Short Stuff: Battle of Itter Castle | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

What this episode is about

The Battle of Itter Castle, one of the final confrontations of World War II in Europe, is notable for its unique coalition of German, American, and French forces, alongside soldiers from other nations, banding together against Nazi troops. This unusual and cinematic event highlights the complexities of alliances during the war and illustrates a dramatic final stand in a picturesque Austrian setting.

Key takeaways

• Last battles aren't just endings; they often bring unexpected alliances - like the ragtag team at Castle Eder.
• Castle Eder’s VIP prisoner list reads like a Who’s Who of history’s elite, highlighting the war’s dark irony.
• Hitler exits stage left, but the chaos in Castle Eder makes it a cinematic climax of World War II.
• The handyman's daring escape is straight out of a script, proving heroes often wear the simplest of costumes.
• Self-destruction on a grand scale: Vidder's final act is a dark twist in an already tragic storyline.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Josh Clark (Host) · 7 min speaking
• Chuck Bryant (Host) · 7 min speaking
• Jerry (Guest) · 1 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Josh Malcolm Clark, World War II, Castle Itter, Chuck Bryant
2. 3:00 – 6:00: World War II, American troops, Schutzstaffel, Dachau concentration camp
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Castle Itter, Josh Malcolm Clark, Jack C. Lee Jr., Sepp Gangl
4. 9:00 – 12:00: Sepp Gangl, Schutzstaffel, Ragtag group, Batten Jenny
5. 12:00 – 14:43: Jack C. Lee Jr., Major John T. Kramer, Ragtag group, Cinematic story

Notable quotes from "Short Stuff: Battle of Itter Castle | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW"

• And the reason why it's significant is two, it's one of the last battles of the European theater of World War II.

  about World War II · at 0:46

• For our story after the Nazis annex Austria in 1938, they took it over and a few years later in 1943, it became part of Dhau you know the death camp. And it served as a sort of…

  about Dachau concentration camp · at 2:14

• Surrender. but if you're in this castle, you're a little worried because the SS at this point, there's some SS that are hey, we're going to lay down our arms. The war is…

  about Schutzstaffel · at 3:51

• Vidder showed up, they're Well, this is it for us. But instead, Vidder took his own life. He shot himself in the heart. That didn't work.

  about Eduard Weiter · at 5:01

• Listen, man. We're legally the war's not quite over. We're not allowed to be in that area yet, but they were led by Major John T. Kramer, and he said there will be a podcaster…

  about Major John T. Kramer · at 6:03

• And he said, All right, I'm going to try and go get help. He finds Oh god, this is such a movie. He finds a German major, Sep Gangal. And this guy, you said, all Nazis were terrible.

  about Sepp Gangl · at 7:25

• Tank commander and his tank the Baten Jenny is the name of the tank and the commander's name is Jack C Lee Jr.

  about Jack C. Lee Jr. · at 8:11

• There's there's a really funny oh yeah who cares I'll go a little long there's a really funny Dana Gould comedy bit about his plan on his deathbed is to say you know I've buried a million dollars.

  about Dana Gould · at 11:45

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Josh Malcolm Clark — Person · Host · 3 mentions · first at 0:04
  Co-host of the episode; introduces the topic and narrates key parts of the Castle Itter battle story.
  Hey and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's sitting in for Dave, which makes this an official short stuff. Don't accept substitutes.
• Sepp Gangl — Person · Referenced military figure (anti-Nazi German) · 2 mentions · first at 7:29
  German major who broke with the SS and helped organize the defense of Castle Itter; killed by a sniper during the battle.
• Jack C. Lee Jr. — Person · Referenced military leader · 2 mentions · first at 8:15
  American tank commander who leads the defense at the castle after Sepp Gangl is killed; later awarded the Distinguished Service Cross.
• Chuck Bryant — Person · Co-host · 1 mention · first at 0:04
  Co-host who reacts to and helps narrate the story, emphasizing its cinematic nature.
  Hey and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's sitting in for Dave, which makes this an official short stuff. Don't accept substitutes.
• Major John T. Kramer — Person · Referenced military leader · 2 mentions · first at 6:08
  Leads the American tank column that arrives to relieve the siege and ends the battle.
• Eduard Weiter — Person · Referenced perpetrator · 1 mention · first at 5:05
  Identified as the 'butcher of Dachau' who appears at the castle while fleeing and then commits suicide; heightens prisoners' fear.
• Charles de Gaulle — Person · Referenced historical figure · 1 mention · first at 3:01
  Mentioned because a sister of Charles de Gaulle was among the VIP prisoners held at Castle Itter.
  Head of the military in World War II, correct? Or was he the No, he was the current prime minister, right, in exile?
• Benito Mussolini — Person · Referenced historical figure · 1 mention · first at 3:32
  Mentioned as recently killed, underscoring the rapid collapse of Axis leadership in early May 1945.
  Mussolini had been strung up and hung out to dry literally by partisans in Italy and it was just very clear that Germany had lost World War II and the European theater was coming to an.
• Dana Gould — Person · Referenced comedian · 2 mentions · first at 11:51
  Cited for a comedy bit about deathbed timing; used as an aside while discussing how 'movie-like' Gangl's death would be portrayed.

Companies & orgs

• Schutzstaffel — Company · Referenced organization (antagonist faction) · 2 mentions · first at 3:55
  Discussed as split between surrendering and fighting; the Waffen-SS combat detachment attacks Castle Itter.
• 17th Armored Infantry Battalion — Company · Referenced military unit · 1 mention · first at 8:31
  Mentioned as the battalion from which troops (including an all-Black Company D) were drawn to help defend the castle.
  That. Let's go. So he grabs a few members of his company, a few members of a nearby all black company D of the 17th Armored Infantry Battalion and assemble.

Products & tech

• Batten Jenny — Product · Referenced object (tank) · 2 mentions · first at 8:11
  Name of Captain Lee's tank; its destruction early in the siege removes key defensive firepower.
  Yeah. So Gangal is on his way now to Castle and on the way he runs into a tank commander and his tank the Baten Jenny is the name of the tank and the commander's name is Jack C Lee Jr.

Concepts & topics

• American troops — Concept · Key participant concept · 1 mention · first at 5:46
  American forces are contacted for rescue and ultimately relieve the siege; includes Major Kramer's column and Captain Lee's group.
  The castle said, You know what? I'm going to make a run for it, you guys, and I'm going to go and try and meet up with the American troops that are coming our way and see if I…
• Ragtag group — Concept · Narrative framing concept · 4 mentions · first at 1:18
  Describes the improvised coalition defending the castle (Americans, anti-Nazi Germans, prisoners, others).
  Places like Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. Like it was a like you mentioned a real mly crew. real rag tag group.
• VIP prison — Concept · Core setting concept · 1 mention · first at 2:37
  Castle Itter is described as a VIP prison holding high-value prisoners intended as hostages rather than executed.
  Of war that they thought could like we're not going to put these people to death. We think we might be able to use them as hostages. So we'll we'll hold them up in this castle…
• Cinematic story — Concept · Narrative framing concept · 2 mentions · first at 0:18
  Repeatedly emphasized by the hosts to highlight how movie-like the events are (unlikely alliance, siege, last-minute rescue).
  That's right. And I'm only going to say this at the beginning, but boy oh boy, this should be a movie this episode.
• Allied friendly troops — Concept · Key participant concept · 1 mention
  Describes Sepp Gangl's breakaway German group aligned with the Allies, crucial to the unusual coalition defending the castle.
  Leading a little group of Allied friendly...troops.
• Death camp — Concept · Contextual concept · 1 mention · first at 2:23
  Mentioned to characterize Dachau in the episode and emphasize the brutality surrounding the castle's role in the Nazi camp system.
  Austria in 1938, they took it over and a few years later in 1943, it became part of Dhau you know the death camp. And it served as a sort of a VIP prison for some high value…
• Nuts — Concept · Humorous reference · 1 mention · first at 6:14
  Used as a comedic aside referencing the famous WWII 'Nuts!' reply; framed as something Major Kramer would say.
  Major John T. Kramer, and he said there will be a podcaster one day that will coin the term nuts to that. But I'm going to say it right now. let's send a small detachment of tanks that way and see if we can help those guys out.

Places & events

• World War II — Event · Core topic · 4 mentions · first at 0:48
  The episode frames the Battle of Castle Itter as one of the last battles in the European theater of World War II.
• Castle Itter — Place · Core location · 2 mentions · first at 0:28
  Primary setting of the episode; site of the unusual battle where Americans, anti-Nazi Germans, and others defended VIP prisoners against the Waffen-SS.
  But it's also called Schlloitter, which is castle. and it's located in Austria in the Tyian region of Austria.
• European theatre of World War II — Event · Contextual event · 2 mentions · first at 0:50
  Used to situate the battle temporally as the war in Europe was ending in early May 1945.
  And the reason why it's significant is two, it's one of the last battles of the European theater of World War II.
• Dachau concentration camp — Place · Referenced location (system context) · 2 mentions · first at 2:20
  Castle Itter is described as part of the Dachau camp system and used as a VIP prison; provides the backdrop of Nazi imprisonment.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:04 Hey and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's sitting in for Dave, which makes this an official short stuff. Don't accept substitutes.

0:13 That's right. And I'm only going to say this at the beginning, but boy oh boy, this should be a movie this episode.

0:20 It's insane that it's not. Yeah. Really great cinematic story in every way. The way it, you know, is laid out there, you know.

0:28 Yeah. The battle of Castle. Would it be Ider or Ider? Well, here we go. We already don't know what to call it.

0:35 So, we're going to call it after John Ritter. Um, but it's also called Schlloitter, which is castle. Um, and it's located in Austria in the Tyian region of Austria.

0:46 And the reason why it's significant is two, uh, it's one of the last battles of the European theater of World War II. like I can't name any other battles after it but that doesn't really mean that much. And then the second reason is because it is a really unusual battle in that Germans got together with Americans and French and fought the Nazis in this battle.

1:12 Yeah. And other randos from different places like uh Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. Like it was a

1:18 like you mentioned a real mly crew. real rag tag group. Yeah, but you didn't put both them loud. You got to put it over the O, too.

1:27 Oh, I didn't. Oh, I'm sorry, man. I screwed up. It was pretty great, everyone. Josh put this together and he he typed out Mly Crew and he put um over the U

1:36 just clearly as a little uh little love letter to me. It was. Yeah, I got it. But I'm sorry. I screwed up the love letter.

1:44 No, it's fine. It's the thought that counts. That's what they say, right? Yeah, but that's really patronizing. What if this was the very last battle? That makes it even more cinematic.

1:54 I mean, it that's what I read. It was like one of the last and that could just somebody hedging, you know, and it could have been the last one.

2:02 Yeah. All right. So, this castle sitting up there uh since the 13th century since 1878, it's been kind of in its present form, and it's been a bunch of things. Uh it was a private estate for a while. It was a hotel for a while. But notably for our story uh after the Nazis annex Austria in uh 1938, they took it over and a few years later in 1943, it became part of Dhau uh you know the the death camp. And it served as a sort of a VIP um prison for some high value prisoners of war that they thought could like we're not going to put these people to death. We think we might be able to use them as hostages. So we'll we'll hold them up in this castle,

2:42 right? And there were some like real VIPs in there. There were two French generals, two former French prime ministers.

2:49 Yeah. A tennis star who'd become a politician. And one of the sisters of Charles de Gaul who was like I guess he was the head of the military in World War II, correct? Or was he the No, he was the current prime minister, right, in exile?

3:03 Oh, I thought he just built the airport. Yeah, hand by hand. But that was a side project that he did on weekends.

3:09 Yeah. Yeah. There were also, like you said, some Czech prisoners, some Yugoslavian prisoners. And um they were there for a couple of years. And in May of 1945, the beginning of May 1945, the war was not just starting to wind down, it was coming to like a a like a car smashing into a tree kind of stop because Hitler had just killed himself in Berlin. Mussolini had been strung up um and hung out to dry literally uh by partisans in Italy and um it was just very clear that that Germany had lost World War II and the European theater was coming to an end.

3:48 Yeah, that's right. They were literally about to offer up their formal surrender. Uh but if you're in this castle, you're a little worried because the SS at this point, uh there's some SS that are like, hey, you know, we're going to lay down our arms. The war is clearly over. Let's just get this over with. There's other SS that are like nine. I'm going to go down in a in a blaze of glory and kill everyone that I can before they formally call this thing over. And so if you were in this castle as a VIP prisoner, you were worried that they were going to be coming for you.

4:20 and they found out that that was true. Yeah. Um so one of the things that really unsettled them is on May 2nd, the butcher of Dao, the guy who ran the the prison camp, Edward Vidder, he showed up at the castle because remember this was like an annex of the Dao prison system. And he was on the run from the Allies who had just liberated the camp right after he had escaped. But being a horrible, terrible Nazi, as all Nazis are, um he ordered the execution of 2,000 prisoners on his way out the door. Um the people at Castle Eder had heard about this. I mean, that's kind of a big deal even in World War II, even in Germany. And um they the fact that Vidder showed up, they're like, "Well, this is this is it for us." But instead, Vidder took his own life. He shot himself in the heart. That didn't work.

5:10 So then he shot himself in the head while he had shot himself in the heart. Yeah. So he really finished the job.

5:17 Uh couple of day, I guess they were briefly relieved. They're like, "Oh, well, thank God."

5:22 Uh but a couple of days after that, the commandment of the castle and all the guards, they left. And so all of a sudden, all these people are trapped in this castle. These prisoners, there's no way to get out. Uh even if they could get out, they know that there are probably hostile Germans nearby and they don't want to meet up with them. So, a handyman, a Yugoslavian handyman, uh, in the castle said, "You know what? I'm going to make a run for it, you guys, and I'm going to go and try and meet up with the American troops that are coming our way and see if I can get us some help and and rescue." Uh, he did make it to the Americans, which is again, if this is a movie, it's like an amazing success story that he found the Americans

6:00 and didn't get shot. Yeah. And the Americans were like, "Hey, listen, man. We're legally the war's not quite over. We're not allowed to be in that area yet, but they were led by Major John T. Kramer, and he said there will be a podcaster one day that will coin the term nuts to that. But I'm going to say it right now. Uh, let's send a small detachment of tanks that way and see if we can help those guys out.

6:24 I can't take credit for that. I learned that from Grandpa and Simpsons. Oh, was that him?

6:29 Yeah, that's funny. Um, so yeah, Major John Kramer says, "We're going to go help you guys." and he he leads a column of tanks over. He turns the the steering wheels and heads them toward Castle. Um, and I say we take a break here because I think it's a pretty good spot.

6:45 Yeah, let's do it. S Y SK you should know S YSK you should know Brian Josh Clark. All right. So meanwhile, back at the castle, these prisoners, they don't know what's happened to this Yugoslavian handyman that went for help because obviously it's, you know, he can't send word back. So another uh volunteer step forward. This is the cook of the castle and he said, "All right, I'm going to try and go get help." He finds Oh god, this is such a movie. He finds a German major, Sep Gangal. And this guy, you said, you know, all Nazis were terrible.

7:36 I guess you would call him almost a former Nazi because he was one of the dudes that was like, "No, this is what we're doing isn't right." So, he broke with the SS. He was leading a little group of Allied friendly friendly troops. So, he was a complete turncoat. And he said, "All right, let's get together and go get these prisoners. Like, we finally have a job to do." Um, like uh you know, the guns of the Navaron style. Let's go. Let's go save these prisoners.

8:04 Yeah. So Gangal is on his way now to um Castle and on the way he runs into a tank commander and his tank the Baten Jenny is the name of the tank and the commander's name is Jack C Lee Jr. Captain and um Gangal tells him what's going on and Jack C Lee says you know sir I'd really like to take part in that. Let's go. So he grabs a few members of his company, a few members of a nearby all black company D of the 17th Armored Infantry Battalion and assemble.

8:38 Yeah. All played by Jim Brown in different disguises. And then um he uh puts them all together and he and Gangal and their ragtag group of people start moving toward Castle. And this is not like some sort, first of all, this isn't sanctioned. um this is not like uh some obvious platoon that's already been assembled like this is just a group of people who almost were like yeah I want to go get those people out of that castle and they said come on and that's this is the group that's moving toward castle and they finally get there um I think about 12 hours before the siege finally began on the castle

9:15 yeah so they suspected there were Germans coming their way and they were right the waen SS they were the combat detachment of the SS really bad dudes, very elite fighters. Uh they arrive at the castle, like you said, about 12 hours after this ragtag group is there to defend them. And they take out Basat and Jenny right away. They take out that tank. Uh was pretty smart move, I guess, to go ahead and get the heavy artillery down.

9:39 Mhm. Uh it was parked in front of the main gate. So with that tank gone, uh they were basically, you know, fully free to just assault this castle outright. Uh and a and a battle starts. Uh like a really gruesome battle. Um they inside the prison they had broken into the armory so they had some stuff to defend themselves with like pistols some rifles and machine guns but this was these are pistols and machine guns and rifles not not heavy artillery which is kind of what they needed at that point.

10:06 Yeah. I think the Nazis had some 80 mm gun that they were using to pound the castle walls. This is like a medieval siege that's going on but with modern um armory right?

10:15 Yeah. And uh at first like it looked like okay the people in the castle might be able to hold this off. There's like a hundred um waffen SS attacking them. Uh but then they started to run low on ammunition. And it doesn't really matter what kind of gun you have. If you don't have bullets to shoot out of it, you're in trouble if the people who are you're fighting do still have bullets. And so by noon it was starting to look really grim. Uh and also by this time Gangal had been killed by a Nazi sniper. And I saw that Jack Lee, Captain Lee, was already the de facto commander. Even the two French generals were deferring to his command. Um, but he was kind of co-commanding with Gangal. Now he was alone commanding this whole thing by himself. Um, and he came up with a plan basically to to hide everybody in the castle keep.

11:06 Yeah, I really felt bad for a Gongle because he turncoded against the Nazis. He's doing the right thing. He brought them there and and just like a movie scene, he's up on the on the top like trying to get a assessment of the situation and gets taken out by a sniper. It's like such a powerful movie scene, you know.

11:25 Yeah. The only thing about it you would have to change is that he was probably killed instantly. Um he would have to have been shot like somewhere where he could

11:34 tell Lee to Yeah. Get them. Get these people out of here alive. Yeah. tells them I said

11:42 tell the Nazis I said suck it there's there's a really funny uh oh yeah who cares I'll go a little long there's a really funny uh Dana Gould comedy bit about uh his plan on his deathbed

11:57 is to say you know I've buried a million dollars and it's located at oh man and he and That's kind of funny. But the the real punch line they see is like you got to time it just right. He said otherwise you just have to lay there and pretend you're dead for the remaining minutes of your life.

12:18 It's pretty good stuff. Yeah, it's great stuff. The great Dana Gold. Uh all right. So, uh Gongal is taken out. Lee comes up with that plan to get um holed up in the keep, which is what a keep is for. That's where you take your last stand in a castle. So, it's, you know, not a bad plan. and he was like, "Hey, let's feed this SS into that narrow passage that leads to the keep and just see if we can pick them off one by one as they come in there."

12:40 Yeah. And it's not a bad plan, but the chances of anyone in the castle surviving during that plan is pretty low. And then just as things were at their most hopeless. Seriously, this is how it happened. that column of tanks that was originally contacted by the um Yugoslavian handyman who first made a run for it,

13:01 led by Major Kramer show up and they flank the Nazis or attack the Nazis from the rear and just immediately scatter the people besieging this castle and the battle ends almost immediately.

13:13 Yeah. And oh man, if this is true, then it just writes itself because supposedly Kramer got to the castle, met up with Captain Lee, and Lee said, "What kept you?"

13:26 That was a quote from Lee later on recounting it. Yeah, I would punch that up to What took you so long?

13:30 Yeah. With like a little wink or something. But uh and then maybe they fall in love.

13:34 Yeah. Or and Kramer responds with uh traffic. Oh man, they fall. It's so perfect. uh you know very sadly uh well I mean I guess it's good news that Gongo was the only casualty. Uh it's sad that that was him again because he he was pretty brave for going against his own kind.

13:54 Uh but he was the only casualty out of all of that and this rag tag group held off this force until the uh reinforcements arrived like happy ending.

14:03 Major Lee lived to be an old man. I think he died in the 70s and uh he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for this.

14:11 Amazing. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. This is movie stuff like out the yin-yang. Right out the yin-yang,

14:18 which means of course short stuff is out. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Short Stuff: Battle of Itter Castle | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW"?

Josh Clark (Host), Chuck Bryant (Host), Jerry (Guest).

What is "Short Stuff: Battle of Itter Castle | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW" about?

The Battle of Itter Castle, one of the final confrontations of World War II in Europe, is notable for its unique coalition of German, American, and French forces, alongside soldiers from other nations, banding together against Nazi troops. This unusual and cinematic event highlights the complexities of alliances during the war and illustrates a dramatic final stand in a picturesque Austrian…

What is mentioned in this Stuff You Should Know episode?

23 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including World War II, Josh Malcolm Clark, Castle Itter, Sepp Gangl, Jack C. Lee Jr., Chuck Bryant. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Short Stuff: Battle of Itter Castle | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW"?

The episode runs 15 min; the transcript is about 2,799 words in 49 timestamped sections.

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