Pam Abdy & Mike De Luca | SmartLess

Who speaks in this episode?

• Michael De Luca (Guest)
• Will Arnett (Host)
• Pam Abdi (Guest)
• Michael Duca (Guest)

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Pam Abdi, Will Arnett, George Will, California
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Producer, New Line, Jersey, Jersey Films
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Pandemic, Sinners, Sinners, Sinners
4. 30:00 – 40:00: New Line, Warner Brothers, David Fincher, Newline
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Tik Tok, YouTube, James Gun, Quibby
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Moneyball, Moneyball, Moneyball, Moneyball
7. 1:00:00 – 1:03:21: Warner Brothers, Barbie, Barbie, Barbie

Notable quotes from "Pam Abdy & Mike De Luca | SmartLess"

• Everybody sleep okay today? Yeah, we're we're a little tight tie. Yeah, I guess so. I got my PJs on still. Will, do you wear your pajamas to the office? I don't. I could. It's so fast. It's a five-minute drive now from my new place.

  about Will Arnett · at 3:13

• Please meet the co-chairs and CEOs of Warner Brothers Motion Picture Group, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca. What? On the smart list. Good morning. Good morning.

  about Warner Brothers · at 7:50

• It when they get their first dose of real responsibility. So when I got when they when New Line made me head of production in the '9s I was only I was 26 27 and I you know it was the first big responsibility I ever got.

  about New Line · at 14:53

• Everybody tries. So, but there's room for the originals, too, like what you guys did with Sinners, right? Yeah. We think a balanced slate where you have something for everyone.…

  about Sinners · at 22:23

• Some of the more specific creative voices behind these movies, people like Paul Thomas Anderson and David Fincher, etc., etc.

  about Paul Thomas Anderson · at 31:36

• Speaking of IP, you mentioned earlier you're a big comic book collector, Mike. And so one of the things you guys get to oversee is DC and James Gun and.

  about DC · at 47:14

• Hijackers are saying to Captain Phillips. And when you can dramatize because I did Moneyball, Captain Phillips, and Social Network all based on true stories. And the neat thing…

  about Moneyball · at 52:00

• Chocolate snacks you Yeah. no wait I got one. Oh here he comes. you know but the biggest movie that they did was so great. What was it last year?

  about Barbie · at 1:01:52

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Michael De Luca — Person · Main guest · 1 mention · first at 8:12
  Co-chair/CEO of Warner Bros. Motion Picture Group; provides detailed perspective on studio economics, IP vs originals, and working with directors.
  [ __ ] once. This is cool. I had to hold my laughter in. Oh my god. I want to say Pam's still at home. Mike, you're at the office. I am. I'm in the office.
• Will Arnett — Person · Co-host · 2 mentions · first at 1:37
  One of the three SmartLess hosts; drives the intro/banter and asks many of the business questions of the guests.
• Pam Abdi — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at 7:56
  Co-chair/CEO of Warner Bros. Motion Picture Group; discusses studio strategy, slate balance, theatrical vs streaming, and filmmaker relationships.
  Please meet the co-chairs and CEOs of Warner Brothers Motion Picture Group, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca. What? On the smart list. Good morning. Good morning.
• Michael Duca — Person · Main guest · 1 mention · first at 7:56
  Co-chair and CEO of Warner Bros. Motion Picture Group; provides detailed perspective on studio economics, risk, IP, directors, and DC’s reporting structure.
  Please meet the co-chairs and CEOs of Warner Brothers Motion Picture Group, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca. What? On the smart list. Good morning. Good morning.
• Paul Thomas Anderson — Person · 3 mentions · first at 23:24
• Tom Rothman — Person · 3 mentions · first at 20:58
  It's and there's no blanket statement for Hollywood. Like it's so it's so it's so different. our friend Donna Langley at Universal is different than Tom Rothman at Sony. We do…
• George Will — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:37
  Everybody sleep okay today? Yeah, we're we're a little tight tie. Yeah, I guess so. I got my PJs on still. Will, do you wear your pajamas to the office? I don't. I could. It's so fast. It's a five-minute drive now from my new place.
• Ryan Coogler — Person · Referenced filmmaker · 2 mentions · first at 23:22
  Cited as an example of signature-director authorship and as a proven track record that reduces studio risk when greenlighting original work.
  But Ryan, when you're dealing with like Ryan comes to the table trailing, like two billion in box office. Like he Yes, you could call it IP, but he created the Creed franchise out of his head, and.
• Ryan Cougler — Person · 2 mentions · first at 23:22
  But Ryan, when you're dealing with like Ryan comes to the table trailing, like two billion in box office. Like he Yes, you could call it IP, but he created the Creed franchise out of his head, and.
• David Fincher — Person · 2 mentions · first at 31:42
  Some of the more specific creative voices behind these movies, people like Paul Thomas Anderson and David Fincher, etc., etc.
• James Gun — Person · 2 mentions · first at 47:20
  Slyther and started with his lowbudget movies. And he's really unique and I think DC's in great hands with the two of them. we've seen an early cut of Superman, and I don't…
• Aaron Sorcin — Person · 2 mentions · first at 52:56
  Right? Or Social Network like I want to see a [ __ ] movie about it was incredible. I loved Moneyball the film we had the I mean Aaron Sorcin who's one of the if not the best…
• Donna Langley — Person · 1 mention · first at 34:13
  It's and there's no blanket statement for Hollywood. Like it's so it's so it's so different. our friend Donna Langley at Universal is different than Tom Rothman at Sony. We do…
• Antipater (Antipot), son of Jason — Person · 1 mention · first at 35:17
  My love I mean Jason knows this cuz Jason and I have produced a movie together and work together. My first love will always be producing because I just love the grind and being on set as.
• Positive Sean — Person · 1 mention · first at 43:58
  Porns together. Think about that. What do you think about that's over now, right Sean? That's over now, right? Sean still going. But I think com I think you know a lot of a lot…
• Brad Pitt — Person · 1 mention · first at 57:16
  Another trailer. It's so unique and so of the moment. I think that's going to really blow people away. we have Brad Pitt's F1 movie. It's just fun. Big Jerry Brookheimimer, Joe…
• Bill Hader — Person · 6 mentions
  And direct like Jason Baitman, Bill Hater is a director that we hope to have making movies at the studio. Bill's great director, too. Yeah, we have Emerald Finel's movie, Withering.
• Timothy Shalamé — Person · Referenced actor / example of new movie stars · 2 mentions · first at 20:05
  Cited as an example of younger audiences creating new movie stars; used to discuss star power vs IP/premise in modern theatrical marketing.
  Generation kind of want to wants they still want to create their own movie stars. So you have people like Timothy Shalamé and Austin Butler, Florence Q, like basically any…
• Jason Baitman — Person · 2 mentions · first at 23:28
  And direct like Jason Baitman, Bill Hater is a director that we hope to have making movies at the studio. Bill's great director, too. Yeah, we have Emerald Finel's movie, Withering.
• Mark Zuckerberg — Person · 2 mentions · first at 53:45
  We're running here? And can you back up things that you're alleging through documentation? on social network, we had the transcripts of the lawsuit that Ed Savverin brought…
• Danny DeVito — Person · Referenced actor/producer (social circle + industry history) · 1 mention · first at 10:20
  Mentioned both socially (Sunday dinner) and professionally as part of Jersey Films’ producing history referenced by De Luca.
  I was there as an intern in 85 from NYU. So I've been at New for a long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many…
• Michael Shamburg — Person · 1 mention · first at 10:23
  I was there as an intern in 85 from NYU. So I've been at New for a long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many…
• Austin Butler — Person · 1 mention · first at 20:07
  Generation kind of want to wants they still want to create their own movie stars. So you have people like Timothy Shalamé and Austin Butler, Florence Q, like basically any…
• Timothy Shalamé — Person · Referenced actor (example of new movie star) · 1 mention · first at 20:07
  Cited as part of the emerging generation of movie stars; used to discuss whether stars still open films versus concept/IP.
  Still want to create their own movie stars. So you have people like Timothy Shalamé and Austin Butler, Florence Q, like basically any anyone on the red carpet for Barbie or Dune is an example of, young audiences creating new movie.
• Timothy Shalamé — Person · 1 mention · first at 20:07
  Generation kind of want to wants they still want to create their own movie stars. So you have people like Timothy Shalamé and Austin Butler, Florence Q, like basically any…
• Jordan Peele — Person · 1 mention · first at 23:19
  They can tell that like a Jordan Peele or Ryan Jordan Peele or Ryan Cougler or Greta Gerwig or Chris Nolan, Paul Thomas Anderson, they could sense authorship or the lack of it. They really can. Jason.
• Chris Nolan — Person · 1 mention · first at 23:24
  They can tell that like a Jordan Peele or Ryan Jordan Peele or Ryan Cougler or Greta Gerwig or Chris Nolan, Paul Thomas Anderson, they could sense authorship or the lack of it. They really can. Jason.
• Greta Gerwig — Person · Referenced filmmaker (example of auteur/director brand) · 1 mention · first at 23:24
  Used as an example of recognizable authorship that motivates audiences to see films theatrically; also implicitly tied to Barbie’s success discussed in the episode.
  They can tell that like a Jordan Peele or Ryan Jordan Peele or Ryan Cougler or Greta Gerwig or Chris Nolan, Paul Thomas Anderson, they could sense authorship or the lack of it. They really can. Jason.
• Mary Parent — Person · 1 mention · first at 34:34
  Donna. She was an assistant to a manager at the time and she you know and she and another executive Mary Parent who went on to do great things and is a god running legendary…
• Josh Gro — Person · 1 mention · first at 34:38
  Donna. She was an assistant to a manager at the time and she you know and she and another executive Mary Parent who went on to do great things and is a god running legendary…
• Brener — Person · 1 mention · first at 35:06
  Of New Line, it's a pretty interesting slate of people now that I think about all the people. Brener is still there with you, right? And then you've got Toby Emer was obviously…
• Toby Emer — Person · 1 mention · first at 35:08
  Slate of people now that I think about all the people. Brener is still there with you, right? And then you've got Toby Emer was obviously Toby. And then you have our buddy Kent…
• Kent Alterman — Person · 1 mention · first at 35:13
  With you, right? And then you've got Toby Emer was obviously Toby. And then you have our buddy Kent Alterman who is there who we're still Jason and I still play golf with. We love Kent. And I'm just thinking wow, that was a what an.
• Kevin Feige — Person · 1 mention · first at 38:57
  And I knew the Black Panther character, but it's not like that was one of the top 10 characters. Ryan, created that franchise also again out of his mind. obviously under the…
• Zack Kger — Person · 1 mention · first at 39:47
  When you can look at someone's pedigree, whether they're established like Ryan or a new voice coming up, like we just made a movie with this guy Zack Kger who did the movie…
• Jen Lawrence — Person · 1 mention · first at 44:26
  Tik Tok in short form. However I do think that theatrical audience is there. I thought Jen Lawrence's movie No Hard Feelings was a good shot at it. And I do think one for Tom…
• Brenda Tracy — Person · 1 mention · first at 45:23
  Let's take a shot with a Well, we had Blum we had Blum on here a while ago and Jason Blum because he Yeah, Tracy knows cuz she heard it. and we had Blum on here because he…
• Jason Blum — Person · 1 mention · first at 45:23
  Let's take a shot with a Well, we had Blum we had Blum on here a while ago and Jason Blum because he Yeah, Tracy knows cuz she heard it. and we had Blum on here because he.
• Peter Saffron — Person · 1 mention · first at 47:24
  Know, one of the things you guys get to oversee is DC and James Gun and Peter Saffron in there.
• David Zazlav — Person · 1 mention · first at 47:30
  And what tell us what you're excited about coming out of there. Well, we actually we have to stipulate DC reports directly to David Zazlav. We don't we don't oversee it. but we…

Books & papers

• Moneyball — Book · 6 mentions · first at 7:37
  Behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have…
• Captain Phillips — Book · 4 mentions · first at 7:37
  Behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have…
• Barbie — Book · 4 mentions · first at 7:45
  Gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Wonka, Dune Part Two, and Barbie. Let's find out how these two are able to bring us so much incredible entertainment.
• Superman — Book · 3 mentions · first at 20:51
  Idea and that provocative, audacious kind of concept to break through the pre-existing IP like Superman.
• Barbarian — Book · 2 mentions · first at 39:49
  A new voice coming up, like we just made a movie with this guy Zack Kger who did the movie Barbarian, and I think he's an amazing movie. Wasn't that an amazing movie? Totally.…
• Teen Titans — Book · 2 mentions · first at 58:10
  Yeah, it's back. I think I feel like I sunk you guys with Teen Titans Go to the Movies, which is actually a great movie if you've ever seen it. Not from the It's a phenomenal movie. Teen Titans Go to the Movies is I love that movie.
• Birdman — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:31
  The world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain…
• The Big Short — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:31
  The world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain…
• The Revenant — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:34
  Individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night…
• The Social Network — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:34
  Individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night…
• Austin Powers — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:37
  Behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have…
• Beetlejuice — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:43
  Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Wonka, Dune Part Two, and Barbie. Let's find out how these two are able to bring us so much incredible entertainment.
• Dune: Part Two — Book · 1 mention · first at 7:45
  Gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Wonka, Dune Part Two, and Barbie. Let's find out how these two are able to bring us so much incredible entertainment.
• Pulp Fiction — Book · 1 mention · first at 10:18
  Long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many great films in the '90s. Danny Devito and Michael Shamburg and Stair. Yep. Yep.
• Long Legs — Book · 1 mention · first at 25:35
  Streaming but theatrical. But I think, when you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or Everything Everywhere All at Once from the Neons and the A24s, they're…
• Everything Everywhere All at Once — Book · 1 mention · first at 25:38
  When you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or Everything Everywhere All at Once from the Neons and the A24s, they're not they're not tent poles. They're not…
• Oppenheimer — Book · 1 mention · first at 25:55
  Minecraft and then the next weekend sinners or at Universal, Oppenheimer and then We had Barbie, there's there's I think that people are up for the theatrical experience and…
• Talk to Me — Book · 1 mention · first at 40:04
  When you can look at someone's previous work. also another great horror movie that came out, Talk to Me, by these two directors who started on a YouTube channel, Rocka in…
• American Pie — Book · 1 mention · first at 46:20
  Comes out and pro proves it wrong. I remember the R-rated comedy was dead and then American Pie came out and suddenly everybody had to have an R-rated comedy. Hollywood can be…
• Slyther — Book · 1 mention · first at 48:07
  Know, I've been I used to chase James as a producer, when he did Slyther and started with his lowbudget movies. And he's really unique and I think DC's in great hands with the…
• Schindler's List — Book · 1 mention · first at 53:06
  Greats on social network and he co-wrote Moneyball with Steve Zelian who's who wrote Schindler's List I mean these are incredible screenwriters and they were able to find the…
• World Trade Center — Book · 1 mention · first at 55:22
  The life rights of people and you bring them into the tent like films just I worked on World Trade Center. We had John and Will's rights on Aaron Brochovich, Aaron's rights on…
• Freedom Writers — Book · 1 mention · first at 55:28
  John and Will's rights on Aaron Brochovich, Aaron's rights on this film Freedom Writers years ago of this teacher Aaron Grul. It was based on you know we had the kids involved.…
• Final Destination 6 — Book · 1 mention · first at 56:44
  Final Destination 6 is a fantastic theatrical experience. Amazing. It is so much fun. Incredible. It is so much fun.
• Weapons — Book · 1 mention · first at 56:55
  And then we have Zach's movie weapons which is his followup to Barbarian which is completely original and again an incredible audience response and Paul Thomas Anderson has made a movie with.
• Teen Titans Go! To the Movies — Book · 1 mention · first at 58:10
  Yeah, it's back. I think I feel like I sunk you guys with Teen Titans Go to the Movies, which is actually a great movie if you've ever seen it. Not from the It's a phenomenal movie. Teen Titans Go to the Movies is I love that movie.
• Cat in the Hat — Book · 1 mention · first at 58:45
  Yeah, we're really excited about the new animation label. Yeah, our first movie next year is Cat in the Hat with hater as the cat. So, really excited for that.
• Withering Heights — Book · 1 mention · first at 59:00
  Have making movies at the studio. Bill's great director, too. Yeah, we have Emerald Finel's movie, Withering Heights, next year. We have Maggie Gyllenhaal's movie, The Bride…
• The Princess Bride — Book · 1 mention · first at 59:03
  Emerald Finel's movie, Withering Heights, next year. We have Maggie Gyllenhaal's movie, The Bride, next year. So, we're really we're really jazzed about, the eclectic slate we're trying to build here with the existing IP and, filmmaker.
• Boogie Nights — Book · 1 mention
• Erin Brockovich — Book · 1 mention
• Seven — Book · 1 mention
• Superman (2025 film) — Book · 1 mention
• The Lego Movie — Book · 1 mention
• Wonka — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

• Warner Brothers — Company · Business focus · 6 mentions · first at 7:54
  Co-chairs and CEOs of Warner Brothers Motion Picture Group discuss the company's film slate and industry insights.
• New Line — Company · 8 mentions · first at 9:58
• DC — Company · 1 mention · first at 47:30
• Tik Tok — Company · 5 mentions · first at 28:03
  That? Is that true? And are people is that really picking up steam? Yeah, I personally think you know YouTube and Tik Tok and some of the platforms are really about usergenerated content and I think that I think that I think that's.
• YouTube — Company · 4 mentions · first at 40:09
  I would never I would never say that I know better. I did think though like YouTube kind of has that base covered even then in terms of and I and you know I thought what people…
• Newline — Company · Referenced company · 3 mentions · first at 9:58
  Mentioned as the company where Michael Duca started his career, highlighting its significance in the entertainment industry.
  Who went on to do great things and is a god running legendary for Josh Gro new line it was a great kind of you know training ground for a lot of people in the '9s and you met…
• Universal — Company · 3 mentions · first at 25:53
  It's and there's no blanket statement for Hollywood. Like it's so it's so it's so different. our friend Donna Langley at Universal is different than Tom Rothman at Sony. We do…
• Netflix, Inc. — Company · Competitor · 3 mentions · first at 29:57
  Discussed in the context of streaming wars and its impact on the entertainment industry.
  Navigating the pandemic and then, the so-called streaming wars, which were never really a war. Netflix won that war before it even started.
• A24 — Company · Competitor · 17 mentions
  Mentioned as a competitor producing high-quality films.
  Things that will make something not streaming but theatrical. But I think, when you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or Everything Everywhere All at Once…
• Sony — Company · Competitor · 10 mentions
  Mentioned as a competitor in the entertainment industry.
  It's and there's no blanket statement for Hollywood. Like it's so it's so it's so different. our friend Donna Langley at Universal is different than Tom Rothman at Sony. We do…
• Jersey Films — Company · 2 mentions · first at 10:17
  I was there as an intern in 85 from NYU. So I've been at New for a long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many…
• Neon — Company · 2 mentions
  Things that will make something not streaming but theatrical. But I think, when you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or Everything Everywhere All at Once…
• Pixar — Company · 2 mentions
  It needs a storyteller in charge. we were really impressed with Pixar. They brought Pete Doctor who's a filmmaker in from the field to be chief content officer and preside over…
• SiriusXM — Company · 2 mentions
• Warner Brothers Motion Picture Group — Company · 1 mention · first at 7:50
  Please meet the co-chairs and CEOs of Warner Brothers Motion Picture Group, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca. What? On the smart list. Good morning. Good morning.
• Rocka Rocka — Company · 1 mention · first at 40:09
  When you can look at someone's previous work. also another great horror movie that came out, Talk to Me, by these two directors who started on a YouTube channel, Rocka in…
• Major League Baseball — Company · 1 mention · first at 55:08
  Going on a PR jihad that oh this was this is ru my reputation. Yeah, Moneyball was actually great cuz we made our deal with Major League Baseball and they were the gatekeepers…
• Warner Animation — Company · 1 mention · first at 57:55
  Oh, yeah. Will we launched Warner Animation to stand on the shoulders of Lego Movie and Lego Batman? Oh, well, you're I guess not included in that though huh?
• Quibby — Company · 2 mentions · first at 48:58
  Yeah, it's so true. What do you guys think about like remember Quibby when Quibby came out? I which I may have may remember. You promised to never bring up Quibby again. What are you doing? Wait.
• Paramount — Company · Referenced company · 2 mentions · first at 10:54
  Mentioned as a company where Pam Abdi worked, showcasing her career trajectory.
  We had a chance I we switched jobs, many times. I went from being an exec to being a producer. She became an exec at Paramount. I produced for her.
• Legendary — Company · 1 mention · first at 34:38
  Donna. She was an assistant to a manager at the time and she you know and she and another executive Mary Parent who went on to do great things and is a god running legendary…
• The New York Times Magazine — Company · 1 mention · first at 4:52
  And then I've got I've got young Denny too. So Denny's been he's a little bit on New York Times too. So he's like up early and you know anyway it's all good. These are great…
• Lucasfilm — Company · 1 mention · first at 22:07
  It's pretty it's it's almost impossible even for Disney which owns those four giant labels of you know Lucasfilm and Pixar and Marvel. you can't have a 20 10 pole slate.…
• Rocka Rocka — Company · 1 mention · first at 40:09
  That came out, Talk to Me, by these two directors who started on a YouTube channel, Rocka in Australia. wow. Well, you can when you can look at people's previous work, it gives…
• Major League Baseball — Company · 1 mention · first at 55:08
  This is ru my reputation. Yeah, Moneyball was actually great cuz we made our deal with Major League Baseball and they were the gatekeepers and all we had to do was make sure…
• Warner Animation Group — Company · 1 mention · first at 58:04
  No, we're gonna have you back. Warner Animation Group is back. It's back.
• Hasbro — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:02:03
  What was it about the Hasbro the doll?
• Blumhouse Productions — Company · 1 mention
• DC — Company · 1 mention
• Legendary Entertainment — Company · 1 mention
• Neon — Company · 1 mention
• New Line Cinema — Company · 1 mention
• NYU — Company · 1 mention
• Paramount Pictures — Company · 1 mention
• Universal Pictures — Company · 1 mention
• Warner Bros. Discovery — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• Moneyball — Product · 6 mentions · first at 7:37
• Barbie — Product · Case study · 4 mentions · first at 7:45
  Highlighted as a successful film from Warner Brothers, demonstrating the company's ability to produce blockbuster hits.
  Gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Wonka, Dune Part Two, and Barbie. Let's find out how these two are able to bring us so much incredible entertainment.
• Barbie — Product · 4 mentions · first at 7:45
• Sinners — Product · Case study · 5 mentions · first at 22:26
  Highlighted as a successful film from Warner Brothers, demonstrating the company's ability to produce original content.
• Sinners — Product · 5 mentions · first at 22:26
  Theatrically. And then on our side of the street when you have, something as d, as diverse as Minecraft and then the next weekend sinners or at Universal, Oppenheimer and then We had Barbie, there's there's I think that people.
• Captain Phillips — Product · 4 mentions · first at 7:37
  Hijackers are saying to Captain Phillips. And when you can dramatize because I did Moneyball, Captain Phillips, and Social Network all based on true stories. And the neat thing…
• Superman — Product · Case study · 3 mentions · first at 20:51
  Discussed as an upcoming project under DC, with excitement about its potential success and the direction by James Gun.
  Idea and that provocative, audacious kind of concept to break through the pre-existing IP like Superman.
• Superman — Product · 3 mentions · first at 20:51
  To watch him in that movie. And then, again, as a comic book geek, I'm really up for I think I cannot wait for this for the world to see James' new Superman. That's great. I'm…
• Minecraft — Product · Case study · 3 mentions · first at 25:51
  Mentioned as part of Warner Brothers' diverse slate, appealing to different audiences.
  The street when you have, something as d, as diverse as Minecraft and then the next weekend sinners or at Universal, Oppenheimer and then We had Barbie, there's there's I think that people are up for the theatrical experience and.
• Minecraft — Product · 3 mentions · first at 25:51
  Success what this what I don't know when this is going to air, but Minecraft and Sinners double barrel, blockbusters coming out of the gate this month. And so, just…
• The Social Network — Product · Case study · 1 mention · first at 7:34
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by Warner Brothers under the leadership of Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  We're running here? And can you back up things that you're alleging through documentation? on social network, we had the transcripts of the lawsuit that Ed Savverin brought…
• Moneyball — Product · Referenced work · 6 mentions · first at 7:34
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, showcasing their expertise.
  Individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night…
• Wonka — Product · Referenced work · 6 mentions
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, showcasing their expertise.
  Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as…
• Captain Phillips — Product · Referenced work · 4 mentions · first at 7:34
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, showcasing their expertise.
  Individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night…
• Lego Batman — Product · 2 mentions · first at 31:12
  And I'm really excited for some of the stuff we have in post. we started we relaunched in the animation.
• Barbarian — Product · Case study · 2 mentions · first at 39:49
  Mentioned as a successful horror film that showcases the studio's ability to innovate within the genre.
  When you can look at someone's pedigree, whether they're established like Ryan or a new voice coming up, like we just made a movie with this guy Zack Kger who did the movie…
• Boogie Nights — Product · 2 mentions
• Birdman — Product · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 7:31
  Mentioned as a film produced by Warner Brothers.
  The world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain…
• Birdman — Product · 1 mention · first at 7:31
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• The Big Short — Product · Case study · 1 mention · first at 7:31
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by Warner Brothers under the leadership of Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• The Revenant — Product · Case study · 1 mention · first at 7:34
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by Warner Brothers under the leadership of Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• Austin Powers — Product · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 7:37
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, showcasing their expertise.
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• Boogie Night 7 — Product · 1 mention · first at 7:39
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• Beetlejuice — Product · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 7:43
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, showcasing their expertise.
  Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as…
• Dune Part Two — Product · Case study · 1 mention · first at 7:45
  Another successful film from Warner Brothers, showcasing the company's ability to produce high-quality sequels.
  Florence Q, like basically any anyone on the red carpet for Barbie or Dune is an example of, young audiences creating new movie stars. Brought audiences to that is the concept before the star, right? Yeah.
• Dune Part Two — Product · 1 mention · first at 7:45
  Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as…
• Pulp Fiction — Product · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 10:17
  Mentioned as a significant film produced by Jersey Films, where Pam Abdi worked.
  NYU. So I've been at New for a long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many great films in the '90s. Danny Devito and Michael Shamburg and Stair. Yep. Yep.
• Pulp Fiction — Product · 1 mention · first at 10:18
  I was there as an intern in 85 from NYU. So I've been at New for a long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many…
• Long Legs — Product · 1 mention · first at 25:35
  Things that will make something not streaming but theatrical. But I think, when you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or Everything Everywhere All at Once…
• Everything Everywhere All at Once — Product · 1 mention · first at 25:38
  Things that will make something not streaming but theatrical. But I think, when you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or Everything Everywhere All at Once…
• Oppenheimer — Product · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 25:55
  Mentioned as a successful film from Universal, highlighting industry diversity.
  Minecraft and then the next weekend sinners or at Universal, Oppenheimer and then We had Barbie, there's there's I think that people are up for the theatrical experience and…
• Black Panther — Product · 1 mention · first at 38:40
  It IP, but he created the Creed franchise out of his head, and he Black Panther, I'm a comic book fan. I'm I'm a I'm a huge comic book collector still and geek fan and I knew the Black Panther character, but it's not like that was.
• seven — Product · 1 mention · first at 39:20
  Hedge against the unknown is sometimes you can point to someone's track record, like when we hired David Fincher to do seven. I happen to thought I thought Alien 3 was a beautiful movie. It didn't it didn't work as big as they wanted to.
• Alien 3 — Product · 1 mention · first at 39:24
  You can point to someone's track record, like when we hired David Fincher to do seven. I happen to thought I thought Alien 3 was a beautiful movie. It didn't it didn't work as big as they wanted to commercially, but there was tremendous.
• Talk to Me — Product · Case study · 1 mention · first at 40:04
  Mentioned as a successful horror film that demonstrates the studio's ability to identify and support new talent.
  We were lucky to get his next movie. when you can look at someone's previous work. also another great horror movie that came out, Talk to Me, by these two directors who started…
• No Hard Feelings — Product · 1 mention · first at 44:26
  Tik Tok in short form. However I do think that theatrical audience is there. I thought Jen Lawrence's movie No Hard Feelings was a good shot at it. And I do think one for Tom…
• Schindler's List — Product · 1 mention · first at 53:06
  Of the if not the best working screenwriter one certainly one of the greats on social network and he co-wrote Moneyball with Steve Zelian who's who wrote Schindler's List I…
• World Trade Center — Product · 1 mention · first at 55:22
  The life rights of people and you bring them into the tent like films just I worked on World Trade Center. We had John and Will's rights on Aaron Brochovich, Aaron's rights on…
• Aaron Brochovich — Product · 1 mention · first at 55:23
  Bring them into the tent like films just I worked on World Trade Center. We had John and Will's rights on Aaron Brochovich, Aaron's rights on this film Freedom Writers years…
• Freedom Writers — Product · 1 mention · first at 55:28
  John and Will's rights on Aaron Brochovich, Aaron's rights on this film Freedom Writers years ago of this teacher Aaron Grul. It was based on you know we had the kids involved.…

Concepts & topics

• Artificial Intelligence — Concept · 1 mention
  People were not able to predict what it would be in the same way that we can't now with things like AI etc. And of course we're going to look back in 10 years and say my god we…
• Stoicism — Concept · 1 mention
  And they don't care about you. And by the way, by the way, I was with my I was talking to my therapist the other day, and it turns out that humans can withstand so much more, too.
• Producer — Concept · 7 mentions · first at 10:54
  We had a chance I we switched jobs, many times. I went from being an exec to being a producer. She became an exec at Paramount. I produced for her.
• Executive — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 10:58
  Then when I became an executive again after producing at MGM, I invited Pam to work with me and then we've been an executive team ever since. H it's just like but so then again for the for.
• Aversion therapy — Concept · 1 mention · first at 16:01
  Panic. She goes, Ride as many elevators as you possibly can. Right. It's like aversion therapy. It does help. I accidentally stumbled into aversion therapy because my ex-wife…
• Cinecon — Concept · 1 mention
• Intellectual Property (IP) — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• California — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at 4:02
  Mentioned as the location where the podcast is recorded and where Warner Brothers is headquartered.
  It's all good. These are great problems to have. But it's nice being in California. Nice to see everybody. I'm sorry about last night too. I was going to grab a bite of steak and I forgot I had a dinner cuz our friend's dog died.
• New York, New York — Place · 2 mentions · first at 4:52
  And then I've got I've got young Denny too. So Denny's been he's a little bit on New York Times too. So he's like up early and you know anyway it's all good. These are great…
• Jersey — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at 10:17
  Mentioned as Pam Abdi's hometown.
  NYU. So I've been at New for a long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many great films in the '90s. Danny Devito and Michael Shamburg and Stair. Yep. Yep.
• Brooklyn — Place · 1 mention · first at 10:41
  Jersey Films produced a couple of movies for New Line. That's where I met Pam. We became best friends. She's from Jersey.
• LaGuardia — Place · 1 mention · first at 15:33
  Think he told me he did a month of flights and he'd go to the he'd go to like LaGuardia he lives in New York and they'd pick a they'd look at the board and they'd pick a flight…
• Cleveland — Place · 1 mention · first at 15:39
  Like LaGuardia he lives in New York and they'd pick a they'd look at the board and they'd pick a flight and they'd go they'd fly to Cleveland then they'd fly to Houston then…
• Houston — Place · 1 mention · first at 15:41
  Like LaGuardia he lives in New York and they'd pick a they'd look at the board and they'd pick a flight and they'd go they'd fly to Cleveland then they'd fly to Houston then…
• Fort Worth, Texas — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at 16:04
  Mentioned as the location where Michael Duca's ex-wife lives, providing personal context.
  Aversion therapy. It does help. I accidentally stumbled into aversion therapy because my ex-wife lives in Fort Worth, Texas with my children and I travel there every weekend, you know.
• Australia — Place · 1 mention · first at 40:11
  When you can look at someone's previous work. also another great horror movie that came out, Talk to Me, by these two directors who started on a YouTube channel, Rocka in…
• Berlin — Place · 1 mention · first at 42:51
  Really fun to like get a shared experience of my 20s and of Berlin for me. That's Berlin. Twice a year. I allow myself. Twice a year. We'll be right back. And back to the show. but to like everybody be in.
• Miami — Place · 1 mention
  They'd pick a they'd look at the board and they'd pick a flight and they'd go they'd fly to Cleveland then they'd fly to Houston then they'd fly to Miami and he did that for…
• Pandemic — Event · 6 mentions · first at 23:02
  Predicted back then in the early 2000 what it was going to become and I think that sort of fear so you know as you said that you lost DVDs however everybody was so nervous at…
• Dollywood — Place · Setting · 4 mentions
  Mentioned as the location where the entertainment industry is based.
  Audience in the theater to see it. So I don't find it difficult. I actually find it invigorating. Well, that's really funny, Pam. That's really funny because you often hear…
• NYU — Place · Setting · 4 mentions
  Mentioned as the university where Michael Duca attended, providing career context.
• Germany — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at 10:26
  Mentioned as a location where some people moved.
  Many of my people moved to Germany. This is an ongoing dumbass [ __ ] some Italian guy in the back wings that likes to comment. Sorry, push through it. So, that's where I met Pam. Pam.
• Hollywood — Place · 2 mentions · first at 33:58
  Audience in the theater to see it. So I don't find it difficult. I actually find it invigorating. Well, that's really funny, Pam. That's really funny because you often hear…
• Super Bowl — Event · 1 mention
  And Tik Tok. By the way, think about people used to go to theaters to watch porns together. Think about that. What do you think about that's over now, right Sean? That's over now, right? Sean.

Media & podcasts

• Barbie — Media · Referenced work · 4 mentions · first at 7:45
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as…
• Dune Part Two — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 7:45
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as…
• Moneyball — Media · Referenced work · 6 mentions · first at 7:31
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• Sinners — Media · Referenced work · 5 mentions · first at 22:26
  Mentioned as a successful film from Warner Brothers, part of their diversified slate.
  Making a billion dollars globally, but they are pulling in audiences theatrically. And then on our side of the street when you have, something as d, as diverse as Minecraft and then the next weekend sinners or at Universal, you know,.
• Captain Phillips — Media · Referenced work · 4 mentions · first at 7:31
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• Superman — Media · Referenced work · 3 mentions · first at 20:51
  Mentioned as an upcoming film from DC, overseen by James Gun and Peter Saffron.
  Movies. And he's really unique and I think DC's in great hands with the two of them. we've seen an early cut of Superman, and I don't want to I don't want to jump the I don't…
• Minecraft — Media · Referenced work · 3 mentions · first at 25:51
  Mentioned as a successful film from Warner Brothers, part of their diversified slate.
  Making a billion dollars globally, but they are pulling in audiences theatrically. And then on our side of the street when you have, something as d, as diverse as Minecraft and then the next weekend sinners or at Universal, you know,.
• Birdman — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 7:31
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by the guests, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca.
  Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant…
• Pulp Fiction — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 10:18
  Mentioned as one of the successful films produced by Jersey Films, where Pam Abdi worked.
  I was there as an intern in 85 from NYU. So I've been at New for a long time and Pam worked for this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many…
• Final Destination 6 — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 56:44
  Mentioned as an upcoming film from New Line, a division of Warner Brothers.
  Final Destination 6 is a fantastic theatrical experience. Amazing. It is so much fun. Incredible. It is so much fun.
• Teen Titans Go to the Movies — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 58:10
  Mentioned as a successful film from Warner Animation Group.
  Yeah, it's back. I think I feel like I sunk you guys with Teen Titans Go to the Movies, which is actually a great movie if you've ever seen it. Not from the It's a phenomenal movie. Teen Titans.
• Cat in the Hat — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 58:45
  Mentioned as an upcoming film from Warner Animation Group.
  Play pretty Yeah, we're really excited about the new animation label. Yeah, our first movie next year is Cat in the Hat with hater as the cat. So, really excited for that.
• Joe Rogan Experience — Media · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:06 Guys, breathe. Big inh, big out. Okay. Okay. Okay. Big in. One more. Big in. Through the nose. Yeah. And out. Are you just really Get into your sitsbones. Okay. Are you feeling a little bit relaxed, both of you guys? A little bit. Yeah. Let me just tell you this. I took some of the smart list money. I put it in Bitcoin. Wait, what? Will. It's going to be fine. Welcome to all new

0:44 smart less. I'm at the office today, so I'm not Wait. Whoa. But I've got a I've got a new um What office? You don't have a [ __ ] office? I have an office I've had for a couple years over here. You don't need to talk all calm like it's no big deal. Let's talk about it. You're really impressed with offices. Yeah, I remember the one we had you never showed up in. Yeah. You know why? Cuz my dad spent 50 years working in an office. And I'm an artist, man. I'm not playing part of the business. I'm not playing businessman. Oh, let me go in and Are you storytelling? Are you working out how to storytell? I'm an artist, though.

1:23 Okay. I'm an artist. Wait. Truly. Truly. Honestly. How long have you had this? I've never heard about this. A couple years. Do you want me to turn the camera around so you can see? Wait, is this where the beast lives? Yeah, this is where the beast lives. Hang on. Who's What's the beast? I guess we'll wait. Listener, just wait. Will's got to Oh, no. He doesn't need to bring in It's not show and tell. Oh. Oh. Oh, he's got the leather. He's got like the bachelor leather. Look at how unused that meeting space is. What are you talking about, JB? You You forget I grew up in a serious world. You grew up, so now you're playing Makebelie office manager.

1:58 You've got a company and Yeah, but there's people in my office. You've got an empty meeting space. Dude, it doesn't matter. It's like It's like those people who used to go like, "We're going to have all these platforms for content and we're going to create content." Like, what's the content? You can have anybody can have a [ __ ] office. Sean could have an office for Christ's sake. He does. He's talking to us from It's just off the kitchen, though. And by the way, this is true. Ricky's bed is there below his feet. Ricky's Ricky's right there on the floor.

2:32 Hilarious. Hey, so uh how is everybody's night? Everybody uh so listeners, we just uh or listener, sorry, I was a little ambitious there. I know. God, what are you doing? We uh we had we had dinner again. Our Sunday dinner. We haven't had long been months. Months. Yeah. like two or three months. Yeah, that uh that was fun. It was good to see everybody. It was really good. It was really good. It was really good to see Danny De's the great Dan D. He's the best. Glad that uh that he and Don uh have are part of our regular crew now.

3:10 That's really It's nice. It's nice. Did everybody sleep okay today? Yeah, we're we're a little tight tie. Yeah, I guess so. I got my PJs on still. Will, do you wear your pajamas to the office? I don't. I I could. It's so fast. It's a five-minute drive now from my new place. It's great. I bet they were very I bet they were very happy to see you. You've not been in there for a while. Fresh back from your film. I haven't been here in a minute. They were happy to see me. And uh yeah, it was good. I you know, I was up super early. I'm still a little jet-lagged and still coming down. My my closet is all messed up from late nights and stuff. So, I don't know. Just one of those. I woke up the other morning at like 4:45 and I got a coffee and then I was sitting out watching outside and I saw this huge crazy light, you know, being followed by sort of mist. It was kind of cutting through the mist, but

3:59 the light was coming from behind. I looked it up and it turns out it was a rocket being launched. Yeah. From uh just up the coast here in California. UFO. UFO. It was pretty pretty spectacular to see at like, you know, 5:30 a.m. Yeah. And um so I've been feeling just a little spacey just kind of coming back you're still on Eastern time so you're still getting up and I'll bet you were getting up at uh five in the morning over there which was two in the morning here. So we were doing 5 in the morning like like Monday Tuesdays and then immediately switching to nights and we did that for about three weeks in a row. The little thing that I did Jay I was I was there like you know we had night shoots and it was two in the morning. Sean was in it as well. Yeah.

4:38 But like 2 in the morning I'm like okay bye everybody. I got to go home and I look back I'm like there's Willie still going till like 5 6 in the morning. It was unbelievable. Of course you and uh and then I've got I've got uh young Denny too. So Denny's been uh he's a little bit on New York Times too. So he's like up early and you know anyway it's all good. These are these are great problems to have. But it's nice being in California. Nice to see everybody. I'm sorry about last night too. I was going to grab a bite of steak and I I forgot I had a dinner cuz our friend's dog died.

5:09 Okay. So JB, I'm going to walk you through this cuz it a little bit felt like a lie. No, not at all. Not at all. Okay. Well, hang on. And and I don't want to meet I guess it looks like we have a double guest coming up, but which we cuz we got two squares, but Sorry, guests. Sorry. Guests plural. Jesus. Um and then I want to I want and then I want to ask you uh uh if you've locked down your car, and we don't need to say what kind it is, but Okay. Yes. Yes, I have. That's that's a locker. Oh, that's nice. I know. Bobby Big Deals at the [ __ ] office. Got himself a real nice car this weekend. Bobby Big deal. Jesus Christ. I know. I know. I don't want to Let's not go too deep.

5:49 So, we're going to go. But, but I said to Sean yesterday, I talked to him in the morning. We were talking about something and I go, "Oh, you know what? I think that the the big boys like have stuff after school and they have, you know, music and and athletic stuff." So, I said, "You want to go get a dinner? uh grab a early dinner. He goes, "Yes." And then he text me. He goes, "I forgot our friends, we made plans with our friends." I'm like, "Yeah, that is it felt a little excusy. Do you know what I mean?" No, I swear to God. Cuz the initial thing was like, "Yes, of course I want to go to jar and have a steak with you." Didn't you pile on the excuse just now and say that an animal had died as well? It didn't pile on. But well, he had a friend of theirs and Carrie, you know, Kevin, and they said he said that they lost their dog. I said, "Well, maybe we can help them find find it. Oh.

6:36 Uh-huh. Which is a ripoff of an old Nor McDonald joke, by the way. So, wait. So, they lost their dog and they needed you and Scotty to sit around them and and and feel better. You know, the doggy's like a family member. JB, have you tried this? This Have you tried this bar? Yeah, I have. Not bad. It's pretty good, right? Yeah. You can mention it. Maybe get some free ones. Okay. You know, I'm good for six bucks. I'll wait till you take a bite. The Bearbell The Bearbell bars. They're really good. All right, listener.

7:04 Today we don't have some fishy, flashy, fancy celeb type. Uh-uh. Not today. Today we have got not one but two people who make the flashy fancy types. They are two of the most important people in the industry today. Period. Entertainment industry. Okay. Okay. Individually the only industry in the world. Okay. I All right. But individually, individually they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7. Together, oh my gosh, they have combined to bring us such films as Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Wonka, Dune Part Two, and Barbie. Let's find out how these two are able to bring us so much incredible entertainment.

7:50 Please meet the co-chairs and CEOs of Warner Brothers Motion Picture Group, Pam Abdi and Michael Duca. What? On the smart list. Good morning. Good morning. Great. We're going to have a couple of smart folks come on and talk to us for [ __ ] once. This is cool. I had to hold my laughter in. Oh my god. I want to say Pam's still at home. Mike, you're at the office. I am. I'm in the office. You were both in the office. We have We have two offices. We have a We have an office we share and then we have a spillover office. We need to do solo things. Pam's in the spillover office.

8:24 These are people with two office. an olive ornament. You only have two now in the in the shared office. Do you have one of those his and her desks where you could you're looking at each other? No, we thought about it like like an old diagonal. We are like an old Howard Hawks movie like a Ben Heck screenplay where the the you know desks in the newsroom are together. But we went we went uh I think a more realistic we're caddyy cornered. We did have that for a second. Jason Jason and I had an office for a while for a couple years where we faced each other and he would always complain as you can just tell this morning that I was never there. Um again, my dad was in an office. What happened to the company?

8:59 What happened to the company? It went belly up. Your shitty ideas suck it. Hey uh uh my welcome to Smart List. Wow. Smart. This is an honor for us. We're super fans. Pam and I have threatened to do this for a long time. I'm so glad we finally found some time from your your your very busy schedule to do this next. Collectively, individually and collectively, you two are responsible for some of the greatest pieces of entertainment that people have enjoyed across this country ever. It's true. It's really cool. So impressive. It is really impressive. Thank you. It is. Um uh now but but what is what is unique listener is that usually the people who are uh driving these these these factories of of incredible entertainment. It's is usually just one person but these this this is a pair.

9:48 This is a duo and this isn't the first time that you guys have done it. You came from Tell the audience where you started to work on your on your duoess. Well I got to meet Pam. I was at uh this company Newline in the 1990s. It was my first job actually. out of uh this is a company. I joined uh I was there as an intern in uh 85 from NYU. So I I've been at New uh for for a long time and Pam worked for uh this company Jersey Films which of course produced Pulp Fiction and so many great films in the '90s. Danny Devito and Michael Shamburg and Stair. Yep. Yep.

10:26 Many of my people moved to Germany. This is an ongoing dumbass [ __ ] some Italian guy in the back wings that likes to comment. Sorry, push through it. So, that's where I met I met Pam. Pam uh Jersey Films produced a couple of movies for New Line. That's where I met Pam. We became best friends. She's from Jersey. I'm from Brooklyn. We're united on all things Italian food. It's the Holland tunnel apart in movies. Yep. And then uh we had a chance I we switched jobs, you know, many times. I went from being an exec to being a producer. She became an exec at Paramount. I produced for her.

10:58 Then uh when I became an executive again after producing at MGM, I invited Pam to work with me and then we've been an executive team ever since. H it's just like but so so then again for the for the listener there's a there's there's you can either be selling stuff or you can be buying stuff and that that's like a big big difference. You know, one obviously you're sort of like doing the dog and pony show and selling your wares and the other one you get to sit back in the chair, fold your arms and say sell me. Let me hear what you've got.

11:28 to overly reduce it. So you guys have both you've done both of that at very very high levels. You're obviously on the on the premium elite buying side right now. Is there is there a side that you like more? I mean obviously with the selling part you you you you spend more time sort of out there in the trenches and on set sometimes and and and on the buying side you're in a um in a more airond conditioned situation. Yes. snacks are better, more consistent. Um, what what do you what do you what do you prefer? Well, you know, it's different pleasures when you're a producer. You know, it's more artal and you're you're building the the project from the ground up with the director and you're just so much more intimately involved in the in just the the creative aspects of of movie making. And it's it's just a different pleasure. You you're kind of part of a family that erupts, you know, as the thing starts to take shape. And

12:19 it's and it's it's a it's a really wonderful experience. and you you're you're with you know these people for it's stressy I bet. Yeah. Because you don't you're not in control. You're not you're not the buyer. You sing for your supper a little bit more. But but there's we find there's advocacy on both on both sides. You know if you're a producer, you're advocating for the for a financeier or a studio to greenlight you. But even when you have the power of the checkbook, you're still advocating for your you know your boss or or the board that you report to to to finance a slate of pictures. And it there's advocacy on kind of both versions of the job, but the agenda is different. Yeah.

12:55 Pam, I mean, you're like you, while you're advocate, you need to sort of mind the asset a little bit more on the buying side and on the selling side, you can be a little bit more sort of purist and like, no, just whatever's better for the film. I mean, I'm oversimplifying it, but you also know as both having having been on the other side that you know, you you can't [ __ ] a bullshitter. So, if somebody comes to you and is like, "Hey, this" and then you're like, "Hey, man, I know how it's I know how the sauce is." Nobody can tell Pam. Nobody can tell Pam. No, no producer is going to pull the wool over Pam's eyes on budget. She can literally do both jobs, you know, with her eyes.

13:29 My love I mean Jason knows this cuz Jason and I have produced a movie together and work together. My first love will always be producing because I just love the grind and being on set as you guys know. It's just the best. There's nothing like it. Well, then do you miss that? Always. But I love this too. You know, they're not they're not it's not either. You guys can go visit the set. Exactly. Anytime you But I am You can't You can't pull the Watch the studio. You Well, you got to really watch it. Like if you're not in We try to visit the set. If if you don't visit, sometimes they think, "Oh, don't you care about us?" But then when you do show up, people are worried like, "Oh, are we over budget? Is there a problem?" Really got to navigate that carefully of like when and how we show up. Who's who's more prone to say, "Hey, let's go visit that set." Who Who likes to get out a little bit more often? Oh, Pam, for

14:18 sure. I like to go rogue. Yeah, I have a terrible turbulence anxiety. Like I have a flying phobia. So I do it, but but it's not something, you know, that I volunteer for a lot. Yeah, I do too. And it's Yeah, it's gotten increasingly worse. And you know what? In the last couple months, it's been a little bit better, but these guys know I get quite now. Where does it where like Will, you didn't have like a bad experience, right? It's just like as you become older kids. When I had kids. When I had kids. Same with you, Mike. Or did you have a bad experience? Yeah. Yeah. Um uh no, no bad experience. Uh shrink shrink told me once it's a control issue obviously a lot of a lot of people get it when they get their first uh dose of real responsibility. So when I got when they when New Line made me head of production in the in the '9s I was only I was 26 27 and I I you know it was the first big responsibility I ever got.

15:06 That's when I got the flying phobia and then it just it's escalated since I've had children and gotten more responsibility and it just kind of increased exponentially. Have you have you thought about working I I have considered working through it because I know I I have a friend of mine who years ago he and he had you know access to tremendous resources but he went with that guy who who's famous for walking people through that phobia and he did I think he told me he did a month of flights and he'd go to the he'd go to like LaGuardia he lives in New York and they'd pick a they'd look at the board and they'd pick a flight and they'd go they'd fly to Cleveland then they'd fly to Houston then they'd fly to Miami and he did that for about a month and the guy walked him through basically every scenario and he got over. Yeah. Well, I'm telling you when when I got stuck in that elevator like my therapist said the

15:53 best thing you could do from now on cuz I then I had was in such a massive panic. She goes, "Ride as many elevators as you possibly can." Right. It's like aversion therapy. It does help. I I accidentally stumbled into aversion therapy because my ex-wife uh lives in Fort Worth, Texas with my children and I I travel there every weekend, you know. So, so I'm on planes twice a week and it and it's just kind of, you know, normalized it for me. So, that that's helped a lot. And then information helps me. So, I fly with a lot of apps. Like I have apps going that tell me where the plane is in relation to every other plane what the weather is like and it really helps. Wait a second. Mike, can I tell you something, Mike? I do the same thing and I tell you what I've done recently while you're in the air. Yeah.

16:36 track my own flight and I look at AC weather and I look at flight aware and to see what the thing and I'm like are these guys going to go around this storm or not? I'm right there with you, brother. I I literally will go to the flight attendant. Excuse me, flight attendant. I noticed that this plane at 34,000 ft is smooth cuz you perhaps ask our pilot to kick it up 2,000 ft. We're popping around at 32. And she goes, "Do you know do you know do you know that do you know that they now have this new software that the pilots use that shows them where turbulence is that they all share it and it's like a represent will he knows everything. I fly with him a lot. But but here here's my suggestion. This is what I and this is recent just this spring. I I decided to stop doing it. I had a moment, Mike, where I went where I went, I'm not flying this plane, and the pilots don't want to die. Yeah, that's trust. Somehow

17:30 you've achieved trust. I'm still working on trust. Here's what I do. I fly the first flight out as much as I can because I'm so unbelievably exhausted. I don't care what happens. Oh, are you able to sleep on planes? I fall asleep in a second. Oh, I'm so envious of that. That explains your diet, too, that you just you don't care what Mike, what about what about a what about a nice a nice cool beverage to to to cut to cut the edge or or maybe you know, I'm sober, so I'm in a lifetime out of anything. What about what about a uh are sleeping pills on your list of No, I can't. Yeah, not they're on the no they're on the no fly list for me. What about mel What about melatonin or um and No. Yeah. No, I try to do it substancefree and uh and just use my apps and and and engage with the flight attendants. Same. When we're flying together, I'll go check on him and then he he tends to show me every app. So

18:23 then I start to have a panic attack, which I don't normally have on a flight, but yes, that's what we do. Yeah. You know what I feel would would help all of us is if we flew in one of those hurricane planes that the that the aircraft I think about that often they fly literally into the wall of a hurricane to to to measure the speed of the winds. Well, that's just it. It turns out planes can handle so much more than you think that they can. So once you go once you basically scuba dive with a shark, you're no longer scared of sharks because you look them in the eye and they don't care about you. And by the way, by the way, I you know, I was with my I was talking to my therapist the other day, and it turns out that humans can withstand so much more, too.

19:02 Oh, really? Jesus. Yeah, you can. You can do it, Willie. We are resilient. Can too. We can handle it. Now, let's talk about real fear. Let's talk about budgets. Let's talk about Dave Zaz. Let's talk about Zaz. But also, but like to Jason's point though too, like I I I want to get into that because I'm fascinated watching from the sidelines about movies and stuff and like why you know what is your opinion about cuz you I'm sure you guys talk about this. We all talk about everybody in the business talks about what's the state what's the state of the business because it seems like first of all it seems like you tell me the perception is that the I the star of any movie now is the idea because movie stars at least there are some that can still you go oh I want to see that person I like that person I like but for the most part do I have that that right or yeah like stars used to open films and now it's a little bit more plot and

19:56 premise driven to to to drive audience and I think there's an element of truth to that however you you see each new generation kind of want to wants they still want to create their own movie stars. So you have you have people like Timothy Shalamé and Austin Butler, Florence Q, like you know, basically any anyone on the red carpet for Barbie or or Dune is an example of, you know, young young audiences creating new movie stars. Brought audiences to that is the concept before the star, right? Yeah. It's exponential if you can if you can comb. No, I think I think Shalamé playing Bob Dylan was a great example for sure combining, you know, something iconic with with an actor people clearly want to see. I think there's opportunities to create new movie stars, movie stars still matter, but it is, you know, with the advent of streaming where people get so much content, you know, constantly, um, you do need that sticky

20:47 idea and that provocative, audacious kind of concept to break through the pre-existing IP like like Superman. Well, we've been and we've been inundated, right? We as uh who is it who said uh uh Tom Rothman said, you know, the tyranny of IP and we've been inundated with it, right? And and is there something says the guy who only has one Marvel title? Yeah. Way to go. Way to go. Now you just made his [ __ ] list. No, I love No, no, I'm kidding. He's a great And we will be right back. And now back to the show. Um my question is I guess in the face of all of that is there and and be as candid as as you want to be you're comfortable as being given if if all things being equal if you could control the appetite of of filmgoers and people who go into the theaters, what would be what would you do? What what kind of films would you would you make? Would you greenlight? Did you develop uh you know all things being equal? All things

21:53 being equal, we really believe in a diversified slate because we feel like it's a you know the world's become pretty nichy and so we try to have something for everyone so all your eggs aren't in one basket. You know it's it's it's pretty it's it's almost impossible even for Disney which owns those four giant labels of you know Lucasfilm and Pixar and and and Marvel. Um you can't have a 20 10 pole slate. There's just not that much IP available to just have nothing but billion dollar movies every year. Although we certainly love it and everybody tries. So, but there's room for the originals, too, like what you guys did with Sinners, right? Yeah. We think we think a balanced slate where you have something for everyone. And, you know, yes, if you're lucky enough to have IP and you can mine those franchises, great. But then it's also great to give new voices a chance, new filmmakers, um, directors that if you

22:42 could change one thing, you would you you'd maybe try to get the audience to be a little bit more thirsty for something weird and original and, uh, without Yeah, I think it's I think if we could change anything, it would be to get our fellow studios to make more movies. I think I think box office is down just cuz the amount of films has never really ticked back up since the pandemic uh, you know, started to reced. So you can just get it on streaming, you know. I mean, the other thing I think that's important for the audience now is directors. I think there is a relationship with this next generation where they can tell when a signature filmmaker has their voice on a movie.

23:19 They can tell that like a Jordan Peele or Ryan Jordan Peele or Ryan Cougler or Greta Gerwig or Chris Nolan, Paul Thomas Anderson, they could sense authorship or the lack of it. They really can. Jason Baitman. Jason. Absolutely. Jason Baitman. We're waiting for a much bigger filmography, man. A Jason Baitman picture. He refers himself in the third person a lot. Do you know that? I think the world needs another Jason Baitman picture. He always I told you I told Jason to start directing when we were making Identity The He's such a good director and we and and we always encouraged him to make more comedies, too, because he's such a funny mofo. But but can I ask you this though just just while we're on this topic is is there and again at the at the risk of of I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but but is is there has the the the sort of the onslaught of IP and and again we we there are lots of

24:16 great films that have come out in this era and there are a lot of people that whom we all know and love who have who have made these and have done really well and blah blah the list is very long but have we in in a certain way, have we dulled our our our uh taste buds uh for other kinds of films? Have we changed is is there a chance that we altered uh um people's uh tastes uh a little because the big things are so loud and sticking out? Well, yeah. That that we don't you know, we were all we're we're all older. We're all the same sort of generation.

24:49 We we were all raised on a diversified slate of films that came out every year and there were lots of comedies and dramas and action, etc., etc. And so we they had the verdict in Raging Bull and Kramer versus Kramer, which now you can't have those sort of adult dramas. Yeah. And and so now everything's been kind of it's kind of like, you know, it's it's what people complain about pop music, if you will, that everything just becomes the very, you know, homogenized and very much the same. And have we damaged uh tastes? I don't think so. I think and again because the your tastes are always refreshed by new audiences coming up. I think I think what's happened is the bar has just gotten higher for what's what we consider theater worthy criteria. You know, things that will make something not streaming but theatrical. But I think, you know, when you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or

25:38 Everything Everywhere All at Once from the Neons and the A24s, they're not they're not tent poles. They're not making a billion dollars globally, but they are pulling in audiences theatrically. And then on our side of the street when you have, you know, something as d, you know, as diverse as Minecraft and then the next weekend sinners or at Universal, you know, Oppenheimer and then We had Barbie, there's there's I I think that people are up for the theatrical experience and they're up for a variety of movies. The bar is just higher for what will get them out of the house and and that's our job to meet that higher bar. Yeah. And it's less about how how theatrical is uh not as good. It is more about how streaming is more appealing and there's good stuff to watch at home and so convenient. Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive. You know, there's enough to go around. Yeah. I think I think there

26:25 are there are consumers that are happy to wait for streaming or watch streaming originals. And then there's consumers that want the theatrical. Yeah. And and there are people who don't want to ever leave their house, right? Who don't want to go They won't even go to Larchmont even though it's three blocks away. Right. I wonder who that could be. Yeah, you can get everything on your phone. Go ahead. Um, now, but you said but you said you would you you'd love it if studios made more movies. What do you think the the the p is the primary reason that they're not making more movies because it's getting increasingly more expensive to to build a sort of uh a public profile for it, like a marketing profile. like you got to have you got to buy a bunch of commercials for it and and sort of build that social pressure to go see this thing because everyone's seeing the billboards and the commercials and oh my

27:14 god I guess I got to go see that cuz I got to talk about it at work that cost so much money to buy those commercials and those billboards that people say h maybe I'll just make it for streaming where I don't need to do all that stuff it's just production costs is is that one of the big things that No, I think I think it's about yes it's expensive to make some films but you can make films at different you know different budget levels depending on depending on what it is. But isn't the the price to sell them this the But I think you have to meet I think I think marketing has changed and I think you have to meet the cons like the the audience where they're receiving their advertising. So not necessarily a 30, right? Not necessarily a 30-second linear TV spot, but like digitally like what we saw just how we saw the fervor of Minecraft with the chicken jockey and the memes taking on a life of its own

28:00 coupled with two weeks later sinners and like Mike and my Tik Tok feed just filling with people, you know, experiencing this film. Like that was magical. Like magical to see that happen. And I think that's where they are. I think every legacy studio by by legacy studio I mean you know the the Paramount, Sony, US um the non-streamers coming out of the pandemic everyone is cautious about okay is box office down because the pandemic irrevocably altered viewing habits or is box office down because we're making less movies you know Pam and I feel like it's because we're making less movies. Some people feel human behavior may have been altered and the audience may be never coming back at the level they were in pre- pandemic. Um so I think as everybody tries to figure out the answer to that and it's a very fluid situation working working your slate back up to 10 15 20 movies a year. I just is going to

28:55 be a slow cautious process. Everyone's kind of feeling their way of what's it what's exactly causing the the downturn. Is it is the hangover from the pandemic or or is it that we're not making the same amount of movies and right you know almost to that point you know it seems like and you guys tell me more people than ever out of work in the history of the entertainment business. It seems like writers you know that used to work all the time can't find a g like actors directors producers that crew everybody. Why is that in your opinion and what does your crystal ball say about the future of that? Do you see that changing um like Village Road Show? Didn't they just go bankrupt or something? It just seems like the entertainment business is collapsing. Constrict. Yeah. It's it's it's getting smaller because there's there's less stuff being made. Yeah.

29:40 Yeah. There's more there's there's been some consolidation, you know, in the industry. So, that immediately means less buyers on the block. Um there was a contraction in production, you know, both on the series side and the and the feature side. Um you know, as we were navigating the the pandemic and then, you know, the so-called streaming wars, which were never really a war. Netflix won that war before it even started. They had they had a 20-y year head start. Um um I do think things are picking up and will tick up. Maybe not to prepandemic levels, but I think that has been a symptom of of both. It's all it's all cyclical, right? Panda. I was just going to say just the studios making less movies like we were saying, but also if you go to TV, you know, streaming has created the 8 to 10 episode series as opposed to what we all grew up with, you know, on network television with 22 episodes. And you you

30:32 constantly felt like, you know, you had all those linear networks that were creating multiple shows filling must see TV and all that stuff. And I feel like that has been altered a, you know, quite a bit since the streaming and since the pandemic, right? You used to do how many? 24 episodes a year on Will and Grace. Sometimes 22, sometimes 26, sometimes 23. It was crazy. Amazing. And then they don't Ozark. How many do you guys do? Just JB 13. 10. 10. And they're remaking it, right? They're doing it with robots. And they said it's got more life to it.

31:02 You see the way he's he can set it right in. Yeah. They said it's going to Yeah. It breathes more. Yeah. But oh shoot, what was I going to say? By the way, will we use Lego Batman in every tribute reel to War every best of Warner Brothers reel that we screen at Cineacon, we always include Lego Batman. Don't do that to him, Mike. He's kind of dying out on that. We love it. So, so guys, you you have you have been um uniquely great individually and also together and uh in really getting behind some of the more uh specific creative voices um behind these movies, people like Paul Thomas Anderson and David Fincher, etc., etc.

31:46 when you are collaborating with someone like that who they like to keep the edges on and that's what the audience likes to but sometimes often times that's at odds with the um the goal to get as many people into the tent as possible buying a ticket and and making it mass appeal and kind of around the edges sometimes and not be as controversial not be as challenging. How do you how do you manage that as a on the producing side on the on the selling side? I it's probably a lot easier. But in your current roles as as um you know trying to bring in profits as well, are those conversations difficult? Do you air on one side of the other? Walk us through that a little bit. I I find it because of our background. I mean, listen, I'm 30 years in. Mike's longer than that. We're just a little That's very polite to you, Pam. Thank you for saying naming number.

32:40 No, no, no. I'm just saying I'm 30 years and whatever. But but I think because both he and I have been in the trenches um on a producerial side, there's a certain level of understanding and trust that we bring to this job. So the filmmakers that we work with, some of them we've had long relationships like I'm we're working with Alejandra and Nichu right now. I'm on my fourth film with him. I think I think it's it's there's there's a trust, there's a collaboration, there's a respect. I mean, you have to earn the filmmakers respect, you know. So, I think what we bring to the tables because we have this knowledge of being on the ground and going through the ups and downs and the difficulties of what it is to be on set every day and try to make something great because we all set out to make something great and sometimes [ __ ] happens and it doesn't come out exactly how you envisioned it. You have to be

33:33 you have to be in lock step together as creative partners. So I think Mike and I try to approach it that way where we look at filmmakers as our partners. We're all have the same end goal to make something great and to get the biggest audience in the theater to see it. So I don't find it difficult. I actually find it invigorating. Well, that's really funny, Pam. That's really funny because you you often hear people you do in comments and stuff saying these [ __ ] people in Hollywood and they they just want to make [ __ ] movies. Like nobody's trying nobody sets out to make a shitty movie. By the way, everybody's intentions are good. Right. Right. And it's and there's no blanket statement for Hollywood. Like it's so it's so it's so different. You know, our friend Donna Langley at Universal is different than Tom Rothman at Sony. We do our thing at Warers. Like it's not Donna, another one from New Line that started uh not as an

34:25 intern, right? Um no, we actually hired Donna. She was an assistant to a manager at the time and uh and she you know and she and another executive Mary Parent who who went on to do great things and is a god running legendary for Josh Gro new line it was a great kind of you know training ground for a lot of people in the '9s and and you you met Donna and you knew she was going to run an empire someday. I mean she was just born to do has and has been in that position of leadership longer than any anyone. Yeah. Yeah, like ever multiple regimes running Universal. It's just by the way, the new line the people who have come in and out of New Line, it's a pretty interesting slate of people now that I think about all the people. Brener is still there with you, right? And then you've got Toby Emer was obviously Toby. And then you have our our buddy Kent Alterman who is there who we're still Jason and I

35:19 still play golf with. We love love Kent. And I'm just thinking like, wow, that that was a what an interesting place that was for a lot of people who kind of, you know, um, learned their their their stuff there. Yeah. We were given we were given the freedom to really run our projects and it and even though you were an executive, you almost behaved like a producer at in at New Line at that at that time. So, we all learned a lot. Interesting. And it really does seem like you guys are creating that or or continuing that um environment of trust and deference to a very specific filmmaker agenda like something like sinners for example like I have not seen it yet but from what I've what I've seen from the materials and heard from people it's a very specific and exciting creative the response is incredible for it selling popcorn and getting incredible reviews. So like that's that's the mother lode right there,

36:18 right? So talk about how frightening that can be to well you as you say Pam, you're a partner with the filmmaker. You're coming from a place of of shared experience and you kind of know what they're going through and blah blah blah. But eventually one has to just kind of close your eyes and jump in and just say, "All right, Ryan, I guess what you're going for here. We're really not going to be able to gauge until we're done. And so we have to trust you. We have to wait till after principal photography, get through post, have all that music come in and the color timing and all that stuff to create this very finely cooked meal that it looks like nothing coming out of the the grocery store. You look at all the ingredients and like you don't know what you've got till it's cooked. And so you have to give him all of that runway. Is that really really frightening or is it exciting or both?

37:08 and we'll be right back. Sorry, we got to reload. No, it is a good qu It is a good question. It was long, but it is a good question. Um, I I find it exciting. I have to be honest. I think I think when you have that chemistry with a filmmaker, with a director, and when you're pushing and pulling on things, it's not like we're just sitting here saying, "Hey, go off and run in the field and make this movie." You know, we're all talking all the time through the script process, through running the field. Where did you get that from? Like I don't know. It's just, you know, the field. Go off and play it and play and play. Going to be a new people are going to start to use this. By the way, this is going to be Thanks, Will. Thanks for teasing me.

37:53 Thanks, Will. Netflix meeting tomorrow. They're going to be like, "Look, we're not going to be running in the field over here." Okay. Ted doesn't want us Ted doesn't want us running. Exactly. You're going to I just want to run in the field, frolicking, you know, having a good time. It's going to be the variety headline tomorrow like Pam Abby of Warner Brothers advocates field running as opposed to stock price. By the way, the last six weeks I've been having I wouldn't be surprised. Anyway, Warner Brothers Warner ankles field running.

38:26 But you know, Ryan, when you're dealing with like Ryan comes to the table trailing, you know, like two billion in box office. Like he Yes, you could call it IP, but he created the Creed franchise out of his head, you know, and he he Black Panther, you know, I'm a comic book fan. I'm I'm a I'm a huge comic book collector still and geek fan and I knew I knew the Black Panther character, but it's not like that was one of the top 10 characters. Ryan, you know, created that franchise also again out of his mind. Um, obviously under the brilliant Kevin Feige, too. But so when you're when you're when you're doing a film with Ryan Cougler who has that pedigree, it is a little bit of a hedge against the unknown. I mean, greenlighting movies at a studio is like being at a casino. You're you have a certain amount of money and you're placing bets and you're hoping more of them work than don't work. But the only

39:16 hedge against the unknown is sometimes you can point to someone's track record, you know, like when we hired David Fincher to do seven. Um, you know, I happen to thought I thought Alien 3 was a beautiful movie. It didn't it didn't work as big as they wanted to commercially, but there was tremendous artistry and of course he had all his music his music videos and his commercials, you know, before that point made hiring him for seven very very easy. We were lucky to have him. Um, so when you can look at someone's pedigree, whether they're established like Ryan or a new voice coming up, like we just made a movie with this guy Zack Kger who did the movie Barbarian, and I think he's an amazing movie. Wasn't that an amazing movie? Totally. Totally unique, surprising in the genre, innovative within the genre. He, you know, we were we were lucky to get his next movie. uh when you can look at someone's previous

40:02 work. Um also another great horror movie that came out, Talk to Me, you know, by these two two directors who started on a YouTube channel, Rocka Rocka in Australia. Um wow. Well, you can when you can look at people's previous work, it gives you a little bit of a hedge against the unknown and that helps us make that call sometimes. There used to be that that old adage or that that thing that people would say that the studios are in the business of not making movies, right? Do you remember now? Is that true? Yeah, I remember that. I remember when they used there was a period, right? Yeah. Studios were playing. There was a period when I was a non-writing producer, which is literally like Willie Lman with scripts under your arm like driving all over town, you know, pitching your pitching your wares.

40:40 Um, that was just from somebody who just got you get somebody passed on. They're like movies. Studios are making a movie. Yeah. Studios would almost be like, "We dare you to make a movie. We dare you to get us to make a movie." And and that that that I find not a helpful attitude. Yeah, that's not helpful. I also don't think you can declare like that. I think that was like in the early 2000s, Will, when people when like after the boom of the 90s and like we're starting to shift and internet and all that stuff was happening in tech and everything. I I I just don't think you can declare any one thing, right? You can't say this is the way it is so we shouldn't make these kinds of movies until until one works.

41:18 Although when we lost DVDs, when DVDs went away, we did lose a safety net and and you know and streaming doesn't quite make up that gap. So it is we are working without a net you know but I also think as Pam said that can be really exciting because it just I think for the consumer it means that the bar for quality really really has to be high to get you to get out of your house and convert to to being a ticket buyer and but people couldn't they couldn't have predicted back then in the early 2000 what it was going to become and I think that that sort of fear so so you know as you said that you lost DVDs however everybody was so nervous at the advent of of of the internet and social media you remember the fear you know I remember the first uh uh when MySpace took off and people were were trying to greenlight movies with people who were had a presence on MySpace and everybody's clamoring to

42:04 people were not able to uh predict what it would be in the same way that we can't now with things like AI etc. And of course we're going to look back in 10 years and say my god we were so foolish to spend so much time worried about x y and z. I agree. Um and because there there obviously something else will happen. People will want to watch stuff. People will want to enjoy stuff in some way. And and there is the comm they want the communal experience. You know, for certain kinds of films, they want to go and sit with their neighbors and go watch the movie and then go to a cafe afterwards or a bar and have a drink and talk about it. Yeah. And I get that being in a being in a big a big dark room with a bunch of strangers, it's really fun to like get a get a get a shared experience of my 20s and of Berlin for me. That's Berlin. Twice a year. I allow myself. Twice a year. We'll be right back. And back to the

43:06 show. Um, but to like everybody be in the same room all at the same time get scared. I get why horror movies make so much money. Now to to think about, you know, crying next to a stranger. I get how maybe dramas. I'd rather maybe see that at home on a streamer. I get that. What I don't get is that there there isn't the desire for a shared experience with laughter in a group of people. Like, so tell us what you guys think the what is your theory of why comedy is such a hard cell in theat in movie theaters nowadays. I'm going to jump in real quick with a super fast answer you guys. It's because comedy now you can get on your phone in little tiny bites and you're fulfilled. And I I think that has a Thank Sean. You're welcome. Guys, I got to run. I got to run. Tik Tok.

43:56 So sorry. I'll talk to you guys later. Sean H brought to you by Netflix. Exactly. And Tik Tok. By the way, think about people used to go to theaters to watch porns together. Think about that. What do you think about that's over now, right Sean? That's over now, right? Sean still going. But uh I think com I think uh you know a lot of a lot of comedy has gone to live on streaming and and and Tik Tok in short short form. However um I do think that theatrical audience is there. I thought Jen Lawrence's movie No Hard Feelings was a was a good shot at it. And I do think one for Tom Tom got right is that Tom Roth Tom also I'm going to give I'm going to give Tom Rothman too. anyone but you came out and and worked the Thank you, Mike, for showing Jason up. Jason's so mad at you movies. I'm mad at you now. Also, comedy is different now. Comedyy's different than when we grew up. It's it's told in a different way and it's different. But

44:55 I think if you had, you know, if you if you had uh we're we want to bring our ready comedy back. We want to bring romantic comedy back. But if you I think I do think if I do think it's a case if you build it, they will come. We just so much of the talent, the new talent has gone directly right into, you know, uh, streaming and and and Tik Tok and YouTube that we're we're just trying to to to steer them back to look, let's take a shot with an original script. Let's take a shot with a Well, we had Blum we had Blum on here a while ago and Jason Jason Blum because he Yeah, Tracy knows cuz she heard it. Um and uh and we had Blum on here because because he basically um forced us to have him on and um we love it. We love him. We love him. We love him. It's a joke. He was amazing. Yeah, we love him. I couldn't love him more. But we did talk to him about the because he was, you know, he's obviously the master of of horror in and

45:47 uh horror. Um and he he um he we I said, "Why can't we make a comedy?" He said, "You just can't make any money." and he was quite about it. Yeah, we're going to prove him wrong. I'm just suspicious of blanket statements like that because everybody says I so so my career is 40 40 years now since 1985. Every time someone says thank you so much it's I moisturize. Um I think every time someone says this will never work again and then something comes out and pro proves it wrong. I remember the R-rated comedy was dead and then American Pie came out and suddenly everybody had had to have an R-rated comedy. Hollywood can be such a pack animal sometimes and and I just am very suspicious of blanket statements and reactionary too, right? Yes. Very. Yeah.

46:31 One of the greatest things I ever heard is everybody wants to be the second person to say yes. Right. That's a great that's a great quote. Yeah. Yeah. But it's more fun being first through the door. But of course, you know, look, this could be famous last words, but Pam, for better or worse, Pam and I feel like you can't do this job if you if you're afraid of getting fired. You got to be fearless in it because if you if you breed risk out of the out of the system, then innovation dies and the customer moves on. And and it also breeds a culture of people not wanting to pitch exciting new ideas. And just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it's not going to work. And I just think you could do both. You could walk and shoot them at the same time. You can mine your IP, your franchises, but you can also try to find that next generation of of filmmakers that'll give you new franchises.

47:14 Speaking of speaking of IP, you know, you mentioned earlier you're a big comic book collector, Mike. And um so you know, one of the things you guys get to oversee is DC and uh James James Gun and and uh and um Peter Saffron in there. And what tell us what you're excited about coming out of there. Well, we actually we have to stipulate um DC reports directly to David Zazlav. We don't we don't oversee it. Um but we were big supporters of Peter and James taking the job um in concert with. Yeah, we agree that that label uh you know really could have you we thought our advice um when we were asked is it it it doesn't need another career executive.

47:50 It needs a storyteller in charge. You know, we were really impressed with Pixar. They brought Pete Doctor who's a filmmaker in from the field to be chief content officer and preside over that their slate of movies. And I James, you know, I've been I I used to chase James as a producer, you know, when he did Slyther and started with his lowbudget movies. And uh he's really unique and I think DC's in great hands with the two of them. Um we've seen an early cut of of Superman, and I don't want to I don't want to jump the I don't want to bury the lead. There's a lot of marketing about to to roll out on the way to its release, but he really understood the assignment. He's his heart's in the right place. His aim is true and we're really excited about their their their new version of DC. Yeah, James is great.

48:33 Awesome for the whole studio though, too, because it allows for you to sort of crossromote and and like what is it? Rising tides, Will, what's the saying? Well, all boats all boats rise, right? What do you guys think? God, you're going to love the real world at some [ __ ] I just knew I was going to get it slightly wrong. Honestly, really enjoyable. It's nice that you guys have each other's backs. I know. I love it. Yeah, it's so true. What do you guys think about like remember Quibby when Quibby came out? I which I may have may remember. You promised to never bring up Quibby again. What are you doing? Wait.

49:06 Now, now we heard Roth. Now you Now you're hurting Jeffrey. I didn't say anything about it. I just said, "Do you remember it?" I do remember it. Okay. Um and I just read an I didn't read the whole thing. I read a blurb about that that's coming back now. short short little things like short episodes that are 2 minutes long and they're really picking up and kids on social media are loving it. They want a whole season of like two-minute episodes and 10 10 two-minute episodes or something that tell a story. What do you think about that? Is that true? And are people is that really picking up steam? Yeah, I I personally think um you know YouTube and and Tik Tok and and some of the platforms are are really about usergenerated content and and I think that I think that that I think that's great and I think some of the user generated content kind of will evolve into scripted content occasionally but

49:57 but it's in a in a way when Quibby debuted I I'm not an MBA. I I'm I'm not half as smart as as a lot of the people involved in who ran that company and and I would never I would never say that I know better. I did think though like YouTube kind of has that base covered even then in terms of and I and and you know I thought what what people what people really love about those platforms and short form content is that it's user generated. It's there's no distributor involved. It's it's the creator directly to their audience. That's right. and it's for those platforms. And I think that's kind of wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was I I actually do think that it was a sort of a valiant effort to try to do that and to and to get into that space, but I think that you're right.

50:40 And I think that it seems to be one of the one of the mistakes that is consistently made is that people try to jump out of their lane. And there's nothing wrong with taking chances, but they they they say, "Well, we're now we're going to do the thing. We're going to try to create this and then make it into a movie." Well, no. It is that. It shouldn't be that. It's like when they make the doc, you know that documentary that everybody loved uh during the pandemic and then they go, "Let's make it into a movie." Well, they've already got the documentary. We know the [ __ ] story. Why are we doing that again? I think the same thing. Well, then why have you never said that? That's why did I have to say it and then you can just agree as you don't get to You're the second guy. The second guy in Yeah. No, this is a line. You can agree with me and say, "Yeah, you're really smart, but you don't get to have any ownership of

51:27 Oh, wait a minute. I agree. But there are examples that where that has happened, but it worked where the documentary I mean the film of the documentary is actually engaging and thoughtful and successful and you know I mean sometimes when we did um Captain Phillips with I did that with Scott Ruden and Dana Bernetti the the the impetus was we were watching the news you get you get a version of the story from the news but you know we were we were thinking gee the news can't tell you what's being said inside that lifeboat or what the what the what the hijackers are saying to Captain Phillips. And when you can dramatize because I I did Moneyball, Captain Phillips, and Social Network all based on true stories. And the neat thing about dramatizing true stories, whether you're adapting a documentary or or working off a non-fiction book, is you can bring audiences dramatic structure, which are peaks and valleys and, you

52:20 know, moments that you I'm the captain now. I'm the And that was that was an improv line, too. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the captain now. And by the way, I remember reading Moneyball. That was 2003. The great Michael when that book came out. The great Michael Lewis. Absolutely. The great Michael Lewis. I've read all his books. These guys have never read a book in their lives. And I read I read that book. My ears work. They read book reviews though, I'm sure. But but I I remember thinking at the time when I heard that they were making Moneyball into a film, I thought if you've read the book, you think, well, how the [ __ ] are they going to do that, right? Or or Social Network like I want to see a [ __ ] movie about it was incredible. I loved Moneyball the film we had the I mean Aaron Sorcin who's one of the if not the best working screenwriter one certainly one of the greats on social network and he and he

53:04 co-wrote Moneyball with Steve Zelian who's who wrote Schindler's List I mean these are incredible screenwriters and they were able to find the human story obviously the it's amazing yeah what they brilliant if you've read the book you realize how brilliant those screenplays are um but talk talk a little bit if you if you if you don't think it's going to be a sleeping pill like like my questions are um what are there is there an interesting story that that that Tracy might be interested to hear about how when you do a true story how do you put the words into the mouth of real people without getting sued like how do you how does Aaron Sorcin go off and say all right now um you know uh Mark Zuckerberg says this and it's a dramatization it's it's not I know but you're using real people so there's legal safe harbor you can basically the Not to get too too boring about it, but basically if you're not derogatory or

53:57 defamatory, you know, you you have dramatic license certainly to make up dialogue. You also we do a legal vetting of every screenplay based on a true story and it it goes through this vetting process of are you on the are you on the right side of the derogatory and defamatory line? What's the risk we're running here? And can you back up things that you're alleging through documentation? on social network, we had the transcripts of the of the lawsuit that Ed Savverin brought against Zuckerberg. And if you remember the movie, that's kind of home base for Aaron. That that those depositions and that lawsuit are kind of what he cuts back to as the story is being told. So, he was on safe ground there on Moneyball and Captain Phillips. We actually negotiated the life rights of each of the people. So, we we had sewn them up uh before the movies were shot. But then does that give them the does that give them the

54:47 right to then look at the script and say no I didn't say that or I would never say that take it out or script is written they sign they sign it away before of course you don't want to you try to you know be responsible because you don't you don't want people saying when the movie comes out you know going on a PR jihad that oh this was this is ru my reputation. Yeah, Moneyball was actually great cuz we we made our deal with Major League Baseball and they were they were the the gatekeepers and all we had to do was make sure Major League Baseball approved the script and approved the cut of the movie. And it is helpful when you have the life rights of people and you you bring them into the tent like films just I worked on World Trade Center. We had John and Will's rights on Aaron Brochovich, Aaron's rights on this film Freedom Writers years ago of this teacher Aaron Grul. It was based on you

55:32 know we had the kids involved. We changed the kids' names to protect them and and their background, but it was so helpful to have that authenticity and to have that collaboration with the real people. But sometimes then your hands are tied though because it's a true story. Maybe the ending isn't as movieish as you might want it to be. And then you have to deviate from the real story and create some weird ending. And it's Let's ask somebody who loves having their hands tied. Sean. Sean. So I I would prefer I would prefer a twist or a twist that's with a glow stick in your teeth. It sorry pays to have their hands tied.

56:06 Well, um before we let you guys go, can you talk a little bit about what you guys might be collectively or separately excited about that's coming out of Warner Brothers uh that the audience can be looking forward to? Uh who's who's you guys want to like separately say which is your you can't say which is your favorite coming out, but like that's like asking a parent like they're all our babies. But what's what's coming up next that you're excited about? You're excited about all of them. What's coming? Well, look, this is this this is this, you know, I'm I'm a little biased in about New Line because I started my career there. So, it's it's just neat for me to have it back in in my life.

56:44 Um, Final Destination 6 is a fantastic theatrical experience. Amazing. It is so much fun. Incredible. It is so much fun. And then and then we have Zach's movie weapons which is his followup to Barbarian which is completely original and again an incredible audience response and and Paul Thomas Anderson has made a movie with DiCaprio. It's so of its moment. You even I mean we we're going to drop that was a teaser. There's going to be another trailer. It's so unique and so of the moment. I think that's going to really blow people away. Um, we have Brad Pitt's F1 movie. It's just fun. Big Jerry Brookheimimer, Joe Kazinski, uh, production there day one. Nobody's a bigger fan than Brad. Cool it. Well, it's Brad Pitt at his Brad Pittest. It's just so it's really it's really amazing to watch him in that movie. And then, you know, again, as a comic book geek, I'm really up for I think I I cannot

57:39 wait for this for the world to see James' new Superman. That's great. I'm excited. So, I'm excited for all of our slate. And we have Mortal Kombat as well too in the fall which is super fun. Um, and I'm really excited for some of the stuff we have in post. I mean, we started we relaunched in the animation. Oh, yeah. Will we launched Warner Animation to stand on the shoulders of Lego Movie and Lego Batman? Oh, well, you're I guess not included in that though huh? No, we're gonna have you back. Warner Animation Group is back. It's back.

58:08 Yeah, it's back. I think I feel like I sunk you guys with with Teen Titans Go to the Movies, which is actually a great movie if you've ever seen it. Not from the It's a phenomenal movie. Teen Titans Go to the Movies is I love that movie. No, I love that film. And I convinced, you know, we worked with those those writers, Aaron and and um Michael, are brilliant. They're brilliant. I agree. Yeah. I think James and Peter are working on a live action um Teen Titans, but and a new and a new and a new Teen Titans Go, I think, actually. Uh too.

58:38 Well, maybe you could read for that. You play pretty uh Yeah, we're really excited about the new animation label. Yeah, our first movie next year is Cat in the Hat with hater as the cat. So, really excited for that. And um direct like like Jason Baitman, Bill Hater is a director that we hope to have making movies at the studio. Bill's great director, too. Yeah, we have Emerald Finel's movie, Withering Heights, next year. We have Maggie Gyllenhaal's movie, The Bride, next year. So, we're really we're really jazzed about, you know, the eclectic slate we're trying to build here with the existing IP and, you know, filmmaker driven over. It is really exciting that you guys are there and doing what you're doing and the way that you're doing it.

59:18 And I'm so excited for this this the success um what this what I don't know when this is going to air, but you know, Minecraft and Sinners double barrel, you know, uh blockbusters coming out of the gate this month. And so, um just congratulations to you guys. Oh, Jack's the best. Yeah. Look, man, it's the like we love when you love movies, it's the it's the best job in the world. You know, we we've been obsessed with movies since we were toddlers. And to be able to do this is we're dream it's a dream come true. You can tell with the films you guys are are giving your yeses to.

59:48 So, please keep doing that. And um thank you very much for joining us today. You guys are Oh my god. Thank you. What an honor. Thank you guys so much. We love Smart. So great. Thank you. Please now go back to your busy your busy day and green lights. No, this is the most fun we're going to have today. So, thank you for this. Um, thank you guys so much. Thank you guys. Thanks, guys. Bye. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. See you later. Um, so guys, you know, I got to mix it up a little bit. Talk to them for a lot longer.

1:00:23 So interesting to talk to that kind of caliber of people on the show. We never get to talk to those people. were always talking about them or about studios or about people who work for the studio. They are running the studio. They are in control of what America is seeing out of Warner Brothers. Fascinating. Yeah. And they've got such good taste and usually those folks don't get hired to to do such a corporately responsible job and they manage to balance the two. I I'm just I'm uh really fascinated with how they're able to do both that. Yeah. God, you're so stupid. I'm so dumb. I know.

1:00:56 It would be hard for me. Oh, you know, I can't do two things at once. I couldn't do anything. I always say, imagine I always go like, imagine if I was in charge. You think we'd be we we'd have bridges and roads if there would be nothing. We'd all be huddled under a tree if id been in charge. Do you know what I mean? How do you think you would do at running a studio, Will? I would terrible. I'd run into the ground one week. What about you, Shnie? I would love it. I think I would really love it, too. I don't think I'd be any good at it, but I I would love it just for just for a week to be on the buying side, right? I think I I think I could do it.

1:01:26 get to sit there and just say, "Yes, tell me." Yeah. And And I think it'd be super fun. And uh and like I think they'd both be horrible. You'd drive everybody who work for you crazy. Everybody would hate you both. Knowing you both as well as I do. Everybody who'd worked there would [ __ ] hate the hell out of you. Snacks. Snacks would be And they wouldn't be able to tell you. Neither of you self-aware in any real way. You know what I mean? A gummy a gummy a gummy closet. Chips closet. Um but you know what the chocolate snacks you Yeah. Uh um no wait I got one. Oh here he comes. Um you know but but the biggest movie that they did was so great. What was it last year?

1:02:03 What was it about the Hasbro the doll? What was it? Bar but we've been lazy. Try another title that's if you want to find if you want to find a word that that that does rhyme just go and look up and and use some help from a Bye. No no not there either. That's not a word. Um, barbby would have been great. Um, let's see here. Barby. Barbie. Yeah, bar. Barby. That would have been great. Okay. You know what? I just checked with the judges. They will allow. You know what? Hang on. I'm going to look at a word and you two, I'm going to put both of you on stand. Bye. Very good. Bye.

1:02:49 No, that's a bye. Smartless. Smart glass. Smart list is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Bennett Barbco, Michael Grant, Terry, and Rob Armjarf. Smart less.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Pam Abdy & Mike De Luca | SmartLess"?

Michael De Luca (Guest), Will Arnett (Host), Pam Abdi (Guest), Michael Duca (Guest).

What is discussed in "Pam Abdy & Mike De Luca | SmartLess"?

In order: 0:00 Pam Abdi, Will Arnett, George Will, California; 10:00 Producer, New Line, Jersey, Jersey Films; 20:00 Pandemic, Sinners, Sinners, Sinners; 30:00 New Line, Warner Brothers, David Fincher, Newline; 40:00 Tik Tok, YouTube, James Gun, Quibby; 50:00 Moneyball, Moneyball, Moneyball, Moneyball; 1:00:00 Warner Brothers, Barbie, Barbie, Barbie.

What is mentioned in this SmartLess episode?

262 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Warner Brothers, Michael De Luca, Will Arnett, Pam Abdi, Michael Duca, New Line. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Pam Abdy & Mike De Luca | SmartLess"?

The episode runs 1 h 3 min; the transcript is about 13,004 words in 87 timestamped sections.

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