Transcript

RE-RELEASE: Paul Thomas Anderson | SmartLess

From SmartLess · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 3 min · 12,848 words · 268 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "RE-RELEASE: Paul Thomas Anderson | SmartLess", an episode of SmartLess published October 9, 2025 (1 h 3 min, about 12,848 words). It mentions 80 people, works and ideas, including Oscar Levant, Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love, Los Angeles, SmartLess.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Oscar Levant, Murderville, SmartLess, SmartLess
  2. – 20:00: Typewriter, Prospect in Talmage
  3. – 30:00: Boogie Nights, Josh Hamilton, Mark Ruffalo, Singing in the Rain
  4. – 40:00: Jack Fisk, BPC Orchestra, David Lynch, Johnny Greenwood
  5. – 50:00: Maya Rudolph, Punch-Drunk Love, The Film Foundation, Chicago
  6. – 1:00:00: Aspect Ratio, Dodgers, Emma Chamberlain, Los Angeles
  7. – 1:02:38: Boogie Nights, Magnolia, Punch-Drunk Love, SmartLess

Notable quotes from "RE-RELEASE: Paul Thomas Anderson | SmartLess"

  • Okay, here we go. This is going to be a smartless episode. Let's tune up the ears. Get the wax out. What are you doing? The papers are getting set. The prep is done.
    about SmartLess · at
  • Sean started his stay there what is it going to be like a multimonth stay in Chicago right the, first, night, he, was, there, was, was Valentine's and appropriately he and Scotty saw a couple consummating Valentine's right across the street.
    about Chicago · at
  • How's, How's, Oscar, Levant?, Good.
    about Oscar Levant · at
  • Well,, maybe, they'll, check, out Murderville again.
    about Murderville · at
  • 11 Academy Award nominations. Most importantly though, he's got four kids a house in the valley, and married to the coolest woman we three know. gang.
    about Valley · at
  • Come, on., Boogie, nights,, y'all.
    about Boogie Nights · at
  • Your, dad, was, the, voice, of, ABC, for, all, of my years growing up in Los Angeles.
    about Los Angeles · at
  • Doing it with somebody that you love and work with. Like for instance on that film I had never worked with Jack Fisk who's a one of the great production designers who started…
    about Jack Fisk · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Oscar Levant — Person · 6 mentions · first at
  • Jack Fisk — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Maya Rudolph — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Yeah., Or, in, the, world., Maybe, we, can, just say the world for, Tracy., Maya, Rudolph., Tracy.
  • Curtis Wayne Wright — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah,, it's, brand, new, play, by, Doug, Wright who won the Pulitzer for I am my own wife and he wrote the movie Quills and amazing writer.
  • Will Arnett — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Listener,, that's, a, show, on, Netflix called Murderville that Will Arnett u brought to all of us. It's very and, you, know, well, so, we, go, from, that, so from goodn night Oscar to, Murderville, to, the, the, other, big.
  • Paul Thomas Anderson — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Paul Moyer — Person · 1 mention · first at
    I, remember, a, big, deal, was, that, we, were shooting and we had to we had it was when the days of Paul Moyer. Do you remember Paul Moer?
  • Ron Burgundy — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah,, he, was, a, hand, it, handtohand, fight with him and Ron Burgundy would be great. the very similar you know thing.
  • Josh Hamilton — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Right, that, my, then, girlfriend, Missy, Joerger was in with Rough Mark Ruffalo and Josh Hamilton that, then, became, kind, of, really, I, I think the inspiration for You Can Count on Me, and it and but it.
  • Mark Ruffalo — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Right, that, my, then, girlfriend, Missy, Joerger was in with Rough Mark Ruffalo and Josh Hamilton that, then, became, kind, of, really, I, I think the inspiration for You Can Count on Me, and it and but it.
  • David Lynch — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Who's a one of the great production designers who started his career with Terrence Malik and David Lynch. they kind of go back to their beginnings together. Anyway, I contacted…
  • Johnny Greenwood — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah.,, did, was, was, there, a, similar, process with Johnny Greenwood who did the for Tracy was the composer on that film? I believe it was the first time he'd composed music for a film and first time you guys worked together.
  • Molly Shannon — Person · 1 mention · first at
    At, SNL., I, that, was, the, the, time, with Will Frell and Molly Shannon. And I had met Molly Shannon and she said, you could come and you can see how we do this. And at the time I was writing Punch Drunk Love. And I was.
  • Shannon Dary — Person · 1 mention · first at
    The Denise show where he's talking to his ex-girlfriend Denise who's played by Shannon Dary and, and, it's, a, funny, enough, premise, and he keeps trying to woo her back but there's a moment when he starts screaming I think he's I think.
  • Emma Chamberlain — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Rewiring how we appreciate those things and I watched that the story of Neville Chamberlain you know signing the Munich agreement with Hitler over the Sudatan land, etc.
  • Lucille Ball — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, this is very dangerous. I remember there's these great episodes with Lucille Ball doing these radio interviews from the mid60s.
  • Adam Sandler — Person · 1 mention
  • Brenda Tracy — Person · 1 mention
  • Bruce Pearl — Person · 1 mention
  • Fred Astaire — Person · 1 mention
  • Harry Nilsson — Person · 1 mention
  • Jason Bateman — Person · 1 mention
  • Keith Mark — Person · 1 mention
  • Kristof Penderecki — Person · 1 mention
  • Martin Scorsese — Person · 1 mention
  • Quentin Tarantino — Person · 1 mention
  • Sean Hayes — Person · 1 mention
  • Terrence Malick — Person · 1 mention
  • Todd Rundgren — Person · 1 mention
  • Will Ferrell — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Boogie Nights — Book · 6 mentions · first at
  • Punch-Drunk Love — Book · 4 mentions · first at
    Okay., Party, drinks., We've, got punch, drunk, love., Hemophilia., There, Will Be Blood. Major golf tournament.
  • There Will Be Blood — Book · 3 mentions · first at
    Okay., Party, drinks., We've, got punch, drunk, love., Hemophilia., There, Will Be Blood. Major golf tournament.
  • Phantom Thread — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    Addiction, is, inherent, vice., Haunted textiles. We know and love. Phantom Thread and Italian Candy out in theaters now.
  • Licorice Pizza — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    The, Valley, Famous, Licorice, Pizza, Record Store.
  • Magnolia — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    The first shot in Magnolia, was that when you go through the hallways and you go onto the sound stage, isn't that the Tonight Show stage at Yes. Right.
  • Singing in the Rain — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    Point maybe needing help like what is the story and luckily enough coming across singing in the rain and being like oh right it's just the same thing as like silent talkies you…
  • I Am My Own Wife — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah,, it's, brand, new, play, by, Doug, Wright who won the Pulitzer for I am my own wife and he wrote the movie Quills and amazing writer.
  • Quills — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah,, it's, brand, new, play, by, Doug, Wright who won the Pulitzer for I am my own wife and he wrote the movie Quills and amazing writer.
  • Inherent Vice — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Addiction, is, inherent, vice., Haunted textiles. We know and love. Phantom Thread and Italian Candy out in theaters now.
  • This Is Our Youth — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Different incarnations, a bunch of different scenes, which eventually then became This Is Our Youth, the play right, that, my, then, girlfriend, Missy, Joerger was in with Rough Mark Ruffalo and Josh Hamilton.
  • You Can Count on Me — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Hamilton that, then, became, kind, of, really, I, I think the inspiration for You Can Count on Me, and it and but it was like this similar story, similar theme that he told in various ways over at least 15 years before he kind of.
  • The Worst Person in the World — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Of the artists, but we just we're kind of obsessed right now with this film, The Worst Person in the World.
  • The Purple Rose of Cairo — Book · 1 mention · first at
    It's, piss, off, I, I, don't, this, is this is stretched out way too much, you know? I was watching The Purple Rose of Cairo last night which, is, about, 92, minutes, and, absolutely perfect and is packed so much story.
  • The Winds of War — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Those are great and there, used, to, be, this, opportunity, they would have like the winds of war or you know roots or these huge miniseries it was like okay that's fantastic that used to be a kind of work of art in and of itself.
  • Monty Python and the Holy Grail — Book · 1 mention
  • Roots — Book · 1 mention
  • The Dirk Diggler Story — Book · 1 mention
  • West Side Story — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • The Film Foundation — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Because he the person who I collaborate the most with that is Scorsesei because he has the film foundation. He since the 70s, since the late '7s, early 80s went, around, to, every, every, studio, in town and said, Look, this.
  • Valley Famous Licorice Pizza Record Store — Company · 1 mention · first at
    The, Valley, Famous, Licorice, Pizza, Record Store.
  • KTLA Channel 5 — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Yes., You, know,, there's, a, great, Oscar Levant show that he did that was here on KTLA Channel 5 and Fred Estair was one of the That's, exactly, right.
  • Tonight Show with Johnny Carson — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah.,, what, is, they, called, it officially? It's NBC. It's where the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, they did that, but they also did the local news there. They had you, know, I, remember, a, big, deal, was, that, we, were.
  • BPC Orchestra — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Pendereki or Schoebird or, even that the piece that he had written for the BPC orchestra? So, that was already kind of informing where my head was at. Mhm.
  • The Denise Show — Company · 1 mention · first at
    And I guess I saw the story that I remember is there was a sketch called the Denise show where he's talking to his ex-girlfriend Denise who's played by Shannon Dary and, and…
  • Aspect Ratio — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Did was not cut by me. It was cut by a guy named Joel, who's got a company called Aspect Ratio. And it was one of those great moments where I just handed the film over and…
  • Dodgers — Company · 1 mention · first at
    And, they've, got, the, Dodgers,, right, Paul?
  • BBC Concert Orchestra — Company · 1 mention
  • MoMA — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • SmartLess — Product · 3 mentions · first at
  • Murderville — Product · 2 mentions · first at
  • Typewriter — Product · 2 mentions · first at
    Excited me because I liked it. I think I got lucky that I liked it. I liked putting paper into a typewriter and, typing, out, ideas, and, I, liked, the, I liked seeing it on…
  • 8mm Video — Product · 1 mention
  • High 8 — Product · 1 mention
  • Smile — Product · 1 mention
  • U87 Microphone — Product · 1 mention
  • VHS — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Munich Agreement — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    And I watched that the story of Neville Chamberlain you know signing the Munich agreement with Hitler over the Sudatan land, etc.

Places & events

  • Los Angeles — Place · 4 mentions · first at
  • Valley — Place · 3 mentions · first at
  • Chicago — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • New York City, New York — Place · 1 mention · first at
    No,, I, think, people, are, just, used, to living Well, Will, you can speak to this. You've lived in New York City. do you just get used to the fact that people might be…
  • Prospect in Talmage — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Oh,, that's, nice., I, got, to, go,, you, know, I had that opportunity to go to Prospect in Talmage was where he would go, to, work, at, ABC and,, you, know,, generally got…
  • Evergreen Park — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Chicago,, Evergreen, Park., I, was, born, in the hospital in Evergreen Park, but I just say Chicago.
  • Sunset and Hollywood — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Cedars of Lebanon. It was called Franklin, or, No,, the, far, east right, there, where, Sunset, and, Hollywood meet that big blue building almost, near, Prospect.
  • Cedars of Lebanon Hospital — Place · 1 mention
  • San Fernando Valley — Place · 1 mention
  • Sudetenland — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

  • SmartLess — Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Okay, here we go. This is going to be a smartless episode. Let's tune up the ears. Get the wax out. What are you doing? The papers are getting set. The prep is done.
  • Netflix — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Listener,, that's, a, show, on, Netflix called Murderville that Will Arnett u brought to all of us. It's very and, you, know, well, so, we, go, from, that, so from goodn night Oscar.

Full transcript with timestamps

Okay, here we go. This is going to be a smartless episode. Let's tune up the ears. Get the wax out. What are you doing? The papers are getting set. The prep is done.

Okay,, ready?, Here, we, go., You, guys, ready to ready to talk? Guys,, guys,, guys,, what?

It's, an, all, new, Smart, List. Oh, god., Smartless. Smartless. Smart less. Okay., Hey, guys,, look., Wait,, check, this out.

Oh,, sure., Yeah., Yeah., Start, right, away. Yeah., Start., Have, you, been, preparing, Chuck?

You, see, the, Look, at, the, sign construction. No,, that, sign, right, where, my, finger, is.

Chicago. Oh,, wow., Wow., Wow., Wow., Did, you, know that a week ago that you were going to be staying in that apartment?

I, knew, I, knew, where, the, name, of, it,, but I didn't know where it was. Yeah., Sean, uh, for, the, for, the, listener uh Sean um started his stay there what is it going to be like a multimonth stay in Chicago right

the, first, night, he, was, there, was, uh, was Valentine's and appropriately um he and Scotty uh saw a couple um consummating Valentine's right across the street

and, and, like, in, in, kind, of, like, it wasn't even like it was all the lights were on it was somewhat impromptu. We won't get into the graphic details of it, but it was clearly an office building not a planned uh consummation.

No,, all, all, parties, were, upright, is, the point. And it, was, it, was, half, a, wobbly, H., Okay.

Isn't, that, wild?, And, Scotty's, like, I, go, "What are you looking at?" And he's like, "Come over to this window."

Wait,, how, long, was, he, looking, out, the window before you noticed he was staring?

It, was, It, was, a, minute. And, he, kept, saying, And, he, kept, saying, "Come look at these people in love." Right. He kept saying, "Look at these people in

I, mean,, he, they, were, going This, is, love., In, case, you, didn't, know, it's Valentine's Day."

Love, is, okay. Now,, do, you, think, they, wanted, to, be seen? That's why the shades were up.

Yeah. No,, I, think, people, are, just, used, to living Well, Will, you can speak to this. You've lived in New York City. Uh do you just get used to the fact that people might be watching you or do you Well that

I, I, think, you, go, back, and, forth., I, think that you you have moments where you're like "Oh my god." And then you also have, moments, where you're, like, you, just live your life and you don't think about it. You can't you can't think about it all the time.

I, mean, you, could, pull, the, shades, down. Sure., Um, I, will, I, would, suggest, that those people who are engaged in that in that moment uh didn't care uh and and in fact that that probably was there to heighten their experience.

Now, Shaunie,, you're, you're, you're, back out on the road. Um how's uh we'll get to our guest here. Apologies, but uh Shnie, how's the first few days of rehearsal going? Oscar.

How's, How's, Oscar, Levant?, Good. So, Sean's, doing, a, It's, not, a, musical, right? It's got some music in it, but it's

No,, it's, a, play., It's, a, play. Okay,, so, he's, going, So, he's, there, now. He's a weekend of rehearsals and uh it's pretty arduous to to rehearse a play for the listener. And Sean, are you loving it or or having regrets?

Oh, my, god,, I, love, it, so, much., I, mean, it's a ton of work, but um thank you for asking. It's it's uh yeah, it's a ton of work, but but really rewarding. You know what I love the most is the we're in the process of sitting around talking about the play page by page, making sure everything makes sense and the backstory informs what the characters are doing. It's kind of

Is, this, the, first, time, the, play, is, being done? Yeah,, it's, brand, new, play, by, Doug, Wright who won the Pulitzer for I am my own wife and he wrote the movie Quills and amazing writer.

Well,, let's, plug, Doug, for, sure., You know, does, he, have, a, website? Jesus.

Oh,, by, the, way,, it's, called, Goodn, Night Oscar. It's called Midnight Hospital. We know we have told where can people find their tickets.

Audience, across, the, country, knows, Oscar Levant backstage at the Tonight Show. Nobody's going to go to the play now. Everybody feels like they've already seen it.

Well,, maybe, they'll, check, out Murderville again. Yeah,, exactly., Let's, give, that, a

That's, not, a, bad, idea., That's, not, a, bad idea. How's, that, doing,, Will?, People, seem, to really be enjoying it.

It's, been, very, nice, to, see, people, enjoy it and have fun with it. Listener,, that's, a, show, on, Netflix called Murderville that Will Arnett u brought to all of us. It's very

and, you, know, well, so, we, go, from, that, so from uh uh goodn night Oscar to, Murderville, to, the, the, other, big question we got a lot on the tour which is Jason when are the final six episodes of

it's, seven, but, uh, not, a, big, deal, I, I don't I wanted to surprise people with the seventh. Sorry

there's, a, bonus., Yeah., Uh, after, the credits there's one more. Um they're going to announce that soon but it I cannot say but it will be soon. All right. Here comes our guest, y'all.

Okay., Okay., All, right, Sean., Well,, today, I, get, into, a, little bit of trouble with you guys. I apologize. I know that you hate it when I bring an academic on or a scientist big brains in general, but this guy seems to

really, just, hold, on., He, seems, to, really be liked by those who have taken his class., All right., He's, been, teaching film making for almost 30 years now and out of some of the top institutions in town. He's taught his students mostly through doing in that he's managed to gather the funds necessary to himself make nine films on subjects as odd as a single digit uh nighttime mucus, party drinks, hemophilia, major golf tournament, addiction, haunted textiles and Italian candy. And if you can believe it, these films have yield him 11 Academy Award nominations. Most importantly though, he's got four kids a house in the valley, and married to the coolest woman we three know. gang.

It's Paul Thomas Anderson. No, way. Oh, my, gosh. Hello., Oh, my, gosh. Hi, guys.

It's, so, good, to, see, you. Did, you, guys, have, a, guest, with, that, list of uh of subject matters?

You, really, had, me, reeling, on, that. Did, I, bury, it, good? That's, a, great, intro.

Huh? I, worked, on, that, for, a, full, nine, minutes this morning. Paul,, would, you, have, been, able, to, guess yourself with that intro?

Come, on, now., Now, let's, let's, guess, it. So, a single digit. Whi- Which one is that, man? Well, I did it in order. A single digit obviously is heartache.

Night, nighttime, mucus. Nighttime, mucus. Come, on., Boogie, nights,, y'all. Party, drinks.

Oh, my, god., Oh, my, gosh. Okay., Party, drinks., We've, got punch, drunk, love., Hemophilia., There, Will Be Blood. Major golf tournament. Obviously, the master.

Yeah. Addiction, is, inherent, vice., Haunted textiles. We know and love. Phantom Thread and Italian Candy out in theaters now.

The, Valley, Famous, Licorice, Pizza, Record Store. That's, incredible. All, right.

Pretty, good. I'm, so, proud, of, myself., Paul,, can, you can see I'm just beaming. So,

guys,, we, can't, do, early, morning, records. I'm still up. That's, like, the, USA, Today, crossword version.

You, know what, I, mean? That, was, Oh,, man., Wait,, but, Oscar, Levant is one of my heroes.

Really? Oh,, really? Oh,, you, go., You, too., You, too. He's, amazing,, isn't, he?

Yes., You, know,, there's, a, great, Oscar Levant show that he did that was here on KTLA Channel 5 and Fred Estair was one of the

That's, exactly, right. It, was, impossible, to, find, forever, and ever and ever.

I, have, the, whole, thing, if, you, want, it. No., Well,, here,, but, I, remember, it, was this impossible to find thing. And then um when this thing YouTube came around I remember thinking

I'll, see, if, this, thing, can, really, find something I want. And I put in the Oscar Levant show and there it was. I said "Oh my god, I like YouTube." It was there. Great. Yeah. Yeah.

Dear, Mr., YouTube,, great, job., Um, what's your uh while while I'm thinking of it cuz my brain doesn't hold stuff well. Um, the first shot in Magnolia, was that when when when you go through the hallways and you go onto the sound stage, isn't that the Tonight Show stage at at Yes. Right.

Yeah. Speaking, of, Tonight, Show,, Oscar, Levant, all that stuff. Yeah., Um,, what, is, they, called, it officially? It's NBC. It's where the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, you know, they did that, but they also did the local news there. They they had

you, know, I, remember, a, big, deal, was, that, we, were shooting and we had to uh we had it was when the days of Paul Moyer. Do you remember Paul Moer?

And, um, we, just, needed, to, move, his, space over, you know, a couple spots and it was like, you know, three days of negotiations to to move Paul Moyer's spot. I do remember he was not having it. And it was on a Sunday. He wasn't even shooting.

Oh, my, god. He, wasn't, even, there., He, just, didn't want his stuff messed with.

He, just, didn't, want, his, spot, messed, with somehow., I, remember, I, don't, know, how, I'm remembering this. He had a a bright I think it was a bright red 911 DP target like one of those with the big whale tails.

I, like, that. Um, Yeah. Did, he, cut, you, off, once, on No,, I, just, remember, being, taken, that, a local newsman uh would have some big ass flashy cool car and he pulled it off. That guy is very very cool.

Yeah,, he, was, a, hand, it, handtohand, fight with him and Ron Burgundy would be great. the very similar kind of, you know thing.

Uh,, speaking, of, cool,, uh,, uh,, network, uh, uh, newsmen kind of a little bit of a reach.

Your, dad, was, the, voice, of, ABC, for, all, of my years growing up in Los Angeles. Really? Um, I like if I if I played that voice for you, you would you'd it'd knock you out. You'd you'd be like, "Oh my god, that's Paul's dad." Uh, no question there. I just want to mention that as something very very cool. Well actually, so Paul, can we've talked about this briefly before once because you mentioned um your dad was the voice of ABCs, you said, and he he he was like the original real promo guy on networks.

Yeah., And, and, my, recollection, is, and, so I'm going to say this and then you can tell me what you know about this and if I'm wrong.

He, would, record, the, promos, for, all, the network and the promo guys are when you watch the show when you watching a network and you hear coming up tonight at 8:00 p.m. It's an allnew blah blah blah followed by

Oh,, that, was, your, dad., That, was, your dad. And, your, dad, would, sit, in, the, in, the room with the engineer right next to the board and he had a 416 a shotgun mic and he was the first guy to do that in that way. Is that right?

Mhm., I, I, don't, know, for, sure, if, that's exactly that that technical thing, but that the image of that shotgun mic uh you know, he would never go into the booth. He wanted to do it in the control room. Uh

was, he, cuz, he, was, actually, in, real, time wanting to telling the guy how to modulate his voice and do all the EQ and stuff.

I, think, that, had, something, to, do, with it, too. And I think he I think he was smart enough or done it enough to know like I'm not going in the booth. I'm going to be with you guys. you know it's going to be exactly the same. I'm not, you know, um

he, also, liked, to, smoke, while, he, was doing it, too. And I think the other guys,

Willie, likes, that., Willie, does, a, little of that. Not, in, the, booth., Not, anymore., But,, but, but, but I will say that like, and and then we'll get out of the weeds on this. So, traditionally, all the voiceover guys, especially in New York, where a lot of it used to be done back in the day, everybody used the mic that's uh very common that I do have over here, an what's we refer to as an 87, a U87, and it's a great microphone.

Oh,, thanks., Well,, keep, going. Your, dad, changed, that, by, using, that shotgun mic and he forever changed and it became the West Coast microphone that all So, when I would come out here and go to a recording studio, they'd always have a shotgun mic and it was because of your dad that that became the standard out.

Is, that, like, the, Johnny, Carson, one, that was on his desk? Is that what a shotgun mic is? What is that?

No,, that, No., No. Oh,, okay., Bye, everybody. Oh,, see, you, later,, Sean., Um,

so,, uh,, Paul,, you, did, not, know, that, huh? No,, that, sounds, fantastic, to, me., And, it doesn't seem too far from from accurate. Even, you know, um, he he he did obsess over that kind of stuff. And I probably passed a little bit of it on to me, you know.

Were, you, close, to, him? Yeah., Very. Oh,, that's, nice., I, got, to, go,, you, know, I had had that opportunity to go to Prospect in Talmage was where he would go, to, work, at at, ABC

and,, you, know,, generally got that was sort of my first taste of being around anything that was show business related and that was magical to me.

How, old, were, you, at, that, point? Uh,, anywhere, between, the, ages, of probably five and, you know, nine. 75 to 7. Did it did it strike you as being like a peculiar thing for your dad to do? I can say from my own experience and I ask this because I say to my kids sometimes like it's when they do stuff or I do stuff or they come in a work-related environment like it's weird, right, that this is what you're because it's weird to me. Yeah.

If, my, dad, had, done, it, and, I, sort, of acknowledge it. Was it did it seem strange or just because it was your dad? Um, it seems strange only because it was not I was proud of him, but no one else could recognize this the pride, you know, it's just such a behindthescenes gig. There's nothing there's nothing kind of famous about it, you know. You don't walk down the street and somebody say like, "Wow, there he is, you know or your your dad's a baseball player saying hit home run." It's like, well you you know, there's no recognition to it really. It was this, but he that's what he loved about it so much was that he could just kind of have this independent life coyoteeing around town and, you know, doing his work and getting paid for it. So you're sitting there, you're watching kind of the the sausage get made uh for for television and in some aspect and were you you were you at that point starting to gather

these images and interest in this process and what it oh these are the people that are behind the curtain that create at least this lane of fake life and and and that started to build an idea for you about what you might want to do or or can you can you track the moment that you thought uh I I I want to do something like this.

I, can't, remember, because, for, as, long, as my memories are there, I've wanted to to make films for sure.

Um,, but, you, have, to, remember,, I, mean, Jason, you'll remember that there was like such a dividing line between making films and making television. You know

television, back, then, was, like you, know,, anybody, can, do, it,, you, know, movies was like this

this, gold, ring, like, not, everybody, gets to make movies, you know right?, So, you, started, to, experiment, with little home movie and it's not it's not an uncommon story, right? And then you

the, same, exact, story, as, everybody, else, but I had the and I had the the the camaraderie and that which but it's so crazy now. I mean I look around my my life right now and I see my relationship to all the people in dark rooms that I work with, engineers and things like this when through the entire process of making a movie and like this exactly what my dad did. you go to a dark room each day and you know trying to make something happen and the and the friendships that that he had with those guys I I look back and I think I was really inspired by I always just thought that's what a friendship was you know these kind of he was very close with all these technicians and guys that that he worked with and so those are the people that were around our house.

Yeah., I, my, one, of, my, first, experiences was was people that were very very close with, the, crew, or, at least, a, a, full understanding of the importance of the crew as opposed to sort of this uh this sort of terrible traditional kind of look at like oh you know the that's you know some people look at crew as sort of soldiers and that you know the the folks that are in front of the camera are the ones that are that are super important when it could when the when the opposite is actually the truth. And so was that uh did did that start then understanding that oh my god this is this is really difficult and there's actually nobody on the set there that doesn't need to be there. Well, the only people that don't need to be there are like studio executives and producers. And you know that what I learned probably from my dad. It was like whoever's whoever's you know, kick all the people out of the

room that are not completely completely essential to to the you know, you learn pretty quickly who isn't. You know, they scatter.

Yeah. Yeah., So,, so, grabbing, those, uh, early video cameras, movie cameras, stuff like that. That's sort of pretty common story where you kind of point a camera at stuff and you kind of take little little kid films and you little army men and that's that's not uncommon. But what about the writing part? Did do you remember your first experience looking at a blank piece of paper and trying to figure out how to start from zero? Do you remember that being humbling or or surprisingly easy? That's a really good question because I think you're right that um the story of you know the filmmaker with the 8 millimeter camera and then onto the video cameras like there's a million of them and that's generally how everybody starts. Um but the writing part always excited me um because I liked it. I I I think I I got lucky that I liked it. I liked putting paper into a typewriter

and, typing, out, ideas, and, I, liked, the, I liked seeing it on the page. I liked I liked looking at that idea. Um I I don't know. I from an early age I've always liked writing and formulating things on on paper. And when you learn on a typewriter you learn how to make it right the first time because the last thing that you want to do is, you know is go through that. And I had and I had um this the one

You, still, use, a, typewriter? No,, I, don't., I, mean,, from, time, to, time, I will just for fun to mix it up, but no I don't use a typewriter anymore.

Um, but, I, remember, the, one, um, script, that I had I I think I have to credit my mother for this is I had uh the script for Holy Grail.

Oh, wow., Um, Montipython. Montipython. Montipython., It, was, published, as, a little book and and I loved that movie so much. So, this is like probably 878 or 79, whatever.

By, the, way,, they're, both, like, money python. No, the actual holy grail. You've

done We're, helping, Tracy., Okay. Um,, so, I, was, I, had, the, the, what, what, was the script for that and I and then um I just copied that. I just copied how the the formatting was of that. It was a great way to learn. So, I I think writing is either something that you like doing or you don't like doing. I mean, you know, it's it's Yeah.

I, I, got, a, dumb, dummy, question., When, you no [ __ ] when, you, drive, when, you're, just, driving around like the driving around during the day with your kids or whatever, do you constantly think in images or see images and think of film making? Like do you is it hard to turn it off?

Yeah,, it's, no, um it's it's easy to turn off. Oh,, okay., Never, mind. It's, not., No,, I, don't, like, walk, around like Rainman or something like that. Like because I I I always think of like like whenever I'm driving around I always see like images or like god that'd be such and I see like a frame around it or something. I'm not a filmmaker

especially, when, you, know, like, when you're listening to music do you find that happening Sean all the time you basically start cutting videos right on the big beat change your eyes go right you know and I dork out like that.

How, many, how, many, wham, inspired, movies have you made Sean in your head? Oh, there's, got, to, be, like, 12., I, mean, you know they wake me up before you go was my holy grail. I understand.

You, know,, they're, like, I, was, like, I can't believe there's just, lends, itself, to, a, real, cinematic.

Oh,, what, was, it?, This, could, be, the, best interview. Just I like I just You don't get to talk you I know. And this is why I like it. I just want to hear you guys. I have to tell you my favorite I heard listen to I don't listen to

You, haven't, listen, to, this. I, have., Of, course, I, have., But, the, one joke that stuck with me forever and ever and ever was um Will saying something about um your father Jason and he and by father he meant the security guard at the 20th Century Fox.

That, sounds, about Don't, make, Jason, cry., Don't, make, Jason cry. It, stuck, with, me, where, I, think, about, it. That's what I think about John when I'm driving down the roads. Every once in a while I'll I'll think about something pops into your head. You think, "God that was really really really really funny." And I'll, you know

surprising, when, you're, in, the, car, and you're driving around, you're not thinking about Sean's dad peeling away from the house.

Cuz, he, was, real, handy, in, a, car. Yeah., Still, hasn't, come, back. Exactly.

And, we, will, be, right, back. And, now, back, to, the, show. Paul,, and, forgive, us, for, just, being, such fools. I'm sure we ruined many of your days having to listen to it. But

wait,, I, want, to, know, about, I, want, to know about Okay,, definitely, just, cut, them, off., If you get an idea, start talking.

Go, ahead,, Will. I, just, want, to, get, this, out of, the way. Oscar, Leant, over, there.

I, think, I've, seen, I'm, pretty, sure, I've seen every single one of your films. Okay.

And, always, been, amazed, by, each, one,, but I, just, want, to, get, this, out, of the, way before I forget. Boogie Nights. Is it true that that Leo was up for the part but Mark got it or Leo turned it down because he did Titanic or is there any truth to any of that?

Sean, loves, the, dirt., Paul, that, is, very, true., Is, that, I, asked, Leo to be in Boogie Nights and he spent many many months agonizing and debating about it. Um and and ultimately um

what, I, didn't, realize, or, kind, of, came, to realize about halfway into that this sort of long decision-making process is that he was he had a choice to make which was to either do Titanic or to do Boogie Nights and he chose to do Titanic which of course in the long run catapulted him to this massive worldwide fame. But on the other hand, I think possibly, but I think it was

we, laugh, about, it, now,, but, he, he,, you know, regrets missing the experience and doing it, but yeah, that's that's true.

Yeah,, that's, right., I, just, always wondered that it'd, be, um, Well,, now, you, know.

So,, I, would, have, never, never, known. Will, was your question as good as that?

Not, as, good, as, that., Actually,, that, was very interesting and well done, Sean.

Congrats. I, like, the, idea, of Back, to, Google., Back, to, Google,, Sean., I thought you were going to say

I, thought, you, were, going, to, say, and, I, to this day I still think Leo made a huge error in judgment that you never let it go. But but what was No, my question actually was just simply what was that first thing that you that you wrote and you said I should film this?

Yeah. And, that, you, first, thing, you, actually put to film that you from your own words? Well, I did like short treatments and shot list and things like that, but really the when I funny enough that when I was um 16, just about to turn 17, I wrote a short film that was called the Dirk Digler story. That was what Boogie Nights became. And it was like a 20, it was like a 23 or 24 page script

but, I, did, it, in, the, format, that, was, so popular at the time. And all I had was this sort of bad video camera. So, I realized it wasn't going to look good. It wasn't going to look like a movie. So, I wrote this thing that was about 23 pages long, and it was interviews with people looking back at the life of this guy, Dirk Diggler. Um, oh, A Current Affair was a very popular show at that time., I, don't if, you, remember, that,, but they would always have these insanely overdramatic, you know, and it was so preposterous that it was so trying to find a way into the story that I thought was interesting, which is the pornography that had surrounded me my whole life living where I lived. like it was so obvious what was around me and then writing it in this format was like a doable thing like okay I can get somebody and do an interview with them you know I mean it's a it's a format that's still at work you know um but at

the time it was really like the most convenient and plausible way into a story with the equipment that you had at hand

did, have, you, transferred, that, from, from V was it VHS I, no, it, was, 8, mm, 8, millm, video., So,, high eight, I think. There we go.

Have, you, transferred, it, to, something that'll last? And are we ever going to see it?

Hopefully, not., Hopefully,, it's somewhere. No, it's it's it's it's transferred within an inch of its life. It's available. I think it maybe it's on YouTube. I'd have to look at that.

Oh,, really? Yeah., I'm, not, sure. Wow. It's, not, terrible., There's, still, some jokes that are the same and things then and some pieces that you know remained in Boogie Nights. You know what what was great about that was that what I didn't even realize at the time in terms of the writing in terms of really learning how to write was that I'd created this kind of these fictional characters in this fake documentary right and then I realized what I had to do was adapt that adapt this these fake lives into a movie and I spent the next um well probably about 10 years doing that. So I like wrote a 90page version of this documentary and then I realized well I don't want to do that. That's a kind of that's not the right format for this. I want to write this as a fictional film.

So I did that you know for for 10 years. I guess it was the way that I learned how to write really was practicing telling this story in multiple different ways.

Well, it's, funny, that, that, seems, to, be, a recurring theme with a lot of filmmakers and writers. I know, you know, Kenny Lteran used to do um at back in the Angels in this theater company in New York in the 90s, he did various scene nights on Monday nights where he would do the the scene about a brother and a sister and then just this guy who was kind of lost in his 20s in New York etc., etc. And it took on a bunch of different incarnations, a bunch of different scenes, which eventually then became This Is Our Youth, the play

right, that, my, then, girlfriend, Missy, Joerger was in with Rough Mark Ruffalo and Josh Hamilton

that, then, became, kind, of, really, I, I think the inspiration for uh You Can Count on Me, you know, and it and but it was like this similar story, similar theme that he told in various ways over at least 15 years before he kind of landed on on that.

Yeah., Yeah. Um, I'm, sure, you, can, probably, relate, to that for, sure., You, know,, maybe, there's leftovers and or you're just I don't know. How deep is your well? I guess you just keep

Well,, to, to, that, point,, I, mean,, do, you find that it was basically a a peeling the onion further and further back on a specific theme that you thought this sort of story was a fun example of? Um and if so, what is that theme? Yeah, but that's a Can you write a theme? I can never write a theme.

Well,, I, mean,, but, I, mean,, you, tell, me. You know what you're doing. Um, a theme of being, let's say, uh, the the the irresponsible chase of fame. Listen

I, never, I, never, have, anything, good, like that. I always have like just like no like I never ever have I have more like facts like, well, what would what really happens here?

And, some, steal, from, real, life., Like every, story, was, essentially, the, same, you know? It was like if if the exaggerated version was the guy who steps off the bus and you know kind of comes to Hollywood with big dreams and takes his pants off and then the next thing you know he's a big star and it was any classic rise and fall story.

So, I'm, always, just, sort, of, following, any steps of of reality. I mean I I don't know. I never I get so scared of writing to a theme or having anything like that beforehand. I can remember at a certain point maybe needing help um like like what is the story and luckily enough coming across singing in the rain and being like oh right it's just the same thing as like silent talkies you know this it's this transitional time in whatever industry they're going from shooting on film to shooting on video like use things like this to tell your story and and whatever themes will will just emerge later. Well, yes. So, you write a story and you basically just write a script because it's uh to oversimplify it, you you this this this event runs to this event and this event and this event and now we have an ending and it's a fun story and now you shoot it and all that worked out well. Now you're in the editing room and you start

to shape this, pardon the phrase experience for the audience and it starts to sort of um present itself as a film and you start working with either temp music or the actual score and maybe themes start to develop for you as a viewer as you're viewing it. Um trying to keep the the optics of a viewer. Um

do, you, allow, that, to, happen?, And, then does that inform the way you finish the film and and oh here's here's a little theme that's existing underneath this crunchy story that's kind of fun. Um does that does that do you find that that happens? I find that that's exactly what happens with the exception that that that it does happen a little bit earlier, you know, that that once you

I, mean,, listen,, I'm, not, blind,, you, know, is you as you're writing something you maybe have you you're fighting off the idea that a theme is right in front of your face, but just because you want to try to tell something factually

and, what, ends, up, emerging, emerges, and you can't fight it. Hopefully, you like it. you're you're enjoying what's happening, but you I think it and you you keep a half an eye on it, but really you keep the other eye on what are the facts? What are the facts? What are the facts of the story? You know, um why why is that? Because I don't know. I find films that overindulge in telling me the theme are are annoying you know, and boring. Um, so but yes, to your point that once you and then you get into shooting and you're seeing dailies and you're seeing stuff emerge that is really exciting or stuff that is unexpected and you either embrace it or you say perhaps this is not going in the right direction. But very more often than not, you can't stop what's coming nor should you. That you have to kind of be surrender. You're guiding a ship, but you're also surrendering a bit to the path that that's happening. And you

know, performances kind of get bigger or smaller, whatever ends up happening. Um and then it it just keeps on going and you keep refining that um through the editing and and

yeah, all, that. One, of, the, if, we, can, get, into, staying with the idea of themes, one of the themes of it seems to me of your films is that they're very specific

visually, and, stylistically., um, each, one different in its own way and and but you they do seem so specific in the writing and and so what is your relationship like again going deeper into the weeds on film making but what is your relationship like with um your production designer and your and your DP leading up to when you actually shoot because it does seem like all of your films I told you once at at risk of further embarrassment to myself and and to you um that you know for instance There Will Be Blood I I feel like it should be just hung in in MoMA and left there uh for people to it's an incredible piece of art in every way from the writing to the direction to the uh um to the art direction you know production. What is that like for you leading up to actually rolling film and working with those departments?

Well,, it's, the, great, joy, of collaboration particularly when you're doing it with somebody that you love and and work with. Like for instance on that film I I had never worked with Jack Fisk who's a one of the great production designers who started his career with Terrence Malik and David Lynch. Um they kind of go back to their beginnings together. Anyway, I contacted Jack Fisk and and had written the script and I needed to kind of create I need a lot of help with making oil derks and the recreation of an early California town and there was only one person that helped do that. So it started a great collaboration. Um Jack Fisk was, you know, we were kind of trying to learn how to get oil out of the ground and and and really trying to be really, you know, do do our research. And he said the greatest thing. He's like, you know I found that if you we can just get a children's book about this, it's really

better than trying to really understand how to do it with all this these kind of books that are this thick. Mhm.

And, it, was, one, of, these, great, lessons and like, yeah, get the children's book first and don't be, you know, because it'll have drawings. It'll be simple

and, and, and, it, was, like, wow,, Jack, Fisk, gets, the, children's, book first. All right, that's really good advice. Um, we had the incredible joy of going to scout locations together and find um a place to make this film. And I learned from him, um, one incredible trick that I still try to sort of make true is that the more you can have a location where everything's close together, the more freedom you have, um here's what I mean by that is that if you shoot a scene, you know, over here and you see it a few days later, you think that's the worst scene that we've ever done. We we should really try to do it again. is that you can go do it again.

You, know,, you, you, kind, of, create, your own you create your own backlog. You create your own universe and try as as much as you possibly can to not move too much but to have a variety of different looks and things happening. So that I don't know I'm lost in whatever your question was was kind of like the collaboration that's

well, the, simplicity, sometimes, yields some of the the most complex and sophisticated results perhaps. Yeah. And and

that's, my, role. Yeah., Um,, did, was, was, there, a, similar, uh process with Johnny Greenwood who did the the for Tracy was the composer on that film? I believe it was the first time he'd composed music for a film and first time you guys worked together.

Yeah., Yeah., There, was, a, piece, of, music that he had written for orchestra because he was he was already wellversed in how to write for string instruments. It wasn't like don't let him fool you. I mean, I know he's um

but, obviously, the, his, score, was incredible as was everything else in the film.

It, was, really, incredible, and, um, it's, an opportunity, you know, look, I think I don't now there was no kind of crazy weird instrumentation or something like that. He he does do funny things with instruments where he'll detune certain pieces of the orchestra and keep others in tune. And so he has the ability to make it sound very familiar. you're hearing string instruments, but that sounds just out of body enough that you can't quite place it. So, he's brilliant like that, but that sort of stuff. It's you know, it's nice. It's trickery, but he he he writes beautiful music that compliments the film and they they they go hand in hand and it was the beginning of a beautiful colle.

Do, you, consciously, keep, that, in, mind when you're writing like spaces or do you listen to stuff when you write or

Yeah,, for, sure., I, mean,, I, had, all, kinds of the stuff that I was listening to was stuff that he likes anyway. Was it Pendereki or Schoebird or, you know, um even that the piece that he had written for the BPC orchestra? So, that was already kind of informing where my head was at. Mhm.

Um,, and, it, was, nice, to, go, to, him, and, say like, you know, the movie lends itself too to just to like wide open spaces and like a huge opportunity to fill long gaps of silence with music that can either be gigantically loud or even just simmering underneath. So

it, was, quite, a, good, entrance, into, the game of for him. I, love, that. What's, the, music, that, you, put, on, when you go like pick up the kids from school or whatever? Like what do you what are your bands?

Yeah., Okay., What's, the, music, you, have, to take off the stereo when your kids get in and put on uh

Well,, they're, already, sick, of, that, Smile record. They've been hearing that enough. They're like They're like "Enough with that. Enough. Enough. En enough."

So,, well,, come, on. What's, Pearl, listening, to, right, now? Pearl, is, listening, to, Well,, you, know what she's listening to is anything. And I don't know in any of the the the many of the artists, but um we just we're kind of obsessed right now with this film, The Worst Person in the World.

Yeah. I, don't, know, if, you, guys, have, seen, it. I, seen, the, trailer., It, looks, great.

Ah,, it's, [ __ ], magical,, this, film., And it's got this great soundtrack. So we've just kind of been listening to all this variety of songs on that soundtrack, which is everything from like Harry Nelson and Todd Runging to a lot of new stuff that I've never heard in my life, you know.

Yeah., Um,, I, want, to, ask, you, something about, you know, streaming versus wide release and and where we're at in the business of that. And, you know, I was having this conversation with a friend. And we were talking about how, for example, Westside Story or Licorice Pizza or whatever it is that's out there that's fantastic right now, how that would have fared with a really long wide release run. Would anybody see these things? Are we really truly at the point where we just want to see stuff in our homes? But to the filmmaker, I imagine you want it to be seen on that big screen for because of the genre of film making, right? Because of the thing that lends itself to that. So, what are your thoughts about that?

Well,, yeah., I, mean,, I I don't know. I I kind I kind of I don't know. I mean, I like everything, you know? I mean, I really do. I I sound like Daniel Plainview is like I like all kinds of religions. They're all [ __ ] you know, to me like sticks it in your back.

Exactly. But, wait,, but, but, when, you, make, a, movie, isn't the idea in your head, I can't wait to see this on the big screen?

Right., Absolutely., And, so, with, the, with the business of this business, it just seems to be less and less that if it's not one of these big superhero movies it's going to

Well,, listen,, that's, exactly, right., I mean to that point is um there's probably you know 30 theaters in this country where it would look great and sound great and the rest are [ __ ] filth. I'm sorry but it's like you know and that's the sad truth of it is that I can understand why everybody says like a piss off. I'm staying at home. you know what why you want me to pay for a babysitter and pay for parking and come in and look at this [ __ ] and look at it on a [ __ ] screen that that you guys haven't even you know I don't know it's hard to defend at a certain point

but, I'm, sure, that, if, god, forbid, the, the business became a place where it's only event movies in in in theaters and the only place that you can expect your film to be seen is at home based on its not a big effects thing or whatever. You you'd much rather people see a fil be able to make films and have them see it at home than make no films at all.

Right., But, I, don't, know., I, But, I, think that's kind of [ __ ] too because the reason why is um when all these theaters were opening up again, you know, you have these huge gigantic 25 plexes and stuff like that and everybody was crying. Oh, they're empty. It was like well, but what did you [ __ ] think was going to happen? But if you go to any of the great theaters, let's say in Los Angeles or New York that are playing specialty programming, they're packed with people. They're all turning out. They're film lovers. They're people that you know are going to come out and turn out for this thing. And because there's one theater with 400 seats that they can fill and they can do two shows a day or three shows a day and people will still turn up. It was like everyone's scratching their head, no one's coming back for the movies. is like, well they're not coming back to your these weird horrible pyramids that we've

built. But, Paul,, I, I I, think, that, what, you're maybe you're saying, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but but is there there is a little bit of um well of course they're not going to come back because look what you're putting in the theaters is part of the problem. A and I and and I can say that and I know it's hard for you to say because of your position in the in the films that you make and you probably don't want to be that guy who who who says that but you make the kind of films that you want that are really uh incredible films and at the same time you don't seek out um recognition for yourself in a way that a lot of other filmmakers seem to do. It's never about your own sort of uh you know increasing your personal fame.

So my question to you is how much of that are you aware of show business in fact or are you kind of in your bubble of making the films that you make?

No., Um, I, do, and, then, I, don't, I, slip, in and out of it because I love part of loving um movies as much as I do the history of movies and my you know my obsession with this work which has been with me forever is what I've made of my life. Um, it does involve being fascinated with the the way that it moves, you know. Um, like we were talking about before with Singing in the Rain, you know, that's a fantastic story. The way that what happened to the movie business when it changed from talkies to so I constantly try to keep an eye on that or try to understand it or have enough friends in this business from over the years that I can call up and ask, you know, what does this mean?

What's what does this mean when this film is doing well or what do you what is what is going to happen here? what what tides do you see turning? And it's nice to gauge that stuff. I I I love this business and I love I love movies so much that I have a real interest in seeing it survive, but more often than not, the the volume of my day becomes more about film preservation, you know um and and film history and trying to keep that stuff alive cuz um and then just sort of looking to see what's happening and reacting, I suppose. But I don't know. Um

how, often, do, you, collaborate, with, with Quinton Tarantino on those efforts? Uh because I know he's he's got a real passion for the history of cinema and and and turning turning people on to stuff that perhaps they haven't seen.

He's, great, about, all, that., Um,, but, he he's amazing about it. One of the best but he also really runs in his own lane you know, because he he the person who I collaborate the most with that is Scorsesei because he has the film foundation. He since the 70s, since the late '7s, early 80s

um, went, around, to, every, every, studio, in town uh and said, "Look, you know, this is when it was really tragic when when the the products they had made since you since their existence had were really fading away and dying and weren't being taken care of. You have to this is sort of just on the cusp of VHS coming around in home entertainment." So he was really out there at the very beginning with the film foundation saying this is the biggest cultural historical thing that this country has to to offer and we have to preserve it and we have to take care of it. We have to invest money and time and and manpower into figuring this out.

So being a part of his film foundation has been I mean one of the great honors of my life. It's great.

We'll, be, right, back. All right, back to the show. Paul,, I, know, you're, a, hu, you're, a, big comedy fan and um and you've obviously collaborated with uh with Sandler and you

and, married, the, funniest, woman, in Hollywood. Yeah., Or, in, the, world., Maybe, we, can, just say the world

for, Tracy., Maya, Rudolph., Tracy. Maya, was, one, of, our, first, guests., I I, said, that, to, her., I, said, "You, were one, of the, first, guests.", She's, like, "No, no, I was." I said "I think you were." She was like one of the two or three right?

Yeah., Maya's, one, of, those, people,, as, you know, did, you, give, her, a, piece, of, the, pie? Because she should have.

We, sent, her, a, cake, though. Yeah, she, should, have. But, she, is, one, of, those, people, that anytime you're doing anything funny, you go, "So then it would be great." And then you God, if we could get Maya

just, to, stamp, it. Yeah., You, know,, cuz, she's, so, just How, did, you, guys, meet?, Where, did, that Where did that No, as Will was saying you've been a a huge fan of comedy for a long time. Was it just Did you just fan out on her and and say, "Will you have dinner with me?"

It, was, just, like, that. Yeah., It's, simple,, right? Or did you swipe left or right? How does I, don't, know how, it, works?

See,, Paul,, see, Paul,, it's, not, easy,, is it? It's not easy to bite your tongue with Baitman.

He, wants, to, hurt, me., I, know., I, It, You know, it's funny. Um I'm not sure what it is that it's I guess it's like anything like you know I don't know um there's like you know actors that wanted to be rock stars or um you know musicians wanted to be actors like people that making serious films really just like the one thing they really loved was comedies you know like I I'd made these films I I thought that they were funny but people were saying like it's not

you're, you, make, really, funny well, I, think, I, really. But, you, never, ask, for, a, laugh, and, that's what makes it so goddamn funny. There's no winking. It's great. Sorry.

Thank, you., Cuz, I, Yeah,, because everything everything that that I watched or in my daily kind of existence was just like I just devoured that stuff. And I met Maya when she'd started SNL. Um um and yeah.

What, what, was, that, meeting?, How, did, you guys meet? Well,, you, know,, the, funny, thing, is, is that I

did, she, make, you, laugh, at, home, too, Paul? She She, sure, makes, us, laugh.

She, just, must, be, a, cut, up, at, home. Somebody, once, said, to, me,, that, reminds me, I think I told this once, somebody said to me years ago, when when Amy and I were uh married, they said, "What's it like being married to the funny funniest person in America?" And I said, "You'd have to ask my wife." Um but but I love that. Do you find that funny people are generally pretty serious when they're at home?

Yes. Uhhuh., Nothing, funny, about, it. But, I, do, want, to, know, that., H, how, did how did you meet Paul? How did you in Miami? I really do.

We, we, we, um at, SNL,, right? At, SNL., I, that, was, the, the, time, with Will Frell and Molly Shannon. And I had met Molly Shannon and she said, you know, you could come and you can see how we do this. And at the time I was writing Punch Drunk Love. And I was obsessed with with that time that Sandler had been there. So I accepted that offer to come and look and and watch, you know, behind the scenes. And then Molly said, "Well, you know, you let's direct a you can direct a short." So I directed a short with her in it and just got to kind of witness the inner workings of this whole thing. And at that time, I was also getting to know Sandler and asking him about his time there. I was getting ready to make Punch Drunk Love with him. And as I was getting ready to leave after my week there, my head was spinning. I was like "Well, that was great, but I don't want to [ __ ] do that again." because it

was so much it was a different pace of work and I was thrilled to have done it but that was enough of a taste.

Um, they, said, there, was, a, piece, of, paper that somebody had put in my hands or something like that and I looked at it and it it the information was on it that there was um a new cast member starting next week and her name was Maya Rudolph and I can remember seeing her name on that piece of paper. I don't if you've had any feeling like this, but you see something for the first time and you realize that's my life has just changed. I don't know how. I don't know why. I don't know what just happened. And so

wow. But,, you, know,, quickly, you, kind, of, move on. You just whatever you you have something else to do. you have to eat it, you know.

Mhm. But, looking, back,, I, obviously, it, that impulse whatever that kind of that shining kind of feeling that that can happen to any of us if we're open to it happened.

And, so, I, um, I, roamed, around, and, then, I, I saw her um on television and I saw what she was doing and I had stayed in touch with a few people from the show and said, "My god, this this woman's amazing." And I on on my way back through um I stopped to watch and we met um at the show and then um I had to go on to London and I to to work on Punch No Glove and then I got to London I said well something didn't feel right and I just came back to New York.

Wow. And, I, came, back, and, then, uh that's, [ __ ], beautiful, man. Yeah. So, you come back to New York because you felt drawn back to her and called her and said, "Let's go out."

Yeah. No,, that, I, wanted, to, make, a, joke, in there so badly, but I love that story. I wanted

melted, my, cold, heart. Sean, had, that, feeling,, that, same, feeling of seeing something written when they somebody pushed a flyer for a new Vans that was opening around the corner for

Well,, I, thought, you, were, saying, when, he drove by a new Chin Chin and he had to double back and Yeah.

He, knew, his, life, was I, had, to, turn, back, and, I, haven't, left since. Jason Jason felt the same way when he found out that Deadline Hollywood had an app. Um but but but that is that's [ __ ] incredible, man.

I, love, that., Maya, reminds, me, too,, Paul, that you and I born the same day, same year. Every year she reminds me I think of it all the time. We're we're we're one and the same. Sean June 26th are

June, 26th,, 19 June, 26th,, 1970. You, two, guys, are Yeah., But, what, city, were, you, born, in?

Chicago,, Evergreen, Park., I, was, born, in the hospital in Evergreen Park, but I just say Chicago.

Yeah. You, I, was, born, um, uh, here, in, in, Los Angeles at what is now the Scientology uh center which was um St. uh John's I guess it was See it was No, it was Cedars of Lebanon. It was called

Franklin, or, No,, the, far, east right, there, where, Sunset, and, Hollywood meet that that big blue building

almost, near, Prospect. Yeah., Right., Right, around, the, corner from it went from Catholic to Scientology. that building.

That's, right., That's, amazing. Um,, hey,, um,, you, know,, you, mentioned Sandler. Uh, what was it you saw in Adam earlier than anybody else did?

Well,, I, always, liked, it, when, Adam, would get angry, you know, the violent part of him would come out. Uh, and it was like and I I guess I saw um the story that I remember is there was a sketch called the Denise show um where he's talking to his ex-girlfriend Denise who's played by Shannon Dary

and, and, it's, a, funny, enough, premise, and and he he keeps trying to woo her woo her back but there's a moment when he starts screaming um I think he's I think his dad calls up like is on the speaker phone and he starts screaming at his father and there was a moment where Sandler Sandler scre he he's so invested in it that the whites of his eyes turned black and it like and I could just there was a level of anger and commitment to this performance I said

that, is, something, else, that, he's, not just screaming and being like he he he he potentially is is completely psychotic underneath all of this and I loved it

um that's, great, I, love, that yeah, and, it, was, um, you, know, he, has, a great physical way about him and I um yeah loved working with with Adam.

Do, you, ever, have, any, desire, to especially now that they make so many of these sort of limited series? Does that ever does that ever appeal to you? The idea of being able to tell

400, page, script over, a, longer, Yeah. Okay. I'm I don't know. I want to be careful what I say here because I only over in the past couple weeks have become a little bit preoccupied with the what seems to be a real unfortunate turn of events which is 80 minute stories being turned into like nine-part you know

things, that, it, just, seems, to, be, the, kind of the call of the day like this is what we're doing

when, in, fact, you, know it's, like, piss, off, I, I, don't, this, is this is stretched out way too much, you know? I mean, I was watching um The Purple Rose of Cairo last night

which, is, about, 92, minutes, and, absolutely perfect and is packed so much story.

You, know,, it's, so, interesting, because people say that all the time. They're like, "Oh, did you see so and so? Did you see the new series Blank or whatever?" And they're like, "Yeah, I tried to get it." No, you got to wait nine episodes in the third one, right?

I, know., [ __ ], off. Can, it, be, good, after, the, first, one? Yeah., No., So, I, but, I, only, have, been really feeling this lately when I and I and I don't have a leg to stand on because I haven't really I don't I don't want to sound like an [ __ ] here but I I haven't seen much of it because my viewing always goes like if I have opportunity to watch TV I [ __ ] end up I'm watching old movies you know it's just sort of like my gravity pulls me that way with the time that I have in the day but um you know you know sometimes you have a story that's very large like a large scale story, any kind of epic stories and and those are great and

there, used, to, be, this, opportunity, they would have like the winds of war or you know roots or these these huge miniseries it was like okay that's fantastic that used to be a kind of work of art in and of itself

but, now, I, feel, this, kind, of, slow, motion turn towards stories stretched out um too much I think um I guess underneath it I have a fear that the the painfully difficult challenge of telling a story in preferably under two hours hopefully 90 minutes will start to get lost but because I think it's a very very valuable storytelling to you know that structure is great

I, don't, want, to, see, that, get, lost, um there, is, the, the, the, risk, that, we rewiring how we appreciate those things and I watched that um the story of Neville Chamberlain uh um you know signing the Munich agreement with with Hitler over the Sudatan land, etc. etc., trying to avoid war.

This, was, just, to, unwind, the, other, night to unwind. Yeah. On, Tubia., I, think it, was, on, TV.

Yeah., What, was, interesting, was, was, that he was telling this really simple story that was just a snapshot of that time and of that very specific story and these two guys who tried to uh alter the course of and I realized halfway through I thought to your point I I was like I'm surprised that they didn't try to stretch it out and that they'd actually made this film became quite surprising to me while I was watching it because we've become so accustomed to and our brains are wired to, you know, great. There's going to be 12 episodes of this now,

right? Yeah. Um,, well,, let's, talk, about, the, opposite. Uh, trailers. Um, I think you love trailers.

Yeah. Based, on, how, incredible, your, trailers are, and I think you cut them yourself.

I, love, trailers., Trailers, are, their, own little art form. And um, I I've I have cut them in the past or collaborated with people. Um, the last one that we did was was not cut by by me. It was cut by a guy named Joel, um, who's got a company called Aspect Ratio. And it was one of those great moments where I just handed the film over and said, "Can you do something?" And and it was so perfect right away that we didn't say anything. We just said, "That's it." You know, it was great. And that was a really fun feeling. But

yeah,, I, always, um, that, was, one, of, the joys to me of going to sit in a movie theater. Um, I guess there's people there's probably two types of people in the world. People that like to sit down and watch trailers and then people that like to watch the credits of movies, you know. Um

people, like, to, watch, the, credits, and people that don't like to watch the credits. I like to watch the credits and um,

yeah., Um,, you, once, described, having, four kids in the best way I thought possible and I think I mentioned this when we had my on, um, which was, and I'll I'll mash this up, you correct me, uh, that having four kids is like having four cozy fires burning in the house. Just hearing them run around and and it sounds like you're as much of a homebody as I am. How do you manage to work as hard as you do and still be an incredible father to not one, not two, not three, but four kids? Well, I hope so. I mean, time will tell.

Um, yeah, this is very dangerous. I remember there's these great uh episodes with Lucille Ball um doing these radio interviews from the the mid60s.

I, don't, know if, you've, heard, those., They were on SiriusXM for a little while and there and you hear all these people um talking about their strengths as parents and then you sort of realize, you know that time has really proven quite differently that, you know, there are these people talking about, you know, we really spend time on the weekends and everything else and you're like, uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Stay, tuned, for, the, book. Yeah. But, um Exactly. I, don't, know., You, know,, one, of, the, one of the benefits of writing, I suppose is, you know, the ability to work from home, the ability to be present at home

and, shooting, movies, about, the, valley. Well,, that, helps,, too. Um, to, not, to, not, go, too, far, away,, but even still, I think that it, you know, I don't know. I when I went to London to make Phantom Thread, there was they did come for some of the time, but then they understood that for 2 months, you're not going to see me, you know, but that's okay. out of 12 12 months in a year, as long as I'm with you the other chunk of time, you know, you won't miss me that much.

Sorry,, Jason., When, he, says, be, present, it means that you are where you you are and that you're aware of the surroundings and of other people, etc.

Got, it., Not, just, filled, in. Yeah. Right., Understood. So, um, well,, I, do, I, will, say, I, do, love, I, and this is such a this is almost trite to say, but your your your affinity for your your love of telling stories about Los Angeles uh in in so many different ways, in so many different times. Um, I find it f I find it really fascinating. You you tell stories about the experience of California unlike anybody else. And um because I think that there's always been that rub that California is not as interesting because it's newer

um, that, you, know, that, it's, not, the, east coast and it's always kind of looked down on in this way. But you tell these stories about actually how rich it is. It's just different.

Um and, they've, got, the, Dodgers,, right, Paul? Yes,, they, do. You, know. Well,, yes,, they, do.

Are, you, a, Dodger, guy? Yeah,, I, catch, him, out, there, once., Come on. Hey,, so, Tarantino, says,, "Any, great filmmaker only has 10 films in them. You've made nine. Um, tell me that. Tell me that's not true.

Oh,, that's, horseshit., I, don't, know., I don't I don't understand what he's on about about that. It's just like I need more than one more from you.

Yeah, you, got, it., I, mean,, I, don't, know., I Are, you, going, to, Are, you, going, to, do, it like Clint Eastwood until until they cart you off?

Yes. I, don't, know., Yes., I, think What, else, are, you, going, to, do? Exactly.

I, didn't, I, think, Yeah., What, else, are, you going to do? You have to because your because I would imagine your perspective on stuff changes as you get older. In other words

you, would, have, made, Heartache differently today than you did then. No better, no worse, just differently. I'm sure one bad film.

Yeah., I, want, to, see, what, your, what, your brain is like when you're 85. What's interesting to you and how you compose shots and all that stuff. So, don't stop please.

Well,, thank, you., Thank, you, for, saying that. Thanks, for, making, really, good, [ __ ] Paul.

Yeah., Your, batting, average,, you're, one of, the, [ __ ], greats,, man., I've, I I always tell you that when I see you in person because I can't there's no other I can't dress it up. I just can't dress it up, man.

You, have, You've, really, honored, us, with uh hanging out for an hour. Paul thank, you.

Are, you, kidding?, Thank, you, guys., Really? Please, say, hi, to, my, ass. Yeah,, I, sure, will., I, sure, will.

Our, love. I, hope, I, see, you, guys, um, in, person, for real soon. Um I can hope I can come see your Oscar Levant play, Sean. I I really genuinely am. I love Oscar Levant.

I, would, love, for, you, to., We, are., Are, you playing? Who's playing Oscar Levant?

That, would, be, me. You're, playing, Oscar, Levant. I'm, playing, Oscar, Levant., Yeah.

You, should, hear, him, play, Rap, City, and Blue, too, on piano. You know, he's a classically trained pianist. It's insane.

Paulie,, thank, you, for, being, here., We love you. We love. Are, you, kidding?, Thanks,, guys.

Hopefully,, we'll, see, you, out, at, the stadium if baseball gets her act together.

I, fingers, crossed, they, will., They, will. All, right., Great. Have, a, great, day,, man.

See, you. All, right., See, you., Bye,, Paul., Bye, buddy. Bye, Paul. That was a good gut, Jay. I love that.

Jay,, oh, my, god. I, mean,, I've, been, working, this, for, a couple of weeks with you guys, saying I booked somebody that I'm excited about that you guys won't be excited. I tried to I tried to kind of fake it a little bit. Can't believe it. You know, it's true though. You know, when you when you name all his movies, uh, for Tracy again, I know you said at the top of this episode, but it's Boogie Nights Magnolia, Punch, Drunk Love, um

There, Will, Be, Blood, There, Will, Be, Blood,, uh,, now The, Master. He, doesn't, miss., He, never, misses., And, you know

never, misses. And, there's, so, many, years, in, between, him making those that you're like, "Oh that's why it's so long because he invests everything that he is into these things." That's why what you said nine right? He's only made nine.

Yeah., Something, like, that. Yeah., And, they've, all, been, great., Yeah. He's uh

what, a, what, a, talent, that, guy., I, I'm, I'm really I'm just I I'm I I think I seem pretty casual all the way through that but my goodness is that guy a hero to me.

Yeah,, he's, amazing. Yeah,, same., I, I, you, know, I've, known, him just a little bit over the years from through Maya and uh every time I think at every time I'm always right on the edge at risk of embarrassing myself.

Um, and, I, do, end, up, saying, stuff, like your movie was incredible and I can't get over it and then I have to walk away.

Most, of, the, time, I, have, to, walk, away. I, really, I, I, would, I, I, I'd, love, for, him to make some big broad comedy. the the ones that I know he's a fan of the stuff that uh

I, was, going, to, ask, him, that. Yeah., I, mean,, I'm, sure, he, gets, that question a lot, so I'm glad glad none of us did because I I wanted to ask him that, too. But like, you know, you think about

his, affinity, for, that, kind, of, comedy, you know, Monty Python, um SNL, uh I bet it would just be stunning. But, um

yeah,, he, used, to, be, around, SNL, so, much obviously and and uh I he, must, love, it., But,, you, know,, I'd, like our I liked our conversation about, you know, the streaming versus the the the wide release stuffs because, you know the wide release movies when you go see them, you have to pay for them, but when they're at home, they kind of feel like they're free. So, you don't have to buy

buy. The race to the buy from you is so remarkable. Smart. Smart Less Smartless, is, 100%, organic, and, artisally handcrafted by Bennett Barbco, Michael Grant, Terry, and Rob Armjarf.

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Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "RE-RELEASE: Paul Thomas Anderson | SmartLess"?

In order: 0:00 Oscar Levant, Murderville, SmartLess, SmartLess; 10:00 Typewriter, Prospect in Talmage; 20:00 Boogie Nights, Josh Hamilton, Mark Ruffalo, Singing in the Rain; 30:00 Jack Fisk, BPC Orchestra, David Lynch, Johnny Greenwood; 40:00 Maya Rudolph, Punch-Drunk Love, The Film Foundation, Chicago; 50:00 Aspect Ratio, Dodgers, Emma Chamberlain, Los Angeles; 1:00:00 Boogie Nights, Magnolia, Punch-Drunk Love, SmartLess.

What is mentioned in this SmartLess episode?

80 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Oscar Levant, Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love, Los Angeles, SmartLess, Valley. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "RE-RELEASE: Paul Thomas Anderson | SmartLess"?

The episode runs 1 h 3 min; the transcript is about 12,848 words in 268 timestamped sections.

More from SmartLess

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 18, 2025.