Transcript

Operation Paul Bunyan | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

From Stuff You Should Know · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 44 min · 8,306 words · 159 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Operation Paul Bunyan | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW", an episode of Stuff You Should Know published December 10, 2025 (44 min, about 8,306 words). It mentions 148 people, works and ideas, including Arthur Bonafas, Captain Arthur Bonafas, Operation Paul Bunan, Operation Paul Bunan, Joint Security Area.

What this episode is about

Operation Paul Bunyan refers to a significant military operation that occurred in 1976 at the Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), marking a response to heightened tensions in the area following the Korean War. The operation centered around the removal of a massive poplar tree that obstructed the view between U.S. and North Korean forces, symbolizing military presence and escalating conflicts during that time.

Key takeaways

  • When life gives you DMZ, don't make DMV jokes; it might confuse the troops.
  • Green cords: fashion timeless enough for co-host banter, yet not sturdy against podcast analysis!
  • DMZ's the stage where democracy and communism lock eyes; neutral grounds that aren't so neutral.
  • Korean War: a truce built on stalemates and semantic loopholes; it technically never ended.
  • Panmunjom: where North meets South in the ultimate geopolitical chess match with real-life pawns.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Korean War, North Korea, Korean War, DMZ
  2. – 10:00: Joint Security Area, Joint Security Area, Bridge of No Return, Bridge of No Return
  3. – 15:00: Bridge of No Return, Korean People's Army, William Henderson, Bridge of No Return
  4. – 20:00: Korean People's Army, Arthur Bonafas, Captain Arthur Bonafas, Henry Kissinger
  5. – 25:00: Henry Kissinger, House of Dynamite, House of Dynamite, Arthur Bonafas
  6. – 30:00: B-52, North Korea, F-111, Operation Paul Bunan
  7. – 35:00: Paul Bunan, Arthur Bonafas, Captain Arthur Bonafas, Operation Paul Bunan
  8. – 40:00: Korean People's Army, Joint Security Area, Henry Kissinger, UN command
  9. – 43:46: Apple Podcasts, baseball, big networks, Christmas special

Notable quotes from "Operation Paul Bunyan | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW"

  • Were This can't stand. We want the whole peninsula. and they invaded and the Korean War broke out like you said and it lasted for three years. I always thought it was Americans…
    about Korean War · at
  • And it's it's where North Korea and South Korea actually come together physically can come together in this what's called the JSA, the joint security area.
    about Joint Security Area · at
  • The guy in charge. I mean you know it came from on high, I'm sure, but it was filtered down through Captain Arthur Bonafas. He was a Vietnam vet. He was the JSA company commander. He was 33 years old. He was a big dude. He was 6'3.
    about Arthur Bonafas · at
  • At this site at the popular tree while it's being pruned and they're led by Lieutenant Pacul. He was known as Lieutenant Bulldog by the UN command troops because he was very confrontational, had provoked confrontation in the past plenty of.
    about Lieutenant Pacul · at
  • But you know there are still shots in film of this stuff going on. So he was bludgeoned. first lieutenant Mark Barrett was also beaten to death. He was chased down over a…
    about Lieutenant Mark Barrett · at
  • This was 100% the North Koreans doing this so much their fault that like you said it almost seems like it was possibly set up. We'll talk about that a little bit later. And so there was a big.
    about Operation Paul Bunan · at
  • Yeah, I mean I can kind of understand that impulse. he was apparently the only one in the special action group that wanted to respond with a violent action and the reason why was because this is such a flash point still today.
    about Henry Kissinger · at
  • And what they came up with was known as Operation Paul Bunan, which is one of the better names of any operation I've ever heard.
    about Operation Paul Bunan · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Arthur Bonafas — Person · Victim / JSA company commander · 9 mentions · first at
    Captain Arthur Bonafas was the UN/JSA officer killed in the August 18, 1976 axe murders; the camp Camp Bonafas is named for him and his death precipitated Operation Paul Bunan.
  • Captain Arthur Bonafas — Person · Victim / JSA commander · 9 mentions · first at
    Same individual as Arthur Bonafas (alternate naming in transcript); repeated references underline his leadership role and death's significance.
    The guy in charge. I mean you know it came from on high, I'm sure, but it was filtered down through Captain Arthur Bonafas. He was a Vietnam vet. He was the JSA company commander. He was 33 years old. He was a big dude. He was 6'3.
  • Lieutenant Mark Barrett — Person · Central historical figure (victim) in the DMZ Axe Incident · 4 mentions · first at
    He is identified as the other U.S. officer killed during the 1976 attack, alongside Captain Bonafas, which directly triggered the U.S./UNC show-of-force operation.
  • First Lieutenant Mark Barrett — Person · Victim · 3 mentions · first at
    First Lieutenant Mark Barrett was the other UN officer killed during the August 18, 1976 axe murders; his death, alongside Bonafas', intensified the crisis.
    But you know there are still shots in film of this stuff going on. So he was bludgeoned. first lieutenant Mark Barrett was also beaten to death. He was chased down over a…
  • Henry Kissinger — Person · Referenced policy decision-maker · 8 mentions · first at
    Discussed as the US Secretary of State who pushed for a strong military response after the axe murders and convened the Washington Special Action Group; his stance framed the political debate about escalation.
  • Lieutenant Pacul — Person · Referenced antagonist / alleged attacker leader · 1 mention · first at
    Named in the episode as the North Korean lieutenant (nicknamed 'Bulldog') who led the confronting guards and signaled/ordered the attack during the tree-pruning incident.
  • Moon Jae-in — Person · Referenced participant (later) · 3 mentions
    Mentioned as a South Korean president who later participated in symbolic reconciliation acts at the JSA and noted as having been one of the South Korean commandos involved in Paul Bunan earlier in his life.
    Yeah. What made it even more significant was that the South Korean president Moonja was actually one of the South Korean commandos who took part in Operation Paul Bunan.
  • Kim Il-Sung — Person · Referenced North Korean leader · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as 'dear leader' who was said (by North Koreans) to have planted the poplar tree; cited to explain North Korean reverence and likely motivations.
    Yeah. Plus also Kiml Sun, the dear leader, the first deer leader, he was a communist gerilla fighting the Japanese in World War II. He was battle hardened and tested.
  • William Henderson — Person · Referenced example illustrating rules-of-engagement stakes · 2 mentions · first at
    His earlier loss of composure during provocation is used to explain strict UN/US restraint policies in the JSA and how seriously retaliation was discouraged.
    Here is to take the verbal abuse, the kicking, the shoving, but to not let it go any further. Major Henderson lost his cool and blew it. It's a natural reaction, but he should have known better.
  • President Gerald Ford — Person · Referenced U.S. President during the crisis · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the sitting president when the incident occurred; his administration (with Kissinger) had to decide the U.S. response during an election year.
    Like we mentioned it was 76. So it was the election year between Ford and Jimmy Carter. And Ford learned about the incident when he was at the Republican National Convention.…
  • Bill and Hillary Clinton — Person · Referenced later visitor used to underscore danger of the JSA · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as having toured the JSA/Bridge of No Return in the 1990s and later calling Panmunjom the 'scariest place on Earth,' reinforcing the episode’s depiction of the area’s tension.
    Yeah. if you were assigned to patrol JSA, this was a really, really high stakes area. Still is today. Bill Clinton toured it in the '9s and went as far as out under the bridge…
  • Kim IlSung — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Yeah. And apparently he said you know they wanted to keep that tree pristine because Kim IlSung personally planted it and nourished it and it's growing under his supervision.…
  • First lieutenant Mark Barrett — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    But you know there are still shots in film of this stuff going on. So he was bludgeoned. first lieutenant Mark Barrett was also beaten to death. He was chased down over a…
  • Nelson Reynolds — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Usually make a note and I'm not seeing that. But I am seeing that Pop-Tarts came from Nelson Reynolds. So, sorry for that, Nelson. Sorry, Nelson. Haha.
  • Josh Dean — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Chance to shout out. There's a Adivist article called Axes of Evil written by Josh Dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at this whole thing that we're talking about today.
  • Biff Henderson — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Here is to take the verbal abuse, the kicking, the shoving, but to not let it go any further. Major Henderson lost his cool and blew it. It's a natural reaction, but he should have known better.
  • Lieutenant Bulldog — Person · 1 mention · first at
    It's being pruned and they're led by Lieutenant Pacul. He was known as Lieutenant Bulldog by the UN command troops because he was very confrontational, had provoked confrontation in the past plenty of times. And so, he showed up. So, you.
  • Kim Jong-un — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yes. Because Kim Elsung was the he was the first deer leader. Kim Jong-un is his grandson.
  • General Richard Stillwell — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, totally. it was under command of General Richard Stillwell. He was the commander-in-chief of the UN command there. And the message, like you said, was to sort of intimidate, show that we could do something if we wanted to.
  • Idris Ela — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. you get Idris Ela as the president, so that's always a good move. I'll say that.
  • Major General John Singlav — Person · 1 mention · first at
    So, Major General John Singlav, Dave helped us with this, found a quote, that just showed how serious this was.
  • Peter Sers — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. I immediately thought of Doctor Strange Love and I could just hear Peter Sers on the phone going, Well, Dimmitri, you see there's this tree.
  • Dimmitri King — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Strange Love and I could just hear Peter Sers on the phone going, Well, Dimmitri, you see there's this tree.
  • Leatherface — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And they should have sent out Leatherface.
  • Moonja — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. What made it even more significant was that the South Korean president Moonja was actually one of the South Korean commandos who took part in Operation Paul Bunan.
  • Michael J. Randle — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Broken at any time. thanks for making such a great show. that is from Michael J.Randle.
  • Michael Scott — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Okay. if you want to be like Michael Crannle, not Michael Scott, and send us an email, we would love that. Please do. You can send it off to stuffodcast@ iheartradio.com.
  • Kathryn Bigalow — Person · 1 mention
  • Little Chuck — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Adivist article 'Axes of Evil' — Book · Referenced work / source · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced as a detailed article by Josh Dean providing background on the axe murders and the JSA incident; cited as a research source that informed the episode.
    Chance to shout out. There's a Adivist article called Axes of Evil written by Josh Dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at this whole thing that we're talking about today.
  • Adivist article — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    An article referenced in the podcast providing detailed information about the incident.
    Chance to shout out. There's a Adivist article called Axes of Evil written by Josh Dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at this whole thing that we're talking about today.
  • Axes of Evil — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. There's a really that's a great chance to shout out. There's a Adivist article called Axes of Evil written by Josh Dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at this whole thing that we're talking about today.
  • 1977 Army War College report — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. I saw a 1977 Army War College report on the incident and that's what they said. So I'm I'm I'm prone to believe them.

Companies & orgs

  • United Nations Command — Company · Organization · 2 mentions · first at
    The multinational force that includes American troops and was involved in the incident.
    Fighting in Korea but it turns out there were plenty of American troops, mostly American troops, but they were part of a UN command that was actually fighting the North along with the South Koreans.
  • Korean People's Army — Company · Military opponent · 10 mentions · first at
    Named as the North Korean military force responsible for the JSA guards who attacked the UN personnel; contextualizes the identifying organization on the North side.
    Axe handles, maybe batons, and that was about it. So the Americans had strict orders not to take the bait and North Korean troops had essentially strict orders to provoke the…
  • Washington Special Action Group — Company · Decision-making task force (referenced) · 1 mention · first at
    The interagency emergency task force convened in Washington (cited as the group Kissinger called) to decide on a US response to the JSA axe murders.
    Yeah, I mean I can kind of understand that impulse. he was apparently the only one in the special action group that wanted to respond with a violent action and the reason why was because this is such a flash point still today.
  • US Midway — Company · Referenced naval asset (ship) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as USS Midway being part of the naval presence offshore during Operation Paul Bunan; used to illustrate the naval component of the show of force.
    Stops. And off the coast, they had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real show of intimidation.
  • US Navy — Company · Referenced military actor · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed in passing as part of broader US military presence (e.g., aircraft carriers, ships off the coast) involved in Operation Paul Bunan's show of force.
    Stops. And off the coast, they had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real show of intimidation.
  • USS Midway — Company · Military asset · 1 mention · first at
    A naval ship mentioned as part of the show of force during Operation Paul Bunan.
    Stops. And off the coast, they had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real show of intimidation.
  • UN command — Company · 10 mentions · first at
    Were plenty of American troops, mostly American troops, but they were part of a UN command that was actually fighting the North along with the South Koreans.
  • Stuff You Should Know — Company · 3 mentions · first at
    Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.
  • iHeart Radio — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.
  • Soviets — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    The United States post World War I was the Soviets and the Americans got together and said, All right, Korea and Korea, obviously got involved and said, We're going to be two nations.
  • House of Dynamite — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    And I did just see the that House of Dynamite. Have you seen that yet? The new Katherine Bigalow movie?
  • Adivist — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. There's a really that's a great chance to shout out. There's a Adivist article called Axes of Evil written by Josh Dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at this whole thing that we're talking about.
  • Washington Special Action Group — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Calls together the Washington Special Action Group, which was a task force that was formed in ' 69 out of Vietnam to deal with like sort of any emergencies like this that came up.
  • Nixon administration — Company · 1 mention · first at
    So I'm pretty sure he was at least a little paranoid. he started out in the Nixon administration for goodness sake. But he was also his position was also that this was a…
  • Wargame — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Number goes lower. It took me a second to figure that out, but I have seen Wargame, so I know how it works.
  • Doctor Strange Love — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. I immediately thought of Doctor Strange Love and I could just hear Peter Sers on the phone going, Well, Dimmitri, you see there's this tree.
  • Simpsons — Company · 1 mention · first at
    No, I thought it was the Simpsons, wasn't it?
  • Sports Illustrated — Company · 1 mention · first at
    The popular tree used to be and it's called the most dangerous hole in golf from Sports Illustrated.
  • Radio Pyongyang — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Came out of nowhere. But one big clue was I think 3 minutes after this incident occurred. Radio Pyongyang, which is the North Korean state radio, they broadcast a very biased…
  • big networks — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Local channels carried the big networks would often cut off the cartoons to show golf, baseball, or other sports. And as a kid, I know, I never knew when this was going to.
  • Local channels — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Local channels carried the big networks would often cut off the cartoons to show golf, baseball, or other sports. And as a kid, I know, I never knew when this was going to.
  • Christopher the Christmas Tree — Company · 1 mention · first at
    I never got to see the Christmas special, Christopher the Christmas Tree, or the last episode of Ultimate Muscle.
  • Ultimate Muscle — Company · 1 mention · first at
    I never got to see the Christmas special, Christopher the Christmas Tree, or the last episode of Ultimate Muscle.
  • stuffodcast@iheartradio.com — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Crannle, not Michael Scott, and send us an email, we would love that. Please do. You can send it off to stuffodcast@ iheartradio.com.
  • MASH — Company · 1 mention
  • Rambo — Company · 1 mention
  • U.S. Army War College — Company · 1 mention
  • UNCC — Company · 1 mention
  • USSR — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • B-52 — Product · Show of force asset · 2 mentions · first at
    B-52 strategic bombers were flown as part of Operation Paul Bunan to intimidate North Korea; mentioned as nuclear-capable assets present in theater.
    They had 20 Huey helicopters. They had 12 Cobra gunships, B-52 bombers, tank buster, F4 Phantom fighter jets, F-111 strategic bombs.
  • F-111 — Product · Show of force asset · 2 mentions · first at
    F-111 fighter/bomber aircraft were mentioned as part of the air assets in Operation Paul Bunan, referenced as carrying strategic bombs/nuclear capability.
    Missiles in this theater. Now, not just the B-52s carrying them, but those F-111s were also carrying nuclear warheads as missiles.
  • USS Midway — Product · Case study · 1 mention · first at
    Aircraft carrier involved in the show of force during Operation Paul Bunan.
    They're pulling out all the stops. And off the coast, they had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real.
  • axe handles — Product · 2 mentions · first at
    Patrolling the joint security area had. They were often outfitted with axe handles, maybe batons, and that was about it. So the Americans had strict orders not to take the bait…
  • landmines — Product · 2 mentions · first at
    Yeah. They also showed that they had claymore mines, landmines strapped to their chest and they had the detonators in their other hand and were daring the North Koreans to come get them because they would blow themselves up and the.
  • sidearm — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Were getting beat up, okay, but you did not shoot. You had to be shot at to draw your sidearm. And that was the most powerful weapon that anyone patrolling the joint security…
  • batons — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Patrolling the joint security area had. They were often outfitted with axe handles, maybe batons, and that was about it. So the Americans had strict orders not to take the bait…
  • Huey helicopters — Product · 1 mention · first at
    They had 20 Huey helicopters. They had 12 Cobra gunships, B-52 bombers, tank buster, F4 Phantom fighter jets, F-111 strategic bombs.
  • Cobra gunships — Product · 1 mention · first at
    They had 20 Huey helicopters. They had 12 Cobra gunships, B-52 bombers, tank buster, F4 Phantom fighter jets, F-111 strategic bombs.
  • B-52 bombers — Product · 1 mention · first at
    They had 20 Huey helicopters. They had 12 Cobra gunships, B-52 bombers, tank buster, F4 Phantom fighter jets, F-111 strategic bombs.
  • F4 Phantom fighter jets — Product · 1 mention · first at
    They had 20 Huey helicopters. They had 12 Cobra gunships, B-52 bombers, tank buster, F4 Phantom fighter jets, F-111 strategic bombs.
  • F-111 — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Had 12 Cobra gunships, B-52 bombers, tank buster, F4 Phantom fighter jets, F-111 strategic bombs.
  • frigots — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Stops. And off the coast, they had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real show of intimidation.
  • USS Midway — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Stops. And off the coast, they had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real show of intimidation.
  • cruiser — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real show of intimidation.
  • Claymore mines — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. They also showed that they had claymore mines, landmines strapped to their chest and they had the detonators in their other hand and were daring the North Koreans to come get them because they would blow themselves up and the.
  • chainsaws — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Essentially down to a 10-ft stump. they were using I read Vietnam era issue chainsaws that weren't in very good shape. So it took him a little while, but it took him about 45 minutes to complete the whole thing.
  • plaque — Product · 1 mention · first at
    They pulled the tree out, the stump and all, roots and all, and replaced it with a memorial. And there's a plaque on it that reads, On this spot was located the yellow popppler…
  • astroturf — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Golf I don't think you could call it a course, but it's it's like a astroturf par well a par three that's surrounded by landmines. now where the popular tree used to be and…
  • Apple Podcasts — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Stuff you should know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
  • iHeart Radio app — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Stuff you should know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
  • axes — Product · 1 mention
  • M16s — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Defcon 3 — Concept · Operational readiness status · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced to indicate the raised alert level in the region during Operation Paul Bunan; used to convey how close tensions were to general conflict.
    They had 40,000 troops over there that were Dave says here it was raised to defcon 3, which is somewhat counterintuitive because it's raising a number even though it's being lowered right?
  • Operation Paul Bunan — Concept · 6 mentions · first at
    Backgrounds who are What the hell is this? who want to hear about Operation Paul Bunan, which is the point of all this. And I'm guessing just from the title, there's probably a…
  • DMZ — Concept · 5 mentions
  • Korean War — Concept · 4 mentions · first at
    Were This can't stand. We want the whole peninsula. and they invaded and the Korean War broke out like you said and it lasted for three years. I always thought it was Americans…
  • 38th parallel — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
    And if you've ever heard of the 38th parallel, that's the famous dividing line between these two.
  • armistice — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    That you know there was never an official treaty ending the war. They came to a truce or an armistice because of a stalemate basically after 3 years. But I think you know on the books the Korean War never technically ended.
  • dear leader — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Yeah. And so the idea that dear leader planted that tree, I don't know if that's true. I never saw that. I just saw it like stated here or there.
  • nuclear war — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Against the North Koreans There was a better than even chance probably that you might spark a nuclear war, World War III.
  • hopscotch — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    They would, curse at one another, maybe spit at one another. the Americans would play hopscotch on the bridge. The North Koreans would, drive a truck really fast toward them…
  • the '9s — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    JSA, this was a really, really high stakes area. Still is today. Bill Clinton toured it in the '9s and went as far as out under the bridge of no return. And he said later that…
  • DMZ axe incident — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Axes and ran and the North Korean troops picked up the axes and here is where the reason that this is called the DMZ axe incident begins.
  • Secretary of State — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. So on the US side at the time we had Henry Kissinger as a secretary of state under President Gerald Ford. like we mentioned it was 76. So it was the election year between Ford and Jimmy Carter. And Ford learned about the.
  • World War III — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Against the North Koreans There was a better than even chance probably that you might spark a nuclear war, World War III.
  • Gerald Ford's opponent — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Because it was an election year. They were trying to interfere with the election to make the point of Gerald Ford's opponent Jimmy Carter who was saying we need to get troops…
  • DEFCON 3 — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    They had 40,000 troops over there that were Dave says here it was raised to defcon 3, which is somewhat counterintuitive because it's raising a number even though it's being lowered right?
  • anthropomorphizing — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Side of the bridge. And I just picture that, I know I'm anthropomorphizing.
  • 0700 hours — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, for sure. So at 0700 hours, that's 7 a.m. on August 21st, 1976, Operation Paul Bunan commences.
  • middle finger — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, I saw that Kissinger tried to get a carving artist in there to shape it in the form of a middle finger.
  • military demarcation line — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Line even through the GS the JSA yeah that dividing line the military demarcation line that is the actual border as far as I understand between North Korea South Korea with the…
  • Soviet exchange student — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Incident. And in fact, there was something like that. In 1984, there was a Soviet exchange student who was on a tour with the North Koreans who ran across the border for to…
  • defect — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Was a Soviet exchange student who was on a tour with the North Koreans who ran across the border for to defect into the west and a firefight started that resulted in the deaths…
  • memorial — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    They pulled the tree out, the stump and all, roots and all, and replaced it with a memorial. And there's a plaque on it that reads, On this spot was located the yellow popppler…
  • yellow popppler tree — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    With a memorial. And there's a plaque on it that reads, On this spot was located the yellow popppler tree, which was the focal point of the axe murders of two United Nations…
  • United Nations command officers — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    The yellow popppler tree, which was the focal point of the axe murders of two United Nations command officers, Captain Arthur Bonafas and First Lieutenant Mark Barrett, who…
  • pine tree of peace — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    I think the presidents of the two countries got together in the JSA to plant a pine tree of peace.
  • non-aligned nation — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Too that kind of is pretty definitive is that within five hours there was a non-aligned nation which were the nations during the cold war who didn't choose sides. All of them…
  • the pain of preeemption — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    I'm going to call this the pain of preeemption cuz that's what Michael called it. hey guys. Love the Saturday morning cartoon episode. I was born in ' 84 and watched.
  • Saturday morning cartoon episode — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Preeemption cuz that's what Michael called it. hey guys. Love the Saturday morning cartoon episode. I was born in ' 84 and watched them well into high school. your episode covered a lot, but you left out one thing, the pain of preeemption.
  • baseball — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Local channels carried the big networks would often cut off the cartoons to show golf, baseball, or other sports. And as a kid, I know, I never knew when this was going to…
  • Christmas special — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    I never got to see the Christmas special, Christopher the Christmas Tree, or the last episode of Ultimate Muscle.
  • 1953 armistice — Concept · 1 mention
  • 1984 — Concept · 1 mention
  • 2022 — Concept · 1 mention
  • nukes — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • Operation Paul Bunan — Event · Core topic · 6 mentions · first at
    The main incident discussed in the podcast, involving the murder of two UN command officers by North Korean guards.
  • Operation Paul Bunan — Event · Case study / central event · 6 mentions · first at
    Operation Paul Bunan was the large, carefully calibrated US/UN show-of-force response (August 21, 1976) to the axe murders intended to intimidate North Korea and reassert control of the JSA.
  • Joint Security Area — Place · Setting · 6 mentions · first at
    The Joint Security Area (JSA) is the immediate location where the 1976 axe murders and subsequent Operation Paul Bunan took place; it frames the episode's discussion of the DMZ incidents and Cold War brinkmanship.
  • DMZ — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    The demilitarized zone between North and South Korea where the incident occurred.
    1.2 miles on either side. And that is like effectively the de facto border between north and south. No one's supposed to come into that no man's zone, no man's land, the DMZ.…
  • Panmunjom — Place · Setting · 22 mentions
    The village inside the DMZ where the joint security area is located.
    And it's it's where North Korea and South Korea actually come together physically can come together in this what's called the JSA, the joint security area.
  • Korean War — Event · Key argument · 4 mentions · first at
    The war that led to the creation of the DMZ and the ongoing tension between North and South Korea.
  • TBD: Panmunjom — Place · Village within DMZ / referenced JSA location · 3 mentions
    Panmunjom (transcript labeled 'TBD: Panmunjom') is the village inside the DMZ where the JSA is located and where negotiations and the incident occurred; used to explain the geography.
    Supposed to come into that no man's zone, no man's land, the DMZ. But inside the DMZ, there's a little tiny village called Panmu Jam. And I know of that from Billy Joel.
  • DPRK — Place · Country (opposing party) · 2 mentions
    Abbreviation for the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) — the state whose guards carried out the axe murders and were the target of Operation Paul Bunan's intimidation.
  • North Korea — Place · Setting · 11 mentions · first at
    One of the two countries involved in the DMZ and the incident.
    Communist North Korean side the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, right? and called the Democratic South Korean side just the Republic of Korea.
  • Bridge of No Return — Place · Setting / symbolic structure · 4 mentions · first at
    A well-known bridge in the JSA used historically for prisoner exchanges and symbolic of the North/South divide; mentioned as part of the JSA context and the tree's location near it.
    Governments go. There's a very famous bridge there separating the two, the bridge of no return. And it's very dramatic if you look at pictures of it.
  • 38th parallel — Place · Geographical feature · 3 mentions · first at
    The dividing line between North and South Korea established after World War II.
    And if you've ever heard of the 38th parallel, that's the famous dividing line between these two.
  • Demilitarized Zone — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    Another name for the DMZ, the buffer zone between North and South Korea.
    1.2 miles on either side. And that is like effectively the de facto border between north and south. No one's supposed to come into that no man's zone, no man's land, the DMZ.…
  • Camp Bonafas — Place · Memorial / named site · 1 mention · first at
    Camp Bonafas (named after Captain Arthur Bonafas) is a US/UN base in the JSA area; mentioned to show his legacy and local naming.
    And the camp there at JSA is named Camp Bonafas after him. So, you may see where this is headed. but he, he believed in standing your ground but not taking the.
  • Paul Bunan — Event · Alias / shorthand · 8 mentions · first at
    Appears as an alternate/abbreviated naming or confusion in the transcript relating to Operation Paul Bunan; same operation referenced repeatedly throughout the episode.
    Backgrounds who are What the hell is this? who want to hear about Operation Paul Bunan, which is the point of all this. And I'm guessing just from the title, there's probably a…
  • Korean Peninsula — Place · Geographical context · 1 mention · first at
    The region where the DMZ and the incident are located.
    Days after the axe attack. And what they were going to do was mobilize sort of the largest mobilization of our forces and defenses on the Korean peninsula since that 53…
  • USS Midway — Place · Military asset · 1 mention · first at
    A US aircraft carrier involved in the show of force during Operation Paul Bunan.
    They're pulling out all the stops. And off the coast, they had the USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. I mean it was a real.
  • Busan — Place · Referenced place · 2 mentions
    Mentioned in passing as a South Korean city (transcript mentions familiarity with Korean place names); not central to the incident but part of broader geographic context.
  • Joint Security Area — Place · 4 mentions · first at
    South Korea actually come together physically can come together in this what's called the JSA, the joint security area.
  • Bridge of No Return — Place · 4 mentions · first at
    Governments go. There's a very famous bridge there separating the two, the bridge of no return. And it's very dramatic if you look at pictures of it.
  • Democratic People's Republic of Korea — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Let's confuse everybody and call the communist North Korean side the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, right? and called the Democratic South Korean side just the Republic of Korea.
  • Republic of Korea — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Let's confuse everybody and call the communist North Korean side the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, right? and called the Democratic South Korean side just the Republic of Korea.
  • Panmu Jam — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Zone, no man's land, the DMZ. But inside the DMZ, there's a little tiny village called Panmu Jam. And I know of that from Billy Joel.
  • Camp Bonafas — Place · 1 mention · first at
    And the camp there at JSA is named Camp Bonafas after him. So, you may see where this is headed. but he, he believed in standing your ground but not taking the.
  • Checkpoint three — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. They're just pruning it back. They just want to make sure that even during summer they can see checkpoint three, the loneliest outpost in the world because like you said…
  • Pyongyang — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Came out of nowhere. But one big clue was I think 3 minutes after this incident occurred. Radio Pyongyang, which is the North Korean state radio, they broadcast a very biased…
  • JSA — Place · 1 mention

Media & podcasts

  • Adivist — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Article mentioned that provides detailed information about the incident.
    Chance to shout out. There's a Adivist article called Axes of Evil written by Josh Dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at this whole thing that we're talking about today.
  • House of Dynamite — Media · Referenced media · 2 mentions · first at
    A movie referenced in the podcast for its depiction of nuclear war.
    What would happen if nuclear arms were launched, like what would we do? So, it's a very tense thing and there's lots of Defcon talk. and I liked a lot of it.
  • M*A*S*H — Media · Cultural reference · 1 mention · first at
    A TV show mentioned in passing as a cultural reference related to Korea.
    That was it. And then some of the other Korean town names that came up like Kong and all this, I'm how do I know all these? How do they sound familiar? And then I realized watching.

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And it's just us and that's okay because we can support one another and ourselves. We're grown men and we feel good about things, especially us. Well, not especially, but equally with us. And this is stuff you should know. I mean, you told me uh you sent me a text very early that said, "Put on your big boy pants today."

Yeah, cuz Jerry's not showing up. Yeah. So, I got them out. My breaches. Yeah. Are they green jeans?

Oh, I've got on green cords. No, I do. These were kind of my favorites, actually. These forest green cords. Great for this time of year.

I don't remember those. I remember some like brownish uh taupey kind of shiny taupe ones. Am I making that up?

No, I have I have uh cords of many colors much like Joseph. Are they the thick whales or the thin whales?

Uh the thins. I don't get into the thick stuff anymore. That was 90s Chuck probably.

Yeah, but I'll bet they're going to make a comeback. I bet you. Okay, I think we should start talking about this because we probably have some uh nonregular uh listeners uh who have military backgrounds who are like, "What the hell is this?" who want to hear about Operation Paul Bunan, which is the point of all this. And I'm guessing just from the title, there's probably a lot of people in the military who who know what we're talking about already. It seems to be a fairly widespread um widely known incident that took place in 1976.

Um, we're just going to call it an incident at the DMV. DMZ. That was totally unintentional. An incident at the DMZ.

That's where we're going to start out calling it. We'll eventually maybe refine that over time, but we should probably talk about what the DMZ is in the first place, right?

Yeah. And by the way, I'm looking real quick because I could have sworn this probably came from someone, but I usually make a note and I'm not seeing that. But I am seeing that Pop-Tarts came from Nelson Reynolds. So, sorry for that, Nelson. Sorry, Nelson. Haha.

But, uh, yeah, the DMZ, I guess we should set up just sort of the the deal between North Korea and South Korea and the United States post World War

I uh was the Soviets and the Americans got together and said, "All right, Korea and Korea, obviously uh got involved and said, "We're going to be two nations. Uh, let's confuse everybody and call the communist North Korean side the Democratic People's Republic of Korea,

right? and called the Democratic South Korean side just the Republic of Korea. And if you've ever heard of the 38th parallel, that's the famous dividing line between these two.

Yeah. And North Korea and South Korea got divided after World War II because there was a power vacuum and the communists were fighting in the north and they were fighting the USfriendly South Koreans and uh the North Koreans were like, "This can't stand. We want the whole peninsula." and they invaded and the Korean War broke out like you said and it lasted for three years. I always thought it was Americans who were fighting in Korea but it turns out there were plenty of American troops, mostly American troops, but they were part of a UN command um that was actually fighting the North along with the South Koreans.

Yeah, I think it was like 90% American forces and uh you said it lasted three years. I think the Korean War is one of those that technically never ended.

True. officially because I mean that's kind of one of those nitpicky trivia questions.

That's a good one though. Uh that you know there was never an official treaty ending the war. They came to a truce or an armistice uh because of a stalemate basically after 3 years. But I think you know on the books the Korean War never technically ended.

Yeah, that's that's my understanding too. Well, good point. So one of the big things about this armistice agreement was that it was like okay you guys we need some separation here. and they literally separated North Korea from South Korea. Like you said, the dividing line runs roughly along the 38th parallel, but on either side of that border of North and South Korea, there's a buffer zone, the demilitarized zone, the DMZ I was referring to before, um I think it's 2.4 miles wide total, 1.2 miles on either side. And that is like effectively the de facto border between north and south. No one's supposed to come into that no man's zone, no man's land, the DMZ. But inside the DMZ, there's a little tiny village called Panmu Jam. And I know of that from Billy Joel.

Yeah, I knew he was going to come up. That was it. And then some of the other um Korean town names that came up like Kong and all this, I'm like, how do I know all these? How do they sound familiar? And then I realized watching MASH with my dad.

Oh yeah. And it's this little tiny militarized um spot inside the demilitarized zone. And it's it's where North Korea and South Korea um actually come together physically can come together in this uh what's called the JSA, the joint security area.

Yeah. So if they over the years have to to meet to negotiate anything, that's where they meet. Uh that's where the governments go. There's a very uh famous bridge there separating the two, the bridge of no return. And it's very dramatic if you look at pictures of it.

It's literally like, you know, on one side is one thing, on the other side is the other. And that's where they do prisoner exchanges and stuff like that.

And these days, you know, it it's well largely because of this incident. I think it it's not the same as it was back then.

No. Um it's very separate back then. The joint security area was, you know, there were it was jointly patrolled like, you know, North Koreans and South Korean soldiers and American soldiers were patrolling the area at the same time. There was face-to-face contact. Uh they would try to intimidate one another. They would, you know, curse at one another, maybe spit at one another. Uh the Americans would play hopscotch on the bridge. The North Koreans would, you know, drive a truck really fast toward them and slam on the brakes. they would sneak up and bang on their uh checkpoint barracks at night and stuff like that.

It was crazy to think that these kind of shenanigans were going on without any further, you know, sort of uh war breaking out. They all kind of seemly took it in stride.

Well, that's what that's what their orders were. the the UN command troops and the Americans in particular had specific orders to like if you had to defend yourself physically because you were getting beat up, okay, but you did not shoot. You had to be shot at to to draw your sidearm. And um that was the most um powerful weapon that anyone patrolling the the joint security area had. They were often um outfitted with axe handles, maybe batons, and that was about it. So the Americans had strict orders not to to take the bait and North Korean troops had essentially strict orders to provoke the Americans into attacking so that they could start a war again and it would be the Americans fault.

Exactly. Uh and this came largely from uh the guy in charge. I mean you know it came from on high, I'm sure, but it was filtered down through Captain Arthur Bonafas. He was a Vietnam vet. He was the JSA company commander. He was 33 years old. He was a big dude. He was 6'3.

Apparently, super popular, like a father figure as far as his his command went.

And the camp there at JSA is named Camp Bonafas after him. So, you may see where this is headed. Uh, but he, you know, he believed in um standing your ground but not taking the bait like you said, like he wanted big guys down there. He wanted to kind of intimidate. Uh but the orders were always to back off if if it came to blows and sometimes it would like you know you could get beat up or something and it would not escalate further which is just crazy to think about.

It is it's hard to to imagine. Um you said that that uh Bonafas was into um intimidating without you know doing it like just being physically intimidating. Yeah. Um, if you were assigned to patrol JSA, this was a really, really high stakes area. Still is today. Um, Bill Clinton toured it in uh the '9s and went as far as out under the bridge of no return. And he said later that it that um, Pamujam is the scariest place on Earth. That's a president saying that. He's probably been to some scary places and at least knows about them. So, that really says quite a bit. So, if you're assigned to this area, it's a big deal.

And so, you had to be over 6 feet tall, but you also had to be um laid-back by nature and um rather coolheaded like even when provoked. Like, they really tested the people who were assigned there.

Yeah. They'd walk up and they'd slap you and see what you did. They would apparently while they were interviewing you that you'd have no idea. They'd just start shouting at you out of the out of nowhere to see how you responded.

Were they really? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. There's a really that's a great um chance to shout out. There's a Adivist article called Axes of Evil

written by Josh Dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at at this whole thing that we're talking about today.

That would be axe in this case, right? Yep. Very clever. Bit of a uh what do you call it? It's we're recording early so I can't think of the word.

A foreshadowing. Yeah, maybe that's it. A play on words. pun. No, foreshadowing is probably it.

Okay. I think people are probably concerned because I couldn't think of foreshadowing.

I couldn't think of chemistry the other day and it drove me crazy. Oh man. Yeah.

Aging is real. Yeah. Uh and a privilege as they say. Uh so before this incident that we're about to talk about there there was one example we should mention uh when North Korean uh troops were kind of musing the hair of a soldier named William Henderson and he did not take it well. Um I guess he was uh into his hair or something.

He got mad, took a swing and got a I guess a throat chop or something and got a busted larynx and such that Bonafas wrote his wife and said, "Our mission here is to take the verbal abuse, the kicking, the shoving, but to not let it go any further." Major Henderson lost his cool and blew it. It's a natural reaction, but he should have known better.

Yeah. And it was a big deal. So, I also saw that Henderson was provoked by a journalist who spat at him when Henderson stood up. The journalist hit him and then finally Henderson hit him back and then all of a sudden a bunch of North Korean troops jumped on him. But the fact that he took the bait was a big deal because he was a major. That means you're a big deal at a camp already. Like you're you're fairly high up. So him fighting back was Yeah, that was a big deal.

Uh maybe an early earlyish break here seems like a good dividing line. I think we should we'll we'll take a break and we'll come back and talk about the tree that started the whole thing.

All right. All right. Uh Josh didn't pick up on my bad pun of the dividing line.

Uh what was it? I said it's a dividing line like you know the 38th parallel. It just is so natural that I totally missed it.

It's also early for me too. I couldn't tell by the way that that short stuff that you sent that we're going to record later had a bunch of puns in it and I didn't know if that was intentional or not.

Um I can think of one and it was intentional. There were a couple. Okay. You got to point them out.

Yeah. Boy, what a what a little tease of a whole different episode. You're such a tease.

So, uh all right, now we get to the Paul Bunan uh what what instigated the Paul Bunan uh incident or operation,

right? Uh which was this tree that you mentioned. There was a tree. It was a popular tree uh near the bridge of no return. And the thing you need to know about this tree, well, there's a few things, but one is that it blocked the view of the line of sight between these two UN command checkpoints. Uh, and that was a big deal because you needed an open line of sight between these checkpoints because, you know, there were uh, incidents of like kidnapping and stuff like that and other shenanigans and you just you had to have that line of sight open.

Yep. So, they said the UNCC was like, "We we got to get rid of this tree." So, they sent a couple of unarmed South Korean workers down there to just sort of figure out the best way to remove it. And the first sort of reaction was the North Korean guards chased them away. So that was sort of the the line in the sand was get out of here, get away from that tree.

Yeah. Apparently they tried again a couple days later and got rained out. And then finally on August 18th, they were like, "Okay, we're just going to go ahead and do this." Um those first guys got chased off. So we're going to uh essentially assign a few men to to escort them. I think a 15-man team went over on August 18th led by Captain Bonafas. And um they started pruning the tree totally

to prune at this point. Yeah. They're just pruning it back. They just want to make sure that uh even during summer they can see checkpoint three, the loneliest outpost in the world because like you said, it's very dangerous to man that. So they're just pruning it, right? And very quickly the North Koreans came over the bridge of no return because remember mind-bogglingly the joint security area was open. like the border didn't exist in the joint security area. So, North Koreans and and uh UN command could just go wherever they want. So, the North Koreans show up at this site at the popular tree while it's being pruned

and they're led by Lieutenant Pacul. He was known as Lieutenant Bulldog by the UN command troops because he was very confrontational, had provoked confrontation in the past plenty of times. And so, he showed up. So, you just immediately knew that this could go south pretty quickly. Yeah. And apparently he said uh you know they wanted to keep that tree pristine because Kim IlSung personally planted it and nourished it and it's growing under his supervision. So uh apparently or at least they said it was a special tree and to stand down.

Yes. Because Kim Elsung was the he was the first deer leader. Kim Kim Jong-un is his grandson.

Yeah. Uh yeah. And so the idea that dear leader planted that tree, I don't know if that's true. Um, I never saw that. I just saw it like stated here or there. But at the very least, Pacchoul said that, right? Yeah. I I'm not sure if I buy that given what we now have sort of suspected about this being a provocation, which we'll get to. But, uh, that sounds to me like, hey, let's tell him that, you know, it's a special treat.

Yeah. like he's like pacch seemed like the kind who would just lo load you up on BS just to mess with you.

Yeah. So he called for even more reinforcements. Uh I think about 30 more North Korean guards showed up. Uh he ordered Captain Bonafas to stop but he turned his back on him which I I think was you know a pretty big insult.

Yeah. Uh on top of everything else. And uh as the story goes, one of the American soldiers saw uh Pac take off his wrist uh wristwatch and put it in his pocket, which is I guess akin to like Fonza taking off his leather jacket

like it's about to happen, right? And tried to warn Bonafas, but it was too late by that point and Pac ordered ordered the attack basically by saying like I think he said kill the bastards, right?

Yeah. I saw a 1977 Army War College report on the incident and that's what they said. So I'm I'm I'm prone to believe them.

Yeah. But he said it in Korean obviously. Right. But right after that they the men attacked and actually I saw Lieutenant Pacchu assaulted Captain Bonafas who had again his back to to Pacchu.

He hit him with the karate chop in the back of his neck and dropped Captain Bonafas and very very sadly Captain Bonafas never got to his feet again. Yeah.

Um like immediately he was set upon by saw five to six North Korean troops just started being beaten by them

and I guess the people who were um cutting the tree had a couple of axes, these civilians and they dropped their axes and ran and the North Korean troops picked up the axes and here is where um the reason that this is called the DMZ axe incident uh begins.

That's right. So Bonafas was bludgeoned to death uh by these guys attacking him. And you can watch this like it's it was caught on film. It's it's very chaotic. You can't really get I mean it's kind of from far away so you can't get a lot of detail,

right? Uh but you know there are still shots in film of this uh stuff going on. So he was bludgeoned. Uh first lieutenant Mark Barrett was also beaten to death. He was chased down over a retaining wall. and you know sort of the I mean it's sad enough as it is but Bonafas was due to to go home uh to his wife and three kids in 3 days. So it was made it you know sort of especially brutal.

Yeah. And not like for a visit like he this was his last three days in Korea where he was murdered by an axe by North Korean troops. It's almost like a parody. Like it's almost too crazy to believe that that's how close he was to leaving Korea. He was also going to be promoted to major too. like he was his life was uh like looking up when he was murdered.

Yeah. Really sad. So, um this was a really really big deal as you can imagine. This is the first time that any uh UN command troops and any Americans had been killed in Korea um since the end of the Korean War. It was a huge provocation. Um and there was a big question now on the table. What is the United States military going to do so that two of its um two of its officers were murdered by axe by North Korean troops totally unprovoked?

This was 100% the North Koreans doing this so much their fault that like you said it almost seems like it was um possibly set up. We'll talk about that a little bit later. And so there was a big a big question that needed to be answered and answered really fast and that was what how are we going to respond to this?

Yeah. So on the US side at the time we had Henry Kissinger as a secretary of state under President Gerald Ford. Uh like we mentioned it was 76. So it was the election year between Ford and Jimmy Carter. And Ford learned about the incident when he was at the Republican National Convention. And obviously as Secretary of State, Kissinger was kind of in charge of figuring out what to do. Calls together the Washington Special Action Group, which was a task force that was formed in ' 69 um out of Vietnam to deal with like sort of any emergencies like this that came up.

And it's Henry Kissinger. So he's like, "We we should bomb the barracks." like he wants to flatten the barracks of the the guards that attack them and react really strongly and send a you know a big message that this will not stand.

Yeah, I mean I can kind of understand that impulse. um he was apparently the only one in the special action group that wanted to respond with a violent action and the reason why was because this is such a flash point still today but at this time I mean it was like we were still in the middle of the cold war so to us not only was this North Korea this is also China and the USSR right behind them right

oh yeah so if you sent a missile into the JSA against the North Koreans There was a a better than even chance probably that you might spark a nuclear war, World War III.

Yeah. And luckily cooler heads prevailed, but Kissinger had a he was probably a little paranoid. I would guess he was he's very widely reviled. Um including by me. Um so I'm pretty sure he was at least a little paranoid. I mean, he started out in the Nixon administration for goodness sake. But he was also his his position was also that this was a a provocation by the North to test America's resolve because it was an election year. They were trying to interfere with the election to make the point of Gerald Ford's opponent Jimmy Carter who was saying we need to get troops out of Korea. We don't have any business being there anymore. So Kissinger thought this was North Korea doing this to basically show that the Americans didn't belong here anymore and just to get out wasn't worth it. basically.

Yeah. And I get the idea. I mean, I was but five at the time, not super into politics yet.

Mhm. Um but I get the idea that that getting American troops out of Korea was probably a pretty popular idea that Carter was laying out.

Yeah. Especially after Vietnam. Yeah. Well, and Kissinger was still ticked off about Vietnam. Uh so he was like, if we don't do this, it's going to send a message that uh to other Asian countries and the USSR and China that we have no resolve and that we're going to stand down. and you know he wanted his guy Ford back in there obviously. So he was outvoted uh like you said thankfully um but he was like all right we still need a show of force like we need to do something and the one thing that everybody in the room agreed on even if it was I mean I know it was somewhat strategical but it was also symbolic they were like we're cutting that GD tree down no matter what anyone else says we're going to cut that thing down and they were all like harump harump so yeah they decided okay we're not going to actually destroy anything.

We're not going to fire any missiles. We're not going to kill anybody. But that doesn't mean we're not going to show them that we could do that if we wanted to.

Right. And what they came up with was known as Operation Paul Bunan, which is one of the better um names of any operation I've ever heard.

Yeah, totally. Uh it was under command of General Richard Stillwell. He was the commander-in-chief of the UN command there. And the message, like you said, was to um sort of intimidate, show that we could do something if we wanted to. They had 40,000 troops over there

that were uh I mean, Dave says here it was uh raised to defcon 3, which is somewhat counterintuitive because it's raising a number even though it's being lowered right?

Yeah. Yeah. Right in the middle between one and five, and one's the highest. It is very confusing.

Yeah. So, you're raising Defcon, but the number goes lower. It took me a second to figure that out, but I have seen Wargame, so I know how it works.

Uh, and I did just see the that House of Dynamite. Have you seen that yet? The new Katherine Bigalow movie?

No. It's uh I think it's on I think it's a Netflix movie about sort of a modern, you know, what would happen if if nuclear arms were launched, like what would we do? So, it's a very tense thing and there's lots of Defcon talk. Uh, and I liked a lot of it.

Yeah, I say that. I can get that. I think she's um directly funded by the CIA, honestly.

Katherine Bigalow. Yeah. She definitely has her niche, you know. Yeah, for sure.

Uh I I would recommend it. I I didn't care for the uh third act that much, but House of Dynamite,

I think that's what it's called. A great name. Yeah. Uh I mean, you get Idris Ela as the president, so that's always a good move. I'll say that.

Wait, you're talking about that he's in it with John Cena. John Cena is the American president and Idris Ela's the prime minister. And they actually end up being like action heroes.

No, Idris Ela is the American president. John Cena is he's nowhere to be found.

I'm thinking of something else then. You're thinking something else. Anyway, Operation Paul Bunion is set up for uh I mean I know I'm saying Bungan, but that's just because of my weird accent. It's Bunan. Uh August 21st. This is 3 days after the axe attack. And what they were going to do was mobilize sort of the largest mobilization of our forces and defenses on the Korean peninsula since that 53 armistice with some pretty heavy artillery and air airship and and uh sea ships.

Yeah. I mean, remember when Captain Bonafas went to escort the tree trimmers, there were 15 people. Now there's 800 men involved in this tree trimming. And I it's not even a tree trimming at this point, right? They're now they're aiming to like cut the tree down.

Yeah. They hate this tree at this point, right? They want that tree dead, especially if they think that deer leader planted it, right? This tree has now become super symbolic. Blood has been shed

to prune this tree. And you said that it's there was a ton of artillery and armaments as part of the show of force. And boy, you got it right.

Yeah. I mean, they they had flying overhead and clear view so everyone could see, you know, what was going on. They had uh 20 Huey helicopters. They had 12 Cobra gunships,

B-52 bombers, uh tank buster, F4 Phantom fighter jets, F-111 um strategic bombs. Uh I mean, they're pulling out all the stops. And off the off the coast, they had uh the USS USS, did I say three S's or two? USS Midway. um four frigots and a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. Uh I mean it was a real show of intimidation.

Yeah. Uh those B-52s to take the intimidation even further were flying inside North Korean airspace um not too far from Pyang. Uh they were also strapped with nukes. There were nuclear missiles in this theater. Now, not just the B-52s carrying them, but those F-111s were also carrying nuclear warheads as missiles.

So, the idea is here as part of Operation Paul Bunny is to trim the tree or cut the tree down now. And to also show North Korea like do you do not want to mess with us. Do not ever do anything like that again. and to be prepared that if North Korea did do something, if they were provoked by this tree cutting down um that they would just be essentially wiped off the map as a as a nation.

Yeah, for sure. And you know, the whole after I was studying all this, right in the middle of it, I got weirdly very sad for this tree.

Yeah, I saw that tree and felt that way as well. I've seen other people refer to as the poor tree.

I know. Cuz in the middle of all this stuff, I mean, these, you know, bombers are flying overhead and these troops are amassing these heavy artillery on each side of the bridge. And I just picture that, you know, I know I'm anthropomorphizing. I always say that wrong.

Say it for me. Anthropomorphizing. You said it. You just said it slowly. That's right. This tree. Uh, but I just pictured this poor tree sitting there like, man, I just I just want to be a tree.

I wish I were a shrub. I don't want to start World War II or be cut down. I know. Uh that tree did not get their wish.

I'll grow slower. I promise. Right here, I can just shed a few limbs. So, uh Major General John Singlav, Dave helped us with this, found a quote, uh that just showed how serious this was. And he said, "It was my estimate shared by many of the staff that the operations stood a 50-50 chance of starting a war." And that would have been World War II.

Absolutely. A nuclear war. This tree tree cutting operation could have sparked World War II. No joke. Again, that is how tense things are at the DMZ even still to this day.

All right. Should we take a break? Yeah, let's take a break and then we're going to talk about Operation Paul Bunan commencing. So Chuck, this is not a reckless thing. As a matter of fact, this was really calculated. You mentioned General Stillwell, who was in charge of every American troop in in Korea. He personally came up with this plan and he was not a war hawk, but he also it was a really good plan especially if all of the troops like followed orders and nobody tried anything provocative and nobody took any bait from the North Koreans. Um it was it was a very good plan but u the United States was not reckless in this in carrying out this plan. They actually got in touch with China and the USSR and basically basically said, "Hey, you know, we're thinking about doing something like this." And um China and the USSR both signaled that they were not going to do anything if North Korea started fighting

that North Korea was on their own. I think they blinked twice and pulled their left earlobe and then touched the bill of their cap

and the United States is like, "Oh, we got you." So now it was a little less tense. Even though it could still start a war with North Korea, at least we had this idea that China and the USSR wouldn't immediately intervene.

Yeah. I I immediately thought of Doctor Strange Love and I could just hear Peter Sers on the phone going, "Well, Dimmitri, you see there's this tree."

That's perfect. It's so great. Um I think we didn't mention too that uh the actual tree cutting was going to be done by unarmed military engineers that they sent forward.

Yeah. Uh I mean the fact that they weren't armed is is kind of neither here nor there cuz there were so many arms. Um I think the people actually on the bridge um supposedly just had like um these you know clubs and axe handles and sidearms but both sides of the bridge were stocked with heavy artillery uh from both sides. And I also saw that the Korean South Korean faction that was assisting us uh they rolled in and blocked the bridge and I don't think they were supposed to have anything more than uh just pistols, but they unloaded a bunch of sandbags and had a bunch of uh M16s hidden that they took out.

Yeah. They also showed that they had claymore mines, landmines strapped to their chest and they had the detonators in their other hand and were daring the North Koreans to come get them because they would blow themselves up and the North Koreans. And this had not been passed by the UN command um force or anything like that. No one had any idea that the South Korean commandos were going to do something like that because again, we're trying to not let this be, you know, any more tense than it already is. And all of a sudden there's essentially suicide bombers on the scenes like mocking the North Koreans.

So that that definitely altered things a little bit. Playmore with Claymore. Oh yeah, I forgot that. I knew that from being a kid. Where where did where did you hear that? Is that just from the military and it trickled out?

No, I thought it was the Simpsons, wasn't it? No, I I think it was like a maybe in a Rambo or something like I I there's no no way I would have known that as a kid otherwise.

Yeah. Okay. I I can't remember where I heard it first, but at any rate, it's a very tense scene. I think we've setting that up. Uh and again, you know, we had orders not to provoke, like our mission is to cut that tree down. Um but all hell's going to break loose if if anything happens. And like you mentioned, North Korea had uh some pretty decent incentive to kind of start some fighting. They didn't want World War II, but um they wanted to, you know, they wanted South Korea still at this point.

Yeah. Plus also Kiml Sun, the dear leader, the first deer leader, he was a a communist gerilla fighting the Japanese in World War II. He was battle hardened and tested.

Yeah. So he was totally into fighting. He wasn't like a a dove or a diplomat at all.

Yeah. And I think we did mention too that the the previous tree trimming supposedly we had told them that this was going to happen. And so the whole provocation to begin with, um, if they knew about it ahead of time, then they came down there with that knowledge because they didn't raise any objections apparently that we were like, "Hey, we're going to trim this tree so we can have a better line of sight and you'll have a better line of sight and no one said anything, you know, to the contrary." So the whole thing was really a provocation by the North Koreans.

Yeah, absolutely. That was the the first time when Captain Bonafas and and Lieutenant Barrett got murdered, right?

Yeah, exactly. which again made it sort of seem like it was planned to begin with.

Yeah, for sure. So at 0700 hours, that's 7 a.m. on August 21st, 1976, Operation Paul Bunan commences. And um like you said, I mean, basically what we described there was there was an order not to engage. I mean, essentially, if the North Koreans started unloading with sniper fire or machine guns, then yes, we're going to engage. And um it was a very tense operation, but they they got in there, the military engineers cut the tree essentially down to a 10-ft stump. Um they were using I read Vietnam era issue um chainsaws that weren't in very good shape. So it took him a little while, but it took him about 45 minutes to complete the whole thing.

And uh they should have sent out Leatherface. He should have. He could have gotten that done in 10 minutes.

Yeah. Uh but they left this big stump with a two like it was branching at the top and one of the um the the soldiers who was at the scene said that it had looked like somebody raising their arms and surrender

like the North Koreans were surrendering. Yeah, I saw that Kissinger tried to get a uh a carving artist in there to shape it in the form of a middle finger.

Right. Those guys are great. The chainsaw artists, man. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Um, I don't know if the intent was ever to cut down the entire tree. I don't think that that was the the plan even in the second time, even in Operation Paul Bunan. But they left this stump. The everybody on the US side just went back out. They just withdrew. The operation was successful, but things were still quite tense. Um it's not it wasn't clear whether North Korea was going to respond still just because the operation was done and now there weren't a bunch of troops. America or the UN command they just kept patrolling the joint um security area like it was any other day because that's what it was supposed to be. Even though this operation had commenced, it was now over. So things were supposed to go back to normal. But we still had no idea what North Korea was going to do. So, uh, you know, pretext to this was they were very

unapologetic about the whole incident leading up to that, like after after Captain Bonafas and Lieutenant Barrett were killed. Um, but after Paul Bunan, they they thankfully uh backed off. There wasn't like um an expressed apology, but uh President Kim IlSung did express regret for those deaths. So, they clearly were sort of backing down at this point. uh you know much to everyone's relief and it was it was this incident that basically everyone was like hey you know what maybe this maybe we didn't think this through how this thing operates with these guys all being here in the same place at all times right

and so it's set up much differently now so you uh the actual line that runs the length of the DMC is the actual dividing line even through the GS uh the JSA

yeah that that dividing line the military demarcation line that is the actual border as far as I understand between North Korea South Korea with the DMZ buffers on either side of it and they just ignored it in the JSA but then they started enforcing it. So now the North Korean troops and the UN command troops do not intermingle even though their posts are feet away from one another.

Yeah, it would be a really big deal for one to attack the other because you would be crossing the border now. There's no free

free invasion. It would be an enormous deal. it would be an international incident. And in fact, there was something like that. In uh 1984, there was a a Soviet exchange student who was on a tour um with the North Koreans who ran across the border for to defect into the west and a firefight started that resulted in the deaths of three uh three North Koreans and one uh UN command South Korean soldier. Um and it was a huge again an international incident because some of the North Korean troops had run across the demarcation line to chase after the defector.

Yeah, for sure. So, everyone is like pretty happy and considered it a success except for Kissinger, of course.

Um the North Koreans back down really quickly. So, it really didn't give uh him any chance during this election year to kind of uh tout some big victory of America. I mean, it was a victory, but it I don't think it was like some huge international news thing. Um, he wanted he still wanted them to have blown up the barracks

or to have taken out like a warship or two as a like a big show of force. So, everyone was pretty stoked and and except for old Henry. Um, so they left that popppler tree there as a a reminder, a monument of sorts actually, until the 10th anniversary of the axe murder incident um on August 18th, 1986. They pulled the tree out, the stump and all, roots and all, and um replaced it with a memorial. And there's a plaque on it that reads, "On this spot was located the yellow popppler tree, which was the focal point of the axe murders of two United Nations command officers, Captain Arthur Bonafas and First Lieutenant Mark Barrett, who were attacked and killed by North Korean guards while supervising a work party trimming the tree on 18 August 1976."

And it's it's just so plainly put without any flowery language that it also just kind of gets across the the horrible absurdity of the whole thing.

Yeah, for sure. Um, and just a few years ago in 2022, there was a uh sort of a a joint show of um uh not friendship, but like maybe we should kind of literally put this to rest by planting a tree. Mh.

Uh, I think the presidents of the two countries got together in the JSA to plant a pine tree of peace.

Mhm. And they took turns shoveling soil from each side, watered it with rivers from each side.

Yeah. Uh, and the pine tree of peace became, you know, and and right now is sort of a big symbol of kind of what happened there and maybe let's try and just chill things out a little bit.

Yeah. What made it even more significant was that the South Korean president Moonja was actually one of the South Korean commandos who took part in Operation Paul Bunan.

Yeah, it's crazy. Uh and then there's one other little note that I found pretty interesting. Um there's a a onehole par three um well golf I don't think you could call it a course, but um it's it's like a astroturf par well a par three um that's surrounded by landmines. uh now where the popular tree used to be and it's called the most dangerous hole in golf from Sports Illustrated.

Yeah. And we never really said, you know, we kind of hinted around that this might have been all planned to begin with.

And there is circumstantial evidence that um suggests that that whole attack was pre-planned to begin with,

right? Um you know, cuz I mentioned that we had gotten in touch with them and said, "Hey, we're going to prune this tree." And no one really said like, "No, don't do that." And so that attack seemingly came out of nowhere. But uh one big clue was um I think 3 minutes after this incident occurred. Radio Pyongyang, which is the North Korean state radio, they broadcast a very biased report on this like right after it happened. So it seems pretty clear that it was pre-planned, but um analysis later on uh seems to indicate that the Soviets did not know about it and they were kind of acting on their own. No, I I saw one other piece of circumstantial evidence too that kind of is pretty definitive is that within five hours there was a non-aligned nation which were the nations during the cold war who didn't choose sides. All of them were meeting in Korea and um within five hours Korean delegates were at that meeting handing

out memos describing this the um axe murders and totally blaming it on the Americans like had completely flipped it around in an effort to kind of draw up support to get the Americans out. So that's um it does seem pretty likely that the North Koreans planned the axe murders.

Yeah, agreed. You got anything else? Uh, I got nothing else. This is a good one, man. Um, hats off to the uh person or people who suggested it and maybe listen out for a future random episode where we thank you for it.

I I couldn't find it. I might have found this on my own. I'll help you look. You know what? I think I was looking for live show topics and came across this.

Oh, cool. Yeah, this this would have been a good one, but there's there's a lot of downers, too.

Yeah. Not a lot of jokey, ridiculous stuff. Yeah. Uh, do you have anything else?

I do. I do not. Okay. Well, that means it's time for listener man. Uh, I'm going to call this the pain of preeemption cuz that's what Michael called it. Uh, hey guys. Love the Saturday Saturday morning cartoon episode. I was born in ' 84 and watched them well into high school. Uh, your episode covered a lot, but you left out one thing, the pain of preeemption. Local channels uh, carried the big networks would often cut off the cartoons to show golf, baseball, or other sports. And as a kid, I know, I never knew when this was going to happen. Uh, just suddenly the joy of cartoons was abruptly halted. Show a golf match that no kid would care about.

Uh, I never got to see the Christmas special, Christopher the Christmas Tree, or the last episode of Ultimate Muscle. I haven't heard of any either one of those.

I haven't either, but I still feel for him. Uh, he said, "I don't want to bring down the room, but it's important to remember that those wonderful mornings could be broken at any time." Uh, thanks for making such a great show. Uh that is from Michael J.Randle. And I forgot to mention Michael his initial salutation was dear Mike and Josh.

Wow. He's got himself on the brain. I know. Well, um that was a great email, Michael. And thank you too, Mike, for reading it.

Okay, I'll be Mike. No, you're not Mike. You're Chuck. Everybody knows that. That's my brother's middle name, too, though, so that doesn't fly.

Yeah. Scott Mike. That's Oh, no, no, no. That's his first name. I forget. My brother and my sister, their middle name is is uh their name, which is interesting. I'm not sure why that happened.

This has gotten so confusing to me. He's Michael Scott. Is he really? Yeah. That's awesome. Why are you not calling him that all the time?

I don't know. I probably should. I mean, that's the office guy, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I didn't I never have thought about that until right now. Well, that's what I'm going to call him from now on.

All right. Okay. Uh, if you want to be like Michael Crannle, not Michael Scott, and send us an email, uh, we would love that. Please do. You can send it off to stuffodcast@ iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Operation Paul Bunyan | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW"?

Josh Clark (Host), Charles W. "Chuck" Bryant (Host), Michael J. Randle (Guest).

What is "Operation Paul Bunyan | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW" about?

Operation Paul Bunyan refers to a significant military operation that occurred in 1976 at the Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), marking a response to heightened tensions in the area following the Korean War. The operation centered around the removal of a massive poplar tree that obstructed the view between U.S. and North Korean forces, symbolizing military presence and escalating conflicts during…

What is mentioned in this Stuff You Should Know episode?

148 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Arthur Bonafas, Captain Arthur Bonafas, Operation Paul Bunan, Operation Paul Bunan, Joint Security Area, Lieutenant Mark Barrett. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Operation Paul Bunyan | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW"?

The episode runs 44 min; the transcript is about 8,306 words in 159 timestamped sections.

More from Stuff You Should Know

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 9, 2026.