Stephen Graham | SmartLess

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Liverpool, Arnold Palmer, Charles Barkley, Charles Doppelt
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Adolescence, Boiling Point, Benedict Cumberbatch, Gotham Award
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Jack Thorne, Liverpool
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Liverpool, Scouser, Billy Elliot, Bradley Cooper
5. 40:00 – 50:00: London, The Deer Hunter, The Godfather, Ellen Lewis
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: A Thousand Blows, Disney, George Foreman, Graham Norton Show
7. 1:00:00 – 1:05:43: David Lynch, Graham Norton Show, Liverpool, Michael Grant Terry

Notable quotes from "Stephen Graham | SmartLess"

• Uhhuh. Does that mean I'm sleeping on my guys real quick? It's the word was coined by leather worker Charles Doppelt who patented the idea of dopps in 1919 and marketed them locally before landing a contract with the US Army during WW2.

  about Charles Doppelt · at 1:33

• 9:40 this morning. She went to bed at like 3 in the morning. We should do a smartless scavenger hunt. I would love that. I love a scavenger hunt. I do too. That'd be super fun.…

  about SmartLess · at 7:20

• Improvising his way into the role. It was a big movie. He has such a thick Liverpool accent that fans don't often believe it's real. He used to tear up the streets as a teenage break dancer.

  about Liverpool · at 8:08

• This morning I found this out this morning. First of all, congrats on your recent Gotham Award. And Adolescence is the second most watched show of all time on Netflix. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's crazy. Welld deserved.

  about Adolescence · at 13:02

• Then JGO said why don't we turn this into a feature. So we did a little indie film called Boiling Point. and just to go to that pro that you know that you never know what can…

  about Boiling Point · at 16:44

• Scout. If you're from Newcastle, you're called a Jordi. Okay. If you're from London, you used to be called a Cockney. Do you know what I mean? Oh, right. Right. Right. All…

  about London · at 31:03

• In and we looked and he picked these three films. and it was he picked The Deer Hunter, The Godfather, and Taxi Driver. And then we went home and he was Right, we're going to watch these. This is how you do it.

  about The Deer Hunter · at 46:06

• Times? Wow. Yeah. Good for you. It's really cool. He's a lovely And then when I met you, Stephen, at the Graham Norton show just in February and you were so I mean I just [ __…

  about Graham Norton Show · at 51:42

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Steven Graham — Person · 2 mentions · first at 8:33
  And I've been a fan ever since. It's the ridiculously talented and allegedly intimidating Steven Graham. Hey, Stephen Graham.
• Charles Doppelt — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:36
• Charles Barkley — Person · 1 mention · first at 4:06
  This game. Literally watching the game along with the audience at home, doing their own commentary. We had Charles Barkley kindly called in. He was amazing. He was hilarious. And then our buddy Aler.
• Arnold Palmer — Person · 1 mention · first at 4:27
  Oh, Narles Barkley. Yeah. You think maybe Narles think that the Arnold Palmer was Do you think Arnold Palmer the golfer gave himself the name after the drink or Sweet Sean? Hey, by the way, Sean, think about how sweet Shawn is. Franny, my.
• Benedict Cumberbatch — Person · 1 mention · first at 17:13
  For best British film. I'm nominated alongside Will Smith and Leonardo DiCaprio and Benedict Cumberbatch all for doing a mate a favor. Wow. And so we had proof of concept with…
• Owen Cooper — Person · 1 mention · first at 19:38
  Light changes when the your son the actor's name is it Owen Cooper. Yeah. Owen Cooper who's brilliant. Owen Cooper when he gets moody, did the light darken in those moments? Am…
• Jack Thorne — Person · 1 mention · first at 20:48
  One to screw it up. Well the beauty of it I mean and it was also look it was beautifully written by Jack Thorne our wonderful writer who constructs the human condition so…
• Damon John — Person · 1 mention · first at 33:45
  Minutes from the city center. Yeah. Do you know Stephen? You must know John Bishop. I not personally, but I've not personally. No, no, I've never met I've met him a couple of…
• Bradley Cooper — Person · 1 mention · first at 35:01
  Set it in New York, Stephen and I wrote it with an Englishman with Mark Chapel and Bradley Cooper directed and Bradley's in it with me as well.
• Marcus Garvey — Person · 1 mention · first at 44:44
  Pops who you know I love to bits whose who raised me like I said you know he taught me about my history Marcus Garvey Malcolm X Tusant Lobachure all of those things about my…
• Malcolm X — Person · 1 mention · first at 44:46
  Who raised me like I said you know he taught me about my history Marcus Garvey Malcolm X Tusant Lobachure all of those things about my historical you know background and where…
• Martin Scorsese — Person · 1 mention · first at 46:44
  You said you wanted to be in the six years later you're in Gangs of New York with Martin Scorsese. yeah, that's crazy. That was so fast. Another incredible film.
• Ellen Lewis — Person · 1 mention · first at 47:12
  Read and put yourself on tape. and so I went into London and I I met Ellen Lewis, who's wonderful. we just had a really lovely time and I read this these couple of scenes and…
• Shane Meadows — Person · 1 mention · first at 49:22
  A wonderful story. I was doing a a little series over here called The Virtues with Shane Meadows.
• George Foreman — Person · 1 mention · first at 56:04
  Fighters. No, he didn't. If you listen to some of the things he used to say, especially to George Foreman, some of the things he said to him was, they were horrific. And Patty…
• David Lynch — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:01:14
  Yeah, that was all that kind of David Lynch skill, wasn't it, and everything?
• Seph Meyers — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:01:34
  I am in New York. we got here on Yeah, we got here on Monday. and then Seth Meyers, I think we're doing today, this afternoon later on. and then I'm going to go home. And to…
• Michael Grant Terry — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:05:29
  Smartless is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarve, and Bennett Barbco.
• Abdullah Ali — Person · 1 mention
• Drew Schofield — Person · 1 mention
• George Harrison — Person · 1 mention
• Mark Chappell — Person · 1 mention
• Matt Lewis — Person · 1 mention
• Paddy the Baddy — Person · 1 mention
• Paul McCartney — Person · 1 mention
• Phil Barantini — Person · 1 mention
• Ringo Starr — Person · 1 mention
• Robert De Niro — Person · 1 mention
• Toussaint Louverture — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

• Adolescence — Book · 2 mentions · first at 13:06
• Boiling Point — Book · 2 mentions · first at 16:48
• The Deer Hunter — Book · 2 mentions · first at 46:12
• The Godfather — Book · 2 mentions · first at 46:14
  Three films. and it was he picked The Deer Hunter, The Godfather, and Taxi Driver. And then we went home and he was Right, we're going to watch these. This is how you do it properly. Let's watch these films. And.
• Graham Norton Show — Book · 2 mentions · first at 51:47
• Billy Elliot — Book · 1 mention · first at 34:49
  Accent and anything? Not really because we didn't want it to be too much, too like Billy Elliot or Full Monty, you know what I mean? Like all due respect to those movies, we…
• Scully — Book · 1 mention · first at 37:04
  Called Drew Scoffield lived there and he was an actor and he was on television and he was on a show called Scully which was really popular and that was about a young man who…
• Taxi Driver — Book · 1 mention · first at 46:17
  The Deer Hunter, The Godfather, and Taxi Driver. And then we went home and he was Right, we're going to watch these. This is how you do it properly. Let's watch these films. And we spent the whole weekend re-watching.
• Gangs of New York — Book · 1 mention · first at 46:43
  20s, you were in G like 14 years old, you said you wanted to be in the six years later you're in Gangs of New York with Martin Scorsese. yeah, that's crazy. That was so fast. Another incredible film.
• The Irishman — Book · 1 mention · first at 49:07
  The three movies you mentioned was The Godfather, and then you're with Pacino, in The Irishman. Well, can you imagine that phone call to me dad? I mean that's incredible. That's incredible. I had to go to it was a wonderful story. I was.
• The Virtues — Book · 1 mention · first at 49:22
  A wonderful story. I was doing a a little series over here called The Virtues with Shane Meadows.
• A Thousand Blows — Book · 1 mention · first at 52:33
  Promoting a movie where you train to be this boxer and the movie is called A Thousand Blows. It was you had a TV series on Disney. A Thousand Blows.
• The Full Monty — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

• SmartLess — Company · 2 mentions · first at 7:23
• US Army — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:43
  Who patented the idea of dopps in 1919 and marketed them locally before landing a contract with the US Army during WW2.
• Toronto Maple Leafs — Company · 1 mention · first at 2:41
  No. No. It might be the smoke from the U Canadian fires. I think that's the Toronto Maple Leafs fans still a handful up there. What happened? Did they win? Dude, they're still burning stuff down. They're so Shots fired over there.
• The Beatles — Company · 1 mention · first at 36:07
  Forward. Do you know what I mean? So, this is kind of now the fellas in the Beatles, did they have famously thick Liverpool accents? But back then the accents were slightly different. and obviously it's changed but they yeah all of.
• Disney — Company · 1 mention · first at 52:35
  This boxer and the movie is called A Thousand Blows. It was you had a TV series on Disney. A Thousand Blows.
• BAFTA — Company · 1 mention
• Everyman Youth Theatre — Company · 1 mention
• Gnarls Barkley — Company · 1 mention
• JGO — Company · 1 mention
• Liverpool Football Club — Company · 1 mention
• UFC — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• Dopp kit — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

• Scouser — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 31:25
  So, so no, it is. So, yeah. Scouser is so a scouser is someone who comes from Liverpool. Yeah. Who's like a true Liverpoolian who has a you know who's right sort of Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You.
• Gotham Award — Concept · 1 mention · first at 13:06
  This morning I found this out this morning. First of all, congrats on your recent Gotham Award. And Adolescence is the second most watched show of all time on Netflix. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's crazy. Welld deserved.
• GCSE — Concept · 1 mention
• Transcendental Meditation (TM) — Concept · 1 mention
• WW2 — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• Liverpool — Place · 14 mentions · first at 8:12
• London — Place · 3 mentions · first at 31:08
• Toronto — Place · 1 mention · first at 2:41
  No. No. It might be the smoke from the U Canadian fires. I think that's the Toronto Maple Leafs fans still a handful up there. What happened? Did they win? Dude, they're still burning stuff down. They're so Shots fired over there.
• Newcastle — Place · 1 mention · first at 31:03
  Well, well, it's if you're from Liverpool, you're called a Scout. If you're from Newcastle, you're called a Jordi. Okay. If you're from London, you used to be called a Cockney. Do you know what I mean? Oh, right. Right. Right. All.
• Scotland — Place · 1 mention · first at 31:12
  Called a Cockney. Do you know what I mean? Oh, right. Right. Right. All right. And if you're from Scotland, you're called a jock. What? So, it's different where all these come from.
• Kirkby — Place · 1 mention · first at 33:35
  So, so you grew up in Liverpool or outside a little of Kirkby. Where's Kirby? Kirby. It's just kind of like 35 minutes from the city center. Yeah. Do you know Stephen? You must know John Bishop. I not personally, but.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:06 Hey guys, good morning. I'm drinking some tea. What do you got? Uh, spit. Spit in my mouth. That's about it. Welcome to Smart List. Smart. Smart. Smart. Hey, what do you got? Do you call it a toiletry bag or do you call it a do is it do kit? D kit. D is we went through this on stage in front of thousands of people. Oh, I don't remember things. Wait, what is Do you Do you not remember? No, we were in we we were on tour. Uh we were in Washington DC. He was our first and we and we got Sam Jones that as a gift, right? Didn't we?

1:02 I don't I I don't remember that part. I don't know. Memory is a little soft. But what does do what does do kit mean? Dop. It's German, right? For toiletry stuff. It's It's German, man. Remember we somebody somebody in the audience yelled it out and they said it's I forget how it came about. Anyways, yes. Dop dokit. Hey, what? Why? Go ahead. Go ahead. I was say why what happens in the morning when you like I constantly I'm constantly clearing my throat today. Uhhuh. Does that mean I'm sleeping on my guys real quick? It's the word was coined by leather worker Charles Doppelt who patented the idea of dopps in 1919 and marketed them locally before landing a contract with the US Army during WW2.

1:46 And that he was a German leather worker. I think he was American. Let's see. Well, it sounds German. More to come next episode. Doppel D O P E L T. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm looking at it, too. I also have the internet, Bennett. Um, so congrats, guys. It's like when we get back, you know, when we've brought this up before and people go, I did my own research like, "Oh, you've got Google. [ __ ] off." Yeah, exactly. I know. Takes like 5 seconds, you know. Um, so last Oh, sorry, Sean. We were trying to get to some business. Sean's like, "Yeah, I know. It takes five seconds." So, my story that I've got ready. No, I I was I was actually actually serious about like the I can't stop clearing my throat. I don't know why. Does that mean I'm getting sick? I don't know. Or do you want to reschedule today's recording?

2:36 No. No. It might be the smoke from the U Canadian fires. I think that's the Toronto Maple Leafs fans still uh a handful up there. What happened? Did they win? Dude, they're still burning stuff down. They're so Shots fired over there. Um, are they not doing well? It It's They've That's an understatement. It's been a minute. It's been a tough I haven't mentioned it since. It's been a while, but they lost again in another game seven and it was really I can't believe I still haven't talked to you about it. I watched all three periods of you and Biz doing your commentary on that on that game with your with your Blazers on. I can't I mean, I sat there. I had the clicker in my hand the whole time. Never punched it. just watched you two. I want to see it. Blather on. You know what the best part was? And and I took a shot at you cuz I said baby was supposed to be you.

3:27 He's like literally a mile away and he didn't less than a mile away. Smiling at you saying, "Yeah, you know, he might he might even stop by during this." And I was just like laughing myself on the DJs. Yeah. But you know, we we the best part was they go, "Do you guys want to go do this?" And Bis and I were like, "Yeah, let's do it." And we get there, we do the pregame, and then we go to this other studio to start this kind of alt cast thing. And then just the dude goes in five, four, three. And I'm like, we do we we don't Hey everybody, we had no plan. You can tell sitting in chairs.

3:59 Yeah. And then we had like commented on this game. Literally watching the game along with the audience at home, doing their own commentary. We had Charles Barkley kindly called in. He was amazing. He was hilarious. And then our buddy Aler. Yeah. Also amazing. Sorry, Sean. You think Charles Barkley's a singer? I always think he's the singer, right? Isn't there a singer named Charles? Narles Barkley. Do you think it might have gone the other way? Oh, Narles Barkley. Yeah. You think maybe Narles think that the Arnold Palmer was Do you think Arnold Palmer the golfer gave himself the name after the drink or Sweet Sean? Hey, by the way, Sean, think about how sweet Shawn is. Um, Franny, my eldest listener, um, she had a, uh, a scavenger hunt last night and I guess one of the one of the boxes they had to check was get a picture with a celebrity and Sean was nice enough to stay up until introduce them to some

4:50 celebrities. That was so nice. All right, this 10:30, 10:45 or something, she drove over to your house with all of her friends and took a shot of you. Yeah. I'm like, what's what's going on with your dad? Can you just take a shot with him? I guess I don't count. I guess yeah, it didn't count because Yeah. Now, did you go through the works before they got over there? Were you Was your hair makeup was all set? Check out that photo. It's horrible. I look like I'm 95 years old. Oh, so you checked it. You said, "Let me see it." Yeah. Well, I did it myself. I cuz you know when somebody stops and asks for a photo, which is so kind. I always grab the phone. I said, "Let me take it." Because it takes me 2 seconds to open the phone. Otherwise, it takes half an hour for them to wait. I got to find my, you know, my phone icon.

5:28 I'm like, "Just give it to me." And so, I took it with all them cuz it's a scavenger hunt, so you only have 5 seconds. So I said, "Everybody who wa I don't know that rule. What are you talking about? You only scavenger hunt. You got to get your thing and you got to go. You got to get the thing on the list and go." So um but I had to hang out with them for like 5 10 minutes because their friends were in another car. Anyway, who who cares? And I took a photo myself and it didn't look great. But Franny's the sweetest. I hope this is going to be in your book. I mean, yeah, that's ribbon. You know, you telling me that story about taking the grabbing everybody's phone and taking the picture yourself all the time. And I immediately go to all the germs that I would be taking on my hands by touching everybody else's phone. You know, it's the dirtiest thing in your life. Your your your iPhone. I think your mouth is.

6:11 No, it's dirtier than your toilet seat. Again, again, I just want to point out, are are you watching people drop dead on the street or something? Because we're all fine. No, it's just it's just a gross factor. I'm not worried about getting sick. It's just I did though, but I did want I did Franny texted me earlier in the day. She's like, "Are you going to be up like about between 10:30 and I'm like, "Yeah." And um and then and I'm watching the Osama bin Laden documentary and I'm completely falling asleep. It was really interesting. So good. And and yeah, it's amazing. Oh, really? And it's so interesting. And um and then I go I'm just falling asleep on the cushion mix. I go to sleep. I'm I'm going to fall asleep. And she's like, "We're here." I was like, "Oh god." And the doorbell rang and I freaked out and I went outside and then I my phone goes off at like 1:00 in the morning and she's like, "Are you still up? Want to

6:58 retake cuz I think they needed something else. I needed Yeah. Oh no. And then I just text. That's like the worst are you still up text you can get. You know what I mean? On the scales of you still on text. Yeah. It's not what you think. It's can we get a photo with you? Exactly. Maybe the photo was bad, but I was freaking out. I hope she got I hope she won. Do you know if she won? I have no idea. She hasn't surfaced yet. It's 9 9:40 this morning. She went to bed at like 3 in the morning. We should do a smartless uh scavenger hunt. I would love that. I love a scavenger hunt. I do too. That'd be super fun. Yeah. So, how would that work? The three of us would be individually against one another. No, no, no. It's not for us. It's for our fans. It's for, you know, for people who like listen to the podcast and then we end and then we have like a whole Yeah.

7:42 God, that sounds What's the What's the What's the prize? You're so angry about it. Adopt kit. Adopt kit. Adopt kit. Nice kit. Well, and because you wrapped it up with such a nice bow, uh Willie, we're going to move on to our guest today. Beautiful. Oh, nice. Who's it? Is it yours today, Shnie? Delicious segue. Oh, you guys are going to love this. This is so exciting. Um, he got his first big break by tagging along to a friend's audition and improvising his way into the role. It was a big movie. He has such a thick Liverpool accent that fans don't often believe it's real. He used to tear up the streets as a teenage break dancer.

8:18 So did I. And he's been punched, stabbed, and screamed at more in more scenes than I can count. But somehow he's the most gentle guy in the room. I met him once on his native soil, the UK. And I've been a fan ever since. It's the ridiculously talented and allegedly intimidating Steven Graham. Hey, Stephen Graham. Hello. Hello, gentlemen. Good morning. Look at that sweet face. Who would beat that? That was a world class reveal. It was just as so dramatic. It was great. And often times they're very much that was very good. Uh now will do you want to get started on the Liverpool uh football club? No. We're going to end on that.

9:00 We're going to end on the on the glory on Liverpool. Okay. Cuz I'm a massive supporter, Stephen. A massive supporter. So we'll get Will. Nice. Great. Can I jump in on the scavenger hunt thing? Um, I was at a mate's dude because we were in LA for a little bit and and I heard about this cuz my wife was there at guy's house, right? Yes. Guy Guy Richie. Uh, close. Did we let him? Oh, wow. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My wife is Amanda. Amanda was there. Uh, she was she was probably the one that was made your ears bleed just a little bit when you were wondering why. No, she was talking quietly in the corner with somebody holding their arm. Oh, yeah. Or it was Yeah, her. No, I did. Yes, she was. What's the story, Stephen? What What happened? Just during the day, a friend, we went to his sister. She graduated, correct? Um, and she was telling us about her scavenger hunt that she was going on. And I'll tell you

9:54 what, there was a bit risky some of the stuff that they get really high points for. I know. Oh, really? Like what? Dangerous. Like, I mean, eating a bagel off a man's penis. No way. Up on that, Jason. Isn't that true? Jason, did you win that? Did you win that one, Jason? Well, you know, you need to get a unit that'll actually fit inside that hole. And so, I just had that for breakfast today. Wait, Jason. Amanda was doing this. What's happening? It was a little bit more of a bali um for me. But, um, wait, that's crazy. Is that real? Like crazy [ __ ] like that? Well, here at this party, right, Stephen? Uh, this was also get a picture with a celebrity and at your party there were there were some real celebrities there. Sean, all due respect. Sure. Now I get it. We're talking about uh, you know, the tops in the business like Stephen and you know and there was a whole group photo so they got major points I'm assuming.

10:51 Yeah, we went outside and took a photo. It was Yeah. Um, but it but it was just when they were explaining to us in the in the morning what kind of things actually happen and how many points you get for certain things, it just got rather disgust than I thought. Really dangerous. My my eldest said to me when he was doing his a couple weeks ago, he said, "Hey, can I get my nose pierced cuz I'll get massive?" And I was like, "No." What? Yeah. Get your nose pierced for points. Yeah. I think one of the funniest ones was if you make out with one of the parents.

11:20 Oh parents. Really? I self wrote that in. You can write and forensic forensic handwriting check for Jason on that one. There was also to drink a shot of certain bodily fluids as well which I know. Yeah, I was disgusted. Jesus Christ. I thought, what the [ __ ] are these young people doing these days? I know. Wait, so Stephen, I'm an idiot. This is somebody here in LA's house's daughter. No, no, no, no, no. It was a friend's sister who was telling me about and the sister were telling us about what it what it was. Yeah. Now, do you have kids, Stephen? I do. Yeah. And thank God mine don't do any of this scavenger hunt [ __ ] Well, hang on. Are they Are they old enough yet? How old are they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

12:00 Alfie's 18 and Grace is 20. And so, you're saying they they never did anything like this in high school? We we just don't have that kind of behavior where I come from, Jason. I think that's normal. That's normal. I don't think they're being honest with you, Stephen. Yeah, Jason. I one of the major things my children are is honest. Now, we do the mooney, which is like stick your ass out of a window. That's as far as we go. Correct. What do you ever do? Or against a window, which is a pressed ham. Well, that used to do that. That was always on a bus though. That was on a bus. On a bus on a bus. Yeah. You do that one on a bus. Then but then the worst thing was you do it and then the car that you did it to would pull alongside you later on in the traffic and Yeah. We used to do that when we go to football with the Yeah. What would be the name if you press it against the window and you spread it? What would be the name there?

12:52 Oh god. Sliced hand. Yeah. There you go. Thanks. That's what I'm here for. Um Stephen, first of all, thanks for being here. And by the way, I just found out this morning I found this this out this morning. First of all, congrats on your recent Gotham Award. And Adolescence is the second most watched show of all time on Netflix. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's crazy. Welld deserved. My goodness. What a what an accomplishment. I mean, it truly I mean, we and and I know you've talked about this a lot because I've seen it uh out there and I and I watch the show. You're It's fantastic. You're fantastic. Also the co-creator of the show. Yeah. which is no small feat for people to understand. You know, they might see it see the credit and the creator and you think like, okay, well, he's got that's just another hat. It it's the amount of work and thought and years and preparation that goes into just being

13:43 the creator of the show and then on top of being in it and then on top of that doing it, shooting it all in effect live in one shot is so impressive. Um, so I I and I know you've talked adnauseium about that aspect of doing it, but for people to really understand what it takes to pull off doing an entire episode, each episode of that program live as if it were happening in well, it was happening in real time and not just in one location, but but getting into vehicles and moving to different locations. everything that goes in that, the preparation that must have gone into that. Uh, when you came up with the idea of the show, was that part and parcel with it?

14:26 Was it like we're gonna do this show, tell this story, and we're going to do it this way? Well, to be honest with you, we um we did a the whole thing kind of began with me doing a favor for a friend actually, my my mate Phil Barentini. Uh he was an actor and he and he just one one day he just phoned me up and he said, "Look, I really want to direct. um would you would you help me out in being in a short film? And I said "No which is what you should do." I said, "No." He was like, "What?" I went, "Well, go and make your first short film and then we'll have a look and then we'll we'll we'll talk again." Good. I don't want to be part of the experiment.

15:03 But of course, but it's also Jay, you know, it's that kind of well, show me what you can do, fish. Exactly. Yeah. So, he did. did he went and he and he made this be Oh, also though, he was asking me if I would play the the trainer to a boxer. And the lad who who he who was going to play the main role was a boxer and an actor. And I said, "Well, doesn't doesn't Robbie have a trainer?" And he was like, "Yeah." I was like, "Well, just use Robbiey's real [ __ ] trainer." And he was like, "Well," I went, "Cuz he knows what he's doing." I said, "Has he got a good face?" He went he went, "Yeah, he looks great." I went, "We'll cast him then."

15:33 He's like, "I got [ __ ] to do. That's a really good idea." I was like, "Yeah, just use him. they've got a relationship. So he did anyway and it was really good. But to get to the point, Matt, who he'd met, the DP had this glorious idea of doing a short film in one take but setting it in a restaurant. So again, Phil said, "Look, Matt had this wonderful idea. I think it'd be really good." Cuz Phil used to work in the restaurant industry. He was a chef for a long time. Um, and it was just this concept about a a shift at work. Um, and this man going through a bit of a, you know, lots of troubles at home and trying to navigate that in work and also he has his own addictions and stuff. So it was like, look, we'll shoot it in 22 minutes. That's that's how long the tape's going to be. And I was like, that sounds great. How many days? And he went, "Five." I said, "I'll give you three." He was like, "Oh, okay." I went,

16:22 "We can shoot it in three." So we did. We shot it in three. And the primary purpose of it was to try and use it as a calling card to get Phil an agent. Mhm. So I give it to my agent. She sent it around the office and literally within four or five days he was having meetings and he then got his agent JGO and that was how it happened. So it was all starting to do a favor for a friend and then JGO said why don't we turn this into a feature. So we did a little indie film called Boiling Point. Um and just to go to that pro that you know that you never know what can happen from these things as we all know with this industry you just don't know. Cut to 3 years down the line, four years down the line, we're sat at BAFTA and films nominated for best actor. The film's up for best British film. I'm nominated alongside Will Smith and uh Leonardo DiCaprio and and um Benedict Cumberbatch all for doing a mate a favor. Wow. And

17:20 so we had proof of concept with that particular piece and then we were asked if we would be interested in turning it into a television show and that's basically how it all began. So then so then Boiling Point is uh similar to the story in Adolescence. It's a completely different story but it's all shot in that one take format and that's more controlled. It's an environment. It's all set in a restaurant in a in a in a kitchen and in a restaurant and it's this one particular shift and I think the film is an hour and maybe an hour and 15 and and the and the the um the thinking behind the the the creative effect uh that you guys were were were were aiming for by by having it all intact in one take and not distracting the audience with any cuts whatsoever or coverage or anything like that. uh was was what did you guys ever kind of put words to the the the the the purpose behind only one take aside from just

18:17 like the the the incredible rush the creative challenge of that. I think that was that was it basically Jason to be honest with you is that kind of trying to grab the audience's attention straight away. Um, look, and you have kids, I have kids, and you know, we live in an age where we I mean, I don't know if this we'll be watching a film, but yet they're still looking at the phones, and it's kind of like putting that down. We're trying to watch a film in many ways. Do you know what I mean? So, it was that wanting to grab the audience's attention, but also make sure that it wasn't just a gimmick shot and hopefully, you know, that's what we achieved, but the movement of the ca of the camera perpetuates the story. Yeah.

18:52 So there's kind of like straight away decided that we could never just move the camera to move. So what that does then as well is that kind of helps you, you know, it's like we all jump on a train and then we don't get off until we finish. But but but but but for people to appreciate and and we all sort of work in this medium so we understand but to really appreciate the difficulty not just the not just the closing of the roads not just the the you know hiding crew in camera and all that kind of stuff but the light changes for instance by the way there is that am I wrong did I I'm like did I imagine it there were light changes when the when the your son um the actor's name is is it Owen uh Owen Cooper. Yeah. Owen Cooper who's brilliant. Owen Cooper when he gets moody, did the light darken in in those moments? Am I right about that or is that obvious or No, that was really that that was very subtle. Um, and that was

19:52 also a decision that that Matt kind of made right at the very beginning. There's there's moments where it does subtly change. Um, and Phil wanted that concept, that psychological aspect of of it just changing slightly dramatically within the changing. Was that a lighting cue or was it an iris ride? Um, it's a lighting queue kind of. It's a lighting cue within the police station within the cell when he's when he's brought into the cell. I mean, think about that, JB. I mean, think about making that call. So, you're doing all that stuff. You have all these different and then in the moment you got to get it right and you have there's a basically a lighting queue in the middle of it in the there's so many elements happening at once. The logistics. Yeah. Logistics. Yeah. We'll be right back.

20:34 And now back to the show. And so the obvious question which I had which how many takes did you do and like did I mean I'd be so afraid to be the one to screw it up. Well the beauty of it I mean and it was also look it was beautifully written by Jack Jack Thorne our wonderful writer who constructs the human condition so beautifully and so amazingly and we had that kind of discussion right at the very beginning what it was going to be and how we were going to try to put this story across without pointing any fingers. But it's just that kind of accountability of of parents, you know, maybe the parents are accountable. Um this the school system, the education system, the society and the community where they live and also the government. And also on top of that, you know, you have the internet which none of us had when we were kids. So we we've never have to navigate that kind of thing. You know, if if an incident

21:23 happened in school, it was kind of finished by the end of when the bell went and then you you'd pick it up again the next day. Hopefully it didn't continue too much. But today, if anything happens on their phone straight away, it can carry on. So, it's that perpetual kind of fear that some of these kids live in. Do you know what I mean? With with incidents happening in school. But to go back to that, it was more that kind of to navigate it the way we did. Um, and make sure that everything is bangon. We did, it was a different process. So, you spend the first week just working through the script, which we never have that luxury, do we? We never have that luxury to be on set with the writer and a director and just discuss the words.

22:03 Yeah. Well, that's exactly what it is, Sean. It's that, you know, it's that beautiful process of being a theater company and having this brand new script. So, we we take it to pieces. It's kind of, and I don't mean to be pretentious, but it's kind of like analyzing every single word like you would a check off play and understanding the importance of it and why it's there and why it's being said, right? So, we spend that week just immersed in it as the actors and the company. And then the second week we spend the whole week rehearsing with the camera team, the sound department, the ads like you said where we were dressed in police uniforms or you know um teachers in the school.

22:38 So we then spend all of that week having a whole dress rehearsal and by the end of that week by that following Friday we'll go for a little take. We'll see what happens and then when you get back in on the Monday we do we go for two takes a day. Um, so you do one in the morning about half 10, have lunch, reset, and then come back again in the afternoon. So it's a beautiful experience. So ultimately we were looking at hopefully trying to get 10 takes by the end of the week. Wow. But episodes two, three, and four were all the final take of each one. So it was that final Friday. So, I think take um episode two was take 14. Wow. And it was the only time that the drone actually got attached to the the camera got attached to the drone. It flew up. I don't know if you remember that in the school where it it flies up in the air and then it comes down and then it gets taken by the camera department and it comes to where

23:37 I'm stood with the flowers. Insane. It's insane. Now, imagine that though, will this is I mean the wind had been [ __ ] so we we didn't have a take at all. So, it's the final Friday afternoon and and it's all going great and I'm sat in the I'm sat in the I'm sat in the van meeting an executive to producer listening to Sarah on the radio. Okay, go. So, we've got the kids coming out the thing and it's and I'm listening to it all. It's like, okay, that's good. That's good. And it's like, okay, drone's attached, the drone's up. And I'm like sitting there going, okay, so the drone's up and then I see it and I see the drone. I'm like, oh, wow. Okay, so the drone and then I see the van coming around the corner. I see all the fellas jump out the van. I see Matt run over to the as the drone. They catch the drone. Matt takes the camera and then I go, "Oh, oh [ __ ] I'm in it. Oh my god."

24:20 And your headphones off and Yeah. I remembered I was in it and I've grabbed the flowers, composed myself, and then I've opened the door and got out. How about that? And we managed to get that take, but the the the picture went off when the drone was attached. So all everybody back at base had no idea that we'd completed the scene. Right. Right. They were just holding their panicking. Yeah. It's just it's so I mean just aside from just all the logistics, the sequencing and all the planning and all that stuff, the the fun of that and the excitement of that, but specifically for this subject matter and the the and the way that the scripts are constructed and and this this linear storytelling, it's it's A goes to B goes to C goes to D and you're, as you said, on a train and you can you never get off. You're never tapped on the shoulder by an edit uh and knocked out of your trance. You're staying in this one shot and you're

25:17 you're stuck in the best sense of the word and you can't stop watching and you it's just it's so propulsive and uh it's just it's it's a it's a it's a it's such a perfect concept to use this device with. JB and I I I'll add to that which is that I think that linear storytelling is is something that that we kind of take for granted and and don't we sort of try to get away from and try to dress stuff up and there is something because of the way that you told it and and it is there is no cut to distract you but also because it's happening in real time. You feel less like you're watching it and more like you're in it. Yeah.

25:53 Exactly. Right. Right. And so it's much more immersive in that way. You feel like you're Do you know what I mean? You're not It's not performative. It's not something that you're you're you're not observing. You're actually in it. Yeah. And and and and given the subject matter, it's very uh uh visceral. Yeah. You're so affected. It's it's like you just step on the audience's neck and you don't get off. It's outstanding. That was Thank you very much. They're lovely things for you both to say. That was kind of one of the things we thought of at the very beginning. And we, like I say, Jack's one of my favorite writers of all time. He's a wonderful man. I've worked with him six times. Um, and Jack's kind of idea as we'd create the story was to to grab the audience, but it also it he said what it gave him as a writer was a lot of freedom because a writer is totally, you know, with writing that script, he's totally in

26:43 kind of control of not just what the story is, but also the rhythm of how it moves and how it's set and the kind of pace of it. Yeah. The music of it. And then you're just immersed like you said it's that kind of voyeristic element but as well conventionally you know the story would be told but it it'd be slightly disjointed and you could go to any point in time but when I said from the very beginning look this goes over 13 months and we're just going to grab the audience four times in this story but it's going to be for an hour and we allow the I think what we did as well was like you know treating the audience with respect and with intelligence. Let them fill in the gaps. Mhm. And it doesn't have the answers and it and it wasn't open. And as an actor, was it exciting to be inside of that of the take of the 1 hour knowing that you know no one can get to you just like theater? So like between action and cut,

27:37 you're dictating the pace, the rhythm, the timing, everything. It'll never be it'll never be changed. It'll never be manipulated by an editor's choice or a director's choice or um a a scene won't be cut. Um, so all of your all of your your ideas about how you're going to arc out your performance is completely in your control. Well, you worked it out beforehand though. I mean like Yeah, but still but like each you say you do this once it's rolling. Yeah, exactly. So each take can be completely different. I mean, everybody has to hit their marks because of all the technical um uh sequencing, but there's still there's there's just performance stuff, you know, is going to be married to this particular version of this episode. This particular take will always be my reaction to her line is always going to be that it's not going to be taken from take two married to her reading in take seven. Like, it's all it's it's all

28:33 unique to that one piece. Kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. you've hit the nail on the head because you know as we all know when you perform there's you we're not in control of the choices that get made um which which we all understand and that's great great Frankenstein yeah completely they take the little bits like you just perfectly described but with the process of this and again you know back in Sean as well we have that wonderful rehearsal process like we would with a play but then you're right on the day no take was identical to the others because what what it does and again I Look, I'm a workingass kid from Liverpool. Dos, do you know what I mean?

29:09 I can't sound pretentious. By the way, but you you you never run the risk of sounding pretentious for clarity. All right. All right. Good. But it's And now give me a moment cuz I may do. Um, but it's the most zen I've ever felt as an actor. And it also puts you right in place. You did it. You did see us. That's what me that's that's what me microphone's leading on. Do you know what I mean? So it's not I'm just saying it for shits and giggles. That's I love that. So in the same respect it's that kind of you know you're completely like you said will it's that immersive experience for the audience but picking up on you it is for the actor because you have to be present truly present and what it does is to me acting is all about listening and reacting. Oh you know what I mean so you're constantly you're constantly listening and reacting to to what's being what's being what's in somebody, as you know, Stephen, I had

30:04 this discussion with somebody very recently. They said, "Oh, is it hard to memorize lines?" I was talking about this having lot lots of dialogue and Jay, I know you just came off something where you had a lot of dialogue and and the truth is, as we all know, it's not hard when if you're present and the person says something to you, you're what you're going to say next makes sense to them. You don't have to memorize because it makes sense what you should say if the writing's good. You know what I mean? If the right Yeah. If the writing's good. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but that's what I love about your process about like it being like theater. You can discuss like I don't know that I would say say that I would say I feel like this would make more sense and that collaborative experience probably made it all the better completely. But um yeah, tell me about Wait, so I want to talk about break dancing. First of all,

30:47 what's Scouse? So like Scouse is what scouse is that is that scouse is like a terminology for the particular type of person who comes from Liverpool. We we It's like a It's like a subset of um Well, well, it's like, you know, if you're from Liverpool, you're called a Scout. If you're from Newcastle, you're called a Jordi. Okay. If you're from London, you you know, you used to be called a Cockney. Do you know what I mean? Oh, right. Right. Right. All right. And if you're from Scotland, you're called a jock. What? So, it's different where all these come from.

31:19 Like, if you're from Beverly Hills, you're called the douche. Right. Right. So, so no, it is. So, yeah. Scouser is uh so a scouser is someone who comes from Liverpool. Yeah. Who's like a true Liverpoolian who has a you know who's right sort of Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You know working class. Why do people think you're faking the accent when I read? I have no idea. That's how I've always spoke. So to me weird. I don't know. It's I've never heard that one. All right. Tell me about break dancing because I was I did it too and I would I would absorb the pain and then walk away like that was really fun but I'd be in so much pain. Like I never did the head spins or anything, but I constantly was break dancing. It was just It was just We did cuz you did it in Liverpool and I did it like I was like I'm like when I read that I was like I did that too.

32:07 That's so crazy. Where where was you when you did your over dancing? Oh anywhere anywhere there's a [ __ ] dinner theater. Anywhere that there there was a piece of cardboard. I would just go watch this and do the Well, we used to we we even bought lino. So you you know the lino that people used to put in the kitchens back in the 80s. We used we used to carry our own bit of lino um ghetto blaster and uh it was like back in the days of Electro 7 and Grandmaster Flash and Melly Mel and the Furious 5 and all that kind of stuff and we just yeah it I don't know it was just this whole thing that just popped up. Obviously it came over from America um and it ended up in a little town where I'm from Kirby and we used to go and do it in the town center. We'd I don't even because we couldn't watch videos or nothing like that to work out what they were doing.

32:54 So, I don't even know how we I think it got past but now it's an Olympic sport. Isn't that funny? See how good it is. It's amazing, isn't it? To the next level. How are the outfits? Were you Were you proud of your outfits and your hairdos? Yeah, I used to have a sh I had a shiny shell suit back in the day. Something that you could spin on. Do you know what I mean? Parachute pants and like Yeah. Yeah. Sean. Sean, were you in like an Adidas tracksuit or were you like MC Hammer pants? No. No. I but I did have parachute pants cuz I thought they were really cool. Yeah. Um I used to have I used to have a really lovely velour Adidas. Oh, yeah. Nice.

33:30 Wear that straight to bed. Yeah. Lovely. Uh so, so you grew up uh in Liverpool or outside a little of Kirkby. Where's Kirby? Kirby. It's just kind of like 35 minutes from the city center. Yeah. Do you know uh uh Stephen? You must know uh John Bishop. Um I not personally, but I've not personally. No, no, I've never met I've met him a couple of times socially, but I don't know him personally. Yeah. Okay. That's the guy you did the film that's based on Willie. Yes. Who's also who's also a Scouser? Yeah. The film that we did is is based on his life. Yeah. His story. I When's this film coming out? But I thought you would uh fairly soon. Yeah. We just uh I I met John by chance and and he told me a story of how he became a stand-up comedian which is a really kind of an interesting story and he kind of by mistake and uh he was going his he was separated from his wife and they were getting divorced and he went to uh um to

34:24 do standup. He he went to go for a drink and they were charging a cover because it was open mic night and he put his name down just so he could get in and they called him and he had a few and he went up and just started doing standup and then he it was quite cathartic and he started going back and he didn't tell anybody and that's how he got into standup. Will did you ever discuss doing it as him and doing the whole Liverpool accent and anything? Not really because we didn't want it to be too much, you know, too like Billy Elliot or Full Monty, you know what I mean? Like all due respect to those movies, we just wanted to tell a difference. So we we set it in New York, uh Stephen and uh I I wrote it with an Englishman with Mark Chapel and and Bradley Cooper directed and and Bradley's in it with me as well.

35:05 Will, do you think you could do a Liverpool accent? Yeah, you can. No, it's tough. It's a tricky one. It is quite tricky. Yeah, cuz you hear me say it's a tricky one. Like there's a kind of like an almost like See, but then he sounds a little bit like Miss Doubtfired. It's a tricky one. Children, let's go. No, we don't speak like that. It's a very difficult accent. That's why I just kind of I leave it alone that one. It sounds like there's a little bit of Scottish in there. Is it is is Liverpool North? Yes. Yeah, it is. And it's kind of I think it's an amalgamation of Irish Scottish, but also kind of because of the docks and the pollution, it's kind of to do with nasal and throat kind of extractions or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Will's got that. There's a science behind it. There's a uh there are there are a lot of Irish uh people who immigrated to Liverpool. Uh yeah.

35:53 Yeah. Because it sounds a little bit Irish. Well, a lot a lot of scouters I say scar is scouters are just lazy Irish that couldn't be asked going through America. When the boat came, they just stayed at Liverpool and didn't move forward. Do you know what I mean? So, this is kind of now the the the fellas in the Beatles, did they have famously thick uh Liverpool accents? But but back then the accents were slightly different. Um and and obviously it's changed but but they yeah all of all of them Paul Ringo Leo and George Le George George obviously um they all have that Liverpool accent but theirs was a lot more kind of singy at the time. Do you know what I mean?

36:28 It's more meloical and like like a nice little notes and things. That's the that's the go-to when anybody does an impression of a little. So wait, so you so growing up there, what what was your window to want to be an actor when you were break dancing? You're like, wait, if I'm not a break dancer, I'm going to be a for me it was there was it was really interesting because when I was about I think 11, we were doing a play in school. Um, and across the road from my nana's house, uh, a wonderful man called Drew Scoffield lived there and he was an actor and he was on television and he was on a show called Scully which was really popular and that was about a young man who had this dream and this fantasy of playing for Liverpool and he was the lead role in that. Um, and he lived across the road from my nana's house and no one in my family was ever into the arts or anything like that. You know what I mean? My me and my dad used

37:22 to go to gallery and stuff like that and everything and and heavily into films. My dad got me right into films when I was a young lad, but no one had done anything like that. But I could see Drew across the road and he was on the telly every week. So it made me realize that it was a possibility. Um and he came to watch a play we did in school. His nephew was in the same play and at the end of it he said to my mom and dad, he said, "Look, I think Steven's really talented. You should look at maybe taking him to a youth theater or something." Well, thank thank God. Do you know what I mean? I did. I went to the Everyman Youth Theater and that's kind of where it all started. How about that? Did you ever think along the way in high school, uh maybe I should uh do my studies in such a way where I can get into a college and maybe study up on another career? Was there ever a backup?

38:08 There wasn't, but there was also that kind of I went to I my intention was to go to university and and you know um if I could if I couldn't make it as an actor but give it a go then I would hopefully fall into being a teacher um that was kind of the other role I was looking at and the other way of going down. Mhm. Like an elementary teacher that that teaches all subjects or or specializing in one in high school or college teaching drama in like a high school. Do you know what I mean? cuz over here we have GCSEs and stuff and that kind of so that secondary school being a being a a drama teacher that was another possibility that I looked at or if not believe it or not I wanted to be a fireman. Yeah, sure. Why not? Same. Um now wait but but this is pretty wild.

38:52 Like I I had no idea with a fireman. Yeah. Be with a fireman. No no it's fire the firemen and village people. That guy [ __ ] going That's right. I keep forgetting that's what it is. Um, wait. Your dad, your biological dad was Jamaican. And my granddad was from Jamaica. Yeah. And your and your stepdad African-American? Yes. Yes. Pops. Pops family. Yeah. Um, Pops, you know, has been there since I was 10. So, he's the man that's raised me. He's my father. And And did you ever talk to your biological dad? I mean, when he was Yeah. Yeah. We, you know, we we haven't spoken for a while. There's no animosity there, you know. I suppose kind of threw that. But he didn't he didn't. Sean Sean, are you familiar with this area?

39:34 Yes. Yes. Oh god. Hang on. I got to get that dad calling. One second. Can you Hello. Sometimes you grow apart, don't you? You know what I mean? In many ways. Um or sometimes you just drive away. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's the running joke, Stephen, that my dad left when I was five. Anyway, so um Okay. So, and you and you have siblings and and then did he really leave when he was five? Did he Oh, yeah. He sp he spun the wheels. He he just threw it and threw it and drive and there was Yeah. They they didn't see any warning signs. I mean, other than he bought a sports car, a two-seater work sports car. Wait a minute. Well, let's let's be serious for a second. Did he Did he Did he Did he just Did he say I'm just going to go to shop? I'll be back in a minute. Get some milk. No, he he was in he was in a a Korean War and he came back and he married my mom. The Korean War or the Korean War? The Korean

40:25 War. Okay. loved him. He was in the He was in the army and then he came back and he married my mom and had five kids and this said, "This isn't for me." Mhm. Back to Korea. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know where. I don't know. I'd rather be back in a war theater than be part of this [ __ ] So, we Hang on. So, five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he made the decision to [ __ ] off. Yeah. Selfish bastard. If you spend a lot of time with Sean, it you'll it'll make sense. Yeah. No, wait. Wait, Sean, what number are you within that five? Five.

41:00 What? What? What number are you within that five? Are you the first? I'm the youngest. I'm the youngest. Yeah, he's the one that really sealed the deal. [ __ ] me. Well, he stayed for the first four, Sean. Yeah, you were the one. I'm sorry. Bang on the money there. I mean, he put up with four and he was around. As soon as you came, it was like, get the [ __ ] out of Sean. Sean, do you think it was the break dancing? Do you think that was drove to the Miata? I ain't I ain't raising any kid that does that. Sean, you really were the straw that brought the camel's back, weren't you? I really was.

41:30 Do you get a lot of therapy now though, Sean? Oh god, I love it. Totally. I love it. Yeah. You know what I got to say? Of all the jokes that we do about it, there is Sean is so in front of this trauma, if you will, in a way that you talk about it in such a very healthy way, which is why we do joke about it for our listener because sometimes people are like, "Man, you guys are really rough on Sean." No, I mean the way that we deal with stuff, all of us, is by laughing about it. Yeah, totally. And it's earned laughter because you've been through all the processing and all the therapy and now you you landed in the And I don't know, Stephen, I grew up Irish Catholic, so I we stuffed everything. So my therapy is to talk about the [ __ ] that I could wasn't allowed to talk about when I was a kid. Exactly. And uh so it feels good to do. That's why I talk about my mom's fake eye. Anyway, yeah, Stephen.

42:15 Yeah. So we we can move over to the mother now. you with her just the fake eyeball adnauseium. We talked about Steve just was like what we brought his sister we were on tour and his sister brought the eyeball out on stage uh and opened it in a box and stuff and we took it out. It was it was a lot of fun. Stephen doesn't know whether we're kidding or not. No, it's true. So your mom had a fake eyeball? Yeah, we were never allowed to ask about it except glass eye then. Yeah. Glass eye. Yeah. Yeah. How did she lose it? Nobody knows. She can't still can't find it. No. Um, she had cancer when she was 2 years old and so they had to take her eyeball out. Anyway, it's a hilarious story. Is your mom still alive? Uh, nobody knows again. No, she passed away. No, but the eye is No, she um she passed away Oh god, six years ago. Maybe seven years ago.

43:10 Anyway, um I want to talk the irony that you don't remember in that in that uh she Well, I know she it was January of 20 21, no 2019, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But look how well balanced you are. Look at whatever it is. It's yielded a nice young boy. You're not a mess. I I mean it. The way that you talk about it, you that you're so open about it and that you have come out the other side, as JB said and done all the work, it's it is very healthy, inspiring to be honest. It is inspiring. We'll be right back. And now back to the show.

43:49 Wait, so you had brothers and sisters growing up? Yes. And were they interested in what you did or No. Um, not not really. No. Um, they don't do anything near what you do. My life's very complicated cuz with that biological father similar to yours, he went off and he had four children to four different women. Wow. Yeah. But but you know, look, everyone each of their own. I'm all right now. I'm out the other side of it. Are you an only child from uh from No, I'm not because my mom and pops, they had Nathan who there's a 20 year gap between me and Nathan. Older or younger? He's my little brother. I'm 20 years older than him. My mom had me when she was 20 and she had our kid when he when she was 40. Um Wow. So it the beauty of that though is I was I had all my time with my mom who God bless her soul I adored and all that time with pops who you know I I love to bits whose who raised me like I said you know he

44:44 taught me about my history Marcus Garvey Malcolm X Tusant Lobachure all of those things about my historical you know background and and where my my origins are from so I was given all of that beautiful information by him so I was always educated in that respect and then when I was ready to leave to go to university at the age of 20. Nathan was born. Wow. So, we never had any of that sibling rivalry and and I love our Nathan to bits. You know, technically, look, he could have been my child. You know what I mean? That that kind of thing we that age difference is there.

45:16 But, it's it's a wonderful relationship I have with Nathan. And it's a beautiful relationship I have with my my dad who's there for my kids massively. I love that expression our our Nathan that that you get like my friend uh who grew up in um sort of the west country they say like our mark you know I love that there's something really endearing about it and it just sort of the inclusiveness of it and it you know it's sweet this sorry just to pick up on that point as well when I was when I when I when I I was about 14 and I said I I think I really want to be an actor dad was like all right come on let's go and I was like what and he was like do you want to do it properly and I was like So he took me to the video shop. Remember the oldfashioned video shops? You go. It's like a library. Yeah. Blockbuster video.

45:59 It was before Blockbuster even. This was just a local video shop. Just a little one little independent ones. And we went in and we looked and he picked these three films. Um and it was uh he picked uh The Deer Hunter, um The Godfather, and Taxi Driver. And then we went home and he was like, "Right, we're going to watch these. This is how you do it properly. Let's watch these films. And we spent the whole weekend re-watching those three films. Wow. Which is which is your favorite from those three? That's a tricky one, isn't it? I love the deer hunter if I love the deer hunter.

46:38 I love And then when you were in your 20s, you were in G like 14 years old, you said you wanted to be in the six years later you're in Gangs of New York with Martin Scorsese. I mean, yeah, that's crazy. That was so fast. Another incredible film. mind blown as well to be a part of. What was what was that like from the moment that you knew that it was a project that was happening to getting an audition to being there? Can you It was it was um I I got the call from my agent and said, "Right, we need you to come in and do a read and put yourself on tape." Um and so I went into London and I and I I met Ellen Lewis, who's wonderful. Um, we just had a really lovely time and I read this these couple of scenes and then I went away. Um, and it was one of them, you know, where you don't air for like four or five weeks later and you kind of go, it's over. There's no chance. So, as a job and actor and a young lad, I had

47:30 to go for this. We've all done it, lads. Let's be honest. I had to go for this bag of [ __ ] audition and I really didn't want to go. It was [ __ ] awful. But I'm on the train. I'm sweating. I'm on my way into London. You know, you got to pay the rent, haven't you got to eat? So, I'm there and I'm like and I'm going through this [ __ ] awful script and I'm like, "Okay, all right." Yeah. Having a coffee and then the next minute goes and it was my agent Jane and she said to him, she said, "Are you sitting down?" I was like, "Yeah, I'm sitting down." She went, "Right, okay. You've got that part in Gangs in New York." I was like, "What?" She went, "Yeah, they came back today. You've got a flight to you've got a flight to Italy." Say this was Friday. You got to fly to Italy on Monday. Marty wants to sit down and talk to you and go through the character. And I was like, what? Then I was made up.

48:14 God. But then but then the best bit was I went does that mean I don't have to go for this audition now? No, you don't have to go for that. I was like, thank [ __ ] And so then I flew out there and you know and and we met and and it was wonderful. And it was just a wonderful experience. That's where I became friends with Leo as well. That's when we Yeah. Leo. And there was some story about a golf cart or something. You rode a golf cart around the set? Yeah. I tipped a golf cart over and I nearly broke his leg. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay.

48:44 Yeah, you can get really messed up on those things. Yeah. Yeah, you don't realize that they're dangerous. I think that if you go to my Wikipedia page and you look at my filmography, Stephen, they all fall under the category of you have to pay the rent. Uh, for what it's for what it's worth. Okay. Well, and and then and then this is wild. So, one of the three movies you mentioned was The Godfather, and then you're with Pacino, you know, in The Irishman. Well, can you can you imagine that phone call to me dad? I I mean that's incredible. That's incredible. I had to go to it was it was a wonderful wonderful story. I I was doing a a a a little series over here called The Virtues with Shane Meadows.

49:24 And it was it was a wonderful uh experience and and on the Friday I had to fly to New York to to go to Marty's house to to meet Robert Dairo because Rob was an exec and you had to meet him and he wanted to, you know, make sure that I was right and and things like that. So So you can imagine how nervous I was and I had to fly to New York. So I I finished work I think first thing Monday. They let me go early. So I had to fly out and then I got there and literally I had to land go to Marty's house and and see Marty and then I met I'm sitting there and then Bob comes up and he's got his little cap on and he's got a paper underneath his arm and pair of shorts and a little baggy [ __ ] and he's like hey and we it was it was unbelievable. It was amazing. We we had a wonderful afternoon. But Ellen had said to me, "Look, he doesn't really talk much." So and I'm thinking, "Oh shit." She's like, "So you might have to

50:13 make some conversation." I'm like, "Okay." Anyway, cut to we were there for about 2 and 1/2 hours and then and then I and then they went like, "Right, okay. You best go." And then I said, "Have I got the part?" And when I can't I can't leave now without knowing if I've got the part. And then Bob was like, "Just give us a minute. Go on. Just just give us a minute." And I was like, "Oh [ __ ] Okay. I've tried me hardest. I don't know if this is going to work. I hope so. I don't know if he likes me." First of all, he was like, "You're not Italian." I'm like, "No, I'm not Italian." Um and and so then I come back in and I sit and he goes he goes, "Sit down. Sit down. I'll let Marty tell you." And then he Marty was like, "Okay, kid. So, uh, do you want to do this?"

50:48 And I was like, "Of course." And then and then and then I got a hug off them. And I felt like, you know, in all the films when I felt like I was a made man. Do you know what I mean? I killed your boss. Yeah. Or to be taken out the back and two in the two in the head. Um, and then you can imagine that phone call to my dad and and the pride gets me emotional. Just think about it a little bit. You know, I'm a young kid from a block of flats, a young mixed race kid who had a dream to be an actor and and my dad took me to that video shop like you say, Sean, and then the next minute I'm phoning him up saying, "I'm going to be in a film with Robert Dairo and Alpuccino and being directed by Martin Scorsesei." So, you know, that's really cool, man. It's one of those beautiful stories, man. It's And Martin Scorsesi is is famous for many things. One of which though is is his kindness and his warmth and his spirit on set. Um, and

51:38 you've had the chance to work with him. um at least twice. Have there been other times? Wow. Yeah. Good for you. It's really cool. He's a lovely And then when I I met you, Stephen, uh at the Graham Norton show just in February and you were so I mean I just [ __ ] loved you right away. You were so normal and kind and like it was that's such a fun show. They should they should air. Stephen, what did you think of Sean? I mean he said that about you and be honest and be brutally honest. He was lovely. It was wonderful. He was like a ray of sunshine. Yeah. Sean was a ray of sunshine. Yeah. He was lovely.

52:13 Your Sean see look see the endear in there. Your Sean was lovely and really wonderful. Do you know what I mean? He he was very gregarious. It was lovely. And afterwards I was like, "Oh my god, you got to come on the show." So it's nice of you to wait. But uh you you were promoting a movie where you train to be uh this uh boxer and the movie is called A Thousand Blows. It was you had a TV series on on Disney. A Thousand Blows. Yeah. set in set in the 1800s that way. And and um I haven't seen it yet, but those clips I was like that looks incredible. Oh, go ahead. 1 Jason and I are just looking at each other. Who's got the joke here? Yeah.

52:50 Who wants to go on a thousand blows? You have it? I don't have it yet. I'm still writing it. If you're there, go ahead. See, my misses went as soon as they said right thousand blows. My misses went Sounds a bit like a top shelf. I mean, it's just it's like It's Sean, right? It's it's like my my summer in Sean Hayes my summer in Mkos Blows. So, my time here on Fire Island I imagine it's different than that, Stephen. Yeah. Uh the movie. Are you Are you Did you train Did you Did you train as a fighter? Yes, I trained. Oh, sorry.

53:31 You're asking him. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. Will Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah, I did a lot of boxing it. [ __ ] loads of protein and did Yeah, it was it was great. I had six months and I got into the best shape I've ever been in. Yeah. I mean, you're very young. I mean, you're not 20, but you're still pretty young, but I'm 51. Yeah. Yeah. To do all that training at 5. That's crazy. Like you were you a boxing fan or are you Yeah, I've always been a boxing fan. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you feel about where boxing is now? Have you transferred over to UFC or are you still a purist with the boxing? I like UFC. Um I I just I just I'm not 100% on the kind of look, it's attracting audiences. I get that. I understand that. But I think it's gone a little bit sensationalist now. Um and kind of I'm a I'm I'm I'm more of a fan of the pure art of pugilism, do you know what I mean? And

54:22 the belts. And I feel like the belts are important. And to be number one in the world or a world champion is an important thing to be, do you know what I mean? I'm I'm going to say something that's maybe unpopular, which is that my my problem with the sort of the MMA in general is that there there is a to me anyway, there is a kind of a darkness around it that I find uh you know around the culture of it that I that I find me off. Yeah. There's something about it there. Boxing you get that is the sort of the purity, right, of the the sweet science. Is that what they call it?

54:54 Right. The sort of the art of it. And and of course there's a ton of art to MMA and I'm not disparaging what the what the athletes do, but the sort of the the culture around it to me there's a I don't know there's there's a sort of a darkness to it. I just me start starting with them doing it all in a cage the optics of it. But it's still it's it's really fascinating and it's multi the multiple disciplines inside the inside that cage too is kind of cool. So yeah, I'm I'm conflicted on it myself. And to me though, one of one of my favorites is Paddyy the Baddy, who is also a scout and he's he's great. He's fantastic. No, he know this guy. He's so He's so funny. Is he a boxer? He's a He's an MMA fighter. He's an MMA fighter. He's so profoundly funny to me every time I see him. God, he's good.

55:45 And he's tough as nails. Yeah, he's amazing. He's f He's brutal, but he also he also doesn't take himself too seriously at all. And I love the kind of showmanship of that kind. Look, Ali was the best showman we ever had. Um, but you know, he also and you and you go, "Yeah, but Alli respected the other fighters." No, he didn't. If you listen to some of the things he used to say, especially to George Foreman, some of the things he said to him was, you know, they were horrific. And Patty the Batty, he uses that and that that thing that you guys the scowzers do of calling everybody lad and and and putting lad in everywhere. And and and there's something sort of dispar hilariously disparaging when you use the term lad.

56:22 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. Have a look at him, Jay. In some of his videos, he's really funny as well. He's very sharp. He's really Is he What What weight class is he? I'm not too sure. It's It might be lightweight. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, all your tattoos, did you have to Did you just not cover them up or or No, I did. I did. Yeah. Which that was You spend like 50 minutes in the chair getting painted when we did the thing. Yeah. It's It's And then they don't come off in the shower. The the cover up and it's really And you had you have a a a tattoo of your nanny or for your nanny or something. And I I never heard this term a fairy cake. We just call it a cupcake. Yeah. I mean, no, my nana, she used to when we were kids, she used she used to make fairy cakes.

57:07 Um Yeah. Cupcakes. Cupcakes. Okay. Yeah. Fairy cake. Yeah. Nothing on nothing on fairy cake. Will. No. I'm sorry, JB. No. No. I'll give you I'll give you a couple more minutes. Go ahead. Continue with the interview. I never um I never heard that before. I never heard anything. No, no, no. Not obviously not a lot of Americans have um cakes. Did you um uh So then what is your what what you're not doing these incredible projects, Stephen? Um what what is something uh what what what is your what is your primary hobby? It's not I bet it's not boxing. Um, what is something that that that uh occupies your time that that people might be surprised about? Um, oh, meditation. Yes. Um, meditation.

57:59 I've I'm I'm constantly trying to learn how to do that without falling asleep because it's like right on the edge. No, he's bang on the door. You may laugh, but that's the key. Yeah. The key is not to fall asleep. There's a wonderful practitioner called Muji. Um, if you get a chance, go on YouTube, have a little type in Muji and have a listen to him. His his voice is fantastic. But his pointings and his teachings are wonderful and and he always says, you know, look, try and the basic aim is to try not to fall asleep in many ways with meditation, but in the same cuz that's that but if you think about it, when the head shuts off most of the time is when you're asleep, right? You know, that's when the subconscious comes into effect.

58:37 But predominantly it's that kind of trying to stop the white noise and that constant pounding of the head to step out. But it's just allowing it to Oh, where have I gone here? It's just allowing it's trying to get it's trying to get your brain to think about nothing, right? And then but then but then that's the key. Sorry, Jason. That's the key, isn't it? We're trying to get the brain to think about nothing. And in that trying, you're already doing. So it's that kind of just letting the clouds pass. Yeah. I love that. Do you know what else I've got into? If you thought ice baths, but not in an egotistical sense, just that kind of like maybe two, if you do two minutes, it does everything your body needs physiolog.

59:16 I've been doing it for 10 years. I've been doing it for 10 years and it it's been a game changer for me, man. Absolute game changer. And it is that is I don't I I wish I could meditate like JB. I've thought about it. I've sort of I've gotten apps before and I've tried it and I've had and and I remember somebody saying to me once like imagine a stream and and leaves are falling off the stream and each thought is like a leaf is each thought is like a leaf and then just let it go with it a little bit and then you can just reset back under the thing. I just started doing it and and it does work but I do it in the cold. I do. I get in that thing where I just I'm like, I'm going to do three minutes and I just think about my breathing, think about my breathing and then Yeah. When I first started doing when I first started meditating, this is I'm talking about a month ago, like really doing it. I started every single

59:59 time I would do it, I'd start to cry because my brain uh works overtime constantly from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed, I'm like constantly thinking about and it's going 80 miles an hour from anxiety, whatever. And then so I didn't I didn't and sugar and I didn't know what to do with myself when I'm still. So I I would just start welling up and I was like but now I'm not anymore. That's good. Is that sitting in Yeah, you seem fixed for sure. But it is it's that look it's you can do you can be mindful with anything you do.

1:00:30 You don't have to. The art of it itself is the art. The practices don't be the art. Do you know what I mean? At least you're taking that time. You also might be out of tier. Sean might just be rebuilding the well. But there is that thing of also like when you're doing it and then you hear like you you isolate the sound of the refrigerator running or whatever and that's okay then think about then then focus on that then allow those things and it's just it's the allowing is the constant and then when you when you're done with the with the meditation you really do feel calmer and more focused and present and I mean have you ever tried TM? Have you ever Stephen have you ever tried TM? I haven't wanted to do that. What is that? Oh transcendental. What's the difference?

1:01:09 Yeah. I don't really know, but I guess that that's a different it's a different practice, the transcendental meditation. Yeah, that was all that kind of David Lynch skill, wasn't it, and everything? Was it? Yeah, I think so. Stephen, you you we've taken up way too much of your time. Thank you for being Not enough of your time. God, I could talk to you forever. I know. I love you. I agree. Um, where are you right now? And what are you going to do the rest of the day? I am in New York. Um, we got here on Yeah, we got here on Monday. Um, and then Seth Meyers, I think we're doing today, this afternoon later on. and then and then I'm going to go home. And to answer your question as well, Jason, my family is is my favorite thing to do in the whole family. I feel very blessed and very I'm very lucky and I'm full of gratitude that I have. I have the most amazing wife and and two gorgeous kids.

1:01:54 I love them to bits. I love that blessing. Well, we love you. Thank you for being here, Stephen. Thank you, Steve. Big big fan. Huge fan of your Keep Keep going. Keep going. Thank you. All right, my friend. How do they say how do they say goodbye in Liverpool? I don't know. Tada. Tada. Tada. I never heard of that. Tada. Tada. T. Enjoy the rest of your day. See you, buddy. You, too. Take care. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Sean, what a guest. I love him. I mean, I when I met him when I met him at at the Graham Norton show, I was like, "Oh, I totally know Steven Graham." Like, I know his work and and uh but I didn't you never know how anybody is. and and I met him. We ended up just talking and talking and I'm like, he's such a great human being, a nice spirit, great vibe.

1:02:45 Yeah. And so talented and in so many things that we all know, you know, so many big movies and TV shows and he's been a really highlevel character actor for a long long time. Like you probably like if you like put one of your one of your favorite movies on you haven't watched for a while, you go, "Oh, there he is. There's Stephen Graham." Yeah. What another another great example we were talking about recently of somebody who had talent came from uh didn't come from an environment that was conducive to making his way into showbiz and had a mentor had somebody who said hey this kid's great he should go here and just another you know yeah we've talked about before you need that next that next stage of people that believe in you after your parents I'm still looking I believe in you Sean on. Look at me.

1:03:35 I'm looking at you. Hey. Yeah, you're great. Oh, no. Your eyes are crossing. Your eyes are I'm trying to find you. I'm trying to find you. Um, so, uh, Jason, Jason and Will, I had I I ordered Remember when I told you I was in Ohigh? You know what the worst part is? Is just [ __ ] It's his face. So, I'd love to watch you change lanes on the highway. You must put your car into a four-wheel slide when you do it. I love I'm still laughing at So Fair Kicks, listen. Um, so no, I I really did order some when I was in Ohio last weekend, I ordered some tea and it was it was hibiscus tea.

1:04:18 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the opposite of hibiscus tea would would probably be chamomile. Are are you trying to get us to say bibiscus? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's not a thing. That's not a word. We do that sometimes, but it's not the same. No, no, sorry, Jay. I I deciphered that. I mean, we we almost needed the Enigma machine for that. I was nowhere near I was I can't believe you got that. I was nowhere near that. Hibiscus. Okay, let me do another one. We know what we just planted. Did you see him click the file? This is what you do today.

1:04:56 I was in the um I was in the backyard and we we planted some um hydrangeas. Okay. Okay. And so um after we were done and I walked away, I said, "Bye, hydrangeas." That one's not bad. Jesus Christ. Sorry listener. We'll see you next time. Smart less. Smart less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarve, and Bennett Barbco. Smart less.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Stephen Graham | SmartLess"?

In order: 0:00 Liverpool, Arnold Palmer, Charles Barkley, Charles Doppelt; 10:00 Adolescence, Boiling Point, Benedict Cumberbatch, Gotham Award; 20:00 Jack Thorne, Liverpool; 30:00 Liverpool, Scouser, Billy Elliot, Bradley Cooper; 40:00 London, The Deer Hunter, The Godfather, Ellen Lewis; 50:00 A Thousand Blows, Disney, George Foreman, Graham Norton Show; 1:00:00 David Lynch, Graham Norton Show, Liverpool, Michael Grant Terry.

What is mentioned in this SmartLess episode?

65 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Liverpool, London, SmartLess, Steven Graham, Adolescence, Boiling Point. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Stephen Graham | SmartLess"?

The episode runs 1 h 6 min; the transcript is about 13,839 words in 89 timestamped sections.

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