little hit you got on the hook that like said, "Okay, I'm I'm I'm good. I I know I I think I know how to write because Yeah. Well, did you didn't you got you got a degree in political science, right? It wasn't in in in in writing, was it? Or did you minor in that?

Geez, man. No. Yeah, I was just, you know, studying things that were interesting to me and then and then,

you know, writing on on the side. Um, you know, it's interesting. There was in high school, you know, there was an assignment. We were reading the book Catch 22, right? And and very specific voice in that book, comedic, satirical, and there was an assignment which is write your own chapter of Catch22,

right? And I remember that being the first thing and kind of interesting considering I ended up, you know, write a Cohen brothers movie and write a Ridley Scott movie that there was something to that exercise of of

Joseph Heler's voice of finding it going, "Oh, I know what that is and I know how to do it." That that ended up being really um seinal for me, I guess.

Wow. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. Um, I just have a quick question from Scotty if that's okay.

Oh, sure. Oh, we're not really taking calls right now, but um but but it's good up the lines.

Um he says, "It feels like with your show with the upcoming release of the movie Predator Badlands, which features a character from the Alien universe, that both the Alien franchise and the Predator franchise are finally being codified in the same universe. Do you see the world of Predator being folded into the world you created, Alien?" Now I've wrecked my microphone.

Do you see them combined at all? Uh or or Predator coming onto your show? Uh no, not onto the show, I don't think. I mean, I think Dan Tractenberg, who made uh Prey and has made uh the Badlands movie and you know, I mean, I I loved Prey. I think he's doing a great job with that franchise. He he clearly has has a plan there.

Um I you know, I've met I've met Dan once. We're not kind of coordinating any of that stuff. So,

yeah. Yeah. Okay, fine. That's not really my my plan to do it. Yeah. Sure. So, just tell Scotty down.

Yeah. He just comes in in a predator outfit. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Um Well, so Noah, let me tell us about that moment that the the the switch from political science um to to writing. Was there was there a first job? Was there was it was it a school paper? like what what was that um transition?

No, I mean I I had done some fiction writing in you know as a as a kid and then in in college um and as I said I was you know I was trying to be a rock star but you know to make ends meet I I took a job um working as a as a parallegal uh for the legal aid society in New York City in in family courts. So these are the lawyers who represent children in

abuse and neglect cases to termination or parental right cases but also but also juvenile delinquency cases. So both civil and criminal law.

And what did you do? Sorry. What did you do? I was a parallegal. I basically tried to help help them you know case law etc. And and you know it was

if a dad took off in a you know a in a car in a Miata let's say let's say let's say it's a Miata. Let's say there was a lot of wheel spin and um

an MG and there was four or five kids in the rear view. Would you you would take that case on. Yes. Even if it was in Chicago, those kids deserve their day in court as long as they do. Amen. All right. All right. I'm going to tell my dad. I'll see you in court. Yeah.

Yeah. Um but you know, in the family court, the family court building at that time was this huge black obelisk. It looked like Darth Vader's helmet. Yeah.

Right. And so every [clears throat] day I'd go to work and these these kids would come in and you know it's obviously it's it's heartbreaking, you know, it's it's outrageous, etc. And I started writing fiction as a way to kind of process.

Yeah. You know, and and you know, when you're in a band, you're tied to these three filthy penniles men, right? And and fiction writing was

I know. Yeah. Fiction writing was a a way to I could just do it myself. And you know, when you wrote 10 pages, you had 10 pages, right? Like it's

Was your material dark at that time? Was it a reflection of what you were going through?

Well, it no, I I've always been playful and and you know, I've always been attracted to to genre and elevating genre, you know, as character pieces, etc. So, I don't know. Oh, you know, the first novel I published was called A Conspiracy of Tall Men, and it was about a professor of conspiracy theories whose wife is killed in a plane crash, and he finally gets the conspiracy he's been looking for, but of course, it's no solace cuz, you know, he had to lose his wife to get it. And it has a bit of a thriller quality. It's also a little satirical.

You know, I'm always just trying to figure out what how does the story want to be told. M uh wait but but the but the time as a parallegal and witnessing all of that you know horrible stuff take kids and the parents and the families how did that affect you and do how do you see the how did that change who you are as a person as a writer as a parent um after being experienced and to after experiencing all of that.

Yeah. Well, believe me, I tell my kids every day, you got it good. You don't know how good you got it.

Right. Right. For sure. No, it's interesting, you know, because I my daughter is 18, as I said, and and if I look back at the last 20 years of stories that I've told really, you know, I can't separate my identity as a parent from the stories I'm telling. I, you know, I look at at Alien Earth, which is about these children whose minds are put into adult bodies, or or Fargo season 4, which is about these two crime bosses who trade their youngest sons. There's always something that ties into like who are we as a people? How are we raising our children and and you know what is moral and what is cynical and how are we preparing our kids for the world.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean Noah, how do you do do you have a um a a structured way in which you divvy up your day to to to to tackle these to allow your brain to think what do I want to do? What do I want to say? Uh what should this episode be about? what should my next project be about? Um, and then and then do you have a certain time like is in the afternoon where you actually then do the writing and then another period of time management and like how do you I just can't imagine how you take on as much concentrated individual time along with all the time you need to spend with the teams that you're running.

It kind of depends on what phase I'm in, right? It's, you know, right right now, um, you know, I can look at at at having to have scripts due in a in a few months and production coming up and, you know, I'm sort of in a phase right now which is every day I'm like, where does my brain want to go, okay?

You know, and and so and some days that that's like, you know, I want to watch movies or I, you know, I want to read this book. And other days it's like, oh, I guess I'm going to think about, you know, Alien Earth today or I'm going to think about Fargo today. And and

you know, in that way, you know, when an idea is new, you don't want to look at it directly. You want to side eye it. You know, you're like, it's fragile. You're like, I don't know what this is yet, and I don't want to scare it. So, and I don't want to tell anybody about it. And I just kind of kind of and and then after after a few days or a couple of weeks, you start to go, "Okay, now I see a little more clearly, you know, I think I can start to make some hard hard choices here."

It starts chasing you. Yeah, I like that idea. I like to like keep things out in a kind of a soft focus. I always say like just keep it out there in a soft focus for now

and let it kind of let it come into let it sort of marinate and come into focus on its own a little bit. You know, Jason was saying you've got all these different things that you're working on and when they're in production, I imagine they're in production in lots of different locations as well, which must uh also be a big issue.

Yeah. You know, we love Canada. We film a lot in Canada. It's uh But no, I I mean, I shot I shot Alien Earth in Bangkok. We were in Thailand for for you know, what was probably a total of a year.

You know, I wasn't there the whole time. I'm there for a couple of months here, a couple of months there. Um, but uh, yeah, it's hard. It's hard. And, and if I can time it to a kids summer vacation, it's easier. And if not, we try to have a two week rule.

But can't come back from Thailand for a weekend. You know what I mean? I was just going to ask to be to mimic your son and say, look, if there's a part in alien earth,

I always say you can't come back from [clears throat] a weekend in Thailand. You know what I mean?

I Well, it's metaphorical and literal. Yeah. [snorts] Yeah. So, they said anything. No, there I I I it is uh it's a coincidence. No. Uh but incredible that you have adapted, as you said earlier, two iconic films into television series. Is is that a coincidence or um well, let's start with Fargo. How did you have the moxy to say, I want to approach the Cohen brothers and talk to them about turning their iconic film into a television series. And then how did you do that again for Ridley with Ridley Scott?

Yeah, I mean luckily these were these were both sort of incoming calls. Uh I I had written a couple of pilots for FX. I knew them. I was in talking to them about something else. They had

optioned Fargo as a TV show. Joel and Ethan had signed on and they'd said, "If we like the script, you can put our name on it and if not, you know where to send the check." and and

you know so the first process was to sell FX and to go through you know um that that process and write a script and then we sent that first script to Joel and Ethan and that was when I met them and and

when sorry when FX optioned it was it always going to be an anthology or was the original conceit to take the original characters and and keep moving them? Yeah, they wanted to make a TV show out of it, but they also said, "Do you think we could do it without Marge?" Because who how could you ever top Francis McDorman, right? And I said, "Well,

well, first of all, everyone else is dead or in jail. So, all right. Well, that's interesting. If you're adapting the movie without actually any of the characters in the movie, then what are you doing?" And I said, "Look, it's not a TV show because the movie says it's a true story." Um, and at the end of it, she's seen the craziest Cohen brother's case, and tomorrow's a normal day, and she's got two months left to have the baby, and he got the three cent stamp, and and you know what I mean? It's a closedended thing. If she woke up

tomorrow and it was another crazy Comb Brothers case, you couldn't say it's a true story. No one would would believe it, right? I said, but you could,

you know, why is the movie called Fargo? It's set in Minnesota except that Fargo, the word is evocative of a place, right? What Joel and Ethan call Siberia with family restaurants and and you know, but it's also after that movie, it's kind of a state of mind. It's a type of story. And so I said, you know, so you could tell this story about Fargo and this is a Fargo story or, you know, as proved out, it could also be a 1979 crime epic about the death of the family business and the rise of corporate America. Or it could be a 1950 story about, you know, the the sort of alternate economy and immigration and etc. So every time I just try to push that envelope of what is a Fargo story,

but it would all need to take place in Fargo, though. Yes. No, it all needs to I mean, not not even

Fargo, North Dakota. Yes. Well, but it needs to have some connection, you know, whether there's a character. I mean, the the fourth season took place in Kansas City, but Jesse Buckley's character was from North Dakota, you know, and and

um you know, this last season with John Ham, you know, he was in in North Dakota.

Oh, yeah. But um new [ __ ] guy. I don't know how he gets hired. every [ __ ] month. It's a new godamn damn vehicle. Just let it out. [ __ ] face everywhere. All of that. All of that needs to be trimmed out, but I just needed to

Yeah. No, I'm glad you got that off your chest. So, sorry. Okay. So, we're back. Um, so, uh, the fourth season was with the great John Ham,

right? Fourth season. Fourth season. Fifth season. Yeah. Yep. That's your back. season was Chris Rock and uh anyway uh so yeah so they came to me but then of course I realized look you know it's great I wrote a a script that the Cohen brothers you know when I spoke to them finally and they said it's you know we hate imitation but this was it was eerie reading this because it felt like you were channeling us right that's a great thing to hear that's makes makes my millennia right

but then but then you got to film it and and and there's We know we know that the Cohens they they write or rewrite a lot of movies that they don't direct and those movies never feel like Cohen brothers movies. So there's something in the cinema,

right, that turns those words into that thing and I had to figure out what that was otherwise I was going to fail on my face, you know.

Did you end up directing the first episode? I didn't because I wasn't really directing then. And so, you know, I had a director.

Yeah. Who was it? Did somebody come in and say, "Yeah, here's the visual component that is the Cohen brothers."

Yeah, Adam Bernstein came in and he had shot a bunch of uh Breaking Bad and and we had a good collaboration. Um but you know, he he gave me his director's cut and and and you know, I I recut it, you know, um I recut it to find the tone of voice that to me felt like a Cohen brothers movie. It's not as comedic as you think,

right? And and a lot of the comedy is deployed, you know, like Anton Sugar's haircut. It's deployed in a way where you're like, well, it's not funny. It's just really specific and kind of unsettling, right? And

but it ends up being funny, you know? Yeah. Well, one of the one of the first things I did was I I took like half the edits out of the episode, you know, because nothing makes something feel like television more than

you're cutting every time someone talks, right? I mean, there's a scene in the emergency room where where where uh Martin Freeman meets Billy Bob for the first time and I'm in this master shot sort of slowly pushing in and you know Billy Bob gets up and moves over next to him and that's the first cut, you know, but that's a long time, right? But that's what a movie feels like. It's you trust the audience. So

wait, so who like because you're you're right. It's it's I love Martin Freeman. Sorry, I just had to say that.

Have you seen his show by the way? No. Have you seen a show The Responder that he did?

No, I haven't. In the UK? Oh my god. He plays a cop in Liverpool. It's unbelievable. He's so good in that show. Please. I I

I'll watch it. Yeah, watch it. It's so so um So, the the comedy that like comes like you were talking about from the Cohen brothers. Who was that for you growing up? Who who was the who was the the show, the movie, the people, the comedians that you're like, you know what, I really like that kind of style. Well, I grew up because my father had studied acting in the UK. He came back with a lot of Goon Show Records, which was Spike Milligan and and Peter Sers and and Harry, this radio halfhour radio show.

Um, it was that it was Monty Python. It was Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. There was a lot of that

Brit British humor that that really uh um was seinal for me. And and then you know I my because people ask me when was the first time you saw Alien and I'll and I and I say well I'll tell you the first time I didn't see it was a 9-year-old's birthday party where my parents were like yeah you're not going to that. And so we went to see the in-laws instead

right with Alan Arin and Peter Fox. And I was like [clears throat] I think that explains everything about me right you know. So, so you know that that's the sort of thing is the the absurdism but but also you know um the cinematic nature of it,

right? Is there is Go ahead, Jason. Well, this this the first television writing g gig came on Bones. Yes. Yeah. So, you're a writer producer on that. Um and and then then you start to create your own shows. So, you start The Unusuals in my generation were those two of the first. Yeah.

Both for ABC. Yeah. And was it was it is was it a difficult process to get the the networks interested in your ideas? I mean, were they were they were they receptive right away based on your your time there on Bones or was that kind of a tough transition into being a a showrunner?

I mean, I I had come from being a novelist, you know, to writing an original spec feature film that I ended up selling and my first novel had been optioned and they said, "All right, well, now you're a screenwriter, so give it a shot." So, I did some feature writing and then, you know, um the TV agents at the agency were like, "Would you ever think about doing TV?" So, I went out and I took some meetings and I ended up selling a couple of TV pilots that I that I wrote and I thought, "Well, if any of these ever get produced, I should know how to make a show." And so, whatever it was, 2004, I came I was in San Francisco. I came down to LA and I staffed on Bones. And I did it because Hart Hansen, who ran the show, said, "Well, you're going to learn how to make a show."

Yeah. There were other shows where they're like, "You're going to be in the room the whole time." And I was like, "Well, I know how to write. I but I need to know how to how to produce a thing." And then, but then while I was on staff, you know, I was still I published another book. I I sold a movie script each each season. I I didn't write a pilot the first year, but the second year I went into ABC

and developed a show with them that they really liked, but they didn't make, right? Because it didn't really have a genre, right? That was the broadcast days where they're like lawyer, Dr. cop, right? And so the next

Do you think that show Do you think that show would have been made today? Sorry to interrupt.

I think so. Yeah. It was a sort of white trash dynasty about a guy who who had a used car empire and he had four families and everybody worked for him and you know, it was a really fun sort of

I want to watch that show. See you as the lead on that, Willie. Yeah, for sure. Um [snorts] and they really liked it and the character work and so then strategically I thought, okay, well, I'm going to go back in the next year. What can I sell them that they would actually make? And I thought, well, let's sell them a cop show, not a procedural, but like a Hill Street or or a Barney Miller or something like that. And so that's the

show I pitched them and and then, you know, we we got it through the process with Jeremy Rener and and you know, Goldberg and Harold Perano and and you know, we did the eight hours and then they said, "Thank you." And and don't let the door hit you on the way out. And then the next day, Jeremy Rener was nominated for an Oscar for Hurt Locker. Uh-huh. Right.

Like, you guys are real geniuses. Um, yeah. How did Tell talk to us about how the the the directing thing started to come about. Um, and and what and and and where did your confidence start to when did your confidence start to grow for that? Like asking for the the the wheel.

Yeah. I mean, you know what you realize, especially when there's comedy in the work, right? Is is that is that you know, where you see the joke is different than where somebody else sees the joke, right? where with a beat and and even the unusual's pilot, right, is like Stephven Hopkins had directed it and you know he cut a much broader comedy than I saw, right? And so I would go in and you know so you start in the editing room to be a filmmaker,

right? You know, and and where, you know, I'm not a I'm not a big fan of melodrama. I like to keep the

emotion sort of low until it's really earned. and you know and and [clears throat] then my generation was a it was a a fake documentary about the high school class of 2000 and where they were 10 years later. And so I had to approach it like I was making a documentary film. So, you know, when you watch a documentary, you're like, well, the cameras weren't there. or they've got an audio recording or they've got still photographs or they've got, you know, or if the cameras were there and the couple had a fight and she ran off and he ran after her.

Well, the camera's not there waiting, right? Right. The camera's chasing, right? So, so there was a cinematic mindset of making that. And then of course, as I said with the Cohen brothers film, you know, I started doing a lot of the second unit directing on on the first season of Fargo and then I I just started doing the episodic world creation in in season two. Did you find did you find it um I think most people can read something or watch something and from the comfort of their couch, the safety of their couch, they can say, "Oh, I would do this differently or I would do that differently." And those are nine times out of 10 like really good ideas. They're they're good catches. They're good fixes. But if you give them a blank page or you give them a screen with no image on it or more pointedly on a on a set standing in front of a bunch of actors and and some cameras and a cameraman, knowing how to create from the ground

up, you know, to put this thing into three dimensions. Like did you find that that change in the process from just from recutting stuff that's in front of you to actually creating it from the ground up on set? Was that a comfortable thing for you or did that did would that have some growing pains?

You know, I'm sure you had that moment the first time um you're on a set and and they go, "What's next, boss?" And you don't know, right?

And 200 people are staring at you. You know, I've gotten I've gotten comfortable with that feeling, which is like I just need a minute. I'm going to figure it out. And because then of course people start to offer suggestions, which isn't helpful, right? And and everything.

Um, no, it was just about about finding the again, as I said, the feeling and I I don't have any training on this and and you know, so a lot of it for me, you know, there there's a moment on Alien Earth. I did that that fifth hour which was the trapped in the spaceship. um you know, hour where where um

you know, you see what happened before the ship crashed and and you know, this moment where where Richard Morani was running away from the the xenomorph and she was hiding and she was pressed against a wall and we could see down the hallway and the xenomorph came out and and I thought,

well, I want to do a push in here, but let's do a zoom and what what if we zoom on her and then we, you know, we do it as a lockoff and then I do a longer zoom on the xenomorph and then I marry those two things. It's kind of an impossible shot. I don't know if it's going to work or not work, but I know it'll give you a feeling, right? Which is like

something feels wrong here, right? Which you don't know is a cinematic thing. You just feel that feeling. And that's sort of how how I approach it.

Super cool. And we will be right back. And now back to the show. Did you find Did you find that once you got kind of like JB was saying like you could create from the ground up in real time as a director on set, did you find that it took a step out of the process for you because as a writer, as a producer, as the showrunner, all these things, you're watching cuts or you're watching them shoot stuff and you're like, "Yeah." And you're trying to convey what it is that you want. And at a certain point, just being able to cut the middleman out, as it were, was that satisfying?

Well, look, my my wife Kyle, who I love dearly, she said, you know, at one point to me, do you have to direct two?

Right. You know, and I said, but here's the thing. As opposed to just one. No. Do do you have to direct at all? Like, you're all you're writing, you're you're showrunner.

And I said, well, here's the thing. I'd have to be there anyway. Right. the first episode of a new season, a new series, whatever. I got to be there anyway. It's actually you're going to see me quicker if I do. Yeah. Way more efficient.

Yeah. So, so that's that. And and for me, look, it's it's all an act of play, right? There's a, you know, I'm as a writer, I'm a sort of yes and improv guy, you know, in the room. I'm like, okay, I like that. We're doing that. Now what? Right? I mean, I've heard these stories about Vince Gilligan where he's like, "That's good. Let's spend two weeks seeing if we can top it.

That would make me crazy, you know." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For Tracy, he created Breaking Bad. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, so you get on set and and you know, I have a script I I think is great and I and I and I get on the set with the actors and I'm not saying we're going to change the words, but like let's figure out what it would really be like and and what it wants to be and and you you know, you got to be open to play in that in that moment.

Yeah. What about [clears throat] So, you you um you wrote and directed uh a film as well, Lucy in the Sky with Natalie Portman. Um, was the was the film experience uh anything different than basically just a double length episode for you? And I guess the question behind the question is, is there a desire to to do film or do you see it as just simply arbitrarily a different medium that is every bit uh consistent with what you're doing on television anyway? And one could argue much more sort of creative control on television.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's its own unique medium, right? And I did like the experience of it, you know? I mean, one of the things that, you know, I'm I'm such a use every part of the animal television filmmaker that, you know, sometimes a scene doesn't fit and you're like, I'll use it in episode 4, you know, or I'll repurpose this and then but with the movie you're like, there is no episode 4. It's either in this movie or it doesn't exist, right? and and um you know whenever I come into a project my first question is always what am I taking for granted right as a storyteller or a filmmaker whatever and with Lucy I was like all right well this is a movie that's going to be shown in theaters well maybe I'm taking the movie theater itself for granted the fact that it's a you got a giant rectangle at the front and all these speakers on the side and you're taking for granted that you want to use the whole rectangle and all

the speakers but what if this woman goes to space and it's this huge, you know, spiritual experience and the screen is full and the sound is full and then she comes back down to earth. We see her in the pickup line, you know, to pick up her kid and now the image is small and the sound is in the front, right? But but then, you know, she meets your friend John Ham and you guys want to grumble about John some more.

I mean, she's all right. He's all right. He's okay. But she meets John and she they have an affair and so the feelings get big and the screen o opens up, you know. So I'm always looking for those sorts of of things, you know. The I think that the structure of a story should reflect the content of a story, you know.

And what was it about that story that you thought uh lent itself better to uh to to feature as opposed to long form in in uh in television? And and how do you treat any idea that comes into your head? Decide whether to, you know, write another book based on that idea or actually this is something that could go into as a as a limited series or an ongoing or a feature.

Some of it is how long you want to live with it and and the other, you know, TV we're we're interacting with the culture mostly in real time. You know, you might be 18 months a year away like from writing to

to production airing or whatever. a book, you know, you might live with for five years, a film you might live with for seven years before it hits the screen. And so, it's sort of like, is this interesting enough? Is this going to hold my attention enough? Is there enough there for me to live with for that length of time? And do I have enough to say?

Were there any were there [clears throat] any sort of creative babies that you had to let go that ideas that you loved for a long time? is anyone that sticks [clears throat] out that you're like, I loved this so passionately for a year and then you read someone else a year and a day later you're like somebody or you just or you just go and it doesn't really get me anymore.

Yeah. Well, well, I feel like you're looking for some free ideas here. I'm just saying if you could DM me all I'm saying

what would it be and can I produce it? Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, there's always stuff, but again, I'm

You don't have to say specifically the actual idea, but like just Yeah, I think there are things and and there, you know, there's scripts that I wrote that I that I love and and, you know, I wrote this novel before the fall and and, you know, Sony owned it and I adapted. I think it's great, but it's expensive, right? It's like a, you know, $70 million drama thriller and they don't make those right now. So, I could beat my head against a wall for 5 years trying to get it made or I could go I'm going to b my time and and

or turn it into a limited series. Yeah. Or turn it into a limited series. Yeah. So,

what about other people's ideas? Let me shoot you my number real quick. Okay, great. Thanks.

What? Like, are you you're such an aur. Do you even spend any time um considering other people's work and and adapting that?

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, Lucy in the Sky. I did not originate that project. that Fox Search Light brought that to me. It was a it was a a script that Reese Witherstone was producing. The first draft, you know, it's sort of like a dramatization of this true, you know, this tabloid story about this astronaut who has an affair and, you know, drives across the country allegedly in a diaper, you know, to kidnap the, you know, it's a it's a very a tabloidy story. And the first script was kind of a diaper joke script and I passed on it. And then, you know, and then they came back to me with with a script that began through magic realism to explore her psychological state of how she went from being that one person to being that other person.

And I thought that was really interesting. And so I I signed on and I developed it with John Henry Butterworth. and and then you know but it's in the end I feel like if I had had the idea and written it from scratch it probably would have been a different movie. You know when you

get a script you kind of can't see past what the script was. Mhm. So I don't know it was it was a $35 million magic realism astronaut movie and it turns out people don't want to see those. So

you know I'm not sure what they want to see nowadays. It's such a it's such a crapshoot you know. It's really really interesting. What about stuff for the stage or theater?

Oh, here he comes. Oh, boy. No, I just Yeah, I Did you ever forget a line on stage? And anybody ever have a heart attack?

I think about it. You know, like I said, I'm a New York City kid. My dad had been an actor. I grew up going to all the, you know, shows and,

you know, it's and it's a different medium. It's a an animal I haven't tried yet, you know.

Yeah. It's a good uh way to test the waters for, you know, bigger things. Yeah. And then and so let's not let's go back to to music a little bit. Um uh Sean, will you be surprised to hear that he's a singer as well and has sung on his on some of his shows? Yes. I didn't know that.

You've you do a little bit of singing. I think that's uh that's a that's a big surprise. We like to know what would the audience be surprised about.

Yeah. Can you give us a little something a little a little something something?

Just like happy birthday. You know, it's Sean's birthday today. Happy birthday to you. Okay.

Yeah, that's something you still do. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And and you know, like I said, I I wanted to be a a musician. It wasn't really in the cards for me professionally, but I found a workaround, right? That's that's what I try to do is what's the system and can I game it? And you know, it it started on on season two of Fargo where I where I decided I wanted songs in the in the show that were covers of songs from Cohen Brothers movies, you know. So Jeff Tweety did the did a cover of the Joseé Feliciano song from the movie Fargo and and um you know there were a lot you know uh there were a lot of of covers and then I thought well why don't I I do one and so Jeff Russo the composer and I recorded the Go to Sleep Your Little Baby from from O Brother and then

and then when I made Legion which was a you know a very surreal um Marvel inspired show I wanted the songs to sound like score. I wanted I I wanted it to go from score into songs without feeling like there was any difference. So, he and I just started recording again. It's like I hear it in my head. I could try to explain it to somebody else or we could just do it, you know, and so that

that's what we ended up ended up doing and now we do it. Cool. Tell tell the audience a bit the the the the torture, the horror or the pleasure, you tell me, of pitching. Um what what what a what a writer Well, you explain what a writer has to do to get the people who write the checks to write the check. Like you got to basically tell them what's coming right?

And you got to trick them sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating that this visual medium is still rooted in the oral storytelling tradition, right? Which is I walk into a room, I tell you a story, right?

Right. And if I'm charismatic and, you know, I've got good timing, you're going to go, "Oh my god, that's amazing. I want to I want to see that."

Right? I did one one pitch where I went in and, you know, I started to talk about the segue, right? The segue, of course, is the segue from small talk to the pitch, right? We did the small talk and I was like, you know, I was thinking over on the way over here about the segue of how I was going to get into the pitch and I was thinking about how

are you to like Yeah, I was thinking about how recently my house got broken into and they stole some guitars and then I was thinking, no, maybe I'll talk about how I was watching TV last night and Stripes was on and I thought we don't have that kind of Bill Murray anti-hero anymore. And I went through a couple of other things and then at a certain point they realized, oh, the segue is the pitch, right? Because it is an anti-hero story about a crime. you know, and and

so it's my feeling is always when you're asking someone to interact with the show in any way, whether it's an outline or a pitch, it's got to feel like the show.

Yeah. And so I do these hair and makeup tests when we get on set where it's, you know, it's grown to this thing where I'll have like a a you know, a crane on on my hair and makeup, you know, because I'll get the characters in. I'm like, what? Let's not waste an opportunity just by looking at people in clothes, right? we have an opportunity to like, you know, let's get let's get David Thulis and Michael Stolbar and you McGregor in a room and feel like what that dynamic is between them and and you know and so I end up cutting these things together with music and I and when I show show it to them that they this is what the show's going to feel like, right?

Yeah. Because it's not I I mean we we're kind of past the point of talking just going in a room and pitching and telling a story. You need shiny objects. you need to excite them and you need to like, you know, sizzle reels and or whatever.

But it's great for the actors because they get to put the skin on without any pressure, right, for a day or two and and then the wakes the crew up, right? They're like, "Oh, we're we're pushing a dolly in the in the hair and makeup test." Like, I'm laying track and we're doing this for real.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, we we did that. We did that actually on our film last year on this this movie that I did and we uh we did all this camera testing here in the city outside just me and Bradley and Matty Latitique and guys and we went out and shot for a couple days during the day at night. We went shot all this stuff. Um, and Bradley ended up cutting it together and and putting together this reel that he was showing the studio and cut it with music and with stuff that have and it was so a it was great for them but b really for us it really started to it taught us the language of the film before we started.

Yeah. You get to feel it. Yeah. And it was uh it was really really helpful. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah. It [clears throat] is. It is. I find it, you know, and and it it becomes a sales document for them internally of like, look what look what this guy's making for us. You know, we're making Alien Earth and you feel like you're watching, you know, an alien movie for four minutes or whatever it is. Yeah. It's

um we would be uh criminal if we let you go without giving you an opportunity to discuss with Sean um what to the extent you're comfortable. We can cut it if you're not. uh what happened with Star Trek and will it will will your participation with Star Trek uh be coming at?

Yeah, because you're supposed to write and direct it, right? Or was or I did I I I signed on, you know, after Lucy in the Sky, I thought, "Oh, I like this movie thing. I'd like to do another one, but I think maybe I'd like to try something a little bigger." And, you know, it's all franchises. And I thought, "Yeah, but everything's war, right? Star Wars is war and Marvel is war and but Star Trek isn't war. Star Trek is exploration, right? It's people solving problems by being smarter than the other guy. Like

the best movie from the best moment from Star Trek is in Wrath of Khan where where where Shatner puts on his reading glasses and like lowers the shields on the other ship. It costs like4, right? But it's like you see, oh, he's smarter than Khan. He's, you know, and

and so I went in, I talked to Paramount. I sold him this original idea. It wasn't Chris Pine. And it wasn't anything. I wrote it. They said, "We love it. Let's prep it." We were, you know, we were I was going to move to Australia. We were booking stages, whatever. And and then, you know, as happens in Hollywood, uh um Jim Geianopoulos, who was running the studio at the time, he he's like, "I'm going to bring in somebody else under me, and they're going to take over the film studio." Oh, and the first thing they did was kill the original Star Trek movie cuz

because they said, "Well, how do we know people are going to like it?" Like there, you know, shouldn't we do a transition movie from Chris Pine, Play It Safe, you know, whatever. And so

it kind of went away. But, you know, I do. I mean, I I I talked to David Ellison recently and I was like, "You still haven't made a Star Trek movie. I'm just saying it's in there. I love it."

Yeah. It's sort of like with all this new ownership and administration over there, I guess it's you can't just pick up the phone and say, "Hey, guys, want to dust this off?"

Yeah. Right. Right. You just wait five minutes in Hollywood for everybody to get a new job and then go pick the same stuff again. Sean,

what are you saying? Nothing. You know, but but I I mean, I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but they, you know, to some degree, you really have to declare this is my next thing. This is all I want to do, all I want to think about, and then and then you can move the mountain, right? for for me, I've got more Alien Earth. I I could make more Fargo. Like, it's a little it's more like well

you know, what I learned from Ridley Scott, you know, who who I got to know some, you know, he'll develop three movies at the same time, and he'll say to Sony, I'm going to make the Fox movie unless you guys,

right? You know what I mean? So, you kind of have to try to get them to play your game as opposed to playing

create a little leverage there. Right. Right. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, you've certainly done your part with that. Um, keep it keep it coming, please. Noah, it's uh it's it's an incredible body of work already. And um are you even 40 yet? I mean, you know, I mean,

I am. I'm older than 40. Well, um you've uh you've got it's just impressive. It's so broad and it's so diverse and it's so everything about it is just it's really

the degree of difficulty is high on this stuff. You're not you're not and the novel and the the fact that you write novels and like the

all these novels that these guys will never read. Yeah. I am I am going to start I am going to buy some of your books. Uh

I appreciate that. Even if they're just on your shelf, it's me. No, no. He reads these things. It's a very surprising element of Will Arnett. This guy knocks down books like Reese Witherspoon.

Yeah. So, I'm I'm going to check it out. Um All right, Pal. Well, thank you for doing this very much. I'm glad we got this done. Um, I'm glad you had time to squeeze this in uh in your busy busy schedule.

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it. So nice to meet you. Yeah, nice to meet you, Noah. Thanks, man. You too, guys.

Talk soon, man. There goes Noah Holly. Um, I mean, I wish something else, man. What an impressive guy.

I like to think I work hard, you know, but I don't. What are you talking about? You're tired at two.

Yeah, but I work so hard until two. Yeah. How I mean, let me You like to think that you work hard. And can I just say and I want you to be honest. as honest as you can be.

Okay, I'm ready. How many golf games do you have scheduled this week, including yesterday? [snorts]

Uh, I will be playing Wednesday, Thursday Friday. Okay. Um, but I work I work during the round, as you know. I'm returning emails and texts all the way through it.

And I'm usually knocking down one of these goddamn things before I get out there.

Um, and then I'm making more phone calls when I get home. Sorry we're getting in the way of your golf.

This [ __ ] podcast, man. No good for my golf game. By the way, Sean, you know what? My favorite thing about JB is sometimes we're playing golf and he won't pull out his phone, but you'll see him all of a sudden he'll just wander off talking into his Apple into his watch

and and he's talking to his wrist and he's like, "Yeah, we'll get them to send it. Tell them we'll look at the thing tomorrow if the but why don't we try to do an episode of Smart List while you're playing golf?" you know, because I I don't play that much. Um I I work I work a lot. Um

No, but while you're on the court, why don't we go to Hawaii and play around of golf?

We've been invited and uh you know, we're actually to be honest, we're all a little bit too busy to do that.

I know. You know, we're all we're all Should we should we I think and I know again we should talk about this privately, but we might as well do it here. We've talked about it. We should go back and and do some shows. Uh some live shows.

Yeah. Why not? Start get up back get back out on the road. Yeah. Do it. Why wouldn't we?

Yeah. At the very at the at a minimum we should go and and and be on stage somewhere and doing it in front of a live audience.

Why don't we do it like at the end of next year? Okay. We could. Could we do the spring or No. Is the spring off limits for us?

I'm check my book. Can you guys hold on one second? Yeah. No. Shnie, when have you done the play?

I'm doing the play. Uh January. I love that we're doing this in real time on the show.

I know through the play January to April like the January basically February. I say we do like pre-summer so it's nice out. That's what I'm saying. That we can get out there some nice places.

Sort of like September. Remember we were going to go we were going to I might have a little bit of work uh as well.

Well, I know you are. I know. You're not planning on doing any work. Will are you done?

I am. I might I might I might You're going to pack it in now? You know what? We can we can we can talk about it. We can we can keep talking about like we don't have to decide now. We don't we can make a decision.

Yeah. Bye. No. God. No. Sean, what was yours going to be? Mine was we can just talk about We don't have to decide now. We can go day

by day. Or you know what? Better still, we just play it by ear. Wow. A three by

triple by pass. Smart. Smart glass smartless is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Bennett Barbco, Michael Grant, Terry, and Rob Armjarf. Smart less.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Noah Hawley | SmartLess"?

Sean Hayes (Host), Will Arnett (Host), Jason Bateman (Host), Noah Hawley (Guest), Scotty (unidentified) (Guest), Tracy (unidentified) (Guest).

What is "Noah Hawley | SmartLess" about?

Noah Hawley, a prominent figure in the entertainment industry, discusses his experiences with public appearances and nerves while promoting his upcoming movie, set to be released on December 19th. The conversation also touches on personal style and the dynamics of being a guest on talk shows.

What is mentioned in this SmartLess episode?

57 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Noah Hawley, Alien Earth, Alien: Earth, Fargo, Coen brothers, Star Trek. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Noah Hawley | SmartLess"?

The episode runs 1 h 4 min; the transcript is about 13,544 words in 285 timestamped sections.

More from SmartLess

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 19, 2025.