Transcript

Ep102 Tuia'ana Scanlan

From The Big Picture · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 19 min · 13,859 words · 90 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Ep102 Tuia'ana Scanlan", an episode of The Big Picture published April 6, 2025 (1 h 19 min, about 13,859 words). It mentions 16 people, works and ideas, including Hunger Games 2, IATSI, Brian Wallace, Tui Scanland, Godzilla.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Brian Wallace, Godzilla, Hunger Games 2, Jumanji
  2. – 20:00: Hunger Games 2
  3. – 50:00: Chapman, Tori Tukafu
  4. – 1:00:00: Hawaii Media Inc.
  5. – 1:18:46: Gerard Elmore, IATSI665

Notable quotes from "Ep102 Tuia'ana Scanlan"

  • International trustee, and he's also a killer grip. He's worked on things like Hunger Games 2, Godzilla, Jurassic World, Jumanji, The Wrong Missy, Magnum PI, Lost. I hope you…
    about Hunger Games 2 · at
  • You need a whole team. but yeah, Showdown in Chinatown, bro. The throwback the way back. Tori Tukafu, the OG camera operator. Shout out to Tori, bro. I miss that guy. He was a huge supporter. He put it on I think a couple times, but it was.
    about Tori Tukafu · at
  • After college I just got like jumped into the game. Wait, what school you went? Chapman. I went to Chapman. Oh, okay. Yeah. Chapman theater. Woo. but then I went I was talking high school.
    about Chapman · at
  • Industry here have cut their teeth and grown significantly because they worked at Hawaii Media Inc. HMI, baby. HMI. I love those guys. HMI has been a breeding ground for some…
    about Hawaii Media Inc. · at
  • You get up to like the 50, like you're into short film territory, right? You should call Gerard Elmore. Like he's he's the dude for short films here. Oh, really? Yeah. The guy's amazing.
    about Gerard Elmore · at
  • An in interest in our industry our union IATSI665 we have a website right absolutely yeah iats65.org can go on there and see information if you interested in being a referral. Are we taking referrals at the.
    about IATSI665 · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Brian Wallace — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Industry, its inspirations, its challenges, and the sharing of resources. I'm Brian Wallace, and today we're going to be talking to Tui Scanland. He's the IATSI local 665 president, and he's a IATI's international trustee, and he's also a.
  • Tui Scanland — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Challenges, and the sharing of resources. I'm Brian Wallace, and today we're going to be talking to Tui Scanland. He's the IATSI local 665 president, and he's a IATI's…
  • Tori Tukafu — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Gerard Elmore — Person · 1 mention · first at

Books & papers

  • Hunger Games 2 — Book · 2 mentions · first at
  • Godzilla — Book · 1 mention · first at
    International trustee, and he's also a killer grip. He's worked on things like Hunger Games 2, Godzilla, Jurassic World, Jumanji, The Wrong Missy, Magnum PI, Lost. I hope you…
  • Jurassic World — Book · 1 mention · first at
    International trustee, and he's also a killer grip. He's worked on things like Hunger Games 2, Godzilla, Jurassic World, Jumanji, The Wrong Missy, Magnum PI, Lost. I hope you…
  • Jumanji — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Killer grip. He's worked on things like Hunger Games 2, Godzilla, Jurassic World, Jumanji, The Wrong Missy, Magnum PI, Lost. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for…
  • Magnum PI — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Killer grip. He's worked on things like Hunger Games 2, Godzilla, Jurassic World, Jumanji, The Wrong Missy, Magnum PI, Lost. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for…
  • Hawaii 5-0 — Book · 1 mention
  • Lost — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome to the Big Picture Podcast, where we talk about Hawaii's film industry, its inspirations, its challenges, and the sharing of resources. I'm Brian Wallace, and today we're going to be talking to Tui Scanland. He's the IATSI local 665 president, and he's a IATI's international trustee, and he's also a killer grip. He's worked on things like Hunger Games 2, Godzilla, Jurassic World, Jumanji, The Wrong Missy, Magnum PI, Lost. I hope you enjoyed this

conversation. Thank you for coming over here and spending time and talking with me. Um, I'm honored that you invited me, man. I'm so excited, dude. Bro, you're one of the most knowledgeable guys. um to me uh in our union, in our in our industry, in our community. Um I knew you forever, bro. We go way Yeah, man. We go way back. Yeah. Like this. Way back, dude. Um and and the reason why I kind of wanted to start talking about this, like being, you know, attending our union meetings and kind of understanding kind of what we've been working for, fighting for cuz cuz to be honest, we've been struggling out here.

Yep. You know, our industry is um a tough industry to make a living in. Um it's feast or famine. Like I grew up in the industry, you know, Pops. Dave Wallace, shout out Pops. Um you know, 40some years in the union, he just retired. Thank God. No, but uh you know, I I lived through like some some some months were eating steak, where, you know, living the life, and then some months is like food stamp, you know, it's it's feast or famine. And um I I've been fortunate since I started 15 16 years ago to get a great run like loss Hoy 50 Magnum like so I haven't really experienced that. Um and you know that's that's just been a blessing. But moving forward I think our industry as a whole has taken a hit. we're kind of we're kind of navigating these new digital ages. Y and at the same time, Hawaii is taking a hit as far as um maybe the support that we're getting to facilitate uh having a growing

industry here. Yeah. You know, so um you're kind of at the the front lines of that um as the president. You want to kind of you know explain kind of the duties of a president of of that IATI Union? Yeah. So there there are defined duties and then there are also implied duties. Yeah. Yeah. And things that you know somebody's got to do them. And if they're if it's going to be if you're going to be the leader of a local union chapter Yeah. then there are things that you just got to do, right? Like even now it's still weird to be in front of a microphone and on camera as part of the job because for so many years it was if you see a camera pointing at you or a microphone in your face, you're in the wrong place. Not good, right? Get out of the way. That we as grips, you know, like they say grips and electricians are masters of shadow and masters of light and that we uplift others into the light

and work in the shadows. so that they may bask in that light. Yeah. And oftentimes before the era of the the cut scene after the credits. Yeah. Nobody stayed for the credits, right? Nobody even bothered. My dad did. Yeah. I I have We do. Yeah. And now I do. I used to be like, "What? What are we doing here?" Now I'm like, "Babe, just wait. We got to watch. I think I know." So you can see like, "Hey, hey, I worked with that guy." Right. Exactly. Just to, you know, like it's the uh we were here. like we did this, you know, this was not this canned performance. And so I come from the the background of theater and and poetry and uh spoken word and stuff and worked a lot in this venue in this arena.

And you know, theater is also uh and live events, they're also very much so a collaborative event. There's so many people that have a hand in it, but you can see it in real time, right? You see it happening as you're standing in the audience and the laser light show goes up or the pyrochnics go off or whatever. You can see that there are guitar techs running in to change a string or a drum tech that's going in to repair the symbol. Right. On film and TV, it's not like that. We see the canned performance. You get the same performance over and over again. No matter how many times you reream the rerun, we may pick up on new things and see new nuance to what we're watching.

But live events always changed so significantly between one performance to the next it felt like at first like I was invisible in the game that I was just there. Like I'll never forget my first I worked a lot in rock and roll. worked a lot in like trade show and events and stuff and then I cuz our union does all just to clarify like our union does all of the craft. We are a true mixed local, right? So we do live events, trade show and conventions. We do we cover technicians and artisans and allied crafts in uh motion picture and television. So you really had to be I had to learn how to be a like a multifaceted worker, a Swiss Army knife, a leatherman if you will. But it felt very invisible. And I'll never forget the first gig where I was reading through the contract, the start paperwork. Right. And you read through that? Yeah. And then Tommy May like yelled at me. He was like, "Don't read

it. Just sign it." And I was like, "God, what have I done with my life?" Well, then came up in the game to become eventually, you know, on the on the executive board and then vice president and now president. And so some of the duties of the president are to run meetings uh to chair the executive board and the general membership meetings so that there is a an avenue for folks to express uh concerns or excitement about an initiative that they're taking part in. Um president you know is a co-signer of the local. So all the the money that we have to spend there are like checks and balances for the checks that are issued and signed. Um they work in coordination with the secretary treasurer. They assign uh they have full oversight of committees. So as there are ad hoc committees that are just hey we got to do something for the MLK day parade, right? Let's get people together on that plan this. Let's talk about it. Then

there are standing committees like the constitution bylaws committee, the uh the training committee, you know, things of that nature. So then it also lends itself to being if the if you're the president you know the first thing that comes to mind is that you are the the forefront the executive officer of this entity whatever entity it is. So part of that is being the forwardfacing voice of the local and speaking on behalf of the people and fighting for people who work in this industry whether or not they are members. Right? And then another part of it is legislative activism, right? Being at the ledge is absolutely was absolutely terrifying the first time that I went out there and then very quickly like being on set, you get your seal legs and you start realizing the relationship between this camp of people and that camp of people and why these people are supporting this and those people are opposing it

and going to the sausage factory is wild to see the meat grinder of it, but it's really important to be to serve the local in that capacity. So why does our state hate our industry? No, no. Um what in in your opinion, what is the view of um our union and generally our industry, the film, the television production um in in Hawaii? Like do they all hate us over there? Are they all like we don't want that here? No. No, they don't all hate us. Um, there are opposing views across a spectrum. There are certainly, I'm sure, people who absolutely cannot stand film and TV or entertainment in general, except when COVID hit, all of a sudden we're stuck at home. And what do they turn to but art? The art that we make, right? Then all of a sudden, art is not a luxury. It is a necessity. It's it's food, right? It is sustenance. Um, why though? Like why do you think there are some that that look view our industry

and is it like they don't like our attitude or like they think we're outside entity? They think it's Hollywood people coming in to I think that's part of it. That's part of it. I think one thing is there there are misconceptions and other things that I I think are blown out of proportion that are taken to the extreme. Some people see excuse me Mr. microphone is microphone. Um, I I think some people view the film tax incentive as a blank check that is given to Hollywood execs that we are just funneling money out of the state. I think some people view that as wasteful with a lack of oversight. I think some people with the whole we only hire this industry only ever hires folks from out of town, right? means like not only is it leaving the state but folks are coming here messing up our backyards and then leaving with our money right which is absolutely not the case right how how much percent of uh uh film let's

say like I don't know Hawaii 5 oh man is local people like is it 30% no no I think it's significantly higher so I did a um last year there was an info session with the economic oh man I'm going to get smashed for this one e committee senate committee and I forget what the acronym means but it's e essentially economic development energy and tourism that's what it is and they had an info session where they invited us to speak about the industry and what that address some of the concerns about hiring and whatnot and one of the things in my presentation was showing them they had asked for what does the past year's worth of hires look And I was like, we don't have we don't have two months to sit. We have two hours and I've got like 20 minutes to tell you about this. Let's just talk about one day. Thursday, February 20th, 2022 or 2023. We were looking at uh the three shows that were going. It was

Magnum. It was Rescue High Surf. There's one more NCIS. And we looked at I showed them like this is the crew list and these are just cocktail napkin numbers based on running through the crew list versus the call sheet. The names that I knew personally and the names that I knew were actually from here. The crew list is just like the the core crew as you know, right? That's every department head with their second and whoever the core crew is, right? And then the additionals that are then hired on the day's work, the litany of names that are in the back of the call sheet for anyone who doesn't know out there what a call sheet is. Yeah. It means uh the this is the homework for the day. These are the shots we're going to do today and all the people and all the stuff that's going to be needed. And I did a sideby-side comparison. It was something like like Rescue High Surf had a 94% local hireer rate and then on their

water unit the other 26 people was 100% local. NCIS had like 75% of their their core crew were locals and we're just talking about below the line the crafts that we represent. Not including like actors, directors, any of that. Just our crafts. Yeah. because that's all I could speak to them about the Senate committee. That was like 75% local hire and then on the day it was like 84% local hire on that one day of work. And then Magnum was going and it was a similar set of numbers. It was like 79% on the crew list with local hires and like 86 or 87% local hires on the day of work. Yeah. And that's all one day of work. Exactly. And if we want to talk about like how many jobs like how many people were employed versus how many jobs were created as a result of this industry. Yeah. That's another month's worth of presentations that we could break down each individual day versus the week versus the month versus the

year, right? Cuz they they always just give you like 20 minutes to to make your case. You know what I And and that's why I feel like having these conversations where it's like long form and we can actually get into it and somebody can watch it and be like, "Oh, thank God they're explaining that it's not people from the mainland. It's actual people here." Like I know, you know, everybody on the crew, a lot of them get to send their kids to private school. Absolutely. A lot of them finally get to build a home and buy a house, you know, buy a new vehicle. Exactly. And um all I mean I don't even know how we can compute like all the vendors um local vendors wherever we're shooting. Oh my god. We're buying food. Not even just food. Like I remember what was it? I think it was Kong Skull Island. I was running three different sets at a time.

So, right, the D-ring. I was rigging grip best boy, which means like for those of us at home who don't know what that is, a best boy is like the lieutenant. The key is like the captain. Yeah. You have sergeants like the dolly grip that have specialized skill sets. And then your rank and file, your E4s that you just fire and forget, right? Sling mud and steel and jump. Where are we all start? Sandbag carrier. Yeah, exactly. Carry this bit of steel up that mountain. Go. Stop asking. And then, you know, like I had to driigg one set, so like take all the stuff out that we built. Yeah. Service the members and the set that was currently being filmed and then pre-rig this the next set that they were going to go to. And then a second unit gets added. So now there are six sets that we're running with 24 people.

And each day that we're doing this, I'm spending like8 $8,000 a week on lumber at Hardware Hawaii. spending like four grand a week at Royal Medals, spending like three or four grand a week on at Plywood Hawaii, maybe every other week. Mhm. There was one set for Hunger Games, bro. I built we built like a 60ft run of stairs with a 10,000lb center load capacity, a a motorized zip line with a 16,000lb center load capacity. We built a 40ft bridge 3T above the water. It took weeks and it took dozens of people and trucks and equipment and then the producers came up and they're like, "It's beautiful. We're never going to film here all that." Yeah.

It's your money. There's like that's a quart million dollars that just got paid out in wages and in materials mostly in wages and a little bit in rentals and material. You know, I mean there's a lot of money. I mean, we talked about in our last episode, Mauricia, just dollars going, you know, into tourism, dollars going into all sorts of avenues. I mean, this is a lot of money coming in. I mean, I think in 2022, we're talking about like $750 million, you know. So, um, I think I I think I don't know if it's the general public or, you know, people at the state level that look at us, look at our industry and and think it's all outsiders or, you know, it's all, you know, Hollywood people with or like think we have some kind of attitude like we're we're better than and you know what, maybe in the past, maybe in the past there was some of that. That's Yeah, I could totally I could totally see that. You know what I

mean? But I feel like um maybe my generation is kind of you know the first um I wouldn't say the first but we're we're coming up you know with pride with with you know this as a real job and and you know the people before us struggled so much to make a living in this and grind it out and stick through it that we're we're in a position now that we're skilled skilled people that can complete the job, you know. So we we actually now are fighting for like we we can fill every position. We we actually don't need anybody now, you know, before and and again I'm not hating on on um um these skilled people who came down because if it wasn't for you know um these people we would have never learned. we would have never got the experience and all these people who have been so willing to share their knowledge how to light a set, how a camera works, all of that. Someone had to teach it for sure, you know, and so but now I feel

like we're getting to a point where we've learned uh we've had enough experience like, hey, we can actually facilitate a production on our own. Do do you feel like we're at that skill level? Are we far from from that or No, I think you know it's like like any situation there are complexities and nuance to it. I think there are it's important to honor the past and all of those folks from the continent who believed in us, invested in us like when shout out to the godfather Eddie Powell, the homie international vice president who stood up for us when a situation arose and 665 filled the call when it was local 80s jurisdiction and the in the long long ago uh they tried to grieve us to which Eddie Powell showed up and said your issue is with the employer, not with them. Why are you hurting your brother?

Right? There are folks from local 80 who have come down and showed us and when when rest his soul Donovan Auna and his brother, may he rest in peace, uh David Ahuna, when Donovan was the business representative for Local 665, his brother was the president of Local 80, the Grip Local, for those of who don't know Local 80 is, you better know. Good brothers. Good brothers. And so they built that bridge and then created a pathway for us to be paid at the same rate as grips on the continent. Right on. So they couldn't use they couldn't abuse local labor by paying them less to disincentivize the folks from coming down. Now you could pay them essentially the same thing and share that knowledge.

I think also that we are in a unique position of of gathering knowledge from outside sources because our industry is has been so transient that here comes a keygrip that comes down or a gaffer or whoever and they say this is the only way to do things. You do it every time like this. Whoever tells you otherwise is absolutely wrong. Yeah. And they're here for nine months and then they leave and then the next guy comes in. Who the hell told you to do it like that? this is the only way you do it. You do it every time like this and whoever tells you, you know, and lather, rinse, repeat. And over the years, there have been so many different influences of that nature that we've become much more well-rounded than before. And before I think there was there was the misconception that we were country bumpkins, that we were just all body like beach, right? And though we still hold on to that down home rootsy

vibe, still we have acquired a significant uh some departments more than others. Some departments more all love to all the departments. Yeah, I love the greens guys. But yeah, grips and riggers baby all day. Um because we've had such an extensive pallet of of experience offered to us. Yeah, we have access to I think more than others who are in established or have been traditionally established production zones. Mhm. They work with this keygrip all the time. They've worked with this keygrip their entire life. And so this is the only way they do things. Y and when they encounter a keygrip from elsewhere Yeah.

there's friction, right? There's there's uh difficulty. There's things that are lost in translation. They communicate with each other differently. they they uh cultivate a different type of culture on set. So I think that has aided us a lot. Yeah. And and like speaking on that on another level, I mean for better awareness I guess um we're a mix local meaning I could work as a grip one day. I could work as an electrician one day. And I think the biggest reason and this is to my understanding it's that way here in Hawaii because you got to just kind of get a job wherever wherever you can. But having said that, like I work alongside a lot of people like I've been fortunate, blessed that I came in as a grip and I've been still on this road of being a grip. You know, that's great. My dad coming up, he had to work props. You had to work electric. But guess what?

Like he got a little bit of knowledge of every little department and and so his understanding of how sets operate and films are made, he he kind of has a lot of perspective to it. So I think that's a plus. You know what I Definitely. Um, and having said that, in in the mainland, every department kind of has their own union. Like we're 65. We have all mo most of the departments. In the mainland, grips are all local 80, right? Electrics are what? 728. Yes. Electric. Yeah. And then you have, you know, props and prop makers local 44. Um, hair and makeup is 706. Costume 705. U script supervisors 491. So there's definitely a separation of duties and a clear delineation between them. And I know, you know, coming up in the game when I was young, God, it feels weird to say that, but I would go from working on Lost with you guys until like 3:00 in the morning at Police Beach and then I would jet to the convention center to

work as a rigger over there or install and dismantle. and then the next day I'd be working on a concert and then the next day I'd be on a commercial and then the next day I'd be back on Lost. So like having this well-rounded experience of all the many different facets of our industry I think can only aid and empower the people who work in it and I think that well-rounded experience is necessary. Yeah, definitely. And um you know what what who's who's kind of at the front is that you at the kind of front lines fighting um say is it production studios coming in saying oh you know we have we have our own crew we have our own people that we we want to hire. Um is it you stepping in going hey that's great but we have the same capable people locally. Um, can you can you try to use our yes and no our workforce first? Yes and no. Um, and I think this is where like the key to any type of leadership is relationship building I

think because without that it becomes very adversarial, very transactional. um building the relationships with folks over time organically. Some that are like offered in a sort of transactional way that build into a stronger bridge of relationship. Those can't be swept aside though. But building these relationships and having the call with folks for when they call up and be like, "Hey, what's the deal? How do we how do we get past this?" And I'll offer a couple of solutions. Mostly what I'm doing is I think being the forward- facing the the face like the voice to speak, right? And to to advocate in the community and to advocate legislatively.

So in the square building, educating folks to the fact that we're not just film and TV. We do all of these other things that you know and love. Yeah. Um and fighting for initiatives and then you know like uh debunking certain misconceptions about who we are. I think that's that's been my main goal recently because we haven't had a a strong presence in the square building for a long time and that was one of my main priorities when going getting into office because these are the folks the movers and shakers right these are the ones that write the laws that we then have to follow so why wouldn't we be a part of the conversation because if you're not at the table you're on the menu right yeah I mean I think um you know what what would you say is the biggest challenge um a local filmmaker or someone in our union faces on building a career here in in Hawaii because when I first started, you know,

when I first got started in this industry, I was always told like, if you ever want to be successful in this industry, you're probably going to have to go to LA. You probably have to work in the mainland at some point. And me being the local boy I am, I'm like, I guess, but I already know like leave my home. But but you know I was pretty fortunate to to have enough work here and um the future looks kind of scary. I I I think you know and I'm not talking about Hawaii is like generally film making. Yeah. Across the country. Yeah.

Across the country. So I don't want to make it all about us. Everyone is struggling you know in this industry but specifically in Hawaii like what is like would you see is the biggest challenge for us? I think for workers the biggest challenge is work availability. I think for filmmakers uh part of it is content creation and like like uh fostering and supporting that little ember of creativity into something that that people can buy into that people latch on to and connect to. I think as an industry there are a couple of things working against us and a couple so those same things that work for us. We are logistically difficult to get to, right?

So, if you're bringing a bunch of gear here, Yeah. it's going to take some time, right? You got to put it on a container ship. If you're flying it over, it's expensive. You have to source gear that you may not use all the time. If you bring your special gear here to this beautiful, wonderful place, it's going to get salt water and red dirt in it, and it's probably going to Yeah, this is where gear comes to die sometimes. People fear bringing their gear here for that reason. For sure. Getting sand in your slider is not a good idea. No. Um, and I think from a legislative standpoint, there are folks who see the industry as a waste. There there's $50 million that's allotted to our tax credit annually right now. And that as emerging situations occur, they now are looking for places to cut spending so they can pour it into something else like Lahina, right?

absolute tragedy. Yeah. Four billion dollar settlement. Yeah. The amount of time and energy and effort that it's going to take to rebuild and support that community is significant. Yeah. Because of that, the state government, which is mandated to have a balanced budget, then has to reallocate their assets to something that no one was expecting. Because of that, they start looking for programs to cut. Yeah. And all they see at face value is $50 million. Yeah. Yeah, that's $50 million right now that we can tack on to this. Now, what's the next one we can cut down? Yeah. Without looking at all the benefits that some people are diehard zealots and thinking that, you know, taxes are just a way to collect money. Taxes aren't for giving money out when that I think is an overly simplified view of things. Like taxes are the the communal kitty we pay into.

Yeah. To support our community and support the initiatives that the people want. Right. Right. that things that generate uh state income tax, things that that generate high wages and better quality of life, right? And that's what this work does. And I think or how about just keeping the culture alive? Yeah. Like like if you're not putting any money or really looking at keeping your culture alive and I I think we can do a lot of that through film making. Absolutely. through music, through concerts, you know, all the things that we we work on, like that that's what it's going to I mean, if you look at New Zealand, like they literally have a budget for their cultural media. Y you know what I mean? And and guess who's pumping out really good shows, really good shows movies. Why Why do you think they want to take, you know, a Jason Mamoa movie and and shoot it over there?

Like a lot of people, they do think it's him. Like they think it's Jason Mamoy himself, local boy going, "Nah, I gonna shoot this in New Zealand." It just doesn't math out. Like it doesn't pencil out, bro. He wants to shoot it here. It just there are there's archaic language in our film tax incentive law that prevents them from being able to shoot like it's it's only for a certain number of episodes on a network television show, not for a an 8 episode miniseries. Because of that, it doesn't qualify for certain things. And if we shift that, it would make it very easy for him or easier for that show to be here. But it's not Jason. It's a multinational corporation like Apple that's saying, "Hey, we need to make sure that there's return on investment, right? If we are investing this much money, we want to ensure that we're getting the best bang for our buck. If our film tax incentive is not competitive competitive globally,

we are not as attractive as a location as we could be. So now you get Moana shooting 98% of it in Atlanta. Yeah. Be by not by remaining uncompetitive, we are now losing the ability to tell our own stories. Competitive in the tax incentive world, right? Tax incentive world. Because all these other states have um tax incentives and and and the big dollar people are just going to look at that and say, "Hey, I'll just go here." and very experienced and cooperative uh like robust support for their film departments, right? For the the film commission or what have you, right?

Those states pump assets and allocate funds to empower that film community, the film commission, whomever is at the reigns of it. They pump money into there so they can attract more business. They see the return on investment from a mile out, right? So the the states are doing that. The states are saying, "Hey, you know what? This is actually a good investment. Let's put some money into and and so you talked about that. Who kind who kind of is um uh in the state level like you talked about the film commission. Who are these who who are the the umbrella that kind of controls u what happens or are facilitates things in the state from the state perspective?

So the ultimately the budget is created by the state legislature. Okay. Right. Senate and house bills back and forth. There there is a legislative calendar that you can download from capital.hawawaii.gov. Also for anyone that wants to participate in the conversation should register an account on capital.hawawaii.gov. It is free. You can track all the bills that affect your daily life. Um they then in that budget there fights for you know like we are very passionate about our our industry. Yeah. As is everyone who's fighting for their industry as well. 100%.

And though we we can make the case that we are generating so many more dollars than we are investing in, we are still not top dog in the state as far as industries even though we touch just about every other industry that's around you. Right. Um, and there there are battles that happen, right? And those battles then turn out to be what the budget is then given to the governor to sign. The governor has their priorities. They then send down as like memos to like governor's messages for appointments to state departments and boards, but ultimately the budget is established at the state legislature. The state department, DBED, department of uh economic development, business and tourism then has a wide umbrella over many different uh uh mechanisms and apparatuses that function around those topics of economic develop business and tourism. Okay, like hta is under their umbrella. Uh the stadium authority is

under their umbrella. Uh creative industries division is under their umbrella. Under creative industries, there's also the film commissioner, right? And then the counties have their own film commissioners. Those film offices coordinate with the state film office and then coordinate also with the incoming producers or filmmakers that come through. Yeah. What are they coordinating like? Um what locations we can permits. Permit, right? Permits. Uh uh the tax incentive like uh application that they make, right? they have to put in certain amounts of receipts and whatnot. It's also like they vet that like in order for you to get this incentive, you're going to document, you're going to bring it in through our office and we're the film commissioners are the people looking at that, making sure they're hitting those marks. Film commissioners are more like the key grip that then disseminate like they have the

plan and the vision and they disseminate that to their team, right? That happens on a county level as well. Um the the part that becomes difficult is then you're asking for this tax incentive to be applied to this taxpayer the production company. Mhm. Now it goes to Department of Taxation as well who has a different team that's looking at different things, right? And those two don't always meet eye to eye. They don't always match up. Because of that, there is some sometimes difficulty in uh a company getting their tax rebate back or not their rebate, their their credits, their credits back. Yeah.

Right. And that's can be okay for a large company like a large network studio. Mhm. But for smaller companies and independent studios that that's all the difference. That's all the difference. Like those two months mean either they are above water or they're below. Yeah. So I think I think there are ways there's so many different facets to the conversation. Like there are folks at the legislature who absolutely do not think that tax money is to be used for giving out for the public good. Yeah. There are folks who adamantly want this thing to happen. But no one in the House can tell anyone in the Senate what to do. No one in the Senate can tell anyone in the House what to do. They can barely tell each other what to do within their own chambers, right? But they come to consensus and they they find the the middle ground. Um I think there's been a lot of consideration in both chambers that have

benefited us and we have a lot of allies out there and there are a few opponents out there that we also have to bring into the fold. I never like to make it an adversarial thing, right? Because I think it's just a lack of communication or a miscommunication or a lack of information. And I think if we can just bridge those gaps, we can bring them into the fold too and have this a roundt discussion as opposed to sitting in our separate camps and then you know Yeah, exactly. Um, and that's kind of what what I kind of really wanted to sit down and talk to you about is just to kind of put the discussion topics out there and people can go discuss on with their opinions with whoever it is, but who can um if you know you you want to try to support what we're doing or our our industry, who do you reach out to? Who do I reach out to or who should who do who who are you reaching out to number one? And who can we reach out to? I

would reach out to me personally, I reach out to uh entertainment sister unions, right? Other folks that are part of the game and then other folks that are part of the organized labor movement in general. Hawaii has the highest union density per capita of any state in the US and has for many years. Nice. We are of the entire workforce, there's 24.1% of Hawaii's workforce belongs to a union. Nice. And it's huge. We're one of two states that still have higher than 20%. It's us in New York. Um whereas in some places like say Texas, there's like a for every one union member that votes in a certain way, 1.3 or 1.4 other people will vote in that same direction. Right? In Hawaii, it's more like one to five. For every one person that is a union member that advocates for a thing, they will influence five people to move in that same direction.

So, if I were someone out in the ether that is listening to this, I would go to capital.hawawaii.gov, I would uh there's a find your legislator tab. Mhm. You put in your address and it'll show you who your state senator is, who your state representative is, what county council member represents you. Um, and then also your US representative and your US senator, I believe. Don't quote me on that part, but I would reach out to them and I would look at Man, I I can't harp on it enough. Capital.hawawaii.gov is a wealth of resources, but like any toolbox, if you don't open the drawer Yeah. you're never going to know what's in there. Yeah, you'll never be able to utilize the tools are in there. And it is decked out is front to back full of resources and tools for us. One of the things is you can check out the uh committees that your legislator sits on, right? That if your legislator sits on uh what culture and the arts, right?

That's that's something to think about. And you can see like what bills are referred to which committee, right? bills are often referred to a factf finding committee and then the money committee in each chamber. The money committee in the House is the finance committee and the Senate uh Ways and Means Committee. Each one of those referrals to a committee. There's a round of testimony that's offered. You can punch in keywords to look up like film, TV, you can look up uh uh school lunches. You can look up any number of things there and you can track these bills in a section of the website on your account to see when they get referred to another committee and when they do submit testimony. So that's what I would do. And then I also like if there are any events that your state legislator, your state senator or rep holds, go to them and talk to them. Be like I value I live in the Northshore,

right? And not not me personally, but like if someone were to say, "I live in the Northshore and I while I don't like the traffic that sometimes happens from film and TV sets, I really appreciate that they spent money at my small business, right?" You know, and that carries a lot of weight for the legislator that represents you. It carries a lot more weight. I heard it from somebody that was like, you know, sometimes there are people who are really happy that you're not doing anything. Yeah. You're sitting right where you are and never say anything. Make life easy. Super easy.

Right. And then there are other people who are genuinely looking for input and really need like community voices to be to express themselves or know what's going on and where they can attack because otherwise they're flying blind. Right. They're they're going with their best intentions and their best direction of what they think be based on what they've heard. Yeah. Right. So on either camp, it's really important to be active in the legislative cycle to know who's representing you, know the issues they stand on. Look at their ballotedia.com track record of the things they've supported, the things look at their page on capital.hawawaii.gov. Yeah, you'll see the things they've introduced, the things they champion. There are ways, I think, to express your voice and your your uh your priorities as an individual citizen and for us as a hoie to express our priorities uh in a way that is constructive and collaborative and

powerful. Yeah, that's great because like thank you for those resources because even me just you know as like a grip like it I want to have my input but it's like where do I even start you know and and for you you know telling us exactly like this is where you can start this is where you can actually do something. So instead of just talking about it or grumbling about things or giving your opinion all the time, like this is something you can actually do. Do it right now. And and if you're not doing that, then all you really trying to stir stir up is a fight, you know, um dissension, you know, um separation amongst people. So I think it's important for us all of us to kind of move together like instead of you know this team is doing this these people are doing that in in general in the film making community it's like we all should be pushing at this um together because I talked about on the other podcast too

it's like we actually whether you're doing you know high production value you know CBS ABC Disney type of shows or if you're doing short films like that you're going to put in HIF or whatever. It all it all goes both ways. This like I've worked on, you know, a lot of high production stuff and um learned a lot from hours and hours of experience on on set. If one of my my friends are making a HF film, like I really can't wait to help them w with my skill set. Like I don't I can't write. I'm not a writer. I'm not um you know a storyteller like they are, but I can do all this. I can I can light. I can I can contribute. Yeah, I can contribute and and you're gonna need that and they're going to need you.

And guess what? I rather help the person making a h short film about something I care about than some other showdowns in Chinatown. Showdown in Chinatown days. Oh my god, they were the best. They were absolutely wild and insane, but they were so much fun. There's so many like so much collaborative juice coming out of those things. They're like, "Bro, we would work the full week and then take 48 hours over a weekend to film a short film and then show up wrecked to work the following day, you know, but for love of the game." And I think that kind of I think I don't think a lot of people understand the the deep commitment to this art form, to these crafts, the the sense of community that is built here, I think cuz how could you, right? If you didn't see behind the curtain, how would you know? How would you know that the circus is in town and like these folks work together really well and they work

really hard and dedicate themselves to this for years of their lives is like no one person can accomplish it. You need a whole team. Um but yeah, Showdown in Chinatown, bro. The throwback the way back. Tori Tukafu, the OG camera operator. Shout out to Tori, bro. I miss that guy. He um he was a huge um supporter. He he put it on I think a couple times, but it was basically this 40 48 hour film festival contest where we had a line and a prop you had to use. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I tell you what, they would all show up.

We would all view um what everybody put together in 48 hours. Yeah. And I would trip. I would be like, damn, this is kind of pretty good. I'm like, when did they have time to do this? You know what I mean? And uh but it goes to show you like bro people are really trying to trying to do this in Hawaii and like people trying to tell stories and there's a vibrant community here of people who love this game and it is the ultimate team sport. Totally. And I feel like it's it's coming up on our time to tell our stories. Like I I mean and I I mean no disrespect, but like how many more cowboy stuff can we do? like h how many more medical stuff we can do? How many more? But do does anybody like have ever heard of like the battles that went on in old Hawaii? Yeah, probably like you know they don't get taught that at their their schools, you know. There's some great stuff there that I think you know the world the world is ready for.

But but it all circles back around to us telling our our stories from our perspective and whether that's in camera movement, lighting, you know, like we got to tell our stories from our perspective. And the only way that we'll get the skills to do that is on work working on other projects, learning from the people who who did it before us, you know, and so um to rewind it a bit, you know, like you never going to learn how to ride a bike from watching someone else ride it. You may get some tips on how to hit the tour to France, but you're not going to learn. You learn how to ride a bike by doing it. You got to get on that thing. You got to you got to ride, man. Yeah. And and so, you know, the union, our union specifically, we have we have training that we do um within our union.

O other than that how how can somebody say if they want to join um the workforce or or the union how does somebody prepare for that what what do you have on usually your resume or do you just come and just on the job training usually it would so if it's from early school days I would say encourage your kids to do arts and crafts anything it could be crayons and play-doh you know it could folding paper airplanes, you know, start with anything and you know, giving an awareness to kids that like this is something that people do. Your favorite show, your favorite cartoon, your favorite whatever, your favorite movie, those are people that do that. Yeah. And once that awareness is is offered to them, then in say like elementary school, participate in in setting up, you know, encourage your kids to participate in setting up assemblies and doing like join the AV department. The AV nerds, I'm telling you, run the world

one day, right? And then as as they build those skills and like gravitate towards one thing or another, then in like high school, you start getting into more advanced things like whatever the news podcast is for the school or sports broadcasting or fill in the blank theater. The theater is a huge one. That's where I learned, right? And then even like Mayday, building lay and building costumes and uh you know setting people's hair, setting the stage itself, lighting the stage that then translates into someone that now has 10 years more experience than the next high school graduate, right? Because they started early. Math skills, reading skills, arts and crafts all day, every day. That those are the things I've used every day of my career. Yep. And once that happens, if they go into higher education, then there's points where you can like work in the theater. You can go and volunteer at stuff. Your friend has

some weird YouTube video they want to make on their phone. Go help them out, right? Yeah. Start there. I think kids and and folks who are new to the game have access to much cooler toys than I did growing up, you know. Absolutely. So many crazier things they can just order off Amazon. Uh video stabilizers for their phones that weren't even a thing, you know. But that's that's what I would say for for uh families who want to encourage their kids into this game. Yeah. Even if they're not encouraging into the game, say at any point in time you're a kid or a person who finds this super interesting like you know I'm talking like maybe you really enjoyed send setting up for assemblies. Maybe you really enjoyed making the costumes or doing hair. How does that translate to a real job? And where are those real jobs, right? And this is this is kind of is like, hey, if you're good in those like this is what we're doing every day,

getting paid and making something really cool, you know? So, so maybe that can kind of be an awareness too is like this is the real jobs that translate to those skills and to those passions when you're younger. And you know like I was lucky in that I worked behind the scenes and I was in the like the theater performance program and then I worked behind the scenes for my on-ampus job and then after college I just got like jumped into the game. Wait, what school you went? Chapman. I went to Chapman. Oh, okay. Yeah. Chapman theater. Woo. Uh but then I went I was talking high school.

Oh, I went to my man. Oh, that dude theater as well. Um we do all the song contest, don't we? Yeah, we do. We do song contests. That's right. And that's that's another like we'll we'll get into that in a bit. Just like the way that we amplify uh native voices through our work and through the dedication to these crafts to make sure that these these uh events are safe. But I would say how do you get into the game here? I would say follow your passion to figure out what you love doing and what you're good at doing. Sometimes those are two different things.

Um, and then when you start gravitating towards it, you know, like for someone who's into anime and comic books, you know, Comic-Con becomes a very real source of income, right? Then getting behind the scenes and like being interested in how things are hung in the air and suddenly you're, you know, you're on the path to being a rigger by just by noticing the things. Yeah. So find what you gravitate towards first and then just start looking, right? like start looking around towards there are there are live event companies, there are uh rental houses you can you can cut your teeth there. Like a lot of folks in our industry here have cut their teeth and grown significantly because they worked at Hawaii Media Inc. HMI, baby. HMI. I love those guys. HMI has been a breeding ground for some of the best technicians that we've ever had because they've been they've had hands-on access to the stuff. First, it's hold this thing.

Yeah. Right. Now, put this thing down. No, not like that. Yeah. No, not like that. Yes. Like this. And then it's it for someone who is curious, right? You have a significantly greater chance at finding success in this industry. For ones who are willing to learn, who are looking for the the break fix mentality, that is huge in our industry. Yeah. So the folks who continually ask, "But why?" Yeah. Like, "Well, how does that work?" Yeah. Well, if it works like this, why does it work like this? What's the point of this? Oh, snap. That's why you do it like that. Yeah. And if you can do it like that, then you could potentially, and that's I think the foundation of innovation in our game. Yeah. Right.

It's because someone said someone was probably filming a movie on a a Navy ship. Yeah. and saw a hydraulic missile loader that had roundy wheels and could crab. They were like, "How much weight does that thing hold? Because this camera is heavy as hell. Strap a camera to that thing." Right. How do you steer this? We'll call it a dolly. Call it a dolly. Yeah. It's It's a dolly. It's And we'll never change it for never, right? 50 years. It's the odd part about the grip world, right? Is like there's so many leaps and like advances. Leaps and bounds. Meteoric rise. Yeah. in the advancement of technology in camera and in lighting and grips still use sandbags. You know what I mean? Hey, you know what is the biggest advancement is the C47. Now we got those fancy half clips. The points maybe. If you think about it, that's kind of one of the um take you from the stone age to the bronze age, right?

Yeah. Um yeah, I think um I think but to go back to go back the the ways that you would find success in this industry, where do the jobs exist? A lot of the jobs, whether they're union or not, are looking for people who are, if they are inexperienced, are willing to ask the question. Mhm. There's nothing worse than someone pretending like they know how to do something, being hired to do it, and then finding out in the middle of the that you don't know what you're doing at all. That's so awesome you said that. I was like privileged that you you asked me to be a part of our we had a grip electric training for our union. um was super awesome, good, good people and they all came in with really good attitudes, positive attitudes and you know with the technical side of the training what everything is what they do a lot of the things that I found myself saying was more attitude you know like we we look at someone as a great worker

if you have a like anything else right it's like attitude is the biggest thing but safety is also the other biggest thing and if you're coming into work and you're saying oh I know how for dut is I can Nor and then something dangerous happens like just tell us you didn't know and and we can talk about it. We situational awareness we can tell you how to do it. Exactly. Exactly. And situational awareness um a willingness to participate. Like who was it? Lee Kaneakua. Shout out to Lee. Lee. He said something in my one of my first training courses with him. was like, "If you're going to sit back and watch me do this, my dog can do a better job at this." He didn't say it to me specifically, but he said it to somebody. And I was like, "Duly noted, man." So, like, jump in and be a part of the game. And I think it's cart before the horse to say, "Where are the jobs?" Yeah. There's there's foundational skill sets that need to be

developed over the course of a wide range of experiences. Mhm. Like running around with your friend and their iPhone camera stabilizer and like doing a skateboard video, right? Or being a a reggae house DJ at parties for a little bit. Gaining the life experience. Those technical skill sets lend themselves very well to our world. 100%. But then the mindset is something that almost cannot be trained. It's something that one needs to personally cultivate within themselves. Yes. Situational awareness, timeliness. Yeah, cuz like if you're 10 if you're not 10 minutes early, you late, right? A willingness to deal with uh varied and sometimes chaotic personalities. Yeah. And big egos. Oh yes. Right. And having a good attitude.

Like if you can do those four things, Yeah. you can one work anywhere and two you will excel in this game. But if someone shows up without those things, Yeah. They are already at a disadvantage to everyone who is hungry to be a part of this, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. My my girlfriend is, "Am I supposed to read your mind?" It's like, I guess, but that's like I'm always reading my my key grips mind. I'm always reading. Yeah. It's hard to turn off. It's kind of like It's hard to turn off to flip the switch back. And then like even at home like being raised by a grip, it's like I don't know the way I change the trash bag in my trash can. Oh my god. I can only imagine. Totally different from how normal people do. For sure. The attention. You take out the trash. You put it back in. This is how it goes. You put it here for the next person. Release the air here and make sure there's another spare on the side because

there's that kind of uh there's anticipation of the next thing because I think also we have we form these tight bonds not only because we spent so much time together, but if we're being honest, we trauma bond a little bit cuz it's so wild. Yes. to like stand in the rain on for like 16 hours, you know? Like at one point we were we like power down two smokes, shotgun a monster, jump into the van, and then run in the jungle for hours on end through the night, right? Like you tend to go feral and then go home and have to be around like normal human beings and stuff. Like I would I would wolf down my food when I was on set. I'd go home and on the weekend I would like just inhale my breakfast. Yeah. And my wife would be like, "Do you have to get back to the truck?"

Sorry, baby. I mean, I didn't She's like, "Was it at least tasty?" Yeah. Yeah. Yes, it was. I'm sorry. I won't do it again. Oh, I still make call sheets for the weekend. Like, it's mental. Yeah. And everyone around me should know the call sheet that I've made mentally, but nobody does. But I'm still running as we got to leave this um to make this. We got to make our schedule. We got to hit our marks. So, if we're going to do this, then it means that we have to be prepped with this and the car needs to be loaded with that and that has to happen an hour before this. And so, I'm going to wake up at 4:00 in the morning.

Exactly. Which drives my wife nuts, right? Cuz she's not like it's not fair to dump that on my family, right? But it's but like that is that is an important aspect of this game is that when we're gain we've gained so much momentum at staying at this high intense pace throughout the entirety of this show that then in re-entry to the real world the spin like suddenly stops and we like the exit velocity from that storm some people burn up. Yeah. You know and it's sad and it's tragic and it's hard to watch but it happens. Yeah. And it's really important that folks have that they build a strong foundation and a base for themselves so that they can touch grass and slow down. Yeah. Cuz for the longest time after after a gig like my mind would be flying. Yeah. And and I mean I think that that that culture in our industry is changing. Like it's not like how it used to be. And I think I think you know that's what the unions

are created for, right? Yeah. It was like these productions coming in, they have a budget, they have so much that they got to get done. And really, they could care less about your sleep. They could care less about your conditions. And so the union has to come in and say, "Hey, listen, like we're going to need a break. We're going to need food. We're going to People need rest. People need to eat, right? You can't call us back after 5 hours of being off and work again. Like we need at least 10 hour. What is it? Nine now. Nine hours. Yeah.

Nine. We fought for those nine. Yeah. But um so 10 for some. I mean that's the importance of being in a union, right? I mean what what do you think is the most important part about joining a union um in in in this culture? I think the whole reason that people are in a union, especially in like Hawaii has a very unique place in labor history that the plantations that were here in in every sense of the word abused and belittled and were demeaning to all of their workers. And the reason why we have our economic our ethnic diversity here is because they would import new workers as one racial group would say no more. And once the Hawaiians said that, they're like, "Fine, we'll bring in Chinese workers." Right? And when the Chinese workers said, "No more," they're like, "Fine, we'll bring in Puerto Rican workers." And each and down the line, right? Forget the Filipinos, bro. the Filipino workers when they showed up by

the like ILU was in in uh the organizing drive. Yeah. And there was a point where they had union cards by the time they got off the boat because an ILU now IL organizer was there on the boat and talked to everybody on the trip over here. So like unions were crafted. The whole point of it is that any individual worker, if you work at a fast food joint, like a national chain restaurant, you can be fired on the spot for nothing, right? There are certain safety conditions that are sort of guidelines and suggestions, but if nobody reports it, nothing's going to change. And if you report it, there's a problem, right? You could be fired for that. Your wage is not changing. Like this is how much you get paid. These are the how many these are the terms of your employment and that's it. Right. And the whole point of being in a union is for us to get together and say, "Wait a minute. I'm worth more than that." Yeah. And so are

they. Right. And I deserve to have medical coverage for my family. And so do they. We all do. We all do this same thing. So now all of a sudden instead of just corporate organizations dictating to the workers what the terms of employment will be, labor organizations then get together and get to combat that. Where folks are trying to roll back protections for workers because they can make more money from it. Labor organizations are in place to protect workers across the board. Whether you belong to our union or whether you belong to a union or not, a rising tide lifts all ships. And it's labor unions that fought for a bunch of things we take for granted today, like the weekend, the idea of a 40hour work week, child labor laws, overtime, right? All of these things were paid for in blood along with the safety regulations. some OSHA or some like safety instructor had said he was talking about how a company

like you cannot uh store hazardous materials in crew quarters. Mhm. And somebody laughed and he put down the pen and he turned around he said all your safety regulations are written in blood. Every single one. Because if they could get away with it they would. But people started dying. Right. Like the Radium girls. The Radium girls used to when radium was discovered as this beautiful glow-in-the-dark iridescent illuminated like numbers on a clock right on your watch or on a big clock. Yeah. And they would say instruct their workers who are mostly women, lick the tip of your brush and then paint it because it'll give you a fine tip on your brush. It'll make the lines and the edges so much nicer. Only to find out that it's incredibly toxic.

Oh gosh. And most of those women passed away slowly and terribly over time. And these are the types of things that large corporations will do to any worker. Right. Right. Because it will make them more money. And until someone says something causes a big enough stink about it, none of those things change. But labor organizations have been at the forefront of fighting for safer workplaces, better conditions, benefits, time off, and better wages. What is uh some example that you would give or things you might see on a union uh film shoot uh production shoe, union thing and a non-union uh production? What what what have you kind of seen in your experience? Oh man. Yeah. uh like if I was working at what can I experience if I worked for a a union um certified production or if you're working on a union show under a union agreement uh for a signatory employer, right? like they've signed the contract, the

agreement. You would ex I would expect to see uh an hourly wage that's set, uh defined terms for when overtime kicks in, defined rest periods, uh meal breaks, um safety officers that are around sometimes set medics. Right. Right. And then on non-union film shows, you know, there have been on Facebook and other social media sites, I've seen filmmakers advertise, if you pay us $100 a day, we will give you the honor of working on our show, right? Or we'll pay you an exposure, right? Or they're like, we'll pay you $200 a day and like the day is like 20 hours, you know? So that you will work until you drop, right?

Right. I was I've seen I mean the horrors how how do you go into it there there are no safeguards for you as a worker like you do as you're told. It's all buddy buddy and friendly before the thing starts and as soon as it starts they treat you like dirt. Right. But is it is it hard for say some some local guy wants to make a short film you know and he he tries to pull together his buddies or whoever he can because his resources are like very minimal. Um but he wants to make this short film talking about where he grew up or the stories that he has. Does does that local producer need to hire um union or should they reach out to you and say, "Hey, bro, I have like $5,000. Do I have to hire union people or there are ultra lowbudget contracts, but do you have to?" No. And I think it really depends on the scale that you're going for, right? And if it's if it's just a short film and whatnot, you know,

then to save money, a lot of forethought and planning needs to go into place, that assets and money will buy you a lot of leeway to just be like, I feel like doing it like this today, right? Which you can if you can bury all of your problems in cash, right? Right. That can be done. That's also a foolish way of doing it and a waste of money. But for someone that's doing a local vid, you know, like on I grew up around here, it takes a lot of forethought of planning out the story, of writing out like the the shot list, right? And storyboarding it for yourself and really truly down to the minute detail, envisioning how this is going to look and finding out like how to make it work. And I think that part of the the creative process is very important for anyone that's in the game, but especially for someone who's trying to create content. I I guess my question is more like um what is if you're if you

have a production you're producing something um what is the benefit of making a or what is the decision process in going hey I want to hire union um because they they seem to be more skilled they're safer to work with they know what they're doing but I can't afford it so I I'm going to have to go non-union um only for the simple fact like I'm taking the risk quit, you know, the skill level and all that, but this is all I I can afford, you know, how does that producer make that kind of decision or, you know, it I mean really it is based on the budget, right? Like the agreement level there's low budget, there's ultra low budgets and then at some point it's more of uh like a community project or student film. I think one of the assets I would reach out to is Ole. I think one of the, you know, like reaching out to filmmakers or film technicians or artists within your community and asking them just for help

and advice on something. But there's where the where the forethought and the planning come into play. If it's just, you know, I want to film this area today, right? But you don't have any permits and you you're just kind of running and gunning and going rogue, right? That can become very complex very fast if you haven't taken into account what the traffic looks like for the day or what the weather's going to look like or where the nearest hospital is or how much fuel you have or how you're going to rig your camera or how much footage you can capture on your camera, what resolution your camera is. Like all of those many things, how does someone who has a a a passion project put it on? It's all through the planning. It's all through the forethought. Agenda versus strategy, right? Agenda are the things that we want to accomplish. We're very passionate about we if near and dear to our hearts. Strategy is that very

clinical dispassionate. How are we going to do this? If if we can't do it like this, cut off the leg, right? It's very straightforward. And I think differentiating the two in the planning process is very important. Right? I have this thing I want to create. I have this much money to do it. It will mean becoming very creative with your assets, right? Where you can allocate money to. Can you pay your buddy $500 for today to be the ANR guy? Can you hire your friend for $300 to be the cameraman or can you just do that? Right. Right. Do you really need an overhead light? Right. Do you need studio lighting? Do you need uh sound equipment? You know, like all of these things play a factor into how to accomplish this. But I think that is that is the most the greatest opportunity to find like your creativity in this game is when you have limited assets how to accomplish this task in the most creative way possible. I think

that's that starts the process. But how do you do it? But but what I guess my my thing is like when do you like or us as a union if this ever happens I don't know like do you go knocking on doors to to productions in town right like is there is there any thing that raises a red flag to you for you to go hey you know what what is this production I'm hearing about that are maybe I don't know treating people bad or you know do you is does that ever happen where you have to go and seek out a production and say it will It will normally be if one of our members is doing somebody a solid and they're working on something for them and they call up and be like, "Hey, I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but and then the everything after the butt is the real meat and potatoes of the conversation." And that's when it's like, "This thing is horrible.

There's live electricity on the ground. I don't know what to do about this." Yeah. I'm like, "Are you working under the contract?" And you're like, "No, I'm doing my friend a solid." I'm like, "Tell that idiot to take the like turn off the live wire." Right. And then is there a point where we reach out to production companies when they are non-union? Not so much. Okay. It's more when folks come to us. And especially in my role as president, my role is more to advocate for our for our industry, for our community, for our our members, and for people who work just in general, right? That's my job. In doing so, I will address something if it needs being addressed. And it normally happens because someone calls me up and goes, "Hey, I need help." You know, but rarely is it the the like we'll go out and knock on doors unless it's an organizing effort, right? If we are trying to create an agreement or

establish an agreement with an employer, right? It is usually, I would say, 99.9% of the time, companies that have significant assets significantly larger than $5,000. Okay? We're not going to go like pick at somebody's passion project that they got two grand invested in. Yeah. You know, that's not And that's kind of kind of what I was getting at is like, you know, people um I I don't know what is their perspective of unions and union non union workers. Like sometimes I feel like people have the perspective like, oh, if we bring in union guys, like they're going to want to have this much money. They're going to want to take this many breaks. They're going to want to, you know what I mean? They're going to have want to have every safety precaution. Stupid union breaks. What do you mean? Get back to work. You know what I mean? And and I got to be honest with you, sometimes I'm in the middle of

it cuz like I'm a union guy, but I love helping people in their passion projects, right? And so, you know, and some some people got more budgets than others and some budgets kind of creep up there where you're kind of like, okay, at this point you should kind of maybe consider signing some contracts and making it legit. If you get up if you get up to the like hundred thousand realm. Yeah. That's around like the ultra low budget. Okay. Like that's that's the move, right? Okay. Even if you get up to like the 50, like you're into short film territory, right? You should call uh Gerard Elmore. Like he's he's the dude for short films here. Oh, really? Yeah. The guy's amazing.

Maurica's husband. Yeah. she was just talking about. And so what what what does that phone call do for for a producer or that gets them into like a talent pool that I think is untapped of writers, storytellers, of folks that that uh have access to gear and equipment and have like quick turnarounds on production schedules and stuff that really fosters local native talent. Um I mean Gerard the illst, shout out Garage. Um yeah, we wouldn't go when do we go knocking on doors is when either we receive uh word from a worker or workers that their employer the company that that has been employing them not like just some some dude or some some somebody that's making the down home passion project five grand when they we get reports of hey we're doing work that's like the work that you do in whatever sector, right? Live events, trade show, film and TV. We're doing this, but we're working next to one of

your guys and one of your workers is making like three times what I'm making and I'm not. Yeah. And then they're also like, we're not getting a lot of breaks. Like there's safety concerns, whatever. Once we hear that then that kickstarts a whole process of like all right let's investigate to see what is what are the company's public financial disclosures right who are their their uh stakeholders in this company where are their assets right then we start looking at like what does this production and then it's like an info and factf finding mission right because it's kind of you're just like okay they got the money to do it they're just not doing it because they care more about their profits as opposed to the conditions of the people making the, you know, as a famous big budget director once said when told that their stunt my stunt people are they're dropping like flies.

So the director yells out then bring me more flies, right? That's the mode that a lot of, you know, like it's all buddy buddy and it's all like we're all in this together until it's not. And I think there's a the union is here to represent those that work because I think there are the distinction is the separation has never been left versus right and has always been up versus down. There are those of us that work and those of us that don't. And those of us who don't work, there are those people that don't work that tell those of us who work to fight each other.

Yeah. And so long as they're do we're doing this, we will never advance our cause. Yeah. Yeah, man. Um I think we you talked about a lot of great resources that if if you're a filmmaker or if you you have an in interest in our industry um our union IATSI665 we have a website right absolutely yeah iats65.org can go on there and um see uh information if you interested in being a referral. Are we taking referrals at the moment? Yep. you can fill out a membership a referral information sheet. So, it's basically giving us like putting your your name and information in our database so that we can reach out to you in case there are things or if you get hired onto a show that we can we can help out. I remember Donovan Aluna, rest of soul, one of the first things he said to me when I got my card was, "Getting your union card doesn't guarantee you can work, but when you work, we're going to be there to help."

Right on. And that's the whole thing is that if we don't know who you are and you're working on the thing and then somewhere your paperwork gets messed up or your pay gets messed up, we don't know anything about you, we're already behind the eight-ball and like behind in the game at least two weeks. Yeah. But if we are upfront and we know each other, we can build that relationship, then we can provide greater advocacy to support you in your career and in this craft and in this art form. Uncle Donovan got me my card, too. So, shout out to him. Rest in peace. Um, man, it's been a pleasure talking with you. I I really do appreciate you taking uh your time out to talk about these topics. I hope so much fun. I hope it's not the last time, you know, we have a conversation around. We can revisit this and um kind of uh talk about topics that arise. But, uh appreciate you too, Ean.

Yeah, man. I'm not hard to find. Thank you so much for having me here. I'm honored. I appreciate you, man. Love you, brother. Love you, too, bro.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Ep102 Tuia'ana Scanlan"?

In order: 0:00 Brian Wallace, Godzilla, Hunger Games 2, Jumanji; 10:00 Hunger Games 2; 40:00 Chapman, Tori Tukafu; 50:00 Hawaii Media Inc.; 1:10:00 Gerard Elmore, IATSI665.

What is mentioned in this The Big Picture episode?

16 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Hunger Games 2, IATSI, Brian Wallace, Tui Scanland, Godzilla, Jurassic World. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Ep102 Tuia'ana Scanlan"?

The episode runs 1 h 19 min; the transcript is about 13,859 words in 90 timestamped sections.

More from The Big Picture

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 7, 2026.