Transcript

Episode 338

From Sword and Scale · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 8 min · 9,900 words · 178 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Episode 338", an episode of Sword and Scale published February 8, 2026 (1 h 8 min, about 9,900 words). It mentions 8 people, works and ideas, including Diane Madison, Jaylen Plumber, Michael Madison, Tania Plameumber, Ohio.

What this episode is about

This content explores a true crime narrative set in East Cleveland during the summer solstice of 2019, emphasizing the stark contrasts of its neighborhoods while grappling with themes of masculinity and societal expectations amid unsettling events. The narrative suggests a deeper examination of the human experience, hinting at darkness underlying seemingly ordinary surroundings.

Key takeaways

  • In true crime, the monsters often dress in familiar faces, making horror rather mundane.
  • Cleveland's most unromantic streets teach kids survival skills: knowing how to pronounce your address is vital.
  • When chaos strikes, would you open your door to bloodied kids or keep the horror at bay?
  • The line between innocence and tragedy blurs when children become victims in the most unexpected places.
  • True crime’s allure lies in our fascination with darkness; it reveals both humanity and monstrosity in unsettlingly close proximity.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Ohio
  2. – 20:00: Jaylen Plumber, Diane Madison, Ohio
  3. – 30:00: Diane Madison, Michael Madison, Tania Plameumber, Jaylen Plumber
  4. – 40:00: Diane Madison, Michael Madison, Charerela Terry
  5. – 1:00:00: Diane Madison, Michael Madison, Charerela Terry, Angela Deskkins
  6. – 1:07:57: Diane Madison, Michael Madison, Tania Plameumber, Angela Deskkins

Notable quotes from "Episode 338"

  • They called from Chickasaw Avenue where their grandmother Diane Madison lived.
    about Diane Madison · at
  • Officers in because the killer was still there in the bathroom. The water was running. Jaylen Plumber was fully clothed, standing under the shower. The blood from his own knife wounds swirled into the drain.
    about Jaylen Plumber · at
  • Jaylen offered only a chilling explanation. The mental health care system failed me, so I tried to kill my family. Signs of mental illness seemed obvious when Jallen was taken to the hospital and questioned. Nurses bandaged.
    about Ohio · at
  • Up in that same house on Chickasaw Avenue. As an adult, he returned to raise a family there with his girlfriend, Tania Plameumber. They had two children, including a disabled son.
    about Tania Plameumber · at
  • Michael wasn't exactly a copycat, but his crimes bore chilling similarities to those of another Cleveland serial killer he reportedly admired. Anthony Soell, infamously known as the Cleveland.
    about Michael Madison · at
  • Plans. And for a brief, fateful moment, each of them crossed paths with Michael Madison. The first body found was 18-year-old Charelda Terry. She had just graduated from high…
    about Charerela Terry · at
  • The first body in a musty basement of an abandoned house near Michael's apartment. Angela was a quiet woman with a soft voice trying to piece her life back together. She had…
    about Angela Deskkins · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Diane Madison — Person · Primary victim (referenced subject) · 17 mentions · first at
    Grandmother killed in the 2019 stabbing; also mother of serial killer Michael Madison, linking the episode’s two timelines (2013 and 2019).
  • Jaylen Plumber — Person · Primary perpetrator (referenced subject) · 4 mentions · first at
    Central figure in the 2019 East Cleveland stabbing; described as the 18-year-old grandson/cousin who attacked family members and killed Diane Madison.
  • Michael Madison — Person · Referenced perpetrator (serial killer case subject) · 8 mentions · first at
    Diane Madison’s son; convicted East Cleveland serial killer whose 2013 murders form the episode’s backstory and are framed as part of a family legacy of violence.
  • Tania Plameumber — Person · Referenced family member / mother (context witness) · 3 mentions · first at
    Named as Jaylen’s mother and Michael Madison’s girlfriend; provides narrative about Jaylen’s behavioral changes and is tied to the household structure.
  • Charerela Terry — Person · Referenced victim (2013 case) · 2 mentions · first at
    Identified as the first body found connected to Michael Madison; her death anchors the 2013 investigation described in the episode.
  • Angela Deskkins — Person · Referenced victim (2013 case) · 2 mentions · first at
    One of Michael Madison’s victims; described as 38 and found in an abandoned house basement near his apartment.
  • Shhatisha Sheiley — Person · Referenced victim (2013 case) · 1 mention · first at
    One of Michael Madison’s victims; mentioned as a 28-year-old mother whose body was found near the garage behind his apartment.
    Shhatisha had bruises on her face and her clothing had liature marks. Last to be found was 38-year-old Angela Deskkins. She was discovered days after the first body in a musty basement of an.

Places & events

  • Ohio — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    The state where Cleveland is located, mentioned as the broader geographical context for the events discussed.

Full transcript with timestamps

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

A man's manhood should never be compromised when it comes to a female who's never been a man.

Come take a load off, put your feet up, and listen to some murder. What a stupid thing to say. This is season 13, episode 338 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real.

If you're a fan of true crime, I invite you to check out our brand new YouTube channel where you could subscribe the opposite way you can on our website. See, on our website, you can subscribe for 10 bucks for audio and then add video for another 10 bucks on top of that. On YouTube, you can start with video and add audio. So, you know, take your pick. This is just going to complicate things, isn't it? Oh well, [ __ ] my life.

It's just after midnight in 2019 during the summer solstice, the longest day of the year. This isn't some uh mumbo jumbo new age crap. It's when the sun is furthest from the equator. And it's a time when some say the veil between this dimension and the others is the thinnest. Okay, so maybe there is a little quote unquote new age wisdom. The most important point though is that it's Ohio, the state that's becoming quite popular around here for some reason. So it's June 21st in East Cleveland. Believe it or not, there are posh areas in Cleveland so that some of you savages can pretend to be people. This isn't one of them. It's not a picturesque skyline by the lake or the downtown area lit up with nightife. It's Colinwood, a workingass neighborhood that feels like it's part of a bygone era, part of the rust belt. The houses are small and modest, but nice enough, and the lawns are mowed. There's just enough space in

the backyard for a barbecue. Ah, Americana. A small white Cape Cod style home faces a narrow street called Chickasaw Avenue. It's a mild but humid evening. No wind is blowing, and it's dark. Windows stay open in most homes and the people inside are asleep, the fans humming in the background. But on this street, as June 21st turns to the 22nd, something bad is happening.

911 dispatchers do need police, fire, EMS. Hello. We just got stabbed. We're taking our ass.

I'm sorry. I said we just got stabbed. who just got stabbed. The call almost sounded like a hoax. The child calling in was so calm and said she lived on Chicken Saw Avenue, but this was no joke.

What's your address where you are? Chicken Avenue. What? What's the address? The complete address?

We don't know. You're on what street? Chicken just about to pass out. Are you a Uclid?

No, please in Ohio. You may not have caught it, but the little girl said she was about to pass out. She was trying her hardest to stay alert and get the street names right. In this part of Cleveland, the streets seem to have Native American names.

And you're on Chickasaw. Yeah. Do you know another street nearby? Um, no. Amazing sight blonde turkey ass.

Who? You're on turkey. What? Turkey. What she was trying to say was Cherokee. Note to parents, make sure that your kids know where they live and how to pronounce the street names. That's a small safety tip that rivals all of the canned goods and toilet paper you hoard in your Cape Cod summer home. Yeah, I know my audience. Okay. Who got stabbed honey?

Me and my cousin. By who? Our cousin. Okay. I'mma get you over to EMS. Okay. Okay. Don't hang up. How old are you?

Okay. Okay. Don't hang up. Okay. Okay. The dispatch operator told the EMS responder she had a 10-year-old who had a knife wound. It was hard to tell if his response was disbelief or mere frustration. I mean, this is Cleveland. Sadly, it's probably not the first time a kid called in about being stabbed. This place truly is a [ __ ] hole.

Okay. Are you killed there, honey? Yeah, I'm at the park out. Okay. Okay. She doesn't know where she's at. She says she's on a street called Chickaw.

The corner. What? She It's not a corner. She just says she's on a street called

Chickaw. She said her and her cousin got stabbed. Okay. Was her cousin older than her?

Your cousin, honey. By this time, the polite little girl who was stabbed and trying not to pass out was getting frustrated. You can hear her in the background, desperately pleading for help. She was probably wondering when the questions would stop and an ambulance would arrive. The victims were two 10-year-old cousins who managed to escape outside. They were making their way to a neighbor's house, but all the time struggling just to stay alive. Thank God some kind people in the next street over were still up and looking out their window when they heard crying.

Cleveland 911. I got a little girl outside. What's What's your address? My address is 1961 Cherokee. She's bleeding really bad. She He She's coming in my house, so please hurry. Somebody shut the door.

Why you got the door open? Imagine that. You're minding your own business and suddenly you hear little kids crying outside. You're like, "What's that?" You get up to see two blood soaked girls staggering towards your house. These days, would you even let them in? I mean, be honest. That's some The Shining [ __ ] right there. Some of you would probably slam the door shut. No doubt.

She knocked on my door and said that she stabbed their bleeding to death. All their clothes is full of blood.

Who's bleeding to death? The two little girls. Okay. Are you And the little girls can barely talk. Yes.

Okay. So, I'm going to ask you two more questions so that I can tell you what to do. These questions are going to help me help them. Okay. How old are they?

Okay. They look like they're about maybe uh 12, 11, 12 years old. Okay. 13 at the most. And are they awake?

Yeah, they're awake, but they're covered in blood. Okay. And not Listen carefully. I want to tell you how to stop the bleeding. Listen carefully to make sure we do it correct. Okay.

Sounds like a plan, right? But what do you do if you can't tell where the blood's coming from?

So, I need you to get a stab all over. Okay. It's all over. Okay. Is the burger still nearby? The one that stabbed him?

Yeah. No. No. No. Okay. Okay. And is there any serious bleeding? Yes, it's serious bleeding.

Okay. Are they completely alert? Are they going out of it unconscious? Yes. They're the people slurred. Yes.

Okay. I'm giving this information to the dispatch. They're in line. They'll hang up. Okay. And you said there is more than one wound, correct?

Yes. They're all over. They got blood and they're laying in my house in my foyer and they're bleeding.

Okay. Help is on the way. It always seems to take forever for an ambulance to arrive. And the questions from 911 operators are never ending. The truth is that the response time varies obviously depending on where you live. But in urban areas, the average time is only about 5 to 8 minutes, but those few minutes can feel like forever.

Okay. All right. Shut the door. Is she okay? Maggie, both of you okay? The random are talking. How long is it going to take them to get here?

They're coming right now. The fire department and the paramedics. And they're on their way.

Yes, they're on the way. The excitement was almost too much for this lady. She started having her own issues.

I got asthma and my breathing is getting heavy. Okay. Do you have a um inhaler that you can take?

Yes. Yes. I'm about to need it. Okay. Take your inhaler. Despite her own problems, this woman wasn't going to let two little girls slip into unconsciousness. I mean, if I needed somebody to bring me back, I'd want this lady. She goes hard.

Hey, wake up, baby. Hey, wake up, baby. As the woman in the house is on the phone with 911, her boyfriend comes back. He sees the kids bleeding and crying. You're

wrong, babe. Who stabbed you? Husband, please help me. Come on. Hello. Hello. Give him the phone, honey.

Say what? Hello. Can you tell us where you guys are? We are right here on Cherokee. 1 19612 Cherokee on the corn. These kids have been stabbed up.

Okay. Give me Give me that address again. 1 19612 Cherokee. Who am I speaking to? This is EMS and police.

Hurry up, please. These these girls have been stabbed bad. Come back here, baby. Huh?

Ain't nobody going to mess with y'all. Oh my goodness. Come on. Who are you looking for right now?

Oh my goodness. Come on, baby. Come on. Get up. The little girls confirmed that it was a cousin who stabbed them and she's afraid he'll find them. Not when this guy's around. I mean, would you [ __ ] with him? I wouldn't. [clears throat] Weekly. She tells him she can't get up.

Open that door. This girl been stabbed up bad. Okay. That's the address where they're going to be the 19612.

Yes. Yes. 1961 tip. Hurry up. Oh my [ __ ] goodness. Okay. Are you guys responding, Pety?

Yeah. show up. Hey, y'all sit right there. Oh my [ __ ] goodness. This girl is stabbed up real bad.

Does she know where the person went who stabbed her? Say what? Did she know where the person who stabbed her?

Where the person go that stabbed? They said they looking for him. Shut up. Let me do this.

She said the person is looking for him. She said, "Who has the person?" They said they looking for them. Oh boy. These gentlemen seem ready to carry out their own investigation. But police wanted a name. The little girls were scared and going in and out of awareness. It was hard to get the needed information and confusion was getting in the way.

They don't know. Do y'all know what staff are like that? my other brother, sir.

Yeah. Are both of them stabbed? Yeah. When you think somebody, sir, we got people on the way. I'm trying to get information from you. So, it's

stabbed up. These kids are stabbed up bad. They two little girls. Oh, [ __ ] Man, I found this dude. Who is this guy?

I got EMS already talking to them. They don't need to be trying. Okay. I got Who is inside of Sab? I got two 10 year old staff.

Sorry, fool. Jayen Plumber. It was 18-year-old Jaylen Plameumber, their cousin, who was supposed to be staying with an aunt in a different part of the neighborhood, but decided to go on a killing spree at his grandma's house instead. And the grandma was still back at the house.

Man, y'all please hurry up. Send somebody for these kids. He killed your grandmother.

Oh my Oh my god. Please hurry up. So much was going on. As the couple in the house learned more information, the panic escalated. Some people are good in crisis and some aren't.

Do they know where they live at? Don't tell me what to do. You go and do what you should do. What you say?

Do they know where they live at? Like an address? Do I know where they live at? Do they know us our address?

They called from Chickasaw Avenue where their grandmother Diane Madison lived. The two cousins escaped but left their grandmother behind. Then there was the cousin Jallen who caused the bloodbath. No one knew his whereabouts yet, but he'd better hope he didn't cross paths with his neighbor.

Baby, just please calm down, man. I find this [ __ ] Will you quit talking to me, fam? Stop talking to me, please. I'm not telling [ __ ] I wish this [ __ ] would bring his ass over here. Oh my [ __ ] goodness.

Okay, we should have police pulling up, sir. Do you see them outside? Oh my [ __ ] goodness. Oh my [ __ ] goodness. Yeah, they pulling up right now.

In the immortal words of this Ohioan, oh my [ __ ] goodness. This was Cleveland. But even our seasoned veteran here hadn't seen anything like this before. You could tell this was some [ __ ] up [ __ ] that would stick with them. After talking with the two little girls and the couple taking care of them, officers realized they needed to go to the crime scene as soon as possible while the girls were on their way to the hospital. What they didn't know yet was that there was still another child in that house on Chickasaw.

Justin Madison, a 12-year-old boy with autism. This was Jaylen's brother. And Jaylen was still in that house, too.

So, this is the house. Yeah. Okay. So, we you guys have a crime scene log or anything?

Yeah. Nate's got I'll just tell you guys what happened. I also got the address. We came over here. His little brother has like a mental disability. He came up to that window.

This bedroom right here with those windows. Uhhuh. She's laying in the souththeast corner of the room behind the door face on.

Justin was terrified and didn't completely understand what was going on. His sister had fled the scene with her cousin. Well, more like escaped. Justin was trapped in an upstairs bedroom and didn't even know he was injured. The police were about to wade into a blood soaked house, but first needed to convince her grandson Justin to unlock the door and come outside. Come here.

Open the window. Hey, what's your name, my man? What's that? Over there. My My brother is in the My brother now.

Where's your brother? He's in the bathroom. Okay. What? Hey, I'm inside the house.

Hey, I'm going to cover the back. Justin was risking his life letting the officers in because the killer was still there in the bathroom. The water was running. Jaylen Plumber was fully clothed, standing under the shower. The blood from his own knife wounds swirled into the drain.

Stay right, my man. You're okay. You're okay. Why don't you What's that? You get my clothes for me. I want I I can't.

Are Are you okay, though? Yeah. Wait. My brother My brother didn't there. Please. My brother DID THIS. OKAY.

PLEASE TELL ME THIS. You're fine. You're fine. How old are you, my man? 10. 12 years old.

12 years old. Yes. I feel my mom is my mom and I My mom and I at that house. My

Where's your mom at? She at work? Yes. This was a mad house. When asked for his mother's name, he was able to give it to the officer, but he couldn't spell it, saying that she never told him how.

Okay. Well, we we'll call her. Okay. You're okay, though. You're not hurt, right? You're not bleeding at all?

Oh, you who else is in his home? You got stabbed, huh? Where is he? Wait, I got stabbed.

Yeah, you got you got some blood. What's your name? I got lucky. What? Yeah. When I saw the knife in there.

You did? Where do you think the knife's at? I I And I clean it up. You cleaned it up?

Yeah. It's in the sink. It's in the sink. It's in the sink right now. It's in the sink. Hey, he's saying the knife's in the sink. This guy, this

victim. Yeah, he's got a little laceration to the back right now. The discovery of the murder weapon was good news and bad news. Good news that this unlikely and lucky victim found it, but possibly bad news that he cleaned it up.

What's going to happen to me now? You're you're going to get checked out by EMS cuz you're you got stabbed. I'm going to try getting a hold of your mom for you. Okay. Justin naturally had a lot of questions about himself, his grandma Diane, and his brother, who had been led away in handcuffs.

Uh, what happened to my brother now? We got him. He's not going to hurt anyone.

Is my girl going to be okay? Yeah, they're working on it right now. They're helping her.

I'll get your dad, you saw a You saw a little dog. A little dog? I did not. I did not go in the house. I saw you outside. I came and grabbed you.

What? Justin didn't know was that his grandmother died almost immediately after being stabbed by his brother. In her bedroom, they found Diane Madison dead of multiple stab wounds, including one that completely severed her corroted artery. And the little dog he was referring to was sitting on the bed in the same spot where he'd been sleeping peacefully next to his owner. Now, with a look of bewilderment, the dog wasn't alone. Almost everyone who knew Jaylen Plumber was bewildered. No one could yet explain why a collegebound teenager, quiet, smart, and planning to study pharmarmacology, had suddenly turned into a violent killer.

But there were cracks long before that night. This wasn't just one terrible night. It was the unveiling of a legacy that had been building long before Jalen had ever picked up a knife. On June 22nd, 2019, in East Cleveland South Colinwood neighborhood, police responded to a bloody scene on Chickasaw Avenue. Two 10-year-old girls escaped their home, reporting they'd been stabbed in their sleep. When officers got to the house, they found a third victim, a 12-year-old autistic boy, who confirmed that his brother was the killer. 18-year-old Jaylen Plameumber was in the shower rinsing off blood after stabbing the entire household. In a bedroom, his grandmother, Diane Madison, lay dead from multiple stab wounds, and her little dog also laid nearby.

Jaylen offered only a chilling explanation. The mental health care system failed me, so I tried to kill my family. Signs of mental illness seemed obvious when Jallen was taken to the hospital and questioned. Nurses bandaged the deep cuts on his hands, but it was as if his voice was bound just as tightly. His muffled words barely escaped. He spoke in vague, detached terms, referring to his siblings as child number one and child number two. He claimed he didn't know the names of his mother and grandmother, and said he just called them mommy or grandma. His mother, Tania Plameumber, would later tell detectives that Jallen had no official diagnosis, but his behavior had drastically changed between the ages of 12 and 15. He'd been drinking, smoking, shutting down, and fixating on dark things.

She had just decided to get him into therapy. But here's what Jallen's mother didn't want to say. She remembered that his behavior had started to change around the time of another arrest. Police already knew the name that would leave her lips. This was a man from the same city, a serial killer that had haunted Cleveland and was arrested and convicted during Jallen's crucial adolescent years. It seemed possible this disturbed Jallen so much that he became fascinated with killing and ultimately exploded in a murderous fit that night, leaving his grandmother dead.

Diane was a loving, kind person, and I think sometimes that gets lost. Almost all of us who worked with her remained friends with her afterward. That's the kind of person she was. She was the kind of person others felt comfortable with because they knew she'd been through it. They knew she was the first to sympathize. She was always open to hearing about everybody's hard times because God knows she'd had enough of her own.

And I just want them to remember her smile and and remember how much uh laughter and joy she brought to people's lives. She was someone who was compassionate, who cared about her family, who cared about her grandkids, who cared about her kids even when they couldn't reciprocate. Maybe

Diane Madison wasn't just a grandmother. She was a mother of one of the most notorious killers in Cleveland's history. Her son, Michael Madison, grew up in that same house on Chickasaw Avenue. As an adult, he returned to raise a family there with his girlfriend, Tania Plameumber. They had two children, including a disabled son. Eventually, Michael left them behind. Not before Jaylen witnessed it all, though. The growing suspicion, the arrest, the conviction of a killer, someone who had once called that house home. Conversation recorded on July 19th, 2013 at 8 54.

Hey, how you doing? Okay, just need to see y'all can send somebody over here. We can't get this one open.

We can't get a garage door open, but it's a smell. I know when the dead animal smell, I know it's garbage smell, but the fly coming out of the wall from one side of the garage, I mean, that smell so freaking strong, you could throw up. I mean, we just want to make sure ain't no body in the other side or something. I mean, it's so bad in there, man. You will throw up. It's hard to even taste the smell. So,

what's the address? 1395 Hait. What's your name? My name. What's your address, sir? Child,

what's your phone number? Uh 216 8708956. Okay. Are you done? Yeah, we out here. I'm out here now. We was waiting. Nobody come up. Yeah, we call

crazy. Okay, I'm going to say something out to you. All right. That smell in the garage. If you've never had the pleasure, it's a mixture of rotting fish, dead animal, skunk, and raw sewage. How's that lunch treating you? You're welcome. This call came in 6 years before Diane's murder. And it wasn't just the first sign of something horrific. It was the past catching up. It was a call to police from a cable company worker in this building that eventually led to the arrest of Michael Madison on murder charges. He lived there in an apartment and one employee saw flies swarming in a nearby garage.

So I went in there and when I smelled the smell, I was like, "Oh my god, we need to call the police."

East Cleveland police found the decomposing body of a female victim on Friday. They ided Madison as a suspect, arrested him at his mother's home, and began questioning. The garage wasn't behind Dian's house. It was on Hayden Avenue, near a small upstairs apartment Michael had been renting just a few miles away. Because by 2013, he wasn't living under his mother's roof anymore. And he wasn't the same cute, cuddly little boy she'd raised. He had turned cold. Michael Madison, Diane's son, was no stranger to trouble. He was quiet and withdrawn.

He's always been that way. He'd been drifting for years through dead-end jobs, short tempers, and the kind of isolation that makes neighbors nervous.

He had anger issues sometime. I would see him upset, yelling, and I just told him to calm down. And he he was okay. You know, he spoke to everybody.

When the garage door finally opened and the truth finally came spilling out, literally, it wasn't just the neighborhood that changed. It was the entire Madison household, especially his stepson, Jallen. The man he had once called stepdad would now be called something else entirely, a killer. Michael wasn't exactly a copycat, but his crimes bore chilling similarities to those of another Cleveland serial killer he reportedly admired. Anthony Soell, infamously known as the Cleveland Strangler. So was convicted in 2011 after the remains of 11 women were found at his home. Years later, Jaylen Plameumber, who lived with his stepfather, Michael in the same house, appeared to develop a disturbing interest in the same notorious figure. The coroner in Cleveland, Ohio, says six bodies found in the home of a convicted rapist were female. All were homicide victims.

Police arrested 50-year-old Anthony Soul Saturday. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Heavenly Father. I am so glad they got him because I wasn't going to rest, you know, until they did

before I had to put my fridge against the door and lock myself in before I could even go to sleep.

Just 2 years after the Cleveland Strangler was put away, Michael Madison emerged onto the crime scene. Michael was born in East Cleveland in 1977. Former classmates barely remembered him because he had no real friends. He was, I guess, what you would call forgettable. He didn't graduate from high school, but he was far from stupid. He had a lot going on in his head. But no one ever bothered to ask what that was, and he never saw a therapist. But he needed one because he hated women, specifically black women. The women who fell into his nightmare weren't prostitutes or drugged out street women. Not that they would deserve his fate. Instead, they were women with families, full lives, and plans. And for a brief, fateful moment, each of them crossed paths with Michael Madison. The first body found was 18-year-old Charelda Terry. She had just graduated from high school with plans for a good life. That summer, she worked

at an elementary school in East Cleveland, helping run youth programs and earning respect from teachers and neighbors. She was last seen alive on July 10th, 2013, leaving school after her shift, but she never made it home. They met somewhere in the previous weeks and started texting. Michael lied, saying he was 25 with no children. When they opened the garage door, thousands of flies swarmed in the putrid air. Officers moved the bags containing her remains, and a trail of decomposition fluid, left a mix of brown, gray, red, and yellow flowing like a dirty river on the concrete in front of it. It was one of the most gruesome crime scenes they'd ever laid their eyes on. She died from ligature strangulation and investigators also noted a severe vaginal laceration consistent with sexual assault while she was still alive.

Sherald's my angel. Well, everybody called her Sherel. I called her heaven. That's I call my kids I call my kids according to how they act and that's my heaven. So to me he took mine. She's a praise dancer. She's she's a holy person. She's heavy into the church and she's she's my reader, my bookworm.

It didn't take long for Michael to be arrested and brought in for questioning. But it came after a standoff at his mother's house. DNA and circumstantial evidence were strong. But during questioning, detectives hoped to get some answers as to why. Michael had the spotlight for once. He talked a lot, but not about what mattered. And he wasn't the loud bragging type. Instead, he gave metaphors quietly, parables, detached theories about the human condition. It was as if the man accused of stuffing women into trash bags thought he was there to give a philosophical lecture.

And while detectives paused for timelines and names, Michael offered riddles and speculations. And you know, this is my first time really realizing just how different walks of life are. Like when I was younger, we stayed on the west side and we stayed in Cleveland. So we go to school on the west side. You know what I'm saying? The west side school had like, you know what I'm saying? Puerto Rican, whites, you know what I'm saying? Like pretty good mix. Then we moved here and it's been pretty much just, you know, black on black for the majority of my life. I've always I you know I told myself told myself I would like to stay out in the country. You know what I'm saying?

Three four you know what I'm saying? A couple cows and sheep, you know what I'm saying? Some ram, some goat.

You going to do a ram and a goat? I just like to see the rams like I think they have like the most testosterone animal.

Really? The ram seen them going at it one time. Like what were they [ __ ] bang heads and chilling leaning up and then leaning down like the ra like the ram swagger.

Yeah, he really did just say I like the ram swagger. The conversation shifted for a minute to the day police picked him up. It was a sweltering day when police moved to arrest him on July 19th, 2013. He happened to be at his mom's house on Chickasaw and barricaded himself inside for hours. SWAT was called and the standoff ended only when officers used tear gas and broke the door down to force him out. They asked him what he was thinking at the time. If it sounds garbled, it's probably because of the cheeseburger he was eating. I really just running into my head that this was really happening. Pretty much just waiting it off the wall.

And from all the calls I got, I know it's not looking good for me. This guy's maybe the chillest killer they've ever interviewed. He went on to say that while police car sirens blared and lights flashed, while voices boomed over the megaphone yelling for him to come out, he was listening to his mother's wind chimes, smoking cigarette butts from the ashtray and thinking about his childhood.

It's always good to have friends and family. No, man. A lot of friends and family are the ones who've done, you know, the worst in life. Like, you know, like, think about it, man. Like, do you think if I really like if I really just just all out valued my mother and her opinion and how she would feel? Cuz you think I would have came out the door before that, you know what I'm saying? Before that door got hit like that, [ __ ] that door up.

Yeah. I'm saying like I'm not saying that. That's the reason that I didn't come out. But like I said, man, family and friends would be the worst. And you know, I love her mother, but you know, she me and her got to a point where I, you know, really pretty much didn't care to see her again. But, you know, during a certain time, like she was there for me. You know what I'm saying? You know, the whole thing was don't forsake your parents and move forward. Don't hold on to this, don't hold on to that. You know, we talking. I put all of that behind me. But have I really?

At several points throughout the more than 8 hours of interrogation, Michael alluded to a loveless childhood of neglect. According to him, his mother prioritized appearance and money over him. As much as detectives wanted to make him comfortable and hear about his past, they still had a job to do. And it wasn't to be a therapist for a killer. want to start at the beginning.

Tell me what I was for. Start at the beginning. Wherever you want to start. This is this is your opportunity. Tell me tell you what which [ __ ] you got me for.

Yeah. Well, I got call saying that they found the body in the garage behind the place on Hayen.

Mhm. You want to know people that call me for the same [clears throat] be around here? I thought is that where you live at? Let's answer that. Yes, that's it. That's where Michael lived. But all of a sudden, it was not really his place. His baby mama's name was on the lease and people just sort of came and went, all helping pay the bills together somehow in some sort of weird collective. You know, anybody could have been there. Anybody could have had access to that garage. Michael, I don't I don't know what you had conversation with the commander about. I was the last last six hours I've been over in your spot with uh an organization called BCI. I don't know if you know what BCI is, man.

You ever watch any of the CSI shows whenever something happens, you you leave intentionally or intentionally, you leave stuff behind,

whether it be DNA evidence, fingerprints, blood. We're giving you the opportunity to tell your side of the story, man. Okay? But please don't don't sit here and insult me. All right? I've been spending the last 7 hours processing your apartment. I know the evidence in your apartment. I know the evidence in your garage. I mean, please please do me the courtesy of of Listen, I understand that people make mistakes. I told you before, I'm not here to judge you. Please give me the courtesy of of being honest man.

All on me though. You like you said and then it's all on me like all my my place my garage my

my just me because it's rent to you. Everybody says that you live there and they rep their information is reputable because

we got people that saw you in the apartment and he argued that he was in and out of the apartment and hadn't been in the garage for weeks. The body was put in the garage less than a week before. All the detectives wanted was for him to fess up and tell them what he did. And they weren't getting anywhere. It was time to bring God into it.

Are you a God daring man? Little did they know that they had just made a massive overreach. This was the perfect opportunity for the suspect to um preach.

That's all I want. That's all I got for real. It's all I've ever really had is God.

So then you believe in right and wrong, right? But I also believe in the chest danger here on earth where you have a devil and you have died. Hell is right here on earth. Like you like you, no matter if you was a reverend, a pastor, a deacon, like you are not without sin. Like you sin, he's sin. Like no one, whether it be police, pastor, no one can tell me that it's without sin. No one can tell me that they have never committed a sin and never broken the law. Whether it be misdemeanor or felony, somebody like everybody had some [clears throat] type of skeleton in their closet and whether it be pastor or chief of police like you know throw a name on it. skeleton skeletons can be as big as the name like chief of police that his skeletons can be just as big as say Anthony so well all the way down to little girl just leaving daycare like knowing like yeah know it's a god and I know you know what I'm saying

know it's a know it's I know it's good and I know it's bad they just let him keep talking they let him drift through the vague philosophies and halfbaked sermons in his little cabessa. According to him, no one wanted to hear his story, the real story, quote unquote. Again, you'll never convince a [ __ ] they're not a genius. He was fine talking about literally everything except the murders.

So, whether So, you don't think anybody is going to listen to your story? Is that what you're saying?

Mingo. Bingo. We're here listening. I don't want to hear this. And we're the ones that are going to have communication with the prosecutor doing your job, man. Doing your job.

They all disagree with you. Like, man, I you know, hate to seem like I'm wasting your time or anything, but you know, this is like I'm like I told you earlier, I'm at the beginning line of some [ __ ] that you don't want to go through. You don't want to go through. And probably y'all probably wouldn't wish on your worst enemy that I'm at the starting line of.

Mhm. It's not like it's not like me giving you what it is you want going to make this any easier for me.

You know what I want to do? I want to do the hardest thing that a police officer ever has to do. Do you know what that is?

Go to work. No, that's easy. going out there when people are doing bad things and catching them, chasing them, fighting with them, whatever it takes. That's easy. I want to do the hardest job when I have to go to somebody and say, "I'm I'm sorry to tell you this, but your loved one is no longer with us. They're dead."

This didn't phase Michael. He just kept talking until everyone in the room was numb. It's a cool parlor trick if you can do it. Politicians are great at it. It's a shame though he didn't talk until he was numb because he would have already been there a long time ago. I'm numb. I'm truly numb. Truly numb. Truly numb. I'm not expecting to be heard. You know what I'm saying? Uh they say prepare for the worst. Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. like whatever the worst is like, you know, it's still like it's not like I'm about to go to war or I'm about to be shooting and [ __ ] and going to war. I'm about to be in front of a judge around other criminals. That's what I'm saying is, man. Like I don't I feel I feel is nothing. I feel is not a damn thing.

Like I'm sorry. It's like I said, man, this [ __ ] like this this this this world that we live in, like from generals in the army to tennis commanders, like how you think some of these wars is won, they just send somebody out on the front line knowing that these dudes ain't going to come back. They ain't even supposed to even come back.

For the record, Michael was never in the military. He was just pulling out all the stops to make his case, even by stealing valor. Even though he hadn't admitted to anything yet, he knew they had him. So, he would just hint at the motive, which was, "I was neglected. Nobody ever listened to me. My baby mama nags me all the time because I don't have a job. W She makes me feel less than a man. Women all want one thing. W. Holy [ __ ] What an insufferable [ __ ]

I hope this serves as a way for these females to stop trying to [ __ ] guys over. You know what I'm saying?

Is that what they [ __ ] you over? Oh, I mean, other than the regular, no, not necessarily, but it's going it's going to serve at some point. [ __ ] going to change. It's going to be some type of shake up.

Is that what this is all about? I don't know. I just don't know what this about. I don't know what I don't know, but you know, good percentage of us running the show for real. Then out of the blue, probably because they were so numb from the talking, the cops flipped the switch and asked him point blank.

First time you ever killed anybody? The first time? Was that like a trick question?

No. Why is it a trick question? No, I ain't never killed nobody. Killed me a couple bugs or something.

Is this the first time you ever killed somebody? I ain't not killed nobody. But that was a lie. In an obscured part of the interview that's barely audible, unfortunately, he admits to strangling one of the women. He was annoyed that she wouldn't leave and felt like she was trying to take advantage of him in some way. He was drunk and all he remembered was putting his hands around her neck. He never said she died, but he never said her name. Later, he claimed he found a body in a garbage bag and carried it down to the garage, but he never put it in there. It was a mirage of pieces. But the pieces corroborated the evidence, and it didn't take a genius to fill in the missing pieces.

You could beat a man right now. Let's do it, Mike. I know. I know you got power now. What do you think I mean, Mike?

I don't know. You're not really being clear with it. You kind of You know what we found yesterday, right? Think about what I found today. Mike, what were you talking about yesterday? You said they're going to learn. We're going to teach. They deserve it.

Oh, just talk about the saddle. That's delirious. No, I'm like, you learn. And I was sitting there trying to put it all together. And after you we took you back downstairs yesterday, Sergeant Ruth and I and Sergeant Gardner, we sat down in my office and we talked for a long time. And we just were trying to figure out what you were trying to tell us. And I and Sergeant Ruth know now what exactly what you were saying, bro. Like I know now. We jumped right in. Mike, we found it. I found out you're you're the man. You are bullshitting.

Yo, how y'all not y'all talking to me, but you're not really telling me what you like. What is you saying? I got I got I got another body. I thought you were kind of blowing smoke up my ass yesterday. Me and Gardner and Ruth were talking about it and I thought you were blowing smoke up my ass yesterday. I said, I don't know. I said way I think I think he's telling me just by his body language, just by his demeanor, some of the things he was saying, you say you're talking out of side of your mouth, I think that that was that was you want to tell your story and I'm giving you an opportunity now to do it. And I'm telling you, I believe you now. I kind of half ass believed you yesterday and I'm believing you 100% now. So you ain't we ain't even one body. We talking about something totally different now.

Whichever one you want to talk about, like it ain't one, it ain't two. Let's do this all the way, bro.

Michael barely flinched. He had admitted to having dates to his apartment and getting so shitfaced that he didn't remember them leaving. He confessed to putting his hands around one of the women's necks and awakening to find a body in a garbage bag. That's bad. But even now, when confronted with more evidence and yet another body, he deflected. The detectives were running out of patience. And now, they didn't just want to know why he killed. They wanted to know how many more dead women would be found and where they were located.

when they found the first body in East Cleveland in 2013. 13. It was a trash bag in a garage. The neighbors had smelled something. By the time the police arrived, the case was already strange. The suspect, Michael Madison, was calm. He denied everything and admitted only enough to seem helpful. One woman, he said, was dead, but he hadn't killed her. He found her in a bag. He just moved her. That's all he claimed. But the evidence was there. They still didn't have a clear motive, though, only a suspect who talked in metaphors and acted like a victim all the time. This victim was also a father of two and a stepfather to one quiet teenager named Jallen, who years later would erupt into his own kind of violence in the same house on Chickasaw Avenue. The violence from both men was directed only at women. the women who raised Michael and her grandson Jallen and three other innocent women who just

happened to cross the wrong path. Mike, you got the power. Obviously, she disrespected you. Obviously, she put you into that position. Something happened, bro. She made you have to show her. And now all I want you to do is just show me. We'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. You want to talk about the most recent one first, or you want to talk about another one? Whatever one you want, bro.

In this tiny blue interrogation room that resembled a prison cell, detectives and Michael sat for hours on end, eating cheeseburgers from McDonald's as the questions came one after another. While the barred window raised, Michael smoked black and mild cigars. the smoke mixing with the scent of sweat and making its way out the window to the sweltering streets of Cleveland. They were finally coming to understand this killer. And I guess even before here just you know pretty much no one like them at 35 with no real background in school and no career no 401k kids a baby mama that's bought as evil as they come. You know I'm a real like I'm a real compassionate dude when it come to certain things.

What kind of things? just you know people people but somewhere along the way I just lost like I love like I like I love female but a man a man's a man's a man's manhood should never be compromised when it comes to a female who's never been a man

it was a simple but disturbing statement in that one sentence Michael revealed revealed a cracked mirror of identity, pride, and resentment against women. In 2025, especially, it's not unusual to hear the voices of frustration from men who feel diminished in relationships and society at large. Still, his words, though wrapped in philosophical language, revealed a specific grievance. This was a man whose sense of self had been shaped and maybe shattered by the women around him. Still, nothing could justify the brutality that followed. He never offered a formal confession, not in so many words. But he did give what experts call a functional confession.

That's when a suspect doesn't technically admit guilt, but their behavior shows it. They lead police to evidence only the killer would know. They describe crime scenes in detail. They help close the loop. Think of Ted Bundy, who helped investigators find remains even years after denying some of his murders, or Israel Keys, who mapped out the burial site of one of his victims despite refusing to name all of his crimes. It's not in what they say, it's in what they do. Michael finally took detectives to the bodies. The first was Charerela Terry, the body found in the garage. The young girl just starting her life. Next was 28-year-old Chhatisha Sheiley, who had a daughter. Her body was discovered in a brush pile near the garage behind Michael's apartment. It was bound in layers of heavy trash bags, the same method used for the other victims.

Forensic examination was limited due to decomposition, but there were signs of trauma and possible strangulation. Shhatisha had bruises on her face and her clothing had liature marks. Last to be found was 38-year-old Angela Deskkins. She was discovered days after the first body in a musty basement of an abandoned house near Michael's apartment. Angela was a quiet woman with a soft voice trying to piece her life back together. She had once worked as a hairdresser, someone who brought beauty to others, but she struggled to get by and pull her own life together.

Someone introduced her to Michael. He seemed somewhat safe enough and had a calm personality. That was all it took.

June 7th, they tell us that's when they last saw Angela. And since then, they say they have been frantically searching for her. But this week, police confirmed their worst fear that cops had found her body, that 38-year-old's body. Investigators right now aren't saying how she died. had cops discovered her remains in a backyard Saturday near Shaw Avenue. Now, new this morning, a statement from the family. Quote, "Angela Daskkins was a beautiful, sweet, kind-hearted woman. She was raised in Novelty, Ohio, by her father, Robert Atkins, and her stepmother mother, Linda Daskkins. Everyone who knew her loved her. She was a wonderful daughter, sister, and aunt who truly cared about her family and friends. She is loved so much and will be missed by everyone who knew her.

In the days after Michael's arrest, neighbors were quick to share their memories, not about him, but about his mother, Diane Madison, and what she'd been through. Everyone spoke highly of her.

I want her to be remembered as someone who cared deeply for her children, someone who cared passionately about her community.

She was just fine person. I'm a better person for have known her. Michael loved his mother. He admitted this openly, but he also alluded to neglect. What he didn't do in the interrogation was throw her under the bus. But the defense did that for him at the trial. The trial formally started in April of 2016. By early May, Madison had been convicted on all counts. three counts of aggravated murder, three counts of kidnapping, three counts of gross abuse of a corpse, three counts of rape, and one count of possession of criminal tools.

The following week, the court turned to mitigation evidence, opening the door for a glimpse into Michael's upbringing. Underneath the calm exterior of the woman next door, the community activist and loving mother and grandmother, the defense painted an entirely different portrait. They described Diane as cruel, neglectful, and violently abusive. Michael's attorneys revealed years of torment that started in childhood, documented by an expert clinical psychologist who evaluated Michael and examined his records. They said Diane beat him regularly, locked him in closets, and even forced him to eat feces.

It didn't stop there. The defense told the court he was also sexually abused and emotionally abandoned. They argued that Dian's abuse left scars so deep that they helped shape the monster he would later become. During the victim impact statement given by Chareralda's father, chaos broke out in the courtroom when for some reason he stopped mid-sentence and lunged across tables towards Michael. He started attacking him and had to be pulled off. His sister later clarified what happened at that moment. During the sentencing, you have the families there and they're pouring out their hearts and saying how they're going to miss their families and what their families meant to him. And he's sitting over there smiling,

which caused my brother to launch at him. You to him he heard, "Fuck the do, excuse me,

that's okay. The life of my daughter, the life of my niece, the life of our baby whom we called heaven."

Okay. So it it was horrible to be that close to have to breathe his air to be in the same room with a person that is so horrible and don't even care. He don't care. He was he was laughing when she gave him the death penalty. You heard it. At the end of the trial, no mitigating circumstances were going to stand in the way of justice. Michael Madison has now spent nearly a decade on Ohio's death row. He was sentenced on June 2nd. 2016 and was scheduled to die by lethal injection on May 20th, 2021. But an unofficial moratorum on executions has stalled all lethal injections in Ohio since 2020.

Want to know why? Well, they're waiting for an alternative execution method in place of lethal injection. You see, they they can't get their hands on the right drugs to make the deadly cocktail. They can put dogs and cats to sleep all day long. All the strays, put them all to sleep in a humane way, we're told. But they can't get the cocktail right for humans. Isn't that strange? It's almost as if they don't want to and are just hiding behind some [ __ ] regulation in order to not do it despite what the populace might have voted for already. Doesn't sound very democratic, does it? Anyway, for now, this [ __ ] is still alive as the system that condemned him sits frozen in time, almost by design.

I am struck by the sheer inhumanity of what one human being can do to not one but three human beings. It is incomprehensible. You cajjol, lured and deceased Sheiley, Angela Deskkins, and Charerel Terry to your apartment for your depraved purposes. You went on to abuse the corpses of these three victims. You stripped them from the waist down. You folded them in half, binding them so that their feet were up by their ears. You wrapped them in multiple layers of trash bags. and you discarded them.

This killer didn't just kill out of nowhere. His crimes were monstrous, but they happened after unresolved festering thoughts from a long and tangled legacy of suffering. Then you add the alcohol and possibly drugs and poof, you get a sort and scale episode. Lucky you. Decades later, in a cramped Cleveland apartment, a young Michael was beaten, locked in closets, humiliated, and allegedly forced to eat feces by the very person who was supposed to protect him, his mother, Diane Madison, a woman the public celebrated after her death.

Later, he was allegedly sexually abused by one of her boyfriends. Michael felt emotionally discarded and shoved through the cracks of a system that barely noticed he was falling. Then came Tia Plameumber, the mother of his child, who, according to Michael, belittled him and called him less than a man. A man's manhood, he said, should never be compromised by a female who's never been a man. That quote may sound absurd on the surface, but beneath it lies a cold bit of truth. one that points to a deeper identity crisis, especially among men raised in trauma by women who are in trauma themselves.

It's a warp belief born [snorts] in pain and shaped by powerlessness. It's an endless loop I don't know how the [ __ ] we get out of. Do you have any ideas? And then came Jallen, Dian's grandson, the quiet boy who watched all of this unfold. who once lived under the same roof as Michael. In 2019, Jallen, just 18 years old, would creep into Diane Madison's home and stab her to death in her own bed. He didn't just kill her, he nearly decapitated her. He pleaded guilty in 2021 and is serving a life sentence with eligibility for parole in 30 years.

his brother, sister, cousin, and sad little dog all survived the incident and remained in the care of their mother, Tania Plumber. So, here is the question. Did Jallen inherit the same demons that haunted Michael? Was this demonic possession some sort of poltergeist in this house of horror? Or do we accept a more rational explanation? Did Jallen learn violence by watching his uncle in and out of his life, bringing stories of abuse and death with him? Did Diane really change into the person neighbors claimed? Or did the darkness inside that house simply go unnoticed until it exploded again? Did the systems America has in place fail both of these men? Or did society simply stop asking the hard questions and stop doing the hard things once the bodies were found?

In the end, does it all really matter anyway? It should. We all have this feeling in the back of our mind that it should. We should do better at raising all of our children. We should have a safer and happier and more mentally sound civilization. It started with the allegations of abuse at the hands of one woman. Two men carried it forward and three innocent women in addition to Diane herself paid the ultimate price. Not one of them deserved to die.

That's going to do it this week. Thank you for joining us. I invite you to go check out our latest episode of Sword and Scale Television entitled Home. Easily one of the most [ __ ] up things you'll ever see. I promise. Wow.

Heat.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Episode 338"?

Mike Boudet (Host), Jaylen Plumber (Guest), Diane Madison (Guest), Tania Plameumber (Guest).

What is "Episode 338" about?

This content explores a true crime narrative set in East Cleveland during the summer solstice of 2019, emphasizing the stark contrasts of its neighborhoods while grappling with themes of masculinity and societal expectations amid unsettling events. The narrative suggests a deeper examination of the human experience, hinting at darkness underlying seemingly ordinary surroundings.

What is mentioned in this Sword and Scale episode?

8 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Diane Madison, Jaylen Plumber, Michael Madison, Tania Plameumber, Ohio, Charerela Terry. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Episode 338"?

The episode runs 1 h 8 min; the transcript is about 9,900 words in 178 timestamped sections.

More from Sword and Scale

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 8, 2026.