Episode 297

What this episode is about

The content discusses the dark themes and violence of the show "Sword and Scale," while highlighting a chilling incident from June 5, 1994, involving a woman at a gas station in Lake City, Florida, whose car broke down. The narrative reflects on the unsettling nature of real-life crime and the show's irreverent approach to these topics, alongside promotional details for their television project and subscription service.

Key takeaways

• Listener discretion advised: Sword and Scale's raw tales uncover humanity's darkest edges—grip your headphones tightly.
• Podcasts: Fill your ears with tales of terror, now with a subscription fueled TV twist. Tune in if you dare.
• From headless bodies to egg crate toppers, forensic science is the ultimate plot twist in true crime drama.
• Bleach covers a multitude of crimes, but not all evidence is washed away; heed the dog's barked discovery.
• Amidst crime scenes and sharp storytelling, question everything—even the narrators. Truth may vary with perspective.

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Sword and Scale, Alex Kennedy, Android, buy 1 get one free
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Jesse Hyde, Camaro, Fred Ler, Lake City, Florida
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Jesse Hyde, $60,000 grant, Chatterbait, child pornography
4. 30:00 – 40:00: naturist, Fred Ler, American Association of Need Recreation, dependent on his tax filings
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Fred Ler, Camaro, fingerprint, Jesse Hyde
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Jesse Hyde, Fred Ler, child pornography, 45 terabytes
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Fred Ler, Jesse Hyde, Camaro, David D

Notable quotes from "Episode 297"

• Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

  about Sword and Scale · at 0:00

• A woman noticed her car making a funny noise while driving along the interstate in Lake City, Florida. After pulling into a BP gas station to have a mechanic take a look, she decided to kill some time by walking her dog around the property.

  about Lake City, Florida · at 2:57

• Had light brown hair. Unfortunately, at the time, there weren't any missing persons in the NCIS database fitting this description. After the items found in the dumpster were…

  about NCIS database · at 9:42

• Dumpster. It looked like a sports car to me. Sports car back then was like a Firebird or Camaro.

  about Camaro · at 11:28

• In 2015, the cousins of a young man named Fred Ler were researching cold cases online.

  about Fred Ler · at 14:32

• Connection to investigators over the phone, which was a family acquaintance named Ron Hyde. Ron Hyde had been a trusted figure in their lives. The family knew Ron Hyde very…

  about Jesse Hyde · at 15:45

• All right. I don't need to know particular details of it. Well, just not child pornography that doesn't do it for me.

  about child pornography · at 23:30

• Do you have any nudity stuff? any nudist naturist anything like that. Is that something you would look up or anything?

  about naturist · at 34:59

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Fred Ler — Person · 17 mentions · first at 14:34
• Jesse Hyde — Person · 17 mentions · first at 15:50
• Alex Kennedy — Person · 2 mentions · first at 0:14
  You understand that there's evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy, but that don't make it.
• Dr. Margarita Aruza — Person · 1 mention · first at 9:10
  Examiner's Office in Jacksonville, Florida, where seasoned forensic pathologist Dr. Margarita Aruza conducted her examination.
• Travis J. Lasser — Person · 1 mention · first at 25:20
  Travis J. Lasser and it's L A S T E R.
• Dr. Ed Stalenecker — Person · 1 mention · first at 31:24
  The church's pastor, Dr. Ed Stalenecker, had previously been investigated for financial fraud and other shady activities.
• Brian Wei — Person · 1 mention · first at 55:19
  The Toronto-based company run by a man named Brian Wei distributed child exploitation videos through a website called avilms.com.
• David D — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:00:47
  David D, Jasmine, and Ginger for being a bad father. Joey, Christian, Travis, and Fred.
• Shayna Jasmine — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:00:47
  David D, Jasmine, and Ginger for being a bad father. Joey, Christian, Travis, and Fred.

Companies & orgs

• Sword and Scale — Company · 3 mentions · first at 0:00
• NCIS database — Company · 3 mentions · first at 9:47
• Strength for Living Church — Company · 2 mentions · first at 31:12
  Community Church in Jacksonville. Are you surprised? He later became a youth pastor at Strength for Living Church, which is where he met Fred's older brother, Travis. It was around this time that Hyde started living a double life.
• Sword and Scale Television — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:11
  We're making a few changes around here, moving the furniture around and whatnot. Making sword and scale television a little more sword and scaly cuz we know what you like.…
• swordandscale.com — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:43
  There and check them out in like a couple days if you wanted to. The place to go is swordandscale.com or you can just download the app on your Android device or your Apple…
• Android — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:48
  To go is swordandscale.com or you can just download the app on your Android device or your Apple device or whatever kind of device you want a device with. And I guess that's…
• Columbia County Sheriff's Office — Company · 1 mention · first at 5:30
  And looked over and could see a body with no head on it. After notifying the police, deputies from the Columbia County Sheriff's Office promptly arrived on scene, only to be met by the dismembered torso of a young white male.
• District 4 Medical Examiner's Office — Company · 1 mention · first at 9:04
  The next day on June 6th, the torso was transported to the District 4 Medical Examiner's Office in Jacksonville, Florida, where seasoned forensic pathologist Dr. Margarita Aruza conducted her examination.
• Crime Stoppers — Company · 1 mention · first at 12:33
  Unidentified John Doe made national headline news, and the story was picked up by programs like Crimestoppers and America's Most Wanted. Meanwhile, investigators work…
• America's Most Wanted — Company · 1 mention · first at 12:35
  Headline news, and the story was picked up by programs like Crimestoppers and America's Most Wanted. Meanwhile, investigators work tirelessly pursuing leads. But despite…
• National Center for Missing and Exploited Children — Company · 1 mention · first at 15:10
  Fred, who had disappeared without a trace around the same time. The poster provided by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website also included a photo of…
• Chatterbait — Company · 1 mention · first at 24:07
  Okay. I'm familiar with Chatterbait.
• X Hamster — Company · 1 mention · first at 24:27
• Strength for Living Baptist — Company · 1 mention · first at 25:47
  It was Strength for Living Baptist who no longer exists.
• Jacksonville Sheriff's Office — Company · 1 mention · first at 26:02
  Man's entire background before they even walked into the room, including how he was once an employee of the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.
• Department of Corrections — Company · 1 mention · first at 26:12
  Get this. Back in the uh7s, Hyde worked as a mentor to teenage sex offenders within the Department of Corrections.
• American Association of Need Recreation — Company · 1 mention · first at 35:14
  I am a member of the American Association of Need Recreation.
• FBI hotline — Company · 1 mention · first at 53:03
  About the nearly 23-year-old cold case to come forward. To their surprise, tips came flooding into the FBI hotline.
• Toronto Police Service — Company · 1 mention · first at 54:45
  Undercover online officers with the child exploitation section of the Toronto Police Service made contact with a male on the internet who was sharing very graphic images of…
• avilms.com — Company · 1 mention · first at 55:24
  Named Brian Wei distributed child exploitation videos through a website called avilms.com.
• US Postal Inspection Service — Company · 1 mention · first at 55:48
  Going to get a lot of emails. The operation involved extensive cooperation with the US Postal Inspection Service and led to the seizure of 45 terabytes of illegal material.…
• Asov Films — Company · 1 mention · first at 56:27
  Authorities lacked enough evidence to make an arrest. Here's what Hyde had to say about Asov Films when it was brought up during his interrogation.
• BP — Company · 1 mention
• Crosswater Community Church — Company · 1 mention
• Exos — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• Camaro — Product · 6 mentions · first at 11:34
• Firebird — Product · 1 mention · first at 11:34
  Dumpster. It looked like a sports car to me. Sports car back then was like a Firebird or Camaro.
• red Solo cup — Product · 1 mention · first at 20:35
  At the top of the first trash bag was a piece of the suspect's mail, as well as a red Solo cup that contained several used Zicam nasal swabs. After those items were sent off…
• hazmat suits — Product · 1 mention · first at 21:23
  Pretty much all day we've been seeing people in hazmat suits. We saw guitar cases being brought out. There's a wheelbarrow tractor. They're bringing out evidence left and right. It looks like.
• respirators — Product · 1 mention · first at 22:33
  Putrid that the crime scene techs and authorities alike were forced to wear respirators while navigating through piles of garbage.
• billboards — Product · 1 mention · first at 52:52
  In the days that followed, authorities used billboards to call upon the public, pleading for anyone with information about the nearly 23-year-old cold case to come forward. To their surprise, tips came flooding into the FBI hotline.
• writable discs — Product · 1 mention · first at 57:18
  Oh. Is right. During the search of his home, authorities located six writable discs. On them was a vast collection of child pornography buried among heaps of trash.
• digital camera — Product · 1 mention · first at 57:27
  Investigators also recovered a digital camera. Apparently, when Hyde wasn't busy looking at children being sexually abused, he was out taking less vulgar photos, documenting a life of leisure.
• video camcorder — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:01:17
  Allegedly carried out acts of sexual abuse with the aforementioned children while using a video camcorder.
• Ajax — Product · 1 mention
• Comet — Product · 1 mention
• Ginsu — Product · 1 mention
• Sword and Scale Plus — Product · 1 mention
• Zicam — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

• fingerprint — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 9:58
  In the dumpster were processed, forensic analysts were unable to lift any usable fingerprints.
• child pornography — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 23:34
• naturist — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 35:07
• interstate — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 3:00
  A woman noticed her car making a funny noise while driving along the interstate in Lake City, Florida. After pulling into a BP gas station to have a mechanic take a look, she decided to kill some time by walking her dog around the.
• DNA testing — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 14:05
  And sent back to the lab. Nearly 16 years after this mysterious crime occurred, advancements in DNA testing led investigators to re-examine the items from the crime scene. Two…
• youth pastor — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 31:10
  Also volunteered at Crosswwater Community Church in Jacksonville. Are you surprised? He later became a youth pastor at Strength for Living Church, which is where he met Fred's…
• Project Spade — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 54:38
  Three-year international child pornography investigation out of Toronto called Project Spade. In October 2010, undercover online officers with the child exploitation section of…
• season 12, episode 297 — Concept · 1 mention · first at 0:35
  Anyway, this is season 12, episode 297 of Sword and Scale, a show, an irreverent show that proves that the worst monsters are real.
• buy 1 get one free — Concept · 1 mention · first at 7:56
  Soaked foam egg crate mattress topper, orange latex gloves, and two Ginsu style kitchen knives. A great buy 1 get one free value. One of them was a 8- in serrated blade, while…
• Jetsons — Concept · 1 mention · first at 13:44
  Perhaps someday in the future, when the cars are driving themselves and we're all living like the Jetsons, we'll be able to solve this strange and obscure case.
• John Doe poster — Concept · 1 mention · first at 14:46
  But when his family came across a John Doe poster for a male victim whose torso was behind a dumpster 21 years before, the description was hauntingly familiar.
• Hoarders — Concept · 1 mention · first at 22:19
  Interior goes, Hyde's Jacksonville Beach home rivaled any dwelling shown on the television show Hoarders. You've seen that show, right? It's pretty horrifying.
• psychology degree — Concept · 1 mention · first at 26:16
  Years later, Hyde earned his psychology degree from the University of Florida in 1981.
• human anatomy — Concept · 1 mention · first at 26:24
  He also took classes to become a nurse at one point, studying human anatomy.
• $60,000 grant — Concept · 1 mention · first at 26:46
  Upon looking into his background further, authorities learned that Hyde also attempted to secure a $60,000 grant to open a counseling center for abused teenagers.
• counseling center for abused teenagers — Concept · 1 mention · first at 26:50
  Further, authorities learned that Hyde also attempted to secure a $60,000 grant to open a counseling center for abused teenagers.
• financial fraud — Concept · 1 mention · first at 31:29
  The church's pastor, Dr. Ed Stalenecker, had previously been investigated for financial fraud and other shady activities.
• local gospel talk show — Concept · 1 mention · first at 31:37
  Stalenecker was a known drinker and allowed people to smoke in church while hosting a local gospel talk show with his wife on the side. Beware of false prophets, they say.…
• dependent on his tax filings — Concept · 1 mention · first at 33:32
  Investigators also learned that Hyde had been claiming Fred and his siblings as dependent on his tax filings for years.
• master's degree in education — Concept · 1 mention · first at 34:50
  4 years after Fred's murder, Hyde earned his master's degree in education in 1998 and later applied for a job as counselor for a so-called nudist organization he belonged to.
• nudist organization — Concept · 1 mention · first at 34:56
  His master's degree in education in 1998 and later applied for a job as counselor for a so-called nudist organization he belonged to.
• polygraph — Concept · 1 mention · first at 52:24
  After leaving him to ponder over whether or not to take a polygraph, he eventually invoked his right to speak with an attorney. Following a nearly 6-hour interview, Ron Hyde was asked to stand, placed into handcuffs, and.
• 45 terabytes — Concept · 1 mention · first at 55:51
  Operation involved extensive cooperation with the US Postal Inspection Service and led to the seizure of 45 terabytes of illegal material. Those arrested included teachers, medical professionals, clergy, and law enforcement personnel.
• Jacksonville trial — Concept · 1 mention · first at 59:10
  Roughly 5 years later, Ron Hyde would finally see his day in court. A long delayed Jacksonville trial is underway for a man charged with murdering and dismembering a 16-year-old boy back in 1994.
• forensic anthropologist — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:02:04
  Vividly recalled seeing the same type of knives and non-slip bathtub decals found at the crime scene. The forensic anthropologist testified about the knives as well, where she…
• life in prison without the possibility of parole — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:06:07
  Conviction, Hyde asked to be sentenced right away. The judge agreed. He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, ending multiple decades of illusion, deception, and sexual abuse.
• vapor wave — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:09:52
  For the boomers in the house. This style of music is called vapor wave. It's reminiscent of the mid80s, a time that I'm sure a lot of our listeners remember cuz you're all old.
• mid80s — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:09:55
  For the boomers in the house. This style of music is called vapor wave. It's reminiscent of the mid80s, a time that I'm sure a lot of our listeners remember cuz you're all old.
• $745 — Concept · 1 mention
• 1998 — Concept · 1 mention
• 2010 — Concept · 1 mention
• 2015 — Concept · 1 mention
• FAP — Concept · 1 mention
• journal (2014) — Concept · 1 mention
• jury — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• Lake City, Florida — Place · 4 mentions · first at 3:02
• Columbia County — Place · 1 mention · first at 5:30
  And looked over and could see a body with no head on it. After notifying the police, deputies from the Columbia County Sheriff's Office promptly arrived on scene, only to be met by the dismembered torso of a young white male.
• Interstate 10 — Place · 1 mention · first at 17:14
  In the early morning of June 5th, 1994, a woman made a horrible discovery behind a BP gas station off Interstate 10. Not sure what kind of discovery you would make behind a BP gas station that was anything but horrible, but I digress.
• Jacksonville Beach, Florida — Place · 1 mention · first at 20:22
  2016, a trash pull was conducted at Ron Hyde's Jacksonville Beach, Florida home. Two garbage bags were removed from a bin he had placed by the roadside.
• inter coastal waterway — Place · 1 mention · first at 1:04:43
  May have been where he discarded the remains. The creek he described as part of Florida's inter coastal waterway, which flows into the Atlantic Ocean.
• A1A — Place · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

0:12 You understand that there's evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy, but that don't make it.

0:18 We're not talking about the Kennedy assassination. We're talking about you talking about putting a 16-year-old boy in a dumpster. You know, listening's a choice, right? Some of you idiots act like you're uh doing your civic duty by censoring me. Anyway, this is season 12, episode 297 of Sword and Scale, a show, an irreverent show that proves that the worst monsters are real.

1:06 We're making a few changes around here, you know, moving the furniture around and whatnot. Making sword and scale television a little more sword and scaly cuz we know what you like. Anyway, check it out if you haven't. If you're already subscribed to Sword and Scope Plus, it's just another 10 bucks to uh fund our television making project, I guess you would say. And uh we've got about I don't know what 15 episodes now. So, you could just pop in there and check them out in like a couple days if you wanted to. The place to go is swordandscale.com or you can just download the app on your Android device or your Apple device or whatever kind of device you want a device with. And um I guess that's it. I guess that's it. I said I was going to keep these short and I lied. I'm a filthy dirty liar and you should never ever believe anything I say or any other podcast host says because we're all a bunch of filthy liars. Enjoy.

2:22 Heat up on the afternoon of June 5th, 1994. A woman noticed her car making a funny noise while driving along the interstate in Lake City, Florida. After pulling into a BP gas station to have a mechanic take a look, she decided to kill some time by walking her dog around the property.

3:14 I was uh working that morning. the lady uh I can't remember if she was towed in or but I know her car was broke down and we were uh working on her car and she walked her dog.

3:30 Okay. And so she walked her dog out in that field that was beside the station. Mhm.

3:36 And the dog picked up on the scene. While walking toward the back of the business, the woman's dog started to pull on its leash toward a nearby dumpster. Not exactly a great sign. At first, she thought her dog had tracked an animal like a raccoon that may be rummaging through the trash. As the hair on the canine's back stood up, she noticed a stench of bleach and then rot, becoming more pungent with each step she took. Moments later, the dog stopped in his tracks and started barking uncontrollably. He was clearly fixated on something behind the dumpster.

4:20 As the woman inched her way to get a closer look, she could see a partially opened black contractor bag on the ground. She could see that something was hanging out of the plastic, but wasn't sure what until her dog snout moved the bag just enough to reveal the gruesome contents inside. She come back in thinking it was like a mannequin or something back there.

4:48 Yes, sir. I just I just don't, you know, thought she was crazy, so I decided I would go look.

4:57 The gas station owner's first reaction upon scoping out the scene was one of frustration. He thought the dark-coled stains on the side of the dumpster and the concrete were transmission fluid and that one of his lazy employees had simply made a mess. That is until he peeled back the trash bag to get a closer look.

5:19 I went right around the edge and looked over and could see a body with no head on it. After notifying the police, deputies from the Columbia County Sheriff's Office promptly arrived on scene, only to be met by the dismembered torso of a young white male.

5:42 The body was laying on his back, right hand side. One arm was up. There was no hand on it. The other arm, the left arm was down to the side. There was no head on the body. The uh legs had been cut off at the bottoms.

6:03 The head, hands, and feet were all missing from the scene. The man's arms had been cut at the elbow, while the extremities were severed just below the pelvic bone, leaving only the penis and genitals intact. What a scene. The victim also had a mole located on his lower right chest. One of the first things investigators noticed was how precise the cuts were, almost surgical. There were no defensive wounds visible on the body, and the remains looked like they had been scrubbed clean. There was very little blood on the corpse itself with no signs of decay or rigor indicating that whoever this person was, he hadn't been dead for very long. As more detectives flocked to the gas station parking lot, it became apparent that the killer attempted to hide the remains in the dumpster, but may have had some trouble lifting the bag. But it was like a puddle of blew it uh blood there and the stain left the puddle and

7:16 went around the back. Okay. You could tell something had been drove through there.

7:20 Yes, sir. Blood smears on the upper part of the trash compartment indicated that someone had tried to toss the bag torso in the trash but had missed. The drag marks of blood and dirt visible on the asphalt trailing behind the dumpster supported this theory as well. Inside the dumpster itself, detectives found several black garbage bags. In them were a blood soaked foam egg crate mattress topper, orange latex gloves, and two Ginsu style kitchen knives. A great buy 1 get one free value. One of them was a 8- in serrated blade, while the other was a small standard stake knife. On the blade and handles of both instruments was the presence of a white powder-like substance that appeared to be some kind of bleach like Ajax or Comet.

8:21 Brightly colored floral-shaped bath decals, a non-slip mat, and a red bloodstained flannel shirt were also recovered from the inside of the trash bags. While crime scene techs sifted through the trash collecting evidence, deputies interviewed the few witnesses there were, including the gas station owner, in hopes of learning who might be responsible. Is there anything I hadn't asked you about that I need to ask you or something you think about that bothered you or anything about it like that?

8:54 No, nothing really bothers me. It's one of them type deals I wish I'd never had to see it.

9:00 Yes, sir. The next day on June 6th, the torso was transported to the District 4 Medical Examiner's Office in Jacksonville, Florida, where seasoned forensic pathologist Dr. Margarita Aruza conducted her examination. It was determined that the male had traces of over-the-counter cold or flu medicine in his system, suggesting that the victim may have been immobilized or incapacitated before the dismemberment. The autopsy also revealed that the male victim was likely between 15 and 22 years old, stood around 5'8 in tall, and had light brown hair. Unfortunately, at the time, there weren't any missing persons in the NCIS database fitting this description. After the items found in the dumpster were processed, forensic analysts were unable to lift any usable fingerprints.

10:00 Having said that, a strand of hair was found on the latex glove, and the bloody flannel and mattress topper had the obvious presence of DNA. Unfortunately, due to the lack of resources back in the mid90s, the items were ultimately sheld in an evidence locker somewhere in Lake City, Florida, where they would remain indefinitely, kind of like in the final scene of Indiana Jones. As the investigation slowly unfolded, the small town of Lake City buzzed with whispers and rumors. Gossip about a truck that had been allegedly cited in the gas station parking lot started to circulate. Some claimed that it was a van they saw leaving the area before the gruesome discovery was made.

10:51 Some kind of report I heard, I don't know where I heard of a van. Police followed up on these leads, but they were all dead ends. The first substantial clue came shortly after the story broke when a witness came forward with new information. Around 7:00 a.m. on June 5th, 1994, a man was driving past the BP gas station on his way home after working the night shift. This is when he noticed a suspicious car parked at the scene hours before the body was found. Yesterday was a car backed up to the dumpster. It looked like a sports car to me. Sports car back then was like a Firebird or Camaro.

11:37 Way the hood was slanted down. It loo appeared to be dark. I couldn't tell you exactly what color. It looked like a dark color vehicle.

11:48 The sleek sports car would have turned heads anywhere in Lake City, Florida. But the fact that it was seen backed up to a dumpster in the early morning hours made the vehicle that much more memorable. The witness told investigators it looked like someone was in the process of finishing up unloading something from the two door coupe. The driver's door was open and the back hatch was up. The witness said that he could see someone in the driver's seat, but was unable to get a good look and couldn't really make out his or her physical description.

12:25 It wasn't long before the case of the unidentified John Doe made national headline news, and the story was picked up by programs like Crimestoppers and America's Most Wanted. Meanwhile, investigators work tirelessly pursuing leads. But despite garnering widespread attention, authorities had little to go on. Months eventually turned into years and public interest fizzled out. The people of Lake City eventually carried on with their lives. And before the year was over, the case had officially gone cold.

13:11 Years went by and the case faded from the spotlight into obscurity. The unanswered questions surrounding the torso behind the dumpster seemed destined to remain that way. As for law enforcement, the case was never far from their minds. Authorities held on to the slim chance that the evidence now collecting dust might one day reveal the truth. Perhaps someday in the future, you know, when the cars are driving themselves and we're all living like the Jetsons, we'll be able to solve this strange and obscure case. Well, that chance ultimately came in 2010 when the bloody flannel shirt and orange gloves were pulled from storage and sent back to the lab. Nearly 16 years after this mysterious crime occurred, advancements in DNA testing led investigators to re-examine the items from the crime scene. Two partial DNA profiles were located, but neither matched any known offenders in the NCIS database.

14:21 It was progress, but not enough. And it wouldn't be for another 5 years until investigators truly started connecting the dots. In 2015, the cousins of a young man named Fred Ler were researching cold cases online. Fred was only 16 years old when he went missing back in 1994. But when his family came across a John Doe poster for a male victim whose torso was behind a dumpster 21 years before, the description was hauntingly familiar. the age range, the height, the specific physical features, they all matched Fred, who had disappeared without a trace around the same time. The poster provided by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website also included a photo of the red flannel shirt and bathtub decals that had been inside the dumpster.

15:22 Fred's cousins then contacted the missing teen's brothers and sisters who remembered having seen these items before.

15:31 Found a shirt he was wearing at the time and I found the uh my cousins described the u the skid things in the bathtub. Fred's siblings revealed a disturbing connection to investigators over the phone, which was a family acquaintance named Ron Hyde. Ron Hyde had been a trusted figure in their lives. The family knew Ron Hyde very well, and all of the children had been inside his home many times. The missing teen's family went on to inform investigators that Hyde was known to drive a darkcoled Camaro resembling the vehicle spotted near the crime scene in 1994.

16:18 This little revelation prompted detectives to take a closer look into Ron Hyde for the first time since the torso was found over two decades ago. In the early morning of June 5th, 1994, a woman made a horrible discovery behind a BP gas station off Interstate 10. Not sure what kind of discovery you would make behind a BP gas station that was anything but horrible, but I digress. I digress a lot these days. It's starting to become a bad habit. Anyway, there was a dismembered torso stripped of identifying features wrapped in bloodstained plastic behind that BP gas station. In fact, it was behind a dumpster behind that BP gas station. The gruesome find sent shock waves through the small Florida community. But despite extensive forensic efforts and witness tips, the case hit one dead end after the next. The investigation went cold, leaving behind a trail of unanswered questions and a nameless victim. It

18:07 wasn't until two decades later that Fred Ler's cousin stumbled upon a flyer featuring items recovered at a 1994 crime scene related to a John Doe. When the family alerted authorities in 2015, they shared another chilling detail. Fred was last heard from while in the company of a trusted family acquaintance named Ron Hyde. Fred's family also revealed that Hyde drove a dark-coled Camaro similar to the one spotted at the crime scene. According to the family's statements to police, in the early summer of 1994, Fred packed a bag with a handful of clothes before leaving his sister's apartment and getting into Ron Hyde's vehicle, who had come to pick him up. At the time, his siblings believed Fred was preparing to leave on tour with his band in the following days. He was supposed to do a short stint of shows down the Florida coastline. But when Fred's siblings received a phone call from him hours later, they knew something wasn't

19:16 right. She said, "Fred," and he said, "Yeah." And she's like, "Um, are you with Ron?" And he said, "Yeah." And like a really different tone, had a funny tone to him. and she's like, "You're okay." And he said "Yeah."

19:31 Fred's sister told police that her brother sounded strange over the phone and not like his normal self. He sounded distant, both emotionally and literally. According to Fred's sister, it sounded like he was outside when he called her. When she asked Fred what was going on, he told her that he had just called to tell his family that he loved them. A short time later, after this new information surfaced, investigators followed up with Fred's siblings to collect swabs of their DNA. The results ultimately came back as a match to the blood found on the red flannel shirt, confirming that Fred had been murdered.

20:15 Roughly one year later, on April 12th, 2016, a trash pull was conducted at Ron Hyde's Jacksonville Beach, Florida home. Two garbage bags were removed from a bin he had placed by the roadside. At the top of the first trash bag was a piece of the suspect's mail, as well as a red Solo cup that contained several used Zicam nasal swabs. After those items were sent off for DNA testing, they came back as a match to a second profile discovered on the bloody flannel. In addition, the strand of hair located on the orange bloody gloves found at the dumpster matched Ron Hyde's DNA.

21:01 Checkmate. On March 6th, 2017, officers surrounded Hyde's Jacksonville Beach home. He was taken into custody without further incident and investigators executed search warrants on his two Florida properties.

21:21 Pretty much all day we've been seeing people in hazmat suits. We saw guitar cases being brought out. There's a wheelbarrow tractor. They're bringing out evidence left and right. It looks like

21:33 utilizing heavy machinery, authorities started digging up Hyde's yard. And while recovering Fred's limbs and skull were among the top items of interest, there was no telling what he had back there. Had to be very careful about that to make sure they don't damage any remains that may be there to see if there remains of other people. There may be some other children who may have been involved uh who are associated with hide that may have been reported missing and never located. So, um it's going to take some time to do that to be very careful and check uh the backyard front yards of um all the properties that Hyde either owned or lived at. As far as the interior goes, Hyde's Jacksonville Beach home rivaled any dwelling shown on the television show Hoarders. You've seen that show, right? It's pretty horrifying.

22:26 The condition of Hyde's home was so putrid that the crime scene techs and authorities alike were forced to wear respirators while navigating through piles of garbage. Perhaps the most crucial discovery made was the impression of floral decals located in the bathtub. The outlines of dirt and grime definitively matched those of the decals found inside the gas station dumpster. over two decades prior, the ones that were, you know, near a body and stuff. The following day, Ron Hyde was brought in to the interrogation room, at which time investigators asked him about his, oh, I don't know, preferences.

23:13 Is that the term we're using these days for things like um porn? I know this a little bit embarrassing. I'm not going to go tell anybody, but do you watch pornography or anything like that? Do you use any websites?

23:28 Um, sure. Okay. Yes. All right. I don't need to know particular details of it. Well, just not child pornography that doesn't do it for me.

23:38 Um, what are some common search terms that you use? And again, I apologize. I'm not trying to embarrass you, but people tend to like or, you know, go towards certain certain types of adult pornography. Is there certain stuff that you search for? We're just trying to cross that gap and figure out, you know, why your names come up.

23:56 As much as No. What do I search for? Yeah. Hot cheerleaders or, you know, guys.

24:07 Chatterbait. Okay. I'm familiar with Chatterbait. Okay. Okay. FA. I don't know about a website called FAP. I know what the term FAP means,

24:16 right? I just don't recall. I mean, there may be a site by that, but just might be one I haven't seen yet, cuz there's only like what a million of them.

24:25 Sure. Sure. X Hamster. Ex Hamster. I know that one. Exos. Okay. So, if you're listening to this with your partner, as a lot of our fans do, this is the point in the story where you feain ignorance and pretend like you've never heard of these websites before. You have no idea what is that, Xamster? Never never even heard of that. I'll just go ahead and let you sit there in your awkwardness for a minute. Oh boy, do you and your partner have things to talk about. That's what we do here at Torton Scale, relationship counseling. Anyway, you might be asking yourself, why the hell is this relevant?

25:09 We'll get to that, but for now, investigators are trying to keep things light. So they ease into the conversation by asking Hyde about his relationship with the victim's family.

25:20 Travis J. Lasser and it's L A S T E R. Okay. And how do you know him? Is he through through work or doc contact or something else?

25:32 No, actually I met him years ago in church. Okay. Up in area. What church in? Well, that's where he's from. It was um Strength for Living Baptist who no longer exists.

25:51 Oh, dissolved. Right. Detectives are already aware of this man's entire background before they even walked into the room, including how he was once an employee of the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office. Get this. Back in the uh7s, Hyde worked as a mentor to teenage sex offenders within the Department of Corrections. Years later, Hyde earned his psychology degree from the University of Florida in 1981. He also took classes to become a nurse at one point, studying human anatomy. Hyde was familiar with joints, bone structure, and the placement of internal organs, leading investigators to believe that he may have some knowledge of surgical procedures or dismemberment.

26:42 Upon looking into his background further, authorities learned that Hyde also attempted to secure a $60,000 grant to open a counseling center for abused teenagers. That plan fell through. Thank God. He became a licensed youth counselor and mental health professional instead. A field he worked in for roughly 16 years. I've said it again and again. If you want to find out where the predators are, go where the prey is. During his interview, Hyde explained his work history a bit more in depth to detectives, starting with his quote unquote teaching methods.

27:24 For instance, using the assistance that were, you know, if I lost my dog or I lost something, will you help me find it?

27:31 Okay. Which the idea is to be able to lure the child away from the parents. Okay. too.

27:39 So, we're more in terms of like people who are abductors, like strangers that abduct children.

27:46 Could be. Yes. Okay. Well, I'm just trying I'm asking, you know, where your program is geared to cuz now I'm like kind of interested in it.

27:54 It it's it's essentially teaching the, you know, 15 different lures that sex offenders use,

28:00 okay, to the parents to help to keep the kids safe. and uh and help that help the parents recognize that and try to you know keep your kids away from people like those.

28:12 Well, yes, is simply to be aware of it and and actually during the presentation I actually demonstrate one of the doors to them for them.

28:21 I tell them ahead of time I'm going to demonstrate it and then halfway through the program I stop and make an excuse and say I'm sorry I left something in my room and I just stand up and stretch and I'll be right back.

28:34 Mhm. And I always go to the smallest child in the room and ask them if they'll help me.

28:41 And I bet they just about every time they say, "Oh, yeah, sure. One has never failed." Right.

28:47 That's why he's using them. Yeah. When you've watched enough of these interrogations, you start to see the strategy. At one point, the male detective deliberately exits the room in an attempt to see what else Hyde will offer up.

29:04 Again, I don't want to put you on the spot with anything, and I didn't know if it was uncomfortable to talk about in front of Jimmy, but what what's your sexual orientation? Do you What's your preference? Do you swing one way or the other? And again, I apologize. I'm not asking you to embarrass you. I wasn't sure if this was maybe uncomfortable in front of another fella.

29:22 Sure. So, I'm uh I mean predominantly heterosexual. Okay. You know, I it's my preference.

29:32 Maybe some curiosities into stuff or I'm a therapist. Okay. Okay. And so part of my training is in sex therapy.

29:47 Okay. Okay. And so I have to be somewhat comfortable being able to talk to men about men's issues,

29:57 definitely gay issues, uh, all of those kind of swinging issues or whatever it might be. I mean, if I'm if I'm I mean, because you having worked with the with the sex offender population, not only uh adult, but also adolescent

30:18 sex offenders. Okay. And there's a special special cus that you get in order to learn how to work with them so that you are able to talk with them such that it's, you know, it's not sexually stimulating, understand the child or to a teenager. And um and and so as a result of that, yeah, I I do try to, you know, keep an open mind and and um you know, desensitize myself, I guess you might say, too.

30:50 Okay. I mean, I'm not afraid of a penis. Certainly doesn't disturb me at all. Okay.

30:59 Anyway, back to what brought this dirty old man here in the first place. Hyde also volunteered at Crosswwater Community Church in Jacksonville. Are you surprised? He later became a youth pastor at Strength for Living Church, which is where he met Fred's older brother, Travis. It was around this time that Hyde started living a double life. The church's pastor, Dr. Ed Stalenecker, had previously been investigated for financial fraud and other shady activities. Stalenecker was a known drinker and allowed people to smoke in church while hosting a local gospel talk show with his wife on the side. Beware of false prophets, they say. Under the guise of helping low-income children through maritime programs, the church ran donation scams, misleading people into giving away boats and other high ticketed items for the local boy scouts.

32:00 In return, donors were supposed to receive tax credits. The last children were drawn to the church's music scene, and Hyde often picked them up for weekend services, building trust within the family. These outsiders, these strangers that kind of work their way into your home, into your family's home, into your children's lives, they know exactly what they're doing. It's a dance of polite manipulation and a lot of people are too stupid to notice it. Fred Ler was drawn to music and uh all the shiny instruments as young people often are. He particularly enjoyed playing in the church band.

32:47 Before long, Hyde was spending an abnormal amount of time with all six of the last children. He acted as their mentor due to the fact that Fred's mother and father weren't in the picture.

33:00 I mean, I'm I'm assuming the parents are maybe not great people if they were living with grandma and grandpa or were they in jail or was it something else?

33:10 No, something else. The the parents divorced and the father I don't know where he where he was. it was the mother with the with the children living there with the with the grandparents.

33:27 Investigators also learned that Hyde had been claiming Fred and his siblings as dependent on his tax filings for years. In fact, he continued to do so long after Fred was killed. While some of the children went off on their own, others lived with their grandmother. They essentially had free reign and as a result, Hyde was allowed to take Travis, Fred, and the others on routine trips and outings.

33:55 So, you met Travis at that church. Travis is a good guy, no problems, no issues. Known for a long time.

34:02 Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Good guy, no problems. Married, children, grandfather, their children.

34:12 Really? That's nice. How long have you known him, son? Since he was a kid or just after he got in the postcard.

34:20 Yeah. Or or was he your age? I don't. No, no, no. He was younger. Oh, okay. Travis eventually grew up and started a life of his own, which is when Hyde started to spend more time with his little brother, Fred. During the 12 months leading up to his disappearance, Fred was couch hopping between his grandmother's and sister's apartment before moving in with Hyde full-time. 4 years after Fred's murder, Hyde earned his master's degree in education in 1998 and later applied for a job as counselor for a so-called nudist organization he belonged to.

34:59 Do you have uh any any nudity stuff? any um nudist um naturist anything like that. Is that something you would look up or anything?

35:13 Yes. Okay. I am a member of the American Association of Need Recreation. Are you really?

35:18 I didn't know they had an association. Yes, sir. Okay. How long have you been doing that?

35:24 Yes. I will have to look that up now. Um it's a nationwide organization. Is it possible then maybe you came across pictures of kids like looking at their do they have a website?

35:37 And does have a website. Um and there are other websites that have naturist videos.

35:45 Mhm. Yes sir. And of course it does include children. Okay. New children. Okay.

35:51 They're not they're not there's no sexual Okay. Nobody's posed in a sexual position. Nobody. It's just children swimming or with their families or playing.

36:05 Okay. So, nothing like nothing sexualized about it. Just people basically recreation. They just happen to be new,

36:13 right? Naturist. That's a term that you might want to check for in your boyfriend or husband's search history. If you find it, your next call should probably be to a lawyer. And if I have to explain why, then maybe perhaps you should just never breed.

36:31 Yeah. Ran some database searches just to see what we come up with. And um I ran your name and I ran Travis's name just to see what came up.

36:41 I didn't see anything on Travis, but um do you know Fred Ler? His brother. Okay. his name came up and then it had your name in the report for him being missing,

36:56 right? Okay. Do you own 20 years ago? Okay. Yeah. So, there's not a whole lot to that report. They had in there that girl that filed the report said you picked him up from the house and then they I didn't see where anybody talked to you. Did anybody ever talk to you about that or do you remember

37:23 anybody at the police? Yeah. No. Okay. So, do you know about him being missing? Cuz apparently he's still listed as missing,

37:32 right? Okay. So, I guess first of all, do you know where to find him? No. Okay.

37:39 The torso was found roughly a month before Fred was first reported missing on July 1st, 1994. Fred's sister and brother visited with the local police and the sheriff, informing them that Fred was last seen several weeks before in early June. But for whatever reason, authorities at the local branch and the sheriff's office failed to document this initial report, and there was no actual paper trail indicating that Fred was missing at all. Early on, days after she last spoke with Fred, his sister called Hyde to ask him what he had done with her brother. According to her statements to police, Hyde laughed and told her that he had no idea where Fred was before hanging up the phone. Sometime later, Fred's family confronted Hyde again, at which time he offered a completely different story.

38:41 Hyde told Fred's family that he must have forgotten that he actually had been with Fred on June 4th, 1994, the day before his body was found at the gas station. During that conversation, Hyde told Fred's siblings that he'd come to his home that morning to help with a garage sale. Hyde's PayPal account ultimately verified profits made that day. But what wasn't adding up was when Hyde claimed he had given Fred a ride back to his grandmother's home later that evening and that he was reluctant to leave.

39:16 They say he didn't want to go home at all and um he grabbed the steering wheel and pulled the car over off the road to the side of the road.

39:27 Okay. and uh got out of the car and ran and actually actually ran across the the the road. It's a two-lane uh highway A1A there

39:41 and just got out of the car and ran across the street and was going down the other side actually going back to where we were had come from from Jacksonville.

39:52 Okay. According to this new and improved version of events, Fred exited the vehicle that fateful night, took off on foot, and was never seen again. Convenient. From that point forward, Hyde's explanation for Fred's disappearance shifted constantly, claiming he dropped him off near a bridge, at a park, back at his grandmother's, and who knows where else. There was a pickup truck kind of like a flatbed pickup truck that stopped.

40:26 Flatbed pickup, right? I mean, all I just could see the lights, you know, in the rearview mirror.

40:34 I saw I saw them stop and I assumed that they picked him up. Okay. I mean, I didn't actually see that. All I saw was the the the truck coming past me and about where he was, they they stopped and then and then went on and I didn't I didn't see him anymore, so I just assumed that they they was the last time I saw him.

40:57 Each new version only deepened the family's suspicions. Of course, they were left feeling helpless and seemingly without the help of law enforcement. There were people talking about seeing him in the area. Like there were a couple of other people that you know saw him at different places.

41:14 Okay. You mean after after that day, right? Yes. Do you remember who any of those people are? Maybe we could ask them about it like if they saw him or anything

41:23 or they know where he is. No, it's probably say that probably Dawn might on the police report.

41:31 Okay. Roughly 8 months after his disappearance, Fred's sister filed yet another missing person's report in February of 1995. This was the first time Fred Ler's name was entered into the NCIS database as a missing person. Sadly, it wasn't until she called the number on the cold case flyer in 2015 that investigators even looked at Ron Hyde as a suspect. 20 years after the murder. By this stage of the interview, Hyde is still unaware that the female detective strategically playing the role of a quote unquote good cop is actually an FBI agent. Roughly an hour and a half into his interrogation, she asks Hyde about the vehicle he was driving back in 1994.

42:23 What kind of car did you drive at that time? Camaro. Oh, nice. Uh red. No, red. Short red.

42:33 Okay. Well, that's that's my second favorite. So, that would be good, too. Yeah. Do

42:38 you still drive? I didn't see your car this morning. Do you still have like a nice muscle car?

42:41 No. You got out of the Yeah. For the commute, you need to You need to go economical.

42:48 Yeah. You still have the car? Oh, no. No, no, no. Sorry. That would be quite the collector nowadays.

42:55 It would be. What year was that? 87 87. Those are not bad. Actually, I like those.

43:04 Investigators already knew that the Camaro was registered to Hyde's father. News of the dark-colored vehicle witnessed backing up to the dumpster was never released to the public, and Ron Hyde had just inadvertedly placed himself at the crime scene. Oops. After a few more minutes of small talk, the male detective or quote unquote bad cop establishes that they're done playing games. He informs Hyde that they know much more than they've been letting on. This is the oh [ __ ] I'm in trouble moment of the interrogation.

43:43 So, I'm going to tell you this and I just want you to understand we've identified the body of Fred Ler. Oh

43:52 yes, sir. And so we do know where his body was found at going back to that time frame.

44:01 Okay. So again, that's one of the reasons I'm asking these questions cuz I'm trying to see, did you know anything about that or not?

44:09 Right. Where was he found? He was found over in Columbia over by Lake City. Wow.

44:17 Have you ever been over there before? Do you know where that is? Well, I know where Lake City is.

44:22 Okay. Well, along with this body, um, we found a lot of items of evidence as well. And those items of evidence have been tested over course many years, 23 years, and we were able to recover fingerprints and DNA from that evidence.

44:44 Now, I will tell you that we were able to get a cop a sample of your DNA. Mhm. several months ago and your DNA matches the DNA from that crime scene.

44:55 Mhm. Okay. So, what I'm here to tell you today is I know how Fred Paul Aer got in a dumpster in Lake City.

45:08 And I know who put him there. And I know that was that person was you. And I will tell you that I have plenty of evidence to back that up, including your car

45:21 backed up to that dumpster and all the DNA evidence, the fingerprint evidence, the stuff that was left in there that was thrown away with that body. I know all those things. So, the reason I'm here to talk to you about this today is I want to give you an opportunity to explain, you know, what really happened there. Now, you can try to deny these things if you choose to.

45:47 But evidence doesn't lie, and that's what I'm trying to tell you. As I'm not here today just to try to simply get to the point of what happened there as far as that goes. I know what happened there. What I don't know is why this happened. I don't know exactly how this happened as far as cuz I wasn't there in the room when it happened.

46:08 And so, those are some of the things I'm trying to get to today. and only give you an opportunity to explain those things to us.

46:16 One would think this is where the interview ends and Hyde asks for an attorney. But guess what? People are really dumb. So, of course, he doesn't. Instead, he digs his heels and denies any involvement in the murder of Fred Ler because he thinks he's smart enough to talk his way out of this. The last time I saw Fred was that evening. That's

46:45 The last time you saw Fred? I did not heard that. The last time you saw Fred was when you were pushing trying to push his body into the dumpster

46:52 and then it fell down and you dragged it behind the dumpster. No, sir. So I No,

47:00 but that's what I'm telling you is that all the evidence says that all the evidence points at you. You you understand that?

47:08 There's evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy, but that don't make it.

47:13 We're not talking about the Kennedy assassination. We're talking about you putting a 16-year-old boy in a dumpster.

47:19 No, sir. That wasn't me. So, but it was a broken clock is right at least twice a day, right? I mean, the Kennedy assassination. Let's just not get into it. Anyway, despite his irrelevant theories about Kennedy, the evidence was stacked against him. And the fact becomes even more clear when authorities reveal that they know about his disturbing secret involving Fred's brother.

47:46 But yeah, I've talked to Travis in death. I know about things that happened between you and Travis when he was a young boy.

47:54 Okay. You know what I'm talking about there, don't you? Tell me what what are you referring to?

48:00 See, you keep playing this game where you tell me what you're referring to. But you know what I'm talking about. The inappropriate things that happened with him when he was a young boy. Let's put it that way. Sexual acts that happened with him when he was under the age of 18.

48:16 Why would Travis lie to me about that? I don't know. I'm at a loss also. I don't know.

48:24 Mhm. Surely in fear of his own life, it took Fred's brother Travis nearly two decades to come forward and reveal that Hyde molested him when he was young. But Travis hadn't been his only victim.

48:40 He told me about the other boy that you were molesting before he met you at the church at Strength for Living. According to Travis's statements to police, Hyde had been grooming and praying upon young boys from the church for years, using his role as a counselor to conceal his vile exploits. Travis told investigators to believe Hyde killed his brother out of fear of finally being exposed. So again, if this is something where Fred was blackmailing you, Fred didn't reveal these secrets and stuff like that,

49:18 I can understand that. That makes some sense. Mhm. But just telling me none of this happened. I mean, I don't get it, man. This nobody's going to nobody reasonable is going to believe that story.

49:31 And that's what I'm trying to tell you, of course. So again, I just want you to tell me, you know, what happened. If the kid upset you, if the kid blackmailed you, if he did something to you, just tell me. Be honest with me. Tell me where I can find the rest of him so I can give him back to his family. That's what I'm trying to do.

49:52 I I don't know, officer. Okay. I have no idea. It was a surprise to me to find that he was dead. In early June of 1994, A mutilated torso was found discarded behind a gas station in Lake City, Florida. The victim's head and limbs had been meticulously removed, leaving police with no way to identify the body. For years, the case was stuck in limbo as investigators hit one dead end after another. Then in 2015, Fred Lers's family recognized items shown on a John Doe flyer and alerted authorities, suspecting it might be their missing relative. As detectives re-examined old evidence using new DNA technology, they were eventually led to Ron Hyde, a 61-year-old youth pastor and trusted figure in the community.

51:18 After matching DNA from the 1994 dumpster, two items recovered that were left outside of Hyde's home. Victims of Hyde started coming forward, alleging that he had sexually abused them as kids. In 2017, 20 plus years after Fred Ler was murdered, authorities finally had enough to take the perverted old man into custody. The following day, Hyde was brought in for a lengthy interrogation where his story unraveled piece by piece.

51:53 And again, you can try to say, "Oh, it wasn't me." But I've got everything that says it was. We have your DNA. We have all this evidence leaking you to the scene. And does this sound reasonable to you? I mean, I'm I'm trying to give you my perspective on this. I I understand what you're saying, but

52:13 Yeah. I heard that boy. Hyde continued to deny allegations throughout his interrogation. After leaving him to ponder over whether or not to take a polygraph, he eventually invoked his right to speak with an attorney. Following a nearly 6-hour interview, Ron Hyde was asked to stand, placed into handcuffs, and arrested.

52:39 I'll let you know that currently you are under arrest. Do me a favor. Would you like me to explain why you're under arrest?

52:45 Yes, sir. Okay. You have a murder warrant for your arrest right now. In the days that followed, authorities used billboards to call upon the public, pleading for anyone with information about the nearly 23-year-old cold case to come forward. To their surprise, tips came flooding into the FBI hotline. Former co-workers of Hyde reported that he'd openly spoken about sleeping in bed with underage boys wearing only his underwear. Other witnesses said Hyde admitted to visiting a local golf course to meet young men. Hyde also allegedly visited his local YMCA not to work out but solely to shower nude while looking at boys in the locker room. You know that song, right? YMCA.

53:34 You know the uh cultural significance of it, right? You know what they're uh doing there at the state funded facility. Not sure why some moms like to side with the gays rather than their own children. Oh, and before you send in that angry email standing for a child molester. Why don't you think about it a little bit? Also, I don't give a [ __ ] so keep it to yourself. Yeah. Anyway, following Hyde's arrest, several former juvenile inmates came forward. alleging that Hyde sexually abused them in his office during his tenure with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Department. It is indeed fun to stay at the YMCA, I hear.

54:15 Anyway, before the murder of Fred Ler, Hyde had no prior criminal history, but he was written up for sexual harassment in 1998 for making inappropriate comments to a female coworker. In 2013, Hyde's name also popped up in a three-year international child pornography investigation out of Toronto called Project Spade. In October 2010, undercover online officers with the child exploitation section of the Toronto Police Service made contact with a male on the internet who was sharing very graphic images of young children being sexually abused. Through investigations, the officers were able to trace the internet connection to a male living in Toronto. The investigation revealed that this individual was running an exploitation movie production and distribution company from an address within the city of Toronto.

55:08 The investigation resulted in the rescue of nearly 400 children and the arrest of 348 adults worldwide. The Toronto-based company run by a man named Brian Wei distributed child exploitation videos through a website called avilms.com. I know you're probably going to check your browser history when you get home. Make sure your partner isn't looking at that website. And if he is, maybe dial 911 immediately, especially if your partner's on Reddit a lot. Oh boy, am I going to get a lot of emails. The operation involved extensive cooperation with the US Postal Inspection Service and led to the seizure of 45 terabytes of illegal material. Those arrested included teachers, medical professionals, clergy, and law enforcement personnel.

56:05 Think about that for a second. It's almost like every group of people assigned to protect children has been infected by pedophilia. Ron Hyde's name was once on that long list of suspects, but at the time, authorities lacked enough evidence to make an arrest. Here's what Hyde had to say about Asov Films when it was brought up during his interrogation.

56:32 Does that look familiar? Mhm. Okay. What is that? A films. Okay. So, you're familiar with Asol Films, right? It's a newest.

56:45 Okay. Signed. Okay. Is it okay? Is it still active now? Yeah. Do you know why it's not active?

56:55 I do. Uhoh. Cuz some of these videos were considered child pornography. Okay. Really?

57:08 Okay. This may be why you're popping up in our database. Maybe. Okay. Okay. Uh-oh. Is right. During the search of his home, authorities located six writable discs. On them was a vast collection of child pornography buried among heaps of trash. Investigators also recovered a digital camera. Apparently, when Hyde wasn't busy looking at children being sexually abused, he was out taking less vulgar photos, documenting a life of leisure outside of his filthy Jacksonville Beach residence, if you can call it that. The pictures showed him smiling at baseball games, flipping burgers at cookouts, hitting up a racetrack, and so much more. I mean, he really lived a full life, this guy. It's a bitter pill to swallow knowing that Fred's family was searching for answers while Hyde was out enjoying the simple pleasures of life as if nothing ever happened. And while DNA advancements finally brought him to

58:15 justice, it's impossible not to question why it took law enforcement so long to zero in on him. All of the signs were obviously there. A suspicious connection, shifting alibis, and a dark past hiding in plain sight. So, how is this man able to evade justice for decades? Quite frankly, what the [ __ ] is wrong with us that we didn't see it? While that question remained unanswered, Hyde was finally charged with first-degree murder, to which he entered a plea of not guilty. Following the FBI raid of his Jacksonville Beach property, the home was condemned, boarded up, and demolished less than a month after his arrest.

59:02 Roughly 5 years later, Ron Hyde would finally see his day in court. A long delayed Jacksonville trial is underway for a man charged with murdering and dismembering a 16-year-old boy back in 1994. We want to warn you, the details are graphic. Ronnie Hyde was arrested in the death of Fred Lasser after the teen's body was identified through modern science in 2016. Prosecutors say there is DNA and other evidence that links Hyde to the murder, but the defense contends there is nothing that proves Hyde killed Ler. In late March of 2022, the long-awaited murder trial of Ron Hyde finally took place. Drawing a curtain back on a mystery that had haunted investigators and Fred Ler's family for decades, the prosecution presented a damning case against Hyde. Using new DNA evidence that directly linked him to the dismembered remains found behind the BP gas station in Lake City back in 1994.

1:00:06 The bloodstained flannel shirt found near the torso contained both Fred's and Hyde's DNA. The state's key witness who described seeing Hyde's dark-colored Camaro the morning of the discovery took the stand as well. In addition, the state presented entries from a journal found in Hyde's Jacksonville Beach home written in 2014. He expressed regret and penned a vague apologies directed at both Travis and Fred Ler. I feel depressed, lonely. I'm struggling to stay alive. I've been thinking about people from whom I need forgiveness.

1:00:47 David D, Jasmine, and Ginger for being a bad father. Joey, Christian, Travis, and Fred. Fred's name was the only one underlined in Hyde's journal entry. Joey and David are the two others who came forward alleging sexual abuse at the hands of Ron Hyde when they were young boys. According to court documents, Hyde allegedly carried out acts of sexual abuse with the aforementioned children while using a video camcorder. These incidents are believed to have occurred around the same time that Hyde was abusing Fred Ler. Adding to the disturbing narrative were Hyde's personal Facebook posts made in the years following Fred's disappearance.

1:01:34 On social media, he presented himself as a staunch advocate for ending child abuse and supporting suicide prevention. A jarring contradiction, of course, when juxtaposed with the accusations now leveled against them. Fred's sister took the stand and delivered a powerful testimony, recounting her memories of Hyde's Jacksonville Beach home. She vividly recalled seeing the same type of knives and non-slip bathtub decals found at the crime scene. The forensic anthropologist testified about the knives as well, where she described the multiple blades used during the dismemberment. There were 25 sharp force trauma um impacts with a total of 71 cut marks.

1:02:23 Hyde's lawyers argued that any traces of Fred's DNA found at the crime scene were easily explainable given that Fred had lived with Hyde for a year before his disappearance. They attempted to cast doubt on the connection between the evidence and the murder itself, suggesting that the prosecution's case was built on circumstantial links rather than direct proof. They painted Hyde as a family friend who had simply become entangled in the tragic coincidence, not the cold-blooded killer the prosecution claimed he was.

1:03:00 The most impactful moment at trial came during Travis Last year's testimony. He spoke of the trust his family placed in Hyde and the deep betrayal they felt once the truth slowly started to surface. We lost a future with our brother. We lost a brother that we don't get to call on the weekends and ask, "Hey, did you see the ball game?" And and I'm asking directly, Mr. Lester, do you regret not being there for your brother?

1:03:35 It is probably the biggest regret I ever have in my life. I very much so. In a ballsy move by the defense, Hyde also took the stand. The 65-year-old smirked during the questioning and recounted one of the many stories he'd told before regarding the last time he saw Fred alive. I got up to the uh about the second bridge that or actually before the second bridge or the second concrete bridge. It's just a little concrete bridge covering creek. Uh he uh he grabbed the wheeled car and pulled over the side and got out.

1:04:20 Didn't say anything. Did he say anything? No. He said where he was going. Not to grandma's house.

1:04:30 Fred Ler's head and limbs were never found. The state alleged that the body of water Hyde mentioned in his testimony may have been where he discarded the remains. The creek he described as part of Florida's inter coastal waterway, which flows into the Atlantic Ocean. Though it's never been proven, it's possible that some of Fred's body parts may have ended up in the sea before Hyde drove his torso to the dumpster a short distance away. During the cross-examination, the defendant continued to proclaim his innocence regarding both the murder and dismemberment of 16-year-old Fred Ler.

1:05:11 That Fred Ler was over there. We have a very very short amount of time that Fred Ler could have been murdered, dismembered, driven out of town and quits. Correct.

1:05:24 Sure. Do you feel responsible for the death of Fred Ler? No, sir. I don't I wasn't responsible for the death of Fred Ler. I never heard that yet. Following a 4-day trial, the jury deliberated for only a few hours before returning with their unanimous verdict.

1:05:44 We the jury find the defendant guilty of first-degree murder. Immediately following his murder conviction, Hyde asked to be sentenced right away. The judge agreed. He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, ending multiple decades of illusion, deception, and sexual abuse. Hyde's true victim count may never be known, and his ability to hide behind the guise of a community leader serves as a chilling reminder that not only are the worst monsters real, but they're often times the ones we least suspect.

1:06:36 It's a real gut punch to think that someone you trust with your children could be there intentionally to harm them. Hyde used his status in the church to disguise his disgusting sexual interest in children. He flew under law enforcement's radar for roughly 23 years. As far as his, let's call it media collection. It's possible that he filmed his sexual exploits with children and sold these recordings for a profit. It's possible and more than likely that that's what his involvement was with the child porn sting project spade.

1:07:18 Following his sentencing for the murder of Fred Ler, Ron Hyde was charged with 25 additional counts related to child porn. One major revelation that came from his separate trial was Hyde's purchase of child porn videos from 2008 to 2010 where he spent a total of $745. In January of 2023, he pleaded guilty to three counts and was subsequently provided an additional 7 years in prison to run concurrently with his life sentence. Members of the various churches Ron Hyde was affiliated with have either declined to comment on this case or claimed to have no knowledge of sexual abuse having ever occurred prior to his arrest.

1:08:08 Sure, we all believe that. No reason not to, right? Despite authorities digging up Hyde's backyard in search of other victims, no additional human remains were ever found. But let's not breathe a sigh of relief just yet. Given his predatory history, it's hard not to wonder if Fred Ler was Hyde's only victim. Usually, there's not just one. As for the church he called home, their silence over the years speaks volumes. The strength for living church with its shady financial dealings and questionable leadership wasn't exactly a beacon of transparency.

1:08:51 It's unclear if they were too busy running their own cons to notice or simply chose to look the other way as we often do when we see something uncomfortable. Secrets though have a way of festering and becoming infected, eventually killing the host. So hopefully you'll apply some antiseptic and clean your wounds, you know, and you know, next time the choices between protecting children or your precious institution, maybe then you'll pick the right one.

1:09:49 for the boomers in the house. This style of music is called vapor wave. It's uh reminiscent of the mid80s, a time that I'm sure a lot of our listeners remember cuz you're all old. That's a great way to get listeners calling old. What are you doing, Mike?

1:10:36 Heat. Heat. Heat up here. Heat up here.

Questions about this episode

What is "Episode 297" about?

The content discusses the dark themes and violence of the show "Sword and Scale," while highlighting a chilling incident from June 5, 1994, involving a woman at a gas station in Lake City, Florida, whose car broke down. The narrative reflects on the unsettling nature of real-life crime and the show's irreverent approach to these topics, alongside promotional details for their television project…

What is mentioned in this Sword and Scale episode?

89 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Fred Ler, Jesse Hyde, Camaro, Lake City, Florida, Sword and Scale, NCIS database. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Episode 297"?

The episode runs 1 h 12 min; the transcript is about 9,827 words in 170 timestamped sections.

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